Would you like to see a longer Grasscourt season? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Would you like to see a longer Grasscourt season?

JennyS
12-27-2003, 01:23 PM
Would you like to see more grasscourt events before Wimbledon?

*Ljubica*
12-27-2003, 01:39 PM
Personally no I wouldn't - because even though I live in England (just a "stone's throw" from Wimbledon) I am not a grasscourt tennis fan, and grass is definately my least favourite surface. I find it favours the big servers far too much, and too many games at Wimbledon become merely a "serving battle" which is not the kind of tennis I personally enjoy watching. I know a lot of people do love it though, so I voted to keep it as it is.

Experimentee
12-27-2003, 01:46 PM
It should be two weeks longer. Right now it is too short and puts the grass court specialists at a disadvantage.

Deboogle!.
12-27-2003, 02:59 PM
I love grasscourt tennis so yea I'd like to see it a little longer. It's too bad that those who like grass can only play like one tournament before Wimby

star
12-27-2003, 03:02 PM
Grass would be nice if there was anyone who played a real serve and volley game. I loved the Edberg - Becker duels on grass. Although I didn't like it quite so much when Becker won. :)

Edberg was poetry on grass. :)

yanchr
12-27-2003, 03:18 PM
Should be longer definitely. Not that I want to see more grass court tennis and more serve&volleyers doing a good job (sure it's one of the reasons), but at least players should be given more time to switch from clay to grass before Wimbledon. And it would raise the possibility of players doing well in both FO and Wimbledon, and even win both.

JennyS
12-27-2003, 04:19 PM
I think a 4 week leadup to Wimbledon would be much more sufficient than the 2 weeks that are currently given. If given four weeks, a player could really focus on both the French and Wimbledon.

star
12-27-2003, 04:23 PM
Borg managed just fine. :)

Leo
12-27-2003, 06:02 PM
Borg managed just fine. :)

Borg was definitely an exception. There's no one in this current generation who could ever pull off what he did - winning the French and Wimbledon back to back for so many years.

Nevertheless, I personally don't want to see a longer grass season.

undomiele
12-27-2003, 06:25 PM
"Tennis was never meant to be played on grass."
Marcelo Rios. ;)

I agree !!! Grass tennis bores me to death!!!! Besides, who outside the pros plays on grass anymore?!?!? Nobody thats for sure! Its an overrated, dying court and the ATP should just stick with 2 tournaments and thats it.

maratski
12-27-2003, 06:46 PM
There are grass courts in Holland ;)

A lot of players who come from "sunny" countries ( I don't want use the term claycourt specialists ;)) need some more time to adjust to grass since they don't play much on the surface. I wouldn't mind seeing more players do well on grass and seeing more exciting matches on the surface, but to achieve that, the grasscourt season needs to be longer. I don't mind it being one or two weeks longer.

Besides, a longer grass court season means Marat can win a Safin Slam without burning out ;)

Vass
12-27-2003, 07:26 PM
Not enough players like to play on grass to extend the grass-court season. Many hate it, actually. Maybe the hate is because they don't know how to play on it (which comes from short g-season), I don't know. Plus, how many grass specialist are there now?

It can't be shorter though, Wimby wouldn't change from grass I figure, so there has to be time to prepare.

Ilhame: How will it help the Safin Slam?

TennisLurker
12-27-2003, 07:52 PM
Henman and Popp are the only true grass court specialists I think.

I dont like grass court tennis much, I think that the season is fine, maybe I would add one week, not more.

maratski
12-27-2003, 07:59 PM
Vass, winning 28 consecutive GS matches can be exhausting so the more time in between the GS tournaments, the better ;)

maratski
12-27-2003, 08:02 PM
Tim, Roger, Popp and Andre do well on grass, but so do Nalbandian, Safin, Hewitt and Mark P. Give Ferrero, Coria and some others some time to improve their gracscourt game and you have an interesting GS in the UK ;)

Fedex
12-27-2003, 09:39 PM
I think it should be 2-3 weeks longer! Why? well its not that i love battles of Serves, its just that the seasons waaaay to short ;) I mean you only play 1 tournament on grass before Wimbledon! Plus grass is my favorite surface! If it was extended we would see more Serve-Volleyers & All Court players which are my favorite type of players! I think somewhere in their should be a Tennis Masters Series event on grass. Hopefully the ATP would consider extending the grass court season, there are 2 many TMS events played on Hardcourt(not that i dont like it, next fav. surface)

Deboogle!.
12-27-2003, 10:05 PM
I agree, it seems like there should be a TMS played on grass. There are several on the various types of hardcourt and a few (3?) on clay, one on indoor hard and one on carpet. it only seems fair to have one on grass.

Ma. Estefania
12-27-2003, 10:25 PM
My fave players don't do THAT good at grass, but I think it would be nice to watch 2 more weeks of it.

I get fun watching Queens and Halle. :)

Then why not 2 more tournaments? And then Wimbledon.

Apart....I don't like that much those clay tournaments after grass season, I know that would be sort of bad for many of my faves, but I find it sort of nonsense, just IMO.

Fedex
12-27-2003, 10:36 PM
I agree. Why should there be more clay court tournys after just playing on Wimbly! I think their should be a TMS event right before Wimbly(smaller tourneys like Queens,Halle before TMS) so that it can properly prepare players for Wimbledon! I also think maybe one other smaller grass tourney could be played after Wimbledon! Just dosnt make sense to have more clay tourneys, after Wimbledon :scratch:

Ma. Estefania
12-27-2003, 10:43 PM
Yeah, I mean....I'd think it's "ok" if there would be just like 2-3 ones, but there are so many.....you know, Stuttgart, Gstaad, Kitzbuhel, Bästad, St. Poelten (or Sopot? I always confuse these ones)

ktwtennis
12-27-2003, 10:44 PM
Maybe one week longer, but it isn't the most exciting of seasons...

On the other hand, grasscourt specialists are kind of short-changed...

TennisLurker
12-27-2003, 10:44 PM
Why not?, it is not something new, 20 years ago you had Barcelona before roland garros and kitzbuhel after Wimbledon.

TennisLurker
12-27-2003, 10:48 PM
The ranking of a player is based on their results in the 4 grand slams, the 9 mts, and their best 5 results in normal atp events.

There are so many little tournaments on clay so that a player who is a clay court specialist can get their best 5 results from normal atp events in his best surface.

Ma. Estefania
12-27-2003, 11:04 PM
Why not?, it is not something new, 20 years ago you had Barcelona before roland garros and kitzbuhel after Wimbledon.

OK, it's ok, I'm sorry....I didn't know that :rolleyes: I'm not that old and I'm just a tennis fan since about 3-4 years ago....

I was just saying my opinion about it, I don't agree with them.

I'm soooo sorry for the only clay-court specialists :rolleyes: but IMO there should be the same amount of tournaments for each surface.

tripthemighty
12-28-2003, 12:34 AM
I am partial to grass season for a number of reasons and so I have to say yes, I think it should be a little longer.

To name a couple:
I do agree there should be a TMS on grass, because that would even the playing field slightly. And while a player should be versatile and able to perform adequately on any surface, one must admit that when all the TMS are played on indoor, hard courts, and clay, it begins to place those players who tend to fare better on grass at a bit of a disadvantage.

Wimbledon does come extrememly soon after the end of clay season. Unfortunately, extending the grass season would involve moving either Roland Garros or Wimbledon, or both. And I am not certain I favor that, either. Although the two are extremely close in the calendar. And then the gap between Wimbledon and the USO seems extreme.

And then there is always the fact that I do enjoy grass season because Henman plays so well on it. Heh.

Fee
12-28-2003, 01:17 AM
Tennis was invented on grass, remember? I definitely think the grass court season should be longer, by about two weeks. It should be as long as the clay court season, which needs to be shortened to make the whole season more even. How many top ranked/seeded clay courters lost in the first round of the USO last year.

Just as clay forces hardcourters to be more patient and work their groundstrokes, grass forces players to be quicker and come in every once in a while. If the season was a little bit longer, more players would be able to adjust and the matches would get more interesting. And serve and volley tennis can be great to watch when its done by the right players.

star
12-28-2003, 01:20 AM
That's a good point, Fee.

J. Corwin
12-28-2003, 01:28 AM
I agree with Fee. I think the grasscourt season should be about two weeks longer. There should also be a TMS event on grass. Take away one of the hardcourt TMS events.

heya
12-28-2003, 02:02 AM
Add 2 grass tourneys.
Remove Gstaad and
St. Poelten- that tourney from Austria
(It's not from Poland. *It must be news to Rebecca*) ;)

Action Jackson
12-28-2003, 03:15 AM
Originally posted by heya
Remove Gstaad and St. Poelten- that tourney from Austria

Well St Pölten is the last lead up tournament to Roland Garros, and Gstaad comes after Wimbledon, and that is one of the best World Series event that has been around for a very long time, and they won't get rid of it.

Well they should shorten the season anyway, and that will take away from tournaments on all surfaces.

Personally I am not a fan of grass court tennis, which is too reliant on the serve. There was one mens Wimbledon final I think the ball was in play for about 10 minutes out of 2 and a half hours and watching two serve volleyers playing each other on grass can be as every bit boring as two moonballers on clay. It's more interesting watching 2 serve/volleyers play on clay than it is on grass, and vice versa.

That being said the grasscourt season is fine as it is, but at the most give the players an extra week before Wimbledon.

Jazzy
12-28-2003, 04:22 AM
all i need 2 no is y is a clay court tournament after wimbledon? gstaad should be a grass tournament!

heya
12-28-2003, 05:24 AM
Queen's & Wimbledon are the toughest grass events.

Gstaad is for anyone who wants to play badly.

We can only hope that the players won't be in poor form, going into November.

heya
12-28-2003, 05:26 AM
For the argumentative posters
here, that was an opinion.

Action Jackson
12-28-2003, 06:13 AM
Originally Posted by Jazzy
all i need 2 no is y is a clay court tournament after wimbledon? gstaad should be a grass tournament!

Well the original post was about tournaments before Wimbledon and not after. Why are hardcourt events before and after Wimbledon? Why are indoor events before and after Wimbledon?

Originally posted by heya
Gstaad is for anyone who wants to play badly.

That's very funny considering the tournament has been around since 1976, longer than many of the events on the tour now. There have been 5 Slam champions that have won the event, and there have 4 Slam champions that have been runner up.

That's not bad for these players must have played badly. If you are going to make an opinion at least make an attempt to back up why you came to that conclusion.

Experimentee
12-28-2003, 12:51 PM
The reason there arent that many grass court specialists high in the rankings is that they dont have opportunities to do well because there are so few grass tournaments. I'm sure there are some players who'd have won more titles had there been more grass tournaments, like Henman, Popp, Arthurs, Waske, Karlovic, etc. But the thing is most good grass courters arent ranked high because of the lack of grass tournaments, and thats unfair.

Many people here probably dont like grass because their faves dont do well on it, but if there were more grass tournaments including a TMS, players would be forced to adapt their games to grass and consequently improve their grass court games and confidence. There are some clay courters I've seen who hate grass and lose all their grass matches but I think if they actually worked on their grass court games more they definitely have the potential to do well. But right now there is no incentive to work on their grass games, since all that effort would only go to a couple of tournaments. That needs to be changed, and it would improve the overall games of many players.

TheBoiledEgg
12-28-2003, 12:59 PM
Most of the players hate grass cos they have no idea on how to play it.
keeping it the same length is gonna keep the players with their inhibitions

making it one week longer with a TMS in middle of the 3 weeks would make players who hate grass play more on it and play better.


on another note, the Aus Open when it was played in Nov/Dec in the 80's was preceeded by a tourn in Wembley (London) :o

TheBoiledEgg
12-28-2003, 01:02 PM
and what Marcelo Rios says: "tennis was never meant to be played on grass"

then how was the term "Lawn Tennis" come about ??

most of the world have dropped the Lawn from their name except the LTA :o no wonder they're stuck in a time warp.

jbud
12-28-2003, 05:51 PM
Each Grand Slam should have the same amount of build-up time. It's ridiculous that the Australian Open and Wimbledon have so few lead-up tournaments. I'd ask the ITF to work with the ATP and WTA to cut out all the meaningless minor tournaments after the US Open, and concentrate on organising a 9 1/2 month season.

Ma. Estefania
12-29-2003, 01:52 AM
I agree, jbud. :)

Action Jackson
12-29-2003, 02:42 AM
Good points jbud hopefully they realise it and shorten the season, but at the same time it shouldn't be at the expense of tennis being played globally.

What I mean I think it's great that South America has tournaments, they could play Qatar and Dubai consecutively as part of a longer lead in to the Australian Open for example. Obviously this would mean the Slams would to move to later dates, whether they like it or not.

Originally Posted byExperimentee
Many people here probably dont like grass because their faves dont do well on it, but if there were more grass tournaments including a TMS, players would be forced to adapt their games to grass and consequently improve their grass court games and confidence.


Those are very good points, but which TMS do you get rid of? Which one would be it? Halle has much better facilities than Queens, but they probably would give it to Queens.

I like some players that do well on grass, but that doesn't mean I enjoy watching grasscourt tennis for the majority of the time. One of the main reasons I watch it, is watching people who don't normally play well on grass winning matches. The perfect example of this is when Sergi Bruguera beat Pat Rafter at 94 Wimbledon 13-11 in the 5th set, that was a great result and I was laughing my head off at the end of match that he won it.

You say clay court players like that's a bad thing. I mean there is plenty of tennis played on faster surfaces, so these guys should be able to take advantage as well as with grass tournaments.

J. Corwin
12-29-2003, 03:26 AM
A lot of great points here.

heya
12-29-2003, 10:08 AM
Gstaad is for anyone who wants to play badly.
Change to:
Gstaad is for anyone who wants badly, to play.

J. Corwin
12-29-2003, 10:12 AM
A simple change in word order can make a huge difference in meaning. ;)

joske
12-29-2003, 11:31 AM
The reason there arent that many grass court specialists high in the rankings is that they dont have opportunities to do well because there are so few grass tournaments. I'm sure there are some players who'd have won more titles had there been more grass tournaments, like Henman, Popp, Arthurs, Waske, Karlovic, etc. But the thing is most good grass courters arent ranked high because of the lack of grass tournaments, and thats unfair.

EXACTLY! I totally agree on this one! :mad:

Experimentee
12-29-2003, 12:23 PM
Those are very good points, but which TMS do you get rid of? Which one would be it? Halle has much better facilities than Queens, but they probably would give it to Queens.

I like some players that do well on grass, but that doesn't mean I enjoy watching grasscourt tennis for the majority of the time. One of the main reasons I watch it, is watching people who don't normally play well on grass winning matches. The perfect example of this is when Sergi Bruguera beat Pat Rafter at 94 Wimbledon 13-11 in the 5th set, that was a great result and I was laughing my head off at the end of match that he won it.

You say clay court players like that's a bad thing. I mean there is plenty of tennis played on faster surfaces, so these guys should be able to take advantage as well as with grass tournaments.

Queen's probably should get it since its more prestigious, has a better field and the fact that Germany already has a couple of existing TMS tournaments.
I dont say clay courters like its a bad thing. I've stated many times that I think being able to play well on clay is a good thing rather than a bad thing. Some of my faves are clay courters, and I'm not afraid to admit it like some people here. Why do people always assume its negative when players are labelled "clay courters", yet whenever I say "grass courters" for example in this thread, no one says anything? Neither are bad, they just have different styles of tennis and the diversity is good for the tour.

There are faster surfaces where grass court specialists tend to play well, but its not the same as grass, which is unique all on its own, having other characteristics other than speed. On grass the ball stays low, you get weird bounces and skids, and that perfectly suits serve volleyers who use the slice as a method of attack. Some players developed their game on grass, like Wayne Arthurs who developed his various serves to take advantage of that type of court. I think he would have at least one title if there were more grass court tournaments around.

TheBoiledEgg
12-29-2003, 02:33 PM
I'd get rid of Cincinatti or another hard TMS, make the final 5 sets :fiery: or lose your TMS status :p


Queens has much better courts than the potato field courts of Halle, plus they are used to hosting and completing a 56 field draw in a week.

KarstenBraasch#1
12-29-2003, 02:43 PM
Queen's probably should get it since its more prestigious, has a better field and the fact that Germany already has a couple of existing TMS tournaments.

A couple ??? :rolleyes:

But I agree that Queens is way better than Halle where only clay-courters are playing, that's why Kiefer always reaches the final. :rolleyes: :p

Ma. Estefania
12-29-2003, 02:58 PM
Cincinnati TMS out would be a good option.....

maratski
12-29-2003, 03:36 PM
Cinci can go since there are already two other big TMS tourneys in the US. Queens could indeed be a good host. Somehow it also rains less in the week of Queens then in the weeks Wimbly is being played ;)

ktwtennis
12-30-2003, 01:32 AM
Cincy can't go b/c that's the only tourney I get to attend all year!!

Action Jackson
12-30-2003, 03:22 AM
The US already has 4 TMS tournaments, so yes they can get rid of Cincy. I think 3 TMS tournaments is enough, and the last time I looked Germany only has 1 TMS and not two. The other German one was moved to Madrid.

Experimentee, news for you I have actually played on grass and yes I am aware of how the surface plays, the joys of having a rich friend who is a member of that particular club. So thanks for the revolutionary review of the grass court game.

Originally posted by Experimentee
Why do people always assume its negative when players are labelled "clay courters", yet whenever I say "grass courters" for example in this thread, no one says anything?

This is off-topic but here goes. Well the in-bulit prejudices and stereotypes usually propagated by English-language media towards players who have greater success on clay is tiresome.

Obviously, there are players who are better on slower surfaces than faster ones and vice versa, though players who are 'grass courters' are not stigmatised to anywhere near the same degree as the other group.

No matter what happens for example Guga and Corretja winning the end of season TMC indoors, Ferrero, Corretja and Muster winning or making finals TMCs indoors or on hardcourt, they are still stigmatised as 'clay courters". The term specialist infers to expertise in their particular field(surface), whilst it can refer to lack of ability to achieve anywhere outside their particular field of expertise.

The term 'clay courters" is nearly outdated these days, as the players know and for the most part have been successful in improving their results off clay, whereas the fast court players aren't interesting in playing on or improving their clay results and for the most part this is never mentioned.

It's the double standard and the crap that goes with it, that many people assume that it's said with negative overtones.

Crazy_Fool
12-30-2003, 05:45 PM
I cant stand grass court tennis. A longer season! No way. I find the kinda tennis they play at Wimbeldon so boring, where technical ability is overlooked in favour of having a big serve. Shorten it down or something. I find it so boring...

And i'd i'd rather be a clay court specialist than a grass court specialist.

nevenez
05-05-2011, 01:47 PM
Yes, more grass and please give us back carpet.

interruptus25
05-05-2011, 02:13 PM
leave out one week of either iw/miami and extend the grass seaseon by one week, with queens as a 500 and halle as ms 1000 tournament, that would be perfect.

Lanthanide
05-05-2011, 02:53 PM
Of course.

nole_no1
05-05-2011, 03:34 PM
More grasscourt events before Wimbledon is all what i want from tennis :p

Zalo
05-05-2011, 04:35 PM
Any add to the grass season is a good thing.

RIboy
05-05-2011, 04:43 PM
prolonging grasscourt season with Masters 1000 in Amsterdam :angel: :devil:

cutesteve22
05-05-2011, 04:47 PM
I want a Grass Masters in Germany.

AncicCilic
05-06-2011, 09:05 AM
I'd like it to be about two weeks longer with it involving one masters tournament and possibly making Queens into an atp 500.

n8
05-06-2011, 09:50 AM
More than 80% of voters want a longer grass court season. Ignoring the difficulties in making this happen, I agree.

Sophocles
05-06-2011, 11:41 AM
The grass season should of COURSE be longer and moreover all the tournaments involved should use real grass that favours a style of play other than relentless topspin grinding from the baseline.

Stefanos13
05-06-2011, 12:29 PM
No, keep it as it is. Fast grass is a little boring to watch (thank god for slower Wimbledon). Grass relies mainly on technical abilities and hinders creativity :devil:

tyruk14
05-06-2011, 12:32 PM
No, keep it as it is. Fast grass is a little boring to watch (thank god for slower Wimbledon). Grass relies mainly on technical abilities and hinders creativity :devil:

Technical ability and creativity go hand-in-hand, broski. Not to say that baseliners can't be creative, however; Agassi and Nalbandian and Federer are prime examples of this.

Chase Visa
05-06-2011, 12:33 PM
Yes, even if it's largely a serve fest. The fact that we only have a few 250's on the surface and Wimby is a bit of a farce imo.

Put a Masters series on grass at least.

Stefanos13
05-06-2011, 12:36 PM
Technical ability and creativity go hand-in-hand, broski. Not to say that baseliners can't be creative, however; Agassi and Nalbandian and Federer are prime examples of this.

They don't. A player can have his technical abilities fully developed but that's only "playing by the book" – Henman prime example. Technically very good but creatively extremely average.

Also, grass is too fast to allow points to 'develop' into a creative exchange. Most points are over in 2.4 shots

Sophocles
05-06-2011, 01:21 PM
They don't. A player can have his technical abilities fully developed but that's only "playing by the book" – Henman prime example. Technically very good but creatively extremely average.

Also, grass is too fast to allow points to 'develop' into a creative exchange. Most points are over in 2.4 shots

I don't know what special definition of "creative" you're using. Or how long you've been watching grass-court tennis.

Fumus
05-06-2011, 01:34 PM
I don't know what special definition of "creative" you're using. Or how long you've been watching grass-court tennis.

I must agree, I prefer to watch players lob tennis balls at each other from 5 feet behind the baseline for about 20 shots until the point ends with one of them making an error.

Truly this is the pinnacle of "creative" shot making and awesome technical ability.

laurie-1
05-07-2011, 12:17 PM
Haha, this is certainly the "bump season" here - great stuff.

Nice to see so many old threads I've never seen before.

I would love to see a longer grass season.

This rather useless tournament in Madrid is a good example of why we should have a longer grass season. The Madrid tournament is a dull and uninteresting event which was absolutely not needed on the calendar. This has been the case since 2009. Every one of us would have happily survived without Madrid. This is a classic case of one clay tournament too many. Especially as we have the Foro Italico next week which looks like a combined event (mistake in my opinion).

It's a shame Ion Tiriac wasn't a fan of grass. The reason we have Madrid is because he had the determination to make it happen. If he loved grass instead, we might have had a Masters grass tournament before Wimbledon. His determination would have found a way to make something happen.