Best Player [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Best Player

WyverN
12-26-2003, 12:12 AM
So far judging by these polls we have:

Best Serve

Winner: Roddick

R-UP: Federer and Safin



Best Volley

Winner: Henman

R-Up: Federer

Best Forehand

Winner: Ferrero

R-UP: Safin/Federer

Best backhand:

Winner: Safin

R-UP: Federer


So who is the overall best player if everyone plays to their potential/talent.

Shy
12-26-2003, 12:22 AM
Federer is the best when he play to his potential. Safin is probably a close second.

Shadow
12-26-2003, 12:24 AM
Federer and Safin are the best when playing their best, definetly.

MisterQ
12-26-2003, 12:32 AM
Federer, Safin, and Agassi.

Shy
12-26-2003, 12:35 AM
I forgot Agassi. oups

J. Corwin
12-26-2003, 01:59 AM
In the order that Mister Q put them in: Federer, Safin, Agassi.

Deboogle!.
12-26-2003, 02:07 AM
hmm very hard to say since I don't think we've even seen the full potential (or heck, come close to seeing) of pretty much all of them (except perhaps Agassi by the sheer length of his career and the fact that he's probably past his peak)

Tingu
12-26-2003, 02:22 AM
I would have to say Roddick :)

Buddy
12-26-2003, 03:00 AM
federer's got an all rounded game..

Jazzy
12-26-2003, 04:43 AM
Ferrero & Coria!!!!!!!!!!!!!............not hard 2 choose!

Jazzy
12-26-2003, 04:44 AM
ouh, i'm the 1st 2 vote 4 ferrero!

star
12-26-2003, 04:44 AM
I don't like this "playing to potential" or "playing to talent."

Maybe Santoro has the most talent of anyone, but he's never going to be a top player because talent unfortunately is only a portion of the equation.

Potential.......... that is purely subjective and speculative.

The really important thing in competion that determines who is best is this: The person who wins the most. That's it pure and simple. And now we have a whole glorious year in front of us to see who that is going to be. :)

WyverN
12-26-2003, 04:53 AM
I don't like this "playing to potential" or "playing to talent."

Maybe Santoro has the most talent of anyone, but he's never going to be a top player because talent unfortunately is only a portion of the equation.


Being able to play to the full extent of your talent is part of the talent if you get what I mean. Talent has to be solid in both the physical play and the mental.

faboozadoo15
12-26-2003, 04:57 AM
federer for obvious reasons... safin for his explosiveness... and agassi for being able to secure a break because of his awesome returns.

(i figured i should give reasons since im repeating someone else's list :lol: )

Deboogle!.
12-26-2003, 04:58 AM
we're talking about mental too and people voted for Federer? lol

If we're talking the complete physical and mental package.... Andre.

faboozadoo15
12-26-2003, 05:01 AM
nobody mentioned mental yet :tape: ... but more potential. seems u get really defensive whenever roger is brought up... wonder why. safin's more of a headcase than federer. federer saved match points against agassi in houston on hardcourts and beat him for the first time... nuff said. federer isn't as weak mentally as he's made out to be.

Deboogle!.
12-26-2003, 05:03 AM
true, safin too lol.

I didn't realize we were talking about mental either. Wyver, the creator of the thread, brought it up - I didn't. but I haven't voted so it doesn't affect my choice anyway :)

star
12-26-2003, 05:11 AM
nobody mentioned mental yet :tape: ... but more potential. seems u get really defensive whenever roger is brought up... wonder why. safin's more of a headcase than federer. federer saved match points against agassi in houston on hardcourts and beat him for the first time... nuff said. federer isn't as weak mentally as he's made out to be.

I think when people talk about Federer's mentality they might be thinking more about last year when he did seem to be fragile mentally. He kept talking about it himself in interview after interview. He talked of how everything was there in his game but that he lacked self confidence. This year, he seems to have gotten that belief in himself squared away.

star
12-26-2003, 05:14 AM
Being able to play to the full extent of your talent is part of the talent if you get what I mean. Talent has to be solid in both the physical play and the mental.

Yeah, I get what you mean, but I'm not sure what you mean when you are talking about "talent." Are you talking about physical talent as well as tennis talent? And if you are talking the mental part of the game, I don't see how any of us can know what someone's full potential is in that department particularly since most people don't even know it for sure about themselves.

Deboogle!.
12-26-2003, 05:20 AM
I think when people talk about Federer's mentality they might be thinking more about last year when he did seem to be fragile mentally. He kept talking about it himself in interview after interview. He talked of how everything was there in his game but that he lacked self confidence. This year, he seems to have gotten that belief in himself squared away.

hmm perhaps he's better.... yet at the end of the season it was still a thing of like "which roger will show up at this tourney?" you had Paris where even he himself was like "this doesn't make me feel good going into Houston" and then he shows up in Houston and is the only one that even plays well lol. As long as it's that hard to tell what frame of mind he's in coming into a tourney, it's hard to say he's got that all under control. Not to say that he can't - I'm sure he'll continue to make progress, but at this point I'd say there's still some fragility there.

and I totally agree that, while physical talent is subjective enough, "mental talent" or potential is pretty much impossible to judge how good (or bad?) someone can get.

faboozadoo15
12-26-2003, 05:37 AM
he's more confident now because mrika gives a lot of head... case closed
lol... i needed one inappropriate post here before the year end!

Fedex
12-26-2003, 05:37 AM
Santoro?? I know you dont like Federer,Star, but NO ONE even comes close when hes playing his best!! Federer hands down!! I'd say Agassi is next!

star
12-26-2003, 05:46 AM
I do like Federer! What made you think I didn't? He's not on my top list of favorites, but I do like him.

And when I mention Santoro, I am only speaking of pure tennis tallent. Touch, shot making ability, etc. Federer has a lot of physical talents that Santoro just doesn't have.

star
12-26-2003, 05:46 AM
he's more confident now because mrika gives a lot of head... case closed
lol... i needed one inappropriate post here before the year end!

Well, then. Congratulations, I guess.

Fedex
12-26-2003, 05:47 AM
Why even start a thread like this!! If all past players came here to vote, Federer would have about 100% of the votes!! Sorry I dont see Johnny Mac or Becker hailing Roddick or anyone else one of the best ever!! Well except for Andre, he's already one of the best ever. I know it was posted somewhere but i cant find it! Its an article where Johnny Mac refers to Federer as one of the best ever to pick up a tennis raquet. Better go check this and other forums to see if i can find that article ;)

Fedex
12-26-2003, 05:50 AM
Wish I could vote for Andre 2! Come on only 1 vote when roddick got 4! Too bad this isnt a public poll where i can see who voted for andy as a joke!

WyverN
12-26-2003, 05:52 AM
we're talking about mental too and people voted for Federer? lol
If we're talking the complete physical and mental package.... Andre.

Federer had one bad loss after Wimbledon - DC to Hewitt.

Andre up until he was 28 was called one of the greatest underachievers of all time.

WyverN
12-26-2003, 05:54 AM
And when I mention Santoro, I am only speaking of pure tennis tallent. Touch, shot making ability, etc. Federer has a lot of physical talents that Santoro just doesn't have.

Then I believe the poll is fair. Santoro massively underachieved because he was a journeyman throughout his career when he had the talent to be #10. But he should not be included in the top tier of players as at his best he still would not beat Agassi, Roddick and Federer at their best.

WyverN
12-26-2003, 05:55 AM
and then he shows up in Houston and is the only one that even plays well lol.

Agassi played well, Nalbandian played well, Schuettler played well, Coria played well.

star
12-26-2003, 05:58 AM
Then I believe the poll is fair. Santoro massively underachieved because he was a journeyman throughout his career when he had the talent to be #10. But he should not be included in the top tier of players as at his best he still would not beat Agassi, Roddick and Federer at their best.

Ohmygosh. I never said he should be included. I just said that I think your terms are vague and subjective.

And don't get carried away with the head to heads as being the judge of who is the best player. Otherwise we will have Nalbandian being far and away a better player than Federer. :)

Fedex
12-26-2003, 06:01 AM
Well :retard: ! That DC match was terrible. I mean its great that hewitt showed true mental strength to win that one! I admire players like that(Justine's already legendary match w/ Capriati is one thing that made me a total fan of her) Besides her game! I would rate that match as the biggest "Federer Choke" all year. Next would be his match with Roddick at Montreal! It still pains me that he lost matches where he was up in both of them. One he just made soooo many errors, & the other who knows what happend. Soo many things went wrong for him to lose that Hewitt match. good thing i didnt actually see that one ;)

Chloe le Bopper
12-26-2003, 06:01 AM
Well in my purely subjective opinion (seeing as we all seem to define "talent" differently)... it's a toss between Safin and Federer. It's easy to forget how absolutely smooth and effortless Safin is when he's hot, given the crap year he just wrapped up - and the fact that he hasn't been on court. But I found him in 2000 every bit as impressive as Fed was this year... more so, actually.

If he was a bit younger, I'd go with Andre. On a single match basis, I'd go with Andre. If either of the two I mentioned get as great as he was at his best, it would be a wonderful thing.... but I haven't seen it yet.

MisterQ
12-26-2003, 06:02 AM
Regarding the votes for Roddick: I didn't vote for Andy, but I don't think it's completely ridiculous to consider him. He seems "rougher" than most of the others in the sense that there is still a lot he can improve in his game. And considering he is at No. 1 with a less-than-ideal game, I can see the justification in picking him as a possibility if he played up to his "potential". (a highly subjective term, as others have already mentioned)

Chloe le Bopper
12-26-2003, 06:03 AM
Regarding the votes for Roddick: I didn't vote for Andy, but I don't think it's completely ridiculous to consider him. He seems "rougher" than most of the others in the sense that there is still a lot he can improve in his game. And considering he is at No. 1 with a less-than-ideal game, I can see the justification in picking him as a possibility if he played up to his "potential". (a highly subjective term, as others have already mentioned)
Yeah, really... the whole "Roddick sucks!" crap is getting a bit old, no? That's so 2002.

Chloe le Bopper
12-26-2003, 06:06 AM
For the other three players that I didn't mention in my first post...

Ferrero and Roddick are both wonderful players with different strengths... but neither have the overall package like Safin or Federer, imo. I put Ferrero a notch above Roddick due to being able to adapt better to different surfaces... despite Roddick being younger, I just don't think that he'll adjust to clay as well as Ferrero has to grass.

As for Hewitt... mentally, he's better than anybody in that list. But he doesn't have the physical talents of a Safin or Fed... although I could make a case for him just based on that first bit... again, it all comes down to how we define talent.

Fedex
12-26-2003, 06:14 AM
We'll if were talking about best all time players, which i know were not, it would be a toss between Sampras, McEnroe, Laver, & Federer! Even if he hasnt achieved as much in their carrers(yet!) ahh it would be soo interesting is if Sampras were still here(playing well) to make a Federer, Sampras rivalry. much more interesting so far than the "Roddick-Federer" rivalry!

Fedex
12-26-2003, 06:16 AM
I hope a few more peole vote for Andre. Deserves more votes than 1!!

Chloe le Bopper
12-26-2003, 06:52 AM
I voted for Andre, just for you! Merry Christmas!

Fedex
12-26-2003, 07:23 AM
Thanx Rebecca. Thats the best present i've recieved so far. Too bad i cant give you anything! :sad: :sad:

Experimentee
12-26-2003, 01:10 PM
If they all play to their talent and potential that excludes an important part of tennis, which is mental. Of course if Safin played to his potential without any mental problems he'd be winning most tournaments, but the fact is mental strength is so important and cant be overlooked.
Anyway I voted for Agassi since he's managed to be so consistent and sustain his dominance for such a long period of time. He's more of a complete package than most of those other guys. Also up there would be Federer and Safin.

*Ljubica*
12-26-2003, 01:24 PM
Undoubtedly Federer - in my opinion he is a class above everyone else at the moment with his all-court game, and yes he does seem to have got his head together better this year.

From my own personal view, of course, I would love to say David or Guille, but I'm not so biased that I don't realise that Guille can never be considered "best player" til he has conquered his demons on grass and improved his serve. I think David is a much better all-round player, but he also needs to work on his serve, and admits himself that he's got some serious work to do in the "mental" department too. Maybe in a couple of years (I hope), but in the meantime it's got to be Roger with an injury-free Marat coming second.

Vass
12-26-2003, 01:49 PM
I strongly disagree with anyone who says undoubtedly in this situation. What doesn't Marat have? He has a serve, a back-hand, a forehand, and in the case of full potential, he has the mental capacity to defeat anyone.

star
12-26-2003, 02:10 PM
I guess we will see what we will see.

Lleyton has proved that heart and determination are intangibles that can lead to victory against more "talented" opponents. So, to me it doesn't really matter who is more "talented" and who has more "potential." I like to see who actually produces on the tennis court. Now that doesn't mean I will automatically like the guy who produces because I have criteria other than winning (and the sweetie factor is a very big factor to me :)), but in sports winning is what counts, not potential or talent.

*Ljubica*
12-26-2003, 02:16 PM
I strongly disagree with anyone who says undoubtedly in this situation. What doesn't Marat have? He has a serve, a back-hand, a forehand, and in the case of full potential, he has the mental capacity to defeat anyone.

I'm sorry if my choice of words offended you Vass, but in my opinion Federer has several shots of much better quality that Marat - his excellent volley for example, his forehand and also a very graceful and elegant style of movement on the court. Also, having seen many of Marat's matches I strongly disagree that he has "the mental capacity to defeat anyone", - ignoring this year's matches when he was obviously recovering from a long injury break, I would still mention the (in)famous Aussie Open final, his losses against Ivanisevic and Rochus in two successive Wimbledons, or any of his Santoro matches as proof that his "mental capacity" still needs some work!

star
12-26-2003, 02:33 PM
Plus, Federer moves better than Marat.

Shy
12-26-2003, 03:23 PM
Do you all think that Marat and Roger can't stop being headcase? They did improve though.

Dirk
12-26-2003, 03:33 PM
I hope so. Roger is getting better each year and I think more so than Safin that he could rid him of it forever. Safin his problem is he doesn't care enough about his career to really attempt to do it.

star
12-26-2003, 03:35 PM
I think that is right Dirk. Marat is more concerned about how he wants to live his life and that doesn't include a coach or anyone telling him to do things he doesn't want to do. But, he says that he got a new perspective while he was recovering from this injury. We will see how that translates into his performance.

Deboogle!.
12-26-2003, 03:58 PM
Yeah, really... the whole "Roddick sucks!" crap is getting a bit old, no? That's so 2002.

lol Rebecca!!! I concur :)

Anyway, I'm with you star..... let's see who produces on the tennis court. I hate when people talk about fulfilling potential.... like they always talk about that with kids in school like "he isn't living up to his potential" and stuff... I mean ok so? If the kid's doing poorly, it doesn't really matter what the potential is, what matters is that he's doing badly. Talent is such a subjective word and there's no way we'll ever going to agree. I mean it's hard to argue against people like Safin and Federer having natural gifts for the game of tennis. But what about someone like Pete? People call him gifted, but he also worked his ASSSSSSSS off and never let up til the end. That's why he was so dominant for so long, not because he was gifted. So if someone like Ferrero or Roddick just plain works a lot harder than someone like Safin or Federer, they may end up being the better players at the end of a long career. I'm not saying this will happen, just that it's possible. I hate 'what-ifs' - what happens happens and it's great to talk about that but until Roger and Marat prove they're the best, and they very well might do that, I don't think it really matters that they have the most 'natural gift'

maratski
12-26-2003, 06:04 PM
My wish for 2004 is that people stop calling Marat a headcase ;)

He isn't a headcase anymore since TMS Paris 2002, but he got injured not so long after that and it's the reason why you people still haven't noticed the change!

Shadow
12-26-2003, 06:11 PM
I think that is right Dirk. Marat is more concerned about how he wants to live his life and that doesn't include a coach or anyone telling him to do things he doesn't want to do. But, he says that he got a new perspective while he was recovering from this injury. We will see how that translates into his performance.

do you know Marat personally or why do you know what is in his head?

star
12-26-2003, 07:58 PM
No, that's just my speculation based on what I see and what I read in his interviews.

He has said he doesn't like a coach because he doesn't like following the orders of a coach, and he has said that he got a new perspective on his career during this injury recuperation.

I don't know, the guy could be completely lying, but I took him at his word.

star
12-26-2003, 08:00 PM
Btw, don't jump to the conclusion that I don't like Safin. I think he is a charming and funny guy. I was thrilled when he won the USO. But, lately I haven't enjoyed watching him play because he seems nearly to implode on the court. Ditto for Rios. But, he's not one of the players that I dislike.

maratski
12-26-2003, 08:15 PM
He actually calmed down lately :o

Marat has never said he doesn't like a coach, he has just not found the right one yet. This also has to do with the fact that he can be stubborn. He says that he knows what he's doing and I believe him. I hope he can also finally prove it in 2004 ;)

Shadow
12-26-2003, 08:17 PM
Then dont write it as your speculation and not as a definitive thing.

I hate it when people always say Marat has to do this and that, and he is that because of that and bla bla bla...
they think they know!

I dont care if you like Marat or not, but some things you say dont get together here.

star
12-26-2003, 08:18 PM
I didn't understand anything about that post.

Clearly anything I post here is my own opinion. Just remember that about all my posts in the future.

And sorry, I didn't get that last sentence at all.

star
12-26-2003, 08:20 PM
He actually calmed down lately :o

Marat has never said he doesn't like a coach, he has just not found the right one yet. This also has to do with the fact that he can be stubborn. He says that he knows what he's doing and I believe him. I hope he can also finally prove it in 2004 ;)

I remember him saying it was because he didn't like to follow their directions. But perhaps my memory is wrong.

It would be a shame indeed if Marat didn't ever fufill that wonderful promise that he showed in winning the USO. I thought at that time that he would become a dominant player, but the game of tennis constantly surprises me and proves me wrong again and again. :)

J. Corwin
12-26-2003, 08:28 PM
I thought at that time that he would become a dominant player, but the game of tennis constantly surprises me and proves me wrong again and again. :)

And that's what makes the sport so interesting to follow.

maratski
12-26-2003, 08:35 PM
Taking orders is kinda difficult for him, but I think that has to do with him being sent to Spain when he was younger. He had to take care of himself there and since then he finds it difficult to listen to people. If you combine that with the fact that he has problems trusting people you get an intruiging player ;)

star
12-26-2003, 08:37 PM
So, I guess we are agreeing. Marat has some problem with people telling him what to do. :)

I'm not so big on intrigue. ;)

JeLuliA88
12-27-2003, 09:21 AM
Federer has an all-round game...needs to improve mentally thou. Safin probably would come in close second, if only he was more consistent.

Crazy_Fool
12-30-2003, 05:48 PM
Marat Safin has got it all. So has Federer but i prefer Marat ;)

beckermeister
12-30-2003, 06:23 PM
On a hardcourt at the current stage of their careers'...

1. Federer- bigger edge on grass
2. Safin - is his "best" even possible anymore?
3. Roddick -on a hardcourt- very, very close to top two

4. Nalbadian - could beat anyone if not everyone
5. Ferrero- if the list was for clay-then he moves to #1
6. Agassi- slowing down very slowly
7. Hewitt- not the weapons but would jump on anyone having an off day

Certainly wouldn't give heavy odds on any of the top 3.

Fedex
12-31-2003, 08:56 PM
Its getting quite annoying that Marat is winning every poll out there!! All of his fans must come out & vote for him even when he's clearly not the best!! Federer is a far more gifted player, followed by Agassi

maratski
12-31-2003, 08:58 PM
Would Marat be winning every poll out there if he didn't have so much potential and talent? ;)

maratski
12-31-2003, 09:03 PM
When Marat played to his potential he blew Sampras off the court, it took Roger 5 sets ;)

Vass
12-31-2003, 10:27 PM
Its getting quite annoying that Marat is winning every poll out there!! All of his fans must come out & vote for him even when he's clearly not the best!! Federer is a far more gifted player, followed by Agassi

I may doubt that results of other polls where he won are correct, or deserved (even the backhand), but this is the territory in which Marat IS in fact the best. Look what sports writers have been writing, and are still writing: whenever talent is mentioned there's a comparison to Marat and Roger. Most writers prefer to put Marat on the first place, and then Roger follows. Even if Roger is better he is not "far more gifted", but about the same. That's why writers are aguing about this: there is no clear favourite between the two.

PS: I don't remember reading many articles where Agassi's talent is said to be the best.

Shy
12-31-2003, 10:45 PM
I agree that there is no clear favorite between Marat or Roger. Some people put Roger ahead,and others Marat.It depends on our preference I guess. Nobody can't really argue over the fact that they are the two most gifted player.I would vote for the two of them.

Fedex
12-31-2003, 10:45 PM
Oh so you think that Sampras was playing well do you! He played like crap in the final! A Sampras a few years before then would of destroyed Marat! Lets not forget Roger's record against Marat! 3-1 Federer! Theres your proof! Besides if Marat is so great, at least Federer is living up to his potiental, unlike others!!!

Fedex
12-31-2003, 10:51 PM
Oh and i just love someone's quote where it stated that every player on tour agreed that no one could touch Marat,even the best ever! I beg to differ! Federer i'm sure dosnt think so, & some of the old all time great players like Becker,McEnroe, ect. wouldnt agree with that statement

maratski
12-31-2003, 11:44 PM
Having 11 titles at age 23 of which one is a GS and three are TMS titles is not bad at all. Reaching the final of another GS and of a few other TMS tournaments isn't bad either. Roger may have a winning record against Marat, but IMO it doesn't say much. Sampras also has a winning record against Agassi, but that doesn't make Andre that much inferior.

maratski
12-31-2003, 11:47 PM
Oh and i just love someone's quote where it stated that every player on tour agreed that no one could touch Marat,even the best ever! I beg to differ! Federer i'm sure dosnt think so, & some of the old all time great players like Becker,McEnroe, ect. wouldnt agree with that statement

I think McEnroe and Becker might have said it too :p

Fedex
01-01-2004, 12:04 AM
Yes, but he had that ONE good year!! What has he done after winning the US Open!! Not very much!! People arent even talking about him anymore! Not even hewitt much! There talking about Federer, Ferrero & Roddick! Marat was injured for 1 year, but what about the other 2!! They did not say that i can tell you!! Some Marat fan just made that up them selves!! ;)

Fedex
01-01-2004, 12:06 AM
I am of course talking about that ridiculous quote that i posted earlier! McEnroe or Becker certainly didnt say those things about Marat! Maybe Roger though!! ;)

Jessi
01-01-2004, 12:16 AM
"Theres your proof" lol

Both Nalbandian and Hewitt have superior h2hs against Roger, does it mean they are more gifted?

If it'll make you sleep better at night Fedex, i think Roger is the most talented player that ever lived and no one can hold a candle to him! Marat and everyone else can only dream of having Rogi's talent and smooth as silk game.

Jessi
01-01-2004, 12:27 AM
I am of course talking about that ridiculous quote that i posted earlier! McEnroe or Becker certainly didnt say those things about Marat! Maybe Roger though!! ;)

I'm afraid they did say those things about Marat and even Roger himself ;)

John McEnroe (2002): I’m hoping he will (fulfill his talent). It’d be big for the men’s game if he did. He’s a very smart guy.. he speaks a lot of languages. He’s obviously a great-looking young guy… If people could just make him understand… how big it would be for him to step up and play with the type of fire that a Hewitt plays with. It would be incredible for tennis. If he could embrace that even for a few years… “

“And now you know why the men’s game wants a Safin. What he’s got… what he brings to the table, he brings a lot. If they market him properly, you’d see some big things for the men’s game.”

Jim Courier (2001): “He’s the prototype for the new generation of tennis players. That’s the body. If you could pick one, if you could design one… that is exactly the body that you want. Because he’s fast and he’s smooth, and he doesn’t move like a guy normally moves 6-4 on a tennis court. You see those guys who kind of lumber around. This guy, man… He’s a real natural”

>>“If he could put it all together… who could stop this guy? On his best day, I don’t think there’s another guy who’s as good as he is… It’s really just a question of him putting it all together and keeping his head together. He’s young, there’s no reason he can’t have a beautiful career."

Fabrice Santoto: "Hewitt, he is not the most brilliant, but he plays right. But according to me, the best player of the world is Marat Safin. He is able to push tennis to another dimension (another level). It is not normal that he loses against me..."

Jiri Novak: "For me, the best player in the world is Marat Safin because I think he can play well on all the surfaces and he has great potential."

Nicolas Escude: "When Safin is right mentally, I consider him the best player in the world. Far ahead of the others."

Roger Federer: "The most talented for me is Marat Safin. Definetly, because he has already won a Grand Slam, Masters Series, and with his age it's unbelievable."

Lady
01-01-2004, 12:42 AM
Thank you, Jessi!
it seems that people forget quickly how admired Marat's talents were, when ne was playing!
Just the same admiration Roger gets now! :)
That's why I consider them equally talanted :bounce:

Tingu
01-01-2004, 05:51 AM
I agree Lady

Fedex
01-01-2004, 06:26 AM
Well Roger's quote meant that Marat was the most gifted AFTER himself! Wonder where you heard those outragous quotes!! I'd have to hear them say it now!! I think those may be stolen quotes when they were really talking about Federer or maybe Sampras!! Like i said before he's not living up to his potietal anyway! He'll may be, i'm afraid a 1 slam wonder! Heck, I believe Roddick will win more slams, but Marat thinks he'll be able to be #1 again pftttt. He'll be suprised when every top 10 player beats him(if he advances far enough in a tourney to meet one), and how much they have improved!! He thinks it will be so easy

Vass
01-01-2004, 08:52 AM
Lets just say that for a guy who is a "total nutcase" like people who hate Marat say, Safin's 11 titles are not that bad. If he wasn't that "nutcase" he would have won twice or thrice more, or at least had another GS title to his name (Aussie Open).

Vass
01-01-2004, 09:05 AM
Well Roger's quote meant that Marat was the most gifted AFTER himself!
Where do you see Roger saying "after myself" in that sentance!!!??? When you tell people that Roger is the best, do you mean that it's after yourself too?
Wonder where you heard those outragous quotes!! I'd have to hear them say it now!!
So you think Jessi's lying now. Go to ANY Marat's site, you'll find the quotes. safinslides.com offers an audio in one slide show, with commentators speaking about the talent.
I think those may be stolen quotes when they were really talking about Federer or maybe Sampras!!
You're wasted apparently. Is it from the New Year's party? Then come back when the hang-over ir in the past.
Like i said before he's not living up to his potietal anyway! He'll may be, i'm afraid a 1 slam wonder!
Atleast you achnoledged that he has talent. Thank God.
Heck, I believe Roddick will win more slams, but Marat thinks he'll be able to be #1 again pftttt. He'll be suprised when every top 10 player beats him(if he advances far enough in a tourney to meet one), and how much they have improved!! He thinks it will be so easy
Does anybody around here believe that everybody in the top-10 will win him?! He will atleast continue playing like he did before the injury: winning the top-10 players rather often. And if he's not going to win, blame the injury, he simlpy did not recover in that case. Plus, did Marat ever say that it'll be easy? NO! I beleive his words were: 'it will be a slow process', or something like that. He didn't put the date of his return to the No.1 spot either.

maratski
01-01-2004, 09:29 AM
I see your quite hardheaded Fedex :haha:

My girl Jessi has quotes that come from interviews with all those players. You should spend some days reading interviews from ASAP sports ;)

Heck, I believe Roddick will win more slams, but Marat thinks he'll be able to be #1 again pftttt. He'll be suprised when every top 10 player beats him(if he advances far enough in a tourney to meet one), and how much they have improved!! He thinks it will be so easy


Roddick will only win more slams if all slams would be played on hardcourt in the future ;) and then the competition from players like Marat will still be hard :p

Jessi
01-01-2004, 10:14 PM
Well Roger's quote meant that Marat was the most gifted AFTER himself! Wonder where you heard those outragous quotes!! I'd have to hear them say it now!! I think those may be stolen quotes when they were really talking about Federer or maybe Sampras!!

erm, yeah, whatever. :cuckoo: You wish those quotes were about Federer. You must be new to tennis cos people have been saying those things about Marat for years now.

Heck, I believe Roddick will win more slams, but Marat thinks he'll be able to be #1 again pftttt.

At least Marat has been #1 unlike Roger.:p Maybe you should worry aobut your guy trying to reach no.1 for the first time in his career instead of mocking someone who has already been there. Until this year, Federer has lagged behind the others in career achievements... he’s so head and shoulders above everyone else and yet he is the one always playing catch up.

He thinks it will be so easy

Can you give us quotes where he said he thinks it will be so easy? You can't because he never said it. Why read his interviews and find out what he actually thinks when you can just fabricate lies and make things up.
Since you’re so fond of outrageous quotes Fedex here are some more for you.

Q. It looks as if the year is still not being very kind to you.
MARAT SAFIN: Yeah. But is the way it is, so I have to take care, take it slow, try not to get upset too much because I've been out for a long time, for six months. So is difficult to come back and start winning matches because you lose everything. You lose the movement on the court, you lose the eye, you lose the confidence, you lose everything. Then when you come back, you start to picking up all these small things step by step.

Q. Did you already feel any improvement through these two weeks or three weeks?
MARAT SAFIN: Slowly, but my improvement will be when I win my first match. But I'm looking forward. Still two tournaments left. But I'm definitely not in a best shape. It's difficult for me. It's coming too fast, so I have to take it easy. That's why I'm trying not to get upset too much when I lose, because is not magic, you know, to come back from injury, start away straight win matches.

Fedex
01-01-2004, 10:24 PM
I've been following tennis for years(since the age of McEnroe, Connors& Borg)! But i dont pay much attention to stupid meaningless quotes, from players that i dont care for!!! Ask them what they'd say now!! They would no longer be talking about Marat!! Federer is a much differernt player from when those quotes spilled from peoples mouthes!! They didnt metion him becuase he had yet lived to his potiental!!! Im Sorry but I dont believe a hard-hitting ball basher, can ever be considererd the most TALENTED!! When it comes to potiental, his does not meausure up to Federer's or Agassi's

Kiara
01-01-2004, 10:54 PM
Well Roger's quote meant that Marat was the most gifted AFTER himself!
yeah ...thats what Roger MEANT :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Jessi
01-01-2004, 11:11 PM
The only one spewing stupid meaningless shit is you, Fedex. You've got your head stuck up Roger’s ass so that you’re unable to think rational thoughts. Well, just know that not everyone feels the same way you do.

Shy
01-01-2004, 11:22 PM
Im Sorry but I dont believe a hard-hitting ball basher, can ever be considererd the most TALENTED!!
Have you ever seen Marat play? I'm a big Federer fan(he's my fave), but that doesn't mean that I can't appreciate others talent. If Roger can praise Marat, why can't you see that Marat is talented too. IT's not like you know better than him on what he meant to say. You know people had said that Federer hadn't been playing to his potential until this year (still isn<t in my opinion). So, you accused Safin of it when Roger pretty much is like him. I still believe that they are equally talented.

star
01-01-2004, 11:25 PM
Vass 22, you are cracking me up. :)

I think that Agassi is being very much overlooked here when talking about naturally talented players. He is able to hold his own with the top players while he is still 10 years older than they. No one sees the ball the way he does. His game isn't as scintilating now as it once was, but I don't think he should be entirely over looked in this mano a mano between Safin and Federer.

And I say this as a non fan. :)

LubiG
01-01-2004, 11:35 PM
GUILLERMO CORIA! :worship:

Jessi
01-01-2004, 11:43 PM
Have you ever seen Marat play? I'm a big Federer fan(he's my fave), but that doesn't mean that I can't appreciate others talent. If Roger can praise Marat, why can't you see that Marat is talented too. IT's not like you know better than him on what he meant to say. You know people had said that Federer hadn't been playing to his potential until this year (still isn<t in my opinion). So, you accused Safin of it when Roger pretty much is like him. I still believe that they are equally talented.

:worship: A sensible and balanced post. Thanks Shy!

Yanina
01-02-2004, 05:16 AM
NALBANDIAN... THE ONE WHO REALLY CARES
YANI
I LOVE HIM WITH ALL MY HEART

Fedex
01-02-2004, 05:31 AM
I've seen more talented baseliners than Safin, thats for sure!!! Now once again this poll is almost meaningless with all the Safin fans just voting for him in every poll, regardless of what it is!!! Please tell me one thing Safin does better than Federer!!!

Leo
01-02-2004, 05:38 AM
Depends on the surface.

Dirk
01-02-2004, 05:43 AM
I think Safin and Federer equal each out in terms of weapons. Roger might not have played to his full potential but he has been doing better year after year something that Marat hasn't been doing. I just hope Marat takes his career really seriously. To be fair though, both guys have had a habit of being too lazy as competitors. Still they are the best talents on the tour. Agassi has his own special place too.

Jessi
01-02-2004, 05:52 AM
Please tell me one thing Safin does better than Federer!!!

Safin performs better in slams than Federer. :p

Fedex
01-02-2004, 06:29 AM
That maybe true so far!! But as of now their equal in slams titles! How far has Marat gone at RG!! Because if Roger is ahead of him there than they whould be equal in whose gone the farthest in ea. Slam! Rogers gone farther in Wimbledon, Marats gone Farther in the US Open & Australian! If Roger's gone farther than Marat in RG than they would be tied!

Jessi
01-02-2004, 06:33 AM
How far has Marat gone at RG!!

Semis

Dirk
01-02-2004, 06:34 AM
Fedex please let it go. God I love Federer fans but you're starting to annoy me. :(

Tingu
01-02-2004, 06:35 AM
Personally i think Roger Federer is better than Safin

WyverN
01-02-2004, 08:00 AM
While Safin may well be the most naturally talented player ever, I am certain he will have a inferior career to Federer and that is all that matters in the end.

maratski
01-02-2004, 08:59 AM
I've been following tennis for years(since the age of McEnroe, Connors& Borg)! But i dont pay much attention to stupid meaningless quotes, from players that i dont care for!!! Ask them what they'd say now!! They would no longer be talking about Marat!! Federer is a much differernt player from when those quotes spilled from peoples mouthes!! They didnt metion him becuase he had yet lived to his potiental!!! Im Sorry but I dont believe a hard-hitting ball basher, can ever be considererd the most TALENTED!! When it comes to potiental, his does not meausure up to Federer's or Agassi's

You don't like quotes and I don't have them at the moment, but I'll talk to you about commentators, you just have to take my word for it ;)

Marat has been out for pretty much the entire season while the likes of Roger, Juan Carlos and Andy finally emerged. They were the shit this year and everybody kept talking about them, all commentators. If Marat is nothing but a hard-hitting ball basher, then why is his name (and also Lleyton) always mentioned when talking about the rivalries of the future. All commentators acknowledge him as a good and talented player, even Andy said so on CNN a few days ago. Andy believes he'll battle the big tournaments out with Roger, Juan Carlos, Marat and Lleyton.

Just my two cents ;)

WyverN
01-02-2004, 09:15 AM
They were the shit this year and everybody kept talking about them, all commentators. If Marat is nothing but a hard-hitting ball basher, then why is his name (and also Lleyton) always mentioned when talking about the rivalries of the future.
Just my two cents ;)

I doubt it. Not Lleyton and Safin although Safin will probably win another slam eventually.

maratski
01-02-2004, 10:26 AM
Some people are so in denial ;)

Kiara
01-02-2004, 12:44 PM
That maybe true so far!! But as of now their equal in slams titles! How far has Marat gone at RG!! Because if Roger is ahead of him there than they whould be equal in whose gone the farthest in ea. Slam! Rogers gone farther in Wimbledon, Marats gone Farther in the US Open & Australian! If Roger's gone farther than Marat in RG than they would be tied!
....is this how you measure talent? :rolleyes:

star
01-02-2004, 01:21 PM
I was just wondering what is up with all the exclaimation points in Fedex's posts.

Vass
01-02-2004, 03:23 PM
Roger, or Marat caused a short circuit in his synapses, that's all. ;)

Shy
01-02-2004, 03:51 PM
Fedex- even Federer himself say that he found a lots of similarities between him and Marat,especially mentally.I like this quote.

Of course, you never know what's going to come next. I think we are very similar. Me, too, also a little bit. So we get cross on the court if we're not happy with our games. We are disappointed when it's not going well; we are happy when it works well. I think we can both hit shots, like, you don't expect. So I think we have something similar. Of course Marat is, ranking-wise and result-wise, in a different league, but I hope I can catch up with him. – Roger Federer, Tennis Masters Series Rome, 2001

Vass
01-02-2004, 05:53 PM
Nicely said Shy!

Leo
01-03-2004, 03:13 AM
While Safin may well be the most naturally talented player ever, I am certain he will have a inferior career to Federer and that is all that matters in the end.

Wow, you are making some seriously bold statements about players like Safin and Hewitt. I just hope you don't end up with your foot in your mouth like Greg Rusedski 10 years from now ... actaully I do.

WyverN
01-03-2004, 03:48 AM
Wow, you are making some seriously bold statements about players like Safin and Hewitt. I just hope you don't end up with your foot in your mouth like Greg Rusedski 10 years from now ... actaully I do.

10 years is far to long to wait, Hewitt not making a slam final and Safin not making a slam semi in the next year is a far more interesting prediction.

Unlike Rusedski I was not stupid enough to doubt a man who has won 13 slams up to that point.

Leo
01-03-2004, 04:09 AM
10 years is far to long to wait, Hewitt not making a slam final and Safin not making a slam semi in the next year is a far more interesting prediction.

Well if we're talking about careers, we're going to have to wait until each one retires.

WyverN
01-03-2004, 05:51 AM
you will see i am correct far before their careers are over

Crazy_Fool
02-13-2004, 04:12 PM
Hewitt not making a slam final
You think Hewitt will never make a slam final again yet this yr we have had the likes of Vekerk reaching one so thats a ridiculous claim to make. Mind you, you are a hater so i understand.

faboozadoo15
02-13-2004, 04:31 PM
You think Hewitt will never make a slam final again yet this yr we have had the likes of Vekerk reaching one so thats a ridiculous claim to make. Mind you, you are a hater so i understand.
there are only 6 remaining spots in finals of majors this year. i don't think hewitt is one of the 6 best players right now.

your example of verkerk making the final shows a weak draw to the final last year, which leads me to believe that you even think that hewitt would only make the final if he got a weak draw.... i don't see it happening, and i like lleyton...

FanOfHewitt
02-13-2004, 04:49 PM
there are only 6 remaining spots in finals of majors this year. i don't think hewitt is one of the 6 best players right now.

your example of verkerk making the final shows a weak draw to the final last year, which leads me to believe that you even think that hewitt would only make the final if he got a weak draw.... i don't see it happening, and i like lleyton...

With the likes of Schuettler, Philippoussis, Verkerk, Johansson and Costa reaching finals in recent years I wouldn't be discounting anyone in the top 25 from making a slam final. I especially wouldn't be discounting a guy who has already proved that he can beat the world's very best.

faboozadoo15
02-13-2004, 05:07 PM
With the likes of Schuettler, Philippoussis, Verkerk, Johansson and Costa reaching finals in recent years I wouldn't be discounting anyone in the top 25 from making a slam final. I especially wouldn't be discounting a guy who has already proved that he can beat the world's very best.
true. but now we are seeing a select few who are asserting their dominance over the second week. that did not happen in EACH of the times where those players made their final. except for mark who took out agassi. those slam days are quite the thing of the past, if you ask me.

im certainly not discounting hewiit of all chances to make a grand slam final, don't get me wrong. but i think the chances are lower than 50%. i would take the bet against him.

joeb_uk
02-13-2004, 05:48 PM
i think federer is the best player, i also think safin is great! but dont think he is as good as federer

Havok
02-13-2004, 06:30 PM
i think weird finalists/GS winners will diminish very quickly, because the new balls (Federer, Ferrero, Roddick, Safin)have established themselves quite nicely and won't lose in the early rounds. then you got Agassi who's a staple quarterfinalist at least. then you have the likes of Coria, Nalbandian, and to a lesser extend Rainer and Mark bringing up the rear. pretty tough for someone to sneak through the Grand Slam fields now. it can still happen, but imo it won't happen as much. and it's about time too:o

faboozadoo15
02-13-2004, 07:08 PM
i think weird finalists/GS winners will diminish very quickly, because the new balls (Federer, Ferrero, Roddick, Safin)have established themselves quite nicely and won't lose in the early rounds. then you got Agassi who's a staple quarterfinalist at least. then you have the likes of Coria, Nalbandian, and to a lesser extend Rainer and Mark bringing up the rear. pretty tough for someone to sneak through the Grand Slam fields now. it can still happen, but imo it won't happen as much. and it's about time too:o
i agree with everything u said except is lleyton "new balls generation" himself?

Havok
02-13-2004, 09:09 PM
yes but imo the "new balls" i mentiones are a step ahead of him. maybe not in results, but gameplay, and they got more weapons and can get very far in all tournaments. imo Hewitt will have trouble getting to the quarters, and even semis. he's really lost his awesome play that he had with him for most of 2001, and all of 2002. it's why i left him out. if he shows up in that old form again, i'll throw him back in the loop with the other "new balls"

WyveN
02-13-2004, 11:16 PM
You think Hewitt will never make a slam final again yet this yr we have had the likes of Vekerk reaching one so thats a ridiculous claim to make. Mind you, you are a hater so i understand.

If you actually read the thread I predicted Safin wouldn't make slam semis this year as well. Safin is one of my favourite players, glad I got that one wrong.

My opinion of Hewitt has nothing to do with hating him but thats a concept you wont understand

Jazzy
02-14-2004, 02:47 AM
the poll shows Safin & Federer dominating!! which is probably b/c they both made it to the AO final!! interesing!

Shadow
02-14-2004, 11:19 AM
the poll shows Safin & Federer dominating!! which is probably b/c they both made it to the AO final!! interesing!

nope, they were already dominating the poll before the AO even started.

Crazy_Fool
02-14-2004, 11:03 PM
If you actually read the thread I predicted Safin wouldn't make slam semis this year as well. Safin is one of my favourite players, glad I got that one wrong.

My opinion of Hewitt has nothing to do with hating him but thats a concept you wont understand
I understand that whenever a post about Hewitt comes up you feel the need to write essays explaining why he isnt that good or why he isnt gonna win a slam. Sure, its your opinion but to be honest its an awful lot like u aint a big fan of him.

AgassiFan
02-15-2004, 01:03 AM
Safin is extremely talented. More so than Medvedev who had talent and more so than Kafelnikov had a lot of talent.

But Roger is even MORE talented, and the smart money is on HIM to have a longer, more accomplished career.

Anything is possible: who knew Agassi would be better at 31 than he was at 26 while Courier burned out at 25? Who knew Ivan Lendle would be better at 30 than he was at 24-25 while Becker hit his peak in his teen/early 20s? Martina Hingis was on top of the world in in her teens as well-- WHERE is she now? Pete Sampras was viewed as a big talent coming up as a teen, but around 1989-90 who knew he'd end up as one of the two greatest players ever to play this game? Matts Vilander hit his peak in his early 20s as well. Marcelo Rios was a marvelous talent back in 98, but less talented Michael Chang will go down in history as simply a better player..............ALL sports archieves are full examples just like that.

I am sorry, but at 6'4'' and base-line favoring style, I fear he will succumb to injuries (back, hit, knee, ankle joint, etc) as he gets in his mid-late 20s when a human body is simply not as flexible (see gymnastics) let along his 30's.

I mean it's one thing for a barely 5'10'/150 pound (in his 20s anyway) Agassi to run around and stretch-slide for hours on end. It's quite another for a 6'4 200 pound Marat. He is athletic for his size, but there is always a limit to everything.

That he will win at least 3-4 Slams I have little doubt, but beyond that? Who the hell knows.

Writing off Hewitt while licking Nabaldmandian's, Ferrero's and Roddick's ass is a big mistake. I don't like him as a person, but he is still a top 6 player in the world talent-wise, and is among the leaders in DETERMINATION and FITNESS, two very underrated qualities IMO.

I think Federer is already a friggin' stark, though. If Andrei Medvedev could make Rolan Garros Final once and semifinals couple more times, who in the world would think Roger cannot do it?! And we all know how Roger can do on grass and decoturf.........Knowing how funny life is, I wouldn't be suprised if Roger wins GOLDEN SLAM this year and then ends up being an injury-plagued underachiever thereafter.

LMAO.

WyveN
02-15-2004, 01:09 AM
Writing off Hewitt while licking Nabaldmandian's, Ferrero's and Roddick's ass is a big mistake. I don't like him as a person, but he is still a top 6 player in the world talent-wise, and is among the leaders in DETERMINATION and FITNESS, two very underrated qualities IMO.


The players you listed are above top 6

How many slams do you think Roddick will win wise one?

AgassiFan
02-15-2004, 01:53 AM
The players you listed are above top 6

And your point is...?

People around here only seem to remember Marat dismantling Pete in 2000 USO and ascribing to him untold feats of Slam-winning largely based on that great win.....But Hewitt handlily beat Pete in 2001 USO, no?

How many slams do you think Roddick will win?

Missing forest for the trees much?

NOTHING is a given in tennis, NOTHING is predictable.

Andy could win 12 Slams. He may win 2.

A recurring ham/groin tear, a case of depression/loss of great confidence in your abilities or of intense interest in the game.....and a player can drop out of the top 10, without making it past the Quarterfinal again, before you can say "Slam".

People take Pete's dominance for granted and think talent = automatic achievement. Since Andy and Roger are arguably as talented as Pete, why shouldn't they win 10-12 slams each....right? Right?

WRONG.

Crazy_Fool
02-15-2004, 03:12 PM
WyveN thinks he knows what will happen in the future though. He seems convinced that this will happen, or that will happen, when really its impossible to know. To write of players like hewitt but then claim nalbandian is all that is very ignorant to say the least.

AgassiFan
02-15-2004, 11:14 PM
Should we concede Rolan Garros to One Carlos? I think so.

Wimbly to Fed? I think so.

USO? Any one of the usual suspects (Rod, Baldy, Fed) can take it.

WyveN
02-16-2004, 12:03 AM
WyveN thinks he knows what will happen in the future though. He seems convinced that this will happen, or that will happen, when really its impossible to know. To write of players like hewitt but then claim nalbandian is all that is very ignorant to say the least.

Where did I claim anything about Nalbandian? I give him 2 slams at most.
I do believe he is a superior player to Hewitt right now.

LCeh
02-17-2004, 03:40 AM
hehe, the poll is tied. I just voted for Federer, simply because of his natural display of his creativity. Safin is great too, but from the games I have watched, he seems to lack the ball-hitting talent that Roger possesses. Surely he is very gifted physically, but like Mary Carillo always say, nobody hits the ball quite like Roger does.

joske
02-18-2004, 08:06 AM
Id say..... Federer, Safin and Ferrero?

alfonsojose
02-20-2004, 08:17 PM
Hewitt = Hingis.

He'll never comeback. It would be nice but it's too hard.

alfonsojose
02-20-2004, 08:22 PM
Of course, I'm talking about the no.1 ranking and dominating player level. Not about injuries or retirement.

crystal
02-21-2004, 09:51 AM
Everybody says in this thread that Marat and Federer are the best.
Maybe they are.
I absolutely respect Federer and Marat's games, but the thing is I prefer Ferrero. I don't know why, but that's it, I love seeing him playing, I especially love his forehand.
So stop fighting about "who's the best between Marat and Roger". We all have our preferences and those who prefer Roger will never accept to admit that safin is the best, and it's the same thing for safin's fans.
But you were talking about talent : just want to have your opinions guys about a player I like a lot too : Sébastien Grosjean.
I agree for saying that he's not been playing very well the past two years coz he's been often injured. But have you heard about him in 2001 when he reached AO semis, Roland Garros semis, and then he won Paris Master Series and he finished runner-up at the master cup ? Do you remember this player ? (I should add that he reached wimbledon semis this year). He has beaten all the top 10 players (federer, ferrero, roddick, agassi, moya...) at least once.
He's not as famous as Federer and Marat but he's a very talented guy and has a lot of fans around the world.
So do you think he can take part in the battle ?

AgassiFan
02-23-2004, 10:13 PM
<<<<<<<<<<<,Everybody says in this thread that Marat and Federer are the best.
Maybe they are.>>>>>>>>>

I personally think Federer is the best and most talented.

But I don't think Marat is the best. I think Agassi, Roddick, Hewitt, Baldmandian and Ferrero will be giving him A LOT of trouble in the upcoming years, and at Marat's height and reckless, taxing style of play, even if her manages to stay healthy (he won't), at 24, he has MAYBE 3-4 years left of "prime" tennis.

Most tennis players in the last 5-10 years, were all burned by 27-28yo. Baseliners anyway.

LCeh
02-23-2004, 11:07 PM
I personally think Federer is the best and most talented.

But I don't think Marat is the best. I think Agassi, Roddick, Hewitt, Baldmandian and Ferrero will be giving him A LOT of trouble in the upcoming years, and at Marat's height and reckless, taxing style of play, even if her manages to stay healthy (he won't), at 24, he has MAYBE 3-4 years left of "prime" tennis.

I agree. I mean, we can say Marat wasn't playing his best tennis in AO final, but IMO there really wasn't much he could do against Roger. His serves were consistantly hit back, DEEP; his pace was constantly slowed down by Roger's slice, and Roger was just hitting winners left and right. Also, his matches vs. Agassi, Roddick, and Martin were all 5 setters, which means they were all pretty close game, and if he has to constantly play that many games to get into the final, he will be exhausted every time. He played more than 300 games at this year's AO, and it certainly isn't very good for a player his size. I think he will be having a lot of trouble as the year continues.