Armchair Analysis: The Birth of a Bandwagon..... [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Armchair Analysis: The Birth of a Bandwagon.....

sigmagirl91
03-16-2006, 12:44 AM
I just find today's loss in IW right shocking, considering he has practically a "gimme" draw (save Safin or Nieminen, of course). I don't know what happened in that match other than what can be attributed to "mental vacation", but this is not the typical mentality of a top 3 player.

My biggest gripe about David, is that he's not in shape. Although he doesn't appear to get tired during his matches (if he does, he puts on a great show), he doesn't get the job done when he needs to. Case in point: the AO semi against Baghdatis. That match was in his hands, but we later learn that he lost it due to an injury. Face it, most of his injuries are due to poor conditioning, and the sooner he takes care of that problem, the better.

Julio1974
03-16-2006, 01:29 AM
I couldn't watch the match because I was at work until very late. I'm so shocked too. I agree with you: this is not the mentality of a top 3 player. I like David a lot but I'm not sure whether he is willing to make the effort to be a consistent top 3 or top 5 player.

sigmagirl91
03-16-2006, 01:32 AM
I couldn't watch the match because I was at work until very late. I'm so shocked too. I agree with you: this is not the mentality of a top 3 player. I like David a lot but I'm not sure whether he is willing to make the effort to be a consistent top 3 or top 5 player.

And that's a sad commentary for someone who obviously has the talent to make it far in the game. I don't understand why he doesn't treat it as seriously as he should. He chose this game....and I would think, by that choice alone, he would make a 100% commitment to it.

zan
03-16-2006, 01:53 AM
Couldn't agree more. I spoke to linsemen in LV who said David is physically fit even though he's out of shape. So, if he's put some time in at the gym and decide he really wanted to play this game, we might see the results. There are guys breathing down his throat. Ivan, James Blake to name two. I'd really hate to see David drop out of the top 10, but if he keeps up like this, he will.

And to think, I was just booking my tix to Shanghai for the Masters Cup!

sigmagirl91
03-16-2006, 01:54 AM
Couldn't agree more. I spoke to linsemen in LV who said David is physically fit even though he's out of shape. So, if he's put some time in at the gym and decide he really wanted to play this game, we might see the results. There are guys breathing down his throat. Ivan, James Blake to name two. I'd really hate to see David drop out of the top 10, but if he keeps up like this, he will.

And to think, I was just booking my tix to Shanghai for the Masters Cup!


Physically fit and out of shape are oxymorons. You can't be fit and be out of shape...it's just not logical.

justClaudia
03-16-2006, 01:55 AM
And that's a sad commentary for someone who obviously has the talent to make it far in the game. I don't understand why he doesn't treat it as seriously as he should. He chose this game....and I would think, by that choice alone, he would make a 100% commitment to it.
I believe he is commited to the game, which is the job that he chose for himself after all. But I don't know what happens to him sometimes. Looks like, he wants to be anywhere but in that tennis court. It is frustating to watch. But I do believe that David is 100% commited to his tennis.

sigmagirl91
03-16-2006, 01:57 AM
I believe he is commited to the game, which is the job that he chose for himself after all. But I don't know what happens to him sometimes. Looks like, he wants to be anywhere but in that tennis court. It is frustating to watch. But I do believe that David is 100% commited to his tennis.

I'm sorry to say this, but 100% commitment means that all distractions are put aside, and the match in progress is the sole focus. Those mental walkabouts he takes don't signify 100% commitment to me.

justClaudia
03-16-2006, 01:59 AM
Couldn't agree more. I spoke to linsemen in LV who said David is physically fit even though he's out of shape. So, if he's put some time in at the gym and decide he really wanted to play this game, we might see the results. There are guys breathing down his throat. Ivan, James Blake to name two. I'd really hate to see David drop out of the top 10, but if he keeps up like this, he will.

And to think, I was just booking my tix to Shanghai for the Masters Cup!

Zan, it's not like the season is over rigth about now. IW is only the first masters series event of the year. And if you really know David, then you should know how he is full of surprises. I mean who would expect him to win Shangaii last year? And please don't tell me that Fed was not at 100% cause I'm fed up with that.............. :o

sigmagirl91
03-16-2006, 02:01 AM
I agree with Claudia, Zan. Don't give up just yet.....the season is still young. But if David continues along this path, then he won't be able to defend Shanghai.

justClaudia
03-16-2006, 02:03 AM
I'm sorry to say this, but 100% commitment means that all distractions are put aside, and the match in progress is the sole focus. Those mental walkabouts he takes don't signify 100% commitment to me.

I know Tiff. I know that and agree. But come on, I want to give him some credit, and believe that he actually is commited to his game. David frustrates me so much sometimes, that at least I want to have that to believe. Otherwise, why would he be here? Why would he be playing, if not to give all he has?

sigmagirl91
03-16-2006, 02:06 AM
I know Tiff. I know that and agree. But come on, I want to give him some credit, and believe that he actually is commited to his game. David frustrates me so much sometimes, that at least I want to have that to believe. Otherwise, why would he be here? Why would he be playing, if not to give all he has?

It's like I said when he lost that AO semi. David should be on another level now. The tourney win in Shanghai, while it wasn't a fluke, is the barometer by which his other results will be measured. It's no longer acceptable for him to continue losing random matches in the same fashion he's lost them before. Many other players (Ljubicic, for example) are becoming much more consistent in their results-and make no mistake about it...if David is not really, willing, or able to put in the 100% commitment the game demands of him, he will continue to lose matches he should win and forfeit opportunities to build upon his success.

justClaudia
03-16-2006, 02:13 AM
It's like I said when he lost that AO semi. David should be on another level now. The tourney win in Shanghai, while it wasn't a fluke, is the barometer by which his ther results will be measured. It's no longer acceptable for him to continue losing random matches in the same fashion he's lost them before. Many other players (Ljubicic, for example) are becoming much more consistent in their results-and make no mistake about it...if David is not really, willing, or able to put in the 100% commitment the game demands of him, he will continue to lose matches he should win and forfeit opportunities to build upon his success.
And because he knows it, that can also be a problem for him right now. David knows what everyone is expecting from him, and I'm sure that is stressfull.

But then again he has to be able to deal with the presure, otherwise what kind of athelete is he?

But yeah, I agree with what you said. David has to open his eyes, while it's time.

disturb3d
03-16-2006, 02:14 AM
After the tie-break, David was naturally being carried on momentum.
But then hit 3 double faults in his opening service game to grant the momentum to Paradorn.
Had the service game been steady, I really believe that Dave would have sealed the quarterfinal spot.

justClaudia
03-16-2006, 02:18 AM
It's always the serve, always. After loosing it, David is gone. :rolleyes:

sigmagirl91
03-16-2006, 02:19 AM
After the tie-break, David was naturally being carried on momentum.
But then hit 3 double faults in his opening service game to grant the momentum to Paradorn.
Had the service game been steady, I really believe that Dave would have sealed the quarterfinal spot.

Agreed...and that's a glaring problem in an otherwise solid game. It is believed that the serve of a tennis player can be likened to a baseball swing. If the mechanics are poor, then it doesn't matter what else you do....and until that area of his game is given the attention it's screaming out for, he will not achieve the success that he deserves.

sigmagirl91
03-16-2006, 02:20 AM
It's always the serve, always. After loosing it, David is gone. :rolleyes:

I don't know if we can put down a poor service game to nerves or lack of options, but it has to be something.

justClaudia
03-16-2006, 02:23 AM
I don't know if we can put down a poor service game to nerves or lack of options, but it has to be something.
I don't know, but are we really suposed to believe that his bad bad service is all because of nerves? I mean, how long as he been around.....? That excuse, I don't think it works for me anymore.

sigmagirl91
03-16-2006, 02:25 AM
I don't know, but are we really suposed to believe that his bad bad service is all because of nerves? I mean, how long as he been around.....? That excuse, I don't think it works for me anymore.

And it shouldn't. As long as David has been in the game, his serve should never really be an issue. He's a top ten player now, not a qualie; as such, the serve game should have gotten the attention commensurate with his improving results. That's usually what most players concentrate on.

justClaudia
03-16-2006, 02:33 AM
And it shouldn't. As long as David has been in the game, his serve should never really be an issue. He's a top ten player now, not a qualie; as such, the serve game should have gotten the attention commensurate with his improving results. That's usually what most players concentrate on.
But he is stuborn, and he knows it all. And that's why he haven't improved is serve yet, and that's also why Eduardo gave up on him.........and it's so frustating, that if it were me there, I would give up on him too. But because I'm here, I still dream that he will do it, one day.

sigmagirl91
03-16-2006, 02:37 AM
But he is stuborn, and he knows it all. And that's why he haven't improved is serve yet, and that's also why Eduardo gave up on him.........and it's so frustating, that if it were me there, I would give up on him too. But because I'm here, I still dream that he will do it, one day.

He can continue to wallow in self-made foolishness if he wants...he'll find that no one will be there to support him in it.

disturb3d
03-16-2006, 02:38 AM
I believe Dave has to better Andy by a single round if he is to stay in the top 3.
It's 50/50 in my books.

sigmagirl91
03-16-2006, 02:43 AM
I believe Dave has to better Andy by a single round if he is to stay in the top 3.
It's 50/50 in my books.

Yeah...and if Ivan wins IW, then the top 3 is no more.
As for Miami, it depends on the draw and who they end up meeting along the way.

justClaudia
03-16-2006, 02:44 AM
He can continue to wallow in self-made foolishness if he wants...he'll find that no one will be there to support him in it.
I was thinking, do I slap him in the face? Do I kick his ass? Or do I do both, when he comes here? :lol:


If of course, cause I'm still not very sure if he is really coming. I heard some things other day, that made me wonder.....let's see.

sigmagirl91
03-16-2006, 02:46 AM
I was thinking, do I slap him in the face? Do I kick his ass? Or do I do both, when he comes here? :lol:


If of course, cause I'm still not very sure if he is really coming. I heard some things other day, that made me wonder.....let's see.

You can do all of the above-that is, if he does show up.
And...what did you hear that made you doubt he would make an appearance in Estoril?

justClaudia
03-16-2006, 02:55 AM
My Father on the phone, to someone from the organisation. I haven't spoke to my Dad yet, so I can be very very wrong (fingers crossed). Hopefully Sunday he will clear my suspicions.

Okay but he said, Clau will be disapointed...so that's why I'm wondering.

sigmagirl91
03-16-2006, 02:57 AM
Could be something else...maybe another one of your favorites is not going to play there.

justClaudia
03-16-2006, 03:01 AM
Hopefully. I tried to call some other person, but he was busy and couldn't talk. I know for a fact, that he gave his word personally. So, again I want to believe in him.

sigmagirl91
03-16-2006, 03:03 AM
Hopefully. I tried to call some other person, but he was busy and couldn't talk. I know for a fact, that he gave his word personally. So, again I want to believe in him.

I guess we wait then, Clau.

justClaudia
03-16-2006, 03:07 AM
Sunday, lunchtime. That's all I'm waiting, because this has been killing me. :lol:

sigmagirl91
03-17-2006, 04:36 PM
Sunday, lunchtime. That's all I'm waiting, because this has been killing me. :lol:

Why not try and call again today? Or did you?

justClaudia
03-18-2006, 12:48 AM
Tiff, about that we were talking the other day, he is coming. I'm positive about it now.;) Davydenko, Marcos, and Andy Murray are also coming. Thrusday we will have the final names. But he's gonna be here.

sigmagirl91
03-18-2006, 03:20 AM
Tiff, about that we were talking the other day, he is coming. I'm positive about it now.;) Davydenko, Marcos, and Andy Murray are also coming. Thrusday we will have the final names. But he's gonna be here.

:D

sigmagirl91
03-25-2006, 04:58 AM
Geez, David....80 UE's. I can't explain how in the hell you pulled out a win with that stat. In any case, you've found a way. If this match is the measuring stick of your true form, then you need to put in a lot of work. I will commend you, however, on grinding out the win. You deserved it, but please....make it easier on yourself next time.

sigmagirl91
03-27-2007, 11:06 AM
Great time to resurrect this thread. I'm disappointed that, year after year, we're seeing the same shit (sorry about the off-color language, but it's appropriate here)-no forward movement, no GS prospects, blah, blah, blah...
By now, he should have had about 20 titles (at least 2 GS's out of that number) and running, but 5? This is not an acceptable result for a player of his calibre. We've talked about his "potential" many times, but that potential has not been realized, sadly. And it doesn't seem as if he cares.
That nonchalant, uncaring attitude bothers me more than the results themselves. Like someone said, when he begins losing to players ranked outside the top 100 on a consistent basis, then he should really think about what he wants to do in the game.

Right now, he looks lost-which, by all accounts, has been his attitude and posture since last August. We can excuse the unexpected illness and the attendant injury problems, but the lost matches that he should have won are mind-boggling to me. I fear that if he doesn't get his bearings back, he'll be done for.

gooner88
03-27-2007, 12:46 PM
Cordoba Rally 2013.

Seriously who knows. Who would've predicted that he would win the Masters in 2005? He doesn't play enough tournaments anyway, and 5 titles is simply not good enough for a player of his calibre. At this stage with his ranking slipping it would be good to play more smaller tournaments to get some confidence and a feel for the game back.

funa
03-27-2007, 02:49 PM
Hi, I cannot help commenting today. I was very dissapointed today's loss, but as I read how everyone's furious before me, I feel much better already. Thanks!

I couldn't watch the match live (which was fortunate, I think), but I just finished watching the replay on tennis channel. I don't think he was as bad as everyone's saying.

Yes, with his talent he could have been a better player, but his lack of ambition and his mental weakness is part of his talent too, and I think I have to accept it. Considering his weaknesses, I think he is doing relatively a good job. He was too good the first half of last year, because of masters cup magic, I guess. He is back to normal now. His usual position is in and out of top 10. I learned that I shouldn't expect more. I mean, if he doesn't care, why should I???

It could be frustrating to be his fan, but I am sure it is more exciting than to be Federer fan! How boring that could be!

bibi_s
03-27-2007, 05:03 PM
It's very well said that we make these analyses from our armchair; I mean we are in the position of spectators who can say whatever they want and whatever they feel. We can criticize David, because as fans we care how he performs. But what the situation is really, how is David feeling physically and mentally, what are the reasons for that, knows David only and maybe a few very close to him. Maybe we have to be patient and believe in our favorite. Let's hope that he'll pick himself up really soon. At least I very much hope so.

Schu
03-27-2007, 05:45 PM
We can all second guess how David thinks, how much he cares and how hard he trains, etc. but we don't REALLY know. Just because we see him in the media playing doesn't mean he's not working hard also.

I don't think his poor performances are not because he doesn't care - you can see how frustrated he is when he is playing poorly. I think his major weakness (besides his serve) is ALL MENTAL and its not a lack of caring but an inability to consistently perform under pressure (ie. not choke) and stay focused. Some people can handle it much better than others.

I agree that he could certainly train his mental game MUCH more but physically (besides his serve) he has the shots and does execute them. He can even serve well but doesn't have the confidence to do so under pressure.

As far as his conditioning - although he has some extra weight, I'd say he could hang with anyone in a 5 set match and often does wear his opponents out.

What's the answer - who knows but I think it's unfair of us to say David doesn't care and is not committed to tennis. He just chooses another way - a way he thinks is best for him. If he wasn't committed to tennis why would he be puttting himself through agony such as all the horrible looses of the last year. Then again I guess its still a pretty good life, especially if you don't have to work hard or care but you can just look at DAvid's face during one of those terrible matches and see that he does care.

funa
03-27-2007, 06:40 PM
I actually used to think maybe he would be more stable mentally at late 20s, but I am not sure. I've waited four years, and nothing much happened! He is still one of the great player, I enjoy watching him, and that is enough for me. He tends to do something amazing when I least expected.

justClaudia
03-28-2007, 01:31 AM
This thread has a year, Tiffany bumped it tonight, and ...the issues we were debating a year ago, are exactly the ones we are debating today. And how ironic is that?

And ..a year ago I was clueless if he was comming to Estoril, and today I am clueless as well.

But yes, I still have hope. After a good night of sleep and a good day, I am back on the hope-squad. :rolls:

sigmagirl91
05-05-2007, 11:39 AM
Oh well...no Rome, Hamburg, and maybe no RG! When is David coming back? Who knows?

justClaudia
05-05-2007, 09:14 PM
And when he comes back ...which David will come back?
The talented/fighter/winner David, or the I give a damn if loose in the first round, I give a damn about what y'all think, I know I can do this by myself, don't call me stuborn, I don't need a bloody coach ...which one?

And does the first one still exists at all? :lol:

I have no idea.

Seneca
05-05-2007, 09:57 PM
Oh, bloody hell. This bloke ain't coming back:

http://img2.menstennisforums.com/500/18_David_USO_2003.jpg

I've never seen such a natural pure tennis player gamewise as Dave, he lacks the innate athletism and body shape (he had that as a junior, though) that for example Safin possesses but what comes to intuitive match smarts and fluid groundstrokes David is second to none. His Wimbledon final sort of just breezed by me back in the day but at the end of season in 2002 and AO 2003 when he was whipping Federer around the court I finally saw the insane skill level this young blond kid has in his game. Shame he just lets it wither away like this.

At least he won't have the stress fractures and fatigue as excuses if/when he bothers to show back on the Tour. It's a testament to his skill level as a tennis player that even with this abysmal start of the season he' still 24th in the Race.

I'm rather ambivalent to David's activities besides his tennis but I still have a huge crush on his game and I'm pretty pissed at him for throwing his prime age as a player down the drain like this.

gooner88
05-05-2007, 10:13 PM
Oh, bloody hell. This bloke ain't coming back:

http://img2.menstennisforums.com/500/18_David_USO_2003.jpg

I've never seen such a natural pure tennis player gamewise as Dave, he lacks the innate athletism and body shape (he had that as a junior, though) that for example Safin possesses but what comes to intuitive match smarts and fluid groundstrokes David is second to none. His Wimbledon final sort of just breezed by me back in the day but at the end of season in 2002 and AO 2003 when he was whipping Federer around the court I finally saw the insane skill level this young blond kid has in his game. Shame he just lets it wither away like this.

At least he won't have the stress fractures and fatigue as excuses if/when he bothers to show back on the Tour. It's a testament to his skill level as a tennis player that even with this abysmal start of the season he' still 24th in the Race.

I'm rather ambivalent to David's activities besides his tennis but I still have a huge crush on his game and I'm pretty pissed at him for throwing his prime age as a player down the drain like this.

Great post. I agree with your thoughts about his game and his limitations. Apart from his serve, his movement around a tennis court has got worse in the last year or two. I think that comes back to fitness issues.
A fully committed Nalbo would be Top 5 easily, but he has other ideas.

wenty
05-06-2007, 05:27 AM
Maybe he'll bounce back in the hard court part of this season...after all, he doesnt have too many points to defend in the hard court tournaments.

sigmagirl91
05-06-2007, 09:40 AM
Maybe he'll bounce back in the hard court part of this season...after all, he doesnt have too many points to defend in the hard court tournaments.

I doubt it-seriously I do.

Hola Mr. SK
05-11-2007, 03:30 PM
the day when he realizes that his prize money is not enough for his rally team to develop any further...

wenty
05-12-2007, 05:01 AM
the day when he realizes that his prize money is not enough for his rally team to develop any further...

:lol:

sigmagirl91
07-02-2007, 06:15 PM
I just wonder if the stuff about him retiring at the end of the year is right. He has not specifically addressed this question when asked; instead, he's blowing it off. Is there something happening that no one knows about? Today's match gives us something to think about, right?

justClaudia
07-02-2007, 06:26 PM
let's deal with this later, like he seems to be doing, because I am honestly not ready to think of the tour without him.

today's match certainly makes one question, but I still think he is very young to even consider retirement.

he still has many tennis left in him. I believe that.
and I am ready to support a top20, top30 or even lower. just as long as I feel he is commited and enjoying the game. I have no problem with that.

sigmagirl91
12-06-2007, 11:25 PM
The 2007 season is officially in the books-save for some hit-and-giggle exhos going on in other places-and our David has claimed his piece of history in it.

For all intents and purposes, David was O-U-T, ready to retire, ready to kiss tennis goodbye (that's what we thought). As we, and everyone else on MTF, would learn, you never count a person out-no matter how down they look or even are at the moment. Even though David's ranking had fallen further than many of us here would have liked, he came back.

No one here gave him a chance in hell of making a significant dent in the indoor season. After all, he did not advance past the quarterfinals of any tournament he played this year. So, why would we think he'd do any better? Just write him off as fat, lazy, and useless....that was the prevailing logic, and I wonder if anyone here had done the same thing.

By the time the indoor season commenced, no one was talking about David-not even WE were talking about him, as evidenced by the dearth of posts in this forum. Up until Madrid, his name was practically off the radar. In fact, the second round of that very tournament almost saw him crash and burn in the same predictable fashion that his other results this year bore out. He was down 6-4 4-0 to Berdych before he pulled off the impossible...before he eeked out the win that would reverse his fortunes.

He would go on to claim wins against the top three players (only the third player to do so)in quick succession on his way to the Madrid crown..then, just as predictably, he crashed out in Basel to Wawrinka in the opening round. Just to show us that Madrid was not a fluke, he came back strong in Paris, defeating the top-ranked Federer again to even their series at 8-8 and Nadal in the final to claim his second Masters crown.

What does that mean for us? A lot because no player this year ever defeated the top two players in successive Masters series tournaments prior to David's having done so, and because David is the second player to claim the Madrid and Paris Masters series tournaments in the same year. After the wins were completed, and the trophies handed out, David had ascended the rankings and climbed back into the top ten again, at #9-earning an alternate spot to Shanghai. So many posters wanted other players to drop out so that David could play Shanghai...and I myself wondered, had David gotten the chance to compete there once more, how much damage he could have done. Judging from his Madrid and Paris results, his chances there looked very good. He very well could have lifted another Masters Cup trophy. Alas, he did not go...and that may have been just as well too.


The bandwagon effect that these wins generated was both curious and disturbing, looking at it from a fan perspective. I always thought that David was not a bandwagon-type player, but I was wrong...boy was I wrong! The bandwagon for David is so strong, that he's even in second place for Favorite Player of the Year 2007. So, if you haven't voted in the poll for David, please do so now. Look under the London draw.

In closing, why are we just now "knowing" David's full name-and is THAT his full name? Any thoughts?