What will Lleyton Hewitt's 2004 year-end rank be? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

What will Lleyton Hewitt's 2004 year-end rank be?

JennyS
12-08-2003, 12:28 AM
What do you predict will be Lleyton Hewitt's year-end rank in 2004?

WyverN
12-08-2003, 12:38 AM
About 8th.

Roland
12-08-2003, 12:59 AM
I'm thinking in the 5 to 9 range.
He can make points any time during the year since he has little to defend.

MisterQ
12-08-2003, 02:19 AM
I voted for lower than five, but I think he'll be in the top ten.

J. Corwin
12-08-2003, 02:29 AM
I voted for lower than 5 as well. I think he'll definitely be in top 10 and I wouldn't be shocked if he were to be in top 5.

FanOfHewitt
12-08-2003, 03:34 AM
If Hewitt decides to play a full year (and has no injuries) he will walk into the top 5 by virtue of having hardly any points to defend.

I am a little surprised that people have written him off so quickly after being back to back No.1 in 2001-2002.

His last three competitve matches (2 against Ferrero and 1 against Federer) indicate to me that if he wants it bad enough, he can still compete with and even top the best of them. He is still the mentally strongest player on tour when engaged in a dog fight.

Barring injuries or a less than full schedule, I have little doubt that he will be top 5. Whereabouts in the top 5 depends on how focused he remains and how much he wants it.

tripthemighty
12-08-2003, 02:11 PM
I lean more toward seeing Lleyton in the top 5 by year-end because of the same thing FanOfHewitt said. He has so little to defend, meaning he has everything to win. And I do think he has the mentality of a top 5 player, he just lost that last year. In my opinion, last season was more of a cycle. He was injured - he played poorly - he lost ranking - he became demotivated - so he played even more poorly. But in light of what has happened concerning the Davis Cup, I see him getting back into the game. He's proved to himself and to the world that he can do anything he commits himself to.

WyverN
12-08-2003, 02:25 PM
Hewitt has done nothing phenomenal.
A scrape through against JC on grass is not very impressive and the Federer match happens once in a decade.

Fancy Hewitt continuing winning matches this way regularly?

Experimentee
12-08-2003, 03:02 PM
Probably lower than 5.

FanOfHewitt
12-08-2003, 06:14 PM
Hewitt has done nothing phenomenal.
A scrape through against JC on grass is not very impressive and the Federer match happens once in a decade.

Fancy Hewitt continuing winning matches this way regularly?

WyverN did you actually see the matches against JCF and RF? I don't believe you'd continue to hold your opinion if you did.

Ferrero played one hell of a match in the Davis Cup agaisnt Hewitt. This wasn't the disinterested JCF that showed up to the Masters Cup. He was mentally jacked up for this one. It was one of his best matches for the year.

I also think you are discrediting both Ferrero and Hewitt by sighting the surface (grass) as being an issue. Firstly, Ferrero is not just a stereotypical claycourter. He can play on all surfaces. Secondly Hewitt does not really have an advantage on grass. He doesn't volley and his serve is pretty shithouse. If anyone exploited the surface it was JCF with his tremendous kick serves.

Oh, and by the way, Hewitt beat Ferrero having had only 1 competitve match in the last 3 months!

As for the Federer match, anybody who can claw his way back from the brink of extinction and topple a class act like Federer must be doing something right. And it wasn't as if Federer piked it. Federer remained competitive even in the last set where he got starched, and he was still pulling out winners all throughout the set. Hewitt just beat him with his mind, an asset of his which I think is being underestimated.

If you are waiting for Hewitt to blow someone off the court before you give him credit well that's never going to happen. That's not the nature of the beast. Hewitt thrives on adversity and reveals his greatness in dire circumstances. Put Hewitt in a closely contested match against any of the top players and I know who I'd be backing to win.

Yashirobai
12-08-2003, 06:39 PM
I say he'll be worse than Ferrero, Federer, and Roddick, so I voted for #4, but it could be 5 or lower (never 1,2 o 3)

Crazy_Fool
12-08-2003, 06:49 PM
well said fanofhewitt :worship: :worship: :worship:

top 5 is gonna be difficult but top 10 easily

TheBoiledEgg
12-08-2003, 07:04 PM
Top 5 or close to it. he's too good a player NOT to make fun of again ;) :tape: so we need the PPCT alive and kicking for 2004 ;)

Winston's Human
12-08-2003, 09:40 PM
Hewitt: #6

After Federer, Roddick, Coria, Ferrero and Nalbandian.

WyverN
12-08-2003, 10:18 PM
It was one of his best matches for the year.

I also think you are discrediting both Ferrero and Hewitt by sighting the surface (grass) as being an issue. Firstly, Ferrero is not just a stereotypical claycourter. He can play on all surfaces. Secondly Hewitt does not really have an advantage on grass. He doesn't volley and his serve is pretty shithouse. If anyone exploited the surface it was JCF with his tremendous kick serves.


I know Ferrero is a all court player but he is not one of the elite players on grass and is far better on clay. Hewitt would certainly have an advantage of grass as he has been practicing on it for more then 2 months.

Not playing for a while is no disadvantage for professional tennis players (unless they were injured). Look at Agassi, had 2/3 months off and made the finals of Houston.


As for the Federer match, anybody who can claw his way back from the brink of extinction and topple a class act like Federer must be doing something right. And it wasn't as if Federer piked it. Federer remained competitive even in the last set where he got starched, and he was still pulling out winners all throughout the set. Hewitt just beat him with his mind, an asset of his which I think is being underestimated.


Federer is a mentally weak player, as soon as he choked away the third set he lost his confidence and did not play that well. In the 5th set he got plain tired although that is no excuse.


If you are waiting for Hewitt to blow someone off the court before you give him credit well that's never going to happen.

Actually I am waiting for Hewitt to win another slam before I gave him credit. Something I predicted would not happen again after the year 2002.

joske
12-08-2003, 10:26 PM
Ï voted 5 or lower, but I guess he can definitely make it back to the top 10 with his talent and that huge amount of points he does not have to defend from this year (as opposed to the current top 5 or 10)..

Billabong
12-08-2003, 11:37 PM
I think Lleyton will be confident next year after his Davis Cup win, so I expect him to be at #5, behind the present top-4...

Leo
12-09-2003, 12:43 AM
Hewitt has done nothing phenomenal.
A scrape through against JC on grass is not very impressive and the Federer match happens once in a decade.

Fancy Hewitt continuing winning matches this way regularly?

1) A win over Federer only once in a decade? How about 7 times in four years. Face it, Hewitt owns him.

2) Yes, I do fancy Hewitt winning tight matches against the other young balls. Why? Because he is more competitive than most of them and mentally stronger than all of them.

I voted #5 but I wouldn't be surprised if he finished as high as #2 behind Federer.

JennyS
12-09-2003, 01:35 AM
I have a feeling Lleyton will have a very good year. If he plays at least 17 or 18 tournaments, I think he has a good chance to be in the top 5. I think he will do well at the AO, and he seems pretty serious about trying to win the tournament.

WyverN
12-09-2003, 03:12 AM
1) A win over Federer only once in a decade? How about 7 times in four years. Face it, Hewitt owns him.



I am talking about the new Federer, Hewitt reached his peak at an earlier age then Federer. I expect Roger to narrow that head to head just as he will against Nalbandian.


2) Yes, I do fancy Hewitt winning tight matches against the other young balls. Why? Because he is more competitive than most of them and mentally stronger than all of them.


Eventually mental strength and speed don't cut it anymore. I predict Hewitt won't make a slam semi next year, hopefully after that a few more people will have doubts about him.

FanOfHewitt
12-09-2003, 04:05 AM
I am talking about the new Federer, Hewitt reached his peak at an earlier age then Federer. I expect Roger to narrow that head to head just as he will against Nalbandian.

You mean the new improved mentally weak choking Federer? Your words, not mine.


Eventually mental strength and speed don't cut it anymore. I predict Hewitt won't make a slam semi next year, hopefully after that a few more people will have doubts about him.

I think you are totally misconstruing Hewitt if you think he is going to head down a similar path to say a Chang, who I think you are comparing him with.

Chang got burned out because he simply had no other game plan than "ball retrieval". He was powerless to redirect a point during play and his fate remained in the hands of the opposing player throughout his whole career. I dont think this is quite the case with Lleyton. Hewitt is more technically sound than Chang and is able to work his opponents from left to right from the baseline. My point is that he can give as good as he can get when it comes to being forced to work for a point and he doesn't have to go to the lengths Chang did to win points. As his strength increases in years to come I expect this ability to only increase, not decline. If you saw Hewitt's game against Juan Carlos Ferrero in the Davis Cup, Hewitt was actually dictating terms and moving Ferrero around the court more than he was moving himself.

He was even working Federer around the court and forcing him to defend in the latter stages of their Davis Cup match. It was not as if Roger had a mental breakdown and started spraying balls all over the place. His unforced error count remained relatively low. It was just that he got tired from being forced to work for his points, and you have to give Hewitt credit for putting him in such a position.

As for you call on mental strength not being able to cut it anymore, I disagree. Mental strength will ALWAYS be a huge factor in deciding matches between the elite players. Very little actually separates them and a mental edge is a great advantage to have.

I will agree with you that if Hewitt's speed diminishes over the years then he will lose his edge. However, barring injuries, I dont see why Hewitt should lose any leg speed until he is at least late in his twenties. Unlike Chang he does not seem to have the body type that will see him burdened with unecessary bulk and he seems to have incredible endurance, more than Chang ever had. He is still a string beam and i can't see that changing much. As of yet I haven't noticed any diminishing court speed due to any attrition over matches. But it could eventually happen.

But anyways, we shall see. The next 12 months should be interesting...

WyverN
12-09-2003, 04:21 AM
I think you are totally misconstruing Hewitt if you think he is going to head down a similar path to say a Chang, who I think you are comparing him with.


Yes I think he will


Chang got burned out because he simply had no other game plan than "ball retrieval". He was powerless to redirect a point during play and his fate remained in the hands of the opposing player throughout his whole career. I dont think this is quite the case with Lleyton. Hewitt is more technically sound than Chang and is able to work his opponents from left to right from the baseline.


I see Hewitt as a weak version of Nalbandian, the same sort of ball retrieving tactics only Nalbandian can hit more winners of the ground.




If you saw Hewitt's game against Juan Carlos Ferrero in the Davis Cup, Hewitt was actually dictating terms and moving Ferrero around the court more than he was moving himself.


Lets see him dictate Ferrero on clay. Hewitt didn't quite dictate Ferrero at the US open did he?


It was just that he got tired from being forced to work for his points, and you have to give Hewitt credit for putting him in such a position.


Tired because it was his 13th set in 3 days.


As for you call on mental strength not being able to cut it anymore, I disagree. Mental strength will ALWAYS be a huge factor in deciding matches between the elite players. Very little actually separates them and a mental edge is a great advantage to have.


Hewitt had mental strength far beyond his years but as the other younger guys mature their mental strength will improve and Hewitt wont have an edge on them anymore. Agassi was very mentally weak early in his career yet improved that greatly when he matured (FO 1999 final).


I will agree with you that if Hewitt's speed diminishes over the years then he will lose his edge. However, barring injuries, I dont see why Hewitt should lose any leg speed until he is at least late in his twenties. Unlike Chang he does not seem to have the body type that will see him burdened with unecessary bulk and he seems to have incredible endurance, more than Chang ever had. He is still a string beam and i can't see that changing much. As of yet I haven't noticed any diminishing court speed due to any attrition over matches. But it could eventually happen.


A player begins to lose some speed at around 26, I can see him lingering around the top 10 until then but I don't believe he will be winning any more slams as with Hewitt's game he has to be playing 100% otherwise he can lose to just about anyone, with the new generation of tennis players finally playing to their potential I don't see Hewitt's game holding up through 7 tough matches in a slam. Just like Chang regularly made quarters/semis even finals but would eventually come up against another top player and lose.

azza
12-09-2003, 06:15 AM
1 :banana:

Chloe le Bopper
12-09-2003, 06:28 AM
Does he still have any petty feuds with the ATP going on? Is he planning on playing a schedule "focussed on the majors", which results in him hardly playing ever and losing to Karlovic and Robredo when he does?

If he's going to stop being ridiculous, I imagine that he'll get into the top 5 again.

FanOfHewitt
12-09-2003, 06:44 AM
I see Hewitt as a weak version of Nalbandian, the same sort of ball retrieving tactics only Nalbandian can hit more winners of the ground.

I see Nalbandian as a stronger yet slower version of Hewitt whose game is a little bit more one dimensional than Hewitt's. I think Hewitt has more shots in his bag of tricks than Nalbandian does.


Lets see him dictate Ferrero on clay. Hewitt didn't quite dictate Ferrero at the US open did he?

He'll never be better on clay than Ferrero. As for the US Open, that match could have gone either way before Hewitt got injured. And bare in mind that that was the best Ferrero had ever looked on a hardcourt. He came out the next day and played at a little lesser standard against Andre and still demolished him. I dont think Ferrero will be consistently playing even at this standard on hard courts throughout his career.

Anyway I'm not confidently arguing that Hewitt is better than guys like Ferrero and Federer, I just think he belongs up there with them, and shouldn't be considered an inferior player in comparison to them.



Hewitt had mental strength far beyond his years but as the other younger guys mature their mental strength will improve and Hewitt wont have an edge on them anymore. Agassi was very mentally weak early in his career yet improved that greatly when he matured (FO 1999 final).

This remains to be seen. What's to say Hewitt doesn't become mentally stronger too though?



A player begins to lose some speed at around 26, I can see him lingering around the top 10 until then but I don't believe he will be winning any more slams as with Hewitt's game he has to be playing 100% otherwise he can lose to just about anyone, with the new generation of tennis players finally playing to their potential I don't see Hewitt's game holding up through 7 tough matches in a slam. Just like Chang regularly made quarters/semis even finals but would eventually come up against another top player and lose.

From what I have seen so far Hewitt has seemed to play better as tournaments have gone on. I think his endurance is world class. Chang's wasn't. Whilst he was fast around the court he didnt have the best endurance.

TennisLurker
12-09-2003, 01:13 PM
I see Nalbandian as a stronger yet slower version of Hewitt whose game is a little bit more one dimensional than Hewitt's. I think Hewitt has more shots in his bag of tricks than Nalbandian does.



Chang's wasn't. Whilst he was fast around the court he didnt have the best endurance.

Nalbandian has more variety in his shots than Hewitt, by far, and Chang was a Muster'like machine.

He didnt get tired in 5 set matches.

Riley Finn
12-09-2003, 08:26 PM
I see Nalbandian as a stronger yet slower version of Hewitt whose game is a little bit more one dimensional than Hewitt's. I think Hewitt has more shots in his bag of tricks than Nalbandian does.



so nice to see Heewee fans trying to catch up with Dick's

JeLuliA88
12-10-2003, 09:05 AM
5-10... with the likes of Federer, Ferrero and Roddick, there's no chance of him breaking into the top 3. After that there's agassi, coria and many more, so where exactly would Lleyton fit into??? I think most likely 8 or 9, but personally i would love it if he just dropped off the face of the planet and never came back!

tennischick
12-10-2003, 10:08 AM
it depends...on whether he decides to concentrate on tennis or on fighting the ATP, and whether he links up with the right coach who can help him to remain focused. that said, i can see him in the Top 10 but not the Top 5. a defensive type of play will only take yoou so far for so long before it pans out.

Virgil
12-10-2003, 10:42 PM
5-10... with the likes of Federer, Ferrero and Roddick, there's no chance of him breaking into the top 3. After that there's agassi, coria and many more, so where exactly would Lleyton fit into??? I think most likely 8 or 9, but personally i would love it if he just dropped off the face of the planet and never came back!

Wow, that's alot venom spewed at someone you don't even know personally. Unless I'm mistaken and you do know him personally?

FanOfHewitt
12-11-2003, 02:12 AM
5-10... with the likes of Federer, Ferrero and Roddick, there's no chance of him breaking into the top 3. After that there's agassi, coria and many more, so where exactly would Lleyton fit into??? I think most likely 8 or 9, but personally i would love it if he just dropped off the face of the planet and never came back!

With the likes of Federer (who he has a 7-2 record against), Ferrero (who he has a 4-3 record against) and Roddick (who he has a 3-0 record against) I think there is a chance of him breaking into the top 3. After that there is Agassi (who he has a 4-3 record agaisnt), Coria (who he has a 1-0 record agaisnt) and many more (who he has trounced, including Nalbandian) so where exactly would Lleyton fit into? Top 5 in my opinion.

Jazzy
12-11-2003, 02:16 AM
i think he would make it to the top ten next year, but then u look at some of the good players that poped out this year, you never no. my opinon - probably between 5 to 10 :)

WyverN
12-11-2003, 06:41 AM
With the likes of Federer (who he has a 7-2 record against), Ferrero (who he has a 4-3 record against) and Roddick (who he has a 3-0 record against) I think there is a chance of him breaking into the top 3. After that there is Agassi (who he has a 4-3 record agaisnt), Coria (who he has a 1-0 record agaisnt) and many more (who he has trounced, including Nalbandian) so where exactly would Lleyton fit into? Top 5 in my opinion.


You can quote me on this later but Hewitt will not be in the top 5 next year. I gurantee it.

CmonAussie
12-11-2003, 02:07 PM
I found all this so amusing because it seems that apart from a few loyal Hewitt Fans the rest of the Internet communicating tennis"wanabe experts"^have a huge case of denial!!
Why is it that so many are adament about Hewitt`s demise and fail to even give him credit for what he`s achieved so far??
Lleyton always gets the last laugh because people have been telling him he couldn`t beat the big guys ever since he was playing Juniours back in Adelaide. Did he care? No~ simply decided to let his results do the talking & after one of the most tumultuous years in his career with ATP headaches, coach splits, focus on girlfriends GS ambitions his record stands on it`s own*!!!
Age 22; GS=2; TMC=2; TMS=2; DC=2; YE No.1=2; TTW=19
Also won tournaments on all surfaces, holds leading career Head-to-Head over: Federer, Roddick, Ferero, Safin, Agassi, Rafter, Sampras, Coria, Nalbandian, Kuerten....and everyone except Moya.

He doesn`t care that there`s a conspiracy to underate him because of his unorthodox style and quirky character!.
At the end of the day he`s already done a million times more than he, his family, & tennis experts ever expected or predicted-->if he retired tomorrow then he`s going down in history as one of the gutsiest most confounding athletes in sport & a champ who listens to Rocky music.
Having said all that I`m sure he`s learnt a few harsh lessons from 2003 season which will make him a tougher nut to crack in 2004; he will unquestionably do what ever it takes to win another slam & even stated that he`s aiming to get back to No.1^ maybe he`ll fall short of that goal but judging by his previous efforts I`m sure he`ll atleast come close.(No.3 in O4 should be in the ballpark).
Right now as I debate on Hewitt`s behalf I see he`s having a laugh on the Golf Course caddying for Norman[wonder if the other big guns in world tennis would accept to humbly carry someons bag?!).

Chloe le Bopper
12-11-2003, 03:22 PM
Also won tournaments on all surfaces, holds leading career Head-to-Head over: Federer, Roddick, Ferero, Safin, Agassi, Rafter, Sampras, Coria, Nalbandian, Kuerten....and everyone except Moya.

And Escude :devil:

His only clay tournament was Delray Beach in 1999... I wouldn't get too excited about that one ;) As far as I know he's never won on carpet.

Chloe le Bopper
12-11-2003, 03:23 PM
He doesn`t care that there`s a conspiracy to underate him because of his unorthodox style and quirky character!.

Uh, yes. A conspiracy. That's it. Because his game is just so "unorthodox" and all.

Deboogle!.
12-11-2003, 03:38 PM
More than just Lleyton's fans will give him credit. I've seen it on this board and also many other places. I like Lleyton but I wouldn't call myself a "dedicated loyal fan" or anything. he's just the type, like an Andy or whatever, that will repel some people away. Almost anyone with a really strong outgoing personality who puts it all out there is going to have detractors. So what?

CmonAussie
12-11-2003, 03:40 PM
Thanks Rebecca. Also sorry I miss spelt your Champ`s name~ Ferrero is ofcourse one of the big guns!!
I tried to forget Escude but quite right about him,. that Davis Cup Final in 01 was Lleyton`s most disappointing loss.
I say #conspiracy# tongue in cheek, but certainly there is a large number of tennis critics that don`t give Hewitt recognition for what he`s achieved in the game.
"Unorthodox"- well former greats like Becker have said that Hewitt is perhaps the most"defensive and conservative shot-maker" to ever reach No.1.
Also Lleyton is the shortest Grand Slam winning No.1 since Jimmy Connors. Basically Hewitt bucked the trend,~by counter-punching his way to the top. However because of his overly enthusiastic"C`mons" I think some people have been peeved from the outset~ especially when he found a way to win big time!!
I`m really excited about 2004 because we`ve got 5 young guys who can battle out for the big prizes: Federer, Roddick, Ferrero, Safin and naturally Rocky Llegs..

joske
12-11-2003, 03:54 PM
Uh, yes. A conspiracy. That's it. Because his game is just so "unorthodox" and all.

:haha: *BIG smile over here* :)

Chloe le Bopper
12-11-2003, 06:21 PM
Thanks Rebecca. Also sorry I miss spelt your Champ`s name~ Ferrero is ofcourse one of the big guns!!
I tried to forget Escude but quite right about him,. that Davis Cup Final in 01 was Lleyton`s most disappointing loss.
I say #conspiracy# tongue in cheek, but certainly there is a large number of tennis critics that don`t give Hewitt recognition for what he`s achieved in the game.
"Unorthodox"- well former greats like Becker have said that Hewitt is perhaps the most"defensive and conservative shot-maker" to ever reach No.1.
Also Lleyton is the shortest Grand Slam winning No.1 since Jimmy Connors. Basically Hewitt bucked the trend,~by counter-punching his way to the top. However because of his overly enthusiastic"C`mons" I think some people have been peeved from the outset~ especially when he found a way to win big time!!
I`m really excited about 2004 because we`ve got 5 young guys who can battle out for the big prizes: Federer, Roddick, Ferrero, Safin and naturally Rocky Llegs..
I don't disagree that Hewitt doesn't get enough credit... but sometimes I think that people view simple opinions regarding him as depreciating, when they aren't really.... for example, I don't think he's one of the top 5 talents on tour - physically, that is. Mentally he's the best. However, I consider it a compliment to say that... he's made the most of what talent he does have; more than players who are widely regarded as greater players have, that is for sure.

Regardless... I'm not going to pretend that he doesn't bother me sometimes ;) But I hope to see him back fighting it out in the later stages of the tournaments again next year.

I'm fond of the Hewitt-Ferrero "rivalry" that nobody seems to care about :p

joske
12-11-2003, 06:27 PM
I'm fond of the Hewitt-Ferrero "rivalry" that nobody seems to care about

Oh no no no no no :p If they would play each other, I wouldn't know who to cheer for.. Well, I do actually, Ferrero of course *lol* but still.. I don't want Hewitt to lose either.. But knowing their talents, they'll probably bring some great tennis if they'd play against each other.. :D

J. Corwin
12-12-2003, 10:15 PM
I'm interested in their rivalry as well.

heya
12-14-2003, 01:46 PM
LMAO

joske
12-15-2003, 10:07 AM
all love over here baby ;) hehe

Hagar
12-15-2003, 03:14 PM
Top 10 is surely possible. If he wins a Slam, top 5. It just depends on how much he wants it (I hope he wants the Australian very much).

misyou25
12-15-2003, 03:19 PM
I don't think Lleyton wants to be number one or so. He feels good like now. But when he wants, he'll be number one fro sure!

Tingu
12-17-2003, 03:50 AM
I think he will probably be in the top ten but not top 5

WyverN
12-17-2003, 07:17 AM
I don't think Lleyton wants to be number one or so. He feels good like now. But when he wants, he'll be number one fro sure!

This has to be one of the stupidest things ever posted on these forums

Leo
12-21-2003, 03:00 AM
This has to be one of the stupidest things ever posted on these forums

Well maybe she isn't fluent in English. Jeez. :rolleyes:

Fedex
12-24-2003, 12:04 AM
Possibly in top ten, but not top 5. There are a lot of good players out there. For instance David Nalbandian. He didnt win a single title in 2003 yet he still made the Masters Cup. I can still se many good years for him incuding slams.

star
12-24-2003, 12:23 AM
Hewitt is going to have some of the same difficulties that face Safin. It's tough to be away from the game for a period of time and get back to the same level.

Has anyone actually done that? Who was away from the game for a long period of time and came back to play at the same level?

Lisbeth
12-25-2003, 01:49 AM
Agassi had a much bigger slide than Hewitt and actually came back better, I think.

Others such as Ivanesivic and Krajicek have come back from years off to win Wimbeldon but have not maintained the consistency.

I think the field is tougher now and probably no-one will hold #1 for a fully year for a long time, but anyone who watched Lleyton play Davis Cup this year can tell you that he might have played less but the form is still there at least some of the time.

WyverN
12-25-2003, 02:12 AM
Agassi had a much bigger slide than Hewitt and actually came back better, I think.



The difference is that Agassi is one of the all time great players.

Deboogle!.
12-25-2003, 03:03 AM
The difference is that Agassi is one of the all time great players.


uhh but when he had his slide, that wasn't yet apparent. Considering Lleyton is only 22, it is IMPOSSIBLE to say that he WON'T become one of the all-time greats. Just as the reverse would be impossible as well - you can't say he WILL become one of the all-time greats either. but considering he could play for 10 more years, it's hard to say what he will or will not do, just as it's the same for all of the New Balls and similar players.

J. Corwin
12-25-2003, 03:06 AM
uhh but when he had his slide, that wasn't yet apparent. Considering Lleyton is only 22, it is IMPOSSIBLE to say that he WON'T become one of the all-time greats. Just as the reverse would be impossible as well - you can't say he WILL become one of the all-time greats either. but considering he could play for 10 more years, it's hard to say what he will or will not do, just as it's the same for all of the New Balls and similar players.

Exactly.

WyverN
12-25-2003, 03:36 AM
uhh but when he had his slide, that wasn't yet apparent. Considering Lleyton is only 22, it is IMPOSSIBLE to say that he WON'T become one of the all-time greats.

Maybe because it is painfully obvious Hewitt doesn't have the talent/game to be an all time great. Most tennis experts consider he has overachieved relative to his talent already.

Andre on the other hand was labeled as a massive underachiever up until 1999 when he finally began to fulfill some of his potential, no one was surprised when he began to win slams again and ever during his dark years most tennis experts did not write him of.

FanOfHewitt
12-25-2003, 09:13 AM
Maybe because it is painfully obvious Hewitt doesn't have the talent/game to be an all time great. Most tennis experts consider he has overachieved relative to his talent already.

Andre on the other hand was labeled as a massive underachiever up until 1999 when he finally began to fulfill some of his potential, no one was surprised when he began to win slams again and ever during his dark years most tennis experts did not write him of.

Hewitt may or he may not have the talent to become an all time great, but I'll tell you what he does have the talent to do: beat the (arguably) 2 best players in the world. He did it in his last two matches after his "lay off".

LMAO@beating the world's 2 best players at his lowest ebb!

WyverN
12-25-2003, 10:58 AM
LMAO@beating the world's 2 best players at his lowest ebb!

I don't recall him beating Roddick

I don't take people's comments about Hewitt with name "fanofhewitt" seriously anyway

FanOfHewitt
12-25-2003, 12:37 PM
I don't recall him beating Roddick

You took my comment out of context. I had said that it was arguable that Federer and Ferrero were the 2 best players in the world.

Oh, and since you think Andy is the best player in the world, I'd just like to remind you that Hewitt has already whipped him 3 times to zip. Federer also owns Roddick with a 5-1 record against him, whilst Roddick got the better of Ferrero in their only encounter at the US Open.

Roddick will always struggle against the players who can return his serve well, Hewitt, Scheuttler, Agassi, Federer. This time next year he won't be number one.


I don't take people's comments about Hewitt with name "fanofhewitt" seriously anyway

My bias towards Hewitt is about as big as your bias against him. So how about attacking the argument instead of the man?

WyverN
12-25-2003, 01:14 PM
Oh, and since you think Andy is the best player in the world, I'd just like to remind you that Hewitt has already whipped him 3 times to zip.


I recall one match being a very close 5 setter and another a retirement by Roddick at 1 set all. Don't remmember their 3rd match. They haven't met recently either.


Roddick will always struggle against the players who can return his serve well, Hewitt, Scheuttler, Agassi, Federer. This time next year he won't be number one.


No he probably wont be #1, but he will be top 5 while Hewitt will be around the #10 place.



My bias towards Hewitt is about as big as your bias against him. So how about attacking the argument instead of the man?

I don't have any bias against Hewitt, if he had the game to win more slams I would say so. I just call it like I see it.

FanOfHewitt
11-22-2004, 05:36 AM
Just thought I'd bring this thread up again and congratulate Lleyton Hewitt for making it back inside the top 5 and proving some of his doubters wrong (again).

In a way it's been a disappointing year for Lleyton, failing to win any Slams or TMS's, but he has been very consistent and gone about his business the only way he knows how, fighting and scrapping for everything he's worth.

Although Roger has clearly distinguished himself from the pack, Hewitt is right there below him with Roddick, Safin, Moya, Agassi etc. Hopefully next year the likes of Coria, Nalbandian, Ferrero can stay injury free and we should be having lots of great battles with everyone challenging for Federer's crown.

Auscon
11-22-2004, 05:43 AM
You can quote me on this later but Hewitt will not be in the top 5 next year. I gurantee it.

quoted :)

Oncourt I dont think its been a disappointing year for Lleyton at all.....he's had a great year...its just that Rogers had an absolute blinder

Leena
11-22-2004, 05:44 AM
I voted 3.

Iheartandy&roger
11-22-2004, 06:58 AM
Next year who knows it all depends how he plays I mean anyone of these guys could go crashing down.

MisterQ
11-22-2004, 07:03 AM
Thanks for bringing this thread back up -- I had forgotten about it. Well, Hewitt exceeded my expectations and those of many others. I was very impressed with his form this week, although he needs to pick up his serving. Congrats on a solid year, Lleyton! :clap2:

FanOfHewitt
11-22-2004, 07:07 AM
LMFAO, 4 people have 'predicted' that Lleyton will finish 3rd since I brought this thread back up earlier today.

roflmao, make that 7 now. Only 7 people had voted Lleyton to finish 3rd this year prior to bringing the thread back up.

Neely
11-22-2004, 07:11 AM
Wow, really very nice bump! :) :worship: tnx for it!

I'm glad that I wasn't yet a member back then when this was discussed. Even though Lleyton is definitely one of my favourites, I wouldn't have guessed him inside the Top 5 if I was asked at the end of 2003.

Very very good work, Lleyton! :bowdown: :worship: ... it's always nice to listen to your amazing and awesome "C'MONNNNNNNs", a pleasure to see you back in shape! Just like it if Lleyton is that pumped up! :yeah: His emotions are beyond words :bowdown:

tangerine_dream
11-22-2004, 05:25 PM
This has to be one of the stupidest things ever posted on these forums.

No, this is:

WyverN wrote:
I predict Hewitt won't make a slam semi next year, hopefully after that a few more people will have doubts about him.....You can quote me on this later but Hewitt will not be in the top 5 next year. I gurantee it.

:haha:

speedracer
11-22-2004, 05:40 PM
Originally Posted by WyverN
This has to be one of the stupidest things ever posted on these forums.



No, this is:


Quote:
WyverN wrote:
I predict Hewitt won't make a slam semi next year, hopefully after that a few more people will have doubts about him.....You can quote me on this later but Hewitt will not be in the top 5 next year. I gurantee it.


How this is the stupidest? It could easily had happened, if Safin kept his interest the whole year, and Ferrero and Nalbandian's bodies did not fall apart.
I know ifs don't count, but WyverN's prognosis turned out to be wrong, but no way it was stupid.

FanOfHewitt
11-22-2004, 06:47 PM
What was stupid was guaranteeing that Hewitt won't be in the top 5.

It is ok to say that it appears unlikely, but to say that it is guaranteed, especially when it concerns someone as determined as Lleyton, is extremely stupid.

Leena
11-22-2004, 06:48 PM
LMFAO, 4 people have 'predicted' that Lleyton will finish 3rd since I brought this thread back up earlier today.
:p

tangerine_dream
11-22-2004, 06:51 PM
What was stupid was guaranteeing that Hewitt won't be in the top 5. It is ok to say that it appears unlikely, but to say that it is guaranteed, especially when it concerns someone as determined as Lleyton, is extremely stupid.

Exactly.

Socket
11-22-2004, 06:57 PM
A lot of people on MTF judge Lleyton on grounds other than his tennis, which leads them to errors of this sort. Never understood that myself. There are players out there I know I couldn't be friends with, or even would want as my next-door neighbors, but that doesn't affect my view of their tennis abilities.

Roger-No.1
11-22-2004, 07:53 PM
WyverN would've made some seroius money. 3 out of 4 slams. A very respectable prediction.

AO - Hewitt didn't reach SF

FO - Hewitt didn't reach SF

Wimby - Hewitt didn't reach SF

USO - Hewitt was a finalist

USO said this about him. "In fact, during his 16-match win streak that dates back to the two titles he won coming into the US Open, he only faced one player in the top 25 -- Juan Ignacio Chela, who is currently ranked 17th in the world -- and he was forced to come back from a set down".

"Although Hewitt has not dropped a set so far this tournament, he has lost 52 games in his six matches, and he has yet to face a top-25 player so far, let alone the top player in the world".

Top 25 players were busy in Athens and forgot the US summer season after Cincy and before USO. Could Hewitt beat them in Washington - Long Island? Who knows? "No, he couldn't". Or "Sure, why not?". He won a lot of matches, and that was great for him and his confidence.

Hewitt is a tough player. His US Open run was great and he beat top 10 players to be a finalist in Houston. He deserves to be No. 3. One more win in Paris = No.2, but it was not meant to be.

Leena
11-22-2004, 07:55 PM
A better prediction would be saying Roddick would only make 1 slam SF.

MisterQ
11-22-2004, 07:57 PM
LMFAO, 4 people have 'predicted' that Lleyton will finish 3rd since I brought this thread back up earlier today.

roflmao, make that 7 now. Only 7 people had voted Lleyton to finish 3rd this year prior to bringing the thread back up.

:lol:

They must be psychic!! :bowdown:

Roger-No.1
11-22-2004, 10:12 PM
:lol:

They must be psychic!! :bowdown:

Voted 2. Damn psychic powers! :haha:

Scotso
11-23-2004, 12:08 AM
I voted 2 as well :eek:

Chloe le Bopper
11-23-2004, 02:38 AM
What was stupid was guaranteeing that Hewitt won't be in the top 5.

It is ok to say that it appears unlikely, but to say that it is guaranteed, especially when it concerns someone as determined as Lleyton, is extremely stupid.

"I guarentee it" is something that people tend to throw at the end of sentences when they want to make it very clear that their position on the issue is firm.

There was absolutely nothing "stupid" about it. What is "stupid" is that you are so freakin petty that you can't just be satisfied that Hewitt exceeded some peoples expectations.

Leena
11-23-2004, 02:39 AM
Becky, what are your expectations of Nadal next year?

Chloe le Bopper
11-23-2004, 02:39 AM
Unless you made your own detailed predictions like he did, you shouldn't be criticizing WyveN for how his turned out. As it's been pointed out, most of them were fairly good. Even if you did make your own and they were even better than his, well then, congratulations. You're a wanker.

This a general comment to anybody criticizing him in here :p

Chloe le Bopper
11-23-2004, 02:40 AM
Becky, what are your expectations of Nadal next year?
Well I picked him to make the top 25 this year. Oops. He'll do it next year if he doesn't bust a foot before clay season again.

Leena
11-23-2004, 02:41 AM
I hope he does. His game is needed in the top of the game. :)

Billabong
11-23-2004, 03:29 AM
I was almost right:) Lleyton really surprised me this year:)

FanOfHewitt
11-23-2004, 05:59 AM
"I guarentee it" is something that people tend to throw at the end of sentences when they want to make it very clear that their position on the issue is firm.

There was absolutely nothing "stupid" about it. What is "stupid" is that you are so freakin petty that you can't just be satisfied that Hewitt exceeded some peoples expectations.

Unless you made your own detailed predictions like he did, you shouldn't be criticizing WyveN for how his turned out. As it's been pointed out, most of them were fairly good. Even if you did make your own and they were even better than his, well then, congratulations. You're a wanker.

This a general comment to anybody criticizing him in here.
__________________

Where the fuck do you get off calling me or any one else here a wanker?

When somebody guarantees something, and says you can quote them on it, you take what they say seriously.

Making predictions is one thing, but being obnoxious and claiming that you can't be wrong is another, and for that you should be held accountable.

Any predictions I have made have always been based on opinion and what I think is likely. People like Wyven take some of their predictions to be matters of fact, set in stone and that's where the stupidity comes into it. I'm not criticising him for his predictions but for the manner that he predicted them in.

I couldn't care if someone thought Hewitt won't be in the top 200 next year, but if they treat it as if its a matter of fact, that's where I take issue with it.

For as long as I've been here WyveN has been making snide remarks about Hewitt and how he'll win a slam when pigs fly, never make a semi final this year, never make it into the top 5 etc. Recently he has changed his tune and hasn't said much since Hewitt started climbing the rankings.

I'm not bringing this up to gloat that my predictions were right but just to make a point that nothing is certain and to guarantee something like Hewitt won't be in the top 5 is stupid.

lsy
11-23-2004, 06:35 AM
No, this is:

:haha:

Typical of you.

WyveN had made far more intelligent contributions on tennis than you ever had in most of your whiny posts, which had nth but stirring up more trouble and make you look more petty.

bad gambler
11-23-2004, 09:03 AM
interesting to read through the posts and see that the general consensus was that hewitt would be hovering around 5-10

i think hewitt had a fair year, however there is a lot of improving he needs to do to match it with federer - and to me, i think he has to aim for no 1 however futile that may be in order for his game to step it up a couple of notches

WyveN
11-23-2004, 04:40 PM
;)

All the Hewitt debates were fun and I wouldnt change anything if I could go back in time. Obviously I have been proven wrong on some issues but hey I'll live.

Domino
11-23-2004, 04:45 PM
yeah, I was greatly proven wrong as well for believing that Fish would be in the top 8 at the end of the year. Now I am starting to doubt that will ever happen.

like you said, life goes on.

WyveN
11-23-2004, 04:54 PM
Unless you made your own detailed predictions like he did, you shouldn't be criticizing WyveN for how his turned out.

I don't have a problem with it, I knew the risk when I made those claims and deserve all I get.

I will bump this thread if Hewitt doesn't win a slam before retirement but if Hewitt plays as long as Connors (a player Hewitt reminds me of) then that may be 15 years away :unsure:

Havok
11-23-2004, 05:27 PM
Oh well I was wrong.:(

alfonsojose
11-23-2004, 05:55 PM
;)
Obviously I have been proven wrong on some issues but hey I'll live.
That's what u think :devil:
Tonight, a man with a MTF tatoo on his left arm will be knocking at your door. Only if u post a "I'm sorry Potato" thread you'll be alive tomorrow :scared: JA JA JA ....

WyveN
11-23-2004, 10:27 PM
That's what u think :devil:
Tonight, a man with a MTF tatoo on his left arm will be knocking at your door. Only if u post a "I'm sorry Potato" thread you'll be alive tomorrow :scared: JA JA JA ....

Can I send him to your place? You can cook him potatoes.

alfonsojose
11-23-2004, 10:44 PM
Can I send him to your place? You can cook him potatoes.
No. He's hetero :p ;)