karol beck was positive on doping control during tie with argentina !?!? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

karol beck was positive on doping control during tie with argentina !?!?

s.m.
11-29-2005, 07:38 PM
this is speculation from slovak papers ˝Pravda˝, which was revealed in todays croatian papers
i donīt know reputation of Pravda
is it trashy newspapers, or is it realible with this kind of information
only our slovak friends can know that
article says that A sample was postive, B is yet unknown so itīs not official
beck is silent about all of this

Springy
11-29-2005, 08:03 PM
fake

RickDaStick
11-29-2005, 09:11 PM
Its probably true but you couldnt tell from his results, he is a crap player so i dont think this can even help him a little.

thelma
11-29-2005, 09:19 PM
this is speculation from slovak papers ˝Pravda˝, which was revealed in todays croatian papers
i donīt know reputation of Pravda
is it trashy newspapers, or is it realible with this kind of information
only our slovak friends can know that
article says that A sample was postive, B is yet unknown so itīs not official
beck is silent about all of this


Any link?

DrJules
11-29-2005, 09:35 PM
More unsubstantiated allegations. :mad:

jazz_girl
11-29-2005, 09:41 PM
I won't believe anything until it comes from an official source...

s.m.
11-29-2005, 09:44 PM
Any link?

i have it in croatian
on pravdaīs page i canīt find anything, but that is maybe because i donīt know any of slovakian language

http://www.vecernji-list.hr/newsroom/sports/more/428924/index.do

2nd segment is about beck and those roumors

s.m.
11-29-2005, 09:46 PM
More unsubstantiated allegations. :mad:

that information came from sources in slovakia
what is their motivation for this, and before biggest event in their tennis history :confused:

El Legenda
11-29-2005, 09:54 PM
CHEATER







ITS A JOKE, WHERE IS YOUR SENSE OF HUMOR :) :rolleyes:

DrJules
11-29-2005, 09:58 PM
CHEATER


If Karol Beck was on performance enhancing drugs he should get a refund.

Saumon
11-29-2005, 10:10 PM
it would be fair, argentina had puerta :shrug: :tape: ;)

big :hug: @ scottie, i hope it's not true sweetie :kiss:

El Legenda
11-29-2005, 10:12 PM
If Karol Beck was on performance enhancing drugs he should get a refund.

no kidding :rolls: didnt help much, well it did during the DC SF, if he indeed did take them, but for now he is in clear.

howardean
11-29-2005, 10:12 PM
If Karol Beck was on performance enhancing drugs he should get a refund.

:haha: :haha:

Silawen
11-29-2005, 10:17 PM
This is not directed at s.m., but....Ljubicic fans. :rolleyes:

Saumon
11-29-2005, 10:19 PM
This is not directed at s.m., but....Ljubicic fans. :rolleyes:
agreed :retard:

El Legenda
11-29-2005, 10:21 PM
This is not directed at s.m., but....Ljubicic fans. :rolleyes:

what the problem? :retard:

Scotso
11-29-2005, 10:30 PM
This is not directed at s.m., but....Ljubicic fans. :rolleyes:

What do you expect from them? We've seen enough of their antics on the board to know this is how they are going to behave.

Silawen
11-29-2005, 10:40 PM
what the problem? :retard:

Oh, I don't know...this, perhaps:

Its probably true but you couldnt tell from his results, he is a crap player so i dont think this can even help him a little.

Or perhaps I was referring to this:

CHEATER

Gee, I don't know...

KBF: You're right, of course, but their moronic responces surprise me everytime. Tennisfans my foot.

DrJules
11-29-2005, 10:42 PM
The ATP really need to get their act in order. All these rumours are doing tennis no good. They need to actually say if these athletes are taking or not taking drugs. It is not fair to anyone.

Scotso
11-29-2005, 10:42 PM
Oh, and if you're going to post the only "source" on this accusation that exists (which just happens to be Croatian?) then you could at least translate it.

El Legenda
11-29-2005, 10:43 PM
Oh, I don't know...this, perhaps:



Or perhaps I was referring to this:



Gee, I don't know...

KBF: You're right, of course, but their moronic responces surprise me everytime. Tennisfans my foot.

good sense of humor you got that, why not quote when i said he is in the clear for now? :retard:

Horatio Caine
11-29-2005, 10:44 PM
Oh, and if you're going to post the only "source" on this accusation that exists (which just happens to be Croatian?) then you could at least translate it.

Maybe the article is co - written by Ljubo? :shrug: :devil:

El Legenda
11-29-2005, 10:44 PM
http://www.vecernji-list.hr/newsroom/sports/more/428924/index.do

the title says

"Karol Beck in the SF vs Arg doped."

Horatio Caine
11-29-2005, 10:46 PM
What a picture to go with it! :tape: :haha: :haha:

If he took anything, I'd say it was to alleviate constipation :tape:

Scotso
11-29-2005, 10:46 PM
that's nice, translate the rest

RickDaStick
11-29-2005, 10:46 PM
[QUOTE=Mike Jones]http://www.vecernji-list.hr/newsroom/sports/more/428924/index.do

Eww seeing that picture has definetly ruined my appetite.

El Legenda
11-29-2005, 10:47 PM
What do you expect from them? We've seen enough of their antics on the board to know this is how they are going to behave.

stfu :retard: you would of be all over it, if this was Ljubicic.

El Legenda
11-29-2005, 10:47 PM
that's nice, translate the rest

im working on it, back off.

Horatio Caine
11-29-2005, 10:48 PM
im working on it, back off.

Come on ladies...put the handbags away ;)

Silawen
11-29-2005, 10:48 PM
good sense of humor you got that, why not quote when i said he is in the clear for now?

Oh, I'm sorry, that was supposed to be funny? I doubt it would have been funny to you if one of us dared to say something like that about dear Ivan. ;)

Plus, 'for now' doesn't sound very certain either, and doesn't even out the stupid comment you posted before that.

jole
11-29-2005, 10:52 PM
:lol:

Croatia is fortunate most intelligent people do not form their opinions about the people of Croatia from the pathetic behavior of the Croats on MTF.

El Legenda
11-29-2005, 10:53 PM
Naime, bratislavska je Pravda objavila da je Karol Beck, drugi slovački tenisač, bio pozitivan na dopinškoj kontroli provedenoj za vrijeme polufinala Davisova kupa koji su Slovaci igrali s Argentinom. Riječ je, naime, samo o A uzorku, koji u slučaju dopinga nije služben ako se i uzorak B ne pokaže pozitivnim. Kakav je nalaz uzorka B za sada se ne zna, a Beck o tome također ne želi govoriti. On se, pak, oporavlja od ozljede koljena, pa je čak u rodnom Zwolenu išao i na akunpunkturu. - Bit ću spreman za
petak i Hrvatsku - uvjeren je Beck.

Part in bold say- that the News paper Pravda said, Beck tested pos. during the time around SF vs Arg.

Italic part says- Beck didnt want to talk about it when asked, so he didnt deny it or accept it.

last part of that says, beck said he knee hurt, but he'll be ready to play frinday :confused:

El Legenda
11-29-2005, 10:59 PM
U subotu će biti 3:0 za nas i posao će biti gotov - kaže Kučera
:haha: he says its gonna be 3-0 Slovaki Saturday and the job will be done :rolls:

Scotso
11-29-2005, 10:59 PM
Well I can tell you that Pravda didn't say that. If there had been reports that Beck tested positive during that SF, then you can be sure that the Argentine press would have picked it up.

In other words, the only source claiming this is a Croatian one, days before they play Slovakia in the DC finals. Classy, to say the least.

El Legenda
11-29-2005, 11:02 PM
Well I can tell you that Pravda didn't say that. If there had been reports that Beck tested positive during that SF, then you can be sure that the Argentine press would have picked it up.

In other words, the only source claiming this is a Croatian one, days before they play Slovakia in the DC finals. Classy, to say the least.

Why would a Croatian paper claim it was Pravda, they could of just said its from a unknown source and not name Pravda, its not like Pravda newspaper wont find out that Croatian Newspaper quoted them on something that is not true, Pravda did say it, now if it true or not, remains to be known. :)

Horatio Caine
11-29-2005, 11:02 PM
Well I can tell you that Pravda didn't say that. If there had been reports that Beck tested positive during that SF, then you can be sure that the Argentine press would have picked it up.

In other words, the only source claiming this is a Croatian one, days before they play Slovakia in the DC finals. Classy, to say the least.

Very credible. The Argies would have screamed blue murder about it.

revolution
11-29-2005, 11:03 PM
Fake.. more newspaper lies, akin to Puerta...

Horatio Caine
11-29-2005, 11:03 PM
Fake.. more newspaper lies, akin to Puerta...

Has the verdict come out?

shotgun
11-29-2005, 11:12 PM
Very credible. The Argies would have screamed blue murder about it.

Certainly. The Argentine sports press is one of the most nationalistics in the world, I can tell how their reaction would be...

s.m.
11-29-2005, 11:25 PM
Oh, and if you're going to post the only "source" on this accusation that exists (which just happens to be Croatian?) then you could at least translate it.

i translated it in the first post
pravda says that karol beck was doped against argentina
according to A test, but B test didnīt confiremed it yet
that is all
other stuff is about the tie, possible tactics form mečir and so on

i didnīt take anything for granted
i just put it here, and hoped that someone from slovakia will set thing right
if you say pravda didnīt wrote this, than that our newspaper is nothing more but a piece of shit, and they should be ashamed

ys
11-29-2005, 11:37 PM
Of course it is true.. Those argentines are highly contagious..

lau
11-29-2005, 11:39 PM
Certainly. The Argentine sports press is one of the most nationalistics in the world, I can tell how their reaction would be...
Cīmon!! Giveme a break, did you ever read other countries sports press??! :rolleyes:


And as far as I know there were no news at all about this in the arg. press.

lau
11-29-2005, 11:43 PM
Of course it is true.. Those argentines are highly contagious..
As it was said in MTF several times, it`s in the water ;)

its.like.that
11-30-2005, 12:44 AM
gotta love the Croat trolls.

George_Hanson
11-30-2005, 12:49 AM
Reading all the posts on MTF, I decided to cheer for Slovakia

El Legenda
11-30-2005, 12:50 AM
Reading all the posts on MTF, I decided to cheer for Slovakia

you read over a 2.7million posts? :confused:

George_Hanson
11-30-2005, 12:54 AM
Yes, Ive been sitting in front of my CPU since March and I have just finished.

El Legenda
11-30-2005, 12:56 AM
Yes, Ive been sitting in front of my CPU since March and I have just finished.

you knew it march that slovakia would be in the final wow, i hope you put some money on that :)

sigmagirl91
11-30-2005, 12:59 AM
http://www.vecernji-list.hr/newsroom/sports/more/428924/index.do

the title says

"Karol Beck in the SF vs Arg doped."

I'd say he ate a lemon. :devil:

Federerthebest
11-30-2005, 01:07 AM
I don't believe it. Beck is way too crap a player to be on dope.

Chloe le Bopper
11-30-2005, 01:28 AM
:lol:

Croatia is fortunate most intelligent people do not form their opinions about the people of Croatia from the pathetic behavior of the Croats on MTF.
This is so. I confess that sometimes it's awfully difficult though.

Chloe le Bopper
11-30-2005, 01:29 AM
I don't believe it. Beck is way too crap a player to be on dope.
I sincerely hope that those of you who are saying this aren't actually stupid enough to believe it and are just having a good troll. Because it is an acceptable troll. Otherwise it's concerning.

Chloe le Bopper
11-30-2005, 01:31 AM
stfu :retard: you would of be all over it, if this was Ljubicic.
Yes, and if it was Ivan you wouldn't be trolling the thread, now would you? Tsk. Pot. Kettle.

shotgun
11-30-2005, 01:43 AM
Cīmon!! Giveme a break, did you ever read other countries sports press??! :rolleyes:
And as far as I know there were no news at all about this in the arg. press.

You're totally biased so you can't opinate on my post. :ras:

And no, there were no news about this in the arg. press, and I never said the argentine press ain't serious, as to publish gossips like this. I just meant that they are biased on their articles. You can't deny, for example, that they totally underestimated Beck before the SF tie, saying that his matches were almost guaranteed victories for Coria and Nalbandian. And they did the same thing to Voltchkov in 2004. If you want, I can post the links here.

lau
11-30-2005, 01:51 AM
Saying that Argentine sports press (BTW, what did you read...clarin? Ole? Infobaires? Just curious really...) is biased is very different from saying Argentine sports press is one of the most nationalistics in the world because it is not true.
In fact, sports press, worldwide, is the most openly biased press ;)

EDIT: BTW, I`m not being a smartass, but, would you, if you have it, post the links for me. :) I donīt read a lot of online Argentine tennis articles and would really like to read what you`re refering to (and who the journalists are). The arg. tennis articles I read I donīt usually read them online.

EDIT 2: The second part of my post you quote was for everyone, I was not replying to you ;)

El Legenda
11-30-2005, 01:56 AM
Yes, and if it was Ivan you wouldn't be trolling the thread, now would you? Tsk. Pot. Kettle.

trolling, what have i said it this thread, that was troll like, i said CHEATER, which was in a humorous way,

go read my other posts
Why would a Croatian paper claim it was Pravda, they could of just said its from a unknown source and not name Pravda, its not like Pravda newspaper wont find out that Croatian Newspaper quoted them on something that is not true, Pravda did say it, now if it true or not, remains to be known. :)
yeah look at me troll away, :retard:

no kidding :rolls: didnt help much, well it did during the DC SF, if he indeed did take them, but for now he is in clear.
again there i go trolling

go back to bitching how you have no ass & im gonna go back to have sex with 20 girls a night, according to you and KBF

Chloe le Bopper
11-30-2005, 03:01 AM
The girls that you bang probably have GREAT asses. I have no chance :sad:

El Legenda
11-30-2005, 03:26 AM
The girls that you bang probably have GREAT asses. I have no chance :sad:

ding ding ding ,you are correct!


if anyone caught what i posted before i edit my last post, didnt i say $20, she will come back and say something stupid and not anything with the topic of the thread :)

Scotso
11-30-2005, 03:30 AM
must be hard to take care of those ladies when you haven't left this thread all night

Leo
11-30-2005, 03:32 AM
You said 20 boys? We already knew that about you, kid.

This thread deserves deletion.

Might it be declared that Chloe le Bopper has the best avatar ever right now and should never change it.

El Legenda
11-30-2005, 03:33 AM
must be hard to take care of those ladies when you haven't left this thread all night

really, i see you cant tell time, :retard:

Denaon
11-30-2005, 03:33 AM
You're totally biased so you can't opinate on my post. :ras:

And no, there were no news about this in the arg. press, and I never said the argentine press ain't serious, as to publish gossips like this. I just meant that they are biased on their articles. You can't deny, for example, that they totally underestimated Beck before the SF tie, saying that his matches were almost guaranteed victories for Coria and Nalbandian. And they did the same thing to Voltchkov in 2004. If you want, I can post the links here.

:lol: I bet you were 100% certain Beck was going to win both matches and underestimated Coria and Nalbandian.:o :lol:
In theory Beck was an easy opponent for both and for the so called "favourite team" to win DC this year.

Denaon
11-30-2005, 03:35 AM
People, don't pay attention to MEDIA!!!!! wait for official announcements!!!!

El Legenda
11-30-2005, 03:42 AM
You said 20 boys? We already knew that about you, kid.

This thread deserves deletion.

Might it be declared that Chloe le Bopper has the best avatar ever right now and should never change it.

thanks for adding to the topic :rolleyes:

Leo
11-30-2005, 03:45 AM
thanks for adding to the topic :rolleyes:

Don't start with me. I've tolerated too much from you in the past.

And how could anyone possible contribute to this thread? It's a waste of space.

Chloe le Bopper
11-30-2005, 03:47 AM
You said 20 boys? We already knew that about you, kid.

This thread deserves deletion.

Might it be declared that Chloe le Bopper has the best avatar ever right now and should never change it.
Do you share my love of all things CSI Miami? HO-CAINE! Wins!

Seriously though, just before I read this I was looking at Sasah Cohen photos because I sort of want to use one of those.

El Legenda
11-30-2005, 03:47 AM
Don't start with me. I've tolerated too much from you in the past.

And how could anyone possible contribute to this thread? It's a waste of space.

dont start with you, who are you, what did i do to you? did kbf fill your head with bs to,

its a waste of space since KBF and Chloe came in and started crap.

Grinder
11-30-2005, 03:50 AM
Do you share my love of all things CSI Miami? HO-CAINE! Wins!

Seriously though, just before I read this I was looking at Sasah Cohen photos because I sort of want to use one of those.

Sascha Cohen Barren, AKA Ali "I like to move it, move it" G"?

:worship:

Chloe le Bopper
11-30-2005, 03:58 AM
Sascha Cohen Barren, AKA Ali "I like to move it, move it" G"?

:worship:
Who?

I meant the beautiful and graceful figure skater Sasha Cohen, of course :p

Paul Banks
11-30-2005, 04:00 AM
I can't be bothered to read that thread, but I'm sure Melissa Torres must be out of control.

Grinder
11-30-2005, 04:03 AM
Who?

I meant the beautiful and graceful figure skater Sasha Cohen, of course :p


This is Sascha Cohen Barren, AKA Ali G:
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00004ZBXW.02._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

But hey, Sasha Cohen is cute, so that's cool. :hug:

Leo
11-30-2005, 04:14 AM
dont start with you, who are you, what did i do to you? did kbf fill your head with bs to,

its a waste of space since KBF and Chloe came in and started crap.

Nobody "fills my head with BS." I've read enough of your posts in the past.

It's a waste of space because people are making accusations and slandering a professional's name when there is not even an official report yet. For all we know, it's completely untrue. People should not be calling him a cheater and whatnot.

Leo
11-30-2005, 04:19 AM
Do you share my love of all things CSI Miami? HO-CAINE! Wins!

Seriously though, just before I read this I was looking at Sasah Cohen photos because I sort of want to use one of those.

Indeed, I do share the love! His red hair is so dreamy. He's just so... sincere. :hearts:

And he keeps his promises. If he promises a little boy that he'll find his father's killer, he comes through. Every time. Gotta admire that spunk.

I support the Sasha avatar because she rocks but I'm glad I got to see the lieutenant before you ejected him. I even saved your little beauty of an avatar on my comptuer, I'm not going to lie.

El Legenda
11-30-2005, 04:21 AM
Nobody "fills my head with BS." I've read enough of your posts in the past.

It's a waste of space because people are making accusations and slandering a professional's name when there is not even an official report yet. For all we know, it's completely untrue. People should not be calling him a cheater and whatnot.

are you kidding me. did you even read what i wrote in here, accusations and slandering? i said what you basicly said, in this post at the end.
Originally Posted by Mike Jones
Why would a Croatian paper claim it was Pravda, they could of just said its from a unknown source and not name Pravda, its not like Pravda newspaper wont find out that Croatian Newspaper quoted them on something that is not true, Pravda did say it, now if it true or not, remains to be known.

thats what i said, now i dont care what other people said.

and i have read some of your posts on the forum, ur not an :angel: urself :rolls:

Chloe le Bopper
11-30-2005, 04:51 AM
Indeed, I do share the love! His red hair is so dreamy. He's just so... sincere. :hearts:

I know, right? I had to hide my Ho-Caine posters first year when I lived in residence because I found that I always had unexpected visitors who refused to leave! What a dreamboat. I should show you the sexy Ho-Caine wallpaper that I found. *swoon*

And he keeps his promises. If he promises a little boy that he'll find his father's killer, he comes through. Every time. Gotta admire that spunk.

Ho-Caine is like... God. Only sexier.

I support the Sasha avatar because she rocks but I'm glad I got to see the lieutenant before you ejected him. I even saved your little beauty of an avatar on my comptuer, I'm not going to lie.

Sasha is my idol. I would gladly give her boobs if I could have her face and ability to fold in half. I'm flexible for normal people, but she's just incredible.

Feel free to use the CSI avy any time you would like. Or I can make you an even better one! There will be more CSI MIAMI and HoCaine in the future, I promise.

mandoura
11-30-2005, 05:11 AM
The ATP really need to get their act in order. All these rumours are doing tennis no good. They need to actually say if these athletes are taking or not taking drugs. It is not fair to anyone.

:yeah:

mandoura
11-30-2005, 05:13 AM
What a picture to go with it! :tape: :haha: :haha:

If he took anything, I'd say it was to alleviate constipation :tape:

:lol:

El Legenda
11-30-2005, 05:20 AM
if this is true, ATP has a big decison to make, down play this, then do something after DC or do something 3 days before DC, if Croatia wins and they do something about it later, that would be better then, if slovakia wins and its true, then its really bad for them.

Scotso
11-30-2005, 05:47 AM
if this is true

if?

didn't you already make up your mind when you called him a "CHEATER"?

El Legenda
11-30-2005, 05:49 AM
if?

didn't you already make up your mind when you called him a "CHEATER"?

i was kidding :rolleyes: , and yes i said IF in all other posted after that, did you read them. no?

Scotso
11-30-2005, 05:52 AM
i was kidding :rolleyes: , and yes i said IF in all other posted after that, did you read them. no?

ah... kidding. funny joke.

El Legenda
11-30-2005, 05:53 AM
ah... kidding. funny joke.

i know its not my best work, did you read my replay to ur post of saying that Pravda didnt say anything. :rolleyes:

Galaxystorm
11-30-2005, 11:10 AM
The ATP really need to get their act in order. All these rumours are doing tennis no good. They need to actually say if these athletes are taking or not taking drugs. It is not fair to anyone.

Both Puerta and Beck, these two possible positives were in ITF competitions, not in ATP , so it's the ITF the organization which has to stop those rumours, not the ATP :shrug:

By the way , Eurosport also talks about the possible positive of Beck but only mentioning as sources the slovak newspaper ( Pravda ) and the croat one ( Vecernji List )

MariaV
11-30-2005, 11:32 AM
Both Puerta and Beck, these two possible positives were in ITF competitions, not in ATP , so it's the ITF the organization which has to stop those rumours, not the ATP :shrug:

By the way , Eurosport also talks about the possible positive of Beck but only mentioning as sources the slovak newspaper ( Pravda ) and the croat one ( Vecernji List )

Ehh guys, so there could really be something to it?
Huh, then there will really rise the question - what will happen if the Slovaks win the DC and Beck turns out to have doped?

BATES
11-30-2005, 12:23 PM
Ok, it's been already picked up by the argentine press. Saw it in the news. Anyway, they say it's only rumors..

*Ljubica*
11-30-2005, 12:50 PM
This whole doping thing in tennis is ridiculous - as Dr.Jules said a long time ago in this thread, why the hell does it take so long to sort these things out? Results of medical tests cannot take more than a couple of weeks at maximum (probably a lot less time), - so why don't they just make it public straightaway. If the player is guilty then it's best they're out of the game straightaway, and if they're innocent then it saves them so much unnecessary stress. All this rumour and speculation is bad for the sport.

Jim Jones
11-30-2005, 01:05 PM
well it looks like Karol Kucera will be playing the 2nd singles slot for Slovakia. Beck was not on the pratice courts due to injury and|or drug allegation problems. Kucera is a beter player on hardcourts so maybe it was better for Slovakia to play on their present surface.

alfonsojose
11-30-2005, 01:23 PM
Beck is hot but who cares :shrug:? Hingis is back :aparty:

alfonsojose
11-30-2005, 01:24 PM
If this become true, sory Scott :hug:

Denaon
11-30-2005, 01:32 PM
well it looks like Karol Kucera will be playing the 2nd singles slot for Slovakia. Beck was not on the pratice courts due to injury and|or drug allegation problems. Kucera is a beter player on hardcourts so maybe it was better for Slovakia to play on their present surface.
Beck won't play the final tie for Slovak for sure...according to "Clarin" (argie press) only results from the final tie could be changed, in this case if Beck's posistive happens to be true, it won't have any effect on Slo vs Arg result, but it could have huge effect on this next one. I assume Slovak team won't take that risk.

MariaV
11-30-2005, 01:40 PM
This whole doping thing in tennis is ridiculous - as Dr.Jules said a long time ago in this thread, why the hell does it take so long to sort these things out? Results of medical tests cannot take more than a couple of weeks at maximum (probably a lot less time), - so why don't they just make it public straightaway. If the player is guilty then it's best they're out of the game straightaway, and if they're innocent then it saves them so much unnecessary stress. All this rumour and speculation is bad for the sport.
Indeed. How long does it take to inform the person involved and get the B sample analyzed. :rolleyes:
So bad for tennis.

Alvarillo
11-30-2005, 01:49 PM
:eek:

s.m.
11-30-2005, 02:11 PM
ok
i found out something more
pravda did publiish this story about beck, but 2 weeks ago
journalist from there had a ˝realible source˝
just like those from līeqipue :rolleyes:
and just like in that case, there is no reaction from itf

jazz_girl
11-30-2005, 02:17 PM
ok
i found out something more
pravda did publiish this story about beck, but 2 weeks ago
journalist from there had a ˝realible source˝
just like those from līeqipue :rolleyes:
and just like in that case, there is no reaction from itf
And there won't be until there's a resolution on the subject.

G_Hughes
11-30-2005, 05:03 PM
This whole doping thing in tennis is ridiculous - as Dr.Jules said a long time ago in this thread, why the hell does it take so long to sort these things out? Results of medical tests cannot take more than a couple of weeks at maximum (probably a lot less time), - so why don't they just make it public straightaway. If the player is guilty then it's best they're out of the game straightaway, and if they're innocent then it saves them so much unnecessary stress. All this rumour and speculation is bad for the sport.


I fully agree with you Rosie but youīve been in lots of tournaments and you know how things work out in the ATP TOUR. You shouldnīt be " THAT SURPRISED " therefore considering the fact that there are so many interests in this pathetic organization. Coaches, supervisors, promoters , etc... they all have access to certain information that most of us donīt . If Agassi tested positive for example imagine the consequences. Itīs all a big MAFIA , the same applies for UEFA and other organizations.
Iīd like to know some bets made from inside the ATP to open " Pandoraīs box " .........
So many people involved, so many interests,so much money in play..........
As Bilbo says ............ CLEAR AS WATER .
We know some of the names and be sure that we donīt know anything compared of what is going on .
Caņas tested positive in February and had to wait 6 months.........
Puerta tested positive ( or at least thatīs what LīEquipe suggested ) and we still know nothing.
Now Beck, these is a joke .
It takes 72 hours as a maximum to make a doping analysis ............
So many faces behind the mask ............
At least we still have GOD FEDERER

El Legenda
11-30-2005, 05:05 PM
I fully agree with you Rosie but youīve been in lots of tournaments and you know how things work out in the ATP TOUR. You shouldnīt be " THAT SURPRISED " therefore considering the fact that there are so many interests in this pathetic organization. Coaches, supervisors, promoters , etc... they all have access to certain information that most of us donīt . If Agassi tested positive for example imagine the consequences. Itīs all a big MAFIA , the same applies for UEFA and other organizations.
Iīd like to know some bets made from inside the ATP to open " Pandoraīs box " .........
So many people involved, so many interests,so much money in play..........
As Bilbo says ............ CLEAR AS WATER .
We know some of the names and be sure that we donīt know anything compared of what is going on .
Caņas tested positive in February and had to wait 6 months.........
Puerta tested positive ( or at least thatīs what LīEquipe suggested ) and we still know nothing.
Now Beck, these is a joke .
It takes 72 hours as a maximum to make a doping analysis ............
So many faces behind the mask ............
At least we still have GOD FEDERER

yeah it takes 72 hours, but the ATP does not want the people to know, it will ruin DC week, they are down playing it, if its true.

but it is a little weird that Beck said he will be ready to play friday, and now he is out :rolleyes:

tangerine_dream
11-30-2005, 06:11 PM
Figures a thread like this would be started by a croatard. :p

El Legenda
11-30-2005, 06:14 PM
Figures a thread like this would be started by a croatard. :p

:smooch: where have you been? :awww:

*Ljubica*
11-30-2005, 06:38 PM
I fully agree with you Rosie but youīve been in lots of tournaments and you know how things work out in the ATP TOUR. You shouldnīt be " THAT SURPRISED " therefore considering the fact that there are so many interests in this pathetic organization. Coaches, supervisors, promoters , etc... they all have access to certain information that most of us donīt . If Agassi tested positive for example imagine the consequences. Itīs all a big MAFIA , the same applies for UEFA and other organizations.
Iīd like to know some bets made from inside the ATP to open " Pandoraīs box " .........
So many people involved, so many interests,so much money in play..........
As Bilbo says ............ CLEAR AS WATER .
We know some of the names and be sure that we donīt know anything compared of what is going on .
Caņas tested positive in February and had to wait 6 months.........
Puerta tested positive ( or at least thatīs what LīEquipe suggested ) and we still know nothing.
Now Beck, these is a joke .
It takes 72 hours as a maximum to make a doping analysis ............
So many faces behind the mask ............
At least we still have GOD FEDERER

No - you're right - I'm not THAT SURPRISED - just pretty disappointed at the whole sorry fiasco. As you say - in some ways it is like a big Mafia - and as for insider betting - let's not go there........... :rolleyes:

Scotso
11-30-2005, 06:40 PM
It really makes me sad that Karol's name will be ruined before he's even (if ever) found guilty.

Even if he is innocent, this is probably something that will ruin his career.

*Ljubica*
11-30-2005, 06:48 PM
It really makes me sad that Karol's name will be ruined before he's even (if ever) found guilty.

Even if he is innocent, this is probably something that will ruin his career.

Don't be too sad :hug: I believe in "innocent til proven guilty" - but even if he does get found guilty, Coria has proved you can come back from a ban and reach the Top 10 - Karol is young - he will be fine :)

Scotso
11-30-2005, 06:51 PM
I would support him even if he was ranked around #500 for the rest of his career...

I'm more worried about how I will react to him if he's guilty :sad: Hopefully this is all just a rumor and not true. Hopefully he's not positive. If he is positive, hopefully it was some mistake.

But if it was deliberate... I don't know if I can be KarolBeckFan anymore :(

Scotso
11-30-2005, 06:52 PM
This just really isn't something I needed right now. I'm so sad for him. It has to be horrible just sitting around not being able to do anything when these rumors are circulating.

El Legenda
11-30-2005, 07:00 PM
If this comes out true, he's probly get a one year. so its not that bad.

sol
11-30-2005, 07:01 PM
But if it was deliberate... I don't know if I can be KarolBeckFan anymore :(

Why not?. He’ll need the endorsement of his fans. I’m still supporting Caņas for example.






G_Hughes[/b]] You shouldnīt be " THAT SURPRISED " therefore considering the fact that there are so many interests in this pathetic organization. Coaches, supervisors, promoters , etc... they all have access to certain information that most of us donīt . If Agassi tested positive for example imagine the consequences. Itīs all a big MAFIA , the same applies for UEFA and other organizations.
Iīd like to know some bets made from inside the ATP to open " Pandoraīs box " .........



Agreed.

Scotso
11-30-2005, 07:05 PM
Why not?. He’ll need the endorsement of his fans. I’m still supporting Caņas for example.

Because I can't support someone who cheats.

I don't think he did, though. He just really doesn't seem like the type. :(

Oh Karol :sad:

sol
11-30-2005, 07:09 PM
Because I can't support someone who cheats.

I don't think he did, though. He just really doesn't seem like the type. :(

Oh Karol :sad:

I think he is not guilty.... don't be sad :hug:

*Ljubica*
11-30-2005, 07:14 PM
Because I can't support someone who cheats.

I don't think he did, though. He just really doesn't seem like the type. :(

Oh Karol :sad:

Oh sweetie - it must be so hard for you :hug: - but I agree with Sol - I am still a Caņas fan - and Mariano Puerta too. I think what you have to establish and feel clear about in your own mind is whether they were cheating purposefully (if they were I couldn't support anyone either), - or if it was just a genuine mistake. For example - if Karol was genuinely taking medication and he or his coach just made a silly error and didn't fill in the correct forms which is what happened to Puerta - could you blame him then? No one is infallible and everyone makes mistakes - but one daft error shouldn't cost him the support of his fans when he needs them the most in my opinion.

Dragula.mp3
11-30-2005, 07:14 PM
I finished to read this from ESPN. Damn the ATP is completely useless. This dopping rumors are destroying the world of tennis. So Karol Beck is out?. I was thinking that the Slovakia team had his chances but now all seems to reach a bad end.

tangerine_dream
11-30-2005, 07:18 PM
:smooch: where have you been? :awww:
Thanksgiving holiday. :wavey: But I am home in time for Davis Cup and to bash Ivan Dickwad. Did you miss me? :p

MariaV
11-30-2005, 07:18 PM
It really makes me sad that Karol's name will be ruined before he's even (if ever) found guilty.

Even if he is innocent, this is probably something that will ruin his career.

I really feel sorry for you Scott. :hug: :hug:

ReturnWinner
11-30-2005, 07:24 PM
well a player tests positive in a doping control does not mean he is a cheater
if he did then we have to wait till having the substance/s he consumed and if he can justify the consumition of such substances!

sol
11-30-2005, 07:28 PM
well a player tests positive in a doping control does not mean he is a cheater


I think what you have to establish and feel clear about in your own mind is whether they were cheating purposefully (if they were I couldn't support anyone either), - or if it was just a genuine mistake. For example - if Karol was genuinely taking medication and he or his coach just made a silly error and didn't fill in the correct forms which is what happened to Puerta - could you blame him then? No one is infallible and everyone makes mistakes - but one daft error shouldn't cost him the support of his fans when he needs them the most in my opinion.

Agreed!

El Legenda
11-30-2005, 07:32 PM
Thanksgiving holiday. :wavey: But I am home in time for Davis Cup and to bash Ivan Dickwad. Did you miss me? :p

did i miss you? what kind of question is that :rolls: good to see you are back to your job :hearts: troll away sweetie :smooch:

El Legenda
11-30-2005, 07:35 PM
this has gotten a little fishy, Beck said he would be ready to play Friday, now he is out...remember that the winner of DC can be changed if a player of winning team is found doping. so slovakia might of not wanted to risk it and pulled him out.

athie
11-30-2005, 07:37 PM
Both Puerta and Beck, these two possible positives were in ITF competitions, not in ATP , so it's the ITF the organization which has to stop those rumours, not the ATP :shrug:
I’ll second that, to a point – to my knowledge the ‘rumours’ were initially made by Pravda?
I’m not condoning The ATP’s attitude to doping (on the whole) but you seriously can’t expect them to take responsibility/action for some ‘gutter press’ remarks.
BTW this thread is precious after taking a complete U turn. Thanks for brightening my day :)

Dragula.mp3
11-30-2005, 08:51 PM
Oh I almost forgot, now the ITF is in charge, very helpful indeed. NEXT!!!
Fucking idiots.

Saumon
11-30-2005, 08:55 PM
This just really isn't something I needed right now. I'm so sad for him. It has to be horrible just sitting around not being able to do anything when these rumors are circulating.
scottie :hug: :sad:

Grinder
11-30-2005, 08:57 PM
Kucera is by far the most acclomplished player on the Slovak team. He's had a bad year because of injuries and age, but the Croatians better be careful and not underestimate Kucera, he's pretty good on all surfaces.

croat123
11-30-2005, 09:02 PM
globosport (brazil) also has an article about the doping incident

SwissMister1
11-30-2005, 09:53 PM
Still haven't seen any mainstream press with articles about this, so I don't know what will happen. But Kucera could definitely throw off those Croats with his ball toss, so don't count out Slovakia :)

Baseline
11-30-2005, 10:08 PM
this has gotten a little fishy, Beck said he would be ready to play Friday, now he is out...remember that the winner of DC can be changed if a player of winning team is found doping. so slovakia might of not wanted to risk it and pulled him out.

If (and I mean IF as this is not at all substantiated) the reports are true and the winner is changed due to the results then how could there even be a final between Slovakia and Croatia? To take away Beck's SF wins would mean Slovakia did not win 3 matches in the SF and could not be in the final. I don't know DC rules in this regard and wonder if anything even remotely similar has happened before?

Scotso
11-30-2005, 10:12 PM
If (and I mean IF as this is not at all substantiated) the reports are true and the winner is changed due to the results then how could there even be a final between Slovakia and Croatia? To take away Beck's SF wins would mean Slovakia did not win 3 matches in the SF and could not be in the final. I don't know DC rules in this regard and wonder if anything even remotely similar has happened before?

only the final can be changed

Scotso
11-30-2005, 10:14 PM
Kucera is a good player but he's lightyears past his prime, to be honest.

If Karol is found positive and they took the title away, they lose. If they don't let Karol play, they lose.

:shrug:

Leo
11-30-2005, 10:27 PM
I know, right? I had to hide my Ho-Caine posters first year when I lived in residence because I found that I always had unexpected visitors who refused to leave! What a dreamboat. I should show you the sexy Ho-Caine wallpaper that I found. *swoon*



Ho-Caine is like... God. Only sexier.



Sasha is my idol. I would gladly give her boobs if I could have her face and ability to fold in half. I'm flexible for normal people, but she's just incredible.

Feel free to use the CSI avy any time you would like. Or I can make you an even better one! There will be more CSI MIAMI and HoCaine in the future, I promise.

I'm glad to see there are many other HoCaine admirers in the world. He's irresistable on so many levels.

And I'd love to see the wallpaper any time! I was thinking about changing my current computer background, Horatio would be purrrrfect.

I also wish I could experience a Sasha program in her boots. :p It must be so fun to be able to do all that! I'm jeeelous.

Chloe le Bopper
11-30-2005, 10:29 PM
Pour Leo: http://www.spookyweb.de/csi/files/wallpaper_fanart_hopecalaris_csim_horatiocaine.jpg

Leo
11-30-2005, 10:40 PM
Thankyou kindly! :kiss:

And about the actual topic... Karol. :sad: I hope it isn't true and he can still compete in Davis Cup. Nothing has been reported on the ITF website yet, but I guess we'll find out soon enough. They really need him.

Baseline
11-30-2005, 10:44 PM
only the final can be changed
Thanks, I see that now in the rules:

V. ARRANGEMENTS FOR THE COMPETITION
24.MEDICAL CONTROL
National Associations entering the competition and those players nominated to compete on their behalf agree, as a condition of entry, to the following:
(a) Anti-Doping Policy:
Random doping control tests may be conducted during the competition in accordance with the 2005 ITF Tennis Anti-Doping Programme.
(b) If any player following completion of the procedures, including appeal, set forth in the 2005 ITF Tennis Anti-Doping Programme is found to have committed a Doping Offence no match result shall be re-assessed except in the case of the Final where such player’s wins (if any) will be reversed. This may result in the team which originally lost the final being declared the Champion Nation. Such player will be subject to penalties laid down in the 2005 ITF Tennis Anti-Doping Programme.

Poljud
11-30-2005, 11:03 PM
You said 20 boys? We already knew that about you, kid.


Correct me if im wrong, but arent you gay :confused: You're kind of paying yourself out there, implying its something negative.

Tangerinedream, stop calling us "Croatards" please.

KBF, karmas a bitch isnt it?

Chloe le Bopper
11-30-2005, 11:04 PM
Why in the Hell would anybody be jealous of Ljubicic when there are far more accomplished players to envy? Stupidest. Signature. Ever.

Chloe le Bopper
11-30-2005, 11:06 PM
Oh, and you can't bring bad karma upon people that you've never met simply because of how you speak about them on a messageboard. If this was the case, Ljubicic would have imploded quite some time ago.

Jackass.

Poljud
11-30-2005, 11:09 PM
Why in the Hell would anybody be jealous of Ljubicic when there are far more accomplished players to envy? Stupidest. Signature. Ever.

Because he belittles Ljubo everywhere, about everything.

DrJules
11-30-2005, 11:10 PM
Why in the Hell would anybody be jealous of Ljubicic when there are far more accomplished players to envy? Stupidest. Signature. Ever.

Only 8 mens tennis players were ranked higher than him at the year end and he could be a Davis Cup winner in 1 week. :p

Poljud
11-30-2005, 11:10 PM
Oh, and you can't bring bad karma upon people that you've never met simply because of how you speak about them on a messageboard. If this was the case, Ljubicic would have imploded quite some time ago.

Jackass.

I dont believe in karma, i just thought it was a bit ironic how hes always bagged Ljubicic for what hes said in the media and stuff like that, and now this happens to Karol Beck.

Whats with the attack? i never did anything wrong to you :confused:

Chloe le Bopper
11-30-2005, 11:11 PM
Because he belittles Ljubo everywhere, about everything.
And you belittle Beck in the very same line. So if you were trying to make some sort of statement there, I think that you failed miserably.

Try again, porkchop.

Chloe le Bopper
11-30-2005, 11:12 PM
I dont believe in karma, i just thought it was a bit ironic how hes always bagged Ljubicic for what hes said in the media and stuff like that, and now this happens to Karol Beck.

I understand what you were saying. I was just sayin'

Whats with the attack? i never did anything wrong to you :confused:

I'm killing time before work :p

That, and it gets a bit tiresome to see the "croatards" pick on KBF, I won't lie. You guys want to pick on him... go for it. Just know that sometimes I get a little bored watching 10 on 1 fights... even if the 1 usually wins.

Poljud
11-30-2005, 11:13 PM
And you belittle Beck in the very same line. So if you were trying to make some sort of statement there, I think that you failed miserably.

Try again, porkchop.

No i dont, i havent bagged out Karol once in this thread, and when i have in the past its called "retaliation."

Try again....French.....frog? :wavey:

Grinder
11-30-2005, 11:14 PM
Dude, don't try to argue with Chloe, she's relentless.

Chloe :kiss:

Chloe le Bopper
11-30-2005, 11:14 PM
No i dont, i havent bagged out Karol once in this thread, and when i have in the past its called "retaliation."

I was picking on the siggy, which shows up in every post. So technically, everytime you post you bag him out ;)

Try again....French.....frog? :wavey:

ribbit?

DrJules
11-30-2005, 11:14 PM
No i dont, i havent bagged out Karol once in this thread, and when i have in the past its called "retaliation."

Try again....French.....frog? :wavey:
Stop picking on the French :sad: Anyway I thought she was Canadian

Poljud
11-30-2005, 11:14 PM
That, and it gets a bit tiresome to see the "croatards" pick on KBF, I won't lie. You guys want to pick on him... go for it. Just know that sometimes I get a little bored watching 10 on 1 fights... even if the 1 usually wins.

I say something to him if he says something which i dont like. I havent seen any 10 on 1 fights, look at my post count in not exactly here that often.

Please dont call us Croatards.

Chloe le Bopper
11-30-2005, 11:15 PM
Dude, don't try to argue with Chloe, she's relentless.

I take this as a compliment, yo.

Chloe :kiss:

Holla!

Chloe le Bopper
11-30-2005, 11:15 PM
I say something to him if he says something which i dont like. I havent seen any 10 on 1 fights, look at my post count in not exactly here that often.

Please dont call us Croatards.
I put it in quotations for a reason :p

Grinder
11-30-2005, 11:16 PM
It's usually KBF that instigates the arguements with RDucky.

Wouldn't it be easier if they had each other on ignore. :shrugs:

DrJules
11-30-2005, 11:19 PM
It's usually KBF that instigates the arguements with RDucky.

Wouldn't it be easier if they had each other on ignore. :shrugs:
They would be bored without each other.

bad gambler
12-01-2005, 12:59 AM
It's usually KBF that instigates the arguements with RDucky.

Wouldn't it be easier if they had each other on ignore. :shrugs:


that would be too easy

Federerthebest
12-01-2005, 02:25 AM
If Beck is found guilty he should be banned for life. There should be no leniency shown towards these doping scum.

sigmagirl91
12-01-2005, 02:32 AM
If Beck is found guilty he should be banned for life. There should be no leniency shown towards these doping scum.

You're really adamant about this, aren't you?

Chloe le Bopper
12-01-2005, 02:37 AM
If Beck is found guilty he should be banned for life. There should be no leniency shown towards these doping scum.
Nor should there be any shown towards idiots. Sadly, most of them are still able to procreate. I imagine that you are no different.

Federerthebest
12-01-2005, 02:47 AM
Nor should there be any shown towards idiots. Sadly, most of them are still able to procreate. I imagine that you are no different.

What a hugely mature and well-thought-out response. Perhaps in the future you can attempt to make arguments as to why you regard any of my statements to be idiotic, instead of throwing around insults. :rolleyes:

You're really adamant about this, aren't you?

Absolutely.

sigmagirl91
12-01-2005, 02:50 AM
What a hugely mature and well-thought-out response. Perhaps in the future you can attempt to make arguments as to why you regard any of my statements to be idiotic, instead of throwing around insults. :rolleyes:



Absolutely.

OK, then.....since you're the self-professed guru of anti-doping and all, we were all wondering when you will declare Karol Beck no longer eligible for competition.

Chloe le Bopper
12-01-2005, 02:51 AM
What a hugely mature and well-thought-out response. Perhaps in the future you can attempt to make arguments as to why you regard any of my statements to be idiotic, instead of throwing around insults. :rolleyes:




I could, but what fun would that be?

El Legenda
12-01-2005, 02:54 AM
Chloe wanna help me with stats, instead of trying hard here.

Federerthebest
12-01-2005, 03:05 AM
OK, then.....since you're the self-professed guru of anti-doping and all, we were all wondering when you will declare Karol Beck no longer eligible for competition.

If Beck is proven to have intentionally doped then the ATP/ITF should show some backbone and enforce on him a permanent ban from the sport. That players such as Canas - who have extorted hundreds of thousands of dollars from sponsors, tournaments and fans - are allowed to continue playing is ridiculous. The only equitable and effective punitive means by which to curtail doping is to adopt a one-strike policy.

I could, but what fun would that be?

right. :retard:

sigmagirl91
12-01-2005, 03:17 AM
If Beck is proven to have intentionally doped then the ATP/ITF should show some backbone and enforce on him a permanent ban from the sport. That players such as Canas - who have extorted hundreds of thousands of dollars from sponsors, tournaments and fans - are allowed to continue playing is ridiculous. The only equitable and effective punitive means by which to curtail doping is to adopt a one-strike policy.

In that case, the ATP/ITF would have to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Beck intentionally doped. How you prove that? One can only guess.

Federerthebest
12-01-2005, 03:28 AM
In that case, the ATP/ITF would have to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Beck intentionally doped. How you prove that? One can only guess.

Of course they would not have to prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt; they would have to prove it beyond reasonable doubt, the principle by which I am sure the ITF tribunal would operate. As for a judgement being only guesswork - why? You cannot make a statement such as this because you have no idea of what evidence is available.

El Legenda
12-01-2005, 03:30 AM
In that case, the ATP/ITF would have to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Beck intentionally doped. How you prove that? One can only guess.

:haha: yeah, no thats not how it works, all the players get a list of banned substances, and which products may have the banned substances, 1 stike and ur out.

If he is guilty, look for a 6months to 2 years ban.

Chloe le Bopper
12-01-2005, 03:32 AM
Chloe wanna help me with stats, instead of trying hard here.

I'm not trying at all.

What is the topic? :)

El Legenda
12-01-2005, 03:45 AM
I'm not trying at all.

What is the topic? :)

stock market :)

Chloe le Bopper
12-01-2005, 03:53 AM
stock market :)
Business stats, eh? Now there is a course that I didn't take.

El Legenda
12-01-2005, 04:01 AM
Business stats, eh? Now there is a course that I didn't take.

i think im starting to get it.....is it too late that finals week is in 10 days :rolls:

Chloe le Bopper
12-01-2005, 04:03 AM
Better that you get it now than 4 weeks from now when it will be totally useless to you.

TennisLurker
12-01-2005, 04:08 AM
it is the Buenos Aires water, roids in the water

Baseline
12-01-2005, 05:05 AM
Of course they would not have to prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt; they would have to prove it beyond reasonable doubt, the principle by which I am sure the ITF tribunal would operate.

Actually the standard is supposed to be strict liability in regard to which intent is "supposed to be" irrelevant (see below for text of ATP rule). I say supposed to be, because strict liability is primarily reserved for Argentine players and players deemed non-critical. Note the inapplicability of strict liability to the "secret six" - per the infamous WADA report bashing the ATP's failure to enforce their own anti-doping rules. Neither the shadow of a doubt nor the reasonable doubt standard should enter into this.

C. Doping Offenses
Doping is defined as the occurrence of one or more of the following (each, a "Doping Offense"):
1) The presence of a Prohibited Substance or its Metabolites or Markers in a layer’s Specimen, unless the Player establishes that the presence is pursuant to a therapeutic use exemption granted in accordance with Article E.

a) It is each Player’s personal duty to ensure that no Prohibited Substance enters his body. A Player is responsible for any Prohibited Substance or its metabolites or Markers found to be present in his Specimen. Accordingly, it is not necessary that intent, fault, negligence or knowing Use on the Player’s part be demonstrated in order to establish a Doping Offense under Article C.1; nor is the Player’s lack of intent, fault, negligence or knowledge a defense to a charge that a Doping Offense has been committed under Article C.1.

Text of Anti-Doping rules from:

http://www.atptennis.com/en/common/TrackIt.asp?file=/en/antidoping/rules.pdf)

Federerthebest
12-01-2005, 06:20 AM
I was under the impression that we were discussing to what extent intent should be a matter of consideration when deciding the punitive measures applicable to a player who has comitted a doping offence, not what constitutes a doping offence. I am aware that to establish a doping offence that no fault, negligence or intent is necessary; but this is not true when judging the severity of the measures to be imposed on the offender. See, for example, section M.b) - "if the player establishes that he bears No Fault or Negligence for the doping offence, the player's individual results obtained in the Competition...shall not be Disqualified". So I'm not sure what you mean by stating that the 'beyond reasonable doubt' test is not applicable; I think you are addressing the wrong thing.

Baseline
12-01-2005, 06:40 AM
So I'm not sure what you mean by stating that the 'beyond reasonable doubt' test is not applicable; I think you are addressing the wrong thing.

My apologies - this thread has become so large I didn't read back far enough to get the true gist of that latest discussion, sorry! I don't know the standards used re: mitigating circumstances, so that may be the standard? I'll post later if I have a chance to check that out. Hopefully no one will need to even get to that point as it presumes a case is made.

Scotso
12-01-2005, 01:50 PM
Karol is playing.

Denaon
12-01-2005, 01:56 PM
:confused: I hope he and his team are deciding for both their best. I seriously want Slovakia to win this tie :smooch:

alfonsojose
12-01-2005, 02:49 PM
:angel: :drool:

El Legenda
12-01-2005, 04:39 PM
I seriously want Slovakia to win this tie :smooch:

:rolls: , its a big wish....

El Legenda
12-01-2005, 07:41 PM
...

that must be why the players voted for him as the Vice President of the players union, so yeah they put their future in his hands. must be a terrible person.

DrJules
12-01-2005, 07:47 PM
...

Your bigotry and xenophobia is not very pleasant :devil:

s.m.
12-01-2005, 11:13 PM
...

you comment is offending to all of croats on this forum
i donīt know what are moderators doing and why are they they allowing this on the forum

lau
12-01-2005, 11:17 PM
you comment is offending to all of croats on this forum
i donīt know what are moderators doing and why are they they allowing this on the forum
There`s a "Report Bad Post" link in every post if you think something like that shouldnīt be here ;)
Donīt expect the mods to read every single post in MTF.

s.m.
12-01-2005, 11:19 PM
There`s a "Report Bad Post" link in every post if you think something like that shouldnīt be here ;)
Donīt expect the mods to read every single post in MTF.

thanks
i have never used that so i didnīt know
guess there is first time for everything

maryjane2
12-01-2005, 11:21 PM
I'm sorry mike jones, I should have said that Ljubicic is one of the most disliked among the top players. I sure their votes were not decisive.

Horatio Caine
12-01-2005, 11:24 PM
Only 8 mens tennis players were ranked higher than him at the year end and he could be a Davis Cup winner in 1 week. :p
Please don't encourage them :rolleyes: :lol:

Horatio Caine
12-01-2005, 11:28 PM
Of course they would not have to prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt; they would have to prove it beyond reasonable doubt, the principle by which I am sure the ITF tribunal would operate. As for a judgement being only guesswork - why? You cannot make a statement such as this because you have no idea of what evidence is available.

Reasonable doubt - the subjective test no?

Here is my argument against you - how would performance - enhancing drugs help Beck out? What does he have to gain? His results are poor because of his lack of ability to stay with the top players week in week out, and his mental instability. How would drugs help him???

s.m.
12-01-2005, 11:32 PM
as far as i know, today was the first time that beck responded to doping allegations
he denied that he was positive

Horatio Caine
12-01-2005, 11:34 PM
Of course he was going to deny it...whether he deliberately took it or not! :lol:

I'm surprised he is playing this weekend. Seems that the Slovaks had all of us fooled.:haha: It wouldn't surprise me if Beck was practising at some other venue to make the prospect of him not playing look very real.

lau
12-01-2005, 11:40 PM
Of course he was going to deny it...whether he deliberately took it or not! :lol:


I donīt think that`s so obvious... He could have said "No comments" ;)


I'm surprised he is playing this weekend. Seems that the Slovaks had all of us fooled.:haha: It wouldn't surprise me if Beck was practising at some other venue to make the prospect of him not playing look very real.
:lol: Thatīs a pretty conspiracy theory :p

Horatio Caine
12-01-2005, 11:43 PM
I donīt think that`s so obvious... He could have said "No comments" ;)

:ras:

No player would risk saying that unless they really felt guilty...and that is like admitting it. Too damaging.

s.m.
12-01-2005, 11:48 PM
Seems that the Slovaks had all of us fooled.:haha:

i think mečir is a good tactician
beside players fight on the court, it will be good to see influence of pilić and mečir
and i think it will be big

maryjane2
12-02-2005, 12:00 AM
Reasonable doubt - the subjective test no?

Here is my argument against you - how would performance - enhancing drugs help Beck out? What does he have to gain? His results are poor because of his lack of ability to stay with the top players week in week out, and his mental instability. How would drugs help him???




Shocking - shows how much you know about tennis.

Federerthebest
12-02-2005, 12:04 AM
Here is my argument against you - how would performance - enhancing drugs help Beck out? What does he have to gain? His results are poor because of his lack of ability to stay with the top players week in week out, and his mental instability. How would drugs help him???

Beck is not accused of doping week-in-week-out, he is accused of doping prior to the Davis Cup tie; and it is interesting to note that his best performances this year have come in DC, with the win over Argentina perhaps his most impressive of them all. I'm not saying this proves that he doped, but it's an adequate rebuttal to your argument.

maryjane2
12-02-2005, 12:08 AM
I would like to mention that what Ivanisevic has done is an absolute disgrace. Coming back into the team and taking Sasa Tuksars spot after almost all the work has been done despite being of no real use for the team is a joke. Just to be on the winnig team but without deserving it. What a sportsman. I'll laugh and applaud if he actually plays in any of the matches.

maryjane2
12-02-2005, 12:13 AM
Beck is not accused of doping week-in-week-out, he is accused of doping prior to the Davis Cup tie; and it is interesting to note that his best performances this year have come in DC, with the win over Argentina perhaps his most impressive of them all. I'm not saying this proves that he doped, but it's an adequate rebuttal to your argument.


Interesting point

Scotso
12-02-2005, 12:17 AM
Beck denies doping rumour before Davis Cup final
Thu Dec 1, 2005 1:44 PM GMT
By Martyn Herman

BRATISLAVA, Dec 1 (Reuters) - Slovakia's number two Karol Beck denied failing a dope test earlier this year after being selected on Thursday to play in the Davis Cup final against Croatia.

On Wednesday rumours circulated concerning a possible positive test given by Beck during the semi-final against Argentina in Bratislava, prompting suggestions that 31-year-old Karol Kucera would play in his place.

Beck, the world number 57, had been a doubt for the tie after struggling to overcome a knee injury that has sidelined him since the St Petersburg Open in October.

However at Thursday's draw inside Bratislava Castle, Slovakia captain Miloslav Mecir picked Beck, who will open the tie on Friday against Croatia's world number nine Ivan Ljubicic.

Asked if he had given a positive test, Beck said: "No!"

Of the speculation, he added: "I wasn't surprised because I sort of expected this kind of issue. I have been dealing with this for over two weeks.

"I am concentrating on the match, I mean, I feel fine. I had trouble with my knee, it was aching quite a lot. But over the last few days things have improved significantly. I'm looking forward to the match and hope we win."

Mecir said he had decided his line-up on Thursday morning, adding that the rumours surrounding Beck had been an unfortunate distraction.

"It's really unpleasant to answer questions like this," the former U.S. Open runner-up said. "I don't know the source of the information.

"Definitely it brings an element of discomfort to the team, to the team spirit, but we try to overcome it with our spirit."

LOSING RECORD

Beck has a 1-3 losing record against Ljubicic and will have to break the Croat's 100 percent record in this year's competition if he is to give the hosts a winning start.

"Ljubicic is a great player, his indoor record is absolutely awesome," said 23-year-old Beck. "I have to play at my best to be able to beat him.

"But we also have to take into consideration that Davis Cup is different. There is the psychological element. I will do my best and we'll see what comes out of it."

Providing his knee injury does not flare up, Beck will play in Saturday's doubles with Michal Mertinak and face Mario Ancic in the second reverse singles on Sunday.

Jim Jones
12-02-2005, 12:26 AM
I would like to mention that what Ivanisevic has done is an absolute disgrace. Coming back into the team and taking Sasa Tuksars spot after almost all the work has been done despite being of no real use for the team is a joke. Just to be on the winnig team but without deserving it. What a sportsman. I'll laugh and applaud if he actually plays in any of the matches.
Ivanisevic has won 9 doubles titles and if he plays it would be most likely for the doubles if Ancic or Lujbicic cannot play. Karlovic is hopless no way will he play. It is easier to play doubles after a long lay off than singles. Andres Gomez who retired still played Davis Cup doubles and was winning matches. As for Tuskar he replaced Karanusic as the 3rth player but I don't see you saying that he 'stole' his place. Ivanisevic won his last Davis cup doubles match in 2003. What has Tuskar done? Nothing much.

maryjane2
12-02-2005, 02:53 AM
This is not about Tuksar but about Gorans selfish ways. Ivanisevic had officially retired 18 months ago and had no interest to be on the team in the prior rounds and that to me is enough to make him a joke. The fact is that he is of no real use and the whole thing is a joke.

Carlita
12-02-2005, 11:22 AM
The Slovak Republic has made a change in player nomination for singles in the 2005 Davis Cup by BNP Paribas Final.

Karol Kucera replaces Karol Beck due to a left knee injury. Davis Cup by BNP Paribas rules allow the Referee to sanction a change of nomination after the draw for the first or second singles rubbers if a player is, in the Referee's opinion, incapacitated by illness, injury, or other unavoidable hindrance.

Kucera also replaces Beck for the fifth singles rubber on Sunday, but Beck remains nominated for the doubles on Saturday.

The order of play is now as follows:

Karol Kucera (SVK) v Ivan Ljubicic (CRO)
Dominik Hrbaty (SVK) v Mario Ancic (CRO)
Karol Beck/Michael Mertinak (SVK) v Mario Ancic/Ivan Ljubicic (CRO)
Dominik Hrbaty (SVK) v Ivan Ljubicic (CRO)
Karol Kucera (SVK) v Mario Ancic (CRO)

FrogBurger
12-02-2005, 11:54 AM
dont know if it was reported, but 20minutes daily french journal reports Karol enjoys the M A R I J A W A N A! I wonder if the supply is good in his country?

sigmagirl91
12-02-2005, 12:00 PM
dont know if it was reported, but 20minutes daily french journal reports Karol enjoys the M A R I J A W A N A! I wonder if the supply is good in his country?

:eek: Really? Get outta here!!!

Guybrush
12-02-2005, 12:05 PM
...

Blah blah blah...

Guybrush
12-02-2005, 12:09 PM
I would like to mention that what Ivanisevic has done is an absolute disgrace. Coming back into the team and taking Sasa Tuksars spot after almost all the work has been done despite being of no real use for the team is a joke. Just to be on the winnig team but without deserving it. What a sportsman. I'll laugh and applaud if he actually plays in any of the matches.

Sasa Tuksar in Davis Cup final would be a joke :haha:

Goran is MUCH MUCH MUCH better then Sasa, so his spot in the team is well earned :worship:

Horatio Caine
12-02-2005, 12:15 PM
Shocking - shows how much you know about tennis.

:confused: I know plenty on tennis...more than 80% people on these boards

Horatio Caine
12-02-2005, 12:17 PM
Beck is not accused of doping week-in-week-out, he is accused of doping prior to the Davis Cup tie; and it is interesting to note that his best performances this year have come in DC, with the win over Argentina perhaps his most impressive of them all. I'm not saying this proves that he doped, but it's an adequate rebuttal to your argument.
Yep - his best performance comes in a match against Argentina on a fast court which I'd certainly expect him to win. I mean Coria is hardly an indoor God is he?

Guybrush
12-02-2005, 12:17 PM
This is not about Tuksar but about Gorans selfish ways. Ivanisevic had officially retired 18 months ago and had no interest to be on the team in the prior rounds and that to me is enough to make him a joke. The fact is that he is of no real use and the whole thing is a joke.

Do you know that Goran was ALWAYS with the DC team in the previous matches? He is always sitting with the players and cheering with them. The only difference this way that he can play. But he will probably not.

Goran would probably play the DC final in 1990 with Yugoslavia, but he hasn't (we all know why). So this way he has a second chance that will repay him for that lost occasion.

maryjane2 you are ridicolous with your statments. I know that is difficult to accept that your nation will probably lost the DC final at home, but spitting on the opponents shows how little person you are. Be ashamed! :o

*Ljubica*
12-02-2005, 12:18 PM
:confused: I know plenty on tennis...more than 80% people on these boards

I agree with you Jez - and I'm very surprised maryjane2 hasn't gone red yet with all these disgraceful racist comments. I am totally neutral in this Final - hope it is a good tie and let the best team win - but - honestly - her comments are appalling :devil:

Horatio Caine
12-02-2005, 12:19 PM
Ivanisevic has won 9 doubles titles and if he plays it would be most likely for the doubles if Ancic or Lujbicic cannot play. Karlovic is hopless no way will he play. It is easier to play doubles after a long lay off than singles. Andres Gomez who retired still played Davis Cup doubles and was winning matches. As for Tuskar he replaced Karanusic as the 3rth player but I don't see you saying that he 'stole' his place. Ivanisevic won his last Davis cup doubles match in 2003. What has Tuskar done? Nothing much.

Karlovic could do his team proud in doubles...and he has beaten Hrbaty in singles too. I wouldn't feel all that uncomfortable playing him in any match this weekend...his serve is the best on tour.

Horatio Caine
12-02-2005, 12:21 PM
I agree with you Jez - and I'm very surprised maryjane2 hasn't gone red yet with all these disgraceful racist comments. I am totally neutral in this Final - hope it is a good tie and let the best team win - but - honestly - her comments are appalling :devil:

:lol: She is a "who are you???" person to me...never come across her! :lol:

Yep - may the best team win...but Croatia are definitely stronger favourites now :devil: :devil:

CooCooCachoo
12-02-2005, 12:23 PM
Ivanisevic has won 9 doubles titles and if he plays it would be most likely for the doubles if Ancic or Lujbicic cannot play. Karlovic is hopless no way will he play. It is easier to play doubles after a long lay off than singles. Andres Gomez who retired still played Davis Cup doubles and was winning matches. As for Tuskar he replaced Karanusic as the 3rth player but I don't see you saying that he 'stole' his place. Ivanisevic won his last Davis cup doubles match in 2003. What has Tuskar done? Nothing much.

In all fairness, Andres Gomez did not play at a very high level during his latest ties ;)

CooCooCachoo
12-02-2005, 12:24 PM
:lol: She is a "who are you???" person to me...never come across her! :lol:

Yep - may the best team win...but Croatia are definitely stronger favourites now :devil: :devil:

May Slovakia win, now Kucera is playing :eek: :inlove: :drool:

Baseline
12-02-2005, 02:10 PM
Yep - his best performance comes in a match against Argentina on a fast court which I'd certainly expect him to win. I mean Coria is hardly an indoor God is he?

Any opportunity to bash Coria, huh? Regardless of Coria's level, you can not deny that Beck played extremely well in his match against Coria. Well, you can deny it, but the evidence is in the performance which was spectacular. Coria wasn't playing great, but Beck's win wasn't a case of a mediocre Beck beating a weak Coria. Beck played amazingly well. That does NOT prove he was doping, however. Whether or not he was should be determined by more objective factors, such as the actual test results and not the opinions of people who are fans or haters of various players.

*Ljubica*
12-02-2005, 02:42 PM
Any opportunity to bash Coria, huh? Regardless of Coria's level, you can not deny that Beck played extremely well in his match against Coria. Well, you can deny it, but the evidence is in the performance which was spectacular. Coria wasn't playing great, but Beck's win wasn't a case of a mediocre Beck beating a weak Coria. Beck played amazingly well. That does NOT prove he was doping, however. Whether or not he was should be determined by more objective factors, such as the actual test results and not the opinions of people who are fans or haters of various players.

I don't tink Jez was "bashing" Coria in this instance - he was just stating the truth. Coria is one of the best clay court players around, but he hardly excels on fast, hard surfaces and admits it himself. Of course Beck played well in that match but he is a "streaky" player who has achieved excellent results before - and - sorry - Coria is weak on fast surfaces - especialy recently.

El Legenda
12-02-2005, 03:13 PM
im disappointed with the Slovaks, switching between Beck and Kucera 3 times day before the match, just cheap.

El Legenda
12-02-2005, 03:24 PM
According to Ivanisevic in post Ljubicic match interview, he says he heard that Beck pulled out cuz of testing positive,

ill try to find link to it ASAP

hitchhiker
12-02-2005, 03:27 PM
Coria wasn't playing great

since when is beating Coria who isn't playing great on a fast indoor court out of the ordinary?

maryjane2
12-02-2005, 09:42 PM
Hey Jez, saying that Becks results are poor is a very good example of how little you know about tennis.

maryjane2
12-02-2005, 09:44 PM
where is the link mike?

shotgun
12-02-2005, 09:57 PM
dont know if it was reported, but 20minutes daily french journal reports Karol enjoys the M A R I J A W A N A! I wonder if the supply is good in his country?

I read this rumour, too. I think it's no big deal, since it's not a performance enhancer, but then again it's a prohibited substance. If this is true, then he'll probably get a light suspension.

maryjane2
12-02-2005, 10:02 PM
the supply is not bad and karol should now his limits and how much time he needs before competiton to get it out of his system. Damn him!

s.m.
12-02-2005, 10:13 PM
mečir has announced that beck will not play tommorow
hrbaty is the most likely candidate to replace him
he added that beck is likely out for at least 2 weeks because of muscle injury on his leg

almouchie
12-02-2005, 11:10 PM
More unsubstantiated allegations. :mad:

exactly
its disreptive & unfair to the players on the tour
a better PR & communicatio & framework should be put in place
how is it that u hear a player is apparently tested positively & then nothing really happens
which is it are the players really using drugs
or tournes & tour making stuff up
btw what ever happend to G. Canas ? banned is he
something is surely wrong. it cannt be that all argentinian are using drugs

Baseline
12-03-2005, 03:57 AM
since when is beating Coria who isn't playing great on a fast indoor court out of the ordinary?
For this season it isn't out of the ordinary - not sure anyone was claiming it was? Dismiss him against Coria if you like, but Beck also outplayed the Argentines in the doubles match too (against Nalbandian). Again, that does not prove he was playing well because he was enhanced and I refuse to make an assumption as to why he played well when there is nothing but unsubstantiated allegations backing it up. I just think an objective review of his performance should admit he played above his usual tour level - although you have to keep in mind that Beck beat Nalbandian on hard courts before USO as well. He was undoubtedly working hard to prepare for DC, so he may have raised his level.

As for Coria's ability to play fast hard courts, he is undoubtedly indoor-fast court challenged now in large part due to his recent service problems. To claim otherwise I would have to lie and although I'm a fan, I like to take into account the facts every now and then too.

Coria is weak on the fastest hard courts, but his past record on hard courts and indoor courts that are moderately fast is at least pretty good. He's undoubtedly not an indoor court god, but he did win the Basel title in 03 after Nalbandian withdrew with injury (he did make it to the final the hard way, lol). He did poorly in Marseille in 03 & 05, but made 2 USO QFs, R16 at AO losing to Nalb this year, and finals in Miami and China Open.

I don't know why I feel the need to point this stuff out, except perhaps to counteract the extremes the press and fans go to in applauding or trashing players. As soon as a player has a patchy period people start to forget any of their accomplishements, and when a player is on a winning streak they can do no wrong and all their past failures are forgotten - take Ginepri e.g. it was like he was reborn this year, at least until Paris when memories of his past resurfaced. Just a plea for a more balanced assessment and not just for Coria.

Baseline
12-03-2005, 04:03 AM
I read this rumour, too. I think it's no big deal, since it's not a performance enhancer

The only benefit I could see is in its calming effects, to reduce the tension of the charged atmosphere so you could play without getting too tense - forget your troubles, come on get happy sort of thing. I'm not saying I buy into this rumour - IMO it's kind of odd and not compelling at this point.

El Legenda
12-03-2005, 04:21 AM
Hey Jez, saying that Becks results are poor is a very good example of how little you know about tennis.

20-27, really good :rolleyes:

Federerthebest
12-03-2005, 04:33 AM
The only benefit I could see is in its calming effects, to reduce the tension of the charged atmosphere so you could play without getting too tense - forget your troubles, come on get happy sort of thing.

This is quite true, though cannabis is meant to increase heart rate and blood pressure, so I'm thinking it would overall have an adverse effect on a person's ability to physically exert himself...

El Legenda
12-03-2005, 05:27 AM
He will probly get a 3week to 6 week suspension, nothing big, might be back for AO, if this goes anywhere.

Baseline
12-03-2005, 05:16 PM
This is quite true, though cannabis is meant to increase heart rate and blood pressure, so I'm thinking it would overall have an adverse effect on a person's ability to physically exert himself...

And he seemed to have no trouble exerting himself which is part of why the rumour seems odd IMO. I don't know enough about the medical effects to say. I very much doubt anything will come of this, but if it did I can't imagine the tennis establishment moving on it before, oh say late spring, so even if it were true it's not likely to affect AO 06.

shotgun
12-03-2005, 05:56 PM
And he seemed to have no trouble exerting himself which is part of why the rumour seems odd IMO. I don't know enough about the medical effects to say. I very much doubt anything will come of this, but if it did I can't imagine the tennis establishment moving on it before, oh say late spring, so even if it were true it's not likely to affect AO 06.

I doubt that he smoked pot right before his DC matches, he wouldn't be so stupid to do so. :lol:

IF this rumours are true, he probably did it some days before, as the marijuana residues usually take 3 to 5 days to be totally expelled from the human body.

OddJob
01-31-2006, 12:10 PM
oh Becky say it ain't so! :sad: :sad: :o

Vorteil
01-31-2006, 12:30 PM
I knew he were doped. Where are stars now? In the dope show - Marilyn Mason'

German stars like Kiefer and Haas fighting against dopers..makes me sick!

Scotso
01-31-2006, 01:11 PM
I don't believe he would have done it purposefully, but I'm disappointed.

R.Federer
01-31-2006, 01:34 PM
I would like to believe he did not take knowingly any drugs
But the problem is that no player found taking perform-enhancing dope has said it was taken knowingly
If it is pot, or recreation drug of other type, I think they must go easi on him
Otherwise, he is definitely to face a ban in fairness to all

Peoples
01-31-2006, 01:48 PM
If he's a cheater then he should get a long ban of course. During the tie with Argentina?? Did Beck steal their drugs which were left unattended or something?

Melekhin
01-31-2006, 02:16 PM
yweeeeh in russians news papers this info is already realised

Karol :sad:

Rogiman
01-31-2006, 02:53 PM
Poor guy, I hope it turns out to be nothing.

DrJules
01-31-2006, 10:16 PM
If he's a cheater then he should get a long ban of course. During the tie with Argentina?? Did Beck steal their drugs which were left unattended or something?

Both teams had a player who failed a drug test in 2005; Puerta and Beck. Has this happened before?

El Legenda
01-31-2006, 10:18 PM
I don't believe he would have done it purposefully, but I'm disappointed.

:haha:

right

:haha:

buddyholly
02-01-2006, 08:45 AM
If he's a cheater then he should get a long ban of course. During the tie with Argentina?? Did Beck steal their drugs which were left unattended or something?

I was about to say that just breathing the air on court would probably have made him positive.