Nadal criticizes TMC Shanghai courts [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Nadal criticizes TMC Shanghai courts

rofe
11-11-2005, 05:54 PM
Its in Spanish and my Spanish skills are non-existent but someone in another forum translated this:

http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/story?id=381107

Nadal has been speaking out about the court for this years Masters Cup. He says the surface will not create a spectacle for the fans, points will be very short and that it favours Ljubicic heavily.

He feels it is not right for the Masters Cup to be played on a surface like this when there are only 2 or 3 courts comparable to it over the course of the year. He says it is a lack of respect to Tennis.

He went onto say, it doesn't make sense that he comes to the Masters Cup as the no2 player in the world, but then put him on a surface that would likely not even have him in the top 15.

He says further, when a player plays and loses, ok, but is it right at this kind of stage for a player to feel he has lost before the match has even begun?

He ended by saying he expects his knees to hold up on the court, and that he doesn't consider himself as Federer's rival, but the rival of any player he steps out on court with.

El Legenda
11-11-2005, 05:55 PM
quit bitching.

adee-gee
11-11-2005, 05:58 PM
quit bitching.
wow Ljubo has never complained about anything in his life has he :rolleyes:

El Legenda
11-11-2005, 06:00 PM
wow Ljubo has never complained about anything in his life has he :rolleyes:

Do you ever hear him bitch about no Indoor GS or playing on clay?

ExpectedWinner
11-11-2005, 06:02 PM
He went onto say, it doesn't make sense that he comes to the Masters Cup as the no2 player in the world, but then put him on a surface that would likely not even have him in the top 15.




Who in his group belongs to top 15 on this surface at the moment? I'm a very tolerant person, but shut up already.

tennisinparis
11-11-2005, 06:03 PM
everyone has there favorite surface, and unfortunately we cannot satisfy everyone. everyone bitches about certain parts of tennis, and really, it just doesn't matter. i find that rafa isn't stating anything but the truth, and truth or not, he will have to play on this surface. i am sure he will try hard, but I doubt he expects too much to win the tournament. oh well, as long as he learns from it and grows in some manner. i think now that marat is out, it has to heavily favor ivan ljubicic, but we will see if can show up.

adee-gee
11-11-2005, 06:05 PM
Do you ever hear him bitch about no Indoor GS or playing on clay?
No but I hear him bitch about too many tournaments being played in the US, and the only reason Roddick is high in the world is because he gets favourable line calls from home judges.

shotgun
11-11-2005, 06:07 PM
I think he's right. The surface here should be similar to the one used in the Madrid AMS. A not-so-fast hard court, which is more democratic, since it allows both clay-courters and fast-courters to play in equal conditions. And considering the TMC field this year, this concern gets even more important. Helding a TMC on carpet is as stupid as helding it on grass or on clay.

virex
11-11-2005, 06:15 PM
a madrid type court would be better for nadal
i think the most honest would be a hard court like in the us open series.
but the level of bitching about the court is too high this year.

El Legenda
11-11-2005, 06:19 PM
No but I hear him bitch about too many tournaments being played in the US, and the only reason Roddick is high in the world is because he gets favourable line calls from home judges.

he's not the only one, and what does that have to do with Nadal bitching about the TMC surface?

Galaxystorm
11-11-2005, 06:21 PM
Federer doesn't like the surface either

PaulieM
11-11-2005, 06:23 PM
again?

mangoes
11-11-2005, 06:24 PM
Federer has commented about the surface too. I think when the two most dominant players are uneasy about the court, that is something.......... Here is the link to an article posted today making reference to his comments.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&grid=&xml=/sport/2005/11/11/stfede11.xml

Federer fretting over injury
By Mark Hodgkinson in Shanghai
(Filed: 11/11/2005)

Roger Federer had previously been experiencing "a strange feeling" during his training sessions here, and yesterday the Swiss admitted that his recent ankle injury may prevent him from defending his title at the Masters Cup, a tournament that is supposed to be an exhibition of the finest that tennis can offer.

A strong hint of vulnerability from the world No 1 was to be expected. At one stage there was a fear that he would not even make it to China. Federer damaged ligaments in his right ankle after a training mishap four weeks ago, he was left walking on crutches and forced to cancel three tournaments on his schedule. His opening group match will be his first competitive tennis for more than a month - he has not played since defeating Scotland's Andy Murray in the Bangkok final.

Worryingly for locals and tournament officials, who have already lost three headline names in Marat Safin, Lleyton Hewitt and Andy Roddick, Federer was yesterday talking of how "health comes before success". The last thing the Chinese need now is Federer hobbling and shuffling away from the Qi Zhong Stadium, a futuristic, 15,000-seat arena that has been built specially for the Masters Cup. Federer is meant to be the star of the show, which starts on Sunday.

Federer, who is attempting to win his third successive Masters Cup title, said: "I don't know the chances of me winning here because of my foot. I'm here to defend the title but health comes before success. I just hope that I can play my first match without any pain."

Federer said he was not pleased with the type of hard court that has been laid at the Qi Zhong Stadium. "I am not a huge fan of the surface. It makes me feel strange, and it just doesn't take my spin the way I would like it to. I hope I will get comfortable with it after a few more practice sessions," said Federer, who has been accompanied by his part-time coach, Australian Tony Roche.

El Legenda
11-11-2005, 06:25 PM
I think the reason its the surface that it is, because the season ends on that surface, and players are use to it, if the season ended on outdoor hourcourts, it would be that, and weather also has a say in it,

adee-gee
11-11-2005, 06:26 PM
he's not the only one, and what does that have to do with Nadal bitching about the TMC surface?
I'm pointing out if Ljubicic complained, I doubt you'd be having a go at him.

El Legenda
11-11-2005, 06:28 PM
I'm pointing out if Ljubicic complained, I doubt you'd be having a go at him.

I doubt Ljubicic would be do that with this surface, if it was clay, he would, with 3 or 4 other guys.

Galaxystorm
11-11-2005, 06:28 PM
Although it's true that TMC should be played on a neutral surface for the players ( hard courts ) and Nadal is right about it , Nadal should shut his mouth because he and his uncle already complained about the court several times and every time he complains he seems a whinning girl, so shut your mouth and play . You can't be complaining the rest of your life :o

mangoes
11-11-2005, 06:29 PM
I think the reason its the surface that it is, because the season ends on that surface, and players are use to it, if the season ended on outdoor hourcourts, it would be that, and weather also has a say in it,


I don't think the surface is like that of Paris or Madrid, so that's technically not ending on a similar surface. But, I'm no expert on that so someone with more knowledge, feel free to explain please.

El Legenda
11-11-2005, 06:29 PM
I don't think the surface is like that of Paris or Madrid, so that's technically not ending on a similar surface. But, I'm no expert on that so someone with more knowledge, feel free to explain please.

the surface is same as Paris, made by same company.

adee-gee
11-11-2005, 06:30 PM
I doubt Ljubicic would be do that with this surface, if it was clay, he would, with 3 or 4 other guys.
:secret: I think Roddick pulled out because he was scared he would draw Ljubicic btw.

TenHound
11-11-2005, 06:33 PM
Girls don't "whine" any more than boys. :(

Galaxystorm
11-11-2005, 06:37 PM
Girls don't "whine" any more than boys. :(

I didn't wanna be a male chauvinist :hug: , i was just translating literally into english an idiom

sweetiepiedoll
11-11-2005, 06:38 PM
If Rafa doesn't like the courts he could always just go home to Mallorca with his girlfriend.

Jimnik
11-11-2005, 06:40 PM
Nadal is right. The surface should be medium-hard or fast-clay.

adee-gee
11-11-2005, 06:41 PM
Girls don't "whine" any more than boys. :(
:haha:

shotgun
11-11-2005, 06:43 PM
I think the reason its the surface that it is, because the season ends on that surface, and players are use to it, if the season ended on outdoor hourcourts, it would be that, and weather also has a say in it,

This still doesn't convince me. They would have a week to re-adapt to hard courts, and none of them would have any surface advantage, since all of them would be coming from the same carpet season.

El Legenda
11-11-2005, 06:43 PM
:haha:

hey adam, according to your sig, Ljubo is best player in world and im the best poster on MTF :)

nobama
11-11-2005, 06:46 PM
Well he may be right, but he and Toni need to quit bitching about it. I hope they don't use that as an excuse if he goes out early. Fed was asked about the surface and said it's not his favorite, but once the tournament started he would be fine and used to it. Hopefully the ATP will chose something different next year (if it's easy to replace). But it's what we've got so the players should shut up about it or go home then if they hate it that much.

adee-gee
11-11-2005, 06:46 PM
hey adam, according to your sig, Ljubo is best player in world and im the best poster on MTF :)
Nadal is the best player in the world. And you're an exception to the rule :ras:

1sun
11-11-2005, 06:48 PM
he has a right to his own opinion

mallorn
11-11-2005, 07:07 PM
Well, I just read a post over at VR.com. Someone translated a short TV interview with Rafa where he says he’s only won two matches on this type of surface in his life and that he’d rather play on grass :eek:
No wonder he doesn’t like it, but he’s said several times that he’s going to try his best and learn from this.
Original post (http://vamosrafael.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=1859&start=540&sid=83e030baff34ea37d619c2531ff68d6e)

Scotso
11-11-2005, 07:17 PM
Tell 'em, Rafa.

It's not fair. The court should be a median one where all concerned could play well. It *IS* the masters. Culminating a tour that plays on MANY surfaces. It should honor that.

Jimnik
11-11-2005, 07:20 PM
I'd love to compare everybody's reaction if the courts were clay.

Baseline
11-11-2005, 07:22 PM
See below interview with Muster - seems even Sampras went on record as not liking Teraflex, the same surface used in Shanghai this year. I believe the ATP changed the surface for 1997, so maybe if the players formally object this time the ATP might listen???

Not all carpets are the same, and an ultra-fast carpet is not the same as a fast hard court. Teraflex doesn't seem to be favored by many ATP players - probably only Ljubicic likes it out of the 8 this year?

Makes me wonder about the details of the deal between the ATP and Gerflor which was made during the ATP's Miles era - perhaps things will improve under the new management. It's about time the supposed players's association actually represented the players.

_______________________________

1996 ATP WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP - HANNOVER, GERMANY
November 22, 1996 - An interview with: THOMAS MUSTER

Q. Even Sampras was saying that he thought the surface was too fast.

THOMAS MUSTER: I think all players agreed. I think they signed a
paper, all of us, that this tournament should be played on hard court.
And, I think it has a pretty good chance next year ATP Tour Finals is
going to be played on hard surface like the U.S. Open or something
similar.


Q. You are saying that even Teraflex is not slow enough? You want it
to be --

THOMAS MUSTER: Not me. Everybody. All of us agreed, yeah, this should be.


Q. Like a cement sort of surface?

THOMAS MUSTER: Right.


Q. When was this thing submitted this letter or --

THOMAS MUSTER: Today. And, I think it was signed by everybody.

http://www.asapsports.com/tennis/199.../112296TM.html
_____________________________
From the Gerflor Website:

"Gerflor's Taraflex will become the `Official ATP Court Surface.'The
ATP also has selected Taraflex as the court surface for the Tennis
Masters Cup Shanghai from 2005-2007. The event, which is co-owned by
the ATP, ITF and Grand Slams, will be played at the new $200 million
Qi Zhong Tennis Center in Shanghai, China."

prima donna
11-11-2005, 07:39 PM
A great player would conform to the conditions and find a way to have success, instead he's throwing a hissy fit. Someone find him a pair of tights and a skirt, Houston, I think we have a bitch, I repeat we have a bitch. :wavey:

Scotso
11-11-2005, 07:41 PM
I'd love to compare everybody's reaction if the courts were clay.

They would, no doubt, be bitching that it was unfair. :)

Scotso
11-11-2005, 07:41 PM
A great player would conform to the conditions and find a way to have success, instead he's throwing a hissy fit. Someone find him a pair of tights and a skirt, Houston, I think we have a bitch, I repeat we have a bitch. :wavey:

As if you were capable of an objective opinion?

shotgun
11-11-2005, 07:42 PM
A great player would conform to the conditions and find a way to have success, instead he's throwing a hissy fit. Someone find him a pair of tights and a skirt, Houston, I think we have a bitch, I repeat we have a bitch. :wavey:

:lol:

nobama
11-11-2005, 07:49 PM
Nothing they can do about the courts now, so Rafa's just got to get over it and do the best he can. How is all this downplaying by him and Toni doing his head and his confidence any good. :shrug:

s.m.
11-11-2005, 07:53 PM
quit bitching.

agree
nadal is acting like a bitchy bitch
stop bitching and start playing

Scotso
11-11-2005, 07:53 PM
Nothing they can do about the courts now, so Rafa's just got to get over it and do the best he can. How is all this downplaying by him and Toni doing his head and his confidence any good. :shrug:

If Rafael didn't intend to get over it and play, he wouldn't have shown up. He is well aware they can't change the courts now, but maybe he can make them think about selecting a different surface for next year.

Scotso
11-11-2005, 07:55 PM
It's hilarious that Ljubicic fans are telling Nadal to stop bitching.

s.m.
11-11-2005, 07:58 PM
No but I hear him bitch about too many tournaments being played in the US, and the only reason Roddick is high in the world is because he gets favourable line calls from home judges.


if you think that ivan thinks about roddick then you are deluding yourself

Saumon
11-11-2005, 07:58 PM
Scott, when will you marry me? :kiss:

Scotso
11-11-2005, 08:01 PM
Scott, when will you marry me? :kiss:

When polygamy becomes legal? :p :sad:

I'm already married :o

jacobhiggins
11-11-2005, 08:01 PM
Nada's camp is whining and complaining while Federer, not liking the surface, did not make a big deal about it, he will go out there and probablly win it. Toni really should stop with this kind of talk, it makes him, Nadal's camp, and Rafa look bad!

s.m.
11-11-2005, 08:03 PM
It's hilarious that Ljubicic fans are telling Nadal to stop bitching.

i donīt know why he is singled out ivan
is he the only player on masters :confused:
obviously he is quite afraid of him if he mentiones ivan who is not even in the same group as he
nice to know that

Saumon
11-11-2005, 08:06 PM
When polygamy becomes legal? :p :sad:

I'm already married :o
married?? :speakles: :bigcry: :hysteric: :crying2:

tangerine_dream
11-11-2005, 08:20 PM
A great player would conform to the conditions and find a way to have success, instead he's throwing a hissy fit. Someone find him a pair of tights and a skirt, Houston, I think we have a bitch, I repeat we have a bitch. :wavey:
You can always tell who the trolls are around here: they turn off their rep buttons now. :lol:

Scotso
11-11-2005, 08:22 PM
Nada's camp is whining and complaining while Federer, not liking the surface, did not make a big deal about it, he will go out there and probablly win it. Toni really should stop with this kind of talk, it makes him, Nadal's camp, and Rafa look bad!

Why would Federer not like it?

Scotso
11-11-2005, 08:22 PM
i donīt know why he is singled out ivan
is he the only player on masters :confused:
obviously he is quite afraid of him if he mentiones ivan who is not even in the same group as he
nice to know that

Because Ivan fans are telling Nadal to stop bitching when Ivan is the king of bitching?

Scotso
11-11-2005, 08:23 PM
married?? :speakles: :bigcry: :hysteric: :crying2:

:hug:

El Legenda
11-11-2005, 08:24 PM
You can always tell who the trolls are around here: they turn off their rep buttons now. :lol:

:hearts:

nobama
11-11-2005, 08:42 PM
Why would Federer not like it?He says it doesn't take his 'spins' the way he would like. But I haven't heard him say it was too fast.

NYCtennisfan
11-11-2005, 09:46 PM
The fact of the matter is that the YEC has almost always been played on this type of surface. We have had a few exceptions lately but overall, it has been the fast carpet.

The thing is that carpet is not a surface that many players even get a chance to play on much which is much different from the past years when many, many tourneys were played on carpet.

Also different is the Year End Championship approach. The points leaders, the race to #1, etc. It didn't used to be that way. The Masters or World Championships was simply a culmination of a distinct indoor season where tourneys were played on carpet. It wasn't looked upon as much as the culmination of a tennis season per se.

With the focus now on the end to a season, there should be heavy consideration about rotating surfaces now that the indoor carpet season basically doesn't exist or exists in two tournaments.

Horatio Caine
11-11-2005, 10:25 PM
Do you ever hear him bitch about no Indoor GS or playing on clay?

Do you hear Henman bitching about that, or Rusedski? ;)

mallorn
11-11-2005, 11:15 PM
The fact of the matter is that the YEC has almost always been played on this type of surface. We have had a few exceptions lately but overall, it has been the fast carpet.
The fact that something happens frequently does not make it right, right? ;)

(I've been misunderstood here more than once, so let me explain right away that I'm not saying that you think it does.)

With the focus now on the end to a season, there should be heavy consideration about rotating surfaces now that the indoor carpet season basically doesn't exist or exists in two tournaments.
Hear, hear. Or choose the most neutral surface and stick with it. Consulting the players might be a good idea.

I’m more than a bit surprised about this article posted by rofe because some days ago Rafa seemed to be trying to smooth what Toni said over, and yesterday he said “It's not worth talking about this subject anymore.” (here (http://vamosrafael.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=1859&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=500)) Hmm, it seems that he changed his mind today and was quite outspoken about it, there are a couple of articles translated by VR.com posters here (http://vamosrafael.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=1859&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=580&sid=75cd512d71c381cfe461e8a2d99f4758). He obviously can’t get over it, i.e. it’s bothering him a lot. :shrug:

RaVeR
11-11-2005, 11:17 PM
pfff Nadal :rolleyes::rolleyes:

calm down :fiery:

nobama
11-11-2005, 11:36 PM
They should just choose a neutral surface, like a slow/medium paced hard court. What is the surface used in Madrid?

star
11-12-2005, 12:13 AM
:bigclap: Rafael

Deboogle!.
11-12-2005, 12:21 AM
Not that I diagree with him in theory .....but.....He feels it is not right for the Masters Cup to be played on a surface like this when there are only 2 or 3 courts comparable to it over the course of the year. He says it is a lack of respect to Tennis. by this logic, Wimbledon is a disrespect to tennis too :o

hitchhiker
11-12-2005, 12:23 AM
so many people on this forum need to grow the fuck up

G O
11-12-2005, 01:20 AM
This is absolutely hilarious. While the Chinese are gloating over their new $150m 80acre stadium they forgot to consider the most important part...the court. Typical of them.

And three of the five players they have plasterd all over this beautiful city on ridiculously large billboards won't be participating :lol: not their fault but still funny. You know, I'm starting to feel sorry for the promoters of this event.


BEIJING 2008!!!!

prima donna
11-12-2005, 01:20 AM
Not that I diagree with him in theory .....but.....by this logic, Wimbledon is a disrespect to tennis too :o
:cuckoo: would describe his theory.

PaulieM
11-12-2005, 01:42 AM
it's fine that he dislikes the surface. but didn't he and his camp already say something about this earlier? is this a new article? if it is then i can understand some annoyance, you can make your feelings known once but to keep repeating it and talking about having bad training sessions makes it seem like you're whining. everyone deals with the same conditions, if enough of the players don't like the surface then hopefully after the tournament they can get together and make their concerns known, and something can be done about it for next year. :shrug:

stebs
11-12-2005, 08:38 AM
what a moaner. Rafa needs to explain himself more. all it sounds like he is saying is that the court is unfair because it doesnt favour him.

s.m.
11-12-2005, 11:54 AM
madrid is much faster than this court, and nadal won there, and won against ljubicic
so itīs ludacris to speak that shanghai surface suits ivan and his style of game
it suits much more to nadal, gaudio or coria
but nadal obviously needs to make for himself some kind of alibi in case he fails in this tournament
or uncle tony just got carried away a little

Deboogle!.
11-12-2005, 03:10 PM
This is absolutely hilarious. While the Chinese are gloating over their new $150m 80acre stadium they forgot to consider the most important part...the court. Typical of them. I believe the ATP is mostly responsible for the actual court/surface. They are the ones who made the deal regarding what surface it would be, etc. The Shanghai organization is not.

Anyway, there are exactly the same # of tournaments on carpet and grass (according to the ATP calendar) - 6. WHERE IS THE OUTCRY THAT GRASS IS A DISRESPECT TO THE SPORT :mad:

Scotso
11-12-2005, 03:17 PM
Well if you're really that eager Deb, then I'll renew my arguments for dumping clay on the courts of Wimbledon. :D

star
11-12-2005, 03:59 PM
I think tennis should only be played on natural surfaces like grass, clay, and uh.... cement. ;)

star
11-12-2005, 04:00 PM
Anyway, Scott, I can't rep you anymore than I already have. :fiery:

Deboogle!.
11-12-2005, 05:32 PM
Well if you're really that eager Deb, then I'll renew my arguments for dumping clay on the courts of Wimbledon. :D:p

Castafiore
11-12-2005, 07:09 PM
Found this quote from the newspaper Diario de Mallorca on VR.com
ATP admits their mistake

The ATP has now admitted that it was a mistake to permit such a fast surface. "It was a decision taken by our principal sponsor. The tournament shall be very closely observed, not just for the players but above all to see if the surface aids the spectacle," said Benito Pérez Barbadillo, the ATP spokesman. "A change of surface is being considered for the next editions," he added. Shangai will also be the venue for the Masters Cup in 2006 and 2007.

star
11-12-2005, 07:24 PM
Who is the principal sponsor?

alfonsojose
11-12-2005, 07:59 PM
A good tennis player plays good everywhere. A specialist complains :ras:

Clara Bow
11-12-2005, 08:34 PM
I'm a big Rafa fan but I do wish he would pipe down a bit about the surface. I do think he has a legitimate concern in that maybe the court should be a moderate suface (at least in my opinion). That way it doesn't favor specialists on either side- be it slow or fast courts. Still- Rafa has already said his piece and should maybe pipe down now. He seems to be more and more frustrated after his practice sessions and that frustration is showing that he in some ways is still indeed very much a 19-year old. :p If they want to formalize a complaint maybe they could do something that was done in the 1990s when a number of players including Sampras and Muster did a formal complaint about the surface (this same surface that is being used this year, correct?)

Anyhoo- the other players are divided on the speed of the court. Roger says it's actually normal and more or less slow. Andre and Nalby say that actually it's really fast. Ivan seems pleased with it. (Surpise).

What I found was very interesting was Andre saying that the fact that the ball bounces low could hide that he court actually is rather fast.

Here is a translation that I got from Yoly on vr.com.

From Mundo Deportivo:


Federer contradicts Nadal " The surface es quite slow"



11/05 17:04 h. Roger Federercontradicted Rafael Nadal this afternoon in Shanghai by saying that the surface is " moreless slow".

" I don't think it's that bad" the swiss said to the press. He thinks the surface is quite normal and is similar to other tournament surfaces.

Nadal on the other hand says " of course it's very difficult surface, very fast".

Andre Agassi, seemed to be on Nadal's side a bit more by saying " it's not that I want to contradict Roger, but the surface is more than quite slow, it's fast, maybe because the ball bounces quite low it may seem it's slower. In any case ist's faster than other courts"

" I think the court is faster than any other one" Nalbandian said.

Ljubicic said " I don't think it's too fast" " I only think that (Nadal) is the number two, and that no matter where you play, if you play good the surface shouldn't be as important"

Gaudio said " It doesn't suppose any big problem for me to play here, it's a faster surface, but what I don't like is playing indoors, my game isn't good enough for this type of surfaces"


This was what all the players said after the Opening Ceremony took place this afternoon. The players were dressed in an elegant black chinese jacket, which impressed the chinese press a lot.

nobama
11-12-2005, 08:41 PM
One thinks it's slow, a couple think it's fast, another doesn't have any problems with it....:lol:

Mechlan
11-12-2005, 09:03 PM
I can understand Rafa's point. Yes, he's shown up and is going to play, but he believes that the tournament that pits the top players in the world against each other should be on a more neutral surface. Nothing wrong with that opinion, or voicing it. If he wants things to change in the future, he's going to have to speak his mind now, when it makes the most impact, and endure whatever flak he gets about bitching.

Clara Bow
11-12-2005, 09:09 PM
Nothing wrong with that opinion, or voicing it. If he wants things to change in the future, he's going to have to speak his mind now, when it makes the most impact, and endure whatever flak he gets about bitching.

That is a good point- the squeaky wheel gets the grease and all.

star
11-12-2005, 09:12 PM
:worship:

Well put.

Chloe le Bopper
11-12-2005, 09:17 PM
If Nadal said that he had no problem with the surface somebody would probably find fault with that too :angel:

Chloe le Bopper
11-12-2005, 09:17 PM
A good tennis player plays good everywhere. A specialist complains :ras:
Yeah, like Marat when he whines about Wimbledon. That bloody specialist :mad:

ExpectedWinner
11-12-2005, 09:22 PM
but he believes that the tournament that pits the top players in the world against each other should be on a more neutral surface. .

There's no such thing as a neutral surface. Next year, someone will complain that it's too slow, the bounces are too high/low,or whatever. When did they choose the surface? A few month ago nobody cared. It only matters when a "fabulous me" is qualified for the tournament. So, adjust and shut up.

Chloe le Bopper
11-12-2005, 09:42 PM
There's no such thing as a neutral surface. Next year, someone will complain that it's too slow, the bounces are too high/low,or whatever. When did they choose the surface? A few month ago nobody cared. It only matters when a "fabulous me" is qualified for the tournament. So, adjust and shut up.
Actually, a couple months ago Toni was already commenting on the surface :lol:. And they've known for MANY months now that Rafa would be going. So catch up or shut up ;)

Mechlan
11-12-2005, 09:51 PM
There's no such thing as a neutral surface. Next year, someone will complain that it's too slow, the bounces are too high/low,or whatever. When did they choose the surface? A few month ago nobody cared. It only matters when a "fabulous me" is qualified for the tournament. So, adjust and shut up.

There is such a thing as a more neutral surface, though. It's the end of the year. These days, the top 8 are almost necessarily a diverse group of players and playing styles. Why not pick a surface that falls somewhere in the middle in terms of surface speed? "Adjust and shut up" is stupid. The shit would hit the fan if a dictatorial director changed the TMC surface to clay or grass and sent that message to the players.

ExpectedWinner
11-12-2005, 09:52 PM
Actually, a couple months ago Toni was already commenting on the surface :lol:. And they've known for MANY months now that Rafa would be going. So catch up or shut up ;)

Exactly,Toni, the math genious, figured out that Nadal's trip to Shanghai in the cards and started to complain in advance. Did he bother at the beginning of the year?

When did they choose the surface (I really want to know)?

PamV
11-12-2005, 09:52 PM
Its in Spanish and my Spanish skills are non-existent but someone in another forum translated this:

http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/story?id=381107

Nadal has been speaking out about the court for this years Masters Cup. He says the surface will not create a spectacle for the fans, points will be very short and that it favours Ljubicic heavily.

He feels it is not right for the Masters Cup to be played on a surface like this when there are only 2 or 3 courts comparable to it over the course of the year. He says it is a lack of respect to Tennis.

He went onto say, it doesn't make sense that he comes to the Masters Cup as the no2 player in the world, but then put him on a surface that would likely not even have him in the top 15.

He says further, when a player plays and loses, ok, but is it right at this kind of stage for a player to feel he has lost before the match has even begun?

He ended by saying he expects his knees to hold up on the court, and that he doesn't consider himself as Federer's rival, but the rival of any player he steps out on court with.

What other two or three tournaments are played on Gerflow or what ever that stuff is called in Shanghai? I think that the long points on clay are not that great for entertainment value, myself.

madmanfool
11-12-2005, 09:53 PM
I thought Nadal wants to improve on faster surfaces, so what is better for that then to play on a very fast surface against the top 8???

ExpectedWinner
11-12-2005, 09:57 PM
There is such a thing as a more neutral surface

What is it exactly? The rebound ace is considered to be the one, but Hewitt always complains how it doesn't take his serve the way he likes it. :shrug:

The point is - no matter what you put out there, grass or glass, someone will not be happy.

Chloe le Bopper
11-12-2005, 09:59 PM
Exactly,Toni, the math genious, figured out that Nadal's trip to Shanghai in the cards and started to complain in advance. Did he bother at the beginning of the year?

When did they choose the surface (I really want to know)?
I imagine that Toni had no idea what the surface would be at the start of the year. :shrug:

They didn't even ahve the stadium built until sometime after that, so I can't imagine they had it chosen that early. Well, I mean, it's one thing to have it chosen and actually have it constructed... if that makes sense :p I'm sure the general materials were planned in advance, but you don't really know how fast it will play until it's been put together. Of course, I don't know how Toni would have known it was going to play wicked fast (as they've complained it will, though it seems others beg to differ) without actually testing it out first, but perhaps he was basing that on other people testing it out?

And with that ramble, I think it's time that I retire because I no longer have a point.

Chloe le Bopper
11-12-2005, 09:59 PM
What is it exactly? The rebound ace is considered to be the one, but Hewitt always complains how it doesn't take his serve the way he likes it. :shrug:
Hewitt always complains, period ;)

Galaxystorm
11-12-2005, 10:03 PM
What other two or three tournaments are played on Gerflow or what ever that stuff is called in Shanghai? I think that the long points on clay are not that great for entertainment value, myself.

Paris TMS , Kremlin Cup , St.Petersburg , Lyon and now the TMC are played on Gerflor surfaces

Exactly,Toni, the math genious, figured out that Nadal's trip to Shanghai in the cards and started to complain in advance. Did he bother at the beginning of the year?

When did they choose the surface (I really want to know)?

The surface for the TMC was chosen towards the end of May 2005

Clara Bow
11-12-2005, 10:14 PM
I think that the long points on clay are not that great for entertainment value, myself.

PamV, I don't think the gist of Nadal's concern is that the points be as long as they are on clay (though personally I really enjoy them). He asked for a moderate hard surface- not a clay surface. The points on super fast surfaces are often so dominated by serve, etc. that they are over in a jiffy. Faster than the moderate hard courts.

In fact- one reason why I like Federer is that he helped turn the tide away from the super quick, super fast points that were dominant in part of the 1990s and continued to be so (with the excpetion of some players like Hewitt) in the early 2000s. I thought that Federer helped to make tennis more interesting in that he helped to bring back constructed points/variety and not just ace; serve, return- end point; ace -etc. I know not everyone shares my opinion, but those are just my thoughts.

KoOlMaNsEaN
11-12-2005, 10:27 PM
stop bitching, deal with what you got

btw hes obviously saying tennis is clay court tennis and hard court/grass isn't :rolleyes:

Clara Bow
11-12-2005, 10:28 PM
btw hes obviously saying tennis is clay court tennis and hard court/grass isn't

That is not what he is saying. Sheesh- he has not asked for clay courts- but moderate hard courts. Toni even said that a court like the US Open would be fine- and that is a hard court for sure!

Yes- I do think that Rafa is perhaps grousing a bit too much- but he does have the right to an opinion. I don't think it's fair to put words in his mouth say that he has been asking for clay courts and saying that the only true tennis is on clay courts because he has never done either. He has been asking for a moderate surface.

lau
11-12-2005, 10:43 PM
stop bitching, deal with what you got

btw hes obviously saying tennis is clay court tennis and hard court/grass isn't :rolleyes:
:cuckoo: http://www.pixpond.com/11/bostezohsadfsad.gif

RickDaStick
11-12-2005, 10:46 PM
Rafael would you like some cheese with that whine?

Castafiore
11-12-2005, 10:47 PM
stop bitching, deal with what you got

btw hes obviously saying tennis is clay court tennis and hard court/grass isn't :rolleyes:
Is it really too much to ask to actually read his opinion properly before you start whining about it?

And to nobody in particular here:
Why are you guys bitching so much about this?
The guy has an opinion about something. Sue him. Sheesh.

star
11-12-2005, 10:48 PM
Is it really too much to ask to actually read his opinion properly before you start whining about it?

Apparently.

prima donna
11-12-2005, 10:54 PM
What is really a disgrace to tennis is his performance at this year's Wimbledon, the oldest and most prestigious tournament known to tennis. The only tournament that REALLY COUNTS. So immature of him to have the audacity to say such a thing, relax there, you have 1 good year and start making remarks that would be questioned even if they came out of a veteran like Agassi's mouth ... some nerve he has. Just play tennis, rookie. :)

Scotso
11-12-2005, 10:54 PM
I'm quite bored with this topic now.

Castafiore
11-12-2005, 10:58 PM
This is the 'let's bitch and moan about bitching and moaning' thread.
And it would be fair if most of the moaning and bitching did actually have some relevance to his actual opinion but it's apparently much more fun to bitch and moan at random.

Lots of hypocrits in here if you ask me.

1sun
11-12-2005, 11:09 PM
This is the 'let's bitch and moan about bitching and moaning' thread.
And it would be fair if most of the moaning and bitching did actually have some relevance to his actual opinion but it's apparently much more fun to bitch and moan at random.

Lots of hypocrits in here if you ask me.
face it mate, you kid has been 'moaning' about this none stop so people are gonna get tired of it and 'bitch and moan' about nadals 'bitching and moaning'

Castafiore
11-12-2005, 11:11 PM
face it mate, you kid has been 'moaning' about this none stop so people are gonna get tired of it and 'bitch and moan' about nadals 'bitching and moaning'
As if some of you need an excuse to bitch and moan about Nadal.

Besides, he hasn't been moaning about it non stop. It just looks that way because you guys can't stop bitching about it.

1sun
11-12-2005, 11:33 PM
As if some of you need an excuse to bitch and moan about Nadal.

Besides, he hasn't been moaning about it non stop. It just looks that way because you guys can't stop bitching about it.
lol, scroll through this bloody thread and see what i quoted before you start stating shit about me.
i dont care if he likes it or not, i couldnt give a shit and if he wants to moan about it then thats up to him.
its just that i had to point out to yourself, that your buddy is gonna get attention, and that people are gonna moan and bitch about him if hes constantly complaining about it. hes beeing immature and your indenial which is expected considering your his fan and also understanding. but dont start moanin about people bitching about him when, in this case, its justified.
now hush up, and let the bitching continue. :p

Skyward
11-12-2005, 11:34 PM
Lots of hypocrits in here if you ask me.

It's not the first or last thread where they (hypocrits) have shown up.

1sun
11-12-2005, 11:40 PM
Lots of hypocrits in here if you ask me.
yep, and your one of them

Castafiore
11-12-2005, 11:44 PM
yep, and your one of them
:rolleyes:

Come on, 1Sun...don't play that silly game.

star
11-12-2005, 11:46 PM
lol, scroll through this bloody thread and see what i quoted before you start stating shit about me.
i dont care if he likes it or not, i couldnt give a shit and if he wants to moan about it then thats up to him.
its just that i had to point out to yourself, that your buddy is gonna get attention, and that people are gonna moan and bitch about him if hes constantly complaining about it. hes beeing immature and your indenial which is expected considering your his fan and also understanding. but dont start moanin about people bitching about him when, in this case, its justified.
now hush up, and let the bitching continue. :p

ummmmm Where is the "constant" complaining? I think he's made one, maybe two statements about the surface. Is that called constant complaining? If so, then Federer constantly complained about the surface in Houston.

1sun
11-12-2005, 11:51 PM
:rolleyes:

Come on, 1Sun...don't play that silly game.
you started it!!!!!not me!!! you!!!!lol

Castafiore
11-12-2005, 11:53 PM
you started it!!!!!not me!!! you!!!!lol
You're missing the point, 1sun, but why does that not surprise me?

almouchie
11-12-2005, 11:55 PM
I have heard from several people about Nadal being arrogant & what not
I didnt think he would say something as critical as that
bit if the mighty fed is complaining than they should listen to the players
who decides the surface for the tournament? ATP? or shanghai officials
u have admit thou some of the players here would have never have had the chance to be here in normal circumstances

1sun
11-12-2005, 11:55 PM
You're missing the point, 1sun but why does that not surprise me?
because im stupid? was that the initation of your thought?

Chloe le Bopper
11-13-2005, 12:56 AM
stop bitching, deal with what you got

btw hes obviously saying tennis is clay court tennis and hard court/grass isn't :rolleyes:
:crazy:

jacobhiggins
11-13-2005, 01:15 AM
Federer is not complaing, he just made a statement he dosen't like the surface. Nadal's camp is the one complaing, saying how it's completely unfair and how they have no chance and are saying it favors other players, there's a difference between Federer's comments and the ones from Nadal's camp!!!

alfonsojose
11-13-2005, 01:52 AM
Federer is not complaing, he just made a statement he dosen't like the surface. Nadal's camp is the one complaing, saying how it's completely unfair and how they have no chance and are saying it favors other players, there's a difference between Federer's comments and the ones from Nadal's camp!!!
you're right. There's a difference :yeah:

nobama
11-13-2005, 02:03 AM
Rafa's the #2 player in the world. I don't know why he and his coach would come out and basically say he has no chance. I'm sorry but when you're the #2 player in the world you should be able to play on any surface.

alfonsojose
11-13-2005, 02:16 AM
PamV, I don't think the gist of Nadal's concern is that the points be as long as they are on clay (though personally I really enjoy them). He asked for a moderate hard surface- not a clay surface. The points on super fast surfaces are often so dominated by serve, etc. that they are over in a jiffy. Faster than the moderate hard courts.

In fact- one reason why I like Federer is that he helped turn the tide away from the super quick, super fast points that were dominant in part of the 1990s and continued to be so (with the excpetion of some players like Hewitt) in the early 2000s. I thought that Federer helped to make tennis more interesting in that he helped to bring back constructed points/variety and not just ace; serve, return- end point; ace -etc. I know not everyone shares my opinion, but those are just my thoughts.
You talk like if Federer never serves aces or winners. :shrug: Come on, give him the serve of Nalbandian and he wouldn't be top 5. He's not Roddick but he relies a lot on his serve. And not about placementet and mixing. Pure aces or unreturnable serves

hitchhiker
11-13-2005, 02:22 AM
Come on, give him the serve of Nalbandian and he wouldn't be top 5.

hewitt is top 5 with a pretty weak serve and the fed machine makes mince meat of hewitt in every department

hitchhiker
11-13-2005, 02:29 AM
And not about placementet and mixing. Pure aces or unreturnable serves

placement/mixing and pure aces/unreturnable serves are not mutually exclusive...............fed is a machine dominating a weak era.

lau
11-13-2005, 02:31 AM
Rafa's the #2 player in the world. I don't know why he and his coach would come out and basically say he has no chance. I'm sorry but when you're the #2 player in the world you should be able to play on any surface.
If he`s not able, he shouldnīt be the #2 player in the world? :p

alfonsojose
11-13-2005, 03:02 AM
hewitt is top 5 with a pretty weak serve and the fed machine makes mince meat of hewitt in every department
not that weak as Gaston or David

Dirk
11-13-2005, 04:45 AM
placement/mixing and pure aces/unreturnable serves are not mutually exclusive...............fed is a machine dominating a weak era.

What would Andy be if he was dominating this weak era? YOU HERO!!!!! :haha:

Clara Bow
11-13-2005, 06:01 AM
You talk like if Federer never serves aces or winners.

Sorry if that is how it sounded. That is not how I implied it. Roger does indeed do aces and winners. And he can serve himself out of trouble- quite often.

He has a great serve- but his game is not all about great serve or short points. He does hit return winners- yes- but then he also hits winners 10+ strokes into the game.

My point was that Roger was not just doing the short-point thing that was a little too common for my preference (note- I am just saying my perference, I am not saying that everyone needs to share my opinion) during parts of the 1990s and early 2000s.

ETA- In terms of the court speed. From what I have seen in the Feds/Nalby match- it does seem to be pretty fast. Glibert and PMac say that it is fast as well- but I know that their opinions are not often used as a vote of confidence on this (and other) boards. :p

NYCtennisfan
11-13-2005, 07:07 AM
After watching the first match, the court isn't playing extraordinarily fast. It's fast and at this point, I think Ivan is the favorite.

tennisinparis
11-13-2005, 07:14 AM
I agree, Ivan is probably the favorite. Especially with his level of play coming into this tournament.

After watching the first match, the court isn't playing extraordinarily fast. It's fast and at this point, I think Ivan is the favorite.

Federerthebest
11-13-2005, 07:17 AM
Nadal should stop acting like a whiney bitch, if he truly deserves to be the no.2 player in the world then he should be able to do well on all surfaces. It's logical that the season should be concluded on a fast surface, what, does he want everyone to go back to playing on clay? :retard:

lau
11-13-2005, 07:21 AM
Nadal should stop acting like a whiney bitch, if he truly deserves to be the no.2 player in the world then he should be able to do well on all surfaces. It's logical that the season should be concluded on a fast surface, what, does he want everyone to go back to playing on clay? :retard:
So he doesnīt truly deserve to be the Nš2 player in the world if he doesnīt do well here? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Sampras never truly deserved to be Nš1!! :eek: :eek:

Clara Bow
11-13-2005, 07:23 AM
does he want everyone to go back to playing on clay?

Why do people keep saying that Nadal wanted the courts to be clay? He just wanted a moderate hard court like last year's TMC in Houston. He has never said that this year it should be played on clay! One reason why a moderate court would make sense to me is because the players are in TMC because of their performace over the whole year- not just for the hc or indoor season. It is not like a regular tournament.

I don't mind people taking issue with what Nadal actually says- but I do mind people putting words into his mouth.

It's fast and at this point, I think Ivan is the favorite.

I agree- I think Ivan is the fave.

tennisinparis
11-13-2005, 07:25 AM
geez, get realistic. if you have a brain that functions, please try and use it, i mean it could help you in many other aspects of you life, not just on this forum.

Nadal should stop acting like a whiney bitch, if he truly deserves to be the no.2 player in the world then he should be able to do well on all surfaces. It's logical that the season should be concluded on a fast surface, what, does he want everyone to go back to playing on clay? :retard:

Federerthebest
11-13-2005, 07:38 AM
So he doesnīt truly deserve to be the Nš2 player in the world if he doesnīt do well here?

My point was that if someone is no.2 in the world they should be capable of performing at least reasonably well on all surfaces and thus Nadal really shouldn't be complaining. He already proved in Madrid that he can do very well on fast surfaces.

One reason why a moderate court would make sense to me is because the players are in TMC because of their performace over the whole year- not just for the hc or indoor season. It is not like a regular tournament.

I disagree - the Masters Cup should be regarded as the conclusion to the indoors season as well as the tennis season. It's not reasonable to expect players to adjust to new paces so soon after the indoor tournaments.

Galaxystorm
11-13-2005, 07:38 AM
Why do people keep saying that Nadal wanted the courts to be clay? He just wanted a moderate hard court like last year's TMC in Houston. He has never said that this year it should be played on clay! One reason why a moderate court would make sense to me is because the players are in TMC because of their performace over the whole year- not just for the hc or indoor season. It is not like a regular tournament.

I don't mind people taking issue with what Nadal actually says- but I do mind people putting words into his mouth..

Don't waste your time Clara, Nadal's haters will continue to manipulate his words showing their great ethic

Clara Bow
11-13-2005, 07:43 AM
disagree - the Masters Cup should be regarded as the conclusion to the indoors season as well as the tennis season. It's not reasonable to expect players to adjust to new paces so soon after the indoor tournaments.

They have adjusted just fine in the past- including in 2003 and 2004. ;)

My big reason for wanting the MC to be moderate is because the presence there is a reward for the whole year- and not just for the indoor season. And therefore, I think it is quite fair to have a surface that is a median speed for the myriad of surfaces they play during the whole year.

I can see where you are coming from, but I just happen to disagree. ;)

Galaxystorm
11-13-2005, 07:46 AM
I disagree - the Masters Cup should be regarded as the conclusion to the indoors season as well as the tennis season. It's not reasonable to expect players to adjust to new paces so soon after the indoor tournaments.

A pro is used to change surfaces ( Look at Federer and Murray, they came from indoors clay in Davis cup and they reached Bangkok final at indoors hard ) , and players during a week ( after Paris ) have enough time to change from carpet indoors to hard outdoors .

In my opinion the fact that the season ends at indoors isn't enough to say that a TMC should be played at indoors because as i've said a pro player is used to change surfaces , players after Miami in a week they have to play at MonteCarlo on clay , and ATP calendar has these changes of surfaces.

its.like.that
11-13-2005, 04:41 PM
You can always tell who the trolls are around here: they turn off their rep buttons now. :lol:

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

:retard:

NyGeL
11-13-2005, 07:55 PM
i watched fed vs nalbo and the sufrace looked very fast. The balls bounce it's very low and fast, like Belarus surface :S

Galaxystorm
11-13-2005, 08:26 PM
i watched fed vs nalbo and the sufrace looked very fast. The balls bounce it's very low and fast, like Belarus surface :S

:secret: If you say in MTF that the court looked very fast, you run the risk of being considered as a person with a mental disorder..

According to some MTF opinions, Shanghai is a slow surface , you should know that carpet and clay are more or less the same :rolleyes:

Deivid23
11-13-2005, 09:46 PM
Rafa, itīs ok to complain about the surface once but so many is quite boring and childish. Shut up and play ;)

Deivid23
11-13-2005, 09:47 PM
On another note, how the fuck anyone can label Teraflex (it canīt get any faster) as a slow carpet? :retard:

El Legenda
11-13-2005, 09:47 PM
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

:retard:

and you can always tell who is a :retard: around here.

El Legenda
11-13-2005, 09:49 PM
anyone trying to say how fast or slow the surface, has no idea, you're not in shanghai and you're not playing on it, they are some of the say its fast or says its not fast. we will have to go by that.

Deivid23
11-13-2005, 09:54 PM
anyone trying to say how fast or slow the surface, has no idea, you're not in shanghai and you're not playing on it, they are some of the say its fast or says its not fast. we will have to go by that.

I will go for what I know and Teraflex is a very fast carpet, I couldnīt care less about one saying itīs fast and others itīs slow. Itīs very fast, period.

Galaxystorm
11-13-2005, 09:56 PM
It's true that TV cameras position being in low altitude make the feeling that the play is faster , if the tv cameras were higher the play seemed a bit slower..

BlackSilver
11-13-2005, 10:01 PM
I thought I was watching a Hamburg match due to the super slow courts

:rolleyes:

Galaxystorm
11-13-2005, 10:25 PM
I thought I was watching a Hamburg match due to the super slow courts

:rolleyes:

:haha::haha:

star
11-13-2005, 10:39 PM
Ivan says the surface is the same as in Paris. That means it's a fast surface.

I think the point is that it is sticky. The fast movers don't like that.