So, will anyone complain that the winner didn't have to beat Federer and Nadal.... [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

So, will anyone complain that the winner didn't have to beat Federer and Nadal....

Sjengster
11-06-2005, 04:49 PM
....considering these two results over the past 18 months?

2004 Athens Olympics, R32
T. Berdych def. R. Federer 4-6, 7-5, 7-5

2005 Cincinnati, R64
T. Berdych def. R. Nadal 6-7, 6-2, 7-6


The only other man to beat both of them in the past two years was Hrbaty, and one of those was a win by retirement.

Castafiore
11-06-2005, 04:51 PM
Oh come on! Is it really necessary to start yet another thread for this?

Sheesh...why can't you people just enjoy this victory?

Action Jackson
11-06-2005, 04:51 PM
Sjengster, the answer is here.

http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=2636334&postcount=99

alfonsojose
11-06-2005, 04:56 PM
Oh come on! Is it really necessary to start yet another thread for this?

Sheesh...why can't you people just enjoy this victory?
:yeah:

Sjengster
11-06-2005, 05:00 PM
Oh come on! Is it really necessary to start yet another thread for this?

Sheesh...why can't you people just enjoy this victory?

a) I only just came online, so I was not exactly aware of the multitude of threads on the matter.

b) I'm making a specific point about Berdych's previous results, not a general match result thread.

c) I was supporting Ljubicic, so how exactly is this gloating of any sort? Think a little before you start handing out the criticism.

El Legenda
11-06-2005, 05:00 PM
....considering these two results over the past 18 months?

2004 Athens Olympics, R32
T. Berdych def. R. Federer 4-6, 7-5, 7-5

2005 Cincinnati, R64
T. Berdych def. R. Nadal 6-7, 6-2, 7-6




The only other man to beat both of them in the past two years was Hrbaty, and one of those was a win by retirement.

those didnt come in a final, where Federer does not lose and is Nadal 10-0 in last 10 finals.

jenanun
11-06-2005, 05:02 PM
but the truth is,
berdych really didnt beat federer and nadal in this tournament to win the title!

Castafiore
11-06-2005, 05:02 PM
a) I only just came online, so I was not exactly aware of the multitude of threads on the matter.
Can't you just read a bit before you react? I mean, the threads are right on top of the forum. It's hard to miss them.

so how exactly is this gloating of any sort? Think a little before you start handing out the criticism.
Think before I start handing out criticism? How about taking your own advice?
Who is talking about gloating? Where in hell did I mention gloating?

Sjengster
11-06-2005, 05:07 PM
Can't you just read a bit before you react? I mean, the threads are right on top of the forum. It's hard to miss them.


Think before I start handing out criticism? How about taking your own advice?
Who is talking about gloating? Where in hell did I mention gloating?

I have every intention of reading those threads, but I don't see anything wrong with me starting this one.

The implication was that I was gloating. "Can't you just enjoy this victory?" is a clear suggestion that I'm trying to rub salt in the wound of Ljubicic fans/people who were doubting Berdych beforehand. When I'm not.

adee-gee
11-06-2005, 05:11 PM
Props to Berdych this win was pretty much out the blue. Yes, the field was weak but he was still far from favourite to win the tournament. No, I highly doubt he'd have won it if the likes of Federer, Nadal, Safin and Hewitt played but that doesn't matter. He beat whoever was put in front of him, and I must confess before 3 of his matches this week (Ferrero, Stepanek, Ljubicic) I really didn't think he'd come through. Thoroughly deserved in my opinion.

ys
11-06-2005, 06:48 PM
That was a low-key meaningless tournament with no big players participating.. Who cares..

adee-gee
11-06-2005, 06:51 PM
That was a low-key meaningless tournament with no big players participating.. Who cares..
Yes, a TMS is meaningless :yeah:

Peoples
11-06-2005, 07:08 PM
Not just Federer and Nadal... Federer, Nadal, Hewitt, Safin, Agassi.

He did beat Coria though, indoors, wow that's big :eek:

amierin
11-06-2005, 07:26 PM
No. He beat the field he was playing against. With both Federer and Nadal out of this one there will always be as asterisk in some people's minds but IMO this was a solid win against the man who has dominated the indoor season.

Jogy
11-06-2005, 07:27 PM
On statistics every Masters tournament means same, same points!
And I'm glad that Federer was not here, only makes it more exciting that new players win titles and not only stupid Federer!
When all faking injuries or reasons not to play it is not Berdychs error not to have beat them to win tournament. Great Berdych!!!!!

disturb3d
11-06-2005, 07:30 PM
Berdych is the most talented player on tour behind Roger.
And his size advantage should be enough to take the no.1 spot in a year or two.

Jogy
11-06-2005, 07:33 PM
Berdych is the most talented player on tour behind Roger.
And his size advantage should be enough to take the no.1 spot in a year or two.
I don't see so many talent with Berdych, he is talented for sure, but not so big big. He has good shot and big power on his shots, but I think he is not as talented as some other young player.

Tourmalante
11-06-2005, 07:35 PM
Berdych is the most talented player on tour behind Roger.
And his size advantage should be enough to take the no.1 spot in a year or two.

His size advantage is negated by Roger's greater variety and better movement.

almouchie
11-06-2005, 07:36 PM
no matter to beat those kinds of player he has to be doing something great
& tomas is a great prospect
for agassi to give him a compliment after he once lost to him pretty badily . he didnt underestimate him again
he sure is one to look out for next year
this win is no fluke_ time will show i suppose

Tourmalante
11-06-2005, 07:37 PM
On statistics every Masters tournament means same, same points!
And I'm glad that Federer was not here, only makes it more exciting that new players win titles and not only stupid Federer!
When all faking injuries or reasons not to play it is not Berdychs error not to have beat them to win tournament. Great Berdych!!!!!

And some people think I am offensive?! Why do you hate Federer so much that you have to call him stupid and parade that signature commemorating Nadal's semi win at the FO? If Nadal happens to lose at Roland Garros next year, especially to Roger, I will be merciless with you.

Jogy
11-06-2005, 07:44 PM
And some people think I am offensive?! Why do you hate Federer so much that you have to call him stupid and parade that signature commemorating Nadal's semi win at the FO? If Nadal happens to lose at Roland Garros next year, especially to Roger, I will be merciless with you.
Who think you are offensive? Are they that sensitive? :confused: Forget them!
I hate Federer like other posters hating Hewitt, Roddick, Nadal or other players. I don't need Federer winning more and more to make tennis more and more onesided(boring). So I happy that Berdych won Masters title and not only Federer or Nadal.

Tourmalante
11-06-2005, 07:50 PM
Who think you are offensive? Are they that sensitive? :confused: Forget them!
I hate Federer like other posters hating Hewitt, Roddick, Nadal or other players. I don't need Federer winning more and more to make tennis more and more onesided(boring). So I happy that Berdych won Masters title and not only Federer or Nadal.

Okay, thats cool.

lucashg
11-06-2005, 08:17 PM
I have every intention of reading those threads, but I don't see anything wrong with me starting this one.

The implication was that I was gloating. "Can't you just enjoy this victory?" is a clear suggestion that I'm trying to rub salt in the wound of Ljubicic fans/people who were doubting Berdych beforehand. When I'm not.

The implication was more like you were rubbing these facts and today's victory in the face of Berdych's non-believers and whoever intended to downplay his accomplishment.

I'm just taking that you tried to show them that well, this man cannot be a fluke to win this tournament since he was the only player who truly beat both Federer and Nadal in the past 18 months (not to mention other top players).

People will see it as they want. Berdych has beaten them and could have done in this tournament to win it OR Berdych didn't have to beat them that's why he won it and those wins were a fluke anyway (they were close, which makes this excuse possible). I'm going with the first group. It was just his week and if the field was weak, that's just not his fault.

Oh, and probably what she really thought that we didn't need was yet another thread doing this type of in-your-face commentaries. There's been tons of "sarcastic" comments already.

case
11-06-2005, 08:29 PM
That was a low-key meaningless tournament with no big players participating.. Who cares..


there is some truth to that- tms or not. I could win a tournament against a bunch of one year olds and call it a TMS victory, but it doesn't make it a Tennis Masters Series win. I would have to beat MASTERS of tennis to make it rightly so.

ys
11-06-2005, 09:58 PM
Yes, a TMS is meaningless :yeah:

Pretty much so.. Lotsa money.. yes.. Some points .. yes.. But no glory.. it can add something to a legacy of someone lile Berdych or Ljubicic who are not capable of playing big when others play big, when the best play big.. But to someone like Federer? Nadal? Nothing really.. Those guys are interested in Slams..

Clara Bow
11-06-2005, 10:01 PM
And some people think I am offensive?! Why do you hate Federer so much that you have to call him stupid and parade that signature commemorating Nadal's semi win at the FO? If Nadal happens to lose at Roland Garros next year, especially to Roger, I will be merciless with you.

This is kind of OT- but if you don't like someone doing something that you think is offensive- why would you then, in turn, try to be offensive yourself? If Nadal loses at RG- what is to gain from then trying to out-troll someone?

Back to the question at hand. I always think that players who win tournaments deserve to win the tournament - no * needed. It is not the eventual winners fault if players so and so and such and such were either unable to play at the tournament or were knocked out before the winner was able to play them.

People who win tournaments deserve to win, in my opinion.

revolution
11-06-2005, 10:03 PM
Nadal was quite happy when he lifted his four TMS trophies this year, I think they mean something to him, same for Fed, I mean if Fed wins all the GS, I think racking up all nine TMS will be a goal, and now he has an emerging Stan Wawrinka, maybe he can win the DC as well.

lalaland
11-06-2005, 10:39 PM
One has to be able to seize an opportunity when it's presented to him. Berdych is the only one who did in Paris, unlike the other 47 players who participate, so I say he deserves the credit if ppl are willing to give to him. And ppl are assuming that Berdych will not win it if Fed or Rafa was in the tournament. But we can't know for sure, at least not by basing the assumption on Berdych h-to-h against Fed or Rafa, because he had proved that he can beat them. And as for Fed and Rafa's success rate in finals, it does seem chances of anyone else taking a title off their hands in a final is slim. But hey, they will have to lose one sooner or later, Paris could have been the one if they were here. Now we will never know.

vincayou
11-06-2005, 10:43 PM
Anyway, every year now, this tournament is depleted. If people wants to put an asterisk next to Berdych, they can as well put one next to Safin last year.

In the end, Berdych will probably win bigger things than that so it doesn't really matter.

NYCtennisfan
11-07-2005, 12:03 AM
The creation of this thread has brought this into discussion ipso facto.

wcr
11-07-2005, 12:16 AM
....considering these two results over the past 18 months?

2004 Athens Olympics, R32
T. Berdych def. R. Federer 4-6, 7-5, 7-5

2005 Cincinnati, R64
T. Berdych def. R. Nadal 6-7, 6-2, 7-6


The only other man to beat both of them in the past two years was Hrbaty, and one of those was a win by retirement.

Looks like Berdych is playing up to his potential. Good for TB to make a TMS event his 2nd title. IvanL is no walk in the park and has played well this indoor season. A solid win for Tomas indeed.