Berdych at a stand still??? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Berdych at a stand still???

skel1983
10-28-2005, 09:35 AM
I was watching the match last night, and i was thinking Berdych needs alot of work on his game if he is to break the top 20 at least, from what i saw he is a bit of a head case, but his all court game is poor, he needs alot of work.
Obviously he has a devastating powerful game from the back of the court, but take him from his bread and butter ( the back of the court ) i thought he looked like a novice.

He has so much potential but i honestly believe he will waste this and will hover between 20-50 for the next few years, he needs to work on his strengths, he needs to shorten points, improve his net game, and he needs a bit more margin for error on his shots.

I am a big Murray fan but all things being equal Berdych has a better game, but it looks like he needs a new coach for me, it should of been a big year for him, but it has not happened. If he doesn't make big changes i feel his talent will go to waste.

What do you guys think??

Horatio Caine
10-28-2005, 09:40 AM
His game, when it is on, is good enough for top 20 maybe even top 10, but I don't buy this top 5 rubbish. He has a huge serve, huge groundies, and should really incorporate a volley into his game. He could succeed on pretty much all surfaces.

As to wasted years...whenever a player has a breakthrough year, they often follow it up with a pretty poor year as they either get overconfident or the other players suss him out. He has only dropped about 20 places so I wouldn't call it a bad achievement really.

He probably needs a "mental" coach - someone that tell him how to control his emotions etc.

Deivid23
10-28-2005, 09:43 AM
He will be one of the best players in the world soon enough. Just need to mature and develope his game a bit more.

prima donna
10-28-2005, 09:56 AM
Anyone that beat Roger Federer the way that Berdych did is going to have one hell of a career. I was expecting him to thrash Agassi in NYC, but the kid lost his legs ... like most of Agassi's adversaries.

skel1983
10-28-2005, 10:03 AM
His game, when it is on, is good enough for top 20 maybe even top 10, but I don't buy this top 5 rubbish. He has a huge serve, huge groundies, and should really incorporate a volley into his game. He could succeed on pretty much all surfaces.

As to wasted years...whenever a player has a breakthrough year, they often follow it up with a pretty poor year as they either get overconfident or the other players suss him out. He has only dropped about 20 places so I wouldn't call it a bad achievement really.

He probably needs a "mental" coach - someone that tell him how to control his emotions etc.


I totally disagree with after a breakthrough year the following they don't follow it up????

Where you got that info from dude??

Here are some of the recent stars on the atp and there rise:

Break through year following year

Hewitt 1999 (26) 2000 (6)
Nadal 2004 (45) 2005 (2)
Federer 1999 (66) 2000 (27)
Gasquet 2004 (94) 2005 (15)
Nalbandian 2001 (70) 2002 (12)
Safin 1998 (49) 1999 (26)

There just a few i could think of, guys who make it to the top very rarely take a step back on there 2nd year on tour, that's why i think there is a few problems with Berdych, he should of kicked on like other top players have done in the past.

Going backwards in the rankings is not a good sign,

Do you really think:

Murray or Djokovic will not improve there ranking next year???? I am 100% certain they will, i am not saying it's the end of the world he has gone backwards in the rankings, but they are not good signs for young Berdych.

Plastic Bertrand
10-28-2005, 10:16 AM
Berdych is not going backwards, his game will take a longer time to develop if he can beat the # 1 and the # 2 in the world, too many people expect after some instant success that it will be continous, it is not, the season is almost over and good for him. Time to work harder phyiscally in the off the season and no he is not past it.

The call for a new coach is garbage, after one indifferent season, it is up to the player to play the matches and not the coach.

skel1983
10-28-2005, 10:28 AM
Berdych is not going backwards, his game will take a longer time to develop if he can beat the # 1 and the # 2 in the world, too many people expect after some instant success that it will be continous, it is not, the season is almost over and good for him. Time to work harder phyiscally in the off the season and no he is not past it.

The call for a new coach is garbage, after one indifferent season, it is up to the player to play the matches and not the coach.


I think you talk garbage my friend, no one said he was past it, but trends suggest all is not good, i didn't think he was going to be a superstar over night, but he has not kicked on which is a worry.

You say it's up to the player, well of course it is but he is 20 years old, he looks naive out there, which is understandable, but maybe he needs some fresh input, because somehting is not working, it is also upto the coach to develop his game and from what i see, he is going to be a hit and miss player, he could beat Federer but he could also loose to C.rochus!!

His game is big but unless things change in my opinion i think he will be a Gonzo type of player in around the 20 spot in the rankings.

Scotso
10-28-2005, 05:10 PM
His game is fine, he needs work on his head :sad:

kundalini
10-29-2005, 11:30 AM
I was watching the match last night, and i was thinking Berdych needs alot of work on his game if he is to break the top 20 at least, from what i saw he is a bit of a head case, but his all court game is poor, he needs alot of work.
Obviously he has a devastating powerful game from the back of the court, but take him from his bread and butter ( the back of the court ) i thought he looked like a novice.

He has so much potential but i honestly believe he will waste this and will hover between 20-50 for the next few years, he needs to work on his strengths, he needs to shorten points, improve his net game, and he needs a bit more margin for error on his shots.

I am a big Murray fan but all things being equal Berdych has a better game, but it looks like he needs a new coach for me, it should of been a big year for him, but it has not happened. If he doesn't make big changes i feel his talent will go to waste.

What do you guys think??

While Berdych does have awesome groundstrokes and a huge serve, he doesn't look like a serious top 5 player. I know a lot of people predict a great future for Berdych but as you point out he has not improved on last year's breakthrough.

There is little in Berdych's results to suggest he will be in the top 10 next year and with the likes of Gasquet, Murray, Djokovic and Monfils all rushing towards the top 10 he may find it difficult to get past these players should they get there first.

Of the commonly mentioned young prospects Berdych and Verdasco appear the most likely to underperform. We have seen a lot of hit or miss players over recent years and few have made it into the top 10. Great shot making doesn't appear to be enough, it may produce outstanding victories but the mental side of the game is vital if you are to reach the top.

I disagree with the notion that he has a better game than Murray. Sure he can blast Andy off court but where is plan B? Murray has variety. He has big groundstrokes, drop shots, spins, can change the pace, serve and volley adequately, ask his opponent all types of questions. Murray looks top 5 material and a likely grand slam winner though probably not a dominant force like Federer etc.

In comparison Berdych will probably spend some time inside the top 10 and longer inside the top 20 but not be a regular contender for grand slam success. To do better than that he will have to learn to win matches when playing badly. Mentally he has a long way to go.

If you read Brad Gilbert's book Winning Ugly it isn't that difficult to understand why Berdych is struggling. Tennis is about using the percentages to gain an advantage - not about hitting the ball as hard as you can.

Action Jackson
11-01-2005, 12:25 PM
Nothing to worry about with Berdych, he beat another top 10 player today albeit one out of form, still he has done well against the top players when he has played them. Yes, he lacks consistency and a coaching change is definitely not needed and it's skel the master of the knee jerk reaction.

Never heard of the fact that players develop at different speeds and in his match, today he wasn't just belting the ball for the sake of it. As for Murray it's a different kind of game, so how is it possible to make a direct comparison?

skel1983
11-01-2005, 12:34 PM
Nothing to worry about with Berdych, he beat another top 10 player today albeit one out of form, still he has done well against the top players when he has played them. Yes, he lacks consistency and a coaching change is definitely not needed and it's skel the master of the knee jerk reaction.

Never heard of the fact that players develop at different speeds and in his match, today he wasn't just belting the ball for the sake of it. As for Murray it's a different kind of game, so how is it possible to make a direct comparison?

Agreed in a way, maybe it was a knee jerk reaction, he beat Coria probably the most out of form top 20 player at the moment, a good victory but not amazing, i agree people develop at different times, but my first impression is he will not make the grade as a household top 10 player.

Action Jackson
11-01-2005, 12:41 PM
Agreed in a way, maybe it was a knee jerk reaction, he beat Coria probably the most out of form top 20 player at the moment, a good victory but not amazing, i agree people develop at different times, but my first impression is he will not make the grade as a household top 10 player.

Actually to tell you the truth, there are some valid points for sure, but impatience and knee jerk reactions tend to cloud that, but seriously it's common sense he does have a big game and he can do everything when he is focused, that will take a longer time to develop than others.

He easily has the tools to be in the top 10, doesn't mean he will make it there. Plenty of other factors that come into it, he might not be that dedicated, could get injured for a while and set him back.

It's not like he is like Gonzalez, for one he is very efficient in his strokes and generates heaps of power with economy of movement and for a tall guy, he moves very well, when he is not being lazy.

The guy can beat top 10 players and has done so, whether he can win the matches he should day in and day out is another thing. Too early to say he is stagnating.

LaTenista
11-01-2005, 12:45 PM
This thread is as great as the roasted duck one. Wouldn't it be funny if Tomas won Paris?

Berdych does have a big game, I personally saw him hit winner after winner against Nadal in Cincinnati (wow!) but consistency seems to be the issue IMHO. Once he's got that, he's Top 10 material for sure.

Action Jackson
11-01-2005, 12:51 PM
This thread is as great as the roasted duck one. Wouldn't it be funny if Tomas won Paris?

Berdych does have a big game, I personally saw him hit winner after winner against Nadal in Cincinnati (wow!) but consistency seems to be the issue IMHO. Once he's got that, he's Top 10 material for sure.

Berdych has the game to trouble Nadal and the fact that have known each other for years helps as well. He can lose to a lot of people, he shouldn't, but beating both Federer and Nadal within a year, not bad for someone who is meant to be a gimp.

Action Jackson
11-04-2005, 12:30 AM
More marking time for Berdych, he is in his 1st TMS quarter final and will be favoured to beat Gaudio and if he plays Stepanek, then I think he will make the final.

He had his birdbrain moments, but he could account for 2 Slam Champs and a Slam finalist, plus beating the RG champ, this year, not bad for someone standing still.

Merton
11-04-2005, 12:36 AM
Another factor is that last year he had part of his schedulle playing Challengers, so it was not as energy demanding for him as this year. I think a big part of the ranking stagnation comes because he came to Palermo flat right after important DC wins against Germany. He failed to protect his points there. Next year will be very interesting for sure.

Action Jackson
11-04-2005, 12:38 AM
This performance and I expect him to make the semis will cover his loss in Palermo, but no, he is not standing still as I have said before. The forehand is a bit of a problem at the moment, but he plays with no fear and this is good, though it can be frustrating.

Sjengster
11-04-2005, 12:44 AM
He's only been a Top 50/60 player of any note for a little over a year, since the breakthrough win over Federer at the Olympics, and already you hear people saying he needs new input, a new coach etc. I was actually impressed that he came through today in the third set against Ferrero, I was expecting him to fold like a leaf after all the effort of breaking back to love in the second set and then blowing the 4-2 lead in the tiebreak. The commentators made a good point that he needs to follow more of his big shots into the net to hit putaway volleys, because the power of his groundies creates so many short floating balls, and I've seen an article about him posted in his forum where he recognised the need for this and was working on it, even though he's still not too comfortable in the forecourt.

You feel like shaking him when he seemingly can't hit the ball in court for two consecutive points, but that kind of aggression is what makes him dangerous and he just needs to use it more smartly and effectively. He must be a fairly heavy favourite against Gaudio tomorrow, and if he can really go deep in this tournament then I feel another tennistic song coming on.

Merton
11-04-2005, 12:47 AM
The funniest thing ever would be to see Berdych bandwagoners :eek:

Action Jackson
11-04-2005, 12:50 AM
It's the whole knee jerk reaction syndrome. Personally I think Berdych has huge potential, but it will take some time and sure he makes some huge errors at time, he might get gnarly at times on court, but he seems to forget it very quickly and the guy so far, is 5-0 in 5 setters and he is quite fit. It seems mainly cause of Nadal's success, that every single teen or young player is expected to be this successful, when that is virtually impossible.

Action Jackson
11-04-2005, 12:50 AM
The funniest thing ever would be to see Berdych bandwagoners :eek:

No, not that funny, it will happen undoubtedly.

myggen
11-04-2005, 01:38 AM
He has a big game, and that is why he is having all these upsets. But still he is way too inconsistent and does not look like top 20 material for another 2-3 years. He needs to work on his conditioning, cause he is not moving well enough and his balance is not very impressive when he is on the move and therefore he is hitting tons of UE's. But he is still young so he can improve this and maybe some day get into the top 10. But top 5, as I see him now, no way!

Action Jackson
11-04-2005, 01:43 AM
He has a big game, and that is why he is having all these upsets. But still he is way too inconsistent and does not look like top 20 material for another 2-3 years. He needs to work on his conditioning, cause he is not moving well enough and his balance is not very impressive when he is on the move and therefore he is hitting tons of UE's. But he is still young so he can improve this and maybe some day get into the top 10. But top 5, as I see him now, no way!

Berdych's fitness isn't a major problem, he has lazy footwork at times. His balance isn't impressive and who are you comparing it to? He is a big guy like Safin and he actually moves quite well for his size. What do you expect him to have Hewitt like movmement, got to look at the respective builds. Sure he can get quicker, but a lack of fitness isn't an issue, he can last 5 sets easily.

He hits UE's cause he goes for his shots most of the time without thinking of the consequences, that's more of a problem.

myggen
11-04-2005, 01:54 AM
Berdych's fitness isn't a major problem, he has lazy footwork at times. His balance isn't impressive and who are you comparing it to? He is a big guy like Safin and he actually moves quite well for his size. What do you expect him to have Hewitt like movmement, got to look at the respective builds. Sure he can get quicker, but a lack of fitness isn't an issue, he can last 5 sets easily.

He hits UE's cause he goes for his shots most of the time without thinking of the consequences, that's more of a problem.


His movement is a problem, because you have to look at what kind of game he has. He is a baseline player with a good serve, but he isn't anywhere near the likes of Ljubicic, Karlovic or Roddick. If he doesn't improve his movement then he needs to develop a more aggressive net play, which is more likely. UE's will probably always be his struggle, and as I said they come from not being able to prepare his shots well enough. His strokes are powerful when well set up, but they aren't solid enough. Maybe he will hit cleaner as time go by, but right now he is quite unsteady.

Action Jackson
11-04-2005, 02:01 AM
His movement is a problem, because you have to look at what kind of game he has. He is a baseline player with a good serve, but he isn't anywhere near the likes of Ljubicic, Karlovic or Roddick. If he doesn't improve his movement then he needs to develop a more aggressive net play, which is more likely. UE's will probably always be his struggle, and as I said they come from not being able to prepare his shots well enough. His strokes are powerful when well set up, but they aren't solid enough. Maybe he will hit cleaner as time go by, but right now he is quite unsteady.

Sjengster has said he is already committed to moving forward more and will do and that takes time to implement. That's a different kind of movement needed there and moving forward for him is more of a problem than his lateral movement.

He doesn't have big swings on strokes, it's his efficiency that generates the speed, not huge swings like Roddick or Gonzalez for example. His UE errors aren't mainly cause of bad preparation, it's a part of it, but not the overriding part, it's because he sometimes lack patience and wants to finish the point too soon, he has been in perfect position and missed shots before.

I am very aware of the game that he plays, the reason is he is unsteady is cause he goes for broke most of the time, not cause he can't do it, he won't do it consistently.

myggen
11-04-2005, 02:34 AM
I agree with most of the things you say, but it isn't really his forward movement which is a problem, but the mechanics of his net play. He isn't confident with his net play mechanics so he doesn't dare to go for it often enough. But this is a big problem with most modern players. New raquet technology is promoting serve and baseline play and not so much the all court game.

Action Jackson
11-04-2005, 03:32 AM
I agree with most of the things you say, but it isn't really his forward movement which is a problem, but the mechanics of his net play. He isn't confident with his net play mechanics so he doesn't dare to go for it often enough. But this is a big problem with most modern players. New raquet technology is promoting serve and baseline play and not so much the all court game.

Well I can see where you are coming from in concern with his net play. At the same time there is the aspect some players move better laterally and than they do forward, and that impacts their positioning at net, then again this is a problem as the surfaces require specific movements.

Look at the # 1 at the moment, he is not someone who suffers from a lack of an all-court game and he uses the modern technology. I am not saying the Berdman will be # 1 one day, but if he can remain injury free, and is prepared to show a bit more patience at times, then he can do well on all surfaces, except maybe grass.

revolution
11-04-2005, 01:00 PM
Well I can see where you are coming from in concern with his net play. At the same time there is the aspect some players move better laterally and than they do forward, and that impacts their positioning at net, then again this is a problem as the surfaces require specific movements.

Look at the # 1 at the moment, he is not someone who suffers from a lack of an all-court game and he uses the modern technology. I am not saying the Berdman will be # 1 one day, but if he can remain injury free, and is prepared to show a bit more patience at times, then he can do well on all surfaces, except maybe grass.

He has a game that could blow people away on grass, the serve is pretty big, and his groundies are likely to zoom off the grass, so I don't see why he can't make an impact on the lawn.

Action Jackson
11-04-2005, 01:14 PM
He has a game that could blow people away on grass, the serve is pretty big, and his groundies are likely to zoom off the grass, so I don't see why he can't make an impact on the lawn.

Just cause you have a big serve, doesn't mean that he will play well on grass. Safin and Ljubo are clear examples of this and as for Berdych, he might and he might not, but he is set up to play better on hardcourts, and can have good results on clay.

skel1983
11-04-2005, 01:29 PM
It's the whole knee jerk reaction syndrome. Personally I think Berdych has huge potential, but it will take some time and sure he makes some huge errors at time, he might get gnarly at times on court, but he seems to forget it very quickly and the guy so far, is 5-0 in 5 setters and he is quite fit. It seems mainly cause of Nadal's success, that every single teen or young player is expected to be this successful, when that is virtually impossible.


I don't think it's because of Nadal's success, from my point of view, i know players peak at different times, look at Ljubicic he is mid twenties and playing his best tennis as is Fena, it might take a bit of time, but the majority of guys who make it have made a bigger impression than 50/60 in the world when they are twenty years old. It was a bit of a knee jerk reaction after the Murray game, but come on George you have to admit he has not kicked on like everyone expected, maybe he will reach the heights,i think he is great for tennis and has an awesome game, but like so many of us it is frustrating he is not making a bigger impact.

Action Jackson
11-04-2005, 01:37 PM
I don't think it's because of Nadal's success, from my point of view, i know players peak at different times, look at Ljubicic he is mid twenties and playing his best tennis as is Fena, it might take a bit of time, but the majority of guys who make it have made a bigger impression than 50/60 in the world when they are twenty years old. It was a bit of a knee jerk reaction after the Murray game, but come on George you have to admit he has not kicked on like everyone expected, maybe he will reach the heights,i think he is great for tennis and has an awesome game, but like so many of us it is frustrating he is not making a bigger impact.

It was a total knee jerk reaction and called it as such, though we seem to agree on this to an extent.

How is it frustrating? You are the kind that if a team loses 2 games in a row, you want to sack the manager, especially the whole thing with a new coach. Navartil has done an excellent job with him and it's going to take time, he has weapons and a few of them. I said this in my Group A/B youngster thread and nothing has changed since then, he hasn't stagnated. The way you make him out to be, it's as if he is the equal of Federer.

What do you mean everyone? I know I didn't have any expectations and his ranking isn't a disaster, he can beat the big players and blew a huge chance at the US Open, he knows what he has to work on and is doing it, whether he can execute it day in and day out, will be his key.

skel1983
11-04-2005, 01:50 PM
It was a total knee jerk reaction and called it as such, though we seem to agree on this to an extent.

How is it frustrating? You are the kind that if a team loses 2 games in a row, you want to sack the manager, especially the whole thing with a new coach. Navartil has done an excellent job with him and it's going to take time, he has weapons and a few of them. I said this in my Group A/B youngster thread and nothing has changed since then, he hasn't stagnated. The way you make him out to be, it's as if he is the equal of Federer.

What do you mean everyone? I know I didn't have any expectations and his ranking isn't a disaster, he can beat the big players and blew a huge chance at the US Open, he knows what he has to work on and is doing it, whether he can execute it day in and day out, will be his key.

Come on George did you really not expect him to be higher in the rankings??

Action Jackson
11-04-2005, 01:54 PM
Come on George did you really not expect him to be higher in the rankings??

Unlike you I don't give a crap about rankings. They only count if someone can't get into a Slam directly. They reflect his results, he will be in the top 50 again, good enough at this stage, if he makes the final here, then he'll be ranked quite well.

Come on do you expect him to be top 10 already? If you do, then that is ludicrous.

skel1983
11-04-2005, 01:58 PM
Unlike you I don't give a crap about rankings. They only count if someone can't get into a Slam directly. They reflect his results, he will be in the top 50 again, good enough at this stage, if he makes the final here, then he'll be ranked quite well.

Come on do you expect him to be top 10 already? If you do, then that is ludicrous.


Top 10???

No, but certainly higher than 50/60, rankings reflect your performance, so he has had a bad season in my mind, after this week he will shoot up the rankings, but for his second full year for me is not that impressive, you obvioulsy like Berdych alot, fair play to you, but it's my opinion and i say it how i see it, again people develop at different times etc etc, but overall it has been an avaerage season for the bird man.

Action Jackson
11-04-2005, 02:11 PM
Top 10???

No, but certainly higher than 50/60, rankings reflect your performance, so he has had a bad season in my mind, after this week he will shoot up the rankings, but for his second full year for me is not that impressive, you obvioulsy like Berdych alot, fair play to you, but it's my opinion and i say it how i see it, again people develop at different times etc etc, but overall it has been an avaerage season for the bird man.

You're overreacting, and the theory of sacking the coach was ludicrous, as there is no reason to. You lost any credibility with that point.

He is inside the top 50 and will be after this tournament. Good enough, he is in all the TMS events, he has a lot of work to do and knows that, it just doesn't come out of the sky, that good results are going to happen.

I never said it was a good season, just the fact you are overreacting to something that isn't a problem, can't have it both ways. If you are acknowledging that players develop at different speeds, the fact that Berdych will take longer than a guy like Murray to develop, as his game is different and has more dimensions, it takes longer to develop, this being the case, the results will take longer to come around.

skel1983
11-04-2005, 02:25 PM
You're overreacting, and the theory of sacking the coach was ludicrous, as there is no reason to. You lost any credibility with that point.

He is inside the top 50 and will be after this tournament. Good enough, he is in all the TMS events, he has a lot of work to do and knows that, it just doesn't come out of the sky, that good results are going to happen.

I never said it was a good season, just the fact you are overreacting to something that isn't a problem, can't have it both ways. If you are acknowledging that players develop at different speeds, the fact that Berdych will take longer than a guy like Murray to develop, as his game is different and has more dimensions, it takes longer to develop, this being the case, the results will take longer to come around.


Like i said i did overreact, but i respect your point of view, and will take it on board.

Action Jackson
11-04-2005, 02:36 PM
Like i said i did overreact, but i respect your point of view, and will take it on board.

It's the same problem I had, when someone said Monfils should sack his coach and that was one of the worst calls I have read this year.

vincayou
11-04-2005, 02:50 PM
Sometimes, the ranking doesn't reflect the improvement a player has made in his game. I'm not a follower of Berdych so I can't tell, but as long as his game improves, his ranking will eventually follow.

Neely
11-04-2005, 08:46 PM
Well, he's not at a stand still currently! ;)

Action Jackson
11-05-2005, 08:07 AM
Keep stagnating and standing still.

Neely
11-05-2005, 08:15 AM
Because Bedych won though to Paris semi finals he
has secured the 7th and last Direct entrance for CZE into
the 2006 World Team Cup

8th Place will go to a wildcard
Now Germany will need the Wildcard which they will likely get as defending champ.

Jimnik
11-05-2005, 11:40 AM
Berdych is an interesting case. His game is very similar to a certain big Russian, whom we all know. It's a game ideally suited to these indoor courts, which is why I think these next 2 matches will be crucial for him. If he can win this tournament, which he definately has the tools to do, it will be a massive breakthrough for him. Coming into 2006, he'll have the confidence he needs to progress deep into all the major tournaments.

Shockingly, Sky Sports pundit, Barry Cowan, actually predicted this at the start of the week. "I have a hunch Berdych might sneak through to the final", he said before the Ferrero match.

Action Jackson
11-05-2005, 11:44 AM
Berdych is an interesting case. His game is very similar to a certain big Russian, whom we all know. It's a game ideally suited to these indoor courts, which is why I think these next 2 matches will be crucial for him. If he can win this tournament, which he definately has the tools to do, it will be a massive breakthrough for him. Coming into 2006, he'll have the confidence he needs to progress deep into all the major tournaments.

Shockingly, Sky Sports pundit, Barry Cowan, actually predicted this at the start of the week. "I have a hunch Berdych might sneak through to the final", he said before the Ferrero match.

He can win this tournament for sure, there is no pressure on him, and he plays well against big players, though with him playing Stepanek that throws in a different dynamic, it might happen, it might not.

adee-gee
11-05-2005, 12:09 PM
Shockingly, Sky Sports pundit, Barry Cowan, actually predicted this at the start of the week. "I have a hunch Berdych might sneak through to the final", he said before the Ferrero match.

Bazza :worship:

He also said there was no absolutely chance Volandri could reach the top 50 with a serve like that a few years ago though :o Young Billy Threlfall has never let him forget it.

Action Jackson
11-05-2005, 12:13 PM
Bazza :worship:

He also said there was no absolutely chance Volandri could reach the top 50 with a serve like that a few years ago though :o Young Billy Threlfall has never let him forget it.

Hey, Berdych needs to sack his coach as he is going nowhere.

adee-gee
11-05-2005, 12:35 PM
Hey, Berdych needs to sack his coach as he is going nowhere.
Do I detect a hint of sarcasm :o

The only person that needs to sack his coach is Roddick.

Action Jackson
11-05-2005, 12:45 PM
Do I detect a hint of sarcasm :o

The only person that needs to sack his coach is Roddick.

No sarcasm, read through the thread if you have the patience and you will see my point of view on the Berdych coach sacking.

If he wins, I wonder if he is standing still then?

adee-gee
11-05-2005, 12:55 PM
No sarcasm, read through the thread if you have the patience and you will see my point of view on the Berdych coach sacking.

If he wins, I wonder if he is standing still then?
I did....You were being sarcastic then! You're completely against him sacking his coach. I don't think he's going to win today by the way, I fancy Stepanek could annoy the living daylights out of him.

Action Jackson
11-05-2005, 12:59 PM
I did....You were being sarcastic then! You're completely against him sacking his coach. I don't think he's going to win today by the way, I fancy Stepanek could annoy the living daylights out of him.

Or he could blast him off the court, Stepanek needs to lose as he doesn't win finals.

adee-gee
11-05-2005, 01:04 PM
Or he could blast him off the court, Stepanek needs to lose as he doesn't win finals.
Possibly, but I fancy Brad Pitt could get under his skin. We all know Tomas isn't the most mentally stable either. To be honest, I don't like either of their chances in the final.

Action Jackson
11-05-2005, 01:11 PM
Possibly, but I fancy Brad Pitt could get under his skin. We all know Tomas isn't the most mentally stable either. To be honest, I don't like either of their chances in the final.

Unstable guys beat Federer and Nadal, he is actually better than most of the young players in that regard, it will be up to him really how this match goes. If he is not on his game, then he will get done, if he is, then he won't lose.

Action Jackson
11-05-2005, 03:57 PM
Well done Berdman this phase of stagnation is a wonderful thing, keep standing still.

adee-gee
11-05-2005, 04:17 PM
:lol: congrats Tomas

Merton
11-05-2005, 04:28 PM
The timing of this thread was perfect, Tomas reaching his first TMS final :lol:

Action Jackson
11-05-2005, 04:31 PM
:lol: congrats Tomas

Yes, imagine if he wins this title. I am going to thank skel.

adee-gee
11-05-2005, 04:47 PM
Yes, imagine if he wins this title. I am going to thank skel.
Poor guy, he's been make to look a little foolish.

Merton
11-05-2005, 04:50 PM
Poor guy, he's been make to look a little foolish.

It is not a big deal, overreaction is quite common. There was a famous article in the Economist in 1999 (i think) where they claimed that we enter an era of permanently low crude oil prices. Well, we all know what happened after that.

kundalini
11-05-2005, 04:58 PM
Well I got this one totally wrong.

Berdych has had a superb week - I wonder why it has happened this week?

Berdych (previously at a standstill) now with serious momentum.

sigmagirl91
11-05-2005, 09:59 PM
If Berdych is at a standstill, then Roger's falling out of the top 50 next year.

vincayou
11-05-2005, 10:42 PM
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I think that skel should not be laughed at for what he said. Well not too much. Not many people would have bet on Berdych making the final of Bercy. Especially before knowing that the field would be so depleted.

Action Jackson
11-06-2005, 07:34 AM
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I think that skel should not be laughed at for what he said. Well not too much. Not many people would have bet on Berdych making the final of Bercy. Especially before knowing that the field would be so depleted.

I called it crap and an overreaction beforehand. Actually I gave clear reasons as to why, and good to see you have your depleted field excuse lined up.

Deivid23
11-06-2005, 08:59 AM
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I think that skel should not be laughed at for what he said. Well not too much. Not many people would have bet on Berdych making the final of Bercy. Especially before knowing that the field would be so depleted.

Why not? Those who have always believed in him are no surprised at him making a TMS final, it was just a matter of time.

silverwhite
11-06-2005, 09:03 AM
Why not? Those who have always believed in him are no surprised at him making a TMS final, it was just a matter of time.

The contrary wouldn't have surprised me either, to tell you the truth. :shrug:

Action Jackson
11-06-2005, 09:05 AM
The contrary wouldn't have surprised me either, to tell you the truth. :shrug:

If Portas can win a TMS, then Berdych can make a TMS final.

Deivid23
11-06-2005, 09:07 AM
The contrary wouldn't have surprised me either, to tell you the truth. :shrug:

Sure. But looking and his draw and knowing about his potential and how his game can suit these conditions it sounded like he had a realistic chance, therefore is not such a surprise, hopefully he will reach a lot of more finals

silverwhite
11-06-2005, 09:08 AM
If Portas can win a TMS, then Berdych can make a TMS final.

Yes. Which is why I'm not surprised he made a TMS final. I'm just saying that I wouldn't have been surprised either if he DID NOT make a TMS final. :shrug:

Action Jackson
11-06-2005, 09:13 AM
Yes. Which is why I'm not surprised he made a TMS final. I'm just saying that I wouldn't have been surprised either if he DID NOT make a TMS final. :shrug:

Considering this thread basically was an overreaction to how Berdych was going and to me it would be a surprise if he didn't make at least 1 TMS final in his career.

silverwhite
11-06-2005, 09:16 AM
Considering this thread basically was an overreaction to how Berdych was going and to me it would be a surprise if he didn't make at least 1 TMS final in his career.

I'm the pessimistic sort who doesn't expect too much. ;)

Action Jackson
11-06-2005, 09:17 AM
I'm the pessimistic sort who doesn't expect too much. ;)

I never said he'd win Slams or TMS events, but he is good enough to make these kinds of finals.

silverwhite
11-06-2005, 09:20 AM
I never said he'd win Slams or TMS events, but he is good enough to make these kinds of finals.

Yes, but I wouldn't even expect that much. Pessimistic is my middle name, like I mentioned. ;)

Deivid23
11-06-2005, 09:23 AM
Yes. Which is why I'm not surprised he made a TMS final. I'm just saying that I wouldn't have been surprised either if he DID NOT make a TMS final. :shrug:

Itīs pretty obvious it wouldnīt have been a suprise Berdych not making the finals here, so I donīt see whatīs your point. If you wouldnīt have been surprised if Berdych wouldnīt have made a TMS in his career, then youīll get along quite well with skel.

Action Jackson
11-06-2005, 09:25 AM
Itīs pretty obvious it wouldnīt have been a suprise Berdych not making the finals here, so I donīt see whatīs your point. If you wouldnīt have been surprised if Berdych wouldnīt have made a TMS in his career, then youīll get along quite well with skel.

He likes Berdych, it's just that he is pessimistic, it comes through as a fan of Mathieu, expecting talent players, not to fullfil their promise or at least make an attempt to do so.

silverwhite
11-06-2005, 09:25 AM
Itīs pretty obvious it wouldnīt have been a suprise Berdych not making the finals here, so I donīt see whatīs your point. If you wouldnīt have been surprised if Berdych wouldnīt have made a TMS in his career, then youīll get along quite well with skel.

My point is that I wouldn't have been surprised whether he made a TMS final in his career or not, and I agree with Vincayou that hindsight is a powerful thing.

And don't attack me for being a pessimist! :ras:

silverwhite
11-06-2005, 09:26 AM
He likes Berdych, it's just that he is pessimistic, it comes through as a fan of Mathieu, expecting talent players, not to fullfil their promise or at least make an attempt to do so.

You read me very well, GWH. :eek: Paulo has definitely given his fans a lot of practice in that! :o

Action Jackson
11-06-2005, 09:28 AM
My point is that I wouldn't have been surprised whether he made a TMS final in his career or not, and I agree with Vincayou that hindsight is a powerful thing.

As for hindsight it wasn't me who said he was stagnating, as for whether I think he will win this tournament I don't know, all I have ever said he is inconsistent and his results will get better, but he still needs time to develop.

Deivid23
11-06-2005, 09:30 AM
My point is that I wouldn't have been surprised whether he made a TMS final in his career or not, and I agree with Vincayou that hindsight is a powerful thing.

And don't attack me for being a pessimist! :ras:

About the hindsight, itīs not like Iīve not praised and trusted on Berdych enough so although hindsight is more accurate than foresight, I had some valid points that Berdych is starting to back up these days.

If you say you wouldnīt be surprised if Berdych hadnīt reach a TMS in his career then it would be a good idea Skel and you would exchange emails or tph numbers as I see a great potential on that relationship :lol:

Deivid23
11-06-2005, 09:33 AM
He likes Berdych, it's just that he is pessimistic, it comes through as a fan of Mathieu, expecting talent players, not to fullfil their promise or at least make an attempt to do so.

I know, just I like to mess around with silverwhite and vincayou ;)

Action Jackson
11-06-2005, 09:34 AM
I know, just I like to mess around with silverwhite and vincayou ;)

silverwhite is alright, but vincayou I can see why.

silverwhite
11-06-2005, 09:34 AM
About the hindsight, itīs not like Iīve not praised and trusted on Berdych enough so although hindsight is more accurate than foresight, I had some valid points that Berdych is starting to back up these days.

If you say you wouldnīt be surprised if Berdych hadnīt reach a TMS in his career then it would be a good idea Skel and you would exchange emails or tph numbers as I see a great potential on that relationship :lol:

I'm not a troll. I'm just pessimistic. :sad:

Deivid23
11-06-2005, 09:36 AM
I'm not a troll. I'm just pessimistic. :sad:

:hug:

Deivid23
11-06-2005, 09:40 AM
silverwhite is alright, but vincayou I can see why.

Itīs an old relationship coming off those days when those Gasquet and Nadal threads came up and I considered Richard was way too hyped considering what he had achieved. It started as a fight but I think weīve known each other (they should know by now I like Gasquet since the beginning) and have no hard feelings among us (not my case, at least)

Action Jackson
11-06-2005, 09:43 AM
I'm not a troll. I'm just pessimistic. :sad:

If trolls were like you, then this place would be in better shape than it is. I mean come on you see should see some of the duds I support, then you would see pessimist, then again I still didn't believe Gaudio won RG, until the words GSM were said.

L James
11-06-2005, 09:44 AM
Berdych is one hell of a powerhouse hitter. When he's on he's scary

Peta Pan
11-06-2005, 09:51 AM
Ok I've just read through the whole thread and had a good laugh. I just love the sight of egg on face!! Although I'm rather torn on the result of today's match, just for the sake of this thread it would be fantastic for Tomas to win :yeah:

vincayou
11-06-2005, 10:04 AM
I called it crap and an overreaction beforehand. Actually I gave clear reasons as to why, and good to see you have your depleted field excuse lined up.

The depleted field is not an excuse because I want him to do well. Just that, add Safin, Federer and Nadal in the draw, and making it to the final is suddendly is bit harder.
He didn't beat push overs yet, because Stepanek by instance is as tough as it can be in Bercy as he likes very much the surface here. Gasquet, by instance, had a much easier draw in Hamburg to go to the final.

vincayou
11-06-2005, 10:09 AM
Itīs an old relationship coming off those days when those Gasquet and Nadal threads came up and I considered Richard was way too hyped considering what he had achieved. It started as a fight but I think weīve known each other (they should know by now I like Gasquet since the beginning) and have no hard feelings among us (not my case, at least)

:wavey:

no hard feeling of course, you are one of my favourite posters. It would be a lame board if everybody was agreeing all the time

Action Jackson
11-06-2005, 10:10 AM
The depleted field is not an excuse because I want him to do well. Just that, add Safin, Federer and Nadal in the draw, and making it to the final is suddendly is bit harder.
He didn't beat push overs yet, because Stepanek by instance is as tough as it can be in Bercy as he likes very much the surface here. Gasquet, by instance, had a much easier draw in Hamburg to go to the final.

We all know the field is depleted, it doesn't take a genius to work that out, but if Berdych wins the excuse will be used. It's not like he is scared of Federer, Nadal or Safin, he doesn't give a crap about reputations unlike some other players.

vincayou
11-06-2005, 10:16 AM
We all know the field is depleted, it doesn't take a genius to work that out, but if Berdych wins the excuse will be used. It's not like he is scared of Federer, Nadal or Safin, he doesn't give a crap about reputations unlike some other players.

I think that this excuse will stop in final, because beating a red hot Ljubicic on indoor will deserve you a master title. If he does that, no need to add an asterisk with depleted field next to his title.

Action Jackson
11-06-2005, 10:19 AM
I think that this excuse will stop in final, because beating a red hot Ljubicic on indoor will deserve you a master title. If he does that, no need to add an asterisk with depleted field next to his title.

You have been here long enough to know that won't be the case, even if somehow Berdman was able to concentrate and win in 3 sets, there will the Ljubo choked or he's tired excuse will come out.

Castafiore
11-06-2005, 10:43 AM
Why don't we just wait until the end of that final until we start talking about stupid 'he choked'/'depleted field' crap excuses?

Question: why does Ljubicic gets so many negative comments on MTF? I haven't quite followed the story. I know he said some things about Roddick but why do so many people here dislike him?

It's just a matter of time until Berdych wins a good title and it could well be this afternoon because he sure has the ability to beat Ljubicic.
On the other hand, Ljubicic has had a great indoor season so it would be nice to crown that with a Masters title.
Good result either way for me.

Action Jackson
11-06-2005, 10:47 AM
Why don't we just wait until the end of that final until we start talking about stupid 'he choked'/'depleted field' crap excuses?

Question: why does Ljubicic gets so many negative comments on MTF? I haven't quite followed the story. I know he said some things about Roddick but why do so many people here dislike him?

It's just a matter of time until Berdych wins a good title and it could well be this afternoon because he sure has the ability to beat Ljubicic.

I wouldn't know I actually don't dislike Ljubo or ever have? The Least Liked Thread in here would be a better place to ask that question.

Why wait to the final? These are the 2 players in it and one of them has to win and just seeing the predictable nature of MTF and the excuses will happen.

Castafiore
11-06-2005, 10:55 AM
You're only focussing on the excuses made for Berdych, GWH (Ljubi is tired, wrapped knee, chokes in big events outside DC,...)

What possible crap excuses will people on MTF use if Ljubicic wins?

Action Jackson
11-06-2005, 11:03 AM
You're only focussing on the excuses made for Berdych, GWH (Ljubi is tired, wrapped knee, chokes in big events outside DC,...)

What possible crap excuses will people on MTF use if Ljubicic wins?

Yes, the Ljubo excuses I have spoken about in the final thread, depleted field which go for both of them, he's tired and injured, but if Ljubo wins I won't be making excuses, others can do that.

Anyway skel has Berdych got enough momentum now?

silverwhite
11-06-2005, 01:04 PM
Itīs an old relationship coming off those days when those Gasquet and Nadal threads came up and I considered Richard was way too hyped considering what he had achieved. It started as a fight but I think weīve known each other (they should know by now I like Gasquet since the beginning) and have no hard feelings among us (not my case, at least)

You know it's the same for me. :p

silverwhite
11-06-2005, 01:06 PM
You have been here long enough to know that won't be the case, even if somehow Berdman was able to concentrate and win in 3 sets, there will the Ljubo choked or he's tired excuse will come out.

I can definitely see certain posters using those excuses. ;)

silverwhite
11-06-2005, 01:09 PM
Question: why does Ljubicic gets so many negative comments on MTF? I haven't quite followed the story. I know he said some things about Roddick but why do so many people here dislike him?


He has made some snide remarks about other players like Gasquet and Puerta. I don't dislike him though, but I can see why certain posters would feel offended, especially by his comments on Mariano.

Action Jackson
11-06-2005, 04:20 PM
Thanks skel you are the man, he bought the best out of Berdych.

He is standing still holding a TMS trophy.

http://www.platterpus.com/images/59279.jpg

Peoples
11-06-2005, 04:39 PM
Why are you bringing this old thing up now that he won the title in this tournament where almost nobody decent took part in? And look at the easy draw he had.

Besides Ljubicic was so tired in the final that he could barely move, he was injured in the knee, he had to be careful not to make the injury worse looking forward to Davis Cup final. He didn't run to many of the balls which he normally gets. Ljubicic also completed a huge choking in the 5th like he did in Madrid, so of course Berdych took the opportunity to take the title.

That's 7 great reasons to prove the thread starter may be right. Berdych now has 1 more title but his abilities may well be at a stand still.

Action Jackson
11-06-2005, 04:44 PM
Why are you bringing this old thing up now that he won the title in this tournament where almost nobody decent took part in? And look at the easy draw he had.

Besides Ljubicic was so tired in the final that he could barely move, he was injured in the knee, he had to be careful not to make the injury worse looking forward to Davis Cup final. He didn't run to many of the balls which he normally gets. Ljubicic also completed a huge choking in the 5th like he did in Madrid, so of course Berdych took the opportunity to take the title.

That's 7 great reasons to prove the thread starter may be right. Berdych now has 1 more title but his abilities may well be at a stand still.

http://forums.macmerc.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/whine.gif

Ljubo was fit enough to take court and if he is fit enough to take the court, then he has to deal with the consequences and he won't be making excuses, he had his chance not good enough.

Yes, he won this tournament and who expected him to win it beforehand? Every player he beat was ranked above him, yet he got a free ride from Ferrero, Stepanek and Ljubo.

shotgun
11-06-2005, 04:46 PM
Question: why does Ljubicic gets so many negative comments on MTF? I haven't quite followed the story. I know he said some things about Roddick but why do so many people here dislike him?


Poor Ljubo, maybe he's the only player that achieved "hated" status on MTF because of his fans' behaviour. :shrug:

tangerine_dream
11-06-2005, 05:02 PM
This Berdych guy causes so many problems for the top players. I remember his match against Agassi at USO, he gave me some heart attacks there. What do you all think it is about Berdych that makes him so dangerous?

Berdych seems to be the ultimate party-crasher these days. :lol: It almost makes me admire Andy Murray all the more for actually managing to beat him back in Basel.

adee-gee
11-06-2005, 05:06 PM
:rolls: :rolls: :rolls: :rolls: :rolls:

Merton
11-06-2005, 05:46 PM
Why are you bringing this old thing up now that he won the title in this tournament where almost nobody decent took part in? And look at the easy draw he had.

Besides Ljubicic was so tired in the final that he could barely move, he was injured in the knee, he had to be careful not to make the injury worse looking forward to Davis Cup final. He didn't run to many of the balls which he normally gets. Ljubicic also completed a huge choking in the 5th like he did in Madrid, so of course Berdych took the opportunity to take the title.

That's 7 great reasons to prove the thread starter may be right. Berdych now has 1 more title but his abilities may well be at a stand still.

He won against Ferrero, Stepanek and Ljubicic. All have way better records indoors than Tomas. Besides, beating three top-10 players in a week, how can you say the field was week? Yes, it would be way stronger with Marat, Roger and Rafa but one always plays against people in front of him.

I don't get the "Ljubo was tired" excuse. Tomas did not have a buy in 1st round, so he played one more round than Ljubo in the week.

sigmagirl91
11-06-2005, 10:26 PM
skel, where are ya, man?
For a man whose career is supposedly in a holding pattern, Berdych managed to earn a Masters shield.

Plastic Bertrand
11-09-2005, 02:43 AM
It seems Berdych must have read this thread and so did Navratil before the tournament started and skel seems to have been an inspiration for his outstanding player during the last week and as for standing still, he is probably standing still drinking some quality Czech beer now.

Merton
11-05-2007, 12:56 AM
BUMP :angel:

Merton
11-05-2007, 12:59 AM
So Tomas finishes the year with 1685 points, roughly the same as the 1705 points he had at the same point last year. He failed to make the cut for the TMC.

shotgun
11-05-2007, 01:16 AM
No real progress this year. The mental fragility is the same and he still hasn't worked on some dimensions of his game like developing a slice-BH or adding some variation to his serve. Time for Navratil to show his coaching skills.

Action Jackson
11-05-2007, 03:34 AM
Berdman is just existing on his talent and hasn't been prepared so far to make the necessary changes unlike some of his peers to improve his game.

Merton
11-05-2007, 04:24 AM
The thing is that it is clear Tomas has not maximized his potential. If he is happy what he is doing right now that is fine, but there is obvious room for improvement.

Mike Kim
11-05-2007, 08:52 AM
Overrated player who has a terrible mentality and personality. He is easily the most boring player on tour, try and speak with the guy and he will put you to sleep. I also hate his gamesmanship

Action Jackson
11-23-2007, 01:48 AM
The thing is that it is clear Tomas has not maximized his potential. If he is happy what he is doing right now that is fine, but there is obvious room for improvement.

After watching the PMK give Berdych another lesson this year. I wrote this and it pretty much holds true now.

Watching Berdych against the PMK and you could see Berdych was beaten before he went on court, but at the moment in many ways he is just existing on his talents and I said this a year ago about him and it still holds true now.

In the off season Navratil should get Berdych to learn how to hit a kick serve consistently and the slice serve to forehand where it's intentional and not a mishit.

He just can't just hit big flat serves all the time, in pression situations this is where he double faults and has a very small margin for error, the guy is 1.96m he should be able to get some wonderful angles and bounce from the court, but he lets the ball drop at the wrong height to hit those serves.

Berdych needs to work on that slice backhand, vary his serve and throwing in some off paced shots, not Nadal moonballs, when his main game isn't working. It can help instead of just hitting error after error. I mean not use that as the base of his game, which he has, but these extra dimensions would help him.

He will probably make another 4th round at the AO and not go further and lose to Davydenko.

Merton
11-23-2007, 10:06 PM
After watching the PMK give Berdych another lesson this year. I wrote this and it pretty much holds true now.

Watching Berdych against the PMK and you could see Berdych was beaten before he went on court, but at the moment in many ways he is just existing on his talents and I said this a year ago about him and it still holds true now.

In the off season Navratil should get Berdych to learn how to hit a kick serve consistently and the slice serve to forehand where it's intentional and not a mishit.

He just can't just hit big flat serves all the time, in pression situations this is where he double faults and has a very small margin for error, the guy is 1.96m he should be able to get some wonderful angles and bounce from the court, but he lets the ball drop at the wrong height to hit those serves.

Berdych needs to work on that slice backhand, vary his serve and throwing in some off paced shots, not Nadal moonballs, when his main game isn't working. It can help instead of just hitting error after error. I mean not use that as the base of his game, which he has, but these extra dimensions would help him.

He will probably make another 4th round at the AO and not go further and lose to Davydenko.

Thanks for this analysis, it would be good if Tomas actually puts on the work in the off season. It is totally up to him at the moment, hopefully missing the TMC has shaken him enough, especially since he had the chances to make it there.

Action Jackson
12-02-2007, 02:21 PM
Thanks for this analysis, it would be good if Tomas actually puts on the work in the off season. It is totally up to him at the moment, hopefully missing the TMC has shaken him enough, especially since he had the chances to make it there.

Yes, he had chances to make Shanghai this year, but the 1st round loss to GGL at RG didn't help him at all.

Like I said he needs to make some changes to his game or some adjustments to get the most out of his game, but got to love the moody Czech mentality. It will be interesting to see where he finishes in the rankings.

He is capable on all surfaces of good wins and shocking losses. Just hitting flat isn't going to do it when conditions aren't in his favour.

Action Jackson
12-26-2007, 02:37 PM
He trained in the Tatra mountains doing some physical work and that's a good thing I think to give him the base he needs for a big season including Davis Cup and the Olympics.

Also it's a big year for him, he says he wants to finish in the top 10, but he needs to perform better in big events. He has the talent to do it, doesn't mean he will.

Xristos
12-26-2007, 05:08 PM
Look for him to go deep in Melbourne.