Is the season too long, or are the players just desperate? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Is the season too long, or are the players just desperate?

Horatio Caine
10-18-2005, 08:56 AM
I read a comment this morning in the "Rafa injury" thread and it got me thinking.

Yet again I stand firm and say it is the players that are wrong. For the top players, they need to play 4 GS, 9 MS and 5 optionals = 18 events. I feel that the maximum number of events they should play is 23 - thus giving them 5 more chances to get a good bunch of optional results counting towards their ranking. I also think they shouldn't play more than for 3 weeks without a weeks rest...especially those that go deep into most draws - *cough* Nadal *cough*

For players that aren't at the top of the game, I reckon 23 - 27 tournaments a year is a maximum for them - this would allow them a good chance to work their way up the rankings quickly, and if a player is losing 1st round many times, it would probably give him the realisation sooner rather than later that he is not good enough, thus saving time and money!

Why then am I seeing several top 50 players hitting the 30+ tournament barrier? Such players are - Beck, Sanguinetti, Srichaphan, Volandri and Andreev. And what a surprise, at least 2 of those guys are carrying injuries!!

I want to see the ATP impose sanctions on the number of tournaments players can enter - it should help reduce stress on their bodies, put over-inflated rankings down to the level they should really be at, and it might even help spread the Race points about so that the Race becomes more competitive (probably from outside the top 15 or so).

adee-gee
10-18-2005, 09:00 AM
Fair points Jez.....

I get a bit annoyed when players moan and moan. They're getting good money and doing something they love every day. It happens in every sport. No-one forces them to play any events, and its up to them how many they wish to play. Yes, injuries are unfortunate but its part and parcel of sport, and you have to accept you're going to get some. I personally think the season is fine :shrug:

Horatio Caine
10-18-2005, 09:04 AM
I personally think the season is fine :shrug:

My point exactly mate - the only qualms I have with it are the Davis Cup format which needs changing (to what I don't know) and mayve there should be 1 week of optionals between back-to-back Masters events - this would benefit players who had early exits from the first Masters event.

adee-gee
10-18-2005, 09:10 AM
My point exactly mate - the only qualms I have with it are the Davis Cup format which needs changing (to what I don't know) and mayve there should be 1 week of optionals between back-to-back Masters events - this would benefit players who had early exits from the first Masters event.

I know I'm agreeing with most of what you say. Back-to-back TMS also works against those who do well. We've seen a lot of players either pull out or go out early after reaching the latter stages the previous week. I'm not sure what to do with the DC, I still think a tournament that is similar to a World Cup (soccer) would be fantastic. Get all the nations at 1 venue, and have a 2 week tournament. Fans from all across the world can go and support their country.

Galaxystorm
10-18-2005, 09:16 AM
As far as i remember in these moments :scratch: tennis has the longest season among the main international sports , the competition begins the first week of January and ends in December ( for those Davis cup players ), and it's insane too many months of competition.

But unlike other sports , tennis players can play the tournaments that they want , can make their own schedule and can decide which weeks and how many weeks to rest . Tennis players are free lance (self employed) and they aren't forced to play all the weeks

I think one of the main problems with the injuries in tennis is that some players abuse playing too many international series because they know that in GS and AMS aren't able to do great things , when in theory playing 5-7 international series plus GM and AMS would be enough , but these players use the international series as his salvation to keep a good ranking position trying to get the maximum number of points in these best other 5 results ( international series ).

To sum up, tennis season is too much long and it should be shortened but also the players should plan schedules more logical.

its.like.that
10-18-2005, 09:32 AM
it's way too long

Galaxystorm
10-18-2005, 09:45 AM
Personally i consider you are making a mistake.

It's true that the top players should play between 18 and 23 approximately etc.... But you are just considering the physical tiredness and not the mental fatigue .

Although a player only played 18 tounaments during the season , between two tournaments the player has to continue to practise and train, and has to continue to be focused on tennis , and this concentration also wears the player out

The first mandatory event begins the 3rd week of January ( Aus open ) and ends in the middle of November ( Masters cup , not counting Davis cup ) ,approximately 11 months of competition and i don't know a lot of sports with a season so long.

The only moment when the player can disconnect mentally is when the season is finished and a lot of players go on holidays to an island with his girlfriend/wife and they don't make no physical exercise and don't think in tennis . During the season a player can have at the most serveral consecutive days of holidays but this isn't really holidays because your mind is still thinking in tennis.

I think you have forgotten one esential aspect in the sports which the mental fatigue which can also entail injuries . And a season with 11 months of competition is insane for the mind.

Castafiore
10-18-2005, 10:02 AM
Almost every sport has an off-season. Tennis doesn't really have one.

Also, the way to get and hold a good ranking is not always as relevant and demanding in other sports.

In cycling, there's also a ranking but most cyclists don't really care all that much for that ranking.
In tennis, a good ranking will allow you to be seeded for events, gives you certain advantages over lower ranked players, no?
In cycling, a ranking doesn't make a damn bit of difference. You don't get a 'bye' for the first etapes in the Tour de France for example and there's no such thing as a "seed". At the start of a race, all the cyclists start with the same advantages and disadvantages. They don't have to do qualifying races just to have the chance to enter the Vuelta. Sure, they have to prove that they are fit enough and good enough to be part of the team but they have a longer period to do so.
Also, most cyclists pick and choose their events. Many of them do enter other races of course, but they don't really care all that much for the end results of those races because to them, it's just training. All that counts are just a couple of weeks every year. People like Armstrong or Ullrich focus their entire season on just three weeks and the rest of the year is a preparation for those three weeks. Tennis players get to pick and choose as well but the pressure to keep a good ranking is more important.
I've read some article before on how long it takes a body to train and prepare for a peak level in order to give a top performance and how long you can hold on to that peak performance. It's amazing how long it takes to get to that point and how quickly that peak period passes.
Hence, cyclists tend to select their goals and aim for a peak performance once a year. Most tennis players try to aim for a peak performance several times a year.

nobama
10-18-2005, 10:58 AM
The Tennis Week Interview: Roger Federer - 11/6/2004 (http://www.sportsmediainc.net/tennisweek/index.cfm?func=showarticle&newsid=11718&bannerregion=)

Tennis Week: What do you make of the talk of player withdrawals, player injuries resulting from a long season and players defending their right to withdraw to protect themselves from aggravating injuries. I saw Roddick's comments in Paris earlier this week..

Roger Federer: What did he say?

Tennis Week: He basically said "In what other sport do you play 11 months of the year? I am going to finish my season on December 5th and start next year on January 5th. I would rather pull out of an event than injure myself. If they can't understand the way an athlete works, it's too bad." Is the schedule too long? Is it too long? Does it need to be shortened to protect the players from injuries? What do you think?

Roger Federer: I think in a way the season is definitely long. But you can adjust your schedule. Scheduling is very important in my career. I have to make sure I don't just chase tournaments. I just play my schedule I really like to play. I don't think that is an excuse for any of the players because that's just how the tour is. We have a great tour. We should not forget that. We have many, many highlights in our year and you have to be ready for them. And sometimes you are tired. Don't play if you are too tired. If you think, "I really should help the sport", you know you should go play even though you are tired, but still make sure you prevent injuries.

Tennis Week: So you have to take care of yourself.

Roger Federer: You have to take care of yourself. You have to be aggressive sometimes, but not all the time. Think about the fans around the world who want to see you. Think about tournament directors who love to have you there. Think about the sponsors who support the game. I think you have to make it up to all of them. Because we are living our dreams basically because of them. We didn't start when we were three years old because we wanted to play on Wimbledon's Centre Court. We started because we loved playing, we loved hitting the ball and suddenly we make it there. We live the tour and let's say we start saying: "Oh, the tour is too long, I'm too tired." I don't agree.

Tennis Week: You can't have it both ways.

Roger Federer: No. You have to make some sacrifices for this life we have. You can't play tennis 'till you're 60. The career already stops at 30 or 35 years old because then your body is used, you're tired of traveling and so on, so you might as well enjoy it now while you can.

alfonsojose
10-18-2005, 02:29 PM
Nadal's schedule was as stupid as JesusFed playing for more cash in Asia. It's all their faults

Galaxystorm
10-18-2005, 02:40 PM
Nadal's schedule was as stupid as JesusFed playing for more cash in Asia. It's all their faults
:yeah:

Fee
10-18-2005, 04:33 PM
Challenger level players have to play as much as they can in order to make money. Jeff Morrison told me that he played 28 events last year when he was healthy and he had to do it to keep his ranking up and pay his bills. Players in the Top 50 have more flexibility to adjust their schedules and take time off. The season needs to be shorter. The tour should be done by the first week in November (including Masters Cup) and the circuits should be done 2 weeks after that.

Scotso
10-18-2005, 04:35 PM
But don't you think if it's shorter, a lot of the lower ranked players won't be able to afford to pay the bills anymore?

If players don't want to play as much, they have that option.

Fee
10-18-2005, 04:43 PM
No, I think they'll be at home, living cheaply for a few more weeks.

There are some benefits for the 200-300 ranked guys that they can still get points right up until the Aus Open entry cutoff (December 5th this year) and some of them will really need it, but these same guys will tell you that yes, the season is too long and part of the reason they are out there still playing tournaments is because the 'other guy' is still out there playing tournaments.

Fumus
10-18-2005, 04:55 PM
The season is too long. No one debates that but, tennis is an international sport and largely makes it money from these events. So it's hard to give events up because the more you have the more money you make. As players you need to smart about picking events, if you can do that, your career will last longer.

Lee
10-18-2005, 05:39 PM
Challenger level players have to play as much as they can in order to make money. Jeff Morrison told me that he played 28 events last year when he was healthy and he had to do it to keep his ranking up and pay his bills. Players in the Top 50 have more flexibility to adjust their schedules and take time off. The season needs to be shorter. The tour should be done by the first week in November (including Masters Cup) and the circuits should be done 2 weeks after that.

I agree with the season needs to be shorter.

Unless you're Nadal or Federer, who won almost every tournaments they entered, it's not easy to maintain a top 50 rankings that allows you to be flexible with your schedules. A player in the rankings between 50-100, he entered events for 3 consecutive weeks, he doesn't know how far he will go in each tournament. If he has a great 3 weeks, he will play over 10 matches but he may be out in every 1st round and only played 3. He can't withdraw from the next tournament when he's still playing in current one, otherwise face a fine. So, it's really not that easy, IMO.

No, I think they'll be at home, living cheaply for a few more weeks.

There are some benefits for the 200-300 ranked guys that they can still get points right up until the Aus Open entry cutoff (December 5th this year) and some of them will really need it, but these same guys will tell you that yes, the season is too long and part of the reason they are out there still playing tournaments is because the 'other guy' is still out there playing tournaments.

The same case with higher rank players, you have to go to work, when the work is available, in order to maintain your status, otherwise, you'll be out of work.

Lee
10-18-2005, 06:08 PM
But unlike other sports , tennis players can play the tournaments that they want , can make their own schedule and can decide which weeks and how many weeks to rest . Tennis players are free lance (self employed) and they aren't forced to play all the weeks



The problem is, because they are free lance, they are not guaranteed with a pay check every week or month. Not like many other professional sports. Thus, they can't be too picky in choosing what tournaments to play. They pay for most of their expenses and if they're only in 1st or 2nd round of tournaments (other than the BIG ones), there's not a lot of money left.

And when they're injuried, there're medical bills to pay and zero income unless you're like Federer, Agassi, etc with BIG sponsors.

NYCtennisfan
10-18-2005, 06:23 PM
The season is too long for the top players. For everyone else, it's not that bad. If you're winning one or two matches here and there, playing 30+ tourneys is not that big of a deal.

It will never change. There is too much money to be made. It is a lot better now compared to 20-25 years ago when the there was NO off-season. Players had to create their own down time by usually skipping the Australian swing at the end of the year or the beginning of the year hence leaving the AO as not really a slam for many years.

Action Jackson
10-19-2005, 04:39 AM
It's too long and the off season isn't long enough for them to recover from the year and prepare physically in that period for the next season. Though the only ones who can take time off properly during the season are the better ranked players, the reasons have already been explained already by previous posters.

Billy Moonshine
10-19-2005, 10:43 AM
Its too long sure, but as has been said many times, no one is forcing the guys to play 30 plus tournaments a year. Sure, they may need to in order to pay the bills but that is the same for everyone who works and isnt at the top of their respective careers. Fed can stop now and rest ( injuries my ass) because he can afford it, he is the boss. Maybe jeff Morrison and his ilk should quit whinging and get a new job.
Unfortunately for the tour, it is going to eat itself. The madrid masters is a heavily criticised tournament for two years now due to the lack of no shows and of course the scheduling is partly to blame because by now everyone is exhausted. But one would think the ATP would plan for this and maybe reduce the status of the tournament to international series thus avoiding the disaster it looks like becoming. But the tour has overhyped and over marketed itself. It wants 4 slams and 9 masters and wants to push them as premium sporting events, but clearly it isnt totally succesful. My plan would be to cut the masters series to five, changing some of the tournament venues and dates- Paris ( Indoors, Feb), Miami (Rebound ace, March), Monte carlo ( Clay, April), Queens ( Grass June), Tokyo ( September, Hard).

nobama
10-19-2005, 10:57 AM
Fed can stop now and rest ( injuries my ass) because he can afford it, he is the boss.
http://www.diariosur.es/pg051017/prensa/fotos/200510/17/028D1UL-DDD-P1_1.jpg

So I suppose he decided to show up at a soccer match on crutches just for the hell of it? :scratch:

Of course the top players can afford to "rest", but there's nothing special about them that prevents them from being injured just like anyone else.

nobama
10-19-2005, 11:12 AM
It's too long and the off season isn't long enough for them to recover from the year and prepare physically in that period for the next season. Though the only ones who can take time off properly during the season are the better ranked players, the reasons have already been explained already by previous posters.And how many of the better ranked players do take the proper time off? It's a players own fault if they choose to play a ridiculous schedule when they don't have too. Did Nadal have to play in Sweden and Germany after Wimbledon? If he had no plans to play any hard court events other than Montreal, Cincy and USO, why not take time off to rest and properly prepare for USO?

Fee
10-19-2005, 03:57 PM
Its too long sure, but as has been said many times, no one is forcing the guys to play 30 plus tournaments a year. Sure, they may need to in order to pay the bills but that is the same for everyone who works and isnt at the top of their respective careers. Fed can stop now and rest ( injuries my ass) because he can afford it, he is the boss. Maybe jeff Morrison and his ilk should quit whinging and get a new job.


HIS ILK?

And you call yourself a tennis fan? You need to a get a clue, even a small one, about what the lives of these guys are like. Gawd, you are so beyond help I can't even think straight enough to explain clearly how completely mornoic your post is. Please, go watch a rugby match or something.... :mad: :mad: :mad:

Lee
10-19-2005, 05:05 PM
And how many of the better ranked players do take the proper time off? It's a players own fault if they choose to play a ridiculous schedule when they don't have too. Did Nadal have to play in Sweden and Germany after Wimbledon? If he had no plans to play any hard court events other than Montreal, Cincy and USO, why not take time off to rest and properly prepare for USO?

Yes, and people will start screaming that Nadal only plays on clay. One hell of a dirtballer ;) :rolleyes:

Billy Moonshine
10-20-2005, 01:57 AM
HIS ILK?

And you call yourself a tennis fan? You need to a get a clue, even a small one, about what the lives of these guys are like. Gawd, you are so beyond help I can't even think straight enough to explain clearly how completely mornoic your post is. Please, go watch a rugby match or something.... :mad: :mad: :mad:

As up your ass as ever arent u Fee?
Everyone elses posts are moronic etc.
Yeah, their lives are so hard, boo hoo hoo.

oneandonlyhsn
10-20-2005, 02:18 AM
Its too long sure, but as has been said many times, no one is forcing the guys to play 30 plus tournaments a year. Sure, they may need to in order to pay the bills but that is the same for everyone who works and isnt at the top of their respective careers. Fed can stop now and rest ( injuries my ass) because he can afford it, he is the boss. Maybe jeff Morrison and his ilk should quit whinging and get a new job.
Unfortunately for the tour, it is going to eat itself. The madrid masters is a heavily criticised tournament for two years now due to the lack of no shows and of course the scheduling is partly to blame because by now everyone is exhausted. But one would think the ATP would plan for this and maybe reduce the status of the tournament to international series thus avoiding the disaster it looks like becoming. But the tour has overhyped and over marketed itself. It wants 4 slams and 9 masters and wants to push them as premium sporting events, but clearly it isnt totally succesful. My plan would be to cut the masters series to five, changing some of the tournament venues and dates- Paris ( Indoors, Feb), Miami (Rebound ace, March), Monte carlo ( Clay, April), Queens ( Grass June), Tokyo ( September, Hard).

Do you even know what you are talking about :rolleyes: you actually sound like you believe your tripe :lol:

Fee
10-20-2005, 02:33 AM
As up your ass as ever arent u Fee?
Everyone elses posts are moronic etc.
Yeah, their lives are so hard, boo hoo hoo.

Whatever the hell that means. I never said everyone else's posts are moronic, in fact I believe that may be the first time I have used that word here in a very long time, if ever. I've never even said it about any of your previous posts.

Once again you demonstrate that you have no clue what it is like to be a lower level ATP player. I am willing to 'bet the farm' it is a life that you would quit after one month of Satellite events, never mind 42 weeks a year. If you have so little respect for the players on tour, please find another sport, perhaps one with fewer whiners. kthanks.

drf716
10-20-2005, 03:31 AM
the answer to their problem is easy,
they should just copy marat safin
and take a nice long vacation
without a care in the world.

Action Jackson
10-20-2005, 04:03 AM
And how many of the better ranked players do take the proper time off? It's a players own fault if they choose to play a ridiculous schedule when they don't have too. Did Nadal have to play in Sweden and Germany after Wimbledon? If he had no plans to play any hard court events other than Montreal, Cincy and USO, why not take time off to rest and properly prepare for USO?

You use one player in Nadal, when there is Hewitt, Federer, Agassi, Nalbandian and Roddick these guys don't overplay or haven't overplayed this season at all. Well Nadal did committ to these events didn't he, and played them? It wasn't tiredness that caused him to lose at the US Open.

Billy Moonshine
10-20-2005, 07:20 AM
Do you even know what you are talking about :rolleyes: you actually sound like you believe your tripe :lol:

How can I sound like anything on an internet forum?

Of course I believe it, even if u do think its tripe. Plus, I notice that u have no constructive criticism of my post, for example, why you disagree, instead all you have is abuse.
It says a lot about you.

Billy Moonshine
10-20-2005, 07:28 AM
Whatever the hell that means. I never said everyone else's posts are moronic, in fact I believe that may be the first time I have used that word here in a very long time, if ever. I've never even said it about any of your previous posts.

Once again you demonstrate that you have no clue what it is like to be a lower level ATP player. I am willing to 'bet the farm' it is a life that you would quit after one month of Satellite events, never mind 42 weeks a year. If you have so little respect for the players on tour, please find another sport, perhaps one with fewer whiners. kthanks.

Fee, you have been condescending to me and other posters in the past, maybe your selective memory cant recall these times.

I dont have a clue what its like to be a lower level player. Really? Thats probably because Im Not!!! My criticism of Jeff is due to his `poor me` attitude. If he sucks at his job so much that its a struggle, i m no obliged to sympathise. Id say to him, `well get a new job then!!!`
And your right, if I was lame at my pro tennis career i would go and find something else to do.
And dont tell me what sports to follow u patronising pompous ass!!!! Just cos I express my opinion and u dont like it doesnt mean I cant enjoy tennis!!!!

oneandonlyhsn
10-20-2005, 07:33 AM
How can I sound like anything on an internet forum?

Of course I believe it, even if u do think its tripe. Plus, I notice that u have no constructive criticism of my post, for example, why you disagree, instead all you have is abuse.
It says a lot about you.

Someone needs to get off their high horse, and you are not worthy of my time thats why. All you do is bad rep people when they disagree with you, wonder what that says about you. I'm sure you will enlighten me on that matter

Billy Moonshine
10-20-2005, 11:44 AM
Someone needs to get off their high horse, and you are not worthy of my time thats why. All you do is bad rep people when they disagree with you, wonder what that says about you. I'm sure you will enlighten me on that matter

It says the truth about me: That I'm an idiot!!!