Doping : It was Mariano Puerta [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Doping : It was Mariano Puerta

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LilyRoseAva
10-05-2005, 05:05 AM
edit

C3PO
10-05-2005, 05:19 AM
Yep, I just woke up and saw the headlines of "L'equipe" website today ... http://www.lequipe.fr/

http://www.lequipe.fr/vp/imgopt.php?IMAGE=http://www.lequipe.fr/Quotidien/une/une05102005_hd.jpg&QUALITE=60&WIDTH=290

What a shock :eek:

Scotso
10-05-2005, 05:20 AM
So what's gonna happen to him? I can't read French :shrug:

Daniel
10-05-2005, 05:21 AM
translation please

Fergie
10-05-2005, 05:22 AM
Can't be true :sad:

Please someone translate the article ...

Daniel
10-05-2005, 05:22 AM
NEWS: Myskina quits Russia Fed Cup team

The unseeded Puerta had already created the surprise of getting all the way to the French Open final, where he was finally beaten 6-7 (6-8) 6-3 6-1 7-5 by Nadal, but a positive test following that match risks ending his career.

Puerta, 27, has already been banned for nine months following a positive test in October 2003 and should the latest test prove conclusive, then he will become the first ATP player to be handed a life ban.

The report confirms that the A and B sample has recorded positive result for the major stimulant etilefrine, a stimulant normally used for cases of hypertension and is regarded as a product worth a two-year man in a primary case.

Puerta, who has enjoyed a meteoric rise from a world ranking of 400 in 2004 to 9 in 2005, could become the fifth Argentine player to fail a dope test after Juan Ignacio Chela (2000), Guillermo Coria (2001), Martin Rodriguez (2003) and Guillermo Canas (2005).

The player, who is currently competing at the Japan Open in Tokyo, is reported to have told his staff that he took medication for a bout of flu at Roland Garros.

El Legenda
10-05-2005, 05:23 AM
flu my ass

Lee
10-05-2005, 05:25 AM
And the source of "L'equipe" is?

Leo
10-05-2005, 05:29 AM
Oh, here we go again. I was really hoping it wouldn't be a male, especially not an Argentinian male, again.

We'll see how Mariano is able to defend himself. If he does get the life ban, what a shameful piece of history he will attain.

Once again, if he was using the stimulant, how sad for Nikolay and all others who fell to him at RG. :(

Chloe le Bopper
10-05-2005, 05:33 AM
He either has the worst luck ever, or, well. You know.

LLeytonRules
10-05-2005, 05:37 AM
a black eye for tennis, considering Mr Puerta was a runner up, he should give back that runner-up trophy, loser!

rue
10-05-2005, 05:45 AM
That sounds bad, if he is found guilty he would face a life ban. It is a shame for him though.

El Legenda
10-05-2005, 05:48 AM
if found guilty, all the money he has made since RG, should be split up evenly to players that he has beaten from that point-present, or donate to charity :lol:

LLeytonRules
10-05-2005, 05:50 AM
Its a shame but tough luck, they should give stiff penalties so players wont even think twice!

NyGeL
10-05-2005, 05:51 AM
it's too early to start insulting and blaming...

you shouldn't belive so easily everything you read.

Here in Argentina there is no news about that...

Action Jackson
10-05-2005, 05:52 AM
if found guilty, all the money he has made since RG, should be split up evenly to players that he has beaten from that point-present, or donate to charity :lol:

Not a bad solution, but interesting that L'Equipe decided to leak this now. Interesting that the drug he allegedly was using is used to treat guys for low flow priapism a medical disorder where the persistent erection of the schlong in the absence of sexual interest.

I don't think fonsie would need this stuff.

LLeytonRules
10-05-2005, 05:54 AM
U think the papers would print something out like that without knowing the facts first :rolleyes: , u ever heard of defamation of character, its only a matter of hours before Puerta accepts his punishment.

JuanRodriguez
10-05-2005, 05:54 AM
Now I understand the accusations Kristof Vliegen made this year at Roland Garros when he played Marino Puerta in the second round.

Before the match:
'I couldn't believe that this Puerta guy is ranked in the top-50 of the world. Once I played him and it was a very easy win for me.' (Vliegen refers to a a match in Palermo 2004 where he beat Puerta 6-1, 6-2)

The match:
Puerta d. Vliegen 6-3, 7-5, 6-2

After the match:
'After three minutes I already knew that it wouldn't be easy. He could go on letting me run from the left to the right for five more hours. He deserved to win. Unfortunately I could not recuperate, like so many players these days can't.'

'This Puerta guy is fysically an animal. And yeah... whatever he has taken or not in the past... I'm not saying Puerta is taking doping now, it doesn't even interest me. By the way there's someone following me, he is sitting left in the front.'

Apparentely someone from the anti-doping agency. Vliegen: 'It is my third doping test this year. The year before I have played 13 ATP-tournaments and I have been tested every single time. I think it doesn't have to be this way. I know a player, ranked top-20, who's been tested only once. Someone who has loads more energy than I have.' An Argentine or a Spaniard? 'No answer.'

Duncan
10-05-2005, 05:59 AM
what an idiot if this is all true :rolleyes:

Carlita
10-05-2005, 06:02 AM
If he DID take things because of flu, he has been very careless! If I had been banned before, I would make sure that I had something to cover my ass when taking anything to get rid of flu. Even if I had to have 20,000 notes of 20,000 doctors! But it wouldn't happen to me again!

anyhow, this is bad......:sad:

mickymouse
10-05-2005, 06:05 AM
Why on earth does it take so long for the results of the doping test to be out?
Also, if he's already been banned for a few months for taking banned substances, I really can't imagine him being so stupid as to try it again so soon.

LLeytonRules
10-05-2005, 06:09 AM
Looking back at the french, Puerta played alot of sets and had alot of energy going into those sets, he even took a set from Nadal.

Truc
10-05-2005, 06:18 AM
And the source of "L'equipe" is?
They don't tell their source.
The article:

L’impardonnable récidive
Mariano Puerta, déjà condamné pour dopage en 2003, risque la suspension à vie suite à un contrôle positif après sa finale à Roland-Garros

Alors que nous annoncions, dans nos éditions du vendredi 30 septembre, qu’au moins un joueur avait été contrôlé positif pendant Roland-Garros, nous sommes aujourd’hui en mesure d’affirmer qu’il s’agissait du finaliste Mariano Puerta. Déjà sanctionné en 2003 pour usage d’anabolisants, l’Argentin a utilisé cette fois un stimulant, révélé dans ses urines au soir de sa finale contre Nadal.

DEUX ANS APRÈS avoir purgé une suspension de neuf mois pour dopage, Mariano Puerta risque fort de finir, non plus au purgatoire, mais en enfer. L’Argentin, battu en finale du dernier tournoi de Roland-Garros par Rafael Nadal (voir par ailleurs), a en effet subi un contrôle positif au soir de sa défaite à Paris, le 5 juin dernier. L’expertise et la contre-expertise, réalisées au laboratoire de Châtenay-Malabry, ont révélé la présence, dans les urines de l’Argentin, d’étiléfrine, un stimulant majeur dont la prise est passible d’une suspension de deux ans. Mais, à la différence de son compatriote Guillermo Cañas, quart-finaliste à Roland-Garros et privé de compétition jusqu’au 9 août 2007 suite à un contrôle positif datant du mois de février 2005, à Acapulco, Mariano Puerta risque la suspension à vie pour cause de récidive.
Sa première infraction remonte au mois de janvier 2003, lors du tournoi de Viña del Mar, au Chili. L’échantillon d’urine prélevé à l’époque contenait des traces de clenbuterol, un stéroïde anabolisant réservé en France aux traitements vétérinaires contre l’asthme, mais utilisé pour les humains dans d’autres pays du monde. Lors de son arrivée au tournoi, Puerta n’avait pas présenté de prescription médicale préalable, mais il avait plaidé devant le jury en évoquant une grave crise d’asthme dont il aurait souffert dans l’attente du résultat de l’opération à cœur ouvert de sa nièce. Un médecin, le docteur Viola, avait assuré lui avoir prescrit le médicament. L’Argentin risquait deux ans d’interdiction de compétition mais les juges ne lui avaient finalement infligé que neuf mois, du 1er octobre 2003 au 1er juillet 2004, au terme d’un procès qui avait coûté à Puerta la bagatelle de 70 000 dollars.

Sol, son épouse : « Vous nous l’apprenez »
Dans le cas présent, et puisque la FIT, l’ATP et la WTA ont adopté le Code mondial antidopage, le barème de sanctions édicté par l’AMA porte à deux ans la suspension théorique. S’agissant d’une récidive, la première dans l’histoire du tennis, elle pourrait l’être à vie sauf si l’instruction du cas Puerta faisait état de circonstances exceptionnelles pouvant pondérer la sanction. Le nom de Puerta s’ajoute à une liste où figurent, outre Cañas, trois autres Argentins : Juan Ignacio Chela, suspendu en 2000 et à l’époque entraîné par Ruben Puerta, le père de Mariano, Guillermo Coria (2001) et un spécialiste du double, Martin Rodriguez (2003).
Actuellement à Tokyo, où il dispute l’Open du Japon, dont il est tête de série no 1, l’actuel numéro 10 mondial aurait reconnu, auprès de son entourage proche, avoir pris un médicament pour soigner une grippe pendant Roland-Garros. Pourtant, Sol, son épouse, jointe au téléphone dans sa chambre d’hôtel, la semaine dernière à Hô Chi Minh-Ville, se disait surprise en apprenant la nouvelle : « Non, Mariano n’est pas dans la chambre actuellement, il dîne. Un cas de dopage à Roland-Garros ? Vous nous l’apprenez, on n’est au courant de rien… » Son agent, Giorgio Brasero, ancien manager de Gaston Gaudio et qui s’occupe depuis peu de Paul-Henri Mathieu, n’a pas souhaité s’exprimer sur le sujet, préférant s’en remettre à ses avocats. Installé en région parisienne, où il dirige le tennis club de la Châtaigneraie à Rueil-Malmaison, M. Brasero avait cependant déclaré, il y a huit jours, lorsque nous l’avions informé des soupçons qui pesaient sur son joueur : « C’est une bombe que vous m’annoncez là ! Vous êtes la première personne à m’en parler. Je ne pense pas que cette histoire soit vraie. »
Depuis sa finale à Roland-Garros, Puerta a disputé dix tournois – dont l’actuel Open du Japon – et une demi-finale de Coupe Davis, perdue contre la Slovaquie le 25 septembre. Durant cette période, celui qui avait plongé dans les bas fonds de la hiérarchie (400e début 2004) a atteint en août dernier la 9e place mondiale, son meilleur classement. Une ascension aussi vertigineuse que la chute qui l’attend.
ROMAIN LEFEBVRE,
DAMIEN RESSIOT
et A. Ju. (à Buenos Aires)

Hantuchov
10-05-2005, 06:19 AM
OMG, how stupid he is to be caught once again! :smash: :smash: :smash:

Once is not enough to learn :rolleyes: :o

El Legenda
10-05-2005, 06:24 AM
So L'equipe is the newspaper that also accused Lance Armstrong of returning a positive drug test...?? :rolleyes: I need a better source before I believe this.

is there proof that they were wrong about it?

vincayou
10-05-2005, 06:25 AM
So L'equipe is the newspaper that also accused Lance Armstrong of returning a positive drug test...?? :rolleyes: I need a better source before I believe this.

Yes, Lance is so clean. :rolleyes:

LLeytonRules
10-05-2005, 06:27 AM
Lance Armstrong is a cheat, he plays so innocent.

AgassiFan
10-05-2005, 06:28 AM
Is 'Puerta' a french media euphemism for 'Agassi'? Didn't Magnus Norman run an expose on Dre with hard proof and concrete evide a few weeks back? And didn't the ATP try to cover it up to save its American Golden Calf, only to have a Watergatesque clusterfuck on their hands courtesy of the Noble & Incorruptable Europeans?

Surely, the MTF think-tank has all the answers...

Truc
10-05-2005, 06:29 AM
I know, it's very irritating, they don't give any source in the article. They just say his sample was tested again 2 weeks ago and is positive.
I can't translate the article, but they say now he was tested after the final, not after the 3rd round.
Puerta said to people round about him that he was taking a medication during the FO because of a flu. But when the journalists of "L'Équipe" called him in Ho Chi Minh-Ville to question him about the doping case, they spoke to his wife because he wasn't there and she said they didn't knew anything. His agent in Paris also seemed really surprised when they told him what they knew last week and he said he never heard of this.

Action Jackson
10-05-2005, 06:29 AM
Is 'Puerta' a french euphemism for 'Agassi'? Didn't Magnus Norman run an expose on Dre with hard proof and concrete evide? Didn't the ATP try to cover it up to save its American Golden Calf, only to have a Watergatesque clusterfuck on their hands courtesy of the Noble & Incorruptable Europeans?

Surely, the MTF think-tank must know...

Almost funny this time.

Action Jackson
10-05-2005, 06:31 AM
If Puerta was taking a cold/flu medication then he should have the presciption or if he doesn't have that, then the tablets would have his name on the packet and told to take these tablets 2 times a day or something like this.

Journalists don't have to reveal their sources, whether or not people like the story. I doubt whether the whole story is out yet.

vincayou
10-05-2005, 06:32 AM
This isn't about Lance :rolleyes: It's about L'equipe...

Contrary to what Lance claims (and that you seemed to have believed), L'Equipe is not a tabloid. They have never accused someone of doping without serious evidence.

Action Jackson
10-05-2005, 06:33 AM
This isn't about Lance :rolleyes: It's about L'equipe...

Actually L'Equipe was the magazine that went over Verenque a French cyclist, also that whole tour de doping when it was on a few years ago and as Seinfeld said, usually that individual who always sues when comments like the one L'Equipe made against him, didn't bother with them this time.

AgassiFan
10-05-2005, 06:33 AM
Almost funny this time.

Awwwww....

Lindsayfan
10-05-2005, 06:34 AM
So L'equipe is the newspaper that also accused Lance Armstrong of returning a positive drug test...?? :rolleyes: I need a better source before I believe this.


L'equipe has always hated Lance, same thing for the most of French, i dont know why, so maybe they were biased in that case. But i dont think that they have something vs Puerta so it may be true this time...anyway it doesnt surprise me, i never believed in him.

C3PO
10-05-2005, 06:51 AM
This isn't about Lance :rolleyes: It's about L'equipe...
L'equipe is a serious newspaper, not a tabloid.... Lance Armstrong in the US tries to discredit them but here in France we have no doubt.. As says by someone here, they were also the first to reveal that Virenque (Who was one of the MOST POPULAR French sportsman at this time) was a cheater.. So it's not something Anti-American as Lance Armstrong is saying to the US Media... L'Equipe has always tries to tell the truth wether it's a French sportman, or American, or whatever...
Anyway officials will soon tell that Puerta was dopped, but since L'equipe has already revealed the name, I'm sure at 100% it's true ... I'm sorry for Puerta really, I can't understand how it is possible to make such a "mistake" twice.

:wavey:

MariaV
10-05-2005, 06:56 AM
OMG. :eek: :eek: That's really sad if it's true, I'm so sorry for Mariano. :sad:

Castafiore
10-05-2005, 07:00 AM
L'equipe has always hated Lance, same thing for the most of French
How do you know this?

It's :bs: but Lance knows that it's a very good strategy to divert the attention by claiming that the French hate him. I never quite understood why the anti-French jokes are so popular on British and on American tv.
The highlight of this was during the Iraq war with the silly Freedom fries instead of the French fries (those fries aren't French to begin with).

But I digress...


I hate this...another Argentine... :sad: ...I love that RG final.
People were talking about Puerta's tenacity during RG but many believed that he wouldn't be foolish enough to risk a doping ban so soon after his first one.

Noelle
10-05-2005, 07:01 AM
No English version yet, so we have to make do with my poor Babelfishing.

http://fr.sports.yahoo.com/05102005/...nd-garros.html
Tennis: Mariano Puerta tested positive at Roland Garros
Oct. 05, 07h43

PARIS (Reuters) - The Argentinian Mariano Puerta has tested positive in June at Roland-Garros after his defeat in the final against the Spaniard Rafael Nadal and risks the suspension for recidivism, revealed the sporting daily newspaper L'Equipe on Wednesday.

According to the French newspaper, which had announced on September 30 that a player had a positive control without devulging his identity, "The expertise and the counter-evaluation of results at the laboratory of Chatenay-Malabry has revealed the presence in the urine of the Argentinian of etilefrine."

The detection of this stimulant, normally utilized against hypotension, is liable to a two year old suspension, which is the normal measure. But, in the case of Puerta, this positive could be synonymous with banning for life.

Indeed, the finalist of the French Open had been suspended nine months between October 2003 and July 2004 after testing positive for clenbuterol, an anabolic steroid, at the time of the tournament of Vina del Mar, in Chile.

NEW BLACK VEIL ON ARGENTINIAN TENNIS

Puerta, 27 years and ranked 10th in the ATP, last August reached the 9th rank in the world, his best classification, after falling down to 400th after his suspension.

Does this allegation throw a new black veil on Argentinian tennis, already ??? by several cases of doping?

In addition to the first case Puerta, Juan Ignacio Chela, suspended three months in 2000, Guillermo Coria, suspended seven months in 2001 and Guillermo Canas, suspended two years pending the judgment of the sport's arbitration court, have already ???

It is necessary to add to this list Argentinian Mariano Rodriguez, who had lost in 2002 the benefit of his points and prize money gained at the tournament of Bale he had positive test.

From being ranked 37th in the world, Puerta had in June an exceptional tournament at Roland Garros, in particular beating his compatriot Canas in the quarterfinal then the Russian Nikolay Davydenko in the semifinal before being defeataed in four sets with the Spanish wonder Rafael Nadal.

Puerta is currently in Japan for a tournament in Tokyo, where he is seeded #1.

vincayou
10-05-2005, 07:01 AM
Maybe Puerta has a good explanation for this, but the fact is that they have found a forbidden product in his body. It's not over yet, but it doesn't smell good for Mariano.

*Ljubica*
10-05-2005, 07:03 AM
I am so sad about this - and far too sad to read all the nasty, gloating posts that will obvously be here from the Argentine bashers. If it is true - then Mariano deserves his punishment - more than that - I will not say.

MariaV
10-05-2005, 07:06 AM
I simply cannot believe he would be stupid enough to take something w/o all the necessary prescriptions etc.

Frederick16
10-05-2005, 07:13 AM
please ban him for life! maybe then a doctor can do something against his chronical flu!! mariano should know it is not healthy for him to sport on a high level when you are ill all the time. so it is better for him to quit and be better. 2 years ago he had to take that 'medicine' and now again. the atp should do something for him!! bla bla

puerta is an ass! and his coach is an loser to agree with his dope taking!

Action Jackson
10-05-2005, 07:16 AM
please ban him for life! maybe then a doctor can do something against his chronical flu!! mariano should know it is not healthy for him to sport on a high level when you are ill all the time. so it is better for him to quit and be better. 2 years ago he had to take that 'medicine' and now again. the atp should do something for him!! bla bla

puerta is an ass! and his coach is an loser to agree with his dope taking!

Try reading the original case about the asthma ban first. He was stupid and didn't sign the form, exactly the same thing as Bogmolov Jr did, but that escapes you and yes he should have got banned the first time.

Horatio Caine
10-05-2005, 07:16 AM
I am deeply saddened by this. I, like many, became a fan of Puerta with the brave way in which he fought back up the rankings this year...and I particularly enjoyed his French Open run. Seeing someone battle back from so many setbacks in life and matches has been inspiring...if this is true then it leaves a rather nasty taste in my mouth.

Lindsayfan
10-05-2005, 07:17 AM
How do you know this?

It's :bs: but Lance knows that it's a very good strategy to divert the attention by claiming that the French hate him. I never quite understood why the anti-French jokes are so popular on British and on American tv.
The highlight of this was during the Iraq war with the silly Freedom fries instead of the French fries (those fries aren't French to begin with).

i am neither american nor pro-america. i just notice that l'equipe has claimed lance positive even before the proof.

Horatio Caine
10-05-2005, 07:18 AM
...well all I can say is that it hasn't reached BBC Sport yet...

Action Jackson
10-05-2005, 07:21 AM
http://www.eurosport.com/home/pages/v4/l0/s57/e7332/sport_lng0_spo57_evt7332_sto773858.shtml

Puerta positive at Roland Garros

Argentine Mariano Puerta risks becoming the first ATP player to receive a life ban after testing positive for the stimulant etilefrine after July's French Open final defeat to Spain's Rafael Nadal. Puerta was banned for nine month in 2003 after testing positive for the steroid clenbuterol.

The unseeded Puerta had already created the surprise of getting all the way to the French Open final, where he was finally beaten 6-7 (6-8) 6-3 6-1 7-5 by Nadal, but a positive test following that match risks ending his career.

Puerta, 27, has already been banned for nine months following a positive test in October 2003 and should the latest test prove conclusive, then he will become the first ATP player to be handed a life ban.

The report confirms that the A and B sample has recorded positive result for the major stimulant etilefrine, a stimulant normally used for cases of hypertension and is regarded as a product worth a two-year man in a primary case.

Puerta, who has enjoyed a meteoric rise from a world ranking of 400 in 2004 to 9 in 2005, could become the fifth Argentine player to fail a dope test after Juan Ignacio Chela (2000), Guillermo Coria (2001), Martin Rodriguez (2003) and Guillermo Canas (2005).

The player, who is currently competing at the Japan Open in Tokyo, is reported to have told his staff that he took medication for a bout of flu at Roland Garros.

tennisinparis
10-05-2005, 07:21 AM
after living in paris for a long while, i have come to realize how honest the french papers are, and what great journalistic abilities they have. (okay, i was being totally sarcastic about those sentiments). i wouldn't trust french papers for anything. don't get me wrong, the country is an amazing place, the people are amazing people, and my experiences in france have been far beyond what i could ever ask for, but at the same time, i can separate reality and fiction. everyone will always wonder or question whether Armstrong dopped, and in my opinion I don't care. I find it a hilarious idea, and in the end, no matter what anyone from any country says, they won't take his 7 titles away.


L'equipe is a serious newspaper, not a tabloid.... Lance Armstrong in the US tries to discredit them but here in France we have no doubt.. As says by someone here, they were also the first to reveal that Virenque (Who was one of the MOST POPULAR French sportsman at this time) was a cheater.. So it's not something Anti-American as Lance Armstrong is saying to the US Media... L'Equipe has always tries to tell the truth wether it's a French sportman, or American, or whatever...
Anyway officials will soon tell that Puerta was dopped, but since L'equipe has already revealed the name, I'm sure at 100% it's true ... I'm sorry for Puerta really, I can't understand how it is possible to make such a "mistake" twice.

:wavey:

Action Jackson
10-05-2005, 07:23 AM
after living in paris for a long while, i have come to realize how honest the french papers are, and what great journalistic abilities they have. (okay, i was being totally sarcastic about those sentiments). i wouldn't trust french papers for anything. don't get me wrong, the country is an amazing place, the people are amazing people, and my experiences in france have been far beyond what i could ever ask for, but at the same time, i can separate reality and fiction. everyone will always wonder or question whether Armstrong dopped, and in my opinion I don't care. I find it a hilarious idea, and in the end, no matter what anyone from any country says, they won't take his 7 titles away.

There is a non-tennis thread for Lance Armstrong and his doping allegations.

s.m.
10-05-2005, 07:30 AM
if it´s puerta, why is he still playing tokyo?

Action Jackson
10-05-2005, 07:32 AM
if it´s puerta, why is he still playing tokyo?

Independent panel haven't examined all the details of the case of yet.

Horatio Caine
10-05-2005, 07:35 AM
if it´s puerta, why is he still playing tokyo?

Not sure about the rules, but when Rusedski was tested positive early 2004 he continued to play for a couple of weeks despite getting rough treatment from his peers.

Puerta may be getting in the last few matches of his life here...he probably doesn't want to waste time.

s.m.
10-05-2005, 07:37 AM
thanks

Horatio Caine
10-05-2005, 07:38 AM
I don't mean any offence here, but why is it nearly always Argentine tennis players that risk their careers? Or if it isn't just them, why is it nearly always Argentine tennis players that make the doping headlines instead of other nationalities?

Sommarsverige
10-05-2005, 07:40 AM
I am very, very sad about all this and can´t believe it is true :sad:

Action Jackson
10-05-2005, 07:41 AM
I don't mean any offence here, but why is it nearly always Argentine tennis players that risk their careers? Or if it isn't just them, why is it nearly always Argentine tennis players that make the doping headlines instead of other nationalities?

Others are smarter about not getting caught. No, I am not making a judgement either way whether doping is right or not.

Do you really want me to answer this question, all I will say is can you comprehend the understanding of the hierachal structure?

Well Czech players have been caught and others as well, considering the Argentine tennis federation doesn't support its players, think about how they would it be a state doping program?

Deea
10-05-2005, 07:47 AM
Oooau...this is unbelivable...I never expected him to be the one to be found guilty of doping in RG! After what happened to him in the past...this is an unbelivable stupid mistake...

claudine140
10-05-2005, 08:35 AM
on the news in belhium they said. Puerta can be punished for the rest of his carreer. Because it is not the first time he is guilty on taking dope

Noelle
10-05-2005, 08:46 AM
Yup. First offense under the new WADA-type policy is equivalent to a two-year ban, unless they find you weren't taking the drug for enhancement. That's why Alex Bogomolov, Jr. is suspended for only 1 1/2 months for taking his asthma medication without the Therapeutic Use Exemption.

Second strike, you're out. Lifetime ban. :sad:

Galaxystorm
10-05-2005, 09:03 AM
During Buenos Aires tournament Guillermo Vilas gave an advice to Puerta : " Now, do not fuck it up again " . Vilas meant that after his first doping case Puerta had got to reach again his former level, he was among the top players again and he hadn't to miss this second chance.

It seems Puerta didn't listen Vilas's advice ...

Truc
10-05-2005, 09:04 AM
I don't mean any offence here, but why is it nearly always Argentine tennis players that risk their careers? Or if it isn't just them, why is it nearly always Argentine tennis players that make the doping headlines instead of other nationalities?
There are some other interesting articles about this in "L'Équipe" today:

« Ça devient grave »
CARLOS D’ANGELO, médecin coordinateur du programme de prévention et de contrôle antidopage en Argentine, tire la sonnette d’alarme.
BUENOS AIRES – de notre correspondant
« ÊTES-VOUS ÉTONNÉ par les cas de dopage des joueurs argentins ?
– Que cela arrive dans le tennis ne m’étonne pas tant que ça. Il faut contextualiser le problème. Le tennisman est un nomade. Toutes les semaines, il prend l’avion, subit des décalages horaires, des changements climatiques et dort dans une chambre d’hôtel différente. Le tennis est d’ailleurs le sport où il y a le plus de voyages. Tout cela complique la vie du joueur et crée des angoisses. La consommation de médicaments aide à affronter cette pression. Et peut-être qu’il n’y a pas assez de suivi médical en Argentine, en tout cas dans le tennis.
– Expliquez-vous…
– En Argentine, le tennis est le sport qui subit le moins de contrôles antidopage. L’an dernier, il y a eu une vingtaine de contrôles sur des tennismen, et encore parce que nous en avons effectués pendant la Coupe Davis. Dans le football, par exemple, nous avons contrôlé plus de deux mille joueurs. L’Association argentine de tennis doit prendre ses responsabilités. Je n’ai pratiquement aucun contact avec elle. Et ce n’est pas l’État qui peut l’obliger à faire des contrôles. Même l’ATP et la FIT ne nous ont jamais rien demandé. C’est dommage, car on se doit d’aider les joueurs contrôlés positifs et ne pas les marginaliser.
– Avez-vous déjà eu des contacts avec les joueurs ?
– Lorsque Juan Ignacio Chela a été contrôlé positif, il est souvent venu nous voir, car la FIT, pendant la suspension, nous avait demandé de le contrôler régulièrement. Je pense qu’il a appris beaucoup de choses à notre contact.Unautre joueur, dont je tairais le nom, est également venu nous rendre visite un matin avec un sac de produits, compléments alimentaires et médicaments, que lui avait donnés un médecin espagnol. Nous lui avons conseillé de ne pas consommer ces produits. On ne savait pas d’où ils venaient. Hormis ces cas précis, nous n’avons que très peu de contacts avec les joueurs. Et pourtant il y a problème et ça devient grave. Il faut absolument que l’on travaille avec les jeunes pour éloigner le dopage du monde du tennis. Car, au final, c’est toujours le joueur qui sera sanctionné. C’est lui le responsable des produits que l’on peut trouver dans son organisme. » – A. Ju.

Le démon du tennis argentin
Le cas de Puerta allonge la liste déjà importante d’Argentins en infraction. Le mal est chronique.
BUENOS AIRES – de notre correspondant
LE COMBAT FAIT RAGE entre les anges et les démons du tennis argentin. D’un côté, les dollars et les titres récoltés s’amoncellent, et le prestige sportif ne cesse de croître ; quatre joueurs (Coria, Nalbandian, Puerta et Gaudio) occupent d’ailleurs les 8e, 9e, 10e et 11e rangs mondiaux, un joli tir groupé qui permet à l’Argentine d’être le pays comptant le plus de joueurs dans le top 10. C’est historique.
De l’autre, les accusations et les suspensions pour dopage s’empilent, jetant le discrédit sur les performances des membres les plus éminents de la légion ; six cas positifs (Chela, Coria, Rodriguez, Puerta, Cañas et de nouveau Puerta) en un peu moins de cinq ans. C’est historique aussi. Ces cas, bien particuliers et indépendants les uns des autres, ne doivent pourtant pas faire passer l’Argentine pour une nouvelle Allemagne de l’Est. Ici, le dopage n’est pas une affaire d’État. Les Chela, Coria, Cañas et autres Puerta n’ont pas été les victimes d’un système chapeauté par un docteur Mabuse. En regardant de plus près ces cas, tous ont un dénominateur commun : la négligence d’un joueur pas forcément éduqué en matière de produits interdits. « Nous sommes des Latins, analyse Fernando Cao, préparateur physique de Guillermo Cañas. Nous avons donc une personnalité différente des Européens ou des Américains. Il nous arrive de prendre les règles à la légère. On fait donc moins attention que d’autres. Mais ce n’est pas une excuse, bien au contraire. On doit être plus responsables et ne pas laisser de place au hasard. Sur le cas de Guillermo (Cañas), nous, son entourage, avons clairement fait une faute. »
Or, depuis les Jeux d’Athènes 2004 et la validation du Code mondial antidopage, il existe un principe juridique incontournable : « Tous les athlètes positifs sont responsables des produits retrouvés dans leurs urines ; par conséquent, toute négligence est coupable et punissable. »
« L’État doit nous aider »
Les joueurs argentins sont pourtant, à certains égards, des modèles de professionnalisme. Ils sont reconnus pour ne se déplacer qu’entourés d’une batterie de spécialistes. Les entraîneurs, les préparateurs physiques, les physiothérapeutes ou les psychologues sont même réputés pour leur savoir-faire sur le circuit. Chaque joueur a bien évidemment un médecin personnel, mais ce dernier ne l’accompagne pas aux quatre coins dumonde. « Il manque à nos médecins cette parfaite connaissance du monde de la petite balle jaune. Si j’étais joueur, la première chose que je ferais serait d’engager un spécialiste que je pourrais contacter vingt-quatre heures sur vingt-quatre », remarque Ricardo Rivera, ex-entraîneur de Guillermo Vilas, aujourd’hui capitaine de l’équipe argentine de Fed Cup. Les légionnaires ne seraient donc pas des adeptes de la surmédicalisation ? Une chose est sûre : dans sa formation, le joueur argentin n’a pas forcément été préparé aux contraintes médicales de son sport. Fernando Segal est l’ex- DTN du tennis argentin (1996-2001), responsable du programme de formation dont ont profité les Coria, Nalbandian ou Acasuso. Il est le premier à avoir pointé le problème. « Lorsque je suis arrivé à la Fédération, j’ai monté un programme de formation incluant un département médical. Pour éduquer les jeunes sur la santé générale, la nutrition, la manière de traiter les blessures, et puis bien sûr... le dopage. Mais on travaillait avec les moyens du bord. Techniquement, on fait partie d’un des meilleurs pays de formation au monde. Mais, scientifiquement, nous sommes des membres du tiers-monde. Nous n’avions pas de budget pour nous occuper de ces problèmes-là. Aujourd’hui, il devient urgent qu’on investisse dans les sciences appliquéesau tennis. Seule l’Association argentine de tennis (AAT) peut le faire. Qu’est-ce qu’elle attend ? »
Du côté de l’AAT, secouée à l’image du pays en décembre 2001 par une crise économique sans précédent, le constat est identique, mais un problème majeur les empêche d’agir : l’argent. Comme l’explique Arturo Grimaldi, vice-président de l’AAT : « Notre budget est ridicule. On prévoit 300 000 dollars à la formation par an dont 40 000 à la partie médicale. Le dopage est un problème sérieux dans notre sport. C’est une grande préoccupation. Mais l’État doit nous aider désormais. Parce qu’une vraie politique contre le dopage coûte beaucoup d’argent. Et nous n’en avons pas suffisamment. »
Un manque dont ne souffrent pas les joueurs argentins, puisque la plupart d’entre eux sont multimillionnaires. Sur les bords du Rio de la Plata, on ne comprend donc pas toujours pourquoi ils n’investissent pas une partie de leurs gains dans ce domaine. Comme c’est le cas pour David Nalbandian, par exemple, qui dépense chaque année une fortune pour faire analyser les produits (compléments alimentaires, médicaments) qu’il consomme. En agissant de la sorte, « El Gringo » réduit au maximum les risques de contrôle positif.
La paranoïa gagne
Le petit monde du tennis argentin est persuadé que les joueurs ne sont pas à blâmer, contrairement à certaines personnes malveillantes ou inconscientes, qui gravitent dans leur entourage direct. Dans le cas de Juan Ignacio Chela, c’est son médecin d’alors qui lui avait donné un produit contenant des substances dopantes. Positif à un diurétique, Guillermo Cañas, lui, travaille avec un médecin qui fait couler beaucoup d’encre (un médecin-pharmacien qui élabore ses propres produits, dont le contenu n’est connu que de lui-même). Enfin, dans la liste des entourages suspects, Mariano Puerta était à Roland- Garros accompagné de Dario Lecman. Cet ancien haltérophile, préparateur physique bien connu en Argentine, a été le protagoniste d’une étrange histoire lors des Jeux d’Athènes, auxquels auxquels il participait en tant qu’athlète. Lorsqu’un officiel lui avait remis, à quarante-huit heures de la compétition, une convocation pour un contrôle antidopage, Lecman était immédiatement reparti vers Buenos Aires. Pour éviter le contrôle ? Plus d’un Argentin le pense. Pourquoi les tennismen s’entourent-ils alors de personnes peu recommandables ? « Parce que le monde de la médecine du sport n’est pas si étendu que cela. Et parce que, et c’est bien triste, souvent ces médecins ou ces préparateurs physique ont eu des résultats avant. Les joueurs veulent s’entourer de ce qui se fait de mieux. Peu importe la réputation ! », confie cet homme proche du milieu du tennis qui préfère garder l’anonymat. Ces « négligences » ont le don de discréditer chaque jour un peu plus les résultats des joueurs argentins.
Comme le dit Guillermo Coria : « Aujourd’hui, nous, les Argentins, nous sommes tous suspectés. On ne tient pas compte de notre travail. On se doit de démontrer encore plus pour prouver qu’on est de grands joueurs…» Cela peut même virer à la paranoïa, puisque Coria ne consomme plus de suppléments nutritionnels. Lors des matches de Coupe Davis, certains s’étonnent même qu’il ne veuille plus boire de café, ni même une bouteille qu’il n’aurait pas lui même débouchée. Sa manière à lui d’éloigner les démons qui n’ont pas fini de rôder autour du tennis argentin.
ALEXANDRE JUILLARD

Damita
10-05-2005, 09:05 AM
L'equipe has always hated Lance, same thing for the most of French, i dont know why, so maybe they were biased in that case. But i dont think that they have something vs Puerta so it may be true this time...anyway it doesnt surprise me, i never believed in him.That's the most stupid post i've read in ages :bs:
Cycling is very very appreciated in France, and the Tour is something that a lot of ppl wouldn't miss (not me cuz cycling bores me to death actually). And Armstrong was admired for his consecutive victories, and for the fact that they all happened after he had his cancer.
And L'Equipe had nothing against him. They just discovered he had cheated, they revealed it (it might surprise you but that's what journalists do: they investigate, and when they have proof they reveal the story). He cheated, he cheated. End of discussion. He doesn't want to admit it... so what? Virenque before him denied every accusation, but the truth still was that he was doped.
They had nothing against Virenque, they had nothing against Armstrong. You probably never read any article from them so don't talk about what you don't know, please :rolleyes:


As for Puerta, they got the info from the lab which made the examinations. Puerta has been tested after the final (which is normal). The examination was positive. The lab made a cross-examination, which was positive also.
It's the second time he's caught for doping, so the risk is he might be banned for the rest of his life by the ATP.

sigmagirl91
10-05-2005, 09:15 AM
There are some other interesting articles about this in "L'Équipe" today:

« Ça devient grave »
CARLOS D’ANGELO, médecin coordinateur du programme de prévention et de contrôle antidopage en Argentine, tire la sonnette d’alarme.
BUENOS AIRES – de notre correspondant
« ÊTES-VOUS ÉTONNÉ par les cas de dopage des joueurs argentins ?
– Que cela arrive dans le tennis ne m’étonne pas tant que ça. Il faut contextualiser le problème. Le tennisman est un nomade. Toutes les semaines, il prend l’avion, subit des décalages horaires, des changements climatiques et dort dans une chambre d’hôtel différente. Le tennis est d’ailleurs le sport où il y a le plus de voyages. Tout cela complique la vie du joueur et crée des angoisses. La consommation de médicaments aide à affronter cette pression. Et peut-être qu’il n’y a pas assez de suivi médical en Argentine, en tout cas dans le tennis.
– Expliquez-vous…
– En Argentine, le tennis est le sport qui subit le moins de contrôles antidopage. L’an dernier, il y a eu une vingtaine de contrôles sur des tennismen, et encore parce que nous en avons effectués pendant la Coupe Davis. Dans le football, par exemple, nous avons contrôlé plus de deux mille joueurs. L’Association argentine de tennis doit prendre ses responsabilités. Je n’ai pratiquement aucun contact avec elle. Et ce n’est pas l’État qui peut l’obliger à faire des contrôles. Même l’ATP et la FIT ne nous ont jamais rien demandé. C’est dommage, car on se doit d’aider les joueurs contrôlés positifs et ne pas les marginaliser.
– Avez-vous déjà eu des contacts avec les joueurs ?
– Lorsque Juan Ignacio Chela a été contrôlé positif, il est souvent venu nous voir, car la FIT, pendant la suspension, nous avait demandé de le contrôler régulièrement. Je pense qu’il a appris beaucoup de choses à notre contact.Unautre joueur, dont je tairais le nom, est également venu nous rendre visite un matin avec un sac de produits, compléments alimentaires et médicaments, que lui avait donnés un médecin espagnol. Nous lui avons conseillé de ne pas consommer ces produits. On ne savait pas d’où ils venaient. Hormis ces cas précis, nous n’avons que très peu de contacts avec les joueurs. Et pourtant il y a problème et ça devient grave. Il faut absolument que l’on travaille avec les jeunes pour éloigner le dopage du monde du tennis. Car, au final, c’est toujours le joueur qui sera sanctionné. C’est lui le responsable des produits que l’on peut trouver dans son organisme. » – A. Ju.

Le démon du tennis argentin
Le cas de Puerta allonge la liste déjà importante d’Argentins en infraction. Le mal est chronique.
BUENOS AIRES – de notre correspondant
LE COMBAT FAIT RAGE entre les anges et les démons du tennis argentin.D’un côté, les dollars et les titres récoltés s’amoncellent, et le prestige sportifne cessede croître ; quatre joueurs (Coria, Nalbandian, Puerta et Gaudio) occupent d’ailleurs les 8e, 9e, 10e et 11e rangs mondiaux, un joli tir groupé qui permet à l’Argentine d’être le pays comptant le plus de joueurs dans le top 10. C’est historique.
De l’autre, les accusations et les suspensions pourdopages’empilent, jetant le discrédit sur les performances des membres les plus éminents de la légion ; six cas positifs (Chela, Coria, Rodriguez, Puerta, Cañas et de nouveau Puerta) en un peu moins de cinq ans. C’est historique aussi. Ces cas, bien particuliers et indépendants les uns des autres, ne doivent pourtant pas faire passer l’Argentine pour une nouvelle Allemagne de l’Est. Ici, le dopage n’est pas une affaire d’État. Les Chela, Coria, Cañas et autres Puerta n’ont pas été les victimes d’un système chapeauté par un docteur Mabuse. En regardant de plus près ces cas, tous ont un dénominateur commun : la négligence d’un joueur pas forcémentéduqué en matière de produits interdits. « Nous sommes des Latins, analyse Fernando Cao, préparateur physique de Guillermo Cañas. Nous avons donc une personnalité différente des Européens ou des Américains. Il nous arrive de prendre les que d’autres. Mais ce n’est pas une excuse, bien au contraire.On doit être plus responsables et ne pas laisser de place au hasard. Sur le cas de Guillermo (Cañas), nous, son entourage, avons clairement fait une faute. »
Or, depuis les Jeux d’Athènes 2004 et la validation du Code mondial antidopage, il existe un principe juridique incontournable : « Tous les athlètes positifs sont responsables des produits retrouvés dans leurs urines ; par conséquent, toute négligence est coupable et punissable. »
« L’État doit nous aider »
Les joueurs argentins sont pourtant, à certains égards, des modèles de professionnalisme. Ils sont reconnus pour ne se déplacer qu’entourés d’une batterie de spécialistes. Les entraîneurs, les préparateurs physiques, les physiothérapeutes ou les psychologues sont même réputés pour leur savoir-faire sur le circuit. Chaque joueur a bien évidemment un médecin personnel, mais ce dernier ne l’accompagne pas aux quatre coins dumonde. « Ilmanque à nos médecins cette parfaite connaissance du monde de la petite balle jaune. Si j’étais joueur, la première chose que je ferais serait d’engager un spécialiste que je pourrais contacter vingt-quatre heures sur vingt-quatre », remarque Ricardo Rivera, ex-entraîneur de Guillermo Vilas, aujourd’hui capitaine de l’équipe argentine de Fed Cup. Les légionnaires ne seraient donc pas des adeptes de la surmédicalisation ? Une chose est sûre : dans sa formation, le joueur argentin n’a pas forcément été préparé aux contraintes médicales de son sport. Fernando Segal est l’ex- DTN du tennis argentin (1996-2001), responsable du programme de formation dont ont profité les Coria, Nalbandian ou Acasuso. Il est le premier à avoir pointé le problème. « Lorsque je suis arrivé à la Fédération, j’ai monté un programme de formation incluant un département médical. Pour éduquer les jeunes sur la santé générale, la nutrition, la manière de traiter les blessures, et puis bien sûr... le dopage. Mais on travaillait avec les moyens du bord. Techniquement, on fait partie d’un des meilleurs pays de formation au monde. Mais, scientifiquement, nous sommes des membres du tiers-monde. Nous n’avions pas de budget pour nous occuper de ces problèmes-là. Aujourd’hui, il devient urgent qu’on investisse dans les sciences appliquéesau tennis. Seule l’Association argentinede tennis (AAT) peut le faire. Qu’est-ce qu’elle attend ? »
Du côté de l’AAT, secouée à l’image du pays en décembre 2001 par une crise économique sans précédent, le constat est identique mais un problème majeur les empêche d’agir : l’argent. Comme l’explique Arturo Grimaldi, vice-président de l’AAT : « Notre budget est ridicule. On prévoit 300 000 dollars à la formation par an dont 40 000 à la partie médicale. Le dopage est un problème sérieux dans notre sport. C’est une grande préoccupation. Mais l’État doit nous aider désormais. Parce qu’une vraie politique contre le dopage coûte beaucoup d’argent. Et nous n’en avons pas suffisamment. »
Un manque dont ne souffrent pas les joueurs argentins, puisque la plupart d’entre eux sont multimillionnaires. Sur les bords du Rio de la Plata, on ne comprend donc pas toujours pourquoi ils n’investissent pas une partie de leurs gains dans ce domaine. Commec’est le cas pour David Nalbandian, par exemple, qui dépense chaque année une fortune pour faire analyser les produits (compléments alimentaires, médicaments) qu’il consomme. En agissant de la sorte, « El Gringo » réduit au maximum les risques de contrôle positif.
La paranoïa gagne
Le petit monde du tennis argentin est persuadé que les joueurs ne sont pas à blâmer, contrairement à certaines personnes malveillantes ou inconscientes, qui gravitent dans leur entourage direct. Dans le cas de Juan Ignacio Chela, c’est son médecin d’alors qui lui avait donné un produit contenant des substances dopantes. Positif à un diurétique, Guillermo Cañas, lui, travaille avec un médecin qui fait couler beaucoup d’encre (unmédecin-pharmacien qui élabore ses propres produits, dont le contenu n’est connu que de lui-même). Enfin, dans la liste des entourages suspects, Mariano Puerta était à Roland- Garros accompagné de Dario Lecman. Cet ancien haltérophile, préparateur physique bien connu en Argentine, a été le protagoniste d’une étrange histoire lors des Jeux d’Athènes, auxquels auxquels il participait en tant qu’athlète. Lorsqu’un officiel lui avait remis, à quarante-huit heures de la compétition, une convocation pour un contrôle antidopage, Lecman était immédiatement reparti vers Buenos Aires. Pour éviter le contrôle ? Plus d’un Argentin le pense. Pourquoi les tennismen s’entourent-ils alors de personnes peu recommandables ? « Parce que le monde de la médecine du sport n’est pas si étendu que cela. Et parce que, et c’est bien triste, souvent ces médecins ou ces préparateurs physique ont eu des résultats avant. Les joueurs veulent s’entourer de ce qui se fait de mieux. Peu importe la réputation ! », confie cet homme proche du milieu du tennis qui préfère garder l’anonymat. Ces « négligences » ont le don de discréditer chaque jour un peu plus les résultats des joueurs argentins.
Comme le dit Guillermo Coria : « Aujourd’hui, nous, les Argentins, nous sommes tous suspectés. On ne tient pas compte de notre travail. On se doit de démontrer encore plus pour prouver qu’on est de grands joueurs…» Cela peut même virer à la paranoïa, puisque Coria ne consomme plus de suppléments nutritionnels. Lors des matches de Coupe Davis, certains s’étonnent mêmequ’il ne veuille plus boire de café, nimême une bouteille qu’il n’aurait pas lui même débouchée. Sa manière à lui d’éloigner les démons qui n’ont pas fini de rôder autour du tennis argentin.
ALEXANDRE JUILLARD

Translation please.

Horatio Caine
10-05-2005, 09:20 AM
Translation please.

I might have a go later but I am rather busy for much of the day! :lol:

Maybe some other guys/gals can translate some parts of the article and I do a bit later? It is too much for one person to attempt...!!! ;)

BlackSilver
10-05-2005, 09:21 AM
What was not cited until now, and it is one of the most important things about it is the reason behind this substance to be forbidden. What it does, tennis related? Improves endurance, strenght, muscular explosion?

sigmagirl91
10-05-2005, 09:28 AM
I really wish, instead of revealing a positive doping test so soon, is that the ITF would analyze the product found and determine if it was actually performance-enhancing. That way, they can decide the appropriate punishment without a lot of drama.
This finding is rather shocking but anticlimactic, I must say.

jazz_girl
10-05-2005, 09:41 AM
OMG!!! :eek: I hope it's not true! :sad: So, both Mariano Puerta and Hood have tested positive? I don't understand anything at all!

Beat
10-05-2005, 09:57 AM
I really can't imagine him being so stupid as to try it again so soon.
well, obviously yes, he is so stupid :retard: it all makes me kinda laugh...

Damita
10-05-2005, 09:59 AM
I just translated the first part of what Truc posted above. Doubt i'll have time for more.

"It's getting serious"
Carlos D'Angelo, the doctor in charge of the preventive and anti-doping control program in Argentina, rings the alarm bell.
BUENOS AIRES – from our reporter
"ARE YOU SURPRISED by the doping cases among Argentine players?
- The fact that it is happening in tennis doesn't surprise me much. You have to put the problem in its context. A tennis player is a nomadic. Every week he takes the plane, he is jet lagged, he suffers from the climatic changes, and he sleeps in a different hotel room. Tennis is actually the sport in which there are the more travels. all those things make the life of a player complicated and create distress. The consumption of medicine helps to face this pressure. And maybe there isn't enogh aftercare in Argentina, at least for tennis players.
- What do you mean...
- In Argentina, tennis is the sport that is the less subjected to doping tests. Last year, there have been 20 tests of tennis players, and we reached that number only because we also made tests during the Davis Cup ties. In football, for instance, we tested more than 2,000 players. The Argentine tennis association must face up to its responsabilities. I almost had no contact with it. And the State can't force it to do more tests. Even the ATP and the ITF never asked us for anything. It's a pity, because we should help the players who are tested postive instead of marginalizing them.
– Did you ever had any contacts with the players?
– When Juan Ignacio Chela has been tested positive, he often came to see us, because the ITF, during his ban, had asked us to control him regularly. I think he learnt a lot with us. Another player, whose name i won't mention, also came to see us one morning with a bag with products in it - dietary products and medicines - that a Spanish doctor had given to him. We told him he should better not take the products. We didn't know where they came from. Except those 2 cases, we had only a few contacts with the players. And yet there are issues, and they're getting serious. We really need to work with the young players to keep doping away from the tennis world. Because, at the end, it is always the player who will be punished. He is responsible for the products that might be found in his organism".
A.Ju.

emile32
10-05-2005, 10:00 AM
Puerta has denied the doping charge and also said he didn't hear anything from the atp/Itf.

christi
10-05-2005, 10:05 AM
Argentinian, of course. I'm getting sick of them and their doping. They should do something about it because it is no longer a coincidence.

Wojtek
10-05-2005, 10:10 AM
Eurosport and french TV5 just show news about Puerta. Puerta = fucking cheater

From eurosport

Argentine Mariano Puerta risks becoming the first ATP player to receive a life ban after testing positive for the stimulant etilefrine after July's French Open final defeat to Spain's Rafael Nadal. Puerta was banned for nine month in 2003 after testing positive for the steroid clenbuterol.

fabolous
10-05-2005, 10:10 AM
Puerta has denied the doping charge and also said he didn't hear anything from the atp/Itf.
he also said he is very angry about l'equipe. he is sure that he didn't take any forbidden substance, cuz since he has been caught for doping the first time, he is extremely careful and doesn't even drink orange juice. he already spoke to his lawyers about all that.

jtipson
10-05-2005, 10:11 AM
Eurosport and french TV5 just show news about Puerta. Puerta = fucking cheater


Argentinian, of course. I'm getting sick of them and their doping. They should do something about it because it is no longer a coincidence.

How about we hold off with the name-calling and tar-brushing, guys? We hardly know anything about this case.

oneandonlyhsn
10-05-2005, 10:12 AM
This is the worst news ever, Mariano :sad: I hope its not true, I really do. I really like him, his style of play and his determination. This stinks

R.Federer
10-05-2005, 10:15 AM
U think the papers would print something out like that without knowing the facts first :rolleyes: , u ever heard of defamation of character, its only a matter of hours before Puerta accepts his punishment.
Yes I do think they will do that without all the facts
This is the same they do with Armstrong. If they had true evidence of him, they would have his victory thrown out by now. It is a lot of speculation, maybe based on some evidence, but may not be good enough evidence to prove anything

R.Federer
10-05-2005, 10:16 AM
French Open finalist Mariano Puerta has denied taking any banned substances following reports that he tested positive at Roland Garros this year.
French newspaper L'Equipe said the world number 10 provided a positive test for the stimulant Etilifrine.

Puerta has previously served a nine-month drugs ban so he could face a life ban if the test is confirmed.

But Puerta said: "I'm really angry. I've started investigations with my lawyers. There's no truth in it."

Puerta served a suspension in 2003 when he tested positive for the anabolic steroid clenbutherol.

Five Argentine players have failed drugs tests in last five years.

Guillermo Canas, Guillermo Coria and Juan Ignacio Chela have all served suspensions, while Martin Rodriquez was docked ATP points and prize money.

As well as denying any wrongdoing, Puerta also said he had not been informed of any positive test.

"It's strange because nobody from the ATP or ITF has called me," he told the Reuters news agency.

"After the (previous) positive I've got to be very careful - I can't even take an orange juice."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/sport2/hi/tennis/4311058.stm

Wojtek
10-05-2005, 10:16 AM
How about we hold off with the name-calling and tar-brushing, guys? We hardly know anything about this case.

Eurosport 2 is showing news every 15 minutes. It's top news and they're showing once again this story. He will banned

myggen
10-05-2005, 10:20 AM
I find it really hard to understand that the Argentines are stupid enough to be taken again and again... Why don't we see any American getting caught? We know how extremely liberal they are in other sports in regards to drugs. Well, we have the story about Agassi, but ATP is very careful with who they are giving the blame. They need a guilty one, and we all know that guilty one will not be Andre Agassi.

Damita
10-05-2005, 10:23 AM
Yes I do think they will do that without all the facts
This is the same they do with Armstrong. If they had true evidence of him, they would have his victory thrown out by now. It is a lot of speculation, maybe based on some evidence, but may not be good enough evidence to prove anything
scientific evidence.... they didn't wake up this morning thinking: "hey, why don't we start bashing a sportsman by creating a whole story... pick a sport.. oh tennis, yeah let's have some fun!".... :rolleyes:
They use the info they got from the lab.

Same for Lance.
Oh and, about the sanctions... L'Equipe is a newspaper, they're not a branch of the ITF or the cycling association: they can't ban sportsmen or take their trophies back :p

:rolleyes:

Noelle
10-05-2005, 10:24 AM
What was not cited until now, and it is one of the most important things about it is the reason behind this substance to be forbidden. What it does, tennis related? Improves endurance, strenght, muscular explosion?
Etilefrine is a stimulant.

Wojtek
10-05-2005, 10:24 AM
I find it really hard to understand that the Argentines are stupid enough to be taken again and again... Why don't we see any American getting caught? We know how extremely liberal they are in other sports in regards to drugs. Well, we have the story about Agassi, but ATP are very careful with who they are giving the blame. They need a guilty one, and we know that guilty one will not be Andre Agassi.

I think it isn't only Argentinian problem. More players take doping but the only big doping scandals goes out at Roland Garros. ATP won't ban such big name like Agassi, even if he has run like Ben Johnson on the court.

Damita
10-05-2005, 10:25 AM
I find it really hard to understand that the Argentines are stupid enough to be taken again and again...
Well the fact that he's been tested positive doesn't necessarily mean he took the product on purpose :shrug:

Wojtek
10-05-2005, 10:30 AM
Yes I do think they will do that without all the facts
This is the same they do with Armstrong. If they had true evidence of him, they would have his victory thrown out by now. It is a lot of speculation, maybe based on some evidence, but may not be good enough evidence to prove anything

Sorry but it's very stupid post. Did Marion Jones or Tim Montgomery tested positive when they won medals etc. Did they lost record or medals? No

They same with Armstrong. He is the winner but he isn't clean for everyone. His fans will post that he is clear because he didn't tested positive. It's normal reaction but it doesn't mean that everyone will have the same opinion.

R.Federer
10-05-2005, 10:33 AM
scientific evidence.... they didn't wake up this morning thinking: "hey, why don't we start bashing a sportsman by creating a whole story... pick a sport.. oh tennis, yeah let's have some fun!".... :rolleyes:
They use the info they got from the lab.

Same for Lance.
Oh and, about the sanctions... L'Equipe is a newspaper, they're not a branch of the ITF or the cycling association: they can't ban sportsmen or take their trophies back :p

:rolleyes:

Yes, what I am saying is that if Lequipe's information from the lab is so good and proves the doping why is it that the cycling assoc. has still not done something about it?? [ :rolleyes: ] Because the evidence -if there ever was any- is not good enough.

So here also this is just L'equipe making L'noise and until ATP or ITF says something, there is nothing to say that Mariano is guilty except the wishes of this witch hunting newpaper

R.Federer
10-05-2005, 10:38 AM
Well the fact that he's been tested positive doesn't necessarily mean he took the product on purpose :shrug:
Intent cannot be proven and frankly it is irrelevant in a doping case

MariaV
10-05-2005, 10:38 AM
I just translated the first part of what Truc posted above. Doubt i'll have time for more.

"It's getting serious"
Carlos D'Angelo, the doctor in charge of the preventive and anti-doping control program in Argentina, rings the alarm bell.
BUENOS AIRES – from our reporter
"ARE YOU SURPRISED by the doping cases among Argentine players?
- The fact that it is happening in tennis doesn't surprise me much. You have to put the problem in its context. A tennis player is a nomadic. Every week he takes the plane, he is jet lagged, he suffers from the climatic changes, and he sleeps in a different hotel room. Tennis is actually the sport in which there are the more travels. all those things make the life of a player complicated and create distress. The consumption of medicine helps to face this pressure. And maybe there isn't enogh aftercare in Argentina, at least for tennis players.
- What do you mean...
- In Argentina, tennis is the sport that is the less subjected to doping tests. Last year, there have been 20 tests of tennis players, and we reached that number only because we also made tests during the Davis Cup ties. In football, for instance, we tested more than 2,000 players. The Argentine tennis association must face up to its responsabilities. I almost had no contact with it. And the State can't force it to do more tests. Even the ATP and the ITF never asked us for anything. It's a pity, because we should help the players who are tested postive instead of marginalizing them.
– Did you ever had any contacts with the players?
– When Juan Ignacio Chela has been tested positive, he often came to see us, because the ITF, during his ban, had asked us to control him regularly. I think he learnt a lot with us. Another player, whose name i won't mention, also came to see us one morning with a bag with products in it - dietary products and medicines - that a Spanish doctor had given to him. We told him he should better not take the products. We didn't know where they came from. Except those 2 cases, we had only a few contacts with the players. And yet there are issues, and they're getting serious. We really need to work with the young players to keep doping away from the tennis world. Because, at the end, it is always the player who will be punished. He is responsible for the products that might be found in his organism".
A.Ju.

Thanks for translating dear. :hug:

Castafiore
10-05-2005, 10:39 AM
This is the same they do with Armstrong. If they had true evidence of him, they would have his victory thrown out by now.
No, it's not the same: As I understand it, the reason why they can not throw his victories out is that the keeping of those samples for so long and the tests afterwards were done as a scientific experiment (so that they could test out future doping tests) but they weren't part of a regular doping procedure at the moment of the races Lance was involved in.

stijntje
10-05-2005, 10:45 AM
OMG, how stupid he is to be caught once again! :smash: :smash: :smash:

Once is not enough to learn :rolleyes: :o

he isn't stupid because he got caught...

he's just stupid to take those drugs in first place!

vincayou
10-05-2005, 10:52 AM
No, it's not the same: As I understand it, the reason why they can not throw his victories out is that the keeping of those samples for so long and the tests afterwards were done as a scientific experiment (so that they could test out future doping tests) but they weren't part of a regular doping procedure at the moment of the races Lance was involved in.

You understood well.

Jelena
10-05-2005, 10:52 AM
Argentinian, of course. I'm getting sick of them and their doping. They should do something about it because it is no longer a coincidence.
In the second part of the article posted in French the Vice-President of the Argentinian Tennis Federation claims, they don't have the money anymore (after the economical crisis Argentina had to go through in 2001) to make controls by themselves. But there is another thing I don't understand at all. In the 3rd part of the article it is written, that Puerta was in RG accompanied by a former weightlifter. How can he be so stupid to work with someone who (very probably) has good connections into the "tablets-selling-scene"?? Also this weightlifter has had quite a strange story in Athens, where he was participant of the Olympics. About 2 days after his competition he got an official request to go to a Doping control. But he immediately left to Buenos Aires. They ask in the article the question: "To avoid the control?"

Nathy
10-05-2005, 10:55 AM
Oh, here we go again. I was really hoping it wouldn't be a male, especially not an Argentinian male, again.

We'll see how Mariano is able to defend himself. If he does get the life ban, what a shameful piece of history he will attain.

Once again, if he was using the stimulant, how sad for Nikolay and all others who fell to him at RG. :(

Ditto!

Stan :(

jazz_girl
10-05-2005, 10:56 AM
In the second part of the article posted in French the Vice-President of the Argentinian Tennis Federation claims, they don't have the money anymore (after the economical crisis Argentina had to go through in 2001) to make controls by themselves. But there is another thing I don't understand at all. In the 3rd part of the article it is written, that Puerta was in RG accompanied by a former weightlifter. How can he be so stupid to work with someone who (very probably) has good connections into the "tablets-selling-scene"?? Also this weightlifter has had quite a strange story in Athens, where he was participant of the Olympics. About 2 days after his competition he got an official request to go to a Doping control. But he immediately left to Buenos Aires. They ask in the article the question: "To avoid the control?"
It's true that he left from Athens and came back to Bs As but for family problems. If he had skipped a doping test, he would have been banned like some other athletes, so I don't thin anyone can blame or make assumptions on this...

Carlita
10-05-2005, 11:00 AM
Argentinian, of course. I'm getting sick of them and their doping. They should do something about it because it is no longer a coincidence.oh shut it! Let the guy defend himself!! :( He's not THAT stupid! He said in a bbc article that he has to be careful, can't even have an orange juice! So......before we condemn someone....

MariaV
10-05-2005, 11:06 AM
oh shut it! Let the guy defend himself!! :( He's not THAT stupid! He said in a bbc article that he has to be careful, can't even have an orange juice! So......before we condemn someone....
Exactly Carlita! :yeah:

C3PO
10-05-2005, 11:13 AM
Here are the scans of the newspaper, I just translated bits of the articles quickly so excuse me in advance for the mistakes here and there...

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/6020/puerta012ak.th.jpg (http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=puerta012ak.jpg)
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/6020/puerta012ak.jpg


L'Equipe interviews Carlos D'angelo the doctor of the anti-doping program in Argentina...

Asked about all those drug-taking players in Argentina he answers: "What is happening in Tennis does not surprise me. A tennisman is a "nomad", he travels all the time, has to handle jet-lags, climatic changes, sleeping in different places... All those changes cause stress and to take some drugs can help to fight it... And maybe there are not enough medical checkings in Argentina, especially in tennis. Indeed, in Argentina tennis is the sport with the lower anti-doping controls.. Last year, there were only about 20 tests on tennismen, and all were done during the Davis cup. In football for example, we have tested 2000 players. The Tennis association in Argentina must take its reponsabilities and I have almost no contact with it. And I have very few contacts with the players too.. Only when Chela was suspended, he came to see us and we have given him some advice, we have helped him...".



http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/7430/puerta026sv.th.jpg (http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=puerta026sv.jpg)

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/7430/puerta026sv.jpg



In this part they are talking about the "paranoia" in Argentine tennis...

The journalist is asking Fernando Segal (Ex director of Tennis in Argentina from 1996 to 2001): "When I came to the federation, I set up a program of training incluing a medical department. But we worked with very few money... We are one of the best country in the world for training players, but we're like a third-world country for the scientific program. Today it's very important that we invest in the tennis scientific department. Only the AAT (Argentine Tennis Association) can do it, what is it waiting for?

Arturo Grimaldi (Vice-President of the AAT): Our budget is ridiculous. We plan $300 000 per year for training players with only $40 000 for the medical department. Doping is a serious issue in our sport and the governement must help us. But a real policy against doping costs lot of money and we don't have enough money for the moment.


http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/4286/puerta030sw.th.jpg (http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=puerta030sw.jpg)
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/4286/puerta030sw.jpg

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/4880/puerta048pt.th.jpg (http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=puerta048pt.jpg)
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/4880/puerta048pt.jpg

In this part they talk about the "etilefrine" the product Puerta has been positive for:
Olivier Rabin (Director in AMA=World Anti-doping Agency) : "Stimulating effects by this product are majors. It is usually used to treat hypotension, very rare among athletes, and helps to increase the cardiac flow and blood pressure. It's not a minor product and its use by an athlete means a 2 years ban, if there is no proof of therapeutic authorization by a doctor."

And now?
The second valuation done about 2 weeks ago has been proved positive and Puerta is risking a life-ban... However the official procedure continues and the claim of a definitive sanction will not occur before several weeks. The name of the player will not be said officially by the tennis authorities before his case is treated by a tribunal with 3 independant judges. For example concerning the doping case of Koubek, tested positive to Corticosteroide during Roland Garros 2004, it was officially revealed 7 months later in december 2004. Concernig Puerta, he has continued to play since Roland-Garros (10 tournaments), he will abandon his ATP points as well as his prize money ($592 878) earned since his positive test.

Billabong
10-05-2005, 11:18 AM
:eek::sad:

jazz_girl
10-05-2005, 11:18 AM
I heard two different doctors talking about this substance and they're saying that it's ridiculous that a tennis player takes this to take a physical advantage because tennis matches last for long hours, and this only works for a very short period of time. They also said that it increases sweat and may produce the player to dehydrate, so it's not convenient at all...

DhammaTiger
10-05-2005, 11:30 AM
This case is so strange and bizarre. but more bizarre is the attitude of some posters here who condemn Puerta before even listening to his side. I am so sorry for him to be involved in this allegation. I have been a fan of his for many years, but if he is genuinely guilty then he deserves what gets. Until all the facts of the case are announced by the ITF and the relevant tribunals make their decisions,I shall continue believing in Mariano's innocence. One thing though I must add is tat if anyone bothers to chec his record in the ATp tournamentsearly this year then his run at RG wasn't exceptional. After all he won Casablanca and was runner up at BA.

Castafiore
10-05-2005, 11:32 AM
The second part of the article Truc has posted.(it's a quick translation so never mind the mistakes please)

The demon of Artentine Tennis

The case of Puerta follows an already substantial list of caught Argentines. It’s an ongoing problem.

Buenos Aires, from our correspondent.
It’s a battle of demons and angels in the Argentine world of tennis.
On the one side, the dollars and titles are accumulating and the prestige on a sports level just keeps on growing; 4 players (Coria, Nalbandian, Puerta and Gaudio) hold rank number 8, 9, 10 and 11. That’s a nice selection that allows Argentina to have the highest number of players within the top 10. That’s historical.
On the other side, the accusations and the suspicions of doping are also increasing, discrediting the performances of the most eminent members of that group: six positive cases (Chela, Coria, Rodriguez, Puerta, Cañas and again Puerta) in less than 5 months. That’s also historical.
These cases, independent from each other and each with their own specifics, do not have to lead to the conclusion that Argentina is the new East-Germany. Here, the doping is not a state affair. Guys like Chela, Coria, Cañas and Puerta were not the victim of a system headed by a doctor Mabuse. If we look at each case more closely, they all have one thing in common: the negligence of a player who is not that well informed and educated in the matters of forbidden products. “We are Latin”, analyses Fernando Cao, physical caretaker of Cañas, “We have a different personality than Europeans or Americans. So, it happens that we are not as strict about things than others. This is not an excuse, on the contrary. We have to take responsibility and not leave things to chance. In the case of Cañas, We – his entourage – have clearly made a mistake”.
Furthermore, since the Olympic Games of Athens in 2004 and since the validation of the world’s antidoping regulations, there’s a clear judicial principle: “All the athletes found positive are responsible for the products found in their urine: as a consequence, all negligence is guilt and thus punishable.”




I'll see if have the time to translate the rest of it.

Castafiore
10-05-2005, 12:03 PM
Part three of the article of L'Equipe as posted by Truc:

“The government has to help us”

Nevertheless, the Argentine players are – in certain regards - models of professionalism. They are well known for their reputation to travel with a good entourage of specialists. Coaches, physical caretakers, physiotherapists or psychologists with a good reputation about their expertise. Each players has – of course – his own medical team, but that team doesn’t follow the player to all the corners of the world. “Our doctors lack a perfect knowledge of the world of that yellow little ball. If I were a player, the first thing that I would do is to hire a specialist who I could call 24 hours a day”, commented Ricardo Rivera, former coach of Guillermo Vilas and today captain of the Fed Cup of Argentina. Are these people not prone to overmedicate? One thing is clear: in his education as a tennis player, an Argentine player is not necessarily well prepared to be aware of the medical restrictions of his sport.
Fernando Segal (ex-DTN (?) of Argentine tennis from 1996 – 2001), is responsible for the educational program as has been benefited by, by players like Coria, Nalbandian or Acasuso. He’s the first to acknowledge the problem. “When I came to the Federation, I started a training program that included a medical section to educate young players on their general health, food, the way to treat injuries and of course…doping. But we have work with the means available to us. Technically speaking, we are one of the best countries as far as training and education is concerned, but from a scientific viewpoint we could be seen as members of the underdeveloped world. We don’t have the financial means to take care of that problem. Today, it becomes urgent that we invest in scientific methods geared towards tennis. Only the Argentine Association of Tennis (AAT) can do something about it. What are they waiting for?

From the side of the AAT (suffering from a negative image of a country hit by an economic crisis without precedence since December 2001) they come to the same conclusion but they have one major obstacle that prevents them from acting: money. Vice-president of the ATT, Arturo Grimaldi, explains: “Our budget is ridiculous. They have foreseen 300.000 dollars for educational purposes and 40.000 of which is for medical matters. Doping is a serious problem in our sport. It’s a big preoccupation but the government has to help us now. Because a real campaign against doping costs a lot of money and we simply don’t have enough of it.”
That’s a problem most of these Argentine players don’t have, since most of them are multi-millionaires. On the coasts of the Rio de la Plata, they can not quite understand why some of them simply don’t invest a part of their earnings in that department. David Nalbandian, for example, spends a fortune to analyze the products (vitamins, food, medicine,…) he takes. By doing so, “El Gringo” reduces the risk of a positive test.

Damita
10-05-2005, 12:06 PM
Yes, what I am saying is that if Lequipe's information from the lab is so good and proves the doping why is it that the cycling assoc. has still not done something about it?? [ :rolleyes: ] Because the evidence -if there ever was any- is not good enough.

So here also this is just L'equipe making L'noise and until ATP or ITF says something, there is nothing to say that Mariano is guilty except the wishes of this witch hunting newpaper
You've pointed out the problem yourself: what is the cycling association -or here the ITF and ATP- doing?
It's not a matter of evidence, it's a problem of what the competent organisations can legally do, and what they want to do, once they're facing evidence.
Intent cannot be proven and frankly it is irrelevant in a doping caseYou misunderstood me. I didn't say intent was relevant. Myggen was saying it was stupid of him to be caught again. All i was saying in my answer is that if he wasn't really aware of what he was taking (honestly Argentine players don't seem to be very well guided and counselled :rolleyes: ) then we can't say he wanted to cheat, and there's no point wondering if that was stupid or not.
But if he knew what he was doing, then yes it is stupid (and very sad :()
Pretty hard for him to prove he had no clue he was consuming a forbidden product (especially as it's the second time he's been caught), and even if he does then as you said (and as the doctor in the interview i translated said too) he'll still be responsible because it is his body and he should look better what he drinks/eats/gets through injection...
Thanks for translating dear. :hug:
you're welcome :)

NicoFan
10-05-2005, 12:07 PM
This case is so strange and bizarre. but more bizarre is the attitude of some posters here who condemn Puerta before even listening to his side.

Totally agree.

Innocent until proven quilty.

I'm supporting Mariano.

I hate the ATP - I think they are a bunch of clueless idiots. They can't do anything right so why would I think they could get testing for doping right.

And they must know they are clueless because they've sent the responsbility for testing for doping over to the ITF.

Another career may be ruined by the ATP. They should be proud of themselves...(said sarcastically).

Xmanfan
10-05-2005, 12:11 PM
we don't know all the facts but it'll be months before we do I guess. In the meantime Puerta could be illegally winning tournaments, or at least earning more money than others by beating them. I think the ATP/ITF should sort their act out and deal with these test results a hell of a lot quicker and I think players found positive should be suspended from the tour until the outcome is decided. As bad as Puerta feels about this how the hell do the others playing him in Japan (and losing!) feel right now?!!!

cremolafoam
10-05-2005, 12:11 PM
Type Etilefrine into Google and the top ranked search result I get is http://www.emea.eu.int/pdfs/human/comp/opinion/2707002en.pdf :

"On 13 November 2002, orphan designation (EU/3/02/122) was granted by the European Commission to Laboratoires SERB, France, for etilefrine for the treatment of low flow priapism.

What is low flow priapism?
Low flow priapism is the medical disorder in which there is constant erection of the penis in the absence of sexual interest. Patients with low flow priapism usually present with a history of several hours of painful erection"...

Crikey! Might be a good excuse to present to the doping panel though...

Jim Jones
10-05-2005, 12:16 PM
Contrary to what Lance claims (and that you seemed to have believed), L'Equipe is not a tabloid. They have never accused someone of doping without serious evidence.
L'Equipe only announced results for Lance and if they were positive then why didn't the anti-drug committee announce it? L'Equipe may not be a tabloid but they are nationalistic. The Director of the Tour de France openly said that he did not like to see Lance win so many Tour de France titles. I'm waiting to see what the anti-drug committee says and for now will disregard what l'Equipe says.

sonatinca
10-05-2005, 12:17 PM
It seems to me like it all made by papers, ços still no official information neither on ITF nor ATP site. I think the information like this should come out from officials, not from papers... hate them! :sad:

Aleksa's Laydee
10-05-2005, 12:21 PM
omg...not again :rolleyes:

Denaon
10-05-2005, 12:25 PM
I'm devastated, but I'll wait for ITF for the annoucement..if it is not true, I would sue the motherfuck*rs of L'equipe.....I just pray for this not to be true....

Castafiore
10-05-2005, 12:26 PM
Part 4 (and last part) of the L'Equipe article Truc posted earlier:

Paranoia increases

The small word of Argentine tennis is convinced that its players are not to blame contrary to certain members of their immediate entourage (with or without them knowingly doing so)
In the case of Juan Ignacio Chela, his doctor gave him a product that had doping substances in it. Found positive of diurétique (?) Guillermo Cañas travels with a doctor who has made a lot of ink flow (a doctor/pharmacist who gives products of which he does not know the contents sufficiently).

In any case, of this list of suspicious members of the entourage, Mariano Puerta was in Roland Garros accompanied by Dario Lecman, a former weightlifter and physical caretaker well known in Argentina, who had the leading role in a strange history in the Games of Athens, where he took part as an athlete. 24 hours before the competition, he received a notice of an antidoping control. Lecman immediately returned home to Buenes Aires. To avoid the control? More than one Argentine thinks so. “Because the world of medicine in sports is not that elaborate and wide.
And therefore – and this is very sad – doctors or physical caretakers often had good results before and "players want to surround themselves with the best, regardless of the reputation!”, confides a man close to the world of tennis who wishes to stay anonymous. These ‘oversights’ risk to discredit the sport more and more each day and it threatens to overshadow the results of the Argentine players.
As Guillermo Coria says: “Today, we, the Argentines, are the most suspect. People do not consider all the work we put in. We have to prove even more that we are great players.” This may border on paranoia because Coria takes nothing more than food supplements. During the Davis Cup matches, certain people were astonished to see that he even refused to drink coffee or drink from a bottle he did not open himself. It’s his way to chase away the demons that have not finished haunting the Argentine tennis world.

Alexandre Juillard

Castafiore
10-05-2005, 12:32 PM
L'Equipe only announced results for Lance and if they were positive then why didn't the anti-drug committee announce it?
Because they had positive samples from a renound lab but the tests done to these samples - even if they were positive - had nothing to do with the anti-drug committee or the regular tests done during a competition.

The positive tests are there - apparently - but it's part of a scientific experiment and it's not part of the everyday routine of antidoping tests during the competion. (there's an entire thread about this in the non-tennis section of MTF)

L'Equipe may not be a tabloid but they are nationalistic.
If L'Equipe is nationalistic, why then did they attack and scrutinize their own athletes? Famous example: Richard Virenque.
They are on a quest against doping but it's got little do with nationality, I think.

happy928
10-05-2005, 12:32 PM
:)

Alvarillo
10-05-2005, 12:34 PM
Marianico :rolleyes: ...........

Black Adam
10-05-2005, 12:34 PM
I am sure that he won't be banned..........ATP haven't said anything yet.

star
10-05-2005, 12:38 PM
oh shut it! Let the guy defend himself!! :( He's not THAT stupid! He said in a bbc article that he has to be careful, can't even have an orange juice! So......before we condemn someone....

But don't you see he lied even in that statement? Of course he can have orange juice. He won't test positive from orange juice. It always bothers me when people state an untruth when they are protesting their innocence.

But if it is true that no one from the ATP or ITF has contacted him, I'll take a wait and see position.

I wonder who is leaking the information to l'equipe and why. That would be a very interesting story. L'equipe is in an interesting position of printing a story about an alleged wrongdoer based on information from another wrongdoer. Maybe L'equipe should write a story about why it is that employees in an organization where results of tests are supposed to be kept confidential leak those results to L'equipe on seemingly a regular basis. ;) ;) ;)

Nathaliia
10-05-2005, 12:42 PM
goddamn... i got sms telling me what was found and i run quickly to the computer with internet at uni to read about it... just let me tell you i am shocked...
and bruised
and i wish so much it all was not true
it is terrible when we like someone and we trust in someone and the person may turn out a cheater or may not learn on own mistakes....
or i just don't know what to think about it, gotta make up my mind...

quasimodo
10-05-2005, 12:42 PM
L'Equipe is definitely a big team of jerks. I remember, in 1998, they bashed French Soccer National Team Coach Aimé Jacquet to death, depicting as a completely incompetent person. Then France won the World Cup and they were f** in the a**. They are definitely witch-hunters.

Anyway, that does not mean that the story is made up. But since neither the ITF or the ATP are talking about the matter, I don't see what's their point to make a big sensationnal headline about Puerta. Personally I believe that Drug-use is very common among tennis players. It's not fair to attack one specific player, they had better point out how the ATP and WTA, because of mercantile considerations, are so reluctant to deal seriously with that problem, like what's done in many other sport disciplines.

delsa
10-05-2005, 12:46 PM
Yes, what I am saying is that if Lequipe's information from the lab is so good and proves the doping why is it that the cycling assoc. has still not done something about it?? [ :rolleyes: ] Because the evidence -if there ever was any- is not good enough.

So here also this is just L'equipe making L'noise and until ATP or ITF says something, there is nothing to say that Mariano is guilty except the wishes of this witch hunting newpaper

Because the whole cycling world is rotten by doping and corruption, that Armstrong has very good relations as it is well-known. He already had problems with Italian cyclists Filippo Simeoni accusing his good friend Doctor Michele Ferrari and revealing he was doped, a lot of other cyclists were too and explaining everything about Ferrari's actions to the Italian Justice 6 years ago. Then Armstrong in a famous episode during the 18th stage of the Tour 2004 chased him ragously when he broke from the "peloton" and had and said to him "Ill destroy you" and destroy him and his career he did thanks to his relations and influence... But Simeoni whith more and more things coming out years after years, with the fight against doping made more and more seriouly is becomming to be believed... The president of the ICU another good friend of him left his job recently. Many French, Belgian, Dutch cyclists admited they were doped and revealed in books they wrote how the cylcing world is rotten backstage, how it is made. A specilist recently said that the situation in cyclism right now is like that: you've got the doping of the rich, the doping of a cycling "middle class", the doping of the poor and a few cyclists who ride in vain without doping knowing they won't achieve anything in their carreer but yet refusing to give up in front of all the pressure they have from their teams even if they'll end up fired, not able to ride anymore" and i completely agree with him. When they were debate about this because there are a lot in France some semi-pro or amateur cyclists said that even at their levels they had to be doped because everybody was so if not they can't compete...It makes you imagine how it must be at pro level... :rolleyes:

Then about Armstrong. It's such a cliché to spread that he's hated by the French. Many of them just worship him! The only time he had true serious problems with crowds on the Tour was in a montain stage three years ago when he was spit on by German T-Mobile fans actually! And even if many French ppl actually "hate" him if you want to put it like that they've never been the majotity. And you forget all those who don't give a damn about cycling or L Armstrong who are more and more numerous. They don't even know him but they hate him of course and therefore deserved to be put in the same bag as all their other compatriots and be insulted ;) .
He makes a fool of himself with his defence strategy. He can't diferenciate a nation of 62 millions people from a French sports newspaper and a French lab? He insults them all just because he had some problems with a lab and a few journalists? He uses his ties to spread false things, a very simplistic manicheic derogatory portrait of what would be his ennemies, those who martyrize him because "they don't like to see an American win "their" race" (and what about Greg Lemmond? )? Let me guess: many ppl in the US believed this shit right? All those who don't use their judgement skills, sadly. :rolleyes:

As a sportsman, the fact that he's doped doesn't have any importance since "they're "all" doped" in this "sport". That's why i'm disgusted from it and many ppl of the young generations who saw all the doping cases coming out are. It doesn't even make him lose any credit and he's among the best champions of this discipline so far just behind Eddy Merkx (spelling?) and will always be. The only thing i found stupid about L'Equipe was how much noise they made about this story. I was just thinking: "i'd like them to take all the other many doping cases in cycling that seriously". He's doped like many others (don't be naive) , he's a great champion of a shameful rotten "sport" sadly but he's proven he's quite stupid showing no dignity at all in this doping case. Even some of his compatriots faced to similar situations like Marion Jones and co despite the fact that they can't be believed defended themselves with dignity, not spreading false stuff and hateful remarks. Many were very disapointed by this and i understand them. Well, i don't care about cycling anyway. I'll start watching it again when a giant "cleaning" will have been sucessfully made.

NiciSunflower
10-05-2005, 12:48 PM
I heard two different doctors talking about this substance and they're saying that it's ridiculous that a tennis player takes this to take a physical advantage because tennis matches last for long hours, and this only works for a very short period of time. They also said that it increases sweat and may produce the player to dehydrate, so it's not convenient at all...
I think this is not the point, if something is on the index you're not to take it. Period. No matter if it improves your abilities or not.

As for Puerta, if he's found guilty it doesn't show his cleverness. :rolleyes: But the ones to blame are the officials who don't take care of regular doping tests for every athlete. It's a slap in the face for those who are tested 20 times a year or more.

One of the main problems is that there are no equal opportunities for everyone - the conditions have to be the same for everybody. Either regular controls for all athletes or doping allowed for everyone as Michael Stich suggested in an interview last year I think.

Gonzalo81
10-05-2005, 12:53 PM
Argentinian, of course. I'm getting sick of them and their doping. They should do something about it because it is no longer a coincidence.

Yeah, you are right, the best solution should be ban them all out of the tour :rolleyes: :retard:

Rosa Luxembourg
10-05-2005, 12:57 PM
My perception has always been that l'EQUIPE is a trustworthy newspaper.

An on the topic of this thread: if these accusations are true, Puerta does need a brain surgery asap.

star
10-05-2005, 12:59 PM
And they[ATP] must know they are clueless because they've sent the responsbility for testing for doping over to the ITF.

.

You are overlooking the fact that this test was from an ITF tournament, and not an ATP tournament. So, your point about turning over testing to the ITF doesn't really make any sense in this context. ITF was the agency responsible for controls at RG.

Also, you surely realize that neither the ATP nor the ITF perform the testing. The urine samples are sent to a laboratory -- and not just any old laboratory, but one specializing in this sort of testing.

croat123
10-05-2005, 01:01 PM
what a moron :retard: i think the itf should start punishing the argentine tennis association. one or two doping suspentions is just bad luck, but 6 in 5 years can't be a coincidence.

Marine
10-05-2005, 01:02 PM
No time to read all the posts, sorry...

Well, I suppose L'Equipe is anti-argentinian too... this newspaper is really mean. Poor innocent sportmen.

prima donna
10-05-2005, 01:02 PM
Sadly, juicers will never come clean. There's always an excuse.

Much like baseball, "it was in something I took, I didn't know --- help ... I'm a victim"

How disturbing and depressing, no wonder Mariano had so much energy to execute jumping backhands even after being jerked around by Nadal like a yo-yo on a string. Oh well. Hopefully this issue gets resolved.

Atleast, now, there's arguably between Coria & Puerta a bigger star being implicated; hopefully, people will just let the Guillermo live. He's a guy that made a mistake and yet the likes of John McEnroe have the audacity to make indictments & pass judgement. Last I checked, didn't JMac juice it up ? Wonder if this was before or after Borg ripped his heart out ? No wonder he was able to turn around his losing record.

delsa
10-05-2005, 01:04 PM
L'Equipe is definitely a big team of jerks. I remember, in 1998, they bashed French Soccer National Team Aimé Jacquet to death, depicting as a completely incompetent person. Then France won the World Cup and they were f** in the a**. They are definitely witch-hunters.

Anyway, that does not mean that the story is made up. But since neither the ITF or the ATP are talking about the matter, I don't see what's their point to make a big sensationnal headline about Puerta. Personally I believe that Drug-use is very common among tennis players. It's not fair to attack one specific player, they had better point out how the ATP and WTA, because of mercantile considerations, are so reluctant to deal seriously with that problem, like what's done in many other sport disciplines.

I agree they're witch-hunters for sure. But those who says L'Equipe is nationalistic that's quite a stupid thing to say because. Will it do them any good to reveal the 2005 Roland Garros tournament is dicredited in a way and his image hurt by all of this?

Then i can tell you they can be equally hard on French "idols" as foreign sportsmen and sports personalities. Ex: Jaquet, Domenech, Virenque, Mauresmo after her doubles final in Wimbledon 2005, Zidane speaking of hearing voices then saying his words were quoted wrong and he was speaking of his brother etc...And all of those are ranked 1st, 2nd on most appreciated sportsmen/women polls etc or apreciated by the French at least... So that is not the problem, definitely. You can't reproch them that. L'Equipe just suck most of the time that's all. Like anything related to sports coverage in France. Sports shows are very poor. Sports coverage on tv is getting better but that's still far from being well enough. They've got good debate show, good culture stuff and all that but sport coverage? There is a lot of progress to be made there and it seems they're working on that recently so that's good (i've lived there since a little more than a decade so i begin to know it...). :(

They'll do anything to sell papers. :rolleyes: But it's the only French sports daily newspaper so if you want to read about sports you have no other choice than buying it. It's not like in Spain, Italy etc...where there are more than one of them (As, Marca, El Mundo Deportivo, La Gazetta dello Sport etc...). :rolleyes:

Since i've lived in France, there were many times when i would have liked to be able to read another sports newspaper...

R.Federer
10-05-2005, 01:06 PM
Let us just wait and see what ATP/ITF says. The least we can do is give Mariano the benefit of the doubt until the time when and if there is an *official* annoucement.

This is a bad day for tennis world all together and particulary so for Arngentine tennis. In future, when an Argentine will win a major tournament there will be talk and doubts and such stuff. So hope that the news today is not correct

Jelena
10-05-2005, 01:07 PM
Also, you surely realize that neither the ATP nor the ITF perform the testing. The urine samples are sent to a laboratory -- and not just any old laboratory, but one specializing in this sort of testing.
That laboratory is one of those, which are authorized by the IOC and the WADA to do the dope-controls. There are only about a dozen of those authorized labs around the world. If a control is made by a non-authorized lab, then the control must not be used to condemn a sports person. But the lab in Paris is a "WADA-lab"....

Gonzalo81
10-05-2005, 01:08 PM
This is a bad day for tennis world all together and particulary so for Arngentine tennis. In future, when an Argentine will win a major tournament there will be talk and doubts and such stuff. So hope that the news today is not correct

There are some morons that have already beeing doing that for a while :mad:

delsa
10-05-2005, 01:10 PM
There are some morons that have already beeing doing that for a while :mad:
:( Don't pay attention to that. :hug:

Gonzalo81
10-05-2005, 01:11 PM
:( Don't pay attention to that. :hug:

I´m not, I´m just pointing the fact that they already do it :hug:

Experimentee
10-05-2005, 01:15 PM
I'm inclined not to believe Puerta. One time can be a mistake, but twice is no coincidence. If the first time was a mistake, any normal person would be extremely careful in the future knowing they face a life ban. If he returns another positive test, it is beyond carelessness, it must be cheating.

Gonzalo81
10-05-2005, 01:18 PM
I'm inclined not to believe Puerta. One time can be a mistake, but twice is no coincidence. If the first time was a mistake, any normal person would be extremely careful in the future knowing they face a life ban. If he returns another positive test, it is beyond carelessness, it must be cheating.

I like the way you said it.....i can understand that you are not inclined to believe him, but at least sound like you are willing to wait for a veredict...

BTW I hope you are wrong.. :sad:

R.Federer
10-05-2005, 01:21 PM
There are some morons that have already beeing doing that for a while :mad:

:topic:
"You can fool some people sometimes, but you can´t fool all the people all the time" Bob Marley
Isn't that by J.F.Kennedy not Bob Marley

Denaon
10-05-2005, 01:22 PM
But don't you see he lied even in that statement? Of course he can have orange juice. He won't test positive from orange juice. It always bothers me when people state an untruth when they are protesting their innocence............

That's the most ridiculous conclusion I've ever read, congratulations star for reading between the lines :rolleyes:
BTW, where are you from? Are you argie? :scratch:

Damita
10-05-2005, 01:22 PM
I agree they're witch-hunters for sure. But those who says L'Equipe is nationalistic that's quite a stupid thing to say because. Will it do them any good to reveal the 2005 Roland Garros tournament is dicredited in a way and his image hurt by all of this?
Then i can tell you they can be equally hard on French "idols" as foreign sportsmen and sports personalities. Ex: Jaquet, Domenech, Virenque, Mauresmo after her doubles final in Wimbledon 2005, Zidane speaking of hearing voives then saying his words were quoted wrong and he was speaking of his brother etc...And all of those are ranked 1st, 2nd on most appreciated sportsmen/women polls etc or apreciated by the French at least... They just suck most of the time that's all. Like anything related to sports coverage in France. Sports show are very poor. Sports coverage is getting better but that's still far from being well enough. They've got good debate show, good culture stuff and all that but sport? There is a lot of progress to be made there (i've lived there since a little more than a decade so i begin to know it...). :(
note to Jim Jones>> see? that's what i was telling you in my PM.

They're not nationalistic, they've criticized lots of French sportsmen or influent person in sports. What they did to Jacquet in 1997-98 was absolutely disgusting, and that's why when our soccer team won the world cup he still decided to quit, cuz he'd been their fav target for long enough :sad:
They criticized Virenque too (that guy was such a liar, they would not have been nice to him just because he was French and because a lot of French ppl liked him! :p).
The story with Mauresmo and the doubles was about her partying and not talking it too seriously, etc. She denied it in Tennis Magazine.

They really don't search to protect French sportsmen.
And yes, they can really write crappy things sometimes. :retard:

But those kinds of stories mentionned above aren't serious issues. Mauresmo partying... so what? The Russian press is always relating similar stories about Safin, he can live with it... the case of Jacquet is more serious, because they discredited his ability to rule the team and they criticized his personality... but again, it hurt him of course, but it's not as serious as a doping allegation!

They wouldn't write on a doping case without serious and convincing info IMO. Otherwise it's defamation, and they'd be in trouble.

Gonzalo81
10-05-2005, 01:23 PM
:topic:
"You can fool some people sometimes, but you can´t fool all the people all the time" Bob Marley
Isn't that by J.F.Kennedy not Bob Marley

I really don´t know if JFk said it first, but Marley uses it the song "Get up"... ;)

Marine
10-05-2005, 01:24 PM
I'd like to understand why so many people critic l'Equipe. They make their job, if they annonced the name of the player that's because they're sure of themself.
When we read some posts, we could think the guilty is the newspaper, not the doped player.
If they have the proof now, it's better than to wait for several months before ATP annonces the name, it's stupid and too long.

R.Federer
10-05-2005, 01:25 PM
I really don´t know if JFk said it first, but Marley uses it the song "Get up"... ;)
No sorry I mean Lincon. One of the famous president of the U.S.A

Gonzalo81
10-05-2005, 01:28 PM
No sorry I mean Lincon. One of the famous president of the U.S.A

no problemo :)

Denaon
10-05-2005, 01:31 PM
I'd like to understand why so many people critic l'Equipe. They make their job, if they annonced the name of the player that's because they're sure of themself.
When we read some posts, we could think the guilty is the newspaper, not the doped player.
If they have the proof now, it's better than to wait for several months before ATP annonces the name, it's stupid and too long.
Which proof? Isn't proof if ATP and ITF announces which player was the one who tested positive and for what substance? Until then, they're just posting speculations.

delsa
10-05-2005, 01:37 PM
I'd like to understand why so many people critic l'Equipe. They make their job, if they annonced the name of the player that's because they're sure of themself.
When we read some posts, we could think the guilty is the newspaper, not the doped player.
If they have the proof now, it's better than to wait for several months before ATP annonces the name, it's stupid and too long.
What's the problem if L'Equipe is criticized? Just defend it when the critics are unjustyfied or explain why they've got a point when the critics are fair since you're one of those who buy it almost every day, no? So you're well placed to judge. Who care if they're criticized? You've got friends working there? You assiociate this newspaper with your whole country and feel attacked personnally? :rolleyes: :confused:

Who cares about them? What's important is the debate not being ruined by absurd statements based on nothing.

NiciSunflower
10-05-2005, 01:37 PM
Which proof? Isn't proof if ATP and ITF announces which player was the one who tested positive and for what substance? Until then, they're just posting speculations.
Actually I doubt if they'd publish something without any proof, that could get very expensive for them. :lol: And as someone said before, they don't have to give us the concrete source of information. It's a journalist's job to investigate and if he or she discovers anything they publish it.

R.Federer
10-05-2005, 01:40 PM
Can someone explain why this drug leads to a life time ban? Are teh bans in proportion to the severity of the drug or something? Or is it because he has previous doping conviction?

quasimodo
10-05-2005, 01:45 PM
Or is it because he has previous doping conviction?

That one.

Denaon
10-05-2005, 01:45 PM
Actually I doubt if they'd publish something without any proof, that could get very expensive for them. :lol: And as someone said before, they don't have to give us the concrete source of information. It's a journalist's job to investigate and if he or she discovers anything they publish it.
Well, there are many reasons why I wouldn't believe media's investigations or publications.
Remember the Brazilian shot in London, media "published" (not investigated in this case) the guy was a threat and that he was shot because he tried to run away. You know how the story ends. It wasn't true.
Sources may not be accurate. Simple.

NiciSunflower
10-05-2005, 01:49 PM
Well, there are many reasons why I wouldn't believe media's investigations or publications.
Remember the Brazilian shot in London, media "published" (not investigated in this case) the guy was a threat and that he was shot because he tried to run away. You know how the story ends. It wasn't true.
Sources may not be accurate. Simple.
True, and I didn't say anything about how reliable their sources are, I can't judge that. But I can't believe they make such a story up just because they're bored.

As for the Brazilian shot in London, the source was the police.

Socket
10-05-2005, 01:50 PM
But don't you see he lied even in that statement? Of course he can have orange juice. He won't test positive from orange juice. It always bothers me when people state an untruth when they are protesting their innocence.

But if it is true that no one from the ATP or ITF has contacted him, I'll take a wait and see position.

I wonder who is leaking the information to l'equipe and why. That would be a very interesting story. L'equipe is in an interesting position of printing a story about an alleged wrongdoer based on information from another wrongdoer. Maybe L'equipe should write a story about why it is that employees in an organization where results of tests are supposed to be kept confidential leak those results to L'equipe on seemingly a regular basis. ;) ;) ;)
I have to wonder if L'equipe is paying for the leaked results. . . they know that they will get great publicity -- and increased sales -- when they link the name of a prominent sports figure to positive results, especially if the player hasn't been afforded the chance to provide information about extenuating circumstances (MD's notes, etc.).

If it's true that the lab violated confidentiality requirements, then Puerta's attorneys should be suing the WADA lab, and WADA should look into whether the lab should keep its credentials, especially if it's the same lab that leaked the allegedly positive Armstrong results.

If the lab's employees aren't following confidentiality regulations, and are taking money to provide the media with results, who knows what they're doing to test samples. They certainly have a financial incentive to manipulate the samples to get false positives.

Marine
10-05-2005, 01:50 PM
What's the problem if L'Equipe is criticized? Just defend it when the critics are unjustyfied or explain why they've got a point when the critics are fair since you're one of those who buy it almost every day, no? So you're well placed to judge. Who care if they're criticized? You've got friends working there? You assiociate this newspaper with your whole country and feel attacked? :rolleyes: :confused:

Who cares about them? What's important is the debate not being ruined by absurd statements based on nothing.

I think it's just an absurdity. And what's the debate ?
They gave the name of the player before ATP, that's all. I didn't like the polemic Armstrong, I didn't agree with the way they managed his case, even if they were right (he's doped, no doubt according to me) and I wrote them, I'm don't try to make the apology of l'Equipe.

Denaon
10-05-2005, 02:01 PM
True, and I didn't say anything about how reliable their sources are, I can't judge that. But I can't believe they make such a story up just because they're bored.

Boredom and justice will never the reason for any media publication, MONEY is the main reason. You know what they say, good news don't sell.
I'm not saying L'Equipe is posting crap, cause I cannot prove it, however I will wait till the official announcement. I, obviously, trust in Mariano.

quasimodo
10-05-2005, 02:02 PM
I have to wonder if L'equipe is paying for the leaked results. . . they know that they will get great publicity -- and increased sales -- when they link the name of a prominent sports figure to positive results, especially if the player hasn't been afforded the chance to provide information about extenuating circumstances (MD's notes, etc.).

If it's true that the lab violated confidentiality requirements, then Puerta's attorneys should be suing the WADA lab, and WADA should look into whether the lab should keep its credentials, especially if it's the same lab that leaked the allegedly positive Armstrong results.

If the lab's employees aren't following confidentiality regulations, and are taking money to provide the media with results, who knows what they're doing to test samples. They certainly have a financial incentive to manipulate the samples to get false positives.

I totally concur with that. L'Equipe's making a big scoop out of it is likely to screw the procedure if Puerta is really guilty.

ys
10-05-2005, 02:03 PM
If true, Argentina has a major problem.. With two Top 10 players suspended or banned within few months the image of Argentinian tennis will be really damaged..

If true, I wonder what would Davydenko say.. It's not some mickey mouse tournament where it happened. Losing a Slam semifinal in five sets to potential cheater must really suck.. That's why the clay as a surface became quite discredited, as it has become about who can run longer and faster, not who can hit the ball harder and more accurate. The surface is provoking its specialists for cheating..

avocadoe
10-05-2005, 02:05 PM
I wondered about won't even drink OJ, too. Of course drinking too much of it turned Patty Schnyder mad, or madder, for a while :)

avocadoe
10-05-2005, 02:06 PM
How come they never catch any women?

R.Federer
10-05-2005, 02:09 PM
How come they never catch any women?
Short, best of 3 matches. Not too much energe-giving-dope needed ;)

cecilija
10-05-2005, 02:09 PM
yeah remember the journalist who said volandri was the new palermo winer :tape: :lol: even that journalist published that at the same time the final was beeing played :rolls: :haha:

Well, there are many reasons why I wouldn't believe media's investigations or publications.
Remember the Brazilian shot in London, media "published" (not investigated in this case) the guy was a threat and that he was shot because he tried to run away. You know how the story ends. It wasn't true.
Sources may not be accurate. Simple.

R.Federer
10-05-2005, 02:11 PM
yeah remember the journalist who said volandri was the new palermo winer :tape: :lol: even that journalist published that at the same time the final was beeing played :rolls: :haha:

and few days ago, the jounrallist who says it is Mariano Hood. I hope Hood is pursuing that journalist now for discredit

ys
10-05-2005, 02:13 PM
and few days ago, the jounrallist who says it is Mariano Hood. I hope Hood is pursuing that journalist now for discredit

So the nationality was rigth, even the first name was right.. not much of an error then..

NiciSunflower
10-05-2005, 02:13 PM
Boredom and justice will never the reason for any media publication, MONEY is the main reason. You know what they say, good news don't sell.
I'm not saying L'Equipe is posting crap, cause I cannot prove it, however I will wait till the official announcement. I, obviously, trust in Mariano.
Of course, do that. Guess, you got me wrong, I didn't accuse him of taking anything. I was only saying you can't blame L'Equipe for publishing a story as they will have sources, whether they're reliable or not. :)

Whistleway
10-05-2005, 02:16 PM
There is a non-tennis thread for Lance Armstrong and his doping allegations.

you thread jerk!!

R.Federer
10-05-2005, 02:16 PM
So the nationality was rigth, even the first name was right.. not much of an error then..
Tell that to Hood and lets see..

Its like printing "Queen Elizabeth has an affair with two men outside her marriage" and then retraction "I meant Queen Elizabeth No. 1 not current one, sorry just a mistake" :)

Hood deserves an apology. I did not know who he is before this allegation, and now I will remember him in connection with doping allegation

Denaon
10-05-2005, 02:19 PM
Of course, do that. Guess, you got me wrong, I didn't accuse him of taking anything. I was only saying you can't blame L'Equipe for publishing a story as they will have sources, whether they're reliable or not. :)
I know what you meant, it's just that what you said I could answer to express my point of view :cool: :yeah:

ys
10-05-2005, 02:20 PM
Tell that to Hood and lets see..

Its like printing "Queen Elizabeth has an affair with two men outside her marriage" and then retraction "I meant Queen Elizabeth No. 1 not current one, sorry just a mistake" :)

Hood deserves an apology. I did not know who he is before this allegation, and now I will remember him in connection with doping allegation


How do you know? They never said that it is only one positive test.. They said "at least one positive test".. Maybe Hood is also tested positive.. We'll see.

onewoman74
10-05-2005, 02:20 PM
I have friend who was in the cycling circuit in Spain...he says that most professionals in that sport are doped up...he says its the way it is and everyone needs to keep up w/ everyone that is doping. He left the sport cause he did want to go down that road of injecting crap in his body to compete. I do believe Lance has doped in the past. People may not want to believe it, but it's a part of cycling...its just the way it is.

NiciSunflower
10-05-2005, 02:21 PM
I know what you meant, it's just that what you said I could answer to express my point of view :cool: :yeah:
alright :)

R.Federer
10-05-2005, 02:22 PM
How do you know? They never said that it is only one positive test.. They said "at least one positive test".. Maybe Hood is also tested positive.. We'll see.
Fair enough. If it comes out that hood is also doped, then no problem from journalist position

I am in favor by the way that all players who take dope, pay the price. I am in favor of a punishment if it is proved that someone take dope (irrespective of whether they take it accidentally, intentionally or whatever). I am only in disfavor of outing someone incorrectly by the media

ys
10-05-2005, 02:23 PM
I have friend who was in the cycling circuit in Spain...he says that most professionals in that sport are doped up...he says its the way it is and everyone needs to keep up w/ everyone that is doping. He left the sport cause he did want to go down that road of injecting crap in his body to compete. I do believe Lance has doped in the past. People may not want to believe it, but it's a part of cycling...its just the way it is.

Exactly. The sport where winning is more connected to a raw physical ability rather then technical excellence will always produce cheaters.. That's why they should ban clay as a surface..

R.Federer
10-05-2005, 02:24 PM
I have friend who was in the cycling circuit in Spain...he says that most professionals in that sport are doped up...he says its the way it is and everyone needs to keep up w/ everyone that is doping. He left the sport cause he did want to go down that road of injecting crap in his body to compete. I do believe Lance has doped in the past. People may not want to believe it, but it's a part of cycling...its just the way it is.
How is it they are never caught? Or you are saying WADA is also involved in covering up in a big conspiracy with all the doping cyclists? I find that very difficult to believe (that so many cyclists are successful in concealing their dope intake), because very few of them have been caught

willie
10-05-2005, 02:25 PM
thats terrible, if its true, he should be retired for life.

NiciSunflower
10-05-2005, 02:25 PM
I have friend who was in the cycling circuit in Spain...he says that most professionals in that sport are doped up...he says its the way it is and everyone needs to keep up w/ everyone that is doping. He left the sport cause he did want to go down that road of injecting crap in his body to compete. I do believe Lance has doped in the past. People may not want to believe it, but it's a part of cycling...its just the way it is.
... which brings me back to my initial statement and to what Michael Stich said last year. He thought it would be naive to believe we could ever get a 100% doping free athletic world, and to create equal opportunities for everybody, which is absolutely necessary, he suggested to make doping legal for any athlete but not without warning them what they do to their health and body. He said it's important to teach young athletes that doping has long term consequences and might lead to death.

star
10-05-2005, 02:30 PM
:topic:
"You can fool some people sometimes, but you can´t fool all the people all the time" Bob Marley
Isn't that by J.F.Kennedy not Bob Marley
The quote is: You can fool all of the people some of the time, and you can fool some of the people all of the time; but you can not fool all the people all the time.

The source: Abraham Lincoln.

alfonsojose
10-05-2005, 02:31 PM
Davenport's toughts about this
http://sports.yahoo.com/ten/news?slug=reu-filderstadtdavenport&prov=reuters&type=lgns

R.Federer
10-05-2005, 02:32 PM
The quote is: You can fool all of the people some of the time, and you can fool some of the people all of the time; but you can not fool all the people all the time.

The source: Abraham Lincoln.

Thank you Star. Yes I later remembered it was another famous U.S. president. I am sure Lincon did not steal it from reggae :)

niko
10-05-2005, 02:35 PM
What was not cited until now, and it is one of the most important things about it is the reason behind this substance to be forbidden. What it does, tennis related? Improves endurance, strenght, muscular explosion?
You know I may sound silly, but I just don't see how you can benefit from using dopes as a tennis player, cycling may be all you do is pedaling, tennis is a different story. I wonder if dope can help Nalbandian to serve better. ;)

star
10-05-2005, 02:35 PM
Thank you Star. Yes I later remembered it was another famous U.S. president. I am sure Lincon did not steal it from reggae :)

Lincoln is one of my favorites. Not least for his great quotes. :)

I was going to say you had the occupation correct! :lol:

star
10-05-2005, 02:37 PM
You know I may sound silly, but I just don't see how you can benefit from using dopes as a tennis player, cycling may be all you do is pedaling, tennis is a different story. I wonder if dope can help Nalbandian to serve better. ;)

Here;s you answer: edurance, strength, recovery

Those things are always important in tennis. Of course, it can't improve a player's strokes, but that isn't all of tennis anyway. It's not billiards.

tennischick
10-05-2005, 02:38 PM
Exactly. The sport where winning is more connected to a raw physical ability rather then technical excellence will always produce cheaters.. That's why they should ban clay as a surface..
:lol: only clay, or also left-handed players on clay :p

i don't know where L'Equipe got its information when the ITF is saying that official results will not be released before late November. it seems to me that this is based on pure speculation. i can imagine a group of journalists sitting around and trying to figure out who is the most likely suspect. Lance won the damn race 7 times? well, he must have doped! Puerta made it all the way to the finals of RG? well it must be him! shitty journalism.

delsa
10-05-2005, 02:39 PM
How is it they are never caught? Or you are saying WADA is also involved in covering up in a big conspiracy with all the doping cyclists? I find that very difficult to believe (that so many cyclists are successful in concealing their dope intake), because very few of them have been caught
Because sadly they're in advance and what they use now will only be detectable in like 5/6 years by the scientists in the anti-doping ranks. :sad: (sorry for the bad English)

NyGeL
10-05-2005, 02:39 PM
bullshit... that medicament didn't make him play better...

NiciSunflower
10-05-2005, 02:39 PM
You know I may sound silly, but I just don't see how you can benefit from using dopes as a tennis player, cycling may be all you do is pedaling, tennis is a different story. I wonder if dope can help Nalbandian to serve better. ;)
As I said before, it doesn't matter if your tennis improves or not, if it's on the index you just should keep away from it.

Of course we could start a discussion on whether certain substances should be revised again and then the index should be reformed. But I guess that's idle. :lol:

ys
10-05-2005, 02:41 PM
:lol: only clay, or also left-handed players on clay :p

You see? You see? Wasn't I right? Left-handed players on clay ... :devil:

tennischick
10-05-2005, 02:44 PM
Here;s you answer: edurance, strength, recovery

Those things are always important in tennis. Of course, it can't improve a player's strokes, but that isn't all of tennis anyway. It's not billiards.
several years ago i was coached by a guy who would insist that tennis was the ONLY clean sport bec doping could not influence tactics and strategy. i wonder what he thinks now.

niko
10-05-2005, 02:45 PM
Here;s you answer: edurance, strength, recovery

Those things are always important in tennis. Of course, it can't improve a player's strokes, but that isn't all of tennis anyway. It's not billiards.
I always thought that tennis is about skills. I think it was last week the funny video of some player at the Challenger event, the poor guy should start using dopes to look better. ;)

delsa
10-05-2005, 02:46 PM
:lol: only clay, or also left-handed players on clay :p

i don't know where L'Equipe got its information when the ITF is saying that official results will not be released before late November. it seems to me that this is based on pure speculation. i can imagine a group of journalists sitting around and trying to figure out who is the most likely suspect. Lance won the damn race 7 times? well, he must have doped! Puerta made it all the way to the finals of RG? well it must be him! shitty journalism.
Leave the subject of cycling away from this please because this must be the most rotten sport ever and of them all so finding a cyclist is doped today is almost normal sadly.

About the source they just say: "an analysis and cross-analysis made by a French anti-doping lab in Châtenay-Malabry" :shrug:

Papakori
10-05-2005, 02:47 PM
:eek:

I hope he is innocent,

I am disapointed if it is true

michelleg
10-05-2005, 02:59 PM
Actually looked in the pharmacy section today and there isnt one product available over the counter that has etilefrine in its ingredient list.

Rationally, an asthmatic with flu would be treated here with albuterol sulfate administered via nebulizer. And guess what, albuterol is not on the banned substance list. However, normal healthy adults with flu are generally told to tough it out and not prescribed medications for flu. (or advised to get a vaccine prior to flu season)

Not being familiar with French otc or commonly prescribed meds, just wondering if a.) etilefrine is available in over the counter flu meds or b.) commonly prescribed for flu in France. Anyone from France care to elucidate/educate us, as commonly prescribed meds differ throughout the world......

LLeytonRules
10-05-2005, 03:01 PM
Mariano Puerta is a doper, case closed!I will not hold judgement, of course he is gonna denied it.I hope they punish him to the maximum penalty.Tennis needs to have strict laws, so these players wont do this!

Lance Armstrong is a jerk, i dont like him.Marion Jones is a cheat as well.

lorenz
10-05-2005, 03:13 PM
We will see what happens.
I hope Mariano is innocent.

star
10-05-2005, 03:19 PM
I always thought that tennis is about skills. I think it was last week the funny video of some player at the Challenger event, the poor guy should start using dopes to look better. ;)

Of course there is skill in tennis, but when you look at the tennis players, don't you see how much energy they expend, how physical the sport is?

NiciSunflower
10-05-2005, 03:19 PM
Actually looked in the pharmacy section today and there isnt one product available over the counter that has etilefrine in its ingredient list.

Rationally, an asthmatic with flu would be treated here with albuterol sulfate administered via nebulizer. And guess what, albuterol is not on the banned substance list. However, normal healthy adults with flu are generally told to tough it out and not prescribed medications for flu. (or advised to get a vaccine prior to flu season)

Not being familiar with French otc or commonly prescribed meds, just wondering if a.) etilefrine is available in over the counter flu meds or b.) commonly prescribed for flu in France. Anyone from France care to elucidate/educate us, as commonly prescribed meds differ throughout the world......
Etilefrine isn't used against the flu, but low blood pressure combined with slow heartbeat. It's available without prescription in Germany, I don't know about France. But my mother had to take medication that was with etilefrine last year. It's effects are similar to those of adrenaline. The heartbeat rises, the circulation is increased and therefore of course the muscles get more oxygen.

onewoman74
10-05-2005, 03:20 PM
How is it they are never caught? Or you are saying WADA is also involved in covering up in a big conspiracy with all the doping cyclists? I find that very difficult to believe (that so many cyclists are successful in concealing their dope intake), because very few of them have been caught

I've had this discussion w/ my friend(who's a Brit). I'm not sure why some people get caught and others don't. He says he watched people whom he trained w/ inject themselves w/ substances...he absolutely loves the sport, he knew sooner or later he would have to take substances to get to that elite level. He saw the toll it would take on his body by watching others in the sport and decided to leave the sport all together.

onewoman74
10-05-2005, 03:35 PM
Etilefrine isn't used against the flu, but low blood pressure combined with slow heartbeat. It's available without prescription in Germany, I don't know about France. But my mother had to take medication that was with etilefrine last year. It's effects are similar to those of adrenaline. The heartbeat rises, the circulation is increased and therefore of course the muscles get more oxygen.

meaning you can last longer in a five set marathon match or matches over a two week period

michelleg
10-05-2005, 03:35 PM
Etilefrine isn't used against the flu, but low blood pressure combined with slow heartbeat. It's available without prescription in Germany, I don't know about France. But my mother had to take medication that was with etilefrine last year. It's effects are similar to those of adrenaline. The heartbeat rises, the circulation is increased and therefore of course the muscles get more oxygen.

Appreciate the information, was just trying to figure out the whole "flu med" excuse in my head. Just wanted to know if any flu meds actually had that ingredient in them.

NiciSunflower
10-05-2005, 03:39 PM
meaning you can last longer in a five set marathon match or matches over a two week period
indeed

NiciSunflower
10-05-2005, 03:41 PM
Appreciate the information, was just trying to figure out the whole "flu med" excuse in my head. Just wanted to know if any flu meds actually had that ingredient in them.
I don't know of any flu meds using etilefrine. :shrug: But I guess you can't use it for someone who's feverish. I mean your heartbeat rises if you are feverish and you wouldn't prescribe something that pushes the heartbeat even higher, would you?

hitchhiker
10-05-2005, 03:41 PM
he was under suspicion ever since he won a doubles grass match (against opponents that werent animals) in DC shortly after RG

Denaon
10-05-2005, 03:45 PM
he was under suspicion ever since he won a doubles grass match (against opponents that werent animals) in DC shortly after RG
says who?

Phunkadelicious
10-05-2005, 03:46 PM
hopefully its not true that Puerta doped, but if it is than he should be banned for life and stripped of his runner-up trophy and all the prize money he won at the FO and since, IMHO
:)

hitchhiker
10-05-2005, 03:49 PM
at FO, roddick was robbed. he had that bottom half under control before puerta decided to cheat.

Also warehouse drug clear out on the puerta sub forum right here on mtf. hurry before they flush it all down the toilet.

R.Federer
10-05-2005, 03:51 PM
at FO, roddick was robbed. he had that bottom half under control before puerta decided to cheat.
but andi did not even get past Chucho well before he would meet puerta

Deea
10-05-2005, 03:51 PM
I'm truly sorry for Mariano if all this proves to be true...I mean I never was a big fan of him but...it's a real pity that it has to get to life bans...and I'm also very sorry we're talking about another Argentinian. Wish he were from a different country. This new scandal makes all the Argentinians look bad...even though it shouldn't!!!! :fiery:

Horatio Caine
10-05-2005, 03:52 PM
at FO, roddick was robbed. he had that bottom half under control before puerta decided to cheat.

Also warehouse drug clear out on the puerta sub forum right here on mtf. hurry before they flush it all down the toilet.

Hitch - please don't go backwards. You were doing so well before...

Denaon
10-05-2005, 03:53 PM
at FO, roddick was robbed. he had that bottom half under control before puerta decided to cheat.

Also warehouse drug clear out on the puerta sub forum right here on mtf. hurry before they flush it all down the toilet.
:lol: Do you really know what you're talking about :haha:
How come Roddick was robbed by Puerta? Please delight me with the details........

hitchhiker
10-05-2005, 03:55 PM
:lol: Do you really know what you're talking about :haha:
How come Roddick was robbed by Puerta? Please delight me with the details........

obviously roddick did the noble thing and tanked against acasuso as a protest once he found out his half of the draw was infested with drug cheats.

Drimal
10-05-2005, 03:56 PM
I really dislike these kind of news! :eek: :(

onewoman74
10-05-2005, 03:58 PM
I'm truly sorry for Mariano if all this proves to be true...I mean I never was a big fan of him but...it's a real pity that it has to get to life bans...and I'm also very sorry we're talking about another Argentinian. Wish he were from a different country. This new scandal makes all the Argentinians look bad...even though it shouldn't!!!! :fiery:

Well, Nalby seems like the most sane of all the Argentine players...he decided not to put his career on the line...he's NEVER been caught in a scandal...maybe they need to take a cue from Nalby.

Denaon
10-05-2005, 03:59 PM
obviously roddick did the noble thing and tanked against acasuso as a protest once he found out his half of the draw was infested with drug cheats.
Dude, you don't need to get drugs (wherever you say you might get'em), your brain is already burned out, drugs have nothing to make effect on :rolleyes:

Black Adam
10-05-2005, 04:04 PM
Wow thnx Hitchhiker for putting some humour in this thread :yeah:
I just pray that Mariano won't be banned for life............is it true if guilty he would lose all he won at FO this year? That would make Davydenko finalist :shrug: I am totally lost :confused:

revolution
10-05-2005, 04:05 PM
My thoughts on this is that unless proven guilty, he is still innocent.

Of course, if he is guilty then my opinion may differ. But for now, he's innocent.

If this is another stupid farce with cough medicine or something then the ATP deserve a slap.

hitchhiker
10-05-2005, 04:08 PM
Dude, you don't need to get drugs (wherever you say you might get'em), your brain is already burned out, drugs have nothing to make effect on :rolleyes:

i dont have the brains to compete with puerta thats for sure.

lets see....this guy goes to houston, match fixes against melzer and then goes to French Open filled up with drugs.

this is a real life tennis godfather, this is the don of the tennis underworld.

what other crimes of puerta will come out? blackmail, prostitution? is this why coria was grabbing his balls in DC......hmmm

cecilija
10-05-2005, 04:09 PM
:worship: :haha: :rolls: that was funnier than every joke made by hitchiker

Dude, you don't need to get drugs (wherever you say you might get'em), your brain is already burned out, drugs have nothing to make effect on :rolleyes:

Rosa Luxembourg
10-05-2005, 04:13 PM
Let us just wait and see what ATP/ITF says. The least we can do is give Mariano the benefit of the doubt until the time when and if there is an *official* annoucement.




Isn't it the benefit of the doubt usually associated with a first time offenders?

hitchhiker
10-05-2005, 04:17 PM
Isn't it the benefit of the doubt usually associated with a first time offenders?

puerta was clean last week, 6-1 6-0 loss to bjorkman

Deea
10-05-2005, 04:19 PM
Well, Nalby seems like the most sane of all the Argentine players...he decided not to put his career on the line...he's NEVER been caught in a scandal...maybe they need to take a cue from Nalby.

True...hopefully he keeps it up and away from drugs and scandals...Oh, and don't forget Acasuso! He was never in a doping scandal either...if I recall properly! :angel:

Denaon
10-05-2005, 04:19 PM
Isn't it the benefit of the doubt usually associated with a first time offenders?
Can you tell for sure that Puerta tested positive again?
Neither of us can tell, let's wait for ATP and/or ITF official announcements, hopefully after this publishment it will be sooner than we think.

Bilbo
10-05-2005, 04:20 PM
cya mariano. have a good life.

ys
10-05-2005, 04:20 PM
Honestly, as much as I like Argentina.. if this is true, Argentina should be relegated from Davis Cup world group too.. What is happening with Argentinian players is simply a disgrace..

Horatio Caine
10-05-2005, 04:21 PM
Etilefrine isn't used against the flu, but low blood pressure combined with slow heartbeat. It's available without prescription in Germany, I don't know about France. But my mother had to take medication that was with etilefrine last year. It's effects are similar to those of adrenaline. The heartbeat rises, the circulation is increased and therefore of course the muscles get more oxygen.

I have asthma and it gets particularly bad when i have a heavy cold or flu. Breathing is tough enough in a normal environment, but when you get sick like that, it is very hard to catch breath even walking up a small flight of stairs.

Could Puerta have taken etilefrine innocently? I think so...he could have taken salbutamol to ease the breathing difficulties...but that wouldn't clear up the problem completely and the relieving effects, as I have discovered myself, are very short-term (about 5-10 minutes). If he took etilefrine, this could have kept his circulation flowing better and for much longer than taking salbutamol every 10 minutes...so it is possible he did it innocently?

Either way, if the reports are true, he was an ass for not checking the "ingredients" especially as he says that he has to be "so careful." But I still think he could have done it innocently at least.

BUT - there are normally external symptoms when someone has flu. As he took this banned substance during the FO, he must have been ill during the French Open. Did he seem to be suffering at all?

Rosa Luxembourg
10-05-2005, 04:22 PM
puerta was clean last week, 6-1 6-0 loss to bjorkman

To be fair, he's clay courter, who barely won matches on other surfaces, so no surprise that Bjorkman (a top 10 player once) beat him. ;)

Horatio Caine
10-05-2005, 04:25 PM
This new scandal makes all the Argentinians look bad...even though it shouldn't!!!! :fiery:

Well, if he is proven guilty then there is no reason why the Argentine tennis players shouldn't look bad....the majority of their top crop has been busted.

But I'm assuming he is innocent for the time being anyway...

AgassiFan
10-05-2005, 04:26 PM
I never quite understood why the anti-French jokes are so popular on British and on American tv.


Maybe because the French are the snooty, smelly surrender monkeys?

Or so the theory goes, anyway.

oneandonlyhsn
10-05-2005, 04:29 PM
Maybe because the French are the snooty, smelly surrender monkeys?

Or so the theory goes, anyway.

:rolleyes: Did you hear that on CNN or SNL

Rosa Luxembourg
10-05-2005, 04:31 PM
Maybe because the French are the snooty, smelly surrender monkeys?

Or so the theory goes, anyway.


After reading this, I started to appreciate G.Bush so much more...

Gonzalo81
10-05-2005, 04:34 PM
This new scandal makes all the Argentinians look bad...even though it shouldn't!!!! :fiery:

That´s the biggest mistake everyone is making.....the other argies are tested too, so if they don´t test positive they are like any other player.....this is not about nacionality, it´s an individual sport....so it really shouldn´t make other argies look bad....

That said I really hope Mariano is clean... ;)

delsa
10-05-2005, 04:35 PM
My thoughts on this is that unless proven guilty, he is still innocent.

Of course, if he is guilty then my opinion may differ. But for now, he's innocent.

If this is another stupid farce with cough medicine or something then the ATP deserve a slap.
I agree. :yeah:

LaTenista
10-05-2005, 04:36 PM
At this rate, between all these doping cases and the doubles controversy, the ATP is going for a new low by becoming less credible than even professional wrestling and the NHL. :cuckoo:

I can't quite wrap my head 'round this quite yet, but the impact of this, irregardless of whether it's true or not, could be huge. Puerta is one of the guys still in the running to possibly qualify or be the alternate at Shanghai.

:sad: I enjoyed Puerta's run at the RG so much.

delsa
10-05-2005, 04:37 PM
Honestly, as much as I like Argentina.. if this is true, Argentina should be relegated from Davis Cup world group too.. What is happening with Argentinian players is simply a disgrace..
No way!
Are you sure you like Argentina? :rolleyes:

Gonzalo81
10-05-2005, 04:39 PM
Honestly, as much as I like Argentina.. if this is true, Argentina should be relegated from Davis Cup world group too.. What is happening with Argentinian players is simply a disgrace..

This is the most idiotic thing I´ve heard in a long time.....nothing else to say.....:retard:

delsa
10-05-2005, 04:41 PM
Maybe because the French are the snooty, smelly surrender monkeys?

Or so the theory goes, anyway.
As it said here: "Maybe [they] surrendered when [they] couldn't do otherwise but [they] never flee" ;)
Smelly :rolleyes: As it's said there : "you've got the nose to close to your own mouth" ;)
Snooty: :rolleyes: there are worst cases and you can't say that of a whole nation. ;)

Oh and i guess you're American? If not sorry for the mistake. That would mean your country hasn't known until very recently any attack on its home soil (and it was by terrorists, not a nation and despite how tragic it was the casualties were "only" of more than 3 thousands deaths. Pearl Harbour was tragic too but it was very far from the American continent and there were no civilians involved). Not the case of the French, ancesters the Franks, and further back in time the Gauls who were attacked over and over again by continental neighbours torough history. Some nuancing and looking at your own situation before seeing the mote in your brother's eye is maybe needed here. ;)

You'd better thank me, you Frenchies! :devil:

victory1
10-05-2005, 04:46 PM
Contrary to what Lance claims (and that you seemed to have believed), L'Equipe is not a tabloid. They have never accused someone of doping without serious evidence.

I know this is not about Lance, but that newspaper has no credibility! :rolleyes: Why accuse Lance of a positive test result from 1997, why not earlier! ;)

ys
10-05-2005, 04:49 PM
No way!
Are you sure you like Argentina? :rolleyes:

Sure.. Been there.. Have friends there.. But repeated multiple offence from many players from the same country should find a punishment as severe as it gets.. If the same happens to my Russia, I'll say the same.. The sport must be clean, otherwise it makes no sense..

R.Federer
10-05-2005, 04:50 PM
Could Puerta have taken etilefrine innocently? I think so...he could have taken salbutamol to ease the breathing difficulties...but that wouldn't clear up the problem completely and the relieving effects, as I have discovered myself, are very short-term (about 5-10 minutes). If he took etilefrine, this could have kept his circulation flowing better and for much longer than taking salbutamol every 10 minutes...so it is possible he did it innocently?

Certainly it is possible. But intent is irrelevant in doping matters, so it will make no worthwhile difference whether it was intentional or accidental. I just hope this whole thing is baseless after all

No player who has been caught with dope in their body has said that they took it intentionally. Each one has said they don't know how it got there, they thought it was fine to take, ATP gave it (true with Rusedski), someone laced their drink, and they "never knowingly" took a performance enhancing drug

ys
10-05-2005, 04:54 PM
Certainly it is possible. But intent is irrelevant in doping matters, so it will make no worthwhile difference whether it was intentional or accidental. I just hope this whole thing is baseless after all

No player who has been caught with dope in their body has said that they took it intentionally. Each one has said they don't know how it got there, they thought it was fine to take, someone laced their drink, and "never knowingly" took a performance enhancing drug

"Your Honour, I am innocent, I didn't kill the victim. She carried the knife in her hand, slipped on the floor and fell on the knife"

"But the victim has 37 wounds"..

"sure.. After she fell on the knife, she jumped up , slipped on the floor again, and fell on the knife again, and so on, 37 times.."

KalleOnAir
10-05-2005, 05:00 PM
OMG Mariano :(
i hope this is not the truth

delsa
10-05-2005, 05:00 PM
I know this is not about Lance, but that newspaper has no credibility! :rolleyes: Why accuse Lance of a positive test result from 1997, why not earlier! ;)
Because EPO couldn't be detected earlier. Are you sure you know this "case" well?

NiciSunflower
10-05-2005, 05:01 PM
I have asthma and it gets particularly bad when i have a heavy cold or flu. Breathing is tough enough in a normal environment, but when you get sick like that, it is very hard to catch breath even walking up a small flight of stairs.


I'm wondering what that has to do with my post, but I assume you want to say that you get etilefrine in asthma meds in GB?! As far as I know you don't get them here. They prescibe either salmeterole or formoterole and of course the classic cortisone.

NiciSunflower
10-05-2005, 05:05 PM
Certainly it is possible. But intent is irrelevant in doping matters, so it will make no worthwhile difference whether it was intentional or accidental. I just hope this whole thing is baseless after all

No player who has been caught with dope in their body has said that they took it intentionally. Each one has said they don't know how it got there, they thought it was fine to take, ATP gave it (true with Rusedski), someone laced their drink, and they "never knowingly" took a performance enhancing drug
I back that statement about intention.

Can you remember the nandrolone case of German runner Dieter Baumann? :lol: He argued he didn't take it on purpose and after they'd found the stuff in his toothpaste, he said someone must have broken into his house and injected it into the tube. :rolleyes: For sure...

R.Federer
10-05-2005, 05:07 PM
I back that statement about intention.

Can you remember the nandrolone case of German runner Dieter Baumann? :lol: He argued he didn't take it on purpose and after they'd found the stuff in his toothpaste, he said someone must have broken into his house and injected it into the tube. :rolleyes: For sure...

No I did not hear this about the runner. That is a unique excuse!

But honestly is it enough to have it in your toot paste? If you do not digest it or get it into your blood, this can still help?

Clara Bow
10-05-2005, 05:10 PM
But honestly is it enough to have it in your toot paste?

Because I have the mentality of a five year old child- I have to giggle at your typo. :lol:

MisterQ
10-05-2005, 05:10 PM
A friend of mine just took a drug test as part of a job application. She tested positive for opiates! She could not see how it was possible, until she figured out that she had had a poppy seed bagel that morning. She called a guy at the testing center and he said, yes, that could explain the result.

My point? I'm not sure. Just thought it was an interesting story. :lol: (Whether such a thing could happen with the drugs that pro-athletes are tested for is beyond my knowledge).

Lee
10-05-2005, 05:12 PM
A friend of mine just took a drug test as part of a job application. She tested positive for opiates! She could not see how it was possible, until she figured out that she had had a poppy seed bagel that morning. She called a guy at the testing center and he said, yes, that could explain the result.

My point? I'm not sure. Just thought it was an interesting story. :lol: (Whether such a thing could happen with the drugs that pro-athletes are tested for is beyond my knowledge).

:o No wonder poppy seed bagels are soooooo popular. ;)

MisterQ
10-05-2005, 05:12 PM
Because I have the mentality of a five year old child- I have to giggle at your typo. :lol:

As one with a four year old mentality, I giggle with you. :lol:

NiciSunflower
10-05-2005, 05:13 PM
No I did not hear this about the runner. That is a unique excuse!

But honestly is it enough to have it in your toot paste? If you do not digest it or get it into your blood, this can still help?
They found it in his body, but he insisted on not having taken anything. No intention, you see? He defended himself with the stranger and his toothpaste strategy. :lol:

Lee
10-05-2005, 05:13 PM
As one with a four year old mentality, I giggle with you. :lol:

I want to giggle too but my stomach muscle hurt :sad: blame on all those sit ups I was forced to do by my TKD master. :sad:

Gonzalo81
10-05-2005, 05:14 PM
A friend of mine just took a drug test as part of a job application. She tested positive for opiates! She could not see how it was possible, until she figured out that she had had a poppy seed bagel that morning. She called a guy at the testing center and he said, yes, that could explain the result.

My point? I'm not sure. Just thought it was an interesting story. :lol: (Whether such a thing could happen with the drugs that pro-athletes are tested for is beyond my knowledge).

:topic:

Same thing happened to Elaine Benes at a Seinfeld episode :rolls:

hablovah19
10-05-2005, 05:14 PM
:banghead:

NiciSunflower
10-05-2005, 05:16 PM
A friend of mine just took a drug test as part of a job application. She tested positive for opiates! She could not see how it was possible, until she figured out that she had had a poppy seed bagel that morning. She called a guy at the testing center and he said, yes, that could explain the result.

My point? I'm not sure. Just thought it was an interesting story. :lol: (Whether such a thing could happen with the drugs that pro-athletes are tested for is beyond my knowledge).
I've heard about poppy seeds and their chilling effect, nevertheless they still sell it in schools. I wonder if that's a way of dealing with attention deficit disorder. :scratch:

Castafiore
10-05-2005, 05:17 PM
I know this is not about Lance, but that newspaper has no credibility! :rolleyes: Why accuse Lance of a positive test result from 1997, why not earlier! ;)
Lance did not compete in the 1997 Tour de France.

Thread about Lance: Armstrong thread (http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=50183&highlight=Armstrong)


Can you remember the nandrolone case of German runner Dieter Baumann? He argued he didn't take it on purpose and after they'd found the stuff in his toothpaste, he said someone must have broken into his house and injected it into the tube. For sure...
:lol:
They found EPO (and lots of it, apparently...enough to charge him with 'drugs dealing') beside the bed of Frank Vandenbroucke (cyclist or rather 'pathetic excuse of a cyclist') when the police did a search. Frank's excuse: it was for my dogs. Yeah, right.
There's now a sad, sad doping trial here against a number of people (Museeuw, cyclist) and the evidence is piling up but good old Museeuw keeps on denying (even if they found EPO and Aranesp in his possession).
Some of these excuses are fantastic to read.

On the other hand, Filip Van Meirhaeghe (mountainbike) was tested positive and very soon after that (a couple of days later), he went public and admitted guilt and accepted his punishment.

Lee
10-05-2005, 05:19 PM
I've heard about poppy seeds and their chilling effect, nevertheless they still sell it in schools. I wonder if that's a way of dealing with attention deficit disorder. :scratch:

ADD or ADHD needs a different kind of stimulant :p