Masters Series Madrid Dumps Doubles [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Masters Series Madrid Dumps Doubles

Lee
10-04-2005, 08:54 PM
http://www.sportsmediainc.net/tennisweek/index.cfm?func=showarticle&newsid=14004&bannerregion=

By Richard Pagliaro
10/05/2005


Prominent doubles players took their case against the ATP to court in a lawsuit filed last month. Today, an ATP Masters Series tournament announced it will keep doubles players off the court this month.



The Tennis Masters Series-Madrid, the same event that turned the court into a catwalk in hiring models to work as ball girls last year, announced today it will not host a doubles competition at the tournament until "the antitrust lawsuit brought by 45 doubles players against the ATP and its Board of Directors Members is withdrawn or resolved."

Tennis Masters Series-Madrid tournament organizers said today if the lawsuit is not resolved by the start of the tournament on October 17th "the organization of the Masters Series Madrid will cancel the doubles competition and will donate 50 percent of the doubles prize money ($202,726) to the ATP Player's Retirement Plan."

"We believe that the ATP new rules will help the doubles grow and take this great competition out of the dark hole is in at the moment," Gerard Tsobanian, General Manager at the Masters Series Madrid said in a statement. "Doubles matches at ATP tournaments around the world go on unnoticed, attracting very small crowds. By making it more accessible to top singles players, with a new format and short matches we feel that this competition will become more attractive to the fans. We consider that the lawsuit filed by these 45 doubles players makes no sense and therefore it is not coherent for us to organize the doubles draw this year in Madrid with these same players while they are in the middle of a lawsuit against the ATP, of which we are members."

It is the latest shot in an escalating high-stakes shootout between doubles players and ATP tournaments.

On September 1st, several highly-ranked doubles players joined forces as plaintiffs in filing a lawsuit in a Southern District Texas Federal Court against the ATP and members of its board of directors. Grand Slam doubles champions Mark Knowles, Bob Bryan, Mike Bryan, Mahesh Bhupathi and Jonas Bjorkman are among the players voicing their opposition to the ATP's new experimental scoring system that shrinks doubles sets to five games rather than six with a tiebreaker at 4-4. Additionally, an ATP initiative proposed to go into effect in 2008 would permit only the top six to eight doubles teams entry into tournaments, while denying lower-ranked doubles players entry into in tournaments if they did not also qualify for the singles draws.

The players' lawsuit alleges that the ATP's proposed experimental efforts to "enhance" doubles competition is in fact a concerted effort by tournament directors to diminish and eventually eliminate doubles players' ability to gain entry into main draws as a cost-cutting measure to save the tournament's money. The international law firm of Fulbright & Jaworski L.L.P. and the Houston-based firm of Ellis, Carstarphen, Dougherty & Goldenthal P.C. filed suit on behalf of many of the top doubles players, identifying them in court papers as a "submarket" of the men's professonal tour and alleging that the ATP's directors have "violated their fiduciary obligations to the players by enacting rules that prevent doubles players from competing, contrary to the express wishes of the players." Furthermore, the suit seeks an injunction to "stop the ATP's and its directors' alleged unlawful and anti competitive conduct against athletes who excel in doubles. The players charge the ATP and its directors with antitrust violations and breaches of fiduciary duties.

Tennis Week has contacted the ATP for further comment. Today's announcement raises the question: does the Madrid tournament have the authority to cancel the doubles event under existing ATP rules?

Rule 2.03 in the 2005 Official ATP Rulebook states: "Any ATP or Challenger Series Tournament that defaults in payment of prize money or tournament fee or any other payments due to the ATP may have its membership status (sanctioned status if a Challenger Series Tournament) changed subject to ATP Bylaws."

Because many of the top doubles players do not play singles events, they contend the proposed enhancements would effectively eradicate several doubles specialists and jeopardize the integrity of the game.

"There is no credibility left for the ATP," said Knowles, who partnered Daniel Nestor to beat the Bryan brothers, 6-3, 6-4, and win the 2004 Madrid title. "They are basically trying to annihilate one form of the game, which is doubles."

Essentially, the players are suing the very union that was created to represent them and believe the ATP is placing the interests of tournament directors above its own players when it comes to doubles. It is an economic issue in that tournament directors want to save money, while players want to preserve their jobs. Knowles said doubles players have made repeated concessions over the years and have come to the conclusion that taking their case to court — and making a case for preserving jobs for doubles players through the media to the tennis fan base — is the only recourse to spare doubles specialists a death sentence.

"My stance on it is we have to fight," Knowles said. "This time when the tournament directors were shooting they wanted to see how many bullets were in the gun. When I discussed the 2008 initiatives (at a recent ATP meeting) half to three quarters of the tournament directors in the room had no idea what I was referring to. I really get the feeling there are two or three people totally speaking for the bunch."

In an interview with Tennis Week conducted during the U.S. Open, recently-appointed ATP President, Europe Horst Klosterkemper, said doubles does not draw the crowds that singles does and suggested doubles controversy, rather than competition, is what commands coverage from the media.

"You tennis people have to admit that the fish and not the angler has to enjoy the bait," Klosterkemper told Tennis Week. "Daily newspapers only cover controversy, not the game of doubles. It really hurt my heart to see at a Grand Slam doubles event when 90 percent of the people did not stay for the men’s doubles finals [this year's match at Roland Garros where the No. 3 seed team of Jonas Bjorkman/Max Mirnyi defeated the No. 2 seed Bryan brothers] after the women’s semifinals and half of the people in stands at Roland Garros left after first set. The doubles issue has been on the table nine years and it has not been fixed in a way that enhances situation of doubles at all. It came to a point where we had to make a decision where we had to enhance the product of doubles."

The talk of "enhancement" has now escalated to an act of elimination in Madrid.


:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Alvarillo
10-04-2005, 08:57 PM
:eek:
i want to see doubles matches!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

Lee
10-04-2005, 08:59 PM
:eek:
i want to see doubles matches!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

Start sending e-mails to the tournament directors ;)

Alvarillo
10-04-2005, 09:03 PM
e-mails
prensa@tennis-masters-madrid.com
operaciones@tennis-masters-madrid.com

JonBcn
10-04-2005, 09:04 PM
Wow...we've gone from forcing players to play jokeshop tennis to blackmailing them to play. Truly appalling; I'd love for people to boycott the tournament.

s.m.
10-04-2005, 09:07 PM
this is bullshit
plain and simple
models yes, doubles no
and we are talking about tennis right
f... that

it´a all about money
ban doubles which you don´t even promote
games to 5, and no ad rule should promote doubles to masses
idiots

El Legenda
10-04-2005, 09:13 PM
this is terrible but ATP is a buisness.

Timariot
10-04-2005, 09:16 PM
Madrid TMS with their model ballgirls is a sorry joke of a tournament anyway, held there only because former and more prestigeus Stuttgart TMS died off. I predict a short and gloomy future for this tournament.

s.m.
10-04-2005, 09:25 PM
this is terrible but ATP is a buisness.

i piss on their leading of the game
first the shit with doping, now this
i soon expect destruction of singles
games played to 30, sets to 2 games
but in the same time some shitty tennis players are throwing matches so their familes and friend could earn big money on betting
deal with that you idiots from atp
atp is destroyng the game with their complete lack of vision, or sense of what is right for the game

bavaria100
10-04-2005, 09:26 PM
What the ...? This tourney is becoming more and more a joke.

El Legenda
10-04-2005, 09:27 PM
when someone is not doing there job at normal work they get fired, same thing with dubs here.

Whistleway
10-04-2005, 09:27 PM
It is so sad that it has to come to this :(

It would be nice if the top5 single players withdraw from Madrid to show support for doubles.

alfonsojose
10-04-2005, 09:29 PM
I sent this :devil: :mad:

modelos si, dobles no. Que sigue, que la mujer/novia del perdedor tenga sexo en publico con el ganador?. Eso si que atraería gente. Si los dobles estan en mal estado, es por la estupidez de los tontos, pero bien pagos, ejecutivos de la ATP

cecilija
10-04-2005, 09:30 PM
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
bad decision

alfonsojose
10-04-2005, 09:30 PM
It is so sad that it has to come to this :(

It would be nice if the top5 single players withdraw from Madrid to show support for doubles.
Great idea. Besides, surely there would be a diferent AMS winner this year :yawn:

Leo
10-04-2005, 09:42 PM
I've lost all respect for the ATP and the Madrid tournament director.

I would so boycott... if I was a pro. ;) I wish some big singles stars would back up the doubles players.

Phunkadelicious
10-04-2005, 09:44 PM
shame on the promoters of Madrid TMS and anyone else who supported this idiotic move. Killing doubles will NOT help the ATP in the long run.

Alvarillo
10-04-2005, 09:55 PM
It is so sad that it has to come to this :(

It would be nice if the top5 single players withdraw from Madrid to show support for doubles.

no because it would be unfair for the thousands of people who will attend this year again....

Timariot
10-04-2005, 09:55 PM
It is well known that Madrid attracts poor fields. I propose that ATP mandates Madrid TMS singles matches to be played only to 5 games per set, with tie-breaks played to 4 points.

Anyone think it would get Safin, Agassi etc not to skip it?

Timariot
10-04-2005, 10:00 PM
when someone is not doing there job at normal work they get fired, same thing with dubs here.

And the job of the ATP Bored of Directors is to promote interests of the players, not to eliminate their income. They are not doing their jobs, they should get fired.

El Legenda
10-04-2005, 10:04 PM
And the job of the ATP Bored of Directors is to promote interests of the players, not to eliminate their income. They are not doing their jobs, they should get fired.

how will the promote it when the dubs does not make money for them to promote it at 1st place. think about it, but cant get a rise if the company is not making money

Timariot
10-04-2005, 10:16 PM
how will the promote it when the dubs does not make money for them to promote it at 1st place. think about it, but cant get a rise if the company is not making money

Then why do investors give money to companies which are not making profit?

niko
10-04-2005, 10:24 PM
No offense, I'm 44 years old never watch doubles never will, it's basically for shitty players that never do well as singles and then another way to make money for jorneyman. ATP should use the money to promote tennis among kids who's parents can't afford expensive local clubs build more indoor clubs so kids can practice unless you live in Florida or California.

Phunkadelicious
10-04-2005, 10:24 PM
how will the promote it when the dubs does not make money for them to promote it at 1st place. think about it, but cant get a rise if the company is not making money

doubles doesn't make any money because the ATP doesn't promote it and it gets almost nill coverage on tv. The Bryan bros. could be huge american stars if they were promoted alongside roddick and agassi. Same goes for any doubles team anywhere in the world. As long as a team is consistently a team, and a doubles player doesn't change partners every year, then they can easily be promoted almost as one entity.

Carlita
10-04-2005, 10:25 PM
No offense, I'm 44 years old never watch doubles never will, it's basically for shitty players that never do well as singles and then another way to make money for jorneyman. ATP should use the money to promote tennis among kids who's parents can't afford expensive local clubs build more indoor clubs so kids can practice unless you live in Florida or California.:eek: Doubles are GREAT!!!!! :fiery: No offence??? Yes offence!!

Timariot
10-04-2005, 10:27 PM
No offense, I'm 44 years old never watch doubles never will, it's basically for shitty players that never do well as singles and then another way to make money for jorneyman.

You mean, shitty players like John McEnroe, Yevgeny Kafelnikov...?

Carlita
10-04-2005, 10:28 PM
I wanna see doubles!! They can't just take it away like that!! :fiery: Kick out the models! Bring back the tennis guys! :sad: this sucks!

Lee
10-04-2005, 10:28 PM
No offense, I'm 44 years old never watch doubles never will, it's basically for shitty players that never do well as singles and then another way to make money for jorneyman. ATP should use the money to promote tennis among kids who's parents can't afford expensive local clubs build more indoor clubs so kids can practice unless you live in Florida or California.

I'm really sorry for your loss.

Carlita
10-04-2005, 10:29 PM
You mean, shitty players like John McEnroe, Yevgeny Kafelnikov...?You're forgetting Mister Federer here....:rolleyes: Stefan Edberg......to name a few more :rolleyes: shitty guys indeed! Couldn't play tennis if their lives depended on it :p

s.m.
10-04-2005, 10:32 PM
No offense, I'm 44 years old never watch doubles never will, it's basically for shitty players that never do well as singles and then another way to make money for jorneyman.

some people think that players outside top 100 are shit
should we stop them from playing atp and making journyman money
they suck much more money than doubles

Timariot
10-04-2005, 10:35 PM
some people think that players outside top 100 are shit
should we stop them from plying atp

Yeah, it saddens me that there are so many mindless starfuckers around, who only value winners of the last 4 GS titles, and everybody else is worthless and should retire. Apparently they don't kind of realize that without those "shitty" players playing "pointless" events, there would not be any great players either.

It ain't so bad here, but WTAWorld is full of those idiots.

nitsansh
10-04-2005, 10:43 PM
I must admit... the ATP has a point... it's a fact that the general public doesn't care about doubles... TV hardly ever show doubles matches... the crowd doesn't flock to see doubles... this is where the money come from, so for tournament directors doubles is a losing product...

Chloe le Bopper
10-04-2005, 10:47 PM
No offense, I'm 44 years old never watch doubles never will, it's basically for shitty players that never do well as singles and then another way to make money for jorneyman. ATP should use the money to promote tennis among kids who's parents can't afford expensive local clubs build more indoor clubs so kids can practice unless you live in Florida or California.
Okay, this post wins the Ignorance Prize for Tuesday October 4th. Yay!

Scotso
10-04-2005, 10:50 PM
Let's all boycott it however we can :shrug:

s.m.
10-04-2005, 10:52 PM
I must admit... the ATP has a point... it's a fact that the general public doesn't care about doubles... TV hardly ever show doubles matches... the crowd doesn't flock to see doubles... this is where the money come from, so for tournament directors doubles is a losing product...

i think you got it wrong
atp dosen´t want doubles
and they are showing it
goal is to destroy doubles
next is single

vincayou
10-04-2005, 10:53 PM
Most people don't care about double. ATP is trying to fix it, I don't know why everyone complain. But suppressing it!!!?
The sad thing is that most people won't see the difference.

Timariot
10-04-2005, 10:55 PM
I must admit... the ATP has a point... it's a fact that the general public doesn't care about doubles... TV hardly ever show doubles matches... the crowd doesn't flock to see doubles... this is where the money come from, so for tournament directors doubles is a losing product...

It's a self-fullfilling prophecy. Top singles players don't care about doubles because it carries no prestige, it doesn't get shown in TV because top singles players don't play, and it carries no prestige because top singles players don't play it and it gets no TV time.

ATP's problem is that they are looking for a quick fix. There are none. It has taken a long time for doubles to decline to current situation, and it's going to take a long time to fix it.

But ATP Board of Idiots is not willing to pay the dues and work for it. They want to fix it quick and easy, but it can't be done that way, and they don't want to take a hard way, 'cause it's so hard and stuff.

Deboogle!.
10-04-2005, 10:56 PM
i'm just disgusted by this. I don't know what else to say. It would be nice if someone from the fucking ATP, the alleged PLAYERS UNION, stepped in and did something , but we will all turn gray waiting for that to happen.

vincayou
10-04-2005, 10:57 PM
It's a self-fullfilling prophecy. Top singles players don't care about doubles because it carries no prestige, it doesn't get shown in TV because top singles players don't play, and it carries no prestige because top singles players don't play it and it gets no TV time.

ATP's problem is that they are looking for a quick fix. There are none. It has taken a long time for doubles to decline to current situation, and it's going to take a long time to fix it.

But ATP Board of Idiots is not willing to pay the dues and work for it. They want to fix it quick and easy, but it can't be done that way, and they don't want to take a hard way, 'cause it's so hard and stuff.

What would YOU do to fix it? It sounds simple by listening to you.

KoOlMaNsEaN
10-04-2005, 10:58 PM
This is getting out of hand

El Legenda
10-04-2005, 11:00 PM
i think you got it wrong
atp dosen´t want doubles
and they are showing it
goal is to destroy doubles
next is single

are you fucking stupid, yeah destroy singles and then there is no ATP, just what they want. i really hope you are not that stupid.

El Legenda
10-04-2005, 11:01 PM
Then why do investors give money to companies which are not making profit?

can you make an example of that claim?

Mechlan
10-04-2005, 11:02 PM
Pure idiocy. They support the new ATP rules and are cancelling the doubles ... why? To protest the doubles players against it? That's what their statement seems to imply. :rolleyes:

michelleg
10-04-2005, 11:12 PM
Vincayou, its quite simple....bring doubles home to everyone. Fact is that the majority of tennis players actually do play doubles here in the United States alone. However, programming is such that the general public is never afforded the opportunity to see doubles. The ATP has never made any serious marketing efforts as far as doubles is concerned, and has wasted quite a bit of money on seriously lame marketing strategies for singles as well. Its time to hire TRUE professionals rather than politicos to properly market BOTH singles and doubles rather than to myopically focus on marketing the top ten singles players.

Moreover, I dont hear anyone complaining about empty seats in during first round singles matches in the stadium courts (as there were at RG and the USO.) And quite frankly, many people that attend finals of grand slam events are not really there for the tennis, they are there to be SEEN. That is true with almost every sport final...

I could go on and on but quite frankly, its not like anyone over at the ATP really cares anyway.

Timariot
10-04-2005, 11:13 PM
What would YOU do to fix it? It sounds simple by listening to you.

Promote doubles and doubles players on ATP website, magazine and press releases. Give monetary bonuses to players who have most success on both singles and doubles during a season. Mandate TV channels to show doubles finals along with the singles coverage.

They are already doing the first part: this is good, but important thing to notice is that there are no quick fixes for the situation. It takes time and work. Even if Federer, Agassi, Safin and Roddick all began to play doubles in every tournament they participated right now, it would not result to any meaningful improvment over short term. IMHO, it would be possible to get men's doubles to similar situation to where women's doubles are (or more accurately, were some time ago); most of the top players playing doubles at least semi-regular basis. Most importantly, including at Grand Slams.

Timariot
10-04-2005, 11:14 PM
can you make an example of that claim?

Pretty much almost any new company which releases its' stock.

El Legenda
10-04-2005, 11:17 PM
Pretty much almost any new company which releases its' stock.

its ATP a new company?, was Google losing money when they went public?

s.m.
10-04-2005, 11:28 PM
are you fucking stupid, yeah destroy singles and then there is no ATP, just what they want. i really hope you are not that stupid.


first of all, your mama is stupid :wavey:

second, doubles dont make money, they are not interesting?
and players outside top 100 make money
fuck, outside 20
atp should take 20 players and play tournaments with them
others are not interesting
take federer, roddick, nadala, and couple of others, you have commercial death
robredo makes money for atp, but bryans don´t
that is the point
maybe atp will say one day, why should we pay guys that dont make money, that are not on tv
first wipe out doubles, then sweep singles
if it´s all about money

Timariot
10-04-2005, 11:38 PM
its ATP a new company?, was Google losing money when they went public?

No, but sometimes even old estabilished companies make losses and need investors to bail them out. By the way, I'm pretty sure that Madrid TMS is making a loss for ATP tour. I'm sure you are aware that dotcom-companies generally did not earn a dime before they went public, and most of them kept making loss even after it... :rolleyes:

uNIVERSE mAN
10-04-2005, 11:39 PM
i piss on their leading of the game
first the shit with doping, now this
i soon expect destruction of singles
games played to 30, sets to 2 games
but in the same time some shitty tennis players are throwing matches so their familes and friend could earn big money on betting
deal with that you idiots from atp
atp is destroyng the game with their complete lack of vision, or sense of what is right for the game

don't make stupid comments, you know what you said is a load of horseshit, it's business sense man! no one F'n watches doubles, the tournaments are wasting their money on it.

s.m.
10-04-2005, 11:45 PM
don't make stupid comments, you know what you said is a load of horseshit, it's business sense man! no one F'n watches doubles, the tournaments are wasting their money on it.

you say i am stupid, i say you are stupid
circle continues.....

if they want to save money, they should cut playing field in singles to 8
playing field should be fed, rod, hew, saf, nadal, and 3 wild cards
everybody would watch that
that would be business
fuck all others
they dont make money

El Legenda
10-04-2005, 11:49 PM
No, but sometimes even old estabilished companies make losses and need investors to bail them out. By the way, I'm pretty sure that Madrid TMS is making a loss for ATP tour. I'm sure you are aware that dotcom-companies generally did not earn a dime before they went public, and most of them kept making loss even after it... :rolleyes:

Did you know the .COm like google. has people pay them, so when you search, there results come up 1st. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42235-2005Mar16.html

Timariot
10-04-2005, 11:54 PM
Did you know the .COm like google. has people pay them, so when you search, there results come up 1st. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42235-2005Mar16.html

Google is not the only company out there. Most of the dotcom-companies had millions invested to them, and now their stock passes for a toilet paper - if they are alive at all.

Timariot
10-04-2005, 11:56 PM
don't make stupid comments, you know what you said is a load of horseshit, it's business sense man! no one F'n watches doubles, the tournaments are wasting their money on it.

Most of the Masters Series tournaments are making a loss already, relatively tiny doubles purse has really little to do with it...

In fact, I suspect that this is behind it all. ATP executives don't really want to kill doubles, but they want to scare doubles players to accept further prize money and accommodation reductions, to bolster Tour's shaky economy.

El Legenda
10-05-2005, 12:01 AM
Google is not the only company out there. Most of the dotcom-companies had millions invested to them, and now their stock passes for a toilet paper - if they are alive at all.

right, and why they have sold 500Million$ in stock, all for nothing.

Corey Feldman
10-05-2005, 12:09 AM
very poor from the ATP.

the main thing i wanna know, will the model ballwomen be back this year?

Timariot
10-05-2005, 12:14 AM
right, and why they have sold 500Million$ in stock, all for nothing.

Hey Jerry, you might want to check this out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_commercial_failures#Internet_Dot-Com_flops

El Legenda
10-05-2005, 12:18 AM
i think Yahoo and Google, has made up for 5 of those, by the way 95% of business fail. and dubs is failing.

Timariot
10-05-2005, 12:33 AM
i think Yahoo and Google, has made up for 5 of those, by the way 95% of business fail. and dubs is failing.

Yeah, but investors don't spend millions into 95% of the businesses. Pets.com, Boo.com, Kozmo.com are all examples of companies which never made a profit, yet had millions invested on them, which according to you is impossible.

Of course, there are also companies which did not make profit at first, but began to profit later - like Yahoo.

mangoes
10-05-2005, 12:39 AM
Well, I have a very unpopular opinion, but Doubles does not generate very much interest from a lot of people, including myself. Yes, the brian brothers are our main doubles team from US, but I have never sat through one of their matches. I could care less what they do or don't do. The only time I watch a doubles match, there are players from the singles tour involved in the match. That happens to be the reality of many tennis viewers. So, I do respect the rules that have existed in doubles and I feel bad that people are getting screwed, but I don't have a problem with the possible changes to Doubles Tennis. I think it will make that aspect of Tennis more appealing to more viewers of tennis.

Scotso
10-05-2005, 12:50 AM
Well, I have a very unpopular opinion, but Doubles does not generate very much interest from a lot of people, including myself. Yes, the brian brothers are our main doubles team from US, but I have never sat through one of their matches. I could care less what they do or don't do. The only time I watch a doubles match, there are players from the singles tour involved in the match. That happens to be the reality of many tennis viewers. So, I do respect the rules that have existed in doubles and I feel bad that people are getting screwed, but I don't have a problem with the possible changes to Doubles Tennis. I think it will make that aspect of Tennis more appealing to more viewers of tennis.

People who don't like doubles aren't going to like it because of these changes. It's pointless.

Via
10-05-2005, 12:50 AM
i doubt if it is legal for madrid to dump doubles like this, in the middle of a court action. well then, more lawsuits. sooner or later doubles players will be spending more time in court than on courts... must be part of the conspiracy too lol

and did someone suggest the atp should cut cost to benefit poor kids?? well i won't be pointing out my age, but i gotta say... in your dreams ;p

amierin
10-05-2005, 01:00 AM
I've never been a big doubles fan but I'm not happy about this.

hablovah19
10-05-2005, 01:11 AM
this is a joke! :mad:

a real shame to stop doubles' players from participating in this tournie!!! :rolleyes:

I hope the doubles' players win their lawsuit!!!! :fiery:

allez Nestor and Knowles!!! :bounce:

bavaria100
10-05-2005, 01:15 AM
It´s totally clear why they did this: They have to save the prize money and hotel costs to pay the salaries of the models. They don´t run around the courts and throw the balls around for free. :rolleyes:

I´m sure that doubles could be popular if it would get more promotion. I mean, how should an average person be interested in doubles if it doesn´t get shown on tv or if the media doesn´t write about it. It´s the same in the music industry. You can produce the crappiest album ever, but if you get lots of media exposure you are almost guaranteed a top 10 spot in the charts. I wouldn´t even be surprised if many people don´t even know what doubles is or how it´s played. It´s really sad that the ATP and the tourney in Madrid are going that far and lock out the doubles players, because there are many great players with great personalities playing that sport.

mangoes
10-05-2005, 01:46 AM
People who don't like doubles aren't going to like it because of these changes. It's pointless.

I don't think it is a matter of people not liking doubles, it's boring, that's the issue.

Scotso
10-05-2005, 01:54 AM
I don't think it is a matter of people not liking doubles, it's boring, that's the issue.

Boring for you.

Deboogle!.
10-05-2005, 02:55 AM
Well, I have a very unpopular opinion, but Doubles does not generate very much interest from a lot of people, including myself. Yes, the brian brothers are our main doubles team from US, but I have never sat through one of their matches. I could care less what they do or don't do. The only time I watch a doubles match, there are players from the singles tour involved in the match. That happens to be the reality of many tennis viewers. So, I do respect the rules that have existed in doubles and I feel bad that people are getting screwed, but I don't have a problem with the possible changes to Doubles Tennis. I think it will make that aspect of Tennis more appealing to more viewers of tennis.I understand what you're trying to say, but it's like a chicken/egg problem. the thing is, you bring up the Bryans as your example, yet at the tourneys I have been to, they often draw bigger crowds than some singles matches. They are put on showcourts and their matches are advertised... thus, people show up. Doubles matches are some of the best and most exciting ones I've seen in person. It's an absolutely pivotal part of Davis Cup. And actually, the points are quicker and thus so are the matches usually. Don't you think that if the ATP and the tournaments promoted doubles and informed people how great it is that more people would show up? I certainly think so. Put doubles on the showcourts, advertise the matches on the PA system on changeovers for singles matches, give them some good times, etc. And people will show up, I am 100% positive of it because I've seen it happen at every tourney I've been to.

There are some doubles-friendly TDs out there, too. You have a guy like Mattress Mack, who, say what you will about the man, has worked his ass off for doubles at his tourney by giving them equal prize money and promoting and featuring doubles like MAD. They did autograph signings with Leach/MacPhie and Knowles/Nestor when I went, even put these teams on the show practice courts, and the lines were just as long as they were for many of the favorite singles players.

None of these things cost the tourney money. it doesn't cost money to make announcements and slightly adjust the scheduling. And it certainly doesn't require totally fucking up the game and ruining the livelihood for a lot of guys who truly love what they do. There are also young teams like the Barker twins who really had a lot of promise as a doubles-only team a la the Bryans, and they retired in protest. It's a little more than mildly nauseating that future and potential stars of the game feel that they need to retire in their early 20s because the group that was allegedly supposed to be their own union has screwed them over so badly. I mean, can you imagine a teachers' or teamsters' or whatever union creating policies like this that screw over their own members? It's almost incomprehensible.

But besides all this, doubles is just plain fun and exciting. and if more people were just a little bit educated about it, they'd go see it and would like it just like a lot of us already do. But instead, they're too damn lazy and decide that messing it up completely is somehow a better idea. :shrug:

mangoes
10-05-2005, 03:02 AM
Boring for you.

A lot of times, fans think because they love something, everyone who isn't a dedicated fan must love it to. The reality is a lot of occasional tennis fans find doubles tennis extremely boring. Just look at the stands during a doubles match, I'm obviously not the only person. During the final of the US Open for doubles, the stadium was practically empty.

AlexNYR
10-05-2005, 03:06 AM
Well, I have a very unpopular opinion, but Doubles does not generate very much interest from a lot of people, including myself. Yes, the brian brothers are our main doubles team from US, but I have never sat through one of their matches. I could care less what they do or don't do. The only time I watch a doubles match, there are players from the singles tour involved in the match. That happens to be the reality of many tennis viewers. So, I do respect the rules that have existed in doubles and I feel bad that people are getting screwed, but I don't have a problem with the possible changes to Doubles Tennis. I think it will make that aspect of Tennis more appealing to more viewers of tennis.


i agree with this except i can watch doubles esp.davis or fed cup...keep doubles for that....all the people that are complaining are the doubles specialiasts and the diehard fans, in other words a percentage of a percentage of tennis people....my solution is this: if people think doubles is so popular and can succeed with marketing and tv then let the doubles players/fans start a doubles tour on their own and see if they can survive...the dead truth is the tournaments should not have to be forced to pay or put up doubles players if they feel they dont offer anything....and its easy to talk about money when it isn't yours...if tournaments want to save 10000 dollars it should be their right...madrid or any tournament should not be strong armed into paying for something that only empty seats watch....every diehard fan i know cares zero about doubles results...and these doubles specialist make more money that many many singles players do, and do less...i mean even the mixed doubles winners share 6 figures in the slams and that money is better off just getting burned...doubles players are skilled and i do actually know the teams but they should not be allowed to force others to pay them...bravo to madrid for not capitulating, and a double bravo for bringing the models back for this years winner to spray with champagne the way marat did last year...

mangoes
10-05-2005, 03:15 AM
I understand what you're trying to say, but it's like a chicken/egg problem. the thing is, you bring up the Bryans as your example, yet at the tourneys I have been to, they often draw bigger crowds than some singles matches. They are put on showcourts and their matches are advertised... thus, people show up. Doubles matches are some of the best and most exciting ones I've seen in person. It's an absolutely pivotal part of Davis Cup. And actually, the points are quicker and thus so are the matches usually. Don't you think that if the ATP and the tournaments promoted doubles and informed people how great it is that more people would show up? I certainly think so. Put doubles on the showcourts, advertise the matches on the PA system on changeovers for singles matches, give them some good times, etc. And people will show up, I am 100% positive of it because I've seen it happen at every tourney I've been to.

There are some doubles-friendly TDs out there, too. You have a guy like Mattress Mack, who, say what you will about the man, has worked his ass off for doubles at his tourney by giving them equal prize money and promoting and featuring doubles like MAD. They did autograph signings with Leach/MacPhie and Knowles/Nestor when I went, even put these teams on the show practice courts, and the lines were just as long as they were for many of the favorite singles players.

None of these things cost the tourney money. it doesn't cost money to make announcements and slightly adjust the scheduling. And it certainly doesn't require totally fucking up the game and ruining the livelihood for a lot of guys who truly love what they do. There are also young teams like the Barker twins who really had a lot of promise as a doubles-only team a la the Bryans, and they retired in protest. It's a little more than mildly nauseating that future and potential stars of the game feel that they need to retire in their early 20s because the group that was allegedly supposed to be their own union has screwed them over so badly. I mean, can you imagine a teachers' or teamsters' or whatever union creating policies like this that screw over their own members? It's almost incomprehensible.

But besides all this, doubles is just plain fun and exciting. and if more people were just a little bit educated about it, they'd go see it and would like it just like a lot of us already do. But instead, they're too damn lazy and decide that messing it up completely is somehow a better idea. :shrug:

I think there is a problem with marketing across the board.............and that includes singles. I don't know which tournaments you attended that were full for the doubles matches, but the tournaments I've attended, the stands were practically empty and those that were there were usually chatting to each other. I sat through a knowles/nestor match this year. I can't remember who they were playing. But, I was in the midst of one very interesting conversation happening among those sitting in my area. Yes, everyone stopped and clapped when a point was won, but real attention wasn't being paid to the match. At this point, unless a serious marketing program is launched, and that cost serious money, it is cheaper to just change the rules.

mangoes
10-05-2005, 03:19 AM
i agree with this except i can watch doubles esp.davis or fed cup...keep doubles for that....all the people that are complaining are the doubles specialiasts and the diehard fans, in other words a percentage of a percentage of tennis people....my solution is this: if people think doubles is so popular and can succeed with marketing and tv then let the doubles players/fans start a doubles tour on their own and see if they can survive...the dead truth is the tournaments should not have to be forced to pay or put up doubles players if they feel they dont offer anything....and its easy to talk about money when it isn't yours...if tournaments want to save 10000 dollars it should be their right...madrid or any tournament should not be strong armed into paying for something that only empty seats watch....every diehard fan i know cares zero about doubles results...and these doubles specialist make more money that many many singles players do, and do less...i mean even the mixed doubles winners share 6 figures in the slams and that money is better off just getting burned...doubles players are skilled and i do actually know the teams but they should not be allowed to force others to pay them...bravo to madrid for not capitulating, and a double bravo for bringing the models back for this years winner to spray with champagne the way marat did last year...


I love the doubles played in Davis cup and Fed cup. And I will admit, one of the biggest reasons, I enjoy the doubles matches is because I know the players. I watched the Fed Cup final between Russia and France, and I have to say the doubles match was entertaining and exciting. I knew all the players in the match, it was the deciding match, and it was just plain fun.

NYCtennisfan
10-05-2005, 03:31 AM
People who don't like doubles aren't going to like it because of these changes. It's pointless.

Yep. Not much else that needs to be said.

I think for many people, they got into the sport because os singles action--the one-on-one battle is very alluring. That is diminished in doubles and people aren't interested in it.

It's still quite dissapointing and quite surprising to see this happen though.

LaTenista
10-05-2005, 03:45 AM
It's a self-fullfilling prophecy. Top singles players don't care about doubles because it carries no prestige, it doesn't get shown in TV because top singles players don't play, and it carries no prestige because top singles players don't play it and it gets no TV time.

I'm not sure what is going on at other tournaments, but I've been to Cincy the last few years and all the doubles matches are quite well attended (more so than some singles matches), in fact several times those courts were filled to capacity and not everyone who wanted to watch could get inside.

As for top players not playing doubles, that simply is not true. This year Roddick, Safin, Federer, Nadal (who's played more than the rest of the Top 10 combined), Agassi, Ferrer, Gasquet, Robredo, etc. have all played at least one ATP doubles match. None of those matches were televised.

I honestly don't think singles players don't play doubles more because it has no prestige. Prestige is not what playing doubles is about. Players who enjoy doubles play doubles, period. There certainly isn't much of a financial incentive as doubles prize money is :eek: compared to singles.

:shrug: Doesn't seem like Madrid probably cancelling the doubles will really help the situation.

niko
10-05-2005, 03:51 AM
You mean, shitty players like John McEnroe, Yevgeny Kafelnikov...?
No I mean shitty players like Sampras and Agassi. ;)

niko
10-05-2005, 03:55 AM
You're forgetting Mister Federer here....:rolleyes: Stefan Edberg......to name a few more :rolleyes: shitty guys indeed! Couldn't play tennis if their lives depended on it :p
Let me know when Federer plays doubles so I can watch him. ;)

niko
10-05-2005, 03:57 AM
I'm really sorry for your loss.
No no I'm really sorry for your loss. ;)

niko
10-05-2005, 03:59 AM
Okay, this post wins the Ignorance Prize for Tuesday October 4th. Yay!
How much is it? ;)

Deboogle!.
10-05-2005, 03:59 AM
During the final of the US Open for doubles, the stadium was practically empty.Because it was on at 11am on Friday morning in NYC. Anyone with even a shred of common sense would know that the people who were coming later for the womens semis wouldn't show up for the mens doubles.

The tournaments I go to push doubles. They put up pictures next to singles players and promote it. And I am quite positive that it doesn't cost serious money. And it's smaller tournaments I've been to - Houston, LA. I also went to Scottsdale which was one of the ones that put doubles on at like 10am and late at night and on obscure courts and surprise surprise no one went to see it. It's all in the way the tourney treats it. if the tournament treats it as on equal footing with singles, I am absolutely convinced that more people would go and enjoy it. You can't tell me it won't work because i've seen it myself and I can do the direct comparisons between tournaments with my own eyes and I trust my own judgment lol

I mean if people are gonna go to doubles just to chat during it, why bother? that seems pointless to me. :shrug:

El Legenda
10-05-2005, 04:02 AM
Yeah, but investors don't spend millions into 95% of the businesses. Pets.com, Boo.com, Kozmo.com are all examples of companies which never made a profit, yet had millions invested on them, which according to you is impossible.

.

according to me? really, it accoding to you.

LaTenista
10-05-2005, 04:03 AM
Let me know when Federer plays doubles so I can watch him. ;)

In June Roger won the doubles title at Halle with Yves Allegro.

In August he played doubles in Cincy.

Two weeks ago he played doubles in Switzerland for Davis Cup.

niko
10-05-2005, 04:09 AM
In June Roger won the doubles title at Halle with Yves Allegro.

In August he played doubles in Cincy.

Two weeks ago he played doubles in Switzerland for Davis Cup.
What channel it was on, I must've missed it. ;)

Billabong
10-05-2005, 04:16 AM
whoa:eek:

mangoes
10-05-2005, 04:58 AM
Because it was on at 11am on Friday morning in NYC. Anyone with even a shred of common sense would know that the people who were coming later for the womens semis wouldn't show up for the mens doubles.

The tournaments I go to push doubles. They put up pictures next to singles players and promote it. And I am quite positive that it doesn't cost serious money. And it's smaller tournaments I've been to - Houston, LA. I also went to Scottsdale which was one of the ones that put doubles on at like 10am and late at night and on obscure courts and surprise surprise no one went to see it. It's all in the way the tourney treats it. if the tournament treats it as on equal footing with singles, I am absolutely convinced that more people would go and enjoy it. You can't tell me it won't work because i've seen it myself and I can do the direct comparisons between tournaments with my own eyes and I trust my own judgment lol

I mean if people are gonna go to doubles just to chat during it, why bother? that seems pointless to me. :shrug:

I think your love of doubles is clouding your perception. Not even the US Open officials expected much interest in the doubles final so they put it at 11 am to get it out of the way. And most people were waiting on a Nadal match that was to follow the doubles being played..............that's in reference to the event I was chatting about earlier............ People just didn't care that much about the doubles match and I realized that at 2 masters events this year. So in my opinion, money is being wasted. Money that can be better used in promoting Tennis period.

niko
10-05-2005, 05:16 AM
I think your love of doubles is clouding your perception. Not even the US Open officials expected much interest in the doubles final so they put it at 11 am to get it out of the way. And most people were waiting on a Nadal match that was to follow the doubles being played..............that's in reference to the event I was chatting about earlier............ People just didn't care that much about the doubles match and I realized that at 2 masters events this year. So in my opinion, money is being wasted. Money that can be better used in promoting Tennis period.
If I make any money for my post that won the Ignorance Prize for Tuesday October 4th I promise I'll share with you. ;)

Action Jackson
10-05-2005, 05:20 AM
I am no great fan of doubles, but Ion Tiriac you rock my world.

~EMiLiTA~
10-05-2005, 07:36 AM
No offense, I'm 44 years old never watch doubles never will, it's basically for shitty players that never do well as singles and then another way to make money for jorneyman.

are u ignorant or what? that is the most stupid comment i have heard all day.

this tournament is totally becoming more of a joke each day...i would never patronise it with their stupid models idea and now this. tournament directors and the ATP should pull their finger out of their arse and organise a credible tournament which is fair to both singles and doubles players alike. they are destroying the game with what they're doing.

~EMiLiTA~
10-05-2005, 07:39 AM
Let me know when Federer plays doubles so I can watch him. ;)

if u knew anything about tennis u would know he occasionally plays doubles with yves allegro...they have even won a title together this year. :rolleyes:

Björki
10-05-2005, 07:51 AM
F*CK!!!!!!!!!!!

vincayou
10-05-2005, 08:13 AM
Promote doubles and doubles players on ATP website, magazine and press releases. Give monetary bonuses to players who have most success on both singles and doubles during a season. Mandate TV channels to show doubles finals along with the singles coverage.

They are already doing the first part: this is good, but important thing to notice is that there are no quick fixes for the situation. It takes time and work. Even if Federer, Agassi, Safin and Roddick all began to play doubles in every tournament they participated right now, it would not result to any meaningful improvment over short term. IMHO, it would be possible to get men's doubles to similar situation to where women's doubles are (or more accurately, were some time ago); most of the top players playing doubles at least semi-regular basis. Most importantly, including at Grand Slams.

The main reason why many players don't play doubles is because they don't want to get tired for the single competition. And when they play, keeping that in mind, I doubt they give 100%. All this always gives me the feeling (it's maybe false) that the competition is a bit fake. And I think that it's one of the reason why many people are not interested in it.
So making double match shorter is a good idea IMO.

silverwhite
10-05-2005, 08:34 AM
:silly: Ridiculous! First the changes to the doubles scoring, now this.

Timariot
10-05-2005, 08:49 AM
What channel it was on, I must've missed it. ;)

See? This is exactly the problem. "It's not on TV, so it did not happen."

Timariot
10-05-2005, 08:51 AM
The main reason why many players don't play doubles is because they don't want to get tired for the single competition.


Lots of players play full schedule of both singles and doubles and it doesn't seem to have effect on their singles results.


So making double match shorter is a good idea IMO.

But it doesn't get more people watching. Actually, it will have an opposite effect.

Timariot
10-05-2005, 08:54 AM
according to me? really, it accoding to you.

Let me make your point even clearer. Here's your post:
-------------
Originally Posted by Timariot
Then why do investors give money to companies which are not making profit?

can you make an example of that claim?"
------------

I believe the correct term here is pwned

Timariot
10-05-2005, 08:56 AM
A lot of times, fans think because they love something, everyone who isn't a dedicated fan must love it to. The reality is a lot of occasional tennis fans find doubles tennis extremely boring.

Yeah well, many occasional tennis fans also found Sampras boring. So why he was allowed to play? It was not productive!

Eruwen
10-05-2005, 09:11 AM
Ok, let me get this straight... the ATP is trying to attract a bigger crowd to doubles matches... Madrid supports this... yet they are planning to cancel the doubles competition this year?! http://members.home.nl/gvanbienen/shrug.gif


http://members.home.nl/gvanbienen/pissed.gif

~EMiLiTA~
10-05-2005, 09:17 AM
See? This is exactly the problem. "It's not on TV, so it did not happen."

i know...imagine if everyone has this mentality. if you live in australia that means the french open did not happen

Timariot
10-05-2005, 09:25 AM
Ok, let me get this straight... the ATP is trying to attract a bigger crowd to doubles matches... Madrid supports this... yet they are planning to cancel the doubles competition this year?!

Naah, they don't really care either way...it's just that their tournament is struggling, so they are trying to save few bucks by cancelling doubles competition. In a larger scale of things, it will probably end up backfiring. Note the part "Masters Series Madrid will cancel the doubles competition and will donate 50% of the doubles prize money (170,000 €) to the ATP Player’s Retirement Plan. "

Total prize money purse is 2 million euros. So after their generous donation of 50% of doubles prize money, they end up saving around $100k. Lost attendance and negative publicity will probably easily generate larger loss than that.

~EMiLiTA~
10-05-2005, 09:27 AM
A lot of times, fans think because they love something, everyone who isn't a dedicated fan must love it to. The reality is a lot of occasional tennis fans find doubles tennis extremely boring.

yes, i agree that some doubles matches can be boring and that doubles is not as popular as singles, but that is no reason to get rid of it. for some players (doubles specialists) that is what they do. there are also a lot of fans who do enjoy watching doubles. by eliminating doubles or changing the rules so much, they are effectively eliminating/ruining half of the game of tennis and showing a bias only towards singles because it is supposedly more interesting...it's the principle that is disgusting.

vincayou
10-05-2005, 09:28 AM
Lots of players play full schedule of both singles and doubles and it doesn't seem to have effect on their singles results.

Actually, many players don't play doubles because they fear it might affect their result in single. One, by instance, is Gasquet. And it's a shame, because he's a very good double player. He supports the change which are made right now.

Just to give you an other example, Nadal retired from the double in Halle after having been eliminated in single. He was tired and didn't want to tire himself more before Wimbledon.


But it doesn't get more people watching. Actually, it will have an opposite effect.

I, for one, would watch it more if it was shorter. One hour.

Timariot
10-05-2005, 09:42 AM
Actually, many players don't play doubles because they fear it might affect their result in single. One, by instance, is Gasquet. And it's a shame, because he's a very good double player. He supports the change which are made right now.


Yes, some players do feel that they need to abandon doubles to concentrate on singles. But many players, even all-time greats, have played active schedule of both without it having negative effect on their singles result. Hence, you cannot generalize.

Shortening of doubles matches in GS tournaments did not get any more people watching or any more top singles players playing. Actual physical effort of playing a doubles match is seldom particularly great, it is more the mental effort of going out there and concentrating and competing. Shortening the matches is not going to help on that at all, hence those players who currently skip the doubles will continute to do so regardless of how long the matches are.


I, for one, would watch it more if it was shorter. One hour.

Most doubles matches are already shorter than that. And frankly, I doubt you would watch it more. Especially given that it would not get any more TV time, so you couldn't even if you wanted.

bavaria100
10-05-2005, 10:33 AM
In June Roger won the doubles title at Halle with Yves Allegro.

In August he played doubles in Cincy.

Two weeks ago he played doubles in Switzerland for Davis Cup.


He also played doubles in Hamburg.

bavaria100
10-05-2005, 10:53 AM
Because it was on at 11am on Friday morning in NYC. Anyone with even a shred of common sense would know that the people who were coming later for the womens semis wouldn't show up for the mens doubles.

The tournaments I go to push doubles. They put up pictures next to singles players and promote it. And I am quite positive that it doesn't cost serious money. And it's smaller tournaments I've been to - Houston, LA. I also went to Scottsdale which was one of the ones that put doubles on at like 10am and late at night and on obscure courts and surprise surprise no one went to see it. It's all in the way the tourney treats it. if the tournament treats it as on equal footing with singles, I am absolutely convinced that more people would go and enjoy it. You can't tell me it won't work because i've seen it myself and I can do the direct comparisons between tournaments with my own eyes and I trust my own judgment lol

I mean if people are gonna go to doubles just to chat during it, why bother? that seems pointless to me. :shrug:


That´s true. You can be sure that there are very few people attending a match at 11 am, it´s totally irrelevant if it´s a doubles or a singles match. Every match would be played in front of a small crowd if it´s played that early in the morning, or how would everyone of you explain the empty seats at many singles matches during the first rounds of the TMS events in Miami, Indian Wells or the US Open (and I´m talking about matches where people like Clijsters, the Williams sisters, Lleyton Hewitt etc. are playing)?

In the last few years, I attended a few doubles matches in Hamburg and if a doubles match is on at a suitable time, it attracts a big crowd. This year I watched a doubles match with Tommy Robredo and Jiri Novak and the court was totally full (even though the match betwenn Ferrero and Safin was played on the Center Court at the same time). You even had to wait 20 minutes to get into the stadium. It was the same when I saw a match with Bhupatti/Gambill a few years ago. It just depends on the way the tournament organisers treat the doubles competition.

Adman
10-05-2005, 11:01 AM
I have to say that the ball girls AKA women were rather interesting but cutting the double's never, we can't live without the great doubles from Bjorkman, Mirni, Bob, Mike and the rest of the doubles guys.

Deboogle!.
10-05-2005, 03:43 PM
and the plot thickens...
------------------------
ATP: Madrid Masters Must Hold Doubles Event

By Richard Pagliaro
10/06/2005

The ATP has issued a message to Madrid tournament officials: they must host a doubles event at the Tennis Masters Series-Madrid, which begins on October 17th.

Less than 24 hours after Gerard Tsobanian, General Manager at the Masters Series Madrid announced the tournament would not host a doubles competition at the tournament until "the antitrust lawsuit brought by 45 doubles players against the ATP and its Board of Directors Members is withdrawn or resolved", the ATP said it has ordered Madrid officials to host a doubles event.

"The ATP was unaware of the Masters Series Madrid’s decision to announce that they planned to suspend their doubles competition in support of the ATP, which has been sued by a number of doubles players," the ATP told Tennis Week in a statement Wednesday morning. "Irrespective of the tournament’s motivation, they have been advised that they are not in a position to unilaterally make such changes. Therefore, we have informed Madrid tournament management that they must hold a doubles event."

The ATP's statement raises the question was the Madrid announcement merely a publicity ploy designed to generate interest in an event which hired professional models to work as ball girls last year as a marketing move or were tournament officials serious in their stated desire to eliminate doubles?

Rule 2.03 in the 2005 Official ATP Rulebook states: "Any ATP or Challenger Series Tournament that defaults in payment of prize money or tournament fee or any other payments due to the ATP may have its membership status (sanctioned status if a Challenger Series Tournament) changed subject to ATP Bylaws."

Based on that rule and given the ATP's statement that it was unaware of Madrid officials' decision to suspend the event its clear the tournament did not have the authority to make such a decision.

Tennis Week is attempting to contact Madrid officials for their comment on the ATP's statement.

niko
10-05-2005, 04:00 PM
are u ignorant or what? that is the most stupid comment i have heard all day.

this tournament is totally becoming more of a joke each day...i would never patronise it with their stupid models idea and now this. tournament directors and the ATP should pull their finger out of their arse and organise a credible tournament which is fair to both singles and doubles players alike. they are destroying the game with what they're doing.
I already won The Prize for my stupid comment and I hope you win something for making smart comments. ;)

Pea
10-05-2005, 04:04 PM
Hmmm....I wonder if the doubles players will still go.:tape:

niko
10-05-2005, 04:05 PM
if u knew anything about tennis u would know he occasionally plays doubles with yves allegro...they have even won a title together this year. :rolleyes:
So to know anything about tennis you have to watch doubles or follow their schedule, interesting. ;)

*Viva Chile*
10-05-2005, 04:57 PM
The ATP didn't authorized to the TMS Madrid's organization that resolution...

(In spanish)

ATP pide al torneo de Madrid que mantenga el dobles

MONTECARLO.- La ATP reaccionó con firmeza a la decisión del torneo de tenis de Madrid de suspender la competencia de dobles en el Masters Series, que comienza dentro de diez días en la capital española, y conminó al certamen a dar marcha atrás en su anuncio.

"No están en posición de hacer semejantes cambios de manera unilateral", dijo Benito Pérez Barbadillo, portavoz del ente rector del tenis masculino. "Deben llevar adelante el torneo de dobles", subrayó.

Madrid anunció sorpresivamente en la noche del martes su decisión de "no celebrar la prueba de parejas en solidaridad con la ATP y los miembros de su Consejo de Directores, contra quienes los jugadores de dobles han presentado una denuncia".

La situación no tiene precedentes en la historia del circuito profesional masculino, y amenaza con generar una fuerte polémica y más enfrentamiento entre la ATP y los jugadores a los que el ente rector del tenis masculino teóricamente representa.

La propia ATP se vio sorprendida anoche ante la decisión del torneo, y admitió no haber sido informada previamente del golpe que iba a dar Madrid. La ATP discutió hoy el tema con Gerard Tsobanian, director general del Masters Series de Madrid, al que dejó clara su posición.

"La ATP no estaba al tanto de la decisión del Masters Series de Madrid de suspender la competición de dobles en apoyo a la ATP, que fue demandada por varios doblistas", admitió Pérez Barbadillo.

"Más allá de las motivaciones del torneo, se le alertó de que no está en posición de hacer semejantes cambios de manera unilateral", agregó el portavoz, que conminó al torneo a dar marcha atrás en su decisión.

"Informamos a los responsables del torneo de Madrid de que deben llevar adelante el torneo de dobles", concluyó.

La ATP está buscando un nuevo formato para el dobles, con un nuevo sistema de puntuación, aunque lo que más indigna a los doblistas es que se buscará limitar los cuadros y promover la participación de los singlistas en la especialidad por parejas.

Los mejores doblistas del mundo, encabezados por los estadounidenses Bob y Mike Bryan, el bahameño Mark Knowles, el canadiense Daniel Nestor y el indio Mahesh Bhupathi, presentaron una denuncia el 1 de septiembre en un juzgado federal de Texas contra la ATP y los siete miembros de su Consejo de Directores.

El torneo de Madrid se juega del 15 al 23 de octubre en el "Rockódromo" de la Casa de Campo, una de las principales áreas verdes de la ciudad.

Deboogle!.
10-05-2005, 05:00 PM
I posted an English version of that a few posts above :)

At least the ATP is like, doing something. The Tennis Week article suggests a few possibilities why the Madrid TD may have done that - he may very well have known he wasn't allowed to cancel the doubles but he could pretend and still create a big to-do :rolleyes:

I♥PsY@Mus!c
10-05-2005, 05:08 PM
Stupid idea! :shout: They should dump those models only. :armed:

propi
10-05-2005, 05:10 PM
Not enough, double players should be decapitated in the middle of the court, by a model, of course

s.m.
10-05-2005, 05:45 PM
The ATP didn't authorized to the TMS Madrid's organization that resolution...

this is a bigger joke than i tought
atp dosen´t know what the hell the directors in madrid are doing, probably until they read it in the papers

Angle Queen
10-05-2005, 05:48 PM
Hmmm, I thought I might be able to stay away from this debate (we've had it before in several other threads)...but as it continues to rage, I thought I might add my 2-cents worth.

I would actually be in favor of some tournaments not having a doubles draw as long as the big tourneys still held them, and I'm sorry Madrid...as a TMS....that's you! If pressed to make a choice, I'll take quality over quantity any day.

Couple of other things: to the one who find doubles boring...I'm sorry...and there's probably nothing that can sway you. We need to stop trying to convince you you're wrong, and you need to stop trying to convince us you're right. Dorky rule changes certainly aren't going to bring in a new fan-base and serve only to tick-off the existing one.

It's really hard to pinpoint exactly how the ATP thinks they're trying to fix things: make the matches shorter (they're already shorter than any singles matches) or to get Top Players involved??!?!? I mean, come on, the players are already complaining their season is too long. Trying to get singles-specialists in doubles ain't gonna work unless you either coerce them...or give them a real incentive.

Coercion: You can’t enter the singles draw unless you enter the doubles draw too (maybe not every tournament; there could be a set number of singles-only tourneys you’re allowed to have).

Incentive: If you enter the doubles draw, you can keep your singles points you had to defend, regardless of your result. Or multiply your actual results by your double points.

Granted, I haven’t really thought any of those through, and am not advocating one or the other, but lay them out as an example of more creative ways to ‘cook the books’ without messing with the integrity of the game (which, to me, is 6-game sets, deuce scoring).

michelleg
10-05-2005, 06:00 PM
Well crap, if they are going to turn tennis into one big circus, all I want to know is when we get roving beer vendors in the stadium courts. Its such a pain to have to wait for a changeover to grab a beverage......better yet, the American version could feature local Hooters waitresses as beer vendors and ball girls....and during changeovers they could blast some outdated pop music with a catchy refrain and everyone could sing "Who let the dogs out" whilst simultaneously doing the wave.

Now that's entertainment.

JuchuPati
10-05-2005, 06:07 PM
puff

I 'm ashamed of being spaniard :o

the things that happen in this country are not normal, honestly.

Lee
10-05-2005, 06:17 PM
puff

I 'm ashamed of being spaniard :o

the things that happen in this country are not normal, honestly.

Every countries have their own arse clowns. :p

alfonsojose
10-05-2005, 06:24 PM
Thank God it's not going to happen. First the models, then not doubles. As i said in the e-mail i sent to those assholes, What's next. The winner of a singles macth is going to have sex with the loser's wife on the court. That's the only way these :retard: can attract people :rolleyes:

Timariot
10-05-2005, 06:31 PM
What they now need is Tsobanian making a run-in during a doubles semifinal and hitting Jonas Björkman in the head with a steel chair.

Evil Owner vs Popular People's Champion plotline never fails.

niko
10-05-2005, 07:10 PM
Thank God it's not going to happen. First the models, then not doubles. As i said in the e-mail i sent to those assholes, What's next. The winner of a singles macth is going to have sex with the loser's wife on the court. That's the only way these :retard: can attract people :rolleyes:
Or have sex with the looser. ;)

Alvarillo
10-05-2005, 07:16 PM
LATEST NEWS: Madrid AMS organization announces that the doubles competition will be played :)

They announced it in the volunteers meeting few minutes ago, so the doubles draw will be played :bounce:

Galaxystorm
10-05-2005, 07:18 PM
LATEST NEWS: Madrid AMS organization announces that the doubles competition will be played :)

They announced it in the volunteers meeting few minutes ago, so the doubles draw will be played :bounce:

Muñoz has called them and they has been shit-scared

delsa
10-05-2005, 07:25 PM
Every countries have their own arse clowns. :p
So true...:yeah:

This is :retard:. I hope that the other TMS won't try to do that too... :rolleyes: I want doubles in Paris-Bercy! Pioline's better not behave like an arse clown. :mad:
Money, money...Always about money... :sad:

delsa
10-05-2005, 07:26 PM
LATEST NEWS: Madrid AMS organization announces that the doubles competition will be played :)

They announced it in the volunteers meeting few minutes ago, so the doubles draw will be played :bounce:
:worship: :D

Alvarillo
10-05-2005, 09:17 PM
:confused:
Manolo Santana says in www.elmundo.es that the doubles won't be played ...
sorry but in the volunteers meeting they told us that the draw would be played because the ATP asked for it but now i read this ...

Santana says that maybe some exhibitions matches will be played instead of doubles :confused: :mad:
http://www.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/2005/10/05/tenis/1128503521.html

Lee
10-05-2005, 09:33 PM
The twists and turns with this debacle are more than soap in North America. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

http://www.sportsmediainc.net/tennisweek/index.cfm?func=showarticle&newsid=14016&bannerregion=

Madrid Stands By Decision To Dump Doubles


By Richard Pagliaro
10/06/2005


The Tennis Masters Series Madrid is still saying no mas to doubles. The tournament has received the ATP's decree that it must host a doubles event, but is steadfastly standing by its decision to eliminate doubles unless the "antitrust lawsuit brought by 45 doubles players against the ATP and its Board of Directors Members is withdrawn or resolved" by the October 17th start of the tournament.



Hours after the ATP issued a statement ordering Madrid officials to stage a doubles competition at the tournament, a tournament spokesperson told Tennis Week, Madrid officials have no plans to host doubles unless the lawsuit is settled. Madrid officials bounced the ball back into the court of the litigants in saying the players must settle the suit against the ATP before they will consent to host the doubles event.

"We received the communication (from the ATP) and we still maintain our position of not having it (doubles)," Madrid Director of Communications Cecilia Casla told Tennis Week Wednesday afternoon. "We hope there is maybe some reaction or response from the players (to settle the suit). As I said: we are still in the same position as we were yesterday (when the tournament announced it was suspending doubles). Nothing has changed."

The comments came just hours after the ATP ordered Madrid to stage a doubles event in accordance with Tour rules.

"The ATP was unaware of the Masters Series Madrid’s decision to announce that they planned to suspend their doubles competition in support of the ATP, which has been sued by a number of doubles players," the ATP told Tennis Week in a statement Wednesday morning. "Irrespective of the tournament’s motivation, they have been advised that they are not in a position to unilaterally make such changes. Therefore, we have informed Madrid tournament management that they must hold a doubles event."

When informed Madrid officials said they maintain their stance of suspending doubles, an ATP spokesman said the Tour "adamantly stands by our statement. The statement speaks for itself."

In announcing the decision to dump doubles on Tuesday, Masters Series Madrid General Manager Gerard Tsobanian said in a statement. "Doubles matches at ATP tournaments around the world go on unnoticed, attracting very small crowds. By making it more accessible to top singles players, with a new format and short matches we feel that this competition will become more attractive to the fans. We consider that the lawsuit filed by these 45 doubles players makes no sense and therefore it is not coherent for us to organize the doubles draw this year in Madrid with these same players while they are in the middle of a lawsuit against the ATP, of which we are members."

It is estimated that the tournament can potentially save up to $400,000 by eliminating doubles. Tsobanian said if the lawsuit brought by the players is not settled by October 17th "the organization of the Masters Series Madrid will cancel the doubles competition and will donate 50 percent of the doubles prize money (about $202,726) to the ATP Player's Retirement Plan."

Madrid officials rejected the suggestion eliminating doubles may be a cost-cutting measure to save the tournament money by eliminating doubles prize money.

"It has nothing to do with money," Casla told Tennis Week. "It is not a money issue at all. We are taking the position we have to take in support of the sport."

Essentially, Madrid officials are saying they have suspended doubles in support of the ATP, but their decision to eliminate doubles violates the ATP's own rules and public statement on the issue.

Rule 2.03 in the 2005 Official ATP Rulebook states: "Any ATP or Challenger Series Tournament that defaults in payment of prize money or tournament fee or any other payments due to the ATP may have its membership status (sanctioned status if a Challenger Series Tournament) changed subject to ATP Bylaws."

When asked how the tournament would respond if the ATP takes its case to court in an effort to enforce its own rules and require Madrid to stage a doubles tournament, the spokesperson replied: "Now, we're getting into legal territory, which I can't comment on."

Though the tournament has not wavered in its stance of suspending doubles, singles players will have company on court: the tournament does plan to bring back the Hugo Boss-sponsored models to serve as ball girls.

Lee
10-05-2005, 09:35 PM
I start to think this is a stupid plot to get some attention for the tournament. :rolleyes:

Alvarillo
10-05-2005, 09:39 PM
I start to think this is a stupid plot to get some attention for the tournament. :rolleyes:

it's not necessary cos the there's no available tickets for QFs, SFs and Final ... the 9600 seats are sold ...
but i don't understand Tiriac position! :mad:

Mechlan
10-05-2005, 09:45 PM
"It has nothing to do with money," Casla told Tennis Week. "It is not a money issue at all. We are taking the position we have to take in support of the sport."

Such BS. This is to show their support of the ATP... even though the ATP itself wants them to hold the doubles event? Nice going, Madrid. Way to stick to your principles.

Angle Queen
10-05-2005, 09:55 PM
I start to think this is a stupid plot to get some attention for the tournament. :rolleyes:Methinks you're on to something here. It'll be interesting to see if the ATP follows through with their threat to change Madrid's 'membership' status. It doesn't appear, though, that there's any direct financial penalty/fine.

K-Dog
10-05-2005, 10:37 PM
I really have no problem with this. Why don't these doubles players learn how to play singles? I mean, come on now. If the top 20 singles players all partnered up, BYE BYE doubles specialist on top of the double's rankings. They just simply aren't as good as the singles players. Any of the top doubles players except those who play singles would get ***** by a good singles player in a singles match. THEY ARE SECOND CLASS PLAYERS PEOPLE. Doubles is for players who can't cover the court that well, have no groudstrokes, and can't play for themselves on a court. That is why the top ten singles players are ALL better than the top ten doubles players. I speak from experience. I play high school tennis and I'm a top singles player on my team. It is like watching two different groups of talent between our doubles players and singles players. That goes for any team. Us singles players are supreme tennis players, period. In the past when the top players played doubles, this would never have happened.

Not to mention the money is all in singles. Who cares about non-household names and why would any sponsor care to invest in doubles unless the Williams sisters are playing. Doubles is for cop-out players, plain and simple. They were never gopd enough to play singles, so they took up doubles. That is why the middle age and older people all play doubles, because they aren't good enough to play singles!! Who cares what Madrid decided to do. I personally find doubles boring and a cop-out for players who weren't good enough to play singles.

delsa
10-05-2005, 10:40 PM
:retard: another U turn already...

Mechlan
10-05-2005, 10:43 PM
Methinks you're on to something here. It'll be interesting to see if the ATP follows through with their threat to change Madrid's 'membership' status. It doesn't appear, though, that there's any direct financial penalty/fine.

Good point. The conspiracy theorist in me can totally see the ATP pulling the strings behind this one. All it has to do is threaten Madrid without actually taking action, all while standing behind its official stance of promoting doubles.

mangoes
10-05-2005, 11:47 PM
Such BS. This is to show their support of the ATP... even though the ATP itself wants them to hold the doubles event? Nice going, Madrid. Way to stick to your principles.


I think the ATP has known about Madrid's intentions all along and are using it to play a game of good cops, bad cops, to get their point across about the doubles.

michelleg
10-06-2005, 12:08 AM
. I speak from experience. I play high school tennis and I'm a top singles player on my team.

I almost choked on my last bite of dinner whilst contemplating your vast experience in life. Before you go denigrating the careers of tennis professionals (which you are NOT) you would do better to contemplate who you are taking to your Homecoming dance.

Timariot
10-06-2005, 12:12 AM
I think the ATP has known about Madrid's intentions all along and are using it to play a game of good cops, bad cops, to get their point across about the doubles.

I like a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy, but that is not really ATP style...they are hell-bent to avoid any public controversy and present 'we are all big happy family and everything is going swell' image to media and public. Even individual players criticizing their actions are usually quickly suppressed or ignored to death.

Basically, it looks to me like the in charge of things is bit of a McMahon-type character who enjoys a good show and little controversy and likes to act tough. This apparent confusion "we won't hold the doubles/yes we will/no we wont" seems to imply lack of coherent governing within the tournament and/or that it is really a one-man show.

ATP may be clashing with the doubles players, but they absolutely cannot afford director of one of their biggest showcase events to openly defy them and doing stuff like this outside of ATP decisionmaking cycle. Or so they think, anyway. If tournament director doesn't change his stance, ATP may well decide that he is a liability rather than asset and ask Madrid to replace him some more co-operative person.

s.m.
10-06-2005, 12:13 AM
this is becoming very interesting
war between atp and their own masters tournament that wants to go solo in throwing out the doubles, under the hilarious pretense that they are doing it for tennis and atp
that is one of the crazyest thing i have ever heard

Timariot
10-06-2005, 12:20 AM
I really have no problem with this. Why don't these doubles players learn how to play singles? I mean, come on now. If the top 20 singles players all partnered up, BYE BYE doubles specialist on top of the double's rankings.


Yeah, I'm sure this is why singles teams regularly lose to doubles specialists in Davis Cup.


They just simply aren't as good as the singles players. Any of the top doubles players except those who play singles would get ***** by a good singles player in a singles match. THEY ARE SECOND CLASS PLAYERS PEOPLE.


That's really funny coming from someone who plays high school tennis - you are not even ranked! You would not win a game against any ranked singles or doubles player. In fact, you would struggle to win more than 3 to 4 points. That is, if you actually indeed are a player - you appear to be so clueless that I doubt you have ever held a racquet.


Not to mention the money is all in singles. Who cares about non-household names and why would any sponsor care to invest in doubles unless the Williams sisters are playing.

Williams sisters were not even close of being the biggest doubles act.

You are so completely wrong on every issue that I suspect that this is just a parody, and I am missing the subtle sarcasm. Right?

Deivid23
10-06-2005, 12:24 AM
Tiriac only cares about money and Santana is like a puppet there, anyone surprised?

Deboogle!.
10-06-2005, 12:24 AM
and yet a THIRD Article from Tennis Week
----------------------------
Madrid Stands By Decision To Dump Doubles

By Richard Pagliaro
10/06/2005

The Tennis Masters Series Madrid is still saying no mas to doubles. The tournament has received the ATP's decree that it must host a doubles event, but is steadfastly standing by its decision to eliminate doubles unless the "antitrust lawsuit brought by 45 doubles players against the ATP and its Board of Directors Members is withdrawn or resolved" by the October 17th start of the tournament.

Hours after the ATP issued a statement ordering Madrid officials to stage a doubles competition at the tournament, a tournament spokesperson told Tennis Week, Madrid officials have no plans to host doubles unless the lawsuit is settled. Madrid officials bounced the ball back into the court of the litigants in saying the players must settle the suit against the ATP before they will consent to host the doubles event.

"We received the communication (from the ATP) and we still maintain our position of not having it (doubles)," Madrid Director of Communications Cecilia Casla told Tennis Week Wednesday afternoon. "We hope there is maybe some reaction or response from the players (to settle the suit). As I said: we are still in the same position as we were yesterday (when the tournament announced it was suspending doubles). Nothing has changed."

The comments came just hours after the ATP ordered Madrid to stage a doubles event in accordance with Tour rules.

"The ATP was unaware of the Masters Series Madrid’s decision to announce that they planned to suspend their doubles competition in support of the ATP, which has been sued by a number of doubles players," the ATP told Tennis Week in a statement Wednesday morning. "Irrespective of the tournament’s motivation, they have been advised that they are not in a position to unilaterally make such changes. Therefore, we have informed Madrid tournament management that they must hold a doubles event."

When informed Madrid officials said they maintain their stance of suspending doubles, an ATP spokesman said the Tour "adamantly stands by our statement. The statement speaks for itself."

In announcing the decision to dump doubles on Tuesday, Masters Series Madrid General Manager Gerard Tsobanian said in a statement. "Doubles matches at ATP tournaments around the world go on unnoticed, attracting very small crowds. By making it more accessible to top singles players, with a new format and short matches we feel that this competition will become more attractive to the fans. We consider that the lawsuit filed by these 45 doubles players makes no sense and therefore it is not coherent for us to organize the doubles draw this year in Madrid with these same players while they are in the middle of a lawsuit against the ATP, of which we are members."

It is estimated that the tournament can potentially save up to $400,000 by eliminating doubles. Tsobanian said if the lawsuit brought by the players is not settled by October 17th "the organization of the Masters Series Madrid will cancel the doubles competition and will donate 50 percent of the doubles prize money (about $202,726) to the ATP Player's Retirement Plan."

Madrid officials rejected the suggestion eliminating doubles may be a cost-cutting measure to save the tournament money by eliminating doubles prize money.

"It has nothing to do with money," Casla told Tennis Week. "It is not a money issue at all. We are taking the position we have to take in support of the sport."

Essentially, Madrid officials are saying they have suspended doubles in support of the ATP, but their decision to eliminate doubles violates the ATP's own rules and public statement on the issue.

Rule 2.03 in the 2005 Official ATP Rulebook states: "Any ATP or Challenger Series Tournament that defaults in payment of prize money or tournament fee or any other payments due to the ATP may have its membership status (sanctioned status if a Challenger Series Tournament) changed subject to ATP Bylaws."

When asked how the tournament would respond if the ATP takes its case to court in an effort to enforce its own rules and require Madrid to stage a doubles tournament, the spokesperson replied: "Now, we're getting into legal territory, which I can't comment on."

Though the tournament has not wavered in its stance of suspending doubles, singles players will have company on court: the tournament does plan to bring back the Hugo Boss-sponsored models to serve as ball girls.

Deivid23
10-06-2005, 12:30 AM
puff

I 'm ashamed of being spaniard :o

the things that happen in this country are not normal, honestly.

No need to, jerks are everywhere, included Spain ;)

Deivid23
10-06-2005, 12:33 AM
it's not necessary cos the there's no available tickets for QFs, SFs and Final ... the 9600 seats are sold ...
but i don't understand Tiriac position! :mad:

Why don´t u understand Tiriac position? He´s always cared only about money, nothing else

Via
10-06-2005, 12:48 AM
whoa! i missed this thread for a day, and so much has happened! what drama! all this power struggle between doubles players <-> atp <-> tournament director is so very enticing... :drool:

i don't think the atp is playing 'good cop' here. they have everything to lose if they lose control over players, and now a rebellious tournament.

too funny that madrid decides to spend money on models rather than on players. what do they expect spectators to watch, really? they might as well wind up the tournament and re-invest in catwalks and fashion shows. if it's all about money and not the tennis then it might be a better business for them.

Deivid23
10-06-2005, 12:56 AM
too funny that madrid decides to spend money on models rather than on players. what do they expect spectators to watch, really? they might as well wind up the tournament and re-invest in catwalks and fashion shows. if it's all about money and not the tennis then it might be a better business for them.

As far as I know models cost 0€ to AMS Madrid, they´re paid by Hugo Boss :shrug:

Via
10-06-2005, 01:21 AM
oh, thanks for the info. so there's one more party/stakeholder to this power game. the sponsors. should have remembered where all that money comes from.

still it's up to tennis organisers to choose which benefactors that can truly help tennis.

bavaria100
10-06-2005, 01:29 AM
Blah, blah, blah. That´s all I have to say to the stupid directors of this tourney. Tiriac is a clown and only interested in $$$$$$$$$$$$. That was the only reason why he sold the Stuttgart tourney to Madrid in the first place. IMO, the top singles players should get together and boycott this tourney. It would be very interesting to see how this clown would react. I mean, they are extorting the doubles players ("You are only allowed to play here if you withdraw your lawsuit"). These people live from the sport and it´s a shame that they want to shut them out. In my eyes, this tourney isn´t worthy of the TMS status right now.

K-Dog
10-06-2005, 01:31 AM
Yeah, I'm sure this is why singles teams regularly lose to doubles specialists in Davis Cup.



That's really funny coming from someone who plays high school tennis - you are not even ranked! You would not win a game against any ranked singles or doubles player. In fact, you would struggle to win more than 3 to 4 points. That is, if you actually indeed are a player - you appear to be so clueless that I doubt you have ever held a racquet.



Williams sisters were not even close of being the biggest doubles act.

You are so completely wrong on every issue that I suspect that this is just a parody, and I am missing the subtle sarcasm. Right?

Okay, name a bigger doubles act at the moment. Whenever the sisters play, they are huge with fans, period. Next of all, you don't know me, so don't think u know how much I play. In fact I was just hitting with my teams no.1 singles player. I'm saying that in general, doubles specialist are no where near as talented as good singles players. I'm not saying I'm great, but i know tennis. I am the captain of our team, and I have only been playing since I was a sophomore, and now I'm a no.2 singles player with no real consistent lessons, just teaching myself and hitting with teammates. Who are you to speak anyways? How good are u? You must be a doubles player, because otherwise you wouldn't be so upset. I've never lost to a doubles player in a match in singles. Heck during try-outs last season, my coach made myself and our no.1 play our no.1 doubles team and we won 2 of 3 matches. About the doubles specialists always beating the singles players, what happened in Croatia vs. US this year in Davis Cup? If singles teams would practice doubles together more, they could easily take out most of the top doubles teams. Like anyone would beat Roger and some other top tenner that played consistently together? I think not!!

star
10-06-2005, 01:34 AM
I'm so glad this happened in Spain instead of the U.S.

:angel:

K-Dog
10-06-2005, 01:35 AM
I almost choked on my last bite of dinner whilst contemplating your vast experience in life. Before you go denigrating the careers of tennis professionals (which you are NOT) you would do better to contemplate who you are taking to your Homecoming dance.

Uh, just went to homecoming on Saturday and had a blast thank you. I can say as I wish about tennis professionals. They are better than me, but I take school seriously (3.9 GPA says it all), have a live outside of tennis (captain of the boys team) didn't start playing competively until my sophomore year (i'm a senior now) and I want to be a dermatologist in the future. Sorry, no time to be a tennis professional.

mangoes
10-06-2005, 01:40 AM
I like a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy, but that is not really ATP style...they are hell-bent to avoid any public controversy and present 'we are all big happy family and everything is going swell' image to media and public. Even individual players criticizing their actions are usually quickly suppressed or ignored to death.

Basically, it looks to me like the in charge of things is bit of a McMahon-type character who enjoys a good show and little controversy and likes to act tough. This apparent confusion "we won't hold the doubles/yes we will/no we wont" seems to imply lack of coherent governing within the tournament and/or that it is really a one-man show.

ATP may be clashing with the doubles players, but they absolutely cannot afford director of one of their biggest showcase events to openly defy them and doing stuff like this outside of ATP decisionmaking cycle. Or so they think, anyway. If tournament director doesn't change his stance, ATP may well decide that he is a liability rather than asset and ask Madrid to replace him some more co-operative person.

I didn't offer a conspiracy theory so kindly don't define my previous post as such. I am not as knowledgable as others about tennis, but what I do know is business.

There is no way Madrid did this without someone in the ATP having previous knowledge. This is merely a tactic to scare the doubles player. There is no conspiracy, it's called business and I've seen enough back door deals to know one when I see one. Just the wording being used tells me this is nothing but a move to back the doubles players into a corner. The doubles players think they have the atp against the wall. This move is to show them that isn't the case and I would have done a similar thing if placed in such a "business" position.

The reality is the different tournament directors want the doubles rules changed. There is a unity on that front. So Madrid cuts the doubles saying comply or we'll cut you. The ATP says, Madrid stick by the rules or else. Well, or else really, what? Do you really think thought hasn't been put into this move. So let's say Madrid doesn't allow the doubles and fans don't make a fuss. The ATP can say for the record, we are sanctioning Madrid. However, other tournaments can do the same thing. What is the ATP going to do, discredit every tournament over doubles? Not likely, afterall, that'll be the end of the ATP tour. So, look at the bigger picture. This is nothing more than a business move to deal with some doubles players.

Oh and out of curiousity, name a more popular doubles pairing in the US other than when the Williams sisters played together, within a span of the previous 5 years.

michelleg
10-06-2005, 01:58 AM
Uh, just went to homecoming on Saturday and had a blast thank you. I can say as I wish about tennis professionals. They are better than me, but I take school seriously (3.9 GPA says it all), have a live outside of tennis (captain of the boys team) didn't start playing competively until my sophomore year (i'm a senior now) and I want to be a dermatologist in the future. Sorry, no time to be a tennis professional.

Good luck with your aspirations and med school, you have a great deal to learn and experience in the years ahead. Now just remember that when grownups are speaking, its not nice for children to needlessly interrupt.

Deboogle!.
10-06-2005, 03:13 AM
interesting piece from the London Times
==================
Doubles trouble leads Madrid Masters to threaten cancellation
By Neil Harman

NEW and potentially damaging battle lines over the future of doubles on the ATP Tour were drawn yesterday when the Masters Series tournament in Madrid this month decided to drop the event unless the present lawsuit by leading doubles players against the men’s governing body is withdrawn before Monday week.

It is the most severe response yet to the decision of 45 players to sue the ATP over what it regards as a move to squeeze the lifeblood out of doubles by shortening matches and demeaning its specialists. The three-week experiment with doubles — which started in Vietnam and Beijing last week — involves tie-breaks when the score reaches 5-5 and a ten-point tie-break instead of a deciding third set.

Gérard Tsobanian, the general manager of the Madrid Masters tournament, said yesterday: “We believe the ATP’s new rules will help doubles grow and lift this great competition out of the dark hole it is in. Doubles matches at ATP tournaments around the world go unnoticed and attract very small crowds (except at tournaments where doubles are properly promoted, then they attract nice crowds) and by making them accessible to more top singles players with a new format and shorter matches, we feel it can become more attractive to the fans. (except that most of the top singles players say this won't encourage them to play more doubles)

“We consider that the current lawsuit being filed makes no sense and therefore it is not coherent for us to organise a doubles draw in Madrid when these same players are involved in a lawsuit against the ATP, of which we are a member.” (But, so are the players. In fact, it is supposed to be THEIR association, not yours. And this original decision was made with zero support from them.)

At the very least, the decision to drop the doubles event will save the organisers about £150,000 in prize-money, a sum that grows when assistance from the tournaments in providing accommodation, food and transport for 32 “extra” players who are unlikely to figure in the singles draw is factored in. The doubles players are bound to regard this as a red rag to a bull, designed to show them exactly what tournaments think of them and why the rush to kill them off is seen simply a means of saving the sport money.

It also places the remaining Masters Series event in Paris, starting on October 31, in an invidious position and will cast a shadow over the Masters Cup event in Shanghai in November, when the best eight singles players and doubles teams are showcased. The Madrid tournament — although it has said that it will donate half the doubles prize-money to the ATP Players’ Retirement Fund if there is no resolution of the lawsuit — has taken a calculated risk, one less worrisome because it has such huge drawcards as Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal, Andy Roddick, Carlos Moyà and Juan Carlos Ferrero in its singles field.

It is a supreme irony that, three years ago, the celebrated Andre Agassi won the title on a walkover when Jiri Novak, of the Czech Republic, pulled up lame on the morning of the final. What did the tournament put in its place to fill the schedules? The doubles final.:o:o:o:o

Dux
10-06-2005, 03:20 AM
Oh and out of curiousity, name a more popular doubles pairing in the US other than when the Williams sisters played together, within a span of the previous 5 years.

How about Anna Kournikova & Martina Hingis? :p

El Legenda
10-06-2005, 03:24 AM
I really have no problem with this. Why don't these doubles players learn how to play singles? I mean, come on now. If the top 20 singles players all partnered up, BYE BYE doubles specialist on top of the double's rankings. They just simply aren't as good as the singles players. Any of the top doubles players except those who play singles would get ***** by a good singles player in a singles match. THEY ARE SECOND CLASS PLAYERS PEOPLE. Doubles is for players who can't cover the court that well, have no groudstrokes, and can't play for themselves on a court. That is why the top ten singles players are ALL better than the top ten doubles players. I speak from experience. I play high school tennis and I'm a top singles player on my team. It is like watching two different groups of talent between our doubles players and singles players. That goes for any team. Us singles players are supreme tennis players, period. In the past when the top players played doubles, this would never have happened.

Not to mention the money is all in singles. Who cares about non-household names and why would any sponsor care to invest in doubles unless the Williams sisters are playing. Doubles is for cop-out players, plain and simple. They were never gopd enough to play singles, so they took up doubles. That is why the middle age and older people all play doubles, because they aren't good enough to play singles!! Who cares what Madrid decided to do. I personally find doubles boring and a cop-out for players who weren't good enough to play singles.

:haha: OMG STFU, trying to compare highschool tennis to ATP, so if you still play in highschool, and not Challengers, i bet you any doubles player in TOP 100 could smoke you in singles, hey i didnt even play tennis in highschool i could beat you,

K-Dog
10-06-2005, 03:39 AM
:haha: OMG STFU, trying to compare highschool tennis to ATP, so if you still play in highschool, and not Challengers, i bet you any doubles player in TOP 100 could smoke you in singles, hey i didnt even play tennis in highschool i could beat you,

Okay, if we could set it up, we would. You've never even seen me play. I realize that any pro player would kick my ass, DUH!! Most people on here would get their ass kicked by pro players, but we still comment on them. As I said, I just started competive play about 2-3 years ago. I'm pretty damn good not to toot my own horn. For a high school season, I finished 25-7. I'm sorry, you wouldn't beat me. I'm like the third or fourth best high school player at my club. I guarentee you, if you didn't play during your high school years, that means you lost valuable time to develop your game when you were at your physical peak. I'm the captain of a Conference Co-Championship team, that just isn't given to anyone. Still looking at it, most pro doubles players would get their ass kicked by most top 100 singles players. Doubles players just aren't as good as singles players when comparing each level of players against their peers. Plus, I don't practice every day, I GO TO SCHOOL. I have a 3.9 GPA, 4 AP courses, and I want to be a doctor in the future. I'm sorry but I want to be something that is very hard to be and something that helps people. I can't practice tennis 24/7 like most pros and I wasn't started at like age 4. I have a life unlike most tennis pros.

El Legenda
10-06-2005, 03:48 AM
Okay, if we could set it up, we would. You've never even seen me play. I realize that any pro player would kick my ass, DUH!! Most people on here would get their ass kicked by pro players, but we still comment on them. As I said, I just started competive play about 2-3 years ago. I'm pretty damn good not to toot my own horn. For a high school season, I finished 25-7. I'm sorry, you wouldn't beat me. I'm like the third or fourth best high school player at my club. I guarentee you, if you didn't play during your high school years, that means you lost valuable time to develop your game when you were at your physical peak. I'm the captain of a Conference Co-Championship team, that just isn't given to anyone. Still looking at it, most pro doubles players would get their ass kicked by most top 100 singles players. Doubles players just aren't as good as singles players when comparing each level of players against their peers. Plus, I don't practice every day, I GO TO SCHOOL. I have a 3.9 GPA, 4 AP courses, and I want to be a doctor in the future. I'm sorry but I want to be something that is very hard to be and something that helps people. I can't practice tennis 24/7 like most pros and I wasn't started at like age 4. I have a life unlike most tennis pros.

hahaha 25-7 in highschool, well if there were 7 players better then you in one school district, you take that with 5000+ school districts in US. all that= you are pretty shitty,

K-Dog
10-06-2005, 04:03 AM
hahaha 25-7 in highschool, kid there is over 10,000 highschool in USA.
hey plz post when those college scholarships start flying in, I played baseball in high school, and was all-conference player of year, but when you play in city with about 25 of those, you go to college and became the stat boy of baseball team :lol:

Who said I take sports that seriously? I play hard and am serious on the court, but education is my main thing. With my major, I'd rather not have to worry about training and playing matches. Once high school is done, I'm done with competive sports. I haven't been playing tennis long enough to get a scholarship or even care about one. I was exceptional at volleyball, until i didn't go out this year, my senior year, because of issues i had with the team and the coach. I would've been captain as well. I played on the shitties team and I hated losing as well. Nothing I did was good enough to help the lack of talent that came out for boy's volleyball. I'm sorry that I have no time to play a ton of tennis, but I'm good enough to play at a high level in high school. Do you ignore the fact that I'm trying maintain a 3.9 GPA with 4 AP courses. I want to be a doctor, not a great tennis player.

K-Dog
10-06-2005, 04:06 AM
hahaha 25-7 in highschool, well if there were 7 players better then you in one school district, you take that with 5000+ school districts in US. all that= you are pretty shitty,

way to change your post!! um, those losses came from players all over the state. I'm not shitty at all. Everyone loses matches. Who said they were better, just better on that day. Plus I started my season slow, and finished very strong. In case you don't know i only had one loss in conference, the only 6 came from players across the state.

El Legenda
10-06-2005, 04:07 AM
Do you ignore the fact that I'm trying maintain a 3.9 GPA with 4 AP courses. I want to be a doctor, not a great tennis player.

Holy shit really? i finished highschool with 4.00 with 28 college credits. then i took 3 more the summer aftet senior year, and i went from senior in h/s to 18year sophmore in college.

K-Dog
10-06-2005, 04:15 AM
Holy shit really? i finished highschool with 4.00 with 28 college credits. then i took 3 more the summer aftet senior year, and i went from senior in h/s to 18year sophmore in college.

Good for u!! Where did u go to high school? What was your grading scale? (100-95 is an A, 94-92 is an A-, very hard to maintain A's and I would be getting a 4.0 too if I attended a different school district) What college did u attend? Did your classes get weighted or not? Anyway what you did is very hard, so congrats. I wouldn't call myself dumb compared to you as we didn't go to the same high school. I live in Wisconsin, one of the best states in the nation for public schools. I go to Franklin High School, one of the toughest school districts in the state. We don't even have weighted grades for AP's. Anyway, not to take anything away from you. What you did was great, but i don't envy u because I know why my grades aren't higher, although compared to others in my class, I'm a genious.

Chloe le Bopper
10-06-2005, 04:19 AM
Good for u!! Where did u go to high school? What was your grading scale? (100-95 is an A, 94-92 is an A-, very hard to maintain A's and I would be getting a 4.0 too if I attended a different school district) What college did u attend? Did your classes get weighted or not? Anyway what you did is very hard, so congrats. I wouldn't call myself dumb compared to you as we didn't go to the same high school. I live in Wisconsin, one of the best states in the nation for public schools. I go to Franklin High School, one of the toughest school districts in the state. We don't even have weighted grades for AP's. Anyway, not to take anything away from you. What you did was great, but i don't envy u because I know why my grades aren't higher, although compared to others in my class, I'm a genious.
Way, way, waaaayy too easy ;)

El Legenda
10-06-2005, 04:22 AM
Good for u!! Where did u go to high school? What was your grading scale? (100-95 is an A, 94-92 is an A-, very hard to maintain A's and I would be getting a 4.0 too if I attended a different school district) What college did u attend? Did your classes get weighted or not? Anyway what you did is very hard, so congrats. I wouldn't call myself dumb compared to you as we didn't go to the same high school. I live in Wisconsin, one of the best states in the nation for public schools. I go to Franklin High School, one of the toughest school districts in the state. We don't even have weighted grades for AP's. Anyway, not to take anything away from you. What you did was great, but i don't envy u because I know why my grades aren't higher, although compared to others in my class, I'm a genious.

i went to St.John Highschool(private) St.Louis MO- 100-95A 94-90A-(3.5) I attend U of Missouri-Columbia, also know as Mizzou, #1 school in country for Journlism(my major). I have completed 30hours last year with 3.80 GPA. to go along with my 31 from highschool/summer. anything else you wanna know? I wear boxers, if that helps? :lol:

back to the topic FUCK the ATP. safe dubs :lol:

K-Dog
10-06-2005, 04:23 AM
Way, way, waaaayy too easy ;)

ok, what are u talkibg about? my school district? um, okay try get a 4.0 at our school. the only it is happening is if you plan your schedule right or you have no life outside of school.

El Legenda
10-06-2005, 04:24 AM
ok, what are u talkibg about? my school district? um, okay try get a 4.0 at our school. the only it is happening is if you plan your schedule right or you have no life outside of school.

watch who you are talking to, Chloe is one of the smartest women ever to walk to earth.

El Legenda
10-06-2005, 04:27 AM
I'm a genious.

:haha: really a genious?

Scotso
10-06-2005, 04:27 AM
The ATP needs to shorten the leash with this guy before he makes a mockery of them. I have no doubt that the doubles players being forced out of such a big event can sue the ATP for this, and the ATP cannot handle another lawsuit.

This might be time for those players to step up who wanted to start a new tour. Was it Ferreira?

Chloe le Bopper
10-06-2005, 04:27 AM
ok, what are u talkibg about? my school district? um, okay try get a 4.0 at our school. the only it is happening is if you plan your schedule right or you have no life outside of school.
Hehe! That's not what I was talking about ;)

K-Dog
10-06-2005, 04:28 AM
i went to St.John Highschool(private) St.Louis MO- 100-95A 94-90A-(3.5) I attend U of Missouri-Columbia, also know as Mizzou, #1 school in country for Journlism(my major). I have completed 30hours last year with 3.80 GPA. to go along with my 31 from highschool/summer. anything else you wanna know? I wear boxers, if that helps? :lol:

back to the topic FUCK the ATP. safe dubs :lol:

Hey I was just asking. I said want u did was great!! My major will be pre-med at either Minnesota or Wisconsin. Wisconsin is one of the top in medicine (I'm not sure quite where though). Anyway good luck with college and doing whatever u do with your journalism degree!!

El Legenda
10-06-2005, 04:29 AM
also good luck to with you with highschool and spelling.

K-Dog
10-06-2005, 04:30 AM
watch who you are talking to, Chloe is one of the smartest women ever to walk to earth.

Not here enough to know. If she got better grades than me, I don't care!! Good for her!!

El Legenda
10-06-2005, 04:31 AM
Not here enough to know. If she got better grades than me, I don't care!! Good for her!!

She didnt even go to school, all by herself.

Scotso
10-06-2005, 04:31 AM
Hey I was just asking. I said want u did was great!! My major will be pre-med at either Minnesota or Wisconsin. Wisconsin is one of the top in medicine (I'm not sure quite where though). Anyway good luck with college and doing whatever u do with your journalism degree!!

Remind me to never get sick in Minnesota or Wisconsin.

Scotso
10-06-2005, 04:32 AM
Not here enough to know. If she got better grades than me, I don't care!! Good for her!!

Surely a genius such as yourself knows that getting good grades and being intelligent are two very different things.

El Legenda
10-06-2005, 04:33 AM
I'm a genious.

:haha: really a genious?

so want to tell us, what you mean by that?

Chloe le Bopper
10-06-2005, 04:33 AM
Surely a genius such as yourself knows that getting good grades and being intelligent are two very different things.
He's not a genius, he's a genious. There is a difference, see.

El Legenda
10-06-2005, 04:34 AM
Genious are on a different level. there 3.90 is 15.00 for us.

K-Dog
10-06-2005, 04:34 AM
:haha: really a genious?

who said my major was in journalism. i know it is genius, SORRY!

K-Dog
10-06-2005, 04:36 AM
Surely a genius such as yourself knows that getting good grades and being intelligent are two very different things.

very true!! The whole genius thing is cliche. People call me that who don't get good grades or who aren't that smart. I'm NO genius!!

El Legenda
10-06-2005, 04:39 AM
My work is done here. Have a nice night. Hugs No Drugs. :bigwave:

K-Dog
10-06-2005, 04:40 AM
Remind me to never get sick in Minnesota or Wisconsin.

Um, i guess being a dermatologist I probably won't see you if you get sick. We have our own offices and are usually by appointment only, unless it is an extreme emergency. You'll be going to a general hospital, unless you get a skin conditon. I have to be smart enough to get into med-school, because they just don't let anyone into med-school. When I get a patient, I'll do my best.

Scotso
10-06-2005, 04:44 AM
very true!! The whole genius thing is cliche. People call me that who don't get good grades or who aren't that smart. I'm NO genius!!

Really?!

El Legenda
10-06-2005, 04:45 AM
very true!! The whole genius thing is cliche. People call me that who don't get good grades or who aren't that smart. I'm NO genius!!

you got me :speakles:

RickDaStick
10-06-2005, 04:45 AM
i went to St.John Highschool(private) St.Louis MO- 100-95A 94-90A-(3.5) I attend U of Missouri-Columbia, also know as Mizzou, #1 school in country for Journlism(my major). I have completed 30hours last year with 3.80 GPA. to go along with my 31 from highschool/summer. anything else you wanna know? I wear boxers, if that helps? :lol:

back to the topic FUCK the ATP. safe dubs :lol:

Doesn't majoring in Journalism require you to spell atleast journalism right? I guess not.

El Legenda
10-06-2005, 04:51 AM
Doesn't majoring in Journalism require you to spell atleast journalism right? I guess not.

not broadcasting ;)

Deboogle!.
10-06-2005, 05:03 AM
Uh right, so those poor doubles players....

El Legenda
10-06-2005, 05:18 AM
Uh right, so those poor doubles players....

:lol: it was a slow night, i had to find a kid to give hard time ;)

K-Dog
10-06-2005, 05:44 AM
:lol: it was a slow night, i had to find a kid to give hard time ;)
thanks a lot!!

El Legenda
10-06-2005, 05:48 AM
thanks a lot!!
;) :wavey:

Lee
10-06-2005, 06:00 AM
:rolls: Thanks for the entertainment and adding a few vcash to my account.

It's so nice that there are still kids living in a bubble/very protected world these days. The children are exposed to this real harsh world too early, IMHO.

Timariot
10-06-2005, 09:12 AM
Okay, name a bigger doubles act at the moment. Whenever the sisters play, they are huge with fans, period.


At the moment? How is that relevant, given that sisters don't play doubles anymore and haven't done it for quite some time. But to answer, Hingis-Kournikova were easily bigger than the Williamses.

About the doubles specialists always beating the singles players, what happened in Croatia vs. US this year in Davis Cup? If singles teams would practice doubles together more, they could easily take out most of the top doubles teams. Like anyone would beat Roger and some other top tenner that played consistently together? I think not!!

Remember what happened to Australia when they paired Hewitt/Rafter for doubles match in the final? They lost, that's what happened. When Agassi and Roddick paired for 1 or 2 tournaments, they lost early.

Margy
10-06-2005, 04:54 PM
Does anyone know if the doubles players who filed the original lawsuit have come out with any statements about this? They've had a couple of days to do something but I haven't seen anything. I would think that they would be able to sue the tournament and the tournament director.

Since the ATP has officially stated that Madrid does not have the power to make that decision and if they do it, they will be violating ATP regulations; then it should be easy enough for the players to win a lawsuit against the tournament and receive their prize money even if they end up not being able to play. I can't see how the tournament could win a lawsuit when the ATP organization itself is against cancelling doubles. The tournament officials have no supporting argument whatsoever.

It would be really funny if they cancel doubles and give 1/2 the prize money to the retirement fund. Then they lose a lawsuit and have to award the full prize money to the players who would have qualified. :lol:

Deboogle!.
10-07-2005, 09:13 PM
Doubles is back at Madrid.... for now.
====================
Madrid Reinstates Doubles

By Richard Pagliaro
10/08/2005

The Tennis Masters Series-Madrid won't be strictly a singles scene this month. Tournament organizers announced today they will host a doubles event at the tournament, which begins on October 17th. The announcement apparently ends a standoff between the ATP and Madrid officials over the tournament's decision to suspend doubles play in an announcement on Wednesday.

Madrid tournament organizers told Tennis Week the ATP's confirmation that it will renew discussions with lawyers representing the 45 doubles players who have filed an anti-trust lawsuit against the ATP prompted the decision to reinstate doubles at the event.

"The ATP has confirmed that discussions with the representatives of the 45 players that filed an anti trust lawsuit will take place in the coming days in an aim to resolve the conflict," Gerard Tsobanian, General Manager of the Masters Series Madrid, told Tennis Week in a statement. "We fully support the ATP on the reforms that have been approved to better showcase the doubles game. We have received confirmation from the ATP that discussions to solve the conflict away from the tribunals will take place shortly. In view of this information we have decided to restore the doubles competition this year in Madrid. However, we do not believe that it is acceptable that a small group of doubles players should attempt to influence by use of legal action the decision of the ATP Board as the governing body of men’s professional tennis. The ATP board has a duty to make decisions in the best interests of the sport which includes both tournaments and players. We expect the doubles reforms passed by the ATP Board at the U.S. Open to be implemented."

Tennis Week has contacted Madrid officials for further comment.

On September 1st, several highly-ranked doubles players joined forces as plaintiffs in filing a lawsuit in a Southern District Texas Federal Court against the ATP and members of its board of directors. Grand Slam doubles champions Mark Knowles, Bob Bryan, Mike Bryan, Mahesh Bhupathi and Jonas Bjorkman are among the players voicing their opposition to the ATP's new experimental scoring system that shrinks doubles sets to five games rather than six with a tiebreaker at 4-4. Additionally, an ATP initiative proposed to go into effect in 2008 would permit only the top six to eight doubles teams entry into tournaments, while denying lower-ranked doubles players entry into in tournaments if they did not also qualify for the singles draws.

The players' lawsuit alleges that the ATP's proposed experimental efforts to "enhance" doubles competition is in fact a concerted effort by tournament directors to diminish and eventually eliminate doubles players' ability to gain entry into main draws as a cost-cutting measure to save the tournament's money. The international law firm of Fulbright & Jaworski L.L.P. and the Houston-based firm of Ellis, Carstarphen, Dougherty & Goldenthal P.C. filed suit on behalf of many of the top doubles players, identifying them in court papers as a "submarket" of the men's professional tour and alleging that the ATP's directors have "violated their fiduciary obligations to the players by enacting rules that prevent doubles players from competing, contrary to the express wishes of the players." Furthermore, the suit seeks an injunction to "stop the ATP's and its directors' alleged unlawful and anti competitive conduct against athletes who excel in doubles. The players charge the ATP and its directors with antitrust violations and breaches of fiduciary duties."

In response to the players' lawsuit against the ATP, Madrid officials, who turned the court into a catwalk in hiring models to work as ball girls last year, announced on Wednesday it would not host a doubles competition at the tournament until "the antitrust lawsuit brought by 45 doubles players against the ATP and its Board of Directors Members is withdrawn or resolved."

Essentially, the tournament was stating it would stage a lock out to prevent doubles players from participating.

On Wednesday, the ATP announced it was ordering Madrid to host a doubles event in accordance with Tour rules. But hours after the ATP's announcement, Madrid tournament officials defiantly defied the decree, telling Tennis Week "We received the communication (from the ATP) and we still maintain our position of not having it (doubles). We hope there is maybe some reaction or response from the players (to settle the suit). As I said: we are still in the same position as we were yesterday (when the tournament announced it was suspending doubles). Nothing has changed."

That statement create a public relations embarrassment for an organization already under fire from some of its own constituents who believe the ATP's announced intention to "enhance" doubles is really the first step in an attempt to possibly eliminate doubles.

The growing gulf between some tournaments — who contend doubles is a financial drain that does not draw fans, sell tickets or generate television ratings — and the doubles players — who are fighting for their jobs and the future of doubles — puts the ATP in the precarious position of trying to mediate a resolution between its own members and the tournaments which pay for their place on the Tour schedule, while fighting a lawsuit from the very players it was created to represent.

It is estimated that the tournament could potentially save up to $400,000 by eliminating doubles. While tournament officials insist their initial decision to dump doubles was not a cost-cutting measure, the question remains: why would Madrid attempt to dump doubles without consulting the ATP in the first place? It is possible the entire episode was a publicity ploy to generate attention to the tournament, but that appears unlikely given the fact the ensuing publicity comes at the expense of embarrassing the ATP. Some sources speculate the attempt to eliminate doubles was primarily an economic issue: tournament officials are genuinely outraged by paying for a doubles event that they believe delivers nothing to their bottom line. Others believe the motivation was both economic and political: that Madrid officials were merely voicing the opinion of many tournaments and were attempting to strong arm the litigants into accepting the ATP's proposed rule changes for doubles by taking the extreme position of eliminating doubles.

Today's decision to restore doubles in Madrid may prove to be little more than a temporary truce in the high-stakes shootout between doubles players and ATP tournaments or it may be the first step toward reaching a resolution in a contentious clash between to sides who can't seem to find common ground on the court.

Paul Banks
10-07-2005, 09:18 PM
K-Dog has been caught lying numerous times on wtaworld (like pretending a friend (surprise, with the same writing style!) logged in in his account when he bashed James Blake, because he wasn't able to take the heat after), so I take everything he says with a grain of salt.

cobalt60
10-07-2005, 09:22 PM
Good Madrid should keep the doubles as all other tournies until the end of the season. There is a fight after all as to who gets the last couple of spots for Shanghai

Via
10-08-2005, 01:06 AM
ohhh.. so sorry to know that madrid has to begrudgingly take back the doubles :lol: i wonder how that doubles tournament will go. will there be any fireworks visible on court? gee if that doesn't generate interest in the doubles, nothing will.

i can't see how any tournament thinks that they can go their own way. i would think that there will be plenty of other cities wanting to host a major tennis tournament, even if they have to host doubles to get it. players, on the other hand, are less replacable, but they do have to stick together. power is delicately balanced right now... if this fiasco isn't handled properly, things can get quite messy.

Scotso
10-08-2005, 01:43 AM
Is the director of Madrid the guy that started all these doubles changes or what? And it's not a "small group of doubles players," it's the top doubles players in the world.

I think that this is just what the doubles players needed, really, and they probably have the ATP by the balls now.

*Viva Chile*
10-08-2005, 02:03 AM
Finally... "Habemus duples" :bounce:

Via
10-08-2005, 02:10 AM
yes... madrid says "We fully support the ATP on the reforms that have been approved to better showcase the doubles game." ... and we support such reforms by threatening to cancel the doubles altogether.

that must be the most hypocritical statement in tennis this year.

Angle Queen
10-10-2005, 03:33 PM
bumping to get this back on the first page...for the moment...which is about the status of doubles. Out? In? Out? Now in...:shrug:

Madrid 'supporting' doubles. Yeah, right. :rolleyes: