Bangok Final: Federer vs. Murray: what do you think about the fact that... [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Bangok Final: Federer vs. Murray: what do you think about the fact that...

Nathy
10-01-2005, 12:23 PM
... these 2 players who reached the final were the "less prepared" ones to play this tournament? They both arrived from Switzerland only on mid-Monday!

Thought it could be interesting to know your opinion about this :) Discuss

ClaycourtaZzZz.
10-01-2005, 12:25 PM
I think there will be no bagel.

Saumon
10-01-2005, 12:29 PM
I think there will be no bagel.
do you mean that andy wont bagel roger? :eek: :awww:

Nathy
10-01-2005, 12:31 PM
:lol:

Can anyone answer this more seriously please ;) ? I don't knoe I find this quite weird coz they were the two who would be expecting to have some problems (everything is relative ;) ) due to jetlag and surface change in such a little amount of time...

ClaycourtaZzZz.
10-01-2005, 12:31 PM
No and Andy won't be baggeled

ClaycourtaZzZz.
10-01-2005, 12:32 PM
:lol:

Can anyone answer this more seriously please ;) ? I don't knoe I find this quite weird coz they were the two who would be expecting to have some problems (everything is relative ;) ) due to jetlag and surface change in such a little amount of time...


Both are champions.

Saumon
10-01-2005, 12:36 PM
:lol:

Can anyone answer this more seriously please ;) ? I don't knoe I find this quite weird coz they were the two who would be expecting to have some problems (everything is relative ;) ) due to jetlag and surface change in such a little amount of time...
in bercy in 2002 french commentators were like "cool! marat has to go to shanghai now! :devil: he will never be ready to play the DC final on clay and he'll be to tired :devil: "
we all know what happened :angel: :p

wowfed
10-01-2005, 12:43 PM
Can Andy Murray be the third teenager to beat Federer in 2005 ? If he does there are quite a number of streaks of Fed which will come to an end.. !!!

yomike
10-01-2005, 01:00 PM
My cable channel has finally shown a live match. I was hoping Paradorn would win but he was surely gonna lose to Federer anyway so might as while put a teenager as prey for Heidi. Tommorow I can safely predict Federer will slay the third 18 year-old challenger of the year. And Murray looks like that other Andy, Federer could just think its Roddick on the other side and slay him.

I hate Federer but what can you do?

1sun
10-01-2005, 01:05 PM
for any brits, the bbc are hsowing highlights of the match at 22.55 on sunday on bbc 1 or 2

Timariot
10-01-2005, 01:15 PM
This final is much more interesting than Hewitt-Fed or Paradorn-Fed would have been (though local boy in the finals is always a bonus). Sure, it seems like foregone conclusion that Federer will butcher Murray, but last year he lost to up-and-coming Nadal on hardcourts...so you never know.

R.Federer
10-01-2005, 01:32 PM
What a great finale!

It is good that Roge has seen at least in the doubles how andi plays. I do expect Roge to win, but I think andi will bring his best because he understand that if he really wants the "respect in lockeroom" that he often talks about, there is no better way of getting it

I hope it is great match. ALLEZ ROGE!

Art&Soul
10-01-2005, 01:36 PM
i don't want the streak to be end so Alezz HOPP ROGI @!@

RonE
10-01-2005, 01:37 PM
Roger better be ready for this one :armed:

nobama
10-01-2005, 01:47 PM
Roger better be ready for this one :armed:It's not automatic that he'll win, but he'll be ready for sure. He's well aware of the records he's putting up (or trying to beat). I like it better when he plays someone who's playing well because I think it brings out his best stuff and forces him to "kick it up a notch".

PaulieM
10-01-2005, 01:50 PM
i just hope roger comes out ready to play his best, and if he does that he'll win.

RonE
10-01-2005, 01:56 PM
For someone who has only seen Murray play once (and that was way back in March of this year) what are his main weapons? From the one match I saw him in he seems to have solid groundies and a decent serve but not one shot in particular that packs the extra 'pazzas'.

How has his game developed since then and what were his main strengths so far in Bangkok from what he has shown?

1sun
10-01-2005, 02:01 PM
For someone who has only seen Murray play once (and that was way back in March of this year) what are his main weapons? From the one match I saw him in he seems to have solid groundies and a decent serve but not one shot in particular that packs the extra 'pazzas'.

How has his game developed since then and what were his main strengths so far in Bangkok from what he has shown?
nothing really stands out but has a good all round game and alot can be improved which makes him a very good prospect.
his first serve and and return of sevre are his best weapons but his first serve percentage is very inconsistent. as always if roger brings his best then he will cruise.

Nathy
10-01-2005, 02:03 PM
For someone who has only seen Murray play once (and that was way back in March of this year) what are his main weapons? From the one match I saw him in he seems to have solid groundies and a decent serve but not one shot in particular that packs the extra 'pazzas'.

How has his game developed since then and what were his main strengths so far in Bangkok from what he has shown?

His main weapon is the return I would say. In DC last weekend he returned amazingly (above all during the doubles)...

Dirk
10-01-2005, 02:28 PM
Roger will win this thing. Please what does Andy have that Roger hasn't seen or played against?

R.Federer
10-01-2005, 02:30 PM
I personally have thought that andi is a "less developed" version of hewit at the same age. lot of balls are kept in play, not by the strength or power but by good defense shots.
He is also quite tall but his body is more like leyton's so far and so he seems like he is not that tall

maryam619
10-01-2005, 02:31 PM
roger will win easily:o

kundalini
10-01-2005, 02:45 PM
For someone who has only seen Murray play once (and that was way back in March of this year) what are his main weapons? From the one match I saw him in he seems to have solid groundies and a decent serve but not one shot in particular that packs the extra 'pazzas'.

How has his game developed since then and what were his main strengths so far in Bangkok from what he has shown?

His game is not much changed from Wimbledon/Queens, not sure about March.

In effect he is a player with:

1) a big first serve that rarely goes in, so that's a weakness right now but could be a strength if he could get it in play 60% of the time rather than 45%.

2) fierce groundstrokes on both wings that he rarely uses. A potential strength perhaps. Sometimes he is prepared to take the initiative but more often his play is cautious. When he does unleash these groundstrokes he looks a far better player. He hits his double handed backhand up the line for winners and is fairly reliable on passing shots.

3) excellent return of serve against a fast serve. Taylor Dent hits it pretty hard and Andy's hand/eye co-ordination was good enough to get it in play most of the time in the 2 matches they've played.

4) beautiful touch shots - drop shots, lobs, short angled returns. Might not be worth many points but they suggest that he is better than your average top 50 player.

5) variety. He is not a one pace player. He can slow it down, speed it up, throw in some heavy slice, spins, whatever. If an opponent has unreliable groundstrokes Andy will break them down.

I'm guessing but I imagine you saw Andy on one of those days when he kept his big groundstrokes hidden. Most of the time they are hidden from view. Only when it gets desperate does he tend to take more chances.

Relative to other players (given that most players these days have a big serve and a big forehand) Andy's strengths are his return of serve and his variety.

Sjengster
10-01-2005, 02:48 PM
I personally have thought that andi is a "less developed" version of hewit at the same age. lot of balls are kept in play, not by the strength or power but by good defense shots.
He is also quite tall but his body is more like leyton's so far and so he seems like he is not that tall

A bit more clay-court craft than Hewitt, I think - he often dropshots players to bring 'em in, then passes them cross-court with a looping forehand. There is more spin on his shots than you see with Hewitt, and I think he has the potential to serve slightly bigger too. That and he uses the backhand slice an awful lot, so much so that I sometimes wonder whether he can still hit a topspin backhand (it doesn't look as inept as Feli's, though ;) ).

Nothing there that is absolutely unplayable for Federer, but of course he hasn't seen it before. In doubles yes, but this is a different ball game, and he was getting returns smacked at his feet by Murray all day in that match.

kundalini
10-01-2005, 02:57 PM
... these 2 players who reached the final were the "less prepared" ones to play this tournament? They both arrived from Switzerland only on mid-Monday!

Thought it could be interesting to know your opinion about this :) Discuss

Federer is so good he doesn't need the preparation time.

Murray is in a hurry to breakthrough. He had a target of top 100 which was achievable if he won 2 matches here. So he had a goal and the determination to fight his way through matches.

Physically he may have been struggling at times, but his goal was so close that he didn't give in. Having won his 2nd round match I think he just felt this was a great opportunity for him so he would give it everything.

For most players this is an average tournament. It doesn't matter that much if they lose. For Murray it has become a breakthrough tournament. The preparation factor might have counted against him but it hasn't been such a big effect to cost him matches.

In general preparation matters. But in this instance other factors outweighed it.

ClaycourtaZzZz.
10-01-2005, 02:58 PM
I think it helped Murray to play doubles against Federer.

If Andy can play the big returns and serves he may has a chance to beat Federer.
I saw that he has problems of returning kick serves from the -adv side.

Jogy
10-01-2005, 03:33 PM
not difficult question choosing the playre I want to win
At best I would want Murray to win 6-0 6-0 with 48 points to 0 :devil:
any win would be okay
main thing Federer lose again

landoud
10-01-2005, 03:40 PM
federer will win this title

evanzo
10-01-2005, 03:41 PM
federer will win this title



Thanks for stating the blindingly obvious.

prima donna
10-01-2005, 04:17 PM
Heh, I don't even understand why this is a discussion. It's nice to see a young gun coming up in the ranks, but frankly Murray is nowhere near a Gasquet or Berdych. He does everything solid, he's not particulary strong in any area.

Gasquet's backhand.
Berdych's deadly forehand.
Nadal, well, Nadal is Nadal.

I doubt he'll be the 4th youngster to beat Roger, I suppose that people need something to discuss while King Federer reigns supreme over the ATP, making his opposition look like mere underlings.

Nice job, Andy. Coach Federer will be giving you a 60 minute schooling tomorrow.

ClaycourtaZzZz.
10-01-2005, 04:22 PM
His return is one of the best on tour.

What does it bring you if you have a great forehand and the other thing is crap???

amierin
10-01-2005, 04:23 PM
I think there will be no bagel.

No bagel but Roger will win. He doesn't want another kid kicking his butt this year.

prima donna
10-01-2005, 04:27 PM
His return is one of the best on tour.

What does it bring you if you have a great forehand and the other thing is crap???

Yeah, an above average return will give Roger lots of trouble!!!

Last I checked, Roger dismantled the game's best returner. Ever.

A great forehand will get you a lot of places, it's done wonders for Roddick; accompanied by his speedy serve of course. The tour is filled with one-dimensional players, a return of serve isn't really a weapon unless you're Connors or Agassi. These players can dictate off the return. It's not really in Murray's hands if he has a good return day or not, Roger will just keep him off balance all match and a slice backhand won't do the job.

Once again, great to hear for Andy, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. He's a nice player, that offers variety and plays percentage tennis. :)

ClaycourtaZzZz.
10-01-2005, 04:29 PM
Yeah, but first Roger has to beat this untalented guy:rolleyes:

neeob
10-01-2005, 04:30 PM
federer quote from after the davis cup victory against GB (25.09.05):

“It was nice to hear him say that it was an honour to play me,” said Federer. “I was looking forward to playing him before the tie. I thought he behaved very well. He’s very relaxed on court in his attitude and his technique. I can see lots of things that he needs to improve but he surprised me for sure. I think we might have a few battles in the future.”

...very near future...

prima donna
10-01-2005, 04:31 PM
Yeah, but first Roger has to beat this untalented guy:rolleyes:
Who said that he didn't have any talent ? You're being a tad bit sensitive there, calm down popeye. Just not the talent to worry the likes of Roger Federer, which many don't these days. How is that a discredit to him ?

ClaycourtaZzZz.
10-01-2005, 04:32 PM
:o forget it, Federer is god and can't break his feet.

ClaycourtaZzZz.
10-01-2005, 04:32 PM
federer quote from after the davis cup victory against GB (25.09.05):

“It was nice to hear him say that it was an honour to play me,” said Federer. “I was looking forward to playing him before the tie. I thought he behaved very well. He’s very relaxed on court in his attitude and his technique. I can see lots of things that he needs to improve but he surprised me for sure. I think we might have a few battles in the future.”

...very near future...


look at my siggie,

PaulieM
10-01-2005, 04:33 PM
Who said that he didn't have any talent ? You're being a tad bit sensitive there, calm down popeye. Just not the talent to worry the likes of Roger Federer, which many don't these days. How is that a discredit to him ?
unless you say murray is the best thing since sliced bread you can't win with Federer_Express. :shrug:

evanzo
10-01-2005, 04:33 PM
Yeah, an above average return will give Roger lots of trouble!!!

Last I checked, Roger dismantled the game's best returner. Ever.

A great forehand will get you a lot of places, it's done wonders for Roddick; accompanied by his speedy serve of course. The tour is filled with one-dimensional players, a return of serve isn't really a weapon unless you're Connors or Agassi. These players can dictate off the return. It's not really in Murray's hands if he has a good return day or not, Roger will just keep him off balance all match and a slice backhand won't do the job.

Once again, great to hear for Andy, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. He's a nice player, that offers variety and plays percentage tennis. :)



You are quite possibly the stupidest person to ever post a comment on this forum.

prima donna
10-01-2005, 04:34 PM
look at my siggie,
Also, look at your username. ;)

ClaycourtaZzZz.
10-01-2005, 04:35 PM
unless you say murray is the best thing since sliced bread you can't win with Federer_Express. :shrug:

:retard:

Who the fuc* slices his BH the most of these 2? That's clearly Federer.

ClaycourtaZzZz.
10-01-2005, 04:36 PM
Also, look at your username. ;)

I don't wanna explain it every fuc*ing second.
I was a fuc*ing Federer troll and changed my mind on this jerk.

victory1
10-01-2005, 04:37 PM
:o forget it, Federer is god and can't break his feet.

You know Federer_Express you really need to change your name to Murray_Express before someone else steal your name :devil:

prima donna
10-01-2005, 04:38 PM
You are quite possibly the stupidest person to ever post a comment on this forum.
Flinging insults are we ? I've been on Murray's style of play since day 1, also certain statements I've made have been taken out of context.

Murray plays very smart tennis.
1). 7 out of 10 times plays the "smart shot" - high percentage, cross-court over down the line. Etc. More spin on his ball, less flat. Slice shots.
That's about it, he's quite a classic player in that regard. He has a nice tennis mind, especially for someone his age and a bit of a matured game. Reminds me of the game that the Aussies of the 60's and 70's made so famous (without the net play)

Aside from that, I don't see many intangibles.
I don't see the return game of Agassi.
I don't see the Forehand of Federer.
I don't see the backhand of Gasquet.
I don't see the serve of Johannson, with the placement of Federer.

I mean, you're behaving as if he has one major killer weapon. He is solid and I'm glad to see him having some success by using his brain; however, he is little or no trouble for King Federer.

Horatio Caine
10-01-2005, 04:39 PM
Federer to win for sure, but I could see the sets being decided to the tune of 6/3s or 6/4s. Murray HAS to serve at least 60% 1st serve to be competitive enough for Fed, and his current serving isn't good enough. Also, as witnessed at the DC tie, he has AWFUL problems returning the kick serve to the ad court. Fed is no doubt going to try that on many occasions, and it will be even harder to return given the quicker court.

However, if Andy can return well and get into rallies with Fed then I could see him doing damage. His ability to mix the pace can frustrate any opponent and Fed, believe it or not, is vulnerable to that. I am also confident that Murray will throw the kitchen sink at him (possibly literally!) - his first final, playing the man he wanted to play a week ago etc...he will be highly charged for it. I just hope he doesn't start badly by overhitting. :scared:

Nevertheless, I see a fairly comfortable win for Fed...unfortunately!! :lol:

ClaycourtaZzZz.
10-01-2005, 04:39 PM
You know Federer_Express you really need to change your name to Murray_Express before someone else steal your name :devil:


For what?:retard:

ClaycourtaZzZz.
10-01-2005, 04:41 PM
I want a premium membership!

PaulieM
10-01-2005, 04:41 PM
I don't wanna explain it every fuc*ing second.
I was a fuc*ing Federer troll and changed my mind on this jerk.
he explained himself quite clearly before.
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=2414329&postcount=527

neeob
10-01-2005, 04:41 PM
look at my siggie,

Can't see, I switched them off. In fact, I only signed
up to to do that... :cool: A lot of signatures are very
annoying or/and distracting...

But I guess you have exactly this quote in your
signature...

prima donna
10-01-2005, 04:41 PM
:retard:

Who the fuc* slices his BH the most of these 2? That's clearly Federer.
Roger's slice is an offensive shot, he's completely changed the slice shot. He has such placement and control over it, awareness of just when to use it. Last I checked, he can go over the ball quite nicely too.

I don't think Murray does anything on the same level that Roger d :p oes, but that's just stating the obvious. Only in the head of the delusional ones.

Why is it a downer for Murray to be inferior to Roger ? I mean, everyone is. I'm happy for the young lad.

ClaycourtaZzZz.
10-01-2005, 04:42 PM
yes.

victory1
10-01-2005, 04:43 PM
For what?:retard:
Because you're obviously obsess over Kermit so why hide behind Fed! ;)

Horatio Caine
10-01-2005, 04:43 PM
I mean, you're behaving as if he has one major killer weapon. He is solid and I'm glad to see him having some success by using his brain; however, he is little or no trouble for King Federer.

You got that right...possibly one of the most solid players on tour. That is why he wins many matches. My only concern is when he comes accross other solid players e.g. Hewitt, Nadal, Federer (of course). Andy can have weapons - his 1st serve is good (when it goes in :retard: ) and his forehand and backhand can be powerful. Against other solid players, he could be soundly whipped I fear.

ClaycourtaZzZz.
10-01-2005, 04:44 PM
I want to change but I don't want to waste my money for such a shit membershit.

NYCtennisfan
10-01-2005, 04:44 PM
1) a big first serve that rarely goes in, so that's a weakness right now but could be a strength if he could get it in play 60% of the time rather than 45%.

2) fierce groundstrokes on both wings that he rarely uses. A potential strength perhaps. Sometimes he is prepared to take the initiative but more often his play is cautious. When he does unleash these groundstrokes he looks a far better player. He hits his double handed backhand up the line for winners and is fairly reliable on passing shots.

3) excellent return of serve against a fast serve. Taylor Dent hits it pretty hard and Andy's hand/eye co-ordination was good enough to get it in play most of the time in the 2 matches they've played.

4) beautiful touch shots - drop shots, lobs, short angled returns. Might not be worth many points but they suggest that he is better than your average top 50 player.

5) variety. He is not a one pace player. He can slow it down, speed it up, throw in some heavy slice, spins, whatever. If an opponent has unreliable groundstrokes Andy will break them down.

Perfectly stated.

adee-gee
10-01-2005, 08:16 PM
Andy has next to no chance of beating Federer, lets be honest. It would absolutely make my year if he did but I'd be happy for him just to put up a good showing. The advantage Andy has is that Federer doesn't know his game as well as he knows many of the other players on tour, he probably didn't get that much of a feel playing against him in doubles last week. It'll be great for Andy to play Roger, he obviously respects him a lot and will most likely learn how far he is away from the top despite his good form. I just hope he doesn't get blitzed (which I don't think he will).

Good luck Andy. Roger, seeing as you were impressed by his comment last week about how it was an honour for him to be on the same court as you, feel free to let Andy win :D

RonE
10-01-2005, 08:49 PM
Come on Roger, time to cook some Haggis :devil:

http://haggishunt.scotsman.com/

adee-gee
10-01-2005, 08:51 PM
Haggis :inlove: its really quite nice if you don't think about what it is you're eating

Rafa = Fed Killa
10-01-2005, 09:02 PM
Fed 6-1, 6-0

2 teenagers beat Fed but this Andy guy isn't in the same league as Nadal and Gasquet and probably never will be.

adee-gee
10-01-2005, 09:03 PM
Fed 6-1, 6-0

2 teenagers beat Fed but this Andy guy isn't in the same league as Nadal and Gasquet and probably never will be.

Yes 6-1 6-0. Have you ever seen Murray play?

Rafa = Fed Killa
10-01-2005, 09:06 PM
Have you seen Federer play? He bagels people like Hewitt.

adee-gee
10-01-2005, 09:08 PM
Have you seen Federer play? He bagels people like Hewitt.

And Hewitt has a similar game to Murray in which way?

Grinder
10-01-2005, 09:08 PM
membershit.
Clever.

Let me get this straight, do you think Andy Murray is actually better than Roger Federer?

Rafa = Fed Killa
10-01-2005, 09:11 PM
Hewitt is a superior player to Murray or is this 18 year old already as good as a former world #1.

adee-gee
10-01-2005, 09:14 PM
Hewitt is a superior player to Murray or is this 18 year old already as good as a former world #1.

Hewitt is also a superior player to Hrbaty or Berdych or Gasquet. It hasn't stopped them beating Federer. I'm not saying Andy will beat Roger but his game matches up better than Hewitt's does. He'll get considerably more than 1 game.

PaulieM
10-01-2005, 09:14 PM
Clever.

Let me get this straight, do you think Andy Murray is actually better than Roger Federer?

no he just thinks that people who are as good as federer don't need fans to support them, and that once he loses a lot people won't support him. it was his losing at RG that led him to switch over to murray who is just coming up the ranks and needs fans, but once he gets too good surely he'll also move on to someone new. :shrug:

ClaycourtaZzZz.
10-01-2005, 09:29 PM
no he just thinks that people who are as good as federer don't need fans to support them, and that once he loses a lot people won't support him. it was his losing at RG that led him to switch over to murray who is just coming up the ranks and needs fans, but once he gets too good surely he'll also move on to someone new. :shrug:Murray is something different.
Here I don't feel any boom about his person, nearly no one knows him, it's just all about Federer over here, may they know Agassi, Roddick, Hewitt, Safin or Nadal. But they don't know Gaudio, Coria etc...

ClaycourtaZzZz.
10-01-2005, 09:31 PM
Clever.

Let me get this straight, do you think Andy Murray is actually better than Roger Federer?


:lol: No, but everyone can beat Federer, may they're not better but they're talented.

Corey Feldman
10-01-2005, 11:16 PM
good news for scottish viewers, they will show the highlights of this match on BBC1 Scotland at 10.55pm tomorrow :bounce:

R.Federer
10-01-2005, 11:37 PM
Anyone know if pplive or tvant is showing this match?