haaaa, a great quote from Roger Rasheed... [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

haaaa, a great quote from Roger Rasheed...

TheMightyFed
09-29-2005, 11:31 AM
“He [Hewitt] is virtually the No 2 player in the world right now and at
the US Open if he’d had a little bit of luck and few things had gone his
way, he would have beaten Federer,”

Is this guy on drugs or something ? :rolleyes:
Has he heard from a guy called Rafa, nicknamed "DC/RG/3 MS at 19" ?

jazz_girl
09-29-2005, 11:33 AM
:lol: So, where's Nadal??? I think the clear N°2 right now is Nadal, he's won the same number of titles than Federer and he has won a Slam.

Fergie
09-29-2005, 12:17 PM
The joke of the week! :lol:

TheMightyFed
09-29-2005, 12:38 PM
The joke of the week! :lol:
Yep, and we already had that a few months ago :
"I'm pleased with the fact that we've got, with the exception of Roger Federer, the best grass-court player in the world to lead things off for us," said Australian DC captain John Fitzgerald.

When will his entourage stop flattering Hewitt, when he's 150 in the world and plays challengers ? It's pretty pathetic, but they give us a good laugh... :lol:

MariaV
09-29-2005, 12:47 PM
The joke of the week! :lol:
Yep, at least good for something. :lol:

Rafa = Fed Killa
09-29-2005, 12:48 PM
Hewitt has had a better year than Nadal. :haha:

Stupidest statement of the year. :smash:

TheMightyFed
09-29-2005, 12:56 PM
Hewitt has had a better year than Nadal. :haha:

Stupidest statement of the year. :smash:
agree.
One question to you, Rafa = Fed Killa, what will you do if Rog gets a positive record against Rafa in the future, which can happen... will you keep your name ?

landoud
09-29-2005, 01:18 PM
:haha: :haha:

iliketennis
09-29-2005, 01:28 PM
Rafa may have had a better year, but consider this. If they played a series of matches on these surfaces, who would win

Hardcourt- Could go either way
Grass- Hewitt
Carpet- Hewitt
Clay- Nadal

TheMightyFed
09-29-2005, 01:32 PM
Rafa may have had a better year, but consider this. If they played a series of matches on these surfaces, who would win

You're like Rasheed, you like using "IF"... Nadal beat an in-form Agassi on hard in a MS finals + another tournament on hard, was 2 points away to beat Fed on hard (on a bad call), a situation Hewitt can only dream of these days... without mentioning the clay season... Hewitt is number 5 in the world, that seems tough to swallow for certain people...

jtipson
09-29-2005, 01:38 PM
Rafa may have had a better year, but consider this. If they played a series of matches on these surfaces, who would win

Hardcourt- Could go either way
Grass- Hewitt
Carpet- Hewitt
Clay- Nadal

Head-to-head results don't determine ranking, thank goodness. In any case, Nadal has been getting nearer and nearer to beating Hewitt on outdoor hardcourt and probably will next time they play.

Corey Feldman
09-29-2005, 01:44 PM
i find it more amsuing that he thinks Hewitt would have beat Federer if he had a bit of luck
your man lost in 4 Rashy, accept it.

iliketennis
09-29-2005, 01:51 PM
What has Nadal done at any grandslam other than RG?

Slam Results '05

Hewitt
AO- F
RG- -
WN- [B]SF
US- SF

Nadal-
AO- R16
RG- W
WN- R64
US- R32

Head to Head
3-0 Hewitt

2005

Australian Open, Hard, R16
Australia

Hard

R16

Hewitt

5 7 6 3 6 1 6 7 2 6
2004

Canada AMS, Hard, R64
Toronto, Canada

Hard

R64

Hewitt

6 1 4 6 2 6
2004

Australian Open, Hard, R32
Australia

Hard

R32

Hewitt

6 7 6 7 2 6

iliketennis
09-29-2005, 01:53 PM
What has Nadal done at any grandslam other than RG?

Slam Results '05

Hewitt
AO- F
RG- -
WN- SF
US- SF

Nadal-
AO- R16
RG- W
WN- R64
US- R32

Head to Head
3-0 Hewitt

2005

Australian Open, Hard, R16
Australia

Hard

R16

Hewitt

5 7 6 3 6 1 6 7 2 6
2004

Canada AMS, Hard, R64
Toronto, Canada

Hard

R64

Hewitt

6 1 4 6 2 6
2004

Australian Open, Hard, R32
Australia

Hard

R32

Hewitt

6 7 6 7 2 6

pinky
09-29-2005, 01:55 PM
I think RR was spoiled by the fact that his player won a set vs. Federer and didn't get bageled for once! ;)
Now if winning a set vs. Fed and not getting bageled makes you no2 in the world... well there are several no2 in tennis atm :)

nobama
09-29-2005, 02:02 PM
What has Nadal done at any grandslam other than RG? Ah, don't you know it doesn't matter what he hasn't done, it's what he's going to do in the future.

TheMightyFed
09-29-2005, 02:02 PM
What has Nadal done at any grandslam other than RG?

Slam Results '05

Thanks for posting twice, but H2H records have never determined a ranking, otherwise Krajicek would be the best player ever !!!
As for GS results, they are great for Hewitt, and could have been even better if he didn't broke his ribs in the stairs at home because he was walking in his socks... too bad...

nobama
09-29-2005, 02:05 PM
Head-to-head results don't determine ranking, thank goodness. In any case, Nadal has been getting nearer and nearer to beating Hewitt on outdoor hardcourt and probably will next time they play.Maybe, maybe not. I'm sure people expected him to go farther at USO than he did. How many HC tournaments has Nadal won? Just one? At this point I don't consider him the favorite over any of the top 5 on HC.

iliketennis
09-29-2005, 02:18 PM
Ah, don't you know it doesn't matter what he hasn't done, it's what he's going to do in the future.

Gimelstob can win many hardcourt slams. I wouldn't hold my breath though

TheMightyFed
09-29-2005, 02:18 PM
Maybe, maybe not. I'm sure people expected him to go farther at USO than he did. How many HC tournaments has Nadal won? Just one? At this point I don't consider him the favorite over any of the top 5 on HC.
Guys, Nadal has won one Masters series on HC + China Open + finals in another MS on HC... How many HC Masters Series has won Hewitt so far ? 0 ? Ah yes

mangoes
09-29-2005, 02:25 PM
It's time for Hewitt and Nadal to meet.....................and settle it the old fashioned way............one hell of a tennis match. Now, I like Nadal, but I do not think Nadal can beat hewitt on a hard court or grass court. And so, you got to understand a bit where Hewitt is coming from.....and I am not a big fan of Hewitt. In a lot of ways, I still consider Hewitt the no. 2 player in the world. But, as I said, they need to meet. Nadal needs to meet Hewitt, Safin, and Roddick. Not until they meet will we really know if Nadal is truly No. 2 in the world or if it is just because he played so many clay court events. Roger is a rounded player. Clay may be his worst surface, but he still reached the semi of the FO. So, Roger has earned that no. 1 title without doubt.

Nadal has escaped Hewitt, Safin and Roddick. For some reason, they keep falling in Roger's half of draws and Coria keeps falling in Nadal's half of the draw. While I do not believe that Hewitt, Safin or Roddick can beat Nadal on Clay, I do not see Nadal beating them on the other surfaces. Nadal just keeps escaping them.

TheMightyFed
09-29-2005, 02:28 PM
So, Roger has earned that no. 1 title without doubt.
Are you sure ? We were just waiting for your confirmation... ;)
As for Nadal I'm sorry but he won 10 titles including 2 on hard, I mean, what does he need to do ?

mangoes
09-29-2005, 02:29 PM
Are you sure ? We were just waiting for your confirmation... ;)


Thank you for showing me your ass this morning ;)......lolol

TheMightyFed
09-29-2005, 02:31 PM
Thank you for showing me your ass this morning ;)......lolol
was just kidding in case you didn't notice...

mangoes
09-29-2005, 02:32 PM
was just kidding in case you didn't notice...


That's why I'm laughing, hence the lololol. I figured you were kidding.

TheMightyFed
09-29-2005, 02:33 PM
Nadal just keeps escaping them.
Maybe he kind of broke Safin's knee with a baseball bat and pushed Hewitt in the stairs to escape them ?

amierin
09-29-2005, 02:33 PM
It's time for Hewitt and Nadal to meet.....................and settle it the old fashioned way............one hell of a tennis match. Now, I like Nadal, but I do not think Nadal can beat hewitt on a hard court or grass court. And so, you got to understand a bit where Hewitt is coming from. But, as I said, they need to meet. Nadal needs to meet Hewitt, Safin, and Roddick. Not until they meet will we really now if Nadal is truly No. 2 in the world or if it is just because he played so many clay court events. Roger is a rounded player. Clay may be his worst surface, but he still reached the semi of the FO. So, Roger has earned that no. 1 title without doubt.

I think that they want to get Nadal involved in a feud with Huey hence the statement.
Roddick wants no part of Nadal. If Safin gets his act together Nadal/Safin would be interesting. And what is Huey going to do insult Nadal to get into his head?
It's time for Huey to stop this crap and just play.

mangoes
09-29-2005, 02:35 PM
Maybe he kind of broke Safi'n's knee with a baseball bat and pushed Hewitt in the stairs to escape them ?


Whether it's by the luck of the draw or illness, he keeps escaping having to play these guys. And I was excited and looking forward to seeing Safin and Nadal play, but I don't think that's going to happen anytime in the near future.

Castafiore
09-29-2005, 02:36 PM
Ah yes, here we go again..that old topic again.
Nadal is the number two in ranking but player <insert top player of your choice> deserves that spot more because <insert excuse of your choice>

At the end of last year, even with his DC exploits, nobody expected Rafa to get from ranking n° 52 to n°2 and he has done so by winning 10 tournaments (amongst other things): one slam tournament at his first attempt, two master titles on clay, one master title on HC, a final in a masters tournament on HC.
The ranking does not depend on slam tournaments and even then: Rafa has a slam title this year, Hewitt has not.

If we're talking about his ranking right now, it's ludicrous to even start assuming that he does not deserve it.
Now, whether he will hold on to it in the future is another matter: speculation.

To be realistic, if you would set up a series of matches on a HC against the top 5...I would not put my money on Nadal as the top favorite either but since he has made life very difficult on HC against Hewitt and Federer and since he has beaten Agassi, he's not without a chance either.

mangoes
09-29-2005, 02:37 PM
I think that they want to get Nadal involved in a feud with Huey hence the statement.
Roddick wants no part of Nadal. If Safin gets his act together Nadal/Safin would be interesting. And what is Huey going to do insult Nadal to get into his head?
It's time for Huey to stop this crap and just play.


Nadal does not come across as the type of guy that falls for that type of crap if that was their purpose............to get into his head.

mangoes
09-29-2005, 02:43 PM
Ah yes, here we go again..that old topic again.
Nadal is the number two in ranking but player <insert top player of your choice> deserves that spot more because <insert excuse of your choice>



Now I didn't say that another player deserves it over Nadal, or that Nadal has not earned his no. 2 ranking. He has earned the points. But, personally, I'd like to see him face Hewitt, Safin and Roddick so that I can have an idea of how good he is.......... Roger has faced those guys countless times and we know where he stands with them. I don't know where Nadal stands with them and I would like to know.

amierin
09-29-2005, 02:55 PM
Nadal does not come across as the type of guy that falls for that type of crap if that was their purpose............to get into his head.

I agree Mangoes and that's why it's so silly of Huey's camp to do this. If I was Huey I'd keep looking for the draw to help me make the quarters and avoid Nadal but no one ever said he was rational. He did sell the rights to his wedding, the impending birth of his child, and now both he and his wife IIRC. Most athletes try to keep their private life just that but I guess Huey has to live up to the legend he is in his own mind. He sees himself slipping in the rankings now and he's desperate to stay in the limelight.

TheMightyFed
09-29-2005, 02:57 PM
Most athletes try to keep their private life just that but I guess Huey has to live up to the legend he is in his own mind. He sees himself slipping in the rankings now and he's desperate to stay in the limelight.
Again, pretty pathetic.... BTW, what is IIRC ? :rolleyes:

alfonsojose
09-29-2005, 02:59 PM
:lol: Where's Socket :tape: ?

amierin
09-29-2005, 03:00 PM
Again, pretty pathetic.... BTW, what is IIRC ? :rolleyes:

IIRC= If I Recall Correctly.

And yeah, it is pathetic.

Chloe le Bopper
09-29-2005, 03:37 PM
Hewitt has NEVER won ten titles in a year. But that's okay.

mangoes
09-29-2005, 03:39 PM
IIRC= If I Recall Correctly.

And yeah, it is pathetic.


I'm not sure if it was Brad Gilbert that said this, I think it was him, but he made a prediction that Hewitt will begin to drop out of the top 5. He also said that if Safin does not fully recover from his knee injury, he could see him slowing down and dropping out of the top 5.

Chloe le Bopper
09-29-2005, 03:40 PM
He also said that if Safin does not fully recover from his knee injury, he could see him slowing down and dropping out of the top 5.

They don't call him Captain Obvious for nothing!

R.Federer
09-29-2005, 03:55 PM
Rashed should not have said this. It is sort of like when leyton was number 1, and someone said "But really, we know sampras is the real No. 1" or "andre is the real no. 1". It is inappropriate, because players have to win to get their ranking and if you don't work, dont win, then you don't get a good ranking and then you just sit back and say "But I know I am still best or second best". I wish he did not say this. It is de-meaning to nadal accomplishment of the year

Chloe le Bopper
09-29-2005, 03:56 PM
Rafa may have had a better year, but consider this. If they played a series of matches on these surfaces, who would win

Hardcourt- Could go either way
Grass- Hewitt
Carpet- Hewitt
Clay- Nadal
Irrelevant.

Chloe le Bopper
09-29-2005, 03:59 PM
Hewitt, the REAL number 2, had fewer points than Rafa does now when he ended 2001 number 1. He had only ten more points than Rafa does now when he ended 2002 number 1.

This isn't particularly relevant either, but it is an interesting stat and does go to show that Hewitt's best years weren't really better than Rafa's 2005, in terms of points. Nor were they as good in terms of overall titles. His overall slam results were better, however.

Chloe le Bopper
09-29-2005, 04:01 PM
Seeing as Rafa defends squat for the rest of the year, I imagine that it's likely he will make up those ten points :p

Chloe le Bopper
09-29-2005, 04:02 PM
What has Nadal done at any grandslam other than RG?

Slam Results '05

Hewitt
AO- F
RG- -
WN- SF
US- SF

Nadal-
AO- R16
RG- W
WN- R64
US- R32

Head to Head
3-0 Hewitt

2005

Australian Open, Hard, R16
Australia

Hard

R16

Hewitt

5 7 6 3 6 1 6 7 2 6
2004

Canada AMS, Hard, R64
Toronto, Canada

Hard

R64

Hewitt

6 1 4 6 2 6
2004

Australian Open, Hard, R32
Australia

Hard

R32

Hewitt

6 7 6 7 2 6
I'd bet my left leg that Hewitt would trade in "consistent performer" for "Grand Slam Champion in 2005" in a heartbeat.

R.Federer
09-29-2005, 04:04 PM
The only thing that maybe rahsed is thinking is that, for the number of tournaments that leyton has played, he certainly has a high "return" on his points.

But even then 490 out of 14 tournamentes, is less better than 853 out of 22. He is correct that leyton has shown much better in the slams than rafa.

But I think if you ask a player, they will take 1 slam win and R1 loss in other 3, rather than 2 Sfinale, 1 finale. So it seems that nadal has earned his right to be No. 2 and it should not be taken so lightly by the coach of leyton.

R.Federer
09-29-2005, 04:06 PM
To: Chloe le Bopper. We said the same thing! But I did not see your post because I was busy to write mine.

TheMightyFed
09-29-2005, 04:08 PM
Rashed should not have said this. It is sort of like when leyton was number 1, and someone said "But really, we know sampras is the real No. 1" or "andre is the real no. 1". It is inappropriate, because players have to win to get their ranking and if you don't work, dont win, then you don't get a good ranking and then you just sit back and say "But I know I am still best or second best". I wish he did not say this. It is de-meaning to nadal accomplishment of the year
It's reminiscent of the multiple times we heard Serena Williams saying "people think I'm still number 1", now look how she's been bumped out of top10... seems hard for a top player to accept the fall down. It will be interesting to see how Federer will react to that. I think Nadal will have a good reaction. Agassi's reaction has always been pretty good in that regard...people who truly love the game don't bother that much...

TheMightyFed
09-29-2005, 04:11 PM
Hewitt's entourage get nuts when they imagine what his record would be without Fed in the picture...

R.Federer
09-29-2005, 04:18 PM
Well, it appears that leyton also really believes what his coach says because after Wimbledon he has also said that he believes himself to be second best player in the world. I think they actually feel like that, which is alright if you keep to yourself. But to announce it and to know that real No. 2 is someone else, is to me quite bad

leyton: "I've got no doubt that I feel like I'm the second best player going around right at the moment. It's just that the best player going around is pretty bloody good. "

Merton
09-29-2005, 04:22 PM
Wishful thinking at best, delusional at worst.

TheMightyFed
09-29-2005, 04:23 PM
Well, it appears that leyton also really believes what his coach says because after Wimbledon he has also said that he believes himself to be second best player in the world. I think they actually feel like that, which is alright if you keep to yourself. But to announce it and to know that real No. 2 is someone else, is to me quite bad

leyton: "I've got no doubt that I feel like I'm the second best player going around right at the moment. It's just that the best player going around is pretty bloody good. "
Like if Hewitt needed to make new ennemies... :rolleyes:

Corey Feldman
09-29-2005, 04:26 PM
Hewitt's entourage get nuts when they imagine what his record would be without Fed in the picture...:lol: did you watch this years Wimbledon semi between fed/hewitt, the looks Hewitt's clan gave Fed at times :eek: especially mother Hewitt..
his girl Bec was an exception however, she just looked like she was still wondering what the rules of tennis are and who was winning

i like Hewitt, but his clan has always been a bit :scared: to me

Merton
09-29-2005, 04:26 PM
Ah, don't you know it doesn't matter what he hasn't done, it's what he's going to do in the future.

Expectations do matter, Hewitt and Nadal don't stand on equal ground since Hewitt has been around much more time than Nadal. There is no doubt about 2005 and there is no doubt about their careers up to now. Having said that, forming rational expectations is another matter.

jtipson
09-29-2005, 04:29 PM
Well, it appears that leyton also really believes what his coach says because after Wimbledon he has also said that he believes himself to be second best player in the world. I think they actually feel like that, which is alright if you keep to yourself. But to announce it and to know that real No. 2 is someone else, is to me quite bad

leyton: "I've got no doubt that I feel like I'm the second best player going around right at the moment. It's just that the best player going around is pretty bloody good. "

Fair enough, because at that point he *was* the second best player in the world.

Merton
09-29-2005, 04:31 PM
Now I didn't say that another player deserves it over Nadal, or that Nadal has not earned his no. 2 ranking. He has earned the points. But, personally, I'd like to see him face Hewitt, Safin and Roddick so that I can have an idea of how good he is.......... Roger has faced those guys countless times and we know where he stands with them. I don't know where Nadal stands with them and I would like to know.

I completely agree. It feels like seeing a great movie (Hewitt-Nadal, A.O. 2005) and eagerly waiting for the sequel. The same goes about Andy-Nadal on hard courts. Nadal's rise has been too fast this year, these matchups will occur soon enough.

TheMightyFed
09-29-2005, 04:34 PM
his girl Bec was an exception however, she just looked like she was still wondering what the rules of tennis are and who was winning

Could Mirka throw her a few potato chips so that she can get an occupation from time to time ? :rolleyes:

Merton
09-29-2005, 04:35 PM
The only thing that maybe rahsed is thinking is that, for the number of tournaments that leyton has played, he certainly has a high "return" on his points.

But even then 490 out of 14 tournamentes, is less better than 853 out of 22. He is correct that leyton has shown much better in the slams than rafa.

But I think if you ask a player, they will take 1 slam win and R1 loss in other 3, rather than 2 Sfinale, 1 finale. So it seems that nadal has earned his right to be No. 2 and it should not be taken so lightly by the coach of leyton.

Numbers do not lie, there is no doubt about who had the better year. Having said that, can we infer that Nadal is the second-best player in the world right now? (overall, not conditioning on surface) I think that we must wait one more year to get an answer to that question.

R.Federer
09-29-2005, 04:47 PM
Fair enough, because at that point he *was* the second best player in the world.
Yes and it was a dig at the Wimbledon people because he was seeded 3 I think
Edit to sy: In the race ranking or in the seeding you mean? In race ranking he was *not* second best player in the world

R.Federer
09-29-2005, 04:49 PM
Numbers do not lie, there is no doubt about who had the better year. Having said that, can we infer that Nadal is the second-best player in the world right now? (overall, not conditioning on surface) I think that we must wait one more year to get an answer to that question.

That is not fair to nadal I think. He is the second best player in the world right now - why anyone must wait a year for that? Was Roge the best player in the world at this same time last year? Yes, and we di not wait one more year to confirm that

Corey Feldman
09-29-2005, 04:50 PM
Could Mirka throw her a few potato chips so that she can get an occupation from time to time ? :rolleyes:
Mirka doesnt share her chips with anyone ;)

TheMightyFed
09-29-2005, 04:51 PM
Mirka doesnt share her chips with anyone ;)
Yep, we've all seen that lately... :devil:

jtipson
09-29-2005, 04:54 PM
Yes and it was a dig at the Wimbledon people because he was seeded 3 I think
Edit to sy: In the race ranking or in the seeding you mean? In race ranking he was *not* second best player in the world

Entry. No fan or player with any sense takes the race to be meaningful in terms of ranking ;)

propi
09-29-2005, 05:01 PM
What has Nadal done at any grandslam other than RG?


Same as Hewitt, not winning :wavey:
But at least he's won 10 titles :wavey:

Merton
09-29-2005, 05:17 PM
That is not fair to nadal I think. He is the second best player in the world right now - why anyone must wait a year for that? Was Roge the best player in the world at this same time last year? Yes, and we di not wait one more year to confirm that

This is different because Rafa's rise has been quite meteoric. He was in the low 50's at the end of last year. Roger had quite some history before 2004. One could even make a case that he was the best player in the world at the end of 2003.

Chloe le Bopper
09-29-2005, 05:43 PM
Numbers do not lie, there is no doubt about who had the better year. Having said that, can we infer that Nadal is the second-best player in the world right now? (overall, not conditioning on surface) I think that we must wait one more year to get an answer to that question.

I really don't think that makes much sense at all.

BlackSilver
09-29-2005, 05:49 PM
I think that we must wait one more year to get an answer to that question.

No. Rafael Nadal is currently one level above Hewitt as a tennis player and what will gonna happen next year is irrelevant

mangoes
09-29-2005, 06:13 PM
That is not fair to nadal I think. He is the second best player in the world right now - why anyone must wait a year for that? Was Roge the best player in the world at this same time last year? Yes, and we di not wait one more year to confirm that


I do understand your point of view. However, last year, everyone said that Roger had a fluke year and he couldn't win a grandslam in 2005. Some also said the real test would come for Roger this year in determining whether or not he could retain his no. 1 ranking. Those were solid question asked by serious tennis fans. Roger answered the question. He will finish 2005 as no. 1 and he won 2 Grand Slams in 2005. Roger is, without any doubt, the no. 1 player in the world.

I think we all respect Nadal's no. 2 ranking and admire the astounding year he has had. But, even Roger has said, the real test will come for Nadal next year when he has to defend all those points. In addition to that, we are all eager to see how Nadal matches up against Hewitt, Safin and Roddick. Roger's match-ups against those guys spoke volumes about his level of play.

Castafiore
09-29-2005, 06:42 PM
With all due respect, mangoes, but weren't we talking (in this thread at least) about the number 2 and the so-called virtual number 2 at the moment?

This has little to nothing to do with Nadal's matchup with guys like Safin, Roddick, Hewitt. Sure, to see how he will do against these guys over the years can be fun - very true - but it has little to do with the merit of his current ranking.
However, I agree that many people will perceive his next year as a test to see if he can confirm but that's the future.

I understand what you say about Federer and confirming his number one status this year but not everything has to be measured on how people perceive Federer and thus using it as some sort of measuring stick for Nadal or another player out there.

nobama
09-29-2005, 06:49 PM
Yep, we've all seen that lately... :devil:Not even with Roger? I noticed he updated his weight in his profile (gained 10 lbs), but the ATP didn't change it on their site yet. How often do they update those things?

1sun
09-29-2005, 06:56 PM
hewit is the 2nd best player on grass and hard. overall nadal is the 2nd best player in the world.

TheMightyFed
09-29-2005, 07:13 PM
Not even with Roger? I noticed he updated his weight in his profile (gained 10 lbs), but the ATP didn't change it on their site yet. How often do they update those things?
Yeah I heard that in DC, I'm a bit surprised because he didn't change that much... bit more bulky...

cecilija
09-29-2005, 07:17 PM
I am pretty sure next season nadal will not be as good as now

u will see.

mangoes
09-29-2005, 07:32 PM
With all due respect, mangoes, but weren't we talking (in this thread at least) about the number 2 and the so-called virtual number 2 at the moment?

This has little to nothing to do with Nadal's matchup with guys like Safin, Roddick, Hewitt. Sure, to see how he will do against these guys over the years can be fun - very true - but it has little to do with the merit of his current ranking.
However, I agree that many people will perceive his next year as a test to see if he can confirm but that's the future.

I understand what you say about Federer and confirming his number one status this year but not everything has to be measured on how people perceive Federer and thus using it as some sort of measuring stick for Nadal or another player out there.


I think you should read all my posts in this thread. I am not saying that Nadal does not deserve No. 2. I used Federer as an example because these questions were being asked of him last year. I am not using Federer as some sort of a measuring stick. For me to soundly do so, Federer would have had to have had a similar year at 19 as Nadal did. In the last couple of years, since Pete, we have seen many no. 1s that were just there because they won a grand slam. Example JCF. However, they did not dominate the game nor, frankly, did I consider them truly no. 1 players. I just viewed them as having a great year and earning their ranking.

So, naturally, people are going to see if Nadal has staying power solidifing his position as no. 2. And as an example, I reminded people that those same questions were being asked of Roger last year.

Nadal has earned his no. 2 ranking this year. Am I going to jump on a bandwagon and proclaim him the second best player in the world? Not yet. Marat Safin isn't the no. 2, 3, or 4th player in the world, but I do think he is a better player than Hewitt and Roddick. I want to know how good a player Nadal is and I know he is the best on clay, but I cannot say he is the second best player in the world. I can say he is ranked no. 2 in 2005, and justifiably so.

Turkeyballs Paco
09-29-2005, 07:43 PM
It's time for Hewitt and Nadal to meet.....................and settle it the old fashioned way............one hell of a tennis match. Now, I like Nadal, but I do not think Nadal can beat hewitt on a hard court or grass court. And so, you got to understand a bit where Hewitt is coming from.....and I am not a big fan of Hewitt. In a lot of ways, I still consider Hewitt the no. 2 player in the world. But, as I said, they need to meet. Nadal needs to meet Hewitt, Safin, and Roddick. Not until they meet will we really know if Nadal is truly No. 2 in the world or if it is just because he played so many clay court events. Roger is a rounded player. Clay may be his worst surface, but he still reached the semi of the FO. So, Roger has earned that no. 1 title without doubt.

Nadal has escaped Hewitt, Safin and Roddick. For some reason, they keep falling in Roger's half of draws and Coria keeps falling in Nadal's half of the draw. While I do not believe that Hewitt, Safin or Roddick can beat Nadal on Clay, I do not see Nadal beating them on the other surfaces. Nadal just keeps escaping them.

Yeah recently. They met at the AO, but I don't think they have met on hardcourts this year. It would be interesting to see it, and I wouldn't be surprised if Nadal would win it. It's frustrating to see Lleyton's serve lately, and he has more trouble with different players you wouldn't think would be too tough.

Rasheed is probably just concerned about his job. Coaches probably get nervous when their player's rank drops a few notches, especially at this level.

Castafiore
09-29-2005, 08:13 PM
I think you should read all my posts in this thread. I am not saying that Nadal does not deserve No. 2.
I don't think that I was implying that you said so, mangoes and my post was not meant as a criticism to you. :) (because my opinion on this doesn't differ all that much from yours)

However, they did not dominate the game nor, frankly, did I consider them truly no. 1 players. I just viewed them as having a great year and earning their ranking.
Ah, but you're talking about the place of a player in history when you discuss a 'truly no.1 player' and not just about sheer ranking at a particular point in time, aren't you?

A player gets to the number one rank by getting good results.
A good number one player does not necessarily have to be dominant in the way Sampras was and Federer now is. :shrug: (at least, not in my opinion)

Nadal has earned his no. 2 ranking this year. Am I going to jump on a bandwagon and proclaim him the second best player in the world?
I don't think that many people are jumping on that bandwagon just yet because it's a bit too soon to say that.

Marat Safin isn't the no. 2, 3, or 4th player in the world, but I do think he is a better player than Hewitt and Roddick.
Maybe Safin has more natural tennis talent than them but ranking points is about more than natural ability. Hewitt has been a very consistent player over the years.
For example: Jan Ullrich, the cyclist. Many say that he has more natural talent than Armstrong. When he was 23 and he won his Tour de France, people were predicting that he could go on to win 6 or 7 or maybe more TdFs. It didn't happen because another cyclist with more willpower and more consistency started winning it.
We're talking about ranking in tennis here and not merely about natural talent.
So, we can all agree that Safin is one of the most gifted tennis players but top sport requires consistency.

mangoes
09-29-2005, 08:31 PM
I don't think that I was implying that you said so, mangoes and my post was not meant as a criticism to you. :) (because my opinion on this doesn't differ all that much from yours)


Ah, but you're talking about the place of a player in history when you discuss a 'truly no.1 player' and not just about sheer ranking at a particular point in time, aren't you?

A player gets to the number one rank by getting good results.
A good number one player does not necessarily have to be dominant in the way Sampras was and Federer now is. :shrug: (at least, not in my opinion)


I don't think that many people are jumping on that bandwagon just yet because it's a bit too soon to say that.


Maybe Safin has more natural tennis talent than them but ranking points is about more than natural ability. Hewitt has been a very consistent player over the years.
For example: Jan Ullrich, the cyclist. Many say that he has more natural talent than Armstrong. When he was 23 and he won his Tour de France, people were predicting that he could go on to win 6 or 7 or maybe more TdFs. It didn't happen because another cyclist with more willpower and more consistency started winning it.
We're talking about ranking in tennis here and not merely about natural talent.
So, we can all agree that Safin is one of the most gifted tennis players but top sport requires consistency.



I add Hewitt to that group. He earned and was the no. 1 player in the world when he held the title. It wasn't just about him having a great year. So when I refer to a player being the best player in the world, I don't only mean a player who dominated like Sampras.

One of the biggest reasons I am a huge Roger fan is because of his consistency. I have also called safin an idiot, on many occasions, for his lack of consistency and I do understand the importance of ranking. We are not disputing these facts, nor are we disputing the importance of ranking points.

That said. I cannot gage how good a tennis player Nadal is as yet. I know Roger is the best in the world. I know that Andy, Lleyton, Marat are the top 5 best players in the world. One of them may get injured and fall, in the rankings, from the top 5, but will I consider them less of a player? No. All I am saying is that, I cannot proclaim to the world that Rafael Nadal is the second best player in the world. What I will say is: Rafael Nadal is a gifted player who is ranked no. 2 in the world. He had a fantastic year in 2005.

When I say I think Marat is a better player than Hewitt, I think he is. Is it reflected in the ranking? NO. Why? Because Hewitt has something that Marat does not have, Consistency. I know this. That was not the point I was trying to make when including Marat in my post. The point I was making is that beyond ranking points, we know how good Marat is, and even with his wavering consistency, he is still in the top 5. So, how would I describe Marat? As a top 5 player and I believe that in all regard even if he slips to no. 8 due to his knee injury.

Castafiore
09-29-2005, 08:55 PM
When I say I think Marat is a better player than Hewitt, I think he is. Is it reflected in the ranking? NO. Why? Because Hewitt has something that Marat does not have, Consistency.
But holding on to a ranking is to a large degree about consistency so why is it less important to you than natural ability (maybe I'm misinterpreting what you say but you seem to rate Marat higher)? I mean, Malisse for example has the natural talent (meaning that he has all the shots and all the skills) to be in the top 10 but he probably won't ever get there because he lacks the mental toughness somebody like Hewitt has. That's at least as valuable as natural tennis talent when we're talking about ranking.
So, what makes a better tennis player? Somebody who has the potential of being the best but he rarely shows it or somebody who tries to get the maximum out of his given talents?

amierin
09-29-2005, 08:57 PM
The second best in the world had a hard time with Gimelstob today in Thailand. Guess it was just a bad day. And goes to show that on any given day any player can have problems with any other player.

I think Federer was feeling the pressure in the beginning of the year and his going away to work on his game shows that. He came back and played at the level we're accustomed to seeing him play.

Right now, based on the year he's had Nadal deserves to be Number 2. And I think that is why Huey and his coach are having conniptions and making statements about the "real number 2".

If doesn't matter. Next year will be here soon enough and I for one can't wait to see how it plays out. Nadal is set to play India and Sydney before the AO.

ETA: I still think Safin can outplay everybody in the top five if he wants to. But does he want to?

mangoes
09-29-2005, 09:19 PM
But holding on to a ranking is to a large degree about consistency so why is it less important to you than natural ability (maybe I'm misinterpreting what you say but you seem to rate Marat higher)? I mean, Malisse for example has the natural talent (meaning that he has all the shots and all the skills) to be in the top 10 but he probably won't ever get there because he lacks the mental toughness somebody like Hewitt has. That's at least as valuable as natural tennis talent when we're talking about ranking.
So, what makes a better tennis player? Somebody who has the potential of being the best but he rarely shows it or somebody who tries to get the maximum out of his given talents?


I think you have completely misunderstood my posts and this is turning into a completely different subject. My intent wasn't to debate what makes a better tennis player and I think my post is being used to debate a subject that it wasn't intended to do.

There are 5 giants in the tennis world. After having watched them play each other several times, I have formed an opinion on how good each is. I'd say without hesitation:

1. Roger
2. Marat
3. Lleyton
4. Andy

All I meant by my post was I don't know as yet where Nadal falls. He may fall in front of Roger. He may fall in front of Marat. He may fall after Andy. I DON'T KNOW. What I do know is that he has entered the top 5 in 2005............congrats to Rafa and I love seeing him play.

Castafiore
09-29-2005, 09:37 PM
I think you have completely misunderstood my posts and this is turning into a completely different subject.
No, I think I get what you're saying but maybe we BOTH are talking about different topics here.
As I see it, this thread started out by talking about current ranking BUT within your posts, you took it into a different direction by talking about the rating of tennis players over a longer period, regardless of the current ranking. I don't know if I'm making myself clear here.

Nadal is only 19. It's too soon to talk about his merit over a longer period of time. I agree about that. We don't know. This isn't about that. You agree with the main question of this thread, though...Nadal has had a great season and he deserves his current ranking. Nothing more and nothing less

mangoes
09-29-2005, 09:58 PM
. You agree with the main question of this thread, though...Nadal has had a great season and he deserves his current ranking. Nothing more and nothing less

On that we can both agree.

On a side note, when I ranked those four, I was heavily considering their level of play this year. The only reason I cannot say Nadal is the second best player in the world, fullstop, is because I just don't know how he measures up against Hewitt, Safin and Roddick. But, I tell all my non-tennis addict friends that Nadal is no. 2 in the world. They all drool over him.

soonha
09-29-2005, 10:57 PM
Guys, Nadal Is a No.2 player in the world. However...

The reason why these talks keep coming depite his all successes of this year is, I think, mostly because this is the first year of Nadal's rising. If he'll be able to continue his run and beat big guys on HC in next few years, these talks will be gone soon.

Nadal is in a different situation from those guys like Federer, Hewitt, Roddick and Safin, who have consistently been around in top 5 and played against each other for years so that people have seen their games enough to consider them "big 4" without doubt. But Nadal is kind of a "rookie" in the prestigious top 5 league. Naturally people can't be sure that he will be consistent in coming years even if they've seen his talent and great run this year.

Moreover, a few significant points of question like his favorite surface is clay and he didn't make good results in this year's GSs(except RG) and has not played against those big guys on a regular basis on HC etc. are enough to make people wonder if this guy is really the 2nd best player, which, I think, is also natural because many people tend to appreciate a player with the measure of his superiority rather than the ranking, i.e. no.2 in the ranking doesn't necessarily mean no.2 player in their minds. It's more a matter of the perception of people than the ranking, for which Nadal and his fans may feel injustice and unfairness. But for this matter, all he needs are just some time to prove himself.

mangoes
09-29-2005, 11:12 PM
Guys, Nadal Is a No.2 player in the world. However...

The reason why these talks keep coming depite his all successes of this year is, I think, mostly because this is the first year of Nadal's rising. If he'll be able to continue his run and beat big guys on HC in next few years, these talks will be gone soon.

Nadal is in a different situation from those guys like Federer, Hewitt, Roddick and Safin, who have consistently been around in top 5 and played against each other for years so that people have seen their games enough to consider them "big 4" without doubt. But Nadal is kind of a "rookie" in the prestigious top 5 league. Naturally people can't be sure that he will be consistent in coming years even if they've seen his talent and great run this year.

Moreover, a few significant points of question like his favorite surface is clay and he didn't make good results in this year's GSs(except RG) and has not played against those big guys on a regular basis on HC etc. are enough to make people wonder if this guy is really the 2nd best player, which, I think, is also natural because many people tend to appreciate a player with the measure of his superiority rather than the ranking, i.e. no.2 in the ranking doesn't necessarily mean no.2 player in their minds. It's more a matter of the perception of people than the ranking, for which Nadal and his fans may feel injustice and unfairness. But for this matter, all he needs are just some time to prove himself.

I agree.

TheMightyFed
09-30-2005, 10:59 AM
Moreover, a few significant points of question like his favorite surface is clay and he didn't make good results in this year's GSs(except RG) and has not played against those big guys on a regular basis on HC etc. are enough to make people wonder if this guy is really the 2nd best player, which, I think, is also natural because many people tend to appreciate a player with the measure of his superiority rather than the ranking, i.e. no.2 in the ranking doesn't necessarily mean no.2 player in their minds.
OK but lately nothing really proved that Hewitt was the 2nd best in people's mind, whatever Rasheed thinks...

Experimentee
09-30-2005, 03:12 PM
They dont have that much respect for clay tennis in Australia. Maybe Rasheed stops following tennis during the clay season, and thus thinks Rafa hasnt done anything but win Toronto :o

TheMightyFed
09-30-2005, 03:13 PM
Ha ! Now I get what he meant : Hewitt is the second best INJURED player in the world, after Marat !! That sounds better now ! :devil:

revolution
09-30-2005, 03:14 PM
Currently Nadal is No 2, but if the Slams only count Hewitt has two GS to Nadal's one, so is the better player in terms of career and titles. This can change though, and Rafa badly wants to win Wimbledon, hope he can achieve this.

soonha
09-30-2005, 04:09 PM
OK but lately nothing really proved that Hewitt was the 2nd best in people's mind, whatever Rasheed thinks...
I didn't say that Hewitt was the 2nd best player in people's mind. I just said that Nadal was a no.2 player in the world but still had something to prove because he's new in top 5 and hasn't yet proven himself against "big 4" esp. on HC enough to be recognized as the 2nd best regardless of the ranking. I think that most people here will agree with my point.

I'm neither trying to depend Rasheed's lousy statement nor a Hewitt fan by any means but...it seems to me that what you're saying is a little too harsh on him. Why don't you give him some slack?

First, actually Rasheed said "virtually(no 2. player)". Second, to be fair, it's true that Hewitt has been a bit unlucky in this whole year(e.g. toe surgery, rib injury, seeding issues at Wimby, stomach flu, etc). Third, unlike Nadal, he reached finals and semifinals at all GS he involved despite all those injury, illness or lack of preparation, which indicates his consistency and I believe that consistency is one of the most important indictors of a real top player. Besides if you lose to no.1, who is seemingly unbeatable and the best player ever, at GS or TMS finals or semifinals time and time again and otherwise you have decent records against any other top 5 players, can you be allowed to dream of a "virtual" no.2? ;)

TheMightyFed
09-30-2005, 04:17 PM
Besides if you lose to no.1, who is seemingly unbeatable and the best player ever, at GS or TMS finals or semifinals time and time again and otherwise you have decent records against any other top 5 players, can you be allowed to dream of a "virtual" no.2? ;)
Short answer : No ;)

TheMightyFed
09-30-2005, 04:20 PM
I mean, for me Nadal deserves his spot, on consistency, fighting power, fitness, professionalism, even versatility to some extent, and even in his H2H with Rog over 04-05 (2-1), which in itself is some achievement.
Marat would be more a "virtual" number 2 on pure talent and all-round game and ability to beat the number 1, but this means nothing...
Hewitt was double-bagled in USO finals 04, I don't see that happening any time soon to Nadal facing Rog in finals, even in Wimby...

soonha
09-30-2005, 05:00 PM
I mean, for me Nadal deserves his spot, on consistency, fighting power, fitness, professionalism, even versatility to some extent, and even in his H2H with Rog over 04-05 (2-1), which in itself is some achievement.
Marat would be more a "virtual" number 2 on pure talent and all-round game and ability to beat the number 1, but this means nothing...
Hewitt was double-bagled in USO finals 04, I don't see that happening any time soon to Nadal facing Rog in finals, even in Wimby...
I know what's your point. I'm not saying that Nadal doesn't deserve his spot and Hewitt does. I mean, just try to be more generous and objective because I think Hewitt deserves a little respect. The double bagel at USO is a result from the combination of a bad match-up btw Roger and Hewitt AND an extraordinary play by Roger, not from the poor performance of Hewitt. Again, to make things clear, I don't like Hewitt as a person or as a player. :)

TheMightyFed
09-30-2005, 05:06 PM
I know what's your point. I'm not saying that Nadal doesn't deserve his spot and Hewitt does.
Even if you said Hewitt deserves his spot I would agree : Number 5 !!

soonha
09-30-2005, 05:19 PM
Even if you said Hewitt deserves his spot I would agree : Number 5 !!
Yeah, sorry for poor English :o . I was supposed to write "I'm not saying that Nadal doesn't deserve no.2 and Hewitt does". Wow, do you know you're making me look like a Hewitt fan, which is the last thing I want?

victory1
09-30-2005, 06:55 PM
Well, it appears that leyton also really believes what his coach says because after Wimbledon he has also said that he believes himself to be second best player in the world. I think they actually feel like that, which is alright if you keep to yourself. But to announce it and to know that real No. 2 is someone else, is to me quite bad

leyton: "I've got no doubt that I feel like I'm the second best player going around right at the moment. It's just that the best player going around is pretty bloody good. "

At the time he was rank #2 and they gave Andy the #2 seed, so he was correct in his assessment because they lost to the same player but Hewitt looked better losing! ;)

BlackSilver
09-30-2005, 07:33 PM
Currently Nadal is No 2, but if the Slams only count Hewitt has two GS to Nadal's one, so is the better player in terms of career and titles. This can change though, and Rafa badly wants to win Wimbledon, hope he can achieve this.

Using this brilliant criterion, Federer is the world number two, and Hewitt is world number four.............

R.Federer
09-30-2005, 07:35 PM
At the time he was rank #2 and they gave Andy the #2 seed, so he was correct in his assessment because they lost to the same player but Hewitt looked better losing! ;)
In race or in atp ranking? I thought in the race he was lower than 2 (wasn't he 5 at the time of Wimbledon).

victory1
09-30-2005, 08:06 PM
In race or in atp ranking? I thought in the race he was lower than 2 (wasn't he 5 at the time of Wimbledon).
He was lower then #2 in the race but at the time he missed the entire clay court season due to an injury but still was ranked #2! ;)