A new doping case among argentines ?? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

A new doping case among argentines ??

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Galaxystorm
09-25-2005, 12:48 PM
Has anbody listened a rumour about one of argentines his doping tests came out positive in Roland Garros ???

If i'm not wrong an argentine TV ( i don't know which ) says it , and it's still necessary the counter-analysis.

*Ljubica*
09-25-2005, 12:54 PM
Has anbody listened a rumour about one of argentines his doping tests came out positive in Roland Garros ???

If i'm not wrong an argentine TV ( i don't know which ) says it , and it's still necessary the counter-analysis.

I was at RG when this rumour first came out. I hadn't heard about it much since so thought it had all been cleared up and forgotten about, but seems not :confused: I haven't heard the latest rumours though so can't help you anymore.

Fergie
09-25-2005, 01:00 PM
I heard yesterday from Mauro Viale but I don't know if it's true ...

Nacho
09-25-2005, 01:07 PM
pfff not another one please

oneandonlyhsn
09-25-2005, 01:14 PM
OMG :tape: plz not Mariano, plz

Galaxystorm
09-25-2005, 01:16 PM
OMG :tape: plz not Mariano, plz

it seems it's a good argentine player, surely a top 50 .

GoSandrine
09-25-2005, 01:18 PM
My bet's on Coria :drink:

oneandonlyhsn
09-25-2005, 01:18 PM
it seems it's a good argentine player, surely a top 50 .

:sad: Merde, I really like all the ones I can think of, Chela is really the only 1 am ambivalent to

ClaycourtaZzZz.
09-25-2005, 01:20 PM
:retard:

I bet Chela again:haha:

Galaxystorm
09-25-2005, 01:23 PM
I bet for a top 20 player . The rumor is that the player is very good ( but maybe this fact isn't true ).

*Ljubica*
09-25-2005, 01:29 PM
Forget Puerta and Chela (and Coria for that matter) - they've all been in trouble before and neither of them are that stupid ;)

Fergie
09-25-2005, 01:30 PM
He said 2 names and wasn't Chela

Galaxystorm
09-25-2005, 01:32 PM
He said 2 names and wasn't Chela

Can you tell us the two names ? , please

Fergie
09-25-2005, 01:33 PM
Can you tell us the two names ? , please
GG or DN ;)

Galaxystorm
09-25-2005, 01:37 PM
GG or DN ;)

Tricky tricky :scratch: ... ;)

jazz_girl
09-25-2005, 01:38 PM
I wouldn't pay too much attention to what this guy says...

*Ljubica*
09-25-2005, 01:39 PM
It's a very good idea NOT to put names down here - it's called libel ;) until anyone has been named officially.

Choupi
09-25-2005, 01:41 PM
GG or DN ;)
After Coria, Chela, Puerta and Cañas, those names come logical on the list of the Argentines to nail and hang publicly. Why am I not surprised?

Galaxystorm
09-25-2005, 01:43 PM
Maybe D N took something to lose weight :lol:

ClaycourtaZzZz.
09-25-2005, 01:44 PM
like EPO-Lance:rocker2:

Truc
09-25-2005, 01:47 PM
Who is this Mauro Viale you are talking about?

Denaon
09-25-2005, 01:49 PM
I wouldn't pay too much attention to what this guy says...
If this guy's name is Mauro Viale, the best thing you should do is neither trust nor pay attention to him, he'll do anything for publicity, I'd say he lacks from ethics.

Denaon
09-25-2005, 01:52 PM
Who is this Mauro Viale you are talking about?
A lame so-called journalist. :rolleyes:

jazz_girl
09-25-2005, 01:53 PM
If this guy's name is Mauro Viale, the best thing you should do is neither trust nor pay attention to him, he'll do anything for publicity, I'd say he lacks from ethics.
If we're talking about Yellow Press the N°1 person to think, that's Viale :rolleyes: I'm sick of him and the way he celebrates everytime Puerta loses, just because Mariano didn't want to go to his tv show :mad:

Galaxystorm
09-25-2005, 01:53 PM
Who is this Mauro Viale you are talking about?

An argentine journalist ,controversial , and without too much credibility

Denaon
09-25-2005, 01:53 PM
If we're talking about Yellow Press the N°1 person to think, that's Viale :rolleyes: I'm sick of him and the way he celebrates everytime Puerta loses, just because Mariano didn't want to go to his tv show :mad:
:eek: I did not know that........NOW IT'S PERSONAL :fiery:
:rolls:

*Ljubica*
09-25-2005, 02:16 PM
Sadly Viale is not the only source of this rumour though - as I said earlier - I was hearing it right back from RG when I was actually at the tournament. He is just repeating what is already going around.

Action Jackson
09-25-2005, 02:50 PM
Is it a rumour or is it fact? Hopefully it can be sorted out soon enough.

Denaon
09-25-2005, 02:54 PM
Sadly Viale is not the only source of this rumour though - as I said earlier - I was hearing it right back from RG when I was actually at the tournament. He is just repeating what is already going around.
If I start that kind of rumour, do you think it would be dismissed? I bet it'll grow as a snowball.
To equal doping=argentina is a pretty easy task these days. Maybe that all started in RG just because Mariano reached the final.

*Ljubica*
09-25-2005, 03:12 PM
If I start that kind of rumour, do you think it would be dismissed? I bet it'll grow as a snowball.
To equal doping=argentina is a pretty easy task these days. Maybe that all started in RG just because Mariano reached the final.

No - it started long before the Final and had absolutely nothing to do with Mariano. As GWH says - the truth will come out soon enough.

Denaon
09-25-2005, 03:16 PM
No - it started long before the Final and had absolutely nothing to do with Mariano. As GWH says - the truth will come out soon enough.
I hope it does, I certainly do not know what else to think about this :(

sigmagirl91
09-25-2005, 03:17 PM
I'm thinking that this was in connection with Cañas because it's around the same time period. If this is the case, then this guy is just shooting hot air.

hablovah19
09-25-2005, 03:18 PM
yikes... more drama with the argentines !! :(

Denaon
09-25-2005, 03:18 PM
I'm thinking that this was in connection with Cañas because it's around the same time period. If this is the case, then this guy is just shooting hot air.
I guess you're right, I forgot him.

sigmagirl91
09-25-2005, 03:20 PM
I guess you're right, I forgot him.

So, if this is the case, then this thread is redundant and totally unnecessary. Why doesn't that guy get a real news program rather than the "puppet show" he's running right now?

Denaon
09-25-2005, 03:23 PM
So, if this is the case, then this thread is redundant and totally unnecessary. Why doesn't that guy get a real news program rather than the "puppet show" he's running right now?
He's done his shitty program for years now......the fact is he has some audience.

sigmagirl91
09-25-2005, 03:27 PM
He's done his shitty program for years now......the fact is he has some audience.

I will tell you this: if the more credible newspapers in your country haven't touched the story, then chances are, it's not true. I believe that this guy is way off the mark and totally out of the loop on some things, apparently, because reporting things after the fact wrecks credibility.

revolution
09-25-2005, 03:37 PM
I don't think Nalbandian would cheat, so I'd count him out.

sigmagirl91
09-25-2005, 03:38 PM
Just a word to the thread starter: what was the original air date of this program? Programs from foreign countries are usually behind at least three months in broadcasting. If that's the case, then you got wind of "old news".

jazz_girl
09-25-2005, 03:41 PM
It was live and it was yesterday.

sigmagirl91
09-25-2005, 04:03 PM
OK...but do you believe him?

Peoples
09-25-2005, 04:27 PM
It's rumoured that it's Coria again...

MariaV
09-25-2005, 04:28 PM
Rumours rumours.

Denaon
09-25-2005, 04:29 PM
It's rumoured that it's Coria again...
Weren't you the one that got mad in the Agassi Doped thread? :rolleyes:

fabolous
09-25-2005, 04:43 PM
It's rumoured that it's Coria again...
i'll respond to that with a quote of yours:
Get the **** outta here pointless ***hole and take your stupid ass rumours **** with you

Denaon
09-25-2005, 04:44 PM
i'll respond to that with a quote of yours:
:yeah: exactly

Nikki♥
09-25-2005, 04:47 PM
i'll respond to that with a quote of yours:

:haha:

Peoples
09-25-2005, 05:14 PM
i'll respond to that with a quote of yours:
Screw you.. Well I never had the exclamation marks and clearly said it was a rumour. It's justified cause Coria has done drugs before, giving a reason for suspicion. You might reply to me that, yeah pretty much all Argentines have done it before, so why not anyone else. But I only heard the Coria rumour recently.

purple_star
09-25-2005, 05:56 PM
no please, not coria!!! i would die of heart attack if he would be suspended again..
i hope this is just a rumour.. :confused:

sigmagirl91
09-25-2005, 07:04 PM
Coria? Again? Get outta dodge, dude!!!

LoveFifteen
09-25-2005, 07:08 PM
This is all George Bush's fault. And America's! And Roddick's!

liptea
09-25-2005, 07:15 PM
This is all George Bush's fault. And America's! And Roddick's!

No! It's Mirka's fault! She ate the Argentines!

alfonsojose
09-25-2005, 07:15 PM
GG or DN ;)
GiGi and DaNa :tape:

sigmagirl91
09-25-2005, 07:16 PM
GiGi and DaNa :tape:

Fonsie :angel:
Be nice.

star
09-25-2005, 07:20 PM
To me, if a player is caught a second time, it should be a complete ban. And that goes even if it is one of my favorite players.

sigmagirl91
09-25-2005, 07:25 PM
To me, if a player is caught a second time, it should be a complete ban. And that goes even if it is one of my favorite players.

I was thinking about the "three strikes" rule, but the way the doping regs are administered and interpreted, it wouldn't work. Thus, if a player were caught a second time (would this be a precedent, by the way?), he should be subject to a complete and permanent ban from the sport.

Action Jackson
09-25-2005, 07:29 PM
In other sports like athletics the second time an athlete is caught for doping, then they get a life ban, there was a recent case of Jerome Young getting caught again and he is out for life.

star
09-25-2005, 07:33 PM
I was thinking about the "three strikes" rule, but the way the doping regs are administered and interpreted, it wouldn't work. Thus, if a player were caught a second time (would this be a precedent, by the way?), he should be subject to a complete and permanent ban from the sport.

It's so hard to catch. You could go a whole career and not be caught 3 times. So, I vote for a ban the second time around.


The question then is what do you do with someone who gets caught with a masking agent? Are they banned too?

sigmagirl91
09-25-2005, 07:37 PM
The question then is what do you do with someone who gets caught with a masking agent? Are they banned too?

I believe so, and they absolutely should be banned for being that stupid.

star
09-25-2005, 07:38 PM
:lol: :lol:

The stupidity ban. :lol:

sigmagirl91
09-25-2005, 07:40 PM
:lol: :lol:

The stupidity ban. :lol:

Of course. At that point, the person should just retire.

star
09-25-2005, 07:42 PM
It's like most things in life. The smart crooks don't so often wind up in jail. ;)

sigmagirl91
09-25-2005, 07:47 PM
And that's sad.

star
09-25-2005, 07:49 PM
Very

jazz_girl
09-25-2005, 10:52 PM
OK...but do you believe him?
Not at all! We're talking about a person who said live on tv that a famous actor's dad has been killed during a kidnap, when in fact he was alive!!! He was rescued days after that! And that's just one random example, I wouldn't believe anything he says...

star
09-25-2005, 10:54 PM
Well, that's good then. I hope there isn't a new case of an Argentine testing positive. You'd think it would all be out in the open by this time anyway.

sigmagirl91
09-25-2005, 10:55 PM
Not at all! We're talking about a person who said live on tv that a famous actor's dad has been killed during a kidnap, when in fact he was alive!!! He was rescued days after that! And that's just one random example, I wouldn't believe anything he says...

Tsk, tsk...someone should take this guy to task. You don't talk about stuff like that-whether you're kidding or not.

sigmagirl91
09-25-2005, 10:56 PM
Well, that's good then. I hope there isn't a new case of an Argentine testing positive. You'd think it would all be out in the open by this time anyway.

That's what I was telling another poster on here. If it were true, the newspaper outlets-the legit ones anyway-would be all over it.

gravity
09-25-2005, 11:24 PM
It's so hard to catch. You could go a whole career and not be caught 3 times. So, I vote for a ban the second time around.

The question then is what do you do with someone who gets caught with a masking agent? Are they banned too?

Yep.

But I want to see all cheaters banned for life, and not just drug cheats. So I propose we ban anyone who gets caught benefiting from a crap line call on a TV replay. If you're not 100% sure the ball was out, you should not be accepting the point period.

star
09-25-2005, 11:28 PM
Yep.

But I want to see all cheaters banned for life, and not just drug cheats. So I propose we ban anyone who gets caught benefiting from a crap line call on a TV replay. If you're not 100% sure the ball was out, you should not be accepting the point period.

:haha: :haha: :haha:

NyGeL
09-26-2005, 03:52 AM
I heard yesterday from Mauro Viale but I don't know if it's true ...

:haha:

lollybop
09-26-2005, 05:23 PM
A heard the rumor too, but i can't believe in what Mauro Viale says, he is not serious at all

lorenz
09-26-2005, 07:57 PM
Mauro Viale is a dirty rat. I can't believe anything from him.
Mauro rata sucia, espero que te tengas que comer tus palabras !!

lollybop
09-26-2005, 09:12 PM
mmmm this is getting too serious. i've just heard on the radio about the news. they said the "could be another dopping case in argentina", but they didn't talk about one player... i just hope that this would be a confussion, and the press be sure about what the're saying, becuse is a very serious thing to say lies

Denaon
09-26-2005, 09:24 PM
mmmm this is getting too serious. i've just heard on the radio about the news. they said the "could be another dopping case in argentina", but they didn't talk about one player... i just hope that this would be a confussion, and the press be sure about what the're saying, becuse is a very serious thing to say lies
Which radio are you talking about

*Ljubica*
09-26-2005, 09:30 PM
As I posted before, I think this is serious and has nothing to do with this Viale guy - who obviously picked up the news and mentioned it on his show - but only because there was already so much rumour/speculation going on. When I was at RG there was so much talk about it - and it wasn't anything to do with the Cañas thing at all. I hope you know, Daniel, that I am not a person to generally spread or believe in gossip and rumours (especially where my beloved Argentines are concerned), and I still wholeheartedly believe in Willy Cañas' innocence, (and Puerta's for that matter), but I'm afraid there is something bad going on here :sad: even though I hate to say it.

lorenz
09-26-2005, 09:33 PM
Oh shit !!!
I can't stand it anymore !!!! Seriously

Denaon
09-26-2005, 09:39 PM
As I posted before, I think this is serious and has nothing to do with this Viale guy - who obviously picked up the news and mentioned it on his show - but only because there was already so much rumour/speculation going on. When I was at RG there was so much talk about it - and it wasn't anything to do with the Cañas thing at all. I hope you know, Daniel, that I am not a person to generally spread or believe in gossip and rumours (especially where my beloved Argentines are concerned), and I still wholeheartedly believe in Willy Cañas' innocence, (and Puerta's for that matter), but there is something bad going on here :sad:
I won't say anything, I know you'll be as dissapointed as many of us :hug:
I'll wait for any real news about this (it hopefully never happen) it hurts a lot to pay attention to speculations.

oneandonlyhsn
09-26-2005, 09:45 PM
This sounds more and more like an ongoing case now :sad: I just dont want any of my favs caught in the middle of anything :(

I dont like cheats, particulalry in sports but this would be a huge blow for the Argentines if it turns out to be true and especially if it is a top player. Their crediblity would really go down the drain

Sommarsverige
09-26-2005, 09:46 PM
I won't say anything, I know you'll be as dissapointed as many of us :hug:
I'll wait for any real news about this (it hopefully never happen) it hurts a lot to pay attention to speculations.

Daniel, from your post it really sounds that you know something... :sad: I don´t want you to say it, but I already start praying that it is not one of the guys I am thinking about... Please let this only be a rumour :worship:

Denaon
09-26-2005, 09:52 PM
Daniel, from your post it really sounds that you know something... :sad: I don´t want you to say it, but I already start praying that it is not one of the guys I am thinking about... Please let this only be a rumour :worship:
Oh no, I don't ...hun don't worry about anyone (but everyone....)
I said I won't say anything (I just translated what I thought in spanish) coz I don't want to speculate about this. I'm tired of trying to find a "reason" or a "logical point of view" to these kind of rumours...if they're just rumour, they'll fade away soon...and I'm praying for that.

Galaxystorm
09-26-2005, 10:29 PM
Now i was wondering if doping tests at Grand Slams are taken by ITF or ATP , i guess they are ITF tests.

I said this , because one of the usual argentine " excuses " is that Mark Miles wants to kill argentine tennis , Miles is persecuting argentine players ....

Maybe this time this " excuse " won't can be used.

sigmagirl91
09-26-2005, 11:09 PM
This is too weird. Since no names are being tossed around, I guess we wait-again.

jazz_girl
09-27-2005, 12:10 AM
As I posted before, I think this is serious and has nothing to do with this Viale guy - who obviously picked up the news and mentioned it on his show - but only because there was already so much rumour/speculation going on. When I was at RG there was so much talk about it - and it wasn't anything to do with the Cañas thing at all. I hope you know, Daniel, that I am not a person to generally spread or believe in gossip and rumours (especially where my beloved Argentines are concerned), and I still wholeheartedly believe in Willy Cañas' innocence, (and Puerta's for that matter), but I'm afraid there is something bad going on here :sad: even though I hate to say it.
But they're not saying the rumors started in RG, but that the test was positive in RG...

oneandonlyhsn
09-27-2005, 01:37 AM
But they're not saying the rumors started in RG, but that the test was positive in RG...

:eek: That really doesnt look good, I just wish they ITF or ATP would put a stop to this mess already. I'm sure the Argentine players must be a little nervous too right now, hell I'm nervous for them

*Ljubica*
09-27-2005, 06:30 AM
But they're not saying the rumors started in RG, but that the test was positive in RG...

Yes - I know - but if you're actually staying somewhere and something like that happens, sadly the rumours start flying around within about 24 hours :sad: I still totally hope it's not true but sadly I am not convinced :sad:

Action Jackson
09-27-2005, 06:39 AM
Now i was wondering if doping tests at Grand Slams are taken by ITF or ATP , i guess they are ITF tests.

I said this , because one of the usual argentine " excuses " is that Mark Miles wants to kill argentine tennis , Miles is persecuting argentine players ....

Maybe this time this " excuse " won't can be used.

The ITF do testing at the Slams.

sigmagirl91
09-27-2005, 08:41 AM
Yes - I know - but if you're actually staying somewhere and something like that happens, sadly the rumours start flying around within about 24 hours :sad: I still totally hope it's not true but sadly I am not convinced :sad:

I'm interested to see what comes out of this, myself.

brujyster
09-27-2005, 01:52 PM
This one got caught and is NOT an Argentine:

Bogomolov banned


American tennis player Alex Bogomolov Jr has been suspended after testing positive for a banned substance at this year's Australian Open, the International Tennis Federation said in a statement on its website."

The ITF said the 22-year-old Bogomolov gave a sample on January 13 which contained salbutamol, although it accepted his explanation that he took the drug to treat asthma.

"An independent Tribunal has ruled that Alex Bogomolov Jr has been found to have committed a doping offence under the ITF's Tennis Anti-Doping Programme 2005," the ITF said.

"The Tribunal found that there had been no intent to enhance performance by the taking of salbutamol (a specified substance under the World Anti-Doping Code), so that the otherwise mandatory two-year ban did not apply.

"However, the player was found to be at fault for failing to take personal responsibility for ensuring that he had a valid TUE (Therapeutic Use Exemption) to cover the use of salbutamol.

Bogomolov, who lost in the first round of qualifying for the Australian Open and is ranked a lowly 190 in the world, is suspended for one-and-a-half months, starting from September 26.

He must also forfeit prize money and ranking points earned at the Australian Open and events up to and including the Mexico City Challenger which ended April 10.

He can return to competition on November 10.

-----------

One and a half month or an asthma medicine? Puerta got several months!!!

Eléa
09-27-2005, 04:33 PM
I'm so scared now :sad:
i was already a bit depressed, now i'm devasted :tears:
i know i shouldn't believe rumours but, it's hard to act like it doesn't exist...

Denaon
09-27-2005, 04:46 PM
I'm so scared now :sad:
i was already a bit depressed, now i'm devasted :tears:
i know i shouldn't believe rumours but, it's hard to act like it doesn't exist...
Eléa, don't pay attention to rumours....and remain calmed. IF and I repeat it IF there's been another case, we will know it right away, meanwhile be patient.

Truc
09-27-2005, 04:50 PM
IF and I repeat it IF there's been another case, we will know itright away.
That's what I was going to ask:
If the whole story is true, are you sure we will know it very shortly? How long does it take normally to have an official statement? Does it vary from case to case?

Denaon
09-27-2005, 04:58 PM
That's what I was going to ask:
If the whole story is true, are you sure we will know it very shortly? How long does it take normally to have an official statement? Does it vary from case to case?
I sincerely don't know, but I must sadly say that these rumours have been increasing so fast that reminds me the time before Willy Cañas' testing positive came to light, although on a second thought it was Cañas who mad it public (that he was the one that tested positive)

Eléa
09-27-2005, 05:02 PM
I sincerely don't know, but I must sadly say that these rumours have been increasing so fast that reminds me the time before Willy Cañas' testing positive came to light, although on a second thought it was Cañas who mad it public (that he was the one that tested positive)You don't comfort me by telling that :sad:
Waiting is so hard :s

Denaon
09-27-2005, 05:07 PM
You don't comfort me by telling that :sad:
Waiting is so hard :s
I know, I'm absolutely confused about this too. But the best thing we can do is to wait and pray for this to be a mistake...

*Ljubica*
09-27-2005, 05:31 PM
I sincerely don't know, but I must sadly say that these rumours have been increasing so fast that reminds me the time before Willy Cañas' testing positive came to light, although on a second thought it was Cañas who mad it public (that he was the one that tested positive)

In England, the Press got hold of the Greg Rusedski thing abut 2-3 days before it was confirmed - but - again - it was Greg who "came clean" and publically admitted that he was the one under scrutiny. And Elea :hug: - please don't worry. Just as I am personally 99% sure that these rumours are going to turn out to be true :sad: I am equally sure that the person you support will not be implicated.

Galaxystorm
09-27-2005, 05:39 PM
This question isn't linked to this thread but i didn't want to open a new thread just to ask this question.

Does anyone know who is the current Coria's physical trainer ?? and is he argentine ??

Thanks.

Denaon
09-27-2005, 05:44 PM
This question isn't linked to this thread but i didn't want to open a new thread just to ask this question.

Does anyone know who is the current Coria's physical trainer ?? and is he argentine ??

Thanks.
Sorry, I can't help you :shrug:

I'm just curious about how long do these tests take to be analyzed. I mean each sample they take, how soon do they test the sample for doping? Is it in a week's period, more, less? :confused:

*Ljubica*
09-27-2005, 05:44 PM
This question isn't linked to this thread but i didn't want to open a new thread just to ask this question.

Does anyone know who is the current Coria's physical trainer ?? and is he argentine ??

Thanks.

Up until the US Open it was Javier Capitaine - and yes, he is Argentine - used to work with Nalbandian in 2004. As far as I know, they are still working together now, but I said "up until" because I know he was not in Beijing a couple of weeks ago with Coria...... of course that may just have been for family/personal reasons or it may mean they have split in the last few weeks :confused: . He has been with Coria all year til now though.

fco253
09-27-2005, 06:52 PM
BTW, Bogomolov just got 1 1/2 month for salbutamol, a substitute of clembuterol, also used for asthma, for which Mariano got 9 MONTHS!

Now the maisntream press in Argentina is starting to pick up the story, so I sadly believe that this will indeed will be anounced at some point...

Remember the Cañas issue was in February (Acapulco), and was announced in late June (although Willy went public in advance) .. so if it was in RG, the annoucement should be next month...

I still think the Argentine players do the same things that player all over the world do, but with a nice touch of unprofesionalism and/or negligence from themselves, their staffs and entourages...

Jenrios
09-27-2005, 06:56 PM
After Coria, Chela, Puerta and Cañas, those names come logical on the list of the Argentines to nail and hang publicly. Why am I not surprised?

that's what I was thinking - by a process of elimination of those who have been caught, there aren't many top Argentine players to choose from.

Jenrios
09-27-2005, 07:01 PM
I really hope it isn't an Argentine player - and I'd be gutted if it was Gaudio.

Nathaliia
09-27-2005, 07:05 PM
Truly saying, we were talking in Szczecin to one player from Argentina about doping. He said many interesting things which I'm not gonna quote here because they were very sincere and I don't have any reasons why I shouldn't believe, but what I think as well and I agree is that Argentinian federation is too weak and doesn't support the players like other federations do.

*Ljubica*
09-27-2005, 07:09 PM
Truly saying, we were talking in Szczecin to one player from Argentina about doping. He said many interesting things which I'm not gonna quote here because they were very sincere and I don't have any reasons why I shouldn't believe, but what I think as well and I agree is that Argentinian federation is too weak and doesn't support the players like other federations do.

I have had similar conversations Nathi -and I agree with you 100%

lollybop
09-27-2005, 07:48 PM
For the one who asked, i heard about the rumor in Radio Del Plata, en Fernando Bravo's programme. I think in this kind of cases, the only one momento for talk (talking about press) is when you have an official comunicaction, not for gossips. If not, you have yellow press and people with bad intention talking around

Denaon
09-27-2005, 07:56 PM
For the one who asked, i heard about the rumor in Radio Del Plata, en Fernando Bravo's programme. I think in this kind of cases, the only one momento for talk (talking about press) is when you have an official comunicaction, not for gossips. If not, you have yellow press and people with bad intention talking around
It was me who asked, thanks. :)

NicoFan
09-27-2005, 08:41 PM
I hope this is all rumors.

If it isn't and it's another Argentine, I'll be devastated. Especially Gaston or David.

Its out of control, but there doesn't seem to be anyone doing anything about it - no outside investigations or anything. I can't believe that the Argentines are stupid enough to keep committing the same errors. And if it is true, I can't believe that they are the only ones doing it.

Quite scary...

tennyfan
09-27-2005, 08:51 PM
What would happen if the party in question played in the Davis Cup tie against Slovakia and Argentina would have won? Would they have had to forfeit the win? If this is the case, I don't think Mancini would name anyone to the team that could have jeopardized the Davis Cup tie and therefore we can eliminate those named to the Argentine team. If I recall correctly, didn't Canas forego Davis Cup in Australia because he was under investigation?

Is it possible the rumors that started at Roland Garros were actually referring to Canas and this isn't a new case at all? A few months ago, the Argentine television networks reported another Argentine player was involved in a doping investigation and the report turned out to be totally incorrect. It was Canas and not this player. Since then, I take anything in the Argentine press with a grain of salt.

sigmagirl91
09-27-2005, 08:55 PM
Is it possible the rumors that started at Roland Garros were actually referring to Canas and this isn't a new case at all? A few months ago, the Argentine television networks reported another Argentine player was involved in a doping investigation and the report turned out to be totally incorrect. It was Canas and not this player. Since then, I take anything in the Argentine press with a grain of salt.

I think this whole doping thing is referring to Cañas, since it was around the same time period-if anyone can recall correctly. If this is the case, then some folks in the Argentine media have compromised their credibility.

tennyfan
09-27-2005, 09:16 PM
I just checked my old emails, and it was May 8 when my friend in Argentina heard the false report on the Argentine news. I think it was a week or 2 later when Canas made his investigation public. If the rumors were going around at Roland Garros, then I think the sample must have been taken before that time.

Denaon
09-27-2005, 09:16 PM
I think this whole doping thing is referring to Cañas, since it was around the same time period-if anyone can recall correctly. If this is the case, then some folks in the Argentine media have compromised their credibility.
There's no such thing called "credibility" in these media creatures we were talking about...As in any country, there's good and "bad" journalism.

sigmagirl91
09-27-2005, 09:19 PM
There's no such thing called "credibility" in these media creatures we were talking about...As in any country, there's good and "bad" journalism.

I know that, but the journalist who broke the story will be accountable (up to and including a lawsuit) if it is false. Is that person prepared for that-just in case?

sigmagirl91
09-27-2005, 09:22 PM
I just checked my old emails, and it was May 8 when my friend in Argentina heard the false report on the Argentine news. I think it was a week or 2 later when Canas made his investigation public. If the rumors were going around at Roland Garros, then I think the sample must have been taken before that time.

Then again...we are hearing conflicting reports. Some say the story came out at RG, and others say the positive test came up at RG. This story will get interesting still the longer it goes on. What next? Will we be told that this mysterious Argentine is not really Argentine?

lorenz
09-27-2005, 09:33 PM
What if it wasn't argentine?
It would be very strange if it was Nadal for example. :p

tennyfan
09-27-2005, 09:34 PM
I think Rosie said she heard the rumor *at* Roland Garros, so I don't think it could have been a sample from Roland Garros. I think everything points to the old Canas case. I guess time will tell.

*Ljubica*
09-27-2005, 09:42 PM
I think Rosie said she heard the rumor *at* Roland Garros, so I don't think it could have been a sample from Roland Garros. I think everything points to the old Canas case. I guess time will tell.

Why not? It only takes a very short while to take a test and get an almost immediate result. Then it only takes one person to say something and the whole rumour starts.

tennyfan
09-27-2005, 09:48 PM
Why not? It only takes a very short while to take a test and get an almost immediate result. Then it only takes one person to say something and the whole rumour starts.

I had bloodwork last week and it was several days before the results came back. I just assumed the ATP sent the samples out to labs and the results came back later.

*Ljubica*
09-27-2005, 09:51 PM
I just assumed they sent the samples out to labs and the results came back later.

Yes - I think in some cases this is what would happen - but in others the results would come back much quicker. I am not a medical expert, but guess it would depend what they are looking for/testing for. And of course in a tournament that lasts a fortnight, results could still come back during the life of that tourney - even if they took a week/10 days to come back. And then of course you would only need one person to open their mouths and say something they shouldn't (maybe in a Bar after a few drinks), and rumours gain a life of their own.

Julio1974
09-27-2005, 10:30 PM
I know that, but the journalist who broke the story will be accountable (up to and including a lawsuit) if it is false. Is that person prepared for that-just in case?

Most Argentine journalists are well prepared. They don't have a single asset in their names!

Baseline
09-28-2005, 02:47 AM
Each case is unique of course, but here's info on the most recent one to help us understand a bit about the procedures. Surprised me how the player didn't get the initial letters and was unaware for weeks of the offense! So I guess a player under suspicion might not know for some time, and anyone tested at the tournament in question might be nervous whether or not they are under scrutiny if rumours surface about a positive test - scary.

A list of who was tested at each tournament is on the ATP site too, but most recent is for 2004 I think. I guess by next year you can read the 2005 list and see which players were actually tested at RG 05. A variety of tables of actual testing by player and event available at:
http://www.atptennis.com/en/antidoping/stats.asp
_________________
A little info from ATP anti-doping site on dates of Bogomolov's tests, from the Tribunal report. http://www.atptennis.com/en/antidoping/

13 Jan 2001 player was selected for doping control and gave a urine sample. Had recently used “Ventolen”.

The player’s A sample was analysed at the WADA accredited laboratory in Montreal and found to contain salbutamol in a concentration of about 129 ng/ml.

3 February 2005 The certificate of analysis was faxed to IDTM. Mr Staffan Sahlstrom of IDTM, the ITF Anti-Doping Programme Administrator (“APA”), convened a Review Board in accordance with Article J.2 of the Programme.

By 5 April 2005 all three Review Board members had reached the conclusion that there was a case to answer - harboured doubts about whether the player should be charged with a doping offence.

2 June 2005 (on or about) letter was sent by mail to the player’s home address in Miami informing him of the adverse test result and that the B sample would be analysed in Montreal on 9 June unless the player admitted the doping offence. The player did not receive the letter. He had been playing in a tournament in the Czech Republic which started on 30 May 2005. The letter was forwarded to his sister’s house in New York.

On 9 May 2005 the player’s B sample was analysed, without his knowledge, in Montreal and found to contain salbutamol in a concentration of about 134 ng/ml.

13 June 2005 player in qualifying rounds of Wimbledon

15 June 2005 (on or about) while at Wimbledon an ATP supervisor showed him a fax copy of the letter that had been sent to his home in Miami. The player still did not realise there might be a problem with his exemption for use of his inhaler. He thought a mistake had been made. The supervisor explained to him that he would have to hire a lawyer and that there would be a legal process.

29 June 2005. Player was charged with a doping offence by letter.

7 and 14 July 2005 Player sent 2 FAXES indicating that he wished to defend himself against the charge and requesting a hearing. (wow, FAXES, much faster than LETTERS, wonder why the ATP didn't think of those???)

ATP Anti-Doping Documents List, Incl. Canas Tribunal Decision:

http://www.atptennis.com/en/antidoping/info_warnings.asp

victoria_maraude
09-28-2005, 06:35 AM
Yesterday the Davis Cup team came back to Argentina and the press asked Mancini if he knew anything about an Argentinian player testing positive at Roland Garros. He said that he heard the rumour but he didn't pay attention to it.
I hope it's not true. Sadly, they're talking about it everywhere. And I remember with Willy's case it started as a rumour and then it was confirmated.
And why is everyone thinking just in the top Argentine players? They say it could be Gaudio, Coria or Nalbandian, but why anyone talk about others players like Calleri, Monaco or Acasuso? Just a doubt i have.

Baseline
09-28-2005, 06:52 AM
The more I think about how the ATP informs players only by letters sent to their registered home address, the more absurd it seems to me. The player was entered in an ATP event at the time. The ATP would know that and could easily inform the player at the event. It's kind of important to know - from the player's perspective, as evidenced by Bogomolov sending 2 FAX replies back once he'd learned of the news.

Also, check out the intriguing new thread on whether the ATP targets certain countries for testing. It's a statistical odds argument I believe - if a certain % of players on tour are doping but you test a much higher % of players from certain countries then you will find a higher % of positives from those countries. This would be an excellent statistics graduate paper for someone -I for one (and I don't believe I'm alone on this either) would love to see how random or not random the ATPs selections and results really are.

As for distribution of drug tests - I don't understand them at all - some players are tested as little as once in an entire year and others a relatively large number. I think it was J. Johansson e.g. who was only tested once in 2004 (urine test, blood is separate table) - why only once? Perhaps there's a reason I don't know of, e.g. injury, but ATP tests off the court too, so shouldn't be the cause. Why can't the ATP test every player the same number of times? I know some will argue back that past offenders should be tested more often - okay fine, then do that, but don't let some players get away with only 1 test in a year, that's not enough to be certain a player isn't doping.

If the ATP is really serious about catching dopers they should test every player at every tournament - it's a bit costly, but they could charge the fees back to the players. It could be done - IF the ATP actually wanted to know the results for every player. I don't believe they do.

What not test everyone everytime to insure there is no doping improving results, and drop the extreme sanctions, like lifetime career bans. If you can test effectively you don't need the sanctions to be so extreme - a harsh deterrent is redundant, only use then is punishment. The tennis world is amazingly harsh compared to other US sports in which players are agreeing to miss just 20 games if they take steroids.

Is the point to clean up the sport, or something else entirely?

~EMiLiTA~
09-30-2005, 08:39 AM
ohhh interesting...thanks for the article...so it was someone who was there in the second week then

oneandonlyhsn
09-30-2005, 08:44 AM
Thanks for the article, its not just fabrication its a fact :sobbing:

Truc
09-30-2005, 08:47 AM
The complete article in "L'Équipe":

"Un cas de dopage à Roland-Garros
Un joueur, dont le nom n’a pas été révélé, a été contrôlé positif à un stimulant prohibé pendant le tournoi 2005.

AU MOINS UN JOUEUR participant au tournoi de Roland-Garros 2005 et présent lors de la deuxième semaine de l’épreuve a été contrôlé positif à un produit stimulant entraînant une suspension de deux ans, si l’intéressé ne peut pas se prévaloir de circonstances atténuantes. Lors de ce tournoi, il avait été prélevé 152 échantillons dont ceux de tous les participants aux huitièmes de finales des épreuves de simple et aux quarts de finale des épreuves de double. Parmi ces échantillons, plusieurs ont révélé la présence de substances soumises à A.U.T. (Autorisation d’usage à fin thérapeutique) dont étaient munis joueurs et joueuses concernés. En revanche, il reste au moins un cas concernant un produit dont l’usage est totalement prohibé par le code de l’Agence mondiale antidopage.
Bien que la contre-expertise ait été positive, le nom du joueur en question ne sera pas officiellement rendu public par les instances du tennis, conformément à leur règlement, avant que son cas n’ait été traité par un tribunal de trois membres indépendants, choisis la plupart du temps au sein de la liste des juges du Tribunal arbitral du sport.

La piste argentine
Il s’agit du cinquième cas de dopage dépisté pendant le tournoi de Roland-Garros depuis 1995, année où Mats Wilander et le Tchèque Karel Nocacek avaient été contrôlés positifs à la cocaïne et suspendus pour trois mois, les trois premiers de leur retraite. Avait suivi en 2002 le cas de la jeune Croate Mirjana Lucic, suspendue pour un mois avec sursis par le CPLD sur le territoire français pour usage d’un antidépresseur peu après retiré des listes des produits interdits ; puis, en 2004, celui de l’Autrichien Stefan Koubek, suspendu trois mois pour usage d’un corticostéroïde sans A.U.T.
Réflexe acquis ou fuite bien orientée, c’est vers l’Argentine que se tournent désormais les regards car le bruit courait depuis quelques jours dans les rédactions de Buenos Aires qu’un nouveau joueur argentin aurait été contrôlé positif durant le tournoi. Pendant la deuxième semaine du tournoi, les Argentins n’étaient pas moins de six en huitièmes de finale du simple messieurs : Nalbandian, Gaudio, Coria, Cañas, Acasuso et Puerta. Mais il y avait aussi Lucas Arnold, Martin Garcia et Mariano Hood dans le double, Paola Suarez, gagnante du double dames, ainsi que quatre juniors.
Dans le cas où la piste argentine serait la bonne, rappelons que trois joueurs de cette liste (Coria, Puerta et Cañas – actuellement suspendu deux ans) ont déjà été sanctionnés pour infraction à la législation antidopage, ainsi que leur compatriote Juan Ignacio Chela. Si l’un d’entre eux était de nouveau concerné, il risquerait alors une suspension à vie."

C3PO
09-30-2005, 08:59 AM
ohhh interesting...thanks for the article...so it was someone who was there in the second week then
Yep someone who was in the second week .. So it's one of them (If it's a male player):

- Federer
- Moya
- Nalbandian
- Hanescu
- Nadal
- Grosjean
- Ferrer
- Gaudio
- Coria
- Davydenko
- Robredo
- Safin
- Kiefer
- Canas
- Puerta
- Acasuso

:confused:

And there is no certainty it's an Argentine player, just suspicion...

sigmagirl91
09-30-2005, 09:01 AM
I can understand some of it, but could someone offer up a translation? Thanks.

Eléa
09-30-2005, 09:09 AM
i can't help myself but shaking from head to toes reading that :sad:
i'm sorry i'm not good enough in english to translate it, it will take me ages! but obviously if nobody wants to translate it, i could try ;)
My stomach hurt now :bigcry:

~EMiLiTA~
09-30-2005, 09:12 AM
i would do it..but i'm a bit busy at the moment...if no one else has done it soon, i can do it for u...

it just basically says that the substance taken is a strictly banned substance and that it was taken by someone who was there in the second week (could be male or female) but that their name will not be released until their case has been looked at by a tribunal of 3 indepedent members.

second para is just about history etc saying it's the 5th time a case has been picked up at RG since 1995 which wilander and nocacek etc. and that nowadays everyone looks towards the argies when there's a doping case. Nalbandian, Gaudio, Coria, Cañas, Acasuso and Puerta were all there in the second week as well as Lucas Arnold, Martin Garcia and Mariano Hood, Paola Suarez and 4 juniors. And with Coria, Puerta, Cañas and Chela all having been banned before, if they are caught again, they risk being suspended for life

sigmagirl91
09-30-2005, 09:14 AM
i would do it..but i'm a bit busy at the moment...if no one else has done it soon, i can do it for u...

it just basically says that the substance taken is a strictly banned substance and that it was taken by someone who was there in the second week (could be male or female) but that their name will not be released until their case has been looked at by a tribunal of 3 indepedent members.

second para is just about history etc saying it's the 5th time a case has been picked up at RG since 1995 which wilander and nocacek etc. and that nowadays everyone looks towards the argies when there's a doping case. Nalbandian, Gaudio, Coria, Cañas, Acasuso and Puerta were all there in the second week as well as Lucas Arnold, Martin Garcia and Mariano Hood, Paola Suarez and 4 juniors. And with Coria, Puerta, Cañas and Chela all having been banned before, if they are caught again, they risk being suspended for life

Interesting.

sigmagirl91
09-30-2005, 09:15 AM
Yep someone who was in the second week .. So it's one of them (If it's a male player):

- Federer
- Moya
- Nalbandian
- Hanescu
- Nadal
- Grosjean
- Ferrer
- Gaudio
- Coria
- Davydenko
- Robredo
- Safin
- Kiefer
- Canas
- Puerta
- Acasuso

:confused:

And there is no certainty it's an Argentine player, just suspicion...

The Argentines seem to be the target these days, since they have four of their own who have been suspended for doping.

Truc
09-30-2005, 09:16 AM
(If it's a male player):
Yes, the article says it can also be a junior or a woman or a double player...
Everybody is talking about the Argies only because of this recent rumour in Argentine.

I'm sorry, my English is not good enough, I can't translate the article. But there is nothing really new in it. (The other story sounded like there were more informations about the "piste argentine" in the original article, that's why I posted it).

sigmagirl91
09-30-2005, 09:18 AM
And why is everyone thinking just in the top Argentine players? They say it could be Gaudio, Coria or Nalbandian, but why anyone talk about others players like Calleri, Monaco or Acasuso? Just a doubt i have.

By a process of elimination, Calleri and Monaco wouldn't even be looked at because the player in question was still in the second week of competition-according to the latest report. No names have been released pending review.

TheMightyFed
09-30-2005, 09:20 AM
Should be Canas, if he was positive in Acapulco, there is a good chance he was still on treatment for the clay GS... he had a good run and had good stamina... plus he upset several French :mad:

Plastic Bertrand
09-30-2005, 09:22 AM
I have an idea which player is targetted by this rumour, but I just hope that I am wrong and I do not think it's Coria or Puerta.

sigmagirl91
09-30-2005, 09:24 AM
Should be Canas, if he was positive in Acapulco, there is a good chance he was still on treatment for the clay GS... he had a good run and had good stamina... plus he upset several French :mad:

You think so?

sigmagirl91
09-30-2005, 09:25 AM
I have an idea which player is targetted by this rumour, but I just hope that I am wrong and I do not think it's Coria or Puerta.

That would be totally screwed up if they or Canas end up being the latest in connection with the rumor (it's not a rumor now; it's fact).

TheMightyFed
09-30-2005, 09:26 AM
You think so?
Yes, just my opinion but the clues are here...
At this stage for him I think a 2 years ban or a life ban doesn't do much of adifference...
hope it's not Rog otherwise we are in deep shit !

sigmagirl91
09-30-2005, 09:27 AM
Yes, just my opinion but the clues are here...
At the stage for him I think a 2 years ban or a life ban doesn't do much of adifference...
hope it's not Rog otherwise we are in deep shit !

Now....the talk is that an Argentine is specifically being targeted. They never mentioned players of other nationalities. If other players are being looked at (of course they would be; the doping allegations wouldn't be reliable if they didn't), then the scenario changes.

TheMightyFed
09-30-2005, 09:30 AM
Now....the talk is that an Argentine is specifically being targeted. They never mentioned players of other nationalities. If other players are being looked at (of course they would be; the doping allegations wouldn't be reliable if they didn't), then the scenario changes.
yeah yeah, I think it's an Argie, we have enough suspects... you have to be nuts to get caught in a GS, imagewise it's a disaster...

Plastic Bertrand
09-30-2005, 09:31 AM
That would be totally screwed up if they or Canas end up being the latest in connection with the rumor (it's not a rumor now; it's fact).

I would rather not say who I think it is, but there are some clues around as to who the most likely individual is. It really should not be taking this amount of time to announce who the player is that has failed this test.

The ITF are responsible for these tests and wasn't Koubek the player that failed a drug test last year? I wonder what the substance is and could it be that a player has tested positive for blood doping.

sigmagirl91
09-30-2005, 09:32 AM
yeah yeah, I think it's an Argie, we have enough suspects... you have to be nuts to get caught in a GS, imagewise it's a disaster...

Imagewise, a disaster.....common sense-wise, it's plain dumb.

sigmagirl91
09-30-2005, 09:33 AM
I would rather not say who I think it is, but there are some clues around as to who the most likely individual is. It really should not be taking this amount of time to announce who the player is that has failed this test.

The ITF are responsible for these tests and wasn't Koubek the player that failed a drug test last year? I wonder what the substance is and could it be that a player has tested positive for blood doping.

This becomes more intriguing by the moment.

TheMightyFed
09-30-2005, 09:36 AM
Imagewise, a disaster.....common sense-wise, it's plain dumb.
but when you see the mountain of cash, you can go crazy...

sigmagirl91
09-30-2005, 09:37 AM
but when you see the mountain of cash, you can go crazy...

True.

Galaxystorm
09-30-2005, 11:35 AM
Yep someone who was in the second week .. So it's one of them (If it's a male player):

- Federer
- Moya
- Nalbandian
- Hanescu
- Nadal
- Grosjean
- Ferrer
- Gaudio
- Coria
- Davydenko
- Robredo
- Safin
- Kiefer
- Canas
- Puerta
- Acasuso

:confused:

And there is no certainty it's an Argentine player, just suspicion...

Moya and Nalbandian fell before Monday, then they shouldn't be in this list

sigmagirl91
09-30-2005, 11:37 AM
Moya and Nalbandian fell before Monday, then they shouldn't be in this list

OK. Then again, they didn't say what day they tested these players.

*Ljubica*
09-30-2005, 11:44 AM
Moya and Nalbandian fell before Monday, then they shouldn't be in this list

In Grand Slam terms I believe - "second week" means 4th round (last 16) - so they should be there. Here is a link to the article on British Europsort for those who can't read the French.

http://www.eurosport.com/home/pages...sto771888.shtml

At least one unnamed player who reached the second week at Roland Garros this year failed a dope test, according to French newspaper L'Equipe. Although both the A and B sample came back positive, tennis officials will not reveal the name until an independent three-person panel reviews the case.

According to the paper, 152 samples were taken from every men's and women's Last 16 match and every doubles quarter-final.

Several revealed banned substances where players provided medical certificates, but at least one turned up with no such authorization.

Law of numbers has the Argentine press worried, according to L'Equipe:

No fewer than 14 Argentines reached the final phases of the French Open (with four juniors), including six in the men's singles Last 16.

One of them - Guillermo Cañas - has since been suspended for two years in a seperate incident at the ATP tournament in Acapulco in February. Cañas and two others - Guillermo Coria and Mariano Puerta - would risk a lifetime ban if convicted a second time of doping.

Galaxystorm
09-30-2005, 11:44 AM
OK. Then again, they didn't say what day they tested these players.

The only thing i can say is that Moya and Nalbandian fell on sunday.

sigmagirl91
09-30-2005, 11:49 AM
According to the article Rosie provided the link to, every competitor in the round of 16 was tested-regardless of what day they played it on. So Moya and Nalbandian were tested.

Action Jackson
09-30-2005, 11:50 AM
http://www.eurosport.com/home/pages/v4/l0/s57/sport_lng0_spo57_sto771888.shtml

Failed French Open dope test - report

At least one unnamed player who reached the second week at Roland Garros this year failed a dope test, according to French newspaper L'Equipe. Although both the A and B sample came back positive, tennis officials will not reveal the name until an independent three-person panel reviews the case.

According to the paper, 152 samples were taken from every men's and women's Last 16 match and every doubles quarter-final.

Several revealed banned substances where players provided medical certificates, but at least one turned up with no such authorization.

Law of numbers has the Argentine press worried, according to L'Equipe:

No fewer than 14 Argentines reached the final phases of the French Open (with four juniors), including six in the men's singles Last 16.

One of them - Guillermo Cañas - has since been suspended for two years in a seperate incident at the ATP tournament in Acapulco in February. Cañas and two others - Guillermo Coria and Mariano Puerta - would risk a lifetime ban if convicted a second time of doping.

Galaxystorm
09-30-2005, 11:55 AM
In Grand Slam terms I believe - "second week" means 4th round (last 16) - so they should be there. Here is a link to the article on British Europsort for those who can't read the French..

I had already thought that L'Equipe maybe is talking about the Round 16 , but i think it's a bit confused and the new should be more specific

Galaxystorm
09-30-2005, 11:59 AM
I have a question : The new says the positive was in Round 16 or only says the positive is among the last 16 players ??

mallorn
09-30-2005, 11:59 AM
Several revealed banned substances where players provided medical certificates, but at least one turned up with no such authorization.
At least one!? :eek: Has more than one player been implicated :confused:

sigmagirl91
09-30-2005, 12:02 PM
I have a question : The new says the positive was in Round 16 or only says the positive is among the last 16 players ??

If I've read this right, the samples were taken among the last 16 competitors in the singles and doubles in the men's, women's, and juniors events (be reminded that the last 16 competitors in doubles are the quarterfinalists) and analyzed. Certainly, the law of averages don't favor the Argentines, as their presence makes up a good portion of the sample group.

Action Jackson
09-30-2005, 12:02 PM
I have a question : The new says the positive was in Round 16 or only says the positive is among the last 16 players ??

What it's saying samples were taken from all players in the 4th round of singles and all the doubles quarter finalists.

sigmagirl91
09-30-2005, 12:02 PM
At least one!? :eek: Has more than one player been implicated :confused:

The way it sounds, yes. Most of them had TUE's, and one did not.

Truc
09-30-2005, 12:31 PM
If I've read this right, the samples were taken among the last 16 competitors in the singles and doubles in the men's, women's, and juniors events (be reminded that the last 16 competitors in doubles are the quarterfinalists) and analyzed.
Yes, that's what the French article says.
On the other hand, the journalist always writes "le joueur" and it really sounds like it is a male player (at the beginning of the article, when he is talking about the samples in general, he says "les joueurs et joueuses" = "male and female players", but when it comes to the doping case, he is just talking about "le joueur").

As for the "2nd week", it can mean both in French, Rosie is right.

The article is not very accurate, to say the least. You can't make any conclusions only on the basis of this article.

JMG
09-30-2005, 01:04 PM
I just hope it has nothing to do with Kiefer. He got a lot of medical treatments because of his neck in Roland Garros. And now he pulled out of Tokyo.

ys
09-30-2005, 01:15 PM
A couple of players do look like they are on anabolics this year..

Denaon
09-30-2005, 01:17 PM
I just cannot imagine how can anyone be so stupid and dope on the second week of a GS....this is ridiculous.

fabolous
09-30-2005, 01:27 PM
Should be Canas, if he was positive in Acapulco, there is a good chance he was still on treatment for the clay GS... he had a good run and had good stamina... plus he upset several French :mad:
no i think this is impossible, canas was tested negative at he french that's why he is allowed to keep his QF points from that tournament.

Cañas and two others - Guillermo Coria and Mariano Puerta - would risk a lifetime ban if convicted a second time of doping.
i just hope that neither puerta nor coria is so stupid to risk that.

Galaxystorm
09-30-2005, 01:28 PM
I just cannot imagine how can anyone be so stupid and dope on the second week of a GS....this is ridiculous.

A positive doesn't mean that the player took drugs the previous day . A lot of substances stay inside the body for several weeks and months.

*Ljubica*
09-30-2005, 01:31 PM
no i think this is impossible, canas was tested negative at he french that's why he is allowed to keep his QF points from that tournament.


i just hope that neither puerta nor coria is so stupid to risk that.

I said right at the beginning of this thread that we shouldn't be thinking about Coria and Puerta - as yet I have no reason to have changed my mind.

ys
09-30-2005, 01:31 PM
I just cannot imagine how can anyone be so stupid and dope on the second week of a GS....this is ridiculous.

They didn't dope there.. They doped to get there...

tennyfan
09-30-2005, 01:31 PM
I find it so hard to believe as much as these players are tested that any of them would take the risk of taking illegal substances. Unfortunately, there are so many medications (prescription and over the counter), vitamin supplements, even sports drinks that may have have been accidentally contaminated at the manufacturing level unbeknownst to the players who are taking them. A couple of years ago, I was the room mom for my son's 3rd grade class and every class party we had, the one mom would call me and remind me that her son was allergic to peanuts. No snack that was made with peanuts or even made in a factory that made other products with peanuts could be brought in because of accidental cross contamination. Sure enough, when I looked on the packages of desset type foods, many had warnings that even though that product did not contain peanuts that there may be small traces of peanuts found in it because the factory also produced other products that contained peanuts.

Chloe le Bopper
09-30-2005, 01:35 PM
Should be Canas, if he was positive in Acapulco, there is a good chance he was still on treatment for the clay GS... he had a good run and had good stamina... plus he upset several French :mad:

Well, I'm glad that we have yet another doctor in the house who knows what Canas was actually taking to go with his diuretics.

Chloe le Bopper
09-30-2005, 01:36 PM
Yes, just my opinion but the clues are here...
At this stage for him I think a 2 years ban or a life ban doesn't do much of adifference...
hope it's not Rog otherwise we are in deep shit !

Well, you would be for shooting your mouth off like an idiot.

TheMightyFed
09-30-2005, 01:42 PM
I find it so hard to believe as much as these players are tested that any of them would take the risk of taking illegal substances. Unfortunately, there are so many medications (prescription and over the counter), vitamin supplements, even sports drinks that may have have been accidentally contaminated at the manufacturing level unbeknownst to the players who are taking them. A couple of years ago, I was the room mom for my son's 3rd grade class and every class party we had, the one mom would call me and remind me that her son was allergic to peanuts. No snack that was made with peanuts or even made in a factory that made other products with peanuts could be brought in because of accidental cross contamination. Sure enough, when I looked on the packages of desset type foods, many had warnings that even though that product did not contain peanuts that there may be small traces of peanuts found in it because the factory also produced other products that contained peanuts.
I read that somewhere in a Wertheim article, give your sources mate...

TheMightyFed
09-30-2005, 01:43 PM
Well, you would be for shooting your mouth off like an idiot.
an idiot like you ? maybe...

TheMightyFed
09-30-2005, 01:46 PM
Well, I'm glad that we have yet another doctor in the house who knows what Canas was actually taking to go with his diuretics.
Can I say he's making fun of us when he says things like "I don't know who put that in my body, I'm so innocent, I will fight to prove I never took anythind, this is soooooooo unfair"... we know this song pretty well, we're not 6 y.o. kids, sorry. Remember Virenque ? and so many others. No empathy for guys who lie. If you dope at least tell it straight away ? Who was surprise dby this ? Nobody, the guy is running like a rabbit for hours...

tennyfan
09-30-2005, 01:49 PM
I read that somewhere in a Wertheim article, give your sources mate...

Sources for what, mate? I'm not familiar with Wertheim or his articles. The source in this case is my own experience.

TheMightyFed
09-30-2005, 01:55 PM
Sources for what, mate? I'm not familiar with Wertheim or his articles. The source in this case is my own experience.
Funny, look at that :

Quick story: A friend of my son's is 4 years old, and she has a wicked peanut allergy. Never mind her eating peanut products. If someone else has a PB&J and touches her skin, bad things happen. She's been made aware of this and knows never to eat anything before confirming it is free of peanuts. She knows to ask her teachers and relatives to read labels before she ingests anything. She knows to stay away from people she suspects have been hanging out with Mr. Salty. My point: If this 4-year-old girl is sufficiently aware to keep certain products out of her body, is it too much to expect athletes to do the same?

tennyfan
09-30-2005, 02:01 PM
Funny, look at that :

So I guess you are accusing me of lying about my own experience just because someone else had the same experience? For what purpose would I make up such a story? If I had already been aware of the article, I would have posted the quote from the article, not made up a story up on my own. :rolleyes: My point remains ... cross contamination is a possible explanation that is just as plausible as players being down right stupid and doping in the middle of a grand slam tournament.

TheMightyFed
09-30-2005, 02:07 PM
So I guess you are accusing me of lying about my own experience just because someone else had the same experience? For what purpose would I make up such a story? If I had already been aware of the article, I would have posted the quote from the article, not made up a story up on my own. :rolleyes: My point remains ... cross contamination is a possible explanation that is just as plausible as players being down right stupid and doping in the middle of a grand slam tournament.
cool down, I knew I've heard a peanut/doping analogy somewhere, just that Wertheim draws the opposite conclusion, that's all, I don't accuse you, recognize it's funny to have two similar stories like that...

Julio1974
09-30-2005, 02:18 PM
My point remains ... cross contamination is a possible explanation that is just as plausible as players being down right stupid and doping in the middle of a grand slam tournament.

The problem is that lack of intent or negligence does not preclude the punihsment. It's a strict liability offence. So, it does not matter whether the player intended to dope, or took a contaminated product. For instance, Coria was suspended even though the tribunal acknowledged he had taken every stepts to comply with the doping regulations.

Denaon
09-30-2005, 02:29 PM
A positive doesn't mean that the player took drugs the previous day . A lot of substances stay inside the body for several weeks and months.
I could be either one day or a few weeks before.
I mean, doping tests are usually (or duty to be) taken during 2nd week in any GS...does it make sense that any player that dopes (and certainly knows that it could come up after a few weeks later he did) could stay, play and take that huge risk....Does not make sense at all. That's why I said I cannot believe such stupidity...

gastonblack
09-30-2005, 02:31 PM
The problem is that lack of intent or negligence does not preclude the punihsment. It's a strict liability offence. So, it does not matter whether the player intended to dope, or took a contaminated product. For instance, Coria was suspended even though the tribunal acknowledged he had taken every stepts to comply with the doping regulations.

Totally agree.

Nathaliia
09-30-2005, 02:50 PM
but it isn't possible that the one was Chucho Acasuso, is it?

a Chuchoholic,
Nathaliia.

Denaon
09-30-2005, 02:54 PM
Nathaliia, apparentely it could be anyone (men) who reached 4th round :shrug:

TheMightyFed
09-30-2005, 02:54 PM
So I guess you are accusing me of lying about my own experience just because someone else had the same experience? For what purpose would I make up such a story? If I had already been aware of the article, I would have posted the quote from the article, not made up a story up on my own. :rolleyes: My point remains ... cross contamination is a possible explanation that is just as plausible as players being down right stupid and doping in the middle of a grand slam tournament.
tennyfan, don't bad rep me please, I only got confused with your peanut story and Wertheim similar peanut story ...... damn :mad:

Nathaliia
09-30-2005, 02:57 PM
Nathaliia, apparentely it could be anyone (men) who reached 4th round :shrug:
even though i tried to read the whole thread i did it briefly and didn't find out some essence perhaps that's why i asked.

anyone you say? it means Nadal as well :tape:?

my poor heart bleeds anytime whoever's caught on dope but if it was Chucho... :rolleyes:

Eléa
09-30-2005, 03:43 PM
my poor heart bleeds anytime whoever's caught on dope but if it was Chucho... :rolleyes:
Same for me... but for another man... obviously :rolleyes:

shotgun
09-30-2005, 03:54 PM
Hope it was Federer or Nadal. That would be funny. :devil: :lol:

Nah, that will never happen.

TheMightyFed
09-30-2005, 04:00 PM
They should give the names straight away... that might be unbearable for Argentine players who are clean (if some remain... :devil: ).
Why do they wait exactly ?

shotgun
09-30-2005, 04:11 PM
They should give the names straight away... that might be unbearable for Argentine players who are clean (if some remain... :devil: ).
Why do they wait exactly ?

Yeah, this is some kind of psychological torture. I mean, Puerta has just reached semifinals in Vietnam and has to worry about this now.

ys
09-30-2005, 04:23 PM
Yeah, this is some kind of psychological torture. I mean, Puerta has just reached semifinals in Vietnam and has to worry about this now.

Don't worry.. The name is not made public, but surely the cheater has been notified..

TheMightyFed
09-30-2005, 04:25 PM
Don't worry.. The name is not made public, but surely the cheater has been notified..
yep but the doubt is spread in the public about all Argentines of 2nd week, a bit like in the Kuznetzova case, where other players were cited while they were innocent, in the middle of the AO...

*Ljubica*
09-30-2005, 04:30 PM
They should give the names straight away... that might be unbearable for Argentine players who are clean (if some remain... :devil: ).
Why do they wait exactly ?

Because after the tests have come back positive - everything has to be sent off to some completely independant panel who seemingly take ages to give their "official" findings. Until that has been done - nothing can be made official although the players would have been notified . And how many times do I have to say....it is NOT Puerta :angel:

sigmagirl91
09-30-2005, 04:32 PM
Because after the tests have come back positive - everything has to be sent off to some completely independant panel who seemingly take ages to give their "official" findings. Until that has been done - nothing can be made official although the players would have been notified . And how many times do I have to say....it is NOT Puerta :angel:

Yes...this is done in case a false positive comes up. Imagine if the name of the player in question were to come out before the result is confirmed. That's why we're waiting on pins and needles.

TheMightyFed
09-30-2005, 04:36 PM
Yes...this is done in case a false positive comes up. Imagine if the name of the player in question were to come out before the result is confirmed. That's why we're waiting on pins and needles.
In l'Equipe they say that the 2nd test has been done to double-check, that's why I don't get the way the information is spread around... :rolleyes:

sigmagirl91
09-30-2005, 04:38 PM
In l'Equipe they say that the 2nd test has been done to double-check, that's why I don't get the way the information is spread around... :rolleyes:

But the "independent tribunal" hasn't returned its results as of yet...whether the initial positive test is confirmed or whether it's denied. That's why we wait.

TheMightyFed
09-30-2005, 04:43 PM
But the "independent tribunal" hasn't returned its results as of yet...whether the initial positive test is confirmed or whether it's denied. That's why we wait.
True I had never heard of this tribunal before...

michelleg
09-30-2005, 06:33 PM
Psssst.....a lesson for those who dont seem to understand the issue of cross contamination. Its not about what is ON the label, but what ISNT. (and in some cases, what is on the label but not in one's vocabulary)

Many producers of supplements produce for more than one distributor and run different types of product throughout the day or week. If the production machinery is not properly cleaned, cross-contamination can and will occur. That can not be avoided by simply looking at an ingredient label. In the US, many manufacturers that produce food products will put a warning label on products that have the CHANCE of cross contamination issues (esp. peanut allergy warnings) but have only reluctantly done so to prevent scurrilous litigation. Remember that the supplement industry is NOT regulated heavily - that there is NO legal requirement concerning purity/contamination disclosures for producers/distributors of these products.

Now deciphering chemicals/ingredient lists in other languages is another story. Deciphering those names in one's native language is one thing (did you know that imadiazolinyl urea is a derivative of formaldehyde, as is polyquaternium???? neither did I until I developed a life threatening formadehyde allergy) But for me to figure out what the hell that label says in French? Forget it.

So the simple solution would be for those overpaid suits at the ATP to take a pay cut and fund a traveling pharmacy/dispensary with ATP approved products as well as staff pharmacists that keep appropriate records. That levels the playing field for everyone....it would ease the paperwork nightmare (do players need to hire personal physicians, pharmacists, nutritionists, and an administrative staff in order to play tennis????) and stop all this over why one got what for failing to get an exemption for salbuterol use and another gets a harsher penalty for clembuterol use in the same situation.

<<Goes back to her glass of wine, its the weekend at last.>>

Lee
09-30-2005, 06:44 PM
I agree with what you said Michelle but I totally understand why ATP is not doing it.

If a player gets caught with banned substance and insists he only takes 'approved' supplements and claims those supplements are contanminated, ATP has the burden to prove otherwise.

And for those who have absolutely no idea about cross contamination, you are lucky that you or anyone close to you have no life threatening allergy.

NicoFan
09-30-2005, 06:55 PM
I agree with what you said Michelle but I totally understand why ATP is not doing it.

If a player gets caught with banned substance and insists he only takes 'approved' supplements and claims those supplements are contanminated, ATP has the burden to prove otherwise.

And for those who have absolutely no idea about cross contamination, you are lucky that you or anyone close to you have no life threatening allergy.

It should be the ATPs burden to prove otherwise...the player should be innocent until proven guilty.

Players careers are being ruined because the ATP has poor procedures. That's unacceptable.

I understand being tough on drugs...but this is a farce. Its not stopping steroid use when players are wrongly accused and condemned.

These over excessive punishments on supposed drug use in tennis is as bad as the over leniency in baseball.

michelleg
09-30-2005, 07:01 PM
They (ATP) are not doing what is logical, as that would make entirely too much sense and unfortunately, cost them some precious money. The ATP is full of bureaucratic politicos whose sole job function is to create unintelligible messes (that's called "job security" for those of you playing at home...)

And I'm not even going into the discussion of the presumption of innocence because I dont think there is a court anywhere where that exists!

<<realizes that its far too warm for shiraz today>>

Lee
09-30-2005, 07:06 PM
They (ATP) are not doing what is logical, as that would make entirely too much sense and unfortunately, cost them some precious money. The ATP is full of bureaucratic politicos whose sole job function is to create unintelligible messes (that's called "job security" for those of you playing at home...)

<<realizes that its far too warm for shiraz today>>

I agree with you here 100%, no buts. ;)

NicoFan
09-30-2005, 07:25 PM
They (ATP) are not doing what is logical, as that would make entirely too much sense and unfortunately, cost them some precious money. The ATP is full of bureaucratic politicos whose sole job function is to create unintelligible messes (that's called "job security" for those of you playing at home...)

And I'm not even going into the discussion of the presumption of innocence because I dont think there is a court anywhere where that exists!

<<realizes that its far too warm for shiraz today>>

Sadly, you're right on all points. :sad:

Unfortunately, can't do anything about the courts.

And doubt the ATP will ever change. That would require that those in tennis - players and bureaucrats alike - rethink their overall attitude towards the sport - we'll take our money and run, and not worry about the sport as a whole.

Baseline
09-30-2005, 10:10 PM
They should give the names straight away... that might be unbearable for Argentine players who are clean (if some remain... :devil: ).
Why do they wait exactly ?

I didn't understand this until very recently - the ATP's position is they do not have to produce the names of those who tested positive, only the names of those who tested positive, had a tribunal, and were found guilty by the triubunal. The names of many players who tested positive around Rusedski's positive were never released due to being let off by their tribunals.

That is why the composition of the tribunal is especially critical. I found it interesting when I read that Rusedski was able to choose one of his tribunal members himself. Is that the case for every player? Seems to me that the outcome can be almost predetermined by who the ATP chooses for the tribunal. This information is never released for players who tested positive, but were found innocent by the tribunal. That seems rather bizarre IMHO.

TheMightyFed
09-30-2005, 10:20 PM
That is why the composition of the tribunal is especially critical. I found it interesting when I read that Rusedski was able to choose one of his tribunal members himself.
I thought it was an "independant" tribunal. How the hell can Greg Rusedski chose his own judges ? :confused:

cecilija
09-30-2005, 11:02 PM
I read in a newspaper two argentines tested positive not just one in the french open :eek:
i read one of them is a very important player who was suspended before


i do not know if it s true or not

Denaon
09-30-2005, 11:06 PM
I read in a newspaper two argentines tested positive not just one in the french open :eek:
i read one of them is a very important player who was suspended before


i do not know if it s true or not
Which newspaper?

cecilija
09-30-2005, 11:13 PM
http://www.rionegro.com.ar/arch200509/30/adelantos/rr.php

a friend of mine translated it for me

Which newspaper?

Galaxystorm
09-30-2005, 11:39 PM
http://www.rionegro.com.ar/arch200509/30/adelantos/rr.php

a friend of mine translated it for me

Your friend is wrong .

The new says that it exists the possibility of two positives in Roland Garros, and not just one , and the new doesn't say the two players are argentines , only talks about a rumour of a top argentine player, but there's no information about the second possible positive

sigmagirl91
10-01-2005, 12:34 AM
Your friend is wrong .

The new says that it exists the possibility of two positives in Roland Garros, and not just one , and the new doesn't say the two players are argentines , only talks about a rumour of a top argentine player, but there's no information about the second possible positive

I read the same thing....more than one positive result, with one of them being Argentine.

Nathaliia
10-01-2005, 12:40 AM
I read the same thing....more than one positive result, with one of them being Argentine.
and the second being Nadal :tape:
ok i'm out to bed cause i'm talking stupid things like on a drunk.

sigmagirl91
10-01-2005, 02:03 AM
and the second being Nadal :tape:
ok i'm out to bed cause i'm talking stupid things like on a drunk.

You bad girl!!! ;)

sigmagirl91
10-01-2005, 02:06 AM
Your friend is wrong .

The new says that it exists the possibility of two positives in Roland Garros, and not just one , and the new doesn't say the two players are argentines , only talks about a rumour of a top argentine player, but there's no information about the second possible positive

And, if you read closely and thoroughly, you would find that the newspaper states incorrectly what "round" some of the competitors reached successfully. Coria, Gaudio, and Nalbandian didn't make it to the quarterfinals, which the article asserts and is trying to build a convincing argument with.

So it begs another question: if Coria, Gaudio, and Nalbandian did not make it to the quarters, then should they not be mentioned? Food for thought.

Grinder
10-01-2005, 02:46 AM
The only Argentine's that made the quarters were Puertá and Cañas.

Cañas is already suspended and Puertá has already been suspended previously.

CancionAnimal
10-01-2005, 02:58 AM
and safin ?????

sigmagirl91
10-01-2005, 03:06 AM
The only Argentine's that made the quarters were Puertá and Cañas.

Cañas is already suspended and Puertá has already been suspended previously.

And the article suggested that a "recidivist" (someone who does something habitually) could have been one of the accused. Go figure.

Action Jackson
10-01-2005, 05:39 AM
I thought it was an "independant" tribunal. How the hell can Greg Rusedski chose his own judges ? :confused:

I mean the ITF is the one who did the test for this one, whereas it was the ATP that tested Rusedski, that's the difference.

One thing you are right about is, how independent is independent in this case, that is why I am always going about the WADA doing these tests, then there can't be doubts about its independence.

michelleg
10-01-2005, 06:13 AM
and why the eff are you not on MSN you chicken?

come chat with a shiraz laden blonde, but given my latent recividity....maybe you should be scared! (please excuse grammar and vocab, its been a long long aussie red laden Friday/Saturday)

Chloe le Bopper
10-01-2005, 06:18 AM
GWH uses MSN? I'm hurt.

silverwhite
10-01-2005, 07:25 AM
GWH uses MSN? :eek: I wonder how he avoids using smilies on MSN. :p

Action Jackson
10-01-2005, 07:40 AM
GWH uses MSN? :eek: I wonder how he avoids using smilies on MSN. :p

Just like Gaudio avoids playing on grass, due to an allergy.

silverwhite
10-01-2005, 07:53 AM
I see. :lol:

You must have ignored your allergy though, GWH, those few times you used a smiley on MTF. ;)

Chloe le Bopper
10-01-2005, 08:01 AM
I bet that GWH avoids MSN because he knows that he wouldn't be able to resist the winks, and that would just cramps his style.

Galaxystorm
10-01-2005, 12:50 PM
And, if you read closely and thoroughly, you would find that the newspaper states incorrectly what "round" some of the competitors reached successfully. Coria, Gaudio, and Nalbandian didn't make it to the quarterfinals, which the article asserts and is trying to build a convincing argument with.

So it begs another question: if Coria, Gaudio, and Nalbandian did not make it to the quarters, then should they not be mentioned? Food for thought.

You also read badly . The newspaper doesn't say anything about QF, just talks about the second week quoting L'Equipe

*Ljubica*
10-01-2005, 01:11 PM
You also read badly . The newspaper doesn't say anything about QF, just talks about the second week quoting L'Equipe

As far as I was aware (having read the article in both the French and English versions), - the case involves someone who reached at least the round of 16 - this anyone playing on the middle Sunday or after.

michelleg
10-01-2005, 02:59 PM
I bet that GWH avoids MSN because he knows that he wouldn't be able to resist the winks, and that would just cramps his style.

Well he doesn't send me any of those oh-so-clever winks, but I do get all tingly inside when he gives me a nudge, you know. I live for those moments.

silverwhite
10-01-2005, 03:05 PM
GWH giving nudges? Surely not? :eek:

Truc
10-01-2005, 05:10 PM
http://sport.guardian.co.uk/tennis/story/0,10069,1582450,00.html:
"A spokesman for the International Tennis Federation (ITF) said it would not comment on a potential case until the process was concluded, which is unlikely to be before December, unless the player involved goes public."

If we have to wait until December, it will be simply unbearable for all the Argentine players who have nothing to do with this whole story (just look at the reactions after Puerta's loss today).

What about the former doping cases? I know Rusedski and Cañas went public, but are there examples of rumours like this one lasting many months?
Or is the pressure so big that the suspected player always goes public after a while?

*Ljubica*
10-01-2005, 05:16 PM
http://sport.guardian.co.uk/tennis/story/0,10069,1582450,00.html:
"A spokesman for the International Tennis Federation (ITF) said it would not comment on a potential case until the process was concluded, which is unlikely to be before December, unless the player involved goes public."

If we have to wait until December, it will be simply unbearable for all the Argentine players who have nothing to do with this whole story (just look at the reactions after Puerta's loss today).

What about the former doping cases? I know Rusedski and Cañas went public, but are there examples of rumours like this one lasting many months?
Or is the pressure so big that the suspected player always goes public after a while?


Rusedski went public after about 2 weeks I think - and - yes - there was intense speculation in the British Press prior to his announcement. As I remember (and I may be wrong here as I'm not a particular fan of his) - he also withdrew from several tournaments around that time (as did Cañas), because the pressure was too great for him to concentrate well enough to give his best on the court.

basil333
10-01-2005, 05:30 PM
Gaudio and Nalbandian have both been interviewed saying this is the first they've heard of this... so that eliminates them.... I really do not think this time its an Argentine - and I hope I am right... and I hope the Person involved if he is NOT Argentine gets the full "internet treatment" he deserves and does not get brushed under the carpet.

All the speculation that I have read (in about 5 different languages) all say that it was a Player, and that the ATP will be putting the player againts a Panel of three people. The fact that the ATP are involved eliminates all WTA players... and then the article cleverly counts up the number of Argentine players left in the tournament at that time. It is not the fault of Argentina that they have lots of great tennis players! - so... the net is closing in...

I can count too...

The Journalist should have also counted up the numbers of other Nationalities left in the Tournaments at that time.

Clever Journalist! - I wonder how much he got paid for his article to open up this worm can.

Someone will leak... its only a matter of time.

amierin
10-01-2005, 05:35 PM
Someone will leak... its only a matter of time.

The leak will come because the speculation will get out of control.

sigmagirl91
10-01-2005, 05:35 PM
Gaudio and Nalbandian have both been interviewed saying this is the first they've heard of this... so that eliminates them.... I really do not think this time its an Argentine - and I hope I am right... and I hope the Person involved if he is NOT Argentine gets the full "internet treatment" he deserves and does not get brushed under the carpet.

All the speculation that I have read (in about 5 different languages) all say that it was a Player, and that the ATP will be putting the player againts a Panel of three people. The fact that the ATP are involved eliminates all WTA players... and then the article cleverly counts up the number of Argentine players left in the tournament at that time. It is not the fault of Argentina that they have lots of great tennis players! - so... the net is closing in...

I can count too...

The Journalist should have also counted up the numbers of other Nationalities left in the Tournaments at that time.

Clever Journalist! - I wonder how much he got paid for his article to open up this worm can.

Someone will leak... its only a matter of time.

For what it's worth, I don't think it's an Argentine, either (hope not, anyway). This reporter performed the "calculations" as it were, and concluded that an Argentine is involved somewhere.

*Ljubica*
10-01-2005, 05:45 PM
Have to say I think it IS an Argentine :sad: And you know how much I love the Argentine players etc so that is not so easy for me to say - but just a "gut" feeling that I have. And as for Coria and Nalbandian saying they knew nothing - well - with respect - they're hardly going to admit something like that publically in an ordinary newspaper or TV interview without contacting their lawyers first are they? I am sure time will tell!!

Truc
10-01-2005, 05:50 PM
For what it's worth, I don't think it's an Argentine, either (hope not, anyway). This reporter performed the "calculations" as it were, and concluded that an Argentine is involved somewhere.
The journalist in "L'Équipe" only refers to the recent rumours in Argentine to justify his "argentine clue".
Then he says: but there were so many Argentinians in the 4th round, even with this indication, we still have no idea who it is.
He doesn't say it was an Argentinian because there were so many Argentine players in the 4th round.

Thanks for the answers to my question.
I feel so bad for all the other innocent top players who are under suspicion right now, they will be mad at the player who was tested positive if he doesn't go public.

sigmagirl91
10-01-2005, 05:53 PM
The journalist in "L'Équipe" only refers to the recent rumours in Argentine to justify his "argentine clue".
Then he says: but there were so many Argentinians in the 4th round, even with this indication, we still have no idea who it is.
He doesn't say it was an Argentinian because there were so many Argentine players in the 4th round.

Thanks for the answers to my question.
I feel so bad for all the other innocent top players who are under suspicion right now, they will be mad at the player who was tested positive if he doesn't go public.

The pressure will mount as the suspicion grows, you can be sure of that.

Effka
10-01-2005, 06:26 PM
I just hope it's not my Chucho.
But if it is him,then i'll throw some potatoes at him even if that's gonna include buying ticket to Buenos.
I have strange feeling about this :sad:

*Ljubica*
10-01-2005, 06:30 PM
I just hope it's not my Chucho.
But if it is him,then i'll throw some potatoes at him even if that's gonna include buying ticket to Buenos.
I have strange feeling about this :sad:

Why potatoes :confused:

Effka
10-01-2005, 06:35 PM
Why potatoes :confused:

Haha, i don't know, i just like to say that i'll throw some potatos (or tomatoes) at someone who misbehaved. I usually say about tomatoes, but this case is kinda serious, so (if it is him - please, no!) i'm gonna use something heavier :devil:

Nathaliia
10-01-2005, 06:49 PM
I just hope it's not my Chucho.
But if it is him,then i'll throw some potatoes at him even if that's gonna include buying ticket to Buenos.
I have strange feeling about this :sad:
of course they are both Chucho and JMDP. if they ever dare to come to Sopot, we'll prepare a banner "YOU BAD - YOU'RE DEAD" ;)

I know the journalists must live out of something but it was among the good behaviour and some normal human ethic to warm everybody up when the decision has to be announced in December...
now, everyone can feel suspected.

PaulieM
10-01-2005, 07:11 PM
i just read an article about this, and it was the first i'd read about it outside mtf because frankly i haven't been paying that much attention to the whole thing. after reading it though i can understand why fans of many argentine players get annoy with that press and that some argentine players feel like they are being targeted. in this article they went straight from talking about the fact that there was a potential case with some who reached the last 16 to straight away naming argentine players that have been caught in the next sentence, basically assuming that this case was surely an argentine. if they were trying to be objective it would have made much more sense to name players in general who made it to that round, and then if they wanted to mention past cases with argentines rather than to single them out straight away inviting the assumption that this too was an argentine. in fact i don't think they even specifically named any players who made it that far that weren't argentines, which is very unfair :(

Vale
10-01-2005, 08:38 PM
There´s an article in the Argentine SportsYa (not always trustworthy) that explains how L´Équipe got its information.

It says that the origin of the article was in Buenos Aires. That all the Argentine journalists knew about the supposed doping but that they had a "silence agreement" between them in order to preserve all the innocent players until the news was official, and thus to avoid a campaign of rumours.
However, one of the journalists broke that pact and let the cat out of the bag talking to L´Équipe´s correspondent in BA, who promptly informed his head office and they made the news public.

For any of you who understand Spanish, here is the article:

http://www.sportsya.com/welcome/noticias.php?
id_not=68455&id_estruc=54

La versión del doping nació en Argentina


Se rompió el "pacto de silencio". (EFE)


01-10 | 12:48 hs. - El rumor sobre el control positivo de un tenista
en Roland Garros surgió de un periodista argentino, que se lo
comentó a un corresponsal del diaro "L´Equipe" en Buenos Aires.

Sin dudas, la noticia publicada en el portal del periódico francés
llevó inmediata repercusión para todos los medios del mundo, pero
más que nada repercutió muy fuerte en la Argentina ya que la nota
expresaba claramente la existencia de una "pista" de un jugador del
país.

No obstante, lo que primeramente había salido a la luz como una
investigación del propio matutino galo, este sábado se reveló que la
verdadera fuente de información partió de un colega argentino, quien
rompió una especie de pacto de silencio entre varios profesionales
especializados que salvaguardaban la información hasta que se diera
a conocer de manera oficial por la ATP.

Éste "secreto" más que nada había sido con el fin de preservar
cualquier revuelo periodístico -que finalmente se generó- y evitar
la incomodidad o una "marea" de rumores, que vincularan a cualquier
tenista argentino.

Sin embargo, al llegarle esta versión, el comunicador social no
tardó en trasladarlo a las oficinas del matutino en Francia y
obviamente su publicación puso en vilo la tranquilidad de más de uno
de los deportistas que compitió en el Abierto de Francia.

Más específicamente, en la segunda semana, ya que otro de los puntos
que se destacó en la nota fue que el supuesto infractor podría haber
participado en los octavos del cuadro de singles o en los cuartos
del dobles.

En referencia a la cantidad de jugadores argentinos vinculdos, la
información de "L´Equipe" expresa que "catorce elementos resultantes
estaban presentes en todos los niveles de la competición" -durante
esos últimos cinco días-, ya sea profesional, seniors o juniors.

Igualmente, con el correr de las horas, los rumores se hicieron cada
vez más fuertes y recalaron en que el tenista no sólo sería hombre,
sino que pertenecería al primero de estos niveles.

kalle
10-01-2005, 08:40 PM
i think mariano puerta

*Ljubica*
10-01-2005, 08:43 PM
Thanks for the article Vale.

victoria_maraude
10-01-2005, 08:43 PM
Coria was asked about it at Espn Latinoamerica. Here's what he said:

BUENOS AIRES (EFE)-El tenista argentino Guillermo Coria aseguró el sábado en relación con la noticia publicada por el diario francés L'Equipe sobre un posible positivo por dopaje de un jugador argentino en la última edición del torneo de Roland Garros, que ojalá sólo sea un rumor, y "que no sea verdad".
"Es muy feo escribir algo así si no se está seguro porque se estaría ensuciando, no sólo a un jugador sino también a un país", puntualizó el tenista, quien fue eliminado en octavos de final en la última edición de Roland Garros.

Dijo, además, que está "feliz" de que le hagan controles antidopaje porque "si uno no está sucio, si no tiene nada que ocultar, no debe tener ningún problema en que le hagan el control".

cecilija
10-01-2005, 09:14 PM
I think the "x" player could be Nikolay Davydenko

*Ljubica*
10-01-2005, 09:16 PM
I think no one should be naming names at all without firm proof - it's libel for a start.

cecilija
10-01-2005, 09:18 PM
A russian friend of mine who works in atp told me that secret

Chloe le Bopper
10-01-2005, 09:19 PM
Well he doesn't send me any of those oh-so-clever winks, but I do get all tingly inside when he gives me a nudge, you know. I live for those moments.
:haha:

Saumon
10-01-2005, 09:19 PM
A russian friend of mine who works in atp told me that secret
Marat is really bored these days... :rolleyes:

Chloe le Bopper
10-01-2005, 09:23 PM
Marat is really bored these days... :rolleyes:
:haha:

Ah, that was good.

Chloe le Bopper
10-01-2005, 09:24 PM
I think no one should be naming names at all without firm proof - it's libel for a start.
Indeed, but that won't stop people from being asshats and naming players they just don't like.

As I always do when people name Puerta, I wonder how many people who slander him have actually bothered to read tidbits from his original fucking case?

People are so ignorant.

Saumon
10-01-2005, 09:24 PM
:haha:

Ah, that was good.
:hug:

cecilija
10-01-2005, 09:29 PM
I like Kolya very much, just i am saying what my freind said me
he did not say it is sure kolya is the doped player but he is a strong posibility

Saumon
10-01-2005, 09:32 PM
I like Kolya very much, just i am saying what my freind said me
he did not say it is sure kolya is the doped player but he is a strong posibility
what's his job at the atp? :scratch: