Britain set to tank DC rubbers against Federer. Wise or Tragic? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Britain set to tank DC rubbers against Federer. Wise or Tragic?

adee-gee
09-22-2005, 05:15 PM
Captain Jeremy Bates has sprung a surprise, opting to rest Greg Rusedski for the 1st days play of the Davis Cup against Switzerland (he would've been set to play Federer). Instead world number 262, Alex Mackin (yet to win an ATP match) will play. Bates said, "Obviously playing Roger is a very tough match and realistically we are looking at winning the doubles and the two singles against their number two."

From where I'm standing it basically looks like we're tanking the match against Federer. It might be a good idea in the sense that Rusedski has very little chance of beating Federer, and it keeps him fresh for the doubles and a possibly crucial 3rd day rubber against Wawrinkwa. But a part of me is saying that stranger things have happened than Rusedski beating Federer on clay, and its disappointing that there is no belief from within that he can win. I know the chances of Rusedski winning are very slim, but even if they stuck me out there I'd believe I had a chance, whatever happened to good old British optimism :confused:

PaulieM
09-22-2005, 05:21 PM
I know the chances of Rusedski winning are very slim, but even if they stuck me out there I'd believe I had a chance, whatever happened to good old British optimism :confused:
honey, that's called being delusional :kiss:

alfonsojose
09-22-2005, 05:33 PM
JesusFed looks so tense in DC pics. And all the team look like his puppets. I think they'll win but any trick Britain can use is :yeah:

R.Federer
09-22-2005, 05:34 PM
It is the less risky strategy. Generously to UK, it is 90% certain that Roge win both his singles (less generously,it is 98%). If they put their best player first and he loses, it starts the UK on a bad note: their best is not good enough, what will happen to rest? It will only give negative energy to the team to put their best guy out first.

Also it is simple for you on the sideline, as a fan, with no consequences, to suggest that there are strange possibilite like Rusedski to beat Roge, on clay. But for the captain, who is going to get the criticism of bad choices, such strange, very unlikely and high risk possibilite cannot be an option

TheMightyFed
09-22-2005, 05:36 PM
Captain Jeremy Bates has sprung a surprise, opting to rest Greg Rusedski for the 1st days play of the Davis Cup against Switzerland (he would've been set to play Federer). Instead world number 262, Alex Mackin (yet to win an ATP match) will play. Bates said, "Obviously playing Roger is a very tough match and realistically we are looking at winning the doubles and the two singles against their number two."

From where I'm standing it basically looks like we're tanking the match against Federer. It might be a good idea in the sense that Rusedski has very little chance of beating Federer, and it keeps him fresh for the doubles and a possibly crucial 3rd day rubber against Wawrinkwa. But a part of me is saying that stranger things have happened than Rusedski beating Federer on clay, and its disappointing that there is no belief from within that he can win. I know the chances of Rusedski winning are very slim, but even if they stuck me out there I'd believe I had a chance, whatever happened to good old British optimism :confused:
You're partly right, one has to believe in the nature of DC and its multiple surprises. In the same time, with Federer, there is not much of a surprise. So with him around you'd better be smart, because it's reallistic to think that Rusedski has no chance on clay against Fed, with his serve neutralized and the pretty good record of Fed on clay lately...

adee-gee
09-22-2005, 05:38 PM
It is the less risky strategy. Generously to UK, it is 90% certain that Roge win both his singles (less generously,it is 98%). If they put their best player first and he loses, it starts the UK on a bad note: their best is not good enough, what will happen to rest? It will only give negative energy to the team to put their best guy out first.

Also it is simple for you on the sideline, as a fan, with no consequences, to suggest that there are strange possibilite like Rusedski to beat Roge, on clay. But for the captain, who is going to get the criticism of bad choices, such strange, very unlikely and high risk possibilite cannot be an option

Everyone would expect Rusedski to lose to Federer so it wouldn't put the team on a downer I don't think. Murray is a better clay court player than Greg anyway.

I also don't think anyone would've criticised Bates for playing Rusedski, that was the expected move. He's more likely to get criticised if Mackin gets an absolute hammering and completely ruins his confidence.

rofe
09-22-2005, 05:44 PM
Everyone would expect Rusedski to lose to Federer so it wouldn't put the team on a downer I don't think. Murray is a better clay court player than Greg anyway.

I also don't think anyone would've criticised Bates for playing Rusedski, that was the expected move. He's more likely to get criticised if Mackin gets an absolute hammering and completely ruins his confidence.

Mackin will not get bagelled or breaksticked by Fed unless Mackin plays a rotten game.

I actually agree with Bates' strategy given his options.

jtipson
09-22-2005, 05:49 PM
Everyone would expect Rusedski to lose to Federer so it wouldn't put the team on a downer I don't think. Murray is a better clay court player than Greg anyway.

I also don't think anyone would've criticised Bates for playing Rusedski, that was the expected move. He's more likely to get criticised if Mackin gets an absolute hammering and completely ruins his confidence.

Yes, but if Rusedski is expected to lose anyway, why make him exert himself when he is likely to play a critical role later in the tie? Mackin, on the other hand, can be allowed to wear himself out, as he is unlikely to play Sunday in a live fifth rubber.

adee-gee
09-22-2005, 06:01 PM
Yes, but if Rusedski is expected to lose anyway, why make him exert himself when he is likely to play a critical role later in the tie? Mackin, on the other hand, can be allowed to wear himself out, as he is unlikely to play Sunday in a live fifth rubber.

Because Rusedski has a tiny bit more of a chance of beating Federer than Mackin does. I'm kind of playing devils advocate here, I mainly agree with Bates' decision I just think its kind of sad that Britain have got to the stage of taking a match as lost before it has even started.

Skyward
09-22-2005, 06:20 PM
Certainly more tragic events had happened on this earth.

TheBoiledEgg
09-22-2005, 06:22 PM
they switched it around cos Greg would have played Wawrinka on day 1 and Murray played Fed on 1st day, meaning being 0-2 down and going out.

way i see it...... even the Swiss DC capt would probably beat Mackin in his sleep.
Murray vs Wawrinka will decide the outcome of tie.

if its 1-1 at day 1, then a chance, a slight one
doubles is then crucial.

switch is cos they didnt want Murray to play Federer on opening day rather than rest Greg.

TheBoiledEgg
09-22-2005, 06:24 PM
Because Rusedski has a tiny bit more of a chance of beating Federer than Mackin does. I'm kind of playing devils advocate here,

is that with Mirka on top of Fed or underneath him :lol:

Greg beat Fed on clay :rolls:

its.like.that
09-22-2005, 06:28 PM
Britain is good.

Galaxystorm
09-22-2005, 06:35 PM
I think it's a decision thinking in the future when Rusedksi retires , then Mackin needs to catch some experience :lol:

Mackin is the future man :haha:

Talking serously in my opinion Great Britan's attitude is quite loser and submissive so i guess the next new will be GB's captain kissing Roger's ass

kundalini
09-22-2005, 06:44 PM
I think it is quite imaginative really.

Probably won't work but all the same it is an intelligent use of limited resources.

Murray might just be able to beat Wawrinka. Britain might just win the doubles. And then Wawrinka could be set to play a relatively fresh Rusedski.

More likely scenario - Andy loses to Wawrinka who is a decent clay court player, and the tie is over.

Corey Feldman
09-22-2005, 07:48 PM
Mackin, Alan

Birthplace:Paisley, Scotland
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Corey Feldman
09-22-2005, 07:50 PM
2 scots and 1 canadian take on Switzerland here ;)

gooner88
09-22-2005, 08:07 PM
I would've fancied our chances against the Swiss alot more if a FIT Henman was in the side.
I like Bates creativeness in his picks. However at the same time it's sad that Team GB have got to this stage where some players and coaches have this negative mindset where you've lost before a ball has even been hit in anger; even if the player concerned is the world's best.

Corey Feldman
09-22-2005, 08:23 PM
yeah, but i can see Bates point...
basically no player on the team would beat Federer anyway

Scotso
09-22-2005, 08:34 PM
Will they be fined for lack of effort?

Robxon
09-22-2005, 10:31 PM
I really don't understand what is negative about Bates choice. He is positively choosing the timing of the most critical rubber. Getting Murray to play Wawrinka when he is fresh rather than after two days play, especially when Wawrenka would have Saturday off, makes sense.

Murray may be a talent but if the tie was to depend on the last rubber, I would prefer that Greg played it. Greg is fresh for the doubles and does not have to recover after a potentially long match.

Andy will still have a shot against Fed, unless the tie is already over.

How many times in his career will Alan Mackin have to take on the world no. 1. As has been made patently obvious here, nobody expects him to win, so no pressure. Also remember his DC debut against Australia, in a even more highly charged atmosphere.

It's easy to knock but here is a strategy which maximises the opportunity of winning the tie. I think it is an inspired selection.

All they need to do now, is execute the plan!!!

LaTenista
09-22-2005, 10:46 PM
I think it's brilliant. Mackin is an unknown who's never played Fed - there's a chance Rog will take awhile to figure out his opponent's game. What has Britain got to lose? Worst-case scenario they lose the tie and stay in Europe/Africa Zone 1 group.

The key for Britain to pull off the tie is to win both the Wawrinka rubbers and pray the doubles go well (Fed can lose in doubles).

Too bad there won't be any coverage of this. Could be very interesting.

bad gambler
09-22-2005, 10:51 PM
whatever happened to good old British optimism :confused:


never knew it existed :p

Sjengster
09-22-2005, 10:53 PM
A completely misleading title, just because the team don't expect to win the rubbers against Federer doesn't mean they're not going to try. Anyone would think that Mackin's just going to stand there and let Federer ace him, and not bother running after his shots. If Federer does win them both comfortably it's because he was too good, not because Mackin or Murray decided to tank 'em away.

Sjengster
09-23-2005, 12:57 AM
Bates' "tanking" strategy explained in detail: http://sport.scotsman.com/tennis.cfm?id=1980412005

NYCtennisfan
09-23-2005, 02:46 AM
This is a good strategy. There is no way that Rusedski would beat Federer on clay unless Federer was playing with a baby wooden racquet and even then I doubt it.

NYCtennisfan
09-23-2005, 02:50 AM
I think it's brilliant. Mackin is an unknown who's never played Fed - there's a chance Rog will take awhile to figure out his opponent's game

Probaby 30 seconds is all he will need. :)

A completely misleading title, just because the team don't expect to win the rubbers against Federer doesn't mean they're not going to try.

Sjengster, I don't think Adegee means that some unsung lower tier player will tank out there on purpose, but rather that the UK will concede a first match victory for Fed win because it will not matter who they throw out there against him. They are not really trying to win that first match because they don't believe that they can. Better to have a rested Rusedski for later on if it still matters.

Corey Feldman
09-23-2005, 02:57 AM
Probaby 30 seconds is all he will need. :)

:lol:

NYCtennisfan
09-23-2005, 03:10 AM
^HOw's it going vcash king? :)

Corey Feldman
09-23-2005, 03:16 AM
Great, with my 68 cents :ras:

NYCtennisfan
09-23-2005, 03:19 AM
Great, with my 68 cents

LOL! Nobody is going to be carrying around a 2-3 million V$ amount again. The people at the top now bet v$1000 on Rafa against Justin Gimelstob. Where's the fun in that? You were betting on even money matches all throught the summer.

KoOlMaNsEaN
09-23-2005, 03:49 AM
I think it's a good idea....