Nadal def Coria 5-7 6-1 6-2 to win the Chinese Clay Champs in Beijing [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Nadal def Coria 5-7 6-1 6-2 to win the Chinese Clay Champs in Beijing

fabolous
09-18-2005, 02:07 PM
Nadal wins his 10th tourny of the year :eek: :yeah:

but also props to guille, a final appereance is a good result for him here.

Action Jackson
09-18-2005, 02:08 PM
Congrats to Rafa for winning his 10th title of the year and also to Coria for winning some tough matches, now good luck to both of these players in their upcoming Davis Cup ties.

adelaide
09-18-2005, 02:08 PM
whoa you're quick.

well done Rafael, congrats :D :D :D

Grinder
09-18-2005, 02:09 PM
Vamos Chinese clay

fabolous
09-18-2005, 02:11 PM
outposted by george :p

nadal is 3-0 in finals against guille this year.

Raul-Lopez
09-18-2005, 02:11 PM
Nadalllllllll

VingaRafel
09-18-2005, 02:12 PM
My boy just keeps on going... and going....

Contratulations Rafel !!

Jogg
09-18-2005, 02:12 PM
well done Rafa :banana:

Action Jackson
09-18-2005, 02:13 PM
outposted by george :p

nadal is 3-0 in finals against guille this year.

There are some good signs for Guille though, he made the final here and it's not like he is getting caned like Ferrero is all the time, he can win sets.

Hope Coria can adjust quickly to the ice rink in Bratislava.

Vamos Chinese Clay.

Exodus
09-18-2005, 02:13 PM
Once again Nadal proved too strong for Coria. Coria won't ever win the FO for sure

daze11
09-18-2005, 02:13 PM
was coria's leg injury a factor? it looks like the first set was normal and then something had to happen to bring coria's level way down...rafa's a great player but he cant beat coria by anything like those scores. Not even federer has ever come close to those scores with Guille. If Coria wasnt injured, I will have a whole new respect for rafa.

bad gambler
09-18-2005, 02:14 PM
congrats rafaellllllllllllllll

Castafiore
09-18-2005, 02:14 PM
Well done, Rafa. The Chinese clay is yours!

I must admit that I didn't have much faith after that first set. Indeed, props to Coria for that one but what a strong come back from Nadal!

jenanun
09-18-2005, 02:15 PM
WELL DONE RAFA!!!! YEAH!

Action Jackson
09-18-2005, 02:16 PM
Well done, Rafa. The Chinese clay is yours!

I must admit that I didn't have much faith after that first set. Indeed, props to Coria for that one but what a strong come back from Nadal!

Come on Nadal has some of the biggest cojones on tour when it comes to fighting out matches, losing the 1st set is no reason to panic.

I didn't see the match, what was the standard like?

mangoes
09-18-2005, 02:17 PM
Congrats Rafa...................I guess I'll see the match later on The Tennis Channel.

tennyfan
09-18-2005, 02:17 PM
Congrats Rafa. Sounds like he wasn't playing his best but found a way to win.

I don't even want to think about Guille's leg being injured with DC in less than a week! Big dilema for Mancini even if it's just fatigue. Does he play Puerta or Gaudio in singles on Friday and then save Guille for Sunday? Or does it have to be reverse singles? I'm not up on my Davis Cup rules.

topspin_baby
09-18-2005, 02:18 PM
stupid question....why call it chinese clay? wasn't the china open a hard court event...?? :confused: :sad:

daze11
09-18-2005, 02:19 PM
Well done, Rafa. The Chinese clay is yours!

I must admit that I didn't have much faith after that first set. Indeed, props to Coria for that one but what a strong come back from Nadal!ok, it sounds like coria kicked customary ass and then the injury that caused him almost not to play the final popped up to allow nadal to look good. but they air it here in a few hours so i will see. If Nadal really justraised his level that much, again, :worship: to Nadal. but i doubt it.

mangoes
09-18-2005, 02:19 PM
stupid question....why call it chinese clay? wasn't the china open a hard court event...?? :confused: :sad:


Yes

Alvarillo
09-18-2005, 02:20 PM
:worship: Rafa :worship:
Coria :p

Action Jackson
09-18-2005, 02:21 PM
stupid question....why call it chinese clay? wasn't the china open a hard court event...?? :confused: :sad:

No, it's a fair question.

It in theory was a hardcourt event, but basically it's a dig at people who are still wanting Nadal to think that Nadal can only play well on clay. When he made the final in Miami, it was at the time called "the new clay" and it goes from there.

JeNn
09-18-2005, 02:23 PM
No, it's a fair question.

It in theory was a hardcourt event, but basically it's a dig at people who are still wanting Nadal to think that Nadal can only play well on clay. When he made the final in Miami, it was at the time called "the new clay" and it goes from there.

Don't be stupid. The whole season is basically clay now. He is just fortunate that he came along at a time like this when all the fast court tourneys are disappearing. His Capri pants are embarrassing too. Also he is on Roids.

topspin_baby
09-18-2005, 02:24 PM
No, it's a fair question.

It in theory was a hardcourt event, but basically it's a dig at people who are still wanting Nadal to think that Nadal can only play well on clay. When he made the final in Miami, it was at the time called "the new clay" and it goes from there.


got it thanks, that's unfair, doesn't give credit where it is due..well from how i view it. again thanks for the answer.

thank you also to Mangoes

nobama
09-18-2005, 02:24 PM
No, it's a fair question.

It in theory was a hardcourt event, but basically it's a dig at people who are still wanting Nadal to think that Nadal can only play well on clay. When he made the final in Miami, it was at the time called "the new clay" and it goes from there.I think you're one of the few that are still obssessed with that - or at least that Rafa supposedly not getting his proper due outside of the dirt....which is a bunch of bs.

I would be curious to know what the heck happened to Coria in those last two sets to just fade away like that.

Cris
09-18-2005, 02:24 PM
Bravo Rafael! :worship:

Leo
09-18-2005, 02:25 PM
No, it's a fair question.

It in theory was a hardcourt event, but basically it's a dig at people who are still wanting Nadal to think that Nadal can only play well on clay. When he made the final in Miami, it was at the time called "the new clay" and it goes from there.

Yes, a Spaniard and an Argentine making the finals of an event... no doubt in my mind that it's clay. Johansson was robbed; he would have killed the field if this was on a proper surface.

Action Jackson
09-18-2005, 02:26 PM
Don't be stupid. The whole season is basically clay now. He is just fortunate that he came along at a time like this when all the fast court tourneys are disappearing. His Capri pants are embarrassing too. Also he is on Roids.

That would almost be scary, if you were serious.

mangoes
09-18-2005, 02:26 PM
I think you're one of the few that are still obssessed with that - or at least Rafa supposedly not getting his proper due outside of the dirt.

I would be curious to know what the heck happened to Coria in those last two sets to just fade away like that.


I'm curious too, but we will see in a couple of hours. I looking forward to seeing this match.

Exodus
09-18-2005, 02:26 PM
Don't be stupid. The whole season is basically clay now. He is just fortunate that he came along at a time like this when all the fast court tourneys are disappearing. His Capri pants are embarrassing too. Also he is on Roids.


What are you talking about? anyway Coria sucks he don't stand a chance against the big guns anymore

mallorn
09-18-2005, 02:27 PM
Come on Nadal has some of the biggest cojones on tour when it comes to fighting out matches, losing the 1st set is no reason to panic.

I didn't see the match, what was the standard like?

Wasn't the best tennis ever, the end of first set was kind of nervous from both and very uncharacteristic from Nadal. Then Rafa ran away with the next two. Didn't see any sign of injury from Coria though, he was running great and his dropshot worked beautifully. He took many chances and made many errors (twice the number of Nadal's according to the stats).

mangoes
09-18-2005, 02:27 PM
Yes, a Spaniard and an Argentine making the finals of an event... no doubt in my mind that it's clay. Johansson was robbed; he would have killed the field if this was on a proper surface.


TOJO would have been in the finals if he hadn't done a really bad CHOKE JOB.

Castafiore
09-18-2005, 02:27 PM
What was the standard like?

First set: Coria was really playing very well. Good variety, nice shots.
Nadal - was not focussed and he kept on making silly mistakes. To be fair: some of those mistakes were really due to Coria's excellent game but others were due to a lack of focus. Nadal was very nervous in that first set, so it seems. Nadal broke Coria in this set but that was due to Coria making silly mistakes this time and not so much with Rafa playing well. He was nervous as well.

Second set: Nadal went into this set with an "OK, I have got nothing to lose here...let's go" attitude. The fighter in him broke out.
Coria's level dropped a bit while Nadal's picked up his game. Starting being more agressive, using that strong forehand of his. You could see Nadal's confidence growing by the minute.
Nadal attacked Coria's FH more, I think.

Third set: Nadal with high confidence now, selecting his shots better, more aggression and less mistakes.
Like the commentators in Eurosport said: "this is much more like the young talent that we saw rise to the number two in rank. He's starting to boss Coria on the court" + "Coria is giving it away mentally. He's going for too many trick shots and Nadal is making him pay for it".

To be fair: I heard that Coria had a bit of trouble with his shoulder (not sure about this) and maybe that's why his forehand was attackable

Leo
09-18-2005, 02:28 PM
I would be curious to know what the heck happened to Coria in those last two sets to just fade away like that.

It's not that surprising given some of his erratic matches this season, especially recently on hard courts. And while he can dig out of it most of the time and still win (look at his run to the US Open quarters playing fairly awful tennis by his standards), Nadal is too confident and that kind of play was never going to get it done today.

LaTenista
09-18-2005, 02:29 PM
Is this a foreshadowing of the 2008 Olympics? I sure hope so.

Muy bien, Rafa, felicidades! :woohoo: Once again you've tied Federer for the most titles this season. Now time to go to Italy to defend Spain's place in the world group.

JeNn
09-18-2005, 02:29 PM
What was the standard like?

First set: Coria was really playing very well. Good variety, nice shots.
Nadal - was not focussed and he kept on making silly mistakes. To be fair: some of those mistakes were really due to Coria's excellent game but others were due to a lack of focus. Nadal was very nervous in that first set, so it seems.

Second set: Nadal went into this set with a "OK, I have got nothing to lose here...let's go". Coria's level dropped a bit while Nadal's picked up his game. Starting being more agressive, using that strong forehand of his. You could see Nadal's confidence growing by the minute.
Nadal attacked Coria's FH more, I think.

Third set: Nadal with high confidence now, selecting his shots better, more aggression and less mistakes.
Like the commentators in Eurosport said: "this is much more like the young talent that we saw rise to the number two in rank. He's starting to boss Coria on the court" + "Coria is giving it away mentally. He's going for too many trick shots and Nadal is making him pay for it".

To be fair: I heard that Coria had a bit of trouble with his shoulder (not sure about this) and maybe that's why his forehand was attackable

Thank you for this :worship:

Action Jackson
09-18-2005, 02:31 PM
I think you're one of the few that are still obssessed with that - or at least that Rafa supposedly not getting his proper due outside of the dirt....which is a bunch of bs.

Think what you like, he won the TMS in Montreal and yes that got the due respect from the MTF Alumni and made a final in Miami and yes that got it's due, but hey as long as people only fawn over Federer things are fine in tennis land.

Coria has made finals on every surface, and the 4th round of every Slam this year, yet still gets pinged as a clay specialist, got to love the logic there.

daze11
09-18-2005, 02:31 PM
I would be curious to know what the heck happened to Coria in those last two sets to just fade away like that.yeah, somethings definitely up there...no one ever beat coria by the scores in his career and lets not pretend rafa has looked great recently, he's played ok and just enough to get by and not against any top players.

he had said he might not play the final because of his leg, and the argie papers already wrote about it before the final, so it does look like he made it through the first and then something happened. If that blows his davis cup,it will really be a shame. but what are you gonna do, not play nadal? sounds like he had things in hand for a while.

Action Jackson
09-18-2005, 02:33 PM
What was the standard like?

First set: Coria was really playing very well. Good variety, nice shots.
Nadal - was not focussed and he kept on making silly mistakes. To be fair: some of those mistakes were really due to Coria's excellent game but others were due to a lack of focus. Nadal was very nervous in that first set, so it seems. Nadal broke Coria in this set but that was due to Coria making silly mistakes this time and not so much with Rafa playing well. He was nervous as well.

Second set: Nadal went into this set with an "OK, I have got nothing to lose here...let's go" attitude. The fighter in him broke out.
Coria's level dropped a bit while Nadal's picked up his game. Starting being more agressive, using that strong forehand of his. You could see Nadal's confidence growing by the minute.
Nadal attacked Coria's FH more, I think.

Third set: Nadal with high confidence now, selecting his shots better, more aggression and less mistakes.
Like the commentators in Eurosport said: "this is much more like the young talent that we saw rise to the number two in rank. He's starting to boss Coria on the court" + "Coria is giving it away mentally. He's going for too many trick shots and Nadal is making him pay for it".

To be fair: I heard that Coria had a bit of trouble with his shoulder (not sure about this) and maybe that's why his forehand was attackable

Thank you very much for the analysis of the match it was appreciated, so in other words Nadal wasn't passive in the last 2 sets and Coria's level dropped.

emile32
09-18-2005, 02:34 PM
It's a bit sad for nadal to win 10 tournements and still be 1750 points behind federer.

gebl
09-18-2005, 02:34 PM
Congrats to Rafa for beating Wilander's record of most titles won by a teenager during a single season, (and in only nine months).

RogiFan88
09-18-2005, 02:37 PM
...I would be curious to know what the heck happened to Coria in those last two sets to just fade away like that.

I would guess that Nadal happened to Coria. Give Rafa some credit for turning the match around and beating a determined opponent. ;)

Congrats Rafa!! :worship:

JC`s rainbow
09-18-2005, 02:38 PM
I find it rather funny that whenever Coria loses his fans say he was injured.

He`s just not playing that well anymore as he was in 2003 ( when has he last beaten a Top 10 player ??? )
and Rafa is the way better player.
Period.

CONGRATULATIONS RAFA !!!!!!

Action Jackson
09-18-2005, 02:41 PM
I find it rather funny that whenever Coria loses his fans say he was injured.

It's a common thing, but the fact is Coria lost to a better player on the day.

HappyAndie
09-18-2005, 02:45 PM
Did Coria behave himself today? I kept falling asleep.

Also, can anyone kinda summarize what Coria said at the end? I could understand Nadal, but for some reason, I had trouble with Coria, or should I say, "Gay-mo Korea" as the Chinese so wonderfully pronounced it? :)

thrust
09-18-2005, 02:50 PM
Well done Rafa! Keep it up and you will be #1 by next year^s FO, if not before.

daze11
09-18-2005, 02:56 PM
on injuries...

coria's injuries are NOT excuses, they are just FRUSTRATIONS. it is endlessly tiresome to have his play compromised but fitness is not the issue either. he's a little guy--in every match, the announcers mention how great he is "for such a diminutive player" and a Nadal is a buffalo so he is not as prone to injuries and doesnt have to worry about it...thats not impressive though, hes a buffalo. Its sad that coria will always be hampered by things just because hes not a neanderthal.

RonE
09-18-2005, 03:00 PM
Congrats Rafa for your 10th title. http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/animal/animal0085.gif

tennyfan
09-18-2005, 03:01 PM
Actually, JCRainbow, Jazzgirl posted yesterday that the Argentine press mentioned Coria had a leg injury before the final. I think Daze was just wondering if this was the reason Coria's level went down after taking the first set. And it's true that Coria's level isn't nearly the same as it was in 2003 or 2004 for that matter. In fact, you could fairly say the same thing about JCF. The fact is, regardless of Coria's loss today to Nadal, Coria has had a great year (especially considering he missed half of last year with shoulder surgery) making it to the 4th round in the first 3 slams and the QF of the USO. He's also been in a couple of close finals (Monte Carlo/Rome) and won in Umag and has represented Argentina well at Hopman Cup, WTC and 2 Davis Cup ties. I know you hate Coria (and BTW I know who you are) and can't resist the temptation to put him down every chance you get. It's time to move on.

musefanatic
09-18-2005, 03:10 PM
Well done Rafa! Managed to regain your excellent form. the 10th of many titles.

*Ljubica*
09-18-2005, 03:11 PM
I watched the entire match on Eurosport (apart from the first 2 games), and to the best of my knowledge (and from what our commentators said),- there was no sign of any injury. Coria did not have any medical timeouts - nor did I see him holding his leg or shoulder in any way. Simple truth of the matter was - Rafa is the better player and he played better overall. True he started slowly and made a lot of very uncharacteristic unforced errors - but then he woke up and played awesome in the second two sets. Also Coria started serving double faults and making unforced errors that he didn't make in the beginning of the match - he looked tired and very irritable :rolleyes: - but not injured in any way.

alexito
09-18-2005, 03:12 PM
yes rafaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you are the best in clay or hard
I happy for rafa

alexito
09-18-2005, 03:13 PM
yes rafaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you are the best in clay or hard
I happy for rafa
I like see coria lose

tennyfan
09-18-2005, 03:25 PM
Rosie, thanks for the report. It's good to know it doesn't appear to be an injury. I'm sure both Nadal and Coria were tired today after playing 4 matches in 3 days. Kudos to Rafael for finding the way to win despite this. On to Davis Cup! Vamos Argentina!

propi
09-18-2005, 03:25 PM
Congrats Rafa :worship: great season, I'd love to see you winning Madrid TMS à la Ferrero, or losing the final vs Tommy, of course :p
I hope he's show Chinese press and public all his mediterranean charm so they support him to death in Shanghai :p

WF4EVER
09-18-2005, 03:28 PM
Wow! Any clay court title! Go, Nadal!

star
09-18-2005, 03:28 PM
Congratulations to Rafael. I'm very happy for him. I hope he does well in the indoor season too.

:sad: Guille. But really, I never expected him to win. As Tennyfan said, he's come back from major surgery and had a solid year. Shoulder surgery is tough, and we all have seen that his serve (never his strength anyway) has suffered. Guille lost to a great player. There's no shame in that. :)

Action Jackson
09-18-2005, 03:38 PM
Here is the Chicadee China Chinese Claycourt Champion.

http://www.gotennis.com/Photos/2005-09-18T142050Z_01_PEK50D_RTRIDSP_2_SPORT-TENNIS-CHINA.jpg

RonE
09-18-2005, 03:42 PM
Why does he always bite his trophies? Sure, 'trophy' and 'trough' sound similair, hell, many trophies even look like troughs but still :shrug:

Action Jackson
09-18-2005, 03:46 PM
Why does he always bite his trophies? Sure, 'trophy' and 'trough' sound similair, hell, many trophies even look like troughs but still :shrug:

Korda had the scissors kick, Björkman had the dance step and Rafa has the trophy bite, a signature move.

daze11
09-18-2005, 03:55 PM
Why does he always bite his trophies? Sure, 'trophy' and 'trough' sound similair, hell, many trophies even look like troughs but still :shrug:as stated in an earlier post, he is a neanderthal and proud of it. i think those eye-browed facial expressions (ala Brutus in popeye) and gay pin-up armflex are even more grating than his biting of trophies.

Rafa = Fed Killa
09-18-2005, 04:00 PM
Rafa nice work #10. :worship:

RonE
09-18-2005, 04:02 PM
Korda had the scissors kick, Björkman had the dance step and Rafa has the trophy bite, a signature move.

Thanks for the clarification ;)

as stated in an earlier post, he is a neanderthal and proud of it.

Rafael Neanderdal? :tape:

star
09-18-2005, 04:02 PM
Why does he always bite his trophies? Sure, 'trophy' and 'trough' sound similair, hell, many trophies even look like troughs but still :shrug:

Get over it.

knight_ley
09-18-2005, 04:03 PM
:bounce: VAMOS RAFA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :aparty:

propi
09-18-2005, 04:06 PM
as stated in an earlier post, he is a neanderthal and proud of it. i think those eye-browed facial expressions (ala Brutus in popeye) and gay pin-up armflex are even more grating than his biting of trophies.
Plus he lacks all the class and education you've shown to have :worship:

oneandonlyhsn
09-18-2005, 04:16 PM
Guille :sad:

BlackSilver
09-18-2005, 04:18 PM
Congratulations to Nadal for showing once more that he is a great fighter and a natural champion.

landoud
09-18-2005, 04:20 PM
well done rafa

ezekiel
09-18-2005, 04:25 PM
Good job Rafael

topspin_baby
09-18-2005, 04:29 PM
as stated in an earlier post, he is a neanderthal and proud of it. i think those eye-browed facial expressions (ala Brutus in popeye) and gay pin-up armflex are even more grating than his biting of trophies.


bitter are we?? :rolleyes:

R.Federer
09-18-2005, 04:32 PM
Rafa has a great year already and more master tournamentes to come up. I thought Guille will win, because he shows great HC performance in USO. Anyone watch this? Was the match good?

texasgirl
09-18-2005, 04:36 PM
Congratulations Rafa. :worship: :kiss:

1sun
09-18-2005, 04:37 PM
congrats rafa

nermo
09-18-2005, 04:38 PM
Vamos Rafael... :bigclap: , it's a good step for gaining hard courts confidence..and titles inshALLAH :)

I would be curious to know what the heck happened to Coria in those last two sets to just fade away like that. posted by Mirkaland
yes, didn't see the match, but looking at the score, second and third sets seemed like Coria gave it up may be mentally and physically at an early point..as i 've said before his injuries may be real or psychological, but hate to see these injuries always come at bad moments :sad: ..and whether today's was a real injury or whether Nadal was to good for him, just keep going Coria... :bigwave:

Action Jackson
09-18-2005, 04:40 PM
Rafa has a great year already and more master tournamentes to come up. I thought Guille will win, because he shows great HC performance in USO. Anyone watch this? Was the match good?

Written by Castafiore.


Originally Posted by Castafiore


First set: Coria was really playing very well. Good variety, nice shots.
Nadal - was not focussed and he kept on making silly mistakes. To be fair: some of those mistakes were really due to Coria's excellent game but others were due to a lack of focus. Nadal was very nervous in that first set, so it seems. Nadal broke Coria in this set but that was due to Coria making silly mistakes this time and not so much with Rafa playing well. He was nervous as well.

Second set: Nadal went into this set with an "OK, I have got nothing to lose here...let's go" attitude. The fighter in him broke out.
Coria's level dropped a bit while Nadal's picked up his game. Starting being more agressive, using that strong forehand of his. You could see Nadal's confidence growing by the minute.
Nadal attacked Coria's FH more, I think.

Third set: Nadal with high confidence now, selecting his shots better, more aggression and less mistakes.
Like the commentators in Eurosport said: "this is much more like the young talent that we saw rise to the number two in rank. He's starting to boss Coria on the court" + "Coria is giving it away mentally. He's going for too many trick shots and Nadal is making him pay for it".

To be fair: I heard that Coria had a bit of trouble with his shoulder (not sure about this) and maybe that's why his forehand was attackable

*Ljubica*
09-18-2005, 04:40 PM
Rafa looks kind of cute biting that trophy :angel:

daze11
09-18-2005, 04:55 PM
Plus he lacks all the class and education you've shown to have :worship:
you're right, i should not sling mud. i forget he's not even 20, so if he wants to bite trophies and evoke a brutus cartoon, thats his way. obviously, people like it.

1sun
09-18-2005, 05:02 PM
that trophy sucks

LaTenista
09-18-2005, 05:04 PM
:shrug: I fail to see how Rafa can be compared to a buffalo. He's not that tall (only about 6'1") and he's not huge. Carlos is bigger than him.

He's got as much class as Fed but people don't tend to see that since they tend to obsess about his muscles, capri pants, biting trophies, etc.

LaTenista
09-18-2005, 05:06 PM
that trophy sucks

Didn't you know the Chinese had it especially made to match Rafa's shirt? :tape:

nermo
09-18-2005, 05:08 PM
that trophy sucks posted by 1st sun

oh does it?? :unsure: i like it, it looks different.. :)

Action Jackson
09-18-2005, 05:08 PM
Didn't you know the Chinese had it especially made to match Rafa's shirt? :tape:

It's made from the clay the trophy is.

Chloe le Bopper
09-18-2005, 05:27 PM
:shrug: I fail to see how Rafa can be compared to a buffalo. He's not that tall (only about 6'1") and he's not huge. Carlos is bigger than him.

He's got as much class as Fed but people don't tend to see that since they tend to obsess about his muscles, capri pants, biting trophies, etc.
People like to judge others based on how they look. This is nothing new ;)

revolution
09-18-2005, 05:30 PM
Rafa is a force in tennis now, and he will continue to develop.

RogiFan88
09-18-2005, 05:35 PM
Rafa looks kind of cute biting that trophy :angel:

Even cuter biting the panda bear!! :angel:

1sun
09-18-2005, 05:36 PM
Rafa is a force in tennis now, and he will continue to develop.
he was a force before now

Raquel
09-18-2005, 05:39 PM
I thought in the first set Coria showed a lot more variety and ability to end points quicker than Nadal and Nadal did well to hang in and get as far as 7-5. Nadal was whacking his forehand as hard as he could yet couldn't seem to hit any outright winners and Coria's flatter shots were a lot more effective. Against most other players Coria would have won that set 6-2 or 6-3. It's testimony to Nadal's defensive ability and the shots he makes when on the defensive that kept the first set so close.

In the second and third sets I thought Nadal was even more patient. He wasn't hitting the desperation drop shots that he was missing a lot of in the first set. Coria began making a few extra unforced errors and Nadal turned the match into his rythym, took control of it and didn't let up until he won. Well done to Nadal ;) I enjoyed watching him turn the match round and then finish it.

revolution
09-18-2005, 05:44 PM
he was a force before now

He only became a major force when he won Montreal, as it proved he could compete on multi surfaces.

Merton
09-18-2005, 06:18 PM
Congratulations to Rafa for winning his 10th title, what an amazing year! A casual observation shows that he would be top-20 even if he got 0 points on clay. Given where he started the year, his progress is really amazing. Coria had also a good result in China, i would be surprised if he missed Shangai.

Björki
09-18-2005, 06:37 PM
:bigclap: Congrats to Rafa :bigclap:

Adman
09-18-2005, 08:48 PM
nadal is 3-0 in finals against guille this year.

2004 Best Clay Court Player Coria

2005 Best Clay Court Player Nadal

Nadal has out played Coria this year on the clay.

MariaV
09-18-2005, 08:48 PM
BIEN HECHO RAFA!!!! :bigclap: :bounce: :yippee: :bigclap: :bounce: :yippee:

MariaV
09-18-2005, 09:00 PM
Even cuter biting the panda bear!! :angel:
:hearts: :inlove:

fabolous
09-18-2005, 09:02 PM
2004 Best Clay Court Player Coria

2005 Best Clay Court Player Nadal

Nadal has out played Coria this year on the clay.
that is a fact, nobody can argue that and it's not only clay, nadal is just a better player this year.


Congratulations to Rafa for winning his 10th title, what an amazing year! A casual observation shows that he would be top-20 even if he got 0 points on clay. Given where he started the year, his progress is really amazing. Coria had also a good result in China, i would be surprised if he missed Shangai.
thanks for pointing out nadal's skills on other surfaces than clay. indeed it's a sensational year for him.

for guille, i'm almost 100% sure that we'll see him in shanghai, look at the guys behind him in the race, i can't see three players overtake him in the next weeks.

vincayou
09-18-2005, 09:11 PM
Coria :sad:
I was just able to see the first set. It's my fault.

Howlman
09-18-2005, 10:17 PM
Congrats Rafael...The MOST exciting player right now!

Scotso
09-18-2005, 11:16 PM
Rafael :bounce:

daze11
09-18-2005, 11:19 PM
Well, i thought I would be more impressed by nadal than ever when I finally saw the match, but actually I’m now LESS impressed with him and more impressed with coria. If coria wanted it, he dominated play—more shots, more strategy, more smarts –first set was more of a massacre than it looked, and the American announcers picked up on it saying he was clearly the better player after the first set, and even after falling down 0-5 in the 2nd, they said, “this deficit of coria’s is completely self-made.”

Nadal did little to change things but coria just had a letdown and then never gained his focus & intensity again. If nadal starts winning points, you can watch & just say ‘his confidence is growing, he’s taking over’ but that’s not what happened. Coria kind of ‘went away’…the ralleys stopped being dynamic and long as in the first, but fairly short with coria hitting loose balls out long and out wide…but not from nadal’s power. guille just got loose and started slapping errors almost in the mood of an exhibition match.

Even as late as 1-3 in the THIRD, announcers commented the pace of the match was all still a matter of coria’s play. When he stepped up & focused, he was dictating play and his serve was even very good. But he was very lax in the semi too, so I have no idea what is going on in his personal life, but at least where tennis is concerned, this match is a fantastic sign for him. His lacking of intensity and “care” as we’re used to seeing is strange…but I was very happy with his tennis and no longer feel bad at all about the loss. Instead, I see that 03 coria is better than 05 nadal.

But in 06, hopefully he will focus on turning this great play into actual wins. I know all of argentina is counting on him this Friday for davis cup so he didn’t want to put himself out too much, but I think it was more what the announcers said, “Its not so easy to turn your intensity level on and off like that” and once he tanked the 2nd set to get ready for the 3rd, he wasn’t able to re-ignite.

Never thought i'd say this after such a loss, but all in all, :yeah: Guille!!! :banana: :aparty:

nobama
09-18-2005, 11:47 PM
He only became a major force when he won Montreal, as it proved he could compete on multi surfaces.He only became one after he won one hard court event (where he didn't have to play Fed, Hewitt, Safin or Roddick)? :scratch: Nadal is good period. You can't be the #2 player in the world and not be a major force in the game. I don't think he's up there yet on hard courts, but if he works at it and adjusts his schedule to play more hard court events, he could become a real threat on the surface.

Castafiore
09-19-2005, 08:44 AM
Daze11,

I can see your disappointment. The score of set 2 and 3 are harsh.

You are right about set 1: Coria was simply playing better at that time and Nadal was trying to fight back but he lacked focus at times. The commentators here were amazed at the silly mistakes he made and they were saying that he was just a shadow of himself. That was perhaps partly because of Coria's excellent game but that's not the entire explanation. Nadal was just not playing to his potential.

But, your argument stops somewhere in set 2 and certainly in set 3. Sure, Coria was starting to doubt more and he made more mistakes as a result of it but come on...Nadal really picked up his game. If you say that it was just a matter of Coria giving it away and not as much Nadal winning it, then you were only paying attention to one player on the court.
And you can use the words of the American commentators but I don't need a commentator when I can see the match with my own eyes. But, if we decide to throw in commentators:I have listened to one Dutch and two British commentators (I saw the match live: British commentators + I saw the repeat (Dutch commentator)). I'm guessing that when you are a fan of a player, you only listen to the comments you want to hear and you dismiss the comments as rubbish when it doesn't fit your bias (hey, I'm as biased as the next person at times).
The commentators here were saying that it was a combination of things. Coria gave it away mentally a bit although he never stopped fighting BUT Nadal really increased his game, used his forehand more with good results, had better footwork, more precision, a better shot selection, better use of the court. By set number three Coria was still fighting but he realized that he had to come up with something special (hence, the many trick shots). The thing is that at that time, Nadal's confidence was high enough so that he could punish Coria for the special shots with a couple of great shots of his own.

Commentators here in set three:
- About Nadal: "this is more like the young talented player we saw climb up to the rank number two" - "He's returning much better than in set number one" - "Coria is going for too many trick shots and Nadal is making him pay for it, coming up with his own special shots in return" - "Nadal's footwork failed him in set number one, and he's so much better now" - "He's simply bossing Coria around at the moment".
- About Coria: at times, you could see why they call him "the magician" with a selection of great shots but some of them were not disguised well enough in set 3.
They said that both sensed that this match was important. If Coria had beaten Nadal. Their match-up would be 2-2. If Nadal had the upper hand, it would be 3-1. Plus, it was their first match together away from clay. That explains why both were tense at times. It was an important match for the both of them.

The victory is not just a matter of Coria letting go of the match but it was also a matter of Nadal fighting back and increasing his own level. Coria was still able to put up a good fight in set 2 and 3 so he didn't just let go. It's just that Nadal no longer was undergoing the match at that point in the match.
I'm also a Coria fan so I can understand the need to downplay Nadal's accomplishments but come on, be reasonable.

The thing is that it's very difficult to win from Nadal from the baseline. Ferrero is too unsure to come to the net and it's not really Coria's speciality either.
At this point in time, a good S&V player has a much better chance of beating Nadal on hardcourts and that's where Nadal still needs to work. He needs to find an answer to that by coming up to the net more himself amongst other things (he showed that he has the potential to do that in the match with Ferrero and a couple of times against Coria but he still hesitates to do so. He needs more confidence at the net) and by being aggressive enough. In the first set against Coria, you could see it. When was too defencive and Coria could pretty much control the match even if it was't easy but when Rafa showed more aggression, it was Nadal's time to dictate the match.

In an interview afterwards, he said that he understands Coria's game because there are a lot of similarities with his own game. That probably helped him to turn around the match.

Drimal
09-19-2005, 09:56 AM
Guillermo :bigcry: :bigcry:

Already the third final this year he lost against Rafael Nadal. :mad:

daze11
09-19-2005, 03:36 PM
Castafiore,
i've taught tennis so of course i know what i am seeing myself, but was surprised the announcers had it so right...usually i think they just follow the scoreline and then try to explain the score by tauting one player over the other, and USUALLY fail to recognize when one player is allowing the other to appear better.

I've seen nadal play some great matches. this is not one of them. i was surprised by his lack of force in his shots with a large number of looping strokes, and coria's ability to bully him. if you rewatch it, although i guess you have, it is hard for me to imagine you could deny coria was hitting shots almost casually into the tape and many inches past the baseline and under zero pressure from nadal. in the first, he was in the zone and nadal couldnt get very far.

coria fell behind 0-5 in the exact same situation at the USO, flaking out after winning the first against ginepri, and then he did it the other day at china open against youzhny in his 6-4 1-6 6-1 win. its been a pattern he's been in. he seems to lose focus and go down 0-5 in the 2nd after taking the first...3 times in one week! :eek: but he didnt regain the intensity this time, although there were some brilliant points.

I totally agree with you about seeing/hearing bias, but in this case, i am well aware of it, and I see a match dictated by coria one way or the other. In fact, those are also the exact words of the commentator, jimmy arias. Also, the other announcer said, "My, Nadal has REALLY raised the level of his game now" at 3-1 in the 3rd, and Arias said, "well, in large part due to this man right here, guillermo coria." I wasnt following the cues of the commentator, but again, was surprised how alert he was, rather than in just buying into the SCORE trends of a match, but seeing what was causing them.

but admittedly, if coria were rolling away with the match with nadal scappily hitting crap errors after 3 or 4 strokes, i'd say coria was just destroying him. ;) i would probably have ignored how poorly nadal had played and assume guille had tired him out. so i'm not surprised nadal fans think he played great. but it was a highly entertaining match, however you look at it.

TennisGrandSlam
09-19-2005, 03:53 PM
Clay?

Not Hatdcourt???

mangoes
09-19-2005, 03:58 PM
Well, i thought I would be more impressed by nadal than ever when I finally saw the match, but actually I’m now LESS impressed with him and more impressed with coria. If coria wanted it, he dominated play—more shots, more strategy, more smarts –first set was more of a massacre than it looked, and the American announcers picked up on it saying he was clearly the better player after the first set, and even after falling down 0-5 in the 2nd, they said, “this deficit of coria’s is completely self-made.”

Nadal did little to change things but coria just had a letdown and then never gained his focus & intensity again. If nadal starts winning points, you can watch & just say ‘his confidence is growing, he’s taking over’ but that’s not what happened. Coria kind of ‘went away’…the ralleys stopped being dynamic and long as in the first, but fairly short with coria hitting loose balls out long and out wide…but not from nadal’s power. guille just got loose and started slapping errors almost in the mood of an exhibition match.

Even as late as 1-3 in the THIRD, announcers commented the pace of the match was all still a matter of coria’s play. When he stepped up & focused, he was dictating play and his serve was even very good. But he was very lax in the semi too, so I have no idea what is going on in his personal life, but at least where tennis is concerned, this match is a fantastic sign for him. His lacking of intensity and “care” as we’re used to seeing is strange…but I was very happy with his tennis and no longer feel bad at all about the loss. Instead, I see that 03 coria is better than 05 nadal.

But in 06, hopefully he will focus on turning this great play into actual wins. I know all of argentina is counting on him this Friday for davis cup so he didn’t want to put himself out too much, but I think it was more what the announcers said, “Its not so easy to turn your intensity level on and off like that” and once he tanked the 2nd set to get ready for the 3rd, he wasn’t able to re-ignite.

Never thought i'd say this after such a loss, but all in all, :yeah: Guille!!! :banana: :aparty:


Some very valid points. Coria is without doubt a top 10 player. I just don't understand why he has a problem closing out matches. US Open quarterfinal match should have been his, yet he tanked it. The Final match for the China Open, Coria could have won that match, yet he tanked it. I am not putting down Nadal, but he had a lot of help from Coria to win that match. I just don't know what's going through Coria's head.

daze11
09-19-2005, 04:38 PM
Some very valid points. Coria is without doubt a top 10 player. I just don't understand why he has a problem closing out matches. US Open quarterfinal match should have been his, yet he tanked it. The Final match for the China Open, Coria could have won that match, yet he tanked it. I am not putting down Nadal, but he had a lot of help from Coria to win that match. I just don't know what's going through Coria's head.classic signs of burn out. too many events, destinations, & matches into a blur until you cant bring yourself to care. NORMALLY, if he was in that situation yesterday, he would have been intense & storming about, but he was super lax and didnt look one bit upset at the end, just as he did zero celebration after his comeback win in the semi.

lorenz
09-19-2005, 05:36 PM
classic signs of burn out. too many events, destinations, & matches into a blur until you cant bring yourself to care. NORMALLY, if he was in that situation yesterday, he would have been intense & storming about, but he was super lax and didnt look one bit upset at the end, just as he did zero celebration after his comeback win in the semi.

I hope not.
Something wrong is with him. I don't what, but I expect he wil recover soon.
Maybe, Davis Cup would "cure" him.

daze11
09-19-2005, 05:54 PM
I hope not.
Something wrong is with him. I don't what, but I expect he wil recover soon.
Maybe, Davis Cup would "cure" him.yes, something is wrong. also the commentators said in the semi, 'there is something very un-coria like about him today...his attitude, his shots, everything.'

but we dont know what is ever really going on in the personal life. we all know, many many things can be going bad from small to big for any of us, and no one knows how deep things can get for someone, nothing to do with tennis at all.

Castafiore
09-19-2005, 06:08 PM
iI've seen nadal play some great matches. this is not one of them. i was surprised by his lack of force in his shots with a large number of looping strokes, and coria's ability to bully him. I agree that this wasn't one of his great matches. Nadal only showed a bit of his potential in the third set. Also, I wouldn't call a 7-5 set 'bully him' but Coria was indeed the more dominant player of the first set.

if you rewatch it, although i guess you have, it is hard for me to imagine you could deny coria was hitting shots almost casually into the tape and many inches past the baseline and under zero pressure from nadal. in the first, he was in the zone and nadal couldnt get very far.
True. Coria was good in the first set but you're only telling one side of the story here. Nadal was really not focussed, made easy mistakes. Don't know why. At the same time, the commentators speculated over what was bothering Nadal and they noticed that his footwork was off. He made a lot of crazy and wrong returns where the commentators kept saying that he usually doesn't make those mistakes and I agree: he usually doesn't and still, it was a 7-5 set. Doesn't that say something here?

coria fell behind 0-5 in the exact same situation at the USO
That 0-5 score looks harsh but it does not really give a fair representation of the fight that Coria was still giving Nadal. Towards the end of the first set, I (and the commentators with me) felt that he was looking for ways to get control of the match. In the second set, he increased his aggression, attacked Coria's forehand and used his topspin more effectively. The thing the commentators here noticed at the end of the first set here was that Nadal was a bit angry with himself (shaking his head,...). The commentators speculated that it could be a turning point. They were expecting to see a different Nadal, a more aggressive one with less foolish mistakes. A "do or die" attitude. That's not saying that he suddenly played a fantastic set but he played much better.

Nadal raised his level and it's not just because Coria started playing poorly suddenly because he wasn't. Like I said, Coria gave in mentally a bit but that's part of the game. Physically there was nothing really wrong, I think. I still saw him run well, move well and make good shots.

i'm not surprised nadal fans think he played great. but it was a highly entertaining match, however you look at it.Oh, I love matches between Coria and Nadal. I love their style of play, those drop shots. They are both excellent in defence but can switch gears and attack. You think I thought he played great? Pfff...you should have seen my comments in the live thread.
Nadal wasn't playing very well in the first set and he raised his level in set 2 but he only started to play closer to his potential in set 3 but I have seen him play better matches.

That's not saying that Coria was playing to his potential either. I like seeing him in action and you would expect a closer match from him. Many people expected Nadal to have a closer match on HC with Ferrero and with Coria because they have already proven that they can play well on HC.

But, I've come to accept it that people just assume that when Nadal gets a good match result that there must be something wrong with the other player.
(or rather, I'm trying to accept that people need to make that assumption because it has happened so often this year).

I can understand your disappointment but I'm guessing that you are only looking at it from one side of the fence. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that there's no truth in what you are saying but judging by what I saw with my own eyes and what the commentators here said, I think you're exaggerating a bit and I can understand that. The 6-1, 6-2 results are harsh and I would probably also be looking for an explanation if it was the other way round.

daze11
09-19-2005, 07:14 PM
i think the first set, coria was at his best, nadal was not. but the fact that nadal still did not play near his best in 2nd or 3rd and still won by that far tells us coria's drop was rapid and complete. if i thought there was ONE "vamos!" from coria's mouth in the 2nd & 3rd, i'd agree he was fighting. it didnt happen once.

i'm not that disappointed because again, i dont think he really tried. i am :confused: about that, at some level, but he must have something going on. its hard to get upset since he didnt seem to be upset. No question i would have loved--we ALL would have loved to see-- them BOTH in full flight with those long crazy drawn out points. Nadal MAY have given us those to see if coria had pushed to make it happen on his side of the net. but i felt coria had a big opportunity he didnt take advantage of because nadal did not rise to his normal standards.

lorenz
09-19-2005, 07:42 PM
I think it's psychological problem. He isn't the same Coria since he lost the 2004 Roland Garros final. Obviously he had flashes of good matches, but he is not the same. There are three public critical situtatios that could been affected Coria:

1) Gaudio won "his" 2004 Roland Garros Final
2) His Marriage (I don't think so)
3) His operation


Pd: I'm Sorry, My english sucks !

star
09-19-2005, 07:47 PM
Your English is pretty good. Good enough for me anyway! :)

I think 1 and 3 are the culprits. :)

tangerine_dream
09-19-2005, 10:50 PM
Sometimes I wonder: is the men's field really as deep as everyone says it is if Roger and Rafa are hogging all the titles? :scratch:

R.Federer
09-19-2005, 11:22 PM
An interesting statistic after China open:

No. 1 seeds who reach the final of a tournament are 24-0 this year (this was rafa's fourth tournament in which he is top seed, Roge accounts for 10 of the 24)

Also, with Nadal defeating coria, No. 1's are 6-0 vs. No. 2's in finals.

Chloe le Bopper
09-20-2005, 06:18 AM
Sometimes I wonder: is the men's field really as deep as everyone says it is if Roger and Rafa are hogging all the titles? :scratch:
Most people used to make those arguments before Federer. And before Nadal 2005.

1sun
09-20-2005, 07:09 AM
Most people used to make those arguments before Federer. And before Nadal 2005.
this is hard but i agree.
btw dream, go tell roddick that, im sure he'll agree ;)

oneandonlyhsn
09-20-2005, 07:13 AM
this is hard but i agree.
btw dream, go tell roddick that, im sure he'll agree ;)

:lol: Good one 1sun :worship:

1sun
09-20-2005, 07:33 AM
:lol: Good one 1sun :worship:
;)