Andy's improvements. what do you think? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Andy's improvements. what do you think?

Havok
07-20-2003, 06:01 AM
hey everyone, i just want everyone to list like 5-10 things that Andy has improved recently. not just because he changed coaches, but just to see his improvement when comparing to last year or the year before. here are mince( btw a little sentence or 2 would be nice:))

1) the noggin- obviously the one that stands out the most. extremely focues now, mind doesnt wander. he doesnt make things get to him as easily as before
2) backhand- like night and day. it was pretty abysmal before, but now its turned into a steady shot, and sets up the forehand nicely. and wow those backhand down the line shots. its becoming more of a weapon, just not there yet
3) confidence- it has sky rocketed and this is what pushes him to win.
4) becoming the best- he now has the frame of mind to become the best he can and this is pushing him to do better every single time
5) serve- yes believe it or not, the serve. extremely high % of them in, considering the speed he gets on them. varying them much better this year. using the off-speed ones and the ones out wide very well
6) better shot selection- actually setting up points better. not going for the winner when there's a huge opening, but plays a good deep ball, which ends up being a winner anyways:p, but is a more careful shot which can easily be put away again if the other dude hits it back
7) movement- was already a pretty decent mover for a dude with that kind of stature. dont know why people say his movement sucks. hes getting more balls back, and looks quicker on the court
8) volleys/net play- we're getting there. should see some major improvement here since he had 2 weeks to train with Brad and include some new shots
uh........can't think of more, im sure there r some others, and plus its late and im tired:p so everyone share ur opinions. they dont really have to be in order or anything, just list them and stuff

Gonzo Hates Me!
07-20-2003, 04:21 PM
Well here's my favorite one: he thinks and executes more realistically

He is less about a stage production on the court and more about doing what's truly necessary in order to win a point

Dirk
07-20-2003, 06:24 PM
The reason this thread exists is cause of his loss to Rogi. There is nothing he can do to beat him but catch him on a bad day. Andy played well and he would have probably beaten most of the players in the draw with his level that day. Even if he came to net more he still would have lost, after all Rogi took out the greatest grass court player a few years ago. He lost to the player with the greatest game on tour, nothing to be ashamed of. A semi is not a bad result and if his "dickhead" coach has anything to say about it; Andy should ask him "so brad how many semis did you have at wimbly?

Havok
07-20-2003, 09:58 PM
Dirk, why did u just put words in my mouth, huh???? the reason this thread was created was coz i felt like i submited a lot more in Andy's thread on wtaworld than here, so this subject sprung to my mind the first, and nobody has done it before. i never said Roger sucks and he shouldn't have won, he deserved to win. and play by the rules you dickhead, dont post in this thread if u dont have anything good to say loser:rolleyes:

Gonzo Hates Me!
07-21-2003, 01:03 AM
Naldo, don't get worked up over this. :) Who knows what Dirk is talking about?! LOL! As long as he didn't say anything truly rude

Dirk
07-21-2003, 09:13 AM
Nobody insulted Andy. I only insulted his coach cause he is really a arrogant asshole. I think anyone with a head on their shoulders understands what I am talking about. Had Andy won that match and maybe won the final, this thread about his improvements wouldn't exist. Andy will get better but how much better is the question. He has enough game to win titles and maybe a few slams provided the draw opens up for him.

Gonzo Hates Me!
07-21-2003, 02:44 PM
Dirk, I remember you from Yahoo! Groups Roger Federer... I am not shocked you are saying this because you couldn't talk about Federer without putting other players down.

Who cares that Andy didn't win Wimbledon. Dude, nobody cares! You think Andy fans just sit around and are bitter because he lost so we have to talk about and look at the bright side?! It's not like that. Andy did improve Dirk... what is wrong with talking about that?! This thread would have even more purpose of existence had he won Wimbledon because the main thought everyone would have is 'WOW, he really improved to actually be a Slam winner.' He really improved to get to the semifinal--to get this far. Andy being a better player was really obvious since he won Queens, so we have room to talk about this

You are so sure of yourself because you've always had an ego FOR Roger. LOL! In the Roger forum, in your thread, you randomly found a way of putting KKK Hewitt into your speech like you always do. I think along with your devoted admiration to Roger, you have to make other players look bad. It's not necessary

The only thing I agree with you about is that Andy's coach is arrogant

Dirk
07-21-2003, 04:00 PM
I always give players their due. Your the one who baited me into replying more on this topic at the Rogi forum, maybe you should stop being so two-faced Mrs. Guga. KKK Hewitt has earned his nickname and I only mention him when him and Rogi play against each other. Nobody cares here that Andy didn't win? I find that hard to believe. I already said Andy improved as a player but of course you didn't process that into your little brain. There are plenty of talented players who I respect besides Rogi. Guga, Kafel, Safin, Moya, JC, Rios, and others. I gave andy plenty of praise saying he played well in his match with Roger and probably would have beaten most others in the draw that day. I think some Andy fans maybe not here but in general are being too hard on him.

Gonzo Hates Me!
07-21-2003, 07:22 PM
LOL, what's with the insults Dirk?! Is that really necessary when all I want you to know is that you're wrong in thinking that this thread is only here because he lost. Because it's not. LOL! That's all you need to know--that's all I'm trying to say so chill out

Dirk
07-21-2003, 08:26 PM
I misunderstood you then, chalk it up to the net. I think we cleared it up on PM. Naldo insulted me and I don't know why. I never said anything bad about Andy but if you want me to, well Andy moves around the court like he has two left feet. There how is that?

BigCrimper
07-21-2003, 11:55 PM
Very interesting, Naldo. I think you have some good points. I do agree that Andy's self belief is a big part of how well he will do.

I disagree somewhat about his movement having improved... to me this is one of the areas where more work is needed.

I completely agree that Andy's shot selection has improved-- but I think under pressure he reverts to some of his old ways. By this I mean that when he was playing Sanguinetti or Bjorkman he picked his shots very well, but at times in the semifinals he went back to trying to end the point too quickly on several instances.

One thing I think that is the most positive about Andy is he gives his all. Now that he's tempering this a bit, I think he can go pretty far.

Sorry this is so long :rolleyes:

heya
07-22-2003, 06:54 AM
Andy needs to stop worshipping his opponents.
A match isn't over yet even when he's down but
gets distracted with doubt, dumps balls into the net, blasts everything wide, makes unaggressive
volleys, and hurries his serves to make aces, not
realizing that some guys could handle his serves.

If he would practice harder with his angle shots -
during serves, backhand and volley, he'd be a top
player. He could beat the number 1 player, which
none of the other guys in the top 5 could do, unless
it's on clay.

Hurley
07-22-2003, 04:16 PM
He could beat the number 1 player, which
none of the other guys in the top 5 could do, unless
it's on clay.

Andy is my favorite player, but even I have to admit that's one of the dumbest statements I've ever seen.

Juan Carlos Ferrero, World #2, beat Agassi on a hard court at the Tennis Masters Cup eight months ago. He can certainly do it now.

Roger Federer, #3 and reigning Wimbledon champion, can certainly beat Agassi on any surface.

Moya, #4, beat Agassi INDOORS in straight sets in the Paris Open eight months ago.

And LOL at #5 Hewitt winning four out of his seven matches against Agassi, all on hardcourt.

Come on, heya. It's people like you (and Brad Gilbert, and Patrick McEnroe) making completely ridiculous statements like that that affect ANDY adversely.

andylover_16
07-22-2003, 04:38 PM
i agree.. his movement was very slack playing against federar.....he was playing very flat footed and he was struggling to get the ball which he had not been doing at all until that semi finals match! :(

andylover_16
07-22-2003, 04:42 PM
so he definitaly needs to work on movement but his mental game has by FAR improved......

Chloe le Bopper
07-23-2003, 05:00 AM
Andy is my favorite player, but even I have to admit that's one of the dumbest statements I've ever seen.

Juan Carlos Ferrero, World #2, beat Agassi on a hard court at the Tennis Masters Cup eight months ago. He can certainly do it now.

Roger Federer, #3 and reigning Wimbledon champion, can certainly beat Agassi on any surface.

Moya, #4, beat Agassi INDOORS in straight sets in the Paris Open eight months ago.

And LOL at #5 Hewitt winning four out of his seven matches against Agassi, all on hardcourt.

Come on, heya. It's people like you (and Brad Gilbert, and Patrick McEnroe) making completely ridiculous statements like that that affect ANDY adversely.
Welll.... that saves me saying it.

Nice thread, btw Naldo. Good topic, despite what others might think ;)

Hurley
07-23-2003, 05:17 AM
Welll.... that saves me saying it.

Yes, we know Andy is your favorite. You don't have to say it. :D

Chloe le Bopper
07-23-2003, 06:34 AM
Yes, we know Andy is your favorite. You don't have to say it. :D
www.feetman.com/index3.html :D

heya
07-23-2003, 08:48 AM
Maybe you're relying too much on results from years ago to judge all these players. Is everyone the same
as last year? Why allow any
opinion made from what's happened this year when you can resort to
pretending that some Andy's fans don't look at the facts before stating an
opinion? I suggest turning down the volume when McEnroes and smug coaches utter nonsense or better yet, ignore my stupid post.

I saw Agassi's hardcourt matches this year, and the other guys
don't compete with him on hardcourt. I wonder why he's
#1. Is it because he played poorly last November or because
he won 18/19 of his hardcourt matches this year? That's better than
last year. If you think I don't look at how consistent he is on
hardcourt, you're ridiculous.

This year, Hewitt doesn't have enough to beat Agassi just like at the U. S. Open.
He's not very consistent on hardcourt against someone like Agassi unless
he can return and serve well- I highly doubt he'll play better than Federer either...or maybe the PAST is the PRESENT! .

Federer hasn't beaten a top returner
like Nalbandian or Agassi yet. Not 1 match.

Ferrero's beaten him on clay, lost in Madrid hardcourt, and won in Shanghai last year in a tie-break, but with Agassi's excellent form on hardcourt, I don't think so.

Moya didn't do well on hardcourt against Agassi, Fish,
Blake and barely got by Ginepri.

Andy has played Agassi 7 times. The last on grass, he won.
On hardcourt, Nov. 2002, in a competitive exhibition, he beat Agassi 6-3, 6-4. In Baltimore Challenge, he beat Agassi on hardcourt.
In Houston, on clay, he didn't close out the match at 6-3, 2-0.
The 4 times between 2000-2002, he lost when he hadn't
improved yet.

andylover_16
07-23-2003, 04:18 PM
gee......who really cares........the only reason agassi wants to stay around is because he is trying to catch up with pete......pfff hes kidding himself on that one.......o and us andy fans could say the same about you agassi fans!!!! :o

heya
07-23-2003, 08:09 PM
Actually, I'm not an Agassi fan.
It depends
on how well everyone plays from now on because so far this year, he's
the one winning on hardcourt easily.

Havok
07-23-2003, 09:04 PM
WHY MUST EVERYONE FUCK UP MY THREADS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :fiery: :fiery: :fiery: :fiery: :fiery: i mean seriously if u got no business being here and cant say anything proper, get the hell out. i dont think i have to name names here, you know who you are, bunch of idiots. find something else better to do with you time why dont you

Chloe le Bopper
07-24-2003, 02:15 PM
Ferrero's beaten him on clay, lost in Madrid hardcourt, and won in Shanghai last year in a tie-break, but with Agassi's excellent form on hardcourt, I don't think so.

That's convenient. So when Ferrero beats Andre, it's because Andre wasn't in good form.... but of course, Ferrero was in fabulous form when he lost to him. Thanks for clarifying...lol



On hardcourt, Nov. 2002, in a competitive exhibition, he beat Agassi 6-3, 6-4. In Baltimore Challenge, he beat Agassi on hardcourt.


Exhibition matches mean shite. Otherwise I could claim that Ferrero has a winning record against both Andre and Pete; he does not. He's nevr really played Pete.


And Naldo - this is a messageboard where we share ideas. If you don't like everybodies ideas, it is you who needs to piss off. Thanks :)

Gonzo Hates Me!
07-24-2003, 09:46 PM
Naldo, haha, it's pretty, not, pleasant, haha

Chloe le Bopper
07-25-2003, 12:22 AM
I meant that with a good deal of love, of course. I fail to understand why people can't disagree in a fan forum without people getting all nutsy. I've never seen this problem in any other fan forums before! Mind you, there aren't all that many active fan forums around here, admittedly.

Chloe le Bopper
07-25-2003, 12:23 AM
Mrs Guga, what's the deal with Janko? Is he hot or something? lol

Gonzo Hates Me!
07-25-2003, 12:55 AM
Rebecca, I agree. I think it's very annoying--all the bickering in this forum. It's not a positive setting. So many things here are taken with salt in the wound... I guess a lot of us here need to chill out

Janko, yeah Becks, he's so hot--and he's my age!!! And he's from a chunk of former Yugoslavia... I still haven't seen him play!

Chloe le Bopper
07-25-2003, 01:44 AM
Rebecca, I agree. I think it's very annoying--all the bickering in this forum. It's not a positive setting. So many things here are taken with salt in the wound... I guess a lot of us here need to chill out

Janko, yeah Becks, he's so hot--and he's my age!!! And he's from a chunk of former Yugoslavia... I still haven't seen him play!
Do you have a picture or two of him so I can judge for myself? I saw some rather nasty quotes that were apaprently his, but no source... so I'm suspicious that anybody would say such things.

btw... i posted on the board on your site. Don't click my name though, as the website i attached might make you crash ;) i didn't think about that before I wrote it, lol

Gonzo Hates Me!
07-25-2003, 02:49 AM
Rebecca, what did he say?!! You can't say that and expect me not to be curious!!!!!! Fuck! Please tell me it's nothing racist.

Here is his junior profile pics:

http://www.*****************/Players/Countries/Yugoslavia/TipsarevicJanko/images/JankoCU4.jpg
http://www.*****************/Players/Countries/Yugoslavia/TipsarevicJanko/images/OB-JT-01.jpg

Okay, this picture scares me! Do you understand it?!
http://www.*****************/Players/Countries/Yugoslavia/TipsarevicJanko/images/JankoBack.jpg
http://www.*****************/Players/Countries/Yugoslavia/TipsarevicJanko/images/OB-JT-01temp.jpg

and here is his official site gallery:

http://www.tipsarevic.com/galerijae.htm

I recommend Janko private


...He's such a bad boy!!! ...Please tell me what he said

heya
07-25-2003, 04:09 AM
Andy's exhibitions mean nothing to the ATP or you, Rebecca, since you didn't exactly want him to win, like when you said you hoped he'd lose
in Wimbledon. Yet, you wanted him to beat Agassi because you liked
Ferrero to get to #1. It doesn't take Einstein to know nobody thinks
exhibitions mean anything.

However, it helps his
confidence everytime he played the top player, that he could win
convincingly. It makes his fans happy. Who cares what the
conceited ATP thinks?

Chloe le Bopper
07-25-2003, 02:25 PM
Rebecca, what did he say?!! You can't say that and expect me not to be curious!!!!!! Fuck! Please tell me it's nothing racist.

No worries, it wasn't racist. Just sexist and homophobic!

Chloe le Bopper
07-25-2003, 02:29 PM
Andy's exhibitions mean nothing to the ATP or you, Rebecca, since you didn't exactly want him to win, like when you said you hoped he'd lose
in Wimbledon. Yet, you wanted him to beat Agassi because you liked
Ferrero to get to #1. It doesn't take Einstein to know nobody thinks
exhibitions mean anything.

Eh? You really need to stop pretending that you know and understand my motives, because I assure you that you have no friggin clue. As for why I apparently "wanted" Roddick to lose at Wimbledon, that is not an appropriate discussion for this forum, so why bring it up? Very ironic that those of you who have a problem with me would go out of your way to bring up negative topics about Andy that were never discussed in here. If you want this to have a positive atmosphere, I would highly reccomend NOT doing that

I will say that I don't like Agassi, though. I'd like just about anybody to beat him at any time....so nice try - again- attempting to uncover my movites but you failed.


However, it helps his
confidence everytime he played the top player, that he could win
convincingly. It makes his fans happy. Who cares what the
conceited ATP thinks?

The conceited ATP? Would you care to elaborate on that? *wonders if her name is now "ATP"*

Gonzo Hates Me!
07-25-2003, 03:49 PM
No worries, it wasn't racist. Just sexist and homophobic!

What did he say!!!!!! Please! Remember, I already lived through diarrhea mouth Lleyton Hewitt. I can take it... and it does soothe me to know that maybe he didn't say it, but I still wanna know

Chloe le Bopper
07-25-2003, 07:36 PM
What did he say!!!!!! Please! Remember, I already lived through diarrhea mouth Lleyton Hewitt. I can take it... and it does soothe me to know that maybe he didn't say it, but I still wanna know
Well I remind you mrs guga, that there is no source for these quotes. Somebody posted them in the WTAWorld thread "Players/Posters you are sick of" or something like that. They are also posted on my board, in the mens tennis forum under something like "Snotso Tips....". So you can check either of those places for exact quotes... but to paraphase, he said:

1 - I used to really like Andre, then he married Steffi and I found that very dissapointing.
2 - Anna is pretty, but not that pretty. It's just that other female players are so ugly.
3 - I know there are some gay men on tour, so i just try to avoid them. As for the women, everybody knows that Amelie is a "pervert".

Gonzo Hates Me!
07-25-2003, 07:40 PM
Well I remind you mrs guga, that there is no source for these quotes. Somebody posted them in the WTAWorld thread "Players/Posters you are sick of" or something like that. They are also posted on my board, in the mens tennis forum under something like "Snotso Tips....". So you can check either of those places for exact quotes... but to paraphase, he said:

1 - I used to really like Andre, then he married Steffi and I found that very dissapointing.
2 - Anna is pretty, but not that pretty. It's just that other female players are so ugly.
3 - I know there are some gay men on tour, so i just try to avoid them. As for the women, everybody knows that Amelie is a "pervert".

Omigod, that's horrible... I agree about the Anna thing though. If she cut her hair, there would be no obsession. She's overrated

Janko does seem very cocky. I would be intimidated to meet him

Chloe le Bopper
07-25-2003, 08:14 PM
Omigod, that's horrible... I agree about the Anna thing though. If she cut her hair, there would be no obsession. She's overrated

Janko does seem very cocky. I would be intimidated to meet him
Yes, Anna is all about the hair. If it wasn't long, flowing, and beautiful, she would just be "cute". Not a big deal at all.

Gonzo Hates Me!
07-25-2003, 08:15 PM
I went to your forum and I posted in the thread against him! WHY, he was so perfect until THIS. Well, I will still like him--I can't just suddenly not. I don't know if and/or how he said those things, so I am gonna give him the benefit of the doubt

Chloe le Bopper
07-25-2003, 08:18 PM
As am I, unless somebody provides a source.

Dirk
07-25-2003, 10:41 PM
about the JC and Agassi matches. JC outplayed him in RG and Cup and Andre in Madrid. They were all good matches. They both played well in all encounters. I like this matchup, much better than Andre playing Andy or Hewitt. I would like to see this as a Open semi or final.

Fumus
09-15-2004, 03:39 PM
bump...

Naldo has been aronud forever and Dirk was the same old guy...man...old threads are soo much fun...has Andy improved since wimbly 2002? Discuss..

J. Corwin
09-15-2004, 05:30 PM
Trophy man is nostalgic..;)

Yea I'd say just about everything has improved as his backhand and volleys (generally) are no longer :retard: He's improved his footspeed too.

Fumus
09-15-2004, 05:31 PM
yea, I think he should bring more fire back into his game...

J. Corwin
09-15-2004, 05:34 PM
I agree and disagree. He may have lot a little bit of that fire but I think that is also why he's been bringing in the bigger results in 2003 and 2004. As long as he keeps his head screwed on and don't let linecalls bother him so much (he still has some probs) then AWESOME.

Fumus
09-15-2004, 05:37 PM
I think when I look at these old threads and Andy was soo explosive and feiry, in 2002, he loved the crowd and got into it with them. If he does that, he can beat anyone(including Fed)! The crowds can lift you up to play out of your mind.

Deboogle!.
09-15-2004, 10:49 PM
Andy is still struggling to find that right balance IMO...

heya
09-15-2004, 10:58 PM
Of course it's a struggle to meet the expectations of Mr. Hope Gilbert.
I read that Andy's mom enjoyed the book "Winning Ugly." :devil::scared:

superpinkone37
09-16-2004, 03:15 AM
Andy is still struggling to find that right balance IMO...

yeah, i think so too. also he has improved a lot...but he is no where near perfect. he still has much to work on and he needs to really find his game IMO...he hasnt been impressing me very recently

Havok
09-16-2004, 03:46 AM
What I find he's lacking and what's hurting him the most is decisions of when to stay in a rally and not go for anything and make your opponents hit the error, while you go more for placement and moving them around, and when to get the first strike of the ball. To me if he has to play one style and one style only, obviously his first strike attacking tennis owns (he's a pretty decent defence player/scrambler for someone his size, but he won't win matches being a passive little shit) He has to find the right combo of offence and defence, though he's really got to become more aggressive ( some of his most recent losses is because he was a :retard: and let things happen on the court where he had no control over and that isn't the Roddick tennis we're so used to;)) To find that balance is prob one of the most dificult things to do in tennis because you gotta go with your instincts and with what you're feeling atm, and if you happen to be indecicive, you'll be hitting some of the most attrocious shots ever.:o Anyways for that he'll need some time, but he's working out his kinks in his game and it's rounding out nicely imo.

heya
09-16-2004, 03:51 AM
Look what I found at Google::spit:
Knobbick is the male version of Serena Williams, with added annoying
idiosyncrasies (sticking his arse out for the gay boys, puffing up his cheeks

Havok
09-16-2004, 03:53 AM
Oh the silly things you find at google.:silly:

star
09-16-2004, 03:57 AM
Look what I found at Google::spit:
Knobbick is the male version of Serena Williams, with added annoying
idiosyncrasies (sticking his arse out for the gay boys, puffing up his cheeks

I think it's nice of Andy to stick out his arse for the gay boys. :)

superpinkone37
09-16-2004, 03:57 AM
yeah naldo youre right. he needs to be able to have more versatitlity as well, and he needs to be able to stay in those rallies if for example he's producing errors off his big forehand.

its kinda funny cuz thats exactly what my coach is telling me that i am doing wrong. i have the big forehand and the hard shots but when theyre not working for me, or the other pesron can hit the big shots more consistently than i am, i have a tendency to his it as hard as i can and end the point. thats my problem and the biggest thing he's working on with me is getting me to be more paitience and rally the point out, only going for the bigger shot later in the rally. i hate playing like that, but you know what, i have swept my last threee matches at school so i guess its working

Havok
09-16-2004, 04:01 AM
Always thinking of others.:lol:

Deboogle!.
09-16-2004, 04:31 AM
AWESOME, Danielle! Keep up that streak! :woohoo:

superpinkone37
09-16-2004, 04:38 AM
thanks Deb :) :hug: well....i will try :)

heya
09-16-2004, 04:43 AM
I'm heartbroken. :tears: Look at all the worry about the Great One:]

Personally, i don't see him winning either 14
> slams or the career Grand Slam.

Doesn't tell much. You personally didn't see him winning three slams this
year either. He's the only guy out there who has a fair chance to do both.

I don't think he quite has the skills to do
> the latter and i don't think he has the Lendlish, uber-dedication long-run
> mindset needed for the former.

I'm not sure he'll win the next FO either, but it's silly to question his
claycourt skills. Only one week before this year's FO he won the Masters
series German Open beating a field of clay specialists including Coria in a
best-of-five final.

Deboogle!.
09-16-2004, 04:45 AM
:lol:

heya
09-16-2004, 05:21 AM
After losing today Andy cracked jokes about
wanting to see where Hewitt's sister would sit. He's overdoing the
nice-guy thing & needs to get some mongrel in him (ala Jimbo/Hewitt).

He seems to get over big losses a bit too quickly - like 2 seconds after
mp. That's not good as it suggests a loser's mentality.

Roddick has the firepower to make a great rivalry, so hopefully he can
>get a little more consistent next yr....

uhhhh no

the bigger guys like safin,johansson and karlovic might have a chance
against federer..especially johansson if he can develop a backhand LMAO!!

Deboogle!.
09-16-2004, 05:27 AM
I don't think Andy gets over his losses as fast as he pretends to. I think he likes to try to put on a game face for the reporters and stuff but I think the losses get to him for a while. I mean he did delay his USO press conference by a fair amount b/c he was doing his laps under the stadium right after.

Dirk
09-16-2004, 05:36 AM
He said he thought about his Wimbly lost every day when he woke up for a week. Sounded very much like Rafter after he lost his 2nd Wimbly final in a row. :sad:

heya
09-16-2004, 06:05 AM
What you keep forgetting, and what everyone has been trying to tell you for
> months now is, Roddick simply isnt that good. He is too one note to be a great
> player. He is a couple of slams, then off to oblivian. I can see him winning
> an Australian or maybe another US Open, when Federer is beaten by someone
> else.....but thats it for the talent level he has.
>

Don't be dumb. Tennis scene can change rapidly....


> Maybe one day he will learn to harness his power, and actually create a
> game...but right now, he is a fastball pitcher with nothing to fall back on.
> People keep comparing him to Michael Chang, but who he actually is, is Jim
> Courier. Courier won with fitness and a devastating forhand. Roddick wins
> with a serve and all out power on his groundies.When the better players of his
> generation figured out how to beat him, it was all over for poor Jim...its
> already happening to Roddick...


Even Fed lost to David last yr. You're clueless if
you think Roddick is ordinary....

Agassi was about the only player that could compete with Pete during
> his hay days. I thought that Hewitt might be the "Agassi" to Federer.
> After todays blow out, it is hard to see Hewitt really taking Federer
> to the extremes.

Well said. I'd say Hewitt was in submission even before the match
started, his usually common's missing. Perhaps out of respect for Roger,
perhaps because of several bagels in latest 3 matches.


Maybe Roddick is the only player left now that can
> pose a real challenge to Federer over the next year or so. Time will
> tell.

Perhaps. But I am looking forward to Berdych to get in top ten.

Fumus
09-16-2004, 03:25 PM
I still think Andy should improve the relationship he has with the crowd. He needs to get into it with them more...ala Chela 2001, I think he needs to stay more positive on court. I think he could improve his fitness level for sure. The biggest thing for him, I still think is, bringing the "A" game when he has to and keeping it in B or C mode the rest of the time, ala Pete Sampras and now Roger Federer. If Andy can do that, I still think he can beat Fed occasionally. His backhand has gotten better but, I think if he is really serious about getting it to be awesome, he should see a specialist on it. If Andy can make his ground game as devistating as his serve, he can beat anybody!

tangerine_dream
09-16-2004, 03:35 PM
heya, where are all those quotes from? where do you find this stuff? :lol:

You know, Andy's volleying during the Nadal match was actually pretty good (I rewatched it last night). He didn't do enough of that during the Pimmy match. Oh, well. Hindsight is 20/20. I'm glad he ran laps after he lost. It shows he cares and that he's pissed at himself and that it'll be eating at him for a while. It should.

Fumus
09-16-2004, 03:37 PM
ewww..Tangy why soo mean!?

martirogi
09-16-2004, 03:38 PM
Andy has improved in hotness

Fumus
09-16-2004, 03:45 PM
incorrect.

I am dude and all. So I guess my opinions are just guess but, his look in 2002 was the coolest. Spikey hair and all...that's why I started to like Andy.

tangerine_dream
09-16-2004, 03:45 PM
I'm not being mean. I'm just saying I'm glad he's mad at himself for losing matches he shouldn't be losing.

Fumus
09-16-2004, 03:46 PM
Sure Tangy...I know after he loses you are poking the Andy voodoo doll you have with pins.

heya
09-16-2004, 10:27 PM
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=rec.sport.tennis

The Newsgroup's like Tennis Warehouse Forum, but there are knowledgeable Andy fans.
MTF has easily-threatened, paranoid, hemorrhoid-suffering, uptight, ignorant Swiss Cheese-eating babies.:baby:muhahaha

Deboogle!.
09-16-2004, 10:34 PM
...I'm glad he's mad at himself for losing matches he shouldn't be losing.

Me too. Let's see the fruits of the anger next year, though.

As I said before... if he doesn't seriously improve his clay results next year I think I'll be in the market for a new favorite player.

heya
09-17-2004, 12:21 AM
Brad's Brad's favorite fan!!!!
Andy isn't improving on grass or hardcourt either.

I don't see a guy who loves to win every point against anyone (especially those he worships).

IMO, he's being told daily that:
-he can't play at net,
-can't use both 1-handed/2-handed backhands,
-can't hit angles,
-can't serve slower with great placement.
Seems like everyone in the world believes that.
I've seen him do every shot.
Some people have seen him hit fast 1-handed bhs with no problem.
U win when u control the pts with the bh.

When he's playing in less friendly places:
( grass & indoor courts)
he needs to serve less than 130 mph so he can volley/use angles/drop shot.
Instead, he just serves without looking where the ball will land. Just hit hard.
Great coaching, right? X's and O's LMAO

Who cares about staying quiet & focused when it's easier to be a drama queen?
Andy said he was "over-the-top," but he doesn't care anymore.
From interviews I've seen/read, his family doesn't mind.
He's afraid to look serious 'cuz the media/fans will put
more pressure on him to be a #1 Champ again.

Charity, WTT, Davis Cup, his teammates & Olympics are bigger priorities for him.

Playing a lot in Europe/South America & working on important techniques are
too TOUGH for him because tennis ISN'T his life. He isn't serious at USO either!!!:eek:
Other guys breathe for tennis & most of them won't win a Slam!

heya
09-17-2004, 01:59 AM
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/viewtopic.php?t=19320&start=15&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
Drop shot serve.

Fumus
09-17-2004, 12:37 PM
wow that forum is the schanip-schanap-schanickity-bing-bang

Fedex
09-18-2004, 12:03 AM
I think when I look at these old threads and Andy was soo explosive and feiry, in 2002, he loved the crowd and got into it with them. If he does that, he can beat anyone(including Fed)! The crowds can lift you up to play out of your mind.
Thats absoulute bullshit! :bs: Getting the crowd into it, and doing what he used to do is not going to win you matches, more often it will lose you matches. And, certainly against Federer that wont work, it will only hurt Andy. Roger proved by winning the Open, that pro-American crowds wont stop him from winning the match. :rolleyes: :o. Roger also has a little habit of taking the breath awayf from the crowd win he's beating their player. Plus, its not as though Andy has much to cheer about when he's playing Federer. :p

Deboogle!.
09-18-2004, 12:13 AM
just a friendly reminder

http://www.mninter.net/~richard/Please%20do%20not%20feed%20the%20trolls.jpg

Fedex
09-18-2004, 12:21 AM
just a friendly reminder

http://www.mninter.net/~richard/Please%20do%20not%20feed%20the%20trolls.jpg
And also a friendly reminder to bunk, to get a life. :o :haha: :rolls: Geez almost 18,000 posts already. :o Didnt you have 15000 a couple days ago? :confused:

Deboogle!.
09-18-2004, 12:26 AM
crap! and i was making a sandwich and everything!

i apologize for the above dorkiness..

Well if it was something good you could just eat it yourself and have it for dinner :p :rolls:

Jennay
09-18-2004, 12:29 AM
http://www.mninter.net/~richard/Please%20do%20not%20feed%20the%20trolls.jpg http://www.mninter.net/~richard/Please%20do%20not%20feed%20the%20trolls.jpg http://www.mninter.net/~richard/Please%20do%20not%20feed%20the%20trolls.jpg http://www.mninter.net/~richard/Please%20do%20not%20feed%20the%20trolls.jpg http://www.mninter.net/~richard/Please%20do%20not%20feed%20the%20trolls.jpg http://www.mninter.net/~richard/Please%20do%20not%20feed%20the%20trolls.jpg



:kiss: :kiss:

tangerine_dream
09-18-2004, 12:30 AM
Agassi was about the only player that could compete with Pete during his hay days. I thought that Hewitt might be the "Agassi" to Federer. After todays blow out, it is hard to see Hewitt really taking Federer to the extremes.

Andy has certainly improved over the past year. Roger cannot run over Andy the way he did to Lleyton in the USO final. Everyone knows that Lleyton doesn't stand a chance against Roger, but with Andy--even though Roger owns him--you get the feeling that the ownership has an expiration date. ;) Nobody is as naturally gifted as Roger and Roger is the top standard of playing today, but Andy is hardly a one-note player and even Roger himself said so.

And Lleyton is "Agassi" to Roger's "Pete" the day Fedex the Eunuch Troll gives birth to an original thought.

Fedex
09-18-2004, 12:35 AM
Andy has certainly improved over the past year. Roger cannot run over Andy the way he did to Lleyton in the USO final. Everyone knows that Lleyton doesn't stand a chance against Roger, but with Andy--even though Roger owns him--you get the feeling that the ownership has an expiration date. ;) Nobody is as naturally gifted as Roger and Roger is the top standard of playing today, but Andy is hardly a one-note player and even Roger himself said so.

And Lleyton is "Agassi" to Roger's "Pete" the day Fedex the Eunuch Troll gives birth to an original thought.
And the day that tangerinus makes a post that has an ounce of value in it, is the day that FreddyFucker finds a brain, or Bunk a life. :haha: :rolls: :lol:

tangerine_dream
09-18-2004, 01:42 AM
LOL. See what I mean? I can always tell what the Special of the Day is in the Nalby forum. "Marc", Sigma and the other twats over there spend all their time talking about Andy and his fans, and brainstorm trying to come up with pompous, knee-slapping insults to call us ("Tangerinus" is the hot one that they've all picked up on, I noticed).

Poor Fedex, who's never had an original thought in his life and feels left out of the creative process, immediately picks up on these new schoolyard taunts and, hoping to make an impression on all the big kids, uses the new catchphrases over and over again, in every post he can work them into. Never mind the fact that he can never back up any of his lame arguments with any hard facts; I've ripped him to shreds so many times that he's reduced to being a yapping mite. His bravado in the Nalby forum is hilarious ("Tangerinus is just lucky that I won't be messing with her today!!!!" :fiery: :fiery: :mad: ) His only argument is whatever GWH feeds him. Yes, Fedex, I know that you will get back to me on that. Just as soon as you confer with GWH on what to say next.

The sad part for trolls like him is that they have no backup plan when it all explodes in their face. I've called the Dickless One on his :bs: numerous times and even PM'd him. I never, ever got an intelligent response from him. The next thing I know, he's running back to the Nalby forum to hide behind his Sugarmomma Sigma's skirts, "Waaa! Sigma! That evil Tangy is picking on me again, AND she's insulting David, make her stop!" And like a sheep taking its cue from the sheepdog, Sigma huffs and puffs and goes to try to fight Fedex's battles for him. I can only pity him; it's got to be the lowest form of human existence when you have no balls, no scruples, and no clue of your own. :sad:

But these sad sacks are predictable and at times, entertaining. Watch now: the troll will come back here and say something that came straight out of GWH's or somebody else's mouth. I'll even be able to trace it right back to them. :haha:

Dirk
09-18-2004, 03:47 AM
Roger defends Andy only in the sense that the tour is not being taken over by power players. He cites Andy as the only top player to be a power player. Andy like everyone else needs Rogi to be off and even that is not a sure bet for victory (See Wimbledon Final 04) Rogi just does too many things better out there on the court than Andy does and that won't change. If they both stay healthy Andy likely will win a few more matches but if you think Andy will catch up to Rogi like Mac caught up to Borg then you can forget about it. Mac's talent is still timeless. I doubt highly the same will be said about Andy.

Captain Obvious
09-18-2004, 04:45 AM
Andy doesn't really need to be that far behind the baseline, when he is rallying. While the backhand has improved a lot, it still needs improving, but he is fortunate in the way that not many players are that competent at the net, so they can't exploit his weakness on the backhand pass on the run.

To be fair, he has made improvements, but he could definitely get quicker and while just holding serve easily, then relying on his opponent to fold on serve because of his service power, works against the lower ranked players, he needs to imrpove his return of service as well.

heya
09-18-2004, 05:50 AM
Wonderful people with no scruples. :eek:

"THEIR is nothing wrong with my English.

I really hope English isnt you're 1st language, then maybe you'll have somewhat of an excuse for you're stupidity.

I never said and pretend to be a nice poster. Thats not my style. I will be as mean and nasty, as I see fit, to deal with trolls such as Freddy." FEDEX

Andy tripped on a wet, slippery court.
"No excuses! Fed fans make no excuses," FEDEX
:secret:"Ignore excuses that Fed fans give for his losses!"

"Trolls are not like us!
You don't make sense because u speak 2+ languages.
We speak & spell perfectly. We don't know other languages!" FEDEX & Sigmagirl

Fed & Nalby had English mistakes too! NOOOOO way! ;)

Marc Rosset is Tall
09-18-2004, 08:24 AM
This is off topic.

LOL. See what I mean? I can always tell what the Special of the Day is in the Nalby forum. "Marc", Sigma and the other twats over there spend all their time talking about Andy and his fans, and brainstorm trying to come up with pompous, knee-slapping insults to call us ("Tangerinus" is the hot one that they've all picked up on, I noticed).

Be honoured that the name "Tangerinus" has some credibility and longevity and it's not insulting.

It's Ok, considering that I don't particular like or have any respect for your posts, you still provide plenty of entertainment value and hence your foibles are top notch. Personally I know I am far from the most intelligent poster at MTF, but at least I can come up with my own conclusions from experience and various credible sources, example trying to show that you had an understanding of an issue, like football hooliganism, when never having actually experienced a situation like that and not totally understanding a concept, yet just produce that and without any critical thinking of the information to believe that's fact. Granted I don't know everything about it, but the comments were ill-informed.

Marc Rosset is Tall
09-18-2004, 08:31 AM
Andy has made plenty of strides, though the rate of improvement could only slow down after the initial impact of Gilbert being hired as coach. How many people realisitically thought that he could repeat that unbelievable run that he had in 2003?

Sure, there should be disappointment that he didn't win that match against Johansson and go further in his defence of the US Open, but why doesn't he use his massive kick serve more to get his opponents out of position and not try for the 400km/h serve. If he is serious about improving he should play a longer claycourt season as well, instead of letting Gilbert's fear of clay rub off on him. He has actually regressed from when he first went on tour on clay.

Captain, those are good observations.

Neely
09-18-2004, 08:39 AM
I believe Andy will do much better on clay next season (Europe). You (Marc) are right that his play on clay is not good enough, but clay is not everything and Andy's game is still good enough to win various titles on many other different surfaces. I think he will never be able to beat the top claycourters on clay consistently, but I think he should be at least able to get to a few 3rd rounds or Quarterfinals if playing some the European claycourt season. I think he will take that next step, I hope for that. I hope he at least tries! :)

Dirk
09-18-2004, 08:44 AM
I don't think the desire is really there for Andy to improve. He has plenty of weapons to succeed on clay but not the patience, tactics, and movement. it will take more than a season or two to greatly improve upon those things. Not sure if Andy wishes to really dig deep. I think he is just comfortable winning a lot on hardcourts and grass. He should be very good on indoors too.

Neely
09-18-2004, 08:50 AM
yes, Dirk, but he could at least play all the clay Masters events and instead of losing in the 1st round he can definitely do better and win a few rounds there. And I think he will show that next year.
Sure was Andy's clay season in 2004 very bad, but I just don't like it when some people categorically says "blablabla, Roddick is so pathetic on clay", but they forget that Andy already has four clay titles at three different venues and that he does better than almost everybody on all other surfaces. :shrug: It's always the same :rolleyes:

Marc Rosset is Tall
09-18-2004, 08:52 AM
I believe Andy will do much better on clay next season (Europe). You (Marc) are right that his play on clay is not good enough, but clay is not everything and Andy's game is still good enough to win various titles on many other different surfaces. I think he will never be able to beat the top claycourters on clay consistently, but I think he should be at least able to get to a few 3rd rounds or Quarterfinals if playing some the European claycourt season. I think he will take that next step, I hope for that. I hope he at least tries! :)

Sure he can do the business on the hardcourts and is very good on grass, but since he is one of the top players, his record on clay is very poor indeed and should strive to improve his results on the surface, and then he will go some way to gaining more respect within the tennis community, instead of just a brainless basher who succeeds on faster surfaces, even the other guys like McEnroe, Edberg, Stich, Sampras had won some big clay events and Becker made finals of these, that is something Andy will not do or not very likely to do.

Dirk, that's true as well, he seems except for Queens to be a bit of a homer. He should be outstanding indoors with those weapons.

Marc Rosset is Tall
09-18-2004, 08:57 AM
I just don't like it when everybody categorically says "blablabla, Roddick is so pathetic on clay", but they forget that Andy already has four clay titles at three different venues and that he does better than almost everybody on all other surfaces. :shrug: It's always the same :rolleyes:

Ok, he is ordinary on clay and Andy will say that himself, and that's a problem for him already. Ok, Becker has never won a claycourt title, but he was a much better on clay than Roddick, in addition he won St. Polten, which was a very weak field, and his other wins were in the USA, and that's where the top claycourt players don't play, hence he has the reputation that his results are inflated on the surface.

His best wins on the surface would be Gonzalez, Coria (just came back from a drug ban) and an old Chang.

Neely
09-18-2004, 08:59 AM
okay, Marc... that's of course true if you want to see it from that angle. You win ;)

Dirk
09-18-2004, 09:05 AM
Andy, I doubt will ever win a clay master and if he spent time playing in small events in Europe then I think he would gain a lot of respect. Andy maybe could make a RG qrt given the right draw and if there are a few upsets but I don't see him doing it. He just will fold and never pay much attention to it. Why should he when he is a top player without respectable clay results?? That is what his mindset will likely be and in some aspects I can't blame him if he does adopt that thinking which I think he will. Still those extra points he could possibly gain on clay could help him in the rankings.

Marc Rosset is Tall
09-18-2004, 09:05 AM
okay, Marc... that's of course true if you want to see it from that angle. You win ;)

It's not a question of winning at all. We are having an objective discussion about Roddick's game and I took all these factors into it, considering everything that's why I came to that conclusion.

At the same time, it says something that he is #2 and there are still some technical deficinces that are clear, but the strengths he has means especially on a hardcourt, these are very hard to exploit.

I am surprised that he hasn't done better indoors.

Dirk
09-18-2004, 09:10 AM
Same here Marc. Maybe he will snag a indoor master and maybe that will calm down the Andy fans who think Andy has had a terrible year. :rolleyes:

Neely
09-18-2004, 09:21 AM
Same here Marc. Maybe he will snag a indoor master and maybe that will calm down the Andy fans who think Andy has had a terrible year. :rolleyes:
Dirk, although I guess it's not the majority, I believe the same of some spoiled Federer fans would occur next year if Roger wins "only" two Grand Slams in 2005. I think that you have to see that by different standards. I would be glad if Kiwi had the results of Andy's season for example. And because Kiefer was so bad the last years, I'm already pleased as Punch that Kiefer was playing so well this season because it's an improvement. Andy's season is still one of the greatest on the Tour, but of course it's not as great as last season.... easy to understand IMO ;)


damn, that reminds me somehow of an interesting discussion when I was trying to explain George during the Euro why a team like Greece or Latvia in soccer can easier succeed and fulfill their own so-called "realistic goals", than a heavy favorite like Italy or France. :lol:

Neely
09-18-2004, 09:24 AM
It's not a question of winning at all. We are having an objective discussion about Roddick's game and I took all these factors into it, considering everything that's why I came to that conclusion.
no problem, I know how you meant it...

Dirk
09-18-2004, 09:25 AM
If Rogi won two slams next year I would be in heaven. :)

Marc Rosset is Tall
09-18-2004, 09:28 AM
damn, that reminds me somehow of an interesting discussion when I was trying to explain George during the Euro why a team like Greece or Latvia in soccer can easier succeed and fulfill their own so-called "realistic goals", than a heavy favorite like Italy or France. :lol:

He doesn't exist does he? Two surprise football results in 12 years don't give credence to that point of view.

Back to the topic, it depends on how people look at it Andy hasn't had a bad year at all, and the whole Fed expectation is over the top he is not going to be consistently winning 3 Slams annually. There are always years where there is a levelling off or a slight decrease, but as I said earlier not many people expected Roddick to have the same results like the 2003 summer.

Tactically, he really needs to improve and sure he is not going to play like Agassi on or inside the baseline, but he can move into the court. Should serve/volley more often than he does, with that weapon serve of his, not all the time, just more often.

Neely
09-18-2004, 09:30 AM
If Rogi won two slams next year I would be in heaven. :)
exactly, you should be :yeah: and this season would still be AWESOME ... but I'm sure we will see also many threads like "why did Federer not defend his Wimbledon title for the third year?", "why did Roger lose a Grand Slam final this year?" and similiar things like that ;)... it's normal, because Roger has a huge spectrum of different fans and the majority of people tend to messure somebody's performance by a reference year, most likely the previous one :shrug:

Dirk
09-18-2004, 09:36 AM
Problem is he jsut has to work on being a good volleyer because when he gets passed or makes some errors at the net he doesn't come in much more than. Great volleyers like Jonas, Tim, and Rogi will just keep at it. Again I think people need to stop having such high expectations for Andy. Like I said before let's say Andy wins 5 slams (3 Opens, 2 Ozs) along with plenty of other titles. Would Andy fans be upset or happy? Just need to stop with the fantasy and learn to appreciate the success your player enjoys.

Marc Rosset is Tall
09-18-2004, 09:42 AM
That's interesting I mean he is a realistic chance of winning 3 of the Slams. I think the US Open will be the one that he wins the most, the Aus Open might be a problem, because the surface is slower, though he has shown plenty of potential to win there, and he can win Wimbledon, though will he.

What would be satisfactory as results go for Andy, how many TMS titles and Slams would he need to fulfill his potential? He has a realistic chance in 6 of them, and by the end of his career it would be surprising if he didn't win one of the big indoor events.

Dirk
09-18-2004, 09:42 AM
When that poster made that stupid thread of Andy and Rogi disaster times ahead, I just ignored it and rolled my eyes. No matter how great Rogi turns out to be he will suffer big losses just like every other great. I do hope he wins Wimbly next year because then he would be only the 3rd man to win wimby 3 years in a row next to Borg and Pete. :) Also if he could pick up Rg I would be :) :) :) I wouldn't care if he didn't win a slam the following year then. :)

Dirk
09-18-2004, 09:48 AM
I would be a little shocked if andy didn't win an indoor master this year. I just hope Rogi picks up one and his basel event.

Marc Rosset is Tall
09-18-2004, 09:49 AM
That thread was a joke, because it was making fun of the people with unrealistic expectations of their favourites, and that is for everyone. I mean Andy hasn't had a bad year, it's fine for people if they can discuss the subject and not just post knee-jerk reactions. It's tennis it's not that serious, if Roger doesn't win 3 Slams, then there will be saying that he is washed up and the allure is over.

With Andy and volleying, he doesn't have to look good, it has to be effective and on the forehand on the serve, he will get plenty of weak replies and they should be easy put aways, and if he gets passed, it happens, that's when he shouldn't always go into the shell.

Dirk
09-18-2004, 09:50 AM
The first page or two was serious then it became funny.

Deboogle!.
09-18-2004, 03:33 PM
I believe Andy will do much better on clay next season (Europe). You (Marc) are right that his play on clay is not good enough, but clay is not everything and Andy's game is still good enough to win various titles on many other different surfaces. I think he will never be able to beat the top claycourters on clay consistently, but I think he should be at least able to get to a few 3rd rounds or Quarterfinals if playing some the European claycourt season. I think he will take that next step, I hope for that. I hope he at least tries! :)

I completely agree. I've said a couple times on this board that if Andy does not post a better clay season I'll be in the market for a new fave. I'm getting frustrated with him. He was supposed to do better this past year and, with the assistance of some good old-fashioned shit happening, he didn't. Brad has been quoted several places as saying something to the effect of "next year we'll plan it better" (in reference to the clay season), so I am expecting (and hoping against all hope) that he does not play Houston and stays in Europe for the whole stretch.

I think Andy wants to improve on clay because he's a competitive person and every time he steps on the court, he wants to win. If he wants to win on clay, he's not stupid and he knows he has to get better. The first thing he has to do is try to BELIEVE he can do it. He's a confidence player and when his belief drops just the littlest bit, it makes a big difference in his game. That's why he plays better typically in houston (aside from the quality of his opponents there;)), he doesn't feel uncomfortable at that clay tourney like he does in Europe. But it's really time he gets over this, it's getting old ;)

As for indoor, Andy had a better indoor season (Madrid notwithstanding:o), considering how tired he was after the USO. I would expect him to contend for at least one of the three indoor titles this fall, there's no reason why he shouldn't do well there.

I can only say for myself, but the reason I am disappointed with andy's season is not because he hasn't won more titles and not becaue he hasn't won a slam but because I feel like his game has regressed as the year went on, and because he has lost big matches that I believe he shouldn't have won. I'm ok when he gets outplayed. I'm not ok when he loses a close 3- or 5- setter that he should have won. And that happened a lot this year. I'm not happy that the calming down he exhibited last year has somewhat gone away. I think he's still mentally more even-keeled than he was a year and a half ago, but not a year ago. He's letting things get to him again and I don't like that, and he's more often acting like a baby on court and I never like to see that from any player. I feel like the improvements in his backhand and return have somehow diminished. The only thing I'm seeing that has consistently improved and IMO stayed there, is his commitment on trying to come to net a little more and I think his volleying is completely improved. His movement is also much improved. But other than that I feel like a lot of improvements he has made have regressed and that makes this year somewhat of a disappointment.

But I'd rather Andy have a "disappointing" year and finish #2 or #3 than most of the alternatives. And as has been said, there are still 4 tournaments left in the year, all of which on paper he should be a favorite for. He could also do well, if this happens, to not embarrass himself in the DC final against Spain. I don't expect him to beat either Ferrero or Moya on clay in Spain but he could at least put up a good fight and show he can compete with them.

tangerine_dream
09-18-2004, 03:46 PM
bunk :worship: And don't forget that Andy does have some clay titles to his name, so he's not a complete lost cause on the stuff, irregardless of what the haters may think. :o

You must spread some reputation around before giving it to bunk again

I'll have to whore around before I can rep you for that great post, bunkie :wavey:

Deboogle!.
09-18-2004, 03:53 PM
:lol:

I dunno, IMO Andy still sucks on clay and what happened at RG just proved that even further. I do however, believe it stems from mentality first, and problems with his game second. If he believed he could play on clay, he'd be able to beat a lot of people he loses to on clay. That might not help him against Coria or Ferrero or other good clay-courters but if he had had some confidence, he would have put Mutis away in 3 or 4. Everyone always talks about his patience, and I agree. But when he's uptight and jumpy and unhappy about being on clay to begin with, he's not exactly going to be at his most patient.

It's funny to me that Andy thought he sucked on grass, then Brad comes on board and says "no you don't, you're gonna go 12-0" and he ends up going 10-1... why can't he just trick himself into believing he loves clay too :lol:

IMO, houston doesn't really count. Yes it's on clay but the way he's treated there, like an absolute KING, it's no surprise that he comes and plays well because his entire family is there with him, he's treated like a rock star, and the quality of players is seriously lacking (especially clay-courters). His Atlanta title was on green clay, and St. Poelten had a pretty bad field, though it is important for him b/c it was his first title outside the US. He proved to himself that he's capable of playing ok in Europe lol

But he IS capable of playing on clay. It's odd to me that his best clay year was in 2002. He made the SF at Rome and 3rd round at the other two Masters. It can probably be chalked up to the fact that it was his first time and he was playing with no pressure. but if he did it once he can do it again.

superpinkone37
09-18-2004, 04:45 PM
those were a couple of great posts :worship:
and you have already said pretty much everything i think lol

RoddickBabe10
09-18-2004, 11:32 PM
I've said a couple times on this board that if Andy does not post a better clay season I'll be in the market for a new fave. I'm getting frustrated with him. He was supposed to do better this past year and, with the assistance of some good old-fashioned shit happening, he didn't. Brad has been quoted several places as saying something to the effect of "next year we'll plan it better" (in reference to the clay season), so I am expecting (and hoping against all hope) that he does not play Houston and stays in Europe for the whole stretch.
I completely agree with you and understand your frustration. Personally, I'm getting tired of their excuses (Andy's and Brad's). Andy is no doubt my favorite but I don't know, maybe I am just expecting a lot more from him than I should or he could do. And hopefully he steps up a couple knotches next year. And I totally agree with you "expecting (and hoping against all hope) that he does not play Houston and stays in Europe for the whole stretch".:worship:

He could also do well, if this happens, to not embarrass himself in the DC final against Spain. I don't expect him to beat either Ferrero or Moya on clay in Spain but he could at least put up a good fight and show he can compete with them.
I totally agree. I think it's just this psychological effect on him that he can't do well in clay, or to any other Americans for that matter.

Great post, Bunk as always! lol :worship: :worship:
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to bunk18bsb again.

heya
09-19-2004, 09:04 PM
How do you not suck if you rarely ever train or compete on clay/grass/carpet,etc.?

Add to that,
the Guru is as talented in tennis as Andy's parents and his belief in Andy is about as
strong as Schalken's serve.
The salary is pretty high, so no complaints from either ignorant side.;)

I bet Andy's dad is snoring right now.


Hi Lee, are you finding Ducksters' posts entertaining enough?
You sure love being a spy for the cult, right, honey?

Fumus
09-20-2004, 06:23 PM
Thats absoulute bullshit! :bs: Getting the crowd into it, and doing what he used to do is not going to win you matches, more often it will lose you matches. And, certainly against Federer that wont work, it will only hurt Andy. Roger proved by winning the Open, that pro-American crowds wont stop him from winning the match. :rolleyes: :o. Roger also has a little habit of taking the breath awayf from the crowd win he's beating their player. Plus, its not as though Andy has much to cheer about when he's playing Federer. :p

You are the opposite of your favorite when you post. All emotion. Although Dirk and I disagree, atleast he isn't as emotional as you. This is something I admire about Dirk. He is more like Roger and less like you. ;)

heya
09-22-2004, 01:00 AM
Roddick hit the single hugest forehand I've ever seen. It was on court 1 at the US Open during qualifiers, when the top guys come early to practice and low lifes like me are allowed to watch them practice for free. He was playing practice points with Robby Ginepri. At one point I think he won like 12 points in a row. Roddick was clearly the alpha male on that court. Robby looked embarrassed and dejected. Jim Courier had to talk to him several times to get him to calm down.

Anyway, Robby got Roddick on the run and Roddick hit this slap shot, flat as a pancake running forehand screamer that was faster than any forehand I've ever seen. :eek:
http://p090.ezboard.com/ftennis4yougeneraltennis.showMessage?topicID=2113. topic

Deboogle!.
09-22-2004, 01:03 AM
Roddick hit the single hugest forehand I've ever seen. It was on court 1 at the US Open during qualifiers, when the top guys come early to practice and low lifes like me are allowed to watch them practice for free. He was playing practice points with Robby Ginepri. At one point I think he won like 12 points in a row. Roddick was clearly the alpha male on that court. Robby looked embarrassed and dejected. Jim Courier had to talk to him several times to get him to calm down.

Anyway, Robby got Roddick on the run and Roddick hit this slap shot, flat as a pancake running forehand screamer that was faster than any forehand I've ever seen. :eek:
http://p090.ezboard.com/ftennis4yougeneraltennis.showMessage?topicID=2113. topic

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

martirogi
09-22-2004, 01:23 AM
hmm... andy the alpha male was dominating ginepri, sounds arousing i mean intriguing

Dirk
09-22-2004, 04:52 AM
Hmm interesting post and rebuttal Fumus and Fedex. I don't see playing to the crowd as a way to hurt Andy in a rogi match during the US season. I don't think it will distract Andy but at the same time I can't say it will be the bullseye Andy needs in order to win against Rogi. It couldn't hurt, but Rogi has played so many away DC ties and won them so he is use to that. Also I never saw a more rude and rowdy crowd than the one at the Blake and Rogi match in Open 03. I think they did get to Rogi but he was about to snap back to his Ninja self and beat James pretty soundly. The crowd was very pro-Andy during the Wimbly Final and the Toronto Final. I doubt if Andy and Rogi play in the US again they will be a factor as the crowd has too much respect for Federer and will more than likely behave the way they did at the Cup which was very respectful. I have to say overall Fedex is right Fumus but again it couldn't hurt. Maybe Andy has way too much respect for Rogi to do that much like Mac had too much respect for Borg to behave like an asshole during their matches. Plus don't think Andy needs to do that to beat Rogi. He just has to play better tennis than him on that day.

FryslanBoppe
09-22-2004, 07:24 AM
Maybe Andy has way too much respect for Rogi to do that much like Mac had too much respect for Borg to behave like an asshole during their matches. Plus don't think Andy needs to do that to beat Rogi. He just has to play better tennis than him on that day.

That is obvious that Andy has respect for Roger, as Andy has said himself, it's a not a rivalry at the moment. Andy realises that he can't act up too much when he plays Roger, though the balance might be difficult for him to achieve, he can't go on court and not be himself at all, if that's the case then he won't be able to play at his best, though he can't produce a 5min tirade like he did against Van Lottum.

Bunk, nearly every player is tired by the time the indoor season comes around. Nevertheless he has the game to win indoors. The conditions aren't going to effect his serve, though he does need to place them a bit better and use his kicker more often than he does.

Does Andy wear contacts? I was wondering whether the glare or the lights effected him, though I don't think this is a major factor considering he has played so many night matches.

It wouldn't be good if he just settled for the biggest serving records, and having success on hardcourts and grass. If he wants to be consistently one of the best players, it's time to improve on all surfaces, he has the capability of doing so, it's a question of whether he will.

Dirk
09-22-2004, 08:07 AM
Kick serves are harder to pull off on indoor surfaces aren't they? The ball tends to stay longer or is that just on grass/carpet and not indoor hardcourts?

Marc Rosset is Tall
09-22-2004, 08:11 AM
Kick serves are harder to pull off on indoor surfaces aren't they? The ball tends to stay longer or is that just on grass/carpet and not indoor hardcourts?

Big Boris Becker was an indoor maestro, who had a massive kick serve with speed, something Edberg lacked and was able to do that on carpet/indoor hardcourt.

I am not suggesting that Roddick, could be Becker like indoors, but his game should be in theory very well-suited by playing indoors. There is no need to worry about the sun and the wind, plus the old indoor tactic of big serve to the corner, weak reply and knock off easy volley is very achieveable for Andy.

Dirk
09-22-2004, 08:16 AM
Yes it is. Andy should do very well on the indoor season then. He probably would have won Paris if not for Henman so he can win one of these in door masters if not both of them. I don't see him doing that this year but who knows. Personally I think Andy if he can have a normal pro length career (late 20s) could win all the master series events outside the clay ones.

Marc Rosset is Tall
09-22-2004, 08:21 AM
Obviously with his game he has the chance to be a contender for 6 TMS and 3 of the Slams.

He needs to keep improving his overall game and quickly, as the rest of the tour will catch up and be able to handle his pace of shot more effectively, just like they did when Courier was dominating and once his mystique was gone, these players stepped it up and he got left behind.

I am not suggesting that will be the case for Roddick, but it has been shown, that the game evolves and they will find a way to counteract Andy, and this is where he needs to develop other ways of winning, when Plan A isn't working.

Dirk
09-22-2004, 08:31 AM
Hmmm. I don't know, that serve will help him greatly. Jim had a huge forehand but not that huge serve so its not the same. I don't think players will catch up to Andy but he will be easier to deal with him on his off days since he is limited. I don't think Andy has done too much wrong at all this year. I think he has tried to improve as much as he could and it has shown. Some things will take longer to build upon. God knows Rogi's game of grandeur didn't come over night. The only thing is though Rogi's game was well in place in his early days as a pro. Just took him awhile to grasp his genius mentally and physically.

Marc Rosset is Tall
09-22-2004, 08:40 AM
I should have been more clear, what I meant is that the other players will catch up not in the serving power, but they will get better at returning the delivery, if he doesn't change the speed, and the spins more often than he does at the moment.

Power is not everything, though say something happens to Andy's arm and he has to take some time off from the game, I wonder if he will come back better than when he left.

As for developing of games there are too many differences between Andy and Roger to make a valid comparison, for sure Roddick fans need patience, it's a rough diamond and there is plenty to work with. The backhand has improved and still needs to, and he has been volleying better, his court movement and positioning also need to be worked on.

He is playing 3 indoor events, then Houston and more than likely the Davis Cup. The start of 2005 will be interesting, to see what developments and changes have happened during this time.

Dirk
09-22-2004, 08:50 AM
He is playing Thailand after DC next week. He could win that baby. If he does and wins his 5th title....will Andy fans still not be satisfied? Will he still have had a bad year? Andy's movement has improved and it can only get better on the Andy scale. We can't expect him do move any better than he can. He can only do the maximum of his nature ability. Same with returning. He isn't going to be a Nalbandian, Agassi, Hewitt, or Federer when it comes to returning. He can only do as much as he can. He can learn to do new things such as taking the ball early (although that would change his game completely because his powerful forehand needs the big swing in order for it to produce all that power and you can't take big swing and take the ball early at the same time) changing the pace of the ball more but again it will require patience and he will have to endure losses during this experiement. I just don't think his competitive spirit will allow it. Let's face it Rosset, most players (especially the top guys) are very stubborn about changing their games. They just believe that if they could execute their games better and play better on the big points then they will be fine.

Marc Rosset is Tall
09-22-2004, 09:00 AM
- I doubt that he will play in Thailand, though after last year he might play. As for the Andy fan's being satisfied. I am not sure, though the fact that he didn't win a Slam would disappoint them.

Movement and good footwork can always be worked in, and obviously he can only do his best, he'll never be a Coria, Hewitt or Ferrero, but his court speed could still improve.

About the returns and his game, at the moment it's very predictable and know what's coming next, but the thing is that the other player still has to be good enough on the respective day to be better than him.

He could easily generate a lot of power from a shortened swing on a forehand, the timing is the key to that and yes, if they were to make that change and his backhand pass and return could improve as well, but as you said dirk there would have to be an adjustment period.

Yes, they are stubborn about changing their games, but there comes a time when they have to adapt their games to an extent, it happened to Muster and Wilander for example and even Rafter to an extent.

Dirk
09-22-2004, 09:15 AM
Oh yes Andy could reflect the pace back the other side by taking the ball early and shorten his swing but he has to become good enough doing that to maintain his ranking. Who is to say that he can even do it??? Surely if he could and had that ability he would have learned it and it would have been a part of his talent during his developing years. Its all a big ? at this stage. Another thing about his arm Rosset, that is the reason many tennis writers and commentators (Mac included) do believe that Andy will have a short career because of his serve and his game. He has a similiar motion to Rafter's and we all know what happened to his rotator cuff. He said he couldn't even serve up the T near the end of his career because of it. I know Andy has a great team around him to aid his arm and body after matches but with his type of game and his serve he could inevitably being on the path to injury. I know his legs play a big part in his serve and that two could also work against him in long matches because like in the the Wimbledon final. Rogi was able to wear Andy down due to making his serve so much and play so many more rallies. He was using his legs so much during that match which is one of the reasons why he looked so ragged at the end. His endurance can be exploited in big long matches due to that serve, provided he faces a returner who could stay with him and there is only a handful who really can return his serves well.

Marc Rosset is Tall
09-22-2004, 09:28 AM
In a way it's a testament to Andy, that he was able to go through the respective developmental levels, that the holes haven't been wholly exposed, that's the main difference between him and Karlovic, that Andy has a very good groundstroke to go along with that serve of his.

As for the future of the shoulder, for his sake I hope that they have a specific gym program that improves core stability and strengthen his shoulders and arms, yet not bulk up too much, that makes him slower around the court.

I don't think that he does that much endurance work, then again he does win so many easy games because of his serve, that he isn't really tested on that aspect, but he didn't have a great 5 set record this year, and he can be moved around the court with players who can use the pace of his shots as well to redirect the ball.

Dirk
09-22-2004, 09:34 AM
I respect Andy's serve much more than Ivo's because Andy's is ability over physicality while Ivo's is more physicality over ability. Andy's serve motion was very inventive while Ivo's is just height and leverage. Not really all that impressive to me.

star
09-22-2004, 12:19 PM
Maybe we should just move this thread to GM?

Fumus
09-22-2004, 01:27 PM
yea good call.

Deboogle!.
09-22-2004, 02:55 PM
Does Andy wear contacts? I was wondering whether the glare or the lights effected him, though I don't think this is a major factor considering he has played so many night matches.

I don't *think* so but i'm not sure. and as you said, he loves the night matches so I don't think lights are at all an issue for him. I've heard some players mention it's tough to get used to or whatever, but not once have I heard him say anything but positive things about it.

And I do not think Andy is content with serve speed records. I think the only reason he cares about serving fast is because he knows the crowd likes it. Now, whether he cares too much about making the crowd happy sometimes... that's another matter.:o

LOL star ;)

tangerine_dream
09-22-2004, 03:23 PM
Why in the world were the Roddick haters up talking about their least favorite player at 4:00am in the morning? Good grief, their obsession with him and us has now been taken to new heights. I told you guys that they stay up all night talking about us. Wow. That's just....pretty sad. :lol:

Anyhoo, I decided to actually read Naldo's first post and I was wondering if any of you thought that maybe Andy had regressed in any of these departments? I am tempted to say that he's emotionally regressed back to being a wild-eyed loon from 2002. He still lets his emotions get the best of him. He's still a bit immature. When he's frustrated, he resorts back to his mindless bashing days of yesteryear. Eek!

Better shot selection, I'm not so sure. I've noticed throughout the year that he has a strange habit of hitting balls right back at his opponent when he's got a wide open court to hit an easy winner. :confused:

The volleys, the backhand, the net play have all improved but he's still not consistent enough on these points to beat the likes of, say, Tim Henman. Some days he's great at the net. Other days, he's so horrendous you wonder how he managed to become the No. 1 player in the first place. (remember his QF match with Moya at Miami? :eek: )

Confidence---after having to deal with such heartbreaking losses this year, I'd be curious to really know how his confidence really is.

hey everyone, i just want everyone to list like 5-10 things that Andy has improved recently. not just because he changed coaches, but just to see his improvement when comparing to last year or the year before. here are mince( btw a little sentence or 2 would be nice:))

1) the noggin- obviously the one that stands out the most. extremely focues now, mind doesnt wander. he doesnt make things get to him as easily as before
2) backhand- like night and day. it was pretty abysmal before, but now its turned into a steady shot, and sets up the forehand nicely. and wow those backhand down the line shots. its becoming more of a weapon, just not there yet
3) confidence- it has sky rocketed and this is what pushes him to win.
4) becoming the best- he now has the frame of mind to become the best he can and this is pushing him to do better every single time
5) serve- yes believe it or not, the serve. extremely high % of them in, considering the speed he gets on them. varying them much better this year. using the off-speed ones and the ones out wide very well
6) better shot selection- actually setting up points better. not going for the winner when there's a huge opening, but plays a good deep ball, which ends up being a winner anyways:p, but is a more careful shot which can easily be put away again if the other dude hits it back
7) movement- was already a pretty decent mover for a dude with that kind of stature. dont know why people say his movement sucks. hes getting more balls back, and looks quicker on the court
8) volleys/net play- we're getting there. should see some major improvement here since he had 2 weeks to train with Brad and include some new shots
uh........can't think of more, im sure there r some others, and plus its late and im tired:p so everyone share ur opinions. they dont really have to be in order or anything, just list them and stuff

Deboogle!.
09-22-2004, 03:27 PM
Better shot selection, I'm not so sure. I've noticed throughout the year that he has a strange habit of hitting balls right back at his opponent when he's got a wide open court to hit an easy winner. :confused:

I want to smack him upside the head when he does that :smash:

The volleys, the backhand, the net play have all improved but he's still not consistent enough on these points to beat the likes of, say, Tim Henman. Some days he's great at the net. Other days, he's so horrendous you wonder how he managed to become the No. 1 player in the first place. (remember his QF match with Moya at Miami? :eek: )

Please let's not bring up the volleys from that Moya match? *looks for a vomiting smiley* I think the improvements are there, he's just in a stage right now where as you said, they're not consistent. But that takes time. I admire the fact that he runs around his BH less and goes to the net more, because it's at least showing that #1 he's not afraid to fail and #2 he knows that he has to use these shots in actual matches in order for them to improve. It's like he sees the big picture and knows that in the longrun if he tries these things now and maybe loses a set or a match b/c of it, it will actually be for his benefit in the longrun. I would expect to see more consistency next year, if it's still shaky from match to match then I will start to :rolleyes:

Confidence---after having to deal with such heartbreaking losses this year, I'd be curious to really know how his confidence really is.

I don't know :( Probably not as high as we would like it - especially considering he's a confidence player and that's really when he plays his best, when he's loose and unconcerned. I guess we can try to see where he's at this weekend.

heya
09-23-2004, 12:29 AM
I think his scores against players like Sampras/Coria/Fed between '01-'02 were
very good. (He wasn't strong physically/mentally at the USO match vs. Sampras.)
He played a 7-6 3rd set vs. Fed in '01. He beat Sampras twice comfortably.
He did ok on clay.
He beat Agassi on hardcourt ('01) & carpet 6-3 6-4 in exhibitions ('02).

But in '03-04- He lost (exhibitions included) to Blake, Malisse, Agassi & Nalbandian.


He's just happy sitting back enjoying the hype & fame from winning 1 slam.

He didn't look happy while training either. He missed easy shots & shattered rackets.

Errors frustrated him so much that he lost the desire to change his game during matches.

There's no real plan A when you serve 135 mph without caring for the rest of your game, but that's Gilbert's game plan.

IMO, he wanted people to be annoyed by him all year.
He stupidly talked loudly at opponents to hear them talk back to hiim
(Dent@Wimbledon, Ljubicic@RCA).

He yelled at opponents to make them laugh at his face (made an unfunny fart joke).

He wasted time pushing down microphones, muscling balls into the net, then stretched
matches to 2 1/2 hrs. because he kept celebrating & losing focus.

He always looked at Gilbert for reassurance.
Good mental strength, my ass.

Havok
09-23-2004, 01:30 AM
:scared:

FryslanBoppe
09-23-2004, 03:22 AM
Why in the world were the Roddick haters up talking about their least favorite player at 4:00am in the morning? Good grief, their obsession with him and us has now been taken to new heights. I told you guys that they stay up all night talking about us. Wow. That's just....pretty sad. :lol:

Considering it wasn't 4am when that post was made and where Marc and myself live it's 6am now, and some of us do work various shifts.

The question is about Roddick's improvements to his game and what he needs to do to further his improvement and since there hasn't been any insulting remarks about him at all by the so-called "haters". Then why do you feel the need to bring it up?

You are the one who seems obsessed and yes it is possible for people to talk in a constructive manner about things or people that they don't necessarily have empathy with, but just leave it alone, and this is not a closed forum, and as long as posters stick to the question, then it shouldn't be a problem.

Havok
09-23-2004, 03:44 AM
Oh.