Explosion rips through bus in central London; underground network closed [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Explosion rips through bus in central London; underground network closed

PennyThePenguin
07-07-2005, 09:40 AM
LONDON : An explosion ripped through a bus in central London just minutes after a blast rocked the underground, bringing the entire network to a standstill, a police official said.

Police closed off the area around Tavistock Square.

Several people have been injured on Thursday after a few explosions occurred on the London Underground network.

London's entire underground railway network was suspended, officials and rescue workers said.

Metronet, a company which maintains the subway infrastructure, said the explosion was caused by a power surge.

Scotland Yard declared the emergency a "major incident".

The chaos came a day after the British capital was chosen to host the 2012 Olympics.

Police evacuated several mainline railway and underground stations after a blast near Liverpool Street Station, which serves London's financial district, and a separate incident in the west of the capital.

"We believe there was some sort of explosion. There are some walking wounded at Aldgate," a police spokesman said, referring to an underground station near Liverpool Street.

"We are not sure of the scale of the incident. Reports are still coming in."

A spokesman for London underground said a second 'incident' had taken place at Edgware Road station in west London.

Emergency vehicles rushed to the scene to deal with the confusion.

Witnesses on Sky television were quoted as saying people streamed out of some of the stations covered in soot, some in tears, many visibly shocked.

One of the evacuated stations was Stratford, which will be a key transport link for the site of the Olympic Games. - AFP/de/dt

SuperFurryAnimal
07-07-2005, 09:43 AM
OMG I heard it on the news as well... I think it's a terroristic attack! Like they want to show: see, we can do this during the Olympic Games as well... :eek:

chrissiej
07-07-2005, 09:43 AM
:sad: this has freaked me out, big time...I hope everyone in London's okay. I have to fly home there in a few days and getting into the country's goin' to take forever. Luckily my cousins will pick me up now, I was going to have to get the tube, which probably won't even be working by then.

:sad:

They havent said how many injured yet....

PennyThePenguin
07-07-2005, 09:44 AM
actually, I was thinking it could have something to do with the G8 summit up in scotland.

Nimrodg
07-07-2005, 09:44 AM
Sorry to hear about this explosions as one that gone through it many times...

I hope there aren't many wounded people.

any way if it's related to bin-laden or any other terror organization , the G8 Leaders needs to decide to fight in terror and big time.

chrissiej
07-07-2005, 09:45 AM
Its probably because of G8, all police attention is in Scotland. Not London. Easier target. :o

Kudz
07-07-2005, 09:46 AM
actually, I was thinking it could have something to do with the G8 summit up in scotland.
I agree. I think it's more likely to be related to the G8 summit rather than the 2012 Olympics.

Neely
07-07-2005, 09:52 AM
OMG, what a bad incident! :banghead: :sad:

Kudz
07-07-2005, 09:53 AM
So far 3 explosions have been confirmed.

Cris
07-07-2005, 09:54 AM
Just saw on tv :sad: Hope everyone in London can be ok.

Straby
07-07-2005, 10:00 AM
This is getting more and more serious. A few hours ago they were talking about a small incident and a few people injured on my local tv station, and now with all those busses and tubes... :sad:

Kudz
07-07-2005, 10:02 AM
There are now reports of more explosions and confirmation of fatalities.

PennyThePenguin
07-07-2005, 10:03 AM
This is getting more and more serious. A few hours ago they were talking about a small incident and a few people injured on my local tv station, and now with all those busses and tubes... :sad:

maybe they hadn't realised the full extent of the damage then?

Nimrodg
07-07-2005, 10:03 AM
It's a terror attack for sure. and probably al qaeda related to this :( :sad:

joeb_uk
07-07-2005, 10:23 AM
England up high with the recent news (so perfect time for those motherfuckers to strike). Everyone celebrating and they are hit down!
At first i thought it was because england got the olympics, but now i think its because everyone would have been complacent in regards to security (so a perfect opportunity).

joeb_uk
07-07-2005, 10:24 AM
6 Explosions, 20 dead at least, 90 injured

allanah
07-07-2005, 10:24 AM
Does anyone have a website other than BBC, Sky or ITN for the latest news (preferrably a British one), all the servers for these three are either down or super-slow.

joeb_uk
07-07-2005, 10:25 AM
This has only just begun :sad: its only gonna get worse :mad:

Peta Pan
07-07-2005, 10:26 AM
Since I heard the news I've been worried about our MTF members. Could our British forummers please let us know that they are ok?

:sad:

It may be to do with the G8 summit... but it also seems extremely convenient that it is the day after London was given the Olympics. It's like someone was trying to ruin their exciting time of celebration.

Choupi
07-07-2005, 10:27 AM
OMG! It's freaking out! No matter which cause it is related, Olympics or G8, that's the job of bastards! :mad: I'm so sad for the ppl who have lost their life, those who have been injured and their family and relatives...

Geniey2g
07-07-2005, 10:28 AM
Since I heard the news I've been worried about our MTF members. Could our British forummers please let us know that they are ok?

:sad:

It may be to do with the G8 summit... but it also seems extremely convenient that it is the day after London was given the Olympics. It's like someone was trying to ruin their exciting time of celebration.
I'm fine! But I was out and about in the areas concerned just yesterday :sad:

I'm so mad at whoever did this to our city.

Ferrero Forever
07-07-2005, 10:28 AM
This is awful, I really hope everyone from here and everyone's families are ok. These terrorists make me so mad.

JuanChuffy007
07-07-2005, 10:29 AM
6 Explosions, 20 dead at least, 90 injured

:sad: :sad:

joeb_uk
07-07-2005, 10:29 AM
OMG! It's freaking out! No matter which cause it is related, Olympics or G8, that's the job of bastards! :mad: I'm so sad for the ppl who have lost their life, those who have been injured and their family and relatives...
Both are probably a factor. I was in the car listening to it :sad: and i just got home and saw the scenes on tv. How bad will this get?

Geniey2g
07-07-2005, 10:29 AM
Another report from the Daily Mail
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=354944&in_page_id=1770

Breaking news at 11.05am: A number of people have been killed in a series of terror blasts which rocked the London Tube and bus network during the morning rush hour. Commuters have 'streamed out' of stations 'covered in blood' and the Tube network has been totally suspended with all stations evacuated.
Police are reported to have confirmed blasts on three buses in central London, one at Tavistock Place near Holborn, in central London. The area has been closed off.

Union officials said their sources had told them there had been at least one explosive device on the Underground. An explosion was reported at an East London station and a second incident at Edgware Road station.

London Fire Brigade said it had been called to reports of "explosions" at a number of locations in central London, including Aldgate, Edgware Road and Tavistock Square as well as to another incident at King's Cross.

All London hospitals were put on major incident alert as ambulances are bringing in casualties.

Home Secretary Charles Clarke said the blasts had caused "terrible injuries", the Prime Minister was being kept informed, people in London should not make unnecessary journeys and he would be making a statement to MPs later.

British Transport Police had initially said power surge incidents had caused explosions on the London Underground at Aldgate, Edgware Road, King's Cross, Old Street and Russell Square.

Travellers emerged from tunnels covered in blood and soot.

Police said there are walking wounded at the scene and all stations have been evacuated.

A witness has reported people "streaming out" of Aldgate Tube Station "covered in blood".

Scotland Yard could not confirm reports of an explosion on a bus in Russell Square. A spokeswoman said police were at the scene and attempting to determine what had happened.


A British Transport Police (BTP) spokesman said that two trains remain stuck in tunnels at Edgware Road, but it is not known if they have collided or if passengers remain onboard.
"Officers are working at tunnel and platform level to help get people out and to help find out what has happened," he said.

Passengers smashing windows

Passengers involved in the Metropolitan Line explosion at Edgware Road are reported to have attempted to smash the windows of their Tube carriages with umbrellas in an attempt to escape.

Police are thought to have been sent into tunnels to evacuate people along the tracks.

Bradley Anderson told Sky News that he was involved in the Edgware Road incident on a Circle line train.

He said: "We just left Paddington station. About 15 seconds later there was some kind of explosion and we collided with another train.

"We were heading into the station when there was some kind of explosion or something. Everything went black and we collided into some kind of oncoming train. There was debris all over the trains. They evacuated us."

A BTP spokesman said that emergency services were dealing with reports of an explosion at 8.49am on the Metropolitan Line between Liverpool Street and Aldgate. It was first believed that the incident was caused by a collision between two trains, a power cut or a power cable exploding.

British Transport Police confirmed that there are "walking wounded" and said paramedics have responded to one report of a person classed as "life at risk".

King's Cross, Liverpool Street and Aldgate stations have also been cleared.

A London Ambulance Service spokeswoman said: "We have just sent some resources out to the scene. We have sent a number of vehicles to Liverpool Street station."

According to Tube infrastructure company Metronet, which is responsible for maintaining the Metropolitan line, today's incident was caused "by some kind of power surge".

London Underground said: "The network has been suspended until further notice and all stations are being evacuated."

British Transport Police said work is being carried out to establish the precise cause of the problem.

"It's chaos, with people trying to work out what has happened," said a spokesman.

"All we know at the moment is that staff reported a loud bang at 8.49am.

Stations closed across capital

The incident caused major disruption to the entire network with stations across the capital being closed.

Passengers were told that all services were being suspended because of a power fault across the network.

A City of London Police spokesman said: "We have closed Liverpool Street station as well as Aldgate.

"We believe there was some sort of explosion. There are some walking wounded at Aldgate. We are not sure of the scale of the incident. Reports are still coming in."

Ministers are meeting to clarify the situation after explosions in London, Leader of the House Geoff Hoon told the Commons. The Government will make a statement later.

joeb_uk
07-07-2005, 10:30 AM
:sad: :sad:
These are probably way under the real numbers :mad: The ones that could get out alive too! peoples faces being blown off apparently from eye witness reports.

allanah
07-07-2005, 10:32 AM
Does anyone have a website other than BBC, Sky or ITN for the latest news (preferrably a British one), all the servers for these three are either down or super-slow.


Sorry to be repetitive, but please does anyone know a news website where you can get up-to-date info? I can't log onto any of the above three - or reuters or ananova.

joeb_uk
07-07-2005, 10:33 AM
Damn they say its almost certainly work of those arab fucks, al qaeda :mad:

RainerShuttle
07-07-2005, 10:34 AM
It's been confirmed that it's 90% certain that it was Al-Quaeda. This incident is scarily similar to Madrid last year. Why can't terrorists just fcuk off.

Cris
07-07-2005, 10:35 AM
Watching CNN, total chaos in London :sad: My thoughts and prayers with all of them. Hope MTF posters, their families and friends are ok.

Douggie Style
07-07-2005, 10:35 AM
Yep, I just saw that too stupid terrorits :mad:

:sad:

joeb_uk
07-07-2005, 10:36 AM
It's been confirmed that it's 90% certain that it was Al-Quaeda. This incident is scarily similar to Madrid last year. Why can't terrorists just fcuk off.
Who would have guessed those wankers would be the ones :pff:

Rex
07-07-2005, 10:36 AM
this stuff scares the shit out of me- my dad nearly went through the tube this morning but it was already closed.

joeb_uk
07-07-2005, 10:37 AM
Yep, I just saw that too stupid terrorits :mad:

:sad:
Everyone was 100% sure it was terrorists (but we didnt know who).

RainerShuttle
07-07-2005, 10:37 AM
Who would have guessed those wankers would be the ones :pff:

Yep, it was a complete shock wasn't it :confused:
A;-Quaeda are usually such nice chaps :mad:

Nimrodg
07-07-2005, 10:38 AM
Just al qaeda can arrange this kind of terror attack. no other terror organization.
anyway it's simply shame that terror organizations like hizbullah ,al qaeda and islamic jihad.
The G8 summit leaders need to decide they intend to really fight in terror.

joeb_uk
07-07-2005, 10:39 AM
Yep, it was a complete shock wasn't it :confused:
A;-Quaeda are usually such nice chaps :mad:
How are they going to step these people? :shrug:

Suzi
07-07-2005, 10:40 AM
My deepest sympathys to all those caught up in the incident. you see this sought of stuff happening elsewhere but when it happens here its scary stuff.

RainerShuttle
07-07-2005, 10:44 AM
There's nothing we can do as there are so many of them. The Al-Quaeda network is huge. If Bin-Laden goe, they'll just find someone else to replace him as their leader so it's an impossible situation. Unfurtunately, this kind of situation will only increase racist tension in the country with a lot of people already saying that if immigration did not happen to the extent it does here, there would be less chance of potential terrorists entering the country.

Ferrero Forever
07-07-2005, 10:44 AM
It's scary because I was on a train yesterday, it could very easily be Australia next time. But the terrorists want us to be scared, so we must not allow ourselves to live in fear of them.

joeb_uk
07-07-2005, 10:45 AM
Blair to make a speech and invite more bombings! That wanker will only make the situation worse and probably motivate the terrrorists even more.

RainerShuttle
07-07-2005, 10:45 AM
Germany has been put on alert, apparently as the possible "next destination" for those wonderful Al-Quaeda twats

RainerShuttle
07-07-2005, 10:46 AM
Blair to make a speech and invite more bombings! That wanker will only make the situation worse and probably motivate the terrrorists even more.

They should have John Prescott making the speech. If he doesn't scare of terrorists, not much will.

roisin
07-07-2005, 10:48 AM
I'm in shock, I hope everyone is ok...sympathies to all involved.

My family only came home from that area of London the other day...its scary.

joeb_uk
07-07-2005, 10:50 AM
They should have John Prescott making the speech. If he doesn't scare of terrorists, not much will.
Seriously, do they have any idea of how many people are in al qaeda?

Peta Pan
07-07-2005, 10:52 AM
I'm sick of the world.... and when something like this happens, it just completely makes me question the value of life again. What is it that makes people feel the need to ruin the lives of others?

Nimrodg
07-07-2005, 10:53 AM
There's nothing we can do as there are so many of them. The Al-Quaeda network is huge. If Bin-Laden goe, they'll just find someone else to replace him as their leader so it's an impossible situation. Unfurtunately, this kind of situation will only increase racist tension in the country with a lot of people already saying that if immigration did not happen to the extent it does here, there would be less chance of potential terrorists entering the country.

Everything is possible when the biggest nations in the world with the biggest army gatherd together. all they need to do is have no mercy and no humanitarian.

Just decide they going to destroy al-qaeda, and it's possible for sure.
Israel had gone so much incident like those in the past 3 years from different terror organiztaions. and many innocent people got killed. I know how it feels like and i know England should enter into a big fight to destroy al-qaeda.

RainerShuttle
07-07-2005, 10:53 AM
Seriously, do they have any idea of how many people are in al qaeda?

I think theyre under the impression it's some kind of family business. Terrorism will never stop. There's nothing Blair can really do about it. Howerver, I'll be listening to see what TB has to say. I mean, what can he really say that he hasn't said before? "This time it's personal"?

Nimrodg
07-07-2005, 10:55 AM
Seriously, do they have any idea of how many people are in al qaeda?

There are more people in the british army
There are more people in the US ARMY
and there are more people even in the israeli army


The free world can beat them

Mrs. B
07-07-2005, 10:56 AM
Shit.

RainerShuttle
07-07-2005, 10:58 AM
Everything is possible when the biggest nations in the world with the biggest army gatherd together. all they need to do is have no mercy and no humanitarian.

Just decide they going to destroy al-qaeda, and it's possible for sure.
Israel had gone so much incident like those in the past 3 years from different terror organiztaions. and many innocent people got killed. I know how it feels like and i know England should enter into a big fight to destroy al-qaeda.

They are spread out over the world though. If we don't know where they are, we can't bring them to justice. The British army might be bigger in size, but tracking down every Al-Quaeda member is a different matter. Plus, do you really think people will back TB to lead us to ANOTHER was after the shame of the Iraq disgrace?

Nimrodg
07-07-2005, 11:03 AM
They are spread out over the world though. If we don't know where they are, we can't bring them to justice. The British army might be bigger in size, but tracking down every Al-Quaeda member is a different matter. Plus, do you really think people will back TB to lead us to ANOTHER was after the shame of the Iraq disgrace?

The us army didn't have what to look in iraq after he catched all the leaders over there.
anyaway, You can beat terror organization by ruin he's basis. they just need to catch the real people that responseble for that. Israel for example killed Yasin and rantisi and the Hamas got much less power. i'm expecting from US to finally find the people that leading al-qaeda, if they found saddam this is possible too.

Lucie
07-07-2005, 11:11 AM
tony blair just made a speech and he looked very shaken

he says he is flying back to london for a couple of hours

Purple Rainbow
07-07-2005, 11:12 AM
Brilliant timing. For once, the attention of the whole world was directed to help Africa fight hunger and poverty. Then those Al Qaeda fucks do this and all we'll here for the next weeks is Dubya and his lapdog Blair saying how we have to step up the war on terror (which is going brilliantly, Afganistan and Iraq are beacons of safety and freedom!). :rolleyes:

My sympathies to the families of the victims of this horrible attack.

Douggie Style
07-07-2005, 11:15 AM
I have two relatives in Central London right now, both are fine, but they have to stay where they are.

SuperFurryAnimal
07-07-2005, 11:37 AM
Jeez... In what kind of a world are we living? :mad: We just had these Live 8 concerts, which made some sort of a point that we're all the same and we should respect each other... And now these sick bastards blow the whole thing with horrible terrible attacks... :fiery:

Sometimes I really detest this world! :awww:

sol
07-07-2005, 11:49 AM
My sister is there.. buy she's safe .. Thanks God!

chrissiej
07-07-2005, 11:53 AM
Apparently the G8 leaders are going to make a joint statement soon to show solidarity etc etc. Blair is returning to London but will go back to the summit this evening. IOC just said they have faith in London for the Olympics and the attacks are entirely unrelated to the Olympics.

sol
07-07-2005, 11:56 AM
Apparently the G8 leaders are going to make a joint statement soon to show solidarity etc etc. Blair is returning to London but will go back to the summit this evening. IOC just said they have faith in London for the Olympics and the attacks are entirely unrelated to the Olympics.

My sister said that was because the G8 Presidents meeting.

She’s working in the Imperial College. The explosions were very near…

*Ljubica*
07-07-2005, 12:07 PM
To Peta, Cris and all those others who have expressed concern about us here in London - and to those who have sent me PMs - thanks :hug: My office is not so far from where one of the bombs went off - so most of the morning we've had very little mobile phone contact/electricity/Internet connection to contact the outside wrld - but guess I was lucky as I'd only just got to work shortly before so I could easily have walked straight into it. I'm a little shaky but physically unharmed and I hope all the other Brit posters here are OK.:

It's a mess out there and looking at it makes me cry but don't worry - we will cope.............I was bought up in London at the height of the IRA bombing campaign so it's not like we Brits aren't used to it, though this is on a much larger scale. We Brits are pretty tough and stoic and our infamous "stiff upper lips" come to the fore at times like this - we will NOT let the bastards get to us :devil:

Thanks for your concern again anyway guys - :wavey: from London.

undomiele
07-07-2005, 12:08 PM
My deepest condolences to the British ppl. What horrible news to wake up to. :eek: :mad:

Unfortunately London has always been a major target after Madrid and officially joining the war in Iraq. It was probably just a matter of time for Al-Qaeda to put this together... with all eyes looking at Edinburgh.

This is really kind of like a bad trip - euphoric ecstasy one day, surly depression the next. :crying2:

But the British ppl should keep their chin up during times like these. As no doubt they will, after the Blitz, IRA attacks and... Margaret Thatcher? ;)

Imagine: the Iraqis deal with these kind of blasts every single day!

joeb_uk
07-07-2005, 12:14 PM
I really hope they find the people responsible (if they werent blown up in the blasts) and torture them to death. This is the only suitable punishment for people who would do such things. Murdering them or putting them in prision is not enough, they need to be tortured and torn apart with as much pain and suffering as possible.

DanEd
07-07-2005, 12:16 PM
Poor Londres :sad: :hug:

chrissiej
07-07-2005, 12:16 PM
G8 - "we will prevail, they will not succeed."

Peta Pan
07-07-2005, 12:18 PM
To Peta, Cris and all those others who have expressed concern about us here in London - and to those who have sent me PMs - thanks :hug:
:hug::hug::hug: Thanks for letting us know Rosie :) You were one of the posters that sprung to mind that I was worried about, so it's great to see your post.

My thoughts go out to those affected by this awful tragedy. It just breaks my heart :sad:

Nimrodg
07-07-2005, 12:20 PM
I really hope they find the people responsible (if they werent blown up in the blasts) and torture them to death. This is the only suitable punishment for people who would do such things. Murdering them or putting them in prision is not enough, they need to be tortured and torn apart with as much pain and suffering as possible.

You mean to find finally bin laden :mad:

joeb_uk
07-07-2005, 12:20 PM
To Peta, Cris and all those others who have expressed concern about us here in London - and to those who have sent me PMs - thanks :hug: My office is not so far from where one of the bombs went off - so most of the morning we've had very little mobile phone contact/electricity/Internet connection to contact the outside wrld - but guess I was lucky as I'd only just got to work shortly before so I could easily have walked straight into it. I'm a little shaky but physically unharmed and I hope all the other Brit posters here are OK.:

It's a mess out there and looking at it makes me cry but don't worry - we will cope.............I was bought up in London at the height of the IRA bombing campaign so it's not like we Brits aren't used to it, though this is on a much larger scale. We Brits are pretty tough and stoic and our infamous "stiff upper lips" come to the fore at times like this - we will NOT let the bastards get to us :devil:

Thanks for your concern again anyway guys - :wavey: from London.


:hug:

My parents were planning to go to london today to go on the london eye! I dont know if that is near any of the blasts :shrug: (but its lucky they didnt go due to the dull weather!!).

+alonso
07-07-2005, 12:21 PM
:sad: Sorry..Hope all brit people are ok :sad:

Carlita
07-07-2005, 12:21 PM
:sad: :fiery: :sad:

joeb_uk
07-07-2005, 12:23 PM
You mean to find finally bin laden :mad:
Well thats the ultimate one, but i am talking about the ones who planted the bombs! The ones that were acting as puppets (i dont think there is much chance of finding bin laden).

But i feel, people who are involved in al qaeda (should all be tortured). Sure its extreme, but putting them in prision or death sentence is really nothing.

Aleksa's Laydee
07-07-2005, 12:25 PM
Fucccck!

My dads there...but hes a firefighter and iv heard from him so hes ok!

1sun
07-07-2005, 12:26 PM
I really hope they find the people responsible (if they werent blown up in the blasts) and torture them to death. This is the only suitable punishment for people who would do such things. Murdering them or putting them in prision is not enough, they need to be tortured and torn apart with as much pain and suffering as possible.
amen.i was on my way to skool and the news just filtered through london like water through a drain. and when i got to skl they were not lettin anyone go,lessons were canceled and they eventualy let us go. at least its not as bad as september 11. my thoughts go out to all. another sad day for the world. :sad:

User ID 4783
07-07-2005, 12:26 PM
I know some people who are on a school trip in London right now :unsure:

My sympathy goes to all the ppl there :sad:

Aleksa's Laydee
07-07-2005, 12:28 PM
Im glad your ok Rosie...I didnt know you worked in London :hug: keep safe!

joeb_uk
07-07-2005, 12:28 PM
amen.i was on my way to skool and the news just filtered through london like water through a drain. and when i got to skl they were not lettin anyone go,lessons were canceled and they eventualy let us go. at least its not as bad as september 11. my thoughts go out to all. another sad day for the world. :sad:
During september 11 i was at school all day so i didnt really get chance to hear any of the news or even see coverage (but being home this time, it is very sad to hear :sad: and watch!)

star
07-07-2005, 12:28 PM
:hug: :hug: for all the British posters. :sad:

It's such a miserable event.

joeb_uk
07-07-2005, 12:30 PM
I know some people who are on a school trip in London right now :unsure:

My sympathy goes to all the ppl there :sad:
Try not to worry, london is such a HUGE place! Its not a small town where if a few bombs went off it would blow the whole place up. But it is very worrying even considering that :mad:

RainerShuttle
07-07-2005, 12:32 PM
You mean to find finally bin laden :mad:

Even if they do get Bin Liner, there'll be some other wacko ready to take over from him. The organisation is huge.

DanEd
07-07-2005, 12:40 PM
exactly, alqaeda is a very big terrorist network. bin laden is only the visible face of that.
Even if they do get Bin Liner, there'll be some other wacko ready to take over from him. The organisation is huge.

User ID 4783
07-07-2005, 12:41 PM
Try not to worry, london is such a HUGE place! Its not a small town where if a few bombs went off it would blow the whole place up. But it is very worrying even considering that :mad:
yes, but most tourists use the underground or busses :awww:

Damita
07-07-2005, 12:43 PM
OMG :sad: i had a real shock when my bro told me to turn the TV on. It's awful

And of course not related to the Olympics. It takes months to prepare such an attack... (how do they call it again? you know, several attacks at the same time...), anyway it would make no sense. (and right now the whole Olympic thig doesn't seem that important, right? it's just awful to imagine Londoners celebrating yesterday and living a real nightmare today :sad: ).
More likely to be related to G8 meeting indeed, especially as all the attention was on Scotland as Christina said, which made London an easy target.

TV here talks about 7 attacks now, not 6. And they said as the bombs were in the underground, not in stations outside like in Madrid, there will probably be other victims who are suffocating down there... so the number of deaths should increase. It's awful, very scary.

I hope every English posters of MTF who live or work in London are ok, and their relatives and family as well. :hug: (Rosie, Sarah and Sol especially :hug: )

bad gambler
07-07-2005, 12:45 PM
These mofos are cowards, simple as that :mad:

undomiele
07-07-2005, 12:47 PM
Even if they do get Bin Liner, there'll be some other wacko ready to take over from him. The organisation is huge.

I don't think thats the angle ppl should take in confronting terrorism. Its really about addressing the fundamental core issues that will prevent ppl from joining the terrorist network. Thats really only the proven way of resolving the issue. Notice how much the IRA lost its nationalist powergrip when the Ireland experienced its phenomenal economic upsurge. It won't be easy but all the more reason the G8 should be more concerned about helping the bitter and poor rather than buying more bombs.

I also think Blair should be indicted for sending the British to Iraq with no real mandate. The UK's role in Iraq is undoubtedly accountable for this as it was for Spain.

Nimrodg
07-07-2005, 12:49 PM
Well thats the ultimate one, but i am talking about the ones who planted the bombs! The ones that were acting as puppets (i dont think there is much chance of finding bin laden).

But i feel, people who are involved in al qaeda (should all be tortured). Sure its extreme, but putting them in prision or death sentence is really nothing.

it won't help you to catch the people who planted the bomb, i'm telling this for sure.
they need to catch the people who send them to place the bombs there and the responsibles for the terror attack.
But i can say that won't be easy in london, cause there can be regular muslim man that someone incite him to place a bomb. and there are many muslims in london as far as i know (?).
I have nothing with muslim people but people in the mosques sometimes making them to do such things.

Wednesday Addams
07-07-2005, 12:51 PM
I hope all mtf british posters are okay. My symphaties for the ones who lost their lives and for their famillies.

Brilliant timing. For once, the attention of the whole world was directed to help Africa fight hunger and poverty. Then those Al Qaeda fucks do this and all we'll here for the next weeks is Dubya and his lapdog Blair saying how we have to step up the war on terror (which is going brilliantly, Afganistan and Iraq are beacons of safety and freedom!). :rolleyes:

Exactly. It's like nothing good can happen in the World nowadays. :sad:

justClaudia
07-07-2005, 12:52 PM
I hope every English posters of MTF who live or work in London are ok, and their relatives and family as well. :hug: (Rosie, Sarah and Sol especially :hug: )

:worship:

I have to add SophiaC...hope she's fine as well :hug:

LaTenista
07-07-2005, 12:58 PM
:sad: As a former Londoner this is a big blow after yesterday's high over the Olympic bid.

The London Eye is on the South Bank of the Thames, nowhere near any of the explosions I know about (all of them are North of the river).

My deepest sympathies to all the MTFers in London and their family and friends. You certaintly don't deserve this. :hug: On Sept 11 I found out about the attacks from an English friend, even though I was in America then. At least Brits are used to it and seem to cope well IMHO.

Dirk
07-07-2005, 01:02 PM
Brilliant timing. For once, the attention of the whole world was directed to help Africa fight hunger and poverty. Then those Al Qaeda fucks do this and all we'll here for the next weeks is Dubya and his lapdog Blair saying how we have to step up the war on terror (which is going brilliantly, Afganistan and Iraq are beacons of safety and freedom!). :rolleyes:

My sympathies to the families of the victims of this horrible attack.

There is plenty of good news in Iraq and Afganistan that you will never read or hear from the mainstream media. It took us 7 years to rebuild Germany so they could run it again and there was a terrorist group named the Wolverines who were left over Nazis that just wouldn't quit till we captured or killed them all. Two years into that seven year effort do you think we should have abandoned our mission? What good would that do? How would not only Europe but the rest of the world have looked if we had cut and run. If we leave Iraq now it will become a Taliban state, you surely don't want that do you mr. humanitarian?

REMEMBER THESE REBUILDING EFFORTS TAKE YEARS. THEY ARE NATIONS NOT WEBSITES!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

MariaV
07-07-2005, 01:03 PM
I'm so sorry for all the Londoners. :sad: :sad: Rosie, Sarah and everyone else :hug: :hug:

Nikki♥
07-07-2005, 01:06 PM
Just found out about it on the news. I feel so sorry for the people that got injured and those who have lost a beloved person. I can´t believe that something like that had to happen again...New York City, Madrid and now London...which city will be next? That´s truly tragical. I hope that soon they will be able to stop this spiral of terrorism for good because too many innocent people have lost their lives already.

Purple Rainbow
07-07-2005, 01:11 PM
There is plenty of good news in Iraq and Afganistan that you will never read or hear from the mainstream media. It took us 7 years to rebuild Germany so they could run it again and there was a terrorist group named the Wolverines who were left over Nazis that just wouldn't quit till we captured or killed them all. Two years into that seven year effort do you think we should have abandoned our mission? What good would that do? How would not only Europe but the rest of the world have looked if we had cut and run. If we leave Iraq now it will become a Taliban state, you surely don't want that do you mr. humanitarian?

REMEMBER THESE REBUILDING EFFORTS TAKE YEARS. THEY ARE NATIONS NOT WEBSITES!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

I don't think we should leave Iraq and Afghanistan now that we are there.
I think that the invasion of Iraq was an illegal and an unjustified act.
I also think that the war on terror thus far has done more harm than good.
I also think that there are more important issues to deal with in this world than terrorism.

Having said that I of course feel terribly sorry for the friends and families of the victims and I hope those responsible will be found and put to trial very soon.

sol
07-07-2005, 01:13 PM
To Peta, Cris and all those others who have expressed concern about us here in London - and to those who have sent me PMs - thanks :hug: My office is not so far from where one of the bombs went off - so most of the morning we've had very little mobile phone contact/electricity/Internet connection to contact the outside wrld - but guess I was lucky as I'd only just got to work shortly before so I could easily have walked straight into it. I'm a little shaky but physically unharmed and I hope all the other Brit posters here are OK.:

It's a mess out there and looking at it makes me cry but don't worry - we will cope.............I was bought up in London at the height of the IRA bombing campaign so it's not like we Brits aren't used to it, though this is on a much larger scale. We Brits are pretty tough and stoic and our infamous "stiff upper lips" come to the fore at times like this - we will NOT let the bastards get to us :devil:

Thanks for your concern again anyway guys - :wavey: from London.

Nice to know that you're fine as well Rosie! :hug: :hug:

My sister wrote:

12:48pm. An Islamic website is now carrying a message claiming responsibility for the attacks.

Just after midday Tony Blair made a short statement. He called the incidents "barbaric" on a day when the G8 was meeting to solve issues such as poverty in Africa.

The Prime Minister said it was "reasonably clear" that the terrorist attacks were designed to coincide with the opening of the G8. He made clear his resolve that Britain would not give in to terrorism: "Whatever they do it is our determination that they will not succeed in destroying what we hold dear in this country and in other civilised nations in the world."

He said he would leave the G8 meeting and return to London.

Home secretary Charles Clarke is to make a statement shortly.

There are currently seven blast areas being reported: King's Cross, Tavistock Square, Russell Square, Liverpool Street, Moorgate, Aldgate East, Edgware Road.

The London Ambulance service has reported a tube train is stuck underground in the King's Cross area on which there are fatalities.



Fortunately She’s OK, but doesn’t know how is going to manage to go home.

Angle Queen
07-07-2005, 01:13 PM
:sad: :fiery: :sad:Yep.

Dirk
07-07-2005, 01:23 PM
I don't think we should leave Iraq and Afghanistan now that we are there.
I think that the invasion of Iraq was an illegal and an unjustified act.
I also think that the war on terror thus far has done more harm than good.
I also think that there are more important issues to deal with in this world than terrorism.

Having said that I of course feel terribly sorry for the friends and families of the victims and I hope those responsible will be found and put to trial very soon.

We went in to enforce US resolution 1441 and we could have gone in any time post Gulf War because Saddamn was violating that treaty so many times over. There have been plenty of terrorist attack before 9/11 but nothing was done about them because only a few were killed. Appeasement is not a policy for peace. The only other important issue outside of terrorism is stopping CHINA for us!!! Environment issues has had junk science thrown at it to stop growth and throwing more money at Africa won't help them. They need fair representation from their own governments and capitalism and have to end ultra tolerance for tribalism.

40 people are now reported dead. I have a feeling this number will go up. It's really sad.

PinkFeatherBoa
07-07-2005, 01:24 PM
:hug: :hug: for anyone who is affected by this, especially those around the London area.

Éowyn
07-07-2005, 01:28 PM
Nice to know that you're fine as well Rosie! :hug: :hug:

My sister wrote:




Fortunately She’s OK, but doesn’t know how is going to manage to go home.


sol hun i don't know if it helps at all i don't know where your sister is based or where she lives but they just announced on tv that the clipper service (thats the river boats) are free for the rest of the day so if people are stuck they can use the boats to get along the river then get a bus when they're outside zone 1!

i did post on a few threads about this but i'll post it here too that sarah (miss fairy) is okay she text me and dami to let us know.

Denaon
07-07-2005, 01:31 PM
I'm REALLY REALLY sorry for all the innocent people in London :hug:
But I feel sorry for all of us innocent people in the world.
This is not going to end soon, and we'll have plent of more victims.

I WANT THE FUCKERS THAT RULE THIS WORLD TO COMTEMPLATE THE SCENARIO AND THINK THINGS OVER!!! WE CANNOT CONTINUE LIKE THIS!!!!

:hug: and :kiss: to all british people again.

Éowyn
07-07-2005, 01:31 PM
please dirk respect the fact that some of us our in england and london and stop talking about going to war for this! we don't want that we just want to know our friends are safe this is not the time for you to start fights and arguments!

Dirk
07-07-2005, 01:33 PM
When I see some insensitve off topic remarks I must comment. I will hold my tonque because I know this is a liberal la la land.

Purple Rainbow
07-07-2005, 01:33 PM
We went in to enforce US resolution 1441 and we could have gone in any time post Gulf War because Saddamn was violating that treaty so many times over.

You apparently are not familiar with the Downing Street Memos, take some time to read it. It literally says that the US wanted to attack Iraq even though there was no legal ground or public support to do so. The strategy was to anger Saddam so much that he would not allow any weapon inspectors. It also says that the bombing of Southern Iraq were already started way before the actual war began.

http://www.downingstreetmemo.com/memos.html


There have been plenty of terrorist attack before 9/11 but nothing was done about them because only a few were killed. Appeasement is not a policy for peace. The only other important issue outside of terrorism is stopping CHINA for us!!!

What the hell does China have to do with anything?

Environment issues has had junk science thrown at it to stop growth

Not caring about environment is what got some of the smaller and greater civilizations of this world to end. Really, you should read Collapse by Jared Diamond. True eye opener. Our natural resources are depleting very quickly. I really like my grandchildren to be able to live in a world which is at least as habitable as our current one.

and throwing more money at Africa won't help them.

Yay! Let's watch an entire continent die and do nothing about it! :rolleyes:


40 people are now reported dead. I have a feeling this number will go up. It's really sad.

Yeah, I'm afraid the number will rise too. :sad:

sol
07-07-2005, 01:35 PM
sol hun i don't know if it helps at all i don't know where your sister is based or where she lives but they just announced on tv that the clipper service (thats the river boats) are free for the rest of the day so if people are stuck they can use the boats to get along the river then get a bus when they're outside zone 1!

i did post on a few threads about this but i'll post it here too that sarah (miss fairy) is okay she text me and dami to let us know.

Thanks for the info :hug:

She's at work in the Imperial College. The explosion happened fences that the subway station that she takes to go home and there is a Security operative right now.

A big :hug: to Sarah and all MTF posters from London

Denaon
07-07-2005, 01:36 PM
I don't think we should leave Iraq and Afghanistan now that we are there.
I think that the invasion of Iraq was an illegal and an unjustified act.
I also think that the war on terror thus far has done more harm than good.
I also think that there are more important issues to deal with in this world than terrorism.

Having said that I of course feel terribly sorry for the friends and families of the victims and I hope those responsible will be found and put to trial very soon.
Cannot agree more.

chrissiej
07-07-2005, 01:37 PM
Its still only 2 official fatalities, at Aldgate. There have only been 4 incidents, not 6. Apparently... I'm just freaking out at how I'm going to get back to the South West on Sunday.

jackieglover
07-07-2005, 01:41 PM
This is terrible news. Just woke up and saw this :sad: God bless to those in London.

Dirk
07-07-2005, 01:42 PM
Downingstreet memo is a fraud and it's not even the original one. The reporter got a copy one and was able to type whatever he wanted and make whatever changes he wanted. Until the revealer comes out with the actual one I am not buying it.

There are environmentalists and then eco wackos who are bascially commies using the environment as their drive issue. There have been climate reports from way back in the 1800s and they were days hotter than days we have now. It's all cycles in the earth. Oh did you hear the new Eco wacko ditribe? They were upset that the US has reduced so many of the pollutes in the air so the sun was actually reaching the ground faster and more of it and making it hotter. :lol: Oh and thanks to evil advancement in technology we are now able to discover oil in places where never knew were there. Soil bean and different kind of waste will take over eventually when it comes to creating crude oil.

US has given about 500 billion to Africa over 50 years. We have done enough. If you want to get money, then let's get the politicans who stole the money from africa and put that cash back it their nations treasuries.

Wednesday Addams
07-07-2005, 01:44 PM
Its still only 2 official fatalities, at Aldgate. There have only been 4 incidents, not 6. Apparently... I'm just freaking out at how I'm going to get back to the South West on Sunday.
Maybe they'll figure out alternate routes by then.

Éowyn
07-07-2005, 01:50 PM
dirk please have some goddamn respect :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

chrissie only teh 2 confirmed deaths fromaldgate but announcement is expected soon to ris ethat number to at least 45.

people are still trapped in kings cross people are being given operations on the platforms

and i still can't get hold of my best friend :sad: and for whatit's worth if i had not quit wimbledon early i would have been coming home today

Éowyn
07-07-2005, 01:51 PM
chrissie main line trains are being put back on now you'll have no problem getting ome on sunday :hug:

Dirk
07-07-2005, 01:51 PM
No Sky news says at least 45 are dead.

Purple Rainbow
07-07-2005, 01:52 PM
Downingstreet memo is a fraud and it's not even the original one. The reporter got a copy one and was able to type whatever he wanted and make whatever changes he wanted. Until the revealer comes out with the actual one I am not buying it.

There are environmentalists and then eco wackos who are bascially commies using the environment as their drive issue. There have been climate reports from way back in the 1800s and they were days hotter than days we have now. It's all cycles in the earth. Oh did you hear the new Eco wacko ditribe? They were upset that the US has reduced so many of the pollutes in the air so the sun was actually reaching the ground faster and more of it and making it hotter. :lol: Oh and thanks to evil advancement in technology we are now able to discover oil in places where never knew were there. Soil bean and different kind of waste will take over eventually when it comes to creating crude oil.

US has given about 500 billion to Africa over 50 years. We have done enough. If you want to get money, then let's get the politicans who stole the money from africa and put that cash back it their nations treasuries.

Let's see head-stuck-in-the-sand nationalist.
Okay, we'll just go on chopping rainforests, depleting our oil reserves, we'll continue overfishing, poluuting our air and water. We'll continue protecting our own markets and dumping our goods on African markets, leaving independent African farmers with no income. We'll watch how a continent dies by the millions, from curable diseases (because pharmaceutical companies refuse to make their medicine available for free to those who need it) or from hunger (while we throw tons of food away on a daily basis).

This is not about America versus the rest of the world as you seem to think. This is about humanity, helping and caring each other, even when their passport does not have your nationality on it.

And what on earth did yuo mean with that China reference a few posts ago? :confused:

crimson
07-07-2005, 01:53 PM
I was so shocked to hear about this. :sad: My sympathies to all those who were hurt and their families and friends. :sad:
My older cousin lives in London but as far as we know he is OK and was not caught up in this.

Glad to hear from the London based MTF members who have posted that you are OK :hug: :hug:

Meeek
07-07-2005, 01:56 PM
US has given about 500 billion to Africa over 50 years. We have done enough.

Okay off topic, but just wanna say that... ooohooooh wow, 50 billion? US gives the least amount each year... Small country's as mine, :angel: , give the most. Thank you very much.

On topic now.
This is just pure horror. I'm shocked and horrified...it's a mad mad sad world.

jackieglover
07-07-2005, 02:01 PM
FoxNews is reporting 45 dead and over 1000 injured (150 seriously injured). So sad, this number will only rise as the day continues.

chrissiej
07-07-2005, 02:01 PM
chrissie main line trains are being put back on now you'll have no problem getting ome on sunday :hug:

thanks JJ :hug: wonder whether the Heathrow express will be running as well :scratch: hopefully my cousins will meet me at H'row and I'll stay with them for a night which solves the issue. Airport security will be bad though, even more so because I'm flying in from an Arab country. :o

Sky news just said 2 confirmed dead, obviously will be a lot more, people dying from injuries I guess. This is so bad, and its so pointless. What do the terrorists think is going to happen? :o

Pancakesong
07-07-2005, 02:04 PM
Let's see head-stuck-in-the-sand nationalist.
Okay, we'll just go on chopping rainforests, depleting our oil reserves, we'll continue overfishing, poluuting our air and water. We'll continue protecting our own markets and dumping our goods on African markets, leaving independent African farmers with no income. We'll watch how a continent dies by the millions, from curable diseases (because pharmaceutical companies refuse to make their medicine available for free to those who need it) or from hunger (while we throw tons of food away on a daily basis).

This is not about America versus the rest of the world as you seem to think. This is about humanity, helping and caring each other, even when their passport does not have your nationality on it.

And what on earth did yuo mean with that China reference a few posts ago? :confused:

:yeah:

jackieglover
07-07-2005, 02:04 PM
There is plenty of good news in Iraq and Afganistan that you will never read or hear from the mainstream media.

This is true. The media is so slanted to one side that even some of my liberal friends can't stand it.

Meeek
07-07-2005, 02:05 PM
Sky news just said 2 confirmed dead, obviously will be a lot more, people dying from injuries I guess. This is so bad, and its so pointless. What do the terrorists think is going to happen? :o

I have no idea what or how terrorists think exactly, but don't they just wanna show how much power they can have by doing such things? Power in the sense of death, destruction, chaos and disorder... They definitly have achieved that.

:(

chrissiej
07-07-2005, 02:06 PM
Just saw Russian news, says 25 dead, but thats the Russians...;)

jackieglover
07-07-2005, 02:07 PM
A doctor said at least 90 dead at Aldgate Station. :sad:

chrissiej
07-07-2005, 02:08 PM
I have no idea what or how terrorists think exactly, but don't they just wanna show how much power they can have by doing such things? Power in the sense of death, destruction, chaos and disorder... They definitly have achieved that.

:(

I thought they tried to draw attention to their cause, but what is their cause exactly? and this isn't gonna attract sympathy. in the end the leaders of countries like the G8 will get seriously pissed off and do something bad...

jackieglover
07-07-2005, 02:11 PM
Some of the images from the tv are just unbearable to watch.

Meeek
07-07-2005, 02:11 PM
I thought they tried to draw attention to their cause, but what is their cause exactly? and this isn't gonna attract sympathy. in the end the leaders of countries like the G8 will get seriously pissed off and do something bad...

Yeah thought that too. But it seems like they've lost eye for their own cause and are only caught up in power and such.
I don't know... too bad though G8 will be all about terrorism now. Which is necessary ofcourse, but...
Whoever they are they're throwing in their own glasses.

tall_one
07-07-2005, 02:16 PM
:hug: for all the bristish posters, i hope you & yours are all okay :hug:


according to msnbc there is atleast 40 dead and 300 hurt :sad:
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/Components/Maps/Europe/London_underground/London_underground3.gif

the cat
07-07-2005, 02:24 PM
My thoughts and best wishes go out to the British people over this horrific terrorist attack. :sad: :hug:

Good post Meeek. Very sensisble. I don't know how society can defend against the terrorists unless you don't have a certain race of people in your country. But that would be targeting and stereotyping a certain race and no one wants to be accused of that. Fighting the war on terror and standing up to the terorists is admirable. But I don't know how we can win that war. :scratch:

PinkFeatherBoa
07-07-2005, 02:25 PM
Some of the images from the tv are just unbearable to watch.

I took one look at the image of the bus and it was already too much for me. I'm just listening now, the pictures are too painful.

I'm just glad that I didn't have to go into town today, I was last in areas close to where the bus exploded on Tuesday, collecting work from my old college nearby.

This is just too sad.

Kudz
07-07-2005, 02:29 PM
Police have confirmed 33 deaths.

But they can't confirm how many fatalities in bus explosion.

SwissMister1
07-07-2005, 02:48 PM
This is terrible news. My cousin worked in London for a few years and I've been there to visit, I even remember going through those underground stations.

They have announced that there will be soldiers and bomb-sniffing dogs at the metro stations here in Washington, probably many cities will start doing this.

Aleksa's Laydee
07-07-2005, 02:50 PM
i heard 45 deaths and over 1000 casualties :shrug:

Corinna
07-07-2005, 02:54 PM
it is shocking :eek:
i feel so sorry for those :hug: :sobbing:

Raquel
07-07-2005, 03:36 PM
I hope everyone in London from MTF is OK. It's just awful :sad: I just got home from work after being almost too scared to leave. I live and work in North London so was not too close to the explosions. They said not to leave the house on the news but my brother said he was coming to get me anyway. It's just terrifying and those poor people :sad: :sad: It makes me angry that innocent people - mothers, fathers, sons, daughters - have again been killed by terrorists like this.

lunahielo
07-07-2005, 03:46 PM
:sad: :sad: :sad: :sad:

nenadeSergio
07-07-2005, 03:46 PM
It´s really shocking. I keep listening to the news and it hurts to see so many innocent lives lost.... Where the world is going, I ask. :sad:

RodLo
07-07-2005, 03:47 PM
Enough is enough...when will this all just stop? http://bestsmileys.com/sad/6.gif I just don't understand the people that actually carry out the acts, let alone plan them.

I hope everyone here is okay, as well as all your families and friends. My prayers will be with you all tonight. :hug: :hug: :hug:

sonia
07-07-2005, 03:48 PM
This is awful!! :sad: I hope all MTF british ppl are ok.
My sympathies to the families of the victims :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

joeb_uk
07-07-2005, 03:53 PM
it won't help you to catch the people who planted the bomb, i'm telling this for sure.
they need to catch the people who send them to place the bombs there and the responsibles for the terror attack.
But i can say that won't be easy in london, cause there can be regular muslim man that someone incite him to place a bomb. and there are many muslims in london as far as i know (?).
I have nothing with muslim people but people in the mosques sometimes making them to do such things.
Exactly, but really - is there a chance of them finding them :shrug:

Yes there are loads of muslims in london

joeb_uk
07-07-2005, 03:55 PM
i heard 45 deaths and over 1000 casualties :shrug:
Steady on there, abit of gossip it seems. Dont believe everything you hear!

Meeek
07-07-2005, 04:00 PM
Exactly, but really - is there a chance of them finding them :shrug:

Yes there are loads of muslims in london

Loads of Muslims who are very much against these actions I might add.

Shabazza
07-07-2005, 04:02 PM
Brilliant timing. For once, the attention of the whole world was directed to help Africa fight hunger and poverty. Then those Al Qaeda fucks do this and all we'll here for the next weeks is Dubya and his lapdog Blair saying how we have to step up the war on terror (which is going brilliantly, Afganistan and Iraq are beacons of safety and freedom!). :rolleyes:

My sympathies to the families of the victims of this horrible attack.
You're so right. :mad:
the worlds just getting worse and worse

All my best wishes and sympathies to the victims and there families :hug: :hug:

I'm so sad and angry - it's just awful :sad:

1sun
07-07-2005, 04:03 PM
Steady on there, abit of gossip it seems. Dont believe everything you hear!

thats under mate.i just saw the news and they did a break down of the deaths. all in all 125 or so dead and thats not includin the bus bombing. 150 minor injured, 90 serious. :sad:

Kristen
07-07-2005, 04:19 PM
:hug: to all my Pommie buddies.
I don't know what to say yet, I still feel like I'm watching a movie. :sad:

gooner88
07-07-2005, 04:21 PM
My thoughts and prayers go out to anyone who has been affected by this tragedy.
I hope all the MTF members from London and the U.K are safe.
I don't have a car, so I rely on public transport to get around London. It's so scary. :sad:

undomiele
07-07-2005, 04:32 PM
Sigh. Just one of those days you wish you weren't human. :sad:

snaillyyy
07-07-2005, 04:51 PM
My thoughts and prayers with all affected by this terrible events :hug: I hope everyone here is ok :hug: :hug: :hug:

willie
07-07-2005, 04:59 PM
im sorry for this horrible events.
i hope london people can recover from this:)

alfonsojose
07-07-2005, 05:09 PM
:sad: :speakles: I fell in love wtih London after my great week there. It hurts even more when the names and the places are now familiar to you and bring such good memories :tears: a big :hug: for all UK posters

freesbee
07-07-2005, 05:27 PM
Why oh why can't the world just be a happy place??

These things make you lose your faith in humanity.

A big hug for all UK posters :hug: :hug: and my sympathy to all Londoners...

Kudz
07-07-2005, 05:30 PM
At the moment 37 people have been confirmed dead, 1000+ injured, 150 seriously injured.

-SaFiinsBabY-
07-07-2005, 05:35 PM
big :hug: to all british people ... I'm so sorry ... my thoughts are with you ... :sad:

undomiele
07-07-2005, 05:50 PM
Al-Qaida in Europe claims responsibility for blasts

Mark Tran and Donald MacLeod
Thursday July 7, 2005

A group called The Secret Organisation of al-Qaida in Europe today said it carried out the series of blasts in London in retaliation for Britain's involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The group's statement appeared on a website popular with Islamic militants, according to Elaph, a secular Arabic-language news website, and Der Spiegel magazine in Berlin, which both published the text on their sites.

The statement, which also threatened attacks against Italy and Denmark, said: "Rejoice, Islamic nation. Rejoice, Arab world. The time has come for vengeance against the Zionist crusader government of Britain in response to the massacres Britain committed in Iraq and Afghanistan."

The authenticity of the message could not be immediately confirmed, but al-Qaida in Europe also claimed responsibility for the last major terror attack in Europe: a string of bombs that hit commuter trains in Madrid, Spain, in March 2004 that killed 191 people.

The group appeared to boast that it had spent some time planning the attack.

"We have repeatedly warned the British government and people. We have fulfilled our promise and carried out our blessed military raid in Britain after our Mujahideen exerted strenuous efforts over a long period of time to ensure the success of the raid," the website posting read.

Michael Clarke, director of the Centre for Defence Studies at King's College, London, said six bombs would mean at least 24 people were involved in planting them in a targeted operation.

The fact that London had been hit when the resources of the security forces were focused on the G8 summit at Gleneagles showed thoughtful preparation by terrorists.

"It will have been quite a big plot and months in the planning," said Prof Clarke, who declined to speculate who was behind the attacks at this stage.

The danger of further explosions during the day could not be ruled out, he added. "The way to really bring a city to a halt is to explode some more bombs when the rescue services are running around."

Last month, Ken Jones, the chairman of the Association of Chief Police Officers' terrorism committee and chief constable of Sussex, said Britain would remain a prime target for terrorists. "There is an inevitable targeting of the United Kingdom and UK interests abroad," Mr Jones told a conference on terrorism organised by the Royal United Services Institute in London. "The threat will endure for the foreseeable future."

JuchuPati
07-07-2005, 05:52 PM
my condolences to all the London people.

when I heard about the blasts this morning, I almost couldn't believe this terrible stuff happened again.
now, I really feel so down, cos I remember all the horror we had to live last march 11th in Madrid, so I can understand the Londoners feelings right now. :sad:

*Ljubica*
07-07-2005, 06:05 PM
Just wanted to say thanks again to all those people giving their condolences to us here in London. I am touched by the many, many PMs and Reps etc I have had from posters here on MTF - some were from friends - others from people I have never "met" before ,but they knew I lived nearby and wanted to show they cared. Thank you so much :hug:

It is only just hitting me how close I came today - my office is so close to the Edgware Road bomb site - 10 minutes earlier and I would have been on that station - two of my work colleagues were on one of the affected trains -thank God they are OK - shock, cuts and bruises but nothing serious.

Today I was amazingly calm - now I am home I admit that I am really shaky and tearful - but I know that it is just natural shock and everyone here will be fine.

Love to you all from London :hug:

nermo
07-07-2005, 06:08 PM
my most sincere consolation to British ppl..and to all those innocent victims.. and to every innocent person all over the world...who is exposed to this kind of terror which surely doesn't differentiate between ppl whether they re old or young. and no matter whether they re muslims, christians or jewish..terror in its different shapes hasn't differentiated between PPl in London and not even arabs or Muslims in Iraq where these explosions happen everyday and today with London explosions, The Egyptian Embassador was assissinated in Iraq..

and it's a must to say that no religion ever , ever has called for this destruction ...and absolutely not the true and real Islamic religion where GOD Mentions

"whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind."

chrissiej
07-07-2005, 06:13 PM
Rosie - glad to hear you're okay. :hug:

Fee
07-07-2005, 06:20 PM
thats under mate.i just saw the news and they did a break down of the deaths. all in all 125 or so dead and thats not includin the bus bombing. 150 minor injured, 90 serious. :sad:

Wow, you need to find a new source for your news. That is waaaaaayyy off...

This was just about the first thing I heard when I woke up this morning and turned on the radio. I am a bit stunned, and obviously very sickened by it. Thankfully, my relatives in London are okay, and it seems like we have heard from all of the London based MTF-ers. My heart goes out to the confirmed victims and their families.


Oh yeah, Dirk, get a clue.

whosnext
07-07-2005, 06:27 PM
All my sympathies are out to the people of London.
Now I am remembering Sept. 11th as a New Yorker. People in London are deftinitely going to be frightened to use public transportation for a period of time. Now imagine living in New York on Sept. 11th and everyone was afraid just to go outside because of the thousands of people killed and the planes, not just to use public transportation. Many people were scared even at home, because they lived in high-rise apartment buildings. No place felt safe for those people.
I hope the people of London recover psychologically, even though the terror attacks were smaller compared to the extremity of those in the U.S. Still the attacks willl affect the people no matter what, any terrorist attack will.
Stay strong.

Fee
07-07-2005, 06:28 PM
Rosie, have a drink, seriously. Just a small one. And stick around MTF if you need to talk. :hug:

Tricky_Forehand
07-07-2005, 06:44 PM
My thoughts are with those in London and those others that may be affected by this.

Rogiman
07-07-2005, 06:57 PM
It's no secret who the people in charge of this are as well as their motives, perhaps it's time to stop being so damn tolerant and start rethinking what kind of people European countries let in and how much "cultural" freedom they give their communities' so called "leaders", who don't even hide their main ambitions in the media.

Religion will eventually ruin this world, no question at all.

Condolences to the people of London.

Jim Jones
07-07-2005, 07:00 PM
Britain is way too tolerant with Islamist extremists who should be treated the same way as Neo-Nazi and Farcist groups. Britain should relaize this and crack down on them. When are the ygoing to deal with notorious places such as Finsbury Park.

I♥PsY@Mus!c
07-07-2005, 07:09 PM
Feel so sad for the victims and their families. :sad:
They guys are too extreme,what can we do? :awww:

khyber
07-07-2005, 07:16 PM
Religion will eventually ruin this world, no question at all.

Condolences to the people of London.
Amen to that brother. Both thoughts are well said.

Rogiman
07-07-2005, 07:26 PM
They guys are too extreme,what can we do? :awww:Stop accommodating them, to begin with.

Not that I wish anyone to go through that, but at least now more and more people understand what we in Israel have to deal with.

Perhaps one day all those sophisticated Europeans will understand why we don't actually send our enemies flowers instead of fighting them, who knows.

Socket
07-07-2005, 07:27 PM
Stop accommodating them, to begin with.

Not that I wish anyone to go through that, but at least now more and more people understand what we in Israel have to deal with.

Perhaps one day all those sophisticated Europeans will understand why we don't actually send our enemies flowers instead of fighting them, who knows.
Bravo. Keep up the good fight, my friend.

nermo
07-07-2005, 08:04 PM
Everything is possible when the biggest nations in the world with the biggest army gatherd together. all they need to do is have no mercy and no humanitarian.
there can be regular muslim man that someone incite him to place a bomb :confused:

anyaway, You can beat terror organization by ruin he's basis. they just need to catch the real people that responseble for that. Israel for example killed Yasin and rantisi and the Hamas got much less power. i'm expecting from US to finally find the people that leading al-qaeda, if they found saddam this is possible too.
posted by nimrodg..
Religion will eventually ruin this world, no question at all.posted by Rogiman

Guys there, what this reveals is that you have something wrong in your infos and culture not only about Islam but also about the whole Religion issue..and you better start taking it from better sources..Terror doesn't surely come from religious ppl what ever their religion is , be it Islam ,christianity or Jewish religion..cuz there's nothing in what soever religion that by any means call for scaring innocent ppl..and killing them ...
it all comes from ignorance...when ppl just refuse to listen to each other and feel others' rights to live in decent conditions that just respect their humanity ..ignorance, disperacy and failure to succeed , to see any hope in the future , get a person to be a weak organism and he can easily get brain washed and filled with ideas like shit..and he just comes like a bomb which explodes in any time..and a bomb of this type has no religion and has no nation...if u heard about ..ETA organisation, hindu explosions, and lots of other places in every known spot of the world..we never hear about religion coming there , al queda is no exception..it's loaded with ppl who are loaded with hopeless and ignorant ideas..and GOD knows they 're the least knowing about ISlam or Any other Religion..and even the least wise guys know it'snot and 'll not be solved by invading countries or throwing missiles here and there..

Rogiman
07-07-2005, 08:17 PM
Be it whatever you think it is, nermo, when those people preach in mosques, persuading young fellows to explode themselves in public and promise them 90 something virgins in their next lives as their reward (whoever is fool enough to believe in such crap :rolleyes: ) I find religion somewhat relevant to the issue.

nermo
07-07-2005, 08:28 PM
Be it whatever you think it is, nermo, when those people preach in mosques, persuading young fellows to explode themselves in public and promise them 90 something virgins in their next lives as their reward (whoever is fool enough to believe in such crap ) I find religion somewhat relevant to the issue.posted by Rogiman

u've said it yourself Rogi..It's a such a crap..Being said in a mosque or a temple doesn't make it religion..cuz religion ( in all forms) is not a crap told by some disperate ignorant ppl ..and it would be an equal ignorance from our side when we just sit and believe that what's happening in this cruel world is related to Religion..the only way i see it related is that..it comes from misunderstanding religion..

Iheartandy&roger
07-07-2005, 08:36 PM
Fuck these terrorists who the fuck do they think they are if it was them for sure they better fucking watch it now...... :mad: just a day or two after they won the olympics too! boy do they know how to ruin happiness but misery always loves company...... my condolences to all those who lost someone in this horrible attack and to all those injured those fucking bastards will get it cuz what goes around comes around! :devil:

LuckyAC
07-07-2005, 08:39 PM
Killing may not be an intended part of religion, but still religious fervor leads to killing, just as any differences, like ethnicity. In some ways, it is the worst, because the religion simultaneously leads to a lack of proper fear of death. Whatever the theoretical meaning of religion, it is obvious the world would be much better off without it.

Obviously Islam is not the only, or even the worst, religion for killing. Millions have been killed in the name of Christianity (Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, witches and heretics burned) and though it is clearly much better now, there is still killing in Ireland, bombing of abortion clinics and things like the Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda. Economics prosperity does much to both curb the excesses of religion and destroy it completely, so hopefully Arabic countries will prosper and Islam will enter into a more peaceful phase and decline, like Christianity has.

DanEd
07-07-2005, 08:49 PM
i agree nermo :hatoff:
posted by Rogiman

u've said it yourself Rogi..It's a such a crap..Being said in a mosque or a temple doesn't make it religion..cuz religion ( in all forms) is not a crap told by some disperate ignorant ppl ..and it would be an equal ignorance from our side when we just sit and believe that what's happening in this cruel world is related to Religion..the only way i see it related is that..it comes from misunderstanding religion..

nermo
07-07-2005, 08:57 PM
i can't see any contradiction between prosperity and Religion..on the contrary..religion and absolutely speaking about Islam also encourages ppl to work hard and gain their own living ..cuz it was a long time discovered that poverty and failure to find decent work turn ppl to hatered and empty minded creatures and then it makes them easily injected with any ideas from hill...taking a look..terror comes when failure , lose of hope and poverty arise..and to make it easier ,they find their selves an issue to argue aboutand persuade themselves they 're defending it ..and this century's issue is religion..

Fee
07-07-2005, 09:19 PM
Its not 'religion' its 'religious extremism' The people who can take passages of their holy books and turn them into destructive orders. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a buddhist somewhere who can twist those teachings around to justify violence....

I just wish that the voices of the many religious leaders of all groups (Muslin, Christian, etc) that are calling for peace were just as loud as the few who call for violence.

maratski
07-07-2005, 09:46 PM
My condolences to all people who lost their loved ones :sad:

I'm glad to hear Rosie and the other posters are doing ok :hug:

I condemn terrorism and do not like all the things going on in the world right now, but in a way I can also see why some people are doing certain things. I understand people, including radical muslims, are pissed at some western countries, but violence just ain't the key :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad:

maratski
07-07-2005, 09:49 PM
Fuck these terrorists who the fuck do they think they are if it was them for sure they better fucking watch it now...... :mad: just a day or two after they won the olympics too! boy do they know how to ruin happiness but misery always loves company...... my condolences to all those who lost someone in this horrible attack and to all those injured those fucking bastards will get it cuz what goes around comes around! :devil:

Don't jump on me for making this cruel remark, but isn't something that has gone around coming around? When you condemn terrorists such as the ones linked to Al Qaida, be fair enough to condemn the western world for what they have done and are doing in Afghanistan, Iraq, the Palestinian state....

DDrago2
07-07-2005, 09:51 PM
I'm not sure that religion is what this is about. It simply seems that some shit has to happen in the world, on this way or the other. So unlucky for those victims...

You don't need any religion as an excuse for masacring around, although you also can have it - what is the real difference?

maratski
07-07-2005, 09:53 PM
Its not 'religion' its 'religious extremism' The people who can take passages of their holy books and turn them into destructive orders. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a buddhist somewhere who can twist those teachings around to justify violence....

I just wish that the voices of the many religious leaders of all groups (Muslin, Christian, etc) that are calling for peace were just as loud as the few who call for violence.

Religion is peaceful, religious people aren't. I often wonder why religious people aren't peaceful anymore. So many people who are older then me definitely ain't wiser then me :sad:

The calls for peace are loud, but since people and media are selective it will take a long time and many victims to be heard...

Denaon
07-07-2005, 09:54 PM
Don't jump on me for making this cruel remark, but isn't something that has gone around coming around? When you condemn terrorists such as the ones linked to Al Qaida, be fair enough to condemn the western world for what they have done and are doing in Afghanistan, Iraq, the Palestinian state....
I taped my mouth not to post the exact same thing.....thanks for this ;)

Nimrodg
07-07-2005, 09:56 PM
posted by Rogiman

u've said it yourself Rogi..It's a such a crap..Being said in a mosque or a temple doesn't make it religion..cuz religion ( in all forms) is not a crap told by some disperate ignorant ppl ..and it would be an equal ignorance from our side when we just sit and believe that what's happening in this cruel world is related to Religion..the only way i see it related is that..it comes from misunderstanding religion..

I'll tell you what's the problem. my problem is not with muslim people . i accept that there are different religions in the world. but if the islamic people are against terrorisem they need to show it. and i'm talking about that someone from this countries will come and criticize those attacks. If i'm not mistaken , your country leader, Mubarak did that couple of times. but i mean someone who really related to the religion.
how come that the israeli army caughts every month suicide bombers who are 13 and 14 years old(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).
The fact is that there is terror organisation in the politics of lebanon ( Hizbullah) and that there are countries that supporting terror organisations.
The islamic countries needs to take an act against the terror organisations, otherwise, i won't believe that they are against this kind of incidents.

chrissiej
07-07-2005, 10:04 PM
Blair : When they try to intimidate us, we will not be intimidated, when they seek to change our country, our way of life by these methods, we will not be changed.

When they try to divide our people or weaken our resolve, we will not be divided and our resolve will hold firm.

We will show by our spirit and dignity and by a quiet and true strength that there is in the British people, that our values will long outlast theirs.

This is a very sad day for the British people but we will hold true to the British way of life.

Jim Jones
07-07-2005, 10:06 PM
My condolences to all people who lost their loved ones :sad:

I'm glad to hear Rosie and the other posters are doing ok :hug:

I condemn terrorism and do not like all the things going on in the world right now, but in a way I can also see why some people are doing certain things. I understand people, including radical muslims, are pissed at some western countries, but violence just ain't the key :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad:
Radical Muslims may be pissed at Western nations but I am pissed at them and wish them nothing but death & destruction.
As for Israel I feel that tensions will get worse there. Islamist groups are encouraging the Palestininans to have as many kids as possible. The Gaza strip has the highest population growth rate in the world. Gaza now has over a million Palestininans in it though in 67 when Israel seized it the number was far less. They want to outnumber the Israelis and using the birth waepon to get at the Jews. I find that sad.

maratski
07-07-2005, 10:08 PM
I'll tell you what's the problem. my problem is not with muslim people . i accept that there are different religions in the world. but if the islamic people are against terrorisem they need to show it. and i'm talking about that someone from this countries will come and criticize those attacks. If i'm not mistaken , your country leader, Mubarak did that couple of times. but i mean someone who really related to the religion.
how come that the israeli army caughts every month suicide bombers who are 13 and 14 years old(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).
The fact is that there is terror organisation in the politics of lebanon ( Hizbullah) and that there are countries that supporting terror organisations.
The islamic countries needs to take an act against the terror organisations, otherwise, i won't believe that they are against this kind of incidents.

Can you please blame it on the fucking media who do not want to show what the arab world is trying to stop terrorism!!! Tons of people have been arrested in Morocco only and the Moroccans work closely together with Spain in order to prosecute the terrorists, I'm sure there's a whole lot more going on, but that just doesn't get viewers glued in front of the tv and neither does it help to sell newspapers...We live in a world with many selfish people and many people who do not want to use the brain they have been given...Deal with it :sad:

I choose not to comment on the situation in Israel and the Palestinian state. As long as both parties do not admit they have BOTH been wrong the situation will not change.

maratski
07-07-2005, 10:14 PM
Radical Muslims may be pissed at Western nations but I am pissed at them and wish them nothing but death & destruction.

I wish death and destruction on them to, but you cannot blame them for feeling that they aren't being properly treated in this world. Their method to show they're discontent is plane wrong, but you cannot say they are wrong when feeling the western world is trying to kill Islam. Do you think the US government for instance has been TOTALLY neutral in let's say the peace process in the Middle East? I don't think so! This fact and some other facts have made the hate of Al Qaida so strong. Once again I hate their methods, but partially understand where they're coming from.

Jim Jones
07-07-2005, 10:14 PM
The arab world is not being serious enough in trying to stop terrorism. Islamism is firmly implanted in most of the Arab world including secular nations such as Syria, Yemen etc.. I won't even mention Saudi Arabia. Why is Al queda so strong? Because it recieves funding from various Islamist organizations and even political parties. Opposition secular groups are not tolerated in Arab nations but Islamist groups are. When I see how dysfunctional the Arab world is I have to say I'm glad that U.S. troops toppled the 'secular' regime of Saddam Hussein.

chrissiej
07-07-2005, 10:19 PM
I'm currently in the UAE, and one comment my Dad made today - "it would take one attack here and they would lose all their funding," because some people here finance terrorism, and Saudi. Its fucked up, frankly.

I still don't understand what they're trying to achieve by this...am I just being dumb...is this supposed to help their cause? :shrug:

Nimrodg
07-07-2005, 10:26 PM
Can you please blame it on the fucking media who do not want to show what the arab world is trying to stop terrorism!!! Tons of people have been arrested in Morocco only and the Moroccans work closely together with Spain in order to prosecute the terrorists, I'm sure there's a whole lot more going on, but that just doesn't get viewers glued in front of the tv and neither does it help to sell newspapers...We live in a world with many selfish people and many people who do not want to use the brain they have been given...Deal with it :sad:

I choose not to comment on the situation in Israel and the Palestinian state. As long as both parties do not admit they have BOTH been wrong the situation will not change.

I don't have problem with morocco, many israelis are visiting there. i'm talking about bashar assad, about hatami, syria , there are many terror organizations in syria and iran and they don't do a thing about it. the terror got basis from some islamic extremist nations, for sure.

and about the last one - meanwhile that israel prepares to move settlements from gaza, the palestinians don't do much to stop the terror, and to DESTROY all the terror organizations

Nimrodg
07-08-2005, 12:15 AM
Hamas spokesman Moussa Abu Marzouk condemned the bombings, saying "Targeting civilians in their transport means and lives is denounced and rejected."

I don't know if i should laugh or cry. one of the biggest terror organizations in this area that responsible for couple of BUS explosions
:( :( :( :mad: :mad: :mad:

willie
07-08-2005, 12:37 AM
for british posters:
i know is a sad day, i know that perhaps non of you want to post today(but many of you are reading;)), i know you might think we(the rest) write things without knowing, i know that perhaps some of you cryed today, thats okay cause is a part of yourselves that was injured today, is your city, your london, that also is our london, the worlds london.
but tommorrow is a day to continue your lifes without watching the past, cause thats what the great ones do, follow to the future with more greatness than before, cause as a famous quote saids "Fear not for the future, weep not for the past.";)

willie:wavey:

DanEd
07-08-2005, 12:56 AM
Moussa Abu Marzouk is not worse than Ariel Sharon
Hamas spokesman Moussa Abu Marzouk condemned the bombings, saying "Targeting civilians in their transport means and lives is denounced and rejected."

I don't know if i should laugh or cry. one of the biggest terror organizations in this area that responsible for couple of BUS explosions
:( :( :( :mad: :mad: :mad:

Chris Seahorse
07-08-2005, 01:16 AM
A few things I want to say about today's events. First of all I feel very proud of how everyone in this city has handled the very difficult circumstances today. Politicians (most of whom I do not generally support), police, the media, security and the public have all caried themselves with dignity, care, a real sense of responsiblity and compassion. Londoners are very stoic people and while alot of people where I work were concerned about how they would get home, tomorrow I'm sure everyone will be back at work, many using the tubes which are supposed to be running again tomorrow morning. We are not easily detered or frightened here. Having said this I am lucky not to have been directly affected by this disaster or (at least thus far) known anyone who was. My heart goes out to all those who have been hurt or killed or known people who are.

I also want to make a couple of comments on some of the things said in this thread. First of all I really do think we need to make a strong distinction between the war in Afghanistan and that in Iraq. While I agree with Dirk that now we are in Iraq we need to stay there in order to prevent Iraq ending up another Taliban regime that is absolutely the only thing I agree with Dirk about.

The simple fact is had we not Invaded Iraq there would never have been any danger of this happening in the first place. Saddam Hussain was never a danger to the western world and when we invaded Iraq we took our eye off our real battle which is defeating Al Qaeda. We also gifted Al Qaeda a new breeding ground and gave them ammunition to fuel their hatred of the western world. Not very smart.

We also need to make a clear distinction between the Muslim people and the fundalmentalism of Al Qaeda. There are a lot of Muslim people in London. Probably half the shops I frequent in London are run by people of Middle East origin. Not all these are Muslim, many are Hindu, Zoroastrian and other religions too. But all are kind friendly warm people I enjoy chatting with. These people are not at all different from me. They enjoy music, sport and the freedoms we take for granted in London.

Lets not forget Al Qaeda have caused more misery and suffering to the moderate Muslim world even than they have to the western world. When people talk about us invading Afghanistan I can only ask If you would rather live in a fundalmentalist state where kite flying, music, cinema and even (gasp!!!) tennis was forbidden or a country run by Hamid Karzai, a courageous man who truely seems to me to have the best interests of the people of Afghanistan at his heart. In order to take away Al Qaeda's homebase we had to invade Afghanistan. Sadly and paradoxically in invading Iraq we gave them the oppotunity to create a new homebase.

Golfnduck
07-08-2005, 01:42 AM
I'm glad to hear that MTF posters in London are okay. This is such a tragedy, hopefully this brings people together to stand up against terrorism.

undomiele
07-08-2005, 02:04 AM
In my opinion, and Im speaking as a cold student of foreign policy, we have definitely walked into a new age of foreign policy. What happened in london confirms a rather ugly side to human nature, but a very important one that will affect both how and for which reasons future wars and invasions are waged. I think it is all very interesting. Let me explain.

Let me state here that I fully believe, as was actually stated on Al-Qaeda related websites, that the terrorist bombing in London was in retaliation for British involvement in Iraq's invasion as well as to make a rather solid point to the world leaders gathered in Scotland. I don't believe this has anything to do with the Olympics, as some ppl are saying -it is practically short of impossible to organise such a well-coordinated hit like this in 24 hours. As the article I posted beforehand indicates, these bombings took several months of preparation and involved at least some 24/25 people - you don't commit yourselves to such a risky plan if it was just as likely that London wouldn't be landing the bid at all. No, Im 100% sure this wasn't about the Olympics - in Al-Qaeda's mind that was just a "bonus".

The Al-Qaeda related websites, which the media and the government are not addressing -notice how Blair is completely avoiding even remotely pinning this on the UK's role in Iraq - clearly and openly state the bombing, like it was for Spain, is the third in a string of retaliatory measures that will include, in their words, other "allies", ie: Denmark and Italy. If this happens, and Germany and France remain unaffected, then you will know this has always been about Iraq and the West's treatment of the Middle East.

This marks a new stage in International Relations. Throughout the 20th century, when military technology escalated, war consisted of 2 stages. The first pre-atom bomb stage consisted of Powerful nations primarily going at it with eachother, ie: WWar's I and II. After the atomic bomb came out on the market, which all the first world countries promptly acquired, inter-1st world country fighting was no longer possible. I mean, no nation in its right mind would ever directly bomb a country that is known to possess nuclear weapons. That has been the open reality of it, despite the so-called trumped out psychological popular "fear" of the Cold War --which both Americans and Russian politicians exploited to cow their peoples capacities to question their govts IMO -- the atomic bombs behind the Cold War had, in fact, ensured the longest period of peace between 1st world nations for the first time in history.

But that did not prevent the powerful from extending their battles to 3rd World Countries in the post-atomic age. There is no doubt in my mind that the US, for example, would not have invaded Korea and Vietnam if these people's govts had had nukes. The same for France in Indochina. Or military excursions and bombings afterwards in Yugoslavia, Somalia, Tibet, Haiti, Malvinas (Falklands), Colombia, Guatemala, Afghanistan etc and most recently, Iraq. Do you see the pattern here?? Only defenseless, atomic weaponless countries have been directly affected in war by the 1st world for the past 50 or something years and why? Because the rich countries could perfectly get away with it and boy did they know it.

The truth is *ALL* the G8 countries have bombed, destroyed, killed, napalmed, pillaged, tortured citizens of defenseless countries for a long time now simply because they knew they could get away with it, that there wouldn't be any real repercussions, any slapping of the hand, anything to make them stop feeling they had an essential right to do whatever they wanted in other countries. Its the law of jungle so to speak. The one who has the power makes the rules.

G8 government leaders knew their own people wouldn't really ultimately care at all about what they were doing in other countries so long as they kept the media from exposing what was really going on and that still largely remained the case until Sept 11. All other events, even Vietnam, was mostly swept under the carpet and didn't persuade G8 leaders that they couldn't still get away with it in other parts of the world. And so it went till the WTC collapsed in NY.

I find it rather fitting that 9-11 happened in the first year of the new millenium - it marked a real beginning as to how things are going to be like for a long time in International Relations. For the first time ever, and for the next several years in what will be the first unprecedented attacks on HOME-SOIL of 1st world countries, US, UK, Spain, and believe me others will follow. The impoverished region of the Middle East is hitting back and retaliating where it hurts, and the 1st World PUBLIC, who actually have good intentions, is standing up and noticing, much to the absolute chagrin of their pro-invasion politicians.

Its a complete disaster to have the voting public see and understand how a bunch of elusive sheepherders in Iraq and Afghanistan can actually pack a punch on home soil, if you look at it from a politicians point of view. Before they "could get away" with what has been an illegal occupation, but at least now, as it was the case for Spain and increasingly presently so in America (and Im interested to see how this will pan out for the UK and Blair), the pro-war leaders are not getting away with it. They are realising that home-soil acts of terrorisms, as 1st world politicians are currently realising, can cost them their jobs - just look at what at did in kicking out the conservative pro-war leaders in Spain and the bad, bad poll numbers for Republicans in the US. And that is what the terrorist's timing for the G8 summit is about. Its about Al-Qaeda saying that if you G8 leaders hit us in the Middle East, we WILL hit back and do everything in our power to knock you out of office. And that if you choose to not fuck with us in Middle East, as future hits in ONLY pro-war countries will undoubtedly show, then you won't be targets, ie: France and Germany.

Thats my theory, at least.

Its really sad. I completely, absolutely, oppose and hate terrorism. But in terms of making an impression on the people's minds it is effective. Raw human nature dictates that you will always be less likely to pick a fight with a guy who can hit back, then one who simply can't. Unfortunately, that is the only language bullies understand - that there can be homesoil consequences for acts govts commit abroad - and that is a lesson G8 leaders are beginning to understand, at least in regards to the Middle East.

Im 100% sure European and American leaders and their people - the smart ones at least :rolleyes: - will think twice before starting another adventure in the Middle East as the terrorist attacks continue to pile up against the "invader" countries. Its not like these guys aren't patient and willing. They will retaliate. And not much can really stop them. But so it is. We are not really meant to control everything that happens to us in the real worldand hopefully, this will make policymakers understand, for once and hopefully forever, that ultimately you do reap what you sow.

But thats the path we're travelling out on whether we like it or not. There must be consequences for every decision we make, as a people, as a country and as members of the human race - whether its war, the Environment, discrimination eg: slavery in the past, etc.

The sad thing is it didnt have to be this way. I think the masses could have done a lot more to have rectified the situation. How the Brits can have a system where the Prime Minister can go to a voluntary war against 70% of his population's wishes is a fatal problem to the system that the people have to fight to change. That should not be allowed under any kind of circumstance!

The American framers also only intended Congress to authorize War, not the White House. They knew it was important that the people themselves have the power to ultimately decide against whom they should fight and for what reasons. But that has been casually ignored, and on purpose by the political class, even when its right there in black and white in the US constitution. It really is up to the people to change that.

So people do have a role in preventing their govts from abusing their powers. The question is, will they step up to the plate?

Haute
07-08-2005, 04:10 AM
I just finished a class on international relations last semester, and I think we've reached a scary point in history when we have to consider terrorists as main actors in setting the international relations between countries.

nermo
07-08-2005, 09:04 AM
The arab world is not being serious enough in trying to stop terrorism posted by jim jones

no one in charge in any of the hot areas is taking it seriously...
throwing ppl in prisons and camps like Guantanmo , abogharib and thousands of other unknown prisons in different spots in arab and western areas,( have just been lucky to know these two names) , without even trying to investigate their honest involvement in any political issue..and leaving them or torturing them for years without any care to search for the truth ..'ll not make terror decline, it generates generations of hatered and confusion..about everything and everyone..when arab governments take it seriously..it means they try to give thier ppl the chance to live in decent conditions..to help them find their way in work, health , and Educating them with noinfluences and no fearand no huge gaps between rich and poor in the same country..when ppl understand the real and true definitions of things, ,and when ppl taking charge in western countries start to learn not to rule the world with double faced different principles acc to their greed in oil or power or whatever it is, that's when terror starts to decline..
Islamist groups are encouraging the Palestininans to have as many kids as possible. The Gaza strip has the highest population growth rate in the world. Gaza now has over a million Palestininans in it though in 67 when Israel seized it the number was far less. They want to outnumber the Israelis and using the birth waepon to get at the Jews. I find that sad.posted by jim jones

well, it's not a place to argue about palestine , but try to live under occupation for more than 50 years with daily chances to lose ur job ,ur house, ur family, try to live with the zero chances to live a decent life like anyother human for more than 50 years..after that, u 're welcome to discuss the palestine behaviour in one of the smallest countryand the poorest area of the world..

Nimrodg
07-08-2005, 09:17 AM
Moussa Abu Marzouk is not worse than Ariel Sharon

The hamas sending suicide bombers to HARM innocent people. Sharon, and israel got the right to defend from terror. i'm sorry that we don't giving to the palestinians flowers..

but the fact is that since israel used the fence, the amounts of terror attacks got down. I think that life of people is much important than quality of life.
Sharon did mistakes but he is not a terrorist.
Yasser Arafat was a terrorist that he is one of the responsibles to Munich 1972 Massacare.
I suggest that if you don't know the whole facts about this area so don't comment, cause i lived in a fear couple of years. No one, even if he hates israeli's has the right to killing innocent people just because they are jews.
and i assure you that there are some that killed kids with a machine gun and they even don't feel sorry about that.

Nimrodg
07-08-2005, 09:23 AM
well, it's not a place to argue about palestine , but try to live under occupation for more than 50 years with daily chances to lose ur job ,ur house, ur family, try to live with the zero chances to live a decent life like anyother human for more than 50 years..after that, u 're welcome to discuss the palestine behaviour in one of the smallest countryand the poorest area of the world..

You could've ask Yasser Arafat where is all the money that supposed to go to Palestinian people( and i'm talking on a lot of money)...
The money probably with Suha at paris, or it invested in some stock markets.
This money, could've develop gaza strip.

nermo
07-08-2005, 09:34 AM
You could've ask Yasser Arafat where is all the money that supposed to go to Palestinian people( and i'm talking on a lot of money)...
The money probably with Suha at paris, or it invested in some stock markets.
This money, could've develop gaza strip. posted by nimrodg

Yasser Arafat was no angel, and again it's no place to discuss his good and bad deeds..but if u 're just going to sit calmly and convince ur self that Arafat 's money was the only reason for what's happening in israel, then it's no use talking about the whole issue...

Nimrodg
07-08-2005, 09:44 AM
Yasser Arafat was no angel, and again it's no place to discuss his good and bad deeds..but if u 're just going to sit calmly and convince ur self that Arafat 's money was the only reason for what's happening in israel, then it's no use talking about the whole issue...

No, it's not the only reason, but you talked about people have no job etc.. it's related to that.
And israel is guilty, as the Palestinians.
But you have to agree with me that the palestinians almost doing nothing for stopping terrorisem.
If some israeli tries to harm palestinians he is getting arrested immediately. the fact is that the FATAH, the Party of Mahmoud Abbas taking parts of some terror attacks.

i honestly believe in peace, but it's up to the palestinians. if we succsed to make a peace with your country, we can make with them if they'll start to do something.

nermo
07-08-2005, 11:54 AM
In my opinion, and Im speaking as a cold student of foreign policy, we have definitely walked into a new age of foreign policy. What happened in london confirms a rather ugly side to human nature, but a very important one that will affect both how and for which reasons future wars and invasions are waged. I think it is all very interesting. Let me explain.

Let me state here that I fully believe, as was actually stated on Al-Qaeda related websites, that the terrorist bombing in London was in retaliation for British involvement in Iraq's invasion as well as to make a rather solid point to the world leaders gathered in Scotland. I don't believe this has anything to do with the Olympics, as some ppl are saying -it is practically short of impossible to organise such a well-coordinated hit like this in 24 hours. As the article I posted beforehand indicates, these bombings took several months of preparation and involved at least some 24/25 people - you don't commit yourselves to such a risky plan if it was just as likely that London wouldn't be landing the bid at all. No, Im 100% sure this wasn't about the Olympics - in Al-Qaeda's mind that was just a "bonus".

The Al-Qaeda related websites, which the media and the government are not addressing -notice how Blair is completely avoiding even remotely pinning this on the UK's role in Iraq - clearly and openly state the bombing, like it was for Spain, is the third in a string of retaliatory measures that will include, in their words, other "allies", ie: Denmark and Italy. If this happens, and Germany and France remain unaffected, then you will know this has always been about Iraq and the West's treatment of the Middle East.

This marks a new stage in International Relations. Throughout the 20th century, when military technology escalated, war consisted of 2 stages. The first pre-atom bomb stage consisted of Powerful nations primarily going at it with eachother, ie: WWar's I and II. After the atomic bomb came out on the market, which all the first world countries promptly acquired, inter-1st world country fighting was no longer possible. I mean, no nation in its right mind would ever directly bomb a country that is known to possess nuclear weapons. That has been the open reality of it, despite the so-called trumped out psychological popular "fear" of the Cold War --which both Americans and Russian politicians exploited to cow their peoples capacities to question their govts IMO -- the atomic bombs behind the Cold War had, in fact, ensured the longest period of peace between 1st world nations for the first time in history.

But that did not prevent the powerful from extending their battles to 3rd World Countries in the post-atomic age. There is no doubt in my mind that the US, for example, would not have invaded Korea and Vietnam if these people's govts had had nukes. The same for France in Indochina. Or military excursions and bombings afterwards in Yugoslavia, Somalia, Tibet, Haiti, Malvinas (Falklands), Colombia, Guatemala, Afghanistan etc and most recently, Iraq. Do you see the pattern here?? Only defenseless, atomic weaponless countries have been directly affected in war by the 1st world for the past 50 or something years and why? Because the rich countries could perfectly get away with it and boy did they know it.

The truth is *ALL* the G8 countries have bombed, destroyed, killed, napalmed, pillaged, tortured citizens of defenseless countries for a long time now simply because they knew they could get away with it, that there wouldn't be any real repercussions, any slapping of the hand, anything to make them stop feeling they had an essential right to do whatever they wanted in other countries. Its the law of jungle so to speak. The one who has the power makes the rules.

G8 government leaders knew their own people wouldn't really ultimately care at all about what they were doing in other countries so long as they kept the media from exposing what was really going on and that still largely remained the case until Sept 11. All other events, even Vietnam, was mostly swept under the carpet and didn't persuade G8 leaders that they couldn't still get away with it in other parts of the world. And so it went till the WTC collapsed in NY.

I find it rather fitting that 9-11 happened in the first year of the new millenium - it marked a real beginning as to how things are going to be like for a long time in International Relations. For the first time ever, and for the next several years in what will be the first unprecedented attacks on HOME-SOIL of 1st world countries, US, UK, Spain, and believe me others will follow. The impoverished region of the Middle East is hitting back and retaliating where it hurts, and the 1st World PUBLIC, who actually have good intentions, is standing up and noticing, much to the absolute chagrin of their pro-invasion politicians.

Its a complete disaster to have the voting public see and understand how a bunch of elusive sheepherders in Iraq and Afghanistan can actually pack a punch on home soil, if you look at it from a politicians point of view. Before they "could get away" with what has been an illegal occupation, but at least now, as it was the case for Spain and increasingly presently so in America (and Im interested to see how this will pan out for the UK and Blair), the pro-war leaders are not getting away with it. They are realising that home-soil acts of terrorisms, as 1st world politicians are currently realising, can cost them their jobs - just look at what at did in kicking out the conservative pro-war leaders in Spain and the bad, bad poll numbers for Republicans in the US. And that is what the terrorist's timing for the G8 summit is about. Its about Al-Qaeda saying that if you G8 leaders hit us in the Middle East, we WILL hit back and do everything in our power to knock you out of office. And that if you choose to not fuck with us in Middle East, as future hits in ONLY pro-war countries will undoubtedly show, then you won't be targets, ie: France and Germany.

Thats my theory, at least.

Its really sad. I completely, absolutely, oppose and hate terrorism. But in terms of making an impression on the people's minds it is effective. Raw human nature dictates that you will always be less likely to pick a fight with a guy who can hit back, then one who simply can't. Unfortunately, that is the only language bullies understand - that there can be homesoil consequences for acts govts commit abroad - and that is a lesson G8 leaders are beginning to understand, at least in regards to the Middle East.

Im 100% sure European and American leaders and their people - the smart ones at least - will think twice before starting another adventure in the Middle East as the terrorist attacks continue to pile up against the "invader" countries. Its not like these guys aren't patient and willing. They will retaliate. And not much can really stop them. But so it is. We are not really meant to control everything that happens to us in the real worldand hopefully, this will make policymakers understand, for once and hopefully forever, that ultimately you do reap what you sow.

But thats the path we're travelling out on whether we like it or not. There must be consequences for every decision we make, as a people, as a country and as members of the human race - whether its war, the Environment, discrimination eg: slavery in the past, etc.

The sad thing is it didnt have to be this way. I think the masses could have done a lot more to have rectified the situation. How the Brits can have a system where the Prime Minister can go to a voluntary war against 70% of his population's wishes is a fatal problem to the system that the people have to fight to change. That should not be allowed under any kind of circumstance!

The American framers also only intended Congress to authorize War, not the White House. They knew it was important that the people themselves have the power to ultimately decide against whom they should fight and for what reasons. But that has been casually ignored, and on purpose by the political class, even when its right there in black and white in the US constitution. It really is up to the people to change that.

So people do have a role in preventing their govts from abusing their powers. The question is, will they step up to the plate? posted by undomiele

:hatoff:

MisterQ
07-08-2005, 12:29 PM
I haven't been around MTF much because of my summer job, but I want to stop by and convey my condolences to our British friends. Thinking of you... :hug: :sad:

Fedex
07-08-2005, 12:31 PM
I send my condolences and best wishes to any who have been affected by this horrible tragedy. :hug:

Fedex
07-08-2005, 12:34 PM
To Peta, Cris and all those others who have expressed concern about us here in London - and to those who have sent me PMs - thanks :hug: My office is not so far from where one of the bombs went off - so most of the morning we've had very little mobile phone contact/electricity/Internet connection to contact the outside wrld - but guess I was lucky as I'd only just got to work shortly before so I could easily have walked straight into it. I'm a little shaky but physically unharmed and I hope all the other Brit posters here are OK.:

It's a mess out there and looking at it makes me cry but don't worry - we will cope.............I was bought up in London at the height of the IRA bombing campaign so it's not like we Brits aren't used to it, though this is on a much larger scale. We Brits are pretty tough and stoic and our infamous "stiff upper lips" come to the fore at times like this - we will NOT let the bastards get to us :devil:

Thanks for your concern again anyway guys - :wavey: from London.
Its good to know you're ok Rosie. :)

Fedex
07-08-2005, 12:37 PM
REMEMBER THESE REBUILDING EFFORTS TAKE YEARS. THEY ARE NATIONS NOT WEBSITES!!!!!!! :rolleyes:
Of coure we wouldent have to "rebuild Iraq" if we hadn't unnecessarily bombed the fuck out of them, but that's besides the point.

DanEd
07-08-2005, 12:49 PM
I know the facts very well, just i am saying you israelis are not as saint as you say.

besides
You could've ask Yasser Arafat where is all the money that supposed to go to Palestinian people( and i'm talking on a lot of money)...
The money probably with Suha at paris, or it invested in some stock markets.
This money, could've develop gaza strip.

Nimrodg
07-08-2005, 02:50 PM
I know the facts very well, just i am saying you israelis are not as saint as you say.

besides

We are not saint at all. Israel sometimes do things wrong. you can't say that you know the facts cause the world media showing almost only their side.
you won't see such pictures in israel -
http://www.israel-wat.com/y9.jpg
http://www.israel-wat.com/child1.jpg
http://www.israel-wat.com/child5.jpg
http://www.israel-wat.com/kid.jpg

You've got to realize that what's happend now in israel . there going to move settlements from gaza, and it's not easy step. a lot of people are against it and there could be a "war" between people in israel.
Israel doing they're step and they going to withdraw from gaza. it's all up to abbas now, if he can stop the terror or missiles will still be launched from gaza to near israeli cities.

JuchuPati
07-08-2005, 04:43 PM
We are not saint at all. Israel sometimes do things wrong. you can't say that you know the facts cause the world media showing almost only their side.

sometimes??
In my opinion, a country like israel called 'democratic' can't use the force for fighting against the palestinians terrorist groups.

NATAS81
07-08-2005, 04:46 PM
We are not saint at all. Israel sometimes do things wrong. you can't say that you know the facts cause the world media showing almost only their side.
you won't see such pictures in israel -
http://www.israel-wat.com/y9.jpg
http://www.israel-wat.com/child1.jpg
http://www.israel-wat.com/child5.jpg
http://www.israel-wat.com/kid.jpg

.From playing with legos to homemade bombs. Interesting contrast.

undomiele
07-08-2005, 05:16 PM
You've got to realize that what's happend now in israel . there going to move settlements from gaza, and it's not easy step. a lot of people are against it and there could be a "war" between people in israel.
Israel doing they're step and they going to withdraw from gaza. it's all up to abbas now, if he can stop the terror or missiles will still be launched from gaza to near israeli cities.

What about the West Bank? Israel is supposed to be giving up the West Bank too.

Nimrodg
07-08-2005, 05:33 PM
What about the West Bank?
They moving some settelments from there too. if i'm not mistaken Jerusalem is a part from the west bank, and jerusalem stays at israel.

sometimes??
In my opinion, a country like israel called 'democratic' can't use the force for fighting against the palestinians terrorist groups.
So what we'll do? we can just sit and wait for the terror to stop. But Israel got the rights to defend herself like every country in the world, and israel will do everything to save life of innocent people. it's not like the Basque terror that you know in spain, i'm talking about suicide bombers in busses, in the road, in restaurant, and even in hospitals. those terror groups don't care if you are teen or adult, if you are jew they want to kill you.

joeb_uk
07-08-2005, 05:52 PM
Now it seems my town is under attack :shrug:

There are rumours of a similar incident in Brighton. My brothers road is closed off, he is confined to his house with a Navy bomb disposal unit outside his front window!


http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tracy.speakman/photos/bdu.jpg

who knows whats happened :shrug:

Iheartandy&roger
07-08-2005, 05:56 PM
What's up any news on who did this bastard thing and what's the death toll right now???

Kudz
07-08-2005, 05:59 PM
What's up any news on who did this bastard thing and what's the death toll right now???
At the moment 49 deaths have been confirmed, however as there are still bodies in the wreck of one of the trains, this number will increase.

NATAS81
07-08-2005, 06:01 PM
There is a supposed terrorist ring in London and more attacks are expected.

Blair is too soft on crime.

Beefing up the police on subways isn't going to solve anything.

Better intel is needed.

JuchuPati
07-08-2005, 06:46 PM
So what we'll do? we can just sit and wait for the terror to stop. But Israel got the rights to defend herself like every country in the world, and israel will do everything to save life of innocent people

no. sitting and waitting is not the solution.
yes, I know u have the 'rights' to defend against those terrorists. but...I think these rights Israel uses are wrong. the terror can't be defeated with the terror. simply.

it's the israel police, the courts, judges and later the punishments that must act against the palestinian terrorism. this is the way democracies work.



it's not like the Basque terror that you know in spain, i'm talking about suicide bombers in busses, in the road, in restaurant, and even in hospitals. those terror groups don't care if you are teen or adult, if you are jew they want to kill you.

I know ETA is not like the palestinian suicides and so on, however, more than 1,000 people has been killed by ETA in the last years. and all of them were innocent people as well.

i can't imagine the spanish army forces throwing bombs against basque places, or some 'suspect ETA member' and killing in its try basque innocents.

chrissiej
07-08-2005, 06:54 PM
There is a supposed terrorist ring in London and more attacks are expected.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

so we're just expected to roll over and let the terrorists get their way? i don't think so...

everyone knew it was only a matter of time before London was attacked, therefore we can expect it again...it happened with the IRA, these guys could be the same :o


Blair is too soft on crime.

Beefing up the police on subways isn't going to solve anything.

Better intel is needed.

Blair tried to be harsh on suspected terrorists but human rights activists stopped that...:o

The current increased police presence will have a lot to do with peace of mind.

*Ljubica*
07-08-2005, 07:24 PM
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

so we're just expected to roll over and let the terrorists get their way? i don't think so...

everyone knew it was only a matter of time before London was attacked, therefore we can expect it again...it happened with the IRA, these guys could be the same :o



Blair tried to be harsh on suspected terrorists but human rights activists stopped that...:o

The current increased police presence will have a lot to do with peace of mind.

Great post Chrissie :worship: I'm sure as hell not "rolling over" and letting them get their way - and I bet you're not either :)

chrissiej
07-08-2005, 09:02 PM
Great post Chrissie :worship: I'm sure as hell not "rolling over" and letting them get their way - and I bet you're not either :)

:yeah:

Fedex
07-09-2005, 09:25 AM
There is a supposed terrorist ring in London and more attacks are expected.

Blair is too soft on crime.

Beefing up the police on subways isn't going to solve anything.

Better intel is needed.
I've always thought the British were too soft on crime in general. (Please correct me if I am wrong, I am only speculating )

Kudz
07-09-2005, 09:27 AM
I've always thought the British were too soft on crime in general. (Please correct me if I am wrong, I am only speculating )
In what way?

Rogiman
07-09-2005, 10:54 AM
no. sitting and waitting is not the solution.
yes, I know u have the 'rights' to defend against those terrorists. but...I think these rights Israel uses are wrong. the terror can't be defeated with the terror. simply.

it's the israel police, the courts, judges and later the punishments that must act against the palestinian terrorism. this is the way democracies work.

.
Those terrorists are not Israeli citizens, so I can't see how the Israeli police, courts etc. should help.
Besides, if you think we've got the time to give everyone of those guys the right to defend himself in court you're probably another one of those Europeans who think life in the middle east is the honeymoon you've got there in Europe.



I know ETA is not like the palestinian suicides and so on, however, more than 1,000 people has been killed by ETA in the last years. and all of them were innocent people as well.

i can't imagine the spanish army forces throwing bombs against basque places, or some 'suspect ETA member' and killing in its try basque innocents.You must be kidding - comparing the ETA with a bunch of animals of no moral or respect to people's lives.

Trust me, if the ETA were anything similar to the muslim terror organizations I can clearly see the spanish army (if it even has anything to fight with other than those tidy uniforms that are never in use in Europe) throwing bombs all over the Pyrenees.

You Europeans are quick to judge anyone, whenever the situation has nothing to do with you.
You now begin to realise what muslim terror is, so talk to me soon with your new observations.

chrissiej
07-09-2005, 11:17 AM
I've always thought the British were too soft on crime in general. (Please correct me if I am wrong, I am only speculating )

British judicial system is fecked. My brother's best mate got put in prison for 12 months, because he drink - drove 500 metres and almost hit someone. It was his first offence and the entire case rested on the statement of his so called best friend who claimed he was sober at the time when he was in fact drunk, his cell mate in prison got 6 months and he killed someone.

:o

*Ljubica*
07-09-2005, 11:34 AM
I've always thought the British were too soft on crime in general. (Please correct me if I am wrong, I am only speculating )

I agree Fedex - we are too soft on crime here in my opinion - there is far too much "caring for the criminal" here and not enough "caring for the victim" :devil: There are far too many people in the Inner Cities afraid to go out in the evenings (especially the older generation), because some areas are "no go" areas because of gangs or drugs. Many of the perpetrators are only kids - but when/if they get caught for vandalism/mugging/criminal damage or whatever - they just get community service and a pat on the head to run along and not do it again :devil:

JuchuPati
07-09-2005, 03:58 PM
Those terrorists are not Israeli citizens, so I can't see how the Israeli police, courts etc. should help.
Besides, if you think we've got the time to give everyone of those guys the right to defend himself in court you're probably another one of those Europeans who think life in the middle east is the honeymoon you've got there in Europe.

I know they aren't israeli citizens. but if u knew something about laws,specially international laws, u would know that the police of a country can arrest other nationalities people and judge them as well. here, even the french police collaborate with spanish one to arrest ETA terrorists.


and no, I'm not an european who thinks that your life is a honeymoon. I'm pretty aware of the Israeli-Palestine situation, and honestly I think that the way your country is doing the things are not the solution. well, it's a fact that too many innocent people is killed in israel by those fucking terrorists, but also innocent palestinians die too cos the Israeli force actions. and I don't see this problem can be solved soon.


nowdays, ETA organization is not as strong as last years, and we haven't had to throw any bomb. and that is cos a right police politic.

You must be kidding - comparing the ETA with a bunch of animals of no moral or respect to people's lives.

Trust me, if the ETA were anything similar to the muslim terror organizations I can clearly see the spanish army (if it even has anything to fight with other than those tidy uniforms that are never in use in Europe) throwing bombs all over the Pyrenees
You Europeans are quick to judge anyone, whenever the situation has nothing to do with you.
You now begin to realise what muslim terror is, so talk to me soon with your new observations.

pardon???
ETA doesn't respect peoples lives either. they aren't as crazy as those palestinians,I know, but they kill all those persons who don't agree with its ideas. of course, we haven't that kind or terror u unfortunately have there, but spaniards know abit what we are talking.

and I'm not judging anyone, I'm simply telling my opinion.

but well, u're right, this stuff is nothing to do with me. so I will let palestinians and israelis go on killing eachother.

musefanatic
07-09-2005, 04:04 PM
I think this is all terrible, when I heard I couldn't believe it. We thought we were safe but this shows no one is safe.

undomiele
07-09-2005, 07:53 PM
Besides, if you think we've got the time to give everyone of those guys the right to defend himself in court you're probably another one of those Europeans who think life in the middle east is the honeymoon you've got there in Europe.
....

You Europeans are quick to judge anyone, whenever the situation has nothing to do with you.
You now begin to realise what muslim terror is, so talk to me soon with your new observations.

If Europeans are just soooo naive about what "muslim terror" is then why the hell did YOU help introduce (and pursue) the Israeli topic in a thread specifically designed for what went on in London? Why bother talking it out with people who can have such a poor understanding of what Israelis are going through eh? :rolleyes:

Furthermore, Al-Qaeda is a completely different terrorist organisation than the ones Israel face. Just because the Palestinian terrorists and Al-Qaeda are muslim doesn't mean anything. The IRA and ETA are both catholic militant organisations and they both maintained very different ambitions. No one calls them the "catholic" terrorists or something. The PLO's ambitions are very, very different from Hamas and grouping them all together along with ultra-extreme Al-Qaeda is very irresponsible and ignorant IMO.

I can assure you the vast, vast majority of arab muslims do not approve of Al-qaeda and their tactics. But that is something a lot of ignorant ppl eager to label the entire muslim world as one horrible philosophy do not want to hear.

nermo
07-09-2005, 08:39 PM
Al-Qaeda is a completely different terrorist organisation than the ones Israel face. The IRA and ETA are both catholic militant organisations and they both maintained very different ambitions. No one calls them the "catholic" terrorists or something. The PLO's ambitions are very, very different from Hamas and grouping them all together along with ultra-extreme Al-Qaeda is very irresponsible and ignorant IMO.
originally posted by undomiele

True, Al qaeda is basically and generally far from , those organisations in palestine..and i believe its history is known to almost everyone ,starting from its beginning which was basically supported by The US against Russian forces in Afghanistan..and till the very final chapters that we all are suffering from and perhaps the arabs and muslims are the ones with worst injuries from this organisation.
on the otherside , Palestinians have been and are still suffering from israeli occupation for more than 50 years by now, and u can't by any means compare organised persons from alQAEDa with normally disperate ppl those making home made bombs in palestine who have lost their chances in giving their children decent chances in lifefor more than 50 years , and what israeli s suffer from is a normal attitude for what palestinians are daily suffering from ..
i am not saying it's the best thing to do , iam not saying it 'll be the solution..but wouldn't u honestly ask urself..
why would a father or a child or even 19 year old girl prefer to die in a miserable manner..why does life become so cheap for them?it's obviously cuz they have suffered a lot and no one listens or wants to listen..??

Rogiman
07-09-2005, 08:46 PM
I can assure you the vast, vast majority of arab muslims do not approve of Al-qaeda and their tactics. But that is something a lot of ignorant ppl eager to label the entire muslim world as one horrible philosophy do not want to hear.

So I take it you've been to the Palestinian territories and visited their houses and spoken to them, since you talk with so much confidence about the topic - or are you just another college student sitting in an air-conditioned class somewhere far away and telling me about those terror organizations that have been part of my life for the last 26 years and whom I met first hand when I fought them, but of course, since you know everything better than everyone I wouldn't expect anything less from you.

The distinction between the different branches of terror in the arabic world nowadays is not as clear as your professors in Argentina have told you, and even so called "secular" former organizations like the PLO (nowadays known more as the "Palestinian Authority") are financially supported by Islamic countries such as Iran and Syria, and cooperate with radical Islamic movements such as Hamas.

3 Years ago I was posed (during reserve-military service) in refugee-camp Jenin in the west bank, and my first and strongest impression was how many radical islamic characteristics (terroristic propaganda, pictures of Islamic icons etc.) was in every one of the houses.
We treated the people with as much dignity as was possible, made sure noone takes anything or touches anyone and tried to be as kind as war allows one to be, and of course a short while later they again came out to the media faking facts and figures, telling the whole world how deprived they are and what a terrible massacre we (IDF) just did in their camp - there was a video record of them faking funerals of seemingly dead victims to the international TV networks, when all of a sudden what seemed to be a dead body on a stretcher gets up the moment they think the reporters have left...

Then again, people like you will always subscribe to the common perception of how poor and deprived they are (they are, to a certain extent), and how we Israelis prevent them from becoming as prosperous and enlightened as the rest of the arabic countries, right...?
Because every year dozens of medical and scientific breakthroughs are achieved in the arabic world, let alone the vast accomplishments in art and literature, and as they've proven in recent years they have alot more to contribute to the world than terror :tape:

Rogiman
07-09-2005, 08:56 PM
on the otherside , Palestinians have been and are still suffering from israeli occupation for more than 50 years by now, and u can't by any means compare organised persons from alQAEDa with normally disperate ppl those making home made bombs in palestine who have lost their chances in giving their children decent chances in lifefor more than 50 years , and what israeli s suffer from is a normal attitude for what palestinians are daily suffering from ..
They had every chance of giving their children a brighter future and 5 years ago when we were on the verge of applying the 93 Oslo agreements they decided for some ambiguous reason to recommence the terror against Israli soldiers and citizens, probably terror organizations like the Hamas realised they would be of no use in peace times and freaked out.
They then used the weapons we provided them with (to protect themselves) against us, and the rest is history.

I will not post anything further about the issue out of respect to my british fellows, who have by now known the results of enabling radical muslims get together.

nermo
07-09-2005, 08:58 PM
and why would any one willingly destroy his Camp, or house or his farm, or why would they dress in israelis military clothes and push women out to the ground away from their own houses and then destroy their own houses with beldouzers????
plz , Get real...

and for the last time,i 'd say its not the place to discuss it at least for the sake and respect of terror victims everywhere...

Rogiman
07-09-2005, 09:06 PM
and why would any one willingly destroy his Camp, or house or his farm, or why would they dress in israelis military clothes and push women out to the ground away from their own houses and then destroy their own houses with beldouzers????

plz , Get real...
Because they love propaganda, that's why, they want to show the world how poor they are and how cruel we are on every opportunity, that's why whenever any of them knows he'll be seeked by the military forces for terrorism he's in charge of he insists of holding his children close to him so that if he gets hurt his children will be hurt too and the media will have something to get it's teeth into.

And since I was there physically and you're just fed off media bullshit you're the one who should get real.

nermo
07-09-2005, 09:16 PM
Because they love propaganda, that's why, they want to show the world how poor they are and how cruel we are on every opportunity, that's why whenever any of them knows he'll be seeked by the military forces for terrorism he's in charge of he insists of holding his children close to him so that if he gets hurt his children will be hurt too and the media will have something to get it's teeth into.
And since I was there physically posted by Rogiman

that's why i am telling you to get real ..

you're just fed off media bullshit you're the one who should get real..posted by Rogiman

me ??fed off media??? don't even try to talk about it...

Nimrodg
07-09-2005, 10:54 PM
STOP BULLSHITING about how you understand the palestinians that suffered so much.
Israel trying to help the palestinians in medicine - but take a look at how they using the situation for terror :
http://www.bambili.com/asp_new/glz6.asp

http://rotter.net/israel/68.jpg
Look into her eyes. she was one of many kids who were murdered only because they are jews. and terror organizations don't care if they are kids, they will kill them anyway.

Fedex
07-10-2005, 04:46 AM
I agree Fedex - we are too soft on crime here in my opinion - there is far too much "caring for the criminal" here and not enough "caring for the victim" :devil: There are far too many people in the Inner Cities afraid to go out in the evenings (especially the older generation), because some areas are "no go" areas because of gangs or drugs. Many of the perpetrators are only kids - but when/if they get caught for vandalism/mugging/criminal damage or whatever - they just get community service and a pat on the head to run along and not do it again :devil:
Yes. You know, me personally, the English 'bobbys' dont really scare or intimidate me, but the cops in downtown Detroit, that's a different story. ;) :lol:

*Ljubica*
07-10-2005, 11:31 AM
Yes. You know, me personally, the English 'bobbys' dont really scare or intimidate me, but the cops in downtown Detroit, that's a different story. ;) :lol:

Well I've never been to Detroit Fedex - but I can't deny that everytime I see a Policeman carrying a gun (in almost every other country in the world) I feel really uncomfortable because we're just not used to seeing anyone (even Police) walking around carrying guns in the streets!!! Sadly - maybe we will soon have to get used to it.

PS: Apologies to Nimrodg - I just sent you a GoodRep but I pressed the wrong button before I had finished typing so I think you only have half a message that doesn't make much sense. Big :hug: to you and Rogiman in Israel anyway.

Nimrodg
07-10-2005, 11:59 AM
Well I've never been to Detroit Fedex - but I can't deny that everytime I see a Policeman carrying a gun (in almost every other country in the world) I feel really uncomfortable because we're just not used to seeing anyone (even Police) walking around carrying guns in the streets!!! Sadly - maybe we will soon have to get used to it.

PS: Apologies to Nimrodg - I just sent you a GoodRep but I pressed the wrong button before I had finished typing so I think you only have half a message that doesn't make much sense. Big :hug: to you and Rogiman in Israel anyway.

Rosie :hug: take care out there in england :)

Angle Queen
07-14-2005, 04:11 PM
Va. to show support for Britain

Richmond Times-Dispatch Jul 14, 2005

Today at 11:45 a.m., Governor Warner and First Lady Collis invite Richmond business leaders, employees, and citizens to join them at the Capitol Square Bell Tower to show the Commonwealth’s support for Britain on the week anniversary of the London terrorist bombings.

The global outpouring of support Virginia and the entire United States received after the 9/11 attacks will never be forgotten. As one of the three states directly impacted on 9/11, it is meaningful for Virginians to show support for Britain. British Prime Minister Tony Blair has called for a moment of silence on Thursday in Britain at noon their time.

Governor Warner will make brief comments, followed by the tolling of the bells at noon in recognition of those who lost their lives in the bombings. State agencies have been encouraged to observe two minutes of silence at noon and businesses wishing to join in that sentiment are welcome.

Citizens and business leaders in and around Richmond are encouraged to take part in this show of support for Britain. Please pass this message along to employees, family members, and others who may be interested in attending. The event is open to the public and scheduled rain or shine.

We look forward to seeing you on Thursday at 11:45 a.m. at the Bell Tower.www.timesdispatch.com

We observed it in our offices and it was eerily quiet. Our hearts go out to England.

undomiele
07-14-2005, 06:10 PM
So I take it you've been to the Palestinian territories and visited their houses and spoken to them, since you talk with so much confidence about the topic - or are you just another college student sitting in an air-conditioned class somewhere far away and telling me about those terror organizations that have been part of my life for the last 26 years and whom I met first hand when I fought them, but of course, since you know everything better than everyone I wouldn't expect anything less from you.

Im not a college student. Im an AP reporter with a degree in IR who happens to have a lot of Palestinian and Israeli friends, who, BTW, are a lot more tolerant and knowledgeable than you. And like I said before, if you think YOU know so much more about whats going on as opposed to other non-Israelis or Arabs then stop making it an issue here for our supposed "benefit", idiot.

The distinction between the different branches of terror in the arabic world nowadays is not as clear as your professors in Argentina have told you, and even so called "secular" former organizations like the PLO (nowadays known more as the "Palestinian Authority") are financially supported by Islamic countries such as Iran and Syria, and cooperate with radical Islamic movements such as Hamas.

Ho hum. I was only saying that you can't exactly place all arab terrorist organisations in one boat, with Al-Qaeda being rather different from Hamas, and the PLO not actually being a terrorist organisation but one that has to collaborate and deal with Hamas in order to fulfill its terms of the road map. There is a difference. You can't just pit all Muslim Arabs together like that and call yourself a reasonable person. Its an entire region with different nationalities, people, interests, etc. And they have moderate and extreme elements as well, just like any population. Or in Israel's case, the settlers fighting to crawl back into the Gaza Strip. Palestinian extremists blow themselves up, but thats where the similarity with Al-Qaeda ends. Al-Qaeda wants to destroy the Western world. Its dishonest and irresponsible to peg the term "Muslim/Arab" with "terrorism" in the same way its irresponsible to peg "Catholic " to "terrorism" in regards to the IRA or ETA, or "White" to "terrorism" in regards to well, just about everywhere. You mistakenly slander an entire sector of humanity when you do that without really addressing the issue at hand.

3 Years ago I was posed (during reserve-military service) in refugee-camp Jenin in the west bank, and my first and strongest impression was how many radical islamic characteristics (terroristic propaganda, pictures of Islamic icons etc.) was in every one of the houses.
We treated the people with as much dignity as was possible, made sure noone takes anything or touches anyone and tried to be as kind as war allows one to be, and of course a short while later they again came out to the media faking facts and figures, telling the whole world how deprived they are and what a terrible massacre we (IDF) just did in their camp - there was a video record of them faking funerals of seemingly dead victims to the international TV networks, when all of a sudden what seemed to be a dead body on a stretcher gets up the moment they think the reporters have left...

Sweetie as a member of the press i know exactly what you are talking about. This kind of thing -the constant doctoring of information- goes on all the time from both sides of every issue from here to Siberia and back. So what else is new? The Israelis do it too (but from more of a top-to-down approach) -everyone does it. However, its incredibly naive of you to assert blamelessness in Israeli dealings with the Palestinians considering your past history. Undeniable acts of illegal opression have occurred that have warranted injunctions from relatively objective experts and international bodies across the board, eg: Red Cross, UNDP, and dozens of legitimate human rights orgs.

Not to say the Palestinians are blameless either. Im not saying that. But Israelis are equally or even more to blame in that you possess the upperhand militarily and the Palestinians don't. There's a responsability there in possessing the greater power of the conflict and that involves recognising past transgressions for what they really are.

Then again, people like you will always subscribe to the common perception of how poor and deprived they are (they are, to a certain extent), and how we Israelis prevent them from becoming as prosperous and enlightened as the rest of the arabic countries, right...?
Because every year dozens of medical and scientific breakthroughs are achieved in the arabic world, let alone the vast accomplishments in art and literature, and as they've proven in recent years they have alot more to contribute to the world than terror :tape:

Ah the ugly side of human nature in you finally comes out. :wavey: Its all about power for you, isn't it? Ego, power and so-called accomplishments versus others, stubborn Pride and hate? Never about compassion, tolerance, self-examination, humility, forgiveness? Funny about how its always about what Arabs do to you but never about what your people do to others. :rolleyes: Im 100% sure no one on this board is really listening to you. You are insufferably biased.

And since you are so eager to say that you're the only one entitled here to have an opinion on the subject, allow me to point out stg that you living in Israel wouldn't know. Something that has been transparently obvious to most people in the rest of the world for decades. Newsflash Rogiman, the way Israel has been handling things for the past several decades -demolishing homes, bombing territories at will, acquiring secret nuclear weapons, breaking sovereignty and international law more times than Iraq, and the sheer self-centred argument about Israeli interests justifying everything above all - just hasn't really worked.

Here I would turn around and say the exact same thing to the Palestinians -who are, after all, a semitic brother race to Israelis. Terrorism -suicide bombings, Arab financial support, incalcitrance, manipulation, etc- hasn't really worked either for palestinians either.

And this is the way it has been since frickin'1948. Both sides living in fear with knives and guns under their pillows while hundreds, thousands die savagely.

So a new way of doing things -the Road Map- has to happen, when its obvious you guys can go on forever like this. Arafat is dead, Israel needs to do what it needs to do, and it is doing it, and I am grateful for that. :) But at the same time, the moderate, rational Arabs in the Arab world have done their part to contribute their part to the peace process in recognising the Israeli right to exist, something Im sure you'd scoff at considering what you think of Arabs -the dregs of humanity IYO.

I personally believe both Israelis and Palestinians are actually a lot more similar deep, deep down than they'd like to think and what we're seeing here is something of an ugly brother-brother relationship that degrades and debases both parties. Its kinda like putting two arrogant people with similar traits in a room together who are bound to hate eachother.

Both my Arab friends and Jewish friends have often secretly commented on this similarity to me -how Israeli jews and Palestinians strike them as somewhat self-centered, conceited ppl. I know many, many Arabs who don't like Palestinians for that reason but support them because they are after all Muslim. I don't think thats right, but thats when the whole Religion-race thing comes in which is really the root of the problem IMO.

Its also no good sidelining people by stating you live in Israel. There are plenty of Israelis who, by living there, have arrived at different conclusions than you have. I just happen to follow their opinions more than yours and count quite a few as friends.

mer
07-15-2005, 01:49 PM
Im 100% sure no one on this board is really listening to you. You are insufferably biased.

IMO you are insufferably biased as well. Just unlike Rogiman you cover up your bias with false objectivity.