Joran van der Sloot is an evil psychopath and should be locked away for life [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Joran van der Sloot is an evil psychopath and should be locked away for life

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Purple Rainbow
07-06-2005, 07:09 PM
To those of you who have lived in a cave the last month, an 18 year old American girl disappeared on Aruba, during a graduation holiday with her hgh school. The case has been running for a while now and getting an imho disproportional ammount of media attention.

No thread yet here about this topic, which is a big deal in my father's home country of Aruba.

I'm just curious if anybody has any interest in the story, if it gets any attention in the country where you live and if you have any opinions on the case.

Thanks!

If you're unfamiliar with the story, just google for "Natalee Holloway" and you'l find about 26,000 links..

Iheartandy&roger
07-07-2005, 01:03 AM
I am totally in tune with this story and I hope they find her wtf is up with this dude that is the main suspect who the hell does he think he is.... he knows something! If i was there i'd beat the answers out of the bastard.

tennischick
07-07-2005, 01:37 AM
this case was actually discussed within the MJ thread. i have been following it closely bec it will impact the entire Caribbean in a negative way. mistakes were made by many, not just the Aruban authorities IMO. for one, the size of the travel group was too large and there was insufficient monitoring of these students. second, every single member of that group should have been detained and interviewed before they were allowed to leave the island. third, the issue of race raised its ugly head when the authorities tried to pin it in 2 innocent security guards who happened to be Black. i can go on. i feel sorry for the local people who make a living based on tourism -- their future is now insecure. and of course my sympathies for the family of this missing girl. closure seems no where in sight.

SuperFurryAnimal
07-07-2005, 08:28 AM
I'm not sure whether this guy who's caught by the cops really has anything to do with it. I mean, sure he's the last one who has seen here alive. But does that automatically mean he has something to do with her dissapearance? Maybe she killed herself? Who knows? Nothing is proven. I hope they find her (body) soon.

Neely
07-07-2005, 08:59 AM
I have heard already about it, but somehow it never intrigued me as much that I could care for it more than only hearing on a sidenote about it.

Purple Rainbow
07-07-2005, 11:48 AM
I am totally in tune with this story and I hope they find her wtf is up with this dude that is the main suspect who the hell does he think he is.... he knows something! If i was there i'd beat the answers out of the bastard.

This dude, Joran van der Sloot, is a friend of my cousin. They are in the same class. My cousin likes the guy. Says she can't believe he actually killed Natalee. Of course that what everybody most of the time says about convicted criminals.

Purple Rainbow
07-07-2005, 11:54 AM
this case was actually discussed within the MJ thread. i have been following it closely bec it will impact the entire Caribbean in a negative way. mistakes were made by many, not just the Aruban authorities IMO. for one, the size of the travel group was too large and there was insufficient monitoring of these students. second, every single member of that group should have been detained and interviewed before they were allowed to leave the island. third, the issue of race raised its ugly head when the authorities tried to pin it in 2 innocent security guards who happened to be Black. i can go on. i feel sorry for the local people who make a living based on tourism -- their future is now insecure. and of course my sympathies for the family of this missing girl. closure seems no where in sight.

Don't know the MJ thread? :confused:

Anyway, you make some good points here. Indeed a lot of mistakes were made here, but keep in mind that Aruba is such a peaceful place that the authorities don't have much of a frame of reference when it comes to a missing person.

I've been looking at several websites dealing with the subject. It seems to me that most attention to this case is being given by conservative media in the US. Foxnews has discussion on their website and some of those shockjock neocon morons pay a lot of attention to it too. Their tone is that Aruba a dangerous drugs paradise, ruled by an incompetent corrupt government, Arubans are stupid people only interested in our dollars and not in our lives and we should all boycott Aruba. This sort of talk makes me very, very, very angry. And I'm propbably the most emotionally stable person you'll ever meet. :)

Lucie
07-07-2005, 12:18 PM
i hadn't heard anything about it here in the UK until sunday when the guardian newspaper did an excellent article. It also made the point that this story would not have got so much press coverage if "...she had been black. Or asian. Or poor. Or a boy."

Purple Rainbow
07-07-2005, 12:21 PM
i hadn't heard anything about it here in the UK until sunday when the guardian newspaper did an excellent article. It also made the point that this story would not have got so much press coverage if "...she had been black. Or asian. Or poor. Or a boy."

Good point. Don't forget to point out that she is blonde and from a wealthy family. The amount of media attention to this case is disproportional anyway.

SuperFurryAnimal
07-07-2005, 12:26 PM
Good point. Don't forget to point out that she is blonde and from a wealthy family. The amount of media attention to this case is disproportional anyway.

that's right. lots of people disappear each day. but just because this girl is blond, young, wealthy and successful (she just graduated) and from the US the case gets loads of attention. what also strikes me is the parents of the girl that keep on saying that their little girl would never drink alcohol or take drugs. what do they know?

Lucie
07-07-2005, 12:35 PM
that's right. lots of people disappear each day. but just because this girl is blond, young, wealthy and successful (she just graduated) and from the US the case gets loads of attention. what also strikes me is the parents of the girl that keep on saying that their little girl would never drink alcohol or take drugs. what do they know?

yeah, the article i read said that she "drunkenly climbed into a car..." Parents never want to believe that their children are getting drunk or taking drugs etc, although it is obviously not this girl's fault that she was murdered, she put herself into a very dangerous position

SuperFurryAnimal
07-07-2005, 01:00 PM
yeah, the article i read said that she "drunkenly climbed into a car..." Parents never want to believe that their children are getting drunk or taking drugs etc, although it is obviously not this girl's fault that she was murdered, she put herself into a very dangerous position

as I said, it's not proven she is murdered. maybe she isn't even dead, maybe she killed herself. who knows...

tennischick
07-07-2005, 03:59 PM
MJ = Michael Jackson

you don't need to defend Aruba to me. i love the caribbean. to be honest i've only been to Aruba once -- i've spent more time in Curacao. i've also been to Suriname once for a tennis tourny. i feel badly for all of these islands bec they will get tainted by the same brush. and it is exactly bec Aruba has such a relatively peaceful history that this incident is such huge news here in the US. it's a bigger deal in the South bec that is where the girl and her family are from. finally, i wasn't blaming only the Aruban authorities -- i think that everyone erred, including the group that left one of their members behind. they evidently were not too worried which in itself is telling.

Don't know the MJ thread? :confused:

Anyway, you make some good points here. Indeed a lot of mistakes were made here, but keep in mind that Aruba is such a peaceful place that the authorities don't have much of a frame of reference when it comes to a missing person.

I've been looking at several websites dealing with the subject. It seems to me that most attention to this case is being given by conservative media in the US. Foxnews has discussion on their website and some of those shockjock neocon morons pay a lot of attention to it too. Their tone is that Aruba a dangerous drugs paradise, ruled by an incompetent corrupt government, Arubans are stupid people only interested in our dollars and not in our lives and we should all boycott Aruba. This sort of talk makes me very, very, very angry. And I'm propbably the most emotionally stable person you'll ever meet. :)

Neely
07-07-2005, 04:22 PM
what also strikes me is the parents of the girl that keep on saying that their little girl would never drink alcohol or take drugs. what do they know?
Sure they keep on saying that, maybe it's their honest opinion about her and they don't know what their daughter is really doing behind their backs, maybe they just want to present her in a good light. But, on the other hand, what do you/we know? judging the whole situation only from other sources, knowing nobody/nothing at all? :shrug:

Good point. Don't forget to point out that she is blonde and from a wealthy family. The amount of media attention to this case is disproportional anyway.

I agree, if it's really so bad it seems to be way exaggerated and probably if it would be somebody else (although I would not try to see a link between her hairh color), it wouldn't be that big in the news. I wonder how many other people disappear each day somewhere abroad because of any unknown reason?

Auscon
07-07-2005, 04:23 PM
I havent heard anything about it here in Aus

Wednesday Addams
07-07-2005, 05:56 PM
Nothing abt this here in Romania :o I'm off to google it, but just a few questions before I go..... What abt a motive? Why would anyone kill her? I know that she was rich, but so what? Doesn't mean you automatically get money if u kill her. And how much money could she have been carrying on her, anyway? I'm more inclined to believe she had some sort of accident (if she had been drinking or doing drugs) and is lying somewhere in a ditch.... (hope not, tho :sad: )

the cat
07-07-2005, 10:21 PM
It's such a sad story. :( I don't know how potentially vulnerable teenage girls like Natalee Holloway can be allowed to do what they want when they are visiting another country celebrating high school graduation. Especially when they very likely have partying and meeting guys they don't know on their minds. That's when they are most vulnerable. A woman friend of mine here in New York who has been to Aruba a couple of times says that she thinks the guys she was with killed her and then threw her body to the sharks into the water because that way she would never be found and they could never be prosecuted. What an awful way for a young life to end. Just as it was beginning. :sad:

Excellent posts TC. Very thoughtful.

tennischick
07-07-2005, 11:18 PM
It's such a sad story. :( I don't know how potentially vulnerable teenage girls like Natalee Holloway can be allowed to do what they want when they are visiting another country celebrating high school graduation. Especially when they very likely have partying and meeting guys they don't know on their minds. That's when they are most vulnerable. A woman friend of mine here in New York who has been to Aruba a couple of times says that she thinks the guys she was with killed her and then threw her body to the sharks into the water because that way she would never be found and they could never be prosecuted. What an awful way for a young life to end. Just as it was beginning. :sad:

Excellent posts TC. Very thoughtful.
thanks sweetie :kiss:

there are lots of sharks in the waters around Aruba. in the time that the authorities were busy torturing two Black men, her body could have been fed to the sharks piece by piece in the dead of night. that's my macabre theory.

watch her show up in 2 months happily preggers for a local boy and wondering what all the fuss was about ;)

my teenage niece is about to go to Guadaloupe on an exchange program. altho' she's accustomed to being in the caribbean as we all are, here's the advice that i emailed her in big bold letters: "do NOT do something in a foreign country that you would not do at home." it's that simple.

DanEd
07-07-2005, 11:26 PM
i found this article:

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2005/7/3/491/18474

DanEd
07-07-2005, 11:33 PM
i found a site of hers.

http://www.nataleeholloway.com/

Lee
07-07-2005, 11:57 PM
As a mother, I understand how devastated her parents are and really am sorry this happened.

But I am also sick of the way US and media treating the Aruba government. If this happens in US, there's no way any people would be kept in jail for such a long time with a missing person case. Even with her body found (which I highly doubt) and it's a murder case, unless there are more evidents that directly link them to the killing, those people would never spend more than 48 hours in jail (the max. time the authorities can detain someone without prosecuting).

Again, this is the double standards that the US treat her own people than foreigners.

Gonzo Hates Me!
07-08-2005, 12:05 AM
This case is ridiculous. No revelations ever pop up--it's not going anywhere, yet there is always all these people on satellite, giving interviews, making commentary, on what??? Nobody even knows anything, I mean, this case is just a mess! Quagmire. And just goes to show how easily people can become yesterday's news, literally, now with the London explosions. CNN, MSNBC, FOX... Natalee who??? Did the media ever *really care*?

Lee
07-08-2005, 12:05 AM
And when will the teenagers in US learned? This is not the first time that when students graduated from high school, take a tour to nearby foreign countries and get into trouble! How can a girl to be so bright, smart and well behaved (from the picture created by the media) will be so stupid to be separated from her friends and go with 3 total strangers?

RodLo
07-08-2005, 12:47 AM
And when will the teenagers in US learned? This is not the first time that when students graduated from high school, take a tour to nearby foreign countries and get into trouble! How can a girl to be so bright, smart and well behaved (from the picture created by the media) will be so stupid to be separated from her friends and go with 3 total strangers?

I'm not going to argue with you...I have better things to do with my time, but I am slightly agitated by your comments.

First off, do not stick this only to teenagers in the United States. http://bestsmileys.com/nono/3.gif We're not stupid or naive (at least not any less than any other teenager in any other country)...shit just happens.

Secondly, this could have happened to anyone...no matter how "bright, smart, and well behaved" they are. Anytime alcohol gets thrown into the equation, anything can happen and everything changes. I know (for a fact) Natalee is not the only person that has ever left a club with someone they've just met that night. I'm not even going to bother explaining this further, but as I said...shit happens.

Lee
07-08-2005, 01:03 AM
I'm not going to argue with you...I have better things to do with my time, but I am slightly agitated by your comments.

First off, do not stick this only to teenagers in the United States. http://bestsmileys.com/nono/3.gif We're not stupid or naive (at least not any less than any other teenager in any other country)...shit just happens.

Sorry if I accidentally applied to all teenagers. That's not my intention.

Secondly, this could have happened to anyone...no matter how "bright, smart, and well behaved" they are. Anytime alcohol gets thrown into the equation, anything can happen and everything changes. I know (for a fact) Natalee is not the only person that has ever left a club with someone they've just met that night. I'm not even going to bother explaining this further, but as I said...shit happens.

So blame this on alcohol? Nobody points a gun to anyone to drink too much alcohol to the point that they lost their good judgement. This is not shit just happens. This is preventable. Drinking alcohol to the point that your brain do not function the way it should be is not shit happens

Yes, you can tell all those people killed by drunk drivers that shit happens And no, I'm not just pointing to teenagers. I am aiming at all those people who drank to the point that they lost the good sense and jumped into a car and killing people.

El Legenda
07-08-2005, 01:34 AM
This story is gonna have a sad ending soon....they will probly find her in the bottom of the ocean :sad:

tennischick
07-08-2005, 03:22 AM
And when will the teenagers in US learned? This is not the first time that when students graduated from high school, take a tour to nearby foreign countries and get into trouble! How can a girl to be so bright, smart and well behaved (from the picture created by the media) will be so stupid to be separated from her friends and go with 3 total strangers?
because pepole (not just teenagers) do not see the caribbean islands as real countries in which real things can happen. they're supposed to be these idyllic getaways populated by innocent natives that dance the hula and fish money out of the sea with their teeth. i can't begin to describe how much this irks me.

if this teen had behaved the way she would have in her own hometown, this may not have happened. you don't go to another country and hang out with three strange men. but a lot of people -- including grown women -- have such foolish ideas about the caribbean that they make themselves vulnerable.

Chloe le Bopper
07-08-2005, 04:45 AM
Lee, teenagers (and adults, duh, but that's not really relevant here) do stupid things. I can say that I put myself in MANY situations where shit could have happened - it just didn't, because it doesn't most of the time people act stupid. I could say that I was lucky, but I tend think that the small percentage of people who are doing what is generally "normal behaviour" that get into trouble like this are just unlucky.

Allure
07-08-2005, 05:32 AM
It's so stupid if they blame Aruba. People get killed/kidnapped everywhere. People get *****/murdered in US everyday, so are we bad? :rolleyes:

Purple Rainbow
07-08-2005, 09:33 AM
Thanks for your comments everybody! :hug:
I've read several other discussions about this case, where the tone is that Aruba is a corrupt, drug trading shit hole, which should be boycotted and which has stupid inhabitants. Glad to know that there are reasonable people left on this earth, who can also spot the hypocrisy in the reoprting of this event. :)
I read a blog by a certain Dan Riehl, can anybody inform who this guy is? It seems to me he is one of those 黚ernationalists in the line of Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly. This Riehl character seems to have made it his life purpose to demonise Aruba into bankruptcy. :mad:

Action Jackson
07-08-2005, 09:36 AM
Nobody would have raised an eyelid if she was ugly, black or overweight.

Wednesday Addams
07-08-2005, 10:19 AM
.... or poor.

I think it's pretty ridiculous. Aruba officials doing overtime, arresting and then releasing ppl (because of lack of evidence) because they are pressured by the US and the parents.....Total chaos.

What strikes me is that they're so young, esp the prime suspect, Joran. 17 is a pretty young age to be kidnapping and/or killing someone.

Of all the theories (involving foul play), kidnapping and the possibility of the girl ODing (afterwhich the boys disposed of her body, not wanting to be blamed) are the most likely. But, esp because they are all so young, I doubt they actually planned a kidnapping... plus they are from reasonably good famillies... why the dire need for money?
As for her ODing, there's one question that bugs me.... can anyone actually be so dumb as to prefer disposing of a body (and therefore risking to be blamed with murder) to just admitting she ODed while they were out partying and doing drugs? Sure, that makes you irresponsible and all that, but at least ure not a murderer. :rolleyes:

Purple Rainbow
07-08-2005, 10:25 AM
Good question Dora. But it's not unlikely that Joran was drunk. And we all know that drunk people tend not to make rational decisions.
I go with the OD theory too. I can't believe those kids deliberately planned to kidnap and kill this girl. Neither can I believe that this girl is hiding somewhere. (Natalee Hideaway, sorry for the bad joke...:tape: )

Wednesday Addams
07-08-2005, 10:42 AM
Good question Dora. But it's not unlikely that Joran was drunk. And we all know that drunk people tend not to make rational decisions.
Oh, yeah, forgot abt that.
U think the father knows? (if he does, it would be pretty sad, for all the things that that implies..... being a judge and telling his kid to shut up abt it)

I go with the OD theory too. I can't believe those kids deliberately planned to kidnap and kill this girl.
Neither can I.

Neither can I believe that this girl is hiding somewhere. (Natalee Hideaway, sorry for the bad joke...:tape: )
:sad: Unfortunately, the runaway scenario is highly unlikely because:
1. She comes from a wealthy familly. Why would she runaway when that means a future of uncertainty?
2. She didn't know anybody from the island. It was the first time she was there. Plus, nobody else is missing and all her stuff was still at the hotel (including her money).
3. It's been more than a month. Surely, she must have heard smth..... (or maybe not, I hadn't either, until yesterday :o)

the cat
07-08-2005, 04:09 PM
You're welcome TC. And that's good advice you have for your niece. I hope she lives by it. Unfortunately I think your macabre theory is likely to have happened. :( My friend who has been to Aruba believes that too. She's convinced the goys killed her and threw her into the water to be devoured by sharks. :sad:

And TC it would be great if Natalee showed up alive in the future in a similar way the runaway bride did. :D But I just don't see that happening because everyone fears the worst for Natalee.

A very interesting post by Mrs. Guga.

And I think everyone can agree that when alocohol enters the picture and especially poeple consuming too juch alcohol bad things can happen to anyone including immature teenagers or mature adults. :( And that goes back centuries so it's nothing new.

Gonzo Hates Me!
07-08-2005, 07:08 PM
And when will the teenagers in US learned? How can a girl to be so bright, smart and well behaved (from the picture created by the media) will be so stupid to be separated from her friends and go with 3 total strangers?

This is just a part of being young. I mean, I left a club with two boys I thought were hot and "safe" last nite that I had never met before. But I wasn't ***** or killed. And I do things like this all the time. This is what young people do all the time, everywhere. Like Becca said, it's just a matter of being really unlucky because you never expect for the strangers you meet to be an axe murderer. And if they are, that sucks

Jogy
07-11-2005, 05:22 PM
If the people missing would be from Poland or any other little country nobody would be caring about them be missed in foreign countries :mad:

Yes, overrated act of somebody missing that is in whole news.

alfonsojose
07-11-2005, 06:24 PM
Nobody would have raised an eyelid if she was ugly, black or overweight.
:worship:

Action Jackson
07-11-2005, 06:27 PM
:worship:

Only saying the obvious alfie and what Jogy said is also right.

I mean there are many people in Colombia who have gone missing, but they are forgotten about.

alfonsojose
07-11-2005, 06:33 PM
Only saying the obvious alfie and what Jogy said is also right.

I mean there are many people in Colombia who have gone missing, but they are forgotten about.
:sad:

Action Jackson
07-11-2005, 06:39 PM
:sad:

Yes, we know the world isn't fair. It's like when something bad happens in one place, the stereotypes live in for too many people.

alfonsojose
07-11-2005, 06:42 PM
"do NOT do something in a foreign country that you would not do at home." it's that simple.
And i'm pretty sure she would. Of course it's sad what happened but she's not an angel at all. A "good girl "suddenly leaving late with boys :shrug:

Purple Rainbow
07-11-2005, 07:31 PM
Hey everybody, check out this site...

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/07/natalee_hollowa_22.html

My family members are being referred to as monkeys, chim-chim savages and the island I love is called "not worth the value of human waste".

Now I know that probably a small part of Americans watch Fox News and bother to respond to those hate-mongering sites. I also know there are tons of nice Americans out there, I've met plenty of them. But for me it gets ever harder not to get a serious dislike, if not hate, for Americans after reading stuff like that...

Gonzo Hates Me!
07-11-2005, 07:36 PM
Purple Rainbow, shit like that sucks. But being a minority in the US, I know that you HAVE to be patient with *some* people's ignorance, and know that at the end of the day, not everybody is THAT stupid

Purple Rainbow
07-11-2005, 07:42 PM
Okay, I might have overreacted. Let me rephrase to saying that there are some serious ignorant bastards in the States, who are making it very hard for their nice compratiots (who are undoubtedly the vast majority), to be viewed as nicely as they deserve.

alfonsojose
08-26-2005, 09:38 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/aruba_missing_teen;_ylt=Ak.Ju4ezzYlCg7Fo6VbnvgTa_J Yv;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

They arrested the Surinamese brothers again

StrangeAttractor
08-26-2005, 09:52 PM
To those of you who have lived in a cave the last month, an 18 year old American girl disappeared on Aruba, during a graduation holiday with her hgh school. The case has been running for a while now and getting an imho disproportional ammount of media attention.

No thread yet here about this topic, which is a big deal in my father's home country of Aruba.

I'm just curious if anybody has any interest in the story, if it gets any attention in the country where you live and if you have any opinions on the case.

Thanks!

If you're unfamiliar with the story, just google for "Natalee Holloway" and you'l find about 26,000 links..

This should've never been more than a 'local' news story. Just because of alleged victim is pretty the media has whored itself out in a big way. How many people go missing every day in the US? Do they get any treatment like this?

Screw the media.

the cat
08-27-2005, 02:52 PM
I hope the authorities now have the solid evidence to hold the brothers in jail if they played a role in the death of Natalee Holloway.

*karen*
08-28-2005, 12:21 AM
Not really heard anything in the press but I had read about it on the internet

alfonsojose
11-08-2005, 07:11 PM
Alabama Governor Calls for Aruba Boycott

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051108/ap_on_re_us/missing_teen_boycott
:mad: again, what if Holloway had been an hispanic, fat teenager :rolleyes:

MissMoJo
11-08-2005, 07:26 PM
Alabama Governor Calls for Aruba Boycott

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051108/ap_on_re_us/missing_teen_boycott
:mad: again, what if Holloway had been an hispanic, fat teenager :rolleyes:
hah i think you know the answer to that one
btw, i saw on a news magazine that they're exploring the possibility( led by Dr.Phil!) that she may have been sold into white slavery

PaulieM
11-08-2005, 07:37 PM
:mad: again, what if Holloway had been an hispanic, fat teenager :rolleyes:
it would never have made the news :rolleyes:

Purple Rainbow
11-08-2005, 08:40 PM
Alabama Governor Calls for Aruba Boycott

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051108/ap_on_re_us/missing_teen_boycott
:mad: again, what if Holloway had been an hispanic, fat teenager :rolleyes:

What would give Alabama moral authority over Aruba? F*ck Alabama. I will bet you ten to one that Arubans are smarter, more sophisticated (most Arubans are fluent in four languages) and kinder than Joe "I shag my own sister and kill my black neighbour" Sixpack in Birmingham, Alabama.
I realise that by posting this I disprove my statement that Arubans are kind, sophisticated people, but I can only take so much. Why can't people let the case rest. Depriving hard-working people from their only source of income is not going to make this world a better place.

I was hoping writing this would make me feel better, unfortunately it didn't.

buddyholly
11-08-2005, 09:13 PM
Why can't people let the case rest.

They let the killer go to Holland, Daddy had influence.
Would you let it go, if the victim happened to be a member of your family? I wouldn't abandon a family member if it happened to one of them.
Boycott the place. The hard-working people can then kick out their corrupt government.

You can be intelligent and fabricate a cover-up, why compare the people of Aruba with the people of Alabama?

Purple Rainbow
11-08-2005, 09:34 PM
They let the killer go to Holland, Daddy had influence.
Would you let it go, if the victim happened to be a member of your family? I wouldn't abandon a family member if it happened to one of them.
Boycott the place. The hard-working people can then kick out their corrupt government.

You can be intelligent and fabricate a cover-up, why compare the people of Aruba with the people of Alabama?

Last time I checked, somebody is not guilty until proven otherwise. To speak of a killer in this case seems a bit short-sighted.
You seem to know very well what happened the night Natalee disappeared, you also appear pretty knowledgeable about what happened afterwards. Furthermore, you seem to have thorougly investigated the state of affairs of Aruban politics. I suppose with your blinding wisdom, you would also know the exact whereabouts of Natalee Hideaway? Please enlighten me.
In other words, stop watching Fox News and jumping to conclusions. I would have expected better from somebody who is intelligent enough to be a follower of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. :mad:

buddyholly
11-08-2005, 11:50 PM
Last time I checked, somebody is not guilty until proven otherwise.

And nobody in Aruba will even try to prove him guilty due to the influence of daddy over the police. He would be not guilty in your opinion if no trial can take place???? A very neat way to let him off. I would bet my own life he either did it or can tell a court who did. Not much intelligence needed to figure that out. Ohhh, get him to Holland quick.
Every day a different account of what happened. Enough variation to indicate guilt to me.

buddyholly
11-08-2005, 11:57 PM
:mad: again, what if Holloway had been an hispanic, fat teenager :rolleyes:

They wouldn't have abducted her?
They wouldn't have killed her?
Her mother would not care about her?

What point are you making?

buddyholly
11-09-2005, 12:01 AM
Nobody would have raised an eyelid if she was ugly, black or overweight.

Her mother would.

buddyholly
11-09-2005, 12:08 AM
It's so stupid if they blame Aruba. People get killed/kidnapped everywhere. People get *****/murdered in US everyday, so are we bad? :rolleyes:

They blame Aruba, not for a murder/kidnap/whatever, but for a cover-up for a Dutch teenager with a powerful daddy.

buddyholly
11-09-2005, 12:28 AM
Why can't people let the case rest. Depriving hard-working people from their only source of income is not going to make this world a better place.



You initiated the thread. Now you apparently would like it all to go away. It turned out that the Natalee affair made it clear that powerful corrupt people in Aruba can control the police and legal department.

My original opinion happened to be that the media paid too much attention to Natalee. I changed my opinion when it became clear that a big cover-up took place in Aruba to let a Dutch teenager go free. The teenager had a daddy with enough power in Aruba to order a cover-up. Apparently you can get away with murder in Aruba if you have a powerful daddy

Silawen
11-09-2005, 12:37 AM
I changed my opinion when it became clear that a big cover-up took place in Aruba to let a Dutch teenager go free. The teenager had a daddy with enough power in Aruba to order a cover-up. Apparently you can get away with murder in Aruba if you have a powerful daddy

I'm pretty sure the same would have happened were it an American, German, Polish or whatever teenager, seeing as they had held the guy for far too long without substancial evidence. It has nothing to do with the guy being Dutch.
The case has been investigated and he has not been found guilty, thus they have nothing to stand on when it comes to retaining him.

This case is petty, these things happen all around the world and only because it's a blonde, pretty and rich american girl is it turned into a big deal. Read your local newspapers and worry about those cases instead.

alfonsojose
11-09-2005, 01:52 AM
They wouldn't have abducted her?
They wouldn't have killed her?
Her mother would not care about her?

What point are you making?
This is my point

It is something totally wrong and sad what happened, but to attack a whole island because of that is unfair. There was nobody taken care of a drunk girl, who decided to go with three guys she did not know. Of course, that does not justify such a crime (no idea about what crime still :sad: ) but killers, criminals and rapists are everywhere, as powerful rich guys hiding their kid's shit. But making this a ''save the world from Aruba'' story is ridiculous.

buddyholly
11-09-2005, 02:28 PM
Boycott Colombia now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

buddyholly
11-09-2005, 02:34 PM
The case has been investigated and he has not been found guilty, thus they have nothing to stand on when it comes to retaining him.



In a very incompetent manner. Actually I do not even agree, I want to know more about the cover-up. Do we have to accept that today the guilty go free and that people can not be bothered anymore?

buddyholly
11-09-2005, 02:38 PM
This case is petty, these things happen all around the world and only because it's a blonde, pretty and rich american girl is it turned into a big deal. Read your local newspapers and worry about those cases instead.

You call murder ''petty''. I have a different definition of petty. I read what I want to read, thank you.

PaulieM
11-09-2005, 02:56 PM
Her mother would.
yes her mother would, but it never would have made the news and it certainly wouldn't have become the huge saga that this case has. and no aruba is not the only place where people with a lot of money get away with a lot of stuff, it happens everywhere including in the good old u.s.a. it's sad what happend to this girl and her family but it happens every single day all around the world, and those stories barely make the local news let alone start national boycotts. this case has been blown out of proportion, people are doing their best to help this family which is a lot more most families would get. they're asking for their case to be taken seriously, but the way they are acting now is the last thing that's going to make that happen.

Silawen
11-09-2005, 03:58 PM
You call murder ''petty''. I have a different definition of petty. I read what I want to read, thank you.

Don't put words in my mouth. I called this case petty, meaning the way it has been treated, not the subject matter. Don't assume you know what I meant.
Of course murder is horrendous and not at all petty, but the way this case has been treated is. I doubt a blonde Dutch girl gone missing would have garnered as much attention from international newspapers.

This case has been discussed to the fullest, but the facts remain that:
1) Aruba investigated the case and could not find evidence that the guy had done it. You may not like Aruba, but I doubt that if there was any clear evidence that he'd done that they would let him go.
2) They retained him for too long without evidence. Arubian (sp?) law and Dutch law don't account for that. His father only used this knowledge to get his son free.
3) You don't have facts supporting his guilt either, thus saying "Do we have to accept that today the guilty go free and that people can not be bothered anymore?" is completely useless and unfair to someone who has yet to be proven guilty. No we should not accept that the guilty go free, but then he has not been found guilty. Obviously people are bothered, which is why this single case has gotten the attention that millions all across the world do not. This is also a point which bothers me. Why is there such a fuss over an rich American girl when thousands go missing throughout the year, including in the US. Don't blame Aruba for something that happens in other countries as well.
4) If you are so sure the guy's guilty then give us proof.
5) The guy has not been proven guilty, thus he does not deserve this shite.

As said before, worry about the thousands of cases in your own country first, blame your own country for not solving those and worry about those instead of this one.

buddyholly
11-09-2005, 04:19 PM
blonde, pretty and rich

Could be the Dutch boy.

If you think it petty to look for the killer, then you clearly think killing to be petty.
And you keep avoiding to acknowledge that evidence may well have been hidden in the cover-up, which is a lot different from there being no evidence.
From all the evidence on tape from the three supects it is very clear that they know what happened to Natalee. Thats is why the boy was sent to Holland and the surinam brothers get off if they keep their mouths shut.

buddyholly
11-09-2005, 04:23 PM
As said before, worry about the thousands of cases in your own country first, blame your own country for not solving those and worry about those instead of this one.

What country are you talking about?

What utter tripe you wrote.

Silawen
11-09-2005, 05:54 PM
Could be the Dutch boy.

If you think it petty to look for the killer, then you clearly think killing to be petty.
And you keep avoiding to acknowledge that evidence may well have been hidden in the cover-up, which is a lot different from there being no evidence.
From all the evidence on tape from the three supects it is very clear that they know what happened to Natalee. Thats is why the boy was sent to Holland and the surinam brothers get off if they keep their mouths shut.

Oh come off it. If you have a problem with the Dutch then say so or stop referring to him like that.

I clearly stated I do not fing killing petty, nor the looking for the killer. You just want to find something wrong with what I said. I have already stated that I meant the *way* this whole case has been treated petty, not the case itself. So don't dramatize what I've said, I am not a heartless wench.

You keep avoiding to acknowledge that there might not be any evidence. Give me the facts them, show me how 'clear' it is that they know what happened to Natalee. Obviously you have no faith in Dutch law, because if someone was clearly guilty then he would be imprisoned.

What country are you talking about?

What utter tripe you wrote.

Your country, any country. It's not just in Aruba that these things happen, you know, it's just this case that gets brought up again and again.

Thanks for the respectful discussion, obviously you can't handle someone disagreeing with you. I'm going to withdraw from this discussion until you can act maturely and respectfully towards someone's opinion and words. Have a nice day.

revolution
11-09-2005, 09:40 PM
Not being harsh here, but if it had been a small tubby fat lad/girl, there would not have been anywhere near the same media coverage, it would have only been a side story. This girl is extremely gorgeous, so of course her disappearance is going to make the front pages.

One of the detectives said they believed she was alive... maybe she is, but surely she wouldn't be like this to her parents.

buddyholly
11-09-2005, 10:56 PM
Thanks for the respectful discussion, obviously you can't handle someone disagreeing with you. I'm going to withdraw from this discussion until you can act maturely and respectfully towards someone's opinion and words. Have a nice day.

The tried and true MTF way to admit defeat.
You don't have to agree with me, I don't have to agree with you. I can handle it. Or there would be no debate. Probably what you want, actually.

Purple Rainbow
11-09-2005, 11:04 PM
What country are you talking about?

What utter tripe you wrote.

Well, you can't blame him for thinking you are American. You sound like an archtypical GOP member.
Where are you from anyway?

buddyholly
11-09-2005, 11:09 PM
Well, you can't blame him for thinking you are American. You sound like an archtypical GOP member.
Where are you from anyway?

Read my profile.

I know of nothing political in the Natalee affair.

dkw
11-09-2005, 11:22 PM
Buddyholly are you being facetious?

I've read many of your post in various threads and to me they seem to have a subtle cynical edge to them. So I find it hard to believe that you actually buy into the "Aruba Conspiracy" theory so wholeheartedly.

Personally... I've been following the case from day one and at first I thought the boys may be guilty >>> How could Natalee just disappear.

Now after watching parts of an interview with Joran (the bit where he's interviewed in Holland, he has his knapsack so it seems the interviewer caught him at school) I think he's just a regular teen who was last seen with the wrong girl at the wrong time.

If it turns out that he is indeed guilty of killing Natalee, then he must be the most diabolical of killers because to me he seems so harmless :shrug:

Chloe le Bopper
11-10-2005, 01:32 AM
buddyholly is either taking the piss, or he needs to pass the bong this way.

alfonsojose
11-10-2005, 02:59 AM
The tried and true MTF way to admit defeat.
You don't have to agree with me, I don't have to agree with you. I can handle it. Or there would be no debate. Probably what you want, actually.
WTF happened to u :sad: :cuckoo:

buddyholly
11-10-2005, 01:38 PM
Yes, I am completely convinced that Joran's dad's influence in Aruba is the only reason he is now off the island. I do not think he is a killer, but something went wrong that night. We have seen the story from Joran and the brothers change as events unfolded. Why would they lie repeatedly if they are innocent? ;
We certainly know that he was able to carouse around Aruban nightspots even though underage, with daddy's protection.

alfonso:I was one of the first to post in another thread that there are many similar teenagers that go missing in Miami and it is not a big story. But now I see a separate story in the cover-up and find that worthy of investigation.

Kristen
11-10-2005, 01:41 PM
**ding-ding-ding**
Now I see why the nickname moronholly exists :D

I have a soft spot for these MTFers who twist words around to get the worst possible meaning, and attack posters, putting words in their mouth. Maybe this soft spot is where they dropped me on my head when I was born :shrug:

Kristen
11-10-2005, 01:43 PM
Its also nice to see lately, posters bothering to use the search tool :yeah:

Good to see your interest in the issue though bh.... what else would we be doing in the off season (aside from working heaps and spending all our money on adelaide tickets, hotels, airfares...)

buddyholly
11-10-2005, 01:47 PM
Don't put words in my mouth. I called this case petty, meaning the way it has been treated, not the subject matter. Don't assume you know what I meant.
Of course murder is horrendous and not at all petty, but the way this case has been treated is. I doubt a blonde Dutch girl gone missing would have garnered as much attention from international newspapers.



He/she calls the case petty, then claims that everyone should know he meant the treatment of the case was petty, not the actual case. And you accuse me of twisting words. Get real.

Lee
11-10-2005, 05:34 PM
He/she calls the case petty, then claims that everyone should know he meant the treatment of the case was petty, not the actual case. And you accuse me of twisting words. Get real.

That's your interpretation of the post. When I first read Silawen's post, I called this case petty, meaning the way it has been treated, not the subject matter. this is my understanding too.

buddyholly
11-10-2005, 05:50 PM
This case is petty, these things happen all around the world and only because it's a blonde, pretty and rich american girl is it turned into a big deal. Read your local newspapers and worry about those cases instead.

创This case is petty创,.........

You can磘 get more literal than that. Maybe my mistake was to take it literally.

And anyway, what is wrong with being blonde, pretty and rich? Although I am not aware of any info that shows Natalee was rich. I expect maybe a little bit of envy on Silawen磗 part.

Lastly, I find it interesting that the two posters with Dutch ties seem to be saying 创Please, enough already, we prefer people not to think any more about Natalee. The publicity is bad for the economy in Aruba创
I like mysteries and puzzles and consider the Natalee case and the 创investigation创 fascinating. I want to know more.

And Silawen, I do read the local papers. The most recent high profile case in Costa Rica was that of an American female student murdered in the rain forest and then her body was burned. The girl was Shannon Martin and the case was solved two and a half years later due to the relentless persistence of Shannon磗 mother in seeking justice. The two convicted killers are now in jail. Sound familiar?

buddyholly
04-09-2006, 03:09 AM
Chief Dompig has been removed as chief investigator in the Natalee Holloway case, almost a year after her disappearance. It now appears Dompig is related to the two brothers who are/were main suspects.
A day or so after Dompig's removal, a new witness comes forward to say that Natalee died of a drug overdose after buying drugs from him. He is apparently a convicted drug dealer and reportedly the brother-in-law of Dompig.
Is it inbreeding that makes the Aruban authorities the dumbest people on the planet?

Purple Rainbow
04-10-2006, 08:55 AM
Chief Dompig has been removed as chief investigator in the Natalee Holloway case, almost a year after her disappearance. It now appears Dompig is related to the two brothers who are/were main suspects.
A day or so after Dompig's removal, a new witness comes forward to say that Natalee died of a drug overdose after buying drugs from him. He is apparently a convicted drug dealer and reportedly the brother-in-law of Dompig.
Is it inbreeding that makes the Aruban authorities the dumbest people on the planet?

I'd appreciate it if you were to talk about Arubans with a little bit more respect. At least we didn't elect a gun-toting moron, and after four years of lying, killing and stealing decide to re-elect him.

buddyholly
04-10-2006, 02:15 PM
I'd appreciate it if you were to talk about Arubans with a little bit more respect. At least we didn't elect a gun-toting moron, and after four years of lying, killing and stealing decide to re-elect him.

You failed to respond to the quote. I said ''Aruban authorities'', not Aruban people in general, as you imply.
What has George Bush got to do with all this? I do not understand. Are you saying Natalee was an American and deserved to die because George Bush was elected?
Maybe you are implying I am American? (Wrong).
Maybe you just think the easy way is to blame George Bush for everything, even the incompetence and corruption of the Aruban authorities. I don't know who Arubans elected, but if he appointed Dompig as Chief Investigator then he probably is a moron.

Purple Rainbow
04-10-2006, 03:50 PM
You failed to respond to the quote. I said ''Aruban authorities'', not Aruban people in general, as you imply.
What has George Bush got to do with all this? I do not understand. Are you saying Natalee was an American and deserved to die because George Bush was elected?
Maybe you are implying I am American? (Wrong).
Maybe you just think the easy way is to blame George Bush for everything, even the incompetence and corruption of the Aruban authorities. I don't know who Arubans elected, but if he appointed Dompig as Chief Investigator then he probably is a moron.

I brought Bush up, cause you accused Arubans of being inbreeding retards. I now see that you were talking about leadership in general, soit, it is still a moronic statement as it is.

Okay, to answer your question about Aruban leadership. Aruba is a tiny island with a population of barely 100,000. Though Aruba is the most developed, educated and richest island in the Caribean, it us too small to have a substantial amount of capable politicians. There just aren't enough grad students opting to be a politician on Aruba. Of course having many educated politicians doesn't automatically imply a country will end up with good government, but I am drifting off again.

Back to the questions, of course Natalee didn't deserve to die, and the assertion that it is because she is American is ridiculous. We are not talking about extremists here. To me, the chances of her being murdered are not bigger than the chance that she took her own life. Drunk people do crazy things sometimes.

I am not knowledgable about the competencies of the Aruban police. Point is that they hadn't faced a case of a missing foreigner before, it's a quiet and peaceful island.

I'd appreciate it if you apologised for accusing Aruban authorities of inbreeding.

buddyholly
04-10-2006, 04:21 PM
Back to the questions, of course Natalee didn't deserve to die, and the assertion that it is because she is American is ridiculous. We are not talking about extremists here. To me, the chances of her being murdered are not bigger than the chance that she took her own life. Drunk people do crazy things sometimes.



OK, she committed suicide and then disposed of her own body!!!!!!!!!! You are thinking like an Aruban detective :lol:

alfonsojose
04-10-2006, 04:27 PM
OK, she committed suicide and then disposed of her own body!!!!!!!!!! You are thinking like an Aruban detective :lol:
:lol:

buddyholly
04-10-2006, 04:40 PM
I am not knowledgable about the competencies of the Aruban police. Point is that they hadn't faced a case of a missing foreigner before, it's a quiet and peaceful island.



Did you just make this up? Even visitaruba.com has a list.

Purple Rainbow
04-10-2006, 05:58 PM
OK, she committed suicide and then disposed of her own body!!!!!!!!!! You are thinking like an Aruban detective :lol:

You drown in the sea and the undercurrent will take you to the ocean.. Very possible.

buddyholly
04-10-2006, 08:58 PM
You drown in the sea and the undercurrent will take you to the ocean.. Very possible.

Unweighted bodies float.
Sorry, but the attorney's son and the investigators' relatives are liars, who have changed their stories a number of times. It is obvious they know what happened to Natalee. Innocent people don't lie.

mandoura
04-12-2006, 09:09 AM
Unweighted bodies float.
Sorry, but the attorney's son and the investigators' relatives are liars, who have changed their stories a number of times. It is obvious they know what happened to Natalee. Innocent people don't lie.

Buddy, an off topic question, relying on your expertise in diving:

How can someone take a dive and never resurface? Two of my friends lost their kids this way, one last year and the other 5 years ago. I lost a friend 25 years ago the same way. :sad:

Lee
04-12-2006, 09:18 PM
Unweighted bodies float.

It depends on where the body finally floats. It may be somewhere far far away from the coast in the ocean and nobody saw. And after awhile, the body finally sinks again.

Lee
04-12-2006, 09:19 PM
Buddy, an off topic question, relying on your expertise in diving:

How can someone take a dive and never resurface? Two of my friends lost their kids this way, one last year and the other 5 years ago. I lost a friend 25 years ago the same way. :sad:

:hug:

buddyholly
04-13-2006, 02:22 AM
How can someone take a dive and never resurface? Two of my friends lost their kids this way, one last year and the other 5 years ago. I lost a friend 25 years ago the same way. :sad:

I assume you do not mean SCUBA diving, because people don't SCUBA alone. In rare cases when something goes wrong there is usually a witness.

And as for ''taking a dive and never resurfacing'', you will have to tell me more. People who dive on a single breath can only stay underwater for a minute or so, so it is unlikely they would not resurface. Do you mean they went swimming and disappeared? I suppose they could be swept out to sea and in a lonely area not be seen.
If you are suggesting this happened to Natalee, I can not agree. I have lived in the Caribbean area for over 30 years. I have never encountered a current. And there are many small pleasure boats around Aruba.

Iheartandy&roger
04-13-2006, 04:12 AM
I am so pissed of how they all have treated this case it is such horseshit and it's such a shame. Hopefully one day the parents will be able to rest their minds....

mandoura
04-13-2006, 03:22 PM
I assume you do not mean SCUBA diving, because people don't SCUBA alone. In rare cases when something goes wrong there is usually a witness.

My uncle scuba dives and he said more than once that one of the most important rules is never to dive alone. In the case of my friends' sons, yes they scuba dived alone :eek: . Both had company but separated from them under water to "adventurously" explore something and never re-surfaced.

My friend, who disappeared 25 years ago, had 2 friends with him. They were diving in Sharm El Sheikh. There is a tunnel there called Devil's arm (dubbed death tunnel). He and one of his friends wanted to explore the tunnel. They went together and never resurfaced. The third one did not.

And as for ''taking a dive and never resurfacing'', you will have to tell me more. People who dive on a single breath can only stay underwater for a minute or so, so it is unlikely they would not resurface. Do you mean they went swimming and disappeared? I suppose they could be swept out to sea and in a lonely area not be seen.

Of course. I meant scuba diving.

If you are suggesting this happened to Natalee, I can not agree. I have lived in the Caribbean area for over 30 years. I have never encountered a current. And there are many small pleasure boats around Aruba.

The first thing I posted was "off topic". No, I am not suggesting this is what happened to Natalee. In fact I have no suggestions.

buddyholly
04-14-2006, 01:18 AM
Mandoura:
Anyone who dives in a cave (tunnel) and is not experienced is asking for trouble. It is not surprising they did not resurface, how could you once you hit the roof of the cave? If it was a large cave it is obvious they could not find their way back and ran out of air.

As for the boys, hard to believe that 2 brothers died the same way in separate incidents. In their case I can only assume that something went wrong and being weighted they did not surface. It is very strange because at the first sign of trouble most people will abort the dive and head for the surface. Careless people who go too deep can become delirious and just keep on going down until they pass out.
Don't get mad at me, but it is almost impossible to believe that 2 brothers disappeared after swimming away from their buddies. My first guess would be suicide.
I was supposed to dive at Sharm el Sheikh, to see the shark swarms, but in between reserving with an Israeli company in Eliat and arriving in the Red Sea, Israel gave Sharm el Sheikh to Egypt and it was out of bounds!!!!!!!!!!!!

mandoura
04-14-2006, 03:22 AM
Mandoura:
Anyone who dives in a cave (tunnel) and is not experienced is asking for trouble. It is not surprising they did not resurface, how could you once you hit the roof of the cave? If it was a large cave it is obvious they could not find their way back and ran out of air.

As for the boys, hard to believe that 2 brothers died the same way in separate incidents. In their case I can only assume that something went wrong and being weighted they did not surface. It is very strange because at the first sign of trouble most people will abort the dive and head for the surface. Careless people who go too deep can become delirious and just keep on going down until they pass out.
Don't get mad at me, but it is almost impossible to believe that 2 brothers disappeared after swimming away from their buddies. My first guess would be suicide.
I was supposed to dive at Sharm el Sheikh, to see the shark swarms, but in between reserving with an Israeli company in Eliat and arriving in the Red Sea, Israel gave Sharm el Sheikh to Egypt and it was out of bounds!!!!!!!!!!!!

Buddy,

First, thank you for your posts. :)

Now, on with being mad :haha: .

I think you did not read my posts correctly (don't get mad at me but I would love to say as usual :p ) .

Here is what I wrote in my previous posts:

Two of my friends lost their kids this way, one last year and the other 5 years ago.

And

In the case of my friends' sons, yes they scuba dived alone :eek: .

Note the Two and the plural in friends. Won't you agree it is safe to conclude, or at least assume (and you are an expert in the assumptions sector ;) :hug: ) they are 2 completely different friends? I don't know why you assumed they were brothers :shrug: and chose to guess it was suicide (as if their death was not morbid enough). To make it clear, they were 2 different friends.

NB: I don't get mad, just a tad annoyed of your endless assumptions. :D

buddyholly
04-14-2006, 03:26 PM
When you said two of your friends I assumed that you were referring to a husband and wife. You may get mad again, but maybe in your culture you assume that friends can only be of the same sex, but in mine when someone writes ''Two of my friends lost their kids this way,'' I think nearly everyone would assume that you are referring to a family. Anyway, sorry about that. But I have read your post over and over and ''Two of my friends lost their kids this way'' only brings up an image of two parents and their kids. The use of the word ''their'' suggests joint ownership. If you had said ''Two of my friends lost kids this way,'' this has an entirely different meaning, so maybe it is just a nuance of English. And when you say ''one last year and the other...'' this also bolsters the impression of two siblings.

Anyway, I made the clinical judgement that suicide could be a possibility. You asked my opinion as a diver. It is not an opinion on the actual people, whom I don't know. But as a diver, in my experience it is almost inconceivable to disappear on a dive. The only way I can see to do that is to keep going down and the only way I can see to do that is either to ignore safety rules and go so deep that I lost conciousness or to do it deliberately. Even after losing conciousness and passing out it is more likely that the body would surface because most divers feel more comfortable being slightly positive in their buoyancy. It is a nicer feeling having to kick slightly to keep yourself down than having to kick to keep yourself from sinking.
Sorry if you don't like my conclusions. But I am confused as to why you are mad at me for guessing suicide. You seem to think I should rule that out, based on not wanting to entertain emotionally or culturally unacceptable conclusions. But from the information you gave me and from my experience as a diver that is something I would immediately consider. When you asked my opinion, surely you realized that you were asking me to make a guess as to what might have happened.

mandoura
04-14-2006, 05:36 PM
When you said two of your friends I assumed that you were referring to a husband and wife. You may get mad again, but maybe in your culture you assume that friends can only be of the same sex, but in mine when someone writes ''Two of my friends lost their kids this way,'' I think nearly everyone would assume that you are referring to a family. Anyway, sorry about that. But I have read your post over and over and ''Two of my friends lost their kids this way'' only brings up an image of two parents and their kids. The use of the word ''their'' suggests joint ownership. If you had said ''Two of my friends lost kids this way,'' this has an entirely different meaning, so maybe it is just a nuance of English.
Anyway, I made the third party judgement that suicide could be a possibility. You asked my opinion as a diver. It is not an opinion on the actual people, whom I don't know. But as a diver, in my experience it is almost inconceivable to disappear on a dive. The only way I can see to do that is to keep going down and the only way I can see to do that is either to ignore safety rules and go so deep that I lost conciousness or to do it deliberately. Even after losing conciousness and passing out it is more likely that the body would surface because most divers feel more comfortable being slightly positive in their buoyancy. It is a nicer feeling having to kick slightly to keep yourself down than having to kick to keep yourself from sinking.
Sorry if you don't like my conclusions. But I am confused as to why you are mad at me for guessing suicide. You seem to think I should rule that out, based on not wanting to entertain emotionally or culturally unacceptable conclusions. But from the information you gave me and from my experience as a diver that is something I would immediately consider. When you asked my opinion, surely you realized that you were asking me to make a guess as to what might have happened.

Buddy,

I am not mad and I don't get mad. So please when you think I am mad, can you just rule out the possibility and remember that I don't get mad? :mad: :lol:

My culture has nothing to do with this particular nuance of English and is not in any way related to my question. However, you keep bringing my culture up in almost every discussion we have and make groundless assumptions about what/how I think based solely on your perception of my culture which obviously you know very little about.

Yes, I asked your opinion based on your experience as a diver. If you remember the question, it was: How can someone take a dive and never resurface? I was asking for scientific/technical explanations from an experienced diver and, I thought, a rational person. Instead, I got an English lesson, false assumptions about my culture and, of course, a typical sentence combining Israel and Egypt in the same sentence. :shrug:

Anyway, thank you for the information you provided. I am sorry to have bothered you. I won't in the future.

You see, I really used to enjoy our conversations. It's a pity I don't anymore. As long as you keep bringing my culture up in every single discussion and make baseless assumptions on how or what I think, there is really no point in discussing further. It's easier to let you assume, based on my culture, how I will react to any subject because, surely, you will know better than me. Besides, at my age I should preserve energy. :)

Stay well Bud. :wavey:

buddyholly
04-14-2006, 06:53 PM
I am sorry you feel like that. I tried to give you an answer to the best of my ability and you throw it back in my face. You really hurt me and give me the impression that you think everything I say is designed to annoy you.
You seem annoyed that I did not immediately understand that you were talking about two unrelated friends. My assumption that they were a married couple seems reasonable to me based on your phrasing and my knowledge of English. So why do you think I should never have assumed it was a married couple and instinctively have understood your ambiguous phrase?
As for the reason for the disappearance, on the information you gave me and based on my experience I answered as honestly as I could. But you seem to be saying ''ridiculous, unthinkable''. And you seem to be implying that to consider suicide is an insult to your culture, but suicide is also a sin for Christians. I am so confident in the safety of diving that I think it is virtually impossible for a Scuba diver to not resurface, unless that is what the diver intended. What else can I say? You seem to be saying that only a scientific/technical explanation involving his equipment or ocean currents should be considered.
The reference to Egypt, Israel and Sharm el Sheikh was supposed to give you a laugh, but it seems I can't even do that any more. Sad.

buddyholly
04-14-2006, 06:56 PM
Anyway, thank you for the information you provided. I am sorry to have bothered you. I won't in the future.

:

This is the part that hurts. You didn't bother me. I was anxious to give you my honest opinion.

cobalt60
04-14-2006, 08:41 PM
:topic: you know I like you both very much and maybe there has just been some miscommunication. It happens a lot as it is hard to always understand some stuff that is posted. And I get misunderstood as well even when I post to other English speaking folks. So you just never know. I even think that when one is angry the post gets even more misconstrued/misunderstood. Easier to talk in person; easier to experience in real life. Ok done;)

mandoura
04-14-2006, 10:34 PM
This is the part that hurts. You didn't bother me. I was anxious to give you my honest opinion.

Awww Buddy :hug: . I am really really sorry I hurt you. It was never my intention. For an unknown reason, God (for me it is Allah but I accept and respect the Flying Spagetti Monster as yours :) ) only knows why, I have a soft spot for you :hug: .

I will not reply to your other post because again YOU ARE THINKING FOR ME AND PRESUMING THINGS BASED ON MY CULTURE WHEN IT SHOULD BE IRRELEVANT. :p

I will give you my honest opinion: I think you are tiring and incorrigible but, still, I like you a lot. :)

And since you've made it clear I didn't bother you (see, I take your word for it and don't jump to assumptions ;) ) , I will rely on your expertise whenever I need to. :D

Hope you're not hurt anymore. :hug:

NB: Sue is right. Reading is not like listening. Voice intonation and facial expressions make a big difference. :)

buddyholly
04-15-2006, 02:51 AM
I think you were just having a bad day because it's Good Friday.

mandoura
04-15-2006, 03:09 AM
I think you were just having a bad day because it's Good Friday.

:lol: Maybe. I am not going to argue with that. One thing though: Good Friday here is next Friday, according to the Coptic calendar. ;)

Happy Easter Bud. :)

buddyholly
04-15-2006, 03:33 AM
Happy Easter Bud. :)
Stop insulting my culture.

I reckon it's about 4.30 am in Cairo. GET A LIFE!

buddyholly
04-15-2006, 03:38 AM
:topic: you know I like you both very much and maybe there has just been some miscommunication.

Butt out.

mandoura
04-15-2006, 03:51 AM
Stop insulting my culture.

I reckon it's about 4.30 am in Cairo. GET A LIFE!

Yes it is. I am up for dawn prayers. :)

mandoura
04-15-2006, 03:52 AM
Stop insulting my culture.

I reckon it's about 4.30 am in Cairo. GET A LIFE!

:o So sorry. Happy Farfalle Bud.

mandoura
04-15-2006, 03:54 AM
Butt out.

:haha:

She is my personal doctor and, in my culture, she speaks in my name. :p

buddyholly
04-15-2006, 02:22 PM
:o So sorry. Happy Farfalle Bud.

I don't eat Arabic food.

buddyholly
04-15-2006, 02:24 PM
:haha:

She is my personal doctor and, in my culture, she speaks in my name. :p

I don't think a Jewish mother is the best choice as peacemaker in this.

mandoura
04-15-2006, 04:29 PM
I don't eat Arabic food.

:eek: I thought Farfalle was the FSM messenger. :)

mandoura
04-15-2006, 04:30 PM
I don't think a Jewish mother is the best choice as peacemaker in this.

But of course, she is a perfect, actually the best, choice. :)

cobalt60
04-15-2006, 04:59 PM
Butt out.
:kiss: my butt :p

buddyholly
04-15-2006, 11:45 PM
:eek: I thought Farfalle was the FSM messenger. :)

He's 100% pasta, not chick peas.

cobalt60
04-15-2006, 11:46 PM
He's 100% pasta, not chick peas.
Falafel is 100% chickpeas;)

buddyholly
04-16-2006, 04:14 AM
Falafel is 100% chickpeas;)

Farfalle - Falafel

OK, it was a bit of a stretch.

mandoura
04-16-2006, 07:17 AM
Farfalle is 100% past.

mandoura
04-16-2006, 07:24 AM
And, Egyptian Falafel has no chickpeas in it. :p

cobalt60
04-16-2006, 01:25 PM
And, Egyptian Falafel has no chickpeas in it. :p
Hmm what is it made from then Mando?

mandoura
04-16-2006, 03:30 PM
Fava beans.

Iheartandy&roger
04-17-2006, 07:49 PM
Way to go on the arrest they made :bigclap: :yeah:

alfonsojose
04-17-2006, 08:09 PM
:eek: She's on Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natalee_Holloway

NATAS81
04-17-2006, 08:33 PM
Well yeah, everything is on Wikipedia. :cool:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everything

mandoura
04-18-2006, 12:17 AM
^ :)

buddyholly
11-22-2007, 02:27 PM
BUMP
This case has been a no-brainer from the start. Even more so than OJ. I hope justice gets done this time and the Aruba police are finally doing their job.

Purple Rainbow
02-03-2008, 10:52 PM
Joran is f*cked.
He made a full confession on hidden camera. The show just aired in Holland.
The girl supposedly died when they were making out on the beach.
Joran was never sure she was actually dead, but called a friend (whose name he said on tape) to help him dispose of the body.
Joran also said not feeling a thing about her dead, and get this, actually seemed to be happy at having been able to make some money out of the situation.

Carlita
02-03-2008, 10:56 PM
What an arrogant little bastard! He makes me sick! I hope he gets everything he deserves!

Not even knowing for sure if she was dead or not.....only thinking about himself :fiery: It's shocking to see how he talks about it and Natalee.....

~*BGT*~
02-03-2008, 11:51 PM
Wasn't this case closed?

anon57
02-04-2008, 10:01 AM
Joran's one twisted individual, and I hope they'll be able to put him away for doing this.

HybridTheory
02-04-2008, 12:16 PM
It's horrible what happened and I'm hoping there is enough evidence provided now to lock this guy up. I don't think it's right though to insinuate that this was murder. The girl should have taken responsebility as well, she was drunk and stoned as hell, and probably killed herself. Don't get me wrong, ofcourse they should have called for help at least, and not dumping her body into the ocean.

Joyce_23
02-04-2008, 02:10 PM
It's horrible what happened and I'm hoping there is enough evidence provided now to lock this guy up. I don't think it's right though to insinuate that this was murder. The girl should have taken responsebility as well, she was drunk and stoned as hell, and probably killed herself. Don't get me wrong, ofcourse they should have called for help at least, and not dumping her body into the ocean.

Those were my thoughts exactly. Lock this guy up since he was stupid and a selfish jerk but she had a responsibility to look after herself. She did a lousy job at that and unfortunately she ended up in the hands of a bastard. Still, prison or no prison...Joran's life is wrecked. Now that is something I won't lose sleep over.

Black Adam
02-04-2008, 02:58 PM
How does one die whilst making out??

rocketassist
02-04-2008, 04:22 PM
He probably had sex with her, and then when she screamed, he suffocated her.

What a ****oid. Perhaps they will find her body so her parents can lay her to rest in peace.

Sunset of Age
02-04-2008, 05:48 PM
This will be a very interesting case for criminal law-lawyers everywhere.
It's pretty obvious that Mr. Van Der Sloot is a complete moron, most possibly even an individual suffering from the so-called 'compulsive lying'-syndrome, if not a complete sociopath/antisocial person. But that's for the forensic psychiatrists to decide...

However, much as I hope to see this guy being put behind bars for a very long time, there are quite a lot of troubles for the prosecution, here. For instance, can one use secretly/hiddenly acquired confession tapes as a means of evidence? Generally spoken, NOT. However, I know the European Human Rights Treatment-judges have made exceptions on this general rule and I wonder if it'll be possible to make such an exception over here. But otherwise, I see a very difficult job coming up for the prosecution, should this evidence be ommited from the procedure... which could well happen.

Another thing is: well, what has actually happened? Without Natalee's body being found, all one can charge VDS off is: 1) not getting help to a human being obviously in great danger of losing her life, and 2) dismissing of the body. That, of course, is as bad as it is already, and should get VDS behind bars for a maximum of six months according to Antillian law (which is not that different from the Dutch criminal law).

But it would be a real shame if he'd only get put away for six months if he could as well have ***** Natalee, if not right-out killed her. There's no evidence of that whatsoever right now. I hope her body will be found, so the pathologists might find out whether her death was indeed a bad accident, or that there was more to it...

Anyways, a DREADFUL story, but at least Natalee's family and friends now know a bit of what happened... a very sad and little consolation I daresay.

Of course I'm going to follow the juridicial consequences very closely.

savesthedizzle
02-05-2008, 03:30 AM
Wow I've been watching a show on all these recent developments for the last hour and it's so incredible how nonchalant he is about everything and how he makes himself the victim in all this :rolleyes: How in the one tape he said he could almost cry, because how could it be, that all this was happening... TO HIM. :tape: It's just incredible.

mangoes
02-05-2008, 04:31 AM
How does one die whilst making out??

Alcohol Poisoning. She had too much to drink.

Wow I've been watching a show on all these recent developments for the last hour and it's so incredible how nonchalant he is about everything and how he makes himself the victim in all this :rolleyes: How in the one tape he said he could almost cry, because how could it be, that all this was happening... TO HIM. :tape: It's just incredible.

What I don't understand is why he didn't try and get her help. He wouldn't be in this mess now if he had just tried to get her to the hospital.

On some level, I think he was telling the truth. If she was doing jello shots....etc......then there is a good chance she suffered from alcohol poisoning. But, like I said, it baffles me that he didn't think to try and get her help.... For all he knew, she could have been in an alcohol induced coma. His selfishness got him into this position.

Lee
02-05-2008, 08:20 AM
I don't care whether Natalie was dead or not while they disposed her body, they should all go to jail for a very long time for what they do.

Of course, I'm not a lawyer. :shrug:

the cat
02-05-2008, 02:03 PM
It's horrible what happened and I'm hoping there is enough evidence provided now to lock this guy up. I don't think it's right though to insinuate that this was murder. The girl should have taken responsebility as well, she was drunk and stoned as hell, and probably killed herself. Don't get me wrong, ofcourse they should have called for help at least, and not dumping her body into the ocean.
There is every right to insinuate Natalee Hollaway was murdered. Just as there is every right to think that she died or was unconscious from a drug overdose. Natalee could have been alive but in a coma when she was dumped in to ocean but there is no way to know for sure because those invloved with her disappearance and disposal of her body who are still alive have told so many lies that it's hard to keep track of what they said and what the truth really is. And it's a sickening tragedy that those guys who were with Natalee when she was unconscious cared so little about another human being that they had her thrown into the ocean like she was garbage. :sad: I think 99.9% of people in the world who thought another person in their presence was dead or unconscious would call 911 for help. But not Joran van der Sloot and his friends. :rolleyes: And I don't care if they were all high or drunk. If you think someone you are with might have died you call 911 unless you have something to hide.

And I hope the truth about this sad case is finally coming out. My theory is that Van der Sloot gave Natalee the date **** drug and she had convulsions and then appeared to have died when she may have just been comatose and he panicked thinking Hollaway was dead and thinking he was responsible for that and chose to get rid of her body. Otherwise why not just call 911and say this girl is not reponding and needs medical help? I think he was trying to cover up his own actions in her death or what he presumed to be her death. And that was big mistake that is finally coming back to haunt him and those others who participated in dumping Natalee's body in the ocean.

the cat
02-05-2008, 05:42 PM
I don't care whether Natalie was dead or not while they disposed her body, they should all go to jail for a very long time for what they do.

Of course, I'm not a lawyer. :shrug:
Well said.

buddyholly
02-06-2008, 03:35 AM
Back when this thread was started, I got called names by most posters because ''if it wasn't some rich, blonde, American girl, nobody would care about her.''

I cared back then because I knew the one who was rich and had special treatment was the disgusting Van der Sloot. Probably he will still get off, but at least we won't have the fools calling for the authorities to lay off the nice young innocent boy.
You can check them out at the beginning of the thread (alfonsojose, GWH etc. )They probably won't come back.

buddyholly
02-06-2008, 03:37 AM
Wasn't this case closed?

No, he was held and questioned. This has nothing to do with closing a case.

HybridTheory
02-06-2008, 11:07 AM
There is every right to insinuate Natalee Hollaway was murdered. Just as there is every right to think that she died or was unconscious from a drug overdose. Natalee could have been alive but in a coma when she was dumped in to ocean but there is no way to know for sure because those invloved with her disappearance and disposal of her body who are still alive have told so many lies that it's hard to keep track of what they said and what the truth really is. And it's a sickening tragedy that those guys who were with Natalee when she was unconscious cared so little about another human being that they had her thrown into the ocean like she was garbage. :sad: I think 99.9% of people in the world who thought another person in their presence was dead or unconscious would call 911 for help. But not Joran van der Sloot and his friends. :rolleyes: And I don't care if they were all high or drunk. If you think someone you are with might have died you call 911 unless you have something to hide.

And I hope the truth about this sad case is finally coming out. My theory is that Van der Sloot gave Natalee the date **** drug and she had convulsions and then appeared to have died when she may have just been comatose and he panicked thinking Hollaway was dead and thinking he was responsible for that and chose to get rid of her body. Otherwise why not just call 911and say this girl is not reponding and needs medical help? I think he was trying to cover up his own actions in her death or what he presumed to be her death. And that was big mistake that is finally coming back to haunt him and those others who participated in dumping Natalee's body in the ocean.

Ofcourse it wasn't right not to call for help and having the body thrown in the ocean. All I was trying to say is that in this whole story, whenever you see something about it on television, in this show last weekend, they never mentioned Hollaway's own responsibility. According to van der Sloot's story her friends tried to stop her, they told her not to go with those guys on her own, but she didn't listen. That doesn't make van der Sloot or/and his friends any less guilty if the story, or even a part of the story, he told is the truth. What I'm saying is that, no matter how horrible it is and how much disturbed van der Sloot is, the girl should have taken responsibility, non of this wouldn't have happened anyway.

the cat
02-06-2008, 04:34 PM
Ofcourse it wasn't right not to call for help and having the body thrown in the ocean. All I was trying to say is that in this whole story, whenever you see something about it on television, in this show last weekend, they never mentioned Hollaway's own responsibility. According to van der Sloot's story her friends tried to stop her, they told her not to go with those guys on her own, but she didn't listen. That doesn't make van der Sloot or/and his friends any less guilty if the story, or even a part of the story, he told is the truth. What I'm saying is that, no matter how horrible it is and how much disturbed van der Sloot is, the girl should have taken responsibility, non of this wouldn't have happened anyway.
HT, you nake an interesting point about how the media has pretty much ignored Natalee's own responsibility in all of this. That's a fair point. But at this point in the story that's a minor issue as far as I'm concerned. I think Natalee's decisions to down shots of alcohol and to apparently want be leave her friends to be alone with Joran van der Sloot were terrible decisions. But I'm past that now and just want to find out what really happened to her. We still don't know if van der Sloot gave Natalee the date **** drug or something else that could have been identified in an autopsy and toxicology report. Is that why van der Sloot chose to have her dead or comatose body dumped into the ocean? It could be. And van der Sloot's cruel decision to have Holloway's body discarded denied her family and friends a proper and humane goodbye and funeral for her. I think van der Sloot's actions and decision making were of someone guilty with something to hide.

If van der Sloot really didn't do anything to hurt Natalee and had just told the truth from the beginning he wouldn't be in this mess now. Unless he drugged her and accidentally killed her which I think are distinct possibilities. Otherwise why would he have her body dumped into the ocean?

And all the terrible publicity for the island of Aruba has hurt Aruba so much and that's a shame even though the auhtorities haven't handled the case well from day one. It's a sad story that is still unsolved nearly 3 years later. :sad: The only satisfaction I get from the story is to know that Joran van der Sloot's life is difficult now and that milions of people around the world recognize him someone who at the very least played a role in the death of Natalee, chose not to report what he thought was her death to the authorities and heinously had her body dumped in the ocean knowing it would never been seen again or tested for drugs. That has to be a crime in itself. But knowing van der Sloot has ruined his family name and is suffering with all the media coverage making him look bad is not enough for me and I still want to know the truth about what really happened.

buddyholly
02-08-2008, 11:32 AM
He's a sociopath. Why would he help her? In his warped mind he did nothing wrong and she got what she deserved.

My thoughts too. I remember back at the beginning someone on TV saying that even if they can't get enough evidence to prosecute, these type of people eventually talk, they can't resist the temptation to share what they did.
The wine throwing on TV also shows how Van der Sloot considers himself immune from punishment. Of course, his Dad has probably reinforced this feeling of being above the law of common people.

the cat
02-08-2008, 12:31 PM
My thoughts too. I remember back at the beginning someone on TV saying that even if they can't get enough evidence to prosecute, these type of people eventually talk, they can't resist the temptation to share what they did.
The wine throwing on TV also shows how Van der Sloot considers himself immune from punishment. Of course, his Dad has probably reinforced this feeling of being above the law of common people.
I couldn't have said it better myself.

I think the most damaging thing Joran van der Sloot said on the video tape was and I'm paraphrasing that if her (Natalee Holloway's) body was ever found he would be in alot of trouble. And I think that's why he had Holloway's body dumped into the ocean and he admitted to ordering that on video tape. If van der Sloot was so worried about Natalee's body being found and he was and is then I think that means he did something terrible to her such as giving her the **** drug or possibly breaking her neck during rough sex which is possible since Natalee was a petite girl and van der Sloot is a big guy. Maybe he's like Mike Tyson and enjoys hurting women during sex. Why else would he be worried about her body being found unless he did something awful to her? It will be hard for van der Sloot to talk his way out of saying on video tape that if they ever find Natalee's body he's in deep trouble. He might never go to jail for any of this but he has pretty much admitted to serious guilt where Natalee's body is concerned. But I can't count on Dutch or Aruban authorities being able to convict van der Sloot of anything other than lying alot so I'm not counting on his going to jail or even facing a trial.

dkw
02-08-2008, 03:17 PM
ha! I was just coming in here to bump this thread up.

What can I say - I thought either this guy was innocent or pretty sick in the head to calmly lie for months/years.

I guess it turns out he is pretty sick in the head.

If this Duray guy wasn't on the island and didn't dump the body who did - his father possibly? Jesus they all seem like such deceptively calm people.

And why dump the body if you have nothing to hide??

buddyholly
02-10-2008, 02:21 PM
I think the most damaging thing Joran van der Sloot said on the video tape was and I'm paraphrasing that if her (Natalee Holloway's) body was ever found he would be in alot of trouble.

Natalee's mother said something on TV about Joran having mentioned something inside Natalee's body, but that she found it too disturbing to even discuss it. Know what that means, other than the obvious semen? That would not seem unmentionable to me, so is there something else suggested?

Slasher
02-10-2008, 03:08 PM
This has probably been posted before in this thread but I want to rant too.

Boring superficial journalism is what this is. The same news outlets that lacked balls to criticize the Bush administration over Iraq (for fear of being dubbed unpatriotic and lose precious readers en viewers) are fixating on murder cases like these. But only if the murder victim was purty and can sell newspapers/attract viewers. Happens when news media cater to Nielsen-rating figures. What a joke.

Thank you and carry on with your shallow interest in this oh so fascinating (not) case. It's not like people get murdered all the time in America.

the cat
02-10-2008, 03:54 PM
Natalee's mother said something on TV about Joran having mentioned something inside Natalee's body, but that she found it too disturbing to even discuss it. Know what that means, other than the obvious semen? That would not seem unmentionable to me, so is there something else suggested?
I'm not sure. But it's obvious Joran van der Sloot had Natalee's body disposed of because he feared what would happen to him if an autopsy and toxicology report were done on her. Because of Aruban incompetency in the handling of the holloway case I don't have much hope of there ever being an Aruban trial for van der Sloot for Natalee's death. But at the very least there should be a trial for van der Sloot on his video tape admitted role in disposing of a human body which I think would be a serious crime in any country and deserving of a trial.

And I don't buy van der Sloot's excuse that he was high on pot when he spoke for mnay hours on the video tape about Natalee and his having her body disposed of. He is known to smoke pot every day so that's not a big deal to him. And the way van der Sloot coherently spoke on the video tape and gave detailed answers proves that he was focused and understood the questions asked of him concerning Natalee.

tennischick
02-10-2008, 08:20 PM
My thoughts too. I remember back at the beginning someone on TV saying that even if they can't get enough evidence to prosecute, these type of people eventually talk, they can't resist the temptation to share what they did.
The wine throwing on TV also shows how Van der Sloot considers himself immune from punishment. Of course, his Dad has probably reinforced this feeling of being above the law of common people.

i've met a lot of people from the Caribbean who speak about Natalie's death the way this guy did. everyone believes that she became shark bait. if any of them were tape-recorded, they would all sound guilty.

buddyholly
02-11-2008, 12:33 PM
i've met a lot of people from the Caribbean who speak about Natalie's death the way this guy did. everyone believes that she became shark bait. if any of them were tape-recorded, they would all sound guilty.

You are not making any sense at all.
How many of your friends boasted about having personally arranged the dumping of Natalee's body?

buddyholly
02-11-2008, 12:41 PM
Thank you and carry on with your shallow interest in this oh so fascinating (not) case. It's not like people get murdered all the time in America.

You are so right. We should be concentrating on the serious issues, like compiling lists of tennis players we don't like, in the pathetic belief that others may be interested.
Or explaining to a spellbound audience what a prick Schumacher is.
There, I have summed up your entire history on MTF.

Slasher
02-11-2008, 01:31 PM
You are so right. We should be concentrating on the serious issues, like compiling lists of tennis players we don\\\'t like, in the pathetic belief that others may be interested.
Or explaining to a spellbound audience what a prick Schumacher is.
There, I have summed up your entire history on MTF.

Fact remains, the media and its sheep readers (you for instance) would have given fuckall about Nathalee were she black, an unattractive white girl or, even worse, Canadian.

But yes, you are absolutely right. Posting on a message board is exactly the same as following news items. And I have not had the time to submit an history of inane posts like you have unfortunately. But maybe one day I will be as pathetic as you are today. Fingers crossed.

the cat
02-11-2008, 03:46 PM
i've met a lot of people from the Caribbean who speak about Natalie's death the way this guy did. everyone believes that she became shark bait. if any of them were tape-recorded, they would all sound guilty.
TC, it's rare for me to see you posting at MTF these days. And it's sad that you say Caribbean people say Natalee was shark bait. :( I wish I could say I am surprised by that attitude. But I'm not. But the Caribbean people you speak of weren't present when Natalle died, Joran van der Sloot has admitted to being there when Holloway died and has also admitted on videotape to having Natalee's body disposed of for fear that if her body was found he would have been in alot of trouble. And it was Joran van der Sloot treating Natalee like shark bait and having no regard for her life that has ruined the Holloway family forever, has devasted the island of Aruba and has tarnished the van der Sloot name. You reap what you sow and it looks like Joran van der Sloot is finally getting what he has sowed.

Black Adam
02-11-2008, 04:07 PM
Why would you bait a shark for? Swallowed diamonds?

buddyholly
02-12-2008, 03:36 AM
Fact remains, the media and its sheep readers (you for instance) would have given fuckall about Nathalee were she black, an unattractive white girl or, even worse, Canadian.


So you don't read newspapers? Where do you get your news? Comic books, maybe?
Like a lot of other posters you seem to be hung up on the fact that Natalee was white, blonde and pretty and seem to think that she deserved what happened because of three features she was born with. I can only assume there is resentment of someone who maybe got a better deal of the cards in life? Someone you feel was given an unfair advantage over you.
And anyway, what has the selective reporting of newspapers got to do with her disappearance? She had nothing to do with the press. You have not yet shown any evidence that the press is lying. Only that you don't think pretty white girls should get reported on.
And while you and a few others go on and on about why nobody should care about what happened to Natalee, what I really care about is what has not happened to Van der Sloot - a rich, white, good-looking boy with a very influential father in a small community. If you are going to resent people with unfair advantages over you, why not Joran? If you had been the one to take Natalee to a beach and then repeatedly lied to police about what happened, you would probably have been convicted by now.

the cat
02-12-2008, 03:47 PM
So you don't read newspapers? Where do you get your news? Comic books, maybe?
Like a lot of other posters you seem to be hung up on the fact that Natalee was white, blonde and pretty and seem to think that she deserved what happened because of three features she was born with. I can only assume there is resentment of someone who maybe got a better deal of the cards in life? Someone you feel was given an unfair advantage over you.
And anyway, what has the selective reporting of newspapers got to do with her disappearance? She had nothing to do with the press. You have not yet shown any evidence that the press is lying. Only that you don't think pretty white girls should get reported on.
And while you and a few others go on and on about why nobody should care about what happened to Natalee, what I really care about is what has not happened to Van der Sloot - a rich, white, good-looking boy with a very influential father in a small community. If you are going to resent people with unfair advantages over you, why not Joran? If you had been the one to take Natalee to a beach and then repeatedly lied to police about what happened, you would probably have been convicted by now.

No one has benefited more from being a wealthy white guy with an influential father than Joran van der Sloot. His arrogance and thinking he's above the law has lead to alot of his problems and I think is part of the reason why van der Sloot constantly looked to nail and conquer attractive girls visiting Aruba such as Natalee Holloway.

dkw
02-12-2008, 03:51 PM
I think its a lose/lose situation - If Natalee wasn't a pretty blond white girl, lost on a exotic island blah, blah, blah, the media wouldn't have gotten involved and the whole case may have gotten swept under the rug.

On the other hand they (the media) did get involved but the whole thing has turned into such a tabloid circus. Even if the Aruban police was Scotland Yards, I doubt any police team can carry on a credible investigation with Geraldo and Greta popping up from the bushes every five seconds not to mention the family leading their own investigation. This has to have an impact on witnesses. Then there were the people who made up stories to get on TV which led the investigation off course.

The whole thing is an unqualified disaster!

Slasher
02-12-2008, 08:53 PM
So you don't read newspapers? Where do you get your news? Comic books, maybe?

You dishing Superman?

Like a lot of other posters you seem to be hung up on the fact that Natalee was white, blonde and pretty and seem to think that she deserved what happened because of three features she was born with. I can only assume there is resentment of someone who maybe got a better deal of the cards in life? Someone you feel was given an unfair advantage over you.
And anyway, what has the selective reporting of newspapers got to do with her disappearance? She had nothing to do with the press. You have not yet shown any evidence that the press is lying. Only that you don't think pretty white girls should get reported on.

Your post is so dumb it hurts. No wonder you are so engaged in this real life soap.

And while you and a few others go on and on about why nobody should care about what happened to Natalee, what I really care about is what has not happened to Van der Sloot - a rich, white, good-looking boy with a very influential father in a small community. If you are going to resent people with unfair advantages over you, why not Joran? If you had been the one to take Natalee to a beach and then repeatedly lied to police about what happened, you would probably have been convicted by now.

No I wouldn't. I don't do blonds.

alfonsojose
02-13-2008, 12:50 AM
is this mess still going on?
:zzz: drunk teenage girl alone in a foreign country + nasty horny male teens + protecting parents + place where tourism is the rain maker + sea all around = disaster.

mangoes
02-13-2008, 01:48 AM
TC, it's rare for me to see you posting at MTF these days. And it's sad that you say Caribbean people say Natalee was shark bait. :( I wish I could say I am surprised by that attitude. .

What attitude?? Oh Please......... I grew up in the Caribbean and I thought from day one she was dumped in the sea. So did every other caribbean person I know. Does that mean we were not disgusted by that idiot's actions. No. All of those people, including myself, thought the kid had something to do with her disappearance. It's just that Caribbean people know that when a person disappears from an island without trace, it's likely that he became "shark bait". Caribbean people were expressing an opinion of Natalie's whereabouts.

And if you're so silly as to think Caribbean people didn't care about this situation, you are sadly mistaken. It angered a lot of people that something so horrible happened on a Caribbean island. Not to mention, many were embarassed at the picture, people like you, formed of the islands and it's inhabitants.

mangoes
02-13-2008, 01:52 AM
He's a sociopath. Why would he help her? In his warped mind he did nothing wrong and she got what she deserved.

Yep. He is sick in the head.

buddyholly
02-13-2008, 02:22 AM
What attitude?? Oh Please......... I grew up in the Caribbean and I thought from day one she was dumped in the sea. So did every other caribbean person I know. Does that mean we were not disgusted by that idiot's actions. No. All of those people, including myself, thought the kid had something to do with her disappearance. It's just that Caribbean people know that when a person disappears from an island without trace, it's likely that he became "shark bait". Caribbean people were expressing an opinion of Natalie's whereabouts.

And if you're so silly as to think Caribbean people didn't care about this situation, you are sadly mistaken. It angered a lot of people that something so horrible happened on a Caribbean island. Not to mention, many were embarassed at the picture, people like you, formed of the islands and it's inhabitants.

I think you and some others missed the point about the whole ''shark bait'' thing. tennis chick said that many people throughout the Caribbean concluded that Natalee was shark bait, not just Joran. It gets confusing but she seems to have missed the important difference that Joran said he was the one who turned her into shark bait, which is very different from what other people said.

buddyholly
02-13-2008, 02:23 AM
is this mess still going on?
:zzz: drunk teenage girl alone in a foreign country + nasty horny male teens + protecting parents + place where tourism is the rain maker + sea all around = disaster.

I grew up reading Agatha Christie. Why wouldn't I find this case fascinating? I wish Poirot would show up.

buddyholly
02-13-2008, 02:28 AM
I think its a lose/lose situation - If Natalee wasn't a pretty blond white girl, lost on a exotic island blah, blah, blah, the media wouldn't have gotten involved and the whole case may have gotten swept under the rug.

On the other hand they (the media) did get involved but the whole thing has turned into such a tabloid circus. Even if the Aruban police was Scotland Yards, I doubt any police team can carry on a credible investigation with Geraldo and Greta popping up from the bushes every five seconds not to mention the family leading their own investigation. This has to have an impact on witnesses. Then there were the people who made up stories to get on TV which led the investigation off course.

The whole thing is an unqualified disaster!

I agree with that. But I think that once they started changing the story every 5 minutes, any competent police force would have taken Joran and the two brothers into custody and kept them apart until they were falling over themselves to get the story straight.

mangoes
02-13-2008, 03:09 PM
I think you and some others missed the point about the whole ''shark bait'' thing. tennis chick said that many people throughout the Caribbean concluded that Natalee was shark bait, not just Joran. It gets confusing but she seems to have missed the important difference that Joran said he was the one who turned her into shark bait, which is very different from what other people said.

I understood that point. My response was to "The Cat" who didn't seem to understand the difference. From the beginning, when she couldn't be found, I assumed she had been dumped in the sea. It wasn't an attitude, it was an opinion.........something I think The Cat doesn't understand. Nevertheless, that didn't lessen my disgust or shock over the crime committed by Joran. In fact, I hope they find a way to nail his arse for this crime. The response I'd expect from an 18 year old, anywhere in the world, found in this situation is to get help for the girl. It baffles me that his reaction was to dump her body. He is one sick, sick person.

dkw
02-13-2008, 04:11 PM
I agree with that. But I think that once they started changing the story every 5 minutes, any competent police force would have taken Joran and the two brothers into custody and kept them apart until they were falling over themselves to get the story straight.

Who says this didn't happen. My memory may be getting faulty (it's been over 2 years) but my recollection is the only time they were all together was the day Natalee was discovered missing. At some point that day, before the police narrowed in on them as the last people with her, the three boys along with Joran father sat by the pool and solidified a "story".

Again my memory may be faulty but I recall reports of the police putting the brothers one at a time in a cell with Joran to spy on what they were saying to each other.

the cat
02-16-2008, 03:23 PM
It turns out Joran van der Sloot won't be re-arrested by the Aruban authorities even though he confessed on video tape that he had Natalee's seemingly dead body thrown into the ocean because he said he would be in deep trouble if her body was ever found. That sounds like a confession to me. And undoubtedly tens of millions of people around the world have seen van der Sloot's video taped confession recently. But Aruba won't re-arrest him because according to what I saw on the news last night it's supposedly not againt the law to dispose of another human being's seemingly dead body. :scratch: Who knows maybe human body dumping will become a sport Aruba. :shrug:

I have to laugh at the so called experts such as Peter DeVries and others who said van der Sloot would stand trial for planning the disposal of Natalee Holloway's body because he confesed to it on video tape. I knew it would never happen because the fix was in since day one of the investigation in Aruba. The investigation has been about as legitimate as professional wrestling. :rolleyes:

I do take some solace in knowing Joran van der Sloot's video taped confession planning the dumping of Natalee's body into the ocean was viewed on video tape by the world and that he has tarnished the van der Sloot name and that Joran will be seen in an unfavourable light by many people in the worldwode public in the future. You reap what you sow in life and hopefully van der Sloot will get his just reward someday.

As far as Natalee's family goes I wish them the best. I also wish the Holloway family would file a civil law suit against Joran van der Sloot for his video taped admission to having Natalee's body disposed of and unimaginably depriving the Holloway's of giving Natalee a proper funeral. Maybe the Holloway's could win a civil law suit against van der Sloot the way the Goldman's did against O.J. Simpson. But it's probably just wishful thinking on my part.

Even though the Aruban authorities botched the Natalee Holloway case from the beginning I wish good things for Aruba in the future because none of this was the public's fault and from what I hear business and travel to Aruba is down. If only Joran van der Sloot was honest from the beginning the decent people of Aruba would have been spared nearly 3 years of subsequent and non ending bad publicity that has hurt Aruba's reputation and image.

buddyholly
02-16-2008, 04:00 PM
I do take some solace in knowing Joran van der Sloot's video taped confession planning the dumping of Natalee's body into the ocean was viewed on video tape by the world and that he has tarnished the van der Sloot name and that Joran will be seen in an unfavourable light by many people in the worldwode public in the future. You reap what you sow in life and hopefully van der Sloot will get his just reward someday.



OJ is doing OK playing golf in Florida. There are enough sad idiots around that will get their kicks just by hanging out with Joran. Not sure how many of them will be female though.

And I think he did lie on the tapes. I suspect his Dad disposed of the body and that was why he slept like a baby. Knowing that his Dad was going to make it all right.

buddyholly
02-16-2008, 04:02 PM
Who says this didn't happen. My memory may be getting faulty (it's been over 2 years) but my recollection is the only time they were all together was the day Natalee was discovered missing. At some point that day, before the police narrowed in on them as the last people with her, the three boys along with Joran father sat by the pool and solidified a "story".


Then they did not do a very good job on the story, because they kept changing it.

anon57
02-16-2008, 04:58 PM
It turns out Joran van der Sloot won't be re-arrested by the Aruban authorities even though he confessed on video tape that he had Natalee's seemingly dead body thrown into the ocean because he said he would be in deep trouble if her body was ever found. That sounds like a confession to me. And undoubtedly tens of millions of people around the world have seen van der Sloot's video taped confession recently. But Aruba won't re-arrest him because according to what I saw on the news last night it's supposedly not againt the law to dispose of another human being's seemingly dead body. :scratch: Who knows maybe human body dumping will become a sport Aruba. :shrug:

I have to laugh at the so called experts such as Peter DeVries and others who said van der Sloot would stand trial for planning the disposal of Natalee Holloway's body because he confesed to it on video tape. I knew it would never happen because the fix was in since day one of the investigation in Aruba. The investigation has been about as legitimate as professional wrestling. :rolleyes:

I do take some solace in knowing Joran van der Sloot's video taped confession planning the dumping of Natalee's body into the ocean was viewed on video tape by the world and that he has tarnished the van der Sloot name and that Joran will be seen in an unfavourable light by many people in the worldwode public in the future. You reap what you sow in life and hopefully van der Sloot will get his just reward someday.

As far as Natalee's family goes I wish them the best. I also wish the Holloway family would file a civil law suit against Joran van der Sloot for his video taped admission to having Natalee's body disposed of and unimaginably depriving the Holloway's of giving Natalee a proper funeral. Maybe the Holloway's could win a civil law suit against van der Sloot the way the Goldman's did against O.J. Simpson. But it's probably just wishful thinking on my part.

Even though the Aruban authorities botched the Natalee Holloway case from the beginning I wish good things for Aruba in the future because none of this was the public's fault and from what I hear business and travel to Aruba is down. If only Joran van der Sloot was honest from the beginning the decent people of Aruba would have been spared nearly 3 years of subsequent and non ending bad publicity that has hurt Aruba's reputation and image.

From what I understood from Dutch media, the reason that Joran isn't being arrested isn't that disposing of a dead body isn't considered a crime on Aruba but the fact that there is no evidence to back-up Joran's videotaped statements. After the vidoes were aired Joran was questioned by police in the Netherlands and has said that the statements on the tape were lies, he's been telling so many lies he probably has a hard time keeping track of the thruth. So unless some evidence is found which can prove that Joran was involved which imo he is, unfortunately he can't be arrested or tried for a crime. Also the media here is reporting that Beth Twitty (Nathalee's mom) is talking to a lawyer about starting a civil suit against van der Sloot. I really hope that van der Sloot will pay for his crimes but atm there isn't any evidence against him.

the cat
02-18-2008, 03:56 PM
OJ is doing OK playing golf in Florida. There are enough sad idiots around that will get their kicks just by hanging out with Joran. Not sure how many of them will be female though.

And I think he did lie on the tapes. I suspect his Dad disposed of the body and that was why he slept like a baby. Knowing that his Dad was going to make it all right.

O.J. Simpson was living the good life but not anymore. He's in deep trouble now and faces many years in prison for his Las Vegas robbery attempt. And I would hope that girls would stay away from Joran van der Sloot but that probably won't be the case. But the weird chicks will likely be attracted to his money and fame and the attention they would garner being seen with him. :spit:

anon, thanks for the information. It's just dumbfounding to me that disposing of a human being's dead body isn't a crime in Aruba. :scratch: Needless to say that needs to be changed. And for all we know Natalee may not have even been dead when she was disposed of. Joran believes she was dead but he's not a doctor and wouldn't know for sure. And while there isn't any physical evidence of van der Sloot ordering Natalee Holloway's body thrown into the ocean there is video tape evidence of him admitting to it while he was coherent and eager to answer the questions about Natalee. Countless millions of people have seem his video taped confession and people all over the world are often convicted and sent to jail for what they say on videotape or audiotape. And as far as Holloway's family is concerned I think van der Sloot's video taped confession of admitting to and why he had Natalee's body disposed of would come in handy in a civil suit against him.

dkw
02-19-2008, 08:28 PM
It turns out Joran van der Sloot won't be re-arrested by the Aruban authorities even though he confessed on video tape that he had Natalee's seemingly dead body thrown into the ocean because he said he would be in deep trouble if her body was ever found. That sounds like a confession to me. And undoubtedly tens of millions of people around the world have seen van der Sloot's video taped confession recently. But Aruba won't re-arrest him because according to what I saw on the news last night it's supposedly not againt the law to dispose of another human being's seemingly dead body. :scratch: Who knows maybe human body dumping will become a sport Aruba. :shrug:

I don't think you're being completly fair to the Aruban authorities here - again they're no Scotland Yards but you have to admit there is a diffiernce between a confession obtained by the police (either at the police station or via some type of controlled sting operation) and one made for tabliod TV by a journalist (as well meaning as he may be) who has a monetary/fame stake in the outcome.

The only useful purpose Joran confession (obtained the way it was obtained) can serve is to provide further leads. Namely they need to find this boat and the mysterious boat driver.

the cat
02-20-2008, 09:10 PM
I don't think you're being completly fair to the Aruban authorities here - again they're no Scotland Yards but you have to admit there is a diffiernce between a confession obtained by the police (either at the police station or via some type of controlled sting operation) and one made for tabliod TV by a journalist (as well meaning as he may be) who has a monetary/fame stake in the outcome.

The only useful purpose Joran confession (obtained the way it was obtained) can serve is to provide further leads. Namely they need to find this boat and the mysterious boat driver.

I may not be completely fair to the Aruban authorities, But I still think the Aruban authorities should have done a better job than they did at the beginning of the Natalee Holloway investigation in May of 2005. I don't think this case will ever be resovled unless someone with integrity and a gulty conscience comes forward to tell the truth about what really happened to Natalee and why her body was disposed of when 911 obviously should have been called. Unfortunately Natalee spent her fateful last night alive with people without integrity who wanted to cover up for themselves instead of trying to help a girl in deep trouble.

As far as van der Sloot's video tape confession about him planning Holloway's body being disposed of goes I hope the Dutch and Aruban authorites are working any possible leads they got from what he said on the tape. But I don't hold out much hope of anything being discovered at this point and time.

buddyholly
02-20-2008, 11:28 PM
I may not be completely fair to the Aruban authorities, But I still think the Aruban authorities should have done a better job than they did at the beginning of the Natalee Holloway investigation in May of 2005.

I wouldn't worry about being unfair. There is so much that does not appear to be covered. For example, telephone records. There must have been a lot of calls that night. What happened to the records?

the cat
02-21-2008, 04:06 PM
I wouldn't worry about being unfair. There is so much that does not appear to be covered. For example, telephone records. There must have been a lot of calls that night. What happened to the records?

That's a good question. There is probably alot of vital information in the phone calls between Joran van der Sloot, his father and others involved in the cover up of Natalee Holloway's death and her body being disposed of for fear of what her body had in it.

tennischick
03-02-2008, 08:00 PM
it's so easy for Americans to pass judgment on what a small island with a small island's resources should and should not have done. you can't judge this situation by American standards. by American standards, none of the members of Natalie's group would have been allowed to return to the US without first being questioned in depth by officials. but guess what, they all left without being questioned. everyone assumed that no-one in her party was in any way involved, that the culprits had to be the two Black guys who were initially arrested. i guess some American influence was retained after all. :rolleyes: the shark bait reference is standard Caribbean slang. the certainty with which it is said is also typically Caribbean. i wish you guys could get that. this does not make it an admission of guilt. was it a tasteless comment? perhaps, but only because it got tape-recorded and distributed. was it an admission of guilt? not by a long stretch. it only seems that way when removed from its colloquial cultural context.

buddyholly
03-04-2008, 02:00 PM
it's so easy for Americans to pass judgment on what a small island with a small island's resources should and should not have done. you can't judge this situation by American standards. by American standards, none of the members of Natalie's group would have been allowed to return to the US without first being questioned in depth by officials. but guess what, they all left without being questioned. everyone assumed that no-one in her party was in any way involved, that the culprits had to be the two Black guys who were initially arrested. i guess some American influence was retained after all. :rolleyes: the shark bait reference is standard Caribbean slang. the certainty with which it is said is also typically Caribbean. i wish you guys could get that. this does not make it an admission of guilt. was it a tasteless comment? perhaps, but only because it got tape-recorded and distributed. was it an admission of guilt? not by a long stretch. it only seems that way when removed from its colloquial cultural context.

Sounds like you are blaming America for everything. Why did Natalee's group return to the US without being questioned? Because that would be the American way, but Aruba is not America? No, because the Aruban authorities are incompetent.
''Everyone assumed two black guys were involved'' and that for you indicates racism, just like in the US. I can't remember the details, but I think the two black guys became involved because Joran or the brothers lied to police and said they saw Natalee talk to them when she returned to the hotel. And they were released pretty quickly once it became clear that Joran and the brothers were liars.

And you are still confusing yourself over the ''shark bait'' reference. When anyone in the Caribbean uses it, it is just slang talk, but when the chief suspect and probably the last person to see her alive uses it, then the police should pay attention.

buddyholly
06-02-2010, 09:08 PM
van der Sloot is wanted in Peru on suspicion of murdering a Peruvian girl.

So, to all those people in this thread who couldn't understand all the fuss over some blonde US girl disappearing - WHAT DO YOU SAY NOW?

rocketassist
06-02-2010, 09:23 PM
Quit it with your silly American asslicking propaganda. Of course this is a sad story, so why are you trying to make it look like its anti-US?

buddyholly
06-02-2010, 09:49 PM
Quit it with your silly American asslicking propaganda. Of course this is a sad story, so why are you trying to make it look like its anti-US?

Not sure what is supposed to be anti-US - the story, as your grammar indicates? That does not make sense.

Try reading through the thread and you will see that I did not make it look like anything. Other posters took care of that spin.

And I would not call it a sad story. It seems it could be more properly called a horror story of corruption, influence and a second death that could have been prevented.

buddyholly
06-02-2010, 10:19 PM
:mad: again, what if Holloway had been an hispanic, fat teenager :rolleyes:


Time to find out.

buddyholly
06-03-2010, 01:39 AM
I didn't even know that he was caught on tape in Thailand trying to send Thai women into the sex slave business. It's on youtube.

No wonder his father died of a heart attack in February (playing tennis).

smitty8
06-03-2010, 03:14 AM
Nancy Grace is having a grand old time tonight on CNN with this news. I hope they catch this scumbag soon.

smitty8
06-03-2010, 03:46 AM
Wow, is it really 5 years to the day that Natalie went missing?

*according to this article, they think this girl from Peru was killed 5 years to the day Natalee went missing. Wow!
http://abcnews.go.com/International/TheLaw/joran-van-der-sloot-prime-suspect-natalee-holloway/story?id=10807407

smitty8
06-03-2010, 07:30 PM
They got him in Chile. This should be interesting.

buddyholly
06-03-2010, 07:54 PM
The girl's father is big in Peru and even ran for president. Joran is about to find out what a protective daddy can really do. Although it might depend on whether the Peruvian authorities protect him from the prison population or not.

buddyholly
06-04-2010, 01:24 AM
Joran is now wanted in the US on extortion charges. He is charged with trying to extort $250,000 in exchange for revealing the location of Natalee's body.

The Peruvian girl's brother reports that her entire body was beaten, almost beyond recognition.

And all this is probably only the tip of a very big iceberg.

Purple Rainbow
06-04-2010, 09:57 AM
A pathological liar, disdain for his victims, ruthless business ethics. This guy is probably a psychopath.

I am glad he is caught and I hope he gets a long, long stay in a Peruvian cell.

I wonder though what women see in this man.

buddyholly
06-05-2010, 03:31 AM
Safely back in Peru, never to taste freedom again. The weapon of choice was a baseball bat. He may have just been short of cash.

Sunset of Age
06-05-2010, 03:32 AM
Achetypical sociopathic liar.
Still, it's up to justice to prove.

buddyholly
06-05-2010, 03:36 AM
In Peru there are no juries, just 3 judges. And for a guilty verdict, beyond a reasonable doubt is not necessary, just a preponderance of evidence. I very much doubt that Joran handled the baseball bat with gloves.

cobalt60
06-05-2010, 12:16 PM
Let's hope justice is served this time around.

buddyholly
06-06-2010, 03:33 AM
Safely back in Peru, never to taste freedom again. The weapon of choice was a baseball bat. He may have just been short of cash.

Seems the baseball bat was wrongly reported. It was a tennis racquet. Joran was one of us!

smitty8
06-06-2010, 04:04 AM
The baseball bat seemed more believable, especially if he broke her neck while beating on her.

Henry Chinaski
06-06-2010, 04:12 AM
Seems the baseball bat was wrongly reported. It was a tennis racquet. Joran was one of us!

Did he have a one-hander?

I would like to think his transgresions were at least aesthetically pleasing.

buddyholly
06-06-2010, 01:41 PM
What intrigues me now is figuring out what his MTF username is.

Junkyard Racket
06-08-2010, 07:05 AM
Official: Van der Sloot confesses to Peru slaying
'I did not want to do it,' paper quotes Natalee Holloway suspect as saying

LIMA, Peru - Joran van der Sloot confessed to the slaying of a 21-year-old woman in a Lima hotel room, a high-ranking Peruvian government official told NBC News on Monday.

According to La Republica newspaper, he said that his anger exploded and he broke Stephany Flores' neck after she grabbed his laptop without his permission, and found out that he was involved in the disappearance of an American woman.

The paper quoted Van der Sloot as saying, "I did not want to do it. The girl intruded into my private life."
Story continues below ↓advertisement | your ad here

The Dutchman, who is also the prime suspect in U.S. teen Natalee Holloway's 2005 disappearance in Aruba, is being held in a seventh-floor cell with a bunk bed and blanket and gets three hot meals a day, said Maj. Jose Gamboa, spokesman for the Peruvian national police.

Van der Sloot is suspected in the May 30 killing five years to the day after Holloway's disappearance of Flores, a business student who police say he met playing poker at a casino.

Police released video Saturday taken by security cameras at the hotel where van der Sloot had been staying since arriving from Colombia on May 14. It shows the two entering van der Sloot's room together and the Dutchman leaving alone four hours later.

The woman's battered body was found on the room's floor more than two days later, her neck broken. Van der Sloot had by then crossed into Chile, where he was arrested Thursday.

In video taken of the husky 22-year-old Dutchman that was broadcast Sunday by a TV channel, Peruvian police search van der Sloot's belongings in his presence.

They pull out of his backpack a laptop, a business-card holder and 15 bills in foreign currency. Van der Sloot tells police the money includes Thai, Cambodian and Bolivian currency. He is asked for credit cards and documents and appears to say his Spanish is very rudimentary that they are in a hotel room back in Chile.

Earlier, Peru's chief homicide investigator, Col. Miguel Canlla, would neither confirm nor deny a Sunday report in the Lima newspaper El Comercio that van der Sloot told his Peruvian questioners he was innocent of the Flores killing.

"I don't know where that information came from," Canlla told The Associated Press. "We are still in the investigative stage."

Chilean police said earlier that van der Sloot declared himself innocent in the Lima slaying but acknowledged having met Flores.

Van der Sloot was represented by a state-appointed lawyer during Saturday's questioning.

Until he hires his own counsel, "the guys prosecuting him will decide which attorney he's going to get," van der Sloot's U.S. attorney, Joseph Tacopina, told the AP.

Tacopina said the suspect's family "is trying to find competent counsel."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37542848/ns/world_news-americas/

buddyholly
06-08-2010, 02:05 PM
Oooooh, she intruded into his private life. No wonder he snapped.

tangerine_dream
06-08-2010, 06:50 PM
I've enjoyed watching Nancy Grace (http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/nancy.grace/) rip this guy a new one every day for the past week.

smitty8
06-08-2010, 08:46 PM
I've enjoyed watching Nancy Grace (http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/nancy.grace/) rip this guy a new one every day for the past week.

It's what she lives for.

nevenez
10-16-2010, 02:00 PM
Someone in Aruba is covering for this scumbag. I thought it was to protect his Dad but now that the elder Van der Sloot has passed, it must be something to do with either Joran or the reputation of the Island of Aruba. Either way, it stinks. These people need to put their daughter to rest. If he knows something, he needs to tell it since I feel he's never going to be heard from again in Peru.

buddyholly
10-16-2010, 03:15 PM
Someone in Aruba is covering for this scumbag.

It was simple commonsense from the start that Joran was involved in Holloway's death. It was also simple commonsense that his influential father was able to cover it up for him. But he's dead now, so maybe the truth will stay hidden. I found it curious at the time that so many said that everyone was picking on poor little Aruba for not finding the killer and hardly ever faced the obvious - that poor little Aruba was covering up for the Van der Sloots.

But if you go back to the beginning of this thread you will find a common theme among posters that he is a nice Dutch boy, Holloway was a blonde American girl (as if that makes it no big deal to get murdered on vacation) and everyone should leave Joran alone to go about his life and stop worrying about a silly American blonde (eg Action Jackson). That was the attitude that allowed him to continue his serial killing.

But those posters are quiet now. Nobody came along to wonder why anybody gave a damn about some Peruvian rich bitch.

tangerine_dream
10-16-2010, 08:44 PM
Hopefully one day he'll do the right thing and hang himself in jail.

alfonsojose
10-16-2010, 10:10 PM
Hopefully one day he'll do the right thing and hang himself in jail.

Too easy. Being ***** over and over on jail is what he deserves.

alfonsojose
11-20-2010, 01:12 PM
They found a jawbone in the beach
http://www.thirdage.com/news/natalee-holloway-jawbone-dutch-officials-almost-certainly-know_11-20-2010
Poor dumb drunk blonde :retard:

star
11-20-2010, 03:23 PM
It was interesting reading this thread from the beginning. GWH(AJ), in his supreme wisdom declared the only reason anyone cared was because the victim was pretty. Another poster declared the incident "petty." The OP seemed to think that people were being mean to Aruba and that it was something of a witch hunt. Interesting how things turned after this twisted man murdered another innocent young woman.

I've enjoyed watching Nancy Grace (http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/nancy.grace/) rip this guy a new one every day for the past week.

Nancy Grace is vile. One of the ultimate exhibits of why U.S. news is in a downward spiral.

They found a jawbone in the beach
http://www.thirdage.com/news/natalee-holloway-jawbone-dutch-officials-almost-certainly-know_11-20-2010
Poor dumb drunk blonde :retard:

Nice way to blame the victim. :rolleyes: What do you say of this most recent victim? Was she a poor dumb drunk brunette? It's as if you think only stupid drunken women are murdered and the man is just doing what comes naturally in that situation.

Filo V.
11-20-2010, 03:28 PM
A hell of a lot of victim blaming through thread. Which isn't surprising, since that's what people always do in these cases, that somehow the victim could have avoided being killed by an animalistic murderer.

Jol醤Gag
11-20-2010, 04:14 PM
I don't have the faintest idea of what are you talking about.

star
11-20-2010, 04:16 PM
I don't have the faintest idea of what are you talking about.

:hug: It's ok. The ACC contest is taking up most of your attention span right now. :p

Jol醤Gag
11-20-2010, 04:21 PM
I guess some American pulp, sure ACC is more entertaining and informative :p

star
11-20-2010, 04:33 PM
I guess some American pulp, sure ACC is more entertaining and informative :p

:hug: Yes. Don't bother your pretty head about this Western Hemisphere stuff. :hug:

cobalt60
11-20-2010, 06:04 PM
Van der Sloot is a charismatic psychopath- that's why the girls went with him. Plus the most important fact that they forgot- don't ever go with a stranger.

star
11-20-2010, 06:19 PM
Van der Sloot is a charismatic psychopath- that's why the girls went with him. Plus the most important fact that they forgot- don't ever go with a stranger.

Yup. Ted Bundy was the same.

Who knows what I might have done if approached by him for some assistance? I help out strangers when asked. I think most people do. And when the girl is young and inexperienced, she doesn't see danger. I was always quite bothered when I was young that I didn't have the same freedom of movement and action that men had. But on the other hand I wasn't keen on inviting attack or even unwanted sexual advances.

cobalt60
11-20-2010, 06:24 PM
^^ I always said no when I was younger; did not matter what they wanted. Cost me a couple of girlfriends but I never really cared.

star
11-20-2010, 06:26 PM
^^ I always said no when I was younger; did not matter what they wanted. Cost me a couple of girlfriends but I never really cared.

I still help strangers. But, I've never been one to hang out with a pack of girlfriends -- or a pack of anyones. :p I like to go places by myself. I think if I were a man, I'd have more freedom of movement that way. But, getting older helps.

Saying no, has never really been a problem for me.

alfonsojose
11-20-2010, 06:58 PM
It was interesting reading this thread from the beginning. GWH(AJ), in his supreme wisdom declared the only reason anyone cared was because the victim was pretty. Another poster declared the incident "petty." The OP seemed to think that people were being mean to Aruba and that it was something of a witch hunt. Interesting how things turned after this twisted man murdered another innocent young woman.



Nancy Grace is vile. One of the ultimate exhibits of why U.S. news is in a downward spiral.



Nice way to blame the victim. :rolleyes: What do you say of this most recent victim? Was she a poor dumb drunk brunette? It's as if you think only stupid drunken women are murdered and the man is just doing what comes naturally in that situation.

I don't think it's her fault. I have a tough first round match in the ACC torunament and i need some votes :angel:

buddyholly
11-20-2010, 11:20 PM
I don't have the faintest idea of what are you talking about.

Liar.

Like saying you don't watch reality shows.

Action Jackson
11-20-2010, 11:44 PM
But those posters are quiet now. Nobody came along to wonder why anybody gave a damn about some Peruvian rich bitch.

Well done sir. The facts are that Holloways's looks and nationality made a difference to how this story was presented, which does not change the facts that van der Sloot's heinous crimes should be punished severely.

There have been quite a few disappearances of foreign tourists like an Aussie in Croatia, then the two farcical cases in Portugal of police incompetence with the English child and another foreign women murdered. Those women in these two cases were just average looking, so the coverage was different and but that's life, it's not any of the victims fault they died.

Proximity changes the perception and instead of solely focusing on the reporting of the case, other factors come into it. As I said there are many people that disappear in Colombia daily, but that gets treated differently to this case, you are smart enough to know how it works.

buddyholly
11-21-2010, 12:07 AM
The facts are that Holloways's looks and nationality made a difference to how this story was presented, which does not change the facts that van der Sloot's heinous crimes should be punished severely.



I was never much interested in how it was presented. Hindsight is easy now, but I think I was drawn to the story by realising very early on that this should have been a simple case to solve, given the surveillance footage, and something very wrong must be happening, with complicity of Aruban authorities.

Action Jackson
11-21-2010, 12:19 AM
I was never much interested in how it was presented. Hindsight is easy now, but I think I was drawn to the story by realising very early on that this should have been a simple case to solve, given the surveillance footage, and something very wrong must be happening, with complicity of Aruban authorities.

Maybe I just don't like the overt sensationalisation when it comes to this sort of stuff. Once they knew she was murdered, then they had to investigate, but you already explained the problems with that in the Aruba situation.

As you said before the old man had influence in Aruba. Now the Peruvian victim's dad is very high up in Peru and van der Sloot should get his just deserts in theory. Too bad it took another murder for them to catch him.

buddyholly
11-21-2010, 12:22 AM
Miss Marple could have figured it out over afternoon tea and crumpets without ever leaving St Mary Meade.

Action Jackson
11-21-2010, 12:23 AM
You're in the wrong field Holly.

buddyholly
11-21-2010, 12:34 AM
Geological exploration consists pretty much of piecing together a three dimensional story from a few clues scattered around on surface. It is sort of detective work too, which is why I enjoyed it so much.

Seingeist
11-21-2010, 12:37 AM
Miss Marple could have figured it out over afternoon tea and crumpets without ever leaving St Mary Meade.

:worship:

You have just earned serious points here, my friend. My wife is a major Agatha Christie fan.

Action Jackson
11-21-2010, 12:37 AM
I thought you were the marine biology field for some reason, then again doing detective work and not dealing with humans too much.

buddyholly
11-21-2010, 12:40 AM
I wonder why. That would hardly have got me 10 years in Cuba. Unless you agree with the much-lamented Jorge that I could never have set foot in the country, otherwise I would be singing the praises of La Revolucion.

buddyholly
11-21-2010, 12:49 AM
:worship:

You have just earned serious points here, my friend. My wife is a major Agatha Christie fan.

Have you noticed how today's top so-called whodunit writers tell you in the final chapter what it was all about, but you were never given clues to figure it out for yourself.
The genius of Agatha was that you kicked yourself every time, for ignoring the real clues and swallowing the red herrings hook, line and sinker.

Seingeist
11-21-2010, 01:11 AM
Have you noticed how today's top so-called whodunit writers tell you in the final chapter what it was all about, but you were never given clues to figure it out for yourself.
The genius of Agatha was that you kicked yourself every time, for ignoring the real clues and swallowing the red herrings hook, line and sinker.

Alas, unlike my wife, I am not equally well-versed in the books and the movies, but rather only the latter (namely the Joan Hickson Marples and David Suchet Poirots). And as much as I enjoy them, I find that I am not seldom left with a very cheap deus-ex-machina kind of feeling at the end. I think that the books must do a much better job of providing reasonable clues along the way.

Other British "whodunit" shows that we really like are more often than not guilty of this as well (Midsomer Murders, Inspector Lewis, Inspector Lynley, etc.).

star
11-21-2010, 03:33 AM
Geological exploration consists pretty much of piecing together a three dimensional story from a few clues scattered around on surface. It is sort of detective work too, which is why I enjoyed it so much.

Geology :hearts:

buddyholly
12-10-2011, 05:43 PM
Van der Sloot suing Chile for $10 million dollars, because they sent him back to Peru. Well, maybe that case can be heard after his 30 years in a Peruvian jail.

Sofonda Cox
12-10-2011, 06:08 PM
Van der Sloot suing Chile for $10 million dollars, because they sent him back to Peru. Well, maybe that case can be heard after his 30 years in a Peruvian jail.

Whats the latest on this? Last I heard he was going for some lesser charge of 'heat of passion' killing of the Peruvian girl?

buddyholly
12-10-2011, 06:18 PM
Trial due to start on Jan 6.

It is a bit confusing. He apparently confessed that he killed the girl in Peru because he lost his temper when she got on his computer and started looking for what he may have posted about Natalee Halliday.
Then he recanted and said the confession was made under duress.

(If you are not fully up to date, he was fined $250,000 in the US for trying to extort money from the Hallidays in exchange for information on where Natalee's body might be.)

TV lawyers comment that Chile legally returned him to Peru, so there is no possible case that he could bring that would delay his trial in Lima. Which is probably the only reason for trying to sue Chile.

Sofonda Cox
12-10-2011, 06:41 PM
Just updated myself on everything :facepalm: The guy clearly has one or more personality disorders - his mother was actually going to do the right thing and get him committed in Aruba, bit late though. Will be an interesting trial, but the computer evidence against him is quite damning I think.

Sunset of Age
12-10-2011, 11:27 PM
A life-time inprisonment in a penal psychiatric institute appears to be the proper conviction imho. This guy is as f*cked *p as one can possibly imagine. :help:

That said - my opinion is just one of those of folks who actaully have no idea about all of the subtleties involving this case. I wish the judges to have lots of wisdom and understanding.

Mae
12-11-2011, 12:08 PM
Just seeing this guy name in print gives me the creeps :scared:

Mae
12-11-2011, 12:18 PM
Alas, unlike my wife, I am not equally well-versed in the books and the movies, but rather only the latter (namely the Joan Hickson Marples and David Suchet Poirots). And as much as I enjoy them, I find that I am not seldom left with a very cheap deus-ex-machina kind of feeling at the end. I think that the books must do a much better job of providing reasonable clues along the way.

Other British "whodunit" shows that we really like are more often than not guilty of this as well (Midsomer Murders, Inspector Lewis, Inspector Lynley, etc.).

The movies are really poor compared to the books. I have read all her books and I try to watch one of the movies and can't stand them! Also I can't watch Inspector Lewis because I watched Inspector Morse which I thought was much better! I loved John Thaw--may he R.I.P.

buddyholly
12-11-2011, 02:22 PM
Just seeing this guy name in print gives me the creeps :scared:

OK, moderators, can we please have his name appear as v*n d*r S***t?

buddyholly
12-11-2011, 02:29 PM
Alas, unlike my wife, I am not equally well-versed in the books and the movies, but rather only the latter (namely the Joan Hickson Marples and David Suchet Poirots). And as much as I enjoy them, I find that I am not seldom left with a very cheap deus-ex-machina kind of feeling at the end. I think that the books must do a much better job of providing reasonable clues along the way.



For Xmas I would give you a copy the best selling murder mystery of all time. Believe it or not it was published in 1939 with the title "Ten Little N*****s". That was soon changed to the more politically correct "Ten Little Indians.'' But eventually political correctness caught up with that title as well and it is now published under the title "And Then There Were None.''

I wish I had a first edition of the original.

Mae
12-11-2011, 03:13 PM
OK, moderators, can we please have his name appear as v*n d*r S***t?

:superlol:

For Xmas I would give you a copy the best selling murder mystery of all time. Believe it or not it was published in 1939 with the title "Ten Little N*****s". That was soon changed to the more politically correct "Ten Little Indians.'' But eventually political correctness caught up with that title as well and it is now published under the title "And Then There Were None.''

I wish I had a first edition of the original.

I had no idea about that 1st Name. I did notice that it went from "Ten Little Indians" to "Then There Were None". It truly is a great murder mystery and you have a lot of knowledge about a lot of things :bowdown:

GSMnadal
12-11-2011, 03:50 PM
http://www.almeloanders.nl/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Joran-van-der-Sloot-future-2a.jpg

So you know who to watch out for in the future

Mae
12-11-2011, 05:05 PM
For Xmas I would give you a copy the best selling murder mystery of all time. Believe it or not it was published in 1939 with the title "Ten Little N*****s". That was soon changed to the more politically correct "Ten Little Indians.'' But eventually political correctness caught up with that title as well and it is now published under the title "And Then There Were None.''

I wish I had a first edition of the original.

The only thing is the last title IMHO kind of gives a little of the mystery away. I mean you know there has to be at least one somewhere. I first read it under the title "Ten Little Indians" so I didn't get any help from the title at all! I read all of her books and never did figure out a single one of them :o

Mae
12-12-2011, 06:17 AM
http://www.almeloanders.nl/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Joran-van-der-Sloot-future-2a.jpg

So you know who to watch out for in the future

Oh that is a great double picture :lol: But that shows one of the problems about guys like that. He looks perfectly normal and in fact isn't bad looking at all. Now if they all looked like the 2nd picture no woman in the world would be fooled by someone that looked like that!

abraxas21
12-12-2011, 06:21 AM
so much hype about this case

there are thousands of other sociopaths around. this dutch dude is way overrated

Mae
12-12-2011, 06:25 AM
so much hype about this case

there are thousands of other sociopaths around. this dutch dude is way overrated

Well I hope there aren't thousands of others around, but you are right in the fact that other killers have had far more victims than van der Sloot.