Americans snub Monte-Carlo [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Americans snub Monte-Carlo

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David Kenzie
04-09-2005, 06:50 PM
There is a total of 1 american (Spadea) at the Monte-Carlo TMS this year. What are your view on this ?

All of the following could have entered either in the main draw or the qualie draw :

3 Roddick, Andy
10 Agassi, Andre
23 Spadea, Vincent
33 Dent, Taylor
54 Fish, Mardy
63 Kim, Kevin
68 Ginepri, Robby
108 Morrison, Jeff
123 Gambill, Jan-Michael
130 Gimelstob, Justin
134 Bogomolov, Alex

croat123
04-09-2005, 06:53 PM
roddick once again chickened out and is playing in houston :rolleyes:
i don't care how much that idiot matress dude has helped him, the duck has to start playing "real" tournaments. a clay court season comprised of houston, sanit polten, and rg (and he'd probably want to skip that too :tape: ) is ridiculous for a play who thinks he deserves to be at the top of the game

Action Jackson
04-09-2005, 06:54 PM
They have been doing this for years, it's not unusual.

Agassi hasn't played Monte Carlo for a very long time. I remember when Costa schooled him in 96 and he has hardly been back since.

Spadea was the only one who played last year for memory.

Kim and Ginepri would have to have qualified and they wouldn't have got direct entry into the event, so they didn't take the qualies option and stayed in the challengers or preparing for the 2nd greatest clay event in the world.

David Kenzie
04-09-2005, 07:02 PM
roddick once again chickened out and is playing in houston :rolleyes:
i don't care how much that idiot matress dude has helped him, the duck has to start playing "real" tournaments. a clay court season comprised of houston, sanit polten, and rg (and he'd probably want to skip that too :tape: ) is ridiculous for a play who thinks he deserves to be at the top of the game

I don't think he'll skip RG, but if he does he won't play saint poelten :D

Billy Moonshine
04-09-2005, 07:06 PM
I donīt think itīs significant. Itīs not a snub, at least its not meant to be offensive.
The clay court season is long and hard and they canīt play all the tournaments.
Roddick doesnīt like clay really and iīm sure it canīt be nice for him coming to Europe and having all the europeans sneering down at him for his lack of claycourt prowess. He is at least playing in Houston (where iīm sure Americans will appreciate watching him), and not pulling a new show,(what many of the south americans and spaniards do at wimbledon.)
As for Agassi, well heīs Agassi, he can do what he wants!
Still, I thought all top ten players had to enter TMS.

Action Jackson
04-09-2005, 07:09 PM
Billy, that is a weak excuse if ever was one, it's a snub and nothing but. If it was hardcourt, they'd be there.

Just like the South American and Spanish players should play the TMS events and the Slams unless they are genuinely injured, then the Americans should turn up and play on clay. The pseudo-American Haas is fit and well and isn't playing here either

uNIVERSE mAN
04-09-2005, 07:10 PM
And what's the television schedule in America for this event?

Raquel
04-09-2005, 07:13 PM
Well done to Vince Spadea for playing at the biggest event rather than avoid it and wait for a smaller event in his own country. He'll probably still get snubbed for any Davis Cup on European clay.

Billy Moonshine
04-09-2005, 07:13 PM
I donīt believe that the American players are snubbing the tournament. Maybe my excuse is weak in your opinion, but there is another tournament in Houston and Roddick can play that if he wishes.
As for Agassi, I canīt explain his absence. But he misses lots of tournies, doesnīt he?

Adam Thirnis
04-09-2005, 07:14 PM
None of the Americans has a hope in hell of winning the title so it's eminently sensible to stay away.

Sjengster
04-09-2005, 07:18 PM
I have to laugh at the idea of cheese-eating surrender monkey Europeans sneering at Roddick's lack of claycourt prowess. The French crowds love him, did you hear the crowd support for him when he went deep in Paris-Bercy a couple of years ago? And I've read match reports from RG that say the crowd were always backing him, in complete contrast to the spastic-shouting, geranium-smashing Hewitt for whom their loathing is long-established. They were rooting for him in Rome too, but were understandably unimpressed by his effort against Canas last year.

The bare facts are, to improve your game on a tough surface you have to play the best on that surface at the highest level of competition. Skipping Monte Carlo for the second straight year is one more step in the retrogression of Roddick on clay from the great European form he displayed in 2002, when he beat decent claycourters like Gonzalez and Pavel and put together some good results at all three TMS events.

Action Jackson
04-09-2005, 07:19 PM
I donīt believe that the American players are snubbing the tournament. Maybe my excuse is weak in your opinion, but there is another tournament in Houston and Roddick can play that if he wishes.
As for Agassi, I canīt explain his absence. But he misses lots of tournies, doesnīt he?

You are deluding yourself that this isn't a snub. Considering Monte Carlo is the closest of the Euro tournaments in conditions to Paris, two he is a top player and top players play the TMS events that's the bottom line and he doesn't have the guts to play there and you are cracking jokes if you think hiding and playing in Houston will benefit him in the long run.

Agassi in his younger days doesn't play here or Hamburg, he doesn't like the organisers.

David Kenzie
04-09-2005, 07:19 PM
I think Agassi is the only one who has a good excuse considering his age. And like Billy says he can do what he wants.

Action Jackson
04-09-2005, 07:20 PM
I think Agassi is the only one who has a good excuse considering his age. And like Billy says he can do what he wants.

Maybe now, but not before.

ae wowww
04-09-2005, 07:22 PM
Last year Jan Mike told me he didn't like MC anyway. Probably playing outside of a Masters Series purely to get some confidence and results.

Raquel
04-09-2005, 07:22 PM
Agassi in his younger days doesn't play here or Hamburg, he doesn't like the organisers.
Didn't Andre once pull out of Hamburg one year because he said it was too cold? Seriously.

Action Jackson
04-09-2005, 07:24 PM
Didn't Andre once pull out of Hamburg one year because he said it was too cold? Seriously.

One reason. Then the other when he got booed off court when Bruguera made mincemeat out of him, he never forgot about that.

Billy Moonshine
04-09-2005, 07:25 PM
Iīm glad the french and italians like him.They should. Heīs great :)
BTW, i think all the sneerers at roddicks claycourt game are here in the forum!!!! i think he gets a lot of abuse, no?
I think what i meant to say was roddick doesnīt want to be embarassed by a miserable defeat in Europe when he can pick up a nice title and paycheck in Houston. Good luck to him.
And I would love to see him play in europe and improve his game. Iīm a big fan and would like to see him prove people wrong.

Billy Moonshine
04-09-2005, 07:28 PM
GWH, I still donīt think itīs a snub. Houston is very important to roddick. I bet the fans there really appreciate his loyalty and make him feel good.

David Kenzie
04-09-2005, 07:29 PM
I think what i meant to say was roddick doesnīt want to be embarassed by a miserable defeat in Europe when he can pick up a nice title and paycheck in Houston. Good luck to him.
And I would love to see him play in europe and improve his game. Iīm a big fan and would like to see him prove people wrong.

If he thinks he is not going to go deep in MC then why not come anyway and then head to Houston, it's not like these tournaments are beeing played at the same time. And at his age a hole week is enough to recover from jet lag (if he looses in the first round).

madmanfool
04-09-2005, 07:30 PM
Everybody knew that Roddick and Agassi wouldn't play in Monte Carlo.
Every year it's the same, but it doesn't bother me.
Don't be angry at the Americans.
The same thing happens on grass too, but not by Americans.

Action Jackson
04-09-2005, 07:31 PM
Billy, how much bile are you willing to spew? Players get better from playing against better players and in Roddick's case the best claycourt players are in Europe and if he doesn't play against the best he won't improve. If you were a fan then this would be crystal clear. He has gone backwards on this surface, when he should be improving.

Action Jackson
04-09-2005, 07:33 PM
GWH, I still donīt think itīs a snub. Houston is very important to roddick. I bet the fans there really appreciate his loyalty and make him feel good.

Houston and a TMS event that has been around for years and actually has prestige in the tennis world, yes an easier road or not challenging himself.

Sjengster
04-09-2005, 07:34 PM
BTW, i think all the sneerers at roddicks claycourt game are here in the forum!!!! i think he gets a lot of abuse, no?
I think what i meant to say was roddick doesnīt want to be embarassed by a miserable defeat in Europe when he can pick up a nice title and paycheck in Houston. Good luck to him.

He does indeed get a lot of abuse, but when you see performances like the final set against Mutis at RG last year, you can't really blame 'em.

Of course Billy Moonshine, that's the perfect attitude for someone trying to reclaim the no. 1 ranking.

Action Jackson
04-09-2005, 07:34 PM
Everybody knew that Roddick and Agassi wouldn't play in Monte Carlo.
Every year it's the same, but it doesn't bother me.
Don't be angry at the Americans.
The same thing happens on grass too, but not by Americans.

See, the Americans don't get the same criticism as players from other nations for not playing on grass.

The thing is if they are qualified to play at these events, then unless injured they should play and that goes for all players and all surfaces.

Cervantes
04-09-2005, 07:55 PM
Why in god's name is Houston scheduled after Monte Carlo anyway? They should just switch Casablanca and Houston on the calender, that way Roddick (and other Americans) can play there and still play MC the week after. No lame excuses anymore and we'd all profit from it. After all we do want to see all top players compete in the AMS events, now don't we?

About the whole Roddick on clay discussion, it's really going downhill for him. When he first played RG he defeated Chang in five sets and he looked to be playing pretty well on clay. From there on he hasn't really performed at all and surely not playing any "real" clay events leading up to RG hasn't helped. Like GWH said, you have to play the best to improve and playing tournaments like Houston and St. Poelten doesn't help, which leads me to believe we'll see another early-round exit for Andy at the French. If he thinks he can regain the No.1 ranking by virtually skipping the entire clay season, he's dead wrong. He easily loses 500-1000 points on Federer, Hewitt and Safin during this 2 month period and I can't see him closing that gap in the rest of the season. So Roddick is probably satisfied with 4th place.

Action Jackson
04-09-2005, 07:59 PM
TMS events should be taking precendence over the other events except the Slams.

ys
04-09-2005, 08:01 PM
Monte-Carlo is insignificant. Real clay season starts in Rome.

robinhood
04-09-2005, 08:02 PM
And what's the television schedule in America for this event?

Not sure, but maybe the Tennis Channel is covering some matches.
Also ESPN(or ESPN2) used to show the highlights of the entire tournament
in 30 minutes or an hour version after the conclusion of the tournament. At least that's what they did after Hamburg last year, so I am assuming they are doing the same this year as well.

Action Jackson
04-09-2005, 08:04 PM
Monte-Carlo is insignificant. Real clay season starts in Rome.

:yawn:

Dinkie
04-09-2005, 08:04 PM
For your information, Roddick plays Houston, Rome And Hamburg. Seems like a good preparation for RG to me.
He also just got back from a wrist injury, it therefore seems very wise not to travel to Europe for just one tourny and jet back to USA and go back to Europe again. Besides that, he is very loyal to the organiser of ATP Houston, one of his favourite tournaments on the ATP tour, so unless they swap the Houston and MC date, it's not very likely he will play MC ever again.

robinhood
04-09-2005, 08:04 PM
Last year Jan Mike told me he didn't like MC anyway. Probably playing outside of a Masters Series purely to get some confidence and results.

He keeps losing in the first round just about anywhere he plays these days, so what is to like about anything related to tennis at all?

joeb_uk
04-09-2005, 08:05 PM
Probably best they stay away, saves them from getting ripped apart on court

star
04-09-2005, 08:06 PM
Didn't Andre once pull out of Hamburg one year because he said it was too cold? Seriously.

It IS too cold. It's the town without summer. brrrrrrr.

joeb_uk
04-09-2005, 08:12 PM
There is a total of 1 american (Spadea) at the Monte-Carlo TMS this year. What are your view on this ?

All of the following could have entered either in the main draw or the qualie draw :

3 Roddick, Andy
10 Agassi, Andre
23 Spadea, Vincent
33 Dent, Taylor
54 Fish, Mardy
63 Kim, Kevin
68 Ginepri, Robby
108 Morrison, Jeff
123 Gambill, Jan-Michael
130 Gimelstob, Justin
134 Bogomolov, Alex

Apart from andre, how many of these guys would actually have a chance at winning a match anyway!

ae wowww
04-09-2005, 08:24 PM
He keeps losing in the first round just about anywhere he plays these days, so what is to like about anything related to tennis at all?

Tell me, how much f*cking comedy work do you get nowadays? Not even remotely funny, f*ck off.

NOTE: I did apologise for my bad language, sorry. Was very tired and had a bad day.

RogerRocks
04-09-2005, 08:44 PM
It IS too cold. It's the town without summer. brrrrrrr.

well, may is not summer ;) In july Hamburg would be much warmer :)

Fedex
04-09-2005, 08:59 PM
They have been doing this for years, it's not unusual.

Agassi hasn't played Monte Carlo for a very long time. I remember when Costa schooled him in 96 and he has hardly been back since.

Spadea was the only one who played last year for memory.

Kim and Ginepri would have to have qualified and they wouldn't have got direct entry into the event, so they didn't take the qualies option and stayed in the challengers or preparing for the 2nd greatest clay event in the world.
:lol:

Scotso
04-09-2005, 09:43 PM
Who cares, it's better without most of them?

joeb_uk
04-09-2005, 09:45 PM
Who cares, it's better without most of them?
:yeah:

Sjengster
04-09-2005, 09:49 PM
Monte-Carlo is insignificant. Real clay season starts in Rome.

Rome, the tournament that you have pointed out in the past has not produced a RG champion in the same year for almost a decade now? Or Monte Carlo, where the last four winners have all gone on to at least reach the RG final several weeks later? You are so full of crap it's unreal.

Scotso
04-09-2005, 09:51 PM
Rome, the tournament that you have pointed out in the past has not produced a RG champion in the same year for almost a decade now? Or Monte Carlo, where the last four winners have all gone on to at least reach the RG final several weeks later? You are so full of crap it's unreal.

He knows this. His only purpose in life is to make idiotic statements. This has been established, just ignore him.

Sjengster
04-09-2005, 09:52 PM
I know, but it's still fun to point 'em out, especially after the run-ins I had with him in the last days of ATPWorld back in 2003.

tennischick
04-09-2005, 09:53 PM
give my fellow-countrymen a break OK? i don't understand why they are being criticized for playing a clay tourney at home instead of going abroad. it makes more sense to me for them to start off with the relatively easier transition to Houston and then tackle the real dirt in places like Rome and Hamburg.

y'all are asking these guys to plunge themselves into the midlle of the action when their legs just aren't ready. you need time to learn how to slide properly. heck Sampras spent his entire career practicing and all he could manage was to slide after he had hit the ball :p

Sjengster
04-09-2005, 10:03 PM
I would like to see Andy put the same kind of effort into Houston and the euro-clay events as he did during his DC final with Spain. I don't remember seeing him play that well and with that kind of single-mindedness on clay in quite a while. I don't think he'll ever evolve into a clay specialist but he proved to himself at DC that he can play on clay when he wants to put his mind to it.

At one point he thought he couldn't play on grass, either. Next thing he knows, he's in the Wimby semis and then the finals. Making a few necessary attitude adjustments can go a long way for him. :)



Quit making sense, Dinkie. You'll scare off the clay snobs and then this thread wouldn't be any fun to read. :lol:

The DC tie showed how far away he is from the best on clay, yes he fought hard but he didn't have a hope in hell when his game was nowhere near what was required to win on that surface. The adjustments he had to make to play well on grass are nowhere near as big as they have to be for clay; grass plays like a hardcourt these days anyway, once Gilbert taught him how to hit a return and a backhand pass he had the sort of results on it that he should have had from the beginning of his career.

Dinkie's point makes absolutely no sense at all. Playing two major warm-up events in Europe can backfire badly if you happen to produce two poor performances in a row; Federer skipped Monte Carlo last year, lost early in Rome because he wasn't accustomed to the surface and had a tough unseeded opponent, and then in Hamburg he was two games away from being dumped out in the first round and being forced to go to Paris with three clay matches under his belt, two of them losses. As it turned out he got it together against Gaudio and ended up winning the whole thing, although once again it didn't do him any good in terms of making a good showing at RG.

Roddick is less accomplished on the dirt and will probably have a couple of early round losses, therefore it makes sense to give yourself the best possible chance to make a good run in one tournament against elite opposition and build up confidence for Paris. But choosing to stay loyal to a tournament that was kind enough to give you an opportunity to pick up your first title, instead of going to Europe and taking active steps to improve your game on your hardest surface, is testament to a lack of ambition on Roddick's part that could severely hamper him in future.

Sjengster
04-09-2005, 10:07 PM
give my fellow-countrymen a break OK? i don't understand why they are being criticized for playing a clay tourney at home instead of going abroad. it makes more sense to me for them to start off with the relatively easier transition to Houston and then tackle the real dirt in places like Rome and Hamburg.

y'all are asking these guys to plunge themselves into the midlle of the action when their legs just aren't ready. you need time to learn how to slide properly. heck Sampras spent his entire career practicing and all he could manage was to slide after he had hit the ball :p

But strangely enough TC, skipping Monte Carlo and playing Houston instead seems to have produced sod all for the young Americans in Rome and Hamburg in the last couple of years. Why is that? :scratch:

Don't forget your point about needing time to learn how to slide properly when the Spaniards and South Americans get criticised for skipping a grass court Slam that starts two weeks after the end of the clay court season.

Billy Moonshine
04-09-2005, 11:11 PM
Roddickīs loyalty to houston is not because of lack of ambition. This is a former year end number one and GS champ. He has ambition.
He also has sentiment and feelings and wants to be loyal to a tournament where he receives a great welcome and great support.
I like him even more for that loyalty. This is why i like Roddick, he gives a lot back to his supporters. Going to MC may be better is some opinions because he will play the worldīs best, but he does that all year round. And does very well at it too, he is still a top three player. i think missing one important tournament isnīt such a crime.
And this thread is too political. Itīs a fashionable european intellectual trend to criticise Americans and to consider Andy missing MC as a snub is egocentric and stupid.

Sjengster
04-09-2005, 11:15 PM
Believe me, no one gets more annoyed at lazy anti-Americanism than me, and I'm hardly crestfallen at the prospect of Roddick and co. not being in Monte Carlo, but his decision to skip it says nothing impressive about his game or his determination to improve on a tough surface.

euroka1
04-09-2005, 11:16 PM
He also likes to be the center of attention.

Billy Moonshine
04-09-2005, 11:24 PM
Okay, maybe playing MC would satisfy his critics and Iīm sure he is aware of the criticism, however itīs a tough choice to make and he canīt win either way.
What would they say in Houston if he just dropped them?

Chloe le Bopper
04-09-2005, 11:29 PM
Dissapointing, but expected. The show will go on :cool:

euroka1
04-09-2005, 11:30 PM
It's not a criticism as much as a fact of life that determines his course of action both on and off the court.

Billy Moonshine
04-09-2005, 11:32 PM
Maybe. Either way i hope he does well in Houston. And I hope Nalbandian wins in MC.

euroka1
04-09-2005, 11:38 PM
Maybe. Either way i hope he does well in Houston. And I hope Nalbandian wins in MC.

Yes, I too wish Roddick well amongst friends in Houston. I have to confess though that I do not get much pleasure out of watching his game. Give me Federer any day.

Billy Moonshine
04-09-2005, 11:48 PM
I donīt know why people compare fed to Roddick. They are so different!
I like roddick because he isnīt like fed. He isnīt a genuis but he, like most people, has had to work hard to make the most out of what he has and his serve, forehand and mind have bought him great success. i love watching him fight and hustle and bustle.
I hope the Houston fans lap it up and andy enjoys their support.
And i hope nalbandian faces fed in MC and restarts their rivalry with a victory.

NATAS81
04-09-2005, 11:52 PM
Let the Amerks do what they want. Andy has achieved alot, so give him the benefit of his call.

Thank you and see ya in HOU.

Weeeeeeeee

Big servin' multiple facial expressions, he serves quick, watch ya step, you missed his kick up the TEE trick!!!

Sjengster
04-10-2005, 12:06 AM
Maybe. Either way i hope he does well in Houston. And I hope Nalbandian wins in MC.

Fat chance of that, sadly. :sad:

ys
04-10-2005, 12:10 AM
Rome, the tournament that you have pointed out in the past has not produced a RG champion in the same year for almost a decade now?

You mean results of Monte-Carlo, Rome or Hamburg? They all are irrelevant. I addressed the issue of American skipping it, and it is extremely primitive thinking to somehow link them skipping it with results of these tournaments. These tournaments are just tune-ups whose results are hardly important for best players. And Monte-Carlo is the least important from these tune-ups because it is more than a month before the tournament for which these tournaments serve as tune-ups.

Sjengster
04-10-2005, 12:12 AM
I donīt know why people compare fed to Roddick. They are so different!
I like roddick because he isnīt like fed. He isnīt a genuis but he, like most people, has had to work hard to make the most out of what he has and his serve, forehand and mind have bought him great success. i love watching him fight and hustle and bustle.
I hope the Houston fans lap it up and andy enjoys their support.
And i hope nalbandian faces fed in MC and restarts their rivalry with a victory.

I can understand what you're saying, but that cuts both ways - I like a lot of players because they have to work harder for their points than Roddick does (see my username, for example). Roddick is scarcely the grinder getting by on guts and determination alone, he has plenty of major weapons that are effective but decidedly monotonous. People claim that Federer's victories in finals have been too dull and one-sided, but I'd take them any day over the unceasing acefest that was the US Open final in 2003.

It certainly wouldn't go down too well in Houston if Roddick decided to skip the event and go to Europe, but every player has to make tough choices in their career and this doesn't seem like the right one to me. Heck, it's not as if he hasn't given them their money's worth - four straight finals, the first two being successful? Compare that to, say, Federer, who had an appalling record in Gstaad before 2003 but had a contract to play there straight after Wimbledon; now that he's finally managed to win it, it may not be on his schedule again this year.

Sjengster
04-10-2005, 12:14 AM
You mean results of Monte-Carlo, Rome or Hamburg? They all are irrelevant. I addressed the issue of American skipping it, and it is extremely primitive thinking to somehow link them skipping it with results of these tournaments. These tournaments are just tune-ups whose results are hardly important for best players. And Monte-Carlo is the least important from these tune-ups because it is more than a month before the tournament for which these tournaments serve as tune-ups.

It would seem that for you there are only five tournaments that matter throughout the entire year, the Slams plus Davis Cup. Fortunately the rest of us and the players don't feel the same way.

robinhood
04-10-2005, 12:16 AM
Tell me, how much fucking comedy work do you get nowadays? Not even remotely funny, fuck off.

Okay....
I didn't understand what exactly your problem might be with my post, but I just saw your signature. Sorry if you took it as an insult to JM, but I didn't mean it that way. I apologize.
But I suggest that you watch your language, though.

euroka1
04-10-2005, 12:49 AM
I donīt know why people compare fed to Roddick. They are so different!
I like roddick because he isnīt like fed. He isnīt a genuis but he, like most people, has had to work hard to make the most out of what he has and his serve, forehand and mind have bought him great success. i love watching him fight and hustle and bustle.


You're quite right. I'm the first to admit that it is all a matter of taste. But as I often say, one doesn't have to watch if one doesn't like it. Edberg was one of my earlier favorites for similar reasons. He played a very thoughtful and artistic game and I really used to enjoy seeing him work out the points.

tennischick
04-10-2005, 01:13 AM
But strangely enough TC, skipping Monte Carlo and playing Houston instead seems to have produced sod all for the young Americans in Rome and Hamburg in the last couple of years. Why is that? :scratch:

Don't forget your point about needing time to learn how to slide properly when the Spaniards and South Americans get criticised for skipping a grass court Slam that starts two weeks after the end of the clay court season.
it doesn't matter where they play or don't -- the Americans are at a disadvantage bec they do not grow up playing in dirt. i actually saw a clay court for the first time when i went to the caribbean -- up til then i had no idea what one looked like, much less knew how to play on one.

and i have never crititicized the Spanish for missing the grass season. i have applauded those that give it a shot but i have not criticized those who chose to stay with the dirt. just for the record.

Fedex
04-10-2005, 01:32 AM
Dissapointing, but expected. The show will go on :cool:
Damn! I was really looking forward to watching Ginepri bedevil us with his clay court artistry. :(

ys
04-10-2005, 01:56 AM
It would seem that for you there are only five tournaments that matter throughout the entire year, the Slams plus Davis Cup.


Exactly. Ask most of tennis fans who won Wimbledon in 1985, or US Open in 1990, or French Open in 1988, and you will always get an answer from any averagely knowledgeable tennis fan. But ask them to tell you without looking it up who won Monaco in 1985, who won Canadian Open in 1990 or won Bercy in 1988, and they will look at you as an imbecile. All value of the rest tournaments is their rankings points and their money, neither of which has any residual value ( apart from player's banking accounts ) 52 weeks after. Historical value of Masters tournaments is next to 0. How many Masters did Krajicek win? Who cares.. He is an Wimbledon champion. Medvedev won 4 Masters. But he would happily trade them altogether for one set in the that RG final that he should have won.

Fortunately the rest of us and the players don't feel the same way.


It is your problem, "the rest of us". And for players it is ranking points that will last for 52 weeks, and their money. But any HoF candidate will say - "F@ck the Masters, I want Slams".

ftd999
04-10-2005, 01:57 AM
roddick once again chickened out and is playing in houston :rolleyes:
i don't care how much that idiot matress dude has helped him, the duck has to start playing "real" tournaments. a clay court season comprised of houston, sanit polten, and rg (and he'd probably want to skip that too :tape: ) is ridiculous for a play who thinks he deserves to be at the top of the game

:yeah:

It's pathetic. Coria, Nadal, and all the rest play on every surface. They fight hard and compete even in defeat, and what do you know, they are all more complete players because of it. It's just a joke that you have a premiere tournament like MC with all the top players except the Americans.

Agassi's really the only one with an excuse because he's possibly in his final season. But good job Spadea :)

ys
04-10-2005, 02:01 AM
:yeah:

It's pathetic. Coria, Nadal, and all the rest play on every surface.


Of course, coming from relatively poor countries, they want money, so they play. Kafelnikov also played everything. What would this tournament add to Agassi's resume? Nothing. Just like in terms of money. WHat would it give to Roddick? Not much either. They don't need it, they make enough money elsewhere.


They fight hard and compete even in defeat, and what do you know, they are all more complete players because of it.


More complete players? :rolls: The most incomplete players among top ranked players.



It's just a joke that you have a premiere tournament like MC with all the top players except the Americans.


It is just a joke that it is considered a premiere tournament.

JeLuliA88
04-10-2005, 02:08 AM
Agassi.. he does seem to miss alot of other tournaments, so i think this is normal for him.

But as for Roddick, he probably just didn't want to humiliate himself with an early loss, considering he has never done that well @ Monte Carlo.

Fedex
04-10-2005, 02:10 AM
Agassi.. he does seem to miss alot of other tournaments, so i think this is normal for him.


Agassi has been skipping this tournement for years now, so this doesn't suprise me.

robinhood
04-10-2005, 03:26 AM
I think Nalbandian is also not playing in MC. Is he injured??

Fee
04-10-2005, 05:59 AM
All of the following could have entered either in the main draw or the qualie draw :

3 Roddick, Andy
10 Agassi, Andre
23 Spadea, Vincent
33 Dent, Taylor
54 Fish, Mardy
63 Kim, Kevin
68 Ginepri, Robby
108 Morrison, Jeff
123 Gambill, Jan-Michael
130 Gimelstob, Justin
134 Bogomolov, Alex

You need to improve on the quality of your facts. 52 players get direct entry to MC, this year the first entry cutoff was Fish at 49. The qualifying entry cutoff was #94 so Morrison, Gambill, Gimelstob and Bogomolov knew three weeks ago that they probably would not get into qualies and chose to make other plans (all four of them are playing Challengers next week). Please try to get a rudimentary understanding of ATP scheduling and entry deadlines before posting a public assumption like this, you might make yourself look silly.

But you don't care about those lower ranked guys anyway. Kim is playing the Bermuda Challenger (clay) next week - probably a wise decision to play a smaller tournament before trying a clay court Masters considering he's only broken into the Top 100 this year. Ginepri probably didn't see the value in flying over to play and lose a match, then come back to the US. I'm sure he'll head over to Europe after Houston as he did last year.

So, the other four made a decision not to play MC for whatever reason. Taylor may be hurt. Andre doesn't like the tournament/he's older can reduce his schedule. Andy is hurt/didn't want to go. Who knows what's up with Fish. So what? Did you make a similar thread when all those players pulled out of Madrid and Bercy last Fall? Will you make a similar one for the remainder of the Masters and Slams this year when other players pull out?

Puschkin
04-10-2005, 06:52 AM
..... they want money, so they play. Kafelnikov also played everything.

The money is an argument. But Evgenij was also one of the few guys able to play on every surface. Or do you know of any other RG champion who won Halle on grass in the same year and reaching the final of Bercy also in the same year?

WyveN
04-10-2005, 09:09 AM
I can see the reasoning behind most of the Americans staying at home. They have just played the USA hardcourt tournaments, there is a Houston clay event next week and following that most of them will be in Europe until after Wimbledon so they probably dont see much point in flying to Europe for a week for a tournament on a surface they are no good on.

Players should play all the TMS events, and it is no good for their clay court game in the long run but I can still see their logic.

ae wowww
04-10-2005, 09:20 AM
Okay....
I didn't understand what exactly your problem might be with my post, but I just saw your signature. Sorry if you took it as an insult to JM, but I didn't mean it that way. I apologize.
But I suggest that you watch your language, though.

Sorry, I was tired yesterday and stupid.. Apologies for lashing out :sad:

euroka1
04-10-2005, 09:52 AM
Of course, coming from relatively poor countries, they want money, so they play. Kafelnikov also played everything. What would this tournament add to Agassi's resume? Nothing. Just like in terms of money. WHat would it give to Roddick? Not much either. They don't need it, they make enough money elsewhere.


More complete players? :rolls: The most incomplete players among top ranked players.



Money, unfortunately, is the driving force behind professional tennis these days, rather than the game itself.

Kristen
04-10-2005, 10:00 AM
I don't really care why Americans do what they do.... (OK I give a damn about a few of the crappier ones, but that's about it ;)) Brian Vahaly... where are youuu....
*j/k. I could find him if I looked hard enough.*

David Kenzie
04-10-2005, 10:12 AM
You need to improve on the quality of your facts. 52 players get direct entry to MC, this year the first entry cutoff was Fish at 49. The qualifying entry cutoff was #94 so Morrison, Gambill, Gimelstob and Bogomolov knew three weeks ago that they probably would not get into qualies and chose to make other plans (all four of them are playing Challengers next week). Please try to get a rudimentary understanding of ATP scheduling and entry deadlines before posting a public assumption like this, you might make yourself look silly.

But you don't care about those lower ranked guys anyway. Kim is playing the Bermuda Challenger (clay) next week - probably a wise decision to play a smaller tournament before trying a clay court Masters considering he's only broken into the Top 100 this year. Ginepri probably didn't see the value in flying over to play and lose a match, then come back to the US. I'm sure he'll head over to Europe after Houston as he did last year.

So, the other four made a decision not to play MC for whatever reason. Taylor may be hurt. Andre doesn't like the tournament/he's older can reduce his schedule. Andy is hurt/didn't want to go. Who knows what's up with Fish. So what? Did you make a similar thread when all those players pulled out of Madrid and Bercy last Fall? Will you make a similar one for the remainder of the Masters and Slams this year when other players pull out?

This thread was never intended to be offensive, in fact I am a fan of most of these players. The reason I posted this is that I think there is a decline in attendence from american players (4 in 2003, 3 in 2004, 1 in 2005 inc. qualies).

I know that some of the players I included in the first post didn't have a big chance of playing three weeks ago but the fact is they could have entered (although maybe not all of them together) since the final cut off for the qualies is 142. However I agree that the lower ranked players are better off playing challengers.

Action Jackson
04-10-2005, 01:09 PM
Personally it doesn't matter too much if the Americans don't turn up to the clay events, as long as it's ok for the Spanish and the South Americans not to bother about the grass events, because they have no chance on the surface. If they are evenly criticised for the same action then that's fine.

For the asinine one if Roddick is geniunely serious about improving his game on clay then he wouldn't be playing Houston.

missroddickfan
04-10-2005, 01:17 PM
For the asinine one if Roddick is geniunely serious about improving his game on clay then he wouldn't be playing Houston.
but he'll play rome, hamburg and the roland garros, isnt it enough 4 an american??

Action Jackson
04-10-2005, 01:21 PM
but he'll play rome, hamburg and the roland garros, isnt it enough 4 an american??

Have you read through the whole thread? There have been countless reasons explained by many people about Roddick on clay.

How is it a guy has gone backwards in his career on his surface. He withdrew from Hamburg and wouldn't surprise if he did it again.

Spadea is the only one who is prepared to put it on the line.

missroddickfan
04-10-2005, 01:28 PM
Have you read through the whole thread? There have been countless reasons explained by many people about Roddick on clay.

How is it a guy has gone backwards in his career on his surface. He withdrew from Hamburg and wouldn't surprise if he did it again.

Spadea is the only one who is prepared to put it on the line.
ok, im not so stupid to think he's good at playing on clay, everybody knows. but if u dont like a surface, maybe u focuse more on the tourns played on other surfaces, even if u want to improve. even if roddick wants to improve on clay he will never play as good as on hard, it's obvious, so he tries to play tourns when he can bring pts, and montecarlo isnt among them i think.
and i dont think he will withdraw from hamburg.

Action Jackson
04-10-2005, 01:33 PM
ok, im not so stupid to think he's good at playing on clay, everybody knows. but if u dont like a surface, maybe u focuse more on the tourns played on other surfaces, even if u want to improve. even if roddick wants to improve on clay he will never play as good as on hard, it's obvious, so he tries to play tourns when he can bring pts, and montecarlo isnt among them i think.
and i dont think he will withdraw from hamburg.

So it's OK to hide in smaller events just to get points when he is one of the elite players in the game, because it's on a surface he doesn't like?

So it's good that he has gone backwards in his play on this surface? It's not like he is a veteran, where he should be going backwards in relation to ability on the surface.

WyveN
04-10-2005, 01:35 PM
Personally it doesn't matter too much if the Americans don't turn up to the clay events, as long as it's ok for the Spanish and the South Americans not to bother about the grass events

Not many Spanish/South Americans guys play Queens or Halle which is what they should be doing if they want to imrpove on the surace. Coria did last year, credit to him.

missroddickfan
04-10-2005, 01:35 PM
So it's OK to hide in smaller events just to get points when he is one of the elite players in the game, because it's on a surface he doesn't like?

he choose so

Action Jackson
04-10-2005, 01:38 PM
Not many Spanish/South Americans guys play Queens or Halle which is what they should be doing if they want to imrpove on the surace. Coria did last year, credit to him.

I mean they should especially if they lose early at RG. I just wish there was more incentive for them to improve on that surface and have a longer grass season at the expense of some of the hardcourts events, but that's a dream.

If they played Rosmalen/Nottingham that wouldn't be so bad.

Action Jackson
04-10-2005, 01:38 PM
he choose so

You never answered the question.

WyveN
04-10-2005, 01:43 PM
I mean they should especially if they lose early at RG.


True but Coria came after a crushing FO final loss and I am sure in the long term it will improve his grass/carpet game and he will have a few decent results.


I just wish there was more incentive for them to improve on that surface and have a longer grass season at the expense of some of the hardcourts events, but that's a dream.


Thats true but playing on the fast grass will also help with the indoor carpet events and there are a few big ones there.


If they played Rosmalen/Nottingham that wouldn't be so bad.

Yes but most dont. Its not like they cant play on fast surfaces either. Moya had a shocking grass record until he put the effort in for DC in 2003 and it paid off at Wimbledon in 2004.

Action Jackson
04-10-2005, 01:48 PM
WyveN, I agree with the whole post. The main thing is consistency with this issue, it's not alright for the Spanish/South American guys to not bother with grass, though there is less of a reason to do so than clay and that is just as bad as the Americans not turning up to these events.

This has been going on for years and I remember Muster having a go at them in the 90s, if I find the quote I'll paste it somewhere.

buddyholly
04-10-2005, 01:51 PM
The ATP circuit is simply too long. Nobody can play every week unless he is called Kafelnikov. It is hardly surprising that players drop tournaments on surfaces they are least comfortable on.

Action Jackson
04-10-2005, 01:56 PM
MrHolly, we are in agreeance about the circuit being too long.

Experimentee
04-10-2005, 01:59 PM
Itis not really a surprise, they dont normally play Monte Carlo.
At least all the Americans play RG, not like some Spanairds who snub Wimbledon. Every player should make their best effort to play a Slam, but there are just too many Masters Series all in close proximity to each other and they cant be expected to play every one. 3 in 4 tournaments is a bit much and Monte Carlo is on a different continent so you can understand why they wouldnt play it.

Action Jackson
04-10-2005, 02:02 PM
Every player should make their best effort to play a Slam, but there are just too many Masters Series all in close proximity to each other and they cant be expected to play every one. 3 in 4 tournaments is a bit much and Monte Carlo is on a different continent so you can understand why they wouldnt play it.

They could always play less optional events.

propi
04-10-2005, 02:37 PM
Some people here seem to forget lots of players skipping Wimby do it for its absurd seeding, not for the surface itself. :rolleyes:

Action Jackson
04-10-2005, 02:40 PM
Some people here seem to forget lots of players skipping Wimby do it for its absurd seeding, not for the surface itself. :rolleyes:

To be honest it was a combo of both factors.

vogus
04-10-2005, 02:49 PM
it's almost a tradition that the Americans skip Monte Carlo on a regular basis.

But there are also rogue non-conformist Americans like Spadea and Tarango who have always shown up there, and to be fair, pretty much all the US players have played it at one time or another.

Rezandinah
04-10-2005, 03:06 PM
There are not a lot of American at Monte Carlo, so ? Big deal...
These are not the American players who win on clay after all ;)

Billy Moonshine
04-10-2005, 03:32 PM
I think its funny how people are getting their knickers in a twist over roddick not playing MC and playing houston.
What is all this stuff about if he seriously wanted to improve his game heīd play in MC?
I mean its one tournament!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Give him a break. I think you just like moaning about him.

Action Jackson
04-10-2005, 03:38 PM
I think its funny how people are getting their knickers in a twist over roddick not playing MC and playing houston.
What is all this stuff about if he seriously wanted to improve his game heīd play in MC?
I mean its one tournament!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Give him a break. I think you just like moaning about him.

Give it up apologist really. Yes, Americans don't play Monte Carlo and if you opened your eyes, you'd see why some posters have said that he should be playing the best events. One, he is a top player and they should be playing in the TMS events and if you can't see that playing at MC is the closest to RG conditions against quality players isn't beneficial, then there isn't much hope for you?

Explain why have his results gone backwards on clay? It's not one tournament, there is an overall perspective that you can't or won't see, but don't whine when he has bad results on clay and the critics slate him for it.

Billy Moonshine
04-10-2005, 03:45 PM
No, i can see why people think he should play MC. I think you are being quite rude really. Iīm not a stupid person whatever you may say.
I just respect Andyīs loyalty to Houston.
Maybe supporting a US tournament that has been really good for him is more important than playing in Monte Carlo.It is TMS and Iīm sure he knows that he is expected to play but heīs decided not too. Itīs his call and i respect that.
Why canīt you respect this decision too and stop criticising him just because you donīt like him?

Action Jackson
04-10-2005, 03:54 PM
No, i can see why people think he should play MC. I think you are being quite rude really. Iīm not a stupid person whatever you may say.

I said apologist, not stupid. There is a definite difference between these two words.

I just respect Andyīs loyalty to Houston.
Maybe supporting a US tournament that has been really good for him is more important than playing in Monte Carlo.It is TMS and Iīm sure he knows that he is expected to play but heīs decided not too. Itīs his call and i respect that.

He has already paid that loyalty back and it's not like he doesn't play enough in the US as it is. He has to start performing consistently outside of the US except on the grass, he hasn't done it at the indoor or clay events.

The bigger tournaments need their biggest names and he happens to be one of them.

Why canīt you respect this decision too and stop criticising him just because you donīt like him?

You make this too easy don't you. I have and many times talked about Roddick's game and that hasn't been a problem, but you wouldn't be prepared to se that and yes I have even spoken with Roddick fans on this board about it.

Considering he's a top player and he is not a junior or his first year on the tour and he isn't challenging himself consistently against the best on clay, if you can respect him, it's your choice.

Answer the question. Why has his play gone backwards on clay?

Billy Moonshine
04-10-2005, 04:15 PM
I wasnīt refering to the term apologist as calling me stupid. itīs the general tone of your reply, making out that I havent understood your criticisms of roddick. Your general tone is patronising. Perhaps I am wrong. i donīt know.
Anyway, you can criticise roddick all you like. I think that his decision not to play MC is okay. he still plays Houston, rome, hamburg and RG. Thats still good prep.
He obviously doesnīt feel that he has paid his debt to houston. However misguided people may think this is, its his choice and respect to him for making it. I still say that it is a good one and the houston fans will love it and i think that is just as important as him playing against the best in MC. Without us he wouldnīt be able to do what he loves for a living.Maybe to Andy this is more important than being the best tennis player ever, which i think he knows is beyond him. One of the best maybe, but not the best.He will just be the best that he can be.
And I respect Kuerten and Gaudio and the likes for skipping wimbledon. I donīt want people to disrespect me when I make decisions that i think are in my best interests and I dont do it to others.
I donīt know if his game has done backwards on clay. I think his opponents know how to beat him on it and he hasnīt the skills to prevent this. Perhaps he will still learn them. he is still very young. He plays maybe 4 or 5 tournaments a year on it and loses early. Okay this isnt good but at least he still plays clay tournaments and shows up at RG.
Anyway whatever I say you will hammer it back at me and say its rubbish.
The last thing I will write on this is this:
WHO CARES! YOU GO ANDY AND DO WHATEVER YOU WANT AND WHATEVER MAKES YOU HAPPY COS THAT MAKES ME HAPPY TOO!!!!! COS IīM A FAN AND SUPPORT YOUR DECISIONS. UNCONDITIONAL LOVE BABY; IT RULES XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Rogiman
04-10-2005, 04:23 PM
BMS, you're taking it all too personally aren't you...? ;)

Billy Moonshine
04-10-2005, 04:25 PM
Rogiman, yes, it does seem like that.
But no. I donīt really care! I mean, itīs fun being here and chatting about tennis. Certainly noone i know in the real world listens!!!
Iīm just giving my opinion. And I just get really sick of all the snide comments about Andy. I really like him!!!!!!

uNIVERSE mAN
04-10-2005, 04:30 PM
They could always play less optional events.

Problem is that's where some of the top guys make their most money, the appearance fees are substantial to make it worth their while. :shrug:

Rogiman
04-10-2005, 04:32 PM
And I just get really sick of all the snide comments about Andy. I really like him!!!!!!

Well I don't, each to their own i guess. ;)

And the vast majority of his titles have come within the US borders, it's time he started proving himself far from the supporting crowd.

You may say you respect his decision - but isn't that almost like saying he's declared himself second-tier player on clay and you're okay with that?

Action Jackson
04-10-2005, 04:33 PM
I wasnīt refering to the term apologist as calling me stupid. itīs the general tone of your reply, making out that I havent understood your criticisms of roddick. Your general tone is patronising. Perhaps I am wrong. i donīt know.

Think what you like and there are fans of Roddick who have criticised his preparation, so not anyone who does it is a hater.

And I respect Kuerten and Gaudio and the likes for skipping wimbledon. I donīt want people to disrespect me when I make decisions that i think are in my best interests and I dont do it to others.

Considering it was a seeding issue with Guga and Gaudio only missed Wimbledon last year with an injury. The Guga one is different and their stance was effective in getting the subjective seedings reviewed, but it's a Slam and they should play them.

I donīt know if his game has done backwards on clay. I think his opponents know how to beat him on it and he hasnīt the skills to prevent this. Perhaps he will still learn them. he is still very young. He plays maybe 4 or 5 tournaments a year on it and loses early. Okay this isnt good but at least he still plays clay tournaments and shows up at RG.

If someone has worse results than previous, how hasn't their game gone backwards? He hasn't shown the aptitude and willingness to do it unlike the other top fastcourt players in dealing with the clay challenge.

The last thing I will write on this is this:
WHO CARES! YOU GO ANDY AND DO WHATEVER YOU WANT AND WHATEVER MAKES YOU HAPPY COS THAT MAKES ME HAPPY TOO!!!!! COS IīM A FAN AND SUPPORT YOUR DECISIONS. UNCONDITIONAL LOVE BABY; IT RULES

That is it never question anything, those are the best fans.

Rogiman
04-10-2005, 04:33 PM
Problem is that's where some of the top guys make their most money, the appearance fees are substantial to make it worth their while. :shrug:

I don't think that in this stage of his career (when he's already made more money than he could spend) money is what drives him.

Action Jackson
04-10-2005, 04:35 PM
Problem is that's where some of the top guys make their most money, the appearance fees are substantial to make it worth their while. :shrug:

To an extent, but they can pick and choose the good ones like Dubai and a few others.

I don't have time for the ones that are tired for a TMS, but good enough to play an optional with plenty of coin.

Billy Moonshine
04-10-2005, 04:36 PM
Well, I believe that Andy doesnīt have to prove anything.I believe this about everyone. You only have to prove things to yourself.
Also there are lots of tournamnets in the US. He canīt help that!
And i think if he declares himself a second tier claycourt player then yes iīm happy with that. What this says about me I donīt know but hopefully one day he will win a big clay court title and we can see that lovely big smile of his.

Rogiman
04-10-2005, 04:38 PM
Well, I believe that Andy doesnīt have to prove anything.I believe this about everyone. You only have to prove things to yourself.
Also there are lots of tournamnets in the US. He canīt help that!
And i think if he declares himself a second tier claycourt player then yes iīm happy with that. What this says about me I donīt know but hopefully one day he will win a big clay court title and we can see that lovely big smile of his.

I hope that happens for you, although I hope he'll spare my eyes the sight of his big smile. ;)

uNIVERSE mAN
04-10-2005, 04:38 PM
I want the top players to play all the TMS events too. I wasn't too happy that Rogi pulled out of 3 or 4 of them last year. This year it looks like he's stronger and fitter. Hopefully he'll play them all (barring injury). :)

As for Roddick, my opinion is simply that he's resigned, and prefers being a big fish in a little sea, rather than...

Rogiman
04-10-2005, 04:39 PM
As for Roddick, my opinion is simply that he's resigned, and prefers being a big fish in a little sea, rather than...

My thought exactly.

Action Jackson
04-10-2005, 04:40 PM
I want the top players to play all the TMS events too. I wasn't too happy that Rogi pulled out of 3 or 4 of them last year. This year it looks like he's stronger and fitter. Hopefully he'll play them all (barring injury). :)

As for Roddick, my opinion is simply that he's resigned, and prefers being a big fish in a little sea, rather than...

Agreed on all of that.

Billy Moonshine
04-10-2005, 04:42 PM
GWH, I never said that only haters criticicised Andy. I said that YOU were patronising me, didnīt you read it?
And whatever anyones reason, injry, other commitments, for not playing a tournament i respect that.
And yes, the best fans support their favs decisions. I donīt question Andy because iīm in no position to do so. Heīs the pro.Why do you think you know better? And donīt say you donīt because I think you do!

David Kenzie
04-10-2005, 04:44 PM
I want the top players to play all the TMS events too. I wasn't too happy that Rogi pulled out of 3 or 4 of them last year. This year it looks like he's stronger and fitter. Hopefully he'll play them all (barring injury). :)
Rogi would have been mad not to play Monte-Carlo since he is already on two back to back TMS titles. Missing the opportunity to win 3 in a row would be a shame for Mr Recordman.
Has it ever been done before ?

Action Jackson
04-10-2005, 04:45 PM
GWH, I never said that only haters criticicised Andy. I said that YOU were patronising me, didnīt you read it?
And whatever anyones reason, injry, other commitments, for not playing a tournament i respect that.
And yes, the best fans support their favs decisions. I donīt question Andy because iīm in no position to do so. Heīs the pro.Why do you think you know better? And donīt say you donīt because I think you do!

Actually all people should be accountable for their actions and that goes for favourites and if you want to have the blinkers on go ahead.

Billy Moonshine
04-10-2005, 04:45 PM
Andy, big fish, little fish, a great player, i hope he stays around and gives his fans something to cheer about.
And Rogiman, I agree, that smile, itīs a little wonky, itīs not for everyone, but i love him for it.
And love is blind.:)

Rogiman
04-10-2005, 04:46 PM
BMS, from my point of view it's not about him being unfair to the sports - it's rather about him chickenning out and playing a field of a lower quality instead of facing players of the caliber his ranking suggests he should face.

Billy Moonshine
04-10-2005, 04:47 PM
Iīm not blinkered, i see both sides. But i choose to support Andy. Thatīs a good fan, no?

Billy Moonshine
04-10-2005, 04:49 PM
Maybe heīs chicken.
I donīt know.
I think he just likes Houston.
A little simple maybe but some people donīt analyse everything. They just do what they like. And if it doesnīt hurt anyone, good on them.

Action Jackson
04-10-2005, 04:51 PM
Iīm not blinkered, i see both sides. But i choose to support Andy. Thatīs a good fan, no?

If you are not blinkered then Andy has a rubbish serve. It is very possible to be a good fan of someone and question things, there are plenty of examples on this board that show that.

So you think it's alright for him to dodge the best competition then? What Rogiman says about that and many others in here have said it, but you'll try and apologise for anything that is deemed critical.

uNIVERSE mAN
04-10-2005, 04:54 PM
I agree. You should question even your favourite players if they make bad decisions. I'm a Rogi fan and I question some bad decisions he's made (which he hasn't yet). But I'm sure I would if he did.

Billy Moonshine
04-10-2005, 04:57 PM
No, actually i havent apologised for everything that criticises roddick.iīve just given reasons why he may have made his decision. Since when is debating apologising?
I think the debate here is: Is Andy running away from the competition or fulfilling commitments, which he feels are more important to him, to a tournament that is in the states.
Criticise away.
Heīs playing Houston. heīs happy with that. Iīm his fan, iīm happy with that.
Iīm not blinkered though. I see the points youre making, i just choose to stick by what i believe.
I think its called thinking for yourself.

Action Jackson
04-10-2005, 05:05 PM
No, actually i havent apologised for everything that criticises roddick.iīve just given reasons why he may have made his decision. Since when is debating apologising?

Considering it was yourself that made the point that I was just criticising Roddick pretty much for the sake of it, and since you felt the need to use caps locks.

I think the debate here is: Is Andy running away from the competition or fulfilling commitments, which he feels are more important to him, to a tournament that is in the states.

True champions play and succeed everywhere against the best and playing in Houston isn't doing that. The tournament isn't going to go broke, he has paid his debt to the tournament. You see the points then? If you think it's fine for him to hide away in the smaller tournament when he should be out there against the best and don't question that, well well that is truly thinking for yourself. You are making excuses for him not playing against the best competition using he is playing at home line, when there are so many US tournaments.

Action Jackson
04-10-2005, 05:07 PM
I agree. You should question even your favourite players if they make bad decisions. I'm a Rogi fan and I question some bad decisions he's made (which he hasn't yet). But I'm sure I would if he did.

You have to and Federer not playing Monte Carlo wasn't a great choice last year and if he didn't want to do it. He should have played the warm up before that.

It has to be done and not just sugarcoated cause you happen to like the guy.

Billy Moonshine
04-10-2005, 05:12 PM
Okay. Iīm a blinkered silly Roddick fan. This is what your insinuiting right? I dont think thatīs very respectful. notice I havenīt insulted youī. you know why? i donīt know you! youīre just words on a screen.
You are right. Andy should come to MC and please all his critics. He shouldnīt do what he wants. No, how dare he not satisfy the MTF judges. How do you know heīs hiding? Why do you think that? Do you have proof? or is it just hate?
Anyway, Andy keep doing what you think is right. I love you even more for staying in Houston and being true to yourself.
I have to go now and watch Davenport vs. Farina.
Have fun criticising the duck!:)

the cat
04-10-2005, 05:16 PM
It's too soon for Roddick and Agassi to head to Europe for the res clay court season. But I wish Andy was there in Monte Carlo facing his red clay court deamons head on. :tennis: :devil:

Action Jackson
04-10-2005, 05:20 PM
Okay. Iīm a blinkered silly Roddick fan. This is what your insinuiting right? I dont think thatīs very respectful. notice I havenīt insulted youī. you know why? i donīt know you! youīre just words on a screen.

I think you have presented weak points to back up your views pure and simple.

You are right. Andy should come to MC and please all his critics. He shouldnīt do what he wants. No, how dare he not satisfy the MTF judges. How do you know heīs hiding? Why do you think that? Do you have proof? or is it just hate?

It's a TMS event that is reason enough for him to play, but the blinkers might stop you seeing this :) . The reasons have been clearly stated as to why he should be playing against the best players and that is the same in any pro sport. If he was serious about improving on clay against the top players and that is the only way to get better is play against the best, but yes that is just hateful to say that.

NATAS81
04-10-2005, 05:33 PM
It's not like he is a veteran, where he should be going backwards in relation to ability on the surface.

This says it all.

Andy has plenty of time in his career to focus his game for clay. If he chooses not to re-aggrivate an injury now, I'd call that a wise decision.

Bottom line is there's no reason for him to have to play this tournament, but it's always fun crackin' back and watching GWH take forum posters to school.

uNIVERSE mAN
04-10-2005, 05:39 PM
You have to and Federer not playing Monte Carlo wasn't a great choice last year and if he didn't want to do it. He should have played the warm up before that.

It has to be done and not just sugarcoated cause you happen to like the guy.

that was a joke.

Action Jackson
04-10-2005, 05:42 PM
that was a joke.

You mean Roger's choice last year? Not the best was it.

Action Jackson
04-10-2005, 05:43 PM
This says it all.

Andy has plenty of time in his career to focus his game for clay. If he chooses not to re-aggrivate an injury now, I'd call that a wise decision.


One difference seņor. He was well enough to play in the River Oaks exhibition 2 days ago, so the injury isn't the issue. :)

NATAS81
04-10-2005, 05:45 PM
One difference seņor. He was well enough to play in the River Oaks exhibition 2 days ago, so the injury isn't the issue. :)
Is River Oaks clay?

I'm sure people could make that argument about Fish then too as he's snubbed MonteC.

But no, let's go after the top American with the best serve in the game.

Jealous anyone?

And no, Fish isn't injured, just goes to show the biased propaganda that spews this board.

Action Jackson
04-10-2005, 05:48 PM
Is River Oaks clay?

I'm sure people could make that argument about Fish then too as he's snubbed MonteC.

But no, let's go after the top American with the best serve in the game.

Jealous anyone?

Yes, that's in Houston. Jealousy you jest yet again? Who is the # 1 American player? That is right and the TMS events are the biggest ones outside the big 5 and the best players should play at the best events, no jealousy at all, just facts.

Agassi hates Monaco and that has been stated. Vinny Ice has the balls to go there and Fish well he is worse than Roddick on this surface.

uNIVERSE mAN
04-10-2005, 05:49 PM
I have no recollection of the circumstances surrounding that time period last year and why he did not attend, I see by his activity he had about 4 matches in the month leading up to that (3rd round of Miami and 2 DC singles). I do have a vague memory about him complaining of fatigue a lot throughout the year. Perhaps since this was the first year he was really going deep into tournaments week in and week out had contributed to physical as well as mental fatigue.

Since it was his first standout year, and newly crowned #1, he had a lot of outside pressures which he needed time to adjust to. Maybe being conservative throughout the year to avoid burnout. I don't know.

uNIVERSE mAN
04-10-2005, 05:51 PM
But this is a new FedEx, he has game on any surface, there's no comparision with Roddick's reasons. The Duck ducks, Feds doesn't.

nkhera1
04-10-2005, 05:51 PM
Roddick should play to make himself better on clay and get a few matches against good quality opponents, but we can't control what they do. When you guys become tennis stars, then maybe you can play in every event.

ftd999
04-10-2005, 05:52 PM
Of course, coming from relatively poor countries, they want money, so they play. Kafelnikov also played everything. What would this tournament add to Agassi's resume? Nothing. Just like in terms of money. WHat would it give to Roddick? Not much either. They don't need it, they make enough money elsewhere.

I didn't say to play everything, where did that come from? I'm saying play the master's series events. The whole point was to attract all the top players and get them out of their various regions so that the fans can see everyone play.

I already said Agassi should be exempted because of his age and the fact that he's probably at the end of his career. As for what it gives them, it gives them the respect of the fans who want to see them play.

More complete players? :rolls: The most incomplete players among top ranked players.

Maybe you've missed the last few years of tennis. Nadal last week at the Nasdaq, Coria last year at the Nasdaq, Ferrero at the open, and on and on and on (Nalbandian, Gonzalez, and many others have done well on all surfaces). I don't think its necessary to list them all, just look at the rankings.

It is just a joke that it is considered a premiere tournament.

?

It's a premiere tournament because its a masters event and all the top players are supposed to play. It's the fans who pay the salaries of the players. The whole point is to get a few tournaments a year, apart from the slams, where all the top players will play and an increased level of excitement will be generated. And to hold these tournaments in different parts of the world so the fans can see all the top players. To just ignore these events when you're healthy is simply snubbing those fans and the entire concept.

NATAS81
04-10-2005, 05:53 PM
I'm sure Andy's chances of going would have improved if not for this River Oaks exhibition.

He's got alot to look forward too with clay coming up.

He knows this isn't his best surface, so he's warming up with people he knows.

I'm sure if Roddick wanted to play MonteC, he would.

We're opening up a can of worms asking why Roddick who isn't a known clay specialist isn't attending a clay tournament.

Clay TMS isn't within Andy's grasp at this point in time. Anybody who's heard of Penn tennis balls knows that.

Robby isn't well known and any other American outside the top 50 is merely flying under the radar should they play a clay TMS event.

There are many more TMS events upcoming, I'm sure Andrew will get in a few to tune his game for RG.

Action Jackson
04-10-2005, 05:54 PM
But this is a new FedEx, he has game on any surface, there's no comparision with Roddick's reasons. The Duck ducks, Feds doesn't.

I am not sure what his reasons were for not playing, but the 3 TMS clay events is probably right for him going into RG.

uNIVERSE mAN
04-10-2005, 05:55 PM
yeah what ftd999 just said, otherwise we'd have two tours, the american and the rest of the world and considering that the ROTW tournaments can live without a few american players, tennis can't exist in the States if the ROTW players don't show up.

Action Jackson
04-10-2005, 05:56 PM
Roddick should play to make himself better on clay and get a few matches against good quality opponents, but we can't control what they do. When you guys become tennis stars, then maybe you can play in every event.

This has never been about controlling what they do at all, if he doesn't have the will to do it, then he deserves the flak that comes with it.

Neely
04-10-2005, 05:57 PM
I'm glad that Haas pulled out of Monte Carlo. His schedule is already tough enough, he has a win to defend in Houston and it would be too much playing the week after Monte Carlo in USA and then going back to Europe right the next week again. Very good decision IMO, he should take care of his body, he has struggled quite a lot in recent times with little picky injuries or mental problems.

As for Roddick, it certainly makes sense for him that he is playing Houston. It's his tournament and frankly, unless Monte Carlo would be a Slam, he doesn't seem to care too much about not showing up if he can play Houston instead. Why face the risk losing first round to a dangerous claycourt player (and getting no practice at all) if he can also play in Houston where he won/made the finals the last years and he still can stay longer time at home? :yeah: And not to forget, tournaments like Houston live and die by the support of home players.

Action Jackson
04-10-2005, 05:58 PM
yeah what ftd999 just said, otherwise we'd have two tours, the american and the rest of the world and considering that the ROTW tournaments can live without a few american players, tennis can't exist in the States if the ROTW players don't show up.

I don't like the 2 tour idea, but in some ways it's there already. It'll be interesting when a non-American takes over the ATP from that parasite Mark Miles.

uNIVERSE mAN
04-10-2005, 06:01 PM
The USTA has tried dangling money to entice the top international players to come play optional events in the States (USO Series). I doubt it'll work really, players are more comfortable playing optionals in their home continent.

Action Jackson
04-10-2005, 06:01 PM
I'm sure if Roddick wanted to play MonteC, he would.

He is automatically entered due to his ranking.

We're opening up a can of worms asking why Roddick who isn't a known clay specialist isn't attending a clay tournament.

He could always play in a clay challenger. Then again Houston used to be like that.

Robby isn't well known and any other American outside the top 50 is merely flying under the radar should they play a clay TMS event.

He has great comedic value.

There are many more TMS events upcoming, I'm sure Andrew will get in a few to tune his game for RG.

It depends if he withdraws from Hamburg again.

uNIVERSE mAN
04-10-2005, 06:02 PM
That's probably why the United States gets so many TMS events. The ATP knows if they got only two, no one shows up there for huge parts of the year.

Action Jackson
04-10-2005, 06:03 PM
And not to forget, tournaments like Houston live and die by the support of home players.

The name Agassi will sell enough tickets for Houston. With that logic is it Ok for South Americans, the Spaniards to avoid the grass season and not bother with the TMS events in the US after Wimbledon?

Action Jackson
04-10-2005, 06:06 PM
That's probably why the United States gets so many TMS events. The ATP knows if they got only two, no one shows up there for huge parts of the year.

They only have 3 in the US and 1 in Canada, though a TMS should be in Asia in the future.

uNIVERSE mAN
04-10-2005, 06:09 PM
Well Canada is pretty much a bike ride to the US, and they have it as part of the USO Circuit.

Neely
04-10-2005, 06:11 PM
With that logic is it Ok for South Americans, the Spaniards to avoid the grass season and not bother with the TMS events in the US after Wimbledon?
Depends on the situation, if a high-ranked South American would skip a European TMS in order to play an ATP tournament in South America (let alone having the chance playing in his native region) that he won/made the finals/played very well the last year(s) I could see the reasons that he wouldn't like to go from Europe to South America and then back to Europe within a week but would prefer a little bit more rest at the expense of missing a tournament.

Sometimes players get bashed for not playing at home, and sometimes they get bashed for playing at home. As easy as that, they can't make it right for everybody to agree with ;)

Action Jackson
04-10-2005, 06:15 PM
Depends on the situation, if a high-ranked South American would skip a European TMS in order to play an ATP tournament in South America that he won/made the finals/played very well the last year(s) I could see the reasons that he wouldn't like to go from Europe to South America and then back to Europe within a week but would prefer a little bit more rest at the expense of missing a tournament.

Sometimes players get bashed for not playing at home, and sometimes they get bashed for playing at home. As easy as that, they can't make it right for everybody to agree with ;)

That scenario wouldn't happen as the South American events don't even come close to clashing with a Euro TMS event and I did clearly state the dates as to what I was refering to.

There is a difference Roddick playing at home is not the same as say someone like Ivanisevic playing in Croatia, Muster in Austria, Rios in Chile and now Gaudio in Argentina. That really needs to be looked at the ones I mentioned only have small tournaments in their country, whereas the US that isn't the case and the number is much higher as well.

NATAS81
04-10-2005, 06:20 PM
Why aren't there any TMS events in Mexico?

Neely
04-10-2005, 06:23 PM
That scenario wouldn't happen as the South American events don't even come close to clashing with a Euro TMS event and I did clearly state the dates as to what I was refering to.
Exactly, that's why I said "if"

Action Jackson
04-10-2005, 06:28 PM
Exactly, that's why I said "if"

No ifs, the original thing was those guys who hate grass skip those events and 1 or 2 of the hardcourt TMS events in North America would that be alright cause they don't like the surface?

Neely
04-10-2005, 06:36 PM
No ifs, the original thing was those guys who hate grass skip those events and 1 or 2 of the hardcourt TMS events in North America would that be alright cause they don't like the surface?
No, just because not liking the surface wouldn't be okay. But I would understand skipping a tournament if a player preferred to play a smaller event in his native region in that he has done very well the previous years at the expense of TMS (not a Grand Slam) if this helps him to save something like 20 flight hours within 8 days going around half of the world twice in one week.

Billy Moonshine
04-10-2005, 07:27 PM
GWH, you should work for the ATP tour, you are so officious. You could fine Andy loads of money and tell him off. youīd like that I bet!

ktwtennis
04-11-2005, 12:29 AM
Sorry guys, Andy isn't skipping it...He and Lleyton are injured...http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tennis/4431427.stm

basil333
04-11-2005, 01:20 AM
GWH, you should work for the ATP tour, you are so officious. You could fine Andy loads of money and tell him off. youīd like that I bet!

Maybe if GWH DID work for the ATP - it would be a greater organisation...

GWH always talks factual facts and can back up 95% of all his critical posts
with factual information...

and yep - I bet he would enjoy fining and yelling at Andy greatly!!!! :devil: - and if it was televised... WOW! - he wouldn't just stop at Andy....


(Post typed at 2.20am local time... apologies for lack of grammer and sense...)

nkhera1
04-11-2005, 02:32 AM
This has never been about controlling what they do at all, if he doesn't have the will to do it, then he deserves the flak that comes with it.

I agree that he should play in Monte Carlo, but you guys act as if its the end of the world. I think he has a better sense of what to do with himself than we do.

ys
04-11-2005, 02:51 AM
I didn't say to play everything, where did that come from? I'm saying play the master's series events. The whole point was to attract all the top players and get them out of their various regions so that the fans can see everyone play.

It's still their choice, isn't it? Perhaps , it is still not attractive enough..


Maybe you've missed the last few years of tennis. Nadal last week at the Nasdaq, Coria last year at the Nasdaq, Ferrero at the open, and on and on and on (Nalbandian, Gonzalez, and many others have done well on all surfaces). I don't think its necessary to list them all, just look at the rankings.


You didn't mention Ferrero in your original post , did you? Neither did you mention Nalbandian.. And what Nadal or Coria did at hardcourt masters-schmasters is hardly important, especially given that they didn't even win it.. If they are indeed good not only clay, bring those goods to where evereone brings their best - in Slams on those surfaces. When Gaudio, Coria or Nadal make at least hardcourt Slam semis ( I guess, Wimbledon semis is out of question, right ), then we talk about their "completeness". And at this point they are just dirtballers and bumrooters.




It's a premiere tournament because its a masters event and all the top players are supposed to play. It's the fans who pay the salaries of the players. The whole point is to get a few tournaments a year, apart from the slams, where all the top players will play and an increased level of excitement will be generated. And to hold these tournaments in different parts of the world so the fans can see all the top players. To just ignore these events when you're healthy is simply snubbing those fans and the entire concept.

Snubbing wrong concept is an excellent thing to do. Monte Carlo should be stripped of Masters status long time ago.. It's not exactly the tournament attendees who pay salaries of players, of top players, that is.. Agassi or Roddick make much more money off court. And if they feel that this tournament is not worth playing, it is their choice.. I am with them on that.

basil333
04-11-2005, 02:57 AM
========================
Snubbing wrong concept is an excellent thing to do. Monte Carlo should be stripped of Masters status long time ago.. It's not exactly the tournament attendees who pay salaries of players, of top players, that is.. Agassi or Roddick make much more money off court. And if they feel that this tournament is not worth playing, it is their choice.. I am with them on that.
=======================

Hang on... technically Andy and Andre "work" for the ATP - the ATP give the rulings on how the game they make extreme fortunes with is played, therefore, if the ATP say ALL top Players should attend Masters Series tournaments... then... ALL Top Players should attend Masters Series tournaments.... without serious reason for not showing. The Masters Series level is meant to be the creme de la creme of the Tennis World. This is not possible if the creme decides to "go off" and not follow the rules.

ys
04-11-2005, 03:37 AM
Hang on... technically Andy and Andre "work" for the ATP - the ATP give the rulings on how the game they make extreme fortunes with is played, therefore, if the ATP say ALL top Players should attend Masters Series tournaments... then... ALL Top Players should attend Masters Series tournaments.... without serious reason for not showing. The Masters Series level is meant to be the creme de la creme of the Tennis World. This is not possible if the creme decides to "go off" and not follow the rules.

If after that they still skip it.. Then the reasons are not strong enough. Or fines are not serious enough. Everything is business, nothing else. If a worker who works for a company thinks that it is better for him to take a day off , and a company is OK with it, or if the company is not in position to do anything about it, it only means that the existing status quo reflects the business reality. It only means that Agassi and Roddick are more important for ATP than Monte Carlo tournament. For one, WTA didn't think a second before forcing a superstar Capriati to play Moscow ( which she hated to do, btw ) after some top players withdraw from there to honour their commitments to tournament organizers to provide a field of certain strength.

Action Jackson
04-11-2005, 03:40 AM
Sorry guys, Andy isn't skipping it...He and Lleyton are injured...http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tennis/4431427.stm

Hewitt is not the issue here at all and Roddick if he is so injured how come he could play an exhibition a few days ago?

robinhood
04-11-2005, 03:50 AM
Sorry guys, Andy isn't skipping it...He and Lleyton are injured...http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tennis/4431427.stm

I get the impression that Roddick was going to skip MC regardless of injury status. At the post-match interview after he retired with that wrist injury in Miami, he said that he doesn't play until Houston so he has plenty of time to recover. He didn't even mention Monte Carlo.

basil333
04-11-2005, 03:52 AM
If after that they still skip it.. Then the reasons are not strong enough. Or fines are not serious enough. Everything is business, nothing else. If a worker who works for a company thinks that it is better for him to take a day off , and a company is OK with it, or if the company is not in position to do anything about it, it only means that the existing status quo reflects the business reality. It only means that Agassi and Roddick are more important for ATP than Monte Carlo tournament. For one, WTA didn't think a second before forcing a superstar Capriati to play Moscow ( which she hated to do, btw ) after some top players withdraw from there to honour their commitments to tournament organizers to provide a field of certain strength.

I was recently in America for Indian Wells... there was an advert I think for Reebok... it basically showed loads of kids working their butts off... the question was - Big Guys - remember these days??? and the retorical question was - what are you in your sport for .... the Love or the Money...

Americans... please feel free to correct me here...

Unfortunately in Tennis I can see a huge divide in these two categories..

I really do not enjoy watching the "money" guys... the "love" guys really do put their heart into the game... not their bank balance.... one day the money guys are only going to be left with that... and their world will be very cold indeed.

Also... an annoying quote from Andre Agassi... (I witnessed the event personally)

A little kid (about 9) was brave enough to go up to him (on his own) and ask him for his autograph... Agassi said Sorry Kid, NO.. as if I sign for YOU I will have to sign for loads more.... - there were no other kids around... I found it quite heartless.

I then overheard a conversation... Maria Sharapova used exactly the same line to another kid.... Money.....

Neely
04-11-2005, 04:03 AM
I get the impression that Roddick was going to skip MC regardless of injury status. At the post-match interview after he retired with that wrist injury in Miami, he said that he doesn't play until Houston so he has plenty of time to recover. He didn't even mention Monte Carlo.
I also noticed that and I think a lot of people were sure about it that he would even more skip it after his injury because he is playing Houston the following week to avoid travelling stress. Well, from the match against Fish he has a first impression now how his wrist is working and I'm sure one week more off from competitive tennis will do him some good in order not to rush it back too soon. Main thing is that he is playing the French Open, the Grand Slams are what really matter ;) and there is only one clay Grand Slam, but still two more clay TMS ;)

uNIVERSE mAN
04-11-2005, 04:31 AM
Also... an annoying quote from Andre Agassi... (I witnessed the event personally)

A little kid (about 9) was brave enough to go up to him (on his own) and ask him for his autograph... Agassi said Sorry Kid, NO.. as if I sign for YOU I will have to sign for loads more.... - there were no other kids around... I found it quite heartless.

I then overheard a conversation... Maria Sharapova used exactly the same line to another kid.... Money.....


I can't seem to understand what this whole business about getting a signature is. Who gives a shit!

basil333
04-11-2005, 04:33 AM
it was a little kid, its how he treated the little kid that annoyed the hell out of me...

to quote you.... Agassi proved he could not give a shit about the little kid...

Jogy
04-11-2005, 04:34 AM
Very worse that so many Americans not play it.
More worse and very hard to excuse it would be when ohther players skip a Grand Slam (for example in past with some Argentines or Spaniards doing it with Wimbledon, but other players too) and it is not for playing somewhere else.

I have not liked Costa skipping Wimbledon so many times, but he would have needed playing grass tournaments to get a feeling for it. He wanted not and only a 1st round defeat would have been what he would get. He did not care for grass tournament and stayed out.

uNIVERSE mAN
04-11-2005, 04:36 AM
Yeah but I'm sure signing a piece of paper billions of times must get irritating. Maybe they should hand out photocopies instead.

basil333
04-11-2005, 04:41 AM
yeah... there would be respect there too!! - instead of telling the kid he's worthless... - but then again... I really do not think you would understand what I am getting at...

Jogy
04-11-2005, 04:44 AM
it was a little kid, its how he treated the little kid that annoyed the hell out of me...

to quote you.... Agassi proved he could not give a shit about the little kid...
Very sad for the kid this disapointing reallife event :sad:
But not all players can every time fulfill each requests or they would be spending 10 hours a day signing or fulfilling fan requests.
The sad thing is that Agassi seemed to having time at this moment and that was not surounded by a mass of fans when the kid asked him :sad: but it is same with more players so
bad if money is involved and if there are restrcitions who disallow players signing too much

World Beater
04-11-2005, 04:47 AM
it may only be a scribble on a piece of paper, but it means the world to some kids and it doesnt take long. After all the wonderful things life has given andre, you would think scribbling on a piece of paper would be a small price to pay.

On saying this, one should remember than Andre has his foundation in Vegas, so one shouldnt speculate on a small incident like that, when andre has clearly done a fair amount of charity work. The question is, why not more?

tennischick
04-11-2005, 05:17 AM
Andre often stops and signs those pieces of paper. the only times i have seen him leave the court without signing is when he is totally and completely pissed -- and only bec he just got his butt beat by someone he believes should not have beat him. he signs autographs after losing to Fed, just for the record.

in contrast there's the Duck who is a total and complete media suck-up. as long as there's a camera present, he will sign autographs all night. that turns me off.

just goes to show you can't please people :p

Action Jackson
04-11-2005, 05:22 AM
No, just because not liking the surface wouldn't be okay. But I would understand skipping a tournament if a player preferred to play a smaller event in his native region in that he has done very well the previous years at the expense of TMS (not a Grand Slam) if this helps him to save something like 20 flight hours within 8 days going around half of the world twice in one week.

Just making sure I got your position on this clear. So it's alright to player lower level tournaments just because they are at home and conflict with the TMS events.

You don't think there is a difference between Roddick playing at home instead of a TMS event amd players like Ivanisevic playing in Croatia, Muster in Austria, Rios in Chile and now Gaudio in Argentina?

Becarina
04-11-2005, 05:33 AM
Andy SHOULD be playing MC...guess he just forgot :eek: ;)

williaer
04-11-2005, 05:53 AM
in contrast there's the Duck who is a total and complete media suck-up. as long as there's a camera present, he will sign autographs all night. that turns me off.

right... well, you wouldnt see andy give autographs if there wasnt a camera to show it. and, fyi, he often signs autographs after he loses. you can bag a lot about andy, but you cant bag him for signing autographs, which he is doing, out of his own will, to please the fans. compared to some players who dont sign anything regardless of whether they've won or lost

Neely
04-11-2005, 06:11 AM
Just making sure I got your position on this clear. So it's alright to player lower level tournaments just because they are at home and conflict with the TMS events.
All right? No, it's not! But I can see the reasons for that decision. And I couldn't see the reason if Monte Carlo was more isolated and/or if Houston didn't mean anything to Roddick and/or if he hadn't had any success at this venue in the past. So much for Roddick.

And it's not only because the player is Roddick, if another player did the same under similiar circumstances, missing a higher event because of lower one (that he likes to play, that he has a history with, etc.) to avoid travelling around half of the world twice within just one week, I would say the same.

You don't think there is a difference between Roddick playing at home instead of a TMS event amd players like Ivanisevic playing in Croatia, Muster in Austria, Rios in Chile and now Gaudio in Argentina?
There is a difference one would think because Roddick gets the chance to play so many events in the USA and there are/were not many tournaments for Gaudio in Argentina or for Rios in Chile and so on. However, living in Texas for almost a decade during his childhood and having a residence in Texas must have had an impact on Roddick and so Houston is still his backyard tourney and I guess this location (Houston) could be of higher value than playing somewhere else across the US.

That's just my guess, I don't try making up what's going on his mind. It's up to him.

Action Jackson
04-11-2005, 06:13 AM
GWH, you should work for the ATP tour, you are so officious. You could fine Andy loads of money and tell him off. youīd like that I bet!

Not as much as laughing at your arguments.

Action Jackson
04-11-2005, 06:19 AM
All right? No, it's not! But I can see the reasons for that decision. And I couldn't see the reason if Monte Carlo was more isolated and/or if Houston didn't mean anything to Roddick and/or if he hadn't had any success at this venue in the past. So much for Roddick.

Good, so I can use that when some of the guys who hate grass don't bother to turn up to play during this time. Of course the surface and the quality of the opposition isn't in dispute here at all.

And it's not only because the player is Roddick, if another player did the same under similiar circumstances, missing a higher event because of lower one (that he likes to play, that he has a history with, etc.) to avoid travelling around half of the world twice within just one week, I would say the same.

There is a difference one would think because Roddick gets the chance to play so many events in the USA and there are/were not many tournaments for Gaudio in Argentina or for Rios in Chile and so on. However, living in Texas for almost a decade during his childhood and having a residence in Texas must have had an impact on Roddick and so Houston is still his backyard tourney and I guess this location (Houston) could be of higher value than playing somewhere else across the US.

The only reason I bought that point up again is that you missed it the first time and thanks for addressing it. The Houston tournament isn't going to go bankrupt as Agassi will sell the tickets, but when he retires it would be more of an issue. At least we agree it's Ok for top players to play lesser events when there is a TMS on because they are at home when that particular place has enough events located thee.

Becarina
04-11-2005, 06:26 AM
I would think Houston is good for Andy coming off an injury becasue the home crowd here is so supportive. Plus all the girls in texas are HOT... :rolleyes: But I still think he should play MC for the experience and to be prepared. I am mad that he is not playing it. And BMS, you can SUPPORT your favorite, but should question some decisions they make....it is natural.

SanTaureau Fan
04-11-2005, 06:35 AM
That's the only time of a year there's 3 MS preparing for either a Slam or the End of year Championship. So it's sort of "normal" the first one out of the 3 is the one that is being snobbed by American players as it's also almost right after the American tournaments.

I think it's more a scheduling problem, but Americans should make an effort to put MC in their schedule. Like Roddick. But really, Roddick is hopeless on clay, I really doubt playing Monte-Carlo or not would make a difference in long term for his chances in the French Open (which are 0).

Becarina
04-11-2005, 06:39 AM
practise makes perfect ;)

Action Jackson
04-11-2005, 06:41 AM
That's the only time of a year there's 3 MS preparing for either a Slam or the End of year Championship. So it's sort of "normal" the first one out of the 3 is the one that is being snobbed by American players as it's also almost right after the American tournaments.


They have long enough between the end of Miami and the start of Monte Carlo to get their practice in and not many of them went deep into the previous tournament in America.

I think it's more a scheduling problem, but Americans should make an effort to put MC in their schedule. Like Roddick. But really, Roddick is hopeless on clay, I really doubt playing Monte-Carlo or not would make a difference in long term for his chances in the French Open (which are 0).

All true, but as I said before to improve in the weakest areas playing against tougher players helps to do that, better than stagnating.

Neely
04-11-2005, 06:55 AM
Good, so I can use that when some of the guys who hate grass don't bother to turn up to play during this time. Of course the surface and the quality of the opposition isn't in dispute here at all.
What you use is up to you, but if you use this line of argumentation in future I would most likely agree with you on that. Let me also make clear that I don't like it when the best ranked players are missing the biggest events, but I can see the reasons for some of those decisions.

For example, I wouldn't complain too much about Gaudio not playing Wimbledon in 2004, did it before and he had won the French Open last year. I can see the reason. Same for Guga and other French Open winners who were in that situation.

But what about other top ranked players like Rios, Costa, Bruguera, Meligeni who all have quite a year-long history skipping Wimbledon/grass season despite being ranked top 10, top 20, top 30.... what is their excuse, their reason for not having played a Grand Slam? Because they don't like the surface and they preferred to stay away not playing at all, doing "nothing" at the same time? Because they were injured every year they skipped it? Or did Rios (for example) pull out of Wimbledon because he played a tournament in Chile the week right before or the week right after Wimbledon?

If the two latter questions were answered with "yes", I could endorse their missings at Wimbledon even though I still would like to see them to participate. If not, staying a away from a tournament like a Grand Slam is quite hard to excuse.

Action Jackson
04-11-2005, 07:05 AM
What you use is up to you, but if you use this line of argumentation in future I would most likely agree with you on that. Let me also make clear that I don't like it when the best ranked players are missing the biggest events, but I can see the reasons for some of those decisions.

There are reasons for many decisions that are made and good I can get ready to play the apologist role during the grasscourt season.

For example, I wouldn't complain too much about Gaudio not playing Wimbledon in 2004, did it before and he had won the French Open last year. I can see the reason. Same for Guga and other French Open winners who were in that situation.

Considering they played Wimbledon before and Gaudio had a legit reason, though the surface would be a factor as well. Guga and others well theirs was a protest at seedings and whether I agree with that or not isn't important.

But what about other top ranked players like Rios, Costa, Bruguera, Meligeni who all have quite a year-long history skipping Wimbledon/grass season despite being ranked top 10, top 20, top 30.... what is their excuse, their reason for not having played a Grand Slam? Because they don't like the surface and they preferred to stay away not playing at all, doing "nothing" at the same time?

Costa was part of the seeding group and those guys have played at Wimbledon before and if you read what I said earlier about those guys skipping Wimbledon, then you'd know my stance at this issue.

Because they were injured every year they skipped it? Or did Rios (for example) pull out of Wimbledon because he played a tournament in Chile the week right before or the week right after Wimbledon?

When was there a tournament played in Chile before or after Wimbledon? Could you find the year of that alleged happening please.

Neely
04-11-2005, 07:29 AM
When was there a tournament played in Chile before or after Wimbledon? Could you find the year of that alleged happening please.
Of course there was none, that's the point and that's why Rios (and others) wasn't (weren't) in the same position as I could see it with Roddick, for example, at the moment, let alone that we're speaking about skipping a Grand Slam in above mentioned cases.

For some missings there is an explanation or a reason different to "I just don't like the court" which for example made Roddick pulling out of Monte Carlo, but I can't see that every time for every player and such missings are those which I wouldn't endorse; not in a Masters and even less if it's a Grand Slam.

Action Jackson
04-11-2005, 07:42 AM
Of course there was none, that's the point and that's why Rios (and others) wasn't (weren't) in the same position as I could see it with Roddick, for example, at the moment, let alone that we're speaking about skipping a Grand Slam in above mentioned cases.

They could never be in the same situation mainly because of how the calendar is worked out. No, I don't condone missing Slams at all.

For some missings there is an explanation or a reason different to "I just don't like the court" which for example made Roddick pulling out of Monte Carlo, but I can't see that every time for every player and such missings are those which I wouldn't endorse; not in a Masters and even less if it's a Grand Slam.

If it was a player you didn't like I doubt whether you'd be so forgiving.

Becarina
04-11-2005, 07:45 AM
A-Rod needs to play all he can right now. I had high hopes for him this year but it is not coming out so well so far. He needs to get his crap together and start whooping some Fed-ass. ;)

Action Jackson
04-11-2005, 07:47 AM
A-Rod needs to play all he can right now. I had high hopes for him this year but it is not coming out so well so far. He needs to get his crap together and start whooping some Fed-ass. ;)

Stop dreaming he had plenty of problems beating Federer when he is playing well and it's Federer that has improved and not the Duck, then again you "seriously" believe Roddick will win RG. If he does that then there will be a Felix Mantilla and Oscar Hernandez Wimbedon final.

Billy Moonshine
04-11-2005, 07:48 AM
GWH, your arguments arenīt so hot as you think they are. You just keep ranting the same old lines.
Maybe my arguments are weak. But i donīt think you could even tell me what they are because you donīt actually read them.
good luck Andy in Houston!

Becarina
04-11-2005, 07:52 AM
Stop dreaming he had plenty of problems beating Federer when he is playing well and it's Federer that has improved and not the Duck, then again you "seriously" believe Roddick will win RG. If he does that then there will be a Felix Mantilla and Oscar Hernandez Wimbedon final.

Oh stop...I don't think he will win RG, but he has a shot just like everyone else. I just think that if he beat the Fed just once, he would be in a good place. I like to think of andy as my child, I would love for him to succeed and will tell him when he is wrong. Maybe not my child as that would be weird, but anyway you get the point, I think

Becarina
04-11-2005, 07:54 AM
Stop dreaming he had plenty of problems beating Federer when he is playing well and it's Federer that has improved and not the Duck, then again you "seriously" believe Roddick will win RG. If he does that then there will be a Felix Mantilla and Oscar Hernandez Wimbedon final.


Felix and Oscar, hell yeah! ;)

Action Jackson
04-11-2005, 07:54 AM
GWH, your arguments arenīt so hot as you think they are. You just keep ranting the same old lines.
Maybe my arguments are weak. But i donīt think you could even tell me what they are because you donīt actually read them.
good luck Andy in Houston!

Neely has different viewpoints and explains them very well and backs her points up an essential difference from what you have shown in this issue.

Considering I read everything, cause if I didn't then I'd have you on ignore. Have you noticed that there are Roddick fans who question certain decisions? That doesn't make them less of a fan.

Becarina
04-11-2005, 07:55 AM
GW- I think some time you should lighten up. Who is your favorite player by the way?

Action Jackson
04-11-2005, 07:55 AM
Felix and Oscar, hell yeah! ;)

You mean it's maternal with Andy and that final would be very funny.

Neely
04-11-2005, 07:57 AM
If it was a player you didn't like I doubt whether you'd be so forgiving.
LOL, okay, it's your right to doubt that :p ...but please give me credit that I have done lots of other things than critizising/complaining about players not playing here and there ;)

---------

And finally, for the record, let's sum up that we both don't like skipping players big events. Just for the sake of agreeing at least on something :cool:

Action Jackson
04-11-2005, 08:00 AM
LOL, okay, it's your right to doubt that :p ...but please give me credit that I have done lots of other things than complaining about players not playing here and there ;)

Of course you have and as I said before you back up your own viewpoints on all different subjects very well and that is all anyone can ask.

---------

And finally, for the record, let's sum up that we both don't like skipping players big events. Just for the sake of agreeing at least on something :cool:

Memorable moments indeed.

Becarina
04-11-2005, 08:00 AM
You mean it's maternal with Andy and that final would be very funny.

felix and oscar...the odd couple tv show...that struck me as funny. I just want Andy to succeed and as any fan would say, if he got his crap together that would happen.

Action Jackson
04-11-2005, 08:02 AM
felix and oscar...the odd couple tv show...that struck me as funny. I just want Andy to succeed and as any fan would say, if he got his crap together that would happen.

I didn't even realise the link to the TV show, but the English commentators would make bad puns out of that.

Got to play the best to be the best and if someone isn't taking the right steps to get the best out of themselves then it has to be questioned.

Billy Moonshine
04-11-2005, 08:03 AM
GWH, I have said more or less the same things as Neely, that Andy would prefer to play in Houston because itīs his tournament. What else do i need to say to back this up? itīs not really a revelation!
Well when it comes to tennis, Andyīs better than both of us and so i respect his decision. Who am I to question him? And who are you to preach about what a true champion is? Isnīt Andy a tennis champ? Us open champ and year end number 1 2003!!!

Becarina
04-11-2005, 08:06 AM
I didn't even realise the link to the TV show, but the English commentators would make bad puns out of that.

Got to play the best to be the best and if someone isn't taking the right steps to get the best out of themselves then it has to be questioned.

;)

And he is not...I get it. It angers me that he is not playing to his potential. The way he is playing now, I think he just needs to play eveything he can get into...top 5 or not, he is letting it slip.

oz_boz
04-11-2005, 08:37 AM
It's obvious that Roddick has yet to prove his ability on clay, and that Monte Carlo is more prestigious than Houston. Therefore, he would gain more respect with a try in MC than in Houston. On the other hand, to improve one's mental strength in the long run is a delicate balance between choosing easier tasks and really challenging oneself. Considering ARod's problems with Fed and Hewitt lately, he may need some lesser tournaments to gain confidence.

Billy Moonshine
04-11-2005, 09:16 AM
Why is Andy bothered about getting respect?
He has it from enough people, donīt worry about that!
I can see the arguments for him playing MC. It is the best tounament that week, a TMS and all top players should play. He will be challenged. But proving himself? To who? Andy only has to prove things to himself.
I can also see why he chose not to go. First, it isnīt logistical. Second, He really wants to play in Houston. His reasons? I can only speculate however I imagine they involve his good history at the tournament and that he feels he has more of a chance of getting more matchplay and that he feels some tie to Houston because he lived there. Sentimental maybe but understandable.
Two different sides. Both could be right. We will find out in time. But why do people in this forum have to shout out their own opinions and not respect others? This is a forum after all and we should be able to say what we feel without having it torn to shreds like it actually matters!
Thats enough whining and defensiveness from me. I look forward to andyīs stellar, improved 2005 game :)

syd
04-11-2005, 09:34 AM
First, it isnīt logistical. Second, He really wants to play in Houston. His reasons? I can only speculate however I imagine they involve his good history at the tournament and that he feels he has more of a chance of getting more matchplay and that he feels some tie to Houston because he lived there. Sentimental maybe but understandable.
Right, but Andy often avoids big tournaments, and for the player he is, he should more challenge himself (even if he knows he don't play well on clay). i can understand he wants to play in US (he is at home), but tennis isn't playing only in US.
The spaniard, argentine,...top players dislike grass but they try to do their best in those surfaces.

oz_boz
04-11-2005, 09:44 AM
Why is Andy bothered about getting respect?
He has it from enough people, donīt worry about that!


Of course Andy is well respected, by me too btw. I guess Andy really wants to become #1 again, and that his decision to play Houston comes from that urge - together with him wanting to show his appreciation for his fans there.

But to earn the respect of a #1 you need more than just playing tournaments where your chance of success is almost guaranteed. If Andy wants to prove worthy of his status as a top of the top player, I think he should take part in MC. And I think he will, eventually.

If you really like a player, you should hope for him to challenge himself. I'd rather see Pim-Pim trying hard and being taken out in the 1st round of MC than beating a bunch of ranked 50 somethings on his home ground. I think ARod agrees with me on this, but he knows that he isn't up for MC - yet.

FrogBurger
04-11-2005, 10:47 AM
Yes i think they have been doing this for years. Im not sure why though

sigmagirl91
04-11-2005, 10:48 AM
GW- I think some time you should lighten up. Who is your favorite player by the way?

I think it's pretty obvious, his being a forum umpire and all.

jasmine(usa)
04-11-2005, 04:48 PM
One of the things Andy wants is to get more Americans involved in tennis. He can't do that when he's in MC. We need him here in America to promote tennis. I agree that he should play in a master's event, but his reasons for staying at home are sufficient enough for me, as a fan, to forgive his absence.

As for RG, I hope he does well, but I'll be too busy cheering for the defending champion.:)

tennischick
04-11-2005, 05:01 PM
One of the things Andy wants is to get more Americans involved in tennis. He can't do that when he's in MC. We need him here in America to promote tennis. I agree that he should play in a master's event, but his reasons for staying at home are sufficient enough for me, as a fan, to forgive his absence.

this is the most creative defense yet...stupid, but creative. :o

mandoura
04-11-2005, 05:06 PM
this is the most creative defense yet...stupid, but creative. :o


:haha: :haha:

Angle Queen
04-11-2005, 05:19 PM
Said it elsewhere so I might as well repeat it here. I think the Amercian absence in MC is more of a 'concession' rather than a 'snub.' It's a shame, or rather...a sham.

But I also say shame on the ATP for sanctioning a tournament that's allowed to call itself the US Men's Clay Court Championship...and then not expect the top American talent to appear. Doing MC too would entail a bipolar, there-here-there transcontinental expedition. Unrealistic.

As it is, ESPN offers us a paltry 30-minute highlight of the MC event...at 3:30 in the morning after all is said and done. And absolutely no coverage of Houston. :rolleyes:

Clay of any color, is just not on the American Tennis radar. I doubt we'd even get RG coverage if it weren't part of a larger GS package.

Neely
04-11-2005, 05:22 PM
Okay, Spadea eats a bagel and is done getting 5 games in 80 minutes against Stepanek. That's it.

alfonsojose
04-11-2005, 05:29 PM
:shrug: Cousin Vinnie was spanked by Jude Law

Neely
04-11-2005, 05:37 PM
:shrug: Cousin Vinnie was spanked by Jude Law
But at least he got his 80 minute practice against Stepanek in a big European claycourt tournament ;) He maybe can live on this experience and maybe this will make him better on clay in future, better than having played in Houston. :angel:

alfonsojose
04-11-2005, 06:11 PM
But at least he got his 80 minute practice against Stepanek in a big European claycourt tournament ;) He maybe can live on this experience and maybe this will make him better on clay in future, better than having played in Houston. :angel:
:confused: i agree

jasmine(usa)
04-11-2005, 06:42 PM
this is the most creative defense yet...stupid, but creative. :oWell, how can that be creative when I didn't make it up? I knew my comment would get a negative response, but it's a little rude to say someone's comments are stupid. I guess that's why I don't post in GM much. Too much:bs: to put up with.

sweetiepiedoll
04-11-2005, 06:51 PM
Personally, I don't see what the big deal is all about. If Andy doesn't want to play Monte-Carlo, so what?? I think that maybe Andy is going to lay low during the clay season and save his energy for the short grass season. I think that Andy really wants to win the Wimbledon that he almost had won last year - even if this means beating Fed along the way to the final or in the final. I think that he will probably take the clay season more serious when the times comes. Andy may play in Germany & in Rome and then again he may not. He probably wants to improve on his last year result at the French, but I don't think is concern about winning it right now (unless gets to the semis then he will contest for the title), but like I said before I think that Andy wants to make sure his mind and body is ready for Wimbledon and for Federer who will be seeking his 3rd consective title. Also, I think that Andre should play MC & Hamburg because these are the only two TMS titltes that he doesn't have and I wanted him to win these titles before he retires (but perhaps Fed will be the one to do the grand slam in TMS titles). I also think that Federer should not play so much because I have a strange feeling that he is going to lose early at French again because he may be too burnt out.

In_Disguise
04-11-2005, 07:07 PM
Agassi has nothing to prove on clay (or in tennis for that matter) - remember he's a former RG champion and 3 time finalists. His RG record is actually one of the best in the modern era, not even the great Thomas Muster's record could match Agassi in paris

mandoura
04-12-2005, 12:11 AM
Well, how can that be creative when I didn't make it up? I knew my comment would get a negative response, but it's a little rude to say someone's comments are stupid. I guess that's why I don't post in GM much. Too much:bs: to put up with.

You are right Jas and I am sorry for laughing about it. :hug:

Ryan
04-12-2005, 12:16 AM
*yawn* When there are two events in one week, people choose different ones. Playing in a different continent on their least favorite surface is not an ideal choice for Americans now. Houston is practically the only US Claycourt event, so why not play it now? Really, Roddick/other Americans will get more matches in realistically which IMO is better now than losing early in MC. Definately once the clay season progresses it will be imperative for them to get comfortable on clay in prep. for RG, but it's not that big a deal if they choose to not play Monte Carlo.

jasmine(usa)
04-12-2005, 12:26 AM
You are right Jas and I am sorry for laughing about it. :hug:That's ok ,sweetie. Nothing to apologize about. I like TC, she has a right to post her opinion. :hug: I was just a little mad at the 'stupid' part.

mandoura
04-12-2005, 12:32 AM
That's ok ,sweetie. Nothing to apologize about. I like TC, she has a right to post her opinion. :hug: I was just a little mad at the 'stupid' part.

Ok Jas. But I didn't think it will upset you that much. I like TC too and did not think she meant it literally. :)

The funny part is I think any player has the right to play wherever he wishes. I think Ryan, one post back, explains it quite well. :)

Anyway, I am glad you are happy again. :hug: :smooch:

Action Jackson
04-12-2005, 05:42 AM
GWH, I have said more or less the same things as Neely, that Andy would prefer to play in Houston because itīs his tournament. What else do i need to say to back this up? itīs not really a revelation!

You don't understand that I don't care what your view is and I even care less than you do. To be honest nothing on this forum matters inclusive of everything.

Well when it comes to tennis, Andyīs better than both of us and so i respect his decision. Who am I to question him? And who are you to preach about what a true champion is? Isnīt Andy a tennis champ? Us open champ and year end number 1 2003!!!

He isn't number 1 now is he? 2003 is ancient history and as oz_boz said to get true respect as a top player then they have to play everywhere against the best opposition on all surfaces, irrespective of whether they like them or not.

That doesn't need a degree in astrophysics or nuclear science to realise that, but as long as you are happy with him staying away and not challenging himself, then that's your choice.

Becarina
04-12-2005, 07:42 AM
From todays Houston Chronicle:

Hard Server, Frequent Flier

Note that Andy Roddick has withdrawn from the Monte Carlo field for the second year in a row. Last year he was exhausted, having just reached the US Clay Court Final after flying in from a victorious Davis Cup matchup with Sweden. This year, he has been rehabilitating a sprained wrist and trying to prepare for the Clay Court event at Westside Tennis Club.

After the exhibition with Mardy Fish on Thursday night at River Oaks, he pronounced the wrist recovered but later concluded -wisely- that a dash to europe wasn't in his best interests.

Perhaps Roddick is learning to pace himself better. In 2004, according to the ATP's Duece magazine, he flew 106,000 miles, visiting four continents, 10 countries and 12 states. But Roddick did pick up $2.6 million (about $24 per mile) for his trouble and no telling how many frequent-flier miles.

euroka1
04-12-2005, 09:05 AM
That doesn't need a degree in astrophysics or nuclear science to realise that, but as long as you are happy with him staying away and not challenging himself, then that's your choice.

I have a degree in astrophysics and let me tell you it gives me some pretty unusual insights. I've concluded that, unlike the universe, but like the rest of we mere mortals, Andy is getting old and just slowing down.

oz_boz
04-12-2005, 09:51 AM
If you really like a player, you should hope for him to challenge himself. I'd rather see Pim-Pim trying hard and being taken out in the 1st round of MC than beating a bunch of ranked 50 somethings on his home ground.

Guess who was beaten by Mantilla yesterday!?

Billy Moonshine
04-12-2005, 10:06 AM
īīYou don't understand that I don't care what your view is īī

GWH! You are so mean! Why do you tear it to shreds and belittle it then? :)
BTW, I think other more articulate posters have defended Andyīs decision very well, esp the post by Andyīs Girl a few posts up.

bad gambler
04-12-2005, 11:02 AM
end of the day it the american players have to look after number 1, so go to respect any decision they make

they have skipped monte carlo, so be it

Angle Queen
04-12-2005, 11:58 AM
...Andy is getting old and just slowing down.:lol: If he's 'old' at 22, I must be ancient.

bad gambler
04-12-2005, 12:02 PM
:lol: If he's 'old' at 22, I must be ancient.


AQ can I call you nanna? :p

RogiFan88
04-12-2005, 03:04 PM
spadea could have saved himself the airfare/hotel/meals by snubbing MC

David Kenzie
04-12-2005, 06:49 PM
He still earns €7,430 for loosing in the first round ;)

NATAS81
04-12-2005, 07:02 PM
Guess who was beaten by Mantilla yesterday!?
Experience is the best teacher.

Turkeyballs Paco
04-12-2005, 08:53 PM
You don't understand that I don't care what your view is and I even care less than you do. To be honest nothing on this forum matters inclusive of everything.



He isn't number 1 now is he? 2003 is ancient history and as oz_boz said to get true respect as a top player then they have to play everywhere against the best opposition on all surfaces, irrespective of whether they like them or not.

That doesn't need a degree in astrophysics or nuclear science to realise that, but as long as you are happy with him staying away and not challenging himself, then that's your choice.

boring, and stupid.

why don't you put your fingers in your ears and say "lalalalalalalalala" until everyone shuts up and you win the argument? you don't even need to be a rocket scientist to do that.

Tennis Fool
04-14-2005, 04:37 AM
Sorry if this has been posted, but Tennis-X has put the Americans in the "trunk list" this week.

. American Top Men
Avoid Monte Carlo and playing in the dirt with the Euro grinders.

Becarina
04-14-2005, 07:17 AM
boring, and stupid.

why don't you put your fingers in your ears and say "lalalalalalalalala" until everyone shuts up and you win the argument? you don't even need to be a rocket scientist to do that.


kinda rude...he normally has pretty good arguements or statements...

Turkeyballs Paco
04-14-2005, 02:05 PM
yeah, that was rude. :devil: I really don't mind GWH.

Hey! If we could ALL be allowed to be rude sometimes, wouldn't that be great?

TheMightyFed
04-14-2005, 02:16 PM
Anyway we all know that skipping Monte-Carlo and best clay court events will prevent Roddick from being a real great, he will remain a tier 2 guy...

ys
04-15-2005, 12:38 AM
Today's quote from Coria: "This is the objective of this season, to reach the French Open 100% physically and tennistically. It's a great tournament. Every player dreams of winning a Grand Slam , and I'm trying to be prepared to achieve my dream."

Clear and simple. Monte-Carlo is just a part of preparation to RG, nothing else. And RG is a "dream". If Americans feel like better preparing elsewhere, that's their right, because the only thing that really matters in clay tennis is Roland Garros.

Daniel
04-15-2005, 12:53 AM
Today's quote from Coria: "This is the objective of this season, to reach the French Open 100% physically and tennistically. It's a great tournament. Every player dreams of winning a Grand Slam , and I'm trying to be prepared to achieve my dream."

Clear and simple. Monte-Carlo is just a part of preparation to RG, nothing else. And RG is a "dream". If Americans feel like better preparing elsewhere, that's their right, because the only thing that really matters in clay tennis is Roland Garros.

Nice to read he want to win RG but last year was his best chance to win it.

WyveN
04-15-2005, 05:38 AM
Clear and simple. Monte-Carlo is just a part of preparation to RG, nothing else. And RG is a "dream".


I dont think anyone doubts Coria wants to win RG more then Monte Carlo


If Americans feel like better preparing elsewhere, that's their right, because the only thing that really matters in clay tennis is Roland Garros.

To be properly prepared for the FO you play the masters series, particularly Monte Carlo which has the closest conditions to RG. Just like to prepare properly for Wimbledon you play Queens or Halle rather then Nottingham.

Action Jackson
04-15-2005, 05:45 AM
ys, one of the few things you have ever said that has made sense that the Slams are what truly count.

Monte Carlo has produced the most Roland Garros winners and the most finalists of the TMS lead up events as it has the closest conditions as to experienced at RG. Obviously it's not a prerequisite to play there for RG success, but it definitely helps and these TMS events are the best preparation for peaking at that time.

NATAS81
04-15-2005, 05:55 AM
MC was 60 F most of yesterday. Conditions favoring a Safin, but yet again he tanks.

Rogiman
04-15-2005, 08:39 AM
Okay folks, so far the tournament has unfolded beautifuly, as far as I'm concerned the americans could all stay in their Jacuzzi, have a fart and imagine they're in a jet-boat. :)

Action Jackson
04-15-2005, 08:50 AM
Okay folks, so far the tournament has unfolded beautifuly, as far as I'm concerned the americans could all stay in their Jacuzzi, have a fart and imagine they're in a jet-boat. :)

Come on Fish and Ginepri on clay provides some great comedy relief.

Deivid23
04-15-2005, 08:53 AM
As a fan, I really donīt care theyīre not in MC.

As a gambler, itīs a pity they arenīt there.

Neely
04-15-2005, 08:55 AM
As a gambler, itīs a pity they arenīt there.
The matches that had them involved wouldn't give you good odds anyway :p

Action Jackson
04-15-2005, 08:55 AM
As a fan, I really donīt care theyīre not in MC.

As a gambler, itīs a pity they arenīt there.

You got RG to get some good winnings. :)