Why are non Federer fans.... [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Why are non Federer fans....

Federerhingis
03-27-2005, 08:54 AM
So bitter, I mean whats wrong about posting about the best player in the world? Yeah I mean posting about every win he makes may be getting carried away a bit, but so what, whats so bad about gloating a bit, As long as you are not hating on another player its ok. Nonetheless I do believe its quite impressive and a good sign for Federer for beating Rochus so convingcingly, Rochus is a very tricky player, hes given Safin quite a few nightmares, hes got a very solid game even for his size hes quite a good player. Yes maybe Fed had an edge since he knew his ex doubles partners game quite well one would suppose but still a good sign for this tournie, at least I hope he makes at least the semis.

PaulieM
03-30-2005, 10:23 PM
you read my mind, i posted this a little earlier in another thread.
hi
hope rogi does well tomorrow. i'm getting very frustrated with all the stupid people in this board that root against him no matter who he's playing even if it's not their fave. if it was their fave doing well they wouldn't complain. i know there's nothing that i can do about it but it frustrates me. some people are just being really mean spirited, it's not his fault that he is a wonderful player, and if he started to tank matches and stuff people would have tons to say about it. it seems he really can't win with some people, why can't they appreciate rogi and all the great things he's doing for tennis whew i just needed to vent a little bit. how is everyone doing around here?

RogiFan88
03-30-2005, 10:54 PM
Considering how many Fed-haters there are in this forum, there certainly are a lot of threads about him in GM, mostly started by them, I may add! ;)

What a joke... THEY are the ones w the obsession, NOT the Fed fans!!! Hee hee hee! They can't stop talking about him... just fun, mostly. Stay out of the vicious threads...

Sjengster
03-30-2005, 11:57 PM
Overkill, it's as simple as that. A few too many Federer-Hewitt finals combined with gushing commentary have started to grate on people's nerves. It's an awkward situation because Federer didn't win the first Slam of the year, hence he has not had the best start to the year, and yet he's still the one consistently winning and dominating the tour while Safin is continuing to bomb out of tournaments he doesn't like playing. I think there will be fewer demands for Federer's head once we get onto clay, posters should be sensible enough to realise that there are more than enough players who can and will beat him on that surface without the need for any further encouragement.

It isn't helped when you get people like Dirk coming into the Federer-Henman prediction thread on GM and following up my post about the match with "Sjengster, why are you rooting for Tim when he has no chance to win this event?" That sums up all the arrogance and dismissal of other players that people are attributing to Federer fans, even though I agree that most of the objectionable comments come from bandwagon merchants and trolls rather than the truly committed Federer fans in this forum.

vene
03-31-2005, 01:12 AM
Anybody remember when there were 2 pages of posts about Roddick? - and there is less in his game to talk about- of course I am a Federer fan, so I am biased :)

Sjengster
03-31-2005, 01:17 AM
Ah, but there IS a lot more to criticise in Roddick's game than in Federer's - and the old rule that it's harder to talk about something you like than something you don't certainly applies to MTF. Discussions on Federer's game will inevitably fall short after a while since there is so little that has to be improved (there is enough, mind you, if he's to achieve on clay what he has on faster surfaces), but treatises on the shortcomings of the Roddick game can last pages and pages, with some intelligent points being made amid the cheap shots and feeble trolling. That's why Federer threads end up complaining about his domination and Roddick threads end up critiquing his game - the negative always provides the talking point.

RogiFan88
03-31-2005, 01:25 AM
Overkill, it's as simple as that. A few too many Federer-Hewitt finals combined with gushing commentary have started to grate on people's nerves. It's an awkward situation because Federer didn't win the first Slam of the year, hence he has not had the best start to the year, and yet he's still the one consistently winning and dominating the tour while Safin is continuing to bomb out of tournaments he doesn't like playing. I think there will be fewer demands for Federer's head once we get onto clay, posters should be sensible enough to realise that there are more than enough players who can and will beat him on that surface without the need for any further encouragement.

It isn't helped when you get people like Dirk coming into the Federer-Henman prediction thread on GM and following up my post about the match with "Sjengster, why are you rooting for Tim when he has no chance to win this event?" That sums up all the arrogance and dismissal of other players that people are attributing to Federer fans, even though I agree that most of the objectionable comments come from bandwagon merchants and trolls rather than the truly committed Federer fans in this forum.

Yes, Sjengst, I did see Dirk's post but not worth replying to it... well put, anyway! And you know I'm getting a bit bored seeing Rogi/Lleyt finals also... I almost feel sorry for Lleyt cos he does work so hard and try to win but without success... he's reached his peak I think [I feel the same way about Pandy too... no, actually, I think HE is digressing somewhat... ]. :p

So, you'll be cheering for Timbledon and I'll cheer for Rogi tomorrow since I am cheated of coverage yet again :rolleyes: Since Tim is one of the few guys who has a favourable h-t-h vs. Rogi, he can certainly win tomorrow. It all depends on Rogi I feel. And IF Rogi has to lose to someone, Tim is one of the few players I allow to beat Rogi [along w Marat, but he's already done that, Juanqui (in my dreams) and even Rafa!]...

That said, HOPP, ROGI!! A nice quick straight-sets win w not go amiss! ;)

Sjengster
03-31-2005, 01:37 AM
First and foremost I'm hoping for Henman to make it tight, I went into that US Open match last year with high hopes that he wasn't going to go down without a fight and when it became clear he had no chance of winning, I just wanted him to grab a set and keep Federer out there for a bit. Realistically, there are only two possible outcomes: Henman wins a close match or Federer wins easily. But, it's hard to say when we don't know for sure what respective levels the two of them are going to produce. The surface certainly favours Federer, even if it is a day match where the ball flies a bit more.

But hey, if Federer wins I'll still root for him during the rest of the tournament - especially if he's facing Miami Metronome Agassi in the semis.

vene
03-31-2005, 02:11 AM
Ah, but there IS a lot more to criticise in Roddick's game than in Federer's - and the old rule that it's harder to talk about something you like than something you don't certainly applies to MTF. Discussions on Federer's game will inevitably fall short after a while since there is so little that has to be improved (there is enough, mind you, if he's to achieve on clay what he has on faster surfaces), but treatises on the shortcomings of the Roddick game can last pages and pages, with some intelligent points being made amid the cheap shots and feeble trolling. That's why Federer threads end up complaining about his domination and Roddick threads end up critiquing his game - the negative always provides the talking point.
I get your point, but like I said I am biased- I spend a lot of time on Roger stuff when I should be working :). I could watch and read about Roger all day.
I also hope for a good match with Henman tomorrow. It could be a bit tight, Rogi has not been playing too well lately.

RogiFan88
03-31-2005, 03:27 AM
First and foremost I'm hoping for Henman to make it tight, I went into that US Open match last year with high hopes that he wasn't going to go down without a fight and when it became clear he had no chance of winning, I just wanted him to grab a set and keep Federer out there for a bit. Realistically, there are only two possible outcomes: Henman wins a close match or Federer wins easily. But, it's hard to say when we don't know for sure what respective levels the two of them are going to produce. The surface certainly favours Federer, even if it is a day match where the ball flies a bit more.

But hey, if Federer wins I'll still root for him during the rest of the tournament - especially if he's facing Miami Metronome Agassi in the semis.

:p :haha: The Miami Metronome... or just gnome!! and someone calls Rogi a machine... ;)

SUKTUEN
03-31-2005, 03:48 AM
please be o Rogerr fans~~ :worship:

Mrs. B
03-31-2005, 07:22 AM
bandwagon merchants and trolls
:haha:

:yeah:

Action Jackson
03-31-2005, 07:28 AM
Ah, but there IS a lot more to criticise in Roddick's game than in Federer's - and the old rule that it's harder to talk about something you like than something you don't certainly applies to MTF. Discussions on Federer's game will inevitably fall short after a while since there is so little that has to be improved (there is enough, mind you, if he's to achieve on clay what he has on faster surfaces), but treatises on the shortcomings of the Roddick game can last pages and pages, with some intelligent points being made amid the cheap shots and feeble trolling. That's why Federer threads end up complaining about his domination and Roddick threads end up critiquing his game - the negative always provides the talking point.

That is very true and there are so many bandwagon jumpers in this case. It's like they have been watching tennis for 10 mins and are instant experts.

People do become bored with domination though not if it was their favourite players. Arrogant fans are everywhere and there seems to be a few more on the Federer bandwagon than there used to be, that happens when there is more success.

Dirk
03-31-2005, 07:57 AM
It isn't helped when you get people like Dirk coming into the Federer-Henman prediction thread on GM and following up my post about the match with "Sjengster, why are you rooting for Tim when he has no chance to win this event?" That sums up all the arrogance and dismissal of other players that people are attributing to Federer fans, even though I agree that most of the objectionable comments come from bandwagon merchants and trolls rather than the truly committed Federer fans in this forum.

Ah come on Sjengster give me a break. :sad: You know that maybe I could have written it another way but it's the truth. I know you like both but just was wondering why you would pick someone who really has a slim chance to win it over someone you do like who has a great chance to win the event. Don't get so riled up by the truth. I didn't mean any harm in it. I am not a troll but just a very confident Federer fan. I've been the way for years.

Puschkin
03-31-2005, 08:31 AM
I think there are two types of Federer-fans:

The first group which I'd rather call worshippers, like everthing he ever does and says. They call him cute, the best looking man on earth and other blablabla.

The second group consists of people who like Roger for his tennis which IS exceptional. This does not mean that all others are crap or that Roger is invincible, but it is a fact that he has been ahead of the rest for quite some time. Look at the stats, numbers don't lie. And he is not to blame for the fact that no other player can challenge him consistently (for the time being). As somebody says it brilliantly in his/her signature: Don't envy, compete.

And there may be people who fall into both groups ;) .

I personally like Roger's tennis because he makes it look easy, this has been said often, nevertheless it remains a truth. Furthermore, it is a combination of elegance, power and a "sense" for the game which appeals to me more than pure power tennis or running down everything, but this a matter of taste.

Action Jackson
03-31-2005, 09:06 AM
And there may be people who fall into both groups ;) .

Yourself being one of them. Then there are the others who can't accept defeat and there are lot of them around.

Puschkin
03-31-2005, 09:31 AM
Yourself being one of them.


If you say so ;) . I tend to forget that you are the only owner of truth, no offence, though :wavey:

Action Jackson
03-31-2005, 09:40 AM
If you say so ;) . I tend to forget that you are the only owner of truth, no offence, though :wavey:

Yes, that's right you know I am an autocrat. Whether you like it or not there are many Fed fans who can't accept defeat and that goes for the ones I like as well.

Call it what you want pigeheadedness, stubborness, arrogance or whatever, there are fans of tennis who can step back and admire his game and other things he brings to it without fawning or having to make excuses for the losses he has.

Puschkin
03-31-2005, 10:10 AM
Yes, that's right you know I am an autocrat. Whether you like it or not there are many Fed fans who can't accept defeat and that goes for the ones I like as well.


It always comes down to the same story between us, when we discuss this, which is the missed matchpoint in the AO SF against Marat. But I won't give in on that one. On all of Roger's losses last year, we probably agree anyway.

Action Jackson
03-31-2005, 10:11 AM
It always comes down to the same story between us, when we discuss this, which is the missed matchpoint in the AO SF against Marat. But I won't give in on that one. On all of Roger's losses last year, we probably agree anyway.

Lets see you during the clayseason and the excuses you come up with when he loses. I know you'll have them ready.

Puschkin
03-31-2005, 10:19 AM
Lets see you during the clayseason and the excuses you come up with when he loses. I know you'll have them ready.


You underestimate me ;) I have more favourites than Roger, and I made sure that at least one of them is an excellent claycourter, so I will have something to cheer during this part of the season as well, if there is a need ;)

Action Jackson
03-31-2005, 10:22 AM
You underestimate me ;) I have more favourites than Roger, and I made sure that at least one of them is an excellent claycourter, so I will have something to cheer during this part of the season as well, if there is a need ;)

Not at all. I wish you were around when Mantilla beat him in Rome, the excuses would have been flowing like the Danube river.

Puschkin
03-31-2005, 10:26 AM
Not at all. I wish you were around when Mantilla beat him in Rome, the excuses would have been flowing like the Danube river.

But I wasn't around and I have not seen this match. On the other hand, I expect you to eat your words if Roger does win RG this year ;)

Action Jackson
03-31-2005, 10:35 AM
But I wasn't around and I have not seen this match. On the other hand, I expect you to eat your words if Roger does win RG this year ;)

Incorrect, as I have not said either way that he'll win it. Have you read that thread on GM about the tournament and if you have read the responses I have not said anything either way.

If you are going to try and pull me up on something, make sure it exists first. :p

Puschkin
03-31-2005, 10:40 AM
Have you read that thread on GM about the tournament and if you have read the responses I have not said anything either way.


I have followed this thread and I know that you did not really commit to a view, but when will you do so? After the final? ;) Sitting on the fence and then saying "I never excluded the possibility" is not an attitude for a person as decisive as you seem on so many other occasions;)

Action Jackson
03-31-2005, 10:44 AM
I have followed this thread and I know that you did not really commit to a view, but when will you do so? After the final? ;) Sitting on the fence and then saying "I never excluded the possibility" is not an attitude for a person as decisive as you seem on so many other occasions;)

The Federer apologist has spoken. Considering the thread is about whether he'll ever win it and not just for the year means I have plenty of time to answer it, so I am not going to rush something just for you and I don't rush choices I make anyway.

Two, there are lot of factors that need to be taken care of and I am not sure whether he can do that. If I am not sure I am not going to say something just to make a quick decision, he can, this doesn't mean he will.

lsy
03-31-2005, 10:46 AM
Yes GWH, for those who're able to be fair and objective, feel free to critisize as they want, but 90% others in MTF who's almost always doing the same when come to their favourites, better shut the fxxk up and stop thinking they have the right to do so or think they're better than few Fed freaks :tape:

As for the question on this thread, it's the latest trend in MTF.

People will always try to find fault in the top player, not to mention one who had been so dominating. The thing is for Rogi, he doesn't do much controversial stuff for others to bash both on and off court, so I almost feel like picking on the no. of threads with his name of it in GM was one of the pathetic way of getting around with bashing him "fairly" so as to release their frustratiosn of him winning too much ;) Otherwise, read and analysie every sinlge line of what he said and jump on it each time he said anything's that's on boarder of confident and arrogant, than make a big fuss over it.

Else it's hard for me to see why Federer's discussion/threads or Fed "freaks" are the only one that's polluting GM (LMAO, and we're talking about GM here, the one where for year I read about who's more sexy, who have better legs etc daily). As many of you had pointed out, funny thing is most of those threads created in GM weren't even from his fans :rolleyes:

Also questions...

1)
Starting threads about "boring" Federer discussion
Starting threads just to complain about the above thread coz it killed the variety of tennis discussion?

Which is more redundant?

2)
make posts congratulating on Rogi's "obvious" wins
make posts complaining/whining on the redundant congratulations instead of just ignoring those posts and let the thread die?

which is more irritating?

:confused: :confused:

My pick is ALL of them are, so it doesnt' give one the right to critisize the other or think they are better ;)

Action Jackson
03-31-2005, 10:50 AM
lsy, considering I don't have a problem with talking about any players game and that includes the ones I loathe intensely, but the Federer threads on GM are a bit too much. I know I started one of them which was to joke about the backlash if he failed to repeat 2004, then the other was done by a friend of mine talking about different aspects of the game.

Puschkin
03-31-2005, 10:54 AM
The Federer apologist has spoken.

:confused:

Why? I dare to say that he will win it once in his carrer, so much for the precise question asked on the GM thread. And I am optimistic for this year, because of the circumstances as I see them now. Of course the weather conditions at RG, the draw and other factors will have an impact as well and it may well be that Roger will not win it in 2005. Well, that's life. I had many wrong predictions in my " career" as a tennis watcher, the most recent example is David Ferrer who proved me wrong three times in a single week ;) .
Predictions are predictions, so what is the link to being an apologist?

Action Jackson
03-31-2005, 10:59 AM
:confused:

Why? I dare to say that he will win it once in his carrer, so much for the precise question asked on the GM thread. And I am optimistic for this year, because of the circumstances as I see them now. Of course the weather conditions at RG, the draw and other factors will have an impact as well and it may well be that Roger will not win it in 2005. Well, that's life. I had many wrong predictions in my " career" as a tennis watcher, the most recent example is David Ferrer who proved me wrong three times in a single week ;) .
Predictions are predictions, so what is the link to being an apologist?

Ok, I don't deal that well with fans that can't take defeat and the Safin match showed your colours, so that is why I will always be sceptical.

That specific RG question has been dealt with and I gave my reasons as to why I haven't said anything of yet. If he doesn't win it and during the clay season, if he is defeated will you not make excuses for him if he loses?

lsy
03-31-2005, 11:00 AM
lsy, considering I don't have a problem with talking about any players game and that includes the ones I loathe intensely, but the Federer threads on GM are a bit too much. I know I started one of them which was to joke about the backlash if he failed to repeat 2004, then the other was done by a friend of mine talking about different aspects of the game.

Considering I had read enough from you talking about tennis, you should know I wasn't talking about you.

What I can't stand are those who think they are better and yet I don't read anything from them that's remotely close to so called "intelligent" discussion and most of them are as bias when comes to their favourites.

The thing is with Federer's performance for the past year, he's going to attract the most bandwagon jumpers no doubt, and maybe some of the new fans who truly just spotted his tennis and are eager to talk about it. What are we going to do about it? As I said, don't like it, don't read it, or even better create other meaningful threads, than just do nth but whine the shit out of it.

Even funnier are the ones who won't stop complaining about his domination yet at the same time talking about come clay, there'll be at least a dozen or maybe 2 dozen who can beat Rogi. If so, then why not just sit down, shut the fxxk up and wait for the clay season to come? Why the need to keep whining about how boring it is him kept winning, or how boring federer's dicussion threads are?

I hope you get my point here ;)

Action Jackson
03-31-2005, 11:06 AM
What I can't stand are those who think they are better and yet I don't read anything from them that's remotely close to so called "intelligent" discussion and most of them are as bias when comes to their favourites.

There are those that are around and I actually challenged some people from those fanbases from players I don't like to talk about that respective players game and nothing has come of it.

The thing is with Federer's performance for the past year, he's going to attract the most bandwagon jumpers no doubt, and maybe some of the new fans who truly just spotted his tennis and are eager to talk about it. What are we going to do about it? As I said, don't like it, don't read it, or even better create other meaningful threads, than just do nth but whine the shit out of it.

Yes, it's a huge bandwagon isn't it? As you know the patterns change and come the clay season the Coria trolls will be out in force. Yes, I have been guilty of the wow! Roger won a match and why is it here on GM. It's not that easy to create some intelligent threads here.

Even funnier are the ones who won't stop complaining about his domination yet at the same time talking about come clay, there'll be at least a dozen or maybe 2 dozen who can beat Rogi. If so, then why not just sit down, shut the fxxk up and wait for the clay season to come? Why the need to keep whining about how boring it is him kept winning, or how boring federer's dicussion threads are?

I got the point and people are strange.

Puschkin
03-31-2005, 11:14 AM
Ok, I don't deal that well with fans that can't take defeat and the Safin match showed your colours, so that is why I will always be sceptical.

That specific RG question has been dealt with and I gave my reasons as to why I haven't said anything of yet. If he doesn't win it and during the clay season, if he is defeated will you not make excuses for him if he loses?

I have said it before, I like Marat Safin, and his victory was deserved, nevertheless it was as close as it could get. BTW: this is also true for the Federere/Ferrero match in Dubai. A little bit of luck is sometimes also involved, although I would rate its contribution lower than a coach's ;)

As for the excuses during the clay court season: We'll talk about them at due course. But this brings me to another question? What is an excuse for you? For me, admitting to have played badly, is no excuse, but an explanation. Maybe a different view on these terms is behind our arguments ;)

Action Jackson
03-31-2005, 11:24 AM
I have said it before, I like Marat Safin, and his victory was deserved, nevertheless it was as close as it could get. BTW: this is also true for the Federere/Ferrero match in Dubai. A little bit of luck is sometimes also involved, although I would rate its contribution lower than a coach's ;)


It's not a question of whether you like Safin or not. You struggled to accept the fact that Federer wasn't good enough when it counted on that day. You learn more about players and people in defeat than in victory.

Why do you need to know what my definition of what an excuse is? You were making them in the match that Federer lost, that is explanation enough.

If someone chokes a match away that is their fault, when they were dominating and couldn't close a match out it's all their own fault, then you get people say he only won because they choked, but what led to it is overlooked and the fact that the other player was better when it counted and good enough to take advantage of it.

lsy
03-31-2005, 11:31 AM
Yes, it's a huge bandwagon isn't it? As you know the patterns change and come the clay season the Coria trolls will be out in force. Yes, I have been guilty of the wow! Roger won a match and why is it here on GM. It's not that easy to create some intelligent threads here.

Yes it's not, but if you do, I still believe that there're quite a few posters around who can make it a worth reading thread, including contribution from yourself of course. I wish I can, but I just haven't watched enough tennis. You'll do much better in such threads than the "oh wow Roger won a match" kind of threads :p


I got the point and people are strange.

no, not strange, just bias...and it's normal as I always say, I'm admittedly bias too. Just as long as they don't come out and start critisizing others like they are better, that's so bullshit.

Just one question to you GWH, since you and pushkin are on this "excuse" discussion. What about the fans who won't stop talking about Rogi beating Safin in AO last year was coz he was exhausted? Even Safin himself said that this year AO match was supposed to the "true" match, he also said that on the ceremony last year that he ran out of gas. Is that also excuse?

Action Jackson
03-31-2005, 11:36 AM
Yes it's not, but if you do, I still believe that there're quite a few posters around who can make it a worth reading thread, including contribution from yourself of course. I wish I can, but I just haven't watched enough tennis. You'll do much better in such threads than the "oh wow Roger won a match" kind of threads :p


I'll bring some good ones during the clay season I do my best work there.

Bias happens everywhere, it's just how it's handled which is the most important thing.

Safin fans are another league and I have given them crap for making excuses and I have said it's a small dream of mine, if they could one day admit Marat wasn't good enough on that day and was outplayed for whatever reason, but yes the excuse disease definitely exists there.

Puschkin
03-31-2005, 11:37 AM
You struggled to accept the fact that Federer wasn't good enough when it counted on that day.


That is not true and you know it. What I said was that Roger lost this match in the forth set and Marat won it in the fifth. I also said, that Roger lost it on matchpoint, because he went for being flashy, and by this I mean not only the shot through the legs, but the whole setup of the matchpoint. If you want to call that choking, I'd accept that, although I think it was something different, my feeling was that he wanted to end this tough battle with a clear proof for everybody to see that he is the better player, yes, this was hubris and he was punished for it.

As for the explanation/excuse definition: why do you shy away from it? ;)

Action Jackson
03-31-2005, 11:41 AM
I have already given examples of excuses. Nalbandian makes too many of them when he loses and I am a fan of his and that pisses me off.

By saying Roger lost the match, automatically you are devaluing Marat's achievement saying that he only won the match because Roger lost it.

Puschkin
03-31-2005, 11:48 AM
I have already given examples of excuses. Nalbandian makes too many of them when he loses and I am a fan of his and that pisses me off.


I also like his game :p

By saying Roger lost the match, automatically you are devaluing Marat's achievement saying that he only won the match because Roger lost it.

But that is something else than making excuses for Roger. What you "accuse" me now is not giving Marat sufficient credit. Yeah, in this particular match under the circumstances described I am guilty of this sin.

Action Jackson
03-31-2005, 11:50 AM
It's an excuse as to why Marat won the match, because Roger lost it and he didn't win it.

Puschkin
03-31-2005, 11:56 AM
It's an excuse as to why Marat won the match, because Roger lost it and he didn't win it.

I have already stated before, that Marat won the match by his great performance in the fifth and by taking the match to a fifth set, and as the fifth set is the final one, the winner of the fifth is the winner of the match, it is as simple as that.

Action Jackson
03-31-2005, 11:57 AM
I have already stated before, that Marat won the match by his great performance in the fifth and by taking the match to a fifth set, and as the fifth set is the final one, the winner of the fifth is the winner of the match, it is as simple as that.

If that was the case why make the excuses that Federer lost the match then? I am anticipating the clay season and I hope you have your book of excuses ready.

Puschkin
03-31-2005, 12:02 PM
If that was the case why make the excuses that Federer lost the match then? I am anticipating the clay season and I hope you have your book of excuses ready.


I have the feeling that you want to provoke me into being rude, but I am not doing you this favour ;) I remain with my interpretation of that match and you with yours.

As for the claycourt season, we'll see. I won't see too many matches I am afraid, I depend on Eurosport and German channels, so Hamburg will be one of the tourneys we can discuss and of course RG. I am looking forward to it, seriously :wavey:

Action Jackson
03-31-2005, 12:14 PM
I have the feeling that you want to provoke me into being rude, but I am not doing you this favour ;) I remain with my interpretation of that match and you with yours.

As for the claycourt season, we'll see. I won't see too many matches I am afraid, I depend on Eurosport and German channels, so Hamburg will be one of the tourneys we can discuss and of course RG. I am looking forward to it, seriously :wavey:

Provoking you that is not true, just stating the facts you make excuses for Roger's defeat at AO and will do so again when he loses his next match.

Puschkin
03-31-2005, 12:18 PM
Provoking you that is not true, just stating the facts you make excuses for Roger's defeat at AO and will do so again when he loses his next match.


The sickness rumours are already out, even before today's match, but keep in mind, it was not me who spread them ;)

Dirk
03-31-2005, 02:23 PM
I wouldn't say that Roger lost the match because of that trick shot. For all we know he could have turned around and hit an error or safin could have hit a winner. Who knows. I was just upset Roger had foot blisters because it came out of nowhere. There was no time to prepare for it as a fan. He was moving just fine in the Andre match. :fiery: I am generally happy for Safin's win. Had Safin lost that final then I would have been pissed especially if Andy made the final. :tape: :fiery:

GWH, us Federer fans including yourself are not expecting domination from Roger this clay season. We all hope he can win a clay master and do great at RG but that is it. As for excuses on clay goes, I gave full credit to Costa at Rome. Yes I was pissed Roger won the first set so easily then crumbled but after reading about how Costa became more aggressive and used his experience to win then I was ok because Costa outplayed him. As for Guga RG match. I wasn't too shocked given his Kiefer performance but sadden as well. I know all about his trouble dealing with those conditions but Guga played great from what I read so I gave him full credit. Hell I even would have given Andy full credit had he won Wimbledon which I thought was going to happen at the start of the 2nd rain delay. I know Roger was under the weather but that was his fault for not taking care of himself. I was just stunned and happy to the hills that Roger showed us his true champion side that day. :D

Dirk
03-31-2005, 02:25 PM
The sickness rumours are already out, even before today's match, but keep in mind, it was not me who spread them ;)

Yes that is true. Of course making them known is the sin here especially if Nadal does meet and beat Roger in the final if he is still struggling with it.

Puschkin
03-31-2005, 02:27 PM
I wouldn't say that Roger lost the match because of that trick shot.


Not the trick shot alone, but the attitude behind it. But thanks for taking up the "battle". I was exhausted after my correspondence with GWH ;)

Action Jackson
03-31-2005, 02:28 PM
Yes, well Dirk we have been discussing this for a while, so you do know where I come from and it's funny how many people seem to think I hate Roger when Isy, jtipson, WyveN, MrsB and yourself know otherwise.

Costa definitely had him that day, but you know what I am like with people who make excuses justifying their faves losses. I mean I don't like it when my faves lose, but I don't cover for them when it's not deserved.

TheMightyFed
03-31-2005, 02:34 PM
Yes, well Dirk we have been discussing this for a while, so you do know where I come from and it's funny how many people seem to think I hate Roger when Isy, jtipson, WyveN, MrsB and yourself know otherwise.

Costa definitely had him that day, but you know what I am like with people who make excuses justifying their faves losses. I mean I don't like it when my faves lose, but I don't cover for them when it's not deserved.
The blisters can't be an excuse, and I don't like these days when Fed says he was not 100%, and this and that, he disappoints me a bit trying to justify his only loss of 2005... no need ! And he should win despite the blisters, if he enters the court, no excuse ! Pete vomitted and still won in this USO against Corretja, this is the champ trademark...

Action Jackson
03-31-2005, 02:36 PM
mdhubert, what's going on that was a serious post.

Dirk
03-31-2005, 02:48 PM
I wouldn't blame it all on the blisters either since Roger still nearly won. Even with the nerve pain in his hand in the 5th set he still nearly won. I just was mad because when I was following the score on the radio and Roger's stats were getting shitty in the 2nd set I was wondering what the hell was going on. It took me a day to get over that loss but I did and I hope Saffy can win some more events this year because I do like seeing Peter get a lot of credit. :)

Had Pete lost that match are you sure you wouldn't be saying it was not cause he was vomitting? That is very different because that had to do with Pete's diet or lack of one. Foot blisters can just happen out of nowhere especially given that sticky hot surface.

Still it could have been worse. Roger could have lost to Agassi then I would have to deal with the "a 35 year old beats Roger crap posts".

Dirk
03-31-2005, 02:50 PM
Yes, well Dirk we have been discussing this for a while, so you do know where I come from and it's funny how many people seem to think I hate Roger when Isy, jtipson, WyveN, MrsB and yourself know otherwise.

Costa definitely had him that day, but you know what I am like with people who make excuses justifying their faves losses. I mean I don't like it when my faves lose, but I don't cover for them when it's not deserved.

I don't even think you mind his domination. I think a few other fans here might think otherwise, but I don't think your the undomiele type.

Action Jackson
03-31-2005, 02:50 PM
That last line is scary Dirk.

Dirk
03-31-2005, 02:58 PM
George sorry for the scare. I am thankful that your not one of those types and generally is happy for Roger's success unlike our favorite RG witch Undomiele who would hex Roger RGless.

Action Jackson
03-31-2005, 02:59 PM
No problem Dirk I like the game of tennis and that's the most important thing and I appreciate Federer, but I am not going to fawn over him.

Dirk
03-31-2005, 03:01 PM
Yes but unlike other dirtball lovers you actually want Roger to win RG. There are a few that think he is not worthy of winning it because of his talent. :fiery:

Doris Loeffel
03-31-2005, 03:03 PM
Hmmm are we a bit off topic here ;)
Guess we should transform that into "excuses why Roger lost". And yes I agree every given statement other than "Roger lost becouse his opponent was the better player that day" will sound like a bitter excuse as we are so spoiled by him winning that much. (That's from a fans point of view - a non fan might be pissed by it ;) ) And when he loses once in a while we kind of are hmmm speachless and have a hard time to explain to ourselfs why he lost. As for the AO Semi Roger should have won that match already before having that matchpoint - he should have served it home beeing up 5:2 in the tb but he didn't couse Marat had something against it ;) (And yes I do beliefe that he might have had these blisters that hindered him to move around like he usually does and that might have caused him the match that's my excuse why he lost that match :P :P :P) But still having discussions about it won't change the outcome of that match...
...and yes I'm looking forward to the clay season as well and keep the fingers crossed that Roger will do fine.

Action Jackson
03-31-2005, 03:10 PM
Blisters are not an excuse, but Doris I am just explaining that not everyone has to fawn over Federer, no matter how good he is.

yanchr
03-31-2005, 03:18 PM
...... but I don't think your the undomiele type.
:eek: :tape:
Yes GWH it is scary :bolt:

Doris Loeffel
03-31-2005, 03:19 PM
not everyone has to fawn over Federer, no matter how good he is.

I agree on that

Puschkin
03-31-2005, 03:27 PM
no matter how good he is.


I am reconciled with you GWH, in our little ;) correspondence you never admitted that.

yanchr
03-31-2005, 03:39 PM
The blisters can't be an excuse, and I don't like these days when Fed says he was not 100%, and this and that, he disappoints me a bit trying to justify his only loss of 2005... no need ! And he should win despite the blisters, if he enters the court, no excuse ! Pete vomitted and still won in this USO against Corretja, this is the champ trademark...
Why should we come back to that match AGAIN out of anything? Anyway...

True, that's not the typical Roger I've seen for long, no matter the fact that it was said privately. The blisters can't be an excuse? No, it was not an excuse, but the truth. I'm not saying he has all the ground to mention it for not only once, just I look it in this way......He took it too big, really too big. I won't get convinced or as stupid as to believe what he had to say, it's a loss, I can accept it, tomorrow would be fine..blah blah blah...Yes, it's just a loss, he can accept it quickly, but he has been struggling to overcome it later on, all through to IW I think. I believe the loss did haunt him once in a while which he wouldn't admit for sure. His keeping mentioning he was not 100% only showed he was not fully convinced of the defeat, he would think if he was 100% he would've beaten Safin, and that he was more than eager to show he is still THE best. In view of that, I actually think Roger is a little bit arrogant inside him, maybe unconsciously. He is not disappointing me by behaving like so, but really you can tell from this weird (from the usual him ) reaction that he cares about that loss so much, he cares about his position so much.

Well that's my humble opinion though :wavey:

Puschkin
03-31-2005, 03:52 PM
Why should we come back to that match AGAIN out of anything? Anyway...


Yanchr, you might remember that I was among the first ones to suggest learning the lessons of this match and then to get on. Just to give you the context: It came up again, as it always does, when I have a certain discussion with GWH. As for your interpretation of the whole story, I agree with some thoughts, but I disgaree with others. However, You are 100 % right: It is time to move on :wavey:

Skyward
03-31-2005, 03:52 PM
So bitter, I mean whats wrong about posting about the best player in the world?

It's very simple. Roger beats their favorite players and prevent them from winning titles.
It doesn't help that some people don't bother to read and/or think before they write. If a thread already exists, why the hell you need to open the similar one? :devil:

Blaze
03-31-2005, 04:00 PM
I don't understand why we Federer fans and sometimes the fans of Roddick and Hewitt can't make excuse for their losses but the Safin fans can always fall back on his being an "OAF" or his socall mental state.

When Roddick/Federer loses to a lower ranked player is is eaten alive is they are said to be losing their mistique, but when Safin loses to a lower rank player he is simply OAFing?

I believe if Safin had lost that AO semi his fans would have said his head wasn't in the right place and blah blah but the Fed fans are not allow to say he didn't play well and that his play had nothing to do with Safin.

Action Jackson
03-31-2005, 04:02 PM
Blaze, it happens to a regular occurance with Safin.

Blaze
03-31-2005, 04:04 PM
Blaze, it happens to a regular occurance with Safin.
Then is it fair to use it as an excuse?

You as a Gaudio fan could easily make this same excuse but I don't see you doing that

Action Jackson
03-31-2005, 04:06 PM
Did I say it was fair to make excuses. I give it to the Safin fans when it's needed and mentioned this same fact earlier in the Safin thread.

RonE
03-31-2005, 04:13 PM
I don't understand why we Federer fans and sometimes the fans of Roddick and Hewitt can't make excuse for their losses but the Safin fans can always fall back on his being an "OAF" or his socall mental state.

When Roddick/Federer loses to a lower ranked player is is eaten alive is they are said to be losing their mistique, but when Safin loses to a lower rank player he is simply OAFing?

I believe if Safin had lost that AO semi his fans would have said his head wasn't in the right place and blah blah but the Fed fans are not allow to say he didn't play well and that his play had nothing to do with Safin.

I agree with you on this point 100%- there definitely does seem to be a set of double standards regarding Safin and the other players.

As for Roger's defeats- there is really no point in thinking about excuses (blisters, illnes, fatigue) it is an integral part of the game. Shit happens, and not just to Roger. When Roger plays against other players who are sometimes not having the best of days and miss easy shots or are sick no one even bats an eyelid thinking about that. For example, his IW final match against Hewitt- let's face it, Roger didn't exactly play brilliantly in that match apart from a few select points and he made many errors. Against a 100% physically fit Hewitt with Roger playing the match as he did it would have been a completely different ballgame- so that could be a way of looking at things from the perspective of a non-Fed fan, a perspective most of us fans would not have thought about too much.

SUKTUEN
03-31-2005, 04:17 PM
very long~~~ :umbrella:

Puschkin
03-31-2005, 04:22 PM
I agree with you on this point 100%- there definitely does seem to be a set of double standards regarding Safin and the other players.


Marat and Roger are very different characters, even if they come quite close on some aspects. A similar difference can be seen among their fans. I know what I am talking about as I spent sufficent time on their respective fora.

Marat fans are very passionate and they can fall from exaltation to desaster and back again within a single post. But they are utterly loyal and that is the reason for their talent to find excuses. Among professional commentators I found much less sympathy for Marat. This is of course some generalisation which I used to prove my point.

SUKTUEN
03-31-2005, 04:26 PM
I know Safin is good friend with Roger in the past~~ :D

Blaze
03-31-2005, 04:27 PM
I know Safin is good friend with Roger in the past~~ :D


I think they are still friends

SUKTUEN
03-31-2005, 04:30 PM
that will be good~~~ :D

I am so afraid when after 2004 WIMBY final Roger and Andy wll not be friend any more~~~ :scared: :scared:

Action Jackson
03-31-2005, 04:36 PM
Roger and Andy are not actually.

PaulieM
03-31-2005, 04:38 PM
Marat and Roger are very different characters, even if they come quite close on some aspects. A similar difference can be seen among their fans. I know what I am talking about as I spent sufficent time on their respective fora.

Marat fans are very passionate and they can fall from exaltation to desaster and back again within a single post. But they are utterly loyal and that is the reason for their talent to find excuses. Among professional commentators I found much less sympathy for Marat. This is of course some generalisation which I used to prove my point.
i've started to notice that too. about safin, i get really frustrated sometimes because fine maybe he's talented but what makes a great tennis player is someone who capitalises on that talent. i don't think it's fair to say that he's one of the best if he doesn't have the results to back it up. god knows how many talented players there are out there that can't seem to do anything with it. and if that's the case then i know this is kind of harsh but if you're not going to do something about it then too bad. if safin doesn't have the desire to try his hardest at every tournament and feels like "oafing" then that's something that i personally have no respect for and i think people need to quit making excuses for him, there's a reason not everyone can be a great tennis player. i know many people will disagree with this but i can't stand some of the ridiculous excuses that get made for him, i feel as though a lot of other players are similar and people trash them. :(

SUKTUEN
03-31-2005, 04:41 PM
Roger and Andy are not actually.

No~~they are friends ~~ :o

RogiFan88
03-31-2005, 04:44 PM
Then is it fair to use it as an excuse?

You as a Gaudio fan could easily make this same excuse but I don't see you doing that

No it should not be fair to use anything as an excuse for any player.

It's not an excuse, that's just Marat -- Marat is Marat and I bet HE doesn't even know sometimes why he's in oaf mode... that is what tortured genius is. ;)

SUKTUEN
03-31-2005, 04:47 PM
I love you avarat Rogifan

Action Jackson
03-31-2005, 04:48 PM
No it should not be fair to use anything as an excuse for any player.

It's not an excuse, that's just Marat -- Marat is Marat and I bet HE doesn't even know sometimes why he's in oaf mode... that is what tortured genius is. ;)

Si, that is correct.

RogiFan88
03-31-2005, 04:57 PM
George, just saw your comment about AA in Gasti's thread... I am cheering for Dent to take out AA today but I'm not holding my breath... just 1 more match, Taylor... don't crap out once again...

SUKTUEN
03-31-2005, 05:01 PM
:wavey: Be Roger 's fan ~~ will be have a big fun !!

Action Jackson
03-31-2005, 05:03 PM
George, just saw your comment about AA in Gasti's thread... I am cheering for Dent to take out AA today but I'm not holding my breath... just 1 more match, Taylor... don't crap out once again...

I have my reasons RF for the way I feel about Baldy, but it'd be good if he won, so Roger can take him out.

SUKTUEN
03-31-2005, 05:30 PM
I become a Roger fan in 2001~~~

lsy
04-03-2005, 02:50 PM
Yes, well Dirk we have been discussing this for a while, so you do know where I come from and it's funny how many people seem to think I hate Roger when Isy, jtipson, WyveN, MrsB and yourself know otherwise.


eerrr...I'm not so sure anymore....but if comes "grass is for cow" season, you'll go to every tournament thread and post "Goooooo Rogi" "COME ON Rogi"....maybe I will believe you do like Rogi

Just Kidding!!!

:nerner:

SUKTUEN
04-03-2005, 04:15 PM
Cow love Grass ~~~~ My dear~~ :devil:

MissMoJo
04-04-2005, 06:27 AM
I generally agree with what Lsy,Shengster, Blaze etc. have said.The hostility towards Roger in GM is at a high these days, and it's both irritating and understandable at times. On the one hand there're posters who just can't stop complaining about how boring his domination is(because it's not their favorite, of course), how arrogant he is, there are too many fed threads, Marat is the new #1 after AO etc. Enough already, you're not a fan, we get it. Equally as annoying ,and agitating the hostility, are the 'Roger is the greatest ever, everyone else sucks' posts, 'Roger def Carlsen 60 61', 'Roger will win 25 slams..' threads. Coincidentally, many of the same 'fans' who usually make those posts can be seen calling him a loser, in the scores thread when it looked like Nadal was going to win. That's sad. The good thing is that these people on opposite ends of the spectrum are in the minority.Generally i think most non fans respect what he's accomplised and,even though they would prefer seeing other players win, give Roger due credit. Most fans admire his game, are happy when he wins, disappointed but optimistic when he loses, and don't have unrealistic expectations for his career.

Anyway, when the clay season starts i'm sure things will die down....unless of course he makes a good run, in which case expect more troll threads and obnoxious posts from the haters and obsessedlovers alike.

World Beater
04-04-2005, 07:24 AM
growl! like a lion federer....amazing fight...a true champion...no matter what he does, people will always have something neg to say. But who cares, its his fans that matter! the streak lives....the other players must be embarassed knowing that it took a fearless 18 yr old to push federer... roddick was asked abt rafa and all he said was that he "can play on clay", roger touts him for greatness...i think we know who to believe here when it comes to talent...i myself doubted rafa as i had never seen him play...but wow did he play great in the first set

NATAS81
04-04-2005, 07:25 AM
weeeeeeeeeeee! Rogi master all court game!

SUKTUEN
04-04-2005, 11:06 AM
Go Roger GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :woohoo:

Roger is my Love!!!!!!! :yippee: :yippee:

MissMoJo
06-29-2005, 08:21 PM
Bump. The hostility has reached a crescendo in the last couple weeks

PaulieM
06-29-2005, 08:23 PM
look guys Roger sucks ass and is evil, we should all accept this. :rolleyes:

Shabazza
06-29-2005, 09:11 PM
I just love this asshole thread in GM :angel:

SUKTUEN
06-30-2005, 03:13 AM
I love here

RogiFan88
06-30-2005, 04:07 AM
think about it, it's better to be "talked about" than NOT to be talked about... it's when they STOP talking about you that you have to worry... ;)

Yasmine
06-30-2005, 08:45 AM
I just love this asshole thread in GM :angel:
that just confirms they're a bunch of trolls there! :devil:
about the match against Lleyton (being a Lleyton fan, I find it hard) I can guarantee you there is no such bashing in the Lleyton's forum :angel: otherwise they would hear from me!!! :devil:

Purple Rainbow
06-30-2005, 01:35 PM
The likes of Hitchhiker and Alexito_36 are getting on my nerves... Stupid trolls.

SuperFurryAnimal
06-30-2005, 01:38 PM
There should just be respect amongst tennisfans. Whether Roger is your fave player, or Roddick or Hewitt or someone else. There's already enough argument in the world, it's not worth it. Just spread the love for the game around! :)

Yasmine
06-30-2005, 01:41 PM
There should just be respect amongst tennisfans. Whether Roger is your fave player, or Roddick or Hewitt or someone else. There's already enough argument in the world, it's not worth it. Just spread the love for the game around! :)
:worship: THE VOICE OF WISDOM!!!!!! :worship:

Yasmine
06-30-2005, 01:43 PM
Just to say I definitely agree here, some people tend to forget we're tennis fans somewhow and end up raising themselves against some players... plenty of that happening in the world without adding onto it tennis players: they're doing nothing wrong to any of us except doing what they like most: playing tennis (and playing with our nerves alright! :devil: )

Shabazza
06-30-2005, 01:59 PM
You're right, of course, but they're always will be stupid trolls and flamer and people, who will take their bait - you just can't extinct them - words of reason and wisdom won't be heard, understood or even recognized by them - they don't speak this language!

Yasmine
06-30-2005, 02:03 PM
well the trolls can stay in troll land that GM is sometimes:p doesn't mean we need to mix with them :D :devil:

Shabazza
06-30-2005, 02:04 PM
but it's fun to read it...sometimes ;)

PaulieM
06-30-2005, 02:18 PM
The likes of Hitchhiker and Alexito_36 are getting on my nerves... Stupid trolls.
:lol: Alexito_36 is my personal favorite, never fails to present a clever and well thought out arguement :rolleyes:

Purple Rainbow
06-30-2005, 02:23 PM
:lol: Alexito_36 is my personal favorite, never fails to present a clever and well thought out arguement :rolleyes:

And always in perfect Oxford-dictionary English too! :worship:

Mrs. B
06-30-2005, 02:38 PM
ah, alexito, the genius. that's just his way. i'm sure he speaks perfect English. ;)

at least hitchhiker/heya is funny.

dont feed the trolls.

SuperFurryAnimal
06-30-2005, 03:20 PM
You're right, of course, but they're always will be stupid trolls and flamer and people, who will take their bait - you just can't extinct them - words of reason and wisdom won't be heard, understood or even recognized by them - they don't speak this language!

Well, if people want to troll, just ignore them. Then they won't have much fun about it anyway and eventually they'll stop. As long as the rest of us keep this a nice place to discuss tennis and respect other peoples opinions.

Whistleway
06-30-2005, 03:41 PM
From my view, I think, Federer fans are more mature and adultish and generally like nicer players. And you guys at MTF are great !!

Lee
06-30-2005, 04:08 PM
ah, alexito, the genius. that's just his way. i'm sure he speaks perfect English. ;)

at least hitchhiker/heya is funny.

dont feed the trolls.

So true, Mrs. B! :yeah:

SUKTUEN
06-30-2005, 04:42 PM
Why me so love Roger~?

Shabazza
06-30-2005, 04:54 PM
Well, if people want to troll, just ignore them. Then they won't have much fun about it anyway and eventually they'll stop. As long as the rest of us keep this a nice place to discuss tennis and respect other peoples opinions.
What I mean is, there will always be someone, who feed the trolls, so they won't stop, it's a matter of fact. It doesn't bother me that much though, i can deal with it and it can be quite fun sometimes ;) - as you said there are more than enough people out there, who you can chat and discuss with. :)

SUKTUEN
06-30-2005, 04:56 PM
From my view, I think, Federer fans are more mature and adultish and generally like nicer players. And you guys at MTF are great !!

:yeah: :yeah: :yeah:

Yasmine
06-30-2005, 11:07 PM
I must say that me who's been going to both Lleyton and Roger's forum, I am proud to say that the past couple of days there has been no bashing of the other in those since we know they're playing in the SF :worship: this just comforts me in the idea that both sides are classy fans and i'm proud to be part of them! Let's keep up that spirit guys Roger would be proud :worship: :hug:

lunahielo
07-01-2005, 01:24 AM
Originally posted by dancing_queen

I must say that me who's been going to both Lleyton and Roger's forum, I am proud to say that the past couple of days there has been no bashing of the other in those since we know they're playing in the SF this just comforts me in the idea that both sides are classy fans and i'm proud to be part of them!

That is nice to know.
I have never been to another forum.. (except GM)..........because I am only a fan of Roger, however Lleyton is one of the other players that I like.
However, when he plays Roger~~~~~~~~~~~:)

SuperFurryAnimal
07-01-2005, 09:07 AM
I must say that me who's been going to both Lleyton and Roger's forum, I am proud to say that the past couple of days there has been no bashing of the other in those since we know they're playing in the SF :worship: this just comforts me in the idea that both sides are classy fans and i'm proud to be part of them! Let's keep up that spirit guys Roger would be proud :worship: :hug:

This is a very good development! Real tennis fans - lovers of the game and not so much of specific players because they're so-called 'hot'- should respect all players and spread their love for tennis around! :)

SUKTUEN
07-01-2005, 06:54 PM
I am a Big Fans of Roger and Sampras!

Yasmine
07-01-2005, 07:00 PM
This is a very good development! Real tennis fans - lovers of the game and not so much of specific players because they're so-called 'hot'- should respect all players and spread their love for tennis around! :)
That is the whole point! We are tennis fans, without the sport none of us (or Roger or Lleyton for that matter) would be here talking about it :cool:. GM trolls seem to forget that and should be banned (yeah yeah I know you can't avoid them :rolleyes: but I'm an idealist)

SUKTUEN
07-02-2005, 05:12 PM
I love Sampras!

soonha
07-07-2005, 09:57 PM
I'd like to present an excellent article which, I think, all tennis fans esp. some trolls and Federer haters in GM must read........ A little bit long but worth of it.
===========================================
Rooney or Saha? Why sporting excellence should be celebrated
By Martin Samuel
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,8305-1682053_1,00.html


YOU will, if all goes according to plan, be around for roughly 17 World Cups during your lifetime. The Bible records human longevity as three score years and ten and many centuries of medical evolution, from leeches to open-heart surgery, have failed to advance that by much, one way or another, and not at all in some places. So divide 70 by four and you get 17, remainder two, which should correspond to plenty of thrills for everybody.

But wait. The first two, perhaps three, tournaments will barely register on your infant radar and the two after will largely take place while you are at school. So that is five down already somewhere between dribbling, short trousers and French irregular verbs. For the next segment of life you must hope for an understanding boss/lecturer/spouse/warden who is willing to indulge your love of the game above work/ metaphysical poetry/family life/lights out. In your dotage, this should be less of an issue, but nodding off halfway through a Brazil masterclass could be.

Before you know it, the show is over. And not every World Cup is a cracker, either.

There was only one Diego Maradona. The Brazil 1970 team is still without peer. No one younger than 45 can really remember England lifting the trophy in 1966. The point is this: enjoy yourself; it’s later than you think.

More specifically, enjoy them: Roger Federer, Daniel Carter, Lance Armstrong, Adriano, Tiger Woods, the Williams sisters( :confused: I don't agree with this), Australia’s touring cricketers.

Enjoy beauty, enjoy art, enjoy sport as it was meant to be played, by those who were born to play it. Sounds simple enough. Yet how many missed the most amazing football match in recent memory, having changed channels because there was something unfulfilling about AC Milan playing football from the heavens to take a three-goal first-half lead in the European Cup final?

Why does this matter now? Perhaps because, even taking that amazing night into account, a high-water mark for the sporting season was surely reached at the weekend. An All Blacks victory over the Lions that redefined rugby union in the modern era, Venus Williams’s triumph against the odds in the most physically demanding women’s Wimbledon final in history, a thrilling tie in an international cricket one-day final and the performance of Federer’s young life to win a third straight title at the All England Club. And there will be those out there who did not get it. They would rather have seen the Lions grind out a 15-13 kick-fest; they think that the same guy winning Wimbledon makes it tedious; they cannot see the worth of a draw.

The tendency has always been to adjust the set when confronted with excellence, to change channels in search of a scrap, a ruckus, or a more obvious thrill. We want biff, we want bang, we want Twenty20; we want to be entertained, not enlightened. The third Lions international is now considered a dead rubber, because the All Blacks lead the series 2-0, rather than another opportunity to see the greatest rugby players in the world. One more Federer triumph on Centre Court and he stands to be derided in the manner of the underappreciated Pete Sampras.

Think back to that European Cup final. After 45 minutes, why did so many reach for the remote control? Milan’s football was stunning. It was not unthinkable that they could have scored five or six had outrageous fortune not intervened. So what was not to like? What was so unappealing? To be frank, what the hell is wrong with you people? :yeah:

In Monday’s bulletins, the announcement that Carter, the All Blacks fly half, would miss the final international in Auckland was widely interpreted as good news for Lions fans. No it wasn’t. If some poor soul has blown the children’s inheritance flying halfway around the world to watch two moribund performances by Sir Clive Woodward’s cast of thousands (assembled at a cost of millions), the saving grace would be an eye-witness report on rugby’s next superstar. It should not matter to a true lover of the game if the Lions go down by 60 points on Saturday, provided that more time is spent in the company of the mercurial Carter. That is the other frustration; most of us spend half our life backing the wrong team.

Be truthful; in the 2002 World Cup, how many misguided patriots cheered when Ronaldinho, fresh from chipping David Seaman from somewhere near the car park, was unjustly sent off for Brazil against England? Considering the outcome of the match, in retrospect, should lovers of the beautiful game not rather he had stayed on and even scored a second goal similar to the one that dazzled Chelsea at Stamford Bridge in the European Cup last season ? Would that not have been worth going around the world to see, or at least skiving off work for the morning with a fake cold? Looking back, surely it was a pity that much of the France team turned up too knackered or injured to function in that competition.

Perhaps these romantic notions only come with age. I now understand why, when we used to go to Upton Park to watch West Ham United, my Dad would be disappointed if Kenny Dalglish was not playing for Liverpool. All I could think was that our team might now scrape a point. He knew we were missing an opportunity to watch greatness and that the opportunity would be fleeting. Those who exude glee when Wayne Rooney’s name is not on the teamsheet at their ground next season might wonder how memories of Louis Saha will play later in life. Chances are that Manchester United will win anyway. At least get an image worth preserving.

The more of those 17 World Cups are ticked off, the less I care about the team, the more I care for the game. It would have been nice for the Lions to have won in Wellington, but even had they done, the rugby would not have been half as good as that played by New Zealand. And if life is too short to drink bad wine, it is certainly too short to watch bad rugby.

In fact, life is too short to indulge bad anything. Take music. We appreciate certain noises, certain voices. But if halfway through his career, Frank Sinatra had decided to revisit the Tommy Dorsey years accompanied by Alabama Chuck’s Kazoo Quartet, he would have been playing to empty halls before he could say he did it his way. Yet where sport is concerned, we place blind faith before all. To most people, “may the best team win” is a lie. We do not want the best team; we want our team, at any cost.

Do Arsenal fans feel a scrap of remorse about that travesty of an FA Cup Final in May? Of course not. More remarkably, there are others who happily devote a lifetime to hero- worship men playing sport so badly that it is often laughable. God bless them. Without them, there would be a million people trying to get into the same four football grounds every Saturday afternoon.

I do appreciate the peculiar thrill of caring passionately for your club. I still go to Upton Park when I can (and still pay, before you ask). But this season, if the opponents are Manchester United I want Rooney to be in the team. It will not be long before Federer’s mastery is confused with monotony. It happened to Sampras, and Woods when he had all four golf majors in his grasp, and Michael Schumacher, the greatest driver Formula One has known.

Yet I once sat at the back of the Road Hole at St Andrews and watched the field play the same shot, again and again, entering the green on the same side, rolling around, until the last ball of the day arrived by a totally original, previously uncharted, route. Tiger.

The same year I went to the Belgian Grand Prix at Spa-Franchorchamps. It boasts the Eau Rouge corner, a relic of motor racing’s terrifying past, when real men, not Michelin men, made the news. Eau Rouge remains the most challenging and spectacular bend on the circuit, twisting skywards into a black hole of dense pines. “Listen to the engines,” a friend told me, “as they approach it, they all ease off. Except one.” Schumacher. Screaming, accelerating, bravest of the brave.

How many Schumachers will there be in your lifetime? How many Tigers? How many Federers? How many great World Cups? Not 17, that is for sure. Enjoy it while it lasts. Enjoy the predictability of excellence, the turgidity of inspiration, the ennui of genius. Enjoy the players. Enjoy it all. If Federer is on Centre Court, there really is nothing on the other side, anyway. :worship:

Nathy
07-07-2005, 10:33 PM
:worship: soonha, thanks a bunch for this wonderful article :worship:

Shabazza
07-08-2005, 12:01 AM
this is such a great article, thx soonha :)
I bow my head to the author, who spoken my mind here :worship:

lunahielo
07-08-2005, 02:30 AM
Excellent article, soonah~~~~Thank you, dear.

Nocko
07-08-2005, 02:41 AM
Soonha, I didn't see your post for a while, started to wonder where you are. :wavey: Thank you very much for this nice article. :worship: :worship: Hope you are going to post here more often! ;)

soonha
07-08-2005, 07:19 AM
You are very welcome, my dearest Rogi fans! :wavey: Always my great pleasure to share everything about him with his fans....

soonha
07-08-2005, 07:30 AM
Soonha, I didn't see your post for a while, started to wonder where you are. :wavey: Thank you very much for this nice article. :worship: :worship: Hope you are going to post here more often! ;)
Hi, Nocko! :wavey: How are you? Did you miss me? aww :hug: :lol:

Yeah, it's been a while, hasn't it? I had been too busy to come by here for a couple of weeks. But I'd been following Rogi's great Wimby run. In fact, since his win, I've been living in a dream these days, it seems. :angel: :lol: I bet every Rogi fan feels the same way.

Now I can make some time to post and meet you more often.

Nocko
07-08-2005, 01:40 PM
Soonha! :D glad to hear from you. :hug:
and Yeah, me too. I'm still in the dream. :lol:
Everyday I can't stop smiling when I see my desk top( Rogi kisses to the trophy. :lol: ). ;)

Indie
07-08-2005, 01:54 PM
Nevermind them...dunno guess they are bitter cuz he's soooooo damn good at tennis is all!!! :) sometimes people can't help but to hate or lets say dislike talented and successful people which is Roger's case!
but who cares we love Roger and that's all that matters...plus he rocks and he knows it! :cool:

SUKTUEN
12-18-2006, 03:44 PM
Forgive it, this thread.

Eden
07-28-2008, 03:05 PM
Considering how many Fed-haters there are in this forum, there certainly are a lot of threads about him in GM, mostly started by them, I may add! ;)

What a joke... THEY are the ones w the obsession, NOT the Fed fans!!! Hee hee hee! They can't stop talking about him... just fun, mostly. Stay out of the vicious threads...

Well, 3 years later things have probably just become worse on GM.

It always amazes me to see how many people post there whenever Roger loses a match or just to bash him or Mirka. Apparently a lot of those people don't seem to have a favourite player they support as I get the impression all what attracts them to GM is to insult Roger.

I have to confess I take MTF way to seriously too often and maybe that's my fault, but I still don't get it why it is impossible to have discussions without all those hate going around.

nobama
07-28-2008, 03:36 PM
That's why I stay out of GM now and have for most of this year. Mostly imature posters and baiting/trolling going on.

Sunset of Age
07-28-2008, 03:47 PM
I have to confess I take MTF way to seriously too often and maybe that's my fault, but I still don't get it why it is impossible to have discussions without all those hate going around.

I suffer from the same disease, Doris. :hug:

Isn't it sad, to see so many people driven rather by hate for a certain player than for love?

Eden
05-03-2009, 12:03 PM
GM makes me really sad these days, especially that people try to downgrade the achievements of Roger.

It will be interesting to read MTF in a few years when other players are in the later days of their career.

Rita
05-03-2009, 12:13 PM
I agree Doris, Gm is a sad place.
They can hate him all they want but his achievement are there to stay wether they like it or not :ras:

Mechlan
05-03-2009, 11:40 PM
GM makes me really sad these days, especially that people try to downgrade the achievements of Roger.

It will be interesting to read MTF in a few years when other players are in the later days of their career.

Don't worry, if you're a bitter person, you can wait till the (inevitable) downfall of the players the haters support and have your revenge then. :wavey:

And if you're not a bitter person, Roger's accomplishments will still stand up over time. Even if he doesn't win a single tournament the rest of his life, he will be remembered as one of the best (in the Laver, Sampras, Borg category) which is something I don't see any of the current crop topping (yes that includes Nadal, great as he is right now). ;)

tennis2tennis
05-04-2009, 07:07 AM
that's why i want roger to start winning again it'd be funny to see their reaction...they're soooooooo fickle,