Roddick scores shocking upset over Federer [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Roddick scores shocking upset over Federer

Asmus
03-23-2005, 05:16 AM
Roddick was named Humanitarian of the Year despite the fact that Federer runs a foundation for underprivileged children in South Africa! This is a surprise but I guess I should finally give Roddick a :clap2:

El Legenda
03-23-2005, 05:19 AM
He probly payed for it. :)

Mimi
03-23-2005, 05:26 AM
you don't know Roddick personally, its not fair to judge whether a person is a jerk or not when you have yet to talk with him, let alone know him deeply :rolleyes:, he may be annoying on court, but that does not mean he is a bad person, its sad to hear that he does the charity but people still bad month him :rolleyes:

robinhood
03-23-2005, 05:37 AM
Let's let him have this one. I think he deserves it.

Chloe le Bopper
03-23-2005, 06:00 AM
It is such a suprise considering that Andy is the jerkiest jerk that ever jerked and I am not talking about jerking off either.

http://pictures.greatestjournal.com/userimg/3594412/758722

What a nasty peice of work! Stone him to death!
There he goes again, posing. I bet he paid those people. He should be BANNED.

Chloe le Bopper
03-23-2005, 06:21 AM
And then he ate the Teddy's head and spat out it's remains at the kid :sad:

bad gambler
03-23-2005, 06:28 AM
a lot of tennis players do admirable charity work, roddick amongst them

unfortunately we don't get to hear more about it in the press

PennyThePenguin
03-23-2005, 06:34 AM
you don't know Roddick personally, its not fair to judge whether a person is a jerk or not when you have yet to talk with him, let alone know him deeply :rolleyes:, he may be annoying on court, but that does not mean he is a bad person, its sad to hear that he does the charity but people still bad month him :rolleyes:

psst mimi......kell was kidding. really........

u have to forgive her...she's a little erm...mentally unstable ;) needs monitoring and is popping lotsa pills to control her condition...but as u can see... she isn't very good at following her medication regime....as a result..... :devil:

Mimi
03-23-2005, 06:37 AM
thanks penny for telling me :hug: :yippee:
psst mimi......kell was kidding. really........

u have to forgive her...she's a little erm...mentally unstable ;) needs monitoring and is popping lotsa pills to control her condition...but as u can see... she isn't very good at following her medication regime....as a result..... :devil:

Mimi
03-23-2005, 07:03 AM
then its ok, Kel :wavey:

i admire Andy for doing charity things, a lot of people who are more rich than him may not do charity :angel:

p.s. my old mum is a fans of Roddick :cool:


Sorry Mimi, I should have explained better.

As a joke, a lot of the Andy fans keep calling Andy a jerk because to a lot of people, no matter what he does, people slag him off and call him a spoilt brat and a selfish jerk when he really is a good person :)

But yes, I am an Andy fan and it is a joke :)

Now get my my pills Jiat and stop hiding them from me like a TROLLFACED JERK.

P.S:

http://www.andyroddick.com/images/news/2026image.jpg

JERK!

Arcadion
03-23-2005, 07:15 AM
lol nice one Kell, this thread should be bumped every week, for the benefit of the haters :)

PennyThePenguin
03-23-2005, 07:18 AM
i didn't hide ur pills kell......don't u remember? the TOES are ur pills...chew on the toes!!!!

Mimi
03-23-2005, 07:21 AM
hahah, penny, you are funny, just like your idol Marat

:devil: :devil:
i didn't hide ur pills kell......don't u remember? the TOES are ur pills...chew on the toes!!!!

CooCooCachoo
03-23-2005, 07:22 AM
At least Andy beats Roger at something ;)

Congrats Andy :yeah:

PennyThePenguin
03-23-2005, 07:23 AM
hahah, penny, you are funny, just like your idol Marat

:devil: :devil:

moi? :angel: :angel: i train with the best in the business! :devil:

Mimi
03-23-2005, 07:25 AM
:woohoo: :haha:
moi? :angel: :angel: i train with the best in the business! :devil:

onion
03-23-2005, 07:27 AM
As a joke, a lot of the Andy fans keep calling Andy a jerk because to a lot of people, no matter what he does, people slag him off and call him a spoilt brat and a selfish jerk when he really is a good person :)


I agree. I used to be a huge Roddick fan, but I don't hate him now. I just like other players better! But it seems no matter what Andy does, some sour-pusses on this board will just call him a wa.nker. I do that to Hewitt, but he is a fascist so therefore I think my hatred is justified. :p

But in my eyes, Roddick has not really done anything to consumate this much hate - such as making racist comments towards James Blake...

J. Corwin
03-23-2005, 07:38 AM
What did Roddick ever do to deserve this award??? :confused:;)

foul_dwimmerlaik
03-23-2005, 08:43 AM
It is such a suprise considering that Andy is the jerkiest jerk that ever jerked and I am not talking about jerking off either.

http://pictures.greatestjournal.com/userimg/3594412/758722

What a nasty peice of work! Stone him to death!When was this picture taken? Andy looks positively skinny on it.

foul_dwimmerlaik
03-23-2005, 08:46 AM
I do that to Hewitt, but he is a fascist so therefore I think my hatred is justified. :p:rolleyes:
Don't throw the term around. You clearly don't have a clue about what it means.

Pea
03-23-2005, 10:41 AM
They had to throw him a bone.

blosson
03-23-2005, 10:47 AM
Kell has been misunderstood again! Oh. :sad:

Billabong
03-23-2005, 10:49 AM
lol;)!

pixiedreamer
03-23-2005, 10:53 AM
Sorry Mimi, I should have explained better.

As a joke, a lot of the Andy fans keep calling Andy a jerk because to a lot of people, no matter what he does, people slag him off and call him a spoilt brat and a selfish jerk when he really is a good person :)

But yes, I am an Andy fan and it is a joke :)

Now get my my pills Jiat and stop hiding them from me like a TROLLFACED JERK.

P.S:

http://www.andyroddick.com/images/news/2026image.jpg

JERK!


Oh cool, I hadn't seen that pic of roddick with agassi before :)

*M*
03-23-2005, 11:27 AM
From his most recent press conference:

Q. If you could, talk to us about possibilities that you talked about last year at this tournament, of establishing a foundation or a charitable venture on your own?

ANDY RODDICK: On my own?

Q. A foundation.

ANDY RODDICK: Brother, I've had one for four years now. You should check the books. It's something that I do pretty religiously and focus on a lot. You know, it's something I'll continue to do.

Q. Can I rephrase the question. Would you be kind to tell me what's the agenda for this year, considering that Andre is supporting kids from Vegas and Roger is supporting the kids from South Africa? What is the focus for you for this year?

ANDY RODDICK: Okay. Well, I'll give you a little background real quick. In the last four years, we've raised over $3 million for at-risk youth in South Florida. We're currently in the process of establishing an endowment fund for this place called Kids in Distress, which takes kids from homes where, let's see, the parents are unfit or the court's deem them unfit, whether they're brought up on drug charges, this, that and the other. We have on-site psychiatrists, schooling, computers, food, so on and so forth. And now we're starting an Austin site of the event as well. On April 26th Elton John is going to help us by performing. So we'll keep that going.

syd
03-23-2005, 11:30 AM
nice

euroka1
03-23-2005, 11:57 AM
This will upset people a lot but I do have my doubts about celebrity charity. From the ethical point of view, the best charity is done anonymously. Celebrity charity almost always focusses on the wrong thing, the celebrity. Because of this, the money raised is most often subject to large off-the-top expenses for this one and that one and the celebrities involved do not have the time or the resources (without more off-the-top expenses) to see that they money that is raised for the charity is spent wisely. It is mostly in the hands of the publicity people whose eyes are also on more money making endorsements. On the good side, though, some of the money should filter through to the needy and those participating do have a good time.

If a person wants to be a great philanthropist, he/she should focus on that. If she/he wants to be a great tennis player, that should be the obsession.

Seriously, I'd be interested in other views.

Rogiman
03-23-2005, 12:04 PM
This will upset people a lot but I do have my doubts about celebrity charity. From the ethical point of view, the best charity is done anonymously. Celebrity charity almost always focusses on the wrong thing, the celebrity. Because of this, the money raised is most often subject to large off-the-top expenses for this one and that one and the celebrities involved do not have the time or the resources (without more off-the-top expenses) to see that they money that is raised for the charity is spent wisely. It is mostly in the hands of the publicity people whose eyes are also on more money making endorsements. On the good side, though, some of the money should filter through to the needy and those participating do have a good time.

If a person wants to be a great philanthropist, he/she should focus on that. If she/he wants to be a great tennis player, that should be the obsession.

Seriously, I'd be interested in other views.

So true.

syd
03-23-2005, 12:13 PM
This will upset people a lot but I do have my doubts about celebrity charity. From the ethical point of view, the best charity is done anonymously.

just add that people who wants sincererely share money with other don' t scream it !!! celebrity asks money to "normal" people whereas they can collect more money ........

MissFairy
03-23-2005, 12:23 PM
well said Kell.

syd
03-23-2005, 12:23 PM
i agree with what you say but when you're a celbrity who wins millions dollars, it's not normal to ask money to other ...
and oftenly the celebrity selll their goods instead of giving their own money
And when they give, it's almost nothing !!!

PennyThePenguin
03-23-2005, 12:26 PM
kell :worship: :worship: :worship:

u beat me to saying it :o

though i also have to add that euroka is not entirely wrong. i've seen some celebrities or high profile personalities who "give to charity" grudgingly, only to make themselves look good. but that applies to the "normal" person too.

at the end of the day i gues we jsut have to realise that all these ppl that we raise onto pedestals and worship as "gods" are really very much like us too and like the rest of us roaming around...they're made up of all sorts...generous, not so generous..and pretending to be generous...

MissFairy
03-23-2005, 12:27 PM
i know alot of people expect rich people like Roddick or Federer to give away millions of their prize money in one lump sum, but even though the act would be great, i dont think many accountants would advise it. they do give money, but what is more helpful is they give thier time. this way they are able to raise more money, and consistently rather than all at once, it becomes more of a sustainable commitment.
also what Federer, Roddick and other celebrities the world over have done, is not just throw money at the problem but try making a difference by meeting those affected by whatever they are campaigning for. something that is dealry appreciated, im sure.

PennyThePenguin
03-23-2005, 12:31 PM
i agree with what you say but when you're a celbrity who wins millions dollars, it's not normal to ask money to other ...
and oftenly the celebrity selll their goods instead of giving their own money
And when they give, it's almost nothing !!!

one person alone cannot do much. sure, the celebrity may give millions. but what if he/she's the only one promoting that cause. what happens when one day, his money runs out? what would happen to the kids/disabled/elderly/etc etc etc then? do we just leave them there to fend for themselves?

so celebrities are in a way important to ensure that these organisations will never be neglected and there will always be help for them. i know of many organisations that have fallen by the wayside or have been unable to provide for those under their care simply because they didn't have the financial support to keep going.

i do agree that sometimes too much focus is placed on the celebrity and not the cause. but honestly, it's not entirely the celebrity's fault is it? we all know how the media likes to warp things...

syd
03-23-2005, 12:38 PM
agree with all what you say !!!
just sometimes it's just publicity !
i don' t speak especially about Andy, i think it comes from good intentions!!!

MissFairy
03-23-2005, 12:40 PM
okay, granted, sometimes yes. this time, no :) syd :hug:

euroka1
03-23-2005, 12:43 PM
If I became a celebrity tommorow, I would want to give something back and I am not just saying that. .

Thank you all for your comments. I particularly resonated with the above. But if I did it, for my long term well being, I'd want to do it with as low a profile as possible. I do this with my much more limited donations.

PennyThePenguin
03-23-2005, 12:44 PM
okay, granted, sometimes yes. this time, no :) syd :hug:

wow that was a short response ;) took me a while to fit everything to its proper question/statement :p

hello saraherer!

PennyThePenguin
03-23-2005, 12:45 PM
Thank you all for your comments. I particularly resonated with the above. But if I did it, for my long term well being, I'd want to do it with as low a profile as possible. I do this with my much more limited donations.

i've no doubt u'd do that and mean it :hug:

but it's sometimes hard to get rid of the cameras... silly cameras...:smash:

fangirl
03-23-2005, 12:55 PM
Thank you all for your comments. I particularly resonated with the above. But if I did it, for my long term well being, I'd want to do it with as low a profile as possible. I do this with my much more limited donations.

And that is fine because to each their own - some people like to use their profile, some wouldn't and either way is fine :)

Fumus
03-23-2005, 01:30 PM
Ahh...right...well I told you Fed couldn't always win.

PaulieM
03-23-2005, 02:24 PM
ANDY RODDICK: Okay. Well, I'll give you a little background real quick. In the last four years, we've raised over $3 million for at-risk youth in South Florida. We're currently in the process of establishing an endowment fund for this place called Kids in Distress, which takes kids from homes where, let's see, the parents are unfit or the court's deem them unfit, whether they're brought up on drug charges, this, that and the other. We have on-site psychiatrists, schooling, computers, food, so on and so forth. And now we're starting an Austin site of the event as well. On April 26th Elton John is going to help us by performing. So we'll keep that going.

i never really knew much about his charity but it's good to hear about him supporting a really good cause. congrats andy :bigclap:

euroka1
03-23-2005, 02:25 PM
Ahh...right...well I told you Fed couldn't always win.

Fumus:

But we're in this to watch TENNIS!

Turkeyballs Paco
03-23-2005, 02:46 PM
RE: Quote Originally Posted by onion..."I do that to Hewitt, but he is a fascist so therefore I think my hatred is justified."
__________________

:rolleyes:
Don't throw the term around. You clearly don't have a clue about what it means.

You said it foul_dwimmerlaik! What the hell?

Anyway - good for Andy. Glad to see his work is getting some recognition. He wears the blue wristband for it, I think, and like Lance Armstrong's charity, I think you can buy them, too, just not as easy to find.

MissFairy
03-23-2005, 02:49 PM
yeah the blue band says 'no compromise' and its sold in his proshop on his website, but its not widely sold i believe. he done good :)

i agree that hewitt comment was a little, well harsh is putting it lightly.

alfonsojose
03-23-2005, 04:25 PM
What a relief :spit: This isn't another Roger thread. This is an Andy bashing one :yawn:

tennisinparis
03-23-2005, 05:12 PM
I agree. I am an International Relations student, and we are studying fascism at the moment and it is not just a word to throw around. As much as I dislike Lleyton Hewitt, to compare him to someone like Mussolini is uncalled for.

Completely off topic, but a good piece of useless info, speaking of Benito Mussolini, his granddaughter is running for an elected position in Italy, her name is Alexandra Mussolini(if i am 100% correct). I read it yesterday.

Overall, congrats to all players who contribute, time, money, energy to helping others around the world--it is easier not to help, but these people take this serious (usually). My one comment/question, is it right to reward people for doing this service? i mean is it right to honor one person as being the top contributor to helping others? doesn't that in some fashion cause it to become a race to see who can do/be the best. oh well, as i said earlier, congrats to all--you all are good people in one form or another.

MissFairy
03-23-2005, 05:14 PM
well, actually yeah i see where youre coming from tennisinparis, but i spose the award is sort of in recognition of the good work. and anyone who does the work for the true cause and doesnt win it, wont mind much in theory anyway :)

tennisinparis
03-23-2005, 05:22 PM
well, actually yeah i see where youre coming from tennisinparis, but i spose the award is sort of in recognition of the good work. and anyone who does the work for the true cause and doesnt win it, wont mind much in theory anyway :)

ha ha, i see where you are coming from in this post as well. very true, i guess they all must just keep it in perspective right. they aren't out to win the awards but to do good for others. in that case, agreed.

onion
03-24-2005, 04:19 AM
:rolleyes:
Don't throw the term around. You clearly don't have a clue about what it means.

Sorry if I don't have the masters degree that you clearly do. :rolleyes:

But I do know what it means, I stand by what I said.

Turkeyballs Paco
03-24-2005, 03:26 PM
Sorry if I don't have the masters degree that you clearly do. :rolleyes:

But I do know what it means, I stand by what I said.

hewitt haters usually do stand by whatever bullshit they say... :rolleyes:

onion is a fascist. I stand by what I say!!!

Experimentee
03-24-2005, 03:40 PM
During the tsunami relief efforts I expressed some disagreement at celebrities announcing the amount of their donations to attract attention, like it was some kind of contest, but of course people disagreed with me just because Sharapova was the one involved in that case :rolleyes:
But I think its different where its not just an individual donation, but the setting up of a foundation, or some kind of charity organisation. The fact that the foundation has the celebrities name on it would attract more attention to the cause and make people want to donate which can only be good. So theres no problem with using the names there. But when making a donation like to something like the tsunami, they should keep it anonymous or at least not disclose the amount, like what Roger did.

blosson
03-24-2005, 05:22 PM
Wow everyone has been in very deep thoughts here.

Here are the links of institutions I have helped support. It's not the amount of the donation, the biggest celebrities or the publicity that counts. It's the everyday regular people like me and you who makes them work.

http://www.unicef.org.uk/tsunami/

http://www.wfp.org/how_to_help/donate_online/online.asp?section=4&sub_section=5

Chloe le Bopper
03-24-2005, 07:17 PM
During the tsunami relief efforts I expressed some disagreement at celebrities announcing the amount of their donations to attract attention, like it was some kind of contest, but of course people disagreed with me just because Sharapova was the one involved in that case :rolleyes:
But I think its different where its not just an individual donation, but the setting up of a foundation, or some kind of charity organisation. The fact that the foundation has the celebrities name on it would attract more attention to the cause and make people want to donate which can only be good. So theres no problem with using the names there. But when making a donation like to something like the tsunami, they should keep it anonymous or at least not disclose the amount, like what Roger did.
I agree with this post.

Of course, I'd rather celebrities donate and make a big fuss over it than not donate at all.. but obviously I prefer the ones who keep quiet about it.

Foundations, as you noted, are quite different. Isn't Agassi's school *named* after him? And Hell, why shouldn't it be. I bet he brings in more money and can help more poeple that way :)

Clara Bow
03-24-2005, 07:47 PM
I think that celebrity charity is very important because it can really raise the profile of a cause and bring in money that can help a lot of people.

I agree 100%. I have worked in development (fundraising) in the non-profit sector for a while and the big-name gifts can be very helpful to the recepient organization. I currently work for a non-profit healthcare organization (with several hospitals and clinics- we take the vast majority of uninsured patients in our area -which is a big deal) and we are building a new children's medical center, which is going to have an overall cost of over $100 million. Since we are a non-profit hospital- we need to get a majority of the money for the medical center through fundraising and our campaign for the new children's medical center is in the dozens of millions of dollars. We need to have big name people (be it they are large in the business, entertainment, sports arena, etc.) announce their large gifts because that encourages other donors to make large donations. If people see that a business leader or sports celebrity or whathave you believes in a charity or cause- then that really does motivate people and bring in more donors. Giving begats giving. I'm not saying that no one should be annonymous in their gifts. But- I am saying that if all gifts by well known people were done annonymously- that could be disaster for a campaign. Sure, some celebrites or business leaders announce gifts or talk about their foundation strictly for good PR. But I think that a good many talk about charity out of the sincere hope to raise awareness or funds for really good causes.

And as for celebrities announced information about their own foundation- I'm all for it. If their foundations are well run and sincere (which it seems like Agassi's, Courier's, Roddick's, Federer's, Rafter's, etc. are) then it is great that they try to raise money to do some good and not just have a pithy foundation that doesn't really do anything and is just used for a tax write off. I have found that tennis players are one of most philanthropic groups of atheletes. Even if they have not been able to set up their own foundation, they often help other tennis players at events etc. for their foundations or causes.

euroka1
03-24-2005, 07:54 PM
This has all been very interesting but I still hold the position I had back in posting 32. The last posting looks very grandiose; again, more celebrity than charity. I just hope all the money goes to the right places,

Clara Bow
03-24-2005, 09:51 PM
Sorry- wasn’t trying to be grandiose in my previous post. Just trying to show that attaching names to gifts and/or charities can actually be a really good thing in regards to helping to raise money from others for the charity and is not always just done as PR for the celebrity. And nonprofit organizations NEED money in order to be able to operate. And if an organization received money from either celeb or Joe Schmoe the money will still go to the same place. So I would rather err on the side of raising awareness/funds amoung the public about a charity if a celeb announces a donation or interest rather than having all celebs keep their donations/interest silent and the public not donating as much or being aware about a charity. Raising awareness can just be so important and if a celeb helps to do that for a charity- it does help the charity.

Because of this, the money raised is most often subject to large off-the-top expenses for this one and that one and the celebrities involved do not have the time or the resources (without more off-the-top expenses) to see that they money that is raised for the charity is spent wisely.


But some celebrity foundations can be really good about cutting down the overhead. For example, the 2003 990 form for the Andre Agassi Foundation shows that administrative and fundraising costs accounted for roughly 15.5% of the total expenses for the foundation. The remaining 84.5% went to services (i.e. directly helping kids in the Las Vegas area from a low socio-economic background.) That 15.5% is a good rating. The goal for charities in the US is to be below 25% and below 20% is considered good. I can’t remember which publication- may have been Worth magazine -cited the Agassi Foundation as one of the best-run celebrity charities.

You do have a valid point that some celebrity foundations are horribly run (Jennifer Lopez- I’m looking at you!). But- there are some that are very well run and do a great deal of real good. And for some sports figure foundations to do real good work in the long time- it may be best to strike while the iron is hot. Get the name of the foundation out there while the sports figure is still playing, establish a “name” for the foundation, and when the player retires really allow for the fruition to blossom.


Sorry to sound like a blowhard- but since I have worked for non-profits that need donations in order to do what we do, I just feel strongly about this subject.

euroka1
03-24-2005, 10:47 PM
Thanks very much. I really appreciate having the numbers. 85% is pretty good management! I find it hard to understand why people cannot give for the need rather than for or in the name of the celebrity. But apparently that's human nature.

Clara Bow
03-24-2005, 11:08 PM
I find it hard to understand why people cannot give for the need rather than for or in the name of the celebrity. But apparently that's human nature.

Yeah- quite true. Luckily, there are also folks like blosson, yourself and others who are already be aware of charities without the prodding of a celeb or big name endorsement.

euroka1 I have enjoyed the discussion on this thread you created- it has been fun to read everyone’s thoughts. It is just too bad that we can’t have a sign above big-name folks’ heads when they announce a big gift or charitable involvement that said stuff along the lines of “Really Genuine- Want the Best for The Charity,” “Doing This For Good PR For ME and to Get My Name in The Papers,” or “Have to Do This As Part of My Community Service Because of That Drug Bust- What Charity Is This Again? That would make things easier.

Anyway- back to Andy- good on you on congrats. It is really nice to see young athletes like Roddick, Feds, Kuerten, and other tennis players getting in the philanthropic spirit when they are still quite young.

onion
03-25-2005, 01:31 AM
hewitt haters usually do stand by whatever bullshit they say... :rolleyes:

onion is a fascist. I stand by what I say!!!

And what's with all this Hewitt fans v. Roddick fans or Hewitt haters v. Roddick haters. It's a bit sad. I thought this forum was about expressing opinions. Not being knocked down for them. This is not Iraq.

EDIT: Anyway, I don't care any more. There is so many contradictions in this thread like the quote that I have used. But there are more important things to worry about...there are some good things being discussed in this thread which do not have anything to do with me or fascism so I won't wreck it for people.

PS> Obviously the word "fascist" was an exaggeration - of course Hewitt isn't as bad as the Mussolini or Hitlers of this world...but to me, Hewitt represents a few little things that may relate to the "f" word. That's all I meant. Obviously I won't go into them because this is not the time nor the place.

You Roddick-bashers need to have a look at your own game (not tennis-related) also.

foul_dwimmerlaik
03-25-2005, 09:21 AM
Sorry if I don't have the masters degree that you clearly do. :rolleyes:

But I do know what it means, I stand by what I said.Actually, yes, I do have a degree, but you don't need one to understand this:

http://www.couplescompany.com/Features/Politics/Structure3.htm

and think how in any way can it be applied to Hewitt.

tennisman.
03-25-2005, 02:08 PM
:woohoo:

EternalFlame
03-25-2005, 03:05 PM
Andy is a nice guy for sure. But I don't think he is the only one who made a donation. There are more who don't want to announce it.

onion
03-25-2005, 11:32 PM
Actually, yes, I do have a degree, but you don't need one to understand this:

http://www.couplescompany.com/Features/Politics/Structure3.htm

and think how in any way can it be applied to Hewitt.

I didn't want to talk about this any more but firstly, well done on your degree, but also secondly, I did have a look at that link and it pretty much backs up what I said - this is all my opinion anyway and I won't go into it because it obviously offends people. But I have studied Fascism and all the baddies of this world and plan to write my opinions in newspapers after I finish my degree so watch out lol! Nah, I didn't mean to offend anyone. It's just my opinion and I don't mean to shove it in people's faces. Sorry.