Miami: The Fifth Slam? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Miami: The Fifth Slam?

tennischick
03-21-2005, 05:05 AM
The Fifth Slam?

It comes up every year around this time. Is Miami the "fifth Slam"? That is, is this -- long the largest tournament after the Slams -- in the same league?

Many people give dogmatic responses. We'll try for something a little more nuanced: Our answer is "It is and it isn't." In one way, it's actually become more like the Slams in the past few years: The Slams now have 32 seeds, as Miami has had for years. But the Slams are all currently 128 draws, and Miami is 96. (We should note, of course, that the Slams have used other formats in the past.) The men's matches at Miami are best of three, not best of five. Miami is twelve days long, not fourteen. The Slams offer mixed doubles; Miami no longer does, though it did in the past. And, as of 2004, Indian Wells now follows the same format (96-draws for both men and women) that Miami has used for years, though Miami still has the edge in prize money. So there is still a "format difference" between the Slams and Miami.

Until recently, there hadn't been much difference in the fields. For the men, Miami is generally stronger than Wimbledon; the clay-courters usually find an excuse to skip the grass season, but they don't skip spring hardcourts. On the women's side, until last year, it was stronger than the Australian Open; a lot of top women skip Melbourne (in 2002 and 2003, it was Jelena Dokic, and Amelie Mauresmo was also out in the latter year; in the past, it's been the serve-and-volleyers, Jana Novotna and Nathalie Tauziat).

But last year, with Justine Henin-Hardenne not playing and Kim Clijsters injured, Miami lost a bit on the women's side. And now Lindsay Davenport has backed off playing it. On the other hand, it's almost the only non-Slam where both Williams Sisters play.

But there is another measure of how strong Miami is: The players who have won it. Let's take a look. We'll cut off the list at 1987. Prior to that, there was a large "Lipton Championships," but it wasn't at the current site.

Men's Winners:
2004: Andy Roddick
2003: Andre Agassi
2002: Andre Agassi
2001: Andre Agassi
2000: Pete Sampras
1999: Richard Krajicek
1998: Marcelo Rios
1997: Thomas Muster
1996: Andre Agassi
1995: Andre Agassi
1994: Pete Sampras
1993: Pete Sampras
1992: Michael Chang
1991: Jim Courier
1990: Andre Agassi
1989: Ivan Lendl
1988: Mats Wilander
1987: Miroslav Mecir

Women's Winners:
2004: Serena Williams
2003: Serena Williams
2002: Serena Williams
2001: Venus Williams
2000: Martina Hingis
1999: Venus Williams
1998: Venus Williams
1997: Martina Hingis
1996: Steffi Graf
1995: Steffi Graf
1994: Steffi Graf
1993: Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario
1992: Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario
1991: Monica Seles
1990: Monica Seles
1989: Gabriela Sabatini
1988: Steffi Graf
1987: Steffi Graf

The picture for the women is pretty clear: Every player who has won Miami in its time in Key Biscayne has been a Slam winner (though some had not yet won a Slam at the time of their victory), and all but Gabriela Sabatini won multiple Slams and spent time as the world's #1. This extends before 1987, we might add; before that, Chris Evert and Martina Navratilova took home titles. This isn't true for the other Tier I events; Kimiko Date won the Pan Pacific in 1995; Daniela Hantuchova won Indian Wells in 2002 and Kim Clijsters in 2003 and again this year; Amanda Coetzer won Hilton Head (now Charleston) in 1998; Mary Joe Fernandez won Berlin in 1997 and Amelie Mauresmo won in 2004; Jelena Dokic won Rome in 2001, Kim Clijsters won it in 2003, and Mauresmo took it in 2004; Mauresmo won the Canadian Open in 2002 and 2004 and Pam Shriver won in 1987; Nathalie Tauziat won Moscow in 1999, Jelena Dokic won it in 2001, and Magdalena Maleeva took home the title in 2002 (making it evidently the easiest Tier I for a lesser player to win); and Magdalena Maleeva won Zurich in 1994 and Alicia Molik on 2004...The newest Tier I, San Diego, has has multi-Slam winners every year for the last eight years, but back in its Tier II days, Kimiko Date won it in 1996. On the numbers, in fact, it's actually a bigger feat to win Miami than to win a single Slam.

The men aren't quite as clear-cut; Marcelo Rios never won a Slam, but he was #1; Mecir never won a Slam, but had assorted finals and would have been a genuine candidate except for his back. Every other Miami winner has won Slams; most of them have multiple Slams. It seems pretty clear: If you're good enough to win Miami, you're good enough to win Slams.

And yet, it's worth remembering that Miami is not really the Fifth Slam. Although, historically, it has had fields at least as strong as the Slams, and it still has more prize money than any other non-Slam, under the rules it is simply another tournament -- a Masters for the men, a Tier I for the women. In terms of points, it is exactly identical to the other eight Masters on the men's side, and while the women have different grades of Tier I events, Indian Wells offers as many points as Miami.

And that finally hit home last year, with the weak women's field. This year should be better, but it still won't be back to its glory days. In 2003, Miami probably did qualify as a "fifth Slam," at least in the sense that it was uniquely stronger than anything else. Now -- well, if we were to vote a women's Fifth Slam, it would probably be San Diego or Filderstadt. And it's unlikely that any men's event this year will be stronger than Indian Wells was.

A few years ago, there was talk of shifting Miami to green clay. It's not likely -- but it might well help everyone (except the hardcourt specialists, and even they might be healthier...).

written by JesusLarson...:o

Action Jackson
03-21-2005, 05:11 AM
Only some of the Americans believe it's the 5th Slam. Considering tournaments like Monte Carlo, Rome, Hamburg, Cincinatti and even the Paris Indoor have been around a lot longer than Miami, which didn't even have a permanent venue until recently.

Just because it has a large field doesn't mean it's the 5th Slam. That would mean it's more prestigious than the end of season TMS, which it's everything but.

Roger-No.1
03-21-2005, 05:12 AM
:lol: very acurate title, TC!

It isn't a Slam, but it wants to be one.

Roger-No.1
03-21-2005, 05:21 AM
Sorry, it wants to look like one.

Action Jackson
03-21-2005, 05:23 AM
Sorry, it wants to look like one.

Too true.

Tennis Fool
03-21-2005, 05:26 AM
Question: How much larger is Miami than IW? They always seemed similar to me.

However, I like Miami because CBS shows matches. No other MS gets basic TV treatment. Not even AO gets this.

tennischick
03-21-2005, 05:27 AM
Only some of the Americans believe it's the 5th Slam. Considering tournaments like Monte Carlo, Rome, Hamburg, Cincinatti and even the Paris Indoor have been around a lot longer than Miami, which didn't even have a permanent venue until recently.

Just because it has a large field doesn't mean it's the 5th Slam. That would mean it's more prestigious than the end of season TMS, which it's everything but.
Miami is the 5th slam IMO.

Canada (Toronto/Montreal) is the 6th.

and the end-of-year tourny is the Lucky 7th. i like that ;)

*Ljubica*
03-21-2005, 05:30 AM
Only some of the Americans believe it's the 5th Slam. Considering tournaments like Monte Carlo, Rome, Hamburg, Cincinatti and even the Paris Indoor have been around a lot longer than Miami, which didn't even have a permanent venue until recently.

Just because it has a large field doesn't mean it's the 5th Slam. That would mean it's more prestigious than the end of season TMS, which it's everything but.

I agree 100%. Here in Europe this "5th Slam" thing is never even mentioned. Yes it's big, and yes it has a lot of money thrown at it - but it's no more prestigious or important than any of the other Masters' Series events, - and it certainly isn't a Slam in my opinion.

Action Jackson
03-21-2005, 05:31 AM
Miami is the 5th slam IMO.

Canada (Toronto/Montreal) is the 6th.

and the end-of-year tourny is the Lucky 7th. i like that ;)

What are you basing your theory on that it's the 5th Slam? It's just a marketing term.

It's a TMS event which awards the exactly the same point as the others. I don't hear serious players go wooooooooooooooooooooooo I won the 5th Slam.

There is no 5th Slam and won't be. :)

tennischick
03-21-2005, 05:40 AM
What are you basing your theory on that it's the 5th Slam? It's just a marketing term.

It's a TMS event which awards the exactly the same point as the others. I don't hear serious players go wooooooooooooooooooooooo I won the 5th Slam.

There is no 5th Slam and won't be. :)
then you're not listening hard enuf sweetie. i could've sworn i heard Agassi yell woooohoooo quite a few times :p

actually i think Miami is special mainly bec the Spanish-speaking players feel quite at home in that environment and never avoid playing it. so in a way i think of it as a more "international" tourney than most bec it attracts a wide variety of players -- like most of the Slams. i may be wrong -- i haven't crunched any numbers to arrive at this opinion -- but this is my impression.

Action Jackson
03-21-2005, 05:47 AM
then you're not listening hard enuf sweetie. i could've sworn i heard Agassi yell woooohoooo quite a few times :p

actually i think Miami is special mainly bec the Spanish-speaking players feel quite at home in that environment and never avoid playing it. so in a way i think of it as a more "international" tourney than most bec it attracts a wide variety of players -- like most of the Slams. i may be wrong -- i haven't crunched any numbers to arrive at this opinion -- but this is my impression.

Agassi probably said woo I can pay Gilbert's salary and also I can afford money for the kids when he has won Miami.

Well a larger field would attract more players. I mean the top players are nominated for the TMS automatically.

It might be "international" for a US event, definitely more so than the pensioner classic in Indian Wells, but does not mean that it's the 5th Slam.

Considering the multitude of people living in a smaller place that are around during the clay season, the TMS events before the French are very international, so that argument doesn't wash with me.

Granted the Hispanic population in Miami does give it a different feel which is good, but no way enough to justify it as the 5th slam.

tennischick
03-21-2005, 05:51 AM
Agassi probably said woo I can pay Gilbert's salary and also I can afford money for the kids when he has won Miami.

Well a larger field would attract more players. I mean the top players are nominated for the TMS automatically.

It might be "international" for a US event, definitely more so than the pensioner classic in Indian Wells, but does not mean that it's the 5th Slam.

Considering the multitude of people living in a smaller place that are around during the clay season, the TMS events before the French are very international, so that argument doesn't wash with me.

Granted the Hispanic population in Miami does give it a different feel which is good, but no way enough to justify it as the 5th slam.
crunch some numbers to support your point. but as long as most of the Spanish-speaking dudes show up in addition to Lbj, Mirnyi, Rogi, Knowles (my caribbean sweetie :hearts: ) and Nestor, Safin, and Pavel, i will continue to believe that the world has been adequately represented :p

now i'm off to bed. carry on guys/gals :wavey:

BlackSilver
03-21-2005, 05:52 AM
In my opnion, the fifth most important tournament in the world is Masters Cup, by far. In my point of view to have the eight best ones together makes it well more important than a normal masters series

Roger-No.1
03-21-2005, 05:58 AM
128 players....

Or best 3 of 5 matches.....

They should work on that first, and then the Slam angle.

Will they get there?

Roger-No.1
03-21-2005, 05:59 AM
In my opnion, the fifth most important tournament in the world is Masters Cup, by far. In my point of view to have the eight best ones together makes it well more important than a normal masters series
:yeah:

Action Jackson
03-21-2005, 06:06 AM
128 players....

Or best 3 of 5 matches.....

They should work on that first, and then the Slam angle.

Will they get there?

No, they won't get there.

Fee
03-21-2005, 06:08 AM
No, its not the 5th slam. It may be the 5th biggest party on the tour (with the men and women in one place, the money, the city, etc, etc, etc), but its not a slam. Interesting to float the idea of having it on green clay, but if they did that, it would have to be a week or two after IW wouldn't it? To give people time to change surfaces?

Roger-No.1
03-21-2005, 06:08 AM
No, they won't get there.
:lol:
And I thought someone was going to come and say, yes, they will...

Action Jackson
03-21-2005, 06:11 AM
crunch some numbers to support your point. but as long as most of the Spanish-speaking dudes show up in addition to Lbj, Mirnyi, Rogi, Knowles (my caribbean sweetie :hearts: ) and Nestor, Safin, and Pavel, i will continue to believe that the world has been adequately represented :p


Numbers are absolutely useless the criteria that was shown to reach them has been explained and what purpose would it actually serve in this case?

Miami has never been the 5th Slam or ever will be, it's called marketing and someone as media-savvy as yourself would be aware of this.

I've already said TMC is the most prestigious event after the Slams and there are reasons for this.

Well if you have 96 players wouldn't there be a chance of having some international representation?

The rest of world which there is one when it comes to tennis doesn't buy any argument about the 5th Slam and yes I have been to the odd international event. :)

Roger-No.1
03-21-2005, 06:11 AM
No, its not the 5th slam. It may be the 5th biggest party on the tour (with the men and women in one place, the money, the city, etc, etc, etc), but its not a slam. Interesting to float the idea of having it on green clay, but if they did that, it would have to be a week or two after IW wouldn't it? To give people time to change surfaces?
Green clay.... Maybe one or two International Series between IW and Miami....

Dirk
03-21-2005, 06:16 AM
In my opnion, the fifth most important tournament in the world is Masters Cup, by far. In my point of view to have the eight best ones together makes it well more important than a normal masters series

exactly. more prize money than the slams and more ranking points than a master's event. This is the 5th largest tennis tournament. GWH is also right. Miami "the 5th slam" is just a marketing tool.

tennischick
03-21-2005, 06:24 AM
*TC interrupts brushing her teeth to respond to these bozos*

people!!! you can't define a Slam only by the # of enrolees. yes an official Slam consists of 128 players. but there are unofficial Slams with lesser #'s. but greater (or equal) representation. and tons of money. and terrific atmosphere! and a trophy worth holding aloft that doesn't resemble a fish! and which won't fall apart in your arms! i could go on! but i won't -- i have to go to sleep. :p

more defense of my position tomorrow. or whenever i get a moment to post ;)

Roger-No.1
03-21-2005, 06:29 AM
*TC interrupts brushing her teeth to respond to these bozos*

people!!! you can't define a Slam only by the # of enrolees. yes an official Slam consists of 128 players. but there are unofficial Slams with lesser #'s. but greater (or equal) representation. and tons of money. and terrific atmosphere! and a trophy worth holding aloft that doesn't resemble a fish! and which won't fall apart in your arms! i could go on! but i won't -- i have to go to sleep. :p

more defense of my position tomorrow. or whenever i get a moment to post ;)
We need you here TC. you're trying to make an important point.

In a slam.... 5 set matches need more fitness... and you can have a player ranked 135 in the first round....

Maybe the atmosphere,and the trophy could help your case....

Action Jackson
03-21-2005, 06:30 AM
TC, the board awaits your passionate defences.

Roger-No.1
03-21-2005, 06:35 AM
TC, the board awaits your passionate defences.
:lol:
That post is very funny, GWH

Maybe tomorow....

WyveN
03-21-2005, 06:36 AM
What makes slams "slams" is that just about all players want to win them the most, I haven't heard players aiming to win Miami more then the other TMS and I don't really see a reason as to why it would be more prestigious then the other slams, as has been mentioned its a fairly new event.
Don't think intangibles such as draw size are what makes slams special.

Roger-No.1
03-21-2005, 06:38 AM
What makes slams "slams" is that just about all players want to win them the most, I haven't heard players aiming to win Miami more then the other TMS and I don't really see a reason as to why it would be more prestigious then the other slams, as has been mentioned its a fairly new event.
Don't think intangibles such as draw size are what makes slams special.
Slams are very old too, aren't they?

Action Jackson
03-21-2005, 06:45 AM
Slams are very old too, aren't they?

That they are, but those are the 4 majors that the players need to peak for. I mean the Americans might win Miami more as it's a home event, but it's not the 5th Slam.

Dirk
03-21-2005, 06:50 AM
TC I don't think Roger has broken one of his whale trophies yet. He broke his Milan one though. :lol:

Roger-No.1
03-21-2005, 07:17 AM
TC I don't think Roger has broken one of his whale trophies yet. He broke his Milan one though. :lol:
"The Pacific Life Open was a whale of a tournament....." CEO & Chairman, Pacific Life

bad gambler
03-21-2005, 08:19 AM
a good indicator for whether this is the "fifth" slam if there is such a thing is to see whether safin wants to play some tennis this week.........

Roger-No.1
03-21-2005, 08:45 AM
Is Paris TMS a slam, bg?

bad gambler
03-21-2005, 08:47 AM
Is Paris TMS a slam, bg?


actually paris replaces wimbledon as a slam seeing marat packs it in everytime he sees the green stuff - so i have excluded wimbledon as a slam altogether

Roger-No.1
03-21-2005, 08:51 AM
actually paris replaces wimbledon as a slam seeing marat packs it in everytime he sees the green stuff - so i have excluded wimbledon as a slam altogether
:haha:

Roger-No.1
03-21-2005, 08:53 AM
Maybe Sydney is AO, Lleyton wins every year.

Ferrero Forever
03-21-2005, 09:06 AM
NO-don't give the aussies any ideas, they will change it

Roger-No.1
03-21-2005, 09:10 AM
NO-don't give the aussies any ideas, they will change it
:haha: :rolls:
Ok, ok...

Cervantes
03-21-2005, 10:33 AM
no 5th grand slam without 5-set epics, other than that it's pretty close.

Action Jackson
03-21-2005, 10:36 AM
Close to what cervantes it's a TMS event there are 8 other of them as well.

Rogiman
03-21-2005, 10:37 AM
It's just another TMS event, nothing special about it except that it's usually won by americans, and I highly doubt it when a great player, say, Kefelnikov,retires he thinks: "damn, I haven't won AMS Miami".

Action Jackson
03-21-2005, 10:43 AM
Yes, fine players such as Mecir, Wilander and Muster won it. I wonder if Mecir would have rather have won a proper Slam instead of this event?

Rogiman
03-21-2005, 10:52 AM
Yes, fine players such as Mecir, Wilander and Muster won it. I wonder if Mecir would have rather have won a proper Slam instead of this event?

No way!
No one would give away their Fifth Slam :angel: title .
Remember it's a huge tournament where all the international players feel at home blah blah blah...

Sorry TC

Roger-No.1
03-21-2005, 10:52 AM
and I highly doubt it when a great player retires he thinks: "damn, I haven't won AMS Miami".
:lol:

Action Jackson
03-21-2005, 10:54 AM
No way!
No one would give away their Fifth Slam :angel: title .
Remember it's a huge tournament where all the international players feel at home blah blah blah...

Sorry TC

Yes, Miloslav is so overjoyed by winning the 5th Slam it makes up for his losses at the AO and US Open final, and the fact he lead 2 sets to love against Edberg and a break in the 5th at Wimbledon.

The victory in the 5th Slam made up for it. Thanks for setting me straight.

Rogiman
03-21-2005, 10:56 AM
Yes, Miloslav is so overjoyed by winning the 5th Slam it makes up for his losses at the AO and US Open final, and the fact he lead 2 sets to love against Edberg and a break in the 5th at Wimbledon.

The victory in the 5th Slam made up for it. Thanks for setting me straight.

:lol:

Roger-No.1
03-21-2005, 10:59 AM
Still waiting for TC

She had her own reasons....

Cervantes
03-21-2005, 10:59 AM
Close to what cervantes it's a TMS event there are 8 other of them as well.

close to a slam: both men and women play together, two week event, 96 draw, every top 20 player in the draw, over $500.000 for the winner, a 14.000 seat stadium. which other TMS event can come up with those numbers?

Rogiman
03-21-2005, 11:02 AM
close to a slam: both men and women play together, two week event, 96 draw, every top 20 player in the draw, over $500.000 for the winner, a 14.000 seat stadium. which other TMS event can come up with those numbers?

Still it's not more prestigious than any other TMS tournament, just more grandiose.

Action Jackson
03-21-2005, 11:09 AM
close to a slam: both men and women play together, two week event, 96 draw, every top 20 player in the draw, over $500.000 for the winner, a 14.000 seat stadium. which other TMS event can come up with those numbers?

So what if it's a combined event they have 4 big ones where that happens.
Indian Wells has a bigger stadium capacity. I see your tennis is only good on hardcourts is coming through clearly.

It's a new event, didn't have a permanent home. Dubai has plenty of prizemoney, what does that prove? Just cause it has money, doesn't mean it's any more prestigious than the other TMS events. If this is more prestigious than any of the 3 clay events then you are kidding yourself.

It's a TMS and that's all it is.

Rogiman
03-21-2005, 11:15 AM
So what if it's a combined event they have 4 big ones where that happens.
Indian Wells has a bigger stadium capacity. I see your tennis is only good on hardcourts is coming through clearly.

It's a new event, didn't have a permanent home. Dubai has plenty of prizemoney, what does that prove? Just cause it has money, doesn't mean it's any more prestigious than the other TMS events. If this is more prestigious than any of the 3 clay events then you are kidding yourself.

It's a TMS and that's all it is.

Then how do you explain the winners of this event have always been refered to as "Former TMS Miami champion" :angel:?

Rogiman
03-21-2005, 11:16 AM
Also, since Agassi has won this event 6 times it's totally clear who the greatest of all times is, and as long as Federer doesn't win it he's out of contention!

Action Jackson
03-21-2005, 11:18 AM
Then how do you explain the winners of this event have always been refered to as "Former TMS Miami champion" :angel:?

Yes, that guy who won 3 Slams in 88 was best remembered for being the Miami Champion of that year. Also that bald guy who used to have a mullet and won a Career GS, his best ever achievement and one he lauds the most is being the 6 time Miami champion.

Neely
03-21-2005, 11:56 AM
It isn't a Slam, but it's widely regarded as the most important TMS. I agree.

Rogiman
03-21-2005, 12:02 PM
It isn't a Slam, but it's widely regarded as the most important TMS. I agree.

"The most important TMS"??? :confused:
Based on what...?
Are better players playing it or is it because it offers more ranking points...?
How exactly is it superior to AMS Rome for instance?

Action Jackson
03-21-2005, 12:05 PM
Last time I looked all the TMS events had the same amount of points allocated, so how is it any more important than the others?

I think Guga is shattered that he never won Miami, it leaves his heart heavy that he never did it.

Rogiman
03-21-2005, 12:09 PM
Last time I looked all the TMS events had the same amount of points allocated, so how is it any more important than the others?

I think Guga is shattered that he never won Miami, it leaves his heart heavy that he never did it.

So true... :sad:
He knows something is missing, and then he realises: :eek: "Miami, I haven't gotten one! What a pathetic Grand Slam champion I am"...

~EMiLiTA~
03-21-2005, 12:09 PM
no...it's a try-hard 5th slam that will never come to fruition

it's not held in the same regard as the slams and doesn't form a corner stone of the season like the slams do...no one really specifically aspires to winning it like they do wimbledon, RG etc...it's just another masters that happens to have more money and more players...but, contrary to what organisers may say, not more prestige

bah...these 4 weeks drag on wayyy too long for my liking anyway...bring on the euro clay tournies...

WyveN
03-21-2005, 12:09 PM
It isn't a Slam, but it's widely regarded as the most important TMS. I agree.

By who?
Haven't heard any players mention last week how their anxious to peak for Miami.

Action Jackson
03-21-2005, 12:12 PM
By who?
Haven't heard any players mention last week how their anxious to peak for Miami.

But Miami is the 5th Slam, us philistines must be reminded of this.

Action Jackson
03-21-2005, 12:13 PM
So true... :sad:
He knows something is missing, and then he realises: :eek: "Miami, I haven't gotten one! What a pathetic Grand Slam champion I am"...

Guga won RG 3x, he won the triple crown of Hamburg, Monte Carlo and Rome at least once, plus he won that thing called the TMC.

He's a failure cause he never won Miami.

Cervantes
03-21-2005, 12:14 PM
So what if it's a combined event they have 4 big ones where that happens.
Indian Wells has a bigger stadium capacity. I see your tennis is only good on hardcourts is coming through clearly.

It's a new event, didn't have a permanent home. Dubai has plenty of prizemoney, what does that prove? Just cause it has money, doesn't mean it's any more prestigious than the other TMS events. If this is more prestigious than any of the 3 clay events then you are kidding yourself.

It's a TMS and that's all it is.

Who's saying anything about hardcourt? I think it's the other way around, you can't stand those American hardcourt events and therefore they suck, right? But we've had this discussion before and I don't want to get into any surface debates cause that's a waste of time anyway.

I'm not saying stadium capacity or prize money alone determines whether it's a prestigious event, it's a combination of all things included in my previous post. And Miami also lacks a number of important features, like history for example or extensive media coverage like the slams have, that's why I don't think it should be called the 5th GS. But still if any tournament had to be called a 5th GS it'd have to be either IW or Miami cause they have a two week tournament and both men and women playing at the same time.

And about whether it's more prestigious than any other TMS event, I don't really think players care which of those tournaments they win cause they're all great. I think each player will have his own personal favorite event, depending on nationality, ability and mentality.

Rogiman
03-21-2005, 12:14 PM
Guga won RG 3x, he won the triple crown of Hamburg, Monte Carlo and Rome at least once, plus he won that thing called the TMC.

He's a failure cause he never won Miami.

Miami kind of puts everything in different perspective :angel:

:tape:

WyveN
03-21-2005, 12:15 PM
At least now I know why Borg made that strange comeback in the early 90s, he wanted to win Miami at the new location.

Cervantes
03-21-2005, 12:18 PM
Guga won RG 3x, he won the triple crown of Hamburg, Monte Carlo and Rome at least once, plus he won that thing called the TMC.

He's a failure cause he never won Miami.

Can't win 'm all, although he did come close one year. I've heard Guga say in an interview he wants to give it another go next year, to complete his carreer.

btw, Andy Roddick was player of the season last year cause he won this tournament ;)

Action Jackson
03-21-2005, 12:19 PM
Who's saying anything about hardcourt? I think it's the other way around, you can't stand those American hardcourt events and therefore they suck, right? But we've had this discussion before and I don't want to get into any surface debates cause that's a waste of time anyway.


Yes, my comment before was as irrelevant as anyone geniunely believing Miami could ever be considered a 5th Slam. Considering I actually would prefer more surface variation and the fact these tournaments being in the calendar don't serve any real purpose. Yes, I can talk about players I don't like relating to their games, same as surface as well.

But still if any tournament had to be called a 5th GS it'd have to be either IW or Miami cause they have a two week tournament and both men and women playing at the same time.

No tournament deserves or even should be going around calling themselves the 5th Slam. Big deal it's a combined event, what does that prove? There are 4 big ones during the year, it doesn't increase its significance.

Action Jackson
03-21-2005, 12:20 PM
At least now I know why Borg made that strange comeback in the early 90s, he wanted to win Miami at the new location.

Yes, winning Miami was more important than attempting to win those US Opens.

Cervantes
03-21-2005, 12:24 PM
Just for the record, GWH, I don't consider Miami the 5th GS. When they start playing best of five throughout the tournament, then I'll consider it as the 5th GS.

Action Jackson
03-21-2005, 12:27 PM
Even when they were playing best of 5 in the early stages, it still wasn't the 5th slam. It's strange that the concept of having 4 Slams seems to be new to some people.

Billabong
03-21-2005, 12:35 PM
I definitely don't see it as a fifth slam, but a very interesting Masters event:)!

Rogiman
03-21-2005, 12:41 PM
So, I take it Roger can still win four Grand Slam titles this year! :yeah:

Action Jackson
03-21-2005, 12:42 PM
Yes, Roger can complete the Slam this year.

Rogiman
03-21-2005, 12:45 PM
Maybe next year he'll go for all five - has Laver done that? :shrug:

*Ljubica*
03-21-2005, 12:45 PM
So, I take it Roger can still to win four Grand Slam titles this year! :yeah:

:haha: :haha:

Have to say I agree with everything you and GWH are saying here - just very busy at work today so I can't really join in the discussion - but Miami will never be a Grand Slam in my eyes.

Neely
03-21-2005, 12:46 PM
"The most important TMS"??? :confused:
Based on what...?
Are better players playing it or is it because it offers more ranking points...?
How exactly is it superior to AMS Rome for instance?
Based on what people generally say. It was done here in the forum a few times and tendencies clearly went to either Miami, Rome or Indian Wells. Also if I went with this question to a tennis club, I'm sure it would concentrate pretty much on these three. I think also to consider here is the draw size and the superious prize money. For others "importance" is different and they go for history (Rome). Anyway, the term "importance" allows many interpretations, it's useless to argue about that.

Of course, each TMS offers the same amount of ranking points, but as we know ranking points aren't everything when it comes to prestige and importance. For example, Rotterdam usually has a much stronger field than Memphis, yet they offer the same amount of ranking points.

Also a familiar example is with Wimbledon being regarded as the most prestigeous Grand Slam, especially if somebody has won different Slams. Pay attention how Boris Becker is usually introduced. They don't say "an Australian Open, a Wimbledon and a US Open Champions along with some good runs at RG", most of the times they just mention "Boris Becker, multiple Wimbledon Champ". Wimbledon is rather regareded more important/prestigeous (call it whatever) than most other Slams.


After confusing and never stopping talk about the "5th Grand Slam", maybe I should again point out that I also don't see it as a 5th Grand Slam as there are only four.

Action Jackson
03-21-2005, 12:47 PM
Maybe next year he'll go for all five - has Laver done that? :shrug:

Laver never did that and I for one believe he is shattered by that.

Rogiman
03-21-2005, 12:53 PM
Laver never did that and I for one believe he is shattered by that.

Agassi is the only player to have completed a Real career Grand Slam then! :eek:

Andre Agassi - Multiple AMS Miami Champion :bowdown:

Action Jackson
03-21-2005, 12:55 PM
Based on what people generally say. It was done here in the forum a few times and tendencies clearly went to either Miami, Rome or Indian Wells. Also if I went with this question to a tennis club, I'm sure it would concentrate pretty much on these three. I think also to consider here is the draw size and the superious prize money. For others "importance" is different and they go for history (Rome). Anyway, the term "importance" allows many interpretations, it's useless to argue about that.

You are serious aren't you? What the American populace say is not what the tennis world says? Since when has that been one and the same.

If I went to various tennis clubs it wouldn't be that hard to get different responses, it's easy word the question a certain way to get the response you want or target a likely area to that will give you that answer. It's inconclusive and since when has MTF been the barometer of credibility?

So what it has plenty of prizemoney. If Dubai became a TMS event it could easily pour more money into the tournament than any of the TMS events now, but it wouldn't mean it was the best.

Of course, each TMS offers the same amount of ranking points, but as we know ranking points aren't everything when it comes to prestige and importance. For example, Rotterdam usually has a much stronger field than Memphis, yet they offer the same amount of ranking points.

How is an event like Miami prestigious when it has only been around since 1986? There needs to be a bit of history, before it can become prestigious.

Also a familiar example is with Wimbledon being regarded as the most prestigeous Grand Slam, especially if somebody has won different Slams. Pay attention how Boris Becker is usually introduced. They don't say "an Australian Open, a Wimbledon and a US Open Champions along with some good runs at RG", most of the times they just mention "Boris Becker, multiple Wimbledon Champ". Wimbledon is rather regareded more important/prestigeous (call it whatever) than most other Slams.

Becker couldn't win on clay. Tennis is dominated by the English-language media and of course they are going to propagate the great Wimbledon myth, even though at the moment, the reality isn't as good as it was. It's the most historic and is definitely prestigious, but how does that relate to this particular thread.

Angle Queen
03-21-2005, 12:58 PM
Agassi is the only player to have completed a Real career Grand Slam then! :eek:

Andre Agassi - Multiple AMS Miami Champion :bowdown:Hey now. What about Mrs Andre Agassi? She's got Olympic Gold too. Know this is MTF...not the other...but I couldn't resist.

I'm with ya, Rogi, I don't think Miami is a 5th Slam. Until they start giving out the same number of points, run for two weeks, and play best-of-five...it ain't there. This ain't grenades...where close...counts.

Rogiman
03-21-2005, 01:04 PM
Hey now. What about Mrs Andre Agassi? She's got Olympic Gold too. Know this is MTF...not the other...but I couldn't resist.

I'm with ya, Rogi, I don't think Miami is a 5th Slam. Until they start giving out the same number of points, run for two weeks, and play best-of-five...it ain't there. This ain't grenades...where close...counts.

There are 4 Grand Slam events, there is no need in more than that.
I would say some non-masters events are easily more unique for either their location (Kitzbühel) or hospitability (Dubai) than Miami.

Neely
03-21-2005, 01:05 PM
You are serious aren't you? What the American populace say is not what the tennis world says? Since when has that been one and the same.
No of course not, I just took it as an example. For me personally Miami is "bigger" than Madrid, Paris, Toronto etc... You are allowed to think about that whatever you want.

BTW, neither I am American, nor is this board American.


So what it has plenty of prizemoney. If Dubai became a TMS event it could easily pour more money into the tournament than any of the TMS events now, but it wouldn't mean it was the best.
of course Dubai could do that.... and IF they also had a big draw which required to win six or seven matches in order to win the whole thing, then yes, Dubai would be in big contention for a really important TMS. But remember it's all about IF...



How is an event like Miami prestigious when it has only been around since 1986? There needs to be a bit of history, before it can become prestigious.
You are saying that with the history. Still you get a lot of respect when winning a TMS with such a huge draw, lots of prize money that almost goes two weeks. It doesn't matter if it's around since 86 or since 1920.

Action Jackson
03-21-2005, 01:13 PM
No of course not, I just took it as an example. For me personally Miami is "bigger" than Madrid, Paris, Toronto etc... You are allowed to think about that whatever you want.

BTW, neither I am American, nor is this board American.

For you it's bigger, it doesn't mean it is or even justify calling itself the 5th Slam. This board is American and I'd say the majority of the people here would be, even though it's a very international board and that's not important at all.

Do you think I am that stupid that I forgot where you are from?

of course Dubai could do that.... and IF they also had a big draw which required to win six or seven matches in order to win the whole thing, then yes, Dubai would be in big contention for a really important TMS. But remember it's all about IF...

It wouldn't be hard for them to upgrade and handle a TMS event, but it's not the point, just because it had plenty of money doesn't mean it's the best tournament.

You are saying that with the history. Still you get a lot of respect when winning a TMS with such a huge draw, lots of prize money that almost goes two weeks. It doesn't matter if it's around since 86 or since 1920.

It takes more to win 6 matches in 7 days than the with the extra days breaks, especially at a clay TMS, but this is Miami it's a TMS and that's all it is. Not a 5th Slam, not even close to a 5th Slam, good for the players that win any TMS event.

~EMiLiTA~
03-21-2005, 01:14 PM
Agassi is the only player to have completed a Real career Grand Slam then! :eek:

Andre Agassi - Multiple AMS Miami Champion :bowdown:

:lol:

Action Jackson
03-21-2005, 01:17 PM
Agassi is the only player to have completed a Real career Grand Slam then! :eek:

Andre Agassi - Multiple AMS Miami Champion :bowdown:

Agassi is better than Laver now, because he won Miami all those times.

Blaze
03-21-2005, 01:35 PM
If Miami is considered the fifth slam than Agassi has tied Pete with 14 Grandslams (His eight original + 6 Miami's) :eek:

Neely
03-21-2005, 01:44 PM
For you it's bigger, it doesn't mean it is or even justify calling itself the 5th Slam. This board is American and I'd say the majority of the people here would be, even though it's a very international board and that's not important at all.
Yes, for me Miami is the "biggest" TMS of all. If I were a player and if I could have just one TMS title next to my name, I would go for Miami, rather than Hamburg, Paris, Madrid etc.

And no, I didn't try to justify Miami as the "5th Grand Slam" when saying that Miami is the biggest TMS (because of big draw, one and a half week tournament, good money). I've pointed out twice already that I don't think so. But okay, as talking now, I already mentioned it a third time.

Action Jackson
03-21-2005, 01:49 PM
Yes, for me Miami is the "biggest" TMS of all. If I were a player and if I liked to have just one TMS title next to my name, I would go for Miami, rather than Hamburg, Paris, Madrid etc.

That's only because it suits a particular game that you like, that's your choice. There are many reasons as to why Miami isn't the biggest TMS and these have been explained, sure players want to win it, but they are not going to be shattered if they win Slams and not win there.

And no, I didn't try to justify Miami as the "5th Grand Slam" when saying that Miami is the biggest TMS (because of big draw, one and a half week tournament, good money). I've pointed out twice already that I don't think so. But okay, as talking now, I already mentioned it a third time.

You need to mention it a 4th and a 5th time. Indian wells has the same draw, big money and it doesn't make it any better because of it. I've got more respect for someone winning Toronto/Montreal or Cincinatti than Miami as they have to play virtually every day and if lucky only have 1 day off, though unlike the clay TMS events, the best of 5 final isn't in force.

Neely
03-21-2005, 02:00 PM
There are many reasons as to why Miami isn't the biggest TMS and these have been explained
Exactly, and on the other hand, reasons have been mentioned by me why I see Miami as the "biggest TMS".

Action Jackson
03-21-2005, 02:04 PM
Exactly, and on the other hand, reasons have been mentioned by me why I see Miami as the "biggest TMS".

If it had more points than the others, then I'd more than likely say yes, but they don't. They're all worth the same, so it's not bigger or anymore prestigious than any of the other TMS events.

There is nothing that has been produced so far that is even come close to convincing that there is a case that this is the 5th Slam, so when that fails you and some of the true believers are going for the "biggest TMS" angle. I am not surprised.

RonE
03-21-2005, 02:36 PM
At one point Miami had a 128 player draw and all matches were best of five sets- perhaps this term was coined back then and the label just stuck.

This one for GWH and Rogiman:
Isn't it amazing how Muster silenced all his critics who labeled him a "one-horse pony that couldn't win a match off clay to save his life" by finally winning a slam on hardcourts in 1997? :yeah:

tennischick
03-21-2005, 02:36 PM
GWH honey i could provide 20 pages of evidence, i still couldn't convince you. :kiss:

Miami is not the 5th slam in any literal sense. but figuratively speaking it is. and if you keep searching for literal evidence to support a figurative statement well then...[insert rolleyes smiley here]

no i don't believe that Mats the Cold Fish and Co. are losing any sleep over not winning in Miami. but i think that players that win in Miami feel that they have accomplished something special, somehting more than just another TMS event. and they're right. sure Federer's career will be fine without a Miami win. but it would be more complete with it. and no i don't believe that i am falling for mere media marketing. give me a little credit will ya. sheesh. this is my own opinion -- and i believe that the majority of the players on the ATP and WTA tours think likewise which is why this is the one TMS event that no-one who is anyone misses. heck Henin-Hardenne is checking herself out of her sick-bed as i type just to make sure she makes Miami. she knows better than to miss the 5th Slam :p

Neely
03-21-2005, 02:37 PM
so when that fails you and some of the true believers are going for the "biggest TMS" angle. I am not surprised.
I never tried to justify Miami as a 5th Grand Slam, I immediately went for the "biggest TMS" angle and I see nothing wrong about that as this is my opinion and I tried to make you clear it clear why it is, mostly because of objective reasons as this is personal view. This is all I could do when somebody is asking a question in a thread like this and I don't expect that you or everybody else agree.

tennischick
03-21-2005, 02:37 PM
At one point Miami had a 128 player draw and all matches were best of five sets- perhaps this term was coined back then and the label just stuck.

i didn't know this. that's makes a whole lotta sense. ;)

Action Jackson
03-21-2005, 02:40 PM
At one point Miami had a 128 player draw and all matches were best of five sets- perhaps this term was coined back then and the label just stuck.

This one for GWH and Rogiman:
Isn't it amazing how Muster silenced all his critics who labeled him a "one-horse pony that couldn't win a match off clay to save his life" by finally winning a slam on hardcourts in 1997? :yeah:

Thank you Ron, the voice of reason has come through. Yes, initially it did in the early years when Mayotte, Mecir, Wilander won it and they tried to use it as a tool, but it never will be.

Yes, Muster well that had a human interest story to it, where he injured his knee and came back and won his last tournament ever.

According to the esteemed within the larger tennis community he did win a Slam on hardcourts. How irreverent of me not to realise this?

Action Jackson
03-21-2005, 02:48 PM
GWH honey i could provide 20 pages of evidence, i still couldn't convince you. :kiss:

It's not about convincing me at all, that is far from important.

Miami is not the 5th slam in any literal sense. but figuratively speaking it is. and if you keep searching for literal evidence to support a figurative statement well then...[insert rolleyes smiley here]

Who is the one calling it the 5th Slam? Yes, the size of the draw, money, combined event and all that were known before and have been explained clearly by other posters claiming that it's something so special.

no i don't believe that Mats the Cold Fish and Co. are losing any sleep over not winning in Miami. but i think that players that win in Miami feel that they have accomplished something special, somehting more than just another TMS event. and they're right.

Rios won Miami and not a Slam, I wonder what he'd rather have?

sure Federer's career will be fine without a Miami win. but it would be more complete with it. and no i don't believe that i am falling for mere media marketing. give me a little credit will ya. sheesh. this is my own opinion -- and i believe that the majority of the players on the ATP and WTA tours think likewise which is why this is the one TMS event that no-one who is anyone misses. heck Henin-Hardenne is checking herself out of her sick-bed as i type just to make sure she makes Miami. she knows better than to miss the 5th Slam :p

The timing of the event has everything in it's favour and of course players are going to be chasing the cash. Ok, I've been to a few tournaments in a few continents and I have hardly heard anyone say that it's the 5th Slam. :)

It's like some players value the claycourt events more and vice versa for the fastcourters. I don't care about the WTA, it might mean more to them if anything.

Neely
03-21-2005, 02:49 PM
According to the esteemed within the larger tennis community he did win a Slam on hardcourts. How irreverent of me not to realise this?
Well George, the people who are seriously considering Miami as a 5th Grand Slam are clearly in the minority so far. So you shouldn't be too hard on yourself ;)

Action Jackson
03-21-2005, 02:54 PM
Well George, the people who are seriously considering Miami as a 5th Grand Slam are clearly in the minority so far. So you shouldn't be too hard on yourself ;)

Laver and Borg never won Miami, whereas Agassi won the Career Slam, this plus a balding Austrian won a Slam on a hardcourt, not bad for a guy who could only play on clay :p

Experimentee
03-21-2005, 03:00 PM
I think Miami just gets compared to Slams because of the size of the draw. Its about on an equal standing in prestige as some other TMS events, and the Masters Cup is better to win than Miami IMO.

Socket
03-21-2005, 03:13 PM
It's just a marketing slogan to help sell tickets; nothing of geo-political importance is intended. Is advertising hype really that hard to detect?

tennischick
03-21-2005, 05:02 PM
...Rios won Miami and not a Slam, I wonder what he'd rather have?
i'm assuming he'd rather have a Slam, especially as it would have validated his #1 status. but i'm also certain that he is deservedly proud of having the 5th Slam on his resume. :p

Rogiman
03-21-2005, 05:12 PM
i'm assuming he'd rather have a Slam, especially as it would have validated his #1 status. but i'm also certain that he is deservedly proud of having the 5th Slam on his resume. :p

He'd rather win Monte-Carlo though :p

tennischick
03-21-2005, 05:15 PM
He'd rather win Monte-Carlo though :p
nah he had a shitty attitude in Monte Carlo when Guga was spanking his ass. :lol:

now i'm off to the office like normal people. cya :wavey:

Rogiman
03-22-2005, 11:09 AM
*Bump*

I've enjoyed this discussion, don't let it die yet ;)

Cervantes
03-22-2005, 11:14 AM
*Bump*

I've enjoyed this discussion, don't let it die yet ;)

What more is there to discuss, I think everybody knows Miami is the one that counts, despite what GWH may say. ;)

Rogiman
03-22-2005, 11:23 AM
Clear a wall at the Hall Of Fame for Andy Roddick, the 2004 Miami Champion!

RonE
03-22-2005, 11:30 AM
Clear a wall at the Hall Of Fame for Andy Roddick, the 2004 Miami Champion!

I think they should also make the trophy presentation this year extra special for the upcoming slam winner whoever it may be- roll out a red carpet for the winner with a big loud trumpet fanfare, coat the trophy in gold and have Rod Laver, Ken Rosewal, Guillermo Vilas and Bjorn Borg all line up waiting to kneel before the champion and kiss his feet. Oh, and I also think some members of the Royal Family should be present so that the champion could then be knighted :)

Rogiman
03-22-2005, 11:35 AM
I think they should also make the trophy presentation this year extra special for the upcoming slam winner whoever it may be- roll out a red carpet for the winner with a big loud trumpet fanfare, coat the trophy in gold and have Rod Laver, Ken Rosewal, Guillermo Vilas and Bjorn Borg all line up waiting to kneel before the champion and kiss his feet. Oh, and I also think some members of the Royal Family should be present so that the champion could then be knighted :)

I bet the burst of emotions the winner is due to experience will eclipse Roger's tears at 2003 Wimbledon big time.
I also expect the winner to jump over to his entourage's box and carry his speech in spanish, since it's such a cosmopolitical event! :angel:

Yoda
03-22-2005, 12:41 PM
Another matter to clear up is the question of money.
Miami's Men's champion will recieve a winner's cheque of $533, 350
If we take the current exchange rate (1 US Dollar = 0.75959 Euros) this works out to 405, 127 Euros.
Which works out to 2% greater than the Monte Carlo, Rome & Hamburg (396, 000 Euros)
But less than Paris (445, 500 Euros) and a lot less than Masters Cup in Shanghai.

Personally I don't think money plays any significant role in prestige in any of the TMC tournaments.

The 5th most important title is the Masters Cup in Shanghai by a long way.
And my personally choice for the next in prestige is Paris (coz its played on Carpet and is Indoors)

Yoda
03-22-2005, 12:49 PM
And size of draw does not really impact on the top seeded players because they get to play the lame ass losers called BYE :devil:

RonE
03-22-2005, 01:20 PM
And size of draw does not really impact on the top seeded players because they get to play the lame ass losers called BYE :devil:

That is horribly cruel- you cannot blame poor Mr BYE's misfortunes without considering all the horrible injuries he has been thorugh. Shame on you! Long live BYE :crying:

Action Jackson
03-23-2005, 02:37 AM
What more is there to discuss, I think everybody knows Miami is the one that counts, despite what GWH may say. ;)

Repeat 'Dreamer, you are nothing but a dreamer".

Billabong
03-23-2005, 02:39 AM
I always liked Miami:)! Very fun to watch and last big tourney before the clay season:D!

Roger-No.1
03-23-2005, 02:39 AM
It's just a marketing slogan to help sell tickets; nothing of geo-political importance is intended. Is advertising hype really that hard to detect?

:worship:

-ernie-
03-23-2005, 02:42 AM
Indian Wells is just as big! Plus Hantuchova won that tital once so i like it even more ;)

tennischick
03-23-2005, 02:48 AM
What more is there to discuss, I think everybody knows Miami is the one that counts, despite what GWH may say. ;)
of course it is. all of the TMS events are heavily marketed -- yet Miami continues to stand out. everyone who is anyone shows up -- unless they're having toe problems -- proof enuf for this chick. ;)

speaking of toes -- anyone who saw the "Facing Federer" video, which was filmed during the end-of-year TMS event in Houston -- would have seen that Hewitt was having toe problems since then. there is a shot of him having his toes individually wrapped to protect them and he made a comment that he had lost the same toenail a couple of times. (there was also a shot of Henman's feet but Hewitt's feet win that contest IMO :o ) so the Potato making it to the finals of Indian Wells is truly amazing. and i truly understand why he can't play Miami.

Action Jackson
03-23-2005, 02:56 AM
I think they should also make the trophy presentation this year extra special for the upcoming slam winner whoever it may be- roll out a red carpet for the winner with a big loud trumpet fanfare, coat the trophy in gold and have Rod Laver, Ken Rosewal, Guillermo Vilas and Bjorn Borg all line up waiting to kneel before the champion and kiss his feet. Oh, and I also think some members of the Royal Family should be present so that the champion could then be knighted :)

I hope they release special DVDs for this event, the national anthem needs to be sung, there should be an escort for all these players guys like Borg, McEnroe, Laver, Newcombe, Vilas, Nastase, should form on both sides as a walkway so that they can bow to the winner of Miami.

After they have done this then just like in Roman times they should be carried by all these people and the Miami champion will rise above all and be shown what it really means to win this event and the fact that the above players didn't win it and it shows how incomplete their careers really are.

tennischick
03-23-2005, 03:00 AM
I hope they release special DVDs for this event, the national anthem needs to be sung, there should be an escort for all these players guys like Borg, McEnroe, Laver, Newcombe, Vilas, Nastase, should form on both sides as a walkway so that they can bow to the winner of Miami.

After they have done this then just like in Roman times they should be carried by all these people and the Miami champion will rise above all and be shown what it really means to win this event and the fact that the above players didn't win it and it shows how incomplete their careers really are.
it's already the Fifth Slam. there's no need for all this extra bacchanal :p

Action Jackson
03-23-2005, 03:03 AM
it's already the Fifth Slam. there's no need for all this extra bacchanal :p

As long as you think so. Even there have been many logical reasons as to why this is not the case, but hey as long as you think it's the 5th Slam that's all that counts.

tennischick
03-23-2005, 03:06 AM
As long as you think so. Even there have been many logical reasons as to why this is not the case, but hey as long as you think it's the 5th Slam that's all that counts.
this is really important to you isn't it? :o :o

:wavey: :wavey:

Action Jackson
03-23-2005, 03:16 AM
I am laughing at this thread, it has been a good distraction.

Havok
03-23-2005, 03:27 AM
Actually, the reason why Christine is playing in Miami is because she can get her special seeding ranks, as if she had entered IW she wouldn't have quite made it to 6 months yet.

*sigh* The ongoing nausea of almost identical post after post from like 3 people in this forum just made me skip to the last page to see if anybody else was posting shit in here. Miami, and IW (of the past 2 years) are the two tournaments that come the closest to resembling Slams. Yes the reason why it's called the "5th Slam" is all due to the media pushing this event, and had IW had the type of draw it does now before it would have prob been called the "co-5th Slam" or the "6th Slam". Does that make it a slam, no not really, but what's it to you if people reffer to it as the "5th slam" just based on the way it looks? Though Miami doesn't really come close to the history and "prestige" if you say, of events like the Canadian TMS or Rome. There are 4 slams throughout the year, everything else falls into its own categories (TMC, TMS, ISG, IS) and thats that.

Action Jackson
03-23-2005, 03:32 AM
It's just a marketing slogan to help sell tickets; nothing of geo-political importance is intended. Is advertising hype really that hard to detect?

You'll be banned for making sense.

Havok
03-23-2005, 03:43 AM
of course it is. all of the TMS events are heavily marketed -- yet Miami continues to stand out. everyone who is anyone shows up -- unless they're having toe problems -- proof enuf for this chick. ;)

speaking of toes -- anyone who saw the "Facing Federer" video, which was filmed during the end-of-year TMS event in Houston -- would have seen that Hewitt was having toe problems since then. there is a shot of him having his toes individually wrapped to protect them and he made a comment that he had lost the same toenail a couple of times. (there was also a shot of Henman's feet but Hewitt's feet win that contest IMO :o ) so the Potato making it to the finals of Indian Wells is truly amazing. and i truly understand why he can't play Miami.
You sure it was Hewitt with the same toenail falling off multiple times and not Henman? Why am I thinking it was Tim sho said that when they zommed in on his nasty big toes. I can be wrong though, the "special" bored me and wasn't paying full attention.:p

tennischick
03-23-2005, 04:25 AM
You sure it was Hewitt with the same toenail falling off multiple times and not Henman? Why am I thinking it was Tim sho said that when they zommed in on his nasty big toes. I can be wrong though, the "special" bored me and wasn't paying full attention.:p
it was both. Henman was the one with the mangy looking feet. i was too transfixed by them to be bored.

tangerine_dream
03-23-2005, 04:29 PM
Seeing as how the NASDAQ-100 Open in Miami won the ATP Masters Series Tournament of the Year for the third consecutive year; is the fifth largest tournament and offers the most prize money of all the TMS events; and top players themselves love it and make sure they attend it, then it doesn't matter what anybody in here thinks if it's truly a "fifth slam" or not. Clearly, many of the actual participants believe it to be an important event and so therefore, it is. :p

tennischick
03-24-2005, 07:08 AM
i'd pos-rep you again but it would go to your head ;) :D

Action Jackson
03-24-2005, 08:29 AM
Just because it won the ATP Masters event doesn't mean it's the 5th Slam, as the term doesn't exist. The importance of the event was never questioned, doesn't make it the 5th Slam though.

Rogiman
03-24-2005, 08:42 AM
You clearly didn't notice hte rain delays yesterday, George.
A tournament with so many rain delays should definitely be recognized as a fifth slam! :angel:

Action Jackson
03-24-2005, 08:46 AM
You clearly didn't notice hte rain delays yesterday, George.
A tournament with so many rain delays should definitely be recognized as a fifth slam! :angel:

Yes of course it has to be I mean Wimbledon and the US Open have rain delays, but the difference is they played the semis at the same time at Wimbledon.

But if Federer wins Miami, it's a much bigger achievement than winning Wimbledon. :)

JeNn
03-24-2005, 08:51 AM
A fifth slam? I could have sworn there were only 4? :scratch:

tangerine_dream
03-24-2005, 02:43 PM
i'd pos-rep you again but it would go to your head ;) :D

Har!

btw, I love how the innoculous term "fifth slam" is getting some people's panties all in a twist. I think I'll start using it more often. :devil:

tennischick
03-24-2005, 02:50 PM
Har!

btw, I love how the innoculous term "fifth slam" is getting some people's panties all in a twist. I think I'll start using it more often. :devil:
methinks thou hast a point. i think i'll join you in this ;) :D

Billy Moonshine
03-24-2005, 07:05 PM
My understanding is that Miami is a masters series tounament,that this is the title the ATP give it, and that the WTA tour call it a Tier 1.
If it was the fifth grand slam, wouldn´t it be called a grand slam?
Why do we have to invent a fifth grand slam?
Isn´t four enough?

WyveN
03-30-2005, 02:49 AM
Obviously Miami isnt anywhere near a slam and I personally dont think its anymore special then any other TMS event but I guess the following opinion is relevant to this thread.

Q. It's still very possible that you might win back‑to‑back Masters Series tournaments, having won in Indian Wells the week before last. Is this a really special goal for you?

ROGER FEDERER: Well, I've never done it, you know. I think if you want to do it somewhere, this is the best place to do it, you know, because you've got a couple of days between the two tournaments. This one is considered the biggest one of the nine, you know; points and prize money are the same, but it's just about prestige. It would be a nice thing to do because if you cannot win a Grand Slam, you know, at the Australian Open, that would be great to show, hey, you're still the best, even though I feel like I am because of my results and because I've lost so few matches, you know, the last couple of months.

tennischick
03-30-2005, 03:00 AM
Federer agrees with me :eek: :inlove: :hearts:

thanks WyveN :kiss:

NATAS81
03-30-2005, 03:05 AM
Roger is right!! This is the best place to do it!!! But Dent and Dr. Dre of Thuganomics will have something to say about that!!!

WyveN
03-30-2005, 05:52 AM
Federer agrees with me :eek: :inlove: :hearts:


Maybe he just said it because he saw you werent getting much support on MTF? ;)

tennischick
03-30-2005, 05:53 AM
Maybe he just said it because he saw you werent getting much support on MTF? ;)
i knew there was an explanation...;) :lol:

Action Jackson
03-30-2005, 05:53 AM
Got to love Roger he is a PR dream.

Chloe le Bopper
03-30-2005, 05:54 AM
Roger is WRONG. Sorry.

:angel:

tennischick
03-30-2005, 06:17 AM
Got to love Roger he is a PR dream.
must acknowledge the truth of this before i go to bed. ;)

but you don't get to #1 by being a fecking eejit. even if you are the Android. :)

Action Jackson
03-30-2005, 06:18 AM
TC, I was being serious for once.

tennischick
03-30-2005, 06:21 AM
TC, I was being serious for once.
and where did u did u get the impression that i wasn't? :shrug:

i said that i was acknowledging the truth of Roger being a PR dream before i went to bed.

you don't get to #1 by being a fecking eejit. i meant that.

Action Jackson
03-30-2005, 06:26 AM
and where did u did u get the impression that i wasn't? :shrug:

i said that i was acknowledging the truth of Roger being a PR dream before i went to bed.

you don't get to #1 by being a fecking eejit. i meant that.

Actually this time I didn't want to be misinterpreted. :)

Well I am not sure how many intellectual giants have made # 1, but that's not the most important thing.

PR, when Fed is in Australia, Hewitt is the man. In the US it's Roddick and in England, it's got to be Henman. Whether he means it or not isn't important, but he delivers it like one of his trademark forehands.

WyveN
03-30-2005, 06:57 AM
Got to love Roger he is a PR dream.


When Pete said the same thing about Miami didnt you imply he was a flipping idiot? ;)

Action Jackson
03-30-2005, 06:59 AM
When Pete said the same thing about Miami didnt you imply he was a flipping idiot? ;)

All I ever called Pete was Captain Charisma. :)

tennischick
03-30-2005, 02:07 PM
PR, when Fed is in Australia, Hewitt is the man. In the US it's Roddick and in England, it's got to be Henman. Whether he means it or not isn't important, but he delivers it like one of his trademark forehands.
once again -- i agree. Rog is a PR dream. but you could keep putting out more evidence if it makes you happy.

the cat
03-30-2005, 02:15 PM
The Nasdaq-100 Open can never realistically be considered the fifth grand slam for 3 reasons. One, the tournament has had too many title names over the years. :confused: Second the ATP Tour and WTA Tour Championships will always be considered the fifth grand slam in terms of importance and prestige. That cannot be denied. And third, there is no mixed doubles in the Nasdaq-100 Open like there are in the grand slams.

Do you think Andy Roddick would have rather won a Nasdaq-100 Open title or the ATP Tour Championships? Enough said. Anyone would rather win their tour's YEC instead of the Nasdaq-100 Open. Enough said.

Action Jackson
03-30-2005, 02:17 PM
No cat, you have it wrong. Federer is so driven to win the 5th Slam and when Rios won the 5th Slam that made up for his pathetic showing in the Aus Open final.

tennischick
03-30-2005, 02:27 PM
Do you think Andy Roddick would have rather won a Nasdaq-100 Open title or the ATP Tour Championships? Enough said. Anyone would rather win their tour's YEC instead of the Nasdaq-100 Open. Enpigh said.
right now the Duck would settle for St. Polten. :p

the cat
03-30-2005, 04:41 PM
St. Polten wasn't part of my question.

There is no way Miami is the fifth grand slam. Do you concur TC?

George, I'm sure Rios treasures his Nasdaq-100 Open...er Lipton title. ;)

OMG at the way I spelled enough. :eek: :o I will go back correct that now.

Action Jackson
03-30-2005, 05:01 PM
cat, TC is a true believer in the propaganda that Miami is the 5th Slam.

Yes, Rios really treasures that Lipton title more than any other.

the cat
03-30-2005, 11:08 PM
George, TC is a very smart cookie and I find it hard to believe she values Miami as the fifth grand slam instead of the ATP Tour and WTA Tour Championships.

Roger-No.1
03-30-2005, 11:10 PM
It's Miami.

tennischick
03-30-2005, 11:53 PM
cat, TC is a true believer in the propaganda that Miami is the 5th Slam.
i could tell you to go fuck yourself.

or i could tell you in a nicer way that i have a mind of my own and don't need propaganda to tell me what to think.

i'll let you know which one i decide to do. ;)

NATAS81
03-30-2005, 11:54 PM
It's the nightmare slam as far as the top seeds are concerned. Maybe it's a combination of the swirling winds, slow surface, and bad hot dogs.

Roger-No.1
03-31-2005, 12:00 AM
both men and women play together, two week event, 96 draw, every top 20 player in the draw, over $500.000 for the winner, a 14.000 seat stadium. which other TMS event can come up with those numbers?
true. that's why people call it the 5th slam to promote it.

the cat
03-31-2005, 12:06 AM
But no cigar. ;)

Good one NATAS81. ;)

Roger-No.1
03-31-2005, 12:07 AM
Maybe it's a combination of the swirling winds, slow surface, and bad hot dogs.
that's why players get sick... bad hot dogs, :lol:

World Beater
03-31-2005, 12:52 AM
Read Federer's interview...According to Roger, it is the most prestigious tournament outside of the 4 slams implying of course that its the fifth slam.

WyveN
03-31-2005, 04:07 AM
Read Federer's interview...According to Roger, it is the most prestigious tournament outside of the 4 slams implying of course that its the fifth slam.

I think he implied it was more prestigious then other TMS titles, not the year end championship.

I don't think it was a PR type responce though because the question had nothing to do with what he thought about the Miami tournament.

Action Jackson
03-31-2005, 05:53 AM
i could tell you to go fuck yourself.

or i could tell you in a nicer way that i have a mind of my own and don't need propaganda to tell me what to think.

i'll let you know which one i decide to do. ;)

Please do when you get around to it and these things can't be rushed. :p

Chloe le Bopper
03-31-2005, 06:01 AM
Rafa is into his first slam semifinal :banana:

Action Jackson
03-31-2005, 06:02 AM
He has a big chance to make a Slam final as well Chloe.

Chloe le Bopper
03-31-2005, 06:44 AM
I was expecting to wait at least another year or two before he reached his first slam final, so this is very exciting.

Action Jackson
03-31-2005, 06:45 AM
Don't let the anticipation get the better of you Chloe.

Chloe le Bopper
03-31-2005, 09:08 AM
I haven't dismissed the possibility of this being David Ferrer's first slam final. Don't worry!

Action Jackson
03-31-2005, 09:12 AM
If Ferrer won that would almost be as good as Carretero or Portas winning a TMS.

WyveN
03-31-2005, 09:14 AM
If Ferrer won that would almost be as good as Carretero or Portas winning a TMS.

it would be a bigger surprise/achievement then hernandez becoming wimbledon champion later in the year

Action Jackson
03-31-2005, 09:18 AM
it would be a bigger surprise/achievement then hernandez becoming wimbledon champion later in the year

Yes, that it would. I want Ferrer to win the 5th Slam.

Rogiman
04-02-2005, 11:29 AM
*Bump*

So now it's a matter of Federer's 5th or Nadal's 1st Slam title :angel:

Exciting, isn't it? :)

Action Jackson
04-02-2005, 11:30 AM
That's right Rogiman all will be revealed.

Rogiman
04-02-2005, 11:32 AM
I was wondering, you know, what if Federer wins tomorrow?
I mean - has he got any more goals to achieve in the sport of tennis...?

Well, he could still win the 10th TMS San Jose....

Action Jackson
04-02-2005, 11:35 AM
He has to win RG first Rogiman, then he can focus on the other goals.

Rogiman
04-02-2005, 11:38 AM
RG is in the shade of Miami, sorry...

Action Jackson
04-02-2005, 11:40 AM
Ooooooooooh, I forgot Indianapolis and Washington are the big events as well.

Rogiman
04-02-2005, 11:49 AM
Ooooooooooh, I forgot Indianapolis and Washington are the big events as well.

Well, they're all part of the magnificent US Open Series :lol:

Saumon
04-02-2005, 11:51 AM
Miami a 5th slam is just :bs: :drink:

Action Jackson
04-02-2005, 11:52 AM
Well, they're all part of the magnificent US Open Series :lol:

The US Open Series which is so much more important than the Slams, how could I forget that.

Rogiman
04-02-2005, 11:53 AM
Miami a 5th slam is just :bs: :drink:

You don't say.... :eek:

RonE
04-02-2005, 12:22 PM
I was wondering, you know, what if Federer wins tomorrow?
I mean - has he got any more goals to achieve in the sport of tennis...?


It will be a moment of such great glory and a huge victory- bigger than his other 4 slam wins. If you thought he was emotional after his first Wimbledon win, it will be nothing compared to his reaction on Sunday if he wins. After converting on match point he will do a Becker, run out of the stadium and dive into the Bay of Biscayne.

tennischick
04-02-2005, 04:18 PM
It will be a moment of such great glory and a huge victory- bigger than his other 4 slam wins. If you thought he was emotional after his first Wimbledon win, it will be nothing compared to his reaction on Sunday if he wins. After converting on match point he will do a Becker, run out of the stadium and dive into the Bay of Biscayne.
no no no, you have it all wrong. repeat after me: "Miami is not the GREATEST Slam, it's the 5th Slam". which means that the other 4 rank higher in importance and prestige. but once you've accomplished the other 4, plus the year end tourney, then Miami is next in importance. get it now? ;) ;)

tennischick
04-02-2005, 04:20 PM
I was wondering, you know, what if Federer wins tomorrow?
I mean - has he got any more goals to achieve in the sport of tennis...?

Well, he could still win the 10th TMS San Jose....
yes, he still has to win RG. sheesh...then he can take on the lesser but not insignificant project of winning all of the TMS.

gravity
04-02-2005, 04:20 PM
No Miami is ranked sixth after the ATP Buenos Aires.

Rogiman
04-02-2005, 05:07 PM
yes, he still has to win RG. sheesh...then he can take on the lesser but not insignificant project of winning all of the TMS.

You reckon, Chicken...? :tape:

adeegee
04-02-2005, 05:10 PM
You reckon, Chicken...? :tape:

uh-oh, here comes another rogiman-tennischick 10 page discussion about the most irrelevant things ;)

Rogiman
04-02-2005, 05:14 PM
uh-oh, here comes another rogiman-tennischick 10 page discussion about the most irrelevant things ;)

We'll try to make it to our room this time to spare others' embarrassment, hopefully this time we won't run out of patience midway through the hallway :p

tennischick
04-03-2005, 01:10 AM
You reckon, Chicken...? :tape:
please, don't give the idiot any attention. :(

Action Jackson
04-03-2005, 07:49 AM
You don't say.... :eek:

Whichever way Nadal will either win his 1st Slam or Federer his 5th Slam and Miami will have a new Slam champion.

Fedex
04-03-2005, 07:53 AM
Whichever way Nadal will either win his 1st Slam or Federer his 5th Slam and Miami will have a new Slam champion.
:haha: :rolls:

Rogiman
04-03-2005, 10:57 PM
*Bump*

Seems like this was the best Slam final in a long time :p

Seriously though, when for the last time was a TMS final taken to the 5th set?

Was it Ferrero Vs. Portas in 2001 Hamburg?

RonE
04-03-2005, 11:03 PM
Yes Rogi, it was indeed 2001 Hamburg.

All jokes aside, I know how we have been taking the piss out of Miami- it may not be a a slam but that final was played with the kind of heart, tenacity and courage one would expect to find in a slam final.

Rogiman
04-03-2005, 11:09 PM
Yes Rogi, it was indeed 2001 Hamburg.

All jokes aside, I know how we have been taking the piss out of Miami- it may not be a a slam but that final was played with the kind of heart, tenacity and courage one would expect to find in a slam final.

I'm sure both will remember it for a long time, that's for sure.

tennischick
04-03-2005, 11:17 PM
congrats Roger. now win RG and close the circle :worship:

Rogiman
04-03-2005, 11:19 PM
congrats Roger. now win RG and close the circle :worship:

He's won fricking Miami, who cares about RG? :p

tennischick
04-03-2005, 11:22 PM
He's won fricking Miami, who cares about RG? :p
i care. Miami is the 5th Slam. he still needs to win the second. :p

Tennis Fool
04-04-2005, 06:39 AM
This was from Wertheim's article last week...

People are always talking about the Nasdaq Open being the "fifth Grand Slam." What if it had the same features as a Major with a mixed doubles draw and no first-round byes? Would it officially become a Slam? Will there ever be a fifth Slam?
-- Steve K., St. Louis

I like that idea. Mixed doubles is like filler programming for a promoter. Or, as Mary Carillo calls it: "The funny cars of tennis." But the fans like it, the players get to earn some extra dough and it highlights tennis' great "mixed-gender" virtue. And you're right: In its frivolous way, it would imbue an event like the Nasdaq with the feel of a Major.

Same with expanding the draw to 128. I'm sure the Slams, and the ITF would fight it, but what, really, are the material (and financial) differences between a 128 draw and a 96 draw?



Also, he calls IW the "6th Slam".

Chloe le Bopper
04-04-2005, 07:08 AM
Yes Rogi, it was indeed 2001 Hamburg.

All jokes aside, I know how we have been taking the piss out of Miami- it may not be a a slam but that final was played with the kind of heart, tenacity and courage one would expect to find in a slam final.
Incidentally, the Hamburg final was lost by a player who was up a two sets and a break too. Oh well. Ferrero bounced back, so will Nadal. And somehow I think Nadal doing it against Federer isn't as bad as Ferrero doing it against Portas who bounced back right where he started when all those points fell off.

tennischick
04-04-2005, 01:04 PM
...Same with expanding the draw to 128. I'm sure the Slams, and the ITF would fight it, but what, really, are the material (and financial) differences between a 128 draw and a 96 draw?

Also, he calls IW the "6th Slam".
i'm gonna have to stop slamming this guy ;)

BlackSilver
04-04-2005, 01:13 PM
Also, he calls IW the "6th Slam".

:sad:

Jimnik
07-29-2012, 10:40 PM
:smash:

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A FIFTH SLAM. :shout:

Honestly
07-29-2012, 10:42 PM
Miami has become a disappointment. Dunno why it's so highly rated. It's slow as quicksand ffs.

uxyzapenje
07-29-2012, 11:20 PM
Yes, Miami is 5th slam, just so I can say Novak holds 3 Slams ATM :lol:

TigerTim
07-29-2012, 11:51 PM
Mehami is a terrible event. Its Blue clay does one thing - destroy knees.

The whole tennis calendar is fatally fawed, Feb-Early April is pointless,

Ranking of MS
1. Rome/Canada/Indian Wells
2. Cincinatti/Madrid
3. Paris
4. Miami/Shanghai
5. Monte Carlo 500

TBkeeper
07-30-2012, 05:00 AM
Congratulations Davydenko for spanking Nadull in a GS final :spit: :D

dencod16
07-30-2012, 07:06 AM
Mehami is a terrible event. Its Blue clay does one thing - destroy knees.

The whole tennis calendar is fatally fawed, Feb-Early April is pointless,

Ranking of MS
1. Rome/Canada/Indian Wells
2. Cincinatti/Madrid
3. Paris
4. Miami/Shanghai
5. Monte Carlo 500

LOL LOL LOL. What Blue clay, That Madrid. LOL LOL LOL. Miami is played on hard courts. again LOL LOL LOL.

However, i think based on both women's and men's event, i think it is the indeed the fifth slam.

Action Jackson
07-30-2012, 07:08 AM
LOL LOL LOL. What Blue clay, That Madrid. LOL LOL LOL. Miami is played on hard courts. again LOL LOL LOL.

However, i think based on both women's and men's event, i think it is the indeed the fifth slam.

Are you joking? The concept doesn't exist.

Revan
07-30-2012, 07:34 AM
Can't tell if serious or just..........


:facepalm:

TigerTim
07-30-2012, 11:10 AM
LOL LOL LOL. What Blue clay, That Madrid. LOL LOL LOL. Miami is played on hard courts. again LOL LOL LOL.

However, i think based on both women's and men's event, i think it is the indeed the fifth slam.

Mugami's shitty hard court is as fast as clay, hence it's nickname of blue clay.

Orange Wombat
07-30-2012, 11:55 AM
No yuck :o Miami courts are slow and muggy and the balls are heavy and only two sets

GSMnadal
03-22-2013, 10:00 PM
Yes.

Johnny Groove
03-22-2013, 10:47 PM
If anything is a 5th slam, it is the Year End Masters.

But there are only 4 slams.

Timot
03-22-2013, 11:27 PM
There have been 4 GS for the last 100 years so there's no reason in making any changes. It would spoil the ancient aura that surrounds Grands Slams.

Mountaindewslave
03-22-2013, 11:41 PM
If anything is a 5th slam, it is the Year End Masters.

But there are only 4 slams.

the year end masters has only 8 players who play and way fewer rounds it's not even close to the 5th slam even when speaking figuratively

if we're going to give that title to another tournament it's got to be Indian Wells or Miami

Mountaindewslave
03-22-2013, 11:42 PM
There have been 4 GS for the last 100 years so there's no reason in making any changes. It would spoil the ancient aura that surrounds Grands Slams.

there are but it does get a bit skewed when we consider that Australia only began to become widely played and respected a few decades back

I agree it should stay 4 and 4 works

Julián Santiago
03-22-2013, 11:57 PM
Everybody knows that Paris indoors is the 5th Slam

Saberq
03-23-2013, 12:02 AM
the year end masters has only 8 players who play and way fewer rounds it's not even close to the 5th slam even when speaking figuratively

if we're going to give that title to another tournament it's got to be Indian Wells or Miami

LOL

WinterIsComing
03-23-2013, 12:46 AM
That "5th slam" thing comes from a different time when there was no such thing as "mandatory events". Back then players went to whichever Super 9 they wanted and they tended to consider Key Biscayne as the most important. But now it is no more important than any other M1000, and its position right after IW clearly devaluates it since players regularly withdraw from Miami after performing well in California. Same goes for Cincinatti and Paris when it was scheduled right after Stuttgart/Madrid. The Hamburg case is a bit special since it seems to me that it has always been less valued than Rome. And now they have switched Rome and Madrid, probably to avoid that "second week syndrome".

rocketassist
03-23-2013, 01:01 AM
Newport is the 5th slam because it's where the Tennis Hall of Fame is located.

GSMnadal
03-23-2013, 01:03 AM
Don't see anyone crying about losing at the WTF or Miami. What's this tournament where they do that's held once every four years?

Davis Cup is another.

Johnny Groove
03-23-2013, 01:03 AM
Miami used to be the 5th slam when they played best of 5 from R1, 1987, 1988, 1989.

85 and 86 it was B05 from QF on.

BroTree456
03-23-2013, 09:07 AM
fedtards will say WTF s the 5th slam
dulltards will say olympics s the 5th slam

pierricbross
03-23-2013, 10:55 AM
While the Olympics isn't important with-regards to records due to the huge amount of events that tennis has (it's worth as much as H2H imo, great to have but not necessary unless you are /that/ close to start nit-picking), it is still very important to the individuals who win a medal, definitely not a 5th slam.

WTF not a fifth slam either; it's best of 3, you play only 5 matches, there is only one court, the pressure is on you and your team for only one week instead of two, round robin format so starting slow isn't as detrimental.

Davis Cup would be closest but due to the out-dated format and pressure from the ATP it is barely considered relevant at the moment.

tl;dr any serious talk of a fifth slam is laughable

TheShowMustGoOn
03-23-2013, 12:00 PM
Why does there have to be a fifth? There is only four.

TennisPhan1
03-23-2013, 02:18 PM
can murray overtake Fed here if he wins Miami?

Topspindoctor
03-23-2013, 02:24 PM
fedtards will say WTF s the 5th slam
dulltards will say olympics s the 5th slam

Olympics > Mugami only Nosetards claim otherwise


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App (http://www.verticalsports.com/mobile)

Gris
03-23-2013, 03:52 PM
Four slams are enough,why should there be a fifth?

Boris Franz Ecker
03-23-2013, 05:46 PM
It's meaningsless. A waste of time.

August
03-23-2013, 08:01 PM
Miami the 5th slam? With Federer and Nadal skipping plus del GOATro tanking. :spit:

Brick Top
03-23-2013, 08:17 PM
I wont mind calling it a fifth slam if No1e wins it once more.