Why Muster's playing style was so bad... [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Why Muster's playing style was so bad...

Sjengster
03-08-2005, 12:19 PM
.....




because it deprived tennis journalists of a potentially superb pun. Had he been a serve-volleyer up against grinding baseliners, every defeat could have been met with the headline "Player X Passes Muster", but instead he was the one doing the passing.

TheBoiledEgg
03-08-2005, 12:22 PM
Muster was mustering up all his energy, the more he drained his opponents the stronger he got :lol:

Sjengster
03-08-2005, 12:56 PM
Yes, I suppose the punning possibilities are endless for the Moo-Man... but I like the idea of, say, Stich declaring after he upset Muster at RG in 1996, "My serve was strong, and my groundstrokes held up - they certainly passed Muster." But to do that, you would have to reverse their styles of play...

tennis elbow
03-08-2005, 07:19 PM
I remember that Muster was subject to one of the most biased and relentless attacks from the American Media, who was constantly belittleing his accomplishments after he reached number 1 in the rankings over both Sampras and Agassi... even the usually mild Sampras had some snipping remarks regarding Muster's titles... he was deemed too claycouter, too serious, too one-dimensional, little flashy and too European for the American Press tastes...

vogus
03-09-2005, 04:32 AM
.....




because it deprived tennis journalists of a potentially superb pun. Had he been a serve-volleyer up against grinding baseliners, every defeat could have been met with the headline "Player X Passes Muster", but instead he was the one doing the passing.


along the same lines - many years ago i played a guy in a local area tournament by the name of Rod Pass.

He was a serve and volleyer.

Leena
03-09-2005, 04:33 AM
K.

No picking on Tommy.

I love him.

And this isn't bullshit love like I have for Andrew.

vogus
03-09-2005, 04:35 AM
I remember that Muster was subject to one of the most biased and relentless attacks from the American Media, who was constantly belittleing his accomplishments after he reached number 1 in the rankings over both Sampras and Agassi... even the usually mild Sampras had some snipping remarks regarding Muster's titles... he was deemed too claycouter, too serious, too one-dimensional, little flashy and too European for the American Press tastes...


Sampras hated Muster and was incredibly jealous of him for his stature in Europe.

Action Jackson
03-09-2005, 04:38 AM
Muster had a sense of humour, which is something Sampras never had in spite of all his Slams.

Leena
03-09-2005, 04:39 AM
Muster was hilarious.

I mean, maybe his #1 ranking was a bit undeserved, but he didn't deserve to be ragged on by practically all Americans. :sad:

Action Jackson
03-09-2005, 04:42 AM
They were jealous that this guy did it, but of course the fact the destroyed Sampras indoors at Essen in 95 was what actually helped him get those huge points as well as winning all the clay stuff.

Fitting that Miami was his last tournament victory.

Leena
03-09-2005, 04:47 AM
The thing I admired most about him is how he always tried to improve on the faster surfaces, at least in his later years.

He'd play a completely different game for hardcourts, and while being far from the best at it, he would grind his way to wins. While playing on that crap had to be torture for his legs.

vogus
03-09-2005, 04:47 AM
it's a shame that Sampras and Agassi didn't even have one-tenth of the personal rivalry with each other, that each of them had with Muster. It would have made the Sampras-Agassi matches a lot more interesting.

Action Jackson
03-09-2005, 04:55 AM
The thing I admired most about him is how he always tried to improve on the faster surfaces, at least in his later years.

He'd play a completely different game for hardcourts, and while being far from the best at it, he would grind his way to wins. While playing on that crap had to be torture for his legs.

It was the hip that gave away, but he could only play on it for short period of times.

He had to change his game everywhere and not just for hardcourts and if he didn't change his game when he did, he would never have had the run in 1995.

If you ever want a video to get these are the ones:

Muster towelling Sampras indoors Essen 95
Muster bitchslapping Agassi in Davis Cup 90 ( I was there live for that one, too bad porker Skoff couldn't finish the job)

vogus
03-09-2005, 04:56 AM
The thing I admired most about him is how he always tried to improve on the faster surfaces, at least in his later years.

He'd play a completely different game for hardcourts, and while being far from the best at it, he would grind his way to wins. While playing on that crap had to be torture for his legs.


Muster under-performed at the USO, so that was a big reason why he didn't get that much respect here. He never reached the USO semi's, which is what puts a tennis player on the national network television map.

Action Jackson
03-09-2005, 04:58 AM
Muster under-performed at the USO, so that was a big reason why he didn't get that much respect here. He never reached the USO semi's, which is what puts a tennis player on the national network television map.

Big in the USA or respected internationally? I know which one I'd take and Muster would as well. A prick on the court, but respected everywhere in the tennis world.

jole
03-09-2005, 04:59 AM
Muster and his career is pretty much inspiring.

http://asapsports.com/tennis/1997lipton/033097TM.html is a fantastic interview I always read every once and a while.

I've always thought people like Muster, Medvedev, and Hrbaty gave fantastic interviews.

Action Jackson
03-09-2005, 05:01 AM
Muster and his career is pretty much inspiring.

http://asapsports.com/tennis/1997lipton/033097TM.html is a fantastic interview I always read every once and a while.

I've always thought people like Muster, Medvedev, and Hrbaty gave fantastic interviews.

I put a whole bunch of them in the oldies thread with Muster. Some people just don't appreciate the way he was.

vogus
03-09-2005, 05:01 AM
Big in the USA or respected internationally? I know which one I'd take and Muster would as well.


why does it have to be choice between the two? Becker and Borg were both huge in the USA as well as internationally.

Action Jackson
03-09-2005, 05:04 AM
why does it have to be choice between the two? Becker and Borg were both huge in the USA as well as internationally.

People make comments about not certain players not getting recognition or appreciation in the US, because they are not American. So very simply is what is more important? It's very obvious which is, if taken from non-parochial perspective.

Neely
03-09-2005, 05:37 AM
Yes, I suppose the punning possibilities are endless for the Moo-Man... but I like the idea of, say, Stich declaring after he upset Muster at RG in 1996, "My serve was strong, and my groundstrokes held up - they certainly passed Muster." But to do that, you would have to reverse their styles of play...

Wow, this quote is really new for me and despite I followed Stich's career closely and he was my favourite player before Kiefer, I never heard him saying that.

"they certainly passed Muster" sounds a bit strange, I agree, but Stich on a good day really had that good groundstrokes that they literally passed Muster, not at the net mostly, but at the baseline, because they were too good. Stich's backhand longline to Muster's double-handed lefty backhand was an important key when Muster tried to apply his famous "crosscourt angle game"

Also "passed Muster" could be a bad translation from German to English or a bad saying from Stich. "pass" translated from German could as much mean simply overcoming Muster in the draw, winning against him.

So there are quite a few ways to see truth in this quote, even though it doesn't sound too much logical at first.

Action Jackson
03-09-2005, 05:50 AM
Neely, Sjengster was having a joke with that quote. How some English commentators love bad puns and if Muster was a serve/volleyer then they would have plenty of them.

ftd999
03-09-2005, 06:05 AM
People make comments about not certain players not getting recognition or appreciation in the US, because they are not American. So very simply is what is more important? It's very obvious which is, if taken from non-parochial perspective.

Personally, I've never met anyone who didn't have a tremendous respect for Muster as a player, but I think most of those peope follow the game a little closer than your general tennis public. I think anyone who watched him knows he was one of the fiercest warriors out there. To be honest, I can't think of anyone in today's game who could match him for both game and intensity. Hewitt comes to mind in terms of competitiveness (possibly) but not game :)

Tennis in the early to mid nineties was great, I miss it :sad:

Action Jackson
03-09-2005, 06:09 AM
Personally, I've never met anyone who didn't have a tremendous respect for Muster as a player, but I think most of those peope follow the game a little closer than your general tennis public. I think anyone who watched him knows he was one of the fiercest warriors out there. To be honest, I can't think of anyone in today's game who could match him for both game and intensity. Hewitt comes to mind in terms of competitiveness (possibly) but not game :)

Tennis in the early to mid nineties was great, I miss it :sad:

Plenty of people didn't respect Muster as a player and that included alleged "respected" commentators. They respected his fighting ability to come back from that accident, but that is different from respecting his ability as a player.

Tennis in the 90s wasn't that good. It's a different era and that is all.

Neely
03-09-2005, 06:23 AM
Neely, Sjengster was having a joke with that quote. How some English commentators love bad puns and if Muster was a serve/volleyer then they would have plenty of them.
Ok, now I understand the "joke". Sorry for not getting it at all in the first moment :o English puns have been always too high for me and I fall the trap ;)

ftd999
03-09-2005, 07:04 AM
Plenty of people didn't respect Muster as a player and that included alleged "respected" commentators. They respected his fighting ability to come back from that accident, but that is different from respecting his ability as a player

Then, I think some people might have let their opinions regarding Muster's personality cloud their judgment.


Tennis in the 90s wasn't that good. It's a different era and that is all.


I disagree. The substance of top player right now seems a bit weak compared to that period (88-98. Nineties, basically). Lendl. Egberg. Becker. Agassi. Muster. Courier. Chang. Wilander. Sampras. McEnroe (although past prime). Brugera. Rafter. Stich. Goran. Rios. Others. Yes, it's basically a combo of two eras, but I'm comparing that period with the current era. Most of these guys were multiple slam winners, players of real substance that could be counted on to fight bitterly until the end. And there were many great battles between champions.

I look at today and .. mild blah. We have Federer, Safin (under achiever until recently), and Hewitt. Roddick is a name also I guess, as he seems to consistently bomb his way into the later rounds. Then? Maybe Coria on clay, who's never really won anything. Moya, I guess, who shows up every so often, or Nalbandian who does the same. Then who? I'm not really trying to disrespect today's game, because I love watching, but I just think we had some really great champions (and battles) in the nineties :)

Action Jackson
03-09-2005, 07:09 AM
Ok, now I understand the "joke". Sorry for not getting it at all in the first moment :o English puns have been always too high for me and I fall the trap ;)

It took me years to get it as well.

Action Jackson
03-09-2005, 07:13 AM
Then, I think some people might have let their opinions regarding Muster's personality cloud their judgment.

Happens all the time.

I like all the eras for different reasons and have shown that many times already, but I am not going to go on and romanticise about how great tennis was in the 90s, when I don't see the need to.

Rusedski and Bj÷rkman were in the top 10 of singles in the 90s, there was definitely a high point of tennis then.

89-93 there was a void in tennis, you mightn't want to believe it and Courier took advantage of it in a big way.

ftd999
03-09-2005, 07:38 AM
89-93 there was a void in tennis, you mightn't want to believe it and Courier took advantage of it in a big way.

A void? Lendl, Becker, and Edberg. I haven't check any stats (and I can tell by your posts that you know your stats, so I probably shouldn't argue), but weren't they winning slams during this time? Also, Agassi on the way up. Chang. Sampras coming up.

By the way, Courier seems like he's now disrespected because he faded away mentally after he reached the top (similiar to Wilander). Let's not forget that this guy was a pure warrior on court. He was one mean-ass nasty individual with very solid groundies and incredible fitness. Maybe I'm wrong, but when I think of most of today players, I don't feel the same sense of absolute fight and mental toughness that Courier displayed in his prime. Maybe Hewitt and that's about it.

Action Jackson
03-09-2005, 07:42 AM
A void? Lendl, Becker, and Edberg. I haven't check any stats (and I can tell by your posts that you know your stats, so I probably shouldn't argue), but weren't they winning slams during this time? Also, Agassi on the way up. Chang. Sampras coming up.

After 89 Lendl wasn't the same and was on the wane. Becker and Edberg yes that's 2 players, the way you make it out, it was like a golden generation and that wasn't the case, as many players weren't matured and the ones that did, the others were past their best.

By the way, Courier seems like he's now disrespected because he faded away mentally after he reached the top (similiar to Wilander). Let's not forget that this guy was a pure warrior on court. He was one mean-ass nasty individual with very solid groundies and incredible fitness. Maybe I'm wrong, but when I think of most of today players, I don't feel the same sense of absolute fight and mental toughness that Courier displayed in his prime. Maybe Hewitt and that's about it.

Wilander was winning Slams for 7 years, and shouldn't be compared him with Courier. They are not even the same league.

Courier was the man for 2 years. Bruguera wore him down and then Courier gor worked out and wasn't the same.

Mrs. B
03-09-2005, 07:44 AM
i remember watching a footage of Muster, he was sitting and his leg on a cast resting on the small bench on a clay court...he was still hitting balls. his determination to get back into the game after his accident was just incredible!

chapeau.

ftd999
03-09-2005, 08:01 AM
After 89 Lendl wasn't the same and was on the wane. Becker and Edberg yes that's 2 players, the way you make it out, it was like a golden generation and that wasn't the case, as many players weren't matured and the ones that did, the others were past their best.

Wilander was winning Slams for 7 years, and shouldn't be compared him with Courier. They are not even the same league.

Courier was the man for 2 years. Bruguera wore him down and then Courier gor worked out and wasn't the same.

Like I said, I still love watching today's tennis, but who can you consistently count on to show up and produce great tennis in the slams? Yes, there are guys who will show up for a tournament and then disappear for a year, but they're not really champions. I named a slew of players during that period who almost always came in at high levels and fought out great battles in the slams. Most of them won numerous slams or made many finals and semis. At least that's the way I remember it when I watched them.

Action Jackson
03-09-2005, 08:06 AM
Like I said, I still love watching today's tennis, but who can you consistently count on to show up and produce great tennis in the slams? Yes, there are guys who will show up for a tournament and then disappear for a year, but they're not really champions. I named a slew of players during that period who almost always came in at high levels and fought out great battles in the slams. Most of them won numerous slams or made many finals and semis. At least that's the way I remember it when I watched them.

Ever thought the levelling out the playing standards could have had an effect on that? Or are you just on the nostalgic kick and prepared to overlook everything else and just see it through rose glasses?

Well, not all the best Slam matches involve the top players, that is a myth, then the all talk of rivalries. If it happens, it happens.

ftd999
03-09-2005, 04:01 PM
Ever thought the levelling out the playing standards could have had an effect on that? Or are you just on the nostalgic kick and prepared to overlook everything else and just see it through rose glasses?


Not a nostalgic kick. Although tennis in the nineties was very good, the current crop definitely passes muster as well.


[insert Groan smiley]

:p

tennischick
03-09-2005, 04:16 PM
I remember that Muster was subject to one of the most biased and relentless attacks from the American Media, who was constantly belittleing his accomplishments after he reached number 1 in the rankings over both Sampras and Agassi... even the usually mild Sampras had some snipping remarks regarding Muster's titles... he was deemed too claycouter, too serious, too one-dimensional, little flashy and too European for the American Press tastes...
anyone who surpassed the Android and became #1 have been victims of the American media -- Kafelnikov, Rios, Moya to name just 3 in recent memory.

in contrast Federer has been more overlooked than attacked. and that's bec even the American press are finally beginning to admit that the Duck may not have what it takes to be #1, so there is no contest there.

ftd999
03-09-2005, 04:24 PM
anyone who surpassed the Android and became #1 have been victims of the American media -- Kafelnikov, Rios, Moya to name just 3 in recent memory.

in contrast Federer has been more overlooked than attacked. and that's bec even the American press are finally beginning to admit that the Duck may not have what it takes to be #1, so there is no contest there.

What problems did the media have with Moya? I don't really remember that one :)

vogus
03-09-2005, 09:06 PM
Stich's backhand longline to Muster's double-handed lefty backhand
.


Muster's double-handed backhand??

tennis4you
03-09-2005, 10:35 PM
Muster did very well and trained like a friggin mad man. Anyone remember the article of him in tennis magazine where he was sitting on a bench hitting tennis balls while his leg healed. His legs were smashed between two cars when he was getting something out of his trunk or something like that...

Action Jackson
03-09-2005, 10:46 PM
Muster fans are very aware of his accident. Yes, 1989 he was meant to play Lendl in the final. A drunk driver on the wrong side of the road hit him as he was getting something out of the boot, and he got trapped in between both cars.

Leena
03-09-2005, 10:52 PM
Muster under-performed at the USO, so that was a big reason why he didn't get that much respect here. He never reached the USO semi's, which is what puts a tennis player on the national network television map.
Yes, he never reached the late rounds of USO... which was sad.

Muster was definitely not one of the most technically gifted players of his era.

But, he made the absolute best with what he had.

I remember 96 USO.

It was a total struggle for him... because he kept trying to play offensively, which just didn't suit him. But he tried. And eventually Andre got him in the Quarters.

Something I wish Andrew would do on clay. Besides just standing 10 feet behind the baseline and hitting crappy backhands.

YoursTruly
03-10-2005, 11:05 PM
Muster is so cool. And along with his natural abilities, his work ethic and determination was so admirable.