To Ferrero and his fans [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

To Ferrero and his fans

Gonzo Hates Me!
11-17-2002, 10:57 AM
Sorry. It sucks when you're doing so well, and suddenly, within a game or two, the match is gone--over. And it seems to happen a lot to Ferrero! No offense. But one of these days, I think he won't get the short stick. So congrats to Ferrero for taking it to a 5th and coming so close and making the final--especially on hard court and at this tournament.

Chloe le Bopper
11-17-2002, 04:22 PM
Yes well, he chokes routinely.

Maybe he'll grow out of it, maybe not.

Mr. Man
11-17-2002, 05:36 PM
Yea, I'am dissapointed that Juan-Carlos was so close at winning. But im glad he was a finalst this year, Kick azz.

Congrats to Lleyton..

Chloe le Bopper
11-17-2002, 05:41 PM
I'm sure I'll have something positive to say in acouple days :)

tennischick
11-17-2002, 06:08 PM
i also didn't like his closing speech. that business about losing 6-4 in the fifth showed his typical sour grapes. that was neither the time nor the place for that comment IMO.

oops! this thread is for his fans! sorry!!!! ;) ;)

Chloe le Bopper
11-17-2002, 06:11 PM
Very classy to rub salt in the wounds, though not surprising.

That's alright, at least he isn't 2-7 against Hewitt. He'll even it up next time they play.

I think they could have a great rivalry.

tennischick
11-17-2002, 06:16 PM
it's OK for you to say that he choked, but i'm rubbing salt in the wound when i say that his comment showed sour grapes? what kind of a double standard is that?

Layla
11-17-2002, 06:20 PM
Since when are choking and showing sour grapes the same act?

You know very well your statement is just a provocation with no basis in reality, so why don't you save it for some other day. What, you couldn't find anything else to riducule, so you had to invent sour grapes?

luvbadboys
11-17-2002, 06:21 PM
:(
Sorry
On the bright side, he played well all week.

Chloe le Bopper
11-17-2002, 06:22 PM
Listen - my choking comments were slightly off base, and weren't fair to he or Hewitt.

I think it's clear I overreacted - comparing yourself to my behavior, isn't exactly a keen idea ;)

tennischick
11-17-2002, 06:30 PM
i actually honestly didn't like his comment. in fact i called a tennis friend ths morning right after the match and one of the things she said to me was "could you believe that Ferrero comment?". i honestly felt that that is the kind of comment with which you console yourself privately or in discussions with your coach. it had no place in a closing speech.

at the same time, i also honestly do not think that Ferrero choked. i do not agree with that. i think he genuinely ran out of steam which is exactly what i had feared he might do.

so to me, yes, your choking comment is a negative accusation, and it is no more negative than my observation about his sour grapes (which he also has a history of as you yourself have commented on in the past!)

i understand that you're upset Rebecca but taking out your frustration on other posters is also in poor taste. your charming comment about Hewitt-Courier and the couple of expletives hardly seem necessary in an honest tennis discussion.

tennischick
11-17-2002, 06:32 PM
sorry the above is addressed to both Layla and Rebecca. hey guys it's not my fault that he lost, get a grip!!!!

Chloe le Bopper
11-17-2002, 06:33 PM
Okay - but the hewitt-courier band comment was a little funny :p

The other stuff was just junk.

Anyhow, I think I've made it clear that I've been taking out other problems through this, which is lame. But it is easier than yelling at people I live with, and at least I didn't break anything.

Regardless- what was his comment? I didn't hear it.

Chloe le Bopper
11-17-2002, 06:34 PM
I don't think that I blamed you for his losing :confused:

I just said your comment was in poor taste, given the nature of the thread.

I've never claimed to be an angel either. I've said about 200 times that I've been acting stupid the past several hours.

tennischick
11-17-2002, 06:38 PM
the nature of the thread was supposed to be celebratory. you were not exactly celebrating when you accused him of choking! and frankly i don't see my accusing him of sour grapes as a worse accusation. i was commenting on a post-play speech. you were commenting on his GAME! i honestly think that your choking accusation is FAR worse!!!

Chloe le Bopper
11-17-2002, 06:42 PM
I'm not sure why you keep going on about this - I've pointed out that my behavior has been rather disgusting.

Seeing as I didnt' see the match, I should not have said that.

The fact he brought it to 5 sets was impressive - a year or two ago he might have folded, who knows.

I merely want to know what he said?

tennischick
11-17-2002, 06:48 PM
you didn't see the match and you have so much to say????? :eek: :eek:

i'm outta here. bye y'all...

Layla
11-17-2002, 06:48 PM
This is what Ferrero said:

First of all I want to congratulate Lleyton, because I think he played a great week. And also you know I'm really happy because I started the week a little bit bad losing to Federer and now I'm here in the final losing 6-4 in the 5th so I'm really happy for that...

Then he thanked the crowd and blabla. Make of it what you want. Seems a pretty normal comment to me, saying he was happy about his week in Shanghai.

Chloe le Bopper
11-17-2002, 06:50 PM
you can't even say what you are basing your comments on, yet you can personally attack me.

Nice.

I can at least say I didn't do the same back.

Dissident
11-17-2002, 06:51 PM
Another twisted comment leads to bs on a player that doesnt deserve it??

This sucks.

Chloe le Bopper
11-17-2002, 06:52 PM
I might also point out, it is hard to watch a match that didnt' come on here untill an hour ago, that I can't watch now because I happen to live with 11 other people who like to watch TV.

I will see it someday, just not today.

And just because I didn't see the match, does not mean I am not entitled to have any opinions whatsoever.

It is not as if I'm saying "his serve let him down".

Layla
11-17-2002, 06:52 PM
Originally posted by tennischick
sorry the above is addressed to both Layla and Rebecca. hey guys it's not my fault that he lost, get a grip!!!!

Get a grip? I'm fine, thanks for asking. ;) No kidding, it's not your fault? Does Juanqui know that? I thought your comment about sour grapes was ridiculous and intended to provoke, but you've explained that you honestly believe it, so I accept that. You seem to think he has a history of sour grapes and I most certainly do not, so fair enough.

Chloe le Bopper
11-17-2002, 06:53 PM
Originally posted by hitman
Another twisted comment leads to bs on a player that doesnt deserve it??

This sucks.

When you don't like somebody, it is easy to find something wrong with them.

the cat
11-17-2002, 08:06 PM
Congrats to Hewitt and Ferrero on a tremendous final! Ferrero just may have taken that step forward that he needs to get to the next level. We'll find out for sure next year.

As for the tension in this thread, it's too bad. I love TC's passion and knowledge about tennis! :) And Becca's too! But I don't think a players post match comments should be held against them unless they were offensive and rude. And that wasn't the case with Ferrero. But to TC's credit, she did point out that Pete Sampras in his brief 2002 U.S. Open victory speech, let it slip out that he deserved to win the U.S. Open! I know he didn't mean to say it. It just slipped out. And some people were upset with that. And I fought TC on that one. But she was right. But I don't think Ferrero said anything to get upset about. He had to be very hurt to have lost a major title in 5 sets.

Leo7
11-17-2002, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by Layla
This is what Ferrero said:

First of all I want to congratulate Lleyton, because I think he played a great week. And also you know I'm really happy because I started the week a little bit bad losing to Federer and now I'm here in the final losing 6-4 in the 5th so I'm really happy for that...

Then he thanked the crowd and blabla. Make of it what you want. Seems a pretty normal comment to me, saying he was happy about his week in Shanghai.

what's so bad about this comment? doesn't sound like bitter grapes to me. if i had to make that speech after choking (yup, he choked) then i would not have been so positive. :rolleyes:

well this is a good step for 2003. Ferrero should carry this momentum to the Australian Open. who knows myabe he'll win it? :)

Lindsayfan
11-17-2002, 08:47 PM
oh no please stop to fight,or this board will become soon like wtaworld! :rolleyes:

Chloe le Bopper
11-17-2002, 09:04 PM
Lindsayfan, I agree.

I feel I've appologized to everyone that I have misbehaved towads.

If people want to continue insulting and judging, that is their business.

Now, I look forward to matches between these two in the future :)

And Ferrero fans - you can console yourself by knowing Ferrero has came much close to Hewitt on Hewitts best surface, than vice verse ;)

And the head to head is onl 2-3. Still just about even :)

Jackie
11-17-2002, 11:28 PM
Congratulations to Ferrero for putting up a good fight

tennischick
11-17-2002, 11:39 PM
forgive my delayed response...

i personally found the "at least i made it to 6-4 in the 5th" comment by Ferrero to be in poor taste. that is my honest opinion. i watched every ball of the match and listened to every word of his post-match interview. i am not twisting his words (to hitman) bec that is simply not my style. i reacted in the moment, and, as i said earlier, i also subsequently talked to a friend (and did so again tonite) who actually expressed this same opinion -- and she adores Juan Carlos just for the record. let me quote her: "he started off sounding like a champion, but after that comment, he sounded like a little boy and a sore loser". end of quote. at the time, within that context, his comment sounded like sour grapes to us both. sorry if you Ferrero fans have a problem with that opinion but it is my own and i stand by it. and i didn't get nasty to anyone in my expression of it so i really don't understand why anyone has to get so upset that i thought it sounded like sour grapes.

finally, as i said earlier, i honestly didn't think that he choked. i felt that Ferrero gave that match his all but Hewitt was simply that much more determined -- as he should be, being the #1 player after all.

over and out.

Dissident
11-18-2002, 01:06 AM
I didnt say you twisted them.
I thought you had read them somewhere.
Reporters usually twist the words, like they did to Lleyton just two days ago.
I think this subject is done as we all seem to agree on disagreeing.
PEACE! :)

TennisHack
11-18-2002, 01:20 AM
Originally posted by tennischick
let me quote her: "he started off sounding like a champion, but after that comment, he sounded like a little boy and a sore loser". end of quote.

Isn't he allowed to be upset? It was a long, tough battle and he was on edge of his nerves the entire time. I think it's forgiveable if he wasn't through the roof for Hewitt and his performace.

tennischick
11-18-2002, 01:42 AM
of course he's allowed to be upset!! who wouldn't be after such a close match!

buthopefully i am also allowed to express an opinion about how he chose to express his upset -- which is all that i did!

thanks for the clarification hitman.

moving right along...

Chloe le Bopper
11-18-2002, 07:34 AM
tennischick - your opinions on Juan Carlos do NOT upset me LMAO. I could care less what you, or anyone else thinks of him.

I hardly expect everyone to love him, that would be down right boring. If I want to be somewhere that everyone agrees with my feelings on him, then I will go to his forum :p

Just for future reference :wavey:

Layla
11-18-2002, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by tennischick

buthopefully i am also allowed to express an opinion about how he chose to express his upset -- which is all that i did!


Of course you are allowed to express your opinion, but you just HAD to put it into this thread, didn't you. You could have started your own thread if his behavior bothers you so much. I hate all this fighting and I know that in I way I started it, but I just want to clarify why I attacked you. It was because you were fully aware you were being provocative by posting this in a thread meant for his fans. This is what you said:

i also didn't like his closing speech. that business about losing 6-4 in the fifth showed his typical sour grapes. that was neither the time nor the place for that comment IMO.

oops! this thread is for his fans! sorry!!!! ;) ;)

I would have ignored it if you hadn't posted that smug applogy. THAT was what got me irate not your opinion and that is why I attacked you not the opinion. Forgive me for not having a sense of humor on the day of one of his toughest defeats.

tennischick
11-18-2002, 12:25 PM
sorry but i felt free to place it there bec his biggest fan on ths board had just accused him of being a choker. it's interesting that you didn't become angry with Rebecca for saying that and you are yet to attack her for what i consider a most unfair and undeserving accusation! no it''s OK for Rebecca to call Ferrero a choker but it's not OK for me to say that a remark in his closing speech expressed sour grapes.

and the reason for the double standard is simple. Rebecca is a fan and i am not. so my comments then become personalised and i am attacked for saying them but there is not a single reaction to Rebecca's negative (and IMO incorrect) statement. things that make me go hmmmm..........

i wasn't aware too that there was a rule telling folks where to post on this board. i was honestly under the impression that folks were free to post wherever they wanted to.

but this is becoming a pain in the ass which is not what i come on tennis boards for. i love tennis too much and men's tennis in particular, to waste time with all this fighting. i also quite simply don't have the time. so forgive the length of this post as it's the last thing i will say on this matter.

my bottom line, very simply, is this. i do not participate in personal attacks on posters -- unless of course i am attacked first. as Rebecca rightly points out in the Peeler thread, she can find countless examples of me slagging Hewitt. that is correct. i make fun of Hewitt -- not of Hewitt fans. i make fun of Sampras -- not of Sampras fans. and in this instance, i criticised Ferrero -- not his fans. i do not see why you had to personalise a comment that i made about Ferrero. it was not an attack on you since you are not Ferrero. and no matter how you may try to justify your subsequent attack on me, it was uncalled for. you could have simply disagreed with my observation and counter it with one of your own.

i had hoped that after the last fiasco (involving Hewitt fans) that we had reached some kind of accord over how exchanges would be conducted on this board. clearly i was wrong. i don't enjoy tennis discussions that become personally vituperative. we can disagree until the cows come home -- that is not the problem -- without resorting to personal attacks. but since i seem to be in a minority position on this, well then i know what i have to do.

warfreakbix
11-18-2002, 01:11 PM
He choked big time, would it be a consolation to say he looked good doing it :drool: :drool:

Chloe le Bopper
11-18-2002, 01:19 PM
hmmmmm lol

Not sure what to do with that..

I don't want to say he "choked" anymore (based on discussions in the JCF forum) - just when it gets that close, it's mental. And he isn't mentally as good as Hewitt, yet. That was really all that i meant by choked anyhow.

But as for the second part of your sentence *snickers* I guess he did :p

Vera
11-19-2002, 04:03 AM
This is exactly what I fear after JC's lost, ppl will start accusing him this and that. Not many ppl can beat Hewitt, you know. So I don't see Ferrero losing to Hewitt is completely Ferrero's fault. Give him credit for fighting, please.

And TC, I respect that you have the rights to post whatever comment anywhere on this board. But I suspect that you well aware posting a negative comment on a thread addressing to Ferrero's fan is going to offend some. It's only natural that we fought back and stood up for him. But if you genuinely believe that such comment is just an innocent observation and didn't expect to upset us, then I apologize for my also innocent observation of you trying to rub it in (and my observation was just based on your past posts against him, so it's not too surprising that I came up with such conclusion). I also don't expect everyone to love Ferrero or like him, so I try not to get upset when posters ridicule him. But you have created other thread to attack him anyway (and do that again if you must), I was just hoping that you could spare those attacks in this one. Such is to respect other posters feelings when a player lost in such a big match like a TMC final.

I am not pleased that Rebecca calling him a choker and posted it here either. But I think it pains her to admit that she believed JCF choked. We know Becca well so I dare to say that she's not trying to upset other JCF fans like me. We can call it double standard. But I disagree bocs of the different intends that I speculate over the 2 comments.

And mabye Ferrero did choke. But at least he put himself in a position to. I mean, how many players can come back from a 2 sets down against Hewitt in a big final to make it a match. And how many players got a chance to choke in a big tourney final at all. There's only 4 slams and 1 TMC afterall. I'm agreed that he might have let opportunity slip but I felt extremely sad that ppl hold this against him. Afterall, he won some big tourney's without choking (imagine the tremendous pressure to win a DC match in front of a home crowd). And if he's a choker, he managed to win some good tourneys and keeps himself among the top.

Anyway, I've been sad bcos of his lost, so I just couldn't hold back. But when I get over this, I would be able to appreciate how much he've done this year.

And TC, I don't blame you for his lost. I do think hearing your comment make his lost all the more painful. So I blame myself for caring what you have to say about him. And for those who say good things about his performance in TMC, thanks for appreciating his effort.

Gonzo Hates Me!
11-19-2002, 07:48 AM
Tennischick, in complete sincerity, Who do you support?!

Experimentee
11-19-2002, 12:20 PM
I thought it was quite obvious that he choked, and I'm a Ferrero fan. It wasnt just when he was up a break twice in the 5th, but also when he was 5-3 up in the first set then lost 6 straight games. He was playing just fine until he was serving for the set, then loses 6 straight games...choking is the only explanation for that imo. I dont think Hewitt raised his game that much in that period, he was playing well consistently throughout the whole set, but Ferrero's mind just seemed to be elsewhere when he lost those 6 games.
In the 3rd and 4th sets, Hewitt was playing way below his normal level, and that gave Ferrero the chance to get back into the match. This bad play continued on into the 5th set, i think it was only in the 5th game that there was a noticeable improvement in Hewitt's play. At that point Ferrero should have been up 4-0 had he not lost his serve straight after breaking. He lost those serves on his errors, therefore it was choking. In the 5th game Hewitt started playing well, and won the next 4 games on his good play. These last four games were not choking by Ferrero, it was good play by Hewitt. However at that point Ferrero SHOULD have been up two breaks but it turned out he choked one of the breaks away earlier, when Hewitt was not playing well.
Thats just my analysis, and why i believe Ferrero choked. I give Hewitt full credit as well, a lesser player probbaly would not have won against Ferrero today even with the choking.