Austria vs Australia - In Sydney [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Austria vs Australia - In Sydney

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Kristen
02-01-2005, 03:55 AM
Hey all....

Just wondering who's going to this tie?
I'll be there, to cheer for my native... i mean...for Austria!

Kristen.

bad gambler
02-01-2005, 06:09 AM
hmmm...well i've got tickets through work but unsure as to whether i'm going - don't particular want to see a non contest with austria getting their arses kicked

i'm even expecting flip to win his singles match.....

:p

Kristen
02-03-2005, 07:38 PM
:lol: @ expecting to see Mark play. Gosh it's been so strange to have him out of the news for a couple of weeks! :eek:

bad gambler
02-04-2005, 04:10 AM
don't worry its only a matter of time his face pops up somehwere

Adman
02-04-2005, 08:56 AM
Lets go Australia Lets GO!

bad gambler
02-04-2005, 11:55 AM
Lets go Australia Lets GO!

mate chant it louder so BGirl can hear...one day i'm going to get her to cheer for her motherland, you will see ;)

CMON_LLEYTON
02-04-2005, 12:57 PM
Australia should win this one easily. Melzer has a chance against Phillipoussis though and thats about it.

smucav
02-12-2005, 06:49 PM
Davis cup call for Flip (http://townsvillebulletin.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,7034,12232116%255E23216,00.html)

cameron
02-14-2005, 04:01 AM
I expect to see Australia win this pretty easy.

smucav
02-15-2005, 02:10 AM
Banned Koubek in Austrian squad (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tennis/4265281.stm)

Kristen
02-15-2005, 02:47 AM
:haha:
Yes, maybe that nobody (who just earnt his highest ranking - 34) called Melzer, can overcome his ankle injury to defeat Mark!!

BG, I do cheer for my countrys tennis players - in Wheelchair Tennis, and WTA. Ok, I despise the WTA, but Molik seems like an awesome girl :yeah: I'd sooner eat steak than cheer for the people I share my nationality with.

Kristen - Vegetarian for 9 years now ;)

PS - smucav, thankyou for posting this article! Even though I seriously doubt Koubek would ever be allowed to play (and would he even be in form!?), it will be great to see him here - though I'd prefer the guy in my avatar.

smucav
02-16-2005, 02:15 AM
PS - smucav, thankyou for posting this article! Even though I seriously doubt Koubek would ever be allowed to play (and would he even be in form!?), it will be great to see him here - though I'd prefer the guy in my avatar. It's up to the ITF; Fitzy said Australia won't appeal if the ITF grants Muster's request.

Australia to abide by result of Koubek appeal (http://www.abc.net.au/sport/content/200502/s1303514.htm)

I'd say it's 50-50 the ITF grants Muster's appeal. Koubek's suspension is over on 3/21 anyway and the ITF already agreed that the doping wasn't intentional or performance enhancing and thus gave him a very short suspension.
http://www.itftennis.com/abouttheitf/news/newsarticle.asp?id=12907

DC wouldn't give him any points or prize money (which wouldn't violate the punitive nature of the suspension). Monday is the deadline for countries to name team members so I expect the ITF will notify Austria of its decision before then.

I think Melzer has recovered from his ankle injury. He's playing in Memphis this week.

smucav
02-22-2005, 06:37 PM
Koubek still waiting to hear the outcome of his appeal:
Mirnegg replaces banned Koubek (http://foxsports.news.com.au/story/0,8659,12345097-23216,00.html)

Meanwhile, the official team nominations are in:

AUSTRALIA v AUSTRIA
Venue: Sydney, Australia (grass – outdoors)

Australia
Lleyton Hewitt
Wayne Arthurs
Scott Draper
Todd Woodbridge
Captain: John Fitzgerald

Austria
Jurgen Melzer
Alexander Peya
Julian Knowle
Marco Mirnegg
Captain: Thomas Muster

crazzzy_grrl
02-24-2005, 01:28 AM
C'mon aussies :bounce:

bad gambler
02-28-2005, 08:34 AM
c'mon aussies :D

Kristen
02-28-2005, 09:59 AM
Auf Gehts Austies! ;)

Kristen
02-28-2005, 09:51 PM
Tuesday training schedule for Olympic park site:
10am -12 (or 1?) Australia
After that...unknown :rolleyes: Adelaide was better organised. I might go there and only see Australians training :retard:

Apparently the Aussies will also train in the afternoon, at white city.

nihil66
02-28-2005, 10:24 PM
pack mas, Ösis
:D

ozfan44
03-01-2005, 05:00 AM
Go Aussies!

Björki
03-01-2005, 05:45 AM
Go Aussies :bounce:

Kristen
03-01-2005, 06:46 AM
For bg and the others keen on attending davis cup training:::
WEDNESDAY:
10am - Aussies training at Olympic Park
2pm - Austrians training

THURSDAY:
10am: The draw is made
1.30pm - Austrians training at Olympic Park.

I don't know about the Australians. I don't really care ;) You can all thank Thomas Muster for this information ;)

Auscon
03-01-2005, 06:55 AM
Moving house on at least 2 days of the tie :( I'll still be doing whatever I can to watch as much as I can :)

GO AUSSIE!

Auscon
03-01-2005, 06:58 AM
C'mon aussies :bounce:

and go Eagles!....hopefully we can get through the next to WC games without any serious injuries

SomL.
03-01-2005, 08:53 AM
^_^ Come on Aussies ^_^

crazzzy_grrl
03-01-2005, 11:04 AM
and go Eagles!....hopefully we can get through the next to WC games without any serious injuries

*fingers crossed*

Just hopefully Brad Smith's bad luck doesn't spread through the team

Auscon
03-01-2005, 01:38 PM
*fingers crossed*

Just hopefully Brad Smith's bad luck doesn't spread through the team


yeah, no kidding.....terrible preseason injury, truck crashing into your bedroom....I'm just waiting to see whats next

All I know is if I ever see him in public, I'm gonna leg it

Jackie
03-02-2005, 05:15 AM
Australia better win now. I just bet almost all my Vcash on the tie

Via
03-02-2005, 06:10 AM
hehe geneve were you the one with the tripod? i was the one with the white cap and red bag in your pic!!! ;p

and kristen please tell me you weren't there too this afternoon, you weren't the one who talked to melzer after his training with a piece of paper in your hand!!!

Kristen
03-02-2005, 06:37 AM
hehe geneve were you the one with the tripod? i was the one with the white cap and red bag in your pic!!! ;p

and kristen please tell me you weren't there too this afternoon, you weren't the one who talked to melzer after his training with a piece of paper in your hand!!!

:eek: I cannot tell a lie. Yeah, I was the one talking to Jurgen :lol:
Had to get the latest info about Alexander Popp! Yesterday, he stepped from the court, onto those unsteady looking benches. I seriously thought I was going to cause him an injury :tape:

Via
03-02-2005, 06:53 AM
:eek: :eek: :eek:

i had no idea it was you until i went home and took a good look at my photos..... you see, i've snapped you and jurgen. i thought it was a pretty funny scene. i thought you were a young mum (!!) type of fan trying to read some translated prose in german or something, somehow that's how i felt LOL :lol:

guess you want to take a look........ here's the pic

Action Jackson
03-02-2005, 07:04 AM
:eek: I cannot tell a lie. Yeah, I was the one talking to Jurgen :lol:
Had to get the latest info about Alexander Popp! Yesterday, he stepped from the court, onto those unsteady looking benches. I seriously thought I was going to cause him an injury :tape:

Is Jurgen's hair still immaculate as always?

Kristen
03-02-2005, 07:05 AM
young mum!!!?? Thanks Via! :p lol...
I was asking him about Alexander Popp... his website, Rosmalen...and Marco Chiudinelli... LOL... I wrote a list because I didn't want to forget what I was meant to ask for a certain someone on this board :lol:

I warned him that it might rain on friday (it always rains on my birthday!?!) and he freaked out "nooo... it has to be sunday...i mean...sunny" We decided that it would be ok to rain on Sunday, after it was 3-0 already... to which Jurgen yelled out "3-0 to Austira! Ciao!" :yeah: I like the attitude :)

Kristen
03-02-2005, 07:07 AM
Is Jurgen's hair still immaculate as always?
It's unbelievable hair... it just falls into place pre-ponytail tying. :lol: Though I must say...as a fan, and a female who think's he's rather good-looking, I do prefer the bandanna :yeah:


:D He looks lovely there! My head looks massive... Oh well! Thanks for posting this! *saves to computer / for emailling to Barbara :lol:*

Action Jackson
03-02-2005, 07:09 AM
It's unbelievable hair... it just falls into place pre-ponytail tying. :lol: Though I must say...as a fan, and a female who think's he's rather good-looking, I do prefer the bandanna :yeah:

How is the Muster Aussie accent these days? You did pass on that message didn't you?

JBrocks
03-02-2005, 07:11 AM
lovely pic Kristen :)

Kristen
03-02-2005, 07:12 AM
How is the Muster Aussie accent these days? You did pass on that message didn't you?
OMG.... I'm surprised he didn't say "gday" or "mate"... because it's so well-established! Poor guy... unless he likes it!? It took me by surprise. I just thought he might have a slight Aussie one... but it's possibly more aussie than me :tape:

And yes, message received :yeah:

Action Jackson
03-02-2005, 07:14 AM
OMG.... I'm surprised he didn't say "gday" or "mate"... because it's so well-established! Poor guy... unless he likes it!? It took me by surprise. I just thought he might have a slight Aussie one... but it's possibly more aussie than me :tape:

Well he did spent a lot of time in Australia? Was he hitting up on the grass? If so you must take photos.

Via
03-02-2005, 07:17 AM
young mum!!!?? Thanks Via! :p lol...
I was asking him about Alexander Popp... his website, Rosmalen...and Marco Chiudinelli... LOL... I wrote a list because I didn't want to forget what I was meant to ask for a certain someone on this board :lol:

I warned him that it might rain on friday (it always rains on my birthday!?!) and he freaked out "nooo... it has to be sunday...i mean...sunny" We decided that it would be ok to rain on Sunday, after it was 3-0 already... to which Jurgen yelled out "3-0 to Austira! Ciao!" :yeah: I like the attitude :)

that sounded like fun.. good to hear he's so friendly (or was it just you)

sorry about your perceived image lol but i did take a good look around the stands to see if there's any 'mtf' type of fan around! but there's no one that i felt i would know.... :p guess we are all ordinary people after all :p

i'm very tired today and that wind had my hair all over the place not to mention i kept losing my cap. i wasn't in any mood to stay put.... left pretty quickly.

Kristen
03-02-2005, 07:19 AM
Well he did spent a lot of time in Australia? Was he hitting up on the grass? If so you must take photos.
He was 'on' the grass... but he was basically a ballboy at the 2 training sessions I watched. I'll probably take photos of him during the tie... I doubt I'll be at practice tomorrow. 3 days in a row is kinda weird... isnt it? Or is it just weird because very few people give a damn about the Austrians? ;)

Action Jackson
03-02-2005, 07:21 AM
He was 'on' the grass... but he was basically a ballboy at the 2 training sessions I watched. I'll probably take photos of him during the tie... I doubt I'll be at practice tomorrow. 3 days in a row is kinda weird... isnt it? Or is it just weird because very few people give a damn about the Austrians? ;)

Why is it weird? They'd love the support for sure and Sydneysiders are too busy worrying about other things to care about Austrian tennis players.

Kristen
03-02-2005, 07:21 AM
that sounded like fun.. good to hear he's so friendly (or was it just you)

sorry about your perceived image lol but i did take a good look around the stands to see if there's any 'mtf' type of fan around! but there's no one that i felt i would know.... :p guess we are all ordinary people after all :p

i'm very tired today and that wind had my hair all over the place not to mention i kept losing my cap. i wasn't in any mood to stay put.... left pretty quickly.
:haha: He is a very friendly guy for sure. He gets a little angry at himself on court at times, but off court he's the sweetest guy :yeah: (My friend Arthur thinks it helps that I'm a woman.)

Let me know if you intend to go to any training tomorrow ;) :p lol... (even tho its supposed* to rain :scratch:

Action Jackson
03-02-2005, 07:24 AM
Arthur is right BG.

Kristen
03-02-2005, 07:31 AM
See you there!
I'll be the one with the austrian flag in::
Section 213 (Gate G)... right behind the baseline ;))
I may or may not have some red hair, depending on if I go through with it. Probably just a streak or two ;)

(Very convincing GWH :) Maybe I *should* go... I'll see if I can rope someone into going with me. I just feel awkward watching them train for a couple of hours, and not doing anything really interesting. LOL Maybe I could bring a little uni work with me... :shrug: To distract from the big zoom focussed on Jurgen... / any other austrian. Again,,, depends on the weather :-/

Via
03-02-2005, 07:34 AM
that's how much action we had today.... in the end we fans all had to take pics of each other to pass the time....... lol

looks like that jurgen is a popular guy! what about that dark guy with a bandana, what's his name? i have a few pics of him.

Kristen
03-02-2005, 07:35 AM
So true. It is going to be an anti-Austro riot this weekend! I would go to training again if I could get out of year 12 assessments....but the school doesn't find the excuse, "But I was worshipping Austrian Tennis players so couldn't make the Chemistry exam..." acceptable...
Really? LOL I got out of a Uni assessment task to go to Davis Cup :lol: in first year. That lecturer was awesome though... she understood that I forked out a heap of money, prior to enrolling in her class :yeah:

Action Jackson
03-02-2005, 07:36 AM
See you there!
I'll be the one with the austrian flag in::
Section 213 (Gate G)... right behind the baseline ;))
I may or may not have some red hair, depending on if I go through with it. Probably just a streak or two ;)

(Very convincing GWH :) Maybe I *should* go... I'll see if I can rope someone into going with me. I just feel awkward watching them train for a couple of hours, and not doing anything really interesting. LOL Maybe I could bring a little uni work with me... :shrug: To distract from the big zoom focussed on Jurgen... / any other austrian. Again,,, depends on the weather :-/

I am not convincing you I am just stating the obvious. Actually I'll be doing the same if the Aussies and Argentina meet at the DC quarter finals.

Take some food, heckle them in training and some uni work. There'll be some Austrians in the crowd somewhere.

Action Jackson
03-02-2005, 07:36 AM
looks like that jurgen is a popular guy! what about that dark guy with a bandana, what's his name? i have a few pics of him.

Julian "the Pirate" Knowle.

Kristen
03-02-2005, 07:37 AM
that's how much action we had today.... in the end we fans all had to take pics of each other to pass the time....... lol

looks like that jurgen is a popular guy! what about that dark guy with a bandana, what's his name? i have a few pics of him.

It's Julian Knowle :)
LMAO yesterday I was taking pics of the guy mowing the court... and of the little white dog on court :haha:

Kristen
03-02-2005, 07:41 AM
:haha: Today I was impressed with how many people were there. On Tuesday, my friend and I were the only ones to stay the whole session. Most people lasted 15 minutes or so. Then again, there were young kids playing tennis so I think it was just their grandparents waiting to go home...


Training was a bit 'meh!' for me today... though I did enjoy watching Marco Mirnegg. I arrived late, due to uni / the NEED to go shopping and find something slightly red and white to wear :rolleyes: so I missed all but the last ten minutes of Jurgen's practice... and kept myself amused by talking to the security guard. Enhancing my mum/admin image ;) hehe... its so funny... obviously the guard was patriotic... and here I am talking up the Austies... he asked me if I was Austrian. Maybe I really do lack an Aussie accent? (to a degree...)

bad gambler
03-02-2005, 08:04 AM
i can only make it to friday's matches - as i have posted earlier i've no expectations of a close contest but really looking forward to the atmosphere of DC again :)

Action Jackson
03-02-2005, 08:07 AM
i can only make it to friday's matches - as i have posted earlier i've no expectations of a close contest but really looking forward to the atmosphere of DC again :)

BG, you get to see Muster and that is good enough.

Kristen
03-03-2005, 05:13 AM
(Austrian) Training today:
Rasheed and Fitzy are in the stands... Muster yells out to him "Would the captains like to play a few points?" Fitzgerald replies " Not with you mate... I'll have a beer with you though!?" :yeah:

Kristen
03-03-2005, 05:18 AM
oh...and its seriously pi$$ing down (raining) here right now ;)

Action Jackson
03-03-2005, 05:25 AM
Did you get to talk to Thomas?

Action Jackson
03-03-2005, 05:27 AM
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,12423484%255E2722,00.html


Muster memory close to surface

Patrick Miles
March 03, 2005

THERE is a score to be settled against Austria this weekend.

Although Australia's Davis Cup captain, John Fitzgerald, is not a vindictive person, etched somewhere in his mind is the memory of a Viennese nightmare from 1989 and now he has the chance in this first-round tie to redress the balance and banish the spectre.

It was his opposite number, Thomas Muster, the man of iron who provided the thorn in Fitzgerald's side as a player at the Ferry Dusika Stadium, in Vienna, more than 15 years ago.

It was the last time the two countries met in a Davis Cup tie, and the visitors were humiliated 5-0 on an indoor clay court as slow as a wet week.

The tables, and the sods of earth, have turned, and it is the Austrians who must cope this time with the trickery of the surface - a drop-in grass court at Sydney Olympic Park.

Muster, the clay-court monster who topped the world rankings for a total of six weeks in 1996, is probably not the ideal teacher for a budding grass-court exponent.

As a player, he rarely made the trip to Wimbledon; as a coach, he says that is not relevant today. He even jokes that his well-known disdain for grass courts was a fiction.

"It was my favourite surface - I even had one at home," Muster said yesterday. "I just never liked to play on it.

"I just never put much effort into preparing for grass. But I had reasonable success on it. Not at Wimbledon, but I played all right at Queen's and in Davis Cup.

"As a coach, you have different qualities, no matter if you could have played on that surface or not. Looking at 'Fitzy', he should never give anyone advice about playing on clay, probably. But I still think he is a great captain."

Muster has a four-man team that he believes can be effective on the surface, with or without his advice. But the only name set in stone before today's draw is Jurgen Melzer, a strong left-hander who is worth a top-30 ranking.

Austria's second singles player, who will play Lleyton Hewitt tomorrow, will come from Julian Knowle and Alexander Peya.

The fourth man, Marco Mirnegg, who replaced Stefan Koubek in the team, is unlikely to feature in anything but a dead rubber on Sunday.

As the visitors' No.1 player, Melzer said he would be "surprised" to be playing anyone but Wayne Arthurs tomorrow. The Australian beat him the week before his unlikely triumph in Scottsdale last Sunday.

"He has got a good serve," Melzer deadpanned. "It's always tough to play Wayne -- he has one of the biggest serves on the tour. You've got to take the chances you have."

Melzer, whose Davis Cup win-loss record in singles of 3-10 could do with some amendment, is convinced he has a wealth of talent to consult on the sidelines now that Muster, the 1995 French Open champion, is captain.

"All the experience he had on the tour ... he can give you everything on the bench," Melzer said. "You'd better fight on the court, otherwise you don't want to come to the bench without giving your best effort."

The tie is something of a homecoming for Muster, who lived in Australia for seven years and was married to television performer Jo Beth Taylor.

Kristen
03-03-2005, 05:33 AM
Only long enough to say "Have you chosen a doubles team yet?"
"Not yet... We will choose the team Friday evening".

I got there in time to see Jurgen sit down and leave (but hey, we exchanged waves ;)) and then watched Mirnegg train with Peya for the best part of an hour. I hope this rain goes away. Jurgen should have believed me when I said it always rains on my birthday :tape: I'm so glad that it's Jurgen vs Wayne first. I don't have the stomach to see Jurgen take on Hewitt on march 4, of all days!

Kristen
03-03-2005, 05:49 AM
:rolleyes: "I've played knowle once before and.....(pause) thrashed him."
Ahh always so...you know... delicate with his words...you know?
**Goes on crusade to find pics on Getty**

gsm
03-03-2005, 08:38 AM
:rolleyes: "I've played knowle once before and.....(pause) thrashed him."

trademark hewitt , gotta love it.

Björki
03-03-2005, 08:40 AM
BG can u pls take few pics of my favourite Aussie? :)
and say Hi to him pls.

Kristen
03-03-2005, 09:16 AM
BG can u pls take few pics of my favourite Aussie? :)
and say Hi to him pls.
I'll take photos... but I doubt I can say gday for you. Tomorrow is the first day of play, and access is limited to the centre court. If John Fitzgerald saw me talking to Wayne, he'd freak out! Today I asked him who Jurgen would play against :tape: because something I heard on the radio confused me. (One station said LH would play Peya... and another said Guccione replaced Draper. I wondered why they'd bother mentioning it, if Draper wasn't playing...) So...the Austies and Aussies know I'm a traitor ;):yeah: And my hair is kind of red now :tape: (I'll get a picture to explain this) :eek:

Kristen
03-03-2005, 09:31 AM
My daily events are in more detail here: http://groups.msn.com/JurgenMelzerDiscussionBoard

Of course, I have only seen the Austrians, so that's what that info is all about.
Under the threads "Vote for Jurgen" and "Davis Cup". :wavey:
I'm so glad its Jurgen v Waynos on my bday! At least someone decent will win :yeah:

bad gambler
03-03-2005, 09:32 AM
:rolleyes: "I've played knowle once before and.....(pause) thrashed him."
Ahh always so...you know... delicate with his words...you know?
**Goes on crusade to find pics on Getty**

hey don't crucify the great man because he is being honest ;) and i love that talk!~

are you ready for the pain tomorrow BGirl?? muuuhhahaaaa!!!!!!!

CooCooCachoo
03-03-2005, 10:15 AM
Kristen, your stories are simply great to read :worship: I love them :D You seem so much fun, so I just have to go and visit a tourney with you someday :lol:

Björki
03-03-2005, 10:18 AM
I'm so glad its Jurgen v Waynos on my bday! At least someone decent will win :yeah:
:yeah: :)

CooCooCachoo
03-03-2005, 10:42 AM
My is the Australian doubles team Arthurs / Hewitt :scratch: I guess this will change?

Björki
03-03-2005, 10:53 AM
isn't Todd in the team? why?

Kat!
03-03-2005, 11:48 AM
excellent DC reports!!! lol.. I should've visited this thread earlier! i think i should tape tomorrow's matches cos i do miss the tennis on TV!

jmgsdoubsprtnr
03-03-2005, 10:25 PM
Kristen, you're gonna be going mad with the camera on the austrians, right? don't keep your lens on Jurgen the whole time! get at least 1 pic of Peya for me, k? :p

Mistaflava
03-03-2005, 10:38 PM
good luck to everyone...here are my Tennis picks for this Round


http://www.burythebook.com/upload/forumdisplay.php?f=39

safinfanbagel
03-03-2005, 10:56 PM
on daviscup.com live scoring, when are they going to go live

Socket
03-03-2005, 11:06 PM
They just put the players' names up, they should be starting play in a few minutes. Good luck, Australia!

Mistaflava
03-03-2005, 11:11 PM
this live scoring is by far the best

Mistaflava
03-03-2005, 11:12 PM
good luck to all the Aussies, I see a 5-0 win over Austria

Mistaflava
03-03-2005, 11:12 PM
15-30

Hewitt serving

Mistaflava
03-03-2005, 11:13 PM
wow that scoreboard is just sick...amazing

Neely
03-03-2005, 11:16 PM
two sizzling return winners in a row by Hewitt... 0-40

Peya's getting killed

Mistaflava
03-03-2005, 11:19 PM
Peya is no watch for Lleyton on home soil. Just like Melzer is going to lose as well.

Mistaflava
03-03-2005, 11:19 PM
Hewitt 3-0

marcelwks
03-03-2005, 11:20 PM
is this on any tv ?

Neely
03-03-2005, 11:20 PM
is this on any tv ?
on Austrian TV... and on Aussie TV as well I guess

marcelwks
03-03-2005, 11:22 PM
I have in Polish too TV niepokalanów

Neely
03-03-2005, 11:24 PM
4-1* Australia... nothing special so far, Hewitt just cruising along

Mistaflava
03-03-2005, 11:33 PM
5-2*

Mistaflava
03-03-2005, 11:35 PM
Peya unleashed a 216 KPH serve...nice

Mistaflava
03-03-2005, 11:38 PM
6-2 Hewitt

Neely
03-03-2005, 11:38 PM
HUGE c'mon from Lleyton as he returned a volley putaway longline for the passing shot to break for the set

1st Australia 6-2

Neely
03-03-2005, 11:40 PM
Peya unleashed a 216 KPH serve...nice
inflated... lets say 200, maybe 205 normally

Mistaflava
03-03-2005, 11:42 PM
2 BP's for Peya

Mistaflava
03-03-2005, 11:43 PM
PEYA BREAKS!!!!!!!!!!


*1-0

Neely
03-03-2005, 11:43 PM
Peya breaks out of nowhere... played an agressive return game now

*1-0 Austria

problem is that he has to hold it the whole 2nd set long, many possibilities to rebreak for Lleyton I guess

Mistaflava
03-03-2005, 11:46 PM
Peya 2-6 *0-2

Mistaflava
03-03-2005, 11:49 PM
*2-1 Peya

MrOschie
03-03-2005, 11:49 PM
^^

Neely
03-03-2005, 11:49 PM
Austria *2-1, 2nd set

MrOschie
03-03-2005, 11:50 PM
lo neely yo flava =)

Mistaflava
03-03-2005, 11:52 PM
wassup Oschie

MrOschie
03-03-2005, 11:54 PM
^^ i´m asking myself if i should gamble on mirny to beat hanescu :-/

Neely
03-03-2005, 11:54 PM
3 double faults by Peya, another point coming for Lleyton as he won a baseline rally

rebreak Australia
2-2

Mistaflava
03-03-2005, 11:54 PM
Hewitt Breaks back

2-2

Neely
03-03-2005, 11:58 PM
a few close balls in favour of Hewitt in this game... with a bit of luck Peya could have gotten another break, but Hewitt holds

3-2* Australia

MrOschie
03-03-2005, 11:59 PM
hey neely is that gamelive in german tv??

Neely
03-04-2005, 12:06 AM
incredible point by Hewitt, HUGE COME ON and FIST PUMP

Australia *4-2

Billabong
03-04-2005, 12:07 AM
GO Lley:yeah:

Neely
03-04-2005, 12:07 AM
Peya is also getting much more bad bounces... Hewitt knows this grasscourt like the back of his hand and knows what to expect from these holes in the court and where they are

its.like.that
03-04-2005, 12:09 AM
wow, this sure is exciting to watch

Neely
03-04-2005, 12:09 AM
hey neely is that gamelive in german tv??
no, but on Austrian TV!
but they will interrupt for the practice (qualifying?) in Formula 1 later

Neely
03-04-2005, 12:18 AM
Australia is leading 6-2 6-3

Golfnduck
03-04-2005, 12:22 AM
Come on Peya!!!!

its.like.that
03-04-2005, 12:29 AM
hewitt's antics are great arent they - especially that "chainsaw" manoeuvre... does he realise hes playing no.150?? in the world?

Neely
03-04-2005, 12:33 AM
especially that "chainsaw" manoeuvre
most incredible emotion in sports :worship: :) :yeah:

I think it's good that he is taking every match seriously... no matter if the #1 or #200 of the world!

Golfnduck
03-04-2005, 12:35 AM
Peya broke back!!!!

Neely
03-04-2005, 12:42 AM
Australia leads *3-2

Peya missed a 1000% at 30-0 in his service game... instead of 40-0 it was 30-15 then and Lleyton broke him later

Golfnduck
03-04-2005, 12:47 AM
Peya :smash:

Socket
03-04-2005, 12:51 AM
Peya is also getting much more bad bounces... Hewitt knows this grasscourt like the back of his hand and knows what to expect from these holes in the court and where they are
It's a drop-in court -- I doubt he knows it that well. Not enough time to get that well-acquainted. ;)

Socket
03-04-2005, 12:54 AM
most incredible emotion in sports :worship: :) :yeah:

I think it's good that he is taking every match seriously... no matter if the #1 or #200 of the world!
:yeah: This is one of the reasons why Lleyton is my favorite player. His competitiveness is always in top gear.

Socket
03-04-2005, 12:55 AM
Lleyton about to serve for Australia's first point of the tie . . .

Socket
03-04-2005, 12:57 AM
Well done, Lleyton! :banana:

Melzer really has his work cut out for him . . .

Neely
03-04-2005, 12:58 AM
Australia win 6-2 6-3 6-4

Solid match by Hewitt after such a long break he took from tournament tennis since Australian Open... nothing outstanding in this match, he just raised his level for a few deciding moments and that was good enough to make a 1-0 lead

Neely
03-04-2005, 01:01 AM
It's a drop-in court -- I doubt he knows it that well. Not enough time to get that well-acquainted. ;)
that court was a horrible one and the Austrian commentator even joked that it's almost a claycourt in some areas (because of the dry grass and sand)

Okay, maybe Lleyton didn't know this court well either... but Peya had something like over 10 mishits/framed shots off bad bounces and Lleyton.... 1? maybe two, but hardly more

its.like.that
03-04-2005, 01:02 AM
that court was a horrible one and the Austrian commentator even joked that it's almost a claycourt in some areas (because of the dry grass and sand)

Okay, maybe Lleyton didn't know this court well either... but Peya had something like over 10 mishits/framed shots off bad bounces and Lleyton.... 1? maybe two, but hardly more
... one played is ranked in the top 50, the other isnt... :shrug:

Mistaflava
03-04-2005, 01:12 AM
Alright Aussies....now let's go WAYNE!!!!!!!!!!

Mistaflava
03-04-2005, 01:13 AM
I hope we get a good betting line on Woodbridge/Arthurs tomorrow


-----------------------------------------------------------


Tennis Picks at http://www.burythebook.com/upload/forumdisplay.php?f=39

its.like.that
03-04-2005, 01:23 AM
come on wayneo, this is yours brother

Socket
03-04-2005, 01:26 AM
that court was a horrible one and the Austrian commentator even joked that it's almost a claycourt in some areas (because of the dry grass and sand)

Okay, maybe Lleyton didn't know this court well either... but Peya had something like over 10 mishits/framed shots off bad bounces and Lleyton.... 1? maybe two, but hardly more
Perhaps that reflects the the difference between a natural grasscourt player and someone who 's not?

Socket
03-04-2005, 01:27 AM
When's the latest that Fitzgerald can substitute Lleyton for Wayne as the doubles player?

its.like.that
03-04-2005, 01:31 AM
Perhaps that reflects the the difference between a natural grasscourt player and someone who 's not?
yes, natural grasscourt player :p :|

Action Jackson
03-04-2005, 01:33 AM
Hewitt a natural grasscourter hahahaha.

Action Jackson
03-04-2005, 01:34 AM
When's the latest that Fitzgerald can substitute Lleyton for Wayne as the doubles player?

10 mins before the match.

Neely
03-04-2005, 01:35 AM
When's the latest that Fitzgerald can substitute Lleyton for Wayne as the doubles player?
one hour before the match

its.like.that
03-04-2005, 01:37 AM
10 mins before the match.
Oscar Hernandez the 2005 Wimbledon Champion

:)

Socket
03-04-2005, 01:37 AM
Hewitt a natural grasscourter hahahaha.
Anybody with a Wimbledon trophy and multiple Queens trophies qualifies, even if he plays from the backcourt.

Action Jackson
03-04-2005, 01:39 AM
Anybody with a Wimbledon trophy and multiple Queens trophies qualifies, even if he plays from the backcourt.

Not a natural grasscourter inspite of titles on the surface. Henman is more of a grasscourter than Hewitt without the titles.

Successful yes, but a natural grasscourt player no.

Neely
03-04-2005, 01:40 AM
fuck them, they are showing Formula 1 now :banghead:

Action Jackson
03-04-2005, 01:42 AM
one hour before the match

Yes, for the doubles that is right and the 10 mins is for the 5th rubber.

Socket
03-04-2005, 01:44 AM
Not a natural grasscourter inspite of titles on the surface. henman is more of a grasscourter than Hewitt without the titles.

Successful yes, but a natural grasscourt player no.
Henman is a natural S&V player, but that's not the same as natural grasscourter. Lleyton knows how to adapt to the surface, and his ability to "play low," as Mary Carillo calls it, helps make him so dangerous on grass. Equally important, he's not afraid of the surface, and likes playing on it (unlike Safin, for example).

Neely
03-04-2005, 01:45 AM
exactly, I think so too and I thought that was what Socket was aking for

Action Jackson
03-04-2005, 01:52 AM
Henman is a natural S&V player, but that's not the same as natural grasscourter. Lleyton knows how to adapt to the surface, and his ability to "play low," as Mary Carillo calls it, helps make him so dangerous on grass. Equally important, he's not afraid of the surface, and likes playing on it (unlike Safin, for example).

How is Henman not a natural grasscourt player? He grew up playing on the surface and it's obvious that he has the instinctive things that are natural to someone who has spent a lot of time on the surface.

Noah was a S/V, but he hated grass.

Wilander adapted and won 2 Slams on grass and he was not a natural grasscourter.

Mary Carillo I take anything she says with more than a grain of salt.

its.like.that
03-04-2005, 01:53 AM
Henman is a natural S&V player, but that's not the same as natural grasscourter. Lleyton knows how to adapt to the surface, and his ability to "play low," as Mary Carillo calls it, helps make him so dangerous on grass. Equally important, he's not afraid of the surface, and likes playing on it (unlike Safin, for example).
just because someone is a solid groundstroker, doesnt maket them a "natural" grasscourt player. hewitt is a hardcourter

Mistaflava
03-04-2005, 01:56 AM
CMON WAYNE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mistaflava
03-04-2005, 01:56 AM
I played a prop for Australia to win this TIE 5-0. CMON AUSSIES!!!!!!!!!!

Socket
03-04-2005, 02:01 AM
I just checked the ATP site, and here are Tim's career wins:

SINGLES CAREER TITLES (11): 1997--Sydney Outdoor, Tashkent; 1998--Basel, Tashkent; 2000--Brighton, Vienna; 2001--Basel, Copenhagen; 2002--Adelaide; 2003--Paris TMS, Washington FINALIST (16): 1997--Antwerp, Doha; 1998--Los Angeles, Sydney Outdoor; 1999--Basel, Doha, London / Queen's Club, Rotterdam; 2000--Cincinnati, Rotterdam, Scottsdale; 2001--London / Queen's Club; 2002--Indian Wells TMS, London / Queen's Club, Rotterdam; 2004--Indian Wells AMS

DOUBLES CAREER TITLES (4): 2004--Monte Carlo AMS; 1999--Monte Carlo, London; 1997--Basel FINALIST (2): 2000--Rotterdam; 1996--Atlanta Olympics

I just don't see how Henman can be called a natural grasscourt player when he hasn't won a single grasscourt title, even he did grow up playing on grass.

I don't disagree about taking Mary with a grain of salt, but on this point, she's correct. Lleyton is one of the best at handling low-bouncing and oddly-bouncing balls, and he has this uncanny ability to run fast with his torso close to the ground. It's the high bounces of clay courts that cause him problems, especially when they're above his shoulders. That's one of the main reasons why clay is his worst surface, despite his human backboard qualities (also, he doesn't like to generate his own pace).

Mistaflava
03-04-2005, 02:02 AM
Wayne holds 6-5

jamheat
03-04-2005, 02:03 AM
Win this first set wayne!!!

Mistaflava
03-04-2005, 02:04 AM
I just checked the ATP site, and here are Tim's career wins:

SINGLES CAREER TITLES (11): 1997--Sydney Outdoor, Tashkent; 1998--Basel, Tashkent; 2000--Brighton, Vienna; 2001--Basel, Copenhagen; 2002--Adelaide; 2003--Paris TMS, Washington FINALIST (16): 1997--Antwerp, Doha; 1998--Los Angeles, Sydney Outdoor; 1999--Basel, Doha, London / Queen's Club, Rotterdam; 2000--Cincinnati, Rotterdam, Scottsdale; 2001--London / Queen's Club; 2002--Indian Wells TMS, London / Queen's Club, Rotterdam; 2004--Indian Wells AMS

DOUBLES CAREER TITLES (4): 2004--Monte Carlo AMS; 1999--Monte Carlo, London; 1997--Basel FINALIST (2): 2000--Rotterdam; 1996--Atlanta Olympics

I just don't see how Henman can be called a natural grasscourt player when he hasn't won a single grasscourt title, even he did grow up playing on grass.

I don't disagree about taking Mary with a grain of salt, but on this point, she's correct. Lleyton is one of the best at handling low-bouncing and oddly-bouncing balls, and he has this uncanny ability to run fast with his torso close to the ground. It's the high bounces of clay courts that cause him problems, especially when they're above his shoulders. That's one of the main reasons why clay is his worst surface, despite his human backboard qualities (also, he doesn't like to generate his own pace).



Henman is 7-1 on grass in Davis Cup action. :eek:

Mistaflava
03-04-2005, 02:07 AM
TB 1-1

Action Jackson
03-04-2005, 02:07 AM
I just don't see how Henman can be called a natural grasscourt player when he hasn't won a single grasscourt title, even he did grow up playing on grass.

Well Sampras and Hewitt two people that have bitchslapped him over the years that is a factor as to stopping him winning on this surface. Ever thought of the fact he doesn't play Nottingham before the week of Wimbledon. If he played that mickey mouse event, he could have won a title.

I don't disagree about taking Mary with a grain of salt, but on this point, she's correct. Lleyton is one of the best at handling low-bouncing and oddly-bouncing balls, and he has this uncanny ability to run fast with his torso close to the ground. It's the high bounces of clay courts that cause him problems, especially when they're above his shoulders. That's one of the main reasons why clay is his worst surface, despite his human backboard qualities (also, he doesn't like to generate his own pace).

I am aware of Hewitt's limitations on clay and I am not going into the reasons why this is the case and you forgot movement issues as well.

No matter how many times you try to explain to me, he is not a natural grasscourter and I have used examples of players who were successful on a surface that wasn't their favourite and that resembles Hewitt to a tee.

Socket
03-04-2005, 02:09 AM
Henman is 7-1 on grass in Davis Cup action. :eek:
I didn't know that! The single loss must have been against Lleyton. ;) ;)

Mistaflava
03-04-2005, 02:09 AM
3-3

Golfnduck
03-04-2005, 02:10 AM
GO AUSTRIA!!!!

Mistaflava
03-04-2005, 02:10 AM
Melzer 5-3


CMON WAYNE!!!!!!!!!

Mistaflava
03-04-2005, 02:11 AM
5-4

Mistaflava
03-04-2005, 02:12 AM
5-5

Golfnduck
03-04-2005, 02:12 AM
GOOOO MELZER!!!!

Mistaflava
03-04-2005, 02:14 AM
Wayne wins the first...7-6


HELL YEAH!

Mistaflava
03-04-2005, 02:15 AM
The Austrians have yet to take a set....

its.like.that
03-04-2005, 02:15 AM
I just checked the ATP site, and here are Tim's career wins:

SINGLES CAREER TITLES (11): 1997--Sydney Outdoor, Tashkent; 1998--Basel, Tashkent; 2000--Brighton, Vienna; 2001--Basel, Copenhagen; 2002--Adelaide; 2003--Paris TMS, Washington FINALIST (16): 1997--Antwerp, Doha; 1998--Los Angeles, Sydney Outdoor; 1999--Basel, Doha, London / Queen's Club, Rotterdam; 2000--Cincinnati, Rotterdam, Scottsdale; 2001--London / Queen's Club; 2002--Indian Wells TMS, London / Queen's Club, Rotterdam; 2004--Indian Wells AMS

DOUBLES CAREER TITLES (4): 2004--Monte Carlo AMS; 1999--Monte Carlo, London; 1997--Basel FINALIST (2): 2000--Rotterdam; 1996--Atlanta Olympics

I just don't see how Henman can be called a natural grasscourt player when he hasn't won a single grasscourt title, even he did grow up playing on grass.

I don't disagree about taking Mary with a grain of salt, but on this point, she's correct. Lleyton is one of the best at handling low-bouncing and oddly-bouncing balls, and he has this uncanny ability to run fast with his torso close to the ground. It's the high bounces of clay courts that cause him problems, especially when they're above his shoulders. That's one of the main reasons why clay is his worst surface, despite his human backboard qualities (also, he doesn't like to generate his own pace).
lol, the guy is a solid groundstroker, just like JCF used to be... but hes not a grass courter, hes a hardcourter, ask him yourself.

Mistaflava
03-04-2005, 02:16 AM
I truly think the Aussies can go far this year. With Arthurs at the top of his game in Singles and Doubles, they could be lethal.

Golfnduck
03-04-2005, 02:16 AM
COME ON MELZER!!!!!

Action Jackson
03-04-2005, 02:16 AM
lol, the guy is a solid groundstroker, just like JCF used to be... but hes not a grass courter, hes a hardcourter, ask him yourself.

I thought that was obvious.

jamheat
03-04-2005, 02:16 AM
sup flav!

Keep it up Wayne!!!

Mistaflava
03-04-2005, 02:17 AM
whats up jamheat...long time no see...

Socket
03-04-2005, 02:19 AM
Well Sampras and Hewitt two people that have bitchslapped him over the years that is a factor as to stopping him winning on this surface. Ever thought of the fact he doesn't play Nottingham before the week of Wimbledon. If he played that mickey mouse event, he could have won a title.
Well, if you want to call Tim an unsuccesful natural grasscourter, that's OK with me. Lleyton still has his Wimbledon and Queens trophies and Tim is still a grass wannabe. But nobody shows grace under pressure better than Tim, and I'd love to see him win anything on grass (even Nottingham) before he retires. I hope that Paul Annacone can do that for him.

its.like.that
03-04-2005, 02:20 AM
mistafellatio, you got some heavy bread on wayneo?

Socket
03-04-2005, 02:22 AM
lol, the guy is a solid groundstroker, just like JCF used to be... but hes not a grass courter, hes a hardcourter, ask him yourself.
Lleyton considers himself both, as he's said in interviews more than once. :) Fast American hardcourts are his favorite surface, closely followed by grass.

Action Jackson
03-04-2005, 02:22 AM
Well, if you want to call Tim an unsuccesful natural grasscourter, that's OK with me. Lleyton still has his Wimbledon and Queens trophies and Tim is still a grass wannabe. But nobody shows grace under pressure better than Tim, and I'd love to see him win anything on grass (even Nottingham) before he retires. I hope that Paul Annacone can do that for him.

I am not a Henman fan and no he hasn't bothered with Mickey Mouse titles on grass just to say he has won one. It's not my fault you are confusing natural with successful. There is a difference and it should be noticed to which you haven't.

Natural grasscourter and successful on the surface are not the same things.

Golfnduck
03-04-2005, 02:24 AM
What's the score?

its.like.that
03-04-2005, 02:31 AM
I am not a Henman fan and no he hasn't bothered with Mickey Mouse titles on grass just to say he has won one. It's not my fault you are confusing natural with successful. There is a difference and it should be noticed to which you haven't.

Natural grasscourter and successful on the surface are not the same things.
malivai washington was a natural grasscourter :p

its.like.that
03-04-2005, 02:33 AM
arthurs 7-6 3-1* deuce

Action Jackson
03-04-2005, 02:34 AM
Muster should have played the 2nd singles.

Golfnduck
03-04-2005, 02:34 AM
Thanks for the update

its.like.that
03-04-2005, 02:37 AM
Muster should have played the 2nd singles.
Muster should have played the 1st singles.

Action Jackson
03-04-2005, 02:38 AM
Muster should have played the 1st singles.

That's what I meant he should have been the # 2 for the Austrians.

Golfnduck
03-04-2005, 02:42 AM
Score?

marcelwks
03-04-2005, 02:47 AM
7-6 6-2

its.like.that
03-04-2005, 02:59 AM
game over, this belongs to king wayneo (H)

Golfnduck
03-04-2005, 03:00 AM
What's the score?

Mistaflava
03-04-2005, 03:10 AM
7-6 6-2 2-2

Mistaflava
03-04-2005, 03:11 AM
Arthurs breaks

*3-2

Mistaflava
03-04-2005, 03:14 AM
Arthurs still looking great with his service game...

its.like.that
03-04-2005, 03:15 AM
Arthurs still looking great with his service game...
yo, you on him big? I put a quarter of my bank on him at 1.77

Mistaflava
03-04-2005, 03:17 AM
Arthurs 7-6 6-2 4-2*

Mistaflava
03-04-2005, 03:18 AM
yo, you on him big? I put a quarter of my bank on him at 1.77



yeah bro, with the way he has been playing, I went pretty big on him


:D :eek:

Mistaflava
03-04-2005, 03:19 AM
Arthurs 7-6 6-2 *4-3

Mistaflava
03-04-2005, 03:24 AM
Arthurs 7-6 6-2 5-3*

Mistaflava
03-04-2005, 03:25 AM
Arthurs serving for the match...CMON WAYNE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Auscon
03-04-2005, 03:35 AM
Wayne continues the great form

made some fantastic shots in that match, pretty impressive on the return of serve

its.like.that
03-04-2005, 03:41 AM
its WAYNES WORLD... saves off 4 bp's, and takes home the green.

its.like.that
03-04-2005, 03:46 AM
hot tip for any gamblers. AFL tonight, eagles to cream the roos

Auscon
03-04-2005, 04:07 AM
might still go to the eagles match

its.like.that
03-04-2005, 04:28 AM
you an eagles fan mr dundee?? :O they're my favourite team ;)

Neely
03-04-2005, 04:45 AM
The interview done with Melzer on Austrian TV afterwards would easily qualify for the "stupid journalist questions" thread...




Natural grasscourter and successful on the surface are not the same things.
That's true and this is obvious. The important thing is that success can be at least numerically measured -namely by won matches, titles...-, naturalness not. It's up to each of his/her own what to consider as naturalness.

Björki
03-04-2005, 05:30 AM
well done Aussies :)

FanOfHewitt
03-04-2005, 05:31 AM
No matter how many times you try to explain to me, he is not a natural grasscourter and I have used examples of players who were successful on a surface that wasn't their favourite and that resembles Hewitt to a tee.

What is the definition of a 'natural on a surface'?

If its something like 'when your unmodified style of play suits the surface' then I'd say Hewitt is a natural on grass. If it's a matter of 'playing most of your tennis there, or growing up on the surface, or learning the mechanincs of the game whilst on the surface' then no, he's not a natural.

I don't think 'what you consider to be your favourite surface' is a good definition for being a natural on the surface. You could be a sucker for punishment and say your least favourite surface is your favoutire becuase you face the most challenges there.

He may not have the traditional style for sucess on grass, but I think playing on the surface is natural enough to him, given his style of play as has been noted by Socket.

Auscon
03-04-2005, 06:11 AM
you an eagles fan mr dundee?? :O they're my favourite team ;)

yep

looking forward to a successful year

and to seeing an injury free remainder to the pre-season

Kristen
03-04-2005, 06:32 AM
OMFG... It was like two Jurgens out there.
The Jurgen I'm used to...
and the Jurgen that has issues with left-handers.

I had a great time though. If only Wayne could win (more), maybe he could fit into the Roddick/PimPim group... It was nice to see the fans around me were embarrassed by some members of the Fan(sp)a(s)tics... They yelled out stupid German/Austrian words like schnitzel and then during the interview (You thumped him again wayne). It's not the words... its more like the way they were said, and the timing. So many times during a point, someone would hit a shot, and it would barely go over the net..."ooohhh!!!!" which was then met by an UE from Jurgen. OMG I was so pissed off! The umpire didn't say anything and it happened at least three times. Mobiles went off and still, nothing. But, when Jurgen smashed a ball onto the roof of the stadium, Ump remembered how to do his job and issued a CV warning for ball abuse :rolleyes:

Aside from all that, I'm glad Alex put up a bit of a fight out there, and I'm impressed that Jurgen returned a number of Wayne's serves. Tricky bastard he is! (said in jest!)

Action Jackson
03-04-2005, 06:56 AM
What is the definition of a 'natural on a surface'?

What are people not getting? Natural ability given anything is something that can't be measured by titles and tournament victories.

It's not that difficult to see someone who is naturally talented and someone who isn't as talented who has worked a lot harder for their success. This in pure ability and nothing else.

Gaston Gaudio is a natural on clay that is obvious, the movement, the style of game he plays and

If its something like 'when your unmodified style of play suits the surface' then I'd say Hewitt is a natural on grass. If it's a matter of 'playing most of your tennis there, or growing up on the surface, or learning the mechanincs of the game whilst on the surface' then no, he's not a natural.

See above answer. Hewitt is not a natural no matter how much propaganda people will come out saying otherwise.

I don't think 'what you consider to be your favourite surface' is a good definition for being a natural on the surface. You could be a sucker for punishment and say your least favourite surface is your favoutire becuase you face the most challenges there.

Federer is a better example of someone who is a natural on grass and didn't grow up playing it, more so than Hewitt could ever dream of.

He may not have the traditional style for sucess on grass, but I think playing on the surface is natural enough to him, given his style of play as has been noted by Socket.

Last time success on a surface does not translate to natural ability. Wilander adapted on won titles on all surfaces and there was no way he was a grasscourt natural at all.

Get the difference, this is not about whether he can play on the surface and never has been and that has been proven enough. Natural grasscourter no, successful on grass yes, there are differences and that are not being noticed.

Kristen
03-04-2005, 07:04 AM
Kristen, your stories are simply great to read :worship: I love them :D You seem so much fun, so I just have to go and visit a tourney with you someday :lol:
I think we would have a blast Martijn! Trying to keep out of trouble, and harassing our guys for news (on Alex P) and photos!

I got plenty of photos of Peya... I'd say about an entire roll of film!

FanOfHewitt
03-04-2005, 08:48 AM
What are people not getting? Natural ability given anything is something that can't be measured by titles and tournament victories.

It's not that difficult to see someone who is naturally talented and someone who isn't as talented who has worked a lot harder for their success. This in pure ability and nothing else.

Gaston Gaudio is a natural on clay that is obvious, the movement, the style of game he plays and

Ok, are you making a general point that Hewitt isn't really that naturally talented? If that's the case then I tend to agree. But if you think of him as naturally talented on hardcourt and not on grasscourt I'd like to hear your reasoning for it.

I don't think Hewitt is the most naturally talented, but I definitely think grass court tennis suits his unmodified game as well as any other surface does and that's pretty much what I was taking naturally talented to mean.

His highest winning percentage on any surface, whilst not irrefutable proof for being best suited to the surface, is a very good indicator, and it happens to be on grass.

If you take naturally talented to be something other than your unmodified style of play which is well suited to the surface then we are arguing about different things.

See above answer. Hewitt is not a natural no matter how much propaganda people will come out saying otherwise.

It's statements like this that make me think you are talking about Hewitt's talents in general, rather than in reference to his suitability to particular surfaces. in which case, I agree.



Federer is a better example of someone who is a natural on grass and didn't grow up playing it, more so than Hewitt could ever dream of.

True, but what's the relevance of this? Do you mean that you have to be the best on the surface to be regarded as a natural on it?


Last time success on a surface does not translate to natural ability. Wilander adapted on won titles on all surfaces and there was no way he was a grasscourt natural at all.

Success is not a necessary feature of natural ability, but in most cases it is a good indication for it. A key to why I think that Hewitt is a natural on grass is that unlike Wilander, he doesn't have to adapt to be succesful on it. That's why I was saying naturally talented on a surface means the surface suits your game when it's unmodified.

Action Jackson
03-04-2005, 09:00 AM
Ok, are you making a general point that Hewitt isn't really that naturally talented? If that's the case then I tend to agree. But if you think of him as naturally talented on hardcourt and not on grasscourt I'd like to hear your reasoning for it.

Incorrect, Hewitt is talented as you have to a certain amount of talent to get ahead in the game, but as for natural talent there are much better in this regard. Or would you like me to name them? He has his talents elsewhere and this is clearly shown.

Hewitt' s game is perfectly suited for the surface which he has most of his success on, that really doesn't need explaining.

I don't think Hewitt is the most naturally talented, but I definitely think grass court tennis suits his unmodified game as well as any other surface does and that's pretty much what I was taking naturally talented to mean.

He has adaptabilty and he isn't that unfamiliar with it as at some point as a junior he would have to played on grass even though most of the tournaments in Australia are Rebound Ace.

His highest winning percentage on any surface, whilst not irrefutable proof for being best suited to the surface, is a very good indicator, and it happens to be on grass.

He is good on the surface and there are less tournaments played on it and winning a few of them on a rarely played surface would give him a higher percentage. Clown Roddick as Leena loves to crow about has won 4 titles on clay, but that doesn't mean he is naturally talented on the surface and I don't need to explain why.

If you take naturally talented to be something other than you runmodified style of play which is well suited to the surface then we are arguing about different things.

I've been very clear on exactly what I have said from the start.


True, but what's the relevancy of this? Do you mean that you have to be the best on the surface to be regarded as a natural on it?

You are the one who is trying to convince me and not very well that Hewitt is a natural grasscourter. I gave an example of who is a natural on the surface in spite of not growing up on it. Very relevant actually.


Success is not a necessary feature of natural ability, but in most cases it is a good indication for it. A key to why I think that Hewitt is a natural on grass is that unlike Wilander, he doesn't have to adapt to be succesful on it. That's why I was saying naturally talented on a surface means the surface suits your game when it's unmodified.

How didn't have to adapt his game at least slightly and don't forget Wilander had to play against top serve/volleyers on grass whereas Hewitt hasn't consistently long a time. Why is this still going on actually? Wilander was not a natural this is clear, he had to adapt his game to have success. Hewitt has done the same and he is not a natural grasscourter inspite of his successes on it.

SomL.
03-04-2005, 09:35 AM
Congratulations Lleyton and Wayne ^_^ Good luck for the double match tomorrow Come on : )

Socket
03-05-2005, 04:45 AM
Todd and Wayne now down 2 sets to 1 in the doubles . . . Maybe Fitzie should have played subbed in Lleyton for Wayne after all.

bad gambler
03-05-2005, 04:58 AM
this combination for austria haven't won a DC tie in 4 attempts

bad gambler
03-05-2005, 04:59 AM
australia leads 3-1 in the 4th set and pressure on austrians serve in the 5th game at 30-30

Action Jackson
03-05-2005, 05:06 AM
The Aussies got nothing to worry about, just get ready for the Quarter Finals.

Golfnduck
03-05-2005, 05:25 AM
So the Austrians are leading 2 sets to 1?

bad gambler
03-05-2005, 05:55 AM
5th set

woody serving deuce down 3-4

bad gambler
03-05-2005, 05:58 AM
4-4

bad gambler
03-05-2005, 06:01 AM
deuce on austrians serve

bad gambler
03-05-2005, 06:21 AM
aussies have wrapped up the tie

FanOfHewitt
03-05-2005, 06:26 AM
Incorrect, Hewitt is talented as you have to a certain amount of talent to get ahead in the game, but as for natural talent there are much better in this regard. Or would you like me to name them? He has his talents elsewhere and this is clearly shown.

Hewitt' s game is perfectly suited for the surface which he has most of his success on, that really doesn't need explaining.

Just reading through some of your previous posts in this thread, you have said that natural talent is 'pure ability' and agreed that Hewitt is not a grass courter but a hardcouter. I would just like to know what makes him more of a hardcourter than a grass courter?

Do you think he has pure ability on hardcourts as opposed to grass courts, or he lacks pure ability on all surfaces?

In the overall scheme of things, Hewitt doesn't have the most natural talent, or pure ability, but I think he is as good on grass courts as he is on hardcourts.


He has adaptabilty and he isn't that unfamiliar with it as at some point as a junior he would have to played on grass even though most of the tournaments in Australia are Rebound Ace.

How does he have to adapt to the surface? He likes it when the ball skids through and stays low which means he doesn't have to work hard to generate his own pace, he specialises in passing shots and especially lobs when players are drawn into the net (where players find themselves often on grass), he is a great return of serve which counters the most dangerous aspect on grass courts (the serve), his game is extremely suited to the surface.

I don't think he had to make any real adaptions for the surface.

He is good on the surface and there are less tournaments played on it and winning a few of them on a rarely played surface would give him a higher percentage. Clown Roddick as Leena loves to crow about has won 4 titles on clay, but that doesn't mean he is naturally talented on the surface and I don't need to explain why.

Quite a bit of a difference winning Wimbledon and Queens titles where he has had to beat the likes of Sampras, Ivanisevic, Henman to Roddick's performances winning nothing clay titles where he hasn't beaten any strong clay court players.


You are the one who is trying to convince me and not very well that Hewitt is a natural grasscourter. I gave an example of who is a natural on the surface in spite of not growing up on it. Very relevant actually.

Giving an example of a greater natural talent in no way disproves that another player is not a natural talent on a surface. It's like me saying Ivan Lendl was a great player, and you saying no he wasn't, Pete Sampras was a great player. No relevance whatsoever.

Anyway I am not claiming that Hewitt has pure ability, just that he is as well suited to grass as he is to any other surface around.


How didn't have to adapt his game at least slightly and don't forget Wilander had to play against top serve/volleyers on grass whereas Hewitt hasn't consistently long a time.

Well, Hewitt has beaten the likes of Sampras, Ivanisevic, Henman, Philippoussis. That's not a bad list.

Why is this still going on actually? Wilander was not a natural this is clear, he had to adapt his game to have success. Hewitt has done the same and he is not a natural grasscourter inspite of his successes on it.

You haven't said anything about how Hewitt has had to adapt his game for grass. How has he? what adjustements has he made which now allow him to be sucessful on it?

Action Jackson
03-05-2005, 06:32 AM
aussies have wrapped up the tie

What and you didn't know that. :)

Auscon
03-05-2005, 06:32 AM
3-0

Didnt get to see the last couple of doubles sets because of the rain :(

Nice work guys!

bad gambler
03-05-2005, 06:33 AM
now the one I have marked in my calendar - argentina coming down under!

Action Jackson
03-05-2005, 06:49 AM
Just reading through some of your previous posts in this thread, you have said that natural talent is 'pure ability' and agreed that Hewitt is not a grass courter but a hardcouter. I would just like to know what makes him more of a hardcourter than a grass courter?

It's obvious you watch tennis and his game is perfectly suited to hardcourts, even you have pointed out as to why he is crap on clay when in theory his game could be suited to that surface as well as hardcourts.

Do you think he has pure ability on hardcourts as opposed to grass courts, or he lacks pure ability on all surfaces?

He lacks ability on clay, but as for pure ability it's hardcourts where he does his most damage.

In the overall scheme of things, Hewitt doesn't have the most natural talent, or pure ability, but I think he is as good on grass courts as he is on hardcourts.

No one has ever said Hewitt is the most naturally gifted, he makes up for it in another ways.

How does he have to adapt to the surface? He likes it when the ball skids through and stays low which means he doesn't have to work hard to generate his own pace, he specialises in passing shots and especially lobs when players are drawn into the net (where players find themselves often on grass), he is a great return of serve which counters the most dangerous aspect on grass courts (the serve), his game is extremely suited to the surface.

It depends on the weather as to how low the ball bounce is, if it's dry then it's not as good for him as if it has been a bit damp for the higher bounce in the warmer conditions.

He has used what he has learnt on faster hardcourts to use effectively on grass. Therefore he has adapted his game to suit that particular surface and done a very good job of that.

Next you will be telling me he says 'come on" in between points. I have seen Hewitt play before.

Quite a bit of a difference winning Wimbledon and Queens titles where he has had to beat the likes of Sampras, Ivanisevic, Henman to Roddick's performances winning nothing clay titles where he hasn't beaten any strong clay court players.

Like I have a problem with Hewitt's results on this surface. I never have had a problem with the players he has beaten on it and they aren't Mickey Mouse titles.

Giving an example of a greater natural talent in no way disproves that another player is not a natural talent on a surface. It's like me saying Ivan Lendl was a great player, and you saying no he wasn't, Pete Sampras was a great player. No relevance whatsoever.

You asked me for an example and I gave you one. It doesn't mean you have to like the example provided and it fits. I gave an example of someone who is a natural talent on a surface that they didn't grow up on. No more and no less.

Anyway I am not claiming that Hewitt has pure ability, just that he is as well suited to grass as he is to any other surface around.

Just as suited to clay, nah I didn't think so, but this is about his natural ability as a grasscourter. He is not a natural grasscourt player, a successful one yes, but not a natural one.

You haven't said anything about how Hewitt has had to adapt his game for grass. How has he? what adjustements has he made which now allow him to be sucessful on it?

He has to be more aggressive on grass, he can get away with being semi-passive on a hardcourt, whereas on grass if he does that, then it won't work in the biggest matches.

Auscon
03-05-2005, 06:54 AM
now the one I have marked in my calendar - argentina coming down under!

I'll back Lleyton against whichever argy star he plays, but we'd better pray Waynes in some really good form

FanOfHewitt
03-05-2005, 07:17 AM
It's obvious you watch tennis and his game is perfectly suited to hardcourts, even you have pointed out as to why he is crap on clay when in theory his game could be suited to that surface as well as hardcourts.

Yes hewitt is well suited to hardcourts. There are dificiencies in Hewitt's game on clay which I don't see being there on crass courts.


He lacks ability on clay, but as for pure ability it's hardcourts where he does his most damage.

True, but that's also where most of the season is played so it's no wonder he does his most damage there.


No one has ever said Hewitt is the most naturally gifted, he makes up for it in another ways.

That's right.


It depends on the weather as to how low the ball bounce is, if it's dry then it's not as good for him as if it has been a bit damp for the higher bounce in the warmer conditions.

And on hard courts it depends on the speed of the surface as to how much it suits him. Generally I think both surfaces suit him.


He has used what he has learnt on faster hardcourts to use effectively on grass. Therefore he has adapted his game to suit that particular surface and done a very good job of that.

Taking what comes as normal to you on one surface and using it on another surface is not adapting, it's sticking to what you know.

Adapting is having to make changes in your style of play from one surface to the next. I don't think Hewitt has really had to do that.


Next you will be telling me he says 'come on" in between points. I have seen Hewitt play before.

If I make obvious points or points that seem clearly wrong, its not to mock your knowledge of the game, it's to make sure you know where I am coming from.


Like I have a problem with Hewitt's results on this surface. I never have had a problem with the players he has beaten on it and they aren't Mickey Mouse titles.

Cool.


You asked me for an example and I gave you one. It doesn't mean you have to like the example provided and it fits. I gave an example of someone who is a natural talent on a surface that they didn't grow up on. No more and no less.

Actually i asked for a definition of natural ability, not an example of it.



Just as suited to clay, nah I didn't think so, but this is about his natural ability as a grasscourter. He is not a natural grasscourt player, a successful one yes, but not a natural one.

LOL, cheap shot.

What I meant to say is that he is as well suited to grass as he is to any other surface which he is well suited to.

Okay, you disagree.


He has to be more aggressive on grass, he can get away with being semi-passive on a hardcourt, whereas on grass if he does that, then it won't work in the biggest matches.

Well pretty much the only player he has to be more agressive against is Roger Federer and I think that applies moreso on hardcourts than it does to grass. (he'll never be able to hit with Safin and always be at the mercy of his shotmaking). No doubt it applies to grass too, but given the way he has been bent over by Roger on hardcourts of late, I think it's there that this adaption must be made most.

Action Jackson
03-05-2005, 07:38 AM
Yes hewitt is well suited to hardcourts. There are dificiencies in Hewitt's game on clay which I don't see being there on crass courts.

Well he can move better on grass and excess topspin are the main ones.

True, but that's also where most of the season is played so it's no wonder he does his most damage there.

Yes, but that's because his game is suited to it. If it wasn't, then he might be around 10-20 and not where is now.

That's right.

For once we can agree on something :p

And on hard courts it depends on the speed of the surface as to how much it suits him. Generally I think both surfaces suit him.

He can do well on faster hardcourts, but a slow hardcourt isn't really that slow.

Taking what comes as normal to you on one surface and using it on another surface is not adapting, it's sticking to what you know.

If he has to be more aggressive to keep his status within the game that is a major change and therefore it's adapting to that challenge, within his particular game. He's not going to blast winners all the time, but he improved that and his serve is stronger that is adapting and improving at the same time.

If I make obvious points or points that seem clearly wrong, its not to mock your knowledge of the game, it's to make sure you know where I am coming from.

I wouldn't know I never mocked anyone.

Actually i asked for a definition of natural ability, not an example of it.

Sometimes it's easier to give an example than a definition.

What I meant to say is that he is as well suited to grass as he is to any other surface which he is well suited to.

Okay, you disagree.

It's a circular argument and I am sticking to the successful but not natural side of this debate. The first one is better than the second, but that's not the point.


Well pretty much the only player he has to be more agressive against is Roger Federer and I think that applies moreso on hardcourts than it does to grass. (he'll never be able to hit with Safin and always be at the mercy of his shotmaking). No doubt it applies to grass too, but given the way he has been bent over by Roger on hardcourts of late, I think it's there that this adaption must be made most.

Actually he has to be more aggressive generally and he is a much better player than when he was # 1. That is adapting to the challenge he is set now.

Björki
03-05-2005, 07:54 AM
well done Aussies :clap2:

Smankyou
03-05-2005, 08:01 AM
OMFG... It was like two Jurgens out there.
The Jurgen I'm used to...
and the Jurgen that has issues with left-handers.
Everyone has issues with left-handers. Left handers included.

Neely
03-05-2005, 08:02 AM
big chances waisted by Austrian team :fiery: :fiery:
:banghead:

For Austria in Davis Cup the following equivalences are true:
Melzer playing like Kiefer
Koubek playing like Haas

Action Jackson
03-05-2005, 08:02 AM
Jurgen has an issue with his hair and Davis Cup.

JMG
03-05-2005, 08:17 AM
big chances waisted by Austrian team :fiery: :fiery:
:banghead:

For Austria in Davis Cup the following equivalences are true:
Melzer playing like Kiefer
Koubek playing like Haas

But look at the tie against Finland few years ago. Koubek was the one who got a trashing.

Neely
03-05-2005, 08:23 AM
But look at the tie against Finland few years ago. Koubek was the one who failed.
I know I didn't consider this because you're the Finland expert ;)

Of course Koubek is nowhere near Haas' almost perfect Davis Cup record for Germany, but with Melzer it looks like he is going clearly the direction what Kiefer did in his earlier years in Davis Cup play for Germany.

I watched that match against Arthurs last night. Arthurs played well, props to him for playing what he is able to, but at the same time Melzer didn't play what he is capable of and what you see him playing sometimes in "normal" tournaments.

Action Jackson
03-05-2005, 08:34 AM
Haas wasn't perfect when it came to Hrbaty and he has lost vital matches as well.

Melzer doesn't rise to the occasion when he plays DC unlike Hrbaty, Haas, Becker or Roddick at home.

FanOfHewitt
03-05-2005, 08:40 AM
Well he can move better on grass and excess topspin are the main ones.

Yep.

Yes, but that's because his game is suited to it. If it wasn't, then he might be around 10-20 and not where is now.

Yep.


For once we can agree on something :p

Three points in a row now.


He can do well on faster hardcourts, but a slow hardcourt isn't really that slow.

True but I think he is clearly a different player at USO compared to say the AO.


If he has to be more aggressive to keep his status within the game that is a major change and therefore it's adapting to that challenge, within his particular game. He's not going to blast winners all the time, but he improved that and his serve is stronger that is adapting and improving at the same time.

Yeah but I think these are changes which apply to all surfaces, not particularly grass. He's had to improve on all surfaces and so it's no evidence for not being a natural that he has had to adapt by improving his serve, hit harder, bulk up etc.

Henman has to develop a better serve (which he probably wont do) but if he does that it's not evidence that he wasn't a natural on grass and had to adapt his game to keep himself near the top of the rankings.


Sometimes it's easier to give an example than a definition.

It is, but sometimes it's also harder to see what in particular you are looking for or what is relevant in the example that is offered.


It's a circular argument and I am sticking to the successful but not natural side of this debate. The first one is better than the second, but that's not the point.

It's circular but the meaning is clear: Hewitt is as well suited to grass as he is to hardcourt. And you grasped what I was meaning.



Actually he has to be more aggressive generally and he is a much better player than when he was # 1. That is adapting to the challenge he is set now.

Well everyone is going to try and improve and he will have to as well. I was speaking more in terms of the status quo. Obviously the game never stops changing so yeah he will have to make adjustments if he wants to keep near the apex.

Neely
03-05-2005, 08:41 AM
Haas wasn't perfect when it came to Hrbaty and he has lost vital matches as well.
Doesn't matter, you can lose to Hrbaty on his home soil and that's not such a big thing because Hrbaty also knows how to play tennis, especially indoor and and at home in Davis Cup. Okay, one of his only two losses came here.

What counts is that Haas has delivered uncountable of other wins with a highly significantly positive overall record and that he seems to beat the lower ranked opponents more reliable than others, easy wins in closer ties included.

Kristen
03-05-2005, 08:47 AM
:hug: Jurgen...
:smash: to the :retard: women around me who thought Jurgen was a horrid young thing, for throwing a towel, and questioning a couple of close line calls. She was an avid Hewitt fan, and a fan of double standards no doubt.

For me, the outcome of this tie really sucks... but, I feel ok about it. At the end of the match, after almost everyone left the stadium, the Austrians were doing interviews with ORF (O/S reporter) and after that, Jurgen went over to the small crowd of fans. Signed everything they put in front of him, chatted with them and even had photos taken with him. Just moments earlier he had his head in his hands, and was covered by a towel, needing his captain to console him. :worship: Very nice guy.

Action Jackson
03-05-2005, 08:49 AM
Doesn't matter, you can lose to Hrbaty on his home soil and that's not such a big thing because Hrbaty also knows how to play tennis, especially indoor and and at home in Davis Cup. Okay, one of his only two losses came here.

Haas bitchslaps Hrbaty normally, but the context and what was riding on the match was more important than others.

Losing the vital one against Kafelnikov as well. It's all cool having a great record and he does. It's the ones that they lose that can mean more than a raw number can actually say.

It's like Hewitt is brilliant in DC, but he lost to Escude in the final where he should have won and as for the Ferrero loss I could forgive him for that considering where he was playing.

bad gambler
03-05-2005, 08:51 AM
For me, the outcome of this tie really sucks... .


so basically all my pre-tie heckling wasn;t enough for you to prepare yourself of this result? :p

i though i told you before, teh reason they drafted draper in the squad was so he can help the aussie lads out tomorrow on the golf course :p

Neely
03-05-2005, 08:51 AM
sorry, Kristen that you didn't get to see anything better from the Austrians... :hug: :shrug:

I also felt bad when I watched Jürgen's match yesterday... and this was in the middle of the night for me :rolleyes:

Action Jackson
03-05-2005, 08:56 AM
True but I think he is clearly a different player at USO compared to say the AO.

All that crap about the court being too slow was a ploy at the AO and it worked. The court couldn't have been that slow look at the 4 semi finalists who all do their best work on much faster surfaces.

Yeah but I think these are changes which apply to all surfaces, not particularly grass. He's had to improve on all surfaces and so it's no evidence for not being a natural that he has had to adapt by improving his serve, hit harder, bulk up etc.

Doesn't always work on the clay. He knows he'll never be a threat on the surface, but he does what he can within the limits of his own game and can pull out some great DC performances and has.

That helps him more on grass than on other surfaces, plus he would have a better grounding than most, but it's a natural surface for him.

Henman has to develop a better serve (which he probably wont do) but if he does that it's not evidence that he wasn't a natural on grass and had to adapt his game to keep himself near the top of the rankings.

You're kidding yourself if you don't think Henman's a natural grasscourter even with that shit serve of his and no the lack of titles argument doesn't wash and has been explained previously.

It is, but sometimes it's also harder to see what in particular you are looking for or what is relevant in the example that is offered.

It's not my fault you didn't like the example I gave. :)

It's circular but the meaning is clear: Hewitt is as well suited to grass as he is to hardcourt. And you grasped what I was meaning.

No, it's circular as you are trying to convince me of something that I won't be convinced as successful isn't the same as natural. I did get what you were trying to say.

Well everyone is going to try and improve and he will have to as well. I was speaking more in terms of the status quo. Obviously the game never stops changing so yeah he will have to make adjustments if he wants to keep near the apex.

Federer lifted the standard that is what was and he needed to do the same, adapting to the challenges.

Neely
03-05-2005, 08:59 AM
Haas bitchslaps Hrbaty normally, but the context and what was riding on the match was more important than others.
Hrbaty at home in Davis Cup is not the same like in a tournament anywhere in the world on clay or on whatever Haas has beaten him easily before.

I saw this weekend and how Hrbaty was playing, no chance even if Haas was phyiscally better in shape than at this time he was. Just ask other victims of Hrbaty who had to endure the same fate facing him in Slovakia.

Kristen
03-05-2005, 09:03 AM
Believe it or not BG, I don't take much notice of the bs that spews from your mouth. I have my own mind, and few would ever expect Jurgen and the boys to win this. All they were there to do was give it their best and put up a fight. And they most certainly did.

Action Jackson
03-05-2005, 09:04 AM
Hrbaty at home in Davis Cup is not the same like in a tournament anywhere in the world on clay or on whatever Haas has beaten him easily before.

I saw this weekend and how Hrbaty was playing, no chance even if Haas was phyiscally better in shape than at this time he was. Just ask other victims of Hrbaty who had to endure the same fate facing him in Slovakia.

What about losing to Kafelnikov in the 1st really big DC match he played?

FanOfHewitt
03-05-2005, 09:17 AM
All that crap about the court being too slow was a ploy at the AO and it worked. The court couldn't have been that slow look at the 4 semi finalists who all do their best work on much faster surfaces.

Well, they were arguably the four best hardcourt players in the world and the four best players in the world (ranking wise) but Hewitt had to basically kill himself to get there.

The court was quite slow. Did Hewitt excessively bitch about it? Yes.


Doesn't always work on the clay. He knows he'll never be a threat on the surface, but he does what he can within the limits of his own game and can pull out some great DC performances and has.

I think bulking up and being more agressive are things that will hold him in good stead on clay. Obviously he has more deficiencies on clay than anywhere else so he'll still be short of the elite on the surface.


That helps him more on grass than on other surfaces, plus he would have a better grounding than most, but it's a natural surface for him.

All the more reason why I expect him to have great results on grass. Problem is that Roddick and Federer have games that suit them extremely well to the surface.


You're kidding yourself if you don't think Henman's a natural grasscourter even with that shit serve of his and no the lack of titles argument doesn't wash and has been explained previously.

No, no, the point I'm trying to make is that being able to make an improvement on a surface is not necessarily evidence that you weren't a natural on that surface. So I was saying, even if Henman betters his shit serve, you can't then say ah well he wasn't a natural becuase he had to make an adaption to his game.

I've never supported the no titles, no natural ability argument.


It's not my fault you didn't like the example I gave. :)

Damn Federer! lol


No, it's circular as you are trying to convince me of something that I won't be convinced as successful isn't the same as natural. I did get what you were trying to say.

I'm trying to convince you that Hewitt is as well suited to grass as he is to hardcourt, not that success equal being a natural.

My statement was meant to be more of a conclusion than a premise so circularity in the statement isn't that important.


Federer lifted the standard that is what was and he needed to do the same, adapting to the challenges.

Yes, the challenges, not the court.

Action Jackson
03-05-2005, 09:35 AM
Well, they were arguably the four best hardcourt players in the world and the four best players in the world (ranking wise) but Hewitt had to basically kill himself to get there.

That would be fair enough, unlike some players he had to work very hard to get there.

The court was quite slow. Did Hewitt excessively bitch about it? Yes.

Not that slow, it was a convenient excuse ready to go and a motivational tool.

I think bulking up and being more agressive are things that will hold him in good stead on clay. Obviously he has more deficiencies on clay than anywhere else so he'll still be short of the elite on the surface.

Can't bulk up too much if it takes away his speed his best asset along with mental strength.

All the more reason why I expect him to have great results on grass. Problem is that Roddick and Federer have games that suit them extremely well to the surface.

For different reasons they have their game suited to the surface, but of course the changes he has made will help him moreso on the surfaces where he has his success.

No, no, the point I'm trying to make is that being able to make an improvement on a surface is not necessarily evidence that you weren't a natural on that surface. So I was saying, even if Henman betters his shit serve, you can't then say ah well he wasn't a natural becuase he had to make an adaption to his game.

Hewitt will never be a natural on the surface. He is a natural fast hardcourter. Henman is still a natural grasscourter in spite of shit serve.

I'm trying to convince you that Hewitt is as well suited to grass as he is to hardcourt, not that success equal being a natural.

He isn't though and yes good to see you understand the success vs natural argument when it comes to results.

My statement was meant to be more of a conclusion than a premise so circularity in the statement isn't that important.

You still won't convince me of his natural ability on this surface.

Yes, the challenges, not the court

Court dimensions don't change, but having to rise to challenge of better opponents is a constant.

TennisMan85
03-05-2005, 09:42 AM
Australia 3-0
Congras to Australia!

FanOfHewitt
03-05-2005, 10:02 AM
That would be fair enough, unlike some players he had to work very hard to get there.

Just in case you are being sarcastic, he did have to spend twice the time Roddick and Federer did to get to the semis.


Not that slow, it was a convenient excuse ready to go and a motivational tool.

It was slow for a hardcourt and wasn't ideal for Hewitt.


Can't bulk up too much if it takes away his speed his best asset along with mental strength.

Putting on muscle can sometimes increase speed, it's a matter of putting on the right type of muscle and keeping your endurance whilst doing it. If he can, it will be good for him.


For different reasons they have their game suited to the surface, but of course the changes he has made will help him moreso on the surfaces where he has his success.

It won't really help him more so than on other surfaces but he will get better results on the surfaces where he is a better player.


Hewitt will never be a natural on the surface. He is a natural fast hardcourter. Henman is still a natural grasscourter in spite of shit serve.

Well, if I haven't convinced you that he is suited to grass as well as he is to hardcourt by now, then it's not going to happen.


You still won't convince me of his natural ability on this surface.

I've been maintaining that he is as well suited to grass as he is to hardcourt, and if you don't see it that way then that's that. Nothing more i can say than what I have.

Court dimensions don't change, but having to rise to challenge of better opponents is a constant.

It is.

Action Jackson
03-05-2005, 10:11 AM
Just in case you are being sarcastic, he did have to spend twice the time Roddick and Federer did to get to the semis.

I wasn't and since I saw a lot of his matches this year I am aware of the calibre of opposition.

It was slow for a hardcourt and wasn't ideal for Hewitt.

The higher bounce is more of an issue and it wasn't as slow as he made out.

Putting on muscle can sometimes increase speed, it's a matter of putting on the right type of muscle and keeping your endurance whilst doing it. If he can, it will be good for him.

Only so much creatine can do, it depends on the training program and I have an idea about certain training programs catered to different levels and specifics.



It won't really help him more so than on other surfaces but he will get better results on the surfaces where he is a better player.

Well, if I haven't convinced you that he is suited to grass as well as he is to hardcourt by now, then it's not going to happen.

You're right.

I've been maintaining that he is as well suited to grass as he is to hardcourt, and if you don't see it that way then that's that. Nothing more i can say than what I have.

It's about natural ability and not success and that has always been clear in this case.

Neely
03-05-2005, 11:45 AM
What about losing to Kafelnikov in the 1st really big DC match he played?
Well, there must be good reasons why Kafelnikov was ranked #2 in 1999 and Haas not and why Haas is something like 1-6 in the h2h against Kafelnikov.

Socket
03-05-2005, 11:18 PM
Anybody with TV coverage know what's happening? The s/b is down.

MightyJurgenfan
03-05-2005, 11:42 PM
Todd Woodbridge vs Marco Mirnegg 3-2. I got this from the Austrian site.

MightyJurgenfan
03-05-2005, 11:43 PM
Still on ssrve 4-3

MightyJurgenfan
03-05-2005, 11:47 PM
Woodbridge wins the first set 6-3. Marco has some type of injury I am not sure what it is as the translation does not make sense to me.

smucav
03-06-2005, 12:13 AM
Anybody with TV coverage know what's happening? The s/b is down.
Woodbridge: 6-3 *4-3

Socket
03-06-2005, 12:17 AM
Thanks for the information! The s/b is working again (at least for now).

bad gambler
03-06-2005, 04:19 AM
clean sweep

Kristen
03-06-2005, 06:01 AM
Marco;s injury was related to his back... or hamstring I guess. He was laying on his stomach during a couple of end changes. Other than that, he played very well for his DC debut. Seemed a tad nervous (made dumbass mistakes) when he had BP opportunities...

GWH... coming to the Argentina vs Aus tie!?! I'm up for it ;)

Action Jackson
03-06-2005, 06:15 AM
GWH... coming to the Argentina vs Aus tie!?! I'm up for it ;)

If the venue is definitely Sydney then yes I will.

I hope the Austrians appreciated your support.

bad gambler
03-06-2005, 06:23 AM
i believe it is in sydney - well that's what i read in the newspaper today