Asia and South America should have a Grand Slam too! [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Asia and South America should have a Grand Slam too!

Drimal
11-22-2004, 11:41 AM
I find that every continent should have its own Grand Slam. Nowadays Europe has two Grand Slams (Roland Garros, Wimbledon), North-America one (US Open; and the World champs/Master Cup) and Australia/Oceania one (Australian Open), but there isn't a Grand Slam in Asia, in South America and Africa. :o

Asia has good players for example Paradorn Srichapan (THA/27), H-Y Lee (KOR/66) ,Sargis Sagasian (ARM/75) or Irakli Labadze (GEO/78) on the ATP Tour and Ai Sugiyama (JPN/17), Anna Smashnova (ISR/32), Shinobu Asagoe (JPN/37), Tamarine Tanasugarn(66), Jie Zheng(CHN/67), Akiko Morigami (JPN/68), Shuai Peng (CHN/73) or Li Na (CHN/80) on the WTA Tour, so why doesn't Asia has it's own Grand Slam? :confused:

I understand a bit that Africa doesn't have a Grand Slam because of a less of top players and also of money, but why doesn't South America have an own Grand Slam?
With Guillermo Coria (6),Gaston Gaudio (10), David Nalbandian (9), Guiellermo Canas J.I Chela (26) (all Argentinia), Nicolas Massu (CHI/18), Fernando Gonzalez (CHI/22) or the former French Open champion Gustavo Kuerten of Brasil on the ATP Tour and Paola Suarez (ARG/16), Fabiola Zuluaga (COL/23), Gisela Dulko (ARG/32) and Maria Vento Kabchi (VEN/49) on the WTA tour, they have so many talented players and really deserves to have an own Grand Slam! ( SOUTH AMERICA IS CONSIDERED AS AN OWN CONTINENT)

It is really unbelievable that Asia and South America have this disadvantage. It is not fair, because Europe or North America have 2 Grand Slams or 1 Grand Slam and 1 YEC (World Champs/Masters Cup) and apart from Australia the other continents have nothing! :o

It would be a good idea to introduce a fifth Grand Slam in Asia and to move the YEC (WTA champs/ Master Cup) to South America. Thus everybody would be happy! :) (Or the other way round!)

Do you agree? :wavey:

bad gambler
11-22-2004, 11:48 AM
in theory great idea but the schedule is packed as it is...where are u going to find the time?

Drimal
11-22-2004, 12:11 PM
in theory great idea but the schedule is packed as it is...where are u going to find the time?


Yes, you are right! :sad:


But: The actual constellation is not fair at all.

Like in football where Australia/Oceania have no direct place on the World Championships, but Europe and South America so many. It's ridiculous, because the low countries show us that they are improving alot (South Corea in the semis, Senegal in the quarterfinal for example!).

And so it is in tennis. South America has more Top 30 players at the atp tour than North America and Asia has more Top 50 players on wta tour than Australia, but they don't have a big event. :o

Wulfram
11-22-2004, 12:24 PM
You cannot just arbitrarily declare that a tournament is a grand slam, you need tradition behind it. It is a lack of tradition which means even something truly special like the olympics is not yet seen as important in tennis as one of the grand slams.

The lack of masters series events in Asia and South America should change, however, and they can then try to attract the prestige that might eventually turn them into the equals of the grand slams.

bad gambler
11-22-2004, 12:57 PM
Yes, you are right! :sad:



Like in football where Australia/Oceania have no direct place on the World Championships, but Europe and South America so many. It's ridiculous, because the low countries show us that they are improving alot (South Corea in the semis, Senegal in the quarterfinal for example!).



don't get me started on how shitty fifa treats oceania :(

i'm a long suffering socceroos fan and i have had too many heartbreaks with respect to non qualification into the world cup - fifa gave us direct qualification last year but then turnaround 3 months later and took it back, really pissed me off

CooCooCachoo
11-22-2004, 12:57 PM
The YEC should be moved to Asia.

South America won't have any tournaments as long as the financial situation there remains unstable. I don't think they will be able to finance and host such a big event there, though it would be fair if every continent has its own major event.

Hendu
11-22-2004, 01:01 PM
Nah, I think a fifth Grand Slam would be too much...

I would be happy if we had a TMS in South America though.

Anyone of these cities could host a TMS:

Buenos Aires TMS
Sao Paulo TMS
Rio de Janeiro TMS

Kat!
11-22-2004, 01:03 PM
TMC next year is going back to Shanghai isn't it? at least that's something....

bad gambler
11-22-2004, 01:03 PM
yes i think they deserve at least a TMC given the high contingency of players from that region as pointed out by drimal04

Hendu
11-22-2004, 01:13 PM
yes i think they deserve at least a TMC given the high contingency of players from that region as pointed out by drimal04

but Drimal04 pointed out only three wta players from China... Jie Zheng(CHN/67), Shuai Peng (CHN/73) and Li Na (CHN/80)... and none of them are top 50.

I mean, they deserve the TMC, but not because of their tennis players....

bad gambler
11-22-2004, 01:14 PM
but Drimal04 pointed out only three wta players from China... Jie Zheng(CHN/67), Shuai Peng (CHN/73) and Li Na (CHN/80)... and none of them are top 50.

I mean, they deserve the TMC, but not because of their tennis players....

actually i was referring to your post re: sth america TMC

novanora
11-22-2004, 01:17 PM
nah, i will be very happy if Asia got a GS. But 6 GS (plus the Asian one and South American one) will be a quite big burden to both players and ATP. Players have to arrange a much more tight schedule, and also it's hard for ATP to rearrange the schedule with 6 GS, 9 TMS and many other tournaments.
Besides, it's not only the thing how many players of a continent are in the top. The continent should have the ability, enough money and big enough market to organize the GS. I am sure South America and Asia can reach this goal in the future, but not now, it still needs a long period of time.
Tennis is much more popular in Euro, so it deserves 2 GS, no doubt.

RonE
11-22-2004, 01:18 PM
As someone already mentioned, the Grand Slams have tradition behind them, so you cannot just arbitrarily stage an event somewhere and call it a Grand Slam. Besides, 4 slams is more than enough with the hectic schedule.

That being said, I wouldn't mind to see more tournaments in Africa and S. America and Asia to make the sport more global- maybe even a few of the TMC's can be relocated for that purpose.

Hendu
11-22-2004, 01:18 PM
actually i was referring to your post re: sth america TMC

oops :smash:

Hendu
11-22-2004, 01:22 PM
nah, i will be very happy if Asia got a GS. But 6 GS (plus the Asian one and South American one) will be a quite big burden to both players and ATP. Players have to arrange a much more tight schedule, and also it's hard for ATP to rearrange the schedule with 6 GS, 9 TMS and many other tournaments.
Besides, it's not only the thing how many players of a continent are in the top. The continent should have the ability, enough money and big enough market to organize the GS. I am sure South America and Asia can reach this goal in the future, but not now, it still needs a long period of time.
Tennis is much more popular in Euro, so it deserves 2 GS, no doubt.

I agree...

by the way, there should be at least a TMS in Asia and one in South America...

bad gambler
11-22-2004, 01:23 PM
I agree...

by the way, there should be at least a TMS in Asia and one in South America...


to be honest it's only a matter of time until it happens - tennis is truly a global sport, we just need the ATP to recognise this

novanora
11-22-2004, 01:29 PM
I agree...

by the way, there should be at least a TMS in Asia and one in South America...
i agree with this one, but still can see a tight and long schedule if plus 2 TMS. maybe Euro and Nth America can spare us 2 TMS if they won't mind :p one clay to Sth America, and one hard to Asia, or i prefer a totally new grass TMS, but seems it's no possibility :p

Hendu
11-22-2004, 01:30 PM
to have a TMS in SA or Asia, I think we should relocate one of the already existing TMS...

Cincinnati maybe...

and create a new one... 10 TMS sounds good to me

CooCooCachoo
11-22-2004, 01:31 PM
but Drimal04 pointed out only three wta players from China... Jie Zheng(CHN/67), Shuai Peng (CHN/73) and Li Na (CHN/80)... and none of them are top 50.

I mean, they deserve the TMC, but not because of their tennis players....

China has the Olympic gold medals in women's doubles.
Na Li has been rising so rapidly this year that she will crack the Top 50 without any problems next year if she keeps her good form.

CooCooCachoo
11-22-2004, 01:32 PM
to have a TMS in SA or Asia, I think we should relocate one of the already existing TMS...

Cincinnati maybe...

Yes, one of the American TMS events or Paris TMS. Paris already has RG.

Hendu
11-22-2004, 01:35 PM
Yes, one of the American TMS events or Paris TMS. Paris already has RG.

so true... Asia's TMS could be played on carpet (to replace Paris)

and the one in South America on... I don't know...what do you think?

CooCooCachoo
11-22-2004, 01:37 PM
Well, logically speaking it should be on clay. But it could be on hard too, replacing one of the American TMS. Costa do Sauipe is on hard too.

Jorge
11-22-2004, 01:41 PM
Costa do Sauípe is held already on clay (since last year)

I don't see why ppl think Latin America can't organize big events... in 2006 2 F1 Grand Prix are going to be held in this region (Sao Paulo and Cancún). Events like that aren't precisely nor easy nor cheap to organize...

A GS maybe is too much but a masters series wouldn't be a major problem.

Hendu
11-22-2004, 01:50 PM
Indian Wells
Miami
Monte Carlo
Rome
Hamburg
Toronto/Montreal
Buenos Aires (or Sao Paulo/Rio de Janeiro)
Madrid
Shangai (or Beijing/...)

:clap2: :rocker2:

Drimal
11-22-2004, 01:59 PM
Another possibility would be if the Masters Cup is alterating its place every year so that every continent would have the championships every seven years.

Imagine the Masters Cup in Dubai at the new artficial island Palm Island for example. :D :lol:

novanora
11-22-2004, 02:00 PM
Indian Wells
Miami
Monte Carlo
Rome
Hamburg
Toronto/Montreal
Buenos Aires (or Sao Paulo/Rio de Janeiro)
Madrid
Shangai (or Beijing/...)

:clap2: :rocker2:
great TMS list, Willy!!~~ I like this one!:bigclap:

Jorge
11-22-2004, 02:01 PM
Buenos Aires (or Sao Paulo/Rio de Janeiro)
:
or Acapulco... I know it's not in southamerica but it's part of latinamerica, and could organize some MS without any problems :cool:

Experimentee
11-22-2004, 02:03 PM
I think theres not enough room for a 5th or 6th Grand Slam in the calendar.
But the Masters Cup should be moved permanently to Shanghai, it was great there, much better than in Houston. TMC is nearly as big as a Slam anyway.
South America doesnt have the best economy to support big events, but it should have at least one TMS event.

alfonsojose
11-22-2004, 02:04 PM
I understand a bit that Africa doesn't have a Grand Slam because of a less of top players and also of money, but why doesn't South America have an own Grand Slam?
With Guillermo Coria (6),Gaston Gaudio (10), David Nalbandian (9), Guiellermo Canas J.I Chela (26) (all Argentinia), Nicolas Massu (CHI/18), Fernando Gonzalez (CHI/22) or the former French Open champion Gustavo Kuerten of Brasil on the ATP Tour and Paola Suarez (ARG/16), Fabiola Zuluaga (COL/23), Gisela Dulko (ARG/32) and Maria Vento Kabchi (VEN/49) on the WTA tour, they have so many talented players and really deserves to have an own Grand Slam! ( SOUTH AMERICA IS CONSIDERED AS AN OWN CONTINENT)

And with such a terrific tennis fans as alfonsojose et all ;)

Jorge
11-22-2004, 02:09 PM
South America doesnt have the best economy to support big events, but it should have at least one TMS event.
while most of the latinamerican countries have serious economic problems, Chile has a pretty stable economy and Brazil and México have two of the 10 biggest economies of the world in terms of GDP.
Anyway IMO GS should be only 4

junekidd
11-22-2004, 02:10 PM
Indian Wells
Miami
Monte Carlo
Rome
Hamburg
Toronto/Montreal
Buenos Aires (or Sao Paulo/Rio de Janeiro)
Madrid
Shangai (or Beijing/...)

:clap2: :rocker2:

exciting arrangement! :cool: :bigclap:

Beijing has held the China Open. so maybe after 2007, when the TMC leaves China, Shanghai could own one TMS. :yeah:

you canceled the Paris bercy, which is Marat loves most. :p
but it does not matter. he can win TMS in Shanghai too. ;)

Hendu
11-22-2004, 02:11 PM
or Acapulco... I know it's not in southamerica but it's part of latinamerica, and could organize some MS without any problems :cool:

sure, but there are already 4 TMS up there... and down here we have none..

I think Mexico already has a good tournament (Acapulco), the TMS should be played in South America... in Brazil (the biggest country) or in Argentina (with more tradition and fans)

novanora
11-22-2004, 02:21 PM
And with such a terrific tennis fans as alfonsojose et all ;)
good reason, alfon. i vote one ticket for Sth America :lol:

novanora
11-22-2004, 02:26 PM
sure, but there are already 4 TMS up there... and down here we have none..

I think Mexico already has a good tournament (Acapulco), the TMS should be played in South America... in Brazil (the biggest country) or in Argentina (with more tradition and fans)
it's only a time problem for Sth America to get a TMS. SA has already have enough good tennis players, many fans which means a huge market. If they raise the economics level, ATP won't have reason to refuse it. :) some SA famous big tennis celebrity, like Vilas can do some work to ATP, maybe can get some sense.

tall_one
11-22-2004, 03:28 PM
My revised list :)

Indian Wells/Miami (having back to back tms events in the same country is silly so i'm axing 1)
Buenos Aires or Sao Paulo or Rio de Janeiro
Monte Carlo
Rome
Hamburg
Toronto/Montreal
Cincinnatti (or if you want Miami here and Cincy axed)
Madrid
Shanghai or Beijing (on carpet)
and i think the TMC should rotate every year and I think it should be in Russia next

crouching
11-22-2004, 04:04 PM
The problem with these TMS events is that most of them have a history behind them too, e.g. Rome, Berlin, Canada, IW, Miami, Monte Carlo, Paris.

Another thing is that before a TMS, there is generally a few weeks of build-up with quite a lot of IS and IS Gold events... These are usually held near the country/city hosting the TMS.

The problems with South America holding a TMS are

1. Few smaller events in South America

2. It will very likely be held on clay and so can only logically be held in the April-June period. This means that the top players will have to travel from North America (after Indian Wells or Miami) to South America (for this proposed TMS) to Europe (for the entire European clay season)

It is equally difficult in Asia too...

Immediately after the US Open, the players move to very distinct areas - Asia (hardcourts) or Europe (clay then indoors). It's very very hard work to go from the US to Asia then to Europe as the top players all have to go to Europe for the important indoor IS, IS Gold and TMS tournaments to gain those final few points for TMC qualification.

An alternative would be to hold the Asian TMS before the Australian Open on outdoor hard courts. This means it will have to be held in either the Middle East or somewhere tropical as it'll be far too cold to do it in northern/northeastern Asia (China, Japan, Korea, northern India). This also means that there have to be many outdoor hardcourt tournaments in the region to build up to this TMS.... At the moment, there are too few before the Australian Open (Doha and Chennai only). Frankly speaking, how many Middle Eastern, South Asian and SE Asian countries will be able to hold tournaments? Also the Australian Open will have to be moved by at least a couple of weeks.

I think any TMS additions or movements in the near future seem to be nearly impossible as it'll require too many radical changes.

Roger-No.1
11-22-2004, 04:34 PM
TMC is in China. It's no Grand Slam, but...

And a TMS in South America would be great. Can it be done?

jazz_girl
11-22-2004, 05:21 PM
If it's in SA doesn't necessarily means that it will be on clay. I know it's the surface players love the most, but it can be in hardcourt too. Right now in Buenos Aires there will be an exhibition, for the second year, in hardcourt as a preparation for the AO...

Socket
11-22-2004, 05:32 PM
Everyone seems to be leaving out the single most important element of holding a tennis tournament: SPONSORS. Unless and until a group of sponsors is organized to hold a TMS in SA, there won't be one. The ATP can't snap its fingers and make an event just happen without willing sponsors. And the sponsors won't put money on the line without some kind of assurances that their investment will pay off in ticket sales, television rights, and advertising revenues.

Hendu
11-23-2004, 01:18 PM
If it's in SA doesn't necessarily means that it will be on clay. I know it's the surface players love the most, but it can be in hardcourt too. Right now in Buenos Aires there will be an exhibition, for the second year, in hardcourt as a preparation for the AO...

Thats true, Nalbandian, Cañas, Massu, Gonzalez, Coria, Kuerten, and many other South American players have had good results on hardcourts.

Everyone seems to be leaving out the single most important element of holding a tennis tournament: SPONSORS. Unless and until a group of sponsors is organized to hold a TMS in SA, there won't be one. The ATP can't snap its fingers and make an event just happen without willing sponsors. And the sponsors won't put money on the line without some kind of assurances that their investment will pay off in ticket sales, television rights, and advertising revenues.

Butch Buchholz (the owner of Miami TMS) repetedly said he is interested in organising a Master Series in South America (in Buenos Aires) and he is looking for investors.
And in the last weekend Jim McIngvale said that it wasn't a bad idea and that he was going to talk to Buchholz about it.
This may mean nothing.... but who knows, perhaps in some years we have a TMS.

Socket
11-23-2004, 02:26 PM
Thats true, Nalbandian, Cañas, Massu, Gonzalez, Coria, Kuerten, and many other South American players have had good results on hardcourts.



Butch Buchholz (the owner of Miami TMS) repetedly said he is interested in organising a Master Series in South America (in Buenos Aires) and he is looking for investors.
And in the last weekend Jim McIngvale said that it wasn't a bad idea and that he was going to talk to Buchholz about it.
This may mean nothing.... but who knows, perhaps in some years we have a TMS.
Butch and Mack would be a good combination. Butch has excellent connections in the Miami business community, which is where a lot of SA businesses have their NA offices (and their bank accounts), and Mack of course has the cash. They both have the experience. It'll probably take a few years, but I won't be surprised if they pull it off. I doubt if it'll be a TMS at the start, though.

SuperFurryAnimal
11-23-2004, 02:56 PM
I couldn't agree more! Asia and South America should definitely have their own grand slam tournament too! It would mekae the sport even more international than it already is...
Though I also think it's a nice thing that the Aussie Open is turning a bit into the Oceania/Asia Open!