Red Group scenarios - updated after Federer def. Moya [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Red Group scenarios - updated after Federer def. Moya

KarstenBraasch#1
11-18-2004, 11:23 AM
Roger qualifies as no.1.
Gaston is out.

If Lleyton beats Gaston, Lleyton qualifies.
If Gaston beats Lleyton, Carlos qualifies.

Björki
11-18-2004, 11:24 AM
Roger is in.
Gaston is out.

Carlos is in if he beats Roger (he's no.1 if he wins in 2, no.2 if he wins in 3).
He's also in if Lleyton loses against Gaston.

Lleyton is in as no.2 if he wins and Carlos loses.
why is Carlos in if Lleyton wins too?

Action Jackson
11-18-2004, 11:25 AM
I imagine it would come down to the amount of sets and games won, that would lead to that possible scenario.

Fergie
11-18-2004, 11:25 AM
I hope that Gaudio beats Lleyton :angel:

KarstenBraasch#1
11-18-2004, 11:25 AM
why is Carlos in if Lleyton wins too?
Because his sets record is better. :)

TheBoiledEgg
11-18-2004, 01:39 PM
Gaston's only hope of winning that match is if Hewitt gets sick/injured/ loses the plot
same goes for Carlos

make that a 1/1000000 chance of Carlos going thru.

Action Jackson
11-18-2004, 01:48 PM
Hewitt actually is sick TBE, he has a head cold.

WyveN
11-18-2004, 01:51 PM
I can just see the conspiracy theories if Moya manages to win in 3 sets.

Action Jackson
11-18-2004, 01:51 PM
I can just see the conspiracy theories if Moya manages to win in 3 sets.

Couldn't be any worse than some of hitchhikers theories.

naiwen
11-18-2004, 03:32 PM
Gaston's only hope of winning that match is if Hewitt gets sick/injured/ loses the plot
same goes for Carlos

make that a 1/1000000 chance of Carlos going thru.

Or put some dirt over the court.

Deboogle!.
11-18-2004, 03:37 PM
Or put some dirt over the court.

There's nice pretty red dirt UNDER the court, maybe he and Gaston can team up to pay someone to pull up the hardcourt ;)

alfonsojose
11-18-2004, 03:39 PM
Hewitt actually is sick TBE, he has a head cold.
a "Kim" cold :sad: :hug:

Action Jackson
11-18-2004, 03:42 PM
a "Kim" cold :sad: :hug:

When he and Roger were waiting on the court during the rain and you heard him talk and there was definitely a cold that the Potato had.

Pea
11-18-2004, 06:04 PM
Couldn't be any worse than some of hitchhikers theories.

:haha: I don't think he has the mental capacity for dreaming up theories.

WyveN
11-18-2004, 09:55 PM
By the way this thread is wrong, Moya needs Gaudio to beat Hewitt to have any chance of qualification.
Moya's match against Federer is almost irrelevant to his qualification.

KarstenBraasch#1
11-18-2004, 10:06 PM
By the way this thread is wrong, Moya needs Gaudio to beat Hewitt to have any chance of qualification.
Moya's match against Federer is almost irrelevant to his qualification.
No, you are wrong. :)

Moya wins = he's through. :)

Horatio Caine
11-18-2004, 11:01 PM
No, you are wrong. :)

Moya wins = he's through. :)

Nope - If Moya and Lleyton win then they are both tied on 2 wins and the person who goes through is the man who won their head-to-head - HEWITT.

Hewitt is through to semis.

Moya has to win to have any chances of semis. If he wins and Lleyton loses then Moya into semis instead.

KarstenBraasch#1
11-18-2004, 11:05 PM
Nope - If Moya and Lleyton win then they are both tied on 2 wins and the person who goes through is the man who won their head-to-head - HEWITT.

Hewitt is through to semis.

Moya has to win to have any chances of semis. If he wins and Lleyton loses then Moya into semis instead.
Nope. :)

Roger would have 2 wins too so sets would decide. :)

I know what I'm talking about. Thanks. :)

naiwen
11-18-2004, 11:19 PM
Nope - If Moya and Lleyton win then they are both tied on 2 wins and the person who goes through is the man who won their head-to-head - HEWITT.


No. If A beat B, B beat C and C beat A, who's gonna be through?

Lady
11-18-2004, 11:19 PM
Nope. :)

Roger would have 2 wins too so sets would decide. :)

I know what I'm talking about. Thanks. :)

I wonder why anyone would even doubt your words! ;) I mean it! :)

Now we can only hope that Rogi likes Carlos more then Lleyton, and would be generous enough to ler Carlos win! ;)

lina_seta
11-18-2004, 11:21 PM
but a roger who looses to a not in form moya??? when hewitt beated moya and roger beated hewitt not even being in his best form? with Roger-Moya H2h 4-0?

veredict: very very very very very very very veeeerrrrrryyyyy minute chances....

PLUS even if he looses, he's into the semifinals... thats why the site said "booked" the semifinals... he still has the best match, set, and game record (so far so good)

liptea
11-18-2004, 11:23 PM
Nope. :)

Roger would have 2 wins too so sets would decide. :)

I know what I'm talking about. Thanks. :)

You're right, man.

But...I could be wrong..I think Carlos may need to win in two sets.

KarstenBraasch#1
11-18-2004, 11:28 PM
You're right, man.

But...I could be wrong..I think Carlos may need to win in two sets.
No. :)

Carlos wins in 3 = his sets are 5-3.

Lleyton wins in 2 = his sets are 4-3.

Carlos > Lleyton. :)

buddyholly
11-18-2004, 11:28 PM
Nope. :)

Roger would have 2 wins too so sets would decide. :)

I know what I'm talking about. Thanks. :)

I think you are right. If the 3 of them are 2-1 in matches, then head to head:
Federer eliminates Hewitt
Moya eliminates Federer
Hewitt eliminates Moya

So this does not work and we go to sets won. Federer would be in and it seems to me that no matter what the scores in the final matches, Moya will have a better sets won percentage.
So it seems it is possible to have the same won-loss match record as somebody else and still get the nod even though you lost to that somebody, as long as there are at least three with the same won-loss record.

KarstenBraasch#1
11-18-2004, 11:30 PM
This might help: www.geocities.com/godominique2/TMC.xls :)

buddyholly
11-18-2004, 11:31 PM
It is like away goals counting double. The set Carlos took from Lleyton could be what decides it.

buddyholly
11-18-2004, 11:34 PM
So Roger could tank it and get rid of Hewitt!!

KarstenBraasch#1
11-18-2004, 11:36 PM
Before you make such claims research what your saying.

The first tiebreak if both players are tied on wins-losses is H2h and Hewitt beat Moya
Dear, why don't you check your facts? :)

Or at least read the posts above? :)

WyveN
11-18-2004, 11:39 PM
So Roger could tank it and get rid of Hewitt!!

but why would he?

Fedex
11-18-2004, 11:39 PM
Gaston's only hope of winning that match is if Hewitt gets sick/injured/ loses the plot
same goes for Carlos

make that a 1/1000000 chance of Carlos going thru.
I almost want Federer to tank this match so Carlos can get in and Hewitt cant. :) ;)

WyveN
11-18-2004, 11:39 PM
Dear, why don't you check your facts? :)

Or at least read the posts above? :)

Dumbass.

I did and I deleted my post just as you replied. Sorry :)

KarstenBraasch#1
11-18-2004, 11:41 PM
Edited mine too. :)

Fedex
11-18-2004, 11:42 PM
By the way this thread is wrong, Moya needs Gaudio to beat Hewitt to have any chance of qualification.
Moya's match against Federer is almost irrelevant to his qualification.
Even if that's true, Moya needs to win tonight to have any chance at all to qualify.

KarstenBraasch#1
11-18-2004, 11:43 PM
Even if that's true, Moya needs to win tonight to have any chance at all to qualify.
It's not true, and you are wrong too. :)

lina_seta
11-18-2004, 11:46 PM
this is so confusing.. why not just waiiit and c...

Fedex
11-18-2004, 11:47 PM
It's not true, and you are wrong too. :)
I think the only way he can qualify losing tonight, is if Hewitt loses in straight sets to Gaudio, and Moya probably still has to win a set today. Those are his chances, which are not very good, if he loses.

KarstenBraasch#1
11-18-2004, 11:50 PM
I think the only way he can qualify losing tonight, is if Hewitt loses in straight sets to Gaudio, and Moya probably still has to win a set today. Those are his chances, which are not very good, if he loses.
No. :)

Moya loses in straight sets tonight = 3-4 sets.
Hewitt loses in 3 sets = 3-5 sets.

= If Hewitt loses, Carlos is in, as I already said in my first post. :)

Moya's chances would be slim though if he loses, no doubt about that. :)

eva419
11-19-2004, 12:26 AM
i m confused. will someone explain please

the official rule says "If two or more players are tied after the round robin matches, the ties will be broken as follows:
1. Winner of match between the two players tied;
2. Player with the highest percentage of sets won;
3. Player with the highest percentage of games won."

if moya beats federer, & hewitt beats gaudio, they re at a 3 way tie of 2-1.

does that void out the first rule since federer beat hewitt, hewitt beat moya, moya beat federer? so the deciding factor will be percetange of sets won?

so it doesnt matter that hewitt beat moya in their head to head, as long as moya has better set percentage won? (should both he & hewitt win their next match)

thanks.

KarstenBraasch#1
11-19-2004, 12:30 AM
That's correct. :)

eva419
11-19-2004, 12:53 AM
That's correct. :)
but if they both lose tonite (hewitt & moya), wouldnt hewitt go thru to the semi? cuz it would be a 2 way tie of 1-2 & hewitt beat moya in their h2h.

without a 3 way tie, the h2h is the first determining factor in breaking a tie & it trumps the sets won percentage. so moya doesnt have a chance if he loses, right?

sorry, dont even know why i m bothering w/this. we ll find out soon enough. :)

KarstenBraasch#1
11-19-2004, 01:00 AM
but if they both lose tonite (hewitt & moya), wouldnt hewitt go thru to the semi? cuz it would be a 2 way tie of 1-2 & hewitt beat moya in their h2h.

without a 3 way tie, the h2h is the first determining factor in breaking a tie & it trumps the sets won percentage. so moya doesnt have a chance if he loses, right?

sorry, dont even know why i m bothering w/this. we ll find out soon enough. :)
Well, first of all, only Moya is playing tonight. ;)

And of course it would NOT be a 2 way tie, simply because Gaudio would have 1-2 then too. So again sets would count. :)

eva419
11-19-2004, 01:06 AM
Well, first of all, only Moya is playing tonight. ;)

And of course it would NOT be a 2 way tie, simply because Gaudio would have 1-2 then too. So again sets would count. :)

u're absolutely right! i completely forgot about mr. nonexistent gaudio! good point good point. thanks for setting it straight.

my prediction: federer defeats moya, hewitt defeats gaudio, hewitt thru to the semis.

KarstenBraasch#1
11-19-2004, 02:56 AM
Updated.

liptea
11-19-2004, 03:05 AM
Roger qualifies as no.1.
Gaston is out.

If Lleyton beats Gaston, Lleyton qualifies.
If Gaston beats Lleyton, Carlos qualifies.

Unless Carlos has special clout with God, it's time for a trip to Seville for the Moya posse.

Roger-No.1
11-19-2004, 03:18 AM
Bravo Rogi!

rue
11-19-2004, 03:23 AM
I can't see Gaudio beating Hewitt tomorrow, unless if he just comes out and swings freely. Hewitt is a way better player than Gaudio, but we will see.

Blaze
11-19-2004, 03:27 AM
I just I the strange feeling that Gaudio will win in two :shrug:

Jorge
11-19-2004, 03:51 AM
Gaudio will beat Hewitt in a 3 set thriller ;) He hasn't any kind of pressure unlike Lleyton, Besides Lleyton gamestyle suits better to Gastón ;)

Ok I accept it, Is a wishful thinkful, but I do really hope that.
C'mon Gato!!! peel the potato and help Carlos to qualify! :yeah:

naiwen
11-19-2004, 03:56 AM
Sorry got a question here. I saw the round robin rules and found this:

"If two or more players are tied after the round robin matches, the ties will be broken as follows:1. Winner of match between the two players tied; 2. Player with the highest percentage of sets won; 3. Player with the highest percentage of games won."

If Hewitt and Moya are tied 1-2, Why isn't it Hewitt to qualify SF since he beat Moya on Tuesday? :confused:

Jorge
11-19-2004, 04:01 AM
If Hewitt and Moya are tied 1-2, Why isn't it Hewitt to qualify SF since he beat Moya on Tuesday? :confused:
I will quote GoDom to explain you:

GoDom:
It would NOT be a 2 way tie, simply because Gaudio would have 1-2 then too. So again sets would count.

So based on win/lost sets Moyá would qualify because he has a 4-4 sets record , neither gastón nor Lleyton could overcome him.

naiwen
11-19-2004, 04:02 AM
Thanks a ton.

hitchhiker
11-19-2004, 04:04 AM
federer not look very convincing in win over moya maybe luck will run out

liptea
11-19-2004, 04:53 AM
:sad: You know, this is a little off topic, but I feel really horrible for Gaudio...

Can you imagine coming to a tournament full of hopes and really wanting to prove yourself and then losing to everyone in straight sets? Sometimes, after I do things to make my family and friends proud and then I let them down, I feel like complete crap and a waste of air.

I really hope he wins, not only for Moya's sake, but for his own.

lina_seta
11-19-2004, 05:37 AM
:sad: You know, this is a little off topic, but I feel really horrible for Gaudio...

Can you imagine coming to a tournament full of hopes and really wanting to prove yourself and then losing to everyone in straight sets? Sometimes, after I do things to make my family and friends proud and then I let them down, I feel like complete crap and a waste of air.

I really hope he wins, not only for Moya's sake, but for his own.


u cant be serious... i dont think Gaudio is dumb... so i bet he just came here to have fun and already knew that there was absolutely NO chance for him to take the trophy.... he should be thankful he even got in...

RonE
11-19-2004, 07:01 AM
Goody! The group stage matches are reaching a nice climax- in both groups you have a knockout match to decide who will become the second semifinalist of each group.

Daniel
11-19-2004, 07:07 AM
Rogi :D

Gaston :sad:

Cervantes
11-19-2004, 08:22 AM
Pretty simple, Hewitt will play semis on saturday. Gaudio hasn't got anything to gain so he won't be motivated and besides Gaudio pretty much sucks anyway. Shame he and Coria are playing, would have been a much better tournament with Agassi and Nalbandian.

lsy
11-19-2004, 08:37 AM
Pretty simple, Hewitt will play semis on saturday. Gaudio hasn't got anything to gain so he won't be motivated and besides Gaudio pretty much sucks anyway. Shame he and Coria are playing, would have been a much better tournament with Agassi and Nalbandian.

ya ya...Gaudio sucks, he sucks so much but managed a tb from Rogi, and had many chances to break Moya, but ya he sucks coz he still lost in straights sets.

I don't see why either Gaudio or Coria should give up their places for Andre and Nalbandian when they both had chances to grab a place but they chose not to withdrawing from Paris.

FanOfHewitt
11-19-2004, 08:51 AM
Presuming Gaudio beats Hewitt in 3 sets today, and Gaudio, Moya and Hewitt are all 1 win and 2 losses, won't Hewitt still get through over Moya becuase he won their head to head, and won't he get past Gaudio because he won more sets?

FanOfHewitt
11-19-2004, 08:54 AM
LOL, just ignore my question. I see that it's wrong becuase then Gaudio could argue that he beat Hewitt so he should get in.

So it's a matter of sets.

Basically Lleyton has to win today to get through, otherwise Moya advances.

Action Jackson
11-19-2004, 09:00 AM
ya ya...Gaudio sucks, he sucks so much but managed a tb from Rogi, and had many chances to break Moya, but ya he sucks coz he still lost in straights sets.

I don't see why either Gaudio or Coria should give up their places for Andre and Nalbandian when they both had chances to grab a place but they chose not to withdrawing from Paris.

Stop stating the obvious.

Lalitha
11-19-2004, 09:03 AM
I just I the strange feeling that Gaudio will win in two :shrug:

As you had said by yourself, the feeling would be strange - if at all he wins. And even if he wins, it will be portrayed as Hewitt lost and not as Gaudio won.

Action Jackson
11-19-2004, 09:09 AM
As you had said by yourself, the feeling would be strange - if at all he wins. And even if he wins, it will be portrayed as Hewitt lost and not as Gaudio won.

You know the routine by now.

WyveN
11-19-2004, 11:41 AM
Given their respective situations I cant see Gaudio winning this, plus it seems he has a leg injury which is very bad news when you are about to play a fired up Hewitt.
If Gaudio keeps this close and maybe wins a set I will be happy.

Blaze
11-19-2004, 11:51 AM
What will happen if Hewitt win in three sets?
Because he will have a set total of 4-4 and so does Moya? Does it come down to games?

bad gambler
11-19-2004, 12:07 PM
wouldn't it then go to H2H? given hewitt beat moya i would have thought common sense would prevail and hewitt would go thru

bad gambler
11-19-2004, 12:07 PM
though i hope it doesn't go to that...hewitt should win in straight sets

liptea
11-19-2004, 12:57 PM
You know the routine by now.


Everyone knows the routine by now. Poor Gaudio.

jtipson
11-19-2004, 01:04 PM
If Gaudio beats Hewitt, then they and Moya are in a three-way-tie (win 1, lose 2).
In this case, the head-to-head rule won't break the tie (since they all beat one of the others and lost to the other one), so they need to compare percentage of sets won.

Moya's set record is 4-4 (50%), and the best Hewitt could have would be 3-5 (37.5%), with Gaudio's set record a maximum of 2-4 (33%). So Moya would go through.

Edit: in fact, if Gaudio beat Hewitt in straights, Gaston would finish third in the group (33% set record to Lleyton's 20%).

Roger-No.1
11-19-2004, 05:26 PM
I think you're right, jtipson.

This is what ATP says about it
"Lleyton Hewitt will qualify if he beats Gaston Gaudio. But a Hewitt loss would see Moya advance due to a better percentage of sets won."