TMC Houston draw is OUT! [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

TMC Houston draw is OUT!

tangerine_dream
11-10-2004, 09:46 PM
I GOT THE DRAW!! I GOT THE DRAW!!!!!

:banana: :banana: :banana:

RED GROUP
Federer
Hewitt
Moya
Gaudio

BLUE GROUP
Roddick
Safin
Coria
Henman

=====

I got sick of waiting for news on the web so I called them and they gave me the list.

Sorry, I didn't get the doubles draw.

MissPovaFan
11-10-2004, 09:50 PM
hmmm interesting draw indeed! Henman can certainly wualify from that! Hes avoided Hewitt which is important and I feel he can beat both Coria and Federer!

TennisLurker
11-10-2004, 09:54 PM
Thanks tangerine

Bethly
11-10-2004, 09:54 PM
Thank you for calling. :D

Chloe le Bopper
11-10-2004, 09:57 PM
Poor Coria.

TheBoiledEgg
11-10-2004, 10:01 PM
wondering who Coria plays 1st ???
thats a big, big plus.
Coria might/probably retires and an alternate comes in.

Carlos :help: at least do some peeling for once :fiery:

Marat just qualify :smash: no time for oafing about.

MissPovaFan
11-10-2004, 10:03 PM
Would an alternative be allowed in if Coria retired during a match though? Im hoping he doesnt of course :)

tangerine_dream
11-10-2004, 10:04 PM
The ATP has just now confirmed it.

You're welcome everyone. :D

Houston Draw Set

Defending champion Roger Federer will likely be happy with his round-robin group made today at Tennis Masters Cup Houston. Federer, who is on an 18-match winning streak against Top 10 players, has avoided Tim Henman, the only player against whom he has a troubling head-to-head record (3-6). Federer has been grouped with Carlos Moya (4-0), Gaston Gaudio (3-0) and Lleyton Hewitt (6-7). Despite trailing the Aussie in career meetings, Federer has won their four meetings this year.

Red Group: (1)Roger Federer, (3)Lleyton Hewitt, (5)Carlos Moya, (8)Gaston Gaudio.

Blue Group: (2)Andy Roddick, (4)Marat Safin, (6)Guillermo Coria, (7) Tim Henman.

www.atptennis.com

joeb_uk
11-10-2004, 10:05 PM
Thanks for that, not to bad draw for gaston actually!
He can trouble federer, and has done so before. I feel he can actually attack the federer backhand, one of the reasons he troubles federer. to be fair, federers backhand isnt as good as someone like gaudio.
Gaudio also has a winning record against hewitt, but all his wins have come on clay. so i feel gaston has a chance to beat hewitt.
Not to sure how he will match up against moya, but its a better matchup than if he was playing henman or roddick

lina_seta
11-10-2004, 10:06 PM
WOHOOOO ive been waitinggg!!
roger seems to have the easy draw.. for once heheh
this way he can "practice" becuz his first round performances are kind of weak

i wonder what hewitt is thinking right now...

TheBoiledEgg
11-10-2004, 10:06 PM
Would an alternative be allowed in if Coria retired during a match though? Im hoping he doesnt of course :)


there is no such thing as Tag tennis :tape:

or else just let Roddick serve and let him move away, bring on a better player on the ground.

mitalidas
11-10-2004, 10:07 PM
Awesome

If Coria withdraws, then the bottom half could become really tough (with Agassi replacing). Federer has it made in the top half --not that hewitt is a pushover, but Federer has had his number all year

MissPovaFan
11-10-2004, 10:08 PM
Red Group: (1)Roger Federer, (3)Lleyton Hewitt, (5)Carlos Moya, (8)Gaston Gaudio.

I seriously think Gaudio has major chances of qualifying! If Federer and Moya arent 100% then the Argentine can take advantage...

MissPovaFan
11-10-2004, 10:09 PM
there is no such thing as Tag tennis :tape:

or else just let Roddick serve and let him move away, bring on a better player on the ground.

LOL that would rock :D

TheBoiledEgg
11-10-2004, 10:09 PM
Agassi will only play 2 matches, and even if he goes 2-0
and the others in gp are both 2-1, Agassi will go out.

Black Adam
11-10-2004, 10:09 PM
good luck andy! make it 3 straight victories over Mafin :yeah:
just handle tim safely this time ok. :devil:

Carito_90
11-10-2004, 10:10 PM
Roddick and Safin in the same group? umm.. that can't be good for Andy.

joeb_uk
11-10-2004, 10:11 PM
I seriously think Gaudio has major chances of qualifying! If Federer and Moya arent 100% then the Argentine can take advantage...

exactly what i thought paul! i feel he has a great chance against federer, and a great chance against hewitt. Also fancy his chances against moya.
i dont think gaudio could have a better draw, against the 4 in the other group (apart from coria) i think he would get destroyed

joeb_uk
11-10-2004, 10:13 PM
Ok the matches i am really looking forward to:
Gaudio - Federer ( Go gaston, show fed who has the better backhand)
gaudio - hewitt (cant wait for this one)
roddick - safin
safin - coria
henman - roddick

mitalidas
11-10-2004, 10:14 PM
come on ---- Gaudio hasn't played recently, Fed hasn't played recently. that cancels out their ill-preparedness. On talent though, their talents don't cancel out

When it counts, Fed brings out his game -- and it sure counts now

tangerine_dream
11-10-2004, 10:14 PM
I really wanted to see Andy and Lleyton fight it out for the No. 2 ranking. Now it's more likely that the ranking will be decided because someone else took them out. Boo! :ras:

But then Safin could be the ultimate spoiler here. Double boo! :ras: ;)

|-Safin_Coria-|
11-10-2004, 10:14 PM
omgggggggg what an insane draw!
all three of my faves are in the same group.........omgosh how i wish i had gotten tickets :bigcry:

Space Cowgirl
11-10-2004, 10:14 PM
Thanks Tangy!!

Here are my predictions (bound to be 90% wrong ;) ):
Wooden spoons to Gaudio and Coria
Fed to win all of his group matches, but Hewitt could be very tricky if Fed's injury is bothering him. If not, what are the odds that Hewitt will be fed another bagel? :devil: The second qualifying place will be between Moya and Hewitt, I'm going for Hewitt.
The other group is tricky. Safin v Roddick: :eek: If Safin avoids an OAF attack, he should win this group. Hopefully Henman will do well, but to be honest I don't know if he has a chance against either Safin or Roddick.

Some good matches in store for sure! :D

MissPovaFan
11-10-2004, 10:15 PM
Ok the matches i am really looking forward to:
Gaudio - Federer ( Go gaston, show fed who has the better backhand)
gaudio - hewitt (cant wait for this one)
roddick - safin
safin - coria
henman - roddick

Gaudio v Federer will be a key match IMO and I wouldnt like to call it either way.

I do think Hewitt will soundly beat Gaudio though.

Roddick's serve may just be too much for Safin I feel.

Safin should thrash Coria.

Roddick will be too string for Henman I feel.

But if Roddick serves like he did at Paris against Lopez then both Henman and Safin will win :p

User id 7816
11-10-2004, 10:16 PM
Yeah joeb, I thought the same for Gaston. We have to wait and see how things will go, I hope Fed and Moya won't be troubled by the injuries so that we can see some good matches. And noone can convince me that Gaston's backhand isn't better than Roger's;)...Well...when do we know the oop for the groups?..

joeb_uk
11-10-2004, 10:19 PM
If gaudios mentality is right, he has a chance! just get the right mindstate gaudio. I cant wait for this masters cup, i have a free week at uni so i will be staying up each night till 2-3 am to watch all the matches :)

Adam Thirnis
11-10-2004, 10:26 PM
i wonder what hewitt is thinking right now...

"Streuth I wish Henman was in my group"

Carito_90
11-10-2004, 10:30 PM
Gaudio is not gonna beat Hewitt. This is not clay :rolleyes: You're talking about the Cincinnati and USO finalist against someone who I think hasn't played any hardcourt tourney.

Its as if I was saying Roddick was gonna beat Fed. It's insane.

Tricky_Forehand
11-10-2004, 10:45 PM
Agassi will only play 2 matches, and even if he goes 2-0
and the others in gp are both 2-1, Agassi will go out.

Does anyone honestly think that Andre will sit around as an alternate? I highly doubt it. After all, he went 0-2 in Shanghai (?) and bowed out and let Tojo play that 1 match.

I don't know what the status of David is but if Guille (or Roger :devil: ) does have to pull out...I'm hoping that David can play :D .

I'm hoping for Guille & Gaston to do well because those are my only favorites that made it :sad: . I'm too neutral about Roger & Marat. And I'm not crazy about Tim.

Raquel
11-10-2004, 10:49 PM
I am glad Safin is not in Roger's group but also would rather Lleyton was not in Roger's group BUT I guess I am glad Lleyton is in Roger's group as I think they can both come out of it qualify (sorry Carlos)

Hopp Rogi :yeah: Go Lleyt :yeah:

Tricky_Forehand
11-10-2004, 10:49 PM
Its as if I was saying Roddick was gonna beat Fed. It's insane.

:lol:

Tricky_Forehand
11-10-2004, 10:52 PM
How could I forget about Carlos? :sad: :banghead:

OK, I have 3 favorites.

I'm in class during some of the matches so this is going to suck! hopefully I can sneak a peek at the live SB

crouching
11-10-2004, 10:56 PM
Federer should have no problem against the others in the red group... I think the fight will be between Moya and Hewitt for the second spot in that group.

The blue group is a bit more open.... Safin, Roddick and Henman could make the semis, and if Coria is playing all his matches, then he won't win any of them.

I think Henman will continue his winning ways against Roddick (3-1) and he should also beat Coria who will be out of form, and have a chance against Safin (2-2).

If Henman wins at least two of his matches (Coria and either of the other two), then the Roddick vs Safin (2-2) match will be very important... We may end up with three players winning two matches and losing one.... Then it'll have to go down to the various tie-breaking mechanisms (percentage of sets won etc) to decide the semi-finalists.

jazz_girl
11-10-2004, 11:00 PM
Does anyone honestly think that Andre will sit around as an alternate? I highly doubt it. After all, he went 0-2 in Shanghai (?) and bowed out and let Tojo play that 1 match.

I don't know what the status of David is but if Guille (or Roger :devil: ) does have to pull out...I'm hoping that David can play :D .

I'm hoping for Guille & Gaston to do well because those are my only favorites that made it :sad: . I'm too neutral about Roger & Marat. And I'm not crazy about Tim.
Agassi has time till friday to decide if he'll go as an alternate or not. If he doesn't, then Cañas will go cause David has already confirmed he won't go cause he's recovering from an injury.

Tricky_Forehand
11-10-2004, 11:11 PM
Agassi has time till friday to decide if he'll go as an alternate or not. If he doesn't, then Cañas will go cause David has already confirmed he won't go cause he's recovering from an injury.

Thanks jazz_girl! I was really hoping that David's knee (it is the knee this time, right? :confused: ) would be better but I would prefer him to just sit back and recover and kick ass (everybody but Alex B.'s :D ) in 2005.

And if Willy takes the alternate spot, I'm cool with that because he's a favorite of mine.

joeb_uk
11-10-2004, 11:15 PM
Gaudio is not gonna beat Hewitt. This is not clay :rolleyes: You're talking about the Cincinnati and USO finalist against someone who I think hasn't played any hardcourt tourney.

Its as if I was saying Roddick was gonna beat Fed. It's insane.
you cant really say that, gaudio has a winning record over hewitt, andy has his ass owned totally on EVERY single surface.
Although gaudio isnt a great hard court player, he is capable of troubling and beating the best

Fedex
11-10-2004, 11:20 PM
Good luck Roger. IT is not the worse draw. C'mon Roger, lets feed Hewitt another bagel, and make the head2head 7-7. :yeah: :)

Fergie
11-10-2004, 11:25 PM
Good draw for Rogi :D ... Go Rogi and Marat :banana:

Carito_90
11-10-2004, 11:25 PM
you cant really say that, gaudio has a winning record over hewitt, andy has his ass owned totally on EVERY single surface.
Although gaudio isnt a great hard court player, he is capable of troubling and beating the best

But Hewitt's been doing great lately on hardcourts and Gaudio hasn't even been playing... but you know, i dont wanna say anything i'll regret about later :p

Fedex
11-10-2004, 11:29 PM
I think Gaudio actually has a good chance against Hewitt.

Horatio Caine
11-10-2004, 11:49 PM
The draw couldn't have worked out any better for Tim, or Andy for that matter! Thanks Jim for another draw-fixing! :worship: :worship:

If Tim plays well (lol) then he should make the semis but no further, because he would likely encounter Hewitt/Federer there.

I think he stands a very good chance against Roddick because Andy's game matches up well to his.
Safin is trickier, especially in his current form but i expect him to OAF quite frankly. he has already expressed his dissatisfaction at the fact that the court is outdoors and he has been incapable to string together good form in successive tournaments. Time for a brain fart Marat! :)
Coria shouldn't play and i doubt he will when he finds out his draw - he will have to be playing very well to withstand 2 of the biggest servers in the world and a tricky serve-volleyer. The draw was the worst he could hope for. I hope he plays though because if Agassi/Canas takes his place - goodbye Tim! :(

In the other half, i predict a Hewitt, Gaudio line-up.
Roger is expected to sail through and with his current injury i don't think he will good enough this time. Hewitt is tough enough to take him out if he is only 70-80%. Although the comments about Gaudio have been funny (Sjengster's in particular! :haha:) I think he might actually make the semis. He hasn't played much but since he has known that he was virtualy guaranteed a place at Houston since June, he might have been sneakily practising on a replica court since September! Gaston has everything to gain and I think he might shock a lot of people.
Moya is destined for a repeat of his Houston 2003 misery - 1 match win if he is lucky. He is injured and has been in poor form since Wimbledon.

I predict, possibly more hoping than anything (!) a Roddick, Henman, Hewitt, Gaudio semi. Henman (1st) beats Gaudio (2nd) and Roddick (2nd) beats Hewitt (1st) and Roddick beats Henman in the final.

A run like that would make me happy and would bring tears of joy to mac's eyes! :)

WyveN
11-11-2004, 12:53 AM
Gaudio v Federer will be a key match IMO and I wouldnt like to call it either way.

I do think Hewitt will soundly beat Gaudio though.


Do you really think Gaudio has a better chance of beating Federer then Hewitt on this surface?

WyveN
11-11-2004, 12:55 AM
The draw couldn't have worked out any better for Tim, or Andy for that matter! Thanks Jim for another draw-fixing! :worship: :worship:


Andy's group is harder then Federers.

User id 7816
11-11-2004, 01:07 AM
I think Gaudio actually has a good chance against Hewitt.
HE DOES :rocker: HE DOES :rocker: HE DOES

Action Jackson
11-11-2004, 01:07 AM
I love that group for Gaston, as he will be able to win a set in that group.

Deboogle!.
11-11-2004, 01:19 AM
I think that because almost none of these players have played very much lately that it's IMPOSSIBLE to say what's going to happen - the only person who we really know is in good form is Marat - but he's also pissed that it's outdoors and he's played so much tennis lately he could be tired.... so who knows! Should be fun!

Jorge
11-11-2004, 01:23 AM
My picks:
from Red Group: Roger and Lleyton (although I trust in Carles)
from Blue Group: Andy and Marat (Henman could upset either Marat or Andy though)

Neely
11-11-2004, 01:33 AM
thanks for posting it, Tangerine! :kiss: I hope there are good matches!

But exchange Gaudio and Henman and it would be even more fun :yeah:
(and would seem to be easier for Andy ;) :p :angel: )

drf716
11-11-2004, 01:49 AM
go marat! ill put in the roof for you if i could

Chloe le Bopper
11-11-2004, 02:17 AM
Thanks Tangy!!

Here are my predictions (bound to be 90% wrong ;) ):
Wooden spoons to Gaudio and Coria


I assume that you mean that both will lose all their matches. They can't both be Wooden Spoons though, because only one person can win the Wooden Spoon ;)

Deboogle!.
11-11-2004, 02:22 AM
thanks for posting it, Tangerine! :kiss: I hope there are good matches!

But exchange Gaudio and Henman and it would be even more fun :yeah:
(and would seem to be easier for Andy ;) :p :angel: )

Yeah ;) :angel: but oh well, it's time for Andy to step up and beat him anyway, after having a match point in two of their previous matches that he lost :o

Not to be the bearer of bad news.... but someone might wanna pre-emptively bump the "Rain Haters Thread" now just so we have it handy for next week. http://www.w3.weather.com/outlook/travel/local/77042

bad gambler
11-11-2004, 02:25 AM
looks like the grouping are really even which will only create more interest

given moya hasn't played much of late, hewitt and federer look like specials to advance...can't really go past roddick and safin in the other group

which will mean top4 in ATP race will be in semis!! the way it should be!

Fedex
11-11-2004, 02:29 AM
thanks for posting it, Tangerine! :kiss: I hope there are good matches!

But exchange Gaudio and Henman and it would be even more fun :yeah:
(and would seem to be easier for Andy ;) :p :angel: )
Dont underestimate Gaston, though. Although he would almost certainly lose the match, he could give Roddick a good lesson on how to hit a backhand.

Auscon
11-11-2004, 02:34 AM
Ok....Lleytons last chance to salvage something out of his 2004 h2h with Roger, not just to try and win, but to escape a bagel. I dont know anything about the injury, but injury or not he's still the biggest hurdle by far. Moya will be really tough aswell, but I doubt Gaudio will trouble Lleyton on anything but clay. Lleytons the most experienced campaigner at TMC than all of the others, so hopefully he can use that to his advantage. Lleytons definitely in there with a chance to take the whole thing if he can get his form back to pre US Open final/Wimbledon QF, get the serve on track, and have a little bit of luck that Roger doesnt have one of his usual best perf of the tournament against Lleyton....

On the other side,

Marat should be able give Andy plenty of trouble, and maybe even Tim can do the same if he's really on his game (not sure of their h2h though). As for Coria, I dont think he'll fare too well, but I'll look forward to seeing how he might go against Safin (ive got tickets to their match at the Hopman Cup in jan)

BTW - FOR THE AUSSIES - will we be getting this on free-2-air tv?? I remember we got to see the 2000 tournament where Lleyton grabbed no.1 after beating Pat....dont remember them playing 2003 because Lleyton wasnt there, so I'm hoping that his presence will give us non-foxtelians a chance to watch

Action Jackson
11-11-2004, 02:36 AM
Gaston is an absolute no hoper who shouldn't bother turning up at all.

Is Gaston expected to win? No. That will work out better for him.

Yes, he is so outmatched against these opponents on this surface. I am actually wondering how many people actually watch tennis semi-closely at all.

Federer beat him 7-5 in the 3rd set in Montreal. Roger couldn't break down Gaston's backhand and put Roger on the defensive because of his backhand. Gaston's nerve failed him, but Roger was definitely pushed in that match and anyone who doesn't say so in all seriousness should get their eyes tested.

Hewitt, well he has the game to trouble him. Hewitt won their only match on hardcourts and that was 7-6, 6-7, 6-3 in Miami. Yes, he is such a loser and really doesn't have a chance at all against these guys.

No one is expecting him to win the tournament, but I just can't wait for all the excuses to come out if he wins a set.

Neely
11-11-2004, 02:39 AM
Dont underestimate Gaston, though. Although he would almost certainly lose the match, he could give Roddick a good lesson on how to hit a backhand.
Sure, Gaudio is a capable player and can play tennis otherwise he wouldn't have had the results that he had this season, but I think more that it would look like the following:
Granted, Gaston gives Andy a good lesson on how to hit a backhand, but then again Andy could give him a better lesson how to get out of the 2nd round on hardcourts, indoor events and Andy could also let him know that grass is a surface on that you can play tennis (Gaudio didn't even show up on grass over one year... :o )

So I think that this imaginary relationship of giving lessons to each other could turn out to be more fertile for Gaston ;) :angel:

Action Jackson
11-11-2004, 02:42 AM
So I think that this imaginary relationship of giving lessons to each other could turn out to be more fertile for Gaston ;) :angel:

Like he would get a tactical lesson from Roddick. He hasn't had a history of skipping Wimbledon and believe it or not he has actually won more than 2 matches on a hardcourt in a row.

Neely
11-11-2004, 02:44 AM
Is Gaston expected to win? No. That will work out better for him.
Exactly. He has nothing to lose.

croat123
11-11-2004, 02:45 AM
duckman has no chance. he probably won't pass his group if henman is healthy and there is no way in hell he is going to beat safin. so if he somehow makes it through the group phase, he'll get his ass kicked by federer

Billabong
11-11-2004, 02:48 AM
Interesting draw;)! I want a Safin-Federer match:p!

Neely
11-11-2004, 02:48 AM
Like he would get a tactical lesson from Roddick. He hasn't had a history of skipping Wimbledon and believe it or not he has actually won more than 2 matches on a hardcourt in a row.
Tactical or not, I don't mind. But Roddick has the game to succeed on the surfaces that Gaston struggles to have (more) success. And that's what I was saying, or in case that you didn't understand: that's what I intended to say.

Not more, not less.

Action Jackson
11-11-2004, 02:51 AM
Tactical or not, I don't mind. But Roddick has the game to succeed on the surfaces that Gaston struggles to have (more) success. And that's what I was saying, or in case that you didn't understand: that's what I intended to say.

Not more, not less.

You do know it's more complex and a lot harder to master clay than the other surfaces. It's easier to go from a slower to a faster surface, and how many examples would you like of successful players who have done that and not the other way around.

Gaudio is capable of doing better on hardcourts and indoors it's just a question of belief, and yes Gaudio fans do know that he has to improve his results on these surfaces.

Fedex
11-11-2004, 02:55 AM
Well said, Croat. I really hope Federer beats Hewitt again. I want him to end this season a perfect 5-0 against Hewitt, with some more bagels too. After that USO final, I just think Federer's game matches up too well against Hewitts, for Hewitt to have any chance at all of beating Federer, unless Federer just plays one of his shittiest matches ever. It makes you wonder who Hewitt was actually able to beat Federer once, let alone 7 times.

Action Jackson
11-11-2004, 02:57 AM
Fedex, it's called the mentally toughest player on tour and that is how he was able to beat Federer in a few of those matches, eg DC final and the Shanghai TMC. Roger had both of those for the taking, but the Potato even if you don't like him, he has to have respect for his fighting qualities.

Action Jackson
11-11-2004, 02:58 AM
duckman has no chance. he probably won't pass his group if henman is healthy and there is no way in hell he is going to beat safin. so if he somehow makes it through the group phase, he'll get his ass kicked by federer

For your sake and for my own amusement I hope you are right.

Neely
11-11-2004, 02:59 AM
Sure, everything right, George, what you say in #62. I didn't want to say Gaudio never will be better on non-claycourts. I referred to the past and said Gaudio so far has yet to do anything of notice when playing on non-clay and so this improvement has still to come and I believe it not until this time has arrived.

Billabong
11-11-2004, 03:06 AM
Like I said in Rogi's forum, Rogi may struggle in his first round match (maybe lose it), but he'll certainly get better and better with every match:)! He hasn't played since a month ago, no??

Fedex
11-11-2004, 03:17 AM
Fedex, it's called the mentally toughest player on tour and that is how he was able to beat Federer in a few of those matches, eg DC final and the Shanghai TMC. Roger had both of those for the taking, but the Potato even if you don't like him, he has to have respect for his fighting qualities.
Yes, but thankfully those mental demons Federer once had, have been diminished. Now Hewitt really doesn't have that mental edge over Federer, which is the only thing he had going for him in their matches, I think is the main reason why he is dominating Hewitt, the way he has this year. I hope to see a similar result here, but I believe it will be tougher. I dont care about bagels, and all of that other crap, it only matters if he wins the match.

Billabong
11-11-2004, 03:20 AM
Yes, but thankfully those mental demons Federer once had, have been diminished. Now Hewitt really doesn't have that mental edge over Federer, which is the only thing he had going for him in their matches, I think is the main reason why he is dominating Hewitt, the way he has this year. I hope to see a similar result here, but I believe it will be tougher. I dont care about bagels, and all of that other crap, it only matters if he wins the match.

The last time I saw Rogi have those mental demons, it was in US Open 2003 4th against Nalby.. what a terrible match for Rogi:sad:!

Fedex
11-11-2004, 03:24 AM
The last time I saw Rogi have those mental demons, it was in US Open 2003 4th against Nalby.. what a terrible match for Rogi:sad:!
No, the last time those demons appeared was in the DC tie with Hewitt. That was after the Open, if I'm not mistaken.

Billabong
11-11-2004, 03:27 AM
No, the last time those demons appeared was in the DC tie with Hewitt. That was after the Open, if I'm not mistaken.

oops you're right;)! So yeah, DC was pretty much the last time;)!

Domino
11-11-2004, 03:27 AM
Hmmm, this could be interesting. Previously, whenever the path looks tough for Roger, he pulls through, but the opposite sometimes happens, though I don't think that will happen. A telling match will be Roddick v Safin. Based on form, I would pick Safin, and if Safin were to win, that would put Roddick out of the semis, since I don't think he will beat Henman, considering their H2H. You never really know, but I can't see Hewitt or Moya beating Federer there; however, I have a very vivid memory of watching Federer v Gaudio in Montreal last year, and a telling match in that group will be Gaudio v Hewitt. If Gaudio wins, I think he can be in the semis, with a win over Moya because I still don't think he'll pull a win off Federer.

I would like any of the following to happen.

Federer - Henman/Roddick
Safin - Gaudio/Hewitt

Federer - Safin final

I think it would be cool to have Federer lay the smack down on Roddick in front of Jim again, but then again, I just don't like duck, so any loss at the expense of him would make me smile.

Fedex
11-11-2004, 03:38 AM
I certainly woulden't mind seeing Roger bitch slap Andy in front of Jim again, but for quality, I'd rather the final be Marat-Roger. Then, atleast, it wont be so one sided.

WyveN
11-11-2004, 03:55 AM
Federer there; however, I have a very vivid memory of watching Federer v Gaudio in Montreal last year

I very much doubt Gaudio will beat Federer, slightly more chances against Hewitt but imo he has a real shot at Moya.

azza
11-11-2004, 03:57 AM
Go Lleyton and Marat :woohoo:

WyveN
11-11-2004, 03:58 AM
You do know it's more complex and a lot harder to master clay than the other surfaces.


Thats very debatable, some great clay courters have lacked natural tennis talent.


It's easier to go from a slower to a faster surface, and how many examples would you like of successful players who have done that and not the other way around.


Not many slow court players mastered the fastest conditions either, that is grass or indoor carpet.

^Sue^
11-11-2004, 04:02 AM
c'mon Roger....:)

Chloe le Bopper
11-11-2004, 04:07 AM
Thats very debatable, some great clay courters have lacked natural tennis talent..

Erm, WTF? How on earth are you defining "great" in this sentence, and who exactly are you talking about? Which "great" claycourters have lacked natural talent?

Either I'm misunderstanding what you really meant here, or this is the most :retard: thing I've read this side of TD.

Experimentee
11-11-2004, 05:38 AM
I want Federer, Gaudio and Safin to qualify for the SF. Dont care much about the 2nd from the Blue Group, I'll just say Roddick.

lucashg
11-11-2004, 05:53 AM
I hope Federer and Moyá advance, but it most likely gonna be Hewitt, though you can't count Gaudio off. On the other group, since Coria can't make it, I'll just have to go with Safin and flip a coin for the other one. Meh!

Action Jackson
11-11-2004, 06:15 AM
Thats very debatable, some great clay courters have lacked natural tennis talent.

For every Muster, there is Borg, Wilander, Nastase. What I meant earlier it is more complex to play on clay, as it's just as much if not more so a tactical battle than a technical one, for example just hitting the big serve to get out of trouble doesn't work as often as on faster surface. It's not enough just to hit moonballs up the centre ( though it's fun to do so :) ) or hitting as hard as you can with no purpose, the different angles come into play to manoeuvre players out of position, using the spins, the drop shots, plus the patience and knowing when to hit the right shot are more prevalent when on clay.

Not many slow court players mastered the fastest conditions either, that is grass or indoor carpet.

I wouldn't know but Borg, Lendl, Wilander, Moya, Corretja, Ferrero, Guga and Muster have managed to win at least TMCs or Slams on their lesser surfaces which are faster ones, though the last five on that list haven't been a factor on grass.

This is why I have a lot of respect for guys like Stich, Edberg, Rafter and Federer who didn't shirk the task and played well on clay.

novanora
11-11-2004, 06:26 AM
i am glad roger gets in a not tough group, i still don't know how his injury recover now, but anyway, this group is much better to him as TMC is his first appearance without attending two TMS, and missing his local fav tourney. coz there are quite a few injured soldiers and patients in TMC party this year, the prediction and result will be much interesting! Gaudio get into semifinal? never say impossible.

Action Jackson
11-11-2004, 06:28 AM
Back to the topic at hand.

As for Roger's group it wouldn't bother me too much who came out of there as the semi finalists, even Hewitt wouldn't bother me too much.

The other group well it would have to be Safin and Henman as a preference, though I don't think Tim would like to see Lleyton in the semis as his opponent.

Daniel
11-11-2004, 07:16 AM
Thanks for that, not to bad draw for gaston actually!
He can trouble federer, and has done so before. I feel he can actually attack the federer backhand, one of the reasons he troubles federer. to be fair, federers backhand isnt as good as someone like gaudio.
Gaudio also has a winning record against hewitt, but all his wins have come on clay. so i feel gaston has a chance to beat hewitt.
Not to sure how he will match up against moya, but its a better matchup than if he was playing henman or roddick


i beleive Gaston is a good player but not to the extrem he will beat Roger.

Good luck Roger :D

RonE
11-11-2004, 07:22 AM
Any draw at the moment seems difficult for Roger as we just do not know how he will play :unsure: However, not having the likes of Safin and Henman in his group will do his cause good to hopefully play his way into form in his first matches- taking nothing away from Gaston, Carlos and Lleyton :)

Horatio Caine
11-11-2004, 10:39 AM
Never mind Andy being bitch-slapped by Federer in the semis - i want an Englishman to do the bitch-slapping earlier! :)

Then we'll see if Matress still likes him.

WyveN
11-11-2004, 11:46 AM
Erm, WTF? How on earth are you defining "great" in this sentence, and who exactly are you talking about? Which "great" claycourters have lacked natural talent?


Muster for one.


Either I'm misunderstanding what you really meant here, or this is the most :retard: thing I've read this side of TD.

Such nice comments.

Doris Loeffel
11-11-2004, 12:05 PM
Well at first sight Roger's draw looks easier than the one he had last year. But then none of us knows how fit he is as he hasn't played for quite a while. And none of us knows how bad his injury really was. The only thing I know is that Roger wouldn't be playing if the injury wasn't a 100% heald.
And yes it's still a though draw for him even though he escaped Safin and Henman for the first 3 matches - no reason to underestimate the other players and to take it easy. (Which I'm sure he won't) I just hope he doesn't have to play Lleyton first.

As for the other groop it's going to be interresting to see who will make it as Roddick, Safin and Henman hafe good chances to make it to the semis.

And from then on it's wide open even though I keep the fingers crossed for Roger that he can defend his title.

Looking forward to see some great tennis next week.

Gooo Roger gooo!!

WyveN
11-11-2004, 12:25 PM
I meant earlier it is more complex to play on clay, as it's just as much if not more so a tactical battle than a technical one, for example just hitting the big serve to get out of trouble doesn't work as often as on faster surface.


You said it is harder to master clay then the other surfaces. Hitting the big serve to get out of trouble sounds simple in theory but it is extremely difficult to execute and something 95% of players can't do, besides a big serve alone is never enough.



It's not enough just to hit moonballs up the centre ( though it's fun to do so :) ) or hitting as hard as you can with no purpose, the different angles come into play to manoeuvre players out of position, using the spins, the drop shots, plus the patience and knowing when to hit the right shot are more prevalent when on clay.


Fast reflexes, split second returns of serve, powerful winners from all parts of the court, using spins to get a player out of court, shoelace volleys, drop volleys are all more prevalent when a skillful player is on grass.

I will be the first to admit grass court tennis has deteriorated (thank god for Federer) lately but you only have to look at the likes of Edberg and Mcenroe at their best on grass to see how much actual skill is required.







This is why I have a lot of respect for guys like Stich, Edberg, Rafter and Federer who didn't shirk the task and played well on clay.

Also Sampras, Krajicek, Mcenroe, Becker, Agassi, Rosset off the top of my head.
All of them managed to a certain extent to adapt their games which were far more suited to the faster court game and achieve significant success on clay, this despite the clay court season being far shorter relative to the fast court season.

And yes this is off topic.

Lynne
11-11-2004, 01:48 PM
And yes this is off topic.

Lol.... :D :wavey:

The draw seems ok to me.... but I'm a little worried about Coria.. :angel:

liptea
11-11-2004, 02:42 PM
It's rather amusing that there was just recently a thread with people thinking that Gaudio was going to lose dismally and embarassingly at TMC, and now people are thinking that he's going to qualify.

I'm fairly certain that Moya is excellent against Hewitt. In 2002, when Hewitt was number one and Moya was struggling, Hewitt was beaten 4 out of 5 times. And this year, Hewitt has beaten Moya after an injury retirement and on grass, arguably his best surface.

And Moya has always beaten Gaudio on hardcourts.

I think Carlos and Federer have a good shot, injuries not being a factor.

Purple Rainbow
11-11-2004, 02:49 PM
Okay, this tournament comes really close now.
*Eagerly awaits Safin-Roddick and Hewitt-Federer matchups*

yanchr
11-11-2004, 03:08 PM
On seeing the draw, I unconsciously came to think that USTA has finally realized that they did it too obviously with the draw last year...

OK, let's focus on the draw this year;)

Roger-Gaudio match will be a lot of fun. I simply love watching the two play each other, esp the backhands. I don't write Gaudio off, plus we don't know at all how Roger is going to perform in Houston with his current health condition. I'd prefer anyone above Hewitt to come out of this group, but have to admit that he has a better chance than Gaudio and Moya, let's assume Roger is fully fit.

As for the other group, I can't think of anyone else than Safin and Roddick to qualify. Roddick will have more motivation to show up in his homeland, so should be no problem against Henman despite their HtoH. And let's first hope Safin remains what he was in Paris and Madrid, at least close to.

I'd be more than happy to see a Roger-Safin final, with both in full health and full form.

RPH
11-11-2004, 03:31 PM
Hopefully Federer, Hewitt, Safin and Henman come through :)

liptea
11-11-2004, 03:41 PM
Okay, this tournament comes really close now.
*Eagerly awaits Safin-Roddick and Hewitt-Federer matchups*

Why oh why are we STILL awaiting Hewitt-Federer matchups? I'm rather sick of them, after all the straight-set-at-least-one-bagel matches we've seen this year. :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Sjengster
11-11-2004, 03:55 PM
It's rather amusing that there was just recently a thread with people thinking that Gaudio was going to lose dismally and embarassingly at TMC, and now people are thinking that he's going to qualify.

I'm fairly certain that Moya is excellent against Hewitt. In 2002, when Hewitt was number one and Moya was struggling, Hewitt was beaten 4 out of 5 times. And this year, Hewitt has beaten Moya after an injury retirement and on grass, arguably his best surface.

And Moya has always beaten Gaudio on hardcourts.

I think Carlos and Federer have a good shot, injuries not being a factor.

Moya and Gaudio have only played once on hardcourts, it was on indoor hard in Madrid, and Gaudio served for the match only to lose in three. More to the point, this will be their first ever meeting outside Spain and the head-to-head is still 2-2. Doesn't that suggest Gaudio has an excellent chance of beating him here?

I'm looking forward to the match-ups that we haven't seen for a long time, ones like Federer v Moya (this is their first match on outdoor hard and I only saw the most recent encounter in Hamburg) and Henman v Safin (the last time they played, a couple of years ago in IW, Henman won with excellent strategical use of the slice backhand).

TheBoiledEgg
11-11-2004, 04:11 PM
we still dont know who plays 1st.

and who plays the night match as there is no Baldy this yr :tape:

come on, put Moya vs Gaudio on at night :tape:

joeb_uk
11-11-2004, 04:16 PM
could we see surprise winners/runners up like gaudio, and henman?

jtipson
11-11-2004, 04:24 PM
we still dont know who plays 1st.

and who plays the night match as there is no Baldy this yr :tape:

come on, put Moya vs Gaudio on at night :tape:


Don't they take the first and fourth in each group, and the second and third, for the initial matches? I'm not sure whether this is the rule, but that's how it worked last year. Maybe it's just random.

I expect the day/night scheduling depends on how big a draw the players are; I'd say Roddick/Henman has to be an evening match.

Fedex
11-11-2004, 04:50 PM
Fast reflexes, split second returns of serve, powerful winners from all parts of the court, using spins to get a player out of court, shoelace volleys, drop volleys are all more prevalent when a skillful player is on grass.

I will be the first to admit grass court tennis has deteriorated (thank god for Federer) lately but you only have to look at the likes of Edberg and Mcenroe at their best on grass to see how much actual skill is required.








Yes, I would usually agree with you there, Wyvern. But grass tennis is not near the same then when Edberg and McEnroe played, as it is now. Back then, it required a lot more skill, today if you have a huge serve, that alone will be enough to win a few rounds at Wimbledon, today. Only Federer plays grass court tennis, the old skillfull artistic way, so he is not the entire population, on how grass tennis is played today. Overall, it takes more skill and variety to succeed today on clay, than it does on grass.

Horatio Caine
11-11-2004, 04:59 PM
could we see surprise winners/runners up like gaudio, and henman?

I stand by what i said in a previous post...I could see a Henman/Roddick final. If Gaudio gets to the semis i couldn't see him beating either of those two. More likely is that Henman beats Federer and Roddick beats Hewitt in the semis, but i'm not sure how that would work out.

People are quick to rule Coria and Henman out of their group which is very unwise. Henman has a great chance against all 3 and has had good wins against all 3. Coria may shock a few people because he is extremely underrated but i admit...it is unlikely. I really don't think you can call the group between Henman, Roddick and Safin. If you ask me, i think the player most likely to lose out is Safin. Henman likes playing Roddick's game for a start and all he needs is Safin to have an off-day which, lets face it, is long overdue.

I can't remember who it was who mentioned Moya but yes, we shouldn't forget him either. He has troubled Hewitt a lot in the past and Hewitt isn't playing his best at the moment. A well-rested and prepared Careless could win, but as his name suggests, he is probably going to lose.

My predictions, no matter how ludicrous you may think they are, are as follows: -

1. Henman
2. Roddick
3. Safin
4. Coria

1. Hewitt
2. Federer
3. Gaudio
4. Moya.

Fedex
11-11-2004, 05:02 PM
Well, we'll see. I know one thing. If Henman and Federer, do play, I dont forsee a Henman victory at all. This is not indoors afterall, where 5 of his 6 wins against Federer have been.

TheBoiledEgg
11-11-2004, 05:04 PM
I expect the day/night scheduling depends on how big a draw the players are; I'd say Roddick/Henman has to be an evening match.


All of ducks matches will be night matches :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
even if he played a slug, he'd be on at night.

Horatio Caine
11-11-2004, 05:05 PM
Well, we'll see. I know one thing. If Henman and Federer, do play, I dont forsee a Henman victory at all. This is not indoors afterall, where 5 of his 6 wins against Federer have been.

Yeah you're right there but Roger has not played in a while and is bound to be rusty. Tim is a player who has given him serious problems so he might be both mentally and physically weaker than usual, therefore giving Tim the chance he needs to win. Remember, no one is guaranteed 100% to win any match, particularly this time because the physical state of some of the players is somewhat questionable. Gaston might beat Federer....Coria might beat Henman - all this wouldn't surprise me at all. :)

Fedex
11-11-2004, 05:08 PM
Gaston beating Federer, wouldn't suprise me all that much( I've seen their previous matches, to know that Gaston has given Federer quite a bit of trouble in the past). Henman losing to Coria would suprise me, or Coria winning a match at all.

TheBoiledEgg
11-11-2004, 05:14 PM
anyone else think this is why Coria is playing Houston ??

is Coria only playing to get his own back on Mattress Mac and his treatment he dished out ???
not to mention if he plays, that means no Andre and a more pissed off Mattress Mac :haha:

joeb_uk
11-11-2004, 05:19 PM
even better if he could beat the american?

Horatio Caine
11-11-2004, 05:20 PM
anyone else think this is why Coria is playing Houston ??

is Coria only playing to get his own back on Mattress Mac and his treatment he dished out ???
not to mention if he plays, that means no Andre and a more pissed off Mattress Mac :haha:

So long as he plays...I couldn't care less!!! I do not want his place to be taken by Baldy or Canas now! :)

jtipson
11-11-2004, 05:33 PM
anyone else think this is why Coria is playing Houston ??

is Coria only playing to get his own back on Mattress Mac and his treatment he dished out ???
not to mention if he plays, that means no Andre and a more pissed off Mattress Mac :haha:

Ah! That's probably why he didn't convert either of his match points in the Roland Garros final then. Because if he had, Andre would be playing the TMC. ;)

Seriously, apart from pride and dosh, I can't think why he would play. And it might actually hurt his pride badly if he gets thrashed. So that leaves $$$.

Have to agree with jez, don't want Andre (or worse still, Tim's nightmare Canas) stepping into the blue group now and spoiling the draw. But I'm still annoyed with Coria for insisting on playing, even though he admitted he was at 60% and won't win.

TheBoiledEgg
11-11-2004, 05:40 PM
Coria most likely still withdraws after one match

now who gets lucky to play Coria 1st ???

knowing Marat, he'd find a way to OAF against Coria sitting by the Umpire's chair :o

Horatio Caine
11-11-2004, 06:32 PM
Coria most likely still withdraws after one match

If he does that then I'll dislike him even more. Henman getting revenge will be a sweet thing....:devil:

Fedex
11-11-2004, 06:36 PM
If he does that then I'll dislike him even more. Henman getting revenge will be a sweet thing....:devil:
As long as Henman doesn't have a complete melt down, like last time. :o

Rogiman
11-11-2004, 06:45 PM
Coria, Moya and Gaudio are all top contenders to pull off a Ferrero this year.
I'll be holding my breath to see who will be this year's dumbass! :smash:

sigmagirl91
11-11-2004, 06:48 PM
Coria most likely still withdraws after one match


He will retire after the first three games in his match, then he'll withdraw.

MajorcanBoy89
11-11-2004, 06:51 PM
AMUNT MOYÀ!

Horatio Caine
11-11-2004, 06:56 PM
Guys - what will happen if a player retires in the 1st set? What I mean is, if two players are tied after the RR at 2 wins 1 loss and 1 of those players has a win when Coria retires at 3/0 1st set, will that mean he loses out when it goes down to set and game differences?

TheBoiledEgg
11-11-2004, 07:00 PM
Guys - what will happen if a player retires in the 1st set? What I mean is, if two players are tied after the RR at 2 wins 1 loss and 1 of those players has a win when Coria retires at 3/0 1st set, will that mean he loses out when it goes down to set and game differences?

if that happens the other player is deemed to have won the remaining games left.
so a 3-0 rtd would be deemed 6-0 6-0 in terms of sets/games won/lost

Horatio Caine
11-11-2004, 07:04 PM
if that happens the other player is deemed to have won the remaining games left.
so a 3-0 rtd would be deemed 6-0 6-0 in terms of sets/games won/lost

Thanks :yeah:

So effectively, if that happens to a player who is tied with another player, then then that player with the walkover will go through to the semis - talk about luck!

Fedex
11-11-2004, 07:10 PM
Thanks for that, TBE. :) I was wondering, myself.

WyveN
11-11-2004, 10:17 PM
Seriously, apart from pride and dosh, I can't think why he would play. And it might actually hurt his pride badly if he gets thrashed. So that leaves $$$.

Have to agree with jez, don't want Andre (or worse still, Tim's nightmare Canas) stepping into the blue group now and spoiling the draw. But I'm still annoyed with Coria for insisting on playing, even though he admitted he was at 60% and won't win.

Maybe because it is a prestigious event, he has qualified and deserves his place there just as much as anyone, injured or not. It is hard to qualify for these events and he may never get a chance again (never know what might happen) so why throw away a opportunity.

tangerine_dream
11-11-2004, 10:21 PM
Times have been announced :banana:

Monday, November 15

Starting at 1 p.m.
(1)R Federer (SUI) vs (8)G Gaudio (ARG)

Starting at 7 p.m.
(3)L Hewitt (AUS) vs (5)C Moya (ESP)

Tuesday, November 16

Starting at 1 p.m.
(4)M Safin (RUS) vs (6)G Coria (ARG)

Starting at 7 p.m.
(2)A Roddick (USA) vs (7)T Henman (GBR)

=====

Good luck Roger, Lleyton, and Andy! :bounce:

athie
11-11-2004, 10:25 PM
Thanks TG.
I'm over in Seville(a) all next week, anyone know what TV channel it's scheduled for over there please?

WyveN
11-11-2004, 10:47 PM
Overall, it takes more skill and variety to succeed today on clay, than it does on grass.

Let's not pretend the clay game is at its highest quality of all time either, it may be in terms of depth (lots of really good players) but at the very top Coria has dominated clay for 12 months and I have seen better clay court players over the past 10 years let alone the likes of Borg, Lendl and Wilander.

naiwen
11-11-2004, 11:57 PM
Times have been announced :banana:

Monday, November 15

Starting at 1 p.m.
(1)R Federer (SUI) vs (8)G Gaudio (ARG)

Starting at 7 p.m.
(3)L Hewitt (AUS) vs (5)C Moya (ESP)

Good luck Roger, Lleyton, and Andy! :bounce:

We don't have live coverage on Monday. No idea what they're gonna show on Monday midnight.

Billabong
11-12-2004, 12:30 AM
I certainly woulden't mind seeing Roger bitch slap Andy in front of Jim again, but for quality, I'd rather the final be Marat-Roger. Then, atleast, it wont be so one sided.

yep:)!

PennyThePenguin
11-12-2004, 01:09 AM
we're supposed to get ALL the matches. they didn't say live or delayed... what's the odds of them showing everything live? hmmmm... i wonder.

TheBoiledEgg
11-12-2004, 02:54 AM
great, Marat is the one who gets to play Coria 1st :)

Carlos vs the Potato
time to rekindle the old peeling magic :)

Duck vs Hen :o
which one will keep their head on ???

Action Jackson
11-12-2004, 04:15 AM
All of ducks matches will be night matches :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
even if he played a slug, he'd be on at night.

I would still cheer for the slug, but in the interest of fairness Roddick should have a day match, we know that won't be happening.

basil333
11-12-2004, 04:18 AM
I think this year's coverage will be very "interesting"
I will also find that patriotic bone in my body that has been lost for years and years and support Timothy Tuesday night :)

basil333
11-12-2004, 04:22 AM
I would LOVE a Marat - Roger final....

and for Marat to win... I can imagine the first line of his acceptance speech.... :devil:

FryslanBoppe
11-14-2004, 11:32 AM
I would still cheer for the slug, but in the interest of fairness Roddick should have a day match, we know that won't be happening.

:)

Leo
11-14-2004, 06:30 PM
Federer and Hewitt out of the first group and Roddick and Safin out of the second. What a risky prediction, huh? :D

tangerine_dream
11-14-2004, 06:39 PM
I would still cheer for the slug, but in the interest of fairness Roddick should have a day match, we know that won't be happening.
===
:)

Yet another lie because we all know that Roddick did have day matches last year at TMC.

And the obsessive paranoia over Roddick/Mattress Mac/Houston continues. :yawn:

Golfnduck
11-14-2004, 08:34 PM
That is true Tangy. He had a day match against Rainer, then a night match against Coria. He doesn't get all night matches. People obsessing over our little duckie again :rolleyes:

Vladimir Poutine
11-15-2004, 02:13 AM
I would still cheer for the slug, but in the interest of fairness Roddick should have a day match, we know that won't be happening.

Hahaha, very droll. We know that won't be happening as much as Jim would like to happen that Andy has all night matches, but they do have to share the load around, and from that group it looks like the Coria match will be the day one.