Andy Murray Biggest Choker In Top 5 History? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Andy Murray Biggest Choker In Top 5 History?

Busterovic
06-08-2012, 12:04 PM
I'm going to preface this by saying that after Federer, Murray is my second favorite player on tour but unlike a lot of people I have the ability to view sports from a pretty neutral perspective.

At first this is going to sound like a pretty preposterous statement since Murray has made numerous GS finals and SF appearances but I think thats because he is incredibly talented and his work ethic is second to none on tour. He puts in the hours, he has the physical tools, and he's been given a lot of help from the London Lawn and Tennis Association

But really, I can't think of a bigger choker than this guy. Theres some guys that have "choked" away some big chances. David Nalbandian comes to mind, Tommy Haas, definitely Nikolay Davydenko amongst guys that have reached the prestigious honor being ranked in the top 5 of the world for atleast one week of their lives.

With that being said, theres no question that Murray lacks the "clutch gene". In fact other than the beating he's taken at RG where he was never really in the match almost every single GS exit that Murray has had has been because he falls apart and its all between the ears.

Moozza
06-08-2012, 12:21 PM
In GS finals that is maybe true, but look at the semi against Djokovic at the AO this year. He was a set and a break down, managed to get back into it and again in the 5th set he was 5-2 and got it back to 5 all. In the past he maybe would have fallen apart in that match but this time he never.

Busterovic
06-08-2012, 12:33 PM
In GS finals that is maybe true, but look at the semi against Djokovic at the AO this year. He was a set and a break down, managed to get back into it and again in the 5th set he was 5-2 and got it back to 5 all. In the past he maybe would have fallen apart in that match but this time he never.

Yeah I said with the exception of that match mate but no question he choked badly against Ferrer.

Yes Ferrer is the better player on the surface and in sparkling form whereas Murray hasn't been great the last few months but still, the manner of how he goes about losing is antonishing.

Last year at Flushing Meadows he was literally choking away a potential victory against Nadal on a surface he should own Nadal on. Instead, he gets blasted away in 4 sets that were not even close.

A few months later, on a similar surface in Tokyo, he loses the first set then goes on to win 12 of the next 14 games including bagelling Nadal in the final set en route to the title.

In Grand Slams, its hard to find anyone who has choked more than Murray.

Li Ching Yuen
06-08-2012, 12:42 PM
Beware, this is a post from 2008.

born_on_clay
06-08-2012, 12:45 PM
He is the biggest mug in tennis history for sure

Gagsquet
06-08-2012, 12:48 PM
He just want to become the GSOAT. And he is going to do it :bowdown:

Iván
06-08-2012, 12:57 PM
he will win a slam, i am certain.

his game has too much variety and class, lendl will get him there mentally.

GSMnadal
06-08-2012, 12:58 PM
I'm beginning to believe this 'has the ability, doesn't have the mental strength' theory less and less.

Other guys don't show their true colors in masters, so he can win them. In slams they step it up, and he's not good enough :shrug:

TigerTim
06-08-2012, 01:00 PM
There are plenty of bigger chokers. Tim henman for example. Murray has lost to a 10GS winner a 5GS winner and a 16GS winner at many of his majors. No shame to lose to them.

Fireballer
06-08-2012, 01:10 PM
he is not only a choker he is not good enough

emotion
06-08-2012, 01:23 PM
Ferrer has been top 5. And yeah, plenty worse.

Tennis-Life
06-08-2012, 01:31 PM
Ferrer is biggest choker IMO

Leo
06-08-2012, 03:02 PM
I don't think that's an accurate statement. I don't think he always performs his best at Slams, but overall I think he is not at the same level as Fed/Nadal/Djok. At his very best he can challenge them in BO5, especially Djokovic given that he matches up better against him than the other two when at their best, but it is hard for him to sustain the type of tennis required over amount of time. When in the zone, his offensive tennis is incredible and very penetrating, but it's hard for him to get there and stay there.

Busterovic
06-08-2012, 03:09 PM
Ferrer has been top 5. And yeah, plenty worse.

Yes, not to be short sighted but I have to agree with you, he's up there.

He's choked a ton

dav abu
06-08-2012, 03:11 PM
Definitely not a choker. If anything he is playing at his level or in my opinion above it. A couple of masters win every season have kept him at number 4 and by virtue of this ranking he makes it to the last four where he is invariably knocked out. He is not a great player, he is a very good one who might win a Slam if something happens to the top 3 (injury etc).

mooncreek
06-08-2012, 03:12 PM
I'm going to preface this by saying that after Federer, Murray is my second favorite player on tour but unlike a lot of people I have the ability to view sports from a pretty neutral perspective.

At first this is going to sound like a pretty preposterous statement since Murray has made numerous GS finals and SF appearances but I think thats because he is incredibly talented and his work ethic is second to none on tour. He puts in the hours, he has the physical tools, and he's been given a lot of help from the London Lawn and Tennis Association

But really, I can't think of a bigger choker than this guy. Theres some guys that have "choked" away some big chances. David Nalbandian comes to mind, Tommy Haas, definitely Nikolay Davydenko amongst guys that have reached the prestigious honor being ranked in the top 5 of the world for atleast one week of their lives.

With that being said, theres no question that Murray lacks the "clutch gene". In fact other than the beating he's taken at RG where he was never really in the match almost every single GS exit that Murray has had has been because he falls apart and its all between the ears.
I would definitely call Nalbandian the biggest choker in Top 5 history.

Speaking as a fellow Murray fan, I don't think Murray is as good as the other 3. He doesn't have the mental strength that they have. That's not choking - that's having issue keeping focus in a best of 5 match. It's as simple as that.

out_grinder
06-08-2012, 03:16 PM
He's the most mentally gigantic player to have ever played the game considering his over-achievements thus far despite possessing a Wozniakwanska pushing game.

Literally thousands of players with far greater talent than him have achieved far less.

TigerTim
06-08-2012, 06:36 PM
Coria was a horrible choker

Drugs Ruin Lives
06-08-2012, 06:38 PM
No, he's just not a very good player.

Vida
06-08-2012, 06:41 PM
:facepalm:

unjust treatment of andy murray pains me.

TigerTim
06-08-2012, 06:42 PM
No, he's just not a very good player.

And Gaston Gaudio was so much better? He had 2 match points. He lost in straights to Veverrk and yet could take Nadal to 5! :facepalm:

Mark Lenders
06-08-2012, 06:44 PM
No. He's one of the mentally toughest players on tour.

Which is why he's getting such good results with a WTA serve, a weak forehand (for top players standards) and general lack of power. I had never seen a player with such glaring holes in such key areas of their game achieve so much, he's doing far more than what could be reasonably expected.

Vida
06-08-2012, 06:46 PM
I would definitely call Nalbandian the biggest choker in Top 5 history.

Speaking as a fellow Murray fan, I don't think Murray is as good as the other 3. He doesn't have the mental strength that they have. That's not choking - that's having issue keeping focus in a best of 5 match. It's as simple as that.

a classic confusion here. it is not a lack of focus but rather a lack of margin due to lack of technique.

TigerTim
06-08-2012, 06:46 PM
No. He's one of the mentally toughest players on tour.

Which is why he's getting such good results with a WTA serve, a weak forehand (for top players standards) and general lack of power. I had never seen a player with such glaring holes in such key areas of their game achieve so much, he's doing far more than what could be reasonably expected.

So mentally tough that as soon as he had MPs he choked like a fish?

Mark Lenders
06-08-2012, 06:48 PM
So mentally tough that as soon as he had MPs he choked like a fish?

What match/tournament are you referring to?

xdrewitdajx
06-08-2012, 06:57 PM
ITT: someone saying Andy Murray is not a very good player.

nothingtodohere.jpg

TBkeeper
06-08-2012, 06:57 PM
As a whole Nikolay Davydenko is the biggest choker of all

tektonac
06-08-2012, 06:59 PM
andy is a very good player but a bit delicate/brittle. he needs to toughen up mentally.

LastRocket
06-08-2012, 07:00 PM
Murray is not a choker. He is an an overachiever and lacks weapons to win a slam.

TigerTim
06-08-2012, 07:02 PM
What match/tournament are you referring to?

French Open 2004. Not to mention being 3-0 up and with game point vs Nadal in the 5th set of the 2005 Rome epic. This guy choked away his career.

Mark Lenders
06-08-2012, 07:07 PM
French Open 2004. Not to mention being 3-0 up and with game point vs Nadal in the 5th set of the 2005 Rome epic. This guy choked away his career.

My post was about Murray, not Coria. Why would I even mention Coria in this thread?

Coria is a choker, Murray is not; he's an overachiever.

Paylu2007
06-08-2012, 07:07 PM
Fed wins it :D

TigerTim
06-08-2012, 07:09 PM
My post was about Murray, not Coria. Why would I even mention Coria in this thread?

Coria is a choker, Murray is not; he's an overachiever.

:lol: sorry, this as been a horrific misunderstanding. I've done this alot to day :o. I think I'm going to go to bed now, maybe my brain will work tomorrow :)

Leo
06-08-2012, 07:10 PM
a classic confusion here. it is not a lack of focus but rather a lack of margin due to lack of technique.

I think it's a little bit of both. A bit of a lack of focus (relative to the Top Three) and, I wouldn't say "lack of technique," but technique perhaps better suited to a different era. He doesn't generate the same kind of topspin as the Top Three can and his flat-hitting ways are slightly reminiscent of the guys from the 90s.

Swiss_Bagels17
06-08-2012, 07:50 PM
Andy is not a choker.. He has just peaked (In My Opinon)

He was at his best in 2008 when he got to the US Open final but was too young and tired to take on GOAT Federer in the final. He got to 2 Australian Open finals were he was destroyed despite playing well in some patches in the tournament. He has great variety in his game but no weapons to scare the elite opponents if anything he has been found out and until he changes tact he will always be in the shadows.

bjurra
06-08-2012, 08:06 PM
Andy is not a choker, he is just not quite good enough to challenge the top 3 in Slams.

Mateya
06-08-2012, 08:36 PM
You are clueless :facepalm:

Murray is one of the toughest players out there and has a lot of mental strength. Rarely loses matches where he's close to winning. And that's the definition of choke.
Yes, he sucks in GS finals, but you can't call him a choker just for that.

:wavey:

Fireballer
06-08-2012, 08:38 PM
You are clueless :facepalm:

Murray is one of the toughest players out there and has a lot of mental strength. Rarely loses matches where he's close to winning. And that's the definition of choke.
Yes, he sucks in GS finals, but you can't call him a choker just for that.

:wavey:

stop posting sweetheart

LaFuria
06-08-2012, 08:46 PM
Nalbandian, Coria. :banghead:

Backhand_Maestro
06-08-2012, 09:07 PM
You can deny Mints has been unlucky but choked massively against Novak and Roger in the finals

MaxPower
06-08-2012, 09:27 PM
My post was about Murray, not Coria. Why would I even mention Coria in this thread?

Coria is a choker, Murray is not; he's an overachiever.

Agree with this. Murray is an extremely solid player with a very high "low level" but also not as high "peak" as the top3 or even other current top10 players.

The sad fact is not many players on the tour got the talent and the offensive game to pick Murray apart. If the tour had more players who could play aggressive without turning into UE machines Murrays results would be less impressive. We saw how Ferrer bossed Murray around yesterday with his forehand and how Federer and Djokovic and Nadal have all used their forehand weapons to control passive Murray in big finals. Murray wouldn't win much if there was more commanding players out there who didn't spray errors.

Mentally Murray is strong. My concern is the players that chokes versus Murray.

Take last season. Troicki should have eliminated him in R4 in RG. Wasn't Haase up 2 sets in USO too? the real chokers choke vs Murray. Murray thrives on chokers because of his own mental strength. Sometimes you just know Murray will win a match even when he drops set 1/2 due to his ability to thrive on chokers. He doesn't choke that much himself. To choke you have to be in a leading position in the first place...In his GS finals he didn't take a set and in horrible recent losses like vs Anderson last year he was never close or in the match at all.

xdrewitdajx
06-08-2012, 10:04 PM
Troicki was almost in the SF of a slam...

forget Murray, let's stop and think about this for a bit

homogenius
06-08-2012, 10:46 PM
I'm going to preface this by saying that after Federer, Murray is my second favorite player on tour but unlike a lot of people I have the ability to view sports from a pretty neutral perspective.

At first this is going to sound like a pretty preposterous statement since Murray has made numerous GS finals and SF appearances but I think thats because he is incredibly talented and his work ethic is second to none on tour. He puts in the hours, he has the physical tools, and he's been given a lot of help from the London Lawn and Tennis Association

But really, I can't think of a bigger choker than this guy. Theres some guys that have "choked" away some big chances. David Nalbandian comes to mind, Tommy Haas, definitely Nikolay Davydenko amongst guys that have reached the prestigious honor being ranked in the top 5 of the world for atleast one week of their lives.

With that being said, theres no question that Murray lacks the "clutch gene". In fact other than the beating he's taken at RG where he was never really in the match almost every single GS exit that Murray has had has been because he falls apart and its all between the ears.

no most of them happened cause he still has weaknesses in his game

Hian-GOAT
06-08-2012, 10:58 PM
BIggest overachiever in Top 1000, for sure.

rocketassist
06-09-2012, 01:41 AM
Lack of mental strength against top 3 and lack of consistent finishing power on the forehand. Of course he's mentally weak in slam finals, certainly the Djokovic one where he was hitting the net non-stop like a Man City centre forward for the 2nd and 3rd sets.

Serve is okay albeit not the greatest, ROS, backhand, defence, speed, these attributes are slam-winning ones but the two above are not. Djoker's forehand has consistent finishing power, while mentally they're galaxies apart. Muzza's never saved an mp in a slam match and won, while the best player he's defeated from two sets down is probably Gasquet.

But yeah. Mental frailty and no consistent attacking FH are the reasons he hasn't won one.

Gagsquet
06-09-2012, 01:45 AM
He would lose a GS final even with Felix Felicis.

pray-for-palestine-and-israel
06-09-2012, 02:10 AM
he does choke

murray has more talent than rafole

Topspindoctor
06-09-2012, 03:15 AM
Pushray isn't a choker, his talent is too limited and his weapons are too few to succeed on the big stage.

Vida
06-09-2012, 12:09 PM
blaming it on mental frailty is a great error done to murray. he is to be marked by his unhappy fans as a mental failure, a useless choker, because he didnt fulfill their expectations. in a way it is a classic reflex. they want to believe he CAN do it (fanboy element) but he fails mentally (disappointed fanboy element).

but when you look at his achievements (which are not feeble at all), and who he played against, that conclusion is wrong.

TigerTim
06-09-2012, 12:13 PM
He would lose a GS final even with Felix Felicis.

http://i2.ytimg.com/vi/Elh-aIJEmAY/hqdefault.jpg

henke007
06-09-2012, 12:40 PM
Murray will fall