You really think Gaston will do a Berasategui ????--But Coria Will [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

You really think Gaston will do a Berasategui ????--But Coria Will

TheBoiledEgg
10-28-2004, 04:37 PM
For 1: its not indoors, not on Carpet, nor are the courts gonna be anything as fast as they were in Frankfurt.

Here's what happened in the 1994 Finals
lucky Alberto wasnt in the other group :tape:

saying that, put Gaston in that other group today ( i mean the KILLER GP) with the same guys, Gaston would likely to suffer the same fate, even though they've retired.


1994/Frankfurt, Germany -- 15–20 November 1994 -- Surface: Carpet
White Group: Boris Becker, Pete Sampras, Stefan Edberg, Goran Ivanisevic. Red Group: Andre Agassi, Sergi Bruguera, Michael Chang, Alberto Berasategui. Round Robin: Bruguera d. Chang 76(1) 75; Becker d. Ivanisevic 63 36 76(5); Agassi d. Berasategui 62 60; Chang d. Berasategui 61 60; Becker d. Sampras 75 75; Edberg d. Ivanisevic 63 64; Sampras d. Edberg 46 63 76(3); Agassi d. Chang 64 64; Bruguera d. Berasategui 63 62; Sampras d. Ivanisevic 63 64; Becker d. Edberg 67(3) 64 75; Agassi d. Bruguera 64 16 63.
Semifinals: Sampras d. Agassi 46 76(5) 63; Becker d. Bruguera 67(5) 64 61.
Final: Sampras d. Becker 46 63 75 64.
Prize Money: Sampras (4-1) $1,225,000; Becker (4-1) $665,000; Agassi (3-1) $345,000; Bruguera (2-2) $255,000; Chang (1-2) $165,000; Edberg (1-2) $165,000; Berasategui (0-3) $75,000; Ivanisevic (0-3) $75,000.

Action Jackson
10-28-2004, 04:42 PM
:haha: :haha: at doing a Berasategui.

If he was in the other group, he wouldn't have done better on that super fast surface. I mean it was faster than the grass at Wimbledon and that is stupid.

Gaston will win a set and at least 9 games in his matches.

Chloe le Bopper
10-28-2004, 04:43 PM
Everybody wrote Costa off in 2002 and he did himself proud, despite not making the semis. It was Marat who flopped all of his matches that year.

Frankly, that is reason enough for me not to write Gaudio off and assume he's going to be totally uncompetitive against the other top players.

Chloe le Bopper
10-28-2004, 04:44 PM
Gaudio might even do better than Coria, if Coria plays ;)

tennischick
10-28-2004, 04:46 PM
don't be hating on Gaston. he is a terrific, talented player. i hope he plays well in Houston -- i'm planning to be there to see him. ;)

Action Jackson
10-28-2004, 04:47 PM
becca, I am not totally writing him off at all and TBE was taking the piss out of these posters who will think he'll be that bad.

He has had good wins on hardcourts and has troubled all the players that will be there except Henman.

Chloe le Bopper
10-28-2004, 04:48 PM
becca, I am not totally writing him off at all and TBE was taking the piss out of these posters who will think he'll be that bad.

He has had good wins on hardcourts and has troubled all the players that will be there except Henman.
I know that nobody so far in this thread is writing him off, I'm just saying that I won't be either even though some people will make the mistake of doing so. TBE learned his lesson with Costa :devil:

Action Jackson
10-28-2004, 04:52 PM
I know that nobody so far in this thread is writing him off, I'm just saying that I won't be either even though some people will make the mistake of doing so. TBE learned his lesson with Costa :devil:

I don't give a crap about people's perceptions actually.

I mean if Gaudio can beat Agassi clearly on a hardcourt and cause Federer plenty of problems in Montreal, he knows Nalbandian, Safin and Moya. When Potato was number 1 he took a set off him in their only hardcourt match, so that should be some ammo that he is not as bad as Alberto in that tournament.

RPH
10-28-2004, 04:53 PM
If it was on clay Gaston would have a shot

It's on hard and with his results on hard currently he will struggle to win sets let alone matches

In a way it's a shame for Gaston cos he is a really good player on his day and his backhand is wonderful but I doubt he can do anything at Houston, although I hope he can show the crowd he's there for a good reason rather than a fluke

If Coria plays and Gaudio does better than him :) :D although Im hoping that Coria is has far away from Houston has possible when it starts ;)

Chloe le Bopper
10-28-2004, 04:57 PM
I don't give a crap about people's perceptions actually.

I mean if Gaudio can beat Agassi clearly on a hardcourt and cause Federer plenty of problems in Montreal, he knows Nalbandian, Safin and Moya. When Potato was number 1 he took a set off him in their only hardcourt match, so that should be some ammo that he is not as bad as Alberto in that tournament.
I'm a little confused. Are we a part of the same conversation here? Because we agree, yet you seem to be... not in agreement, even though you clearly are? I'm so very confused.

I probably just need sleep.

Action Jackson
10-28-2004, 05:01 PM
I'm a little confused. Are we a part of the same conversation here? Because we agree, yet you seem to be... not in agreement, even though you clearly are? I'm so very confused.

I probably just need sleep.

I was laughing at the thread Eggy created and no he won't be as bad as Alberto. It doesn't mean I think he is going to win the thing

Gaston has had good wins on hardcourt as I said with Agassi and troubled Federer and Potato. I mean he gets slapped by Henman, but we don't know the make up of the groups. I agree with Sjengster in the way, he'll win a match and therefore be better than Berasategui.

TheBoiledEgg
10-28-2004, 05:05 PM
I know that nobody so far in this thread is writing him off, I'm just saying that I won't be either even though some people will make the mistake of doing so. TBE learned his lesson with Costa :devil:

I did ;) :angel:
saying that..... these days they dont make courts like they used to :devil:

Action Jackson
10-28-2004, 05:06 PM
Imagine if they played them on the old wood courts, then Gaston would be stuffed.

Chloe le Bopper
10-28-2004, 05:17 PM
I was laughing at the thread Eggy created and no he won't be as bad as Alberto. It doesn't mean I think he is going to win the thing

Gaston has had good wins on hardcourt as I said with Agassi and troubled Federer and Potato. I mean he gets slapped by Henman, but we don't know the make up of the groups. I agree with Sjengster in the way, he'll win a match and therefore be better than Berasategui.
But like.... I know all that. So ... huh?

Nevermind. I'm clearly incapable of understanding how to communicate at the moment. It happens.

alfonsojose
10-28-2004, 05:17 PM
He's not that bad , but he started too late (BTW, Javier Frana said Gaudio's father was ill). Costa had to fight against ToJo in 2002 for a chance and was at better shape thn Gaston now, who needs more matches. He already lost at Basel so his last chance is a good run in Paris. Anyway, Houston is slower but i think some wins are really important

Action Jackson
10-28-2004, 05:20 PM
He's not that bad , but he started too late (BTW, Javier Frana said Gaudio's father was ill).

Yes, I knew that but it was something I didn't want to talk about too much, plus he had some shoulder problems as well.

Basel and Paris are carpet and Houston isn't thankfully and that's in his favour. There are a few players at TMC who won't be in the best shape, but it's a lack of belief on the surface for Gaudio.

Marc Rosset is Tall
10-28-2004, 05:49 PM
He won't be like Berasategui and if he wins a match it will be like winning the tournament and I can laugh at the people who think he will be a big joke.

Funny reference btw Egg.

Roger-No.1
10-28-2004, 06:20 PM
Gaston will be better thanv Berasategui

Zetlandsk
10-29-2004, 09:18 AM
Only an absolute muppet will think Gaudio will do worse than Berasategui and there have been enough reasons given to why this would be the case.

PerezRoldan
11-04-2004, 07:06 AM
Haha, cheeky thread TBE.

I think Gaston will not be as bad as Berasategui, he would have to be special to perform like that and at least he has actually had some good wins on this surface, unlike Alberto in 1994.

Satanic Pasteur
11-04-2004, 10:37 AM
Lol Sampras, Becker, Edberg and Goran on very fast carpet was an unbelievable group :eek:
Put Agassi, Stich, Krajicek and Kafelnikov in the other group to have perfect Masters for fast court lovers :worship:

I think Gaudio can do well at Houston, I was in Bercy last three days and he didn't play bad at all against Lopez yesterday : it was funny to watch their respective backhands the shitty one against the amazing one :devil: but fortunately for him Feliciano has very good potential in all other areas of the game :)

Experimentee
11-04-2004, 12:35 PM
Gaston can do well on hardcourt. He's had some good wins before, apart from the ones already mentioned he also defeated Ferrero before the US Open last year, and Ferrero made the final there so he wasnt in bad form or anything. He also stretched a lot of top players on hardcourt so theres no reason why he cant win at least one match at Houston, depending on the draw. He needs to improve his recent form though.

WyveN
11-04-2004, 02:08 PM
Really does depend what group he is in, who knows what form Moya & Coria are in for example

Raquel
11-05-2004, 12:19 PM
Becker d. Ivanisevic 63 36 76(5); Becker d. Sampras 75 75; Sampras d. Edberg 46 63 76(3); Becker d. Edberg 67(3) 64 75; Agassi d. Bruguera 64 16 63.
Semifinals: Sampras d. Agassi 46 76(5) 63; Becker d. Bruguera 67(5) 64 61.
Final: Sampras d. Becker 46 63 75 64.

Looks like some great matches that year. Boris certainly had a few epics there. Congrats to Sergi for almost taking out Boris in the semis :eek:

Alberto :yeah: 1994 was pretty amazing for him and he did not really do very well after it. I can't believe this was all 10 years ago! :eek:

jtipson
11-05-2004, 12:25 PM
Really does depend what group he is in, who knows what form Moya & Coria are in for example

Very true. At least he won't have Henman, and he will have one of Moya and Coria, which would give him a reasonable chance. It's just depends which combination of Federer/Roddick/Hewitt/Safin will be in his group, I guess.

Marc Rosset is Tall
11-07-2004, 08:22 AM
If he wins a match that is good enough for me, but it would be hilarious if he made the final.

bad gambler
11-07-2004, 08:23 AM
can't see him winning a match..way too much class around him, but good luck to him

Marc Rosset is Tall
11-07-2004, 08:25 AM
can't see him winning a match..way too much class around him, but good luck to him

If he wins a match, don't worry I will remind you of that comment, but it will all be in fun of course.

bad gambler
11-07-2004, 08:27 AM
more than welcome to rub it in if it happens

Marc Rosset is Tall
11-07-2004, 08:29 AM
gambler, as I said all in fun, there are more serious issues in this world than this as you know.

bad gambler
11-07-2004, 08:31 AM
thanks for the reminder marc - and yes i know it is all in fun, its all good mate

BlackSilver
11-07-2004, 08:39 AM
I don't know how will be his performance. But if he believe in himself (a thing that he doesn't do, I believe) he could win more than one match :)

Chloe le Bopper
11-07-2004, 08:43 AM
Untrue! Gaudio's performance at the TMC trumps all other world events in importance!

Seriously though, there is a cute little video of him in Europsport from this past week where he went back to Phillippe Chatrier (sp?) for the first time since his victory.

Marc Rosset is Tall
11-07-2004, 08:49 AM
I don't know how will be his performance. But if he believe in himself (a thing that he doesn't do, I believe) he could win more than one match :)

Anyone who is a fan of Gaudio knows he has fanatical self-belief in his own abilities.

Becca, yeah that was the highlight of his trip to Paris, it wasn't Bercy.

Chloe le Bopper
11-07-2004, 08:56 AM
I was slightly dissapointed that he didn't pretend to make snow angels in the clay! That is what I would have done.

BlackSilver
11-07-2004, 08:57 AM
Anyone who is a fan of Gaudio knows he has fanatical self-belief in his own abilities.


Where he demonstrated this? I never seen this happens before (not that I saw many of his matches)

Marc Rosset is Tall
11-07-2004, 09:01 AM
Where he demonstrated this? I never seen this happens before (not that I saw many of his matches)

You don't know me very well obviously :) . I was being very sarcastic, but he won the one that counted, so anything else is a bonus.

Marc Rosset is Tall
11-07-2004, 09:02 AM
I was slightly dissapointed that he didn't pretend to make snow angels in the clay! That is what I would have done.

Unlike you Gaston probably didn't get enough practice in Temperley.

BlackSilver
11-07-2004, 09:52 AM
You don't know me very well obviously :) . I was being very sarcastic, but he won the one that counted, so anything else is a bonus.

I should have imagined this

Too illogical to be true :)

Marc Rosset is Tall
11-07-2004, 09:59 AM
I should have imagined this

Too illogical to be true :)

Hang around this board long enough and you will see what some posters try and pass off as fact.

Deejay
11-07-2004, 11:10 AM
Gaudio will do alot better than Coria will, thats for sure. But I dont expect him to even win a set to be quite ohnest...

Horatio Caine
11-07-2004, 11:14 AM
Gaudio will do alot better than Coria will, thats for sure. But I dont expect him to even win a set to be quite ohnest...

Well he's going to have the better draw though i think. He certainly avoids Henman who would have been licking his chops at the prospect of playing him.

Marc Rosset is Tall
11-07-2004, 11:23 AM
Gaudio will do alot better than Coria will, thats for sure. But I dont expect him to even win a set to be quite ohnest...

So are you going to judge by the amount of games that Gaudio and Coria win then are you, if you think that neither of them will win a set?

Fondueischguät
11-07-2004, 12:43 PM
Berasategui and Ivanisevic won the same amount of money, at least Goran won a set.

Gaston won't be as bad as Berasategui, if the surface was the same as what Alberto had to play on, then maybe.

It depends on the group he has got, and it seems some people like to overlook at some of Gaudio's performances on hardcourt considering he tied Federer up in knots, before choking, beat Agassi and Ferrero, has had good results against Moya and Coria, but no he cheated his way there, how stupid of me not to know this.

Wulfram
11-07-2004, 01:26 PM
Berasategui and Ivanisevic won the same amount of money, at least Goran won a set.

Gaston won't be as bad as Berasategui, if the surface was the same as what Alberto had to play on, then maybe.

It depends on the group he has got, and it seems some people like to overlook at some of Gaudio's performances on hardcourt considering he tied Federer up in knots, before choking, beat Agassi and Ferrero, has had good results against Moya and Coria, but no he cheated his way there, how stupid of me not to know this.

On hardcourt Gaudio is 5-7 on hardcourt this year, 31-43 over his career, and only in '02 had a winning record. I think scepticism as to his abilities on that surface are well justified.

Looking at his W-L record, he might even be better on carpet.

Though given all the players with doubtful fitness, his very well might not be the worst performance.

Fondueischguät
11-07-2004, 01:33 PM
On hardcourt Gaudio is 5-7 on hardcourt this year, 31-43 over his career, and only in '02 had a winning record. I think scepticism as to his abilities on that surface are well justified.

Looking at his W-L record, he might even be better on carpet.

Though given all the players with doubtful fitness, his very well might not be the worst performance.

So will he do a Berasategui then? Anyone with a slight clue would realise that Gaudio is far from the favourite and actually if you have read most of the posters here they have joked about his abilities on the surface.

He has had good wins on the surface, but he hasn't been consistent. No, that doesn't mean he is great on it and I am always sceptical, but yes even if he wins a match, there'll be some stupid theory as to how he won a match.

Wulfram
11-07-2004, 02:00 PM
So will he do a Berasategui then? Anyone with a slight clue would realise that Gaudio is far from the favourite and actually if you have read most of the posters here they have joked about his abilities on the surface.

He has had good wins on the surface, but he hasn't been consistent. No, that doesn't mean he is great on it and I am always sceptical, but yes even if he wins a match, there'll be some stupid theory as to how he won a match.

He's been the model of consistency on the surface - he's consistently lost more than he's won. The occasional good win doesn't change this.

I wouldn't be overly surprised if he did do something resembling a Barasetegui, though I wouldn't predict it of any uninjured player in the top 100.

Fondueischguät
11-07-2004, 02:06 PM
He's been the model of consistency on the surface - he's consistently lost more than he's won. The occasional good win doesn't change this.

So would you say the same thing if it was a guy who struggled on clay and had better results on faster surfaces. The reason is I ask this is to see whether you are a consistent or not.

I wouldn't be overly surprised if he did do something resembling a Barasetegui, though I wouldn't predict it of any uninjured player in the top 100.

Yes or no, will he or won't he? So if he wins a match will you whine that this particular player being injured? If so, they are fit enough to take the court, then they are fit enough to take the consequences.

Wulfram
11-07-2004, 02:46 PM
So would you say the same thing if it was a guy who struggled on clay and had better results on faster surfaces. The reason is I ask this is to see whether you are a consistent or not.

Yes. Tim Henman was similarly abyssmal on Clay at the start of his career, for example, and I'd put pretty much anyone as favourite against Roddick on that surface nowadays. Hopefully Guadio can similarly improve on Hard and Grass


Yes or no, will he or won't he? So if he wins a match will you whine that this particular player being injured? If so, they are fit enough to take the court, then they are fit enough to take the consequences.

No, he probably won't be as bad as Barasetegui, but I'd be surprised if he get's a set.

I will take into account the fitness of his opponents if appropriate. For example, it would not be appropriate to give Gaudio great credit for beating Coria if Coria's other results were 0-6 0-6 and 0-5 ret.

Your principle is true, but it applies to the loser not the winner. In the above case, Coria certainly would recieve full blame for his foolishness in competing when unfit.

Marc Rosset is Tall
11-08-2004, 04:40 AM
Yes. Tim Henman was similarly abyssmal on Clay at the start of his career, for example, and I'd put pretty much anyone as favourite against Roddick on that surface nowadays. Hopefully Guadio can similarly improve on Hard and Grass.

Why is there the need for Gaudio to improve on grass? There isn't an incentive for him to do so at all, it would be of more importance to improve indoors and on hardcourts.

I sincerely doubt whether you would scrutinise it the same way from reading some of your previous posts on a topic similar.

No, he probably won't be as bad as Barasetegui, but I'd be surprised if he get's a set.

I will take into account the fitness of his opponents if appropriate. For example, it would not be appropriate to give Gaudio great credit for beating Coria if Coria's other results were 0-6 0-6 and 0-5 ret.

Your principle is true, but it applies to the loser not the winner. In the above case, Coria certainly would recieve full blame for his foolishness in competing when unfit.

Half the players going there are injured or have suffered from injuries and that includes Gaudio as well, so it will be discredited anyway.

My feelings about Coria playing are very clear, then again when Gaudio beat Agassi and Ferrero on hardcourts was it a fluke? If you watched the matches, then you wouldn't think that.

Actually the injury principle goes both ways. Why? The player who takes the court and loses and is clearly injured then they take the consequences of he action, and if the player who wins then they are discredited whether they are playing well at the time or not, because of the status of the injured player.

Wulfram
11-08-2004, 08:39 AM
Why is there the need for Gaudio to improve on grass? There isn't an incentive for him to do so at all, it would be of more importance to improve indoors and on hardcourts.

Because a good player should be able to play on all surfaces. Particularly ones who are good enough to win Grand Slams.

Coria found it worthwhile to work on it, and my respect for him increased because of this.

I sincerely doubt whether you would scrutinise it the same way from reading some of your previous posts on a topic similar.

Ah yes, anyone who thinks that the surfaces are equal and that grass is equally as worthwhile as clay is obviously sufferring from massive bias.

Of course, no one's going to have Roddick play a tournament with the 7 best claycourters in the world, so his oft-mentioned deficiencies on the surface are unlikely to be highlighted in the same way - though playing Spain away on clay in Davis Cup is similar and I will be similarly surprised if he wins a set, though less so given the doubtful fitness of the top spanish players.

Half the players going there are injured or have suffered from injuries and that includes Gaudio as well, so it will be discredited anyway.

Well, frankly the whole tournament isn't as credible as normal. Basically only Safin doesn't have some question mark over his fitness. I wouldn't read too much into any of the results.

My feelings about Coria playing are very clear, then again when Gaudio beat Agassi and Ferrero on hardcourts was it a fluke? If you watched the matches, then you wouldn't think that.

A couple of victories aren't really relevant in face of the fact that Gaudio has only won about 2/5 matches he's played on the surface.

Actually the injury principle goes both ways. Why? The player who takes the court and loses and is clearly injured then they take the consequences of he action, and if the player who wins then they are discredited whether they are playing well at the time or not, because of the status of the injured player.

The winner is never discredited - they simply get a lesser increase in credit, just as you would get a lesser increase in credit for beating Arvind Parmar than for beating Roger Federer.

Action Jackson
11-09-2004, 04:58 AM
The winner is never discredited - they simply get a lesser increase in credit, just as you would get a lesser increase in credit for beating Arvind Parmar than for beating Roger Federer.

Obviously you weren't around here or saw the crap that went on after the French Open final this year then.

Marc Rosset is Tall
11-09-2004, 05:46 AM
Because a good player should be able to play on all surfaces. Particularly ones who are good enough to win Grand Slams.

Shouldn't that be the same for Roddick and others as well? Did Gaudio win a Slam? Yes, is he going to win Wimbledon? No. There should be a better distribution of surfaces, but the facts are the way the tournaments are structured it's more important to improve on hardcourts and indoors than on grass.

Ah yes, anyone who thinks that the surfaces are equal and that grass is equally as worthwhile as clay is obviously sufferring from massive bias.

You are the one who said that there wasn't a bias at all towards players who are better on clay while ignoring the fact that it doesn't go both ways.
This was borne out in are the Claycourters disrepected thread.

Yes, even the players who were better on clay and have had success on faster surfaces e.g Guga, Corretja, Rios, Moya, Ferrero, Wilander, Coria have and continually to be labelled as claycourters, yet players who do better on fastcourts are not treated exactly the same way for poorer results, except on very rare occasions.

Well, frankly the whole tournament isn't as credible as normal. Basically only Safin doesn't have some question mark over his fitness. I wouldn't read too much into any of the results.

Does that go for when Corretja won in 1998 and Guga won in 2000 as well, where they not credible TMS events then?

The winner is never discredited - they simply get a lesser increase in credit, just as you would get a lesser increase in credit for beating Arvind Parmar than for beating Roger Federer.

See 2004 French Open final result as an example of a winner being discredited.

Wulfram
11-09-2004, 10:21 AM
Shouldn't that be the same for Roddick and others as well?

Yes

Did Gaudio win a Slam? Yes, is he going to win Wimbledon? No. There should be a better distribution of surfaces, but the facts are the way the tournaments are structured it's more important to improve on hardcourts and indoors than on grass.

Hardcourts, yes. Grass has got a Grand Slam, indoors hasn't.

You are the one who said that there wasn't a bias at all towards players who are better on clay while ignoring the fact that it doesn't go both ways.
This was borne out in are the Claycourters disrepected thread.

Yes, even the players who were better on clay and have had success on faster surfaces e.g Guga, Corretja, Rios, Moya, Ferrero, Wilander, Coria have and continually to be labelled as claycourters, yet players who do better on fastcourts are not treated exactly the same way for poorer results, except on very rare occasions.

Henman was still being referred to as a grass court specialist after reaching a Roland Garros semifinal and winning 11 titles, none of which were on grass. People like simple lables, and stick to them even when they no longer really fit the facts.

Anyway, even if bias does exist in some places, it does not excuse the denigration of other surfaces which prompted my intervention into the thread I assume you are referring to.

Does that go for when Corretja won in 1998 and Guga won in 2000 as well, where they not credible TMS events then?

I am not sure what the circumstances were surrounding those events. I have no reason to believe they weren't credible

See 2004 French Open final result as an example of a winner being discredited.

Firstly, I can only speak for myself, and I give full credit for Gaudio's victory there. Coria was not injured before or during the match.

Secondly, I do not think anyone reasonable could think less of Gaudio after the final even if he had won through injury. Thus he would not lose credit, he simply would not gain the same amount as he otherwise would, or perhaps any

Marc Rosset is Tall
11-10-2004, 01:46 PM
Hardcourts, yes. Grass has got a Grand Slam, indoors hasn't.

I mean Wimbledon doesn't give a crap about these players, and therefore many of them don't or didn't bother improving their game for the surface. I am not saying I support that choice, they have to do as well as they can on all surfaces, for it to change, it would need a longer grasscourt season than what happens now.

Henman was still being referred to as a grass court specialist after reaching a Roland Garros semifinal and winning 11 titles, none of which were on grass. People like simple lables, and stick to them even when they no longer really fit the facts.

How can anyone be a grasscourt specialist, when they haven't won a title on that surface. Well we agree that many writers don't have a clue and stick to easy labels.

Anyway, even if bias does exist in some places, it does not excuse the denigration of other surfaces which prompted my intervention into the thread I assume you are referring to.

It's the snideness of the English language media, who don't understand or want to understand anything outside their circle. Yes, all those players I mentioned before have been or were disrepected because they were better on clay, then Henman gets lauded for one great finish at RG, where he only played 1 really good claycourt player. It's not the same the other way around.

I am not sure what the circumstances were surrounding those events. I have no reason to believe they weren't credible.

Of course it's not credible Corretja and Guga won the TMC and players better on clay aren't supposed to that, then the excuses came out afterwards, the whole tiredness one, etc, etc.

Firstly, I can only speak for myself, and I give full credit for Gaudio's victory there. Coria was not injured before or during the match.

You know the difference between injury and cramp.

Secondly, I do not think anyone reasonable could think less of Gaudio after the final even if he had won through injury. Thus he would not lose credit, he simply would not gain the same amount as he otherwise would, or perhaps any.

Take a look around you at some of the clowns who are still trying to discredit the win. The shoe is on the other foot, then it wouldn't the same thing, and the fact that there is always an element of luck in winning a Slam escapes them.

Wulfram
11-10-2004, 05:51 PM
I mean Wimbledon doesn't give a crap about these players, and therefore many of them don't or didn't bother improving their game for the surface. I am not saying I support that choice, they have to do as well as they can on all surfaces, for it to change, it would need a longer grasscourt season than what happens now.

If Wimbledon doesn't give a crap about these players, why did it give into their pressure and change its seeding system?

It's the snideness of the English language media, who don't understand or want to understand anything outside their circle. Yes, all those players I mentioned before have been or were disrepected because they were better on clay, then Henman gets lauded for one great finish at RG, where he only played 1 really good claycourt player. It's not the same the other way around.

There's bias against players who don't have english as a first language. That's different from a bias against claycourts.

I don't think people complained when French Open champion Courier won the US Open, for example, and I doubt they'll object if (British) Andrew Murray starts being successful off clay (rather, he'll probably have problems trying to convince people that he's good on clay and rather dislikes Wimbledon)

Also, if Henman had won the event on that draw, I'm pretty sure people would call it a fluke. After all, some people seem to regard Hewitt's Wimbledon as a fluke just because he got an easy draw, and he's won loads of tournaments on grass.

Of course it's not credible Corretja and Guga won the TMC and players better on clay aren't supposed to that, then the excuses came out afterwards, the whole tiredness one, etc, etc.

After a quick look back at the records, I really can't see any reason to doubt their credibility. They both beat Sampras, so they can't be said to have had easy draws and they both played full seasons so I can't see why they should be less tired than everyone else.

They also both had some decent indoor results going into the tournament, and have had plenty of good hardcourt results too, so with hindsight at least it doesn't look like too much of a shock really.

Take a look around you at some of the clowns who are still trying to discredit the win. The shoe is on the other foot, then it wouldn't the same thing, and the fact that there is always an element of luck in winning a Slam escapes them.

There are people who discredit the win. What they do not do is discredit him for winning. There's no one, except perhaps exceptionally bitter Coria fans, who rank him lower for winning than they would for ending up a losing finalist. They just don't rate him as highly as they would if he'd won without Coria cramping.

Action Jackson
11-11-2004, 09:33 AM
If Wimbledon doesn't give a crap about these players, why did it give into their pressure and change its seeding system?

How long did it take for that too happen and they still have 1900s attitude towards them.

There's bias against players who don't have english as a first language. That's different from a bias against claycourts.

Ok, how many of these people have English as their first language? Borg, Lendl, Wilander, Kuerten, Moya, Muster, Corretja, Ferrero and Coria? What do they have in common?

I don't think people complained when French Open champion Courier won the US Open, for example, and I doubt they'll object if (British) Andrew Murray starts being successful off clay (rather, he'll probably have problems trying to convince people that he's good on clay and rather dislikes Wimbledon)

Jim Courier was not a claycourt player primarily, he was groomed and at his best on hardcourts. He had 2 good years on clay, when the next generation where coming through, and he never on the US Open. Media double standards.

Also, if Henman had won the event on that draw, I'm pretty sure people would call it a fluke. After all, some people seem to regard Hewitt's Wimbledon as a fluke just because he got an easy draw, and he's won loads of tournaments on grass.

Henman didn't have the hardest draw, but he played well and fought hard and took advantage of the situation, no problem with that.

After a quick look back at the records, I really can't see any reason to doubt their credibility. They both beat Sampras, so they can't be said to have had easy draws and they both played full seasons so I can't see why they should be less tired than everyone else.

Anyone can be brilliant with hindsight and yes it was a shock, and yes they didn't get the kudos at all, and we know why that is.

There are people who discredit the win. What they do not do is discredit him for winning. There's no one, except perhaps exceptionally bitter Coria fans, who rank him lower for winning than they would for ending up a losing finalist. They just don't rate him as highly as they would if he'd won without Coria cramping.

They discredit him winning and all the crap that the Coria fans still go on with is quite funny in a sad way.

Horatio Caine
11-11-2004, 09:41 AM
Nope! :)

Action Jackson
11-11-2004, 09:43 AM
He won't do it and once he wins more than games in total than Berasategui, it will be a festive atmosphere.

WyveN
11-11-2004, 11:35 AM
I am sure Gaudio will justify his place in TMS, not that it matters as he deserves it even if he loses each set 6-0.

Jim Jones
11-11-2004, 12:19 PM
Berasategui may suck on a surface other than clay but remember, he made it to the quarter-finals of the Aussie Open and won 14 titles which is not a small achievement. I'm not even sure if Gaudio has made it even to the 4rth round of a Grand Slam aside from his French Open win. How many more ATP titles do you think that he will win? Hopefully he can beat Cash and win more than 7.

Action Jackson
11-12-2004, 02:47 AM
Berasategui may suck on a surface other than clay but remember, he made it to the quarter-finals of the Aussie Open and won 14 titles which is not a small achievement. I'm not even sure if Gaudio has made it even to the 4rth round of a Grand Slam aside from his French Open win. How many more ATP titles do you think that he will win? Hopefully he can beat Cash and win more than 7.

I am a Berasategui fan and the forehand was a shot of violence, that could come from anywhere and was very hard to read, but I never had a problem with his game, it was just that surface was hideously fast that those results came wasn't a surprise.

Gaudio made the 3rd round of the AO one year but blew a 2 sets to love lead against his nemesis Lapentti. Then again nearly any player in the top 100 has more self-belief than Gaston.

Yes, he will always be a better guy than Cash, but he has a few years to beat him.

fco253
11-15-2004, 10:19 PM
Good start by Gaston, Roger wasn't rusty at all, but he fighted and played great second set.

RonE
11-15-2004, 10:24 PM
Well, I think you have your answer there- I don't see Alberto pushing Sampras in '94 the way Gaudio did Federer here. Then again, if it was played back then on a slow hardcourt with heavy balls and heavy conditions, anything is possible.....

WyveN
11-15-2004, 10:54 PM
I think Gaudio can do really well on this surface, with the conditions and heavy balls it almost felt like a clay court.

RonE
11-16-2004, 05:25 AM
I think Gaudio can do really well on this surface, with the conditions and heavy balls it almost felt like a clay court.

Yes thats right. The way they played some of the points if the surface was painted red it could well have been mistaken for a clay-court match.

Deboogle!.
11-16-2004, 05:28 AM
Yes thats right. The way they played some of the points if the surface was painted red it could well have been mistaken for a clay-court match.

you know, there's a perfectly good nice pretty red clay court lying underneath the temporary blue hardcourt, even made from the same clay as RG from Paris... maybe Gaudio can pay someone to take it up? ;)

Action Jackson
11-16-2004, 05:31 AM
you know, there's a perfectly good nice pretty red clay court lying underneath the temporary blue hardcourt, even made from the same clay as RG from Paris... maybe Gaudio can pay someone to take it up? ;)

Gaudio has too much class for that. :)

He only needs a few more games to equal Berasategui's efforts.

Action Jackson
11-16-2004, 05:32 AM
Yes thats right. The way they played some of the points if the surface was painted red it could well have been mistaken for a clay-court match.

What were they thinking trying to use angles and different spins and not just trying to blast their way to winning the points. How dare they. :)

hitchhiker
11-16-2004, 05:52 AM
berawhatever had to play on the fastest conditions against the best of the fast court players. if gaudio fails to win a set in slow conditions like this with slow balls then his efforts will be just as shameful as berawhatevers.

RonE
11-16-2004, 05:58 AM
What were they thinking trying to use angles and different spins and not just trying to blast their way to winning the points. How dare they. :)

:lol: Yes, can you imagine poor Jim having to sit through a match like that? ;)

Action Jackson
11-16-2004, 06:01 AM
:lol: Yes, can you imagine poor Jim having to sit through a match like that? ;)

At least for Jim it wasn't the final, so he can feel a lot better because of it. :)

alfonsojose
11-18-2004, 05:21 PM
One more macth to pull a Berasategui :eek: Can Hewitt save him :tape: ?

Action Jackson
11-18-2004, 05:24 PM
Gaston only needs 2 games to get past Berasategui's effort of winning 8 games in 3 matches.

alfonsojose
11-18-2004, 06:20 PM
Didn't he won 14 games already ? :confused:

Action Jackson
11-18-2004, 06:21 PM
Didn't he won 14 games already ? :confused:

You are right. I have had a brain fade at the moment.

He has already done better than Berasategui.

TheBoiledEgg
11-18-2004, 07:46 PM
looks like we were looking in the wrong gp ;) :lol:

alfonsojose
11-18-2004, 08:26 PM
You are right. I have had a brain fade at the moment.

He has already done better than Berasategui.
Maybe you were thinking about "Lord of the cramps" Coria. He has only 9 games in two matches :tape:

Agassi or Nalbandian would have done quite better :sad: but like him or not, Coria earned it

RPH
11-18-2004, 08:49 PM
Maybe you were thinking about "Lord of the cramps" Coria. He has only 9 games in two matches :tape:



'Lord of the Cramps' :haha: :haha: :haha:

Another name to assisotace with Coria :devil:

Action Jackson
11-19-2004, 06:07 AM
Maybe you were thinking about "Lord of the cramps" Coria. He has only 9 games in two matches :tape:

Agassi or Nalbandian would have done quite better :sad: but like him or not, Coria earned it

"Lord of the Cramps" or weasel they are both just as effective.

I am not going to bag him because of the amount of games he has won, but he shouln't have played here because of the injuries, but yes he earned it.