Sacha Baron Cohen is an asshole [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Sacha Baron Cohen is an asshole

abraxas21
02-28-2012, 03:17 PM
Here's a guy who has made a living off satirizing poor peoples, reviving the oldest and crudest homophobic and racial stereotypes about blacks, the roma, eastern europe in general and even the jews themselves.

now, his new movie 'The Dictator' is clearly aimed at the Arabs. i wonder if he is going to portray a balanced picture because people like him fuel the suspicion that many people are motivated by sectarianism than anything else.

his jokes are neither funny or clever. i remember when i watched borat i was just disgusted by him. he's just a asshole deriding others and selling tickets because of it.

rocketassist
02-28-2012, 03:18 PM
No, he's a hero.

RagingLamb
02-28-2012, 03:28 PM
"balanced picture"?

He's not making a documentary about arab culture. Nor is he perceived to be an authority on the issue. He's just a comedian trying to make a few bucks. Anyone who takes his work as a serious source of information is clearly misguided.

I saw the trailer for the dictator and thought it was pretty funny.

abraxas21
02-28-2012, 03:36 PM
what's funnier is that sacha baron cohen himself is probly even more of a sectarianist than the characters he plays and the people he makes fun of

this is a man who postponed his wedding just so that his future wife could go to study Judaism in israel....

Har-Tru
02-28-2012, 03:39 PM
Stop being so butthurt for goodness sake, he's a comedian.

With some major balls let me tell you.

Lopez
02-28-2012, 04:00 PM
Sacha Baron Cohen is one of the funniest and most intelligent guys around. Borat is a hilarious movie and Da Ali G show pure genious. The Dictator's trailer seemed funny and it makes fun of all dictators out there, not Arabs :rolleyes:.

Stop being so butthurt for goodness sake, he's a comedian.

With some major balls let me tell you.

Huge!

Naudio Spanlatine
02-28-2012, 04:04 PM
Lawd please tell this asshole who opened the thread to stfu?:facepalm: :o

Time Violation
02-28-2012, 05:04 PM
"balanced picture"?

He's not making a documentary about arab culture. Nor is he perceived to be an authority on the issue. He's just a comedian trying to make a few bucks. Anyone who takes his work as a serious source of information is clearly misguided.

Spot on

Stop being so butthurt for goodness sake, he's a comedian.

With some major balls let me tell you.

This too.

TMJordan
02-28-2012, 05:08 PM
Nice thread, idiot :facepalm:

Sapeod
02-28-2012, 05:23 PM
Sacha is an asshole? No, he's a comedian and he's very funny at what he does. He also has massive balls, like someone else said.

You are too touchy. You not supposed to take his stuff seriously, at all. With all due respect, get a grip.

abraxas21
02-28-2012, 05:25 PM
Lawd please tell this asshole who opened the thread to stfu?:facepalm: :o

rafa and grigor wouldn't be proud of you using those harsh words. well, maybe grigor would...

and yes, sasha is a total asshat. an unfunny clown who makes his money by deriding others. how funny. no wonder the western civilization is in decline...

Black Adam
02-28-2012, 05:25 PM
Lol at his urn with Kim Jong Il's ashes at the Oscars. A rather dull event not worth remembering.


Except:

http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2012/02/28/1226283/838310-angelina-leg-bomb-star-wars.jpg


http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m037wqd24G1rqzkjco1_250.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m02ilqaiaT1rqzkjco1_250.jpg

http://www.inspirefirst.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/angelina-jolieing-01.jpg

All in all this is more worthy than this thread itself.

abraxas21
02-28-2012, 05:29 PM
Sacha is an asshole? No, he's a comedian and he's very funny at what he does. He also has massive balls, like someone else said.

i think not.

i can genuinely say all the stuff i've seen from him (admitedly not much at all since i watched that crap excuse of a film called borat...) has been shit that hasn't provoked any type of laughter in me or the people i hang around with.

you might think that i'm too serious or too touchy but i can assure you that's not the case. then again, if the type of humour that appeals you and other westerners or even western-wannabes is the type in which a guy makes fun of small communities and peoples, then by all means do laugh. i rather watch something else. thank you.

abraxas21
02-28-2012, 05:33 PM
He's not making a documentary about arab culture. Nor is he perceived to be an authority on the issue. He's just a comedian trying to make a few bucks. Anyone who takes his work as a serious source of information is clearly misguided.

great way of reasoning

i wonder what will this website's mods like you do if i were to crack a "a black and a jew go to a bar" type of joke. hey, it's all for comedy!

it's even funnier considering you have a history for being a bit trigger-happy with the bans, if i'm allowed to say that

scarecrows
02-28-2012, 05:34 PM
what type of dog is this?

abraxas21
02-28-2012, 05:36 PM
Stop being so butthurt for goodness sake, he's a comedian.

everybody likes to laugh except when the joke is on them.

Sapeod
02-28-2012, 05:38 PM
i think not.

i can genuinely say all the stuff i've seen from him (admitedly not much at all since i watched that crap excuse of a film called borat...) has been shit that hasn't provoked any type of laughter in me or the people i hang around with.

you might think that i'm too serious or too touchy but i can assure you that's not the case. then again, if the type of humour that appeals you and other westerners or even western-wannabes is the type in which a guy makes fun of small communities and peoples, then by all means do laugh. i rather watch something else. thank you.
Obvious bitch is obvious.

abraxas21
02-28-2012, 05:39 PM
Obvious bitch is obvious.

hilarious coming from you

Sapeod
02-28-2012, 06:01 PM
hilarious coming from you
I'm a bitch? I do admit I used to be, but am I now?? Haha, not at all.

Seingeist
02-28-2012, 06:23 PM
Here's a guy who has made a living off satirizing poor peoples, reviving the oldest and crudest homophobic and racial stereotypes about blacks, the roma, eastern europe in general and even the jews themselves.

now, his new movie 'The Dictator' is clearly aimed at the Arabs. i wonder if he is going to portray a balanced picture because people like him fuel the suspicion that many people are motivated by sectarianism than anything else.

his jokes are neither funny or clever. i remember when i watched borat i was just disgusted by him. he's just a asshole deriding others and selling tickets because of it.

Never thought I'd see the day! :speakles:

Abraxas, you and I actually agree on something! :yeah:

Johnny Groove
02-28-2012, 06:31 PM
Cohen is harmless when taking for what he is worth. I mean, he's a fucking comedian, man :lol:

What is infinitely more dangerous is those who take what he is saying seriously.

It is like those who take MTF or Stephen Colbert seriously. It is unhealthy to take it seriously. Just laugh at it.

Sham Kay
02-28-2012, 06:43 PM
everybody likes to laugh except when the joke is on them.

Now now let's not generalise.

Not everybody likes to laugh.

kinski76
02-28-2012, 06:43 PM
"Borat" was so-so. Haven't seen any of the other movies. I found the first season of the Ali G show (which he made for Channel 4) to be quite refreshing, funny and clever. He exposed cultural stereotypes in a delightful (and rather inoffensive) way. I never watched the later American shows. Maybe he raunched up (or dumbed down) his act before crossing the pond for added shock value. But the original UK shows were extremely entertaining at times. His comedy shtick really worked in that setting.

Seingeist
02-28-2012, 07:14 PM
Cohen is harmless when taking for what he is worth. I mean, he's a fucking comedian, man :lol:

This seems to be a common misconception, but I believe I know how to clear it up:

Comedians are funny.

Johnny Groove
02-28-2012, 07:23 PM
This seems to be a common misconception, but I believe I know how to clear it up:

Comedians are funny.

Everyone has different tastes. Clearly Mr. Cohen is doing quite well for himself financially on the back of his movies and TV shows, etc.

Ergo, he is a comedian. Just because you don't find him funny doesn't mean that he is not a comedian, it simply means you won't be paying $10 to go see his new movie.

Seingeist
02-28-2012, 07:31 PM
Everyone has different tastes. Clearly Mr. Cohen is doing quite well for himself financially on the back of his movies and TV shows, etc.

Ergo, he is a comedian.

Adam Sandler also did quite well for himself.

What's your point? :devil:

Time Violation
02-28-2012, 08:02 PM
Adam Sandler also did quite well for himself.

What's your point? :devil:

Anger Management had some hilarious moments. Though on the second thought, most of those were because of Jack Nicholson, and he's not even a comedian, hmmm... :D

I think Sacha's strongest points are when he does satire, much less so when he does comedy :)

Har-Tru
02-28-2012, 08:15 PM
everybody likes to laugh except when the joke is on them.

Why do you take it out on me? I didn't expect a kind of Spanish inquisition!

Seingeist
02-28-2012, 08:44 PM
Anger Management had some hilarious moments. Though on the second thought, most of those were because of Jack Nicholson, and he's not even a comedian, hmmm... :D

Waterboy and Little Nicky cannot be shown to POWs because it would violate the Geneva Convention.

Just sayin.

Time Violation
02-28-2012, 08:58 PM
Waterboy and Little Nicky cannot be shown to POWs because it would violate the Geneva Convention.

Just sayin.

Ah, those two :p I guess Waterboy could earn a pass with ages 8 and under, while Little Nicky had to go straight to the nearest dumpster.

abraxas21
02-28-2012, 10:50 PM
I must confess right away that I am conflicted on this one. I disliked the Sasha Baron Cohen's hit film of that name quite a lot and changed channels halfway through it. Like a lot of his work, it struck me as exploitative and inherently condescending to the kind of people who weren't lucky enough to go to Cambridge as he did. It's also a one-trick joke.

Nor was Cohen's own justification for the film – he was roundly criticised and Kazakhstan allegedly threatened to sue him – convincing. He told the Rolling Stone magazine – here's the Telegraph's account – that "the joke is on the racists", because only such people could imagine that his gross parody of Kazakhstan – a place where gays wear blue hats, women live in cages and anti-Semitism is rife – could really exist.

Well, if you say so, Sasha, though there are some pretty nasty countries out there. And I doubt if you'd enjoy the joke if a Cambridge-educated Palestinian pulled off a similar stunt travelling through the more red-neck Israeli settlements on the West Bank – or even north-west London.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2011/aug/24/borat-racism-case-employment-tribunals

abraxas21
02-28-2012, 10:52 PM
Just because you don't find him funny doesn't mean that he is not a comedian, it simply means you won't be paying $10 to go see his new movie.

i don't have a big problem with the fact that he's unfunny. my beef with him is that he comes accross as deeply offensive to others and a lot of idiots are willing to pay those $10 to watch his obnoxious films

Pirata.
02-28-2012, 11:09 PM
I like him, but the problem with his humour is the morons that don't understand the satire and think that he's encouraging the stereotypes when he's more or less calling them out.

So they see his material and use it as an excuse to perpetuate the stereotypes that all Eastern Europeans are ignorant, all Arabs are evil terrorist dictators, etc.

vucina
02-28-2012, 11:23 PM
Here's a guy who has made a living off satirizing poor peoples, reviving the oldest and crudest homophobic and racial stereotypes about blacks, the roma, eastern europe in general and even the jews themselves.

now, his new movie 'The Dictator' is clearly aimed at the Arabs. i wonder if he is going to portray a balanced picture because people like him fuel the suspicion that many people are motivated by sectarianism than anything else.

his jokes are neither funny or clever. i remember when i watched borat i was just disgusted by him. he's just a asshole deriding others and selling tickets because of it.

The objects of his ridicule were mostly rich, white Americans but you conveniently forgot that. It doesn't bother you.

Kiedis
02-28-2012, 11:40 PM
Here's a guy who has made a living off satirizing poor peoples, reviving the oldest and crudest homophobic and racial stereotypes about blacks, the roma, eastern europe in general and even the jews themselves.

now, his new movie 'The Dictator' is clearly aimed at the Arabs. i wonder if he is going to portray a balanced picture because people like him fuel the suspicion that many people are motivated by sectarianism than anything else.

his jokes are neither funny or clever. i remember when i watched borat i was just disgusted by him. he's just a asshole deriding others and selling tickets because of it.

In Borat he satirize more the Americans than eastern europeans.

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RagingLamb
02-29-2012, 12:04 AM
great way of reasoning

i wonder what will this website's mods like you do if i were to crack a "a black and a jew go to a bar" type of joke. hey, it's all for comedy!

it's even funnier considering you have a history for being a bit trigger-happy with the bans, if i'm allowed to say that

:worship:

Borat wasn't about 'cracking racist jokes'. Sacha Baron Cohen portrayed a person who was obviously a backward idiot. What was shocking was people's reactions, or lack thereof, when he did say racist things, such as when the people in the bar sang along to "throw the jew down the well".

That's where the racism came from, and that's what should have been offensive. Not Sacha Baron Cohen's silly character, but that people who come from a civilized country and clearly aren't in character, or clearly aren't backwards idiots could behave in such a racially insensitive way. That's what the movie was trying to do, to expose the latent racism that still exists in America. Even in Bruno, although the character was really over the top, the real homophobia came from people's reactions to Bruno, not Bruno himself.

I'm sorry if you didn't get that.

Anyhow, about the dictator, you haven't even seen the movie and you've already drawn premature conclusions. From the trailer, it seems like he's making fun of the brutal arab dictators of the middle east, such as ghadafi.

I don't see the racism in that.

Sham Kay
02-29-2012, 12:46 AM
Abraxas was right about the thing about we only laugh till the joke is on us. I was cracking up at those vids till this one-


CRRtY77SA5g

I ended up cracking up so hard I soiled myself. It wasn't so funny after that..

Pirata.
02-29-2012, 12:49 AM
Abraxas was right about the thing about we only laugh till the joke is on us. I was cracking up at those vids till this one-



I ended up cracking up so hard I soiled myself. It wasn't so funny after that..

:haha:

Sunset of Age
02-29-2012, 12:55 AM
Borat wasn't about 'cracking racist jokes'. Sacha Baron Cohen portrayed a person who was obviously a backward idiot. What was shocking was people's reactions, or lack thereof, when he did say racist things, such as when the people in the bar sang along to "throw the jew down the well".

That's where the racism came from, and that's what should have been offensive. Not Sacha Baron Cohen's silly character, but that people who come from a civilized country and clearly aren't in character, or clearly aren't backwards idiots could behave in such a racially insensitive way. That's what the movie was trying to do, to expose the latent racism that still exists in America. Even in Bruno, although the character was really over the top, the real homophobia came from people's reactions to Bruno, not Bruno himself.

I'm sorry if you didn't get that.

Anyhow, about the dictator, you haven't even seen the movie and you've already drawn premature conclusions. From the trailer, it seems like he's making fun of the brutal arab dictators of the middle east, such as ghadafi.

I don't see the racism in that.

:yeah:
I sometimes ask myself which is more scary, a lack of IQ or a lack of sense of humour. I guess those two go together quite often. :o

shiaben
02-29-2012, 01:05 AM
Here's a guy who has made a living off satirizing poor peoples, reviving the oldest and crudest homophobic and racial stereotypes about blacks, the roma, eastern europe in general and even the jews themselves.

now, his new movie 'The Dictator' is clearly aimed at the Arabs. i wonder if he is going to portray a balanced picture because people like him fuel the suspicion that many people are motivated by sectarianism than anything else.

his jokes are neither funny or clever. i remember when i watched borat i was just disgusted by him. he's just a asshole deriding others and selling tickets because of it.

Agree with you 100% wholeheartedly.

But my mom thinks Borat was okay compared to his works that came after (not because they were biased or not, but because the material just wasn't funny or satirical at all).

She said it hard to call him biased because he not only took a pot shot at the cultures you mentioned above (which seemed biased in the beginning), but the Borat film took a twist when he took a pot shot against both Americans and the American South.

ssin
02-29-2012, 01:22 AM
his jokes are neither funny or clever. i remember when i watched borat i was just disgusted by him. he's just a asshole deriding others and selling tickets because of it.

+1. A very good and appropriate thread, imo.

never thought he was funny (and never doubted my own taste, but to each their own). I don't think he is stupid at all, he is intelligent, but more than that he is just sly, basically feeding off human ignorance and questionable taste, which could be a nice play to some people, you can perceive it as camp but it's just not my cup of tea. I mean, I can enjoy good trash but this is not the thing.

On the other hand, films by Coen brothers like that in your avatar are products of true spirit, inspiration and intelligence. And they are actually funny. Some of their movies like Fargo and Barton Fink are just masterpieces, younger generations will learn about them in schools unlike Baron Cohen. So, there are Cohens and Coens, before someone decides you are anti-Jewish or something like that ;)

Mjau!
02-29-2012, 01:44 AM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2011/aug/24/borat-racism-case-employment-tribunals

:yeah:

I like him, but the problem with his humour is the morons that don't understand the satire and think that he's encouraging the stereotypes when he's more or less calling them out.

So they see his material and use it as an excuse to perpetuate the stereotypes that all Eastern Europeans are ignorant, all Arabs are evil terrorist dictators, etc.

When did he ever call out any stereotype regarding arabs? :scratch:

kinski76
02-29-2012, 01:47 AM
CRRtY77SA5g

I remember this :haha:

Taking the piss is a healthy exercise. I swear politically correct sensitivity will kill comedy one day.

Dund
02-29-2012, 01:55 AM
Here's a guy who has made a living off satirizing poor peoples, reviving the oldest and crudest homophobic and racial stereotypes about blacks, the roma, eastern europe in general and even the jews themselves.

now, his new movie 'The Dictator' is clearly aimed at the Arabs. i wonder if he is going to portray a balanced picture because people like him fuel the suspicion that many people are motivated by sectarianism than anything else.

his jokes are neither funny or clever. i remember when i watched borat i was just disgusted by him. he's just a asshole deriding others and selling tickets because of it.
Sacha Baron Cohen gives less than a fuck. As do most people. He takes the piss out of people. It's funny. Everyone should be capable of having the piss taken out of them. He ain't promoting hate crimes. He's taking the piss.

If you think this is racist, check out what for me are two of the greatest stand up comic shows of all time. Raw and Delirious by Eddie Murphy. He took the piss out of EVERYONE. There was no genuine hate there, though I'm sure someone like you would be horrified. He's just taking the absolute piss out of all sorts of stereotypes. It was funny as fuck.

AFAIC the level of political correctness of today is ridiculous. There's always a line that shouldn't be crossed, but that line IMO has been raised to a ridiculous level.
everybody likes to laugh except when the joke is on them.
Incorrect. These people are called stuck up wankers. Otherwise known as cock up arse syndrome. As an Australian one of our favourite pastimes is taking the piss out of people. Especially friends. Not doing it, or taking genuine offense is regarded as un-Australian. As it should be.

ssin
02-29-2012, 02:09 AM
He is just not funny - not funny at all, and it's all I need to know about the man as far as I'm concerned.

I said it again just in case, now I'm getting out of the discussion before it inevitably becomes a battle of different tastes :p

buddyholly
02-29-2012, 02:15 AM
his jokes are neither funny or clever. i remember when i watched borat i was just disgusted by him. he's just a asshole deriding others and selling tickets because of it.

I thought you would have loved Borat. Mostly he was deriding Americans.

Whether he is funny or not is a matter of opinion. But only the most insecure, humourless, politically correct asshole would come up with the opinion that satire should be limited to ''acceptable'' targets. If you can't see that ''politically correct satire'' is an oxymoron, best to just just stay in your room and read your Marx (Karl, not Groucho).

buddyholly
02-29-2012, 02:19 AM
This seems to be a common misconception, but I believe I know how to clear it up:

Comedians are funny.

Come on, now. His takedown of of those US politicians and fundamentalists was hilarious.

Mjau!
02-29-2012, 02:22 AM
Come on, now. His takedown of of those US politicians and fundamentalists was hilarious.

He's a fundamentalist himself. :o

buddyholly
02-29-2012, 02:24 AM
Borat wasn't about 'cracking racist jokes'. Sacha Baron Cohen portrayed a person who was obviously a backward idiot. What was shocking was people's reactions, or lack thereof, when he did say racist things, such as when the people in the bar sang along to "throw the jew down the well".
.

That was probably the only part of the movie that abraxas liked.

When they had that piece about whacking Jews in Kazakhstan, abraxas probably thought he was satirising the people of Kazakhstan, without being able to see that he was actually satirizing anti-Semites.

Seingeist
02-29-2012, 02:38 AM
+1. A very good and appropriate thread, imo.

never thought he was funny (and never doubted my own taste, but to each their own). I don't think he is stupid at all, he is intelligent, but more than that he is just sly, basically feeding off human ignorance and questionable taste, which could be a nice play to some people, you can perceive it as camp but it's just not my cup of tea. I mean, I can enjoy good trash but this is not the thing.

On the other hand, films by Coen brothers like that in your avatar are products of true spirit, inspiration and intelligence. And they are actually funny. Some of their movies like Fargo and Barton Fink are just masterpieces, younger generations will learn about them in schools unlike Baron Cohen. So, there are Cohens and Coens, before someone decides you are anti-Jewish or something like that ;)

Spot on! :yeah:

Excellent post.

@BH: ssin's comments above can serve nicely as my reply.

buddyholly
02-29-2012, 02:43 AM
What I found intriguing about Borat was the blurring of reality and acting. I mean was that horse falling in the background at the rodeo real or staged? Were those people at the rodeo actually applauding the "war of terror"? Given the kind of people at such a rodeo, we are left with not knowing whether their outrageous behaviour was real or whether they were actors. I still don't know.

Borat was exactly like Monty Python - except that Monty Python was never real, and Borat just might be real! Scary funny indeed!

buddyholly
02-29-2012, 02:59 AM
now, his new movie 'The Dictator' is clearly aimed at the Arabs. i wonder if he is going to portray a balanced picture because people like him fuel the suspicion that many people are motivated by sectarianism than anything else.



Who told you who it is aimed at? As far as I can see it is aimed at certain dictators like Hussein, Gadaafi and Assad and in no way at all is aimed at ''the Arabs''. Do you really think those guys do not deserve to be satirised?

Hey, the movie is based on that modern, Iraqi classic novel "Jabibah and the King.'' What's not to like?

abraxas21
02-29-2012, 04:17 AM
:worship:

Borat wasn't about 'cracking racist jokes'. Sacha Baron Cohen portrayed a person who was obviously a backward idiot. What was shocking was people's reactions, or lack thereof, when he did say racist things, such as when the people in the bar sang along to "throw the jew down the well".

That's where the racism came from, and that's what should have been offensive. Not Sacha Baron Cohen's silly character, but that people who come from a civilized country and clearly aren't in character, or clearly aren't backwards idiots could behave in such a racially insensitive way. That's what the movie was trying to do, to expose the latent racism that still exists in America. Even in Bruno, although the character was really over the top, the real homophobia came from people's reactions to Bruno, not Bruno himself.

I'm sorry if you didn't get that.

Anyhow, about the dictator, you haven't even seen the movie and you've already drawn premature conclusions. From the trailer, it seems like he's making fun of the brutal arab dictators of the middle east, such as ghadafi.

I don't see the racism in that.

you are misunderstanding me.

i'm not claiming he's racist (well, not necessarily), i'm simply taking issue with your idea that just because hes a 'comedian' he should more or less get a free pass. comedy, as any form of expression, can be quite powerful and measures should be taken to see that it doesn't get out of certain bouderies.

abraxas21
02-29-2012, 04:19 AM
+1. A very good and appropriate thread, imo.

never thought he was funny (and never doubted my own taste, but to each their own). I don't think he is stupid at all, he is intelligent, but more than that he is just sly, basically feeding off human ignorance and questionable taste, which could be a nice play to some people, you can perceive it as camp but it's just not my cup of tea. I mean, I can enjoy good trash but this is not the thing.

On the other hand, films by Coen brothers like that in your avatar are products of true spirit, inspiration and intelligence. And they are actually funny. Some of their movies like Fargo and Barton Fink are just masterpieces, younger generations will learn about them in schools unlike Baron Cohen. So, there are Cohens and Coens, before someone decides you are anti-Jewish or something like that ;)

exactly. couldn't have said it better myself.

abraxas21
02-29-2012, 04:26 AM
When they had that piece about whacking Jews in Kazakhstan, abraxas probably thought he was satirising the people of Kazakhstan, without being able to see that he was actually satirizing anti-Semites.

if that's so, then i wonder why the kazakhs were so offended by it? a dumb nation, i guess.

abraxas21
02-29-2012, 04:39 AM
Agree with you 100% wholeheartedly.

But my mom thinks Borat was okay compared to his works that came after (not because they were biased or not, but because the material just wasn't funny or satirical at all).

She said it hard to call him biased because he not only took a pot shot at the cultures you mentioned above (which seemed biased in the beginning), but the Borat film took a twist when he took a pot shot against both Americans and the American South.

yup, i agree. then again, he knows who to deride and when to keep quiet. making fun of an american redneck is easy, taking the piss out of pamela anderson is acceptabe and deriding a small eastern nation noone has heard is for free. with that in mind, i'd be surprised if sacha goes as far as to deride fellow jews in israel.

that said, i thought some of the stuff in borat was somewhat interesting but most of it was just in pretty poor taste and highly humourless. it's one of those films were you actually feel dumber as you watch it, and perhaps more than that, you get to feel embarrassed for the mocked people who are unaware of the situation. i remember having a similar feeling watching some episodes of jackass (a series which was also bad for the most part but not nearly as awful as borat).

rocketassist
02-29-2012, 06:17 AM
yup, i agree. then again, he knows who to deride and when to keep quiet. making fun of an american redneck is easy, taking the piss out of pamela anderson is acceptabe and deriding a small eastern nation noone has heard is for free. with that in mind, i'd be surprised if sacha goes as far as to deride fellow jews in israel.

that said, i thought some of the stuff in borat was somewhat interesting but most of it was just in pretty poor taste and highly humourless. it's one of those films were you actually feel dumber as you watch it, and perhaps more than that, you get to feel embarrassed for the mocked people who are unaware of the situation. i remember having a similar feeling watching some episodes of jackass (a series which was also bad for the most part but not nearly as awful as borat).

you thought Jackass was bad too? Where does your sense of humour stop at?

shiaben
02-29-2012, 07:52 AM
Worse than jackass or borat, IMHO, would be anything involving Seth Rogen or Zach Galifianakis. They've pretty much continued this dumb trend of poor tasting comedy. It's depressing how tasteless non-satirical humor is becoming bigger than ever.

Lopez
02-29-2012, 09:45 AM
you thought Jackass was bad too? Where does your sense of humour stop at?

Comparing Jackass and Cohen.......................

Jackass is a bunch of no-talent idiots (ok some of them know how to skate) inflicting pain on themselves in stupid ways. That is not funny.

This is funny:
eB5VXJXxnNU&feature=related

buddyholly
02-29-2012, 01:17 PM
i'm not claiming he's racist (well, not necessarily), i'm simply taking issue with your idea that just because hes a 'comedian' he should more or less get a free pass. comedy, as any form of expression, can be quite powerful and measures should be taken to see that it doesn't get out of certain bouderies.

We have often talked of the PC police in jest and here you are seriously proposing just such an entity.
Admit it, you are just another fantasy socialist who dreams that in the perfect society you will be one of the few who are brilliant enough to decide for the others. But when everyone has the same fantasies, it doesn't work.

In truth, the things you are saying in this thread could be straight from the mouth of a Sacha Cohen movie character. We will never know whether it is a real person speaking or an elaborate put-on.

buddyholly
02-29-2012, 01:27 PM
This is funny:
eB5VXJXxnNU&feature=related

This is what I mentioned before. It looks very real, but it is hard to accept that he got those four supposedly intelligent people to sit there and take part in this discussion.

I still don't know. I guess it falls under the description ''painfully '' funny.

buddyholly
02-29-2012, 01:33 PM
yup, i agree. then again, he knows who to deride and when to keep quiet. making fun of an american redneck is easy, taking the piss out of pamela anderson is acceptabe and deriding a small eastern nation noone has heard is for free. with that in mind, i'd be surprised if sacha goes as far as to deride fellow jews in israel.


You'd be surprised. Go see Bruno, then, for a big surprise.

And it is not OK to make fun of Pamela Anderson. She is Canadian and falls outside the boundaries of permissible humour - or she will when I am in charge of the PC police.

buddyholly
02-29-2012, 01:57 PM
Never thought I'd see the day! :speakles:

Abraxas, you and I actually agree on something! :yeah:

This thread is meaningless if it is just about what each individual finds funny. But do you agree with abraxas that the boundaries of humour should be regulated by some government bureaucrats?

For example, in a quote above abraxas believes it is OK to poke fun at the religious beliefs and intelligence of American rednecks, but appears to be outraged if the humour is directed at the religious beliefs and intelligence of some people in the Middle East.
Similarly it is OK to poke fun at Pamela Anderson, who is rich and harmless (but guilty of being Western), but not OK to poke fun at the likes of Gadaafi and Assad, who are/were rich and murderous (but not Western).

Seingeist
02-29-2012, 01:59 PM
Right, talk of "measures should be taken" leaves me extremely uneasy.

Among other things, I think that Cohen is unfunny and an asshole. However, the response to this should not be any kind of state-sponsored censorship, obviously. It should simply be not shilling out $10 to go see his "movies," as Johnny Capo indicated above. :shrug:

In the original post to which I was responding, BH, abraxas included nothing about "regulation." I emphatically do not agree with him there. But I do not think that it is otherwise fair to call the thread "meaningless." I enjoy seeing some of today's undeserving "cultural heroes" receive a bit of flak. :)

buddyholly
02-29-2012, 02:08 PM
But I do not think that it is otherwise fair to call the thread "meaningless." I enjoy seeing some of today's undeserving "cultural heroes" receive a bit of flak. :)

OK, but you are choosing who is undeserving. Can I choose Jesus?

Just watched the Dictator on youtube on the red carpet at the Oscars. Jaw-dropping humour once more. How does he get away with it? Or were Seacrest and the Oscar organizers in on the fun?
His line, "Now you can say you are wearing Kim Jong-Il'' was the funniest line of the night.

Har-Tru
02-29-2012, 02:19 PM
This is what I mentioned before. It looks very real, but it is hard to accept that he got those four supposedly intelligent people to sit there and take part in this discussion.

I still don't know. I guess it falls under the description ''painfully '' funny.

Oh my, Kent Hovind... the imprisoned creationist who got his "doctor"'s degree from this "University":

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/10/PatriotUniv1.jpg

I don't know any of the others, but if they're anything like Hovind then they're all but intelligent. Probably beginning with the futurologist who thinks the term Homo Sapiens is Greek.

Seingeist
02-29-2012, 02:34 PM
OK, but you are choosing who is undeserving. Can I choose Jesus?

Obviously you can. Don't people do that all the time? :shrug: Is irreverence to Jesus/Christianity something that you find rare or refreshing among the contemporary youth?

I mean, it's not like there's a "Piss Cohen," is there?

(and on a side note, c'mon with this already, BH. My labeling Cohen as an unfunny douche struck you as a relevant opportunity to bring "Christianity" into this?)

Purple Rainbow
02-29-2012, 04:13 PM
:worship:

Borat wasn't about 'cracking racist jokes'. Sacha Baron Cohen portrayed a person who was obviously a backward idiot. What was shocking was people's reactions, or lack thereof, when he did say racist things, such as when the people in the bar sang along to "throw the jew down the well".

That's where the racism came from, and that's what should have been offensive. Not Sacha Baron Cohen's silly character, but that people who come from a civilized country and clearly aren't in character, or clearly aren't backwards idiots could behave in such a racially insensitive way. That's what the movie was trying to do, to expose the latent racism that still exists in America. Even in Bruno, although the character was really over the top, the real homophobia came from people's reactions to Bruno, not Bruno himself.

I'm sorry if you didn't get that.


^ This man speaks the truth!

The joke is not in Borat saying "when I bought my wife she was strong with the plough", the joke is in people not even blinking an eyelid when he says it.

The joke is not Borat making a ludicrous speech about the war on terror, it is the enthusiastic response he gets.

Baron Cohen has relly developed a unique way of making comedy. I can understand it's not for everyone. I dare say that most people who like Borat don't understand what makes it brilliant.

buddyholly
02-29-2012, 04:16 PM
The joke is not Borat making a ludicrous speech about the war on terror, it is the enthusiastic response he gets.



Even more outrageous when what he actually said at the rodeo was ''your war of terror''

buddyholly
02-29-2012, 04:26 PM
I mean, it's not like there's a "Piss Cohen," is there?


I don't know. But if there was, it would probably go unnoticed anyway. Which is why there probably isn't.

But more interesting to me is that there is no Piss Mohammed.

Sapeod
02-29-2012, 05:03 PM
I can't believe Abraxas' moaning in here :lol: Too funny :lol:

ballbasher101
02-29-2012, 06:06 PM
As most have said who takes Sacha Baron Cohen seriously. Simon Baron Cohen you can take seriously :hatoff:

abraxas21
02-29-2012, 09:55 PM
We have often talked of the PC police in jest and here you are seriously proposing just such an entity.
Admit it, you are just another fantasy socialist who dreams that in the perfect society you will be one of the few who are brilliant enough to decide for the others. But when everyone has the same fantasies, it doesn't work.

In truth, the things you are saying in this thread could be straight from the mouth of a Sacha Cohen movie character. We will never know whether it is a real person speaking or an elaborate put-on.

what exactly are you disagreeing with? the message was clear "comedy, as any form of expression, can be quite powerful and measures should be taken to see that it doesn't get out of certain bouderies."


anyone with a tiny bit of respect for different peoples would agree with that statement. even most governments from the west and the east actually agree with that statement.

abraxas21
02-29-2012, 09:58 PM
This thread is meaningless if it is just about what each individual finds funny. But do you agree with abraxas that the boundaries of humour should be regulated by some government bureaucrats?

It is EVIDENT that any sane gvt should do that.

For example, in a quote above abraxas believes it is OK to poke fun at the religious beliefs and intelligence of American rednecks, but appears to be outraged if the humour is directed at the religious beliefs and intelligence of some people in the Middle East.
Similarly it is OK to poke fun at Pamela Anderson, who is rich and harmless (but guilty of being Western), but not OK to poke fun at the likes of Gadaafi and Assad, who are/were rich and murderous (but not Western).

dear, you still have a penchant for distorting words, don't you?

abraxas21
02-29-2012, 10:02 PM
Baron Cohen has relly developed a unique way of making comedy. I can understand it's not for everyone. I dare say that most people who like Borat don't understand what makes it brilliant.

or maybe it's because he's just not funny?

fast_clay
02-29-2012, 11:35 PM
when you are the master pisstaker, not everyone is meant to get it... that is the point... otherwise there would be no joke for the rest of us...

buddyholly
03-01-2012, 01:07 AM
what exactly are you disagreeing with? the message was clear "comedy, as any form of expression, can be quite powerful and measures should be taken to see that it doesn't get out of certain bouderies."


anyone with a tiny bit of respect for different peoples would agree with that statement. even most governments from the west and the east actually agree with that statement.

I am exactly disagreeing with the message. Whether it was clear or not is irrelevant.

I am afraid you just live in your own little fantasy world. All the western governments I know have a thing called ''freedom of speech.'' They protect the right of Sacha Baron Cohen to do what he does. The exact opposite of what you perceive from your fantasy cave.

And having respect for different peoples does not in any way mean agreeing that satire should to be controlled by some faceless bureaucrats.

buddyholly
03-01-2012, 01:12 AM
It is EVIDENT that any sane gvt should do that.





It may be evident to you. But, unfortunately for you, the real world totally disagrees that freedom of speech should be limited by government. Western governments generally realize that controlling what people think and say is not beneficial to anyone. Only governments that do not have the confidence and support of their citizens are forced to attempt to control what may be said.

And having made a laughing stock of yourself with this thread, you continue to dig yourself an even deeper hole.

abraxas21
03-01-2012, 03:22 AM
It may be evident to you. But, unfortunately for you, the real world totally disagrees that freedom of speech should be limited by government.

you really live in your own little bubble, don't you?

buddyholly
03-01-2012, 03:28 AM
Give me some examples of western governments that have expressed disagreement with Sacha Cohen's comedy. You have already flatly stated that most western governments agree that measures should be taken to see that his comedy stays within certain boundaries. So it should be easy.

Which governments? Put up or shut up. You have to stop making things up and then refusing to acknowledge that you just made them up. Or, who knows, maybe you are so confused that you make things up and instantly believe yourself.

Anyway, burst my bubble and free me from this soapy prison. I am so cut off from Western civilization that I have not even heard of the ''comedy boundary'' law.

abraxas21
03-01-2012, 03:30 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHVnDQOsOic&feature=related

one of the first times i can agree on something with ron paul

abraxas21
03-01-2012, 03:33 AM
You have already flatly stated that most western governments agree that measures should be taken to see that his comedy stays within certain boundaries. So it should be easy.

i have actually never said that.

you're seeing what you want to see, as usual

abraxas21
03-01-2012, 03:40 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZheYqoKtt60

what a total asshole and propagandist

buddyholly
03-01-2012, 03:45 AM
i have actually never said that.

you're seeing what you want to see, as usual

You stated that ''measures should be taken to see that comedy does not get out of certain boundaries. Most western governments agree with this statement.''

And I say you are talking nonsense and can not back that up with examples.

It is getting a bit boring that you keep saying ''I never said that'', just because a word might be in different order, or something equally trivial that does nothing at all to change the meaning of what you actually said.

abraxas21
03-01-2012, 04:05 AM
You stated that ''measures should be taken to see that comedy does not get out of certain boundaries. Most western governments agree with this statement.''

And I say you are talking nonsense and can not back that up with examples.

It is getting a bit boring that you keep saying ''I never said that'', just because a word might be in different order, or something equally trivial that does nothing at all to change the meaning of what you actually said.

the difference isn't trivial at all and it seems you still don't get it, but i'll let you alone to figure it out. good luck

buddyholly
03-01-2012, 04:08 AM
what exactly are you disagreeing with? the message was clear "comedy, as any form of expression, can be quite powerful and measures should be taken to see that it doesn't get out of certain bouderies."


anyone with a tiny bit of respect for different peoples would agree with that statement. even most governments from the west and the east actually agree with that statement.

Here is your actual quote.

To which I replied, "You have already flatly stated that most western governments agree that measures should be taken to see that his comedy stays within certain boundaries.''

Now, what part of my reply can not be inferred from your statement? Oh wait, you said ''boudaries'' and I said ''boundaries''. Is that where I misinterpreted your post?

buddyholly
03-01-2012, 04:10 AM
the difference isn't trivial at all and it seems you still don't get it, but i'll let you alone to figure it out. good luck

You have used that one before when cornered - ''figure it out because I won't tell you.'' Duh! Do you think anyone would be fooled by that childish nonsense?

Time Violation
03-01-2012, 08:02 AM
You have used that one before when cornered - ''figure it out because I won't tell you.'' Duh! Do you think anyone would be fooled by that childish nonsense?

Why do you even bother? :) It's well known that some people would rather face death than admit they were wrong :lol:

ssin
03-01-2012, 10:26 AM
What I found intriguing about Borat was the blurring of reality and acting. I mean was that horse falling in the background at the rodeo real or staged? Were those people at the rodeo actually applauding the "war of terror"? Given the kind of people at such a rodeo, we are left with not knowing whether their outrageous behaviour was real or whether they were actors. I still don't know.

Borat was exactly like Monty Python - except that Monty Python was never real, and Borat just might be real! Scary funny indeed!

that's called mockumentary style. See for example Dark Side of the Moon:

"... a French documentary by director William Karel which ...originally aired on Arte in 2002 with the title Opération Lune. The basic premise for the film is the theory that the television footage from the Apollo 11 Moon landing was faked and actually recorded in a studio by the CIA with help from director Stanley Kubrick. It features some surprising guest appearances, most notably by Donald Rumsfeld, Dr. Henry Kissinger, Alexander Haig, Buzz Aldrin and Stanley Kubrick's widow, Christiane Kubrick. The tone of the documentary begins with low key revelations of NASA working closely with Hollywood at the time of the Moon landings. Over the course of the tale, Karel postulates that not only did Kubrick help the USA fake the moon landings but that he was eventually killed by the CIA to cover up the truth. First hand testimony backing these claims come from Rumsfeld and Dr. Kissinger, which lend credence to the story"

Many (too many) people took the film as a complete truth, just because of its tone&setting

on topic, don't you think that a major anti-PC move by Cohen would be satirizing Israel? Wouldn't that be the most "outrageous, courageous" and all that jazz? Funny, even?

Are we going to see that movie any time soon, what do you think?

buddyholly
03-01-2012, 12:20 PM
Didn't he do some of that in Bruno?

ssin
03-01-2012, 12:37 PM
Didn't he do some of that in Bruno?

I don't know, really, I must admit, but will check. He comes across like a total prick from what I saw (Borat, Ali G)

Sham Kay
03-01-2012, 01:02 PM
The guy is Cambridge University educated, so being a prick comes naturally. Takes the piss out of his own background alot of the time.

His parodying is actually incredibly thought provoking if you don't let your PC morals stop you from looking past the over the top antics and judging what is being said about the different parts of society under scrutiny. A bit like South Park.

buddyholly
03-01-2012, 01:11 PM
I don't know, really, I must admit, but will check. He comes across like a total prick from what I saw (Borat, Ali G)

There are youtube videos of him in a parody of orthodox Jewish dress, with tiny hot pants and a huge hat, on a street somewhere in israel, putting his life on the line.

abraxas21
03-01-2012, 01:31 PM
His parodying is actually incredibly thought provoking if you don't let your PC morals stop you from looking past the over the top antics and judging what is being said about the different parts of society under scrutiny. A bit like South Park.

south park at least managed to be fun a lot of the time. sacha baron cohen isn't.

the problem i have with him isn't about me being PC but about having the goal that at least negates the aspiration to sell something that it's not. sacha sells movies under the guise of reverse racism when in point of fact the things he introduces and the focus of his mocking is many times simply offensive to groups that haven't done anything to be negatively stereotyped in such a way. you might notice the evident contradiction among the replies i get here. on one side people say 'he's just a comedian, it would be stupid to take him seriously' and then others like you say that this parody is 'indredibly thought provoking'. i personally think neither is the correct answer to his work.

like others say (and i'm sure you'd agree) sacha isn't interested about showing a balanced view of reality and on those grounds, based on the stuff i've seen from him, i suspect a lot about his methods in order to make his guests say unpopular things. it's actually not that hard to make minority groups look like idiots for the majority to laugh at them. at the end of the day, big groups will always find something funny in the smaller ones and sacha exploits this need-for-laughs quite well.

abraxas21
03-01-2012, 01:39 PM
putting his life on the line.

QFT

ssin
03-01-2012, 01:39 PM
There are youtube videos of him in a parody of orthodox Jewish dress, with tiny hot pants and a huge hat, on a street somewhere in israel, putting his life on the line.

Alright, but that does not mean he satirizes Israel. Not necessarily. I think you know what I mean. As a matter of fact, Orthodox Jews are much less Zionists (if at all) than some other Jewish groups.

I like Jewish people, culture, art..very much. just to make it 100% clear what we are talking about here. IMO, we are talking about a guy who apparently exposes someone else's dirty laundry, and that would be ok if it was funny and in good faith, even if he had tons of dirty laundry himself (and I believe he does). I find him both unfunny and an asshole who doesn't do things in good faith.

Maybe it's time for me to leave the discussion, there's not really much to talk about, I probably know less about the man than all other posters here, but I think I know an asshole when I see one... so, this is still an appropriate topic.

buddyholly
03-01-2012, 05:37 PM
like others say (and i'm sure you'd agree) sacha isn't interested about showing a balanced view of reality and on those grounds, based on the stuff i've seen from him, i suspect a lot about his methods in order to make his guests say unpopular things. it's actually not that hard to make minority groups look like idiots for the majority to laugh at them. at the end of the day, big groups will always find something funny in the smaller ones and sacha exploits this need-for-laughs quite well.

You two seem to have a lot in common, then.

You also seem to have gone wobbly at the end, now claiming that he is good at his work.

abraxas21
03-01-2012, 06:22 PM
You also seem to have gone wobbly at the end, now claiming that he is good at his work.

you aren't understanding the subtleties in language that might mean something else completely.

he's good at his work in terms of tickets sold and fat stack (obviously, he's a millionaire by now) but that doesn't mean that his work is any good (it just happens that a lot of people think it is). to make a random example, i could make a similar case for justin bieber.

Filo V.
03-01-2012, 06:26 PM
His humor is for *mostly* douchebags. It's douchebag humor. I wouldn't call him an asshole, but a douche. So, it's no wonder a lot of people here love him.

buddyholly
03-01-2012, 07:37 PM
you aren't understanding the subtleties in language that might mean something else completely.



This very sentence illustrates that you have no idea about language, subtle or otherwise.

buddyholly
03-01-2012, 07:41 PM
he's good at his work in terms of tickets sold and fat stack (obviously, he's a millionaire by now) but that doesn't mean that his work is any good (it just happens that a lot of people think it is). to make a random example, i could make a similar case for justin bieber.

So who defines what ''good'' is? Certainly not you. Why not some of those people who think he is? As always, you continue to be strait-jacketed by your belief that your opinion is always the correct one. That flaw alone is enough to disqualify you from anything.

And doesn't being a millionaire prove he is good? He is not doing what he does because he just wants to make people laugh. He is doing what he does to earn lots of money. He is good at it.

shiaben
03-01-2012, 07:59 PM
So who defines what ''good'' is? Certainly not you. Why not some of those people who think he is? As always, you continue to be strait-jacketed by your belief that your opinion is always the correct one. That flaw alone is enough to disqualify you from anything.

And doesn't being a millionaire prove he is good? He is not doing what he does because he just wants to make people laugh. He is doing what he does to earn lots of money. He is good at it.

He's talking about good in a different context.

There's good as in selling something and making profit out of it (the one you're clearly implying).

Then there's good in terms of what is right and wrong i.e. morals, norms, expectations.

Take for example. There was a mini-series called "The Amazing Racist".

The entire thing was staged obviously (otherwise he'd be murdered).

But anyways in one of the episodes, he dresses up as a member of the KKK.

I think this is an example of comedy that has CLEARLY crossed the line.

There are some things you shouldn't make comedy out of.

buddyholly
03-01-2012, 10:41 PM
But anyways in one of the episodes, he dresses up as a member of the KKK.

I think this is an example of comedy that has CLEARLY crossed the line.

There are some things you shouldn't make comedy out of.

I think this is totally misjudged. When we see people in KKK uniforms now, we laugh at them. Mockery probably did more to destroy the KKK than censorship ever could.

Lopez
03-01-2012, 11:54 PM
I think this is totally misjudged. When we see people in KKK uniforms now, we laugh at them. Mockery probably did more to destroy the KKK than censorship ever could.

That's actually true.

Don't remember the name, but a reporter is credited of having a great role in destroying the KKK by infiltrating their ranks for a long time and writing a book about it. When people learned about the strange rituals, different color dresses and weird ranks within the clan, they thought that it was merely hilarious that grown men had this dress-up game which they took so seriously. The KKK lost a lot of popularity and became a target of ridicule instead of fear (they weren't that fearsome to begin with, the history of their lynchings is, while certainly horrible, to my knowledge quite exaggerated in numbers at least).

MaxPower
03-02-2012, 11:22 AM
south park at least managed to be fun a lot of the time. sacha baron cohen isn't.

Too you. I find both Matt Stone/Trey Parker AND Baron Cohen funny. And if Baron Cohen wasn't funny people wouldn't laugh so much watching his shows and movies. So he might be an asshole but even assholes can be funny.


like others say (and i'm sure you'd agree) sacha isn't interested about showing a balanced view of reality and on those grounds, based on the stuff i've seen from him, i suspect a lot about his methods in order to make his guests say unpopular things. it's actually not that hard to make minority groups look like idiots for the majority to laugh at them. at the end of the day, big groups will always find something funny in the smaller ones and sacha exploits this need-for-laughs quite well.

Comedy is a lot about exploiting stuff. Clip shows like Americans funniest homevids are exploiting people falling and breaking stuff, animals and all kinds of things. Should people complain about that? Most stand-up comedians roast celebrities, politicians and other comedians with very offensive stuff for laughs but I don't see any big deal there either.

The ironic part is that some people and some cultures think they are immune to be made fun of. Like "our miniority group is exploited for laughs" when in reality pretty much everything on this planet is exploited for laughs and absolutely nothing puts them above the rest except maybe not being used to it.

No miniority group is above being made fun of. Arabs in particular should be exploited more for laughs because many take their culture and religion way waaaaaaaay to serious for 2012 in a modern and global society.

The best medicine against that won't be to stop making fun of them to avoid being called generalizing/exploting/unfair/biased/zionist assholes. The best medicine is probably to make even more fun of them to show that there is no drama in it. If arabs have drawn a line that can't be crossed then comedians should cross that line over and over to move the line to a more reasonable location. Not give in to threats. For example all the drama around the Prophet/Qur'an and people actually kill for jokes from an artist/comedian is something showing a deep sickness. It's just as sick as a dictator killing his citizens for making fun of him or his party because they somehow are above being made fun of. Yet in this case people like to put the blame on comedians/artists or other creative people instead of going after the root problem.

Baron Cohen is definitely a line crosser. He got guts too push things and eventually that removes drama around those minority groups just like some people are saying in this thread. In the long run the effect is positive, in the short run a select few will be offended.

abraxas21
03-02-2012, 11:51 PM
Too you. I find both Matt Stone/Trey Parker AND Baron Cohen funny. And if Baron Cohen wasn't funny people wouldn't laugh so much watching his shows and movies. So he might be an asshole but even assholes can be funny.




Comedy is a lot about exploiting stuff. Clip shows like Americans funniest homevids are exploiting people falling and breaking stuff, animals and all kinds of things. Should people complain about that? Most stand-up comedians roast celebrities, politicians and other comedians with very offensive stuff for laughs but I don't see any big deal there either.

The ironic part is that some people and some cultures think they are immune to be made fun of. Like "our miniority group is exploited for laughs" when in reality pretty much everything on this planet is exploited for laughs and absolutely nothing puts them above the rest except maybe not being used to it.

No miniority group is above being made fun of. Arabs in particular should be exploited more for laughs because many take their culture and religion way waaaaaaaay to serious for 2012 in a modern and global society.

The best medicine against that won't be to stop making fun of them to avoid being called generalizing/exploting/unfair/biased/zionist assholes. The best medicine is probably to make even more fun of them to show that there is no drama in it. If arabs have drawn a line that can't be crossed then comedians should cross that line over and over to move the line to a more reasonable location. Not give in to threats. For example all the drama around the Prophet/Qur'an and people actually kill for jokes from an artist/comedian is something showing a deep sickness. It's just as sick as a dictator killing his citizens for making fun of him or his party because they somehow are above being made fun of. Yet in this case people like to put the blame on comedians/artists or other creative people instead of going after the root problem.

Baron Cohen is definitely a line crosser. He got guts too push things and eventually that removes drama around those minority groups just like some people are saying in this thread. In the long run the effect is positive, in the short run a select few will be offended.


westerners like to think no-one should be inmune when in point of fact they also have their taboo subjects. i'd like to see how people here would react if a cambridge-educated arab would start satirizing the relatives of the deceased of september 11th. or if an iranian comedian would crack a joke about the holocaust. in places like germany they would even send him to jail for that.

it's real easy to talk about free speech when white people are the ones setting the rules of what should be free and what shouldn't.

abraxas21
03-05-2012, 05:47 PM
Like someone else said, just because he's a racist doesn't stop him from being funny for the masses. Jokes involving handicapped children in cages, paedophilia and incest in rural communities/developing countries, and a guy saying 'sexy time' in a foreign accent have entertained people for thousands of years

Do we watch comedy to buttress our value systems or to reinforce our prejudices? People in Britain love Borat because he makes fun of Americans (the low hanging fruit type of American) but also because the humour is slightly uncomfortable and cringeworthy- is incest funny or horrific, is a Jew playing an anti semite hilarious and insightful or creepy and self indulgent, are depictions of backward village culture a joke aimed at rustics across the world or just Eastern Europeans/Central Asians? Is a man putting on an accent funny because he's mocking a stereotype or because he's using the stereotype to fool people? And so on; the joke is in the ambiguity. And this is not annihilated by Cohen's own (unconscious?) racism.

couldn't have said it better myself.

buddyholly
03-05-2012, 07:07 PM
That wasn't funny.

Topspindoctor
03-06-2012, 02:30 AM
Here's a guy who has made a living off satirizing poor peoples, reviving the oldest and crudest homophobic and racial stereotypes about blacks, the roma, eastern europe in general and even the jews themselves.

now, his new movie 'The Dictator' is clearly aimed at the Arabs. i wonder if he is going to portray a balanced picture because people like him fuel the suspicion that many people are motivated by sectarianism than anything else.

his jokes are neither funny or clever. i remember when i watched borat i was just disgusted by him. he's just a asshole deriding others and selling tickets because of it.

Time to grow a thicker skin, little girl. Plus sterotypes are there for a reason - there is always some truth to them.

Topspindoctor
03-06-2012, 02:43 AM
right on, mate. let's go beat some abbos

:haha: I see you haven't changed man. Still the same old whiner.

abraxas21
03-06-2012, 12:58 PM
i had actually deleted that but you still catched it...

Filo V.
03-06-2012, 01:46 PM
Why do people make statements such as "grow a thicker skin" as if being sensitive is a bad thing? Especially sensitive towards real world issues people take for granted and see as a joke, a fact that people like Cohen certainly aren't helping.

Topspindoctor
03-06-2012, 02:22 PM
Why do people make statements such as "grow a thicker skin" as if being sensitive is a bad thing? Especially sensitive towards real world issues people take for granted and see as a joke, a fact that people like Cohen certainly aren't helping.

Being sensitive to trivial issues like some comedian trying to be
controversial and non PC shows weakness. I despise weak people
who constantly stir up shitstorms over nothing. The world has much
bigger problems to address than feelings of a bunch of butthurt individuals. We are living on an overpopulated world with rapidly dwindling resources and all people think about is how not to hurt someone's feelings over shit that will be forgotten in 100 years.

BroTree123
03-06-2012, 02:24 PM
Being sensitive to trivial issues like some comedian trying to be
controversial and non PC shows weakness. I despise weak people
who constantly stir up shitstorms over nothing. The world has much
bigger problems to address than feelings of a bunch of butthurt individuals. We are living on an overpopulated world with rapidly dwindling resources and all people think about is how not to hurt someone's feelings over shit that will be forgotten in 100 years.

:bowdown:.

Shinoj
03-06-2012, 02:33 PM
Topspin Doc has followed a Gluten Free Diet in his off season and is taking MTF by storm.. I must confess.

Filo V.
03-06-2012, 03:04 PM
Being sensitive to trivial issues like some comedian trying to be
controversial and non PC shows weakness. I despise weak people
who constantly stir up shitstorms over nothing. The world has much
bigger problems to address than feelings of a bunch of butthurt individuals. We are living on an overpopulated world with rapidly dwindling resources and all people think about is how not to hurt someone's feelings over shit that will be forgotten in 100 years.I said nothing about peoples' feelings, I said trivializing REAL issues is actually stirring up shit. There wouldn't be any complaints in the first place if people wouldn't trivialize real life concerns, concerns that affect us all. Like the fact we are in an overpopulated world with dwindling resources. Which countries do you think that affect the most? Not Australia. No, it's those same Middle Eastern and African countries people like Sacha Baron Cohen manipulate for his comedy.

out_here_grindin
03-06-2012, 03:08 PM
Time to grow a thicker skin, little girl. Plus sterotypes are there for a reason - there is always some truth to them.

its called mental filtering. You see what you want, filling the stereotypes.

Shinoj
03-06-2012, 03:41 PM
Humor is the way of saying to that Arabic part of the World .. That you are Archaic. Much of the world Ridicules you for your uptight behavior. Cohen in that way is a legend

abraxas21
03-06-2012, 05:51 PM
Being sensitive to trivial issues like some comedian trying to be
controversial and non PC shows weakness. I despise weak people
who constantly stir up shitstorms over nothing. The world has much
bigger problems to address than feelings of a bunch of butthurt individuals. We are living on an overpopulated world with rapidly dwindling resources and all people think about is how not to hurt someone's feelings over shit that will be forgotten in 100 years.

never thought of it that way. guess that makes it so much better... :facepalm:

Topspindoctor
03-07-2012, 03:38 AM
I said nothing about peoples' feelings, I said trivializing REAL issues is actually stirring up shit. There wouldn't be any complaints in the first place if people wouldn't trivialize real life concerns, concerns that affect us all. Like the fact we are in an overpopulated world with dwindling resources. Which countries do you think that affect the most? Not Australia. No, it's those same Middle Eastern and African countries people like Sacha Baron Cohen manipulate for his comedy.

...And most people who complain about it are people who are well off and living in 1st world countries. Do you think people who are starving give a damn about some western comedian cracking jokes at their expense? No, they are trying to feed their kids and survive, they don't have TVs or internet. They have nothing. The most loudmouthed and vocal crowd comes from people who have plenty of resources and want to appear concerned for someone's feelings because someone made a politically incorrect joke.

If they were more concerned, they'd stop the fake concern and PC bullshit and actually open their wallets...but of course feigning fake outrage over trivial (yes, those issues are so ridiculously trivial, it's hilarious) issues is much easier and most important of all, it's free.

fast_clay
03-07-2012, 03:42 AM
ok, well let's have a look at the central pisstake in borat... and, you'll find the kazakh president was massively pissed about borat's portrayal of his country... wild he was... wanted answers...

months down the track he has lightened up, got the joke and is singing cohen's praises... couldn't get enough of that wonderful exposure...

that's how its done

Johnny Groove
03-07-2012, 03:43 AM
Topspindoc on fire.

BroTree123
03-07-2012, 03:49 AM
...And most people who complain about it are people who are well off and living in 1st world countries. Do you think people who are starving give a damn about some western comedian cracking jokes at their expense? No, they are trying to feed their kids and survive, they don't have TVs or internet. They have nothing. The most loudmouthed and vocal crowd comes from people who have plenty of resources and want to appear concerned for someone's feelings because someone made a politically incorrect joke.

If they were more concerned, they'd stop the fake concern and PC bullshit and actually open their wallets...but of course feigning fake outrage over trivial (yes, those issues are so ridiculously trivial, it's hilarious) issues is much easier and most important of all, it's free.

GOATspindoc owning Filo V. A thing of beauty.

fast_clay
03-07-2012, 03:55 AM
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/patma2003/si4.gifbogans http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/patma2003/gurn.gif

Filo V.
03-07-2012, 04:05 AM
...And most people who complain about it are people who are well off and living in 1st world countries. Do you think people who are starving give a damn about some western comedian cracking jokes at their expense? No, they are trying to feed their kids and survive, they don't have TVs or internet. They have nothing. The most loudmouthed and vocal crowd comes from people who have plenty of resources and want to appear concerned for someone's feelings because someone made a politically incorrect joke.Thanks for making my point. First of all, you're right, most people who complain are from first world countries. Here's where you fail, though. These people, at least some of them, are actually, you know, concerned about the world as a whole. And actually try to give back to the world as a whole beyond their 1st world enclaves. When you have people like the Cohen douche MAKING A JOKE of serious issues like, as you put it, a fucking lack of food and internet, shit we take for granted DAILY, what do you think that is accomplishing? Beyond desensitizing people to the realities these people face? Because it's not like most are going to give 2 shits about the woman with 5 kids and no father who can barely feed herself, let alone her children. No, they're gonna be laughing, because that's all people like Cohen are concerned about. THEIR bottom line and people watching their shit and laughing.

People like YOU call it whining when, guess what, this shit IS happening and it is real. Some people actually are trying to make a difference and you call it whining because, yeah, we shouldn't actually care about these people, I guess. It's not even about a western comedian cracking jokes. It's about principle.........and more than that. It's about shining a real life on a real problem and the reality is, people like you and I CAN make a difference. People living in Australia and America can make a difference. But all you care about is having a laugh at the expense of people who have, as you so expertly put it, absolutely nothing. That's bullshit, and that's why I think people who like Sacha Baron Cohen are mostly douchebags who love a douchebag.

If they were more concerned, they'd stop the fake concern and PC bullshit and actually open their wallets...but of course feigning fake outrage over trivial (yes, those issues are so ridiculously trivial, it's hilarious) issues is much easier and most important of all, it's free.That's true, but you don't know how many of these people are not "opening up their wallets", which BTW, it takes A LOT more than money to build a country from the dirt up. It's not all about money. Emotional support DOES make a difference. People in these horrific living conditions understanding there are people out there who do care, makes a difference. You couldn't care LESS so why are you even arguing that point? You don't give a fuck about these people. Come off it.

Filo V.
03-07-2012, 04:06 AM
Douchebags will support douchebags. All that has to be said about this at the end of the day.

Topspindoctor
03-07-2012, 04:14 AM
Hey FiloV. Have you ever listened to a song by Tool, "Vicarious"? If not, listen to it. That is pretty much perfect description of humanity. We are animals with intelligence trying to cover up our reptilian nature by pretending to care about someone 1000 miles away. In the end, subconsciously it's all about your own survival.

Filo V.
03-07-2012, 04:31 AM
You can care about your own survival while at the same time doing your part to make the world a better place, for yourself (obviously), and for others as well.

abraxas21
03-07-2012, 04:37 AM
Topspindoc on fire.

GOATspindoc owning Filo V. A thing of beauty.

somehow the fact that you 2 are supporting TC makes me feel even more certain about my beliefs here

Shinoj
03-07-2012, 04:40 AM
Hey Abraxas if you are so concerned about the poor conditions of these countries why don't you go and Join some NGO instead of rambling about it on the Internet. In case if you have already done then Respect to you and if you havent then WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU WAITING FOR?

abraxas21
03-07-2012, 04:46 AM
Hey Abraxas if you are so concerned about the poor conditions of these countries why don't you go and Join some NGO instead of rambling about it on the Internet. In case if you have already done then Respect to you and if you havent then WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU WAITING FOR?

calm down, son. theres no need to SHOUT. turning caps off, im actually not quite sure how this suggestion relates to what i'm saying.

i don't criticize cohen or anyone really for not helping the third world. i criticize him primarely for being and asshole and secondly for being unfunny.

That said, i actually live in a relatively poor nation. i have no need for lectures coming from a frenchie, but thanks anyway

abraxas21
03-07-2012, 04:56 AM
Thanks for making my point. First of all, you're right, most people who complain are from first world countries. Here's where you fail, though. These people, at least some of them, are actually, you know, concerned about the world as a whole. And actually try to give back to the world as a whole beyond their 1st world enclaves. When you have people like the Cohen douche MAKING A JOKE of serious issues like, as you put it, a fucking lack of food and internet, shit we take for granted DAILY, what do you think that is accomplishing? Beyond desensitizing people to the realities these people face? Because it's not like most are going to give 2 shits about the woman with 5 kids and no father who can barely feed herself, let alone her children. No, they're gonna be laughing, because that's all people like Cohen are concerned about. THEIR bottom line and people watching their shit and laughing.

People like YOU call it whining when, guess what, this shit IS happening and it is real. Some people actually are trying to make a difference and you call it whining because, yeah, we shouldn't actually care about these people, I guess. It's not even about a western comedian cracking jokes. It's about principle.........and more than that. It's about shining a real life on a real problem and the reality is, people like you and I CAN make a difference. People living in Australia and America can make a difference. But all you care about is having a laugh at the expense of people who have, as you so expertly put it, absolutely nothing. That's bullshit, and that's why I think people who like Sacha Baron Cohen are mostly douchebags who love a douchebag.

That's true, but you don't know how many of these people are not "opening up their wallets", which BTW, it takes A LOT more than money to build a country from the dirt up. It's not all about money. Emotional support DOES make a difference. People in these horrific living conditions understanding there are people out there who do care, makes a difference. You couldn't care LESS so why are you even arguing that point? You don't give a fuck about these people. Come off it.

i don't really have a problem with jokes regarding sensitive issues. hell, just a few days ago i was cracking jokes about death and genoicide in armenia with a dude of amermenian descent i know. we both laughed... probly because have a bit of a cynical sense of humour to begin with.

my prob with cohen is the way he jokes about sensitive matters and mostly the way he mocks people who haven't done anything to receive the bad rep. there are also stereotypes. for example, even though people naively think that comedians arent to be taken seriously, i'm sure that a lot of people who watched borat ended up thinking that the roma disliked the jews when in point of fact they have nothing against them.

the easy thing about minority stereotypes is that most people don't know much about them so they're quite handeable. in borat cohen had no problem creating negative associations with nations nobody knows much about

Shinoj
03-07-2012, 05:06 AM
Those stereotypes which he is making fun of are irrational and quirky. And in a way a sizeable section of the population disagree with those practices and when somebody makes fun of them in an original way they laugh over it. What is wrong with that.

About his new movie Dictator. You dont have to live like a fuckin Millionaire when half of your country is struggling to make ends meet, woman are struggling to get an equal footing to men, Human rights are being kicked for fun,somebody opposing your principles are killed and dug over in graves.I figure that he is referring to Libya and few other Arab Nations. And if he is making fun of those things i don't see any reason for not laughing over it.

And Besides i found his humor extremely original and funny.

abraxas21
03-07-2012, 05:23 AM
i can assure you with total certainty that borat wouldnt have been well received in france if the main character was french and made nasty associations about your country. after all, would you like your fellow citizens associated with a urine-drinking, wife-beating, cow-punching, sister-fucking, prostitute-ridden, anti-Semitic nation?

then again, it's much easier to pick a country like kazakhstan: a majority muslim nation which name most westerners cant even pronounce, much less talk much about their rituals, beliefs or costums. because of it, creating a nasty image isn't hard. still at the end of the day most viewers, i like to assume, will think that at least some of it is in jest and that we shouldnt take borat's word for granted. then again, theres always something that remains.

i could make the same case for the roma. in that regard it is also quite humorous how borat uses the gipsies' alleged racism towards the jews (which is again merely cohen's own invetion) in his attempt to show how ridiculous anti-semitism is and also by proximity (whether it was cohen's intention or not) how ridiculous the roma are. needless to say, i don't apprecciate that type of humour at all. you don't mock one group's image in order to make a point about another one. especially when the former is much more vulnerable and attacked than the later.

at the end, guys like cohen exploit the latent and repressed need for racism in society. like someone said it, people have been laughing about jokes about prostitution, low intelligence, death and incest in poorer countries for ages and that hasn't changed to this day. the main difference is that nowadays in the first world is not as acceptable as in the past to crack those jokes out loud (unless of course you're living in australia or in some southern rural community in the US). with that in mind, sacha baron cohen managed to revive precisely that type of humour under the guise of reverse racism in order to make it seem acceptable. thus, at the end of the day it becomes rather blurry to assert whether the viewers are laughing about the sterotypes associated to the minorities in question or about the particular behaviours that come with them. thinking about it, there doesn't seem to be much of a difference at all.

Shinoj
03-07-2012, 05:57 AM
So what if he made any crude reference to French. I hardly bother about it. I do think French are in some way Stuck up about themselves. Plus i am not even a French Native. In General i do not like people or a country too full of themselves and if somebody is making fun of that aspect i do not oppose it.

Plus I would only like to speak for myself. I would see Borat time and again. I liked it very much. So you could say that i am the typical specimen who made Borat the famous personality that he is today. And i , let me emphasize on it this, I do not have any prejudice or a negative connotation about Kazakhistan after watching that because i know that some of the things depicted in that movie he must have blown it out of proportion a bit. But he just did to make people laugh. You have to remember the context in which these things are shown.

I would tell you a scenario if James Cameron made a movie about Americans catching a terrorist and in that they show a Pakistani president saying that he openly supports Terrorists or a Pakistani saying he supports terrorist. To me that would be offensive because the Context Obviously is not Humor and it deals with some Serious International Issues.

tripwires
03-07-2012, 06:25 AM
at the end, guys like cohen exploit the latent and repressed need for racism in society. like someone said it, people have been laughing about jokes about prostitution, low intelligence, death and incest in poorer countries for ages and that hasn't changed to this day. the main difference is that nowadays in the first world is not as acceptable as in the past to crack those jokes out loud (unless of course you're living in australia or in some southern rural community in the US). with that in mind, sacha baron cohen managed to revive precisely that type of humour under the guise of reverse racism in order to make it seem acceptable. thus, at the end of the day it becomes rather blurry to assert whether the viewers are laughing about the sterotypes associated to the minorities in question or about the particular behaviours that come with them. thinking about it, there doesn't seem to be much of a difference at all.

:superlol:

buddyholly
03-07-2012, 12:04 PM
I would tell you a scenario if James Cameron made a movie about Americans catching a terrorist and in that they show a Pakistani president saying that he openly supports Terrorists or a Pakistani saying he supports terrorist. To me that would be offensive because the Context Obviously is not Humor and it deals with some Serious International Issues.

Isn't that more or less what happened recently? I am sure there is a movie in the making somewhere. I hope it is a comedy. "Carry On Even Further Up The Khyber,'' or something like that. Just not by James Cameron, though.

(You need to do some work on when to use capitals.)

buddyholly
03-07-2012, 12:10 PM
i don't really have a problem with jokes regarding sensitive issues. hell, just a few days ago i was cracking jokes about death and genoicide in armenia with a dude of amermenian descent i know. we both laughed... probly because have a bit of a cynical sense of humour to begin with.



Well hell, son, aren't you just the cutest little thing, giggling like a schoolgirl over Armenian genocide?

Some misguided people might rush in and start a thread labelling you an asshole, but we know different.

fast_clay
03-07-2012, 01:21 PM
hell, just a few days ago i was cracking jokes about death and genoicide in armenia with a dude of amermenian descent i know. we both laughed...


:speakles:

buddyholly
03-07-2012, 01:40 PM
i don't really have a problem with jokes regarding sensitive issues. hell, just a few days ago i was cracking jokes about death and genoicide in armenia with a dude of amermenian descent i know. we both laughed... probly because have a bit of a cynical sense of humour to begin with.



We are really so much alike. When I was working in Latin America i had such fun joshing with my Argentinian colleagues the day the Belgrano was sunk. And I don't have to tell you the fun we had the day Allende came down. I invented a new verb that day ''all-ended''

abraxas21
03-07-2012, 02:03 PM
We are really so much alike. When I was working in Latin America i had such fun joshing with my Argentinian colleagues the day the Belgrano was sunk. And I don't have to tell you the fun we had the day Allende came down. I invented a new verb that day ''all-ended''

i can actually easily imagine you thinking about little unions jacks waving in your head as you heard dear maggie's war speeches in that annoying accent of hers.

abraxas21
03-07-2012, 02:07 PM
Well hell, son, aren't you just the cutest little thing, giggling like a schoolgirl over Armenian genocide?

Some misguided people might rush in and start a thread labelling you an asshole, but we know different.

you don't even know how it was so how can you even pass a judgement? truth be told, we didn't laugh at the armenians or the ones who died (as cynical as we are, we ain't that crass) but simply about the current state of affairs in which turkey refuses to acknowledge the genocide and that fact that to this day many people of armenian descent are so sensitive about it, which of course is very understandable.

buddyholly
03-07-2012, 02:40 PM
you don't even know how it was so how can you even pass a judgement? truth be told, we didn't laugh at the armenians or the ones who died (as cynical as we are, we ain't that crass) but simply about the current state of affairs in which turkey refuses to acknowledge the genocide and that fact that to this day many people of armenian descent are so sensitive about it, which of course is very understandable.

Do all the spinning you like. But you said you originally were joking about the deaths of Armenians, not the Turkish government.

Don't bother with your, "I won't bother to try to explain what I said, it is all there in my post.'' We already automatically attach that disclaimer to all your posts.

But I have an idea. Why not just retell the jokes here and let us all in on the fun?

BroTree123
03-07-2012, 02:50 PM
Do all the spinning you like. But you said you originally were joking about the deaths of Armenians, not the Turkish government.

Don't bother with your, "I won't bother to try to explain what I said, it is all there in my post.'' We already automatically attach that disclaimer to all your posts.

But I have an idea. Why not just retell the jokes here and let us all in on the fun?

♫♫ Oh, Oh, and I'm Mary Tyler Moore.....I don't care what they say 'bout us anyway....I don't care about that... ♫♫

abraxas21
03-07-2012, 03:07 PM
Do all the spinning you like. But you said you originally were joking about the deaths of Armenians, not the Turkish government.

Don't bother with your, "I won't bother to try to explain what I said, it is all there in my post.'' We already automatically attach that disclaimer to all your posts.

But I have an idea. Why not just retell the jokes here and let us all in on the fun?

:lol:

you're funny. to think that i owe you an explanation over a real life conversation you naturally know virtually nothing about... i'll let you imagine how it was :yeah:

Har-Tru
03-07-2012, 04:25 PM
:lol:

you're funny. to think that i owe you an explanation over a real life conversation you naturally know virtually nothing about... i'll let you imagine how it was :yeah:

Wow, you actually went ahead and said it one more time. :lol:

buddyholly
03-07-2012, 04:32 PM
i don't really have a problem with jokes regarding sensitive issues. hell, just a few days ago i was cracking jokes about death and genoicide in armenia with a dude of amermenian descent i know. we both laughed... probly because have a bit of a cynical sense of humour to begin with.



For some reason I can't quite put my finger on, I imagine you were ''cracking jokes about death and genocide in Armenia''.

Oh wait.................., I'm not imagining it. I'm quoting your actual words.

abraxas21
03-07-2012, 06:15 PM
For some reason I can't quite put my finger on, I imagine you were ''cracking jokes about death and genocide in Armenia''.

Oh wait.................., I'm not imagining it. I'm quoting your actual words.

and yet you still have no clue how it was, which is precisely my point

but feel free to carry on. i'd love to read your theories

Johnny Groove
03-07-2012, 06:37 PM
Abraxas = Condescending Wonka

http://i.qkme.me/35dhwf.jpg

http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/006/58d/9c2/resized/creepy-willy-wonka-meme-generator-i-m-condescending-that-means-i-talk-down-to-you-19e0d5.jpg

abraxas21
03-07-2012, 07:29 PM
are cohen's portrayals of kazakhstan, and the other countries which he stereotypes, racist and a way of pandering to middleclass English and American audiences by showing what strange people in backward central asian countries are like or simply a way to ridicule country-like surroundings in general?

and was Ali G a parody of a white man pretending to be black (as Cohen's defenders claim) or simply a parody of a black man? (as his critics claimed)?

it is in this ambiguity where cohen can cater to both racists and assholes at the same time. after all, it wouldn't be the first time that an englishman mocks the ways of the "backwards" eastern europeans or that a middle class american living in the suburbs gets to laugh about the muslims in foreign lands or even the southern rednecks in their own nation (not that this group doesn't deserve to be ridiculed btw).

that said, it's like i've said. people get to laugh about jokes about small distant nations and segregated communities all the time but they wouldn't like it that much if the jokes was on them. even on MTF i can see examples of this. i remember a post made by Mjau! about spain which presented the country as a pretty backwards place but in a somewhat funny way. it didn't take long before a bunch of spanish posters were outright mad about it and the mods ended up deleting the post at the end. And when i posted a thread mocking canada's inferiority complex towards the USA, the mods took it away in less than a day. So you see, it's always funny to laugh at someone else's expenses but no-one likes it when the joke is on them. hypocritical westerners could learn to respect that instead of insisting that they'll play it cool.

abraxas21
03-07-2012, 07:37 PM
all that said, the USA is probly the most secure country on earth when it comes about self-mocking. i think that kind of confidence comes from being the main superpower for such a long time.

you wouldn't find that type of confidence anywhere in europe, especially not in england, a country where many are still butthurt about their island not being the land that rules all lands above anymore.

Har-Tru
03-07-2012, 08:48 PM
are cohen's portrayals of kazakhstan, and the other countries which he stereotypes, racist and a way of pandering to middleclass English and American audiences by showing what strange people in backward central asian countries are like or simply a way to ridicule country-like surroundings in general?

You don't have a clue, do you? He is having a go at the west, he's mocking the hypocrisy of today's political correctness, the underlying racism and discrimination that is still to be found in western countries, the condescending dishonesty, the widespread ignorance... how is this not crystal clear??

and was Ali G a parody of a white man pretending to be black (as Cohen's defenders claim) or simply a parody of a black man? (as his critics claimed)?

Those questions are irrelevant... Ali G is primarily not about Ali G. In any case, what makes you think it has anything to do with race? Ali G is an ignorant hip-hop gangsta, those types are cross-race.

it is in this ambiguity where cohen can cater to both racists and assholes at the same time. after all, it wouldn't be the first time that an englishman mocks the ways of the "backwards" eastern europeans or that a middle class american living in the suburbs gets to laugh about the muslims in foreign lands or even the southern rednecks in their own nation (not that this group doesn't deserve to be ridiculed btw).

But the others don't, right?

that said, it's like i've said. people get to laugh about jokes about small distant nations and segregated communities all the time but they wouldn't like it that much if the jokes was on them. even on MTF i can see examples of this. i remember a post made by Mjau! about spain which presented the country as a pretty backwards place but in a somewhat funny way. it didn't take long before a bunch of spanish posters were outright mad about it and the mods ended up deleting the post at the end. And when i posted a thread mocking canada's inferiority complex towards the USA, the mods took it away in less than a day. So you see, it's always funny to laugh at someone else's expenses but no-one likes it when the joke is on them. hypocritical westerners could learn to respect that instead of insisting that they'll play it cool.

Spain is OBVIOUSLY backwards and underdeveloped by comparison with Sweden as mjau said no matter what anybody says. She could have chosen better arguments to prove her point though than the colour of houses and faucets.

It's a misleading parallelism though, mjau was directly having a go at Spain while Cohen's focus is not the criticism of Kazakhstan, rappers or homosexuals.

Har-Tru
03-07-2012, 08:57 PM
all that said, the USA is probly the most secure country on earth when it comes about self-mocking. i think that kind of confidence comes from being the main superpower for such a long time.

you wouldn't find that type of confidence anywhere in europe, especially not in england, a country where many are still butthurt about their island not being the land that rules all lands above anymore.

Are you serious? Do you truly believe what you write??

It's as if you're trying hard to say the most ridiculous thing possible.

buddyholly
03-07-2012, 09:19 PM
you wouldn't find that type of confidence anywhere in europe, especially not in england, a country where many are still butthurt about their island not being the land that rules all lands above anymore.

You just keep on being ridiculous. Nobody mocks themselves like the English. Go watch a few Monty Python shows.

buddyholly
03-07-2012, 09:27 PM
and yet you still have no clue how it was, which is precisely my point

but feel free to carry on. i'd love to read your theories

Here we are, back on your old whine of how nobody really knows what you meant. You are fooling no-one.

But since you asked, my theory is that having received so much flak about being a whining idiot, you decided to try and show you were really just one of the lads, by telling an anecdote about how you appreciate a good laugh yourself, on a variety of topics.
Unfortunately you chose an anecdote that indicated the opposite of everything you had been whining about in the beginning of the thread.

Then, to try and deflect attention away from this embarrassing turn of events, a couple of posts later you tried to write a lengthy ''intellectual'' analysis of the topic. Too late. I can read you like a book - and it's a comic book.

abraxas21
03-07-2012, 09:32 PM
You don't have a clue, do you? He is having a go at the west, he's mocking the hypocrisy of today's political correctness, the underlying racism and discrimination that is still to be found in western countries, the condescending dishonesty, the widespread ignorance... how is this not crystal clear??

If that's so, how come the kasakhs and the roma were offended by a film like borat? maybe they're just idiots...

as for me, i'd other if the likes of cohen throughout the world would refrain from negatively sterotyping me or my country in order to make a point. then again, i wouldn't even say thats cohen's real intention at all. he actually likes playing with the ambiguity in his characterizations.

buddyholly
03-07-2012, 09:34 PM
it is in this ambiguity where cohen can cater to both racists and assholes at the same time. after all, it wouldn't be the first time that an englishman mocks the ways of the "backwards" eastern europeans or that a middle class american living in the suburbs gets to laugh about the muslims in foreign lands or even the southern rednecks in their own nation (not that this group doesn't deserve to be ridiculed btw).



So a group of poor, uneducated Eastern Europeans should be immune from mockery, while a group of poor, uneducated Americans deserves to be subjected to mockery? Is this another one of your posts where I am completely misinterpreting the meaning that is so clear to everyone else?

Don't you see that you, yourself, are the kind of fool that Sacha Cohen is mocking? Maybe you do, and that would explain why you feel so uneasy about him.

abraxas21
03-07-2012, 09:35 PM
Are you serious? Do you truly believe what you write??

It's as if you're trying hard to say the most ridiculous thing possible.

actually that was just to troll BH. he's originally from northern ireland (as you might know) but an english tard he is.

abraxas21
03-07-2012, 09:38 PM
So a group of poor, uneducated Eastern Europeans should be immune from mockery, while a group of poor, uneducated Americans deserves to be subjected to mockery? Is this another one of your posts where I am completely misinterpreting the meaning that is so clear to everyone else?

Don't you see that you, yourself, are the kind of fool that Sacha Cohen is mocking? Maybe you do, and that would explain why you feel so uneasy about him.

rednecks don't deserve to be ridiculed for their poverty or education, they deserve to ridiculed for their racism and bigotry (actually, the current urban meaning of the redneck sterotype is more defined by bigotry than their socio-economical condition. because of that, it's even said that a millionaire like kid rock is a redneck, a tag that he rightly deserves)

abraxas21
03-07-2012, 09:41 PM
Here we are, back on your old whine of how nobody really knows what you meant. You are fooling no-one.

But since you asked, my theory is that having received so much flak about being a whining idiot, you decided to try and show you were really just one of the lads, by telling an anecdote about how you appreciate a good laugh yourself, on a variety of topics.
Unfortunately you chose an anecdote that indicated the opposite of everything you had been whining about in the beginning of the thread.

Then, to try and deflect attention away from this embarrassing turn of events, a couple of posts later you tried to write a lengthy ''intellectual'' analysis of the topic. Too late. I can read you like a book - and it's a comic book.

that's a cool story, bro. then again, you're trying to attack me because of a so called anecdote you don't even know how it was. that would akin to asserting that you know a news story merely because you read the title in a mag.

it just doesn't work that way, pal.

fast_clay
03-08-2012, 12:03 AM
the english are so self-depricating it is not even up for argument... i've lived in a few countries, and there is no way the english are not comfortable about ripping the piss on themselves - especially when an aussie says 'don't worry, you'll always have 1966' at the pub after yet another world cup loss - they can take it, and they give it back well... they've long accepted how shit they are in comparison with once upon a time... i'd go as far to say that cohen's humour was forged by the pisstake of his own during the ali g show...

buddyholly
03-08-2012, 03:15 AM
actually that was just to troll BH. he's originally from northern ireland (as you might know) but an english tard he is.

That is a real stretch. Your most desperate so far. So you wrote a whole post about the English just to goad me? I'm so flattered.
Seems you spend all your time now trying to weasel out of responsibility for your idiotic posts.

I am sure the Brit posters that have been verbally abusing me here for years will be amused by yet another example of your idiocy.

buddyholly
03-08-2012, 03:18 AM
that's a cool story, bro. then again, you're trying to attack me because of a so called anecdote you don't even know how it was. that would akin to asserting that you know a news story merely because you read the title in a mag.

it just doesn't work that way, pal.

So just come clean and tell us what was the Armenian joke that you ''cracked''. We all like a laugh. I mean if you are ashamed to tell us what the joke was, why did you even boast that you were joking about Armenian genocide?

buddyholly
03-08-2012, 03:24 AM
rednecks don't deserve to be ridiculed for their poverty or education, they deserve to ridiculed for their racism and bigotry (actually, the current urban meaning of the redneck sterotype is more defined by bigotry than their socio-economical condition. because of that, it's even said that a millionaire like kid rock is a redneck, a tag that he rightly deserves)

You probably know nothing about Kid Rock other than that he sang for Romney.

Your approach is akin to me saying that any Chilean that ever had a good word to say about Allende is an ignorant peasant. No reasoning necessary. He just must be an ignorant peasant. Case closed.

And I would wager that the extent of your knowledge of the bigotry and racism of Kazahkstanis is a big fat zero.

abraxas21
03-08-2012, 05:44 PM
That is a real stretch. Your most desperate so far. So you wrote a whole post about the English just to goad me? I'm so flattered.

well, coming from the guy who started a thread about chile's IQ level because of me, i must say i'm quite flattered myself so i wanted to give some of it back in return. it wasn't a "whole post" by the way. just a line in it.


Seems you spend all your time now trying to weasel out of responsibility for your idiotic posts.

I am sure the Brit posters that have been verbally abusing me here for years will be amused by yet another example of your idiocy.

i sense a somewhat angry tone in your speech, sir. maybe you should take a break... i think you need it

abraxas21
03-08-2012, 05:47 PM
So just come clean and tell us what was the Armenian joke that you ''cracked''. We all like a laugh. I mean if you are ashamed to tell us what the joke was, why did you even boast that you were joking about Armenian genocide?

come clean about what exactly? you're so absorved with that that you cannot see past your blinders. then you come acting as if i owe you some type of explanation over something you know virtually nothing about.

abraxas21
03-08-2012, 05:49 PM
You probably know nothing about Kid Rock other than that he sang for Romney.

Your approach is akin to me saying that any Chilean that ever had a good word to say about Allende is an ignorant peasant. No reasoning necessary. He just must be an ignorant peasant. Case closed.

And I would wager that the extent of your knowledge of the bigotry and racism of Kazahkstanis is a big fat zero.

likely this, probably that. let me know when you have an argument...

Har-Tru
03-08-2012, 08:10 PM
likely this, probably that. let me know when you have an argument...

When are you going to get tired of, as the internet saying goes, pwning yourself?

buddyholly
03-08-2012, 10:10 PM
Well, I can't put up much of an argument when you either just claim that you never said such a thing, old else claim that nobody understands you.

So, one last time. Are you man enough to tell us the Armenian genocide joke you cracked? Or are you coward enough to hide behind yet another excuse?

It just seems strange to me how you boast that jokes can be OK on sensitive topics when you make them, but now seem to think we are not able to share in the laughs.

buddyholly
03-08-2012, 10:27 PM
come clean about what exactly? you're so absorved with that that you cannot see past your blinders. then you come acting as if i owe you some type of explanation over something you know virtually nothing about.

Come clean exactly about the Armenian genocide joke that you claim to have cracked. A simple request.

Your desperate explanation is that, since you won't repeat it, I therefore know virtually nothing about it and so I should not ask for an explanation of something I know nothing about. I suspect you know how ridiculous you already sound, but don't see any alternative but to just try and stonewall this one out.

abraxas21
03-09-2012, 01:39 AM
When are you going to get tired of, as the internet saying goes, pwning yourself?

coming from you, i take that as a high compliment. as i might have told you long before this thread, i think you're one of the biggest clowns on this forum.

i always know i'm on a good path when people like you disagree with what i say. :yeah:

abraxas21
03-09-2012, 01:44 AM
Well, I can't put up much of an argument when you either just claim that you never said such a thing, old else claim that nobody understands you.

i haven't claimed any of those things actually. as i've told you many times, your reading comprehension needs some work.

So, one last time. Are you man enough to tell us the Armenian genocide joke you cracked? Or are you coward enough to hide behind yet another excuse?

you know what's funny? it seems like a such a big deal to you that i actually enjoy the image in my head about you trying to figure out what exactly i said. i'd actually have no problem talking about it on this thread but your insistence is so endearingly histerical that i think i'll just let you make your own conjectures here. That much will keep the thread alive, at least.

Topspindoctor
03-09-2012, 01:47 AM
you might think that i'm too serious or too touchy but i can assure you that's not the case. then again, if the type of humour that appeals you and other westerners or even western-wannabes is the type in which a guy makes fun of small communities and peoples, then by all means do laugh. i rather watch something else. thank you.

Do you realize that hardly anyone cares? You are a huge, annoying drama queen, constantly bitching about "imperialism" and "western countries" because your own country is too weak or too lazy to work for a better place in the world. I wish you were my lawn, you're so emo you would cut yourself and save me the effort.

abraxas21
03-09-2012, 01:50 AM
Do you realize that hardly anyone cares? You are a huge, annoying drama queen, constantly bitching about "imperialism" and "western countries" because your own country is too weak or too lazy to work for a better place in the world. I wish you were my lawn, you're so emo you would cut yourself and save me the effort.

you know something? the only somewhat interesting/funny comment in that post was the last line.

unsurprisingly enough, it evidently didn't come from your mind.

http://www.funnychill.com/files/funny-pictures/wish-my-lawn-was-emo.jpg

Topspindoctor
03-09-2012, 01:55 AM
It's true, whether my own idea or not :shrug:

You are so whiny, it makes my head hurt.

abraxas21
03-09-2012, 01:58 AM
It's true, whether my own idea or not :shrug:

You are so whiny, it makes my head hurt.

now that's a line i'm pretty confident it came from you!

Topspindoctor
03-09-2012, 02:07 AM
You are so hilarious. It seems to me you're living in a world created by the hallucinogenic drugs you consume. Do you really think anyone gives a shit about your views about equality? No. This planet will always be dominated by some strong nation. Roman Empire, Britain, US, maybe China in the future. People like you will always live with illusions that everything should be equal and fair. That was never the case throughout human history. It's time to accept it, because you really do sound like a bitch with your long winded posts.

fast_clay
03-09-2012, 03:27 AM
THREAD STATUS: http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/patma2003/toilet.gif

buddyholly
03-09-2012, 03:37 AM
you know what's funny? it seems like a such a big deal to you that i actually enjoy the image in my head about you trying to figure out what exactly i said. i'd actually have no problem talking about it on this thread but your insistence is so endearingly histerical that i think i'll just let you make your own conjectures here. That much will keep the thread alive, at least.

OK, I withdraw from the thread. I have already exposed your cowardice to the limit. I don't care a whit what you may have said. I care more about showing what a liar you are.

You are now free talk about your cracking of Armenian genocide jokes. No more problem for you to hide behind.

You can even have the last word. You will inevitably just dig a bigger hole for yourself, anyway.

RagingLamb
05-24-2012, 09:09 PM
:worship:

Borat wasn't about 'cracking racist jokes'. Sacha Baron Cohen portrayed a person who was obviously a backward idiot. What was shocking was people's reactions, or lack thereof, when he did say racist things, such as when the people in the bar sang along to "throw the jew down the well".

That's where the racism came from, and that's what should have been offensive. Not Sacha Baron Cohen's silly character, but that people who come from a civilized country and clearly aren't in character, or clearly aren't backwards idiots could behave in such a racially insensitive way. That's what the movie was trying to do, to expose the latent racism that still exists in America. Even in Bruno, although the character was really over the top, the real homophobia came from people's reactions to Bruno, not Bruno himself.

I'm sorry if you didn't get that.

Anyhow, about the dictator, you haven't even seen the movie and you've already drawn premature conclusions. From the trailer, it seems like he's making fun of the brutal arab dictators of the middle east, such as ghadafi.

I don't see the racism in that.

O.k. saw the movie.

Not funny at all. The only good thing about it was that it only lasted about an hour and 20 min.

Still, I wouldn't call him an asshole for this. I would though, call him an asshole for the "terrorist" scene in Bruno. Here he is talking about it on letterman:

z3OWc4NKW04&feature=g-vrec

I only found out about this today, but here is a Time magazine piece about the supposed terrorist, Ayman Abu Aita, who is actually a supermarket owner in Bethlehem. Not a terrorist. A bit of a homophobe, yes, but definitely not a terrorist.

NmXuQOZd_qE&feature=fvwp

What Cohen did to this guy is pretty low.

I won't be watching any more of Cohen's movies.

rocketassist
05-24-2012, 09:18 PM
Cohen is a legend.

rocketassist
05-24-2012, 09:19 PM
BTW Chileans have valid reasons to dislike the US- they supported the coup that put Pinochet in charge.

Topspindoctor
05-25-2012, 12:22 AM
Cohen is a legend.

Exactly. Cohen is easily the best Brit comedian.

I love how he makes all the PC sissies so butthurt. Ali G Indahouse and Borat are two of the most hilarious movies I've ever seen. Trying to make time to go and see The Dictator. I've been told it's awesome.

Gagsquet
05-25-2012, 01:04 AM
Never seen these shitty movies. And never will.

RagingLamb
05-25-2012, 03:43 PM
Exactly. Cohen is easily the best Brit comedian.

I love how he makes all the PC sissies so butthurt. Ali G Indahouse and Borat are two of the most hilarious movies I've ever seen. Trying to make time to go and see The Dictator. I've been told it's awesome.

Don't waste your money. The movie isn't funny at all. he doesn't even maintain that accent for the whole thing. In some scenes it's there, some scenes not. It's like he's playing 2 different characters. Very inconsistent, and the jokes are just lame.

Kiedis
05-25-2012, 09:04 PM
Never seen these shitty movies. And never will.

How you can know they are shitty movies if you never seen it? :rolleyes:

Exactly. Cohen is easily the best Brit comedian.

I love how he makes all the PC sissies so butthurt. Ali G Indahouse and Borat are two of the most hilarious movies I've ever seen. Trying to make time to go and see The Dictator. I've been told it's awesome.

It's his worst film, IMO. He lost it.

Certinfy
05-25-2012, 10:50 PM
Proud to be living in the same borough he was born and lives in. :rocker2:

abraxas21
08-11-2012, 10:52 PM
i was watching some videos of the "comedian" sarah silverman and it was inevitable not to notice the similiarities in style with cohen. both are jews, both express coded racism and of course, both are total assholes.

i wonder how in such a race obsessed nation like the USA these acts are accepted... i guess the notion of reverse racism and the fact of belonging to a minority group descending from the holocaust gives some a free pass.

Tommy_Vercetti
08-11-2012, 11:39 PM
Sarah Silverman use to be somewhat funny. Although ass humor has always seemed incredibly stupid to me. She's become way too political in the several years and of course her "comedy" has really gone downhill as a result.

Fujee
08-12-2012, 01:26 AM
Lets agree to degree..

Kiedis
08-13-2012, 11:53 PM
Like I said previously, SBC is a kind of British Colbert. It seems he makes humour for bigots and he mocks of third world people and other races, but he really do is attacking in a subtle way the stablished powers, their contradictions and their hipocrisy

YhCC85cNLF8

Too much for this simpleton Chilean troll, I guess.

buddyholly
08-14-2012, 01:08 AM
I thought Borat would march with the athletes last night in his man thong.

The Prince
08-14-2012, 08:41 AM
Cohen should be knighted for services to comedy.

mike s.
08-16-2012, 01:49 AM
i was watching some videos of the "comedian" sarah silverman and it was inevitable not to notice the similiarities in style with cohen. both are jews, both express coded racism and of course, both are total assholes.

i wonder how in such a race obsessed nation like the USA these acts are accepted... i guess the notion of reverse racism and the fact of belonging to a minority group descending from the holocaust gives some a free pass.

You do know what satire is, right? :unsure:

I don't even think he's that funny but you are completely missing the point of his act if you think that it's about coded racism :lol: The guy is about exposing stereotypes and racism as ridiculous.

Quite frankly, the fact that he keeps mentioning the fact that he and Sarah Silverman are Jewish as if that has any relevance, makes me think someone else might be the one with the issue.

buddyholly
08-16-2012, 04:34 AM
i was watching some videos of the "comedian" sarah silverman and it was inevitable not to notice the similiarities in style with cohen. both are jews, both express coded racism and of course, both are total assholes.

i wonder how in such a race obsessed nation like the USA these acts are accepted... i guess the notion of reverse racism and the fact of belonging to a minority group descending from the holocaust gives some a free pass.

Most people, like me, had probably never given a millisecond's consideration of Cohen's or Silverman's ethnicity. Leave it to the race obsessed abraxas to claim that their ethnicity matters.

abraxas21
08-23-2012, 09:56 PM
Most people, like me, had probably never given a millisecond's consideration of Cohen's or Silverman's ethnicity. Leave it to the race obsessed abraxas to claim that their ethnicity matters.

it's evident that silverman's and cohen's ethnicity is important. in point of fact, they're able to do what they do precisely because they're jewish. do you think a non jew would be allowed by the powers that be to publicly make a stereotype out of their jewishness in order to make far worse stereotypes about other ethnic minorities and other social minority groups?

it would be funny and also ackward to see an arab pulling their own version of "bruno" (or whatever character he comes up next) against the jews and see how much the jews like it. of course, everyone likes to make a joke of others, but no-one likes to be in the bottom end of that joke. this is one of the reason why cohen sucks.

Topspindoctor
08-24-2012, 01:50 AM
Abraxas, stop being so sensitive and accept that some people simply don't give a fuck if they are made fun of. Cohen is a brilliant comedian that challenges today's modern thinking and laughs at political correctness. It's always fun to read the outraged articles about how "wrong" he is. At the end of the day, all he delivers is entertainment. Who gives a shit about butthurt individuals who try to demonize him?