WWW: Peak Gluten Free Nole That Cares Vs Peak Healthy Nadal? (Advanced) [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

WWW: Peak Gluten Free Nole That Cares Vs Peak Healthy Nadal? (Advanced)

BigJohn
02-15-2012, 01:22 AM
As we know, what we have now is the best level of tennis ever seen, the most magnificent shot making, variety, strategy, these guys have it all. But what would happen in a battle of the best of the best at their best?

It is widely regarded that Nole only loss in 2011 when he did not care (except of course the conspiracy at the FO that made him lose for being too well rested). Now sans gluten and egg enhanced, if he cares he wins.

But his opponent is nothing short of magnificent: the mighty Nadal has yet to be defeated (when healthy) (and his parents not separating).

They have both been baptized the something of Death by our resident diva. They have fans that combine the very best of the hysterical Beatles fangirls and the devotion and determination of Annie Wilkes.

What would be the outcome of a match between those two legends of the game? In this scenario, both are playing at their very best. Undefeated vs undefeated.

Though call.

abraxas21
02-15-2012, 01:35 AM
no one wins, obvs.

adje/vamos!

BigJohn
02-15-2012, 01:59 AM
Thank you for posting in the advanced thread.

v-money
02-15-2012, 02:01 AM
Too many thread options if you ask me.

Tennis wins or Humanity wins would be enough for poll options, really. And it should be one of those polls that you can pick multiple answers.

BigJohn
02-15-2012, 02:04 AM
WTF??

No whining about the poll.

v-money
02-15-2012, 02:08 AM
Fine, I'll just make my own version of the thread with better poll options.

BigJohn
02-15-2012, 02:09 AM
Fine, I'll just make my own version of the thread with better poll options.

1- I do not think that would be possible.

2- I would resent that.

fast_clay
02-15-2012, 02:11 AM
:confused: why isnt tomic in the poll...? i dont get it

MIMIC
02-15-2012, 03:15 AM
Why isn't BigJohn banned yet? :confused:

Smiling Buddha
02-15-2012, 03:19 AM
No option is necessary after the first.

BigJohn
02-15-2012, 03:58 AM
Why isn't BigJohn banned yet? :confused:

How is this thread bannable material in any way shape or form? Be on topic or butt out.

tripwires
02-15-2012, 04:06 AM
Where are the other 3 threads? Where's v-money's thread with "Tomic" as a poll option? :sad:

leng jai
02-15-2012, 04:50 AM
So the mods have given this thread the nod of approval by not deleting it?

GOAT modding as usual.

Ajde.

tripwires
02-15-2012, 05:00 AM
Why not? It's obviously a legitimate question. This could be the rivalry that would define tennis history. :hearts:

BigJohn
02-15-2012, 08:42 PM
Thanks to the mods for allowing this thread to be resurrected.

Certinfy
02-15-2012, 08:52 PM
Hard: Djokovic
Clay: Nadal
Grass: Nadal

pray-for-palestine-and-israel
02-15-2012, 09:09 PM
only surface nadal has a chance is clay

even then im not sure

nole moves just as good if not better on clay

GSMnadal
02-15-2012, 09:30 PM
only surface nadal has a chance is clay

even then im not sure

nole moves just as good if not better on clay

Someone has never watched peak Nadal play on clay. No one moves better than him there.

And on grass peak Nadal is also much better than Novak.

Djokovic on hard, but if USO 2010 Nadal shows up, it'll be hard to pick against him. So even there I'm not sure if I should pick Djokovic.

Safe to say Nadal would be the one to choose when you're looking at things overall.

Time Violation
02-15-2012, 09:31 PM
3 sets/not even close

arm
02-15-2012, 09:33 PM
I always wondered what peak Nadal on grass is? 2008 or 2010?

leng jai
02-15-2012, 09:34 PM
I always wondered what peak Nadal on grass is? 2008 or 2010?

2008.

Certinfy
02-15-2012, 09:37 PM
Someone has never watched peak Nadal play on clay. No one moves better than him there.

And on grass peak Nadal is also much better than Novak.

Djokovic on hard, but if USO 2010 Nadal shows up, it'll be hard to pick against him. So even there I'm not sure if I should pick Djokovic.

Safe to say Nadal would be the one to choose when you're looking at things overall.
That's true. US Open 2010 would more than push a great Djokovic to the limits. We need to see that Nadal more, unreal tennis from him there.

On clay it's definitely Nadal for me too. If you can call Roland Garros 2008 his peak on clay I think it's fair to say no one is ever beating that Nadal.

arm
02-15-2012, 09:39 PM
2008.

Of course. Best final ever afterall :spit:.

Peak Nadal on grass is overrated. I don't even know what peak Nadal on grass is. Yes, he is probably still better than peak Nole on grass. In fact, I don't really know what peak Nole on grass is either. :lol:

The concept of peak is overrated too.

leng jai
02-15-2012, 09:43 PM
Of course. Best final ever afterall :spit:.

Peak Nadal on grass is overrated. I don't even know what peak Nadal on grass is. Yes, he is probably still better than peak Nole on grass. In fact, I don't really know what peak Nole on grass is either. :lol:

The concept of peak is overrated too.

Nole on grass really nothing special, its his worst surface by far. His movement isn't that great on the surface, not at the same level as Rafito or Rogie. He won last year because his form/confidence made up for his deficiency on the surface and Rafito played a relatively poor match in the final. I'd like to see him play Rogie at Wimbledon before gramps turns into a complete mug.

Ajde.

Time Violation
02-15-2012, 09:43 PM
The concept of peak is overrated too.

Certainly it's overrented around here.

arm
02-15-2012, 09:47 PM
Nole on grass really nothing special, its his worst surface by far. His movement isn't that great on the surface, not at the same level as Rafito or Rogie. He won last year because his form/confidence made up for his deficiency on the surface and Rafito played a relatively poor match in the final. I'd like to see him play Rogie at Wimbledon before gramps turns into a complete mug.

Ajde.

Can't take you seriously when you close a post with ajde.

Wimby 2011 was a fluke :inlove:. I realize that, although I am kind of hoping he manages to fluke his way to the title again. :awww:

Just saying that peak Rafa on grass is overrated, mainly because there is a huge lack of quality oponents on grass.

leng jai
02-15-2012, 09:54 PM
Can't take you seriously when you close a post with ajde.

Wimby 2011 was a fluke :inlove:. I realize that, although I am kind of hoping he manages fluke his way to the title again. :awww:

Just saying that peak Rafa on grass is overrated, mainly because there is a huge lack of quality oponents on grass.

Movement is the biggest differentiator on grass these days. Its why guys like Pony still struggle despite the bounce becoming more consistent and the reliance on net play non-existence. Nole is 0-2 against Hass on grass and was beaten easily by Safin in 2008. Rafito himself has struggled in numerous Wimbledon matches against some mediocre players but somehow always pulled it out. They're simply nowhere near as hard to beat on the grass compared to hard and clay.

Rogie's press conference would be GOAT if he lost to Nole at Wimbledon.

YA!

arm
02-15-2012, 09:57 PM
Movement is the biggest differentiator on grass these days. Its why guys like Pony still struggle despite the bounce becoming more consistent and the reliance on net play non-existence. Nole is 0-2 against Hass on grass and was beaten easily by Safin in 2008. Rafito himself has struggled in numerous Wimbledon matches against some mediocre players but somehow always pulled it out. They're simply nowhere near as hard to beat on the grass compared to hard and clay.

Rogie's press conference would be GOAT if he lost to Nole at Wimbledon.

YA!

:lol: Here's something to look forwards to. :rocker:

BigJohn
02-15-2012, 11:45 PM
Why the clean up on aisle 3?

Snowwy
02-15-2012, 11:50 PM
Two reasons:

1) This can be a serious thread about who's peak is better, but it isn't a thread where any users are just making fun of other players fans. If it continues to turn into that by one or more posters then it will be deleted sadly.

2) No need for backseat moderating from any posters. If any poster has a problem with a post, use the report option. :)

reery
02-16-2012, 12:11 AM
Peak Nadal is circa 2008.

Peak Djokovic is circa 2011(don't think he will win 40-something matches in a row in 2012).

Hardcourts: Djokovic of 2011.
Indoors: Djokovic of 2011.
Grass: Nadal of 2008.
Clay: Nadal of 2008.

Alex999
02-16-2012, 01:55 AM
Nole on grass really nothing special, its his worst surface by far. His movement isn't that great on the surface, not at the same level as Rafito or Rogie. He won last year because his form/confidence made up for his deficiency on the surface and Rafito played a relatively poor match in the final. I'd like to see him play Rogie at Wimbledon before gramps turns into a complete mug.

Ajde.
right... and he won W, lol. I can only laugh.. Nole is not good on grass, Nole is not good here there and everywhere...still Novak is the best player in the world, like it or not :)

pray-for-palestine-and-israel
02-16-2012, 02:24 AM
how is nadal not currently at his peak?

has he ever made 4 slam finals in a row before? nope

take away 2011 ao (where nadal was legit injured) and you have a run of 7 straight finals at slams- nadal has never been this good in his career

did he ever have a better start (apart from nole's ownage) to a year in masters series finals? no
he made miami, IW, MC ROME AND MADRID FINALS
5 straight master finals

when fed started losing to journeymen in 2007 you knew he was on his decline- and 2008 showed that

nadal in 2011 , was injured at the ao but bounced back and had one of the most dominant periods after that, losing only to nole for the better part of 6 straight months- in which he won a slam, made another slam final- 1 master shield and another 4 finals

guy was playing quite good if you ask me-

makes nole look even better

pray-for-palestine-and-israel
02-16-2012, 02:28 AM
if nadal's peak was 2008 then murray owned his peak

and nadal looked better at the us open in 2009 but del potro was unstoppable there

if his peak was during 2010 how come he didnt win a single masters shield after the clay court season?

say whatever you want but the only real difference between 2010 and 2011 was that nole got better- much better- otherwise nadal would have won the non calender grand slam me thinks

scoutreporter
02-16-2012, 05:54 AM
Someone has never watched peak Nadal play on clay. No one moves better than him there.

And on grass peak Nadal is also much better than Novak.

Djokovic on hard, but if USO 2010 Nadal shows up, it'll be hard to pick against him. So even there I'm not sure if I should pick Djokovic.

Safe to say Nadal would be the one to choose when you're looking at things overall.

yes from your point of view. Everu objective person wuld have Novak as winner on all surfaces, exept maybe clay... If you look at it overall, i mean really...

scoutreporter
02-16-2012, 05:59 AM
if nadal's peak was 2008 then murray owned his peak

and nadal looked better at the us open in 2009 but del potro was unstoppable there

if his peak was during 2010 how come he didnt win a single masters shield after the clay court season?

say whatever you want but the only real difference between 2010 and 2011 was that nole got better- much better- otherwise nadal would have won the non calender grand slam me thinks

I agree

Mystique
02-16-2012, 06:05 AM
Peak Nadal is circa 2008.

Peak Djokovic is circa 2011(don't think he will win 40-something matches in a row in 2012).

Hardcourts: Djokovic of 2011.
Indoors: Djokovic of 2011.
Grass: Nadal of 2008.
Clay: Nadal of 2008.

This pretty much. The HC matches will be closer affairs, on clay and grass, it will be Nadal without going the distance.
Nada has become a more attacking player offlate, but his ground game was at its peak in 2008 and early part of 2009. I doubt Djokovic would have actually managed to beat him on the natural surfaces. Push him? Maybe. Not beat him. On HCs though, its a different ball game. Djokovic is simply a better HC player.

156mphserve
02-16-2012, 06:07 AM
Preposition: Nadal wins

Proof: By contridiction

Lets assume Nole wins, therefore Nadal must have been injured because he only loses when injured. We have a contridiction because the match is supposed to involve a healthy Nadal, so our assumption of Nole winning must be false, therefore Nadal would win.

so yeah Nadal

Shinoj
02-16-2012, 07:20 AM
Hey Jack Shining you already saw those matches till death from 2011 onwards and Novak is winning all of them. Sometimes 3 sometimes 4 sometimes 5. :wavey:

Jovard
02-16-2012, 09:24 AM
Nole would win 6-2 6-1 6-0

LisaKoh
02-16-2012, 09:25 AM
Isn't Nadal healthy now? The guy looked fine, he took out Federer and Berdych at the Australian Open with no trouble and then he was able to play for six hours in the final. He seems pretty healthy to me.

As another poster pointed out, Nadal's at the peak of his career too: he's made four GS finals in a row and he has never done that before. So it's pretty clear that peak Djokovic trumps peak Nadal at this point.

Alex999
02-16-2012, 09:38 AM
Isn't Nadal healthy now? The guy looked fine, he took out Federer and Berdych at the Australian Open with no trouble and then he was able to play for six hours in the final. He seems pretty healthy to me.

As another poster pointed out, Nadal's at the peak of his career too: he's made four GS finals in a row and he has never done that before. So it's pretty clear that peak Djokovic trumps peak Nadal at this point.
this. Nadal will beat anyone but he can't solve a Nole puzzle. I still think that Nadal had fantastic results last year. it's just that one guy is better than him atm.

Sophocles
02-16-2012, 10:13 AM
Nole wins everywhere but grass.

Mystique
02-16-2012, 11:43 AM
I cant believe how short term the memory of a lot of ppl here is. Nadal at the peak of his powers on clay is as good a clay courter as there has ever been. Djokovic's best on clay is not nearly close to Nadal's best on clay. Just look at FO 2008. Nadal made players like Djokovic, Federer, Verdasco, Almagro look like high school amateurs on the surface. Sure Novak got close in the third set but he still lost in straights and let us face it, he was playing at a very high level in 2008 too after having won the AO. Djokovic v.2 plays more defensive tennis but is mentally stronger. But would that Djokovic beat peak Nadal on clay - those days when Nadal's BH didnt suck and his defence was even better than today? If you have doubts, I suggest you watch a few matches of Nadal from that period on clay.

shuhrat
02-16-2012, 11:53 AM
It's simple. Peak Healthy Nadal never loses. Peak Gluten Free Nole That Cares can't win them all, if he's injured. :shrug:

On a slightly more serious note,

Pre-peak healthy but tired Nadal vs Pre-peak tired and full of gluten & blisters on his feet Nole in '07 Wimbledon
: 3-6, 6-1, 4-1(Ret.) (http://www.atpworldtour.com/Share/Match-Facts-Pop-Up.aspx?t=540&y=2007&r=6&p=D643)

Peak healthy Nadal vs Full of gluten Nole in '08 London
: 7-6(6), 7-5 (http://www.atpworldtour.com/Share/Match-Facts-Pop-Up.aspx?t=311&y=2008&r=7&p=D643)

It's far from a foregone conclusion.

madmax
02-16-2012, 11:56 AM
whoever wins, we lose...hope that's clear

tripwires
02-16-2012, 12:10 PM
right... and he won W, lol. I can only laugh.. Nole is not good on grass, Nole is not good here there and everywhere...still Novak is the best player in the world, like it or not :)

He already gave his reasons for his opinion. Learn to read.

Nole Rules
02-16-2012, 12:28 PM
Nole wins everywhere but grass.

[/Thread].

LisaKoh
02-16-2012, 12:37 PM
I cant believe how short term the memory of a lot of ppl here is. Nadal at the peak of his powers on clay is as good a clay courter as there has ever been. Djokovic's best on clay is not nearly close to Nadal's best on clay. Just look at FO 2008. Nadal made players like Djokovic, Federer, Verdasco, Almagro look like high school amateurs on the surface. Sure Novak got close in the third set but he still lost in straights and let us face it, he was playing at a very high level in 2008 too after having won the AO. Djokovic v.2 plays more defensive tennis but is mentally stronger. But would that Djokovic beat peak Nadal on clay - those days when Nadal's BH didnt suck and his defence was even better than today? If you have doubts, I suggest you watch a few matches of Nadal from that period on clay.

I thought Djokovic's best on clay was when he beat Nadal in Madrid and Rome last year? Nadal is still the FO reigning champ so I'm not really sure why the argument is being made that he's far from his peak on that surface. Is a 25 year old guy really over the hill in tennis? I can understand the argument being made for Federer because he is older than these guys but physically, Nadal is in his prime. This is an old study but they used USTA rankings to determine the physical prime of tennis players: http://www.ucsur.pitt.edu/files/schulz/JofGeronSchulzCarnow1988.pdf

Nadal's still in the range and another study cites that the mean onset of the peak age for male tennis players is 23.7 years of age until 27. The Djoker won his second GS right around that time (and has been on a roll ever since), Federer went on that crazy tear at the age of 22 until the age of 26, Rafa had a great year in 2010 at the age of 23/24, Sampras had his most dominant years from the age of 22-26.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be antagonistic but I fail to see how Nadal now is different from Nadal at his peak. He says he is injured but injured guys don't run around a court for hours like that. The difference between Djoker then and Djoker now is that he has reached the age that most traditional male tennis players physically peak (the make it or break it age) and then discovered that there was another level to his game. It's in the study.

Nole Rules
02-16-2012, 12:51 PM
Nole on grass really nothing special, its his worst surface by far. His movement isn't that great on the surface, not at the same level as Rafito or Rogie. He won last year because his form/confidence made up for his deficiency on the surface and Rafito played a relatively poor match in the final. I'd like to see him play Rogie at Wimbledon before gramps turns into a complete mug.

Ajde.

Rafito broke a nail before the final, no? :sad:
Rafito was injured, no? :sad:
Rafito wore the wrong underwear in that day, no? :sad:
Rafito played at 10%, no? :sad:
Rafito lost the coin toss battle, no? :sad:
Faker is a joke on grass. How the hell he won against Rafito, no? :sad:

All luck this faker. Poor Rafito. :sad:

Hewitt =Legend
02-16-2012, 12:59 PM
People are also forgetting that Nadal brought a bouquet of flowers onto the court hidden in his bag to try and suffocate Nole. Such a spartan this Nole...

Ajde.

Time Violation
02-16-2012, 01:06 PM
He already gave his reasons for his opinion. Learn to read.

Get a room you two already :o

leng jai
02-16-2012, 01:07 PM
Get a room you two already :o

Ajde.

tripwires
02-16-2012, 01:12 PM
Get a room you two already :o

More like 3 chat threads.

YA!

Mystique
02-16-2012, 01:22 PM
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be antagonistic but I fail to see how Nadal now is different from Nadal at his peak. He says he is injured but injured guys don't run around a court for hours like that. The difference between Djoker then and Djoker now is that he has reached the age that most traditional male tennis players physically peak (the make it or break it age) and then discovered that there was another level to his game. It's in the study.

Nadal bloomed very early and while he isnt nearly over the hill, he isnt in the peak of his career either. Or at least is nearing its end. All things considered, Nadal has had a long career, a much longer one at the top than I had expected. But it is also true that Nadal's game on clay was superior in the period of 06-08/09. Then, he started molding his game for the HCs, made some changes and since then his game on clay hasnt been the same as before. Its ironic he had a perfect clay season (for the first time?) in 2010 when his level of play wasnt as great as before. Says a lot about the competition. But that is a different thing altogether.

Anyway, my point is that on clay his game has actually declined a little. Maybe not much, but Tennis is a game of inches isnt it? The reason he still won RG last year and could have yet again swept the masters shields if not for Novak is that he is still pretty darn good - better than most - on the surface and has a mental hold on opponents on that particular surface and guys give up before the match begins. AND the fact that he played Federer in RG final:o

On HCs however, his game has improved a lot. Maybe at the price of his CC game, but if I have 6 RGs, I wont mind that
Well, I am no Nadal fan but this is what I feel.

FlameOn
02-16-2012, 01:22 PM
Peak healthy Nadal was a hell of a specimen...I'd say he wins in 5.

tripwires
02-16-2012, 01:22 PM
Rafito broke a nail before the final, no? :sad:
Rafito was injured, no? :sad:
Rafito wore the wrong underwear in that day, no? :sad:
Rafito played at 10%, no? :sad:
Rafito lost the coin toss battle, no? :sad:
Faker is a joke on grass. How the hell he won against Rafito, no? :sad:

All luck this faker. Poor Rafito. :sad:

Nadull played an epic match and Nole still won. :bowdown:

tripwires
02-16-2012, 01:27 PM
Nadal bloomed very early and while he isnt nearly over the hill, he isnt in the peak of his career either. Or at least is nearing its end. All things considered, Nadal has had a long career, a much longer one at the top than I had expected. But it is also true that Nadal's game on clay was superior in the period of 06-08/09. Then, he started molding his game for the HCs, made some changes and since then his game on clay hasnt been the same as before. Its ironic he had a perfect clay season (for the first time?) in 2010 when his level of play wasnt as great as before. Says a lot about the competition. But that is a different thing altogether.

Anyway, my point is that on clay his game has actually declined a little. Maybe not much, but Tennis is a game of inches isnt it? The reason he still won RG last year and could have yet again swept the masters shields if not for Novak is that he is still pretty darn good - better than most - on the surface and has a mental hold on opponents on that particular surface and guys give up before the match begins. AND the fact that he played Federer in RG final:o

On HCs however, his game has improved a lot. Maybe at the price of his CC game, but if I have 6 RGs, I wont mind that
Well, I am no Nadal fan but this is what I feel.

Agree with this completely. Especially the bolded part.

SerenaFederer
02-16-2012, 01:30 PM
I cant believe how short term the memory of a lot of ppl here is. Nadal at the peak of his powers on clay is as good a clay courter as there has ever been. Djokovic's best on clay is not nearly close to Nadal's best on clay. Just look at FO 2008. Nadal made players like Djokovic, Federer, Verdasco, Almagro look like high school amateurs on the surface. Sure Novak got close in the third set but he still lost in straights and let us face it, he was playing at a very high level in 2008 too after having won the AO. Djokovic v.2 plays more defensive tennis but is mentally stronger. But would that Djokovic beat peak Nadal on clay - those days when Nadal's BH didnt suck and his defence was even better than today? If you have doubts, I suggest you watch a few matches of Nadal from that period on clay.

difference now as opposed to 2008 is nole stopped missing first, and has learned to steady himself in that nadal match up....you have to acknowledge that back then the only person who could stand a realistic chance of beating peak nadal on clay was nole, simply because he has the same grinding game AND the 2 hander to deal with the top spin fh to bh...the difference then was that nadal was the fitter of the 2, and was mentally stronger...

nole improved his fitness and the beginning of his season contributed to the increase in his mental strength (especially because he now knew he could last). now nole is more willing to stay in those long rallies with nadal that he wasn't going to before, and isn't pulling the trigger at the wrong moment. their match at this AO which was basically a grind fest is basically how their matches go everywhere else...but you will notice nole last year beat rafa easier on clay than HC

Shinoj
02-16-2012, 01:30 PM
I cant believe how short term the memory of a lot of ppl here is. Nadal at the peak of his powers on clay is as good a clay courter as there has ever been. Djokovic's best on clay is not nearly close to Nadal's best on clay. Just look at FO 2008. Nadal made players like Djokovic, Federer, Verdasco, Almagro look like high school amateurs on the surface. Sure Novak got close in the third set but he still lost in straights and let us face it, he was playing at a very high level in 2008 too after having won the AO. Djokovic v.2 plays more defensive tennis but is mentally stronger. But would that Djokovic beat peak Nadal on clay - those days when Nadal's BH didnt suck and his defence was even better than today? If you have doubts, I suggest you watch a few matches of Nadal from that period on clay.


You gotta be kidding me babe if you say Nole 2008 is anywhere near to Nole 2.0 :smoke:

Nole Rules
02-16-2012, 01:36 PM
difference now as opposed to 2008 is nole stopped missing first, and has learned to steady himself in that nadal match up....you have to acknowledge that back then the only person who could stand a realistic chance of beating peak nadal on clay was nole, simply because he has the same grinding game AND the 2 hander to deal with the top spin fh to bh...the difference then was that nadal was the fitter of the 2, and was mentally stronger...

nole improved his fitness and the beginning of his season contributed to the increase in his mental strength (especially because he now knew he could last). now nole is more willing to stay in those long rallies with nadal that he wasn't going to before, and isn't pulling the trigger at the wrong moment. their match at this AO which was basically a grind fest is basically how their matches go everywhere else...but you will notice nole last year beat rafa easier on clay than HC

Well said. :lol: @ the ppl who think that peak Nadal is unbeatable on clay. Unbeatable my ass. Nole V.2 can beat ANY Nadal on clay.

leng jai
02-16-2012, 01:37 PM
Well said. :lol: @ the ppl who think that peak Nadal is unbeatable on clay. Unbeatable my ass. Nole V.2 would beat ANY Nadal on clay.

As good as ppl who think Nole 2.0 is unbeatable on every surface under the sun.

Nole Rules
02-16-2012, 01:39 PM
As good as ppl who think Nole 2.0 is unbeatable on every surface under the sun.

No one is unbeatable. Even peak Haas.

LisaKoh
02-16-2012, 02:01 PM
Nadal bloomed very early and while he isnt nearly over the hill, he isnt in the peak of his career either. Or at least is nearing its end. All things considered, Nadal has had a long career, a much longer one at the top than I had expected. But it is also true that Nadal's game on clay was superior in the period of 06-08/09. Then, he started molding his game for the HCs, made some changes and since then his game on clay hasnt been the same as before. Its ironic he had a perfect clay season (for the first time?) in 2010 when his level of play wasnt as great as before. Says a lot about the competition. But that is a different thing altogether.

Anyway, my point is that on clay his game has actually declined a little. Maybe not much, but Tennis is a game of inches isnt it? The reason he still won RG last year and could have yet again swept the masters shields if not for Novak is that he is still pretty darn good - better than most - on the surface and has a mental hold on opponents on that particular surface and guys give up before the match begins. AND the fact that he played Federer in RG final:o

On HCs however, his game has improved a lot. Maybe at the price of his CC game, but if I have 6 RGs, I wont mind that
Well, I am no Nadal fan but this is what I feel.

Sorry but I think the perfect clay season in 2010 part says more about peak performance than any subjective assessment of his game on a particular surface ever could. I think Rafa's results (4 consecutive slam finals) speak volumes about his current form and the science doesn't support the idea that he's not in his physical prime. If the Djoker didn't exist the odds are pretty good Rafa would have had a non-calendar year slam by now. Even if he was precocious for a male player, he is actually at his physical peak at the moment so theoretically there should be no problems with his body irrespective of whether or not he played all those years before. The deterioration/speed decrease will not set in for another two years and it may not even affect him that much. Ferrer is still grinding it out there and his game is much more punishing than Rafa's so I don't see why Nadal should have an abbreviated career.

The problem isn't that Rafa isn't at his peak, the problem is that he got another future HOF'er in his cohort who has also hit his physical peak (at the traditional age) and has started to capitalize on it. This problem might be compounded by Murray who is also in the prime age and who looks more physically capable of slugging it out this year, more than ever. If anybody can copy and execute Djoker's playbook it will be Murray and since he and Nole are about the same age (and fitness level), Murray has the potential to go toe to toe with Rafa if his mind doesn't let him down.

tripwires
02-16-2012, 02:14 PM
No one is unbeatable. Even peak Haas.

He's a Fedtard. JesusFed is unbeatable. :angel:

Sophocles
02-16-2012, 02:22 PM
Just to be clear - nobody (I hope) is saying peak Nole is a better clay-courter than peak Nadal. It's just that the question is, who would win? And the match-up is the single most important factor in that.

Mystique
02-16-2012, 03:11 PM
Sorry but I think the perfect clay season in 2010 part says more about peak performance than any subjective assessment of his game on a particular surface ever could.

Lets just say our basic ideas of assessment differ then :) I prefer to trust my own eyes.

Like I said, I am no Nadal fan so I dont really care about this "who would have won" question coz I enjoy watching him lose to Djokovic right now.;)

I rest my case.

Drugs Ruin Lives
02-16-2012, 03:20 PM
'Peak Nadal'? :lol: Is that like 'peak Wozniacki'?

Mystique
02-16-2012, 03:26 PM
He's a Fedtard. JesusFed is unbeatable. :angel:

Now. This. If there ever was anything indisputable;)

:D