Facebook Parenting: For the troubled teen [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Facebook Parenting: For the troubled teen

BigJohn
02-11-2012, 04:52 PM
If you don't know about this, here is a dad's response to his bratty teenage girl who was disrespectful and stupid on Facebook.

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This thing is getting dozens of comments a minute on YouTube as I post this.

Thank you sir, you are having a positive impact on society.

Update from the dad:

http://www.litefm.com/cc-common/mainheadlines3.html?feed=421220&article=9744152

emotion
02-11-2012, 05:04 PM
...this is a positive impact on society? i cant imagine why that girl would be unhappy with that family

Gagsquet
02-11-2012, 05:40 PM
Is humiliating your daughter (no matter what she did) in front of the internet a good idea? NO
Is shooting a laptop with a gun a good idea? NO
Is this guy stupid? YES

arm
02-11-2012, 06:11 PM
:facepalm: something is wrong with the kid, and it's probably because there is something seriously wrong with the father too. :facepalm:

Wait to go, dad. :yeah: Couldn't he at least not smoke while doing filming this? :facepalm:

BigJohn
02-11-2012, 06:14 PM
I assume you watched the whole thing?

Writing a full letter to her parents but blocking her parents from reading it, full of lies and exaggerations, and you think she is the victim here? After she has been grounded for 3 months for a similar incident and did not learn her lesson? She was warned it would be bigger consequences should she do it again, but she did anyway.

You agree she should be allowed to defame her own parents, but her dad is not allowed to respond?

It would appear you are the minority: 158,870 likes, 12,407 dislikes

He paid for the computer, he can destroy it if he decides to. He did not hit his daughter in any way shape of form. He responded to the lies she posted on her Facebook wall by posting the video on the same wall, to show her friends there are consequences to what she did. The girl has pretty much 15 minutes of chores a day to help run the house, an essential skill everyone must learn, and must pick up after herself. She want to get paid for that? You are defending that girl?

Furthermore, the dad refuses to go on the talk show circuit to make the point that no one should profit from something like that.


The guy has all the good values we need in society. Spoiled brats will be offended by this (kids, teens and twentysomethings) and hippie parents who believe that kids should never suffer consequences for their actions and the kids learn better from what they believe is discussion. Most of these parents are too lazy or incompetent to do that the proper way, when they are not simply too stupid to pull it off and end up being outsmarted by their kids....

Har-Tru
02-11-2012, 06:16 PM
Confrontation leads to resentment, and more confrontation.

arm
02-11-2012, 06:24 PM
I assume you watched the whole thing?

Writing a full letter to her parents but blocking her parents from reading it, full of lies and exaggerations, and you think she is the victim here? After she has been grounded for 3 months for a similar incident and did not learn her lesson? She was warned it would be bigger consequences should she do it again, but she did anyway.

You agree she should be allowed to defame her own parents, but her dad is not allowed to respond?

It would appear you are the minority: 158,870 likes, 12,407 dislikes

He paid for the computer, he can destroy it if he decides to. He did not hit his daughter in any way shape of form. He responded to the lies she posted on her Facebook wall by posting the video on the same wall, to show her friends there are consequences to what she did. The girl has pretty much 15 minutes of chores a day to help run the house, an essential skill everyone must learn, and must pick up after herself. She want to get paid for that? You are defending that girl?

Furthermore, the dad refuses to go on the talk show circuit to make the point that no one should profit from something like that.


The guy has all the good values we need in society. Spoiled brats will be offended by this (kids, teens and twentysomethings) and hippie parents who believe that kids should never suffer consequences for their actions and the kids learn better from what they believe is discussion. Most of these parents are too lazy or incompetent to do that the proper way, when they are not simply too stupid to pull it off and end up being outsmarted by their kids....

I watched the whole thing. God, I wish I hadn't, made me lose a bit of hope in the human race.

The girl is obviously troubling, no doubt about that. But whose fault do you think it is? :scratch: Call me naive, but I believe a child grows up to be whatever their parents make him or her. Th facebook post was a huge fail and very disrespectful, no doubt about that. But what the father did just might explain why the girl posted that in the first place. You think humiliating the kid is right? It's like payback. Good parents do not use the payback strategy, good parents raise, get mad, and punish, but they do not react against their own kid. This video was payback, and good parents just don't do that.

Gagsquet
02-11-2012, 06:30 PM
Read carefully the post of arm BigJohn because she is totally right and you're not.

BigJohn
02-11-2012, 06:58 PM
I watched the whole thing. God, I wish I hadn't, made me lose a bit of hope in the human race.

The girl is obviously troubling, no doubt about that. But whose fault do you think it is? :scratch: Call me naive, but I believe a child grows up to be whatever their parents make him or her. Th facebook post was a huge fail and very disrespectful, no doubt about that. But what the father did just might explain why the girl posted that in the first place. You think humiliating the kid is right? It's like payback. Good parents do not use the payback strategy, good parents raise, get mad, and punish, but they do not react against their own kid. This video was payback, and good parents just don't do that.

Some parents are good people who have brats as kids. It happens. And no one formula is the right formula. Are you old enough to have kids? How would you react if your daughter did something like this for a second time? Would you discuss the incident with her and negotiate an acceptable punishment for her? Do you have a plan B in case the approach you think is best fails to work when your sweet little girl becomes an idiotic teenage bitch?


Seems to me the guy did exactly what you say good parents should do. Raise, get mad, punish.

BigJohn
02-11-2012, 07:01 PM
Read carefully the post of arm BigJohn because she is totally right and you're not.

You're 22.

arm
02-11-2012, 07:15 PM
Some parents are good people who have brats as kids. It happens. And no one formula is the right formula. Are you old enough to have kids? How would you react if your daughter did something like this for a second time? Would you discuss the incident with her and negotiate an acceptable punishment for her? Do you have a plan B in case the approach you think is best fails to work when your sweet little girl becomes an idiotic teenage bitch?


Seems to me the guy did exactly what you say good parents should do. Raise, get mad, punish.

I'm 21. Should I go on, or now that you know my age my opinion will be meaningless anyway?

I have great parents. I don't have perfect parents, though, because there is no such thing as perfect parenting, just like you said, there is no right formula.

I agree that some parents are good people and their kids turn out to be troubling. There is a simple explanation, just because you are a good person with the right convictions it doesn't mean your are a good parent. I am not a parent and I have no way to know if I'll ever be one, but one thing I'm sure of: being a parent is one of the hardest jobs there is out there. It's very easy to fail, even when you mean the best.

I simply do not believe that good parents can have "brats" as kids. If you are teaching them right, they will turn out to be just fine. (Of course you need to consider some exceptions when mental illness is envolved, but I am not considering those situations.) When I say "fine", I mean they will be perfect, they will screw up too, that's for sure. but we all do.

But this situation is very different. What the dad is simply unacceptable for me. I am not familiar with the girl, I don't know the background, all I know is what the dad said, which is obviously a very partial opinion. Regardless of that, the dad's approach was a huge fail. Punishment? Yes. No computer? Yes. Humiliate your kid? No. Shoot your kids computer? Gosh no :facepalm: what sort of example to your kid is that?

The father keeps mentioting how much money and time he spent fixing the girl's computer. That leads me to suspect that he thinks providing food, etc is more than enough and the kid should be more than satisfied and should never complain. We all know that being a parent is a lot more than proving food, clothes, etc.

BigJohn
02-11-2012, 07:42 PM
I'm 21. Should I go on, or now that you know my age my opinion will be meaningless anyway?

I have great parents. I don't have perfect parents, though, because there is no such thing as perfect parenting, just like you said, there is no right formula.

I agree that some parents are good people and their kids turn out to be troubling. There is a simple explanation, just because you are a good person with the right convictions it doesn't mean your are a good parent. I am not a parent and I have no way to know if I'll ever be one, but one thing I'm sure of: being a parent is one of the hardest jobs there is out there. It's very easy to fail, even when you mean the best.

I simply do not believe that good parents can have "brats" as kids. If you are teaching them right, they will turn out to be just fine. (Of course you need to consider some exceptions when mental illness is envolved, but I am not considering those situations.) When I say "fine", I mean they will be perfect, they will screw up too, that's for sure. but we all do.

But this situation is very different. What the dad is simply unacceptable for me. I am not familiar with the girl, I don't know the background, all I know is what the dad said, which is obviously a very partial opinion. Regardless of that, the dad's approach was a huge fail. Punishment? Yes. No computer? Yes. Humiliate your kid? No. Shoot your kids computer? Gosh no :facepalm: what sort of example to your kid is that?

The father keeps mentioting how much money and time he spent fixing the girl's computer. That leads me to suspect that he thinks providing food, etc is more than enough and the kid should be more than satisfied and should never complain. We all know that being a parent is a lot more than proving food, clothes, etc.

My dear, I always take your opinion into consideration,even on the one topic you are completely wrong about (Nole). You're an old soul.

But in this case, it looks like you have only the experience and view point of a kid. When you get into parenting, you got so many factors in the mix right. If good values are at the core, I have no problem with punishment. He did not beat her, and I still feel that this is not humiliation. I think posting the video on her wall is actually great parenting, because it makes the other kids who might have agreed with her think a bit about it.

Getting rid of the computer is also a great move. You might disagree with how he did it, but understand that the guy is an American. Some people over there think carrying guns into University classes and bars is a constitutional right. Considering he did not shoot her but used it to take the computer away for good, destroying any hope of future negotiation to get it back, is a good message.

I think many parents who are unable to say no should look at this. A good chunk are not parenting one bit. You're a parent not your kids' best friend.

I simply do not believe that good parents can have "brats" as kids.

I disagree about that. And you last paragraph.

You're still one of the best posters around. Too bad about your flaw. ;)

GOAT = Fed
02-11-2012, 07:58 PM
Good on the dad.

Although it was a bit too harsh, he clearly has warned the girl before, although I think the reason why he does this in the first place is kind of stupid, I mean shooting a laptop over a facebook post :lol:.

Although I don't like his parenting per se, I mean he goes a bit over the top for a pretty trivial reason, I'd rather someone like him who clearly teaches his child that there are consequences to their actions rather a parent who doesn't give a crap about their child, or are too ''liberal'' to say anything.

arm
02-11-2012, 08:06 PM
My dear, I always take your opinion into consideration,even on the one topic you are completely wrong about (Nole). You're an old soul.

Well, thank you, I guess. :scratch: (Not sure I want to be an old soul, though. :lol:) Oh, and one thing you should know: even as a "Nole tard" I can be far more objective when it comes to him than you can. :p

But in this case, it looks like you have only the experience and view point of a kid. When you get into parenting, you got so many factors in the mix right. If good values are at the core, I have no problem with punishment. He did not beat her, and I still feel that this is not humiliation. I think posting the video on her wall is actually great parenting, because it makes the other kids who might have agreed with her think a bit about it.

But are you a parent? I guess it's normal that you would assume I only have the point of view of the kid, but I beg to differ. I have a 15 year old sister, we're 6 years apart, and she's is pretty much the most important person in my life and I look at her not only as a sister, but also a bit as a mother. It has always been like that, and although I am aware that it does not qualify me as a near-mom (not even close), it does give me a different perspective. :)

How is this not humiliating for her? :facepalm: Come on, you have been a teenager too! Can you imagine how embarassed she must feel when going to school knowing that all her friends and colleagues have watched that piece of art?

Getting rid of the computer is also a great move. You might disagree with how he did it, but understand that the guy is an American. Some people over there think carrying guns into University classes and bars is a constitutional right. Considering he did not shoot her but used it to take the computer away for good, destroying any hope of future negotiation to get it back, is a good message.

While I agree that getting rid of the computer is indeed a great move, the method couldn't be worse. I couldn't care less if he is american, chinese or lives in antarctica, you do not stop your daughter from using the computer by shooting it. It ridiculous in so many levels that I don't even know how to describe it!

I think many parents who are unable to say no should look at this. A good chunk are not parenting one bit. You're a parent not your kids' best friend.

But here is the thing, does he know how to say no? If he did, he wouldn't have to shoot the computer. Just punishing her and forbiding her to use it should have been enough.

I disagree about that. And you last paragraph.

You're still one of the best posters around. Too bad about your flaw. ;)

:awww: that's sweet, thanks. :hug:

Har-Tru
02-11-2012, 08:06 PM
Does anybody really think this measure will make the girl change?

The only thing it will cause is increased resentment towards her father. She might behave better for a while on account of fear, but deep down she'll want to get out of there even more and the feelings of rage and desire for payback will rise.

Again, confrontation only leads to more confrontation.

GOAT = Fed
02-11-2012, 08:10 PM
Does anybody really think this measure will make the girl change?

The only thing it will cause is increased resentment towards her father. She might behave better for a while on account of fear, but deep down she'll want to get out of there even more and the feelings of rage and desire for payback will rise.

Again, confrontation only leads to more confrontation.

Then, how can her lesson be learnt? I mean if the father did nothing, she would get worse.

Now that he has punished her for her actions (And she did receieve a warning before hand), you say she will still not listen.

What would be the best way for her to change then?

arm
02-11-2012, 08:12 PM
Does anybody really think this measure will make the girl change?

The only thing it will cause is increased resentment towards her father. She might behave better for a while on account of fear, but deep down she'll want to get out of there even more and the feelings of rage and desire for payback will rise.

Again, confrontation only leads to more confrontation.

Call me bitter, but I would never forgive my father. :shrug: I would risk saying it's going to make things far worse.

arm
02-11-2012, 08:15 PM
Then, how can her lesson be learnt? I mean if the father did nothing, she would get worse.

Now that he has punished her for her actions (And she did receieve a warning before hand), you say she will still not listen.

What would be the best way for her to change then?

There are other ways. Other punishments, other approaches.

A 15 year-old girl who has been taught the right values can and would understand the parents' perspective had they found the right way to talk to her. Talking doesn't help? Then punish her, yes. No computer, no going out, no tv, whatever. But do not humiliate her. :facepalm: Nobody deserves that, and it will only make her angry.

Sometimes just showing how deeply disappointed you are in the kid will do the trick. (If you there is a good relationship between the parents and the kid.)

Harmless
02-11-2012, 08:16 PM
How can anyone possibly think this is good parenting? :confused:
For one, you don't know their family and can't make an assumption on the kinds of deeper issues and history that they might have. (And a person who consciously and premeditatively shoots a household appliance with a hand gun has some issues, no doubt about that.)

Secondly, what kind of message is he sending his child, specifically, a girl? That someone stronger than you is allowed to destroy your belongings without any reprecussions? That she owns absolutely nothing in her life because it was all bought for her? That it's totally normal for a man to threaten a woman into submission with a firearm? It might seem like reaching, but there's some truth that every girl learns about acceptable behaviour from men in her (later) life from her father.

A good parent would have found other ways to deal with the issue. He could have made her sell the laptop and use the money to pay for a class of something that would benefit her later in life ie. Just one suggestion.
How is shooting your daughters belongings going to make her a more rational, more accepting human being? It can only serve to make her more bitter, more resentful and feel more helpless. He's an idiot, is my point, and he's taking out his own frustrations on his kids and continuing the cycle.

Disrespecting your parents is nothing to be proud of or perpetuate, but a person will respect you as much as you respect them and shared DNA makes no exception to that rule. :shrug:


Also, +1 and this and tits to all of arm's posts. ;)

arm
02-11-2012, 08:18 PM
How can anyone possibly think this is good parenting? :confused:
For one, you don't know their family and can't make an assumption on the kinds of deeper issues and history that they might have. (And a person who consciously and premeditatively shoots a household appliance with a hand gun has some issues, no doubt about that.)

Secondly, what kind of message is he sending his child, specifically, a girl? That someone stronger than you is allowed to destroy your belongings without any reprecussions? That she owns absolutely nothing in her life because it was all bought for her? That it's totally normal for a man to threaten a woman into submission with a firearm? It might seem like reaching, but there's some truth that every girl learns about acceptable behaviour from men in her (later) life from her father.

A good parent would have found other ways to deal with the issue. He could have made her sell the laptop and use the money to pay for a class of something that would benefit her later in life ie. Just one suggestion.
How is shooting your daughters belongings going to make her a more rational, more accepting human being? It can only serve to make her more bitter, more resentful and feel more helpless. He's an idiot, is my point, and he's taking out his own frustrations on his kids and continuing the cycle.

Disrespecting your parents is nothing to be proud of or perpetuate, but a person will respect you as much as you respect them and shared DNA makes no exception to that rule. :shrug:


Also, +1 and this and tits to all of arm's posts. ;)

Well, you're only showing me that I am, indeed, not very good at expressing myself. :facepalm: Exact same opinions, but a much better expression of them. :lol: :worship:

GOAT = Fed
02-11-2012, 08:24 PM
There are other ways. Other punishments, other approaches.

A 15 year-old girl who has been taught the right values can and would understand the parents' perspective had they found the right way to talk to her. Talking doesn't help? Then punish her, yes. No computer, no going out, no tv, whatever. But do not humiliate her. :facepalm: Nobody deserves that, and it will only make her angry.

Sometimes just showing how deeply disappointed you are in the kid will do the trick. (If you there is a good relationship between the parents and the kid.)

Yes I agree that the parent took this waaay out of proportion just over a silly facebook post :lol:. But I would rather like him to do what he did rather than just sit around doing nothing.

I have personally seen that some kids just simply will not listen to parents' advice, no matter how kindly/angrily the parents speak to them and try to explain them that what they're doing is wrong. Also he may have humuliated her and it is indeed wrong, but you can understand where the parent is coming from too because he was humiliated on facebook from his daughter. But yes retribution is not the right thing to do.

I honestly don't see what else he had left. I'm sure at first he would have tried to talk to her, then he grounded her/took away her laptop like he says in the video and even that did not work out. I suppose this was his last resort in trying to teach his daughter a lesson. It doesn't seem to me that the parent did what he did because of one post. It seems like he has resorted to what he did because of the continual insistence of his daughter to not listen to him.

Sunset of Age
02-11-2012, 08:25 PM
I might well be totally wrong about this but somehow I get the feeling that both dad and daughter rather deserve each other. :help:

Harmless
02-11-2012, 08:38 PM
Yes I agree that the parent took this waaay out of proportion just over a silly facebook post :lol:. But I would rather like him to do what he did rather than just sit around doing nothing.

I have personally seen that some kids just simply will not listen to parents' advice, no matter how kindly/angrily the parents speak to them and try to explain them that what they're doing is wrong. Also he may have humuliated her and it is indeed wrong, but you can understand where the parent is coming from too because he was humiliated on facebook from his daughter. But yes retribution is not the right thing to do.

I honestly don't see what else he had left. I'm sure at first he would have tried to talk to her, then he grounded her/took away her laptop like he says in the video and even that did not work out. I suppose this was his last resort in trying to teach his daughter a lesson. It doesn't seem to me that the parent did what he did because of one post. It seems like he has resorted to what he did because of the continual insistence of his daughter to not listen to him.
It's clear that he didn't seem to know what else to do, that's true and I agree with that. But you have to ask yourself why the kid didn't listen to him in the first place. A parent's authority over their kids mainly comes from being a good role model for them and making the kid want to be like them, and respecting their opinions and counsel as a result. Any situation where you just try to threaten yourself into power is sooner or later met with resistance and loss of respect, kids have a mind of their own and they recognize egoism when they see it, no matter how young.

GOAT = Fed
02-11-2012, 08:50 PM
It's clear that he didn't seem to know what else to do, that's true and I agree with that. But you have to ask yourself why the kid didn't listen to him in the first place. A parent's authority over their kids mainly comes from being a good role model for them and making the kid want to be like them, and respecting their opinions and counsel as a result. Any situation where you just try to threaten yourself into power is sooner or later met with resistance and loss of respect, kids have a mind of their own and they recognize egoism when they see it, no matter how young.

Yes, I agree that we do not simply know enough about the background and the context of this situation. But I have seen it numerous times, parents can be the best role models for their children, try to teach them morals, ethics and respect for others and the kids will still not give a damn. I'm speculating here, but I think the father had exhausted all routes and now was on his last resort. It probably won't work because now he has created this circus type of atmosphere and surely his Daughter now will be the victim of many sneers at her by her peers because of her father. But I have to give some kudos to the father for not giving up on his daughter, albeit not in the best of manner.

And to me he doesn't seem to be an egocentric person. If he was, surely he would have accepted that invitation to that American morning show. But then again, the reason that he seemed to have destroyed his daughter's laptop was because she was defaming her family and possibly his character. (Anyone know what she wrote in the post?)

Gagsquet
02-11-2012, 09:42 PM
How can anyone possibly think this is good parenting? :confused:


Yes really frightening to see people agreeing with the father.

BigJohn
02-11-2012, 09:44 PM
Yes really frightening to see people agreeing with the father.

You changed your original troubled people post. It would appear that many people do not see a big humiliation but a good dad doing his job.

170,736 likes, 13,599 dislikes

Gagsquet
02-11-2012, 09:48 PM
You changed your original troubled people post. It would appear that many people do not see a big humiliation but a good dad doing his job.

170,736 likes, 13,599 dislikes

many people are stupid.

BigJohn
02-11-2012, 09:54 PM
many people are stupid.

You seem like a very mature 22 yo.

Harmless
02-11-2012, 10:01 PM
Yes, I agree that we do not simply know enough about the background and the context of this situation. But I have seen it numerous times, parents can be the best role models for their children, try to teach them morals, ethics and respect for others and the kids will still not give a damn. I'm speculating here, but I think the father had exhausted all routes and now was on his last resort. It probably won't work because now he has created this circus type of atmosphere and surely his Daughter now will be the victim of many sneers at her by her peers because of her father. But I have to give some kudos to the father for not giving up on his daughter, albeit not in the best of manner.

And to me he doesn't seem to be an egocentric person. If he was, surely he would have accepted that invitation to that American morning show. But then again, the reason that he seemed to have destroyed his daughter's laptop was because she was defaming her family and possibly his character. (Anyone know what she wrote in the post?)
So many parents teach their kids all these positive values, but only through words. A child learns through imitation, not verbal instruction, and most people do not practice what they preach, be they parents or not. Most of us aren't even aware of the disparity between our words and actions most of the time :tape:, but when you're a parent you have the added weight of another pair of eyes watching your reactions to the world and storing it in their memory for future personal reference. Lots of parents think they have no idea where all this bad behaviour comes from, but a lot of it comes from their exact personal bad habits being mimicked and retained by their child because it's what they've seen and what they know. :shrug:

Egocentrism has different outlets. Maybe he wasn't into the media attention, just not that kind of person and that's fine, good for him, but violently maintaining power over someone when you're losing it is certainly one way it expresses itself.

You changed your original troubled people post. It would appear that many people do not see a big humiliation but a good dad doing his job.

170,736 likes, 13,599 dislikes
That's just a knee-jerk reaction because it's so outrageous that it's sort of funny. And being amused by something does not mean that you agree with it.
Why do you think he's a good father, I don't get it? If, timewarp, at 16, you disrespected your father(or mother) and in return he/she shot your laptop, would you think aw, (s)he's just being a good parent to me. :awww:

leng jai
02-11-2012, 10:06 PM
Parents fail when they are hypocrites. How can you expect your kids to respect what you preach when you don't even do it yourself?

Any video that is a reaction to something posted on Facebook is just :facepalm:

BigJohn
02-11-2012, 10:08 PM
That's just a knee-jerk reaction because it's so outrageous that it's sort of funny. And being amused by something does not mean that you agree with it.
Why do you think he's a good father, I don't get it? If, timewarp, at 16, you disrespected your father(or mother) and in return he/she shot your laptop, would you think aw, (s)he's just being a good parent to me. :awww:

I would never have done anything that dumb and disrespectful of that magnitude. She had a warning before, but she thought her dad was bullshitting when he said next time it will be worse. Forget about the shooting, it's irrelevant in the greater scheme of things. He took the lap top away for ever.

I'll leave you with the sociological analysis of YouTube like/dislike poll results since I do not have the super cognitive ability to read minds and see through the results and interpret why people voted like even if they disagree with the guy.

Neat skill. Does it also apply to MTF polls? :)

arm
02-11-2012, 10:12 PM
I would never have done anything that dumb and disrespectful of that magnitude. She had a warning before, but she thought her dad was bullshitting when he said next time it will be worse. Forget about the shooting, it's irrelevant in the greater scheme of things. He took the lap top away for ever.

I'll leave you with the sociological analysis of YouTube like/dislike poll results since I do not have the super cognitive ability to read minds and see through the results and interpret why people voted like even if they disagree with the guy.

Neat skill. Does it also apply to MTF polls? :)

I don't think the like /dislike count mean much. I strongly dislike the video, yet I didn't click dislike. Not to mention that some of those likes are just trolling atempts like "oh, look at how humilated that girl is right now".

I didn't read the comments, though. What are people saying?

Don't you think this video is a bit like payback from the father? It feels like it. It's childish behaviour, good parents don't do that.

Did I mention the shooting? He SHOT the computer. :facepalm: I seriously have no words to describe that part.

Harmless
02-11-2012, 10:15 PM
I would never have done anything that dumb and disrespectful of that magnitude.
What a little saint you were then. :p

She had a warning before, but she thought her dad was bullshitting when he said next time it will be worse. Forget about the shooting, it's irrelevant in the greater scheme of things. He took the lap top away for ever.The shooting is very important. The shooting is the central aspect.

I'll leave you with the sociological analysis of YouTube like/dislike poll results since I do not have the super cognitive ability to read minds and see through the results and interpret why people voted like even if they disagree with the guy.

Neat skill. Does it also apply to MTF polls? :)Of course. I have super prepolleric skills. I am fluent in both 2003 and sweet cleo, and speak a little flyboy too.

Gagsquet
02-11-2012, 10:16 PM
Anyone thinking the like/dislike ratio of a youtube video is a relevant thing needs brain check.

BigJohn
02-11-2012, 10:17 PM
What a little saint you were then. :p


I had other flaws...


Of course. I have super prepolleric skills. I am fluent in both 2003 and sweet cleo, and speak a little flyboy too.

So you have a potty mouth...

BigJohn
02-11-2012, 10:18 PM
Anyone thinking the like/dislike ratio of a youtube video is a relevant thing needs brain check.

Spoken like a true teenager :yeah:

BigJohn
02-11-2012, 10:19 PM
For those who did not bother to follow the link, the update from dad:

HANNAH'S REACTION

For those that wondered, commented, criticized, and just in general wanted to know:
My daughter came through it fine.

Yes, she's in trouble, and yes she's grounded, but that doesn't mean every moment of her life has to be miserable. She's going to come to terms with the changes that will be present for a while; no TV privileges, no Internet, etc.

In the meantime, once the initial anger passed,... she sat with me reviewing some of the comments that have come in via Facebook and YouTube. One person even suggested collecting the shell casings and auctioning them on eBay. I said Iíd do it if it would help contribute to her college fund! When I told her about it, she thought a minute, got a funny calculating expression on her face and said, ďin that case you should shoot my phone too. We can use more bullets and Iíll go half-sies with ya on it! Itís not like Iím going to need it any time soon. And I can use the money we get to buy a new one.Ē

While the whole point of this story isnít funny, what is funny to me is how weak some people out there think kids are. Our kids are as strong as we help them to be. My daughter took a horrible day in her life, had her crying fit, then got over it, accepted her punishment, and hasnít let it (or peopleís comments) destroy her strength. I donít get any credit for that. Sheís strong and able to overcome almost anything life throws at her.

Since this unsuspectingly threw her into the limelight much more strongly than either of us intended, I asked her if she wanted to make her own response video, and told her Iíd let her do it if she wanted to. She doesnít like being in front of the camera, so she declined, but Iíve told her if she wants to write a response or post a video response, Iíd be OK with it. Itís only fair considering the viral nature of the whole thing. So far sheís not really interested. Quite frankly it seems sheís gotten bored of it much faster than the general public has. If that changes Iíll post it here.

Read more: http://www.litefm.com/pages/news-story.html?feed=421220&article=9744152#ixzz1m784AG00

Gagsquet
02-11-2012, 10:23 PM
Spoken like a true teenager :yeah:

I'm not the one who thinks shooting the laptop of his daughter to punish her is a good way to raise his children. :facepalm:

Sham Kay
02-11-2012, 10:35 PM
I disregarded everything this guy had to say as soon as I saw the cigarette at 0:04

I blame the way I was brought up

BigJohn
02-11-2012, 10:37 PM
I'm not the one who thinks shooting the laptop of his daughter to punish her is a good way to raise his children. :facepalm:

I think you have to see past the shooting and try to put it in perspective within the gun loving culture of America. Try harder.

(I won't answer your I'm not immature, you're immature argument.)

arm
02-11-2012, 10:42 PM
I disregarded everything this guy had to say as soon as I saw the cigarette at 0:04

I blame the way I was brought up

Tits. :lol: I also noticed that. :facepalm:

Regenbogen
02-11-2012, 10:43 PM
But in this case, it looks like you have only the experience and view point of a kid.
People always say this, and I don't get it. Isn't parenting all about how it affects the kid? Shouldn't every parent be considering those effects - i.e., looking at it from the kid's point of view? Someone who dismisses the viewpoint of a kid as worthless is missing the entire point of being a parent.

edit: ^yeah, similar reaction to the cigarette. :lol:

BigJohn
02-11-2012, 10:48 PM
I thought the entire point of being a parent was about raising your kids responsively, being a provider and giving them good values and life lessons.

The girl is fine, it is a hard lesson he is teaching, but the guy is doing his job as a parent.

BigJohn
02-11-2012, 10:49 PM
I disregarded everything this guy had to say as soon as I saw the cigarette at 0:04


Great way of not judging a book by its cover.

Sham Kay
02-11-2012, 10:55 PM
Bit hard not to judge really. Dude couldn't last 9 minutes without puffing.

When the father reacts violently by brandishing a gun on a laptop with the blessing of the kids mother (or stepmother.. or step-stepmother) one has to wonder where the kid gets that rebellious, OTT streak from.. it must be Television..

BigJohn
02-11-2012, 10:56 PM
You and Grassquet have something in common...

Sham Kay
02-11-2012, 11:01 PM
Is it that we're both young tikes and must therefore support the plight of the youth?

Pretty sure I care too little about the way I look to be French.

BigJohn
02-11-2012, 11:16 PM
That's racist.

Harmless
02-11-2012, 11:20 PM
So you have a potty mouth...
While that is, in fact, true :tape:, it has nothing to do with flyboy. :ras: He's very well-spoken. I miss him on here. :sad:

For those who did not bother to follow the link, the update from dad:

Read more: http://www.litefm.com/pages/news-story.html?feed=421220&article=9744152#ixzz1m784AG00
Those are good words, but we can't know what it's like from the perspective of the girl. :shrug:

I think you have to see past the shooting and try to put it in perspective within the gun loving culture of America.
Oh come on. Disregard the fact that he ends the video/sends the message by shooting because they like to shoot things in his neck of the woods? Even if you made the quantum leap and discounted for that, doesn't carelessly brandishing a weapon make for really bad parenting to begin with?


When the father reacts violently by brandishing a gun on a laptop with the blessing of the kids mother (or stepmother.. or step-stepmother) one has to wonder where the kid gets that rebellious, OTT streak from.. it must be Television..
this/tits

Sham Kay
02-11-2012, 11:22 PM
Let me rephrase that.

Pretty sure the French care too much about the way they look to be me

.. I'll just go to my room

Har-Tru
02-11-2012, 11:23 PM
Then, how can her lesson be learnt? I mean if the father did nothing, she would get worse.

Now that he has punished her for her actions (And she did receieve a warning before hand), you say she will still not listen.

What would be the best way for her to change then?

As others have already pointed out, the question is irrelevant. I would have raised that child differently so that, hopefully, it wouldn't have come to that situation.

But had it indeed come to that, shooting her laptop with a gun and posting it online is close to the worst thing a caretaker and educator can do. Is she refusing to take care of her stuff and clean after her? Fine, let her keep leaving her dishes, mugs, clothes etc. all over the house. Don't clean after her. Don't make her bed either, or fix her computer until she takes care of her responsibilities. Those kind of low-key, passive, constructive punishments have been shown to be much more effective than the agressive, destructive ones. And I can't imagine an example of a more destructive punishment than this...

BigJohn
02-11-2012, 11:26 PM
Oh come on. Disregard the fact that he ends the video/sends the message by shooting because they like to shoot things in his neck of the woods? Even if you made the quantum leap and discounted for that, doesn't carelessly brandishing a weapon make for really bad parenting to begin with?




The point was your computer is gone. He made the point clearly. You do not know if he was careless with the gun. Chances are, being the good dad he appears to be, I'm sure he's careful with his firearms.

Different culture, different sensibilities. Some people think it rude to burp and fart during diner, other see the absence of those an insult. He did not shoot anybody.

I am not a gun lover but to focus on the gun is picking on a minor detail. See beyond the gun.

Har-Tru
02-11-2012, 11:32 PM
It's clear that he didn't seem to know what else to do, that's true and I agree with that. But you have to ask yourself why the kid didn't listen to him in the first place. A parent's authority over their kids mainly comes from being a good role model for them and making the kid want to be like them, and respecting their opinions and counsel as a result. Any situation where you just try to threaten yourself into power is sooner or later met with resistance and loss of respect, kids have a mind of their own and they recognize egoism when they see it, no matter how young.

Hear, hear! :yeah:

Harmless
02-11-2012, 11:35 PM
The point was your computer is gone. He made the point clearly. You do not know if he was careless with the gun. Chances are, being the good dad he appears to be, I'm sure he's careful with his firearms.

Different culture, different sensibilities. Some people think it rude to burp and fart during diner, other see the absence of those an insult. He did not shoot anybody.

I am not a gun lover but to focus on the gun is picking on a minor detail. See beyond the gun.
As Jose very well pointed out, it's the destructiveness of the gesture that matters. Okay, I'm looking past the gun :squints: ; he destroyed an expensive piece of electronic equipment that belonged to his daughter, that could have been sold or given away, at worst, because of a facebook post she had written.
With a gun.

leng jai
02-11-2012, 11:39 PM
Big John just likes siding with the more trollish opinions. Irrefutable trend in his posting. Pretty GOAT if you ask me.

Ajde.

Harmless
02-11-2012, 11:43 PM
Big John just likes siding with the more trollish opinions. Irrefutable trend in his posting. Pretty GOAT if you ask me.

Ajde.
Don't ruin our fun with your logic and senseful observation. :(
Ajmo. (a new one for your balkanian vocab)

BigJohn
02-11-2012, 11:43 PM
Big John just likes siding with the more trollish opinions. Irrefutable trend in his posting. Pretty GOAT if you ask me.

Ajde.

Ajde you.

I am not BuddyHolly. That's libel.

BigJohn
02-11-2012, 11:44 PM
Don't ruin our fun with your logic and senseful observation. :(
Ajmo. (a new one for your balkanian vocab)

And you agree with the other clown? Ajde you too.

Har-Tru
02-11-2012, 11:47 PM
Big John, do you believe teaching using the methods of discipline from authority is the most adequate way to educate the future generations?

BigJohn
02-11-2012, 11:49 PM
This is not about teaching, it is about parenting. And I approve. Wholeheartedly.

Har-Tru
02-11-2012, 11:51 PM
Teachers and parents are both concerned with the education of the young. They are two sides of the same coin.

leng jai
02-11-2012, 11:52 PM
Teachers are gold diggers, only in it for the $$$ IMO.

Harmless
02-11-2012, 11:53 PM
And you agree with the other clown? Ajde you too.
I prefer ajmo in my insults, if you please.

Teachers are gold diggers, only in it for the $$$ IMO.
:lol:

BigJohn
02-11-2012, 11:56 PM
I prefer ajmo in my insults, if you please.




Not knowing what either of those words mean, I fear it might be a trap.

Har-Tru
02-11-2012, 11:56 PM
Teachers are gold diggers, only in it for the $$$ IMO.

Tits.

Harmless
02-12-2012, 12:06 AM
Not knowing what either of those words mean, I fear it might be a trap.
Well, no better time to educate yourself on national warcries than DC week. :D

BigJohn
02-12-2012, 12:08 AM
Teachers and parents are both concerned with the education of the young. They are two sides of the same coin.

Yes, but the relationship between teacher-student and parent-child is fundamentally different.

BigJohn
02-12-2012, 12:09 AM
Well, no better time to educate yourself on national warcries than DC week. :D

As long as it is not disrespectful, it is all good.

Have a great ajmo.

Sham Kay
02-12-2012, 12:11 AM
Teachers are gold diggers, only in it for the $$$ IMO.

Dis

My Teachers never even tried to deal with my bully issues.. So I just kept bullying people.

Harmless
02-12-2012, 12:15 AM
As long as it is not disrespectful, it is all good.

Have a great ajmo.
:lol:

Since I'm here already and we're OT, here you go, have an ajmo demostration. :bowdown:
WIVwPxBflhA

BigJohn
02-12-2012, 12:18 AM
:lol:

Since I'm here already and we're OT, here you go, have an ajmo demostration. :bowdown:
WIVwPxBflhA

My god...

Har-Tru
02-12-2012, 12:26 AM
Yes, but the relationship between teacher-student and parent-child is fundamentally different.

I disagree.

And I still can't see why the approach to the education of the child should fundamentally differ.

BigJohn
02-12-2012, 12:33 AM
I disagree.

And I still can't see why the approach to the education of the child should fundamentally differ.

Most teacher would probably get in trouble for destroying a student's computer for disrespecting them on Facebook. Perhaps even more using a gun in the classroom. This dad is getting mostly praises.

Sham Kay
02-12-2012, 12:42 AM
This father really did do all the right things.

- Teaching his daughter the value of respect for people and possessions by posting his daughter's failings for the world to see and destroying a valued tool that assists them in their everyday life

- Teaching his daughter the value of a dollar by destroying hundreds of dollars worth of software while smoking what could possibly be an accumulation of thousands of dollars worth of cigarettes. This doubles as an important lesson in the value of good health for you and others.

- Teaching his daughter the value of being considerate enough to not fly off the handle and spill your selfish feelings over the internet by.. flying off the handle and spilling his selfish feelings over the internet then destroying a valuable laptop.

- Teaching his daughter the value of not responding or taking advantage of opportunities brought about by media attention by answering in detail every one of their questions, including a backstory on the entire situation.


If I ever have kids they gonna be sarcastic know-it-alls and like it.

ballbasher101
02-12-2012, 02:45 AM
There is something seriously wrong with the guy. Shooting the laptop:confused: Why not sell it dumbass. No wonder the daughter is fucked up. The apple does not fall far from the tree.

Johnny Groove
02-12-2012, 03:00 AM
This is one of the wildest things I've seen recently.

Putting 9 bullets in the laptop? :facepalm:

Humiliating your daughter in front of the whole universe? :help:

I agree with Jose. This will only serve to heighten the daughter's hatred of the father.

tripwires
02-12-2012, 03:49 AM
I found it pretty hilarious.

leng jai
02-12-2012, 04:02 AM
Lucky it wasn't a Macbook...the bullets would have deflected back into his face.

Ajde.

buddyholly
02-12-2012, 04:32 AM
LOL at the people who actually believe this joke. Reminds me of Balloon Boy. There aren't enough Brooklyn Bridges to meet demand these days.

Kat_YYZ
02-12-2012, 05:24 AM
Thousands of 15-year olds before this girl have furiously scribbled similar letters into a journal. Facebook is not the same as a little book you keep under your pillow, but it's not surprising that someone who's 15 years old in today's world wouldn't sense that. The kid was venting; probably exaggerating some things. The dad is probably exaggerating that the chores each take 2 minutes. Fairly typical parent/teen stuff.

He probably should've just taken the laptop to his work and locked it in a drawer or something. The 'macho' display is pretty silly.

Har-Tru
02-12-2012, 09:14 AM
Most teacher would probably get in trouble for destroying a student's computer for disrespecting them on Facebook. Perhaps even more using a gun in the classroom. This dad is getting mostly praises.

But I thought that

To focus on the gun is picking on a minor detail. See beyond the gun.


:confused:

Sham Kay
02-12-2012, 12:50 PM
LOL at the people who actually believe this joke. Reminds me of Balloon Boy. There aren't enough Brooklyn Bridges to meet demand these days.

When it comes to videos like this, it's an imperative to completely ignore the possibility it might be fake

BigJohn
02-12-2012, 04:00 PM
But I thought that




:confused:

Wow. You really got me there.

Johnny Groove
02-12-2012, 04:04 PM
Pretty difficult to fake putting 9 bullets in a laptop :lol:

Lee
02-12-2012, 05:36 PM
There is no 100% right way of parenting but over the top like this dad is definitely not a good way. As many comented here that the daughter's behaviour is kind of reflecting her father's general behaviour.

The father can locked up the computer like he locked up his gun as a responsible gun owner. He can put on passsword protection on the computer (that's what I am doing with my teenage son). He can talk to his daughter in private about her lies on internet. And can ground her like he is doing it now.

And most importantly, find out why she behaved this way. Most likely, she does not understand herself. Finding out the reason behind her action is the only way to truly fix THE problem.

Har-Tru
02-12-2012, 06:24 PM
Wow. You really got me there.

I know.

Though admittedly, you sort of got yourself. It happens, no worries.

cobalt60
02-12-2012, 07:08 PM
There is no 100% right way of parenting but over the top like this dad is definitely not a good way. As many comented here that the daughter's behaviour is kind of reflecting her father's general behaviour.

The father can locked up the computer like he locked up his gun as a responsible gun owner. He can put on passsword protection on the computer (that's what I am doing with my teenage son). He can talk to his daughter in private about her lies on internet. And can ground her like he is doing it now.

And most importantly, find out why she behaved this way. Most likely, she does not understand herself. Finding out the reason behind her action is the only way to truly fix THE problem.

Exactly. And his being violent towards a computer? And he wonders why his daughter is the way she is?

Sham Kay
02-12-2012, 07:10 PM
Pretty difficult to fake putting 9 bullets in a laptop :lol:

A sceptic says: Gun/bullets could be real, it is America. Laptop could be a fake, could be a dead laptop. Situation could be fake. Daughter may be in on it. May not exist.

Good acting in this scenario, the guys a natural in front of a camera

BigJohn
02-12-2012, 07:16 PM
I know.

Though admittedly, you sort of got yourself. It happens, no worries.

My I congratulate you? Rarely do we see such an acute and finely tuned sarcasm detector.

BigJohn
02-12-2012, 07:28 PM
Exactly. And his being violent towards a computer? And he wonders why his daughter is the way she is?

I see. It involves a timeline continuum loop. The little bitchy brat became a bitchy brat because the dad will in the future destroy her computer because she was a bitchy brat. Around the house, someone called Kirk, Picard or Janeway must be in deep trouble...

Reading from some comments in here, the dad routinely guns down all of his girl's possession and uses the gun to discipline her. bad test? :armed: no more piano lessons? :armed: you did not clean the litter? no more kitty! :armed: :armed: :armed: It does not look to be the case. He looks like a dad who is responsible and consequential.


She crossed the line big time, dad is very disappointed and the decision is final. The message got across with no interference or misunderstanding .The punishment fits the crime. Her disrespectful Facebooking days are over.


And seriously Dr, he merely used his firearm to dispose of the computer. It's America. You yourself probably emptied your firearm in the last 5 days for less than that.

cobalt60
02-12-2012, 08:09 PM
Must you always be so snide when someone does not agree with you? Did I attack your view specifically? Because I thought I just agreed with Lee's.

Har-Tru
02-12-2012, 08:43 PM
My I congratulate you? Rarely do we see such an acute and finely tuned sarcasm detector.

One doesn't need any sarcasm detector in your case. Condescending sarcasm is your weapon of choice whenever you run out of true arguments, which happens to be very often.

BigJohn
02-12-2012, 09:15 PM
Must you always be so snide when someone does not agree with you? Did I attack your view specifically? Because I thought I just agreed with Lee's.

No, and I was just having a little fun with the no wonder the little brat is a brat: the father destroyed her computer. You usually have a better sense of humour than that.

I was obviously serious about firing your own weapon.

One doesn't need any sarcasm detector in your case. Condescending sarcasm is your weapon of choice whenever you run out of true arguments, which happens to be very often.

Sure, that post is not condescending one bit.

My sarcastic response was a response to that

But I thought that

:confused:

The two posts you quoted are not self-excluding like you tried to paint them. You had no argument. Sometimes, sarcasm is the answer in cases like these.

Think about it. And think about what you did. After that we'll discuss it some more to make sure this turns out to be a positive learning experience.

It's either that or I'll shoot your computer.

Time Violation
02-12-2012, 09:28 PM
Provided all this is real, and not some concoction a la Johnny Capo, it's a big parenting fail... yea the daughter is behaving like a whiny brat, but then again she not the adult here, while the father looks like a psycho, and he is a grown man, certainly wouldn't want to have him as the first neighbour.

ssin
02-12-2012, 09:43 PM
Provided all this is real, and not some concoction a la Johnny Capo, it's a big parenting fail... yea the daughter is behaving like a whiny brat, but then again she not the adult here, while the father looks like a psycho, and he is a grown man, certainly wouldn't want to have him as the first neighbour.

exactly. with his cigar, gun, hat and speech impediments, this man looks like a total psycho to me.

v-money
02-12-2012, 11:37 PM
I think it's a difficult situation. If what the father is saying is true, the girl does seem spoiled and lacks respect for her parents. That being said, how the situation got to that point may be largely due to how the parents raised the child. The parents probably should have tried to limit a young girl like that from cellphone use and a Facebook in the first place because it can only create a greater rift in the family dynamic. Maybe I don't have a good perspective on this because I did not have a cell phone or a Facebook account until I went to college, which I got to stay in contact with my family and friends.

I think technology and the rise of the internet is extremely useful, but what it has done to human interaction seriously scares the shit out of me. Because of that I have texting blocked on my phone (on my own accord) and every one of my current friends is blocked on Facebook chat (I keep some friends from high school unblocked). What the parents are doing to the child is rough and it is humiliating, but if they can make her time outside of the internet useful, then this social experiment could be successful.

v-money
02-13-2012, 12:23 AM
A lot of people here are focusing on the shooting. I agree that this was a poor way to go about it, but I honestly didn't see it as a central aspect of the video.

Would people have found this to be effective parenting if at the end of the video, the father gave the laptop to charity, instead of destroying it? Or is making a video and humiliating the child on Facebook the main problem here, not the shooting?

buddyholly
02-13-2012, 12:32 AM
Pretty difficult to fake putting 9 bullets in a laptop :lol:

Wow, you don't understand anything, do you/

Johnny Groove
02-13-2012, 12:33 AM
A lot of people here are focusing on the shooting. I agree that this was a poor way to go about it, but I honestly didn't see it as a central aspect of the video.

Would people have found this to be effective parenting if at the end of the video, the father gave the laptop to charity, instead of destroying it? Or is making a video and humiliating the child on Facebook the main problem here, not the shooting?

The shooting enhances it to a considerable degree. If at the end, the Dad gave the laptop to charity, it would leave a different taste in the viewer's mouth.

But shooting the laptop makes the Dad seem like more of a psycho than anything, and can distort one's opinion of the guy.

buddyholly
02-13-2012, 12:35 AM
Would people have found this to be effective parenting if at the end of the video, the father gave the laptop to charity, instead of destroying it?

How is that going to give you a chance at youtube fame and the opportunity to make money?

Time Violation
02-13-2012, 12:47 AM
How is that going to give you a chance at youtube fame and the opportunity to make money?

How much money can he make there? Most of those yt 'celebrities' last shorter than pair of socks :p Anyway, if he indeed was faking it, he earned his dough, pretty convincing act :)

BigJohn
02-14-2012, 10:20 PM
255,275 likes, 22,963 dislikes...

Gagsquet
02-14-2012, 11:10 PM
'The truth is not always the same as the majority decision.” Pope John Paul II

v-money
02-14-2012, 11:47 PM
255,275 likes, 22,963 dislikes...

Is it really that relevant?

Rebecca Black - Friday has 118,815 likes, 491,137 dislikes, but we all know that she is a musical genius.

BigJohn
02-14-2012, 11:51 PM
'The truth is not always the same as the majority decision.” Pope John Paul II


preaching to the converted.

but not always means sometimes it is...

BigJohn
02-14-2012, 11:51 PM
Is it really that relevant?

Rebecca Black - Friday has 118,815 likes, 491,137 dislikes, but we all know that she is a musical genius.

True, very true... Miss Black is the new Beatles.

Har-Tru
02-15-2012, 12:38 PM
No, and I was just having a little fun with the no wonder the little brat is a brat: the father destroyed her computer. You usually have a better sense of humour than that.

I was obviously serious about firing your own weapon.



Sure, that post is not condescending one bit.

My sarcastic response was a response to that



The two posts you quoted are not self-excluding like you tried to paint them. You had no argument. Sometimes, sarcasm is the answer in cases like these.

Think about it. And think about what you did. After that we'll discuss it some more to make sure this turns out to be a positive learning experience.

It's either that or I'll shoot your computer.

It is you who resorts to using condescending sarcastic remarks left and right when you have no argument. It is you who patronises as a standard procedure, as others have been ready to point out in this very thread.

I was not being sarcastic. Now perhaps you'll find this a good time to stop beating around the bush and tell us how those two posts don't contradict themselves.

Har-Tru
02-15-2012, 12:41 PM
True, very true... Miss Black is the new Beatles.

Lady Gaga's videos have about ten times more likes than dislikes. Is she the new Beatles?

BigJohn
02-15-2012, 09:54 PM
It is you who resorts to using condescending sarcastic remarks left and right when you have no argument. It is you who patronises as a standard procedure, as others have been ready to point out in this very thread.

I was not being sarcastic. Now perhaps you'll find this a good time to stop beating around the bush and tell us how those two posts don't contradict themselves.

I'll try to keep it simple then.

The gun is a minor detail because the video is from the US where guns ownership is considered a Constitutional right.


Are you following so far?



Now even in a country where guns ownership is considered a Constitutional right, a teacher would be reprimanded for firing a gun in a classroom.

So no, these two comments are not self excluding.

There are only two freaking dots to connect. You should be able to manage that. :)

Hope I'm not overestimating you.

BigJohn
02-15-2012, 09:56 PM
Lady Gaga's videos have about ten times more likes than dislikes. Is she the new Beatles?

I already answered that...


'The truth is not always the same as the majority decision.” Pope John Paul II

preaching to the converted.

but not always means sometimes it is...

... and obviously sometimes it is not.

I am leaning towards I did overestimate. ;)

Har-Tru
02-16-2012, 01:43 PM
I'll try to keep it simple then.

The gun is a minor detail because the video is from the US where guns ownership is considered a Constitutional right.


Are you following so far?



Now even in a country where guns ownership is considered a Constitutional right, a teacher would be reprimanded for firing a gun in a classroom.

So no, these two comments are not self excluding.

There are only two freaking dots to connect. You should be able to manage that. :)

Hope I'm not overestimating you.

Use easier words next time, will you. :rolleyes:

Maybe it's me who overestimated you. The fact that you mentioned such a superficial aspect as the gun as your argument supporting your claim that parenting and school education are pears and oranges makes me think you either didn't get my point or you're purposely dodging it. I took it for granted that you were downplaying the role of the gun because, after all, that kind of measure could have been taken using a hundred other tools, or indeed be done in a thousand other different ways that would have the same effects and would in essence be the same measure.

I thought you were able to see past the gun scene and understand it for what it is: an example of the kind of destructive, aggressive and confrontational approach that I've been exposing and that is more often than not counter-productive and leads to an escalation of the conflict, rather than to its productive solution.

And that kind of approach, and its alternatives, work or fail both when applied by parents and when applied by teachers.

Har-Tru
02-16-2012, 01:54 PM
I already answered that...






... and obviously sometimes it is not.

I am leaning towards I did overestimate. ;)

Are you always such a pedantic patronizer? Bloody hell, you are world record material...

You're begging the question anyway, quite obviously. What makes you think this time it is?

gulzhan
02-16-2012, 02:18 PM
Is humiliating your daughter (no matter what she did) in front of the internet a good idea? NO
Is shooting a laptop with a gun a good idea? NO
Is this guy stupid? YES

I don't understand it, guys :confused: Why you think it is humiliating for the girl? She posted on the Facebook the letter to her parents where she raised some issues, he answered her on Yutube. She wanted an adult talk, he gave her an adult talk. I'd continue the discussion via internet if I were her. If she has an access to internet :tape: ;)

BigJohn
02-16-2012, 10:05 PM
Use easier words next time, will you. :rolleyes:

Maybe it's me who overestimated you. The fact that you mentioned such a superficial aspect as the gun as your argument supporting your claim that parenting and school education are pears and oranges makes me think you either didn't get my point or you're purposely dodging it. I took it for granted that you were downplaying the role of the gun because, after all, that kind of measure could have been taken using a hundred other tools, or indeed be done in a thousand other different ways that would have the same effects and would in essence be the same measure.

I thought you were able to see past the gun scene and understand it for what it is: an example of the kind of destructive, aggressive and confrontational approach that I've been exposing and that is more often than not counter-productive and leads to an escalation of the conflict, rather than to its productive solution.

And that kind of approach, and its alternatives, work or fail both when applied by parents and when applied by teachers.

I can't believe I'm having this discussion.

1- A teacher is not a parent. These two are separate entities. They have different roles and functions. The relationship they have with the kid are of a different nature. Apples and oranges. Both are fruits (they are dealing with kids), but they are very different fruits. I find it troubling and a matter of concern that anyone would fail to see that.

2- Not everybody is a hippie that wants to have a conversation about everything with children and who believe negotiating everything with children is a good thing. Sometimes no means no and the parent or the teacher does not have to explain themselves. Sometimes a consequence is required, sometimes a major consequence is required.

I am glad some parents and educators are still teaching this to the young ones, who too often feel entitled to everything, who never have to take ownership for their mistakes, who are sheltered from taking responsibility for any of their actions by overprotective parents, and who are shocked to be told no for the first time when they reach young adulthood.

BigJohn
02-16-2012, 10:12 PM
Are you always such a pedantic patronizer? Bloody hell, you are world record material...



I am not sure that term applies, and frankly, I ain't that good. It is not in my nature. It only happens with those who deserve it.

On a positive note, I am happy to report that this year it is highly probable you will not have to nominate yourself for the ACC.

Vida
02-16-2012, 10:32 PM
If you don't know about this, here is a dad's response to his bratty teenage girl who was disrespectful and stupid on Facebook.

kl1ujzRidmU

This thing is getting dozens of comments a minute on YouTube as I post this.

Thank you sir, you are having a positive impact on society.

Update from the dad:

http://www.litefm.com/cc-common/mainheadlines3.html?feed=421220&article=9744152

aaaahahahaa. very good.

arm
02-16-2012, 10:47 PM
I don't understand it, guys :confused: Why you think it is humiliating for the girl? She posted on the Facebook the letter to her parents where she raised some issues, he answered her on Yutube. She wanted an adult talk, he gave her an adult talk. I'd continue the discussion via internet if I were her. If she has an access to internet :tape: ;)

Please do tell what is humiliation, then. :lol:

orangehat
02-17-2012, 12:57 AM
It's extremely debatable (I would say 50-50) whether this is good parenting or not.

Whether it is good parenting or not depends on 1 sole factor - nature of the child.

Some children respond positively to pressure/harsh tactics, if you give them an inch they'll take a foot.
Some children are the reverse, they will be nice to you if you are reasonable to them, and by reasonable I don't mean accede to all their requests, but simply propose reasonable punishments/alternatives, and they will risk anything to defy you to the end of the earth if you employ harsh measures instead.

If the child falls into the former category, it's "good" parenting - only applicable to the child and not across the board
If the other, then this is terrible parenting.

Parenting is not a blanket form, it has to be adapted to each child.

BigJohn
02-17-2012, 02:52 AM
It's extremely debatable (I would say 50-50) whether this is good parenting or not.

Whether it is good parenting or not depends on 1 sole factor - nature of the child.

Some children respond positively to pressure/harsh tactics, if you give them an inch they'll take a foot.
Some children are the reverse, they will be nice to you if you are reasonable to them, and by reasonable I don't mean accede to all their requests, but simply propose reasonable punishments/alternatives, and they will risk anything to defy you to the end of the earth if you employ harsh measures instead.

If the child falls into the former category, it's "good" parenting - only applicable to the child and not across the board
If the other, then this is terrible parenting.

Parenting is not a blanket form, it has to be adapted to each child.

Har-Tru disagrees...

gulzhan
02-17-2012, 06:29 AM
Please do tell what is humiliation, then. :lol:

You will know what humiliation is if (and I hope that won't happen!) your kid whom you raise and love and care for would post publicly something close to what this girl wrote on her Facebook wall.

I might be of different culture, but showing publicly disrespect to your parents is the worst thing a child can do. I can not even imagine what pain this parents have felt when they read that and saw the comments from the teenage friends. You can see it took all the strength for this man to stay calm. Putting bullets into the computer was the least he could do in that state of pain. And when he mentioned mom... Boy, I was all in tears by that moment!

I do understand children experience this type of emotions. All the kids have their dark moment in relationship with the parents. You can write this in the diary, you can shout it in your room but write this for both your friends and any stranger to read?! And then see them mocking your parents?! WOW! If you think it's not humiliation of yourself, then tell me what is humiliation then.

P.S. I wish you all remembered what this was about. She got so mad because she is made to do home chores?! For fuck's sake, how she thinks she is gonna live and support herself and take care of her own kids and family?!

Please, kids who love tennis-- tell me that you don't make such a big deal of cleaning and washing dishes at home and making your OWN beds every day. Because if you do, then I don't know how we, the generation before you, will leave you to run this world.

scoobs
02-17-2012, 11:23 AM
This is why you should just have laptops instead of kids.

Har-Tru
02-17-2012, 03:30 PM
I can't believe I'm having this discussion.

1- A teacher is not a parent. These two are separate entities. They have different roles and functions. The relationship they have with the kid are of a different nature. Apples and oranges. Both are fruits (they are dealing with kids), but they are very different fruits. I find it troubling and a matter of concern that anyone would fail to see that.

Of course they are different. Of course the relationship they have with the kids is different.

But for a hundredth time: the approach to the kid's education must not in essence be different.

2- Not everybody is a hippie that wants to have a conversation about everything with children and who believe negotiating everything with children is a good thing. Sometimes no means no and the parent or the teacher does not have to explain themselves. Sometimes a consequence is required, sometimes a major consequence is required.


Fully agree. Where did I say otherwise? Where did I say I systematically favour talking everything over and over again and negotiating over any other measures?

What I said was that the approach this man is using is a very confrontational and aggressive one, one that uses authority to impose will in a gratuitous show of force.

Is his teenage girl refusing to clean after her? Won't she make her bed? Is she, to sum it up, declining to assume her responsibilities? Well in that case, let her understand the importance of assuming responsibility. Do not clean after her. Do not clean her room or make her bed. Stop buying her favourite cereal (mere example of something she likes). After all, there's plenty of regular food in the fridge. Is her computer broken? Let her take it to the shop and repair it herself. Oh, she doesn't have enough money? That's all right, father will gladly lend it to her in exchange for a helping hand tidying up the garage.

This kind of punishment should make her realise that the social environments humans live in, be it a small-sized one like a family or a larger-scale one like a society only work when everyone takes care of their responsibilities and shows a constructive, caring and altruistic attitude.

Needless to say, these measures should not be taken recklessly, and serious conversations between parents and children are indeed needed. She must understand her parents are not refusing to fix her laptop etc. because they don't love her or don't want to help her, but because cooperation and collaboration work both ways, and lately it has been working only one way too often.

The principle in play here, and this is my whole point, is one that has been comprehensively explained and verified by psychiatry, psychology, sociology and neurology. Nobody can make a person understand something or want to do something. Understanding, learning, desires etc. are under total control of the person that understands, learns or wishes something. Other persons, be them parents, teachers, friends etc. can only show the way and build an environment in which the mental processes that lead to understanding and caring have a better chance of taking place. But at the end of the day, it is the learner that learns. And this girl will not learn to take care of her responsibilities until she understands that it is important to do just that. And again, you can't just make her understand by force.

As I said, it is positive, constructive measures that best help form this environment. Negative, destructive measures like the one this father took do not.

I am glad some parents and educators are still teaching this to the young ones, who too often feel entitled to everything, who never have to take ownership for their mistakes, who are sheltered from taking responsibility for any of their actions by overprotective parents, and who are shocked to be told no for the first time when they reach young adulthood.

Again, nothing to add to this. :scratch: :shrug:

Har-Tru
02-17-2012, 03:40 PM
Har-Tru disagrees...

Should I quote every post from every poster who shares my views? Is this the way you debate things? Showing youtube likes and dislikes figures, quoting posts that sort of agree with you while taking jabs at those who disagree with you... Classy. And the kind of pseudo-arguments used by those who aren't used to finding real, grounded ones.

ssin
02-17-2012, 05:21 PM
Har-Tru, your effort should be appreciated, I think you are a good man, and you surely are/ will be a great parent , you could be a great teacher as well, but some souls just cannot be enlightened and are best left alone, although you might disagree. If I had to do something about that, (god forbid) I would just point the way to a shrink. The "dad" badly needs one. As for the people who liked the video, imo most of them just appreciated free fun that the poor bastard provided, and the fact that it's not about them, their parents or children.

Har-Tru
02-17-2012, 06:11 PM
Har-Tru, your effort should be appreciated, I think you are a good man, and you surely are/ will be a great parent , you could be a great teacher as well, but some souls just cannot be enlightened and are best left alone, although you might disagree. If I had to do something about that, (god forbid) I would just point the way to a shrink. The "dad" badly needs one. As for the people who liked the video, imo most of them just appreciated free fun that the poor bastard provided, and the fact that it's not about them, their parents or children.

Very true, I agree. I don't expect the dad to read the non-tennis section of this particular sports forum anyway. ;) This is a broader debate, a crucial one and one that isn't discussed often enough.

Oh and I am a good teacher. :p

BigJohn
02-17-2012, 09:41 PM
Of course they are different. Of course the relationship they have with the kids is different.

But for a hundredth time: the approach to the kid's education must not in essence be different.

I'll take it you're not a math teacher...

I do not see how a teacher, who has close to 30 students in his class at a time can use the same approach as a parent in charge of 1 to 4 children. It is not the same setting, it is not the same dynamic, there is a curriculum to follow in schools, we are talking two different realities.

Classroom management is not the same as raising a family.

Fully agree. Where did I say otherwise? Where did I say I systematically favour talking everything over and over again and negotiating over any other measures?

What I said was that the approach this man is using is a very confrontational and aggressive one, one that uses authority to impose will in a gratuitous show of force.

Is his teenage girl refusing to clean after her? Won't she make her bed? Is she, to sum it up, declining to assume her responsibilities? Well in that case, let her understand the importance of assuming responsibility. Do not clean after her. Do not clean her room or make her bed. Stop buying her favourite cereal (mere example of something she likes). After all, there's plenty of regular food in the fridge. Is her computer broken? Let her take it to the shop and repair it herself. Oh, she doesn't have enough money? That's all right, father will gladly lend it to her in exchange for a helping hand tidying up the garage.

This kind of punishment should make her realise that the social environments humans live in, be it a small-sized one like a family or a larger-scale one like a society only work when everyone takes care of their responsibilities and shows a constructive, caring and altruistic attitude.

This is precisely the kid of hippie crap that does not work with spoiled kids at home, even less at school.

Sure, let the whole family live in filth because the daughter does not pick up after herself. How nice for the rest of the family!

You are passing a judgement on his way of raising a difficult teenager. That guy is a father, you are not one yet. Perhaps he has more experience than you when it comes to raising a family...

As far as we know, he did not shoot any of her things in the past. Do you know what other steps he took before coming to this?

Needless to say, these measures should not be taken recklessly, and serious conversations between parents and children are indeed needed. She must understand her parents are not refusing to fix her laptop etc. because they don't love her or don't want to help her, but because cooperation and collaboration work both ways, and lately it has been working only one way too often.

More hippie crap that doesn't work in the classroom, and more importantly, that is very rarely used properly as an approach by parents. This usually leads to endless negotiating, bribing the kids and other crappy methods today's guilt ridden parents use to try to be close to their kids even if they are not there for them most of the time.

Parents are buying quality time and peace with the kid because they are never there to actually be a parent and don't want to spent the few hours a week they are actually in the same room with their kids actually doing their jobs as parents.



The principle in play here, and this is my whole point, is one that has been comprehensively explained and verified by psychiatry, psychology, sociology and neurology. Nobody can make a person understand something or want to do something. Understanding, learning, desires etc. are under total control of the person that understands, learns or wishes something. Other persons, be them parents, teachers, friends etc. can only show the way and build an environment in which the mental processes that lead to understanding and caring have a better chance of taking place. But at the end of the day, it is the learner that learns.

There are many approaches to achieve that. Different sets of parents and different sets of kids will lead to different approaches. How can you say what this guy did was wrong, you don't know the history of the family, the personality of the girl, her peers, and what we do know of the events leading to this last step / you-finally-crossed-the-line-little-girl actually leads many to believe the guy acted appropriately.



And this girl will not learn to take care of her responsibilities until she understands that it is important to do just that. And again, you can't just make her understand by force.

How can you can't be sure of any of this? You don't know the girl...

As I said, it is positive, constructive measures that best help form this environment. Negative, destructive measures like the one this father took do not.



You said it, but it is not fact. It is the opinion of a 25 yo childless dude.

Different situations, different kids, different parents: different ways to deal with educational issues.

BigJohn
02-17-2012, 09:45 PM
Should I quote every post from every poster who shares my views? Is this the way you debate things? Showing youtube likes and dislikes figures, quoting posts that sort of agree with you while taking jabs at those who disagree with you... Classy. And the kind of pseudo-arguments used by those who aren't used to finding real, grounded ones.

Was my post untrue?

Har-Tru
02-17-2012, 11:59 PM
I'll take it you're not a math teacher...

I do not see how a teacher, who has close to 30 students in his class at a time can use the same approach as a parent in charge of 1 to 4 children. It is not the same setting, it is not the same dynamic, there is a curriculum to follow in schools, we are talking two different realities.

Classroom management is not the same as raising a family.

Oh I see, we're talking logistics now.

The approach cannot certainly be as individualised and in-depth, but once again, the essence remains the same. Furthermore, there is always time for personal face-to-face rapports between the teacher and the individual students, while the rest of the class is occupied with given tasks. In Germany at least it is customary to do this at least four times a year, often more. And a student, we must not forget, has many teachers but just one father and mother.

Again, the essence of the approach remains. Teachers who use brute force stemming from their authority and issue severe and repressive punishments are overwhelmingly less respected than those who take positive, personalised and adjusted measures and issue constructive punishments.

This is precisely the kid of hippie crap that does not work with spoiled kids at home, even less at school.

Sure, let the whole family live in filth because the daughter does not pick up after herself. How nice for the rest of the family!

You are passing a judgement on his way of raising a difficult teenager. That guy is a father, you are not one yet. Perhaps he has more experience than you when it comes to raising a family...

As far as we know, he did not shoot any of her things in the past. Do you know what other steps he took before coming to this?

And perhaps he is a shitty parent, and my opinion is spot-on.

I can ask you the same question: do you know what other steps he did not take and should have taken before coming to this? As I said at the beginning of this thread, I suspect it would never had come to this at all if this parent didn't have such a confrontational attitude.

And I did not intend the whole family to live in filth. Things don't have to be black and white, you know. :rolleyes:

More hippie crap that doesn't work in the classroom, and more importantly, that is very rarely used properly as an approach by parents. This usually leads to endless negotiating, bribing the kids and other crappy methods today's guilt ridden parents use to try to be close to their kids even if they are not there for them most of the time.

Parents are buying quality time and peace with the kid because they are never there to actually be a parent and don't want to spent the few hours a week they are actually in the same room with their kids actually doing their jobs as parents.


That "hippie crap" DOES work in the classroom when applied regularly and consequently. There is an endless list of literature on the subject corroborating this fact, and it's not exactly something new.

In any case it is not about negotiating or bribing. It is about fairness and adequacy.

There are many approaches to achieve that. Different sets of parents and different sets of kids will lead to different approaches. How can you say what this guy did was wrong, you don't know the history of the family, the personality of the girl, her peers, and what we do know of the events leading to this last step / you-finally-crossed-the-line-little-girl actually leads many to believe the guy acted appropriately.

I already explained why I consider what this guy did a wrong measure.

And yes, I don't know the background of this. And you don't know either. And what we do know comes solely from one side.

How can you can't be sure of any of this? You don't know the girl...


Did you read what I wrote right before that sentence?

You said it, but it is not fact. It is the opinion of a 25 yo childless dude.

Different situations, different kids, different parents: different ways to deal with educational issues.

Do I need to write IMHO at the beginning of each of my sentences?

By the way, keep throwing as many as you please (I count three in this post alone) but ad hominems don't constitute valid arguments.

Of course there isn't one be all end all way to deal with educational issues. But the basic approach to them ought to always be constructive, not destructive; calm, not violent and aggressive; and last but not least, educational, not confrontational.

Har-Tru
02-18-2012, 12:13 AM
Was my post untrue?

I know mine wasn't!

I disagree that there might be a scenario in which this could be good parenting. I agree on the necessity to adequate the approach to the child.

I also agree that pressure and harsh measures are sometimes the best solution. Pressure, when applied properly, can be the best motivator. Harsh measures are at times needed. Sometimes a kid is too young, too inexperienced or too invaded by hormones to fully grasp a specific point, and has to be taken by the hand and taken along the right path. But once again, as harsh as they may have to be they must never be a show of force and a demonstration of authority, never exposing and humiliating, but always with a constructive focus. The goal is always getting the kid to truly understand why they're doing the right thing, not just making them do it.

BigJohn
02-18-2012, 02:41 AM
Oh I see, we're talking logistics now.

The approach cannot certainly be as individualised and in-depth, but once again, the essence remains the same. Furthermore, there is always time for personal face-to-face rapports between the teacher and the individual students, while the rest of the class is occupied with given tasks. In Germany at least it is customary to do this at least four times a year, often more. And a student, we must not forget, has many teachers but just one father and mother.

Again, the essence of the approach remains. Teachers who use brute force stemming from their authority and issue severe and repressive punishments are overwhelmingly less respected than those who take positive, personalised and adjusted measures and issue constructive punishments.



And perhaps he is a shitty parent, and my opinion is spot-on.

I can ask you the same question: do you know what other steps he did not take and should have taken before coming to this? As I said at the beginning of this thread, I suspect it would never had come to this at all if this parent didn't have such a confrontational attitude.

And I did not intend the whole family to live in filth. Things don't have to be black and white, you know. :rolleyes:



That "hippie crap" DOES work in the classroom when applied regularly and consequently. There is an endless list of literature on the subject corroborating this fact, and it's not exactly something new.

In any case it is not about negotiating or bribing. It is about fairness and adequacy.



I already explained why I consider what this guy did a wrong measure.

And yes, I don't know the background of this. And you don't know either. And what we do know comes solely from one side.



Did you read what I wrote right before that sentence?



Do I need to write IMHO at the beginning of each of my sentences?

By the way, keep throwing as many as you please (I count three in this post alone) but ad hominems don't constitute valid arguments.

Of course there isn't one be all end all way to deal with educational issues. But the basic approach to them ought to always be constructive, not destructive; calm, not violent and aggressive; and last but not least, educational, not confrontational.

No, we are talking common sense. At least I am.

If you want to believe that you have the answer to every parenting and teaching problem, do that. It is highly probable that in the very school you teach, some teachers with more experience than you would disagree with a lot of what you believe. I know for a fact that some parents, good parents themselves raising kids, would label your approach as naive and utopian.

About the dad from this thread, since there are so many factors we don't know, I guess it is based what either of us believe, he's right or he is wrong. No fruitful conversation is gonna happen here. I do love the confidence: if that father used my methods, that little girl would not have done what she did. You have been extremely well nurtured at home... I still don't think taking away a girl's computer is destructive and confrontational. (It's good parenting) And I still don't believe how it was done was humiliation.




So in essence, there are many ways to be a parent or to teach, but in order to be right, at the center of any method are the core principles you believe in. If it is all so simple, why are there still crappy parents and teachers? All you got to do is chat with the kid 4 times a year, talk some more, love, be positive and understanding... The solution to raising every child and teach every classroom.

Now about this:

Again, the essence of the approach remains. Teachers who use brute force stemming from their authority and issue severe and repressive punishments are overwhelmingly less respected than those who take positive, personalised and adjusted measures and issue constructive punishments.

Everything is not, you know black and white... Different teachers, different students, different learning environment. One size does not fit all.