Panetta won't dispute report Israel may attack Iran [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Panetta won't dispute report Israel may attack Iran

swisht4u
02-04-2012, 11:23 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2012-02-02/panetta-israel-iran-attack/52939426/1

I'm looking at what happens later, the US said they will defend Israel and may even send some troops if necessary.

I don't like the idea of american troops endangering their lives and possibly losing lives for Israel.

Israel brought up the point that americans are in danger from Iran 'sleeper cells' to get more support from americans, using fear as a tool to get what they want.

abraxas21
02-04-2012, 11:27 PM
blame the zionist jewish-american lobby for it

ballbasher101
02-04-2012, 11:36 PM
Religion oh religion. People fighting over a so called holy land :confused:. When will this nonsense stop. Science has already solved the origins of man yet people still believe the creation stories. I suppose the devil planted evidence for evolution :haha:.

abraxas21
02-05-2012, 12:07 AM
Religion oh religion. People fighting over a so called holy land :confused:. When will this nonsense stop. Science has already solved the origins of man yet people still believe the creation stories. I suppose the devil planted evidence for evolution :haha:.

it's more about ethnicity than religion, tbh

Black Adam
02-05-2012, 04:01 AM
W
W
I
I
I

allpro
02-05-2012, 09:31 AM
http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/5999/mahmoud.jpg

Garson007
02-05-2012, 11:41 AM
I thought the USA already made it clear that they won't help Israel if they're the aggressor.

Har-Tru
02-05-2012, 01:26 PM
it's more about ethnicity than religion, tbh

How can you, how can anyone, say this with a straight face?

swisht4u
02-05-2012, 01:50 PM
I thought the USA already made it clear that they won't help Israel if they're the aggressor.

If Israel attacks and Iran does nothing for awhile then it's a separate incident.
Later if Iran does something offensive to Israel it can be seen that Iran is the agressor even though it's retaliation for a past incident.

The US doesn't want Israel to attack and may say things to dissuade Israel from doing so. Saying they won't help is one way of doing this. I don't believe what they say and that's my concern, the US can change it's stance whenever it suits them.

I don't want the US armed forces in any more danger than they are already.

JolánGagó
02-05-2012, 02:19 PM
Why would anyone dispute reports on the natural course of events?

abraxas21
02-05-2012, 02:53 PM
How can you, how can anyone, say this with a straight face?

pretty easily if you know what you're talking about

Har-Tru
02-05-2012, 03:48 PM
pretty easily if you know what you're talking about

I asked you once already to explain how this is a matter of ethnicity rather than religion, and you did the same thing you've done now: being a smart-ass and refusing to substantiate your claims. I will ask you again.

I guess all those Palestinian lads who blow themselves up do it because they can't stand those lighter skins and big noses.

buddyholly
02-05-2012, 05:16 PM
I asked you once already to explain how this is a matter of ethnicity rather than religion.

Admitting it is about religion would would expose the whole leftist, anti-Semitic agenda. Better to blame something vague. And if you call it ''ethnicity'' then you can pretend it is not racism either.

abraxas21
02-05-2012, 06:20 PM
I asked you once already to explain how this is a matter of ethnicity rather than religion, and you did the same thing you've done now: being a smart-ass and refusing to substantiate your claims. I will ask you again.
and why should i substantiate that claim? you're the one who's disagreeing with it. therefore, it's your job to debunk it -if you can, that is. that's the way it works in all discussions.


guess all those Palestinian lads who blow themselves up do it because they can't stand those lighter skins and big noses.
:rolleyes: i don't even understand how that follows anything of what i've ever said in this forum, let alone this thread

abraxas21
02-05-2012, 06:22 PM
the whole leftist, anti-Semitic agenda.

:rolls:

Har-Tru
02-05-2012, 08:23 PM
and why should i substantiate that claim? you're the one who's disagreeing with it. therefore, it's your job to debunk it -if you can, that is. that's the way it works in all discussions.

You cannot possibly be serious...

A claim is not valid unless it is grounded and substantiated. THAT is the way it works in all discussions. I can't just pull stuff out of my ass and pretend to get away with it just like that.

:rolleyes: i don't even understand how that follows anything of what i've ever said in this forum, let alone this thread

OK, let me break it down for you. Why do Palestinian people blow themselves up killing Israeli citizens? Does it have to do with ethnicity, or does it have to do with religion?

buddyholly
02-05-2012, 08:33 PM
and why should i substantiate that claim? you're the one who's disagreeing with it. therefore, it's your job to debunk it -if you can, that is. that's the way it works in all discussions.





It actually works exactly the opposite way in the real world. If you make a claim, you need to have the evidence to justify it.
eg: A scientist writes ''In the Mediterranean seven new species of crab were discovered.'' He doesn't then say "Prove me wrong." He comes up with the evidence.

But if you think the real world is inhabited by creationists and religious fanatics, then you are right on the money in your method of argument.

We have a new bus campaign coming in Toronto this summer. The sides of buses will say:

EXTRAORDINARY CLAIMS REQUIRE EXTRAORDINARY EVIDENCE
Jesus...... Mohammed....... Homeopathy.........Astrology

abraxas21
02-05-2012, 08:41 PM
I can't just pull stuff out of my ass and pretend to get away with it just like that.

and i don't. like i said, you're free to offer debunk my claims if you have the arguments for it. as of right now, you're just entertaining me with your increasingly angry tone of your posts


OK, let me break it down for you. Why do Palestinian people blow themselves up killing Israeli citizens? Does it have to do with ethnicity, or does it have to do with religion?

obvious answer: neither. ethnicity plays its part when it comes to understand why both nations dont share things.

the conflict is fairly simple to comprehend in global terms. 2 different nations are fighting over land ownership. it really is that simple.

the fact that both groups have different religions or that to one nation considers the territory as 'The Holy Land' is almost anecdodical. at the end of the day, the roots of the conflict are as old as the roots of about 99% of the wars in the history of manking.

abraxas21
02-05-2012, 08:43 PM
It actually works exactly the opposite way in the real world. If you make a claim, you need to have the evidence to justify it.

the evidence of what i said is out there, bro. try google. then again, it's actually not much evidence that's needed - it's just common sense.


But if you think the real world is inhabited by creationists and religious fanatics, then you are right on the money in your method of argument.

We have a new bus campaign coming in Toronto this summer. The sides of buses will say:

EXTRAORDINARY CLAIMS REQUIRE EXTRAORDINARY EVIDENCE
Jesus...... Mohammed....... Homeopathy.........Astrology

now you're trying too hard...

Har-Tru
02-05-2012, 09:28 PM
and i don't. like i said, you're free to offer debunk my claims if you have the arguments for it. as of right now, you're just entertaining me with your increasingly angry tone of your posts




obvious answer: neither. ethnicity plays its part when it comes to understand why both nations dont share things.

the conflict is fairly simple to comprehend in global terms. 2 different nations are fighting over land ownership. it really is that simple.

the fact that both groups have different religions or that to one nation considers the territory as 'The Holy Land' is almost anecdodical. at the end of the day, the roots of the conflict are as old as the roots of about 99% of the wars in the history of manking.

Anecdotical you say?

The ruling party of Israel has the Biblical claim to the Land of Israel in its platform. Conversely, the leading Palestinian party, Hamas, maintains that land is a waqf that belongs to Muslims and must therefore be ruled and governed by them. The father of modern-day Zionism, Theodore Herzl, referred to the Biblical claim of the Land of Israel as the core foundation of the movement that resulted in the creation of the present-day state of Israel. Muslims use the Quran mandates to destroy all infidels that enter Muslim land as the foundation for their fight.

To go back to my example of the suicide bombers: these people blow themselves up because of their religious beliefs. It is the promise of the most perfect of paradises for the martyrs of their faith that pushes them to kill themselves and other (indidels) with them.

Religion: the great divider.

buddyholly
02-05-2012, 11:08 PM
the evidence of what i said is out there, bro. try google.

Pure bullshit. ''God is Great'' is associated with just about every terrorist attack the Arabs/Muslims carry out. When was the last time a suicide bomber screamed ''Land is Great"?

FYI your use of ''bro'' and son'' in your posts is juvenile at best, a pathetic attempt to sound patronizing at worst.

buddyholly
02-05-2012, 11:21 PM
:rolls:

Your hysterical laughter was in response to me poking fun at your screaming 'neo-con'' ''imperialist'' style of rhetoric. So if you are rolling on the floor laughing at my language, you may now better appreciate what most of your posts sound like to other posters.

Mjau!
02-05-2012, 11:59 PM
OK, let me break it down for you. Why do Palestinian people blow themselves up killing Israeli citizens? Does it have to do with ethnicity, or does it have to do with religion?

This is why. (It's also very rare.)

K_jvXnPG9Xc

To go back to my example of the suicide bombers: these people blow themselves up because of their religious beliefs. It is the promise of the most perfect of paradises for the martyrs of their faith that pushes them to kill themselves and other (indidels) with them.

This is part one of a lecture titled Dying to Win delivered by Dr. Robert Pape (read more below) at Duke University on March 23, 2011. This lecture was sponsored by the Muslim Life at Duke University.

From The University of Chicago website:
Dr. Robert Pape is professor of Political Science and director of the Program for International Politics at The University of Chicago. Dr. Pape specializes in international security affairs. His publications include the books Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism (Random House, 2005) and Bombing to Win: Air Power and Coercion in War (Cornell, 1996); Cutting the Fuse: The Explosion of Global Suicide Terrorism and How to Stop it (University of Chicago Press, September, 2010) ). and articles "Why Economic Sanctions Do Not Work" (International Security, 1997), "The Determinants of International Moral Action" (International Organization, 1999), "The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism" (American Political Science Review, August 2003), and "The True Worth of Air Power" (Foreign Affairs, March/April 2004).

He is director of the Chicago Project on Security and Terrorism, http://cpost.uchicago.edu.

His current work focuses on the origins of suicide terrorism and the logic of soft balancing in a unipolar world. His commentary on international security policy has appeared in the New York Times, Washington Post, New Republic, Boston Globe, Los Angeles Times, and the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, as well as on ABC, the BBC and NPR.

X4HnIyClHEM

Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwODYq63ku0&feature=related

abraxas21
02-06-2012, 12:57 AM
Anecdotical you say?

The ruling party of Israel has the Biblical claim to the Land of Israel in its platform. Conversely, the leading Palestinian party, Hamas, maintains that land is a waqf that belongs to Muslims and must therefore be ruled and governed by them. The father of modern-day Zionism, Theodore Herzl, referred to the Biblical claim of the Land of Israel as the core foundation of the movement that resulted in the creation of the present-day state of Israel. Muslims use the Quran mandates to destroy all infidels that enter Muslim land as the foundation for their fight.

To go back to my example of the suicide bombers: these people blow themselves up because of their religious beliefs. It is the promise of the most perfect of paradises for the martyrs of their faith that pushes them to kill themselves and other (indidels) with them.

Religion: the great divider.

i don't mean to offend but you're clueless. on this matter, at least -that's for sure....


i'll start with the basics: religion is in the case of the palestinian-israeli conflict -as it is in a shitload of other conflicts for that matter- merely an excuse to support different arguments that conveninently support one's real motives.

not too long ago, Christian, Muslim and even Jewish Palestinians used to get along relatively well. In point of fact, the number of Christian Palestinians wasn't that different from the number of Muslim Palestinians. How can one explain today the abudant majority of Muslims in modern day Palestine? How can one explain the somewhat extreme religious fanatism of political organizations like Hamas and the support it receives? The answer is simple: the grimmer the times of need are, the more the people will recurr to more extreme ideologies.

As much as neo-cons like to put it (not saying you're necessarily one btw), terrorism isn't merely an expression of religious fervour, it's deep down an expression of revenge towards the evils sufferered by a greater power. That's the case for Al-Qaeda, that's the case for the Tamil Tigers and that's also the case for the terrorist attacks that some Palestinians have engaged into.

To say that terrirists "blow themselves up because of their religious beliefs" is an analysis so simplistic that it virtually defies logic and certainly defies empirical evidence. it's not a coincidence that before the invasion of iraq, the country had never had a terrorist attack in its history as much as it's not a surprise that most terrorists come from destroyed countries.

It's also total BS to say (not saying you say this) that Palestinians and Jews cant coexist together in a single state. Even at this point it is more than possible. It just takes a bit of effort and, yes, Israel -as the largest aggressor and the biggest terrorist in the area- needs to take the first step. A good signal would be to stop defining itself ethnically as the "Jewish state" and to stop discriminating Palestinians living within and outside its country.

abraxas21
02-06-2012, 01:02 AM
Pure bullshit. ''God is Great'' is associated with just about every terrorist attack the Arabs/Muslims carry out. When was the last time a suicide bomber screamed ''Land is Great"?

good that you write this as it makes my job easier. read the post above. :yeah:


FYI your use of ''bro'' and son'' in your posts is juvenile at best, a pathetic attempt to sound patronizing at worst.

so, you like it?

buddyholly
02-06-2012, 02:47 AM
It just takes a bit of effort and, yes, Israel -as the largest aggressor and the biggest terrorist in the area- needs to take the first step. A good signal would be to stop defining itself ethnically as the "Jewish state" and to stop discriminating Palestinians living within and outside its country.

''It just takes a bit of effort and, yes, Iran -as the patron of the Palestinians and the biggest terrorist in the area - needs to take the first step. A good signal would be to stop defining itself religiously as a ''Muslim Nation'' and to stop discriminating against Jews living within and outside its country''.

The above paraphrasing is written to demonstrate how you have no argument at all - just a spewing of poorly perceived anti-Semitic propaganda.

buddyholly
02-06-2012, 02:50 AM
so, you like it?

It's a sign of an insecure person trying to buy approval.

abraxas21
02-06-2012, 02:53 AM
''It just takes a bit of effort and, yes, Iran -as the patron of the Palestinians and the biggest terrorist in the area - needs to take the first step. A good signal would be to stop defining itself religiously as a ''Muslim Nation'' and to stop discriminating against Jews living within and outside its country''.

The above paraphrasing is written to demonstrate how you have no argument at all - just a spewing of poorly perceived anti-Semitic propaganda.

uh, what?

the iranians didn't expell a whole nation in the past century in order to form its country.

the iranians have every right to define their country as a Muslim nation if so they wish. The israelis don't. the reasons are obvious.

buddyholly
02-06-2012, 02:54 AM
To say that terrirists "blow themselves up because of their religious beliefs" is an analysis so simplistic that it virtually defies logic and certainly defies empirical evidence. it's not a coincidence that before the invasion of iraq, the country had never had a terrorist attack in its history as much as it's not a surprise that most terrorists come from destroyed countries.

.

Tell that to the Kurds. Saddam was a text book terrorist, unleashing terror on Iraquis daily.

buddyholly
02-06-2012, 03:00 AM
the iranians have every right to define their country as a Muslim nation if so they wish. The israelis don't. the reasons are obvious.

You are still unable to live in the real world. Still making ridiculous claims. The Israelis have every right to define their country as they wish. Who has the authority to stop them?

abraxas21
02-06-2012, 03:00 AM
and speaking of iran (which is the main topic of this thread actually) i wish israel would refrain from coordinating and financing the murder of their scientists

Ardeshir Hosseinpour (killed in 2007), Masud Ali Mohammadi (killed in 2010), Majid Shahriari (killed in 2010), Dariush Rezaeinejad (killed in july 2011) and Mostafa Ahmadi-Roshan (killed in january 2012). today's director of Iran's atomic agency, Fereydun Abbasi-Davani, was gravely hurt in november 2010. and the general Hassan Moghadam died in november 2011, in the explosion of the barracks of the Revolutionary Guards.

that said, it all seems to point out that israel will bomb the shit out of iran sometime during the coming months.

abraxas21
02-06-2012, 03:02 AM
You are still unable to live in the real world. Still making ridiculous claims. The Israelis have every right to define their country as they wish. Who has the authority to stop them?

anyone with fair principles

moral authority and physical authority are 2 very different things.

buddyholly
02-06-2012, 03:05 AM
anyone with fair principles


So why haven't they been stopped?

abraxas21
02-06-2012, 03:06 AM
given that BH has shown to always put the blame on the poor, especially the poor third world nations, i wonder what he'll make out of this. 2 nations he's in love with.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/01/13/false_flag

israel's government is the scariest gvt in the world. one can only hope that one day israel changes drastically.

abraxas21
02-06-2012, 03:07 AM
So why haven't they been stopped?

didn't you read the second sentence of that post?

buddyholly
02-06-2012, 03:18 AM
didn't you read the second sentence of that post?

I said "Who has the authority to stop them?"
You answered, "Anyone with fair principles."
So I asked why they have not been stopped.

What part of that do you not understand?

abraxas21
02-06-2012, 03:20 AM
I said "Who has the authority to stop them?"
You answered, "Anyone with fair principles."
So I asked why they have not been stopped.

What part of that do you not understand?

you're kind of thick, aren't you?

buddyholly
02-06-2012, 03:21 AM
2 nations he's in love with.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/01/13/false_flag

israel's government is the scariest gvt in the world.
Did you understand the article?

Which would scare you more? Moving to Israel or moving to North Korea?

buddyholly
02-06-2012, 03:21 AM
you're kind of thick, aren't you?

Stumped for a reply?

abraxas21
02-06-2012, 03:32 AM
Stumped for a reply?

the reply is there and the meaning is clear.

you keep clinging at straws in order to avoid a straight discussion... every little word i exchange with you is a total waste of time. writing this very post, although short, inevitably makes me question the futility of talking with you.

most of the times i get a laugh but that's about all i can expect by "discussing" with you...

buddyholly
02-06-2012, 11:40 AM
Just answer the question in one or two simple words! Who has the fair principles that give them the authority to stop Israel? And why haven't they acted?

Unlike you, I don't at all question the futility of talking with you.

Har-Tru
02-06-2012, 12:44 PM
i don't mean to offend but you're clueless. on this matter, at least -that's for sure....


i'll start with the basics: religion is in the case of the palestinian-israeli conflict -as it is in a shitload of other conflicts for that matter- merely an excuse to support different arguments that conveninently support one's real motives.

not too long ago, Christian, Muslim and even Jewish Palestinians used to get along relatively well. In point of fact, the number of Christian Palestinians wasn't that different from the number of Muslim Palestinians. How can one explain today the abudant majority of Muslims in modern day Palestine? How can one explain the somewhat extreme religious fanatism of political organizations like Hamas and the support it receives? The answer is simple: the grimmer the times of need are, the more the people will recurr to more extreme ideologies.

As much as neo-cons like to put it (not saying you're necessarily one btw), terrorism isn't merely an expression of religious fervour, it's deep down an expression of revenge towards the evils sufferered by a greater power. That's the case for Al-Qaeda, that's the case for the Tamil Tigers and that's also the case for the terrorist attacks that some Palestinians have engaged into.

To say that terrirists "blow themselves up because of their religious beliefs" is an analysis so simplistic that it virtually defies logic and certainly defies empirical evidence. it's not a coincidence that before the invasion of iraq, the country had never had a terrorist attack in its history as much as it's not a surprise that most terrorists come from destroyed countries.

It's also total BS to say (not saying you say this) that Palestinians and Jews cant coexist together in a single state. Even at this point it is more than possible. It just takes a bit of effort and, yes, Israel -as the largest aggressor and the biggest terrorist in the area- needs to take the first step. A good signal would be to stop defining itself ethnically as the "Jewish state" and to stop discriminating Palestinians living within and outside its country.

You should look up the word substantiate in the dictionary. It has nothing to do with opinion or speculation. Notice I didn't simply state my impressions, but gave hard facts that are extensively documented.

I ask you again: why do you think those Muslim kids blow themselves up? Is it just because they hate the Israelis occupying their land? Or might it have to do with the fact that they are promised eternal salvation in a paradise full of virgins, extendable to their family (who proceed to thank his son for the brave sacrifice he did for them and Allah)?

You mention Iraq. Of course there weren't any suicide bombers in Iraq prior to the US-led invasion. Precisely because there weren't any infidels or traitors to kick out of Allah's lands.

abraxas21
02-06-2012, 04:31 PM
I ask you again: why do you think those Muslim kids blow themselves up? Is it just because they hate the Israelis occupying their land? Or might it have to do with the fact that they are promised eternal salvation in a paradise full of virgins, extendable to their family (who proceed to thank his son for the brave sacrifice he did for them and Allah)?

the answer to that is quite clear in the post you quoted.

the fact that you think the latter is the real motive of terrorism speaks volumes about you.

You mention Iraq. Of course there weren't any suicide bombers in Iraq prior to the US-led invasion. Precisely because there weren't any infidels or traitors to kick out of Allah's lands.

this is outright retarded. prior to the invasions the various branches of Muslims were peacefully coexisiting and the Christian minority hadn't been attacked.

you have shown to be an islamophobic in the past, so i can't say im surprised to know you hold these views.

Har-Tru
02-06-2012, 04:51 PM
the answer to that is quite clear in the post you quoted.

the fact that you think the latter is the real motive of terrorism speaks volumes about you.



this is outright retarded. prior to the invasions the various branches of Muslims were peacefully coexisiting and the Christian minority hadn't been attacked.

you have shown to be an islamophobic in the past, so i can't say im surprised to know you have these views.

You keep manipulating my words. I haven't uttered the word terrorism once yet. I said suicide bombings. The US has invaded other countries in the past, yet the only other instance in which they had to deal with regular suicide attacks was when they faced the Japanese kamikazes in WWII. The link between the two? You got it right: religion.

I am religiophobic. Islam just happens to be less washed down than other religions.

abraxas21
02-07-2012, 03:12 PM
You keep manipulating my words. I haven't uttered the word terrorism once yet. I said suicide bombings.

such a big manipulation....

The US has invaded other countries in the past, yet the only other instance in which they had to deal with regular suicide attacks was when they faced the Japanese kamikazes in WWII. The link between the two? You got it right: religion

not really. people from all countries, even western nations, have engaged in suicide attacks at some point, esp. in wars.

I am religiophobic.

doesn't make it any better. only worse, tbh.

i'll leave you a good opinion piece. don't think it'll make you change your mind but it might give you a different perspective:

Why the bombers are so angry at usBy Robert Pape
July 23, 2005

This month's London terrorist attacks are part of al-Qaeda's strategic logic, which has been pursued with increasing vigour in the past three years. Since 2002, al-Qaeda has carried out 17 suicide and other terrorist bombings that have killed nearly 700 people - more attacks and victims than in all the years before 9/11 combined.

Although many people have hoped that Western counter-terrorism efforts would have weakened al-Qaeda, by the measure that counts - the ability of the group to kill us - al-Qaeda is stronger today than before 2001.

The war on terrorism is heading south. The key reason is that the West's strategy for this war is fundamentally flawed. It presumes that suicide terrorism is mainly a product of an evil ideology called "Islamic fundamentalism" and that this ideology would produce campaigns of suicide terrorism wherever it exists and regardless of our military policies. This presumption is wrong, and is leading towards foreign policies that are making our situation worse.

I have studied every suicide terrorist attack around the world from 1980 to early 2004. More than half of all suicide attacks were carried out by secular groups and individuals. In fact, the world's leader in suicide terrorism was the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka, a Marxist group that is completely secular and that recruits from Hindus. More than a third of all suicide attacks by Muslims were also carried out by secular groups, such as the Kurdish PKK in Turkey and the Communist Party in Lebanon.

What more than 95 per cent of all suicide terrorist attacks around the world have in common is not religion, but a specific political goal to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland or prize greatly. From Lebanon to Sri Lanka to Chechnya to Kashmir to the West Bank, the central objective of every suicide terrorist campaign since 1980 has been to compel a democratic state with military forces on territory that the terrorists prize to take those forces out.
Although terrorist leaders may harbour other goals, history shows that the presence of foreign combat forces is the principal recruiting tool used by terrorist leaders to mobilise suicide terrorists to kill us.

In the early 1990s, the US abandoned its traditional policy in the Persian Gulf and shifted to the sustained presence of tens of thousands of combat forces, thousands of tanks, and hundreds of fighters on the Arabian Peninsula. Since then, Osama bin Laden has given numerous speeches to mobilise terrorists against the US. Many are entitled "The American occupation of the Arabian Peninsula", and typically begin with pages of detailed description of American and Western combat operations on this land.

From 1995 to 2004, there were a total of 71 al-Qaeda suicide terrorists - that is, 71 individuals who actually killed themselves to carry out al-Qaeda's attacks. More than two-thirds were nationals from Sunni Muslim countries where the US has stationed combat troops since 1990: Saudi Arabia, other states on the Arabian Peninsula, Turkey, and Afghanistan. Even the one-third of al-Qaeda suicide attackers that are more transnational in nature are powerfully motivated by anger over Western combat operations on the Arabian Peninsula. Thus, the al-Qaeda group that claimed responsibility for the London attacks said they were to punish Britain for British military operations in Iraq.

The British Home Office conducted a detailed survey of the attitudes of the 1.6 million Muslims living in Britain in April 2004, and found that, while 85 per cent condemned suicide terrorism, 13 per cent believed that more suicide attacks against the US and the West were justified. The survey went further to identify the specific reason: Iraq.

In other words, the principal factor driving support for suicide terrorism among British Muslims was not an evil ideology, but deep anger over British military policies on the Arabian Peninsula.

As we now know, the Bali bombings in October 2002 were an al-Qaeda suicide operation. Months before the Bali attack, a mid-level al-Qaeda leader met Indonesian terrorist groups to ask them to recruit local Indonesians for suicide attacks to punish Australia for sending combat troops to Afghanistan and to deter Australian forces from going to Iraq. The al-Qaeda operative selected the nightclubs for attack and paid $US20,000 ($A26,100) for the mission, while Indonesians angry at Australia's military operations in East Timor carried it out.

Since the London bombings, many are asking how local, middle-class, educated British Muslims could kill themselves to kill others. Alas, the answer is both simple and disturbing: deep anger at Western combat forces on the Arabian Peninsula.

As long as the war on terrorism ignores the actual strategic logic of suicide terrorism, it will be impossible to win and our actions may well end up helping terrorist leaders recruit many more suicide terrorists to kill us.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/why-the-bombers-are-so-angry-at-us/2005/07/22/1121539145036.html

abraxas21
02-09-2012, 01:02 AM
israel will attack iran any day now

vucina
02-09-2012, 08:44 AM
israel will attack iran any day now

...or you pay us money?

Mjau!
02-29-2012, 12:48 AM
US Intelligence Says Iran Not Developing Nukes

“Recent assessments by American spy agencies are broadly consistent with a 2007 intelligence finding that concluded that Iran had abandoned its nuclear weapons program years earlier,” the report said. “The officials said that assessment was largely reaffirmed in a 2010 National Intelligence Estimate, and that it remains the consensus view of America’s 16 intelligence agencies.”

The report points to testimony from James R. Clapper Jr., the director of national intelligence, David H. Petraeus, the C.I.A. director, Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta and Gen. Martin E. Dempsey, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, all in agreement that there is no military dimension to Iran’s nuclear program.

http://news.antiwar.com/2012/02/25/new-york-times-us-intelligence-says-iran-not-developing-nukes/

shiaben
02-29-2012, 06:55 AM
You cannot possibly be serious...

A claim is not valid unless it is grounded and substantiated. THAT is the way it works in all discussions. I can't just pull stuff out of my ass and pretend to get away with it just like that.



OK, let me break it down for you. Why do Palestinian people blow themselves up killing Israeli citizens? Does it have to do with ethnicity, or does it have to do with religion?

Neither.

It has to do with their land getting taken away (politics).

buddyholly
02-29-2012, 01:13 PM
Neither.

It has to do with their land getting taken away (politics).

I think it has more to do with religious Imams using innocent men, women and children to give up their lives in exchange for false promises?

How many Imams have been documented as brave enough to do what they preach?

Har-Tru
02-29-2012, 01:48 PM
Neither.

It has to do with their land getting taken away (politics).

It has to do with their religion telling them to sacrifice their lives while killing those who "take their land away".

peribsen
02-29-2012, 05:54 PM
it's more about ethnicity than religion, tbh

How can you, how can anyone, say this with a straight face?

Because it happens to be absolutely true?

The conflict between Israel and the Arab world did not start in 2001, nor during the rise to the forefront of extreme forms of Islam during the late 80s and 90s.

In fact, both Israel and Zionism are the children of socialdemocrat Jews who were as unreligious as they come. The Rabbis only signed up later. And Israel was created against the fierce opposition of the most irreligious generation of Arab leaders we have ever seen or are likely to see. Yasir Arafat, Nasser, Hafiz el-Assad, Ghaddafi, Saddam (and his predecessors since the 1950s)... none of them were particularly pious. While the PLO was headed for several decades by a group that included several prominent Christians, amog them the chairman of the Palestinian Parliament. Not to speak of Iran, of course, that Mossadegh's fall in 1954 (sponsored by UK & US) opened the way for the Ayatollahs is something too plain obvious for anybody to deny.

The religious aspect of the conflict only really flared much, much later, out of frustration at the failure of lay politicians to either solve the problem nor produce a working model for Arab modernity.

The role that the conflict with Israel -and by extension, the West- played in the later failure, has always played a huge part in explaining Arab hatred towards Israel; these were countries awakening from centuries of foreign domination -Otoman, Western-, who from the very start saw all their hopes for reform bogged down by the huge military and political costs of a conflict they had had no role in creating. The West chose to clean its dirty conscience for centuries of dismal treatment of the Jews on the backs of people who had treated them comparatively far better, and who were struggling themselves to find a place in the sun after colonialism.

It's particularly odious to see how a consequence of the conflict (the return to religious fundamentalism since the late 70s, out of frustration), can be spinned into a cause of the conflict. This reminds one of South Africa, where vicious abuse of blacks led some of them to violence... only for their violence to be used to justify even more vicious abuse.

Sad world. Is it really that radical to hope for justice for all?

shiaben
02-29-2012, 08:22 PM
In Islam suicide is haram (sinful) and one of the highest level sins. These Palestinians that blow themselves up do it as a last option KNOWING the high risk of going to hell in their beliefs is imminent. So it has nothing to do with the religion. You don't go to paradise for self-harm. That's BS.

shiaben
02-29-2012, 08:27 PM
israel will attack iran any day now

Doubtful.

They would carve out their own grave.

Instead, they'll continue to kill innocent lives (i.e. nuclear scientists in Iran).