Drugs [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Drugs

2003
02-04-2012, 10:32 AM
We include alcohol in here, is jsut as much a drug as anything else. Is just consumed as a drink like many others.

How do you feel about them?

Think they should all be legal? All illegal?

To balance the discussion, Marijuana and MDMA have never been solidly proved to do any harm to your physical health. Mental health can be a different story.

For example alcohol and tobacco harm your physical health more than Marijuana does. MDMA is hard to overdose on accidentally, and well, Marijuana is impossible to OD on.

On the other hand, Meth, Crack, Heroin do tremendous harm and are very fatal in certain quantities.

Whats the laws in your land, and whats your feelings on drugs?

electronicmusic
02-04-2012, 04:24 PM
Legal: alcohol

Illegal: rest (including cigarettes)

Voo de Mar
02-04-2012, 04:57 PM
In my opinion all drugs should be legal, but people should be properly informing which drug in which way is harmful for the health since the primary school. Drugs should be still banned in sport and people sentenced firmly after initiating car accidents or other accidents under specific substances. If someone is addicted should cover the costs of its treatment.

If someone takes drugs at home to get visions or partying as long as he/she doesn't disturb drastically the peace of others, there's no problem ethically from my point of view, whether it's marijuana or heroin.

Li Ching Yuen
02-04-2012, 05:28 PM
I'm currently on Viagra and Xanax.

emotion
02-04-2012, 05:30 PM
Should all be legal. Would reduce crime tremendously and marijuana being illegal is ridiculous
Who has the authority to decide what another should do privately and harmlessly?

ballbasher101
02-04-2012, 05:36 PM
I used to be open minded about drugs. That all changed when I shared a house friends who smoked pot every fucken day :mad:. If it was here and there I would not have minded but not everyday. These guys spent all their student loans on pot :o. At one time they took my rent money from my room without asking. I moved out and I have not seen or spoken to them again :woohoo:. Before they started taking drugs they were good people. Drugs are bad.

Jimnik
02-04-2012, 06:44 PM
All drugs should be legal.

I'm serious.

Sunset of Age
02-04-2012, 06:56 PM
All drugs should be legalized, provided that there will be proper education available about the risks (yes, even using marihuana has its risks - enhanced susceptibility to various mental diseases for those who have a disposition for getting those) to young people. Open, objective information/education I mean - no 'scaring off' people, and no 'advertising' of the stuff either. Just plain facts.

The morbidity and mortality rates caused by legal drugs (alcohol, cigarettes) greatly outnumber those of illegal drugs. The only effect you get with an endless 'War on Drugs' is criminals getting richer-and-richer because of it.

I used to be open minded about drugs. That all changed when I shared a house friends who smoked pot every fucken day :mad:. If it was here and there I would not have minded but not everyday. These guys spent all their student loans on pot :o. At one time they took my rent money from my room without asking. I moved out and I have not seen or spoken to them again :woohoo:. Before they started taking drugs they were good people. Drugs are bad.

These friends obviously had a massive (mental) addiction problem. Every day is just too much. There isn't much difference with folks emptying a bottle of whisky every day... Too much of any drug is always wrong. :shrug:

Johnny Groove
02-04-2012, 07:12 PM
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Certinfy
02-04-2012, 07:23 PM
Couldn't care less, I mean if people want to fuck up their own lives then I couldn't give a shit.

Sunset of Age
02-04-2012, 07:43 PM
Couldn't care less, I mean if people want to fuck up their own lives then I couldn't give a shit.

Sensible, limited, recreational use of drugs doesn't have to mean one is per sé 'fucking up his/her life'. Just like one can of beer won't harm you all that much, smoking a joint once in while doesn't either. :)

Orka_n
02-04-2012, 07:47 PM
Should be illegal.

BigJohn
02-04-2012, 07:58 PM
The only effect you get with an endless 'War on Drugs' is criminals getting richer-and-richer because of it.

Also getting richer: lawyers, law enforcers, those running the prison industrial complex...

These friends obviously had a massive (mental) addiction problem. Every day is just too much. There isn't much difference with folks emptying a bottle of whisky every day... Too much of any drug is always wrong. :shrug:

I don't believe everything is black and white in this case. Read this:

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2012/01/10/cdc-report-binge-drinking-rates-in-us-alarming/

The CDC found that more than 38 million Americans binge drink four times a month—consuming an average of eight drinks each time.

And it’s not just young adults. Although it is more common between the ages of 18-34, those 65 and older reportedly binge drink more often—five to six times a month.

The frequency of binge drinking is higher in households with an income of $75,000 or more. But the disturbing data found that the highest number of drinks consumed per occasion is by people living just above or below the poverty line, with eight to nine drinks per occasion.

Binge drinking is defined by the CDC as consuming five or more drinks for men and four or more drinks for women on a single occasion.


I know people who smoke pretty much everyday yet never get shit faced. I think people getting that drunk every week have an addiction problem, I don't think it applies to someone who smokes a tiny joint every night

How many people have wine everyday? Have a couple of beers right after coming home from work? Drinking or smoking everyday does not make people alcoholics or drug addicts. The amount is more telling.

EddceLLent
02-04-2012, 08:15 PM
I think it's all very well to say that drugs should be legalised as long as people are made aware of the risks but the fact remains that people can't always be relied upon to act rationally. We're creatures of emotion, our mood fluctuating constantly and our minds seeking to offload consciousness where it begins to feel uncomfortable. Even if the education is there (which it wont be) people will still take drugs because we aren't simply objective decision makers who will always decide "no I wont do this because drugs are bad". Even if we were, legalising drugs would open the floodgates to unscrupulous companies trying to convince us that we should take drugs.

Drugs should not be legalised. We should do whatever is necessary to prevent people from taking drugs in the first place. The idea that you can artificially alter your consciousness for your own benefit is a dangerous one - because who wouldn't want to do that?

The idea that by legalising drugs we'd be taking money away from criminals is nonsensical too. If only it were that simple that we had a section of society that readily fits into the category criminals. It's this petty lust for vengeance that gets us nowhere - after we're done punishing these people what are they going to do? Get an education and a job and join the society that's been intent on ostracising them? No...they're going to keep being criminals to the detriment of everyone else in society. By no means am I saying that the two aren't linked - but i'm certain that the proceeds of selling drugs are part of what keeps many criminals from indulging in more overt types of crime like robbery. I very much doubt that legalising drugs would lead to reductions in overall crime.

Jimnik
02-04-2012, 08:18 PM
The idea you should prevent people taking drugs in the first place is even more dangerous, as history has proven.

fast_clay
02-04-2012, 08:23 PM
all prohibition ever did was increase crime and the amount of black money in the system... those who follow the path of self-harming addiction were destined to in any world... the state has no place to put people in nappies and say 'naughty, naughty', it is up to the individual and those responsible for the individual in their formative years to know right from wrong and suffer the consequences for their actions...

illegal or not, people will find a way... the state should have only one position on this: a percentage of drug education in any school's curriculum from ages 12-15... 'visit-a-junkie-in-withdrawal-day'... awareness is all you can offer...

ballbasher101
02-04-2012, 08:33 PM
The drugs don't work, they just make you worse ;). Great song :worship:. Seriously drugs are bad. A number of people in the population have addictive personalities. Things will go tits up if drugs are legalised. It will be a free for all. Lets be real people who seriously wants a drug like cocaine to be legalised? The only drug that I can see being legalised is cannabis. I did a literature review on cannabis, that drug is not as safe as people say it is even though the human brain is pretty much wired for cannabis use. Very strange I must say.

EddceLLent
02-04-2012, 08:41 PM
all prohibition ever did was increase crime and the amount of black money in the system

Prohibition? really? it's a long time since the 1930s. This "black money" that you speak of, would you not rather that it's raised by selling people something they want rather than by mugging people? People who commit crime wont suddenly all turn legit if drugs are legalised, they'll turn to other types of crime to sustain themselves.

those who follow the path of self-harming addiction were destined to in any world

So do you just abandon them as lost causes?

the state has no place to put people in nappies and say 'naughty, naughty', it is up to the individual and those responsible for the individual in their formative years to know right from wrong and suffer the consequences for their actions...

Reality isn't as simple as right and wrong, no-one in the world can say they've never made a decision that, with hindsight, wasn't a rational one. Thus people can't be relied upon to not take drugs. Illegality as an extra incentive to not take drugs is a good idea if it results in less people becoming addicted.

Jimnik
02-04-2012, 08:46 PM
Illegality as an extra incentive to not take drugs is a good idea if it results in less people becoming addicted.
It doesn't. That's the point.

abraxas21
02-04-2012, 08:46 PM
legalize everything, imho

restrictions should be in place for people under 18/21 y.o. though

EddceLLent
02-04-2012, 08:51 PM
It doesn't. That's the point.

What a ridiculous comment. Of course it does! Are you honestly saying that if drugs were legal, and as such were being marketed persistently by companies selling them, that you don't think any more people would try them (and thus risk become addicted)??? What a ludicrous argument!!!

Jimnik
02-04-2012, 08:58 PM
What a ridiculous comment. Of course it does! Are you honestly saying that if drugs were legal, and as such were being marketed persistently by companies selling them, that you don't think any more people would try them (and thus risk become addicted)??? What a ludicrous argument!!!
Like most people nowadays you're deluded into thinking the government has the power to control everything. If you knew what it's really like on the streets, you wouldn't be making such naive comments. Fact is, right now, it's easier for 15 year old kids to get their hands on cocaine than alcohol. You really think drug dealers give a shit about the age of their customers? Repressing any industry down towards a black market always causes more problems than it solves.

leng jai
02-04-2012, 08:58 PM
This thread isn't very sexy 2003...

EddceLLent
02-04-2012, 09:21 PM
Like most people nowadays you're deluded into thinking the government has the power to control everything

That's not what I said, nor is it what could sensibly be assumed that I was implying. All i'm saying is that the government has control over what's legal and thus what you can be prosecuted for being in possession of. I'm not saying they have the power to stop people from being able to buy drugs, because I accept they're readily available if you know where to look, i'm simply saying the government's control over legislation is a factor which regulates the availability of drugs.

If you knew what it's really like on the streets, you wouldn't be making such naive comments

Lol! You know absolutely nothing about my background so i'm not sure what it is exactly that's informing you to make such assertions.

Fact is, right now, it's easier for 15 year old kids to get their hands on cocaine than alcohol.

...and you're basing this on what evidence?

You really think drug dealers give a shit about the age of their customers? Repressing any industry down towards a black market always causes more problems than it solves.

I didn't say anything about drug dealers worrying about the age of their customers :confused:

Drugs will always be available, but if they were legal they'd be more available, and marketed in such a way so as to try and convince people to buy them. This would, without any shadow of a doubt, result in more people taking drugs than you get at the moment. As such, a natural consequence of that would be that more people would become addicted to drugs.

You may get by with dealing in hyperbole normally but let's be honest, you're talking complete nonsense and you only have a point when you try to misrepresent me :)

fast_clay
02-04-2012, 09:32 PM
Prohibition? really? it's a long time since the 1930s. This "black money" that you speak of, would you not rather that it's raised by selling people something they want rather than by mugging people? People who commit crime wont suddenly all turn legit if drugs are legalised, they'll turn to other types of crime to sustain themselves.



So do you just abandon them as lost causes?



Reality isn't as simple as right and wrong, no-one in the world can say they've never made a decision that, with hindsight, wasn't a rational one. Thus people can't be relied upon to not take drugs. Illegality as an extra incentive to not take drugs is a good idea if it results in less people becoming addicted.

survival of the fittest, smartest... are you gonna let the populace evolve or not...?

what are your experiences with drugs...? most open minded people would have a qualified opinion...

america's war on drugs is a classic example... it only ever targeted disadvantaged social groups... and did the problem end...? it is growing... the U.S. penal system is so clogged full of minorities doing time for petty crime...

the world is full of bad things eddcellent... make them illegal doesn't make them disappear...

fast_clay
02-04-2012, 09:33 PM
...and you're basing this on what evidence?


common sense would say... in the suburbs of most western countries...

BigJohn
02-04-2012, 09:35 PM
...and you're basing this on what evidence?


I don't think there is any kind if issues with drugs in US high schools anymore. If there ever was one to start with, it might be just a myth.

Thanks to clever information campaigns.

http://stopthedrugwar.org/files/marijuanamakesyougay.jpg

Jimnik
02-04-2012, 09:49 PM
That's not what I said, nor is it what could sensibly be assumed that I was implying. All i'm saying is that the government has control over what's legal and thus what you can be prosecuted for being in possession of. I'm not saying they have the power to stop people from being able to buy drugs, because I accept they're readily available if you know where to look, i'm simply saying the government's control over legislation is a factor which regulates the availability of drugs.


Lol! You know absolutely nothing about my background so i'm not sure what it is exactly that's informing you to make such assertions.


...and you're basing this on what evidence?


I didn't say anything about drug dealers worrying about the age of their customers :confused:

Drugs will always be available, but if they were legal they'd be more available, and marketed in such a way so as to try and convince people to buy them. This would, without any shadow of a doubt, result in more people taking drugs than you get at the moment. As such, a natural consequence of that would be that more people would become addicted to drugs.

You may get by with dealing in hyperbole normally but let's be honest, you're talking complete nonsense and you only have a point when you try to misrepresent me :)
So you're saying they have control but they can't stop people buying drugs? You have any idea how ridiculous you sound? You're happy if you can make it hard enough for people to find a black market dealer to buy their stash. You think that's enough to prove the government is doing its job.

You want evidence? Here you go:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/2010/061.pdf
The US DEA has actually done a good job lowering illegal drug use in 16-17 year-olds from nearly 25% in 1999 to 16% in 2009. It's still a very high figure and has cost American tax-payers billions of dollars.

If you can acknowledge the fact dealers don't care who they're selling to then it shouldn't be hard for you to figure out it's easier for kids to get illegal than legal drugs. A licensed liquor store has motivation to refuse underage customers. What motivation does a dealer have? Even you should be able to put two and two together.

No I don't know your background, nor do you know mine. But let's be honest, I don't need to know your entire background and history to tell you're totally ignorant on this issue.

2003
02-04-2012, 09:59 PM
If you can acknowledge the fact dealers don't care who they're selling to then it shouldn't be hard for you to figure out it's easier for kids to get illegal than legal drugs. A licensed liquor store has motivation to refuse underage customers. What motivation does a dealer have? Even you should be able to put two and two together.

No I don't know your background, nor do you know mine. But let's be honest, I don't need to know your entire background and history to tell you're totally ignorant on this issue.

Actually, your wrong.

Liquor is in mummy and daddys cabinet, Heroin isnt.

Similarly, mummy and daddy (or mummy and daddy of friends) can buy it for them legally.

Older friends can also go and buy it for younger ones, and older boyfriend can go and buy it for younger girlfriend and girlfriends friends.

I will say though some drugs might be more cost effective for teens.

EddceLLent
02-04-2012, 09:59 PM
survival of the fittest, smartest... are you gonna let the populace evolve or not...?

Morality and compassion are what make us better than animals.

the world is full of bad things eddcellent... make them illegal doesn't make them disappear...

My argument isn't that illegality makes problems disappear, it's that legality opens up new avenues that'll result in people taking drugs who wouldn't otherwise be doing so.

what are your experiences with drugs...?

I smoked weed for 5 years, a lot of that time I did it pretty much constantly. I was depressed before I started and so thought, contrary to what my friends told me, that my continued drug use wasn't relevant to my continued depression. It was a crux, whenever I wanted to "get away" from my thoughts i'd get high without realising that it stopped me from ever properly confronting stuff. It made me less able to deal with adversity without resorting to drugs. It was difficult to stop, but I haven't smoked for like a year.

Jimnik
02-04-2012, 10:06 PM
Actually, your wrong.

Liquor is in mummy and daddys cabinet, Heroin isnt.

Similarly, mummy and daddy (or mummy and daddy of friends) can buy it for them legally.

Older friends can also go and buy it for younger ones, and older boyfriend can go and buy it for younger girlfriend and girlfriends friends.

I will say though some drugs might be more cost effective for teens.
Depends what kind of mummy and daddy you have.

Maybe I was exaggerating to say it's easier to get your hands on them but it's certainly easier for high school teens to buy illegal drugs. Obviously there's always a way to get your hands on anything.

EddceLLent
02-04-2012, 10:17 PM
So you're saying they have control but they can't stop people buying drugs? You have any idea how ridiculous you sound? You're happy if you can make it hard enough for people to find a black market dealer to buy their stash. You think that's enough to prove the government is doing its job.

No lol. I'm not saying that at all. Read what I said - which is that the government controls legislation and so can prosecute people for possession of drugs. Prosecuting drug dealers is more a police issue than a government one. All i'm saying is that more people would have access to drugs if they were legal, i'm not making any kind of comment about the effectiveness of strategies implemented to prosecute those involved in the sale of drugs.

You want evidence? Here you go:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/2010/061.pdf
The US DEA has actually done a good job lowering illegal drug use in 16-17 year-olds from nearly 25% in 1999 to 16% in 2009. It's still a very high figure and has cost American tax-payers billions of dollars.

You claimed that it's easier for kids to get hold of cocaine than alcohol. These statistics show a higher percentage of kids have used alcohol than have other drugs. Cocaine isn't specifically mentioned - this doesn't back up what you originally said.

If you can acknowledge the fact dealers don't care who they're selling to then it shouldn't be hard for you to figure out it's easier for kids to get illegal than legal drugs. A licensed liquor store has motivation to refuse underage customers. What motivation does a dealer have? Even you should be able to put two and two together.

Buying drugs from a dealer is pretty much the only way to buy drugs. There's easier ways to get alcohol than over the counter - get someone else to buy it for you, steal it from parents at home, i'm sure a lot of parents actually allow their kids to have alcohol knowingly anyway. Your own statistics show alcohol usage rates are higher than drug usage rates!!

No I don't know your background, nor do you know mine. But let's be honest, I don't need to know your entire background and history to tell you're totally ignorant on this issue.

Lol! The difference is that you've made assumptions about me without knowing. If ever there were a sign of ignorance...

fast_clay
02-04-2012, 10:19 PM
Morality and compassion are what make us better than animals.

education and awareness is about the only morality and compassion required on this issue in my opinion... the attempt to save the doomed is a black hole...


My argument isn't that illegality makes problems disappear, it's that legality opens up new avenues that'll result in people taking drugs who wouldn't otherwise be doing so.



legality turns the light on... the avenues will forever exist, however with legality the avenues are open to scrutiny... what would you rather going up your veins... the known, or unknown...?

let the people make their choice and make it safely... that is compassion for you...

EddceLLent
02-04-2012, 10:19 PM
Maybe I was exaggerating

This

EddceLLent
02-04-2012, 10:25 PM
education and awareness is about the only morality and compassion required on this issue in my opinion... the attempt to save the doomed is a black hole...

Will you still be of the same opinion when this section of society that you've completely written off as "doomed" is burgling your house to afford their next fix? You can't just ignore problems like that or they'll come back to bite you in the arse (yes, i'm British :D)

legality turns the light on... the avenues exist, however with legality the avenues are open to scrutiny... what would you rather going up your veins... the known, or unknown...?

let the people make their choice and make it safely... that is compassion for you...

I think the number of people consuming the drugs is far more important than the purity of the drugs that are being consumed. If illegality means less people consume drugs then that's what I support.

Jimnik
02-04-2012, 10:29 PM
No lol. I'm not saying that at all. Read what I said - which is that the government controls legislation and so can prosecute people for possession of drugs. Prosecuting drug dealers is more a police issue than a government one. All i'm saying is that more people would have access to drugs if they were legal, i'm not making any kind of comment about the effectiveness of strategies implemented to prosecute those involved in the sale of drugs.


You claimed that it's easier for kids to get hold of cocaine than alcohol. These statistics show a higher percentage of kids have used alcohol than have other drugs. Cocaine isn't specifically mentioned - this doesn't back up what you originally said.


Buying drugs from a dealer is pretty much the only way to buy drugs. There's easier ways to get alcohol than over the counter - get someone else to buy it for you, steal it from parents at home, i'm sure a lot of parents actually allow their kids to have alcohol knowingly anyway. Your own statistics show alcohol usage rates are higher than drug usage rates!!


Lol! The difference is that you've made assumptions about me without knowing. If ever there were a sign of ignorance...
Fair enough. I take back my ignorant comment.

But regarding the statistics, of course people will never consume more hard than soft drugs, legal or illegal. The fact illegal substances are still tried by over half the alcohol consumers to me makes it obvious the police have no control over the situation. But I guess I can understand if you interpret it differently. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Sunset of Age
02-04-2012, 10:36 PM
The idea you should prevent people taking drugs in the first place is even more dangerous, as history has proven.

It doesn't. That's the point.

Unfortunately, this is what history tells.
Banning drugs has NEVER ever stopped anyone using them. It's "Human Nature".

Why is it so hard to just remain realistic and just admit that wherever there's drugs, people will use them? Why is it so hard to at least try and give people proper education about both the pleasures and the risks? :shrug:

Naudio Spanlatine
02-04-2012, 10:53 PM
I wish they legalize marijiana in america, instead of cigarettes:rolleyes:

fast_clay
02-04-2012, 10:53 PM
Will you still be of the same opinion when this section of society that you've completely written off as "doomed" is burgling your house to afford their next fix? You can't just ignore problems like that or they'll come back to bite you in the arse (yes, i'm British :D)



I think the number of people consuming the drugs is far more important than the purity of the drugs that are being consumed. If illegality means less people consume drugs then that's what I support.

i lived in the uk for a while once upon a time... if junkies are regularly targeting your house, then time to move down to the road... about a kilometre made the difference... from boscombe to southbourne... no dramas there...

and the addiction treatment centres in boscombe don't really work as intended... the re-use rate once treatment was completed is sickenly high - dealers have an audience they don't need to search for... actually, the treatment centres in boscombe were actually a money making venture - the more offenders seeking help, the more private and state money... 'welcome back Mr Birtwhistle'

so... you know...

Orka_n
02-05-2012, 12:22 AM
People can't be trusted to take care of themselves. Legalize drugs and they will of course get easier to obtain, which I think will eventually lead to more people becoming addicted and more lives ruined. I for one don't share this "if people want to destroy themselves, then let them"-attitude. (Besides, if a person becomes an addict, there is seldom only 1 person who suffers.)

Sunset of Age
02-05-2012, 12:55 AM
People can't be trusted to take care of themselves. Legalize drugs and they will of course get easier to obtain, which I think will eventually lead to more people becoming addicted and more lives ruined. I for one don't share this "if people want to destroy themselves, then let them"-attitude. (Besides, if a person becomes an addict, there is seldom only 1 person who suffers.)

Isn't that a bit 'patronizing' to say, at the least?
Many folks use drugs (alcohol, cigarettes, pot, whatever), for incidental recreational use, without getting into any kind of trouble at all.

Legalizing certain drugs might of course make some of them easier to obtain, but still, the officially legalized drugs make a lot more of casualties than the forbidden ones so far... :shrug:
Forbidding stuff has NEVER ever stopped folks from using it.

It all comes down to proper eduction and information. IMHO.

Gagsquet
02-05-2012, 01:01 AM
I can only speak about my own experience but drugs are everywhere in Jamaica. The street sale of drugs is a sad pandemic that has corroded society and led to frightening levels of violence. However, possession and use of drugs in Jamaica is strictly illegal and penalties are severe. But legalizing it couldn't solve the problem in term of public health but it could reduce the violence so we can't exclude this possibility.

Orka_n
02-05-2012, 01:26 AM
Isn't that a bit 'patronizing' to say, at the least?
Many folks use drugs (alcohol, cigarettes, pot, whatever), for incidental recreational use, without getting into any kind of trouble at all.Alright, some people can't be trusted to take care of themselves.
Legalizing certain drugs might of course make some of them easier to obtain, but still, the officially legalized drugs make a lot more of casualties than the forbidden ones so far... :shrug:Indeed. In part because the illegal ones are harder to obtain.
Forbidding stuff has NEVER ever stopped folks from using it.What? Of course it has. Perhaps not completely but certainly to a certain degree. You might have a point in a scenario where a person really is HELL-bent on getting the stuff in question, but we're talking ordinary folk here. If something is difficult to obtain, then a lot of curious people will consider it not worth the trouble.
It all comes down to proper eduction and information. IMHO.You may call me patronizing but this is borderline naive. People aren't smart/mature enough, especially not when there's peer pressure involved.

Lopez
02-05-2012, 02:02 AM
I'm a bit torn on the issue. I'd say that when a drug has become commonplace enough in a society that people use it often and its socially widely accepted, then it should be made legal as in this case illegality is just wasting money. This, I feel, is the case of kannabis/marijuana in most Western civilizations.

However, rarely used drugs, some of which can be very addictive, should perhaps stay illegal as then legalizing might only inspire more use and more lives ruined.

I understand the civil liberties point as well though.

Kat_YYZ
02-05-2012, 03:52 AM
It all comes down to proper eduction and information. IMHO.

I used to think this way. But I've seen too much that leaves me shaking my head. It gives me no joy to say it, but education doesn't work.

You know how many young people end up drugged out of their minds or dead?? Did they ALL have bad parents who didn't talk to them about the dangers? Come on. I've seen it happen to people who had great parents.

As I'm typing this, someone in a first-world country is heading out to the club in hopes of getting lucky with a stranger. And they aren't bringing any condoms with them. Now unless you've been living under a rock for 25 years, you know about AIDS (not to mention unwanted pregnancy). They know; they just choose to disregard.

People have unprecedented amounts of information at their fingertips, yet they are now even eating themselves into obesity, disease and death (with legal and healthy substances... like food!).

George Burns smoked for 80 years and lived to be 100. Steven Tyler snorted half of Colombia in the 70s and 80s and he lived.
It won't happen to me. It won't happen to me.

There is no education against this attitude.

arm
02-05-2012, 05:11 PM
To balance the discussion, Marijuana and MDMA have never been solidly proved to do any harm to your physical health. Mental health can be a different story.

For example alcohol and tobacco harm your physical health more than Marijuana does.

You keep telling yourself that. :smoke: it's not true, unfortunately.

Sensible, limited, recreational use of drugs doesn't have to mean one is per sé 'fucking up his/her life'. Just like one can of beer won't harm you all that much, smoking a joint once in while doesn't either. :)

I agree that is the case with some drugs such as cannabis. But there is no such thing as a "sensible, limited, recreational" use of heroin for example..

This thread isn't very sexy 2003...

:worship: :lol:

I used to think this way. But I've seen too much that leaves me shaking my head. It gives me no joy to say it, but education doesn't work.

You know how many young people end up drugged out of their minds or dead?? Did they ALL have bad parents who didn't talk to them about the dangers? Come on. I've seen it happen to people who had great parents.

As I'm typing this, someone in a first-world country is heading out to the club in hopes of getting lucky with a stranger. And they aren't bringing any condoms with them. Now unless you've been living under a rock for 25 years, you know about AIDS (not to mention unwanted pregnancy). They know; they just choose to disregard.

People have unprecedented amounts of information at their fingertips, yet they are now even eating themselves into obesity, disease and death (with legal and healthy substances... like food!).

George Burns smoked for 80 years and lived to be 100. Steven Tyler snorted half of Colombia in the 70s and 80s and he lived.
It won't happen to me. It won't happen to me.

There is no education against this attitude.

I agree with kat. I am a medical student, we are educated people who have studied the issue many times in many different subjects, we are as informed as it gets, and yet you would be surprised to find out how many of us use drugs in a non-sensible and recreational way.

v-money
02-06-2012, 01:28 AM
I enjoy marijuana but there is always a risk of using it because it is illegal. I'm a pretty frequent user and I don't think it's had any adverse side effects on me because I have a vaporizer for health reasons and I try not to use it if I have a busy schedule. I think it is a dangerous drug because I have seen other college students have their grades drop significantly because of careless use. Nevertheless, the drug itself is relatively harmless, compared to something like alcohol, so I think the illegal status is silly.

Kratom has been another go to drug for me lately. This one is legal, but I try to limit it because it has a physically addictive aspect. It also kills my apatite and I can't sleep while high on it.

Honestly, every drug has some bad aspects but I don't think that should mean the government should throw huge resources at trying to control them, especially if the drug is non addictive or doesn't have a fatal dose.

tripwires
02-06-2012, 02:53 AM
I'm Singaporean. We have some of the strictest and harshest anti-drugs laws in the world with the mandatory death penalty in place for trafficking. While I vehemently oppose the death penalty and the mandatory death penalty for trafficking, I can't complain about the mostly drug-free society that I live in. From my experience, the biggest worry that parents have in general is whether their son would take up smoking in the army (mandatory national service here for boys) - a rather trivial concern compared to other countries where drugs are more easily available. Call me insufferably straight-edged if you must (I would whole-heartedly agree actually); but I am completely unsympathetic to the mostly-Western view on drugs, that 1) it's okay in small doses as long as it doesn't harm the user; and 2) it should be legalised to control distribution. In fact, if I had it my way, I'd ban the living shit out of cigarettes as well.

I don't appreciate a lot of things about my country but I am definitely thankful to live in a relatively drug-free society.

2003
02-06-2012, 05:21 AM
You keep telling yourself that. :smoke: it's not true, unfortunately.

Isn't it?

Weed is a natural herb. It doesnt do anything to your physical health.

E doesnt either. The spinal fluid stuff is a myth.

And I dont even do either.

arm
02-06-2012, 10:03 AM
Isn't it?

Weed is a natural herb. It doesnt do anything to your physical health.

E doesnt either. The spinal fluid stuff is a myth.

And I dont even do either.

Cannabis:

- it does cause lung cancer and other respiratory tract cancers (larynx, etc...)
- causes or worsens some lung diseases such as chronic bonchitis
- damages memory and concentration
- testicular atrophy and impotence
- it has also been linked to testicle cancer (but investigation is still going on to prove this, I think)

This is what I know. :)

leng jai
02-06-2012, 10:11 AM
You should stick to topics you're an expert in 2003 ie. moustaches, sex and women.

bokehlicious
02-06-2012, 11:41 AM
Cannabis:

- it does cause lung cancer and other respiratory tract cancers (larynx, etc...)
- causes or worsens some lung diseases such as chronic bonchitis
- damages memory and concentration
- testicular atrophy and impotence
- it has also been linked to testicle cancer (but investigation is still going on to prove this, I think)

This is what I know. :)

Tobacco has the same kind of effects. And alcohol side effects are way worse, check WHO's reviews on the matter.

arm
02-06-2012, 11:43 AM
Tobacco has the same kind of effects. And alcohol side effects are way worse, check WHO's reviews on the matter.

I know! I'm not saying otherwise. I actually believe cannabis should be legalized. I was just letting him know that unlike what he believed, cannabis can hurt your body if you don't know how to use it. ;)

JolánGagó
02-06-2012, 04:13 PM
People can't be trusted to take care of themselves. Legalize drugs and they will of course get easier to obtain, which I think will eventually lead to more people becoming addicted and more lives ruined. I for one don't share this "if people want to destroy themselves, then let them"-attitude. (Besides, if a person becomes an addict, there is seldom only 1 person who suffers.)

:haha: so we need whom to?

All drugs should be legal. State's role should be limited to adequate regulation, as it currently does with alcohol and tobaco, and make sure proper information is available, specially for youngsters.

JolánGagó
02-06-2012, 04:24 PM
Alright, some people can't be trusted to take care of themselves.

I take it you aren't among those... so you decide for the less lucky others.

Indeed. In part because the illegal ones are harder to obtain.
What? Of course it has. Perhaps not completely but certainly to a certain degree. You might have a point in a scenario where a person really is HELL-bent on getting the stuff in question, but we're talking ordinary folk here. If something is difficult to obtain, then a lot of curious people will consider it not worth the trouble.
You may call me patronizing but this is borderline naive. People aren't smart/mature enough, especially not when there's peer pressure involved.

But again, you surely are...

Action Jackson
02-06-2012, 04:33 PM
Pot should be legalised. As for the others, well heroin I can't stand but it's not going to go away. I'd rather it was done with clean needles and injecting rooms under supervision.

v-money
02-06-2012, 04:58 PM
Cannabis:

- it does cause lung cancer and other respiratory tract cancers (larynx, etc...)
- causes or worsens some lung diseases such as chronic bonchitis
- damages memory and concentration
- testicular atrophy and impotence
- it has also been linked to testicle cancer (but investigation is still going on to prove this, I think)

This is what I know. :)

Only some of these are effects of marijuana use, the rest are attributed solely to smoking the plant because you are inhaling all of the harmful products of the combustion cycle. THC or other cannabinoids may be pretty safe if they are not taken in by burning the plant, although research is lacking. Smoking anything is bad for the lungs and very seldom do I smoke marijuana anymore because of this danger.

alfonsojose
02-06-2012, 05:06 PM
All drugs should be banned.

Smoke944
02-06-2012, 05:23 PM
Cannabis:

- it does cause lung cancer and other respiratory tract cancers (larynx, etc...)
- causes or worsens some lung diseases such as chronic bonchitis
- damages memory and concentration
- testicular atrophy and impotence
- it has also been linked to testicle cancer (but investigation is still going on to prove this, I think)

This is what I know. :)

Please...maybe if you smoke joints like they are cigarettes. Bigger problem then would be the thousands of dollars you are spending.

Jimnik
02-06-2012, 05:53 PM
Pot should be legalised. As for the others, well heroin I can't stand but it's not going to go away. I'd rather it was done with clean needles and injecting rooms under supervision.
Heroin is very tricky. I think it's the one drug I'm not sure where I stand on. Legal or illegal, I'm open for arguments either side.

EddieNero
02-06-2012, 05:53 PM
I believe weed should be legal, it does less damage to your health than alcohol yet remains regarded as more dangerous for young people.
And I don't whether all those mental effects such as memory/concentration loss are confirmed by any research, it's rather a part of anti-weed propaganda.
If you want to save your own children from getting dumb or addicted, keep them away from alcohol at the firs place.

Sham Kay
02-06-2012, 07:03 PM
Might as well have em all be legal. As long as they stick to damaging their own health, drug takers might as well have some fun with their highs.

Doing drugs in privacy without affecting the rest of society is fine with me. This includes ordinary fag smoking. Unfortunately people are still allowed to smoke fags in public. This must change. It's more of a problem than the banned drugs IMO.

Dini
02-06-2012, 07:23 PM
Might as well have em all be legal. As long as they stick to damaging their own health, drug takers might as well have some fun with their highs.

Doing drugs in privacy without affecting the rest of society is fine with me. This includes ordinary fag smoking. Unfortunately people are still allowed to smoke fags in public. This must change. It's more of a problem than the banned drugs IMO.

Let's take an example of a legal drug: alcohol. Who cleans up after people following one too many drinks? Hospitals and the police. Alcohol costs NHS £3bn a year (money that could cover 170 000 kidney transplants) and is the cause of over one million visits to hospitals in the UK (source (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/5561217/3bn-cost-of-alcohol-to-NHS-every-year.html)). It's all fine saying that as long as they keep the damage to themseleves but that's based on the presumption that everyone is moderate and sensible, which facts prove isn't the case.

I'm not saying illegalise everything but I'd wish people would think about the consequences on a large scale before being so black and white about their opinions. I think most countries have their hands full with people going awry with alcohol and tobacco already; legalising cocaine, heroin would only serve to increase its users and inevitable addicts - thus serving to be another potential headache for health services etc.

EddceLLent
02-06-2012, 07:29 PM
Unfortunately, this is what history tells.
Banning drugs has NEVER ever stopped anyone using them. It's "Human Nature".

The point isn't who will be stopped by illegality, because of course it would be unrealistic to hope that all drug use could be stopped, it's who will be drawn into taking drugs for the first time by legality and the subsequent commercialisation of drugs.

i lived in the uk for a while once upon a time... if junkies are regularly targeting your house, then time to move down to the road... about a kilometre made the difference... from boscombe to southbourne... no dramas there...

You misinterpreted my point, I don't regularly get targeted by junkies. My point was that by legalising drugs you'd take away their main source of income and so they'd most likely turn to other types of crime (like robbery).

People can't be trusted to take care of themselves. Legalize drugs and they will of course get easier to obtain, which I think will eventually lead to more people becoming addicted and more lives ruined. I for one don't share this "if people want to destroy themselves, then let them"-attitude. (Besides, if a person becomes an addict, there is seldom only 1 person who suffers.)

People aren't smart/mature enough, especially not when there's peer pressure involved.

I completely agree with this.

Isn't that a bit 'patronizing' to say, at the least?
Many folks use drugs (alcohol, cigarettes, pot, whatever), for incidental recreational use, without getting into any kind of trouble at all.

But the argument isn't about people who don't get in trouble. You don't have a solution for the people who do have problems - all you're saying is let them rue their mistakes...but that wont stop them from being a problem to society.

I used to think this way. But I've seen too much that leaves me shaking my head. It gives me no joy to say it, but education doesn't work.

You know how many young people end up drugged out of their minds or dead?? Did they ALL have bad parents who didn't talk to them about the dangers? Come on. I've seen it happen to people who had great parents.

As I'm typing this, someone in a first-world country is heading out to the club in hopes of getting lucky with a stranger. And they aren't bringing any condoms with them. Now unless you've been living under a rock for 25 years, you know about AIDS (not to mention unwanted pregnancy). They know; they just choose to disregard.

People have unprecedented amounts of information at their fingertips, yet they are now even eating themselves into obesity, disease and death (with legal and healthy substances... like food!).

George Burns smoked for 80 years and lived to be 100. Steven Tyler snorted half of Colombia in the 70s and 80s and he lived.
It won't happen to me. It won't happen to me.

There is no education against this attitude.

I wish I could've said it as well as you :)

Orka_n
02-06-2012, 08:56 PM
I take it you aren't among those... so you decide for the less lucky others.Wrong. I actually count myself as one of those incapable of making the right decisions all the time. Also, I find your obsession with my posts cute. Might wanna relax a bit though, bitterness will hardly make your life better.

2003
02-06-2012, 10:29 PM
You can avoid all the lung cancer issues by taking THC in other ways. Like eating it in cookies/cakes or even drinks.
And the casual joint smoking is not going to be enough to harm your lungs anyway.

Impotence and memory issues, yes you are right.

I just dont really consider those to be up there.

I mean in terms of like Alcohol can actually kill you, give you liver disease, its a poison. Thats what I consider harmfull.

Impotence and memory issues/laziness for sure are negative things. And people need to be aware of it.

But I wouldnt call that harmfull.

Cancer and Liver cirrosis is what id call harmfull, but thats just me.

arm
02-06-2012, 11:10 PM
You can avoid all the lung cancer issues by taking THC in other ways. Like eating it in cookies/cakes or even drinks.
And the casual joint smoking is not going to be enough to harm your lungs anyway.

Impotence and memory issues, yes you are right.

I just dont really consider those to be up there.

I mean in terms of like Alcohol can actually kill you, give you liver disease, its a poison. Thats what I consider harmfull.

Impotence and memory issues/laziness for sure are negative things. And people need to be aware of it.

But I wouldnt call that harmfull.

Cancer and Liver cirrosis is what id call harmfull, but thats just me.

Like I have said before, I am all for cannabis legalization, and I do agree that the way alcohol is being used, it ends up being far more harmful.

I just made that list to alert you that the whole "cannabis is not harmful at all" thing is a myth.

Macbrother
02-07-2012, 12:49 AM
By show of hands, who here in this thread is going to start using Heroin if it becomes legal? Anyone? Didn't think so. Just because something is legalized doesn't mean there's going to be a sudden surge and increase of drug use in question -- most people are sensible and reasonable and don't need to be told what to, and not to do. Where is personal responsibility? If people are too dumb, immature, and irrational to be told what personal recreation they can do why stop there? Why not tell them what they can watch, how they're allowed to spend their money, how they're allowed to spend their time, for christ's sake?

By the way, those on the other side, don't be pretentious enough to ask someone for evidence when you have provided zero yourself in regards to what quantity of people, if any, are prevented from drug use via drug laws. All we know for sure is that we have created a massive, billion dollar black market industry and lost billions in prison-care and police enforcement that could be spent on A) education or B) quelling the massive state/national debt that we are burying ourselves under.

2003
02-07-2012, 01:01 AM
Appreciated :)

Theres very few things on earth that are totally harmless in certain contexts.

I will say though, most parents these days would rather their kids relaxed somewhere and smoked pot than did alcohol and all its baggage it comes with.

That really says something doesnt it.

In saying that though, once you have kids a lot changes. I mean its hard to imagine being the best parent if your blazed out of your mind all the time.

tripwires
02-07-2012, 01:13 AM
By show of hands, who here in this thread is going to start using Heroin if it becomes legal? Anyone? Didn't think so. Just because something is legalized doesn't mean there's going to be a sudden surge and increase of drug use in question -- most people are sensible and reasonable and don't need to be told what to, and not to do. Where is personal responsibility? If people are too dumb, immature, and irrational to be told what personal recreation they can do why stop there? Why not tell them what they can watch, how they're allowed to spend their money, how they're allowed to spend their time, for christ's sake?

By the way, those on the other side, don't be pretentious enough to ask someone for evidence when you have provided zero yourself in regards to what quantity of people, if any, are prevented from drug use via drug laws. All we know for sure is that we have created a massive, billion dollar black market industry and lost billions in prison-care and police enforcement that could be spent on A) education or B) quelling the massive state/national debt that we are burying ourselves under.

I highly doubt that the kind of people who would start using heroin if it is legalised are also the kind who would be discussing whether or not drugs should be legalised in an Internet forum.

Also, surely there is a stark difference between drug usage/abuse and what movie to watch on a Saturday night.

Macbrother
02-07-2012, 01:35 AM
I highly doubt that the kind of people who would start using heroin if it is legalised are also the kind who would be discussing whether or not drugs should be legalised in an Internet forum.

Also, surely there is a stark difference between drug usage/abuse and what movie to watch on a Saturday night.

So we're smarter, better, and more capable of rational decision than the populace? You have a mighty high opinion of MTF posters, then. To your latter point -- it's a slippery slope, when you take away one freedom, it becomes much easier to take away others. What if someone goes out, watches a movie, then commits violence. Should the movie be banned? Should controls be put in about who goes sees what, when, where? It's been discussed before.

tripwires
02-07-2012, 02:11 AM
So we're smarter, better, and more capable of rational decision than the populace? You have a mighty high opinion of MTF posters, then. To your latter point -- it's a slippery slope, when you take away one freedom, it becomes much easier to take away others. What if someone goes out, watches a movie, then commits violence. Should the movie be banned? Should controls be put in about who goes sees what, when, where? It's been discussed before.

I couldn't disagree more with your latter point. In the first place, is the "freedom" to abuse drugs really one worth protecting? In the second place, equating drug abuse to the possible but not definite effects of a violent movie on an individual is stretching the argument a bit too far. Heroin has detrimental effects on any individual who uses it; a violent movie, on the other hand, is unlikely to cause just any viewer to go out and commit violence. The inherent harm in the two activities is surely obvious.

I am absolutely banned by my government from abusing drugs, including marijuana, but I'm pretty much free to watch whatever movie I desire. I find my country overly draconian when it comes to the many limits that it places on individual liberty; but I am extremely thankful to live in a relatively drugs-free country. And I wouldn't trade this security and freedom from fear for any championing of some ill-defined "freedom" of the individual (a stupid one, really) to abuse drugs.

But of course, I'm only speaking from my own experience. I realise that Singapore's probably easier to regulate because we're such a small country and the US has its own hosts of problems. I just think there's something morally repugnant about the idea of legalising drugs in general, and I have experienced first-hand how tight controls can be beneficial to a society. I wouldn't want it any other way.

Jimnik
02-07-2012, 02:32 AM
Let's take an example of a legal drug: alcohol. Who cleans up after people following one too many drinks? Hospitals and the police. Alcohol costs NHS £3bn a year (money that could cover 170 000 kidney transplants) and is the cause of over one million visits to hospitals in the UK (source (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/5561217/3bn-cost-of-alcohol-to-NHS-every-year.html)). It's all fine saying that as long as they keep the damage to themseleves but that's based on the presumption that everyone is moderate and sensible, which facts prove isn't the case.

I'm not saying illegalise everything but I'd wish people would think about the consequences on a large scale before being so black and white about their opinions. I think most countries have their hands full with people going awry with alcohol and tobacco already; legalising cocaine, heroin would only serve to increase its users and inevitable addicts - thus serving to be another potential headache for health services etc.
Interesting Telegraph article.

This is more of a problem related to how the NHS works than alcohol itself. When you have a free service, people take advantage. They have a license to risk their own health and not worry about the consequences. According to the article, British teenagers are the 3rd worst binge drinkers in Europe behind Denmark and Isle of Man. Coincidentally those two countries also have government healthcare.

£3bn is less than 3% of the NHS total budget. Considering 50% of the population drink regularly, if anything, it's surprisingly low. I'd love to know how much smoking costs the NHS.

Jimnik
02-07-2012, 02:53 AM
People can't be trusted to take care of themselves. Legalize drugs and they will of course get easier to obtain, which I think will eventually lead to more people becoming addicted and more lives ruined. I for one don't share this "if people want to destroy themselves, then let them"-attitude. (Besides, if a person becomes an addict, there is seldom only 1 person who suffers.)
Most ridiculous comment in this entire thread.

Typical liberal logic. Governments implicitly have the power to force people to be responsible. If this was the case then why do 30% of teenagers take substances they're suppose to have no access to.

Governments are people too. What makes them so much more responsible than the rest of us?


Doing drugs in privacy without affecting the rest of society is fine with me. This includes ordinary fag smoking. Unfortunately people are still allowed to smoke fags in public. This must change. It's more of a problem than the banned drugs IMO.
Totally agree. This is also far more feasible. The idea of controlling certain designated areas vs trying to police every square inch of the country.


But the argument isn't about people who don't get in trouble. You don't have a solution for the people who do have problems - all you're saying is let them rue their mistakes...but that wont stop them from being a problem to society.
They'll always be a problem to society. Better to address the grass roots of these problems (their upbringing and education) than the consequences (drugs).


By show of hands, who here in this thread is going to start using Heroin if it becomes legal? Anyone? Didn't think so. Just because something is legalized doesn't mean there's going to be a sudden surge and increase of drug use in question -- most people are sensible and reasonable and don't need to be told what to, and not to do. Where is personal responsibility? If people are too dumb, immature, and irrational to be told what personal recreation they can do why stop there? Why not tell them what they can watch, how they're allowed to spend their money, how they're allowed to spend their time, for christ's sake?
Absolutely spot on.

Macbrother
02-07-2012, 02:55 AM
I couldn't disagree more with your latter point. In the first place, is the "freedom" to abuse drugs really one worth protecting?
One should never have to justify a personal freedom. So long as it is not infringing upon the right of another it should be inherent. If you wish, you're free to attempt to justify why it should be removed.

In the second place, equating drug abuse to the possible but not definite effects of a violent movie on an individual is stretching the argument a bit too far. Heroin has detrimental effects on any individual who uses it; a violent movie, on the other hand, is unlikely to cause just any viewer to go out and commit violence. The inherent harm in the two activities is surely obvious.
The point is (obviously) not which does more harm. Even furthermore we are not strictly talking about heroin but recreational drugs in general. Why don't you compare it to the inherent harm in consuming THC once a week? The point is, even as the US national deficit is well over $1 trillion, and states are having to borrow money to pay for things like teachers and fire departments and law enforcement, we are spending over $50 billion a year and that's on law enforcement alone, not counting prison costs and upkeep. And what have we accomplished with such a policy? We've created a an underworld where gangs, thugs, and mafia thrive, and get rich off the sale drugs. Anyone who wants it can still get it whenever they want, either with money, or violence. It's counter-productive and quite frankly a waste of taxpayer money.
But of course, I'm only speaking from my own experience. I realise that Singapore's probably easier to regulate because we're such a small country and the US has its own hosts of problems. I just think there's something morally repugnant about the idea of legalising drugs in general, and I have experienced first-hand how tight controls can be beneficial to a society. I wouldn't want it any other way.
Listen, I'm not encouraging drug use and I don't use them myself except for alcohol -- I just don't want my government holding my hand, telling me what I can and can't do, and adding to the national and state debt in the process in futile, abortive, self-righteous attempts to stop it. I find that much more morally repugnant.

tripwires
02-07-2012, 03:21 AM
One should never have to justify a personal freedom. So long as it is not infringing upon the right of another it should be inherent. If you wish, you're free to attempt to justify why it should be removed.


I concede this point. I guess I don't have a problem with idiots abusing drugs and killing themselves in the process - no sympathy from me here.


The point is (obviously) not which does more harm. Even furthermore we are not strictly talking about heroin but recreational drugs in general. Why don't you compare it to the inherent harm in consuming THC once a week? The point is, even as the US national deficit is well over $1 trillion, and states are having to borrow money to pay for things like teachers and fire departments and law enforcement, we are spending over $50 billion a year and that's on law enforcement alone, not counting prison costs and upkeep. And what have we accomplished with such a policy? We've created a an underworld where gangs, thugs, and mafia thrive, and get rich off the sale drugs. Anyone who wants it can still get it whenever they want, either with money, or violence. It's counter-productive and quite frankly a waste of taxpayer money.


You mentioned heroin in your original post so I was running with that. Sorry what's THC? You were comparing stopping someone from taking heroin (again, using the example in your original post) to telling someone what movie to watch on a Saturday night and saying that the former would, via a slippery slope, lead to the latter. I was merely pointing out how the two situations are falsely analogous.


Listen, I'm not encouraging drug use and I don't use them myself except for alcohol -- I just don't want my government holding my hand, telling me what I can and can't do, and adding to the national and state debt in the process in futile, abortive, self-righteous attempts to stop it. I find that much more morally repugnant.

It sounds to me like your objection to making drugs illegal stems from the counter-productive effects it's had in the US with some liberal ideals thrown into the mix. All I'm saying is that criminalisation on ALL drugs has worked in other countries; and it's for this reason, and the fact that I am beyond thankful to live in a relatively safe society, that I have to put aside my liberal beliefs and defer to my authoritative government on this matter. Perhaps legalisation of some recreational drugs with strict regulation would work better in the US, but I definitely do not want to see it happening in my own country.

Lopez
02-07-2012, 08:30 AM
tripwires, I think the situation in Singapore is a bit artificial due to the harsh and, frankly, inhumane punishments. No one should be punished that severely on drug abuse. It's the same as having a capital punishment on obesity in order to solve the obesity epidemic...

If the legislation is changed to a more lenient one, some drugs will likely follow. However are you prepared to have such a legislation in order to keep the society drug-free? It's a harsh deal and, in my opinion, downright infringes human rights.

tripwires
02-07-2012, 09:08 AM
tripwires, I think the situation in Singapore is a bit artificial due to the harsh and, frankly, inhumane punishments. No one should be punished that severely on drug abuse. It's the same as having a capital punishment on obesity in order to solve the obesity epidemic...

If the legislation is changed to a more lenient one, some drugs will likely follow. However are you prepared to have such a legislation in order to keep the society drug-free? It's a harsh deal and, in my opinion, downright infringes human rights.

Actually, the punishment for consumption for first-time offenders is a maximum of 10 years' imprisonment and/or a fine of maximum $20,000. The mandatory death penalty is for trafficking certain types of drugs over a certain limit as stated in the Act and for "lesser" trafficking offences the punishment is jail and caning. I don't agree with these two punishments at all.

In my opinion, the human rights issue enters the picture insofar as we're talking about the punishments for trafficking: the mandatory death penalty is definitely incommensurate with the crime; further, the mandatory death penalty and arguably caning are cruel and unusual punishments. To this extent, I agree with you that our laws are unduly harsh.

That said, I don't believe that the death penalty has a general deterrent effect on any crime and while it may have a limited deterrent effect on drug trafficking in Singapore, I honestly do not believe that removing it as punishment for trafficking would lead to an increased inflow of drugs to Singapore. Same goes for caning. The infrastructure is already in place and it is relatively sound; the main problem with it is the inhumane punishments. One could argue that they are the reason Singapore is generally drugs-free but I definitely have my doubts on the actual deterrent effects of the death penalty.

Also, unlike the death penalty, the jail term for consumption is discretionary (unless the offender is a repeat offender). Sometimes the court sentences an accused drug abuser to reformative training instead of jail, depending on the circumstances. So yeah, we're not murdering drug addicts here, just the traffickers...

Hewitt =Legend
02-07-2012, 12:08 PM
I once sniffed an entire packet of permanent markers back in the 6th grade.

That was the stuff.

Ajde.

Macbrother
02-07-2012, 01:19 PM
I concede this point. I guess I don't have a problem with idiots abusing drugs and killing themselves in the process - no sympathy from me here.
There are a multitude of illegal drugs that can be used without being abused and without killing yourself. Even so there's a multitude of legal means destroy yourself like eating yourself to oblivion, you gonna have a crusade against cholesterol next? Furthermore I can have compassion for my fellow man without the government being my brother's keeper -- I know that's a radical idea.

Just out of curiosity what is the status of alcohol in Singapore? Something that is vastly more damaging and addicting to the human body than Marijuana.

You mentioned heroin in your original post so I was running with that. Sorry what's THC? You were comparing stopping someone from taking heroin (again, using the example in your original post) to telling someone what movie to watch on a Saturday night and saying that the former would, via a slippery slope, lead to the latter. I was merely pointing out how the two situations are falsely analogous.THC is the principle psychotropic agent in marijuana. As to your latter issue, the point is that when one freedom is removed it becomes that much easier to remove others via precedence -- that should be easy enough to understand. Once again, I wasn't comparing heroin, specifically to watching movies. Stop clinging to that red herring -- I'm talking about the ability to act as you wish provided you aren't infringing upon the rights of others. It could just as easily be a few friends getting together and smoking a joint to relax.

It sounds to me like your objection to making drugs illegal stems from the counter-productive effects it's had in the US with some liberal ideals thrown into the mix. All I'm saying is that criminalisation on ALL drugs has worked in other countries; and it's for this reason, and the fact that I am beyond thankful to live in a relatively safe society, that I have to put aside my liberal beliefs and defer to my authoritative government on this matter. Perhaps legalisation of some recreational drugs with strict regulation would work better in the US, but I definitely do not want to see it happening in my own country.
My objections should've been abundantly clear in the last few posts and they are multifold, there's no need to type them out again and no need for you to try and wrap them in a nice cute bubble. Obviously we have a fundamental philosophical difference on the boundary between freedom and security and that's fine, there's more than two right ways to live -- provided you (and your people) are happy with how you're living.

Just as an aside, don't you think your society is "relatively safe" for reasons beyond the scope of drug control? For reasons the vast majority of other people would probably not be ok with?

EddceLLent
02-07-2012, 08:23 PM
You can avoid all the lung cancer issues by taking THC in other ways. Like eating it in cookies/cakes .

I used to make brownies. They were so tasty and I had some of my best ever highs after eating them. I remember one time I ate some and was defrosting a freezer - it felt like I was on an expedition to the arctic :)

Damn, I miss drugs sometimes...

Stronga23
02-07-2012, 08:28 PM
Weed should be legalized. Luckily I live really close to Amsterdam :worship:. Love rolling blunts before Monfils or Tsonga matches :hearts:

fast_clay
02-07-2012, 11:19 PM
So we're smarter, better, and more capable of rational decision than the populace? You have a mighty high opinion of MTF posters, then. To your latter point -- it's a slippery slope, when you take away one freedom, it becomes much easier to take away others. What if someone goes out, watches a movie, then commits violence. Should the movie be banned? Should controls be put in about who goes sees what, when, where? It's been discussed before.

being forced to drink in one of three cages at Melbourne's 2009 Big Day Out because myself and my Australian creed could not be trusted to consume alcohol while watching Neil Young or The Prodigy up close was perhaps the day my heart broke the most... without a doubt... after 6 years of life abroad, what had my country become...?

it is a slippery slope...

this scenario of course brought about by the inability of a large scale event to secure public liability insurance... so, to secure the insurance certificate 'the drinking' was segregated... you could drink, but you needed to consume in a cage...

how does this sort of infringement of civil liberties come about...? a litigious society that has lost it's common sense...

the point is this: shit is gonna happen no matter how much you wanna protect against it... there is gonna be risk in anything, especially in some fun stuff... so why not re-employ a bit of common sense and give that responsibility back to the people... because protecting a population by building a cage for them to do harm to only themselves is by far a more saddening occurrence than missing half an event because of legendary levels of intoxication....

Henry Chinaski
02-07-2012, 11:59 PM
By show of hands, who here in this thread is going to start using Heroin if it becomes legal? Anyone? Didn't think so.

well, I wouldn't start injecting brown powder but if I could go into my local pharmacy and buy a quality high-grade opiate then fuck yeah, I'm giving that a try.

Johnny Groove
02-08-2012, 12:08 AM
well, I wouldn't start injecting brown powder but if I could go into my local pharmacy and buy a quality high-grade opiate then fuck yeah, I'm giving that a try.

Yeah, I feel this. At least once.

Similar to how I was when I did cocaine the first time. I did it, didn't enjoy it, and haven't touched it since. :shrug:

I think if more people are educated and actually experience it and realize what it is all about, people can make their decisions. Part of the problem of outlawing things is that it adds an element of "danger" to it, which makes people want to do it even more. If it is legal and out in the open, people may try it once, realize what's going on, and make their own informed decisions.

2003
02-08-2012, 12:08 AM
This thread isn't very sexy 2003...

It isnt always a sexy subject Leng..

Unlike the Haas backhand..or tripwires :devil:

tripwires
02-08-2012, 06:29 AM
Just as an aside, don't you think your society is "relatively safe" for reasons beyond the scope of drug control? For reasons the vast majority of other people would probably not be ok with?

Like what?

It isnt always a sexy subject Leng..

Unlike the Haas backhand..or tripwires :devil:

;)

TMJordan
02-08-2012, 06:49 AM
I laugh at governments making it illegal for a plant that grows freely on this planet. They simply have no right to do that.


Governments + Religion have made this world nothing short of a shithole.

bokehlicious
02-08-2012, 06:56 AM
I remember one time I ate some and was defrosting a freezer - it felt like I was on an expedition to the arctic :)


:D

AdeyC
02-08-2012, 03:19 PM
If someones addicted to a drug - it means that they have to resort to doing all kinds of stuff to get money to buy more - I don't see who gains by making criminals out of them.

In my area you can go out to clubs or bars in the evenings and if you want to get them there's usually someone around selling them anyway.

Jimnik
02-09-2012, 04:20 AM
I still remember the first time I got high. Couldn't stop laughing for about half an hour. Everything was funny.

After a shit day at work, it's so easy to get pissed off at your room-mates over the pettiest little things. A dirty kitchen, a trash-bag, a bad light bulb, a leaf on the floor - everything is annoying.

All it takes is a few deep puffs and none of that matters. Seriously, the world would be so much more peaceful if people smoked more weed.

2003
02-09-2012, 09:37 AM
I laugh at governments making it illegal for a plant that grows freely on this planet. They simply have no right to do that.


Governments + Religion have made this world nothing short of a shithole.

Agree with the first statement.

Dont know what religion and drugs really have in common though.

Johnny Groove
02-09-2012, 04:45 PM
I still remember the first time I got high. Couldn't stop laughing for about half an hour. Everything was funny.

After a shit day at work, it's so easy to get pissed off at your room-mates over the pettiest little things. A dirty kitchen, a trash-bag, a bad light bulb, a leaf on the floor - everything is annoying.

All it takes is a few deep puffs and none of that matters. Seriously, the world would be so much more peaceful if people smoked more weed.

Now this man is speaking my language.

Stronga23
02-09-2012, 05:46 PM
Now this man is speaking my language.

:hug::hug:

Gagsquet
02-09-2012, 05:49 PM
Wa5B22KAkEk

abraxas21
02-12-2012, 05:49 PM
The paper, published by Cato in April, found that in the five years after personal possession was decriminalized, illegal drug use among teens in Portugal declined and rates of new HIV infections caused by sharing of dirty needles dropped, while the number of people seeking treatment for drug addiction more than doubled.

"Judging by every metric, decriminalization in Portugal has been a resounding success," says Glenn Greenwald, an attorney, author and fluent Portuguese speaker, who conducted the research. "It has enabled the Portuguese government to manage and control the drug problem far better than virtually every other Western country does."



Read more: http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html#ixzz1mC9F1Pk9

...

Johnny Groove
02-12-2012, 06:02 PM
The Portugese know what they're doin'

Felipe Abe
02-12-2012, 06:46 PM
Wa5B22KAkEk

Nice music

2003
02-13-2012, 12:27 AM
The Portugese know what they're doin'

Yeah, come on Machado & Gil, come in here and tell us how it is about drugs

fast_clay
02-13-2012, 04:18 AM
grcqs9cDuN8

allpro
02-15-2012, 12:21 AM
HFANuSPo-CY

'lockdown records presents.....'

:superlol:

v-money
04-20-2012, 01:48 AM
Any MTF members celebrating 420? Is that just an American thing or is this a counterculture holiday all over the world?

Funny video of what the kids at University of Colorado at Boulder did in 2011 for 4/20. The college and the police will be shutting them down this year by spreading fish fertilizer all over the lawns...
Re7RdnzeX98

I personally will not be partaking in the informal holiday because I have quit smoking to pass drug test for employment :( Nevertheless, I'm sure most of my college housemates will be stoned out of their minds and probably most of the college students here.

So happy 420 to all of the MTF members that will celebrate it!

Topspindoctor
04-20-2012, 02:00 AM
I laugh at governments making it illegal for a plant that grows freely on this planet. They simply have no right to do that.
Governments + Religion have made this world nothing short of a shithole.

Agreed. They should legalize cocaine and opium since both are made from plants that grow on this planet. Also multiple hallucinogens which grow freely. :stupid:

Seriously, are you dumb? What difference does it make whether a drug is grown naturally on synthesized in a lab? The bunch of dumb sheep populating this planet need to be controlled more, not less, especially teenagers who think they know everything.

This has nothing to do with government and religion. The average person is simply too dumb to be allowed access to powerful drugs without outside control. The government MUST control these substances. Not because they are necessarily life threatening, but because an average person has an IQ of a cockroach.

v-money
04-20-2012, 02:09 AM
Agreed. They should legalize cocaine and opium since both are made from plants that grow on this planet. Also multiple hallucinogens which grow freely. :stupid:

Seriously, are you dumb? What difference does it make whether a drug is grown naturally on synthesized in a lab? The bunch of dumb sheep populating this planet need to be controlled more, not less, especially teenagers who think they know everything.

This has nothing to do with government and religion. The average person is simply too dumb to be allowed access to powerful drugs without outside control. The government MUST control these substances. Not because they are necessarily life threatening, but because an average person has an IQ of a cockroach.

I'm a bit surprised that you are making this argument considering that you label yourself as a proud alcohol drinker. Sure laws should be in place just like laws are in place with alcohol...you can't operate machinery, you can't get intoxicated in public, you have to be of a certain age. That's not the same as making something legal or illegal.

I enjoy getting drunk from time to time as well. In fact now that I don't smoke I do drink more often and I think it has much worse effects on me. I got hammered last light and woke up with scratches and bruises all over my body with a headache beyond belief. It's not only the day after, because at the time I was much more belligerent and distractive than I would ever be when on a drug like marijuana.

Can you imagine the scene in that video that I posted if the people were drunk instead of high. Total chaos.

Topspindoctor
04-20-2012, 02:48 AM
I'm a bit surprised that you are making this argument considering that you label yourself as a proud alcohol drinker. Sure laws should be in place just like laws are in place with alcohol...you can't operate machinery, you can't get intoxicated in public, you have to be of a certain age. That's not the same as making something legal or illegal.

I enjoy getting drunk from time to time as well. In fact now that I don't smoke I do drink more often and I think it has much worse effects on me. I got hammered last light and woke up with scratches and bruises all over my body with a headache beyond belief. It's not only the day after, because at the time I was much more belligerent and distractive than I would ever be when on a drug like marijuana.

Can you imagine the scene in that video that I posted if the people were drunk instead of high. Total chaos.

..And people like you make it into "sheep" category and are the reason that make it necessary for the government to control drugs. You have to get hammered into oblivion. Why? Imagine what would happen if you had easy access to powerful hallucinogens or psycho stimulants. People are dumb - they have no semblance of control. Thus drugs need to be controlled. Not because they will kill you, but because mindless abusers who can't control their intake will cause more harm than good.

I drink alcohol every day. I ignore multiple social stigmas (such as drinking before 12am or drinking alone etc). However, I am fully in control of my drinking. A glass of fine whiskey after work to relax and get a buzz is totally different to getting hammered like a teenager.

People often make a mistake that drugs are controlled because they are dangerous, while in reality, government is protecting them from their own stupidity.

tripwires
04-20-2012, 03:00 AM
Oh my god, T-Doc is actually making sense. :speakles:

v-money
04-20-2012, 03:21 AM
..And people like you make it into "sheep" category and are the reason that make it necessary for the government to control drugs. You have to get hammered into oblivion. Why? Imagine what would happen if you had easy access to powerful hallucinogens or psycho stimulants. People are dumb - they have no semblance of control. Thus drugs need to be controlled. Not because they will kill you, but because mindless abusers who can't control their intake will cause more harm than good.

I drink alcohol every day. I ignore multiple social stigmas (such as drinking before 12am or drinking alone etc). However, I am fully in control of my drinking. A glass of fine whiskey after work to relax and get a buzz is totally different to getting hammered like a teenager.

People often make a mistake that drugs are controlled because they are dangerous, while in reality, government is protecting them from their own stupidity.

Fair enough, but here you talk about how you use a drug responsibly but how would you feel if the government said you couldn't because of people like me?

My point is that there is almost no conceivable way in which I can use marijuana in a irresponsible and dangerous way.

BroTree123
04-20-2012, 03:29 AM
I agree. Drugs are actually beneficial to an extent, however only dangerous when overdosed, and people border beyond stupidity to even try that. Hell, overdosing on anything, be it food, exercise, sleep, playing games, etc... is bad for you. Humans lack a fundamental trait. And that is discipline. We are garbage at it.

Topspindoctor
04-20-2012, 03:30 AM
I agree. Drugs are actually beneficial to an extent, however only dangerous when overdosed, and people border beyond stupidity to even try that. Hell, overdosing on anything, be it food, exercise, sleep, playing games, etc... is bad for you. Humans lack a fundamental trait. And that is discipline.

Blasphemy.

BroTree123
04-20-2012, 03:39 AM
Lies :o. Don't deny it Doc :devil:.

Anyways, people argue that "what makes drugs dangerous is that they're addictive, and that's what makes it lethal". So what? Anything that makes us feel good is addictive. For instance; you wonder why there are fat people (no offence), and there are quite a few bunch of losers who spend their entire lives playing games and getting computer rage every 2 seconds. Addiction is a different ball game altogether. Let me repeat it again, Anything that makes us feel good is addictive. It's too bad that most drugs are lethal when too much of them are taken. Don't blame the drug, blame your addiction for things that "make you feel good".

tripwires
04-20-2012, 04:00 AM
But there are certain substances in drugs and tobacco that induce addiction. It's a bit different from some random loser who has no life and is addicted to an online forum or whatever; the online forum doesn't per se invite you to become addicted. I get your point but I think addictive substances are slightly different than computer games/sex/MTF/etc.

v-money
04-20-2012, 04:08 AM
Lies :o. Don't deny it Doc :devil:.

Anyways, people argue that "what makes drugs dangerous is that they're addictive, and that's what makes it lethal". So what? Anything that makes us feel good is addictive. For instance; you wonder why there are fat people (no offence), and there are quite a few bunch of losers who spend their entire lives playing games and getting computer rage every 2 seconds. Addiction is a different ball game altogether. Let me repeat it again, Anything that makes us feel good is addictive. It's too bad that most drugs are lethal when too much of them are taken. Don't blame the drug, blame your addiction for things that "make you feel good".

Agreed. If you have a vice it will be somehow addicting to you. I think I was addicted to marijuana because I used it almost every day, but luckily this was only a mental addiction. Anything can be mentally addicting. I had a job interview last week and was told to expect a job offer soon, which made me both excited and nervous, but it was obvious what I had to do...quit and let time take its toll. I just stopped using it and it was that simple...no withdrawal symptoms, nothing. One just need the right mindset to stop something that is mentally addicting.

Three of my friends just smoked in celebration of 420 and I sat with them on the porch while they were passing the bong around. Yes, some drugs can actually be addicting and people should avoid the situation. You won't see recovering heroin addicts sit around with their friends while they shoot-up. In fact my neighbors are recovering alcoholics and I think they feel very uncomfortable in the presence of alcohol. My parents invited them over a few times and they seemed offended when my parents asked them if they wanted to drink. I think this was a strange concept for my Ukrainian parents to understand as alcohol use is so common in our country and alcoholism to them seems like a lack of self-control.

BroTree123
04-20-2012, 04:18 AM
But there are certain substances in drugs and tobacco that induce addiction. It's a bit different from some random loser who has no life and is addicted to an online forum or whatever; the online forum doesn't per se invite you to become addicted. I get your point but I think addictive substances are slightly different than computer games/sex/MTF/etc.

What I'm seeing with this argument is that there are various stimuli that evokes different level of fun/pleasure/happiness (whatever you want to call it). I believe that, the more "fun" a stimuli is, the more addictive it is. Just so happens that drugs are generally "more pleasurable" than say food perhaps. I believe it's the substance or chemicals (better word to use) in drugs provide that incredible kick of pleasure (not necessarily the addiction). Different levels of addiction is dependent across how "fun" or "pleasurable" something is. The relationship is proportional.

v-money
04-20-2012, 04:28 AM
Well some drugs are actually addictive. I personally would not legalize something like a heroin or cocaine, but my problem is that the "war on drugs" in the US is really a war on weed, something that is more harmless and less addictive than alcohol. So much money is being spent on people who are indeed just addicted to fun and the experience of THC, not the actual chemical.

Drug tests are a perfect example of how the US is targeting marijuana users. A dangerous drug like heroin or cocaine will remain in your system for 1-4 days, but THC is one of the few drugs that is fat soluble and can stay in your system for a long time (the other fat soluble drug I know of is PCP which is very dangerous but use is rare). This policy is not protecting the people from anything. It's good that it is becoming decriminalized which keeps innocent people out of jail, but legalization is the only way the government would finally be able to regulate the drug and keep it out of the hands of children. I heard about of group of students who bought 4 ounces of marijuana today, let me tell you, this would not be possible if the government could regulate sales. It's honestly easier to get marijuana than for an underaged person to get alcohol.

fast_clay
04-20-2012, 08:26 AM
It's a bit different from some random loser who has no life and is addicted to an online forum or whatever

Why are you attacking Clay Death in this way...? :confused:

tripwires
04-20-2012, 08:48 AM
Why are you attacking Clay Death in this way...? :confused:

I was actually talking about myself. :awww:

Topspindoctor
04-20-2012, 09:28 AM
But there are certain substances in drugs and tobacco that induce addiction. It's a bit different from some random loser who has no life and is addicted to an online forum or whatever; the online forum doesn't per se invite you to become addicted. I get your point but I think addictive substances are slightly different than computer games/sex/MTF/etc.

Psychological addiction is much worse than physical addiction. Your organism stops craving nicotine a few days after you quit and yet many smokers start smoking weeks/months after quitting. They don't *need* nicotine, but they crave for ciggies anyway.

Like Brotree already explained, one does not specifically need a drug to be considered an addict . There were cases where people killed each other in real life over virtual MMO items in games. Any addiction is harmful, even if you happened to be addicted to drinking 20 litres of water a day, eventually your kidneys would give out.

I am actually one of those people who would favor to legalize ALL drugs, but sadly fools need to be protected from themselves, so they need to remain illegal just because of that. Few bad apples ruin it for the rest of us, unfortunately. Be it a teen getting hammered and committing crimes or someone just chilling smoking weed all day, living off wellfare etc.

There are talks of controlling sugar in Australia just like cigs/alcohol. Why? Because people can't control themselves.

BroTree123
04-20-2012, 10:41 AM
Exactly. "Addiction" is psychological.

If it wasn't psychological, then you wouldn't have people quitting drugs or cigarettes, or even fat people losing weight and becoming fit. It takes time, but if you can keep psyching yourself out of it, addiction can be rid of before it becomes fatal.

Again, discipline is what we lack.

Going back to topic; whether or not we legalize drugs, I could hardly give a shit.

emotion
04-22-2012, 03:27 AM
I did nothing on 420. I feel like a traitor to a cause, I had a damn match, and got to lose dubs from MP up with no psychological aid

Chris Kuerten
04-23-2012, 08:37 AM
If everyone knew how it feels to be on MDMA this would be an amazing world.

Basically the only drug I would recommend to other people.

Johnny Groove
04-23-2012, 01:57 PM
I did nothing on 420. I feel like a traitor to a cause, I had a damn match, and got to lose dubs from MP up with no psychological aid

I blazed all day, but I haven't since. 3 days now sober, haven't done that since.....:scratch:

If everyone knew how it feels to be on MDMA this would be an amazing world.

Basically the only drug I would recommend to other people.

I did X a few times in late high school, early college, it is indeed fucking amazing, some of the best times of my life. But the come down is a bitch, depression can set in, it ain't easy.

I personally think that all drugs should be legal. The most surefire way of getting people to do something is to tell them they can't do it. Look at Portugal. They legalized everything, and the usage remained basically the same, but the amount of people seeking help for drug addiction increasing substantially.

The people? Let them eat cake, let them smoke, pop, and snort what they want. I don't believe in government telling people they can and cannot do things in the privacy of their own home, so long of course they are not harming others. Besides, the government has no problem selling cancer sticks (cigarettes) and alcohol and are in bed with the tobacco and alcohol companies, getting a cut on every 6 pack and carton. How many people do you hear dying from lung or liver cancer every year? How many people do you hear dying from accidents due to drunk driving? A shitload! Now tell me how many people have died from smoking too much weed? NONE!

Jimnik
04-23-2012, 02:42 PM
Drugs are always the answer.

Filo V.
04-25-2012, 01:55 PM
If I were president, I would decriminalize and legalize marijuana.

Yes, that's sort of random, and sort of cliche since so many people say it, but it needed to be said by me.

Filo V.
04-25-2012, 01:55 PM
With that being said, I will never ever do drugs.

emotion
04-26-2012, 05:26 PM
I blazed all day, but I haven't since. 3 days now sober, haven't done that since.....:scratch:



I did X a few times in late high school, early college, it is indeed fucking amazing, some of the best times of my life. But the come down is a bitch, depression can set in, it ain't easy.

Really? I've only done once (2 pills), but actually felt pretty good next day. Then again, I'm immune to hangovers from almost anything :D

Johnny Groove
04-26-2012, 05:30 PM
Really? I've only done once (2 pills), but actually felt pretty good next day. Then again, I'm immune to hangovers from almost anything :D

Well if you only do once, it shouldn't be too bad.

It's when you start rolling every other weekend, or 3 times in 9 days, 2-3 pills per, (my peak, Spring 2008), shit can go down. Done it twice since, don't plan anymore.

emotion
04-27-2012, 01:48 AM
Ah, well I lost my source so that probably won't happen (plus inability to afford), though I have a friend who used to do that

Where I live, and at my age, the easiest things to get are the most dangerous- Percoset etc.- while stuff like that takes weeks