Organisers to encourage more Djokovic-Nadal finals [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Organisers to encourage more Djokovic-Nadal finals

ballbasher101
01-30-2012, 04:50 PM
We have known for a while now that organisers have actively encouraged Fedal finals. After the epic OZ and US open finals I suspect the event organisers especially at the majors are going to create conditions that favour a Nada-Djokovic final. We might be seeing the end of Fedal finals, that would be fantastic.

ballbasher101
01-30-2012, 05:11 PM
We've already seen the end of Fedal finals. Djokodal isn't better though. Even more one-sided than Fedal.


At least we won't have to watch Federer shank backhands on every single point. Nadal is a much better fighter that Federer. I suspect Nadal will lose most of his matches against Djokovic but Djokovic will be made to work for sure. Their matches are more fun.

ballbasher101
01-30-2012, 05:16 PM
You sond like a Nadaltard to me.


:superlol:. that is the funniest thing anyone has said to me in a long time. Me a Nadal fan? :haha:. I am a proud disliker of Nadal since 2004 :devil:.

sexybeast
01-30-2012, 05:18 PM
At least we won't have to watch Federer shank backhands on every single point. Nadal is a much better fighter that Federer. I suspect Nadal will lose most of his matches against Djokovic but Djokovic will be made to work for sure. Their matches are more fun.

Nadal is a better fighter but Federer tries more new things against Nadal every time they play, more fun to watch Federer rush to the net, hit impossible halfvolleys, dropshots, different slices and angles with his backhand than Nadal moonballing to Djokovic's backhand even if those backhand shanks are quite ugly.

Hope we get to see Fed-Djokovic finals, those are the best.

Nathaliia
01-30-2012, 05:20 PM
they need to fix their draw fixing habit straight

ballbasher101
01-30-2012, 05:26 PM
Former Fedtard turned Djokotard?


Always a Fed and Murray fan. Neutral towards the Djoker in the past, sometimes liked him and sometimes disliked him. If he continues his demolition jobs of Nadal he will have my loyalty and support.

ballbasher101
01-30-2012, 05:32 PM
Nadal is a better fighter but Federer tries more new things against Nadal every time they play, more fun to watch Federer rush to the net, hit impossible halfvolleys, dropshots, different slices and angles with his backhand than Nadal moonballing to Djokovic's backhand even if those backhand shanks are quite ugly.

Hope we get to see Fed-Djokovic finals, those are the best.


Agree with you on the Feder-Djokovic finals. There will never happen though. If Federer is in Nadal's half we all know what will happen there. The best we can get are Federer-Djokivic Semis. We have had many of them over the years. 2 of the 3 last year were classic. The OZ open semi was ok but the French and US opens were sheer class.

MIMIC
01-30-2012, 05:33 PM
I actually agree. Fedal used to be the must-see match but Djokovic's current domination of Nadal has suddenly risen to the top as tennis' most interesting plot line . I expect to see more Fedal semis....that way organizers get to kill THREE birds with one stone: they get the "classic" Fedal match, Djokovic for all intents and purposes gets to waltz into the final, and we get another chapter of the "Can Rafa solve the Djoker riddle?"

Looner
01-30-2012, 05:34 PM
Next on the ATP tour: the introduction of the dirt Masters in Barcelona.

MuzzahLovah
01-30-2012, 08:01 PM
Jesus, even if I wasn't a fan of Murray, he has to step up. Him or someone else(why is there no one else?!). Of Fed, Nadal, and Nole, only the Nole-Fed matches are remotely interesting or exciting to watch.

chammer44
01-30-2012, 09:01 PM
FEd Djoko matches are best in my opinion.

Fedfanforever
01-30-2012, 09:06 PM
Oh god...how slow are they gonna make the courts? :eek::eek::eek:

Friday16
01-30-2012, 09:13 PM
Djokovic beats Nadal on all surfaces, at least Federer can beat Nadal on fast courts.

Djokovic-Nadal finals became to be boring, Fedal is also boring. We need more Federer-Djokovic finals.

Yolita
01-31-2012, 02:51 AM
I actually agree. Fedal used to be the must-see match but Djokovic's current domination of Nadal has suddenly risen to the top as tennis' most interesting plot line . I expect to see more Fedal semis....that way organizers get to kill THREE birds with one stone: they get the "classic" Fedal match, Djokovic for all intents and purposes gets to waltz into the final, and we get another chapter of the "Can Rafa solve the Djoker riddle?"

I disagree with this. I think that of the Top 4, Murray is the player who troubles Novak most. If he gets Murray in his half, Novak won't be "waltzing" into any final.

Roadmap
01-31-2012, 03:04 AM
Corporate elements and not genuine love seem to rule the day. Their time will come.

MIMIC
01-31-2012, 03:05 AM
I disagree with this. I think that of the Top 4, Murray is the player who troubles Novak most. If he gets Murray in his half, Novak won't be "waltzing" into any final.

I agree but I don't have much faith in Murray always getting to the semis :) Maybe he's maturing and will become more consistent in the future. Nonetheless, I don't think Murray can trouble Novak to the point of actually BEATING him. Novak had his wake-up call this year and has filed Murray under "legitimate threat" and will handle him accordingly in the future. :cool:

I mean, of course I can't say that Murray won't EVER beat Novak in a slam but I'm just not convinced that Novak would allow it to happen; we've seen him step it up when necessary.

On another note, I do remember saying that I truly believed that Murray would push Novak and potentially Fed in a slam semi rather than a final because of there being less at stake (something that allows many to further question his mental toughness)

Roadmap
01-31-2012, 03:10 AM
I agree but I don't have much faith in Murray always getting to the semis :) Maybe he's maturing and will become more consistent in the future. Nonetheless, I don't think Murray can trouble Novak to the point of actually BEATING him. Novak had his wake-up call this year and has filed Murray under "legitimate threat" and will handle him accordingly in the future. :cool:

I mean, of course I can't say that Murray won't EVER beat Novak in a slam but I'm just not convinced that Novak would allow it to happen; we've seen him step it up when necessary.

On another note, I do remember saying that I truly believed that Murray would push Novak and potentially Fed in a slam semi rather than a final because of there being less at stake.

A lighter ball introduced at Wimbledon would do me fine. The poor natural timing of Djokomug would shine through and provide for a great laugh.

SetSampras
01-31-2012, 03:17 AM
Organizing more beat downs? No thanks. It's clear Nadal can't beat this guy. Despite even having a 4-2 edge in the 5th. No belief. I just assume watch two lower ranked guys where you have no clue who is going to win.. Besides seeing another Fedal final or Djoker-Nadal final where the winner is already etched in stone

navy75
01-31-2012, 04:09 AM
How can the organizers "fix" something that already is??? MTF never ceases to outdo itself. Djoker and Nadal are already 1/2, and have already met in the last three GS finals as is. Either one of them is a tremendous favorite over anyone else, so what else needs to be done to further the fix? Maybe someone can explain how this thread has two pages already, as I simply don't get it...

ballbasher101
01-31-2012, 04:26 AM
How can the organizers "fix" something that already is??? MTF never ceases to outdo itself. Djoker and Nadal are already 1/2, and have already met in the last three GS finals as is. Either one of them is a tremendous favorite over anyone else, so what else needs to be done to further the fix? Maybe someone can explain how this thread has two pages already, as I simply don't get it...


The Djoker struggles with Federer. If they put Federer on Djokovic's side then Djokovic will not be a guarantee to reach the final. Nadal on the other hand has no such problems.

bokehlicious
01-31-2012, 07:47 AM
Del Potro will spoil your party here guys...

tripwires
01-31-2012, 08:53 AM
I agree completely with those who favour Federer/Djokovic over Fedal and Nadal/Djokovic. Fedal sucks for obvious reasons - horrible match up and watching Fed shank backhands is fun for no one. Nadal/Djokovic is probably even worse because of the horrible uni-dimensional tennis that these two produce.

Federer/Djokovic matches on average produce better quality tennis. They are pretty evenly matched and neither is a pusher. FO SF was a great match and, objectively speaking, so was USO SF.

If we're headed for more Nadal/Djokovic finals then I'm afraid tennis is gonna suck really, really bad.

MariaV
01-31-2012, 09:59 AM
Del Potro will spoil your party here guys...

Why are you such a Delpotard all of a sudden? The USO final 2009 still hurts or hopping badwagons? Jumping Nole and Delpo bandwagons may hurt your butt too. :awww:

Sophocles
01-31-2012, 10:52 AM
It's weird how everybody now prefers Djokerer matches. They're absolutely right to do so, of course, but it wasn't so long ago these were thought to produce the *worst* tennis in any big-4 match-up, presumably because neither could fully impose his game on the other & they both forced each other into lots of errors.

It's different now. Of match-ups between the top 4, Fed-Djoke is good, Djoke-Muzz is good, hell Fed-Muzz is good. Of course these match-ups have something in common.

nadalwon2012
01-31-2012, 11:04 AM
We've already seen the end of Fedal finals. Djokodal isn't better though. Even more one-sided than Fedal.

LOL....the last time Federer took Nadal to a 5th set was Wimbledon 2007. While Nadal too Djok to a 5th set and was up a break! No contest. Nadjok is the most competitive rivalry. Imagine what people would say if Nadal kept that break in the 5th set....

Tennis-Life
01-31-2012, 11:21 AM
LOL....the last time Federer took Nadal to a 5th set was Wimbledon 2007. While Nadal too Djok to a 5th set and was up a break! No contest. Nadjok is the most competitive rivalry. Imagine what people would say if Nadal kept that break in the 5th set....



Djokovic played 5 hours match with Murray, otherwise it could be straight sets in final :wavey:

atennisfan
01-31-2012, 12:39 PM
It's different now. Of match-ups between the top 4, Fed-Djoke is good, Djoke-Muzz is good, hell Fed-Muzz is good. Of course these match-ups have something in common.


hmm.... no nadal?

rickcastle
01-31-2012, 12:50 PM
LOL....the last time Federer took Nadal to a 5th set was Wimbledon 2007. While Nadal too Djok to a 5th set and was up a break! No contest. Nadjok is the most competitive rivalry. Imagine what people would say if Nadal kept that break in the 5th set....

The last time Federer beat Nadal was just December last year. When was the last time Nadal beat Djokovic anywhere? :lol:

Sophocles
01-31-2012, 02:33 PM
hmm.... no nadal?

;)

swebright
01-31-2012, 03:05 PM
It made news in not only newspapers , slo in gossip sites! One very important message is tennis players got recognition for their athelicism and endurance (marathon, WWE, gymnastics and chess combined). It definitely raise tennis into another level.

One articles said would you rather watch Nole-Rafa final or Usein Bolt 100m run !!

Also some grumblings about eternally long matches and some wants serve and volley back !

Quadruple Tree
01-31-2012, 03:15 PM
What do you mean they are going to? They already have. Tournament organizers outside of Cincy and the US Open have decided to make the surfaces medium/slow or slow so that attacking players have to hit 2 or 3 fantastic shots simply to win points against players like Djokovic, Nadal, and Murray. It's an impossible level of play to consistently maintain over an entire match. Maybe once in awhile a player will have a great day and knock one of them off, but that will be rare.

piksi
01-31-2012, 04:07 PM
Djokovic beats Nadal on all surfaces, at least Federer can beat Nadal on fast courts.

Djokovic-Nadal finals became to be boring, Fedal is also boring. We need more Federer-Djokovic finals.


I am not sure that Federer can beat Rafa in a meaningful match anywhere anymore. By meaningful I mean GS as well as masters series tournaments that happen before the end of US open where the season finishes for Nadal and Djokovic as well.

rickcastle
01-31-2012, 04:09 PM
I am not sure that Federer can beat Rafa in a meaningful match anywhere anymore. By meaningful I mean GS as well as masters series tournaments that happen before the end of US open where the season finishes for Nadal and Djokovic as well.

WTF match is meaningful. Just because season "finishes" for Djokovic and Nadal doesn't mean it's actually finished. I'm sure Nadal would love to get a WTF title too as he still doesn't have one. Do you think Nadal and Djokovic just happily decided that the season is over for them after the US Open? Their bodies just can't keep up and that's a minus on Federer how?

Mystique
01-31-2012, 04:32 PM
LOL....the last time Federer took Nadal to a 5th set was Wimbledon 2007. While Nadal too Djok to a 5th set and was up a break! No contest. Nadjok is the most competitive rivalry. Imagine what people would say if Nadal kept that break in the 5th set....

:confused:Remind me of the Wimbledon 2008 and AO 2009 finals again?

Fedal is a lame rivalry now, Nadal-djokovic seems headed that way.

I say more of Djokovic-Murray, Djokovic-Federer please.

Certinfy
01-31-2012, 04:38 PM
Yeah. Not like I mind it though, Djokovic vs Nadal matches are a million times better than the shit that is Federer vs Nadal.

Stronga23
01-31-2012, 04:39 PM
Monfils-Djokovic RG Final. Book it.

Shirogane
01-31-2012, 04:50 PM
I'd like that.

Yeah. Not like I mind it though, Djokovic vs Nadal matches are a million times better than the shit that is Federer vs Nadal.I'm sure Djoko won't mind either; not sure about Nadal though.

Certinfy
01-31-2012, 04:51 PM
Monfils-Djokovic RG Final. Book it.
Would be amazing. :worship:

nadalwon2012
01-31-2012, 05:07 PM
The last time Federer beat Nadal was just December last year. When was the last time Nadal beat Djokovic anywhere? :lol:

I was talking about slams. Does anyone really care what happens outside of slams? We've seen how important Federer's 24 match winning streak was....

And I saw Nishikori bagel Djok last year :lol:

piksi
01-31-2012, 05:47 PM
WTF match is meaningful. Just because season "finishes" for Djokovic and Nadal doesn't mean it's actually finished. I'm sure Nadal would love to get a WTF title too as he still doesn't have one. Do you think Nadal and Djokovic just happily decided that the season is over for them after the US Open? Their bodies just can't keep up and that's a minus on Federer how?

I watched WTF too and other that Federer it didn't seem to matter to other guys or at least that is how they played. It didn't have to do as much with bodies as it had with mental. Nadal and Djokovic had plenty of rest between USO and WTF but they didn't care which is obvious because only 6 weeks later they came back with other attitude and produced such crazy AO. They played each other 6 times in finals, they won everything that mattered in tennis other than Cincinnati. After such a season, could you imagine playing some tournaments in Asia or indoor in Europe while you really have nothing to play for. Rankings were set, it isn't as much about money to them, they got enough titles. Why bother?
It was time when Murray and Federer tried to save a miserable season and they apparently fooled some people and "experts" who were then picking them for AO etc... At the end of AO the same 2 giants were standing which was a shocker only for people who overslept 2011. Not much will change in 2012 until the end of USO and then we start again with the same crap. In order for Andy and Roger to win a GS, they have to beat Novak and Rafa in 3 days in best of 5. Beating one of them is not easy at all. Beating both of them - forget about it.

jamesuk
01-31-2012, 06:29 PM
One of the wierdest comments from Mats Wilander during the final was that the crowd lacked enthusiasm for the first few sets becuase of the fact that NAdal and Novak had played 6 times last year....
He said they play each other too much and it is hurting the game, and that they should not be playing in so many tournaments together.

Simon Reed gave no response, he MUST have thought Mats was talking utter crap? One can debate about the style of tennis these two produce, but just for the story and the sense of the guard changing...surely it is better headlines that Novak reaches and stays at the top by dominating the next best player?? Does it not give all of their matches an added edge?
A year ago I would not have cared about a match between these two, now I look forward to them, if only just to see the human/historic side of things.

Isnt the main problem of the WTA that there are no decent rivalries? No Hingis v Williams sisters, No Serena v Capriati, no Henin v Williams... just a load of choking.

Should rivalries at the top of the game be celebrated? Yes Rafa has lost the last 7, but that makes every following match even more intriguing.

I really was dumbfounded when Mats was saying this. Did anyone else notice that and if so did you agree??

barbadosan
01-31-2012, 06:32 PM
I watched WTF too and other that Federer it didn't seem to matter to other guys or at least that is how they played. It didn't have to do as much with bodies as it had with mental. Nadal and Djokovic had plenty of rest between USO and WTF but they didn't care which is obvious because only 6 weeks later they came back with other attitude and produced such crazy AO. They played each other 6 times in finals, they won everything that mattered in tennis other than Cincinnati. After such a season, could you imagine playing some tournaments in Asia or indoor in Europe while you really have nothing to play for. Rankings were set, it isn't as much about money to them, they got enough titles. Why bother?
It was time when Murray and Federer tried to save a miserable season and they apparently fooled some people and "experts" who were then picking them for AO etc... At the end of AO the same 2 giants were standing which was a shocker only for people who overslept 2011. Not much will change in 2012 until the end of USO and then we start again with the same crap. In order for Andy and Roger to win a GS, they have to beat Novak and Rafa in 3 days in best of 5. Beating one of them is not easy at all. Beating both of them - forget about it.

Funny how other players have also won everything there is to win, and still competed (and had the ability and enrgy to) in the WTF. Now suddenly the last year or 2, players no longer have the stamina to compete throughout an entire season? strange

piksi
01-31-2012, 06:43 PM
Which other players won anything in 2011 ?

It has nothing to do with stamina.

barbadosan
01-31-2012, 06:54 PM
Which other players won anything in 2011 ?

It has nothing to do with stamina.

I'm saying that in other years, we had players winning everything, who still went on to play well in WTF. In fact, one player in recent memory won everything for three years and still showed up for the WTF. In fact, that players played even more matches than the winning player did last year. So why should 2011 be different

piksi
01-31-2012, 07:04 PM
Because the level of competition is crazy high and level of physicality is way beyond reasonable. The player that you are referring to never had to go trough SF and F which are played today. Never would have won a FO if it wasn't for Soderling etc... These guys are different. They play until end of USO one way and then until AO another way. Right or wrong is another thing. All the "winter titles and streaks" were tested at the AO and tests failed.

shiaben
01-31-2012, 07:07 PM
As long as Andy Murray doesn't play a final, I don't mind either these two or one involving them and Federer. At least you know you're guaranteed to have some kind of fight.

GOAT = Fed
01-31-2012, 07:09 PM
Because the level of competition is crazy high and level of physicality is way beyond reasonable. The player that you are referring to never had to go trough SF and F which are played today. Never would have won a FO if it wasn't for Soderling etc... These guys are different. They play until end of USO one way and then until AO another way. Right or wrong is another thing. All the "winter titles and streaks" were tested at the AO and tests failed.

Well, using your logic, Nadal would never have won US Open if it wasn't for a muggy draw. Djokovic would never have won US open if Roger Federer had served an ace. Let's please stop playing the game ''ifs''. Roger won the FO fair and square. Not his fault that Rafa couldn't make the final, just like how it wasn't Rafa's fault that he had an easy draw or how it wasn't Djokovic's fault that he couldn't serve an ace.

And sorry, but if players are just going to give up 4/5 of the waythrough the season, that is simply not acceptable. I'm pretty sure Djokovic and Nadal would snap at a chance to win the WTF. WTF is more prestigious than the masters so I don't get your argument.

barbadosan
01-31-2012, 07:11 PM
Because the level of competition is crazy high and level of physicality is way beyond reasonable. The player that you are referring to never had to go trough SF and F which are played today. Never would have won a FO if it wasn't for Soderling etc... These guys are different. They play until end of USO one way and then until AO another way. Right or wrong is another thing. All the "winter titles and streaks" were tested at the AO and tests failed.

You really need to go back and watch some matches, wheel and come again. The winter streak may have died, but not before the 23 SF Grand Slam streak was established, not before the 8 finals in a row won, and the 10 finals in a row won streaks were accomplished; not before the 90-5 season record was established etc. etc... but I forget, tennis for the likes of you began 2 years ago... lol

PS: I wish you joy watching your wars of attrition

Sauletekis
01-31-2012, 07:20 PM
I guess lots of people here prefere to see Karlovic - Isner finals...

masterclass
01-31-2012, 07:26 PM
One of the wierdest comments from Mats Wilander during the final was that the crowd lacked enthusiasm for the first few sets becuase of the fact that NAdal and Novak had played 6 times last year....
He said they play each other too much and it is hurting the game, and that they should not be playing in so many tournaments together.

Simon Reed gave no response, he MUST have thought Mats was talking utter crap? One can debate about the style of tennis these two produce, but just for the story and the sense of the guard changing...surely it is better headlines that Novak reaches and stays at the top by dominating the next best player?? Does it not give all of their matches an added edge?
A year ago I would not have cared about a match between these two, now I look forward to them, if only just to see the human/historic side of things.

Isnt the main problem of the WTA that there are no decent rivalries? No Hingis v Williams sisters, No Serena v Capriati, no Henin v Williams... just a load of choking.

Should rivalries at the top of the game be celebrated? Yes Rafa has lost the last 7, but that makes every following match even more intriguing.

I really was dumbfounded when Mats was saying this. Did anyone else notice that and if so did you agree??

This is one of the times where Mr. Wilander made perfect sense, even though he didn't give all his reasons.
So of course I agree, and I think I can reason why:

1. I believe one of his points is that rivalries are fine if not overdone. If players play too frequently against each other, normally the one that is winning more often will eventually gain a psychological advantage, and the matches will be even more lopsided and predictable. How interesting a rivalry would that be? How does 7 wins in a row make it more intriguing unless you are a masochist or sadist?

2. Prior to the Masters series started in the 1990's, top players did not meet frequently, but they usually met at the biggest events, majors, and year end championships. Many times they played the lesser tournaments on different continents. These infrequent meetings at top events were enough to keep rivalries alive, relatively fresh and a bit more unpredictable. There was enough of a gap in time where one could not be sure whose form relative to the other player was better coming into the tournament. Now it's all too predictable, except for the gap between the end of the season and the Australian Open.

3. Playing conditions have become so homogenized (toward slow high bouncing courts), that it has become easier to predict winners, especially between players that favor slower surfaces against players that favor faster. Mr. Nadal will always be favored over Mr. Federer on a slower and/or high bouncing court like Roland Garros, or Rod Laver Arena, especially during cooler slower playing conditions at night, whereas Mr. Federer would always be favored on faster lower bouncing surfaces, indoors, even more so, like at the Year End championships. When players are like in styles, then usually the pecking order sorts itself out, and we know who is the King of a certain surface, like Mr. Nadal has been King of the Roland Garros red clay. One would have to say that Mr. Djokovic is becoming King of the slower hard courts like Rod Laver Arena, even though Mr. Nadal obviously remains quite competitive. But the pecking order seems to have been established, with Mr. Djokovic beating Mr. Nadal in their last 4 appearances on slower hard courts (and YES, the US Open of 2011 played much slower than normal mostly due to the heavy rains.)

4. Watching top players such as Mr. Nadal and Mr. Djokovic playing against each other on slower courts is like watching a marathon every step of the way. Can you imagine playing that way more than 4 or 5 times a year? It was 6 last year, and would have been more but they were too exhausted or injured to play well in the indoor season. Soon they will not be able to go much past Roland Garros before incurring some injury that lays them up for a couple of months or more. The ATP did reduce the length of the masters matches from best of 5 to best of 3 in 2007 because of health concerns, but that hasn't been enough. If these players are going to survive the gladiatorial styles that are being encouraged by the ATP and tournament officials via their slow playing homogenization strategy, they are going to have to stop playing against each other so often, and the only way to do that is either reduce the mandatory requirements to play in 8 of 9 masters 1000 events, or increase the number of masters events so that they can avoid each other.

What may be exciting to the average fan, might not be healthy for their long term careers. Many of these types of players have already been asking for the calendar to be shortened, but that is really a short term patch. They need to address the cause of this problem, and that is the purposeful homogenization of court play to be slower so that they can lengthen all matches (early round matches too), and produce more advertising revenue. There needs to be more variety, or they will surely kill tennis and/or severely injure the players in the name of money, sad to say.

There may be more reasons, but this post is already long enough per usual for my analyses :):shrug:

Respectfully,
masterclass

rocketassist
01-31-2012, 07:28 PM
I guess lots of people here prefere to see Karlovic - Isner finals...

What a rubbish post.

Certinfy
01-31-2012, 07:40 PM
I guess lots of people here prefere to see Karlovic - Isner finals...
Personally, I would. At least then matches will actually be of a decent pace.

Sauletekis
01-31-2012, 07:45 PM
Personally, I would. At least then matches will actually be of a decent pace.

Tennis would lost more than an half of his fans (including me) and eventually it would die as a big sport.

rickcastle
02-01-2012, 05:21 AM
I was talking about slams. Does anyone really care what happens outside of slams? We've seen how important Federer's 24 match winning streak was....

And I saw Nishikori bagel Djok last year :lol:

Your post was erroneous in all sorts of way either because Federer was able to take Nadal to 5 sets in Wimbledon 2008 and Australian Open 2009 too. In fact, Federer was able to take Nadal to 5 sets in more occasions than Nadal has been able to take Djokovic so far. And Nadal's supposed to be this mighty spartan warrior. Federer can still be relied on to beat Nadal on his favored surface (indoors) but Nadal has been beaten thoroughly by Djokovic on all surfaces, even on his mighty clay. Being they're in the same age, I'd say Djokodal rivalry is more lopsided. Fedal rivalry when Federer was at his peak at least wasn't this lopsided, he never lost 7 finals in a row to Nadal.

I watched WTF too and other that Federer it didn't seem to matter to other guys or at least that is how they played. It didn't have to do as much with bodies as it had with mental. Nadal and Djokovic had plenty of rest between USO and WTF but they didn't care which is obvious because only 6 weeks later they came back with other attitude and produced such crazy AO. They played each other 6 times in finals, they won everything that mattered in tennis other than Cincinnati. After such a season, could you imagine playing some tournaments in Asia or indoor in Europe while you really have nothing to play for. Rankings were set, it isn't as much about money to them, they got enough titles. Why bother?
It was time when Murray and Federer tried to save a miserable season and they apparently fooled some people and "experts" who were then picking them for AO etc... At the end of AO the same 2 giants were standing which was a shocker only for people who overslept 2011. Not much will change in 2012 until the end of USO and then we start again with the same crap. In order for Andy and Roger to win a GS, they have to beat Novak and Rafa in 3 days in best of 5. Beating one of them is not easy at all. Beating both of them - forget about it.

If it truly didn't matter, why did they even bother to show up? Grow up. It matters. Federer was winning everything left and right in 2004 and 2006 but still managed to get the WTF :shrug: I'm sure Nadal wants to get a piece of silverware that is still glaringly missing from his collection thus far. He is one of the all time greats who has never won the WTF.

Sophocles
02-01-2012, 03:31 PM
3. Playing conditions have become so homogenized (toward slow high bouncing courts), that it has become easier to predict winners, especially between players that favor slower surfaces against players that favor faster.

This is the essential point. In previous rivalries - Mac against Borg or Lendl, Sampras against Agassi, even Fed against Nadal before the mental scarring got too deep - the result depended a lot on the surface, which prevented the rivalries from becoming predictable & one-sided. With today's homogenized surfaces, once a player has your number on one surface, he's probably got it on every surface, & this is precisely what we're seeing in the current Djoker-Nadal "rivalry". There is some residual interest because people find it hard to imagine Nadal losing an R.G. final, but once Djoker has routined him there, this rivalry will be officially over.

jamesuk
02-01-2012, 05:12 PM
Masterclass, regarding the outcome becoming more and more obvious etc, is it still not better to have the top player having to beat the next best player to prove he is the better player, rather than be number one through a series of unrelated losses of the rest of the top four?
Also, 7 in a row is nothing, in the mid eighties Evert lost 14 in a row I think to Navratilova, all finals. But she turned it around slightly, winning 7 of the next 14.
Thats WTA though...

I see your points about surfaces etc and agree with them, but Im still glad the top spots are decided by matches played between those same guys at the top.

piksi
02-01-2012, 05:49 PM
Your post was erroneous in all sorts of way either because Federer was able to take Nadal to 5 sets in Wimbledon 2008 and Australian Open 2009 too. In fact, Federer was able to take Nadal to 5 sets in more occasions than Nadal has been able to take Djokovic so far. And Nadal's supposed to be this mighty spartan warrior. Federer can still be relied on to beat Nadal on his favored surface (indoors) but Nadal has been beaten thoroughly by Djokovic on all surfaces, even on his mighty clay. Being they're in the same age, I'd say Djokodal rivalry is more lopsided. Fedal rivalry when Federer was at his peak at least wasn't this lopsided, he never lost 7 finals in a row to Nadal.



If it truly didn't matter, why did they even bother to show up? Grow up. It matters. Federer was winning everything left and right in 2004 and 2006 but still managed to get the WTF :shrug: I'm sure Nadal wants to get a piece of silverware that is still glaringly missing from his collection thus far. He is one of the all time greats who has never won the WTF.


In a word - money. Novak came to masters in Paris only to pick up the nice check. I am sure that they have other obligations as well being the top players in the world. If Rafa had won the USO and they were fighting for the #1, things would have been different. You can believe whatever you want but AO results show again the the results after USO were consequence of best two players not really being interested in playing seriously. Some people took them seriously and thought that Federer can actually win AO because he beat Rafa easily at WTF. I found it hilarious then and pathetic now. Novak and Rafa are the two best players in the world and have been since 01.01 2011 (even before but whatever). For the rest to win a GS, they have to go trough both of them which isn;t happening so whether the organizers want more Rafole finals or not - they will get them.

rickcastle
02-01-2012, 06:04 PM
In a word - money. Novak came to masters in Paris only to pick up the nice check. I am sure that they have other obligations as well being the top players in the world. If Rafa had won the USO and they were fighting for the #1, things would have been different. You can believe whatever you want but AO results show again the the results after USO were consequence of best two players not really being interested in playing seriously. Some people took them seriously and thought that Federer can actually win AO because he beat Rafa easily at WTF. I found it hilarious then and pathetic now. Novak and Rafa are the two best players in the world and have been since 01.01 2011 (even before but whatever). For the rest to win a GS, they have to go trough both of them which isn;t happening so whether the organizers want more Rafole finals or not - they will get them.

LOL. They didn't need to show up to WTF for the money. Especially not Nadal as he has no bonus. And Djokovic's bonus was for Paris anyway, if I'm not mistaken. The prize money from these tournaments is just chump change for what these guys earn outside of professional tennis. Especially for Nadal. I don't believe that Nadal would actually risk being humiliated with a bagel just for some hundred thousand dollars. At this point in their careers, they're not playing for cash, they're playing for glory. You can believe whatever you want but the ability to stay fit through to the end of the season is something worthy of praise and not ridicule and if Djokovic and Nadal are not able to keep fit even after USO, then that's on them. WTF is important whether you like it or not.