Nadal's new racquet weight the reason for matching Djok on Djok's favorite surface? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Nadal's new racquet weight the reason for matching Djok on Djok's favorite surface?

nadalwon2012
01-30-2012, 09:33 AM
Djok changed his racquet a couple of years ago, but he seemed to play below his best for a year and then became a hardcore force after that year of adapting and reached the 2010 Wimbledon semis and 2010 US Open final.

Nadal whereas has seemingly adjusted within just one month, and presumably will get even better as he now has all of February to train with it. But was this racquet weight change the true difference for Nadal reaching Djok 2.0's level?

If it was the racquet, then that has big implications for Nadal's year, as Nadal continues to adjust.

Sri
01-30-2012, 09:37 AM
If he keeps moon balling and pushing defensively, the heavier racket won't make a difference. Rafa should go for winners, even if it means more UEs.

nadalwon2012
01-30-2012, 09:42 AM
If he keeps moon balling and pushing defensively, the heavier racket won't make a difference. Rafa should go for winners, even if it means more UEs.

That's exactly what he just did in this AO final - 71 unforced errors! 44 winners. If he didn't go for winners when he was down 0-40 in the 4th set, we wouldn't have had a 5th set. I think Djokovic falling to the canvas twice in the 5th set may have made Nadal believe in playing a bit more defensively to extend the rallies. Still, hard to argue with the results, Nadal was up a break in the 5th, and that would usually be good enough for a win.

Time Violation
01-30-2012, 09:54 AM
Nadal was lucky that Nole started very slow to lose the 1st set, and generally failed to convert loads of break points, 7/20 was the total score, he won't be so lucky every time. Nonetheless, Novak still had more winners and less UEs.

nadalwon2012
01-30-2012, 09:57 AM
Djok was lucky Nadal stopped attacking in the 2nd and 3rd sets. Nadal in the 1st set was a lot more positive, and he only regained that positive approach late in the 4th set. Then mid-way through the 5th set Nadal reverted back to defensive play to extend the points to make Djok suffer. I think Djok once again sucked his opponent in to an extent, with the falling on the floor after points.

Mystique
01-30-2012, 10:04 AM
no. Djokovic was stiff as a plank in the first set, choked massively in the fourth set. Nadal returned the favour in the fifth.

But when Nole was playing well, got the adrenaline and juices flowing, he outplayed Nadal. People are saying AO is Nole's best surface. True. But its a great surface for Nadal too. The results dont show it, but the slow as ass surface suits Nadal PERFECTLY. Even more than USO surface.

Time Violation
01-30-2012, 10:13 AM
I think Djok once again sucked his opponent in to an extent, with the falling on the floor after points.

Lol, that would mean Nadal is dumb as a brick. I'm far from being Nadal fan, but I find that very hard to believe.

rickcastle
01-30-2012, 10:42 AM
Nadal came close in this match because of Djokovic's inability to clip it out at some points. Djokovic's BP conversion was on 35%. Had he managed to convert one of his BP's at 0-40, the match would've been over at the 4th. I think it had more to do with Djokovic's slightly decreased level at parts of the match than whatever it was that Nadal did.

stewietennis
01-30-2012, 10:42 AM
If Nadal didn't start every return of serve 12ft behind the baseline he would have been dictating the points rather than always playing catch up.

Halba
01-30-2012, 10:45 AM
not much to separate these two war horses. unimaginable defense, mixed in with counter attacking offense. no one defends better in history of the sport than these two. even federer at his peak couldn't defend that well when pressured on the backhand, but he didnt need to do much defending,

Halba
01-30-2012, 10:46 AM
If Nadal didn't start every return of serve 12ft behind the baseline he would have been dictating the points rather than always playing catch up.

nadal's ROS doesn't have an offensive element. he never developed it. he doesnt have the short back swings that djokovic and murray have.

his defensive ROS, combined with weak 2nd serve, make him just a tad less than djokovic at this stage. fitness wise, he looks the goods, and i favour rafa in the longer rally

stewietennis
01-30-2012, 10:48 AM
nadal's ROS doesn't have an offensive element. he never developed it. he doesnt have the short back swings that djokovic and murray have.

his defensive ROS, combined with weak 2nd serve, make him just a tad less than djokovic at this stage.

I believe it was in his match against Federer, Toni signaled (there was a close up on him) for Nadal to move into the baseline and Nadal seemed to have some success against the Federer serve. So I'm not sure why he retreated halfway to the back wall everytime.

Sophocles
01-30-2012, 10:51 AM
No, the reason Nadal got close was that Djoker played like absolute shit.

bokehlicious
01-30-2012, 10:55 AM
This was blue clay, surely not djok's best surface :rolleyes:

Hewitt =Legend
01-30-2012, 11:03 AM
We need more Djokovic/Nadal threads in GM.

MaxPower
01-30-2012, 11:15 AM
Funny how Nadal switched to a heavier racket for "more power" then averaged his FS around 180kmh and the 2nd serve at a weak 130kmh (big reason Djokovic could break him many times)

It's not going to be that easy. He's still afraid of double faults, unforced errors and such things to ever really go for it. He doesn't want to give away anything but to play with power and true aggression and gain points from free he must also be prepared to give up points for free. He needs a new mindset rather than a new racket.

nadalwon2012
01-30-2012, 11:55 AM
no. Djokovic was stiff as a plank in the first set, choked massively in the fourth set. Nadal returned the favour in the fifth.


And Nadal served a double fault to give Djok the 2nd set 6-4. Not saying Djok wouldn't have broken him anyway, but it did end with a double-fault.

nadalwon2012
01-30-2012, 11:58 AM
Nadal came close in this match because of Djokovic's inability to clip it out at some points. Djokovic's BP conversion was on 35%. Had he managed to convert one of his BP's at 0-40, the match would've been over at the 4th. I think it had more to do with Djokovic's slightly decreased level at parts of the match than whatever it was that Nadal did.

But Nadal hit clean winners when he was down 0-40. Nadal simply outplayed Djok. Nadal won the 4th set with all-out attack. Djok is lucky Nadal reverted to defense in the 5th set.

nadalwon2012
01-30-2012, 11:59 AM
No, the reason Nadal got close was that Djoker played like absolute shit.

LOL, Nadal had 71 unforced errors. He usually only has 15-30.

nadalwon2012
01-30-2012, 12:02 PM
Funny how Nadal switched to a heavier racket for "more power" then averaged his FS around 180kmh and the 2nd serve at a weak 130kmh (big reason Djokovic could break him many times)

It's not going to be that easy. He's still afraid of double faults, unforced errors and such things to ever really go for it. He doesn't want to give away anything but to play with power and true aggression and gain points from free he must also be prepared to give up points for free. He needs a new mindset rather than a new racket.

I agree.

He only seemed to go ultra-aggressive when the match was slipping away in the 4th set. In that game he was down 0-40, that is the most attacking tennis I've ever seen from Nadal in his entire career. He also attacked in the tie-breaker. He started the 5th set reasonably aggressive, but then when Djok starting falling down I think Nadal reverted to extending the rallies. Bad idea. That's kind of what happened in last year's US Open. Nadal aggressively won the 3rd set, and then played too short/defensive in the 4th set perhaps because he thought Djok was in a bad way physically. Then Djok slams winners with ease.

Nole Rules
01-30-2012, 12:17 PM
No, the reason Nadal got close was that Djoker played like absolute shit.

This. :lol: @ the ppl who thought that Nole was playing at his best in the final.

rickcastle
01-30-2012, 12:23 PM
This. :lol: @ the ppl who thought that Nole was playing at his best in the final.

Nadal fans keep making fun of Federer fans for still hoping Federer can beat Nadal in a slam but they can't face the truth about Djokovic's pure ownage. Let them hope against hope. If the 7 straight winning streak (with Nadal getting much more rest from a less physically grueling match, no less) didn't snap them out of their delirium then I don't know what will. Friendly advice from a Federer fan: Just expect that Nadal is going to lose every time he faces Djokovic, that way, if he actually wins, it will be much sweeter. And if he loses, you've emotionally prepared for it.

Garson007
01-30-2012, 01:33 PM
This was blue clay, surely not djok's best surface :rolleyes:
Yeah, I don't get it. Djokovic actually has more success at the USO, just he had to face Federer there every time.

sexybeast
01-30-2012, 01:40 PM
Djokovic has beaten Nadal now twice in a row coming from an exhausting 5 set match in the semifinal, both times he was collapsing in the final set....

Oh and 2010 Usopen final Djokovic also had just played a 5 set match against Federer prior to the final, back then sadly he just didnt have the mental and physical endurance he got today.

Also in the Rome final he had played an almost 4 hour match against Murray the day before, Djokovic has shown himself to be twice the spartan Nadal has ever been.

MariaV
01-30-2012, 01:43 PM
Nadal fans keep making fun of Federer fans for still hoping Federer can beat Nadal in a slam but they can't face the truth about Djokovic's pure ownage. Let them hope against hope. If the 7 straight winning streak (with Nadal getting much more rest from a less physically grueling match, no less) didn't snap them out of their delirium then I don't know what will. Friendly advice from a Federer fan: Just expect that Nadal is going to lose every time he faces Djokovic, that way, if he actually wins, it will be much sweeter. And if he loses, you've emotionally prepared for it.

WHAT?!?!? Wasn't everyone and their grandmother saying before the final that Rafa is the favourite this time? :confused: :scratch:
I don't think many Nadaltards considered him a favourite. :shrug: I know I expected him to lose.

OK OK I admit I have no clue about the Topspindoctor and like... but they spew :bs: all the time. :o

nadalwon2012
01-30-2012, 01:52 PM
Nadal fans keep making fun of Federer fans for still hoping Federer can beat Nadal in a slam but they can't face the truth about Djokovic's pure ownage. Let them hope against hope. If the 7 straight winning streak (with Nadal getting much more rest from a less physically grueling match, no less) didn't snap them out of their delirium then I don't know what will. Friendly advice from a Federer fan: Just expect that Nadal is going to lose every time he faces Djokovic, that way, if he actually wins, it will be much sweeter. And if he loses, you've emotionally prepared for it.

Fedal vs Rafjok isn't a good comparison, considering Nadal leads Djok 16-14 and 5-3 at the slams. You probably only claim ownage because you know it won't be long until Nadal increases his h2h lead. If you were really confident you'd be prepared to wait until Djok actually has a h2h lead....

Time Violation
01-30-2012, 01:57 PM
Fedal vs Rafjok isn't a good comparison, considering Nadal leads Djok 16-14 and 5-3 at the slams. You probably only claim ownage because you know it won't be long until Nadal increases his h2h lead. If you were really confident you'd be prepared to wait until Djok actually has a h2h lead....

Actually it's even worse; Rafa didn't start piling up his H2H against Fed, until Fed started to decline, while Nole started owning Nadal at Nadal's peak, only few months after Nadal's best ever year. And Fed at least kept winning indoors, while Rafa lost on every surface possible :lol:

nadalwon2012
01-30-2012, 02:11 PM
Actually it's even worse; Rafa didn't start piling up his H2H against Fed, until Fed started to decline, while Nole started owning Nadal at Nadal's peak, only few months after Nadal's best ever year. And Fed at least kept winning indoors, while Rafa lost on every surface possible :lol:

Federer just claimed he's playing tennis BETTER THAN EVER. He pointed to his recent 24 match winning streak which Nadal broke. I'm seeing a trend of tennis media now coming to the realization that Federer hasn't declined as much as Nadal/Djok have taken the game to a new level. Over the last year, Federer is dominating at slams until he runs into Nadal/Djok, except for the Tsonga Wimbledon match. Federer is dropping less sets at slams than he did in his prime.

Sophocles
01-30-2012, 02:21 PM
Actually it's even worse; Rafa didn't start piling up his H2H against Fed, until Fed started to decline, while Nole started owning Nadal at Nadal's peak, only few months after Nadal's best ever year. And Fed at least kept winning indoors, while Rafa lost on every surface possible :lol:

Exactly, & also, even on clay & even when old, Fed has always been able to outplay Nadal for the best part of a set. Nadal can't outplay the Djoker at all. He is impotent against him, with his only weapons - the dtl & io forehand - far too inconsistent even when he gets a chance to use them.

ballbasher101
01-30-2012, 03:49 PM
Funny how Nadal switched to a heavier racket for "more power" then averaged his FS around 180kmh and the 2nd serve at a weak 130kmh (big reason Djokovic could break him many times)

It's not going to be that easy. He's still afraid of double faults, unforced errors and such things to ever really go for it. He doesn't want to give away anything but to play with power and true aggression and gain points from free he must also be prepared to give up points for free. He needs a new mindset rather than a new racket.


This. A bad workman blames his tools. Nadal will always be defensive minded and that is his undoing against Djokovic. Even if Nadal attacked he is not guaranteed to win the match because Djokovic defends as well as Nadal does. It is truly a terrible matchup for Nadal.

MIMIC
01-30-2012, 04:17 PM
No.

arm
01-30-2012, 04:43 PM
No, the reason Nadal got close was that Djoker played like absolute shit.

This is true.

We need more Djokovic/Nadal threads in GM.

Yes, please. Someone needs to open one about their hug after the match. We need to analyse that. Was it for the cameras? Was it a sincere one? :scratch:

Sunset of Age
01-30-2012, 04:50 PM
No. The only reason why this match was (or rather, looked) close was 1) Djoko being virtually absent in the 1st set, and 2) Djoko failing to serve it out in the 4rth - on two occasions, no less.

Bullsh*tZilla :wavey:

Logical
01-30-2012, 04:54 PM
No. The only reason why this match was (or rather, looked) close was 1) Djoko being virtually absent in the 1st set, and 2) Djoko failing to serve it out in the 4rth - on two occasions, no less.

Bullsh*tZilla :wavey::spit:The match played for six hours.:lol:

Logical
01-30-2012, 05:00 PM
That's exactly what he just did in this AO final - 71 unforced errors! 44 winners. If he didn't go for winners when he was down 0-40 in the 4th set, we wouldn't have had a 5th set. I think Djokovic falling to the canvas twice in the 5th set may have made Nadal believe in playing a bit more defensively to extend the rallies. Still, hard to argue with the results, Nadal was up a break in the 5th, and that would usually be good enough for a win.He played slow in sets 2 and 3.Fakovic falling to canvas and cheating is NID.In anxiety moment of final set opposite player can believe Novak is really tired even if he know before better that he maybe cheating.It put pressure on Murray in Semifinal also.

SheepleBuster
01-30-2012, 05:04 PM
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ... just wake me up when Nadal is retired. Has he announced it yet cause he should

abraxas21
01-30-2012, 05:13 PM
a new racquet wont make him any less of a mug

LawrenceOfTennis
01-30-2012, 07:08 PM
Djok changed his racquet a couple of years ago, but he seemed to play below his best for a year and then became a hardcore force after that year of adapting and reached the 2010 Wimbledon semis and 2010 US Open final.

Nadal whereas has seemingly adjusted within just one month, and presumably will get even better as he now has all of February to train with it. But was this racquet weight change the true difference for Nadal reaching Djok 2.0's level?

If it was the racquet, then that has big implications for Nadal's year, as Nadal continues to adjust.

Who is Djok?

Hypnotize
01-30-2012, 07:24 PM
Djok changed his racquet a couple of years ago, but he seemed to play below his best for a year and then became a hardcore force after that year of adapting and reached the 2010 Wimbledon semis and 2010 US Open final.

Nadal whereas has seemingly adjusted within just one month, and presumably will get even better as he now has all of February to train with it. But was this racquet weight change the true difference for Nadal reaching Djok 2.0's level?

If it was the racquet, then that has big implications for Nadal's year, as Nadal continues to adjust.
there's two massive flaws in your arguement:

1. Nadal didn't match Djokovic, he lost and the only reason he came close was due to Novak's fatigue from the Murray semi-final.

2. Adding a bit of lead tape is a world away from switching to a different racket.

I would have been happy enough with Novak's victory but watching Nadull tards still squirming over it 24 hours later just adds to the pleasure. It really is the gift that keeps on giving.:haha:

zcess81
01-30-2012, 07:27 PM
Djok changed his racquet a couple of years ago, but he seemed to play below his best for a year and then became a hardcore force after that year of adapting and reached the 2010 Wimbledon semis and 2010 US Open final.

Nadal whereas has seemingly adjusted within just one month, and presumably will get even better as he now has all of February to train with it. But was this racquet weight change the true difference for Nadal reaching Djok 2.0's level?

If it was the racquet, then that has big implications for Nadal's year, as Nadal continues to adjust.

Rackets, tension etc are never the real reason. He can experiment with his rackets/tension till he's blue in the face and the outcome will still be the same. It's all in the mind. Who can stay calm under pressure and execute...when the facing brake/set/match points: who is willing to go for his shots and be aggressive. Nadal was never the most talented player but he always used to win the battle of the minds. That's why he has 10 grand slams and technically more talented players like Nalbandian have ZERO. After all, 2 years ago Nole had 1 slam and was struggling to win tournaments, and was regularly losing to Rafa/Roger. Technically he's not that different, more or less the same player...the difference is in his mind. Something clicked and he believes, deep inside, that he is a grand slam champion, world number 1...and he is.

Kiedis
01-30-2012, 07:42 PM
Rafa is adjusting his game to win Nole, as Nole adjusted previously to win Rafa. It wasn't enough in AO2012, but next time who knows. I think if Rafa defeats Nole once then it will be much easier for him.

Hypnotize
01-30-2012, 08:03 PM
Rafa is adjusting his game to win Nole, as Nole adjusted previously to win Rafa. It wasn't enough in AO2012, but next time who knows. I think Rafa defeats Nole once then it will be much easier for him.
Maybe but we've seen Fed beat Nadal on the odd occasion but it hasn't made much difference in the long run.

Kiedis
01-30-2012, 08:11 PM
Maybe but we've seen Fed beat Nadal on the odd occasion but it hasn't made much difference in the long run.

Federer is too stubborn and he has a too high opinion about his own skills. That prevented him from adjusting and evolve his game. He is too old to change, pherhaps.

Sophocles
01-30-2012, 08:54 PM
Nadulltards citing the 3g difference in racquet weight. NID. This is the kind of adjustment most players are making all the time - the only difference is they don't get their phoney uncle to hold a fucking press conference about it because they're not big-headed & self-obsessed enough to imagine anybody else gives a fuck.