Djokovic is doing what safin/nalbandian should have [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Djokovic is doing what safin/nalbandian should have

tests
01-30-2012, 12:20 AM
I have always been a fan of great tennis talents.... and safin/nalbandian certainly were great talents. Many believe that these two should have won numerous slams (safin obviously won 2) because they were one of the most talented, but were missing that special something between the ears and dedication (nalby's fitness etc).

I believe djokovic epitomes this. It was always evident that djokovic had the talent to win numerous slams. Once he put it together mentally (and physically), he is now starting to rake in slams.

I felt the same should have happened with safin/nalby (more so safin because of his athletic build and athleticism in general).

Novak will end up most likely with 8-10 slams. He will do what safin/nalby were not able to (Even though they had that potential).

Note: I AM NOT saying that safin/nalby are > djokovic. After all, djokovic has won more slams than these two and has dominated on an historic level. But talent wise... they certainly are comprable.

what do you guys think?

Nixer
01-30-2012, 12:25 AM
So I didn't understand, what are you implying they should have done?

tests
01-30-2012, 12:27 AM
So I didn't understand, what are you implying they should have done?


What i am saying is that safin/nalby had the talent/potential to stop the duopoly of nadal/federer... and even more so, win numerous slams (somewhere like 7-9 slams)

NadalPhan
01-30-2012, 12:31 AM
But talent wise... they certainly are comprable.


Djokovic is nowhere near as talented as those 2 guys were. If they put more effort into tennis, they would be sharing a lot more slams with Federer now.

Nixer
01-30-2012, 12:32 AM
Hard to say that about Safin - his peak was way before Nadal rose on the scene, and by that time he was plagued by injuries. Nalby is too much inconsistent to be a constant threat, and has always been so.

leng jai
01-30-2012, 12:33 AM
I fail to see the point of this thread at all.

ballbasher101
01-30-2012, 12:34 AM
So I didn't understand, what are you implying they should have done?


They should have grown some balls, worked hard and actually used their talent. Lets be honest here Nalbandian aka burger king himself and Safin were never really that bothered with tennis. For all their talent they did not give a toss. Federer wanted success more and he changed before it was too late. Safin and Nalbandian did not change and they perished, Nalbandian more so.

NadalPhan
01-30-2012, 12:39 AM
The should have grown some balls, worked hard and actually used their talent.

Exactly. There's no excuses why guys like Davydenko and Nalbandian (people with twice the talent Rafa has)do not have at least 1 slam between them.

Nixer
01-30-2012, 12:41 AM
They should have grown some balls, worked hard and actually used their talent. Lets be honest here Nalbandian aka burger king himself and Safin were never really that bothered with tennis. For all their talent they did not give a toss. Federer wanted success more and he changed before it was too late. Safin and Nalbandian did not change and they perished, Nalbandian more so.

To be fair, Fed was the only one who continued to change/improve his game over time from that generation (Hewitt/Roddick/Safin/Nalbandian). That's IMO what makes him so great, and not many can do that - recently, only Nadal and Djokovic has shown the same qualities - and the result is obvious.

ballbasher101
01-30-2012, 12:49 AM
To be fair, Fed was the only one who continued to change/improve his game over time from that generation (Hewitt/Roddick/Safin/Nalbandian). That's IMO what makes him so great, and not many can do that - recently, only Nadal and Djokovic has shown the same qualities - and the result is obvious.


The new balls please generation is no more. Only Federer is still truly standing, the rest have fallen by the wayside.

MaxPower
01-30-2012, 01:16 AM
hmm. If I could improve anything with Safin and Nalbandian it would probably be their movement/agility/endurance and ability to keep the errors down.

This "new" Djokovic is all about movement, defense and keeping the errors down. He even hit less UEs than Nadal

So saying that Safin and Nalbandian should have done like Djokovic? I feel like Davydenko should serve like Federer. He might have a slam too. Why can't Soderling defend like Nadal? He'd have multiple slams. Why aren't they doing it...oh wait

SetSampras
01-30-2012, 01:29 AM
Both were more talented then Nole IMO (Especially Safin) Unfortunately, neither had crap for drive when it came to the hunger, desire, and wanting to be the best. They didn't have the court movement and return game of Nole, but of course they didn't have to. They were much deadlier attackers and aggressive players.

They didn't have the endurance and fitness, but hell what you have access to today I have no doubt they could have gotten it. I wish Safin could have dominated to this extent. He was 10 times more fun to watch at his peak then generic baseline Serb boy is

r3d_d3v1l_
01-30-2012, 01:32 AM
Safin was injury prone so he was dead from the start. Nalbandian just lacks the physical frame to dominate on a consistent basis.

azinna
01-30-2012, 01:54 AM
Don't think Safin was injury-prone till around 2005, which (unfortunately) is when he started to dedicate himself to the sport. Before then, there were about a handful of years (2000-04) where he actively resisted doing the required work. He was a great source of choice quotes on refusing to be a Sampras and wanting "a life" instead.

And yes: if only Marat and David had dedicated themselves when their bodies could withstand it.
....

tests
01-30-2012, 02:38 AM
hmm. If I could improve anything with Safin and Nalbandian it would probably be their movement/agility/endurance and ability to keep the errors down.

This "new" Djokovic is all about movement, defense and keeping the errors down. He even hit less UEs than Nadal

So saying that Safin and Nalbandian should have done like Djokovic? I feel like Davydenko should serve like Federer. He might have a slam too. Why can't Soderling defend like Nadal? He'd have multiple slams. Why aren't they doing it...oh wait

you missed the point of the thread.

leng jai
01-30-2012, 02:44 AM
Yes the point of your thread is Nole got the most out of his talent and is doing what every other underperforming professional that played tennis should have done but didn't.

Amazing thread.

tests
01-30-2012, 02:45 AM
Both were more talented then Nole IMO (Especially Safin) Unfortunately, neither had crap for drive when it came to the hunger, desire, and wanting to be the best. They didn't have the court movement and return game of Nole, but of course they didn't have to. They were much deadlier attackers and aggressive players.

They didn't have the endurance and fitness, but hell what you have access to today I have no doubt they could have gotten it. I wish Safin could have dominated to this extent. He was 10 times more fun to watch at his peak then generic baseline Serb boy is

agreed. But i must ask, how would safin/nalbandian (safin particularly) perform in today's era where all the courts are immensly slowed down and homogenized? After all, attackesr//aggresive players aren't particularly flourishing right now (but then again, none of them have the talent of a safin or nalbandian). Obviously this hypothetical is useless unless a safin/nalby got their shit together mentally and physically (in nalbys case)

tests
01-30-2012, 02:46 AM
Yes the point of your thread is Nole got the most out of his talent and is doing what every other underperforming professional that played tennis should have done but didn't.

Amazing thread.

You are acting like nole has limited talent though. The point of my thread is that safin/nalby SHOULD have done what nole is currently doing to the top players. They had the talent to take away slams from prime federer and nadal.

ballbasher101
01-30-2012, 03:15 AM
Some people implying that the Djoker might lack talent :facepalm:. Yes the guy should lean how to freaking volley but the guy has got immense talent. He is up there with the likes of Agassi when it comes to returning. He is deadly on both wings just like Agassi. He moves as well as Nadal one of the greatest road runners tennis has ever seen. Mentally he has gone from pea sized balls to gigantic balls of steel. He is out Nadalling Nadal himself. Safin and Burgerbandian are better in certain areas but overall the Djoker has more talent than those 2.

leng jai
01-30-2012, 03:16 AM
I never said Nole has limited talent, I said he made the most of it. Just because you make the most of your talent doesn't automatically mean its limited.

ballbasher101
01-30-2012, 03:19 AM
I never said Nole has limited talent, I said he made the most of it. Just because you make the most of your talent doesn't automatically mean its limited.


Ok my apologies :o. I'm ashamed.

NadalPhan
01-30-2012, 03:45 AM
overall the Djoker has more talent than those 2.

That's just not true. He's a better mover than they are, doesn't mean he actually has more talent than they do.

MaxPower
01-30-2012, 04:02 AM
You are acting like nole has limited talent though. The point of my thread is that safin/nalby SHOULD have done what nole is currently doing to the top players. They had the talent to take away slams from prime federer and nadal.

You totally missed my point. That road isn't open. Djokovic isn't winning only due to amazing talent or mental strength. He's winning because of endurance, agility and being rock solid with his baseline shots (which means low UE count)

Safin and Nalbandian never had that option. They aren't similar players at all to this Djokovic.

Even an injury-free Safin with super mental strength in todays game wouldn't be top3. He would likely hover around spot4-8 somewhere. He'd be a similar challenger as Soderling and Berdych. A big tall, heavier guy that can win against everyone on a good day (including Federer/Nadal/Djokovic) but would have trouble with consistency because of playing a risky style of tennis. He'd make a slam final or two, maybe a slam but he wouldn't be top3 no matter what unless he somehow could reinvent himself entirely.

Nalbandian? He's remembered from his prime as a super-talented player but let's face the facts. This era has gotten incredibly physical and David is only 5'11. If his competition was players like Agassi then sure he'd be #1 material and slam winning but vs the likes of Federer/Nadal/Djokovic and the big hitters of the modern game he's at a disadvantage.

So MY POINT is that you can't say that "oh look they had equal talent = they should dismantle top players just like Djokovic" when both their playing styles and their physical attributes are very different from Djokovic. Hey why even pick Djokovic?

tests
01-30-2012, 04:42 AM
You totally missed my point. That road isn't open. Djokovic isn't winning only due to amazing talent or mental strength. He's winning because of endurance, agility and being rock solid with his baseline shots (which means low UE count)

Safin and Nalbandian never had that option. They aren't similar players at all to this Djokovic.

Even an injury-free Safin with super mental strength in todays game wouldn't be top3. He would likely hover around spot4-8 somewhere. He'd be a similar challenger as Soderling and Berdych. A big tall, heavier guy that can win against everyone on a good day (including Federer/Nadal/Djokovic) but would have trouble with consistency because of playing a risky style of tennis. He'd make a slam final or two, maybe a slam but he wouldn't be top3 no matter what unless he somehow could reinvent himself entirely.

Nalbandian? He's remembered from his prime as a super-talented player but let's face the facts. This era has gotten incredibly physical and David is only 5'11. If his competition was players like Agassi then sure he'd be #1 material and slam winning but vs the likes of Federer/Nadal/Djokovic and the big hitters of the modern game he's at a disadvantage.

So MY POINT is that you can't say that "oh look they had equal talent = they should dismantle top players just like Djokovic" when both their playing styles and their physical attributes are very different from Djokovic. Hey why even pick Djokovic?

You make some decent points... except that safin is no way in hell the ball basher that soderling is. They are completely different players

MaxPower
01-30-2012, 05:45 AM
You make some decent points... except that safin is no way in hell the ball basher that soderling is. They are completely different players

Yes but they are both aggressive players 6'4 and 200+ pounds right? They suffer the same at the hands of players like Djokovic/Federer/Nadal. They'd play the match as the aggressor and what it would come down to is the UE count of Safin vs the winner count of Safin.

To me it is proven without doubt that defense and physicality trumps shotmaking on these slow surfaces. Then if you say that Safin might use more dropshots/slices and variety then lets say Soderling the result is the same. He is the player that must do the risky shots. In one match or in even a few matches it works. But over a full season or even a full career I don't think there was any hope for Safin of being the top 1-3. He would be a threat and an awesome player just not as successful as some people might think.

Djokovic got both options. He can grind it out because his endurance and defense is unrivaled. It's even better than Nadals at this stage. So he doesn't need to shorten points. He doesn't need to approach the net if he doesn't want to.

I don't think Safin with his body type could copy Djokovic. He doesn't have the catlike speed and agility. Have you seen Djokovic sliding down in those split like gets that he does multiple times every match? Safin could never play the game like that. He'd be dead in a week of tennis

Pirata.
01-30-2012, 05:58 AM
Unfortunately, neither had crap for drive when it came to the hunger, desire, and wanting to be the best.

Dave had a different kind of hunger :angel:

tennis2tennis
01-30-2012, 06:52 AM
it depends in this other univerise are David and Marat 24 and Roger 30 and way past his peak?

leng jai
01-30-2012, 06:53 AM
Of all the criticisms of Nalbandian, hunger should not be one of them.

tests
01-30-2012, 07:01 AM
Yes but they are both aggressive players 6'4 and 200+ pounds right? They suffer the same at the hands of players like Djokovic/Federer/Nadal. They'd play the match as the aggressor and what it would come down to is the UE count of Safin vs the winner count of Safin.

To me it is proven without doubt that defense and physicality trumps shotmaking on these slow surfaces. Then if you say that Safin might use more dropshots/slices and variety then lets say Soderling the result is the same. He is the player that must do the risky shots. In one match or in even a few matches it works. But over a full season or even a full career I don't think there was any hope for Safin of being the top 1-3. He would be a threat and an awesome player just not as successful as some people might think.

Djokovic got both options. He can grind it out because his endurance and defense is unrivaled. It's even better than Nadals at this stage. So he doesn't need to shorten points. He doesn't need to approach the net if he doesn't want to.

I don't think Safin with his body type could copy Djokovic. He doesn't have the catlike speed and agility. Have you seen Djokovic sliding down in those split like gets that he does multiple times every match? Safin could never play the game like that. He'd be dead in a week of tennis

Uhh... soderling doesn't lose to federer because he just piles on UE'S... he loses to federer because federer out-aggresses soderling and has a ton of shots that bother soderling. Safin on the other hand wasen't ever really bothered by federers low slices variety of shots etc.

tests
01-30-2012, 07:03 AM
Yes but they are both aggressive players 6'4 and 200+ pounds right? They suffer the same at the hands of players like Djokovic/Federer/Nadal. They'd play the match as the aggressor and what it would come down to is the UE count of Safin vs the winner count of Safin.

To me it is proven without doubt that defense and physicality trumps shotmaking on these slow surfaces. Then if you say that Safin might use more dropshots/slices and variety then lets say Soderling the result is the same. He is the player that must do the risky shots. In one match or in even a few matches it works. But over a full season or even a full career I don't think there was any hope for Safin of being the top 1-3. He would be a threat and an awesome player just not as successful as some people might think.

Djokovic got both options. He can grind it out because his endurance and defense is unrivaled. It's even better than Nadals at this stage. So he doesn't need to shorten points. He doesn't need to approach the net if he doesn't want to.

I don't think Safin with his body type could copy Djokovic. He doesn't have the catlike speed and agility. Have you seen Djokovic sliding down in those split like gets that he does multiple times every match? Safin could never play the game like that. He'd be dead in a week of tennis

You did misunderstand. I never said that safin SHOULD have played like djokovic is now. I was saying that WHEN safin won his first slam (and was i guess in his prime), with the talent safin has, he should have won NUMEROUS slam. If you have already forgotten, when safin was playing on the tour, 3 of the four slams played at a fast speed. Safin should have won 6-8 slams during that period. Nalby should have few some as well.

leng jai
01-30-2012, 07:14 AM
You did misunderstand. I never said that safin SHOULD have played like djokovic is now. I was saying that WHEN safin won his first slam (and was i guess in his prime), with the talent safin has, he should have won NUMEROUS slam. If you have already forgotten, when safin was playing on the tour, 3 of the four slams played at a fast speed. Safin should have won 6-8 slams during that period. Nalby should have few some as well.

You make it sound like slams fall from the sky. Its extremely tough to win even one and what the current top 3 are doing is not normal at all.

tests
01-30-2012, 07:20 AM
You make it sound like slams fall from the sky. Its extremely tough to win even one and what the current top 3 are doing is not normal at all.

yea i know. But these two CLEARLY had the talent to win slams in that range.

MariaV
01-30-2012, 07:55 AM
I have always been a fan of great tennis talents.... and safin/nalbandian certainly were great talents. Many believe that these two should have won numerous slams (safin obviously won 2) because they were one of the most talented, but were missing that special something between the ears and dedication (nalby's fitness etc).

I believe djokovic epitomes this. It was always evident that djokovic had the talent to win numerous slams. Once he put it together mentally (and physically), he is now starting to rake in slams.

I felt the same should have happened with safin/nalby (more so safin because of his athletic build and athleticism in general).

Novak will end up most likely with 8-10 slams. He will do what safin/nalby were not able to (Even though they had that potential).

Note: I AM NOT saying that safin/nalby are > djokovic. After all, djokovic has won more slams than these two and has dominated on an historic level. But talent wise... they certainly are comprable.

what do you guys think?

SHOULDA WOULDA COULDA....

You did misunderstand. I never said that safin SHOULD have played like djokovic is now. I was saying that WHEN safin won his first slam (and was i guess in his prime), with the talent safin has, he should have won NUMEROUS slam. If you have already forgotten, when safin was playing on the tour, 3 of the four slams played at a fast speed. Safin should have won 6-8 slams during that period. Nalby should have few some as well.

Yep it would be nice if Safin had some more GS titles but in 2001 after he had won the USO 2000 in an astonishing manner he overplayed and got back injury and at the AO 2003 he got a wrist injury.
And the fantastic movement he had until the knee injury in 2005 was never there after that.
Life doesn't always work out like that.

MariaV
01-30-2012, 07:58 AM
You make it sound like slams fall from the sky. Its extremely tough to win even one and what the current top 3 are doing is not normal at all.

Exactly, I dunno, we have started to consider it normal but it's not, at least it didn't use to be. Now with the homogenization of the surfaces as Roger said it's all become possible and... somehow normal.

MaxPower
01-30-2012, 08:11 AM
You did misunderstand. I never said that safin SHOULD have played like djokovic is now. I was saying that WHEN safin won his first slam (and was i guess in his prime), with the talent safin has, he should have won NUMEROUS slam. If you have already forgotten, when safin was playing on the tour, 3 of the four slams played at a fast speed. Safin should have won 6-8 slams during that period. Nalby should have few some as well.

I don't know really. Safin is only 1,5 year older than Federer. Nalbandian is actually younger by a few months. Was never much of a window unless they could solve Federer

But if you mean that Safin really was in his prime at 19 or so when he won his first slam then yeah maybe. Still very few players that young can have seasons with multiple slams. Most hit their prime later

TBkeeper
01-30-2012, 10:20 AM
Idk i only know that they are ordered by talent in that way:
Federer
.
.
.
Safin/Nalby/Davy
.
.
.
.
.
Djoko/Nadal/Murray
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Roddick/Hewitt
.
.
.
Rest of ATP

castrationcult
01-30-2012, 11:23 AM
Funny how over at MTF Davydenko seems to have become in his decline a kind of esoteric, talented headcase in the style of Safin or Nalbandian.

Back in his peak he was mostly criticised as a baseline robot, a fixer and a money-grubbing Russian who was only really celebrated whenever he beat Nadal.

Sophocles
01-30-2012, 11:53 AM
Uhh... soderling doesn't lose to federer because he just piles on UE'S... he loses to federer because federer out-aggresses soderling and has a ton of shots that bother soderling. Safin on the other hand wasen't ever really bothered by federers low slices variety of shots etc.

WHAT? Have you checked out their H2H?

Time Violation
01-30-2012, 11:56 AM
Funny how over at MTF Davydenko seems to have become in his decline a kind of esoteric, talented headcase in the style of Safin or Nalbandian.

Back in his peak he was mostly criticised as a baseline robot, a fixer and a money-grubbing Russian who was only really celebrated whenever he beat Nadal.

MTF nostalgia at its best. :) Everything then was top of the world, everything now is crap.

tests
01-30-2012, 10:31 PM
On a side note, imagine how amazing djokovic would be if he had the talent of a safin/nalbandian.

NID
01-30-2012, 10:41 PM
Funny how over at MTF Davydenko seems to have become in his decline a kind of esoteric, talented headcase in the style of Safin or Nalbandian.

Back in his peak he was mostly criticised as a baseline robot, a fixer and a money-grubbing Russian who was only really celebrated whenever he beat Nadal.

:D
word

guga2120
01-30-2012, 10:41 PM
Safin, did very well. He won two slams. He is very overrated in terms of talent though. Nowhere near the level of Novak.

Fat Dave, too injury prone, and not fit enough.

Looner
01-30-2012, 10:46 PM
Safin, did very well. He won two slams. He is very overrated in terms of talent though. Nowhere near the level of Novak.

Fat Dave, too injury prone, and not fit enough.

Can someone please explain to me how anyone can have a proper discussion with someone who makes such a stupid statement. Care to tell us which part of Safin's game was overrated? His DH BH or his powerful FH or his serve? Or maybe his excellent movement for his size or even maybe his excellent touch at the net? The only thing Safin lacked is dedication and a bit of luck with injuries. That is where Novak has a huge advantage over him. Of course, please feel free to (attempt to) make a valid argument for your statement.

As for Nalbandian, he is similar to Safin but his fitness did not allow him to achieve what his talent deserved.

guga2120
01-30-2012, 10:54 PM
Can someone please explain to me how anyone can have a proper discussion with someone who makes such a stupid statement. Care to tell us which part of Safin's game was overrated?

He was a headcase, and way too often was just a mindless ball basher. Don't get me wrong, he's not Soderling or Del potro. He could volley well and was clean hitter. Just go watch him play Santoro though, and you will see how great he was.

leng jai
01-30-2012, 10:58 PM
Nole more talented than Safin. That is one of the better gags I've heard today.

rocketassist
01-30-2012, 11:05 PM
Safin was one of the purest ballstrikers I've ever seen.

Aside from return, what Djokovic has over Safin is athletic traits, not tennis skills. And in 2012, the former are much more important.

Looner
01-30-2012, 11:06 PM
He was a headcase, and way too often was just a mindless ball basher. Don't get me wrong, he's not Soderling or Del potro. He could volley well and was clean hitter. Just go watch him play Santoro though, and you will see how great he was.

Dude, do you understand what raw talent means. The mental aspect is NOT included. You just defeated your own argument, I'm sorry to say.

tests
01-30-2012, 11:53 PM
Safin, did very well. He won two slams. He is very overrated in terms of talent though. Nowhere near the level of Novak.

Fat Dave, too injury prone, and not fit enough.

:o

tests
01-30-2012, 11:55 PM
Nole more talented than Safin. That is one of the better gags I've heard today.

you will only hear it from that guga clown. He is a fed hater, and hates almost everyone from fed's era.

NadalPhan
01-31-2012, 03:42 AM
you will only hear it from that guga clown. He is a fed hater, and hates almost everyone from fed's era.

Did you not Ballbasher's post calling Djokovic more talented than these two? I understand he likes Nole, but the bias is clearly showing here.

tests
01-31-2012, 05:14 AM
Did you not Ballbasher's post calling Djokovic more talented than these two? I understand he likes Nole, but the bias is clearly showing here.

ah, i probably missed it. And i disagree, nole is not more talented than safin or nalbandian.

Shinoj
01-31-2012, 07:43 AM
I think its incredible for Tennis for Djokovic to be so successful. First of all he has natural talent and always is the player who is willing to take risks. And in the match against Nadal, many would have got disheartened and gave up in the fifth set after having played so well in the precedin sets and still having to play out the fifth set. I know for sure, Olderer would be one. He would have given up in the fifth. But full credit to Djokovic, he never left his natural game and that was to attack attack attack. Only i wished he would have come to Net more often. The match would have been over in three sets. 7-5,6-4,6-2.

MariaV
01-31-2012, 08:14 AM
Funny how over at MTF Davydenko seems to have become in his decline a kind of esoteric, talented headcase in the style of Safin or Nalbandian.

Back in his peak he was mostly criticised as a baseline robot, a fixer and a money-grubbing Russian who was only really celebrated whenever he beat Nadal.

Davydenko was underrented. :awww: :shrug: ;)

I think its incredible for Tennis for Djokovic to be so successful. First of all he has natural talent and always is the player who is willing to take risks. And in the match against Nadal, many would have got disheartened and gave up in the fifth set after having played so well in the precedin sets and still having to play out the fifth set. I know for sure, Olderer would be one. He would have given up in the fifth. But full credit to Djokovic, he never left his natural game and that was to attack attack attack. Only i wished he would have come to Net more often. The match would have been over in three sets. 7-5,6-4,6-2.

Nole of old (I mean a few years back with his breathing/health/fitness issues) would've given up too. Now he is inhuman unlike the others. :shrug:

tnosugar
01-31-2012, 08:47 AM
it's the shoulda, woulda thread, which is 80% of this bloody forum now.

can someone please start a new invitation-only forum where we can discuss tennis without fortune telling.

or at least an alternative general thread locked to all the trolls.

nalbyfan
01-31-2012, 12:27 PM
Both Nalby and Safin were plagued by injuries. Let's see if Nole can stand the pace without beeing injured all the time like them

Sunset of Age
01-31-2012, 12:40 PM
Perhaps Safin, Nalbandian et al. couldn't win multiple slams because there happened to be one or two other guys around who were better than them?
It's just a thought, I know. :rolleyes:

You make it sound like slams fall from the sky. Its extremely tough to win even one and what the current top 3 are doing is not normal at all.

This cannot be emphasized enough times.

Ultravox
01-31-2012, 02:33 PM
Djokovic is nowhere near as talented as those 2 guys were. If they put more effort into tennis, they would be sharing a lot more slams with Federer now.

Really? Is there a special scale that measures the talent? No? Then anyone can claim anything. I can wrote that Fed is nowhere as talented as Berdych and Delpo. Can you prove the opposite?

LaFuria
01-31-2012, 04:41 PM
you will only hear it from that guga clown. He is a fed hater, and hates almost everyone from fed's era.

I think he just hates anyone who is not a counterpuncher. The fact that Safin played offensively instead of running around means, by guga's logic, that he is a "mindless ballbasher" or something.

Roger the Dodger
01-31-2012, 04:49 PM
The comparison is ridiculous.

and to add to what a user said, the fact that someone like nadal who is really a great athlete and strong willed man without tennis aesthetics is dominating the scenario for years shows how the whole tour (Fed included - Nole now excluded) needed to evolve in the mental department. Safin and Nalbandian are way more talented than Nole but this new mentally strong Nole is now Nadal's alter-ego with better tennis.

piksi
01-31-2012, 05:31 PM
Do you consider the "mental" part of the talent also? Tennis is much much more than just hitting the ball.

Roger the Dodger
01-31-2012, 05:35 PM
Do you consider the "mental" part of the talent also? Tennis is much much more than just hitting the ball.

Two things:

1. Tennis is more than hitting the ball.
2. The mental part is not talent.

The mental part is very important these days in sports and tennis requires a high amount of it.

piksi
01-31-2012, 05:46 PM
What is a talent?

Everyone in the top 100 can hit the ball well. Only few have brains to make right decisions in a game that is decided literary by few points.

Certinfy
01-31-2012, 05:47 PM
Talent doesn't exist.

tests
02-01-2012, 03:33 AM
Perhaps Safin, Nalbandian et al. couldn't win multiple slams because there happened to be one or two other guys around who were better than them?
It's just a thought, I know. :rolleyes:



This cannot be emphasized enough times.

This line of thinking makes sense... except for the fact that SAFIN was not losing slams only to a federer or nadal. Nably same thing

tests
02-01-2012, 03:38 AM
What is a talent?

Everyone in the top 100 can hit the ball well. Only few have brains to make right decisions in a game that is decided literary by few points.

Any tennis fan with a brain can see that players like federer, safin, nalbandian, ooze talent.

Naudio Spanlatine
02-01-2012, 05:02 AM
THIS THREAD! Wait what the hell is this? :spit:

JediFed
02-01-2012, 11:22 AM
Dave had a different kind of hunger


:spit::D

You must give out more reputation before giving it to Pirata again.

adam10
02-01-2012, 02:32 PM
Safin, maybe. I don't think Nalby can win 5 slams.

velikikomsa@gmai
02-01-2012, 03:15 PM
Djokovic is nowhere near as talented as those 2 guys were. If they put more effort into tennis, they would be sharing a lot more slams with Federer now.

This guy sounds like living talentmeter.

tektonac
02-01-2012, 04:01 PM
Wilander on Djokovic:

full article: http://tinyurl.com/7zp2pfg

....

“The only reason maybe he doesn’t win a match is because he’s looking for energy and he’s showing all of us that he’s looking for it, and that’s unprofessional,” Wilander said. “The only reason Nadal is in it is because he doesn’t look for it. It’s just there, and when Novak learns how to do that, he’s going to be kicking these guys’ tails for a long time.

“He’s just so clean with his strokes. It’s just, ‘O.K., let me accelerate.’ And then boom. Nadal just doesn’t have that. It’s amazing, because Novak is cleaner than Federer. He’s like a Marat Safin who moves. It’s the same sort of power.”

tests
02-01-2012, 09:00 PM
Wilander on Djokovic:

full article: http://tinyurl.com/7zp2pfg

....

“The only reason maybe he doesn’t win a match is because he’s looking for energy and he’s showing all of us that he’s looking for it, and that’s unprofessional,” Wilander said. “The only reason Nadal is in it is because he doesn’t look for it. It’s just there, and when Novak learns how to do that, he’s going to be kicking these guys’ tails for a long time.

“He’s just so clean with his strokes. It’s just, ‘O.K., let me accelerate.’ And then boom. Nadal just doesn’t have that. It’s amazing, because Novak is cleaner than Federer. He’s like a Marat Safin who moves. It’s the same sort of power.”

Safin's strokes are cleaner and his power is more evident IMO, but i guess what he is saying makes sense. Novak can hit the ball in a way that nadal can only dream of

Vida
02-01-2012, 09:30 PM
I doubt safin or, especially, nalbandian ever had it in them for what djoko has done for the past year and some. safin had no such defense and wasnt as proficient on all surfaces, while nalbandian simply hadnt had enough weapons to keep pummeling everyone for as long as nole is doing now.

finishingmove
02-01-2012, 09:59 PM
Djokovic is doing what everyone would do if they could.

tests
02-08-2012, 03:33 AM
bump

leng jai
02-08-2012, 04:04 AM
Ajde?

stewietennis
02-08-2012, 04:22 AM
To me, Novak appears to move much more fluidly than Safin and Nalbandian. The latter two are great shotmakers but Novak's defense is what makes him extremely difficult to beat. So, no Djokovic isn't doing what Marat and David should have.

Alex999
02-08-2012, 08:39 AM
To me, Novak appears to move much more fluidly than Safin and Nalbandian. The latter two are great shotmakers but Novak's defense is what makes him extremely difficult to beat. So, no Djokovic isn't doing what Marat and David should have.
this. I also think that Novak is simply more dedicated to tennis and his career. I love both Safin and Nalbandian (I can watch their matches 24/7) but I don't think they have worked too hard.

nalbyfan
02-08-2012, 08:50 AM
this. I also think that Novak is simply more dedicated to tennis and his career. I love both Safin and Nalbandian (I can watch their matches 24/7) but I don't think they have worked too hard.

Don't agree at all : it's impossible to be in top 3 (like Safin and Nalby) if you're not dedicated to tennis. For the moment Nole is 25 but in which shape will he be at the age of 30 ? Last year he was almost unable to play a decent match after USO because he was exhausted and injured. Let's see if he can play a whole season without beeing injured and believe me there is no relation between dedication and injuries

Alex999
02-09-2012, 03:17 AM
Don't agree at all : it's impossible to be in top 3 (like Safin and Nalby) if you're not dedicated to tennis. For the moment Nole is 25 but in which shape will he be at the age of 30 ? Last year he was almost unable to play a decent match after USO because he was exhausted and injured. Let's see if he can play a whole season without beeing injured and believe me there is no relation between dedication and injuries

we'll see. I'm not saying that Nalby and Safin weren't dedicated. I'm a huge fan of both of them. I just believe that they underachieved. Nalbandian especially.

As for Nole, when he is 30, who knows? To be honest with you, I simply think that Novak didn't really care about anything after the USO win. I really don't know what to make about the whole injury thing. It's like you are injured in November, December and then you show up at the AO and you win :). It's just a game.

Warort
02-09-2012, 04:48 AM
I think that Nalby has a great talent. But the problem is that he had many injures and his physique is to bad. I don´t think that if he had done everything like Novak, he would won many GS, because Novak´s physique is just unique.

In my opinion there is 3 things very important at tennis:

1) Talent/technique/wathever (if you dont have this you can not be professional).
2) Mental
3) Physique

There is a lot of players that have talent but not enough. They are fine but theirlevel isn´t to good and they keep playing challengers or 1st round ATP.
Then you have players that have a better technique but they are to weak mentaly and irregular.
After that you have a few players that have items 1 and 2 but not 3. This is the case of Nalbandian and may be Safin.
If you have the 3 items, then you are a monster (Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray).

Houstonko
02-09-2012, 08:14 AM
imo DJoker won't get this sort of confidence if he is the one challenging Federer's dominance similar to what happened to safin/nalbandian. He came when Nadal is dominating. Right away Djoker knows Nadal is very beatable and Federer is much tougher for him. Maybe because Nadal plays a reactive style with inferior strokes compared to Djoker. He is never ever afraid of Nadal.

tests
02-10-2012, 08:42 PM
I think that Nalby has a great talent. But the problem is that he had many injures and his physique is to bad. I don´t think that if he had done everything like Novak, he would won many GS, because Novak´s physique is just unique.

In my opinion there is 3 things very important at tennis:

1) Talent/technique/wathever (if you dont have this you can not be professional).
2) Mental
3) Physique

There is a lot of players that have talent but not enough. They are fine but theirlevel isn´t to good and they keep playing challengers or 1st round ATP.
Then you have players that have a better technique but they are to weak mentaly and irregular.
After that you have a few players that have items 1 and 2 but not 3. This is the case of Nalbandian and may be Safin.
If you have the 3 items, then you are a monster (Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray).


How is djokovic's physique unique? His endurance and running ability (i.e. defense) sure is, but not his physique. Maybe it has something to do with the biology of muscles

BauerAlmeida
02-10-2012, 09:10 PM
Nalbandian and Safin were the most talented players in the last years (after Federer, or even at his level). But they lacked the motivation to become a legend, they weren't dedicated enough and preferred to do other stuff than being dedicated to tennis 24/7. This is why they were in bad shape in many tournaments and were too inconsistent.

munZe konZa
02-11-2012, 12:30 AM
imo DJoker won't get this sort of confidence if he is the one challenging Federer's dominance similar to what happened to safin/nalbandian. He came when Nadal is dominating. Right away Djoker knows Nadal is very beatable and Federer is much tougher for him. Maybe because Nadal plays a reactive style with inferior strokes compared to Djoker. He is never ever afraid of Nadal.

It's much tougher to beat Nadal because he was never dominated by any player . Federer was always dominated by one player or another.

fast_clay
02-11-2012, 12:46 AM
It's much tougher to beat Nadal because he was never dominated by any player . Federer was always dominated by one player or another.

Wrong.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/patma2003/ownership.jpg

Next.

Alex999
02-11-2012, 01:56 AM
well, at least Safin managed to win 2 slams. unfortunately, Nalbandian will never win a major. it's too late. too bad, too sad... gosh, I will never forget how well he played when he won back to back masters (I think 2007) beating Nadal and Rog. we expected that he was going to win the AO and he played complete crap there.

Inconsistent and not dedicated enough...that's all I can say.

Djokovic is simply on another level. I wouldn't even compare Nalb and Safin with him.

stewietennis
02-11-2012, 01:57 AM
It's much tougher to beat Nadal because he was never dominated by any player . Federer was always dominated by one player or another.

It would have been much tougher to beat peak Federer. And who is this other that you speak of? Surely, it's not Murray.

Nadal never really dominated the game the way Federer did – even Nadal's peak seasons in 2008 and 2010. Federer's domination during years 2004-2006 was suffocating (except on clay); Nadal's stranglehold on the tour during the aforementioned two seasons were tenuous. Nadal goes through peaks and troughs – he could go ballistic for three months then play above average (ie beatable) the next few. Federer never went through that – his domination was consecutive years so by 2006/2007 people started wondering when he would "come back down to Earth". Nadal's 2008 didn't really start out good (trough) then he won FO, Wimby & Olympics (peak) then lost USO & World Tour Finals (trough); then won Australian 2009 (peak) then went through a malaise for one year until 2010 French Open until the US Open (peak); then lost World Tour Finals & Australian (trough). Certainly no one wanted to play Nadal but he never had the air of invincibility that Federer did. One could say that it's easier to break through the Federer armour because Nadal has identified a weakness in it – not really, because then everyone could have exploited it but only Nadal could. Federer crumbles against Nadal but the tour doesn't consist of just Nadal.

leng jai
02-11-2012, 02:46 AM
Wrong.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/patma2003/ownership.jpg

Next.

Gooch with 2 less losses. Guy's hair color is not the only superior thing about him.

Ajde

Hewitt =Legend
02-11-2012, 03:31 AM
Gooch has only tanked 62 matches in his career while Rafito has lost 118.

Pure and utter dominance from G Unit.

Ajde.

Alex999
02-11-2012, 04:18 AM
It would have been much tougher to beat peak Federer. And who is this other that you speak of? Surely, it's not Murray.

Nadal never really dominated the game the way Federer did – even Nadal's peak seasons in 2008 and 2010. Federer's domination during years 2004-2006 was suffocating (except on clay); Nadal's stranglehold on the tour during the aforementioned two seasons were tenuous. Nadal goes through peaks and troughs – he could go ballistic for three months then play above average (ie beatable) the next few. Federer never went through that – his domination was consecutive years so by 2006/2007 people started wondering when he would "come back down to Earth". Nadal's 2008 didn't really start out good (trough) then he won FO, Wimby & Olympics (peak) then lost USO & World Tour Finals (trough); then won Australian 2009 (peak) then went through a malaise for one year until 2010 French Open until the US Open (peak); then lost World Tour Finals & Australian (trough). Certainly no one wanted to play Nadal but he never had the air of invincibility that Federer did. One could say that it's easier to break through the Federer armour because Nadal has identified a weakness in it – not really, because then everyone could have exploited it but only Nadal could. Federer crumbles against Nadal but the tour doesn't consist of just Nadal.
meh, not sure about that. Obviously you are a Rog fan, but Nadal did dominate in 2010 plus (like it or not), Nadal owns Roger. Roger was 'lucky' enough to have literary no competition back then. whatever