Did anyone else feel the excessive gamesmanship from both players tainted it a bit? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Did anyone else feel the excessive gamesmanship from both players tainted it a bit?

2003
01-29-2012, 11:23 PM
I felt Nadals excessive cheering and fist pumping after simply winning his own simple service points in the 4th set, and that celebration after winning the 4th set was very unnesascary. Sure, celebrate when you win a break point or something, but winning a service point is just a bit excessive and shows he knew he was being outplayed.

Similarly, the dramatic way Novak fell to the ground in the 5th set was a bit silly :) He got up and continued to play fine after that point. Also, like it or not, he was clearly faking sluggishness in the 5th set. He would hit a shot with perfect follow through, and only after it missed he sort of slumped over and limped a bit. It was painfully obvious and it cant be denied. He did it at least 2-3 times.

And finally, both players were taking in excess of 30 seconds between points, and despite a friendly warning, NOTHING was done yet again from the umpire.

Not to sound hatefull, but this is kind of why I like the Federer Murray matches. You dont get so much of this kind of thing. It was still a great match but the commentators are just so clueless, after seeing it time and time and time again with Ferrer, Murray et all, they still thought Novak was dead tired :rolleyes:

I dont have a problem with it actually, I just wish the commentators and expert would stop pretending and admit that gamesmanship has become a part of the game at the top.

r3d_d3v1l_
01-29-2012, 11:28 PM
I agree. A little bit too much drama for my taste.

tests
01-29-2012, 11:29 PM
I felt Nadals excessive cheering and fist pumping after simply winning his own simple service points in the 4th set, and that celebration after winning the 4th set was very unnesascary. Sure, celebrate when you win a break point or something, but winning a service point is just a bit excessive and shows he knew he was being outplayed.

Similarly, the dramatic way Novak fell to the ground in the 5th set was a bit silly :) He got up and continued to play fine after that point. Also, like it or not, he was clearly faking sluggishness in the 5th set. He would hit a shot with perfect follow through, and only after it missed he sort of slumped over and limped a bit. It was painfully obvious and it cant be denied. He did it at least 2-3 times.

And finally, both players were taking in excess of 30 seconds between points, and despite a friendly warning, NOTHING was done yet again from the umpire.

Not to sound hatefull, but this is kind of why I like the Federer Murray matches. You dont get so much of this kind of thing. It was still a great match but the commentators are just so clueless, after seeing it time and time and time again with Ferrer, Murray et all, they still thought Novak was dead tired :rolleyes:

I dont have a problem with it actually, I just wish the commentators and expert would stop pretending and admit that gamesmanship has become a part of the game at the top.


This is what makes federer so great. He never does any of this shit, and he always looks fit enuff for the occasion.

On a side note, nadal's ridiculous fist pumps after every point and his maniac yelling was downright scary.

leng jai
01-29-2012, 11:35 PM
Obviously people like it, as do the broadcasters. Have you seen the prematch promos with the gladiatorial music and slow mos of their ridiculous celebrations? Its a fucking tennis match not a one on one fight to the death. Everyone is so desperate for matches to be "epic" these days regardless of the actual play is. If you asked 90% of fans they'd rather watch a 5 hour baseline fest with filled with choking rather than a high quality tennis match that lasted for 3 hours.

MuzzahLovah
01-29-2012, 11:37 PM
I felt Nadals excessive cheering and fist pumping after simply winning his own simple service points in the 4th set, and that celebration after winning the 4th set was very unnesascary. Sure, celebrate when you win a break point or something, but winning a service point is just a bit excessive and shows he knew he was being outplayed.

Similarly, the dramatic way Novak fell to the ground in the 5th set was a bit silly :) He got up and continued to play fine after that point. Also, like it or not, he was clearly faking sluggishness in the 5th set. He would hit a shot with perfect follow through, and only after it missed he sort of slumped over and limped a bit. It was painfully obvious and it cant be denied. He did it at least 2-3 times.

And finally, both players were taking in excess of 30 seconds between points, and despite a friendly warning, NOTHING was done yet again from the umpire.

Not to sound hatefull, but this is kind of why I like the Federer Murray matches. You dont get so much of this kind of thing. It was still a great match but the commentators are just so clueless, after seeing it time and time and time again with Ferrer, Murray et all, they still thought Novak was dead tired :rolleyes:

I dont have a problem with it actually, I just wish the commentators and expert would stop pretending and admit that gamesmanship has become a part of the game at the top.


Football/Soccer diving is now a part of tennis :sad:
The commentators are horrible. The way they say with a straight face that this is the longest final ever as if it was the most arduous- the Roddick Fed Wimbledon final that went to 16-14 in the 5th didn't last longer because they didn't continually violate the time rules.

Regenbogen
01-29-2012, 11:38 PM
Along the same lines, was Nadal more...aggressive than usual in the warm-up? It looked to me like he was kind of trying to do a "win" the warm-up thing, but it might be just me.

MuzzahLovah
01-29-2012, 11:39 PM
Obviously people like it, as do the broadcasters. Have you seen the prematch promos with the gladiatorial music and slow mos of their ridiculous celebrations? Its a fucking tennis match no a one on one fight to the death. Everyone is so desperate for matches to be "epic" these days regardless of the actual play is. If you asked 90% of fans they'd rather watch a 5 hour baseline fest with filled with choking rather than a high quality tennis match that lasted for 3 hours.

I was praying that Djokovic would finish some points at net and win the fourth set tiebreak.

ballbasher101
01-29-2012, 11:39 PM
No player is perfect sadly. They all have their faults. Most of the things listed by the OP don't really bother me that much. Nadal has been doing his thing since forever. The Djoker has improved in certain areas but he still has some way to go, he is trying though. A lot of people still have not forgiven the Djoker for what he did during those dark days were he quit in almost every major. I'm gland he out grew that phase. The time they take between points will never change, they are too used to doing it.

Raiden
01-29-2012, 11:43 PM
What tainted the final as much as anything was the excessive gamesmanship by linesmen.

ballbasher101
01-29-2012, 11:43 PM
I was praying that Djokovic would finish some points at net and win the fourth set tiebreak.


He needs to volley more especially in punishing matches like the one today. It makes life easier. Murray should also volley more. Heck every player on tour should learn how to freakin volley.

Time Violation
01-29-2012, 11:46 PM
There's always some drama with Nole when he's on court, it's just the way he is :) However, I don't get how is the facial/body expression gamesmanship? Why would anyone give a sh*t whether his opponent is happy, sad, or whatever?

MuzzahLovah
01-29-2012, 11:47 PM
He needs to volley more especially in punishing matches like the one today. It makes life easier. Murray should also volley more. Heck every player on tour should learn how to freakin volley.

The sad thing, despite some nervous misses, he's a more talented volleyer than either Djokovic or Nadal. His approach/transition game needs work though.

MaxPower
01-29-2012, 11:52 PM
I felt Nadals excessive cheering and fist pumping after simply winning his own simple service points in the 4th set, and that celebration after winning the 4th set was very unnesascary. Sure, celebrate when you win a break point or something, but winning a service point is just a bit excessive and shows he knew he was being outplayed.

Similarly, the dramatic way Novak fell to the ground in the 5th set was a bit silly :) He got up and continued to play fine after that point. Also, like it or not, he was clearly faking sluggishness in the 5th set. He would hit a shot with perfect follow through, and only after it missed he sort of slumped over and limped a bit. It was painfully obvious and it cant be denied. He did it at least 2-3 times.

And finally, both players were taking in excess of 30 seconds between points, and despite a friendly warning, NOTHING was done yet again from the umpire.

Not to sound hatefull, but this is kind of why I like the Federer Murray matches. You dont get so much of this kind of thing. It was still a great match but the commentators are just so clueless, after seeing it time and time and time again with Ferrer, Murray et all, they still thought Novak was dead tired :rolleyes:

I dont have a problem with it actually, I just wish the commentators and expert would stop pretending and admit that gamesmanship has become a part of the game at the top.

That was the big taint. Probably watched a full hour of Nadal buttpicks and and Djokovic ball bouncing. Funny how the media will pimp this up as the greatest ever and how the physicality was over the top when both players AVERAGED 30-35 sec. That means sometimes they took a full minute...

That's were the theatrics come in form both players. Did you notice how Nadal slowly walks up when he wants to challenge? How they both often asks the umpire? How they sometimes after a long point are super-slow to recover and get back to position? All such things add up too. They deliberately slow down the game for more rest. The only thing that makes it semi-fair is that they both do it. Problem is that many players that face them aren't using the same tactics and become frustrated instead because they have to wait all the time.

paseo
01-30-2012, 12:01 AM
Yes. Too many rules breaking.

Tutu
01-30-2012, 12:08 AM
Obviously people like it, as do the broadcasters. Have you seen the prematch promos with the gladiatorial music and slow mos of their ridiculous celebrations? Its a fucking tennis match not a one on one fight to the death. Everyone is so desperate for matches to be "epic" these days regardless of the actual play is. If you asked 90% of fans they'd rather watch a 5 hour baseline fest with filled with choking rather than a high quality tennis match that lasted for 3 hours.
This x988998. I can't wait for the day that tennis becomes about the tennis again.

MatchFederer
01-30-2012, 12:08 AM
I agree on the lines person's gamesmanship tainting the match and wrongly punishing several perfect Djokovic plays.

rinnegan
01-30-2012, 12:08 AM
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ls5jrxbRAa1qhvvqg.gif

How dare they show their emotions on court! How dare Nole show any fatigue after plating over ten hours of tennis in three days! Why can't they act like PR muppets all the time?

Schu
01-30-2012, 12:12 AM
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ls5jrxbRAa1qhvvqg.gif

How dare they show their emotions on court! How dare Nole show any fatigue after plating over ten hours of tennis in three days! Why can't they act like PR muppets all the time?

Yes! Much prefer some of this emotion than the stone faced/inhuman Federer.

MatchFederer
01-30-2012, 12:12 AM
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ls5jrxbRAa1qhvvqg.gif

How dare they show their emotions on court! How dare Nole show any fatigue after plating over ten hours of tennis in three days! Why can't they act like PR muppets all the time?

Agreed, good points.
LOL

PitsOfTheWorld
01-30-2012, 12:15 AM
That was the big taint. Probably watched a full hour of Nadal buttpicks and and Djokovic ball bouncing. Funny how the media will pimp this up as the greatest ever and how the physicality was over the top when both players AVERAGED 30-35 sec. That means sometimes they took a full minute...


Umm, not quite. That's not how averages work. Some of them were longer (I seem to recall Nole taking 50 seconds at one point), but the fact that their average was 30-35 seconds doesn't necessarily mean that sometimes they took a minute.

Goddammit, for such a hoity-toity rich sport there are a lot of idiots on this forum.

ballbasher101
01-30-2012, 12:16 AM
The sad thing, despite some nervous misses, he's a more talented volleyer than either Djokovic or Nadal. His approach/transition game needs work though.


Agree with you there. His volleys are naturally very good. If he can improve the forehand down the line then life would become so much easier for him. He used that shot well when he beat Nadal in the semis of the US open. I was all over the place cheering him own in that match, nearly broke a few things :lol:. I want more moments like that. Lendl work your magic sir.

bokehlicious
01-30-2012, 06:20 AM
That's why both of them are cancer to the sport.

FairWeatherFan
01-30-2012, 06:26 AM
This is why Nadal is probably the most classless player of all time. He acts gracious, humble and polite off-court, but on-court is anything but. A true hypocrite.

scoutreporter
01-30-2012, 06:27 AM
This is what makes federer so great. He never does any of this shit, and he always looks fit enuff for the occasion.

On a side note, nadal's ridiculous fist pumps after every point and his maniac yelling was downright scary.


What makes Nole and Rafa great, and much greater than crybaby roger, is, that they can appreciate their opponent, they are humble, and down to earth poeple. Federer is arrogant twat, he never applauds hes oppenent. Look at hes fucking press con. after US open semi, its a disgrace to sport, that a man like him is considered the GOAT. He can never and never will be the GOAT as long as hes record in GS against rafa is 2-8 and counting, he is only one up against Nole, before he quits it will be in Noles favour. So that evil, twat, I think evil is the best word to describe that rich spoiled evil twat of a crybaby....

tripwires
01-30-2012, 07:04 AM
What makes Nole and Rafa great, and much greater than crybaby roger, is, that they can appreciate their opponent, they are humble, and down to earth poeple. Federer is arrogant twat, he never applauds hes oppenent. Look at hes fucking press con. after US open semi, its a disgrace to sport, that a man like him is considered the GOAT. He can never and never will be the GOAT as long as hes record in GS against rafa is 2-8 and counting, he is only one up against Nole, before he quits it will be in Noles favour. So that evil, twat, I think evil is the best word to describe that rich spoiled evil twat of a crybaby....

:superlol: Brilliant trolling. :worship:

A bit? I think that's a bit of an understatement. Nadal's come on-ing at nole's UE was desperate, unnecessary and hilarious.

tests
01-30-2012, 07:07 AM
This is why Nadal is probably the most classless player of all time. He acts gracious, humble and polite off-court, but on-court is anything but. A true hypocrite.

nadal is an animal on the court. A disgrace to the game of tennis.

stewietennis
01-30-2012, 07:26 AM
This is why Nadal is probably the most classless player of all time. He acts gracious, humble and polite off-court, but on-court is anything but. A true hypocrite.

Agreed. Same with trash talking basketball players with flagrant fouls. Football players who hit harder than necessary. Hockey players who get into punch ups. How dare they compete and celebrate as hard as they can in the heat of the moment then be nice at the end of the match. It's a travesty to sports.

MariaV
01-30-2012, 07:37 AM
Obviously people like it, as do the broadcasters. Have you seen the prematch promos with the gladiatorial music and slow mos of their ridiculous celebrations? Its a fucking tennis match not a one on one fight to the death. Everyone is so desperate for matches to be "epic" these days regardless of the actual play is. If you asked 90% of fans they'd rather watch a 5 hour baseline fest with filled with choking rather than a high quality tennis match that lasted for 3 hours.

I rather watch a high quality tennis match that lasted for 3 (max 4) hours but then I might not be a tennis fan. :shrug: :sad:
And there was nothing epic abut yesterday's final. :o

MaxPower
01-30-2012, 07:50 AM
Umm, not quite. That's not how averages work. Some of them were longer (I seem to recall Nole taking 50 seconds at one point), but the fact that their average was 30-35 seconds doesn't necessarily mean that sometimes they took a minute.

Goddammit, for such a hoity-toity rich sport there are a lot of idiots on this forum.

3 posts in all this time and that's all you got? Doesn't mean it took a minute? No it doesn't but I even clocked a few myself and it sure did. Also why do you bring up a Djokovic example when Nadal had an average 5 sec longer? He had multiple outliers 45-60+ sec. Go back and watch the match if you don't believe it. It's counted from when the ball is dead remember.

This is the rulebook:

Continuous Play / Delay of Game
Following the expiration of the warm-up period, play shall be continuous and a player shall not unreasonably delay a match for any cause. A maximum of twentyfive (25) seconds shall elapse from the moment the ball goes out of play until the time the ball is struck for the next point. If such serve is a fault, then the second serve must be struck by the Server without delay.

Which is funny because both players were at least 10 times over the course of the match (probably more) closer to a full minute than to the 25 sec maximum. And guess what? No single time warning was given except that the Umpire told both players at changeover that they needed to speed up

If you want to defend that then go ahead

bandabou
01-30-2012, 08:31 AM
Nahh, it's good. In the 4th and 5th set there ain't no unimportant points. So it's good. 3-4 0-40 down and 1-2 in sets and you get out of that game...and you don't earn the right to celebrate?! :lol: You people are crazy.

hilluis
01-30-2012, 10:42 AM
For sure the match went longer because of the time taken between points. What baffles me is how weak the umpires are these days - particularly the men. The linecalls were appalling last night and Pascal Maria was reluctant to overrule because he knew the players would challenge. As usual, he gave a friendly smiley warning about the time taken inbetween points but did nothing further. Same old same old. So much talk about the women grunting ( the men do too of course and turn it on and off ) but why not enforce the real rules? The women umpires are far more decisive in my opinion.

ossie
01-30-2012, 10:44 AM
their gamesmanship pales in front of the arrogance of fedsmug

nadalwon2012
01-30-2012, 10:51 AM
OP, and others, you are forgetting that Nadal was in danger of being broken in nearly every service game in the entire match. Every point he won in his serve was HUGE. He was constantly on edge when serving, because Djok kept getting to 30-30. So when Nadal won a point to go up 30-0 or even 15-0, it was a huge point for him.

Mystique
01-30-2012, 12:04 PM
Obviously people like it, as do the broadcasters. Have you seen the prematch promos with the gladiatorial music and slow mos of their ridiculous celebrations? Its a fucking tennis match not a one on one fight to the death. Everyone is so desperate for matches to be "epic" these days regardless of the actual play is. If you asked 90% of fans they'd rather watch a 5 hour baseline fest with filled with choking rather than a high quality tennis match that lasted for 3 hours.

Truer words have not been spoken.

And we are being told those are the "real tennis fans" apparently

Myrre
01-30-2012, 02:35 PM
What makes Nole and Rafa great, and much greater than crybaby roger, is, that they can appreciate their opponent, they are humble, and down to earth poeple. Federer is arrogant twat, he never applauds hes oppenent. Look at hes fucking press con. after US open semi, its a disgrace to sport, that a man like him is considered the GOAT. He can never and never will be the GOAT as long as hes record in GS against rafa is 2-8 and counting, he is only one up against Nole, before he quits it will be in Noles favour. So that evil, twat, I think evil is the best word to describe that rich spoiled evil twat of a crybaby....

Personally I don't give a shit how players behave off-court. They can do and say anything they like. All that matters to me is how they behave on-court. That's where they show their true colours.

thrust
01-30-2012, 02:54 PM
Yes. Too many rules breaking.

First of all it was hot and very humid during the final, therefore, not to allow some extra time between points would be inhumane considering the long tough rallies. Also we must accept that there is, in some peoples minds, only one Roger Federer who is perfect in every aspect of the game. Stop bitching people and enjoy the great tennis! But then, Roger does have one flaw, he can't beat Rafa very often.

Sunset of Age
01-30-2012, 03:03 PM
Obviously people like it, as do the broadcasters. Have you seen the prematch promos with the gladiatorial music and slow mos of their ridiculous celebrations? Its a fucking tennis match not a one on one fight to the death. Everyone is so desperate for matches to be "epic" these days regardless of the actual play is. If you asked 90% of fans they'd rather watch a 5 hour baseline fest with filled with choking rather than a high quality tennis match that lasted for 3 hours.

Let's just conclude that some over here enjoy such a sad image of the sport a lot - personally I'd rather see this whole 'Spartan'-BS-image imposed on certain players die a quick and merciless death asap.
That said, every player exposes his joy and his sadness differently, and I myself never am bothered by it. I don't really feel it's 'gamesmanship' at all.
Emotions are a hard thing to 'controll'.

As for your last sentence... unfortunately I feel it's indeed going that way. Can't believe all of the cheering claims of yesterday's final being 'fantastic' and the like whereas the truth is that the tennis quality was just merely decent at most.
(which, of course, is merely a personal opinion.)

YellowBullet
01-30-2012, 03:27 PM
Gamesmanship?

I didn't see any gamesmanship in the match. Just two great tennis players giving absolutely their last ounce of energy and then some. So they took extra time between points... who cares? I'm sure the extra time was equally appreciated on both sides of the net, as they were both extremely tired towards the end of the match.

Gamesmanship is when an athlete tries unsportsmanlike methods to gain an unfair advantage over his opponent. Stopping in the middle of the serve just to throw the opponent off balance, trying to show the umpire a different ball mark from the actual one to get the call in their favor, calling a medical time-out just to stop opponent's momentum, that would be gamesmanship. Watch some soccer (diving to get a penalty call), waterpolo (literally trying to drown your opponent), basketball, football (talk about excessive celebration after EVERY single play).

Celebrating too much? Looking tired too much? Taking extra time between points? You guys have to be joking. This was a 6 hour Grand Slam final, for Pete's sake.

finishingmove
01-30-2012, 04:42 PM
Gamesmanship?

I didn't see any gamesmanship in the match. Just two great tennis players giving absolutely their last ounce of energy and then some. So they took extra time between points... who cares? I'm sure the extra time was equally appreciated on both sides of the net, as they were both extremely tired towards the end of the match.

Gamesmanship is when an athlete tries unsportsmanlike methods to gain an unfair advantage over his opponent. Stopping in the middle of the serve just to throw the opponent off balance, trying to show the umpire a different ball mark from the actual one to get the call in their favor, calling a medical time-out just to stop opponent's momentum, that would be gamesmanship. Watch some soccer (diving to get a penalty call), waterpolo (literally trying to drown your opponent), basketball, football (talk about excessive celebration after EVERY single play).

Celebrating too much? Looking tired too much? Taking extra time between points? You guys have to be joking. This was a 6 hour Grand Slam final, for Pete's sake.

Amen.