It's official. Rafole greatest rivalry of all time. Meeting #40 in Miami. [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

It's official. Rafole greatest rivalry of all time. Meeting #40 in Miami.

Jimnik
01-27-2012, 05:22 PM
Top historic H2Hs ranked in order of total meetings (active in bold):


1. Nadal 22-17 Djokovic 39
2. Lendl 21-15 McEnroe 36
3. Lendl 22-13 Connors 35
3. Becker 25-10 Edberg 35
5. McEnroe 20-14 Connors 34
5. Sampras 20-14 Agassi 34
7. Nadal 23-10 Federer 33
7. Federer 17-16 Djokovic 33
9. Edberg 14-13 Lendl 27
9. Federer 18-9 Hewitt 27
11. Nadal 21-5 Ferrer 26
12. Courier 12-12 Chang 24
12. Nastase 13-11 Connors 24
12. Federer 21-3 Roddick 24
15. Borg 15-8 Connors 23
16. Lendl 15-7 Wilander 22
16. Agassi 15-7 Chang 22
16. Borg 17-5 Vilas 22
16. Sampras 18-4 Martin 22
20. Lendl 11-10 Becker 21
20. Murray 11-10 Federer 21
20. Edberg 12-9 Chang 21
20. Connors 15-6 Gerulaitis 21
20. Connors 17-4 Tanner 21
20. Federer 19-2 Davydenko 21
26. Wilander 11-9 Edberg 20
26. Sampras 12-8 Chang 20
26. Laver 13-7 Rosewall 20
26. Federer 15-5 Del Potro 20
26. Sampras 16-4 Courier 20
26. Nadal 17-3 Berdych 20
26. Djokovic 12-8 Murray 20


Closing in:
Nadal 13-5 Murray 18
Djokovic 15-3 Wawrinka 18
Federer 12-6 Berdych 18
Federer 16-1 Soderling 17
Djokovic 14-2 Berdych 16
Djokovic 11-5 Ferrer 16
Djokovic 11-5 Tsonga 16
Federer 13-3 Haas 16
Federer 15-0 Youzhny 15
Ferrer 15-0 Almagro 15
Murray 8-6 Wawrinka 14
Federer 9-5 Tsonga 14
Djokovic 11-3 Del Potro 14
Nadal 13-1 Verdasco 14
Federer 14-0 Nieminen 14
Federer 14-0 Ferrer 14


Let me know any I missed > 20.

homogenius
01-27-2012, 05:46 PM
Incredible how much Novak closed the gap in his H2H against both Rafa and Roger in only one year.It took him time to mature (2 years and some painful losses against both of them)but what a way to reverse things.
I like the fact that someone finally stepped it up, took it from Nadal and found a way to own him but in the same time it'd be more interesting if Rafa manages to win a big match once in a while.Otherwise, it'll end up like the Fedal's rivalry : had the potential to become the biggest one ever but flopped.

Sidenote : 13. Federer 21-2 Roddick 23
I can't :sobbing:

jcempire
01-27-2012, 06:33 PM
very interest post

cilomania
01-27-2012, 07:00 PM
i think he will do that.this is his big year.nadal will fall in paris:devil:

finishingmove
01-27-2012, 07:02 PM
And they might even reach 36 this year

ballbasher101
01-27-2012, 07:09 PM
I wonder how Federer feels watching the Djoker destroy Nadal time and time again? On Sunday Nadal will probably get his revenge though.

MIMIC
01-27-2012, 07:18 PM
Wow. Roddick's the only one on that list that failed to win more than twice.

Looner
01-27-2012, 07:55 PM
With the ATP promoting the usual faces through surface homogenisation and slower courts, we are primed to start seeing rivalvies as big (in terms of numbers) as the ones during the times of Rod Laver.

River
01-27-2012, 07:57 PM
Ouch for Roddick :P

And even though Nadal leads the matchup vs Nole, I think with the way the 2011 season went, that matchup has now certainly become even.

Knightmace
01-27-2012, 10:13 PM
Federer/Nalbandian?

mylessa
01-27-2012, 10:43 PM
One more and you'll have it :) They've played 19 times. 11-8 in Roger's favour.

Okram04
01-27-2012, 10:54 PM
Wow... Connors losing to practically anyone? That is very interesting stat...

Jimnik
03-28-2012, 09:50 PM
The great Federer-Roddick "rivalry" is heading for the top 10. :lol:

Poor Andy. Imagine what a legend he'd be if Fed had chosen football over tennis.

Alex999
03-28-2012, 10:36 PM
the fact is that Rog was def. a baby Nole ... Rog in his prime and again Nole who was just a young kitten. Nadal also developed early and he was able to beat young Novak. Now, catch me now if you can... I think that Djokovic will close the gap with both Rog and Rafa at the end of his career ....

Jimnik
04-23-2012, 04:00 AM
At this rate Nadal-Djokovic will be #1 rivalry of all time by the end of the year. They might catch Sampras-Agassi by the end of the clay season.

Chase Visa
04-23-2012, 04:17 AM
Will Nadal/Djoker reach the 50 matches mark?

TigerTim
04-23-2012, 09:55 AM
Wow... Connors losing to practically anyone? That is very interesting stat...

because he played for so long I guess.

Topspindoctor
04-23-2012, 10:37 AM
Olderer - Rodmug being on the list is a disgrace. As Martina Hingis used to say: "What rivalry, I win all the matches".

TennisOnWood
04-23-2012, 10:45 AM
At this rate Nadal-Djokovic will be #1 rivalry of all time by the end of the year. They might catch Sampras-Agassi by the end of the clay season.

Go somewhere and check how many times Laver played against Rosewall (for example).. then you will use Open era instead of all time

And they will never be #1 rivalry because this poor era, they can play 60 matches if they continue like this

Dougie
04-23-2012, 03:14 PM
At this rate Nadal-Djokovic will be #1 rivalry of all time by the end of the year. They might catch Sampras-Agassi by the end of the clay season.

I play with my brother 2-3 times/month, considering we´ve played for 20 years, that´s a lot of matches, but it hardly qualifies as a rivalry.

It doesn´t matter how many matches Nadal and Djokovic play, a rivalry is something else. A good rivalry requires an entertaining match-up, personalities, real competition and fire instead of exchanging polite and meaningless comments. McEnroe-Borg was a rivalry. So was McEnroe and Connors, or Edberg-Becker, Sampras-Agassi. Djokovic and Nadal are not even close.

It´s not all their fault though, surface homogenization practically prevents any interesting match-ups that might have a chance to develop into a proper rivalry.

tennisphilia
04-23-2012, 04:37 PM
In two-years time, maybe earlier, DJOKOVIC - NADAL would be #1. Unless Murray finds a way to break into the triumverate.

Jimnik
04-23-2012, 05:27 PM
I play with my brother 2-3 times/month, considering we´ve played for 20 years, that´s a lot of matches, but it hardly qualifies as a rivalry.

Wrong. You should check the definition of "rivalry".


It doesn´t matter how many matches Nadal and Djokovic play,.. .
Actually it does. It's a direct result of both players consistently reaching the latter stages of major tournaments. If this was 30 random 1st round meetings or two countrymen competing in small local tournaments then maybe you'd have a point. But we're talking about two multi-slam legends meeting in the latter stages of Slams and Masters.


A good rivalry requires an entertaining match-up, personalities, real competition and fire instead of exchanging polite and meaningless comments. McEnroe-Borg was a rivalry. So was McEnroe and Connors, or Edberg-Becker, Sampras-Agassi. Djokovic and Nadal are not even close.
Your opinion. Purely subjective and no facts to back it up.

Jimnik
05-22-2012, 02:46 PM
Federer-Djokovic moves into the top 10.

Nadal-Djokovic edging ever closer to #1.

Jimnik
06-05-2012, 07:33 PM
Federer-Djokovic will pull level with Federer-Hewitt on Friday.

Either Nadal-Murray or Nadal-Ferrer will join the list. Both match-ups currently on 19 meetings. Assuming, of course, Rafa somehow gets past the Mugro Monster.

JediFed
06-05-2012, 08:22 PM
Lendl/Connors/McEnroe was the great triumvirate, with Federer/Nadal/Djokovic catching up.

Jimnik
06-05-2012, 08:23 PM
Lendl/Connors/McEnroe only had 23 slams between them. Federer/Nadal/Djokovic on 31 slams already.

sicko
06-05-2012, 08:27 PM
nole to make it 5-5 with the goat at slams come friday.:rocker2:

Jimnik
06-09-2012, 04:51 AM
Federer-Djokovic pulls level with Federer-Hewitt.

Nadal-Djokovic continues rampaging towards #1. 33rd meeting on Sunday, just one behind Sampras-Agassi and loads more meetings to come.

Nadal-Ferrer becomes the newest addition with 20 meetings.

Clay Death
06-09-2012, 04:58 AM
lendl had just about everybody`s number but he did lose 11 times in the finals of slams.

very interesting thread.

Garson007
06-09-2012, 08:12 AM
lendl had just about everybody`s number but he did lose 11 times in the finals of slams.
One has to ask how good his mental fitness was.

Wow... Connors losing to practically anyone? That is very interesting stat...
Indeed, it is.

cveks
06-09-2012, 08:41 AM
Wow. Roddick's the only one on that list that failed to win more than twice.

Thats why Federer has 16 GS . Beceause in his best years he had mugs like Rodick for opponents.

One Nole's GS worth three times more than one Federer's won against mugs like Rodick because Nole won his in 5 times stronger era.

TennisOnWood
06-09-2012, 09:05 AM
Lets make it 5 times more

Chirag
06-09-2012, 10:52 AM
Thats why Federer has 16 GS . Beceause in his best years he had mugs like Rodick for opponents.

One Nole's GS worth three times more than one Federer's won against mugs like Rodick because Nole won his in 5 times stronger era.

:stupid: What a dumb post .I am sorry but both eras are the same difficulty wise :rolleyes: Roddick was a pretty good player in 2004 .He had a great forehand ,his biggest problem that changed his career really was firing Gilbert at the end of 2004 .That really brought an end to his career :stupid:

Jimnik
06-09-2012, 06:53 PM
lendl had just about everybody`s number but he did lose 11 times in the finals of slams.
Lendl was the only 6+ slam winner with a losing record in finals (8-11).

abraxas21
06-09-2012, 07:13 PM
OP needs to wake up and face what they call reality

Jimnik
06-09-2012, 07:16 PM
:confused:

Last I checked the OP was very real.

abraxas21
06-09-2012, 07:18 PM
:hug:

Jimnik
06-09-2012, 07:22 PM
:hug:

Bless

cveks
06-10-2012, 05:06 PM
:stupid: What a dumb post .I am sorry but both eras are the same difficulty wise :rolleyes: Roddick was a pretty good player in 2004 .He had a great forehand ,his biggest problem that changed his career really was firing Gilbert at the end of 2004 .That really brought an end to his career :stupid:

roddick was always one dimensional serving bot . Something like Isner today. If he serves 80% 1st serve , he can win against anyone , and if he not , than anyone from first 50 can beat him.

What I am trying to say he was no match for Federer ever. 21-2 score for Federer proves that.

Jimnik
06-11-2012, 02:16 AM
We should be honored witnessing statistically the greatest tennis rivalry in history. ;)

Subjectively of course it will always be up for debate.

juan27
06-11-2012, 02:37 AM
Thats why Federer has 16 GS . Beceause in his best years he had mugs like Rodick for opponents.

One Nole's GS worth three times more than one Federer's won against mugs like Rodick because Nole won his in 5 times stronger era.

stronger era???? jajajaja

if tipsarevic or almagro in top-10 is strong era........

that roddick mug is not the same roddick that has positive h2h against nole???

the slams are not only the finals , the other matches counts too.

5 times stronger era jajaja , because this era so stronger that only one player outside the top 3 had an slam ( del potro ) , only nadal is not an stronger era , the rest of the field is horrible , nole only has nadal and a old federer.

juan27
06-11-2012, 02:44 AM
the fact is that Rog was def. a baby Nole ... Rog in his prime and again Nole who was just a young kitten. Nadal also developed early and he was able to beat young Novak. Now, catch me now if you can... I think that Djokovic will close the gap with both Rog and Rafa at the end of his career ....

well , the great part of fed and djoko matches were with both out of are peaks

Jimnik
07-05-2012, 09:15 AM
Federer-Djokovic will move level with Edberg-Lendl on Friday.

Jimnik
07-07-2012, 11:38 PM
Murray 8-7 Federer 15

16th meeting on Sunday. Probably won't make the list until next year. Problem is the #3 and #4 seeds rarely meet.

sexybeast
07-08-2012, 01:22 AM
Has anyone else than Federer-Djokovic ever played 11 times against each other in slams?

This might be the great rivalry of our era, in fact it is the most exciting and unpredictable of the 3 great rivalries we have. Only problem is that they only have 1 final against each other, surely Usopen this year could change that.

Jimnik
01-26-2013, 04:08 PM
Small changes:

1. Federer-Djokovic overtook Nadal-Federer last year.

2. Murray-Federer finally enters the list. (Note there are now 5 Federer rivalries on the list which equals Lendl and Connors).

3. Federer-Roddick no longer active.

TBkeeper
01-26-2013, 04:15 PM
Federer - Davydenko 18-2 ;)

Jimnik
01-26-2013, 04:21 PM
You're right. Wow. :eek: Never expected that one to reach 20.

Means Federer now appears 6 times on the list - more than any other player in the open era - including the two most one-sided rivalries (21-3 and 18-2).

garad
01-26-2013, 07:09 PM
Interesting thread. Connors has a lot of negative h2h because of his longevity, by the end of his career he was still making it to top players regularly who were younger or closer to their primes I suppose.
Btw 2 more interesting Federer rivalries can enter the list within 1 or 2 years: Federer 13-4 Del Potro and Federer 11-5 Berdych. Thats apart from Nalbandian one which needs just one match and was mentioned in this thread. The Tsonga one is at 9-3 currently so a way to go...

Saberq
01-26-2013, 07:16 PM
so Fed played most matches against Djokovic?

garad
01-26-2013, 07:18 PM
so Fed played most matches against Djokovic?

yes, they have played quite regularly every year since 2007

Certinfy
01-26-2013, 07:37 PM
Federer vs Berdych only 4 matches away from making this list. Really hope they do, all their matches (even the ones Tomas lost, so I'm not being biased) have been pretty spectacular 2009 onwards.

Ikaron
07-23-2013, 04:44 PM
I think Murray vs Djokovic entered this list.

TBkeeper
07-23-2013, 05:45 PM
Fed - Denko
rising to 19-2 ;) fix it

thrust
07-24-2013, 12:27 AM
Interesting thread. Connors has a lot of negative h2h because of his longevity, by the end of his career he was still making it to top players regularly who were younger or closer to their primes I suppose.
Btw 2 more interesting Federer rivalries can enter the list within 1 or 2 years: Federer 13-4 Del Potro and Federer 11-5 Berdych. Thats apart from Nalbandian one which needs just one match and was mentioned in this thread. The Tsonga one is at 9-3 currently so a way to go...

True about Connors. Now, Nadal leads Roger, 20-10. Rafa always had the edge over Roger, now however, Roger has practically no chance to beat Rafa unless Nadal is either injured or has a very off day.

Sham Kay
07-24-2013, 12:59 AM
Updated - Lemme know if I missed anything.

Only a matter of time before Rafole becomes the biggest rivalry of all time

Jimnik
08-12-2013, 10:36 PM
Rafole already joint top. On their way to 40+ meetings.

GSMnadal
08-12-2013, 10:38 PM
Interesting to see even the amount of wins/losses are the same as Lendl/McEnroe

PileDrive
08-12-2013, 10:42 PM
Rafole already joint top. On their way to 40+ meetings.

Imo.Could even to the ++50 encounters..just 26 and 27 of age respectively :eek: they met at every possible big events in the world (Slams, M1000, WTF, Olympics, Davis cup) bar Shanghai M1000 (they played the WTF once there)..

Gabeh99
08-12-2013, 11:24 PM
Surprised that McEnroe-Borg didn't make the list. 7-7

Borg retired early at 27 then came back a few years later.

Although the total is low, the rivalry was bitter, close and that made it especially exciting. More than the rivalries today where they're all lovey / dovey and highly respectful of one another.

Connors, McEnroe and Lendl hated each other and didn't hide it. A great era.

Becuase of equipment and training the game is faster today with more powerful serves, shots and amazing accuracy, the greater variety in styles and personalities still make that time a more exciting one for the tennis fan.

thrust
08-13-2013, 01:27 AM
Lendl lost several slam finals when he was younger and the less experienced player against prime Connors, Borg and McEnroe.

Gabeh99
08-13-2013, 01:44 AM
I just checked and was surprised to find that Lendl is only one year younger than McEnroe and four years younger than Borg. It took him longer to reach his peak and learn to deal with his elders and betters, Connors, Mc and Borg.

But then he overtook them.

Litotes
08-13-2013, 04:40 AM
I just checked and was surprised to find that Lendl is only one year younger than McEnroe and four years younger than Borg. It took him longer to reach his peak and learn to deal with his elders and betters, Connors, Mc and Borg.

But then he overtook them.

He didn't really overtake Borg, no significant wins against him. He just benefited from Borg retiring.

LeChuck
08-13-2013, 05:14 AM
The 1985 US Open final was clearly the huge turning point of the Lendl-McEnroe rivalry (and far more important than the 1984 RG final).

Aside from his Wimbledon defeat to Curren where he was overpowered, McEnroe had been in excellent form for most of 1985 up to the US Open final, and had completely outclassed Lendl twice in the summer hard court events at Stratton Mountain and Montreal. He was the strong favourite to win the US Open final, but Lendl showed a positive mindset after falling behind in the opening set and won in straights.

Lendl also took the world no. 1 ranking from McEnroe in the process, and went on to dominate in 1986 and 1987. McEnroe never reached world no. 1 or another slam final again. His decline reached boiling point during his defeat to Gilbert at the Masters in January 1986, which drove him to his 6 month sabbatical; "When I start losing to players like him I've got to reconsider what I'm doing even playing this game"

Trollin Stone
08-13-2013, 09:58 AM
Chang-Edberg and Connors-Gerulaitis are missing in the OP.

Jimnik
08-13-2013, 06:06 PM
Excellent, thanks. Those are good ones.

Jimnik
08-13-2013, 06:22 PM
Connors now equals Federer with 6 appearances on the list. Lendl on 5, Sampras 4, Chang 4 and Edberg 4.

Federer very close to adding a further 3 rivalries to the list.

Jimnik
08-17-2013, 02:14 AM
Nadal-Federer edging ever closer to Sampras-Agassi.

I predict they'll be level with 34 meetings when it's all over.

Jimnik
09-10-2013, 12:49 AM
R. Nadal vs N. Djokovic


2013 US Open NY, U.S.A. Hard F Nadal, Rafael 6-2, 3-6, 6-4, 6-1
2013 ATP World Tour Masters 1000 Canada Montreal, Canada Hard S Nadal, Rafael 6-4, 3-6, 7-6(2)
2013 Roland Garros France Clay S Nadal, Rafael 6-4, 3-6, 6-1, 6-7(3), 9-7
2013 ATP World Tour Masters 1000 Monte Carlo Monaco Clay F Djokovic, Novak 6-2, 7-6(1)
2012 Roland Garros France Clay F Nadal, Rafael 6-4, 6-3, 2-6, 7-5
2012 ATP World Tour Masters 1000 Rome Italy Clay F Nadal, Rafael 7-5, 6-3
2012 ATP World Tour Masters 1000 Monte Carlo Monaco Clay F Nadal, Rafael 6-3, 6-1
2012 Australian Open Australia Hard F Djokovic, Novak 5-7, 6-4, 6-2, 6-7(5), 7-5
2011 US Open NY, U.S.A. Hard F Djokovic, Novak 6-2, 6-4, 6-7(3), 6-1
2011 Wimbledon Great Britain Grass F Djokovic, Novak 6-4, 6-1, 1-6, 6-3
2011 ATP World Tour Masters 1000 Rome Italy Clay F Djokovic, Novak 6-4, 6-4
2011 ATP World Tour Masters 1000 Madrid Spain Clay F Djokovic, Novak 7-5, 6-4
2011 ATP World Tour Masters 1000 Miami FL, U.S.A. Hard F Djokovic, Novak 4-6, 6-3, 7-6(4)
2011 ATP World Tour Masters 1000 Indian Wells CA, U.S.A. Hard F Djokovic, Novak 4-6, 6-3, 6-2
2010 Barclays ATP World Tour Finals London, England Hard RR Nadal, Rafael 7-5, 6-2
2010 US Open NY, U.S.A. Hard F Nadal, Rafael 6-4, 5-7, 6-4, 6-2
2009 Barclays ATP World Tour Finals London, England Hard RR Djokovic, Novak 7-6(5), 6-3
2009 ATP World Tour Masters 1000 Paris France Hard S Djokovic, Novak 6-2, 6-3
2009 ATP World Tour Masters 1000 Cincinnati OH, U.S.A. Hard S Djokovic, Novak 6-1, 6-4
2009 ATP World Tour Masters 1000 Madrid Spain Clay S Nadal, Rafael 3-6, 7-6(5), 7-6(9)
2009 ATP World Tour Masters 1000 Rome Italy Clay F Nadal, Rafael 7-6(2), 6-2
2009 ATP World Tour Masters 1000 Monte Carlo Monaco Clay F Nadal, Rafael 6-3, 2-6, 6-1
2009 ESP vs. SRB WG 1st RD Spain Clay RR Nadal, Rafael 6-4, 6-4, 6-1
2008 Beijing Olympics China Hard S Nadal, Rafael 6-4, 1-6, 6-4
2008 ATP Masters Series Cincinnati OH, U.S.A. Hard S Djokovic, Novak 6-1, 7-5
2008 London / Queen's Club Great Britain Grass F Nadal, Rafael 7-6(6), 7-5
2008 Roland Garros France Clay S Nadal, Rafael 6-4, 6-2, 7-6(3)
2008 ATP Masters Series Hamburg Germany Clay S Nadal, Rafael 7-5, 2-6, 6-2
2008 ATP Masters Series Indian Wells CA, U.S.A. Hard S Djokovic, Novak 6-3, 6-2
2007 Tennis Masters Cup China Hard RR Nadal, Rafael 6-4, 6-4
2007 ATP Masters Series Canada Montreal, Canada Hard S Djokovic, Novak 7-5, 6-3
2007 Wimbledon Great Britain Grass S Nadal, Rafael 3-6, 6-1, 4-1 RET
2007 Roland Garros France Clay S Nadal, Rafael 7-5, 6-4, 6-2
2007 ATP Masters Series Rome Italy Clay Q Nadal, Rafael 6-2, 6-3
2007 ATP Masters Series Miami FL, U.S.A. Hard Q Djokovic, Novak 6-3, 6-4
2007 ATP Masters Series Indian Wells CA, U.S.A. Hard F Nadal, Rafael 6-2, 7-5
2006 Roland Garros France Clay Q Nadal, Rafael 6-4, 6-4 RET


Nadal leads 22-15

FlameOn
09-10-2013, 12:51 AM
Better than Fedal but still sucks. Quality of tennis is never good and they've met too often. Do people seriously look forward for their matches :help:?

Mountaindewslave
09-10-2013, 12:54 AM
Nadal-Djokovic I would say is still not the greatest rivalry as far as quality of all time but definitely is moving up just due to the sheer number of matches

Mountaindewslave
09-10-2013, 12:57 AM
Better than Fedal but still sucks. Quality of tennis is never good and they've met too often. Do people seriously look forward for their matches :help:?

ehhh the quality can be hit and miss but definitely the drama in their matches is unparalleled. rarely do you have a matchup where you know both players are capable of high highs and low lows and are hard to read as far as when those will appear. I agree its not the best ever though, quantity just does not defeat quality (I would pick Mccenroe-Borg as the most interested rivalry ever)

Chloe le Bopper
09-10-2013, 12:57 AM
Better than Fedal but still sucks. Quality of tennis is never good and they've met too often. Do people seriously look forward for their matches :help:?

Yes. To not look forward to their matches is incorrect.

Jimnik
09-10-2013, 01:08 AM
I'm not a fan of either of them. But I'm a fan of tennis and what they produced today was nothing short of outstanding.

Can't wait for the 54-shot rally to appear on YT. No other rivalry comes close to that level of intensity.

grillinnap
09-10-2013, 01:15 AM
Thing with Rafa is that he's had two rivalries in two different "eras." Second half of the 2000s was against Roger and the first half of the 2010's is against Nole.

Jimnik
09-10-2013, 01:54 AM
Sums up the GROAT. :worship:

RIHsH69XKLE

Laver-Rosewall, Lendl-McEnroe, Sampras-Agassi could only dream of rallies like this.

Mateya
09-10-2013, 04:31 PM
Agree, Nadal-Djokovic matches are just brutal with endless number of tough and exhausing rallies. What a match up.
Simply amazing this rivalry and best thing is that these two will probably meet again for at least 10 times in their carrer. :spit: Few more years to go.

:worship:

Jimnik
10-05-2013, 08:24 PM
Meeting #38 coming up.

These two are just miles ahead of any other rivalry.

nole_no1
10-05-2013, 08:29 PM
They will soon reach 40. It's incredible

Ikaros
10-05-2013, 09:19 PM
Sums up the GROAT. :worship:

RIHsH69XKLE

Laver-Rosewall, Lendl-McEnroe, Sampras-Agassi could only dream of rallies like this.

Yeah, because it is every player's dream to play a rally in which either player is just trying to avoid making a mistake... How many of the shots in that rally would have yielded a forced error? Maybe four or five?

This is the kind of magic they used to dream about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He81C9YjNJk

MuzzahLovah
10-05-2013, 09:24 PM
Just goes to show that quantity does not equate with quality.

nole_no1
10-05-2013, 09:32 PM
Yeah, because it is every player's dream to play a rally in which either player is just trying to avoid making a mistake... How many of the shots in that rally would have yielded a forced error? Maybe four or five?

This is the kind of magic they used to dream about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He81C9YjNJk

How long did you search to find that shot?

Ikaros
10-05-2013, 09:47 PM
How long did you search to find that shot?

not long - it's in my favorites and I'm subscribed to the uploader's channel. You should subscribe too, there's some great stuff on there.

Tag
10-05-2013, 11:26 PM
Greatest?

In the eyes of Fed fawners and slam dreamers, maybe

Jimnik
10-06-2013, 09:00 PM
Probably just one week until meeting #39.

Federer-Nalbandian ends at 19 meetings. Shame fatty couldn't enter the list.

Nadal-Berdych up to 19 meetings. Berdy should appear at least twice on the list before his career is over. Unfortunately as a turkey in both of them.

thrust
10-06-2013, 09:35 PM
Sums up the GROAT. :worship:

RIHsH69XKLE

Laver-Rosewall, Lendl-McEnroe, Sampras-Agassi could only dream of rallies like this.

Being that today's rackets are nearly twice as large and lighter than the wood rackets Laver and Rosewall used, they also had some great rallies too, with much more net play as well. Even the Lendl-McEnroe and Sampras-Agassi rackets and strings were inferior to today's equipment. This is not to take anything away from Noaak-Rafa, who are incredible athletes and tennis players.

guga2120
10-06-2013, 09:45 PM
Meeting #38 coming up.

These two are just miles ahead of any other rivalry.

Yes, and in terms of quality. Granted when you play this many times not every match will be like that match in Australia, but the quality is almost always high. Also unlike other so called rivalries as of late, it is a very even match up and unpredictable who will win on each surface.

Jimnik
11-05-2013, 11:02 PM
Federer-Djokovic is now equal #7 with Nadal-Federer on 31 meetings.

Nadal-Ferrer moves into the top 10, level with Federer-Hewitt on 26 meetings.

Federer-DelPotro will make the list on Friday with their 3rd meeting in 3 weeks. Also Nadal-Berdych on Friday.

Kyle_Johansen
11-05-2013, 11:06 PM
I wish Fed and Nalby played more. Their tennis was like Fed/Nole but with more variety.

emotion
11-05-2013, 11:30 PM
Exactly, way too defensive to be a very fun rivalry. Djokovic was aggressive when he was younger, but the slowness of the surfaces made him change his game. We need a defense-offense or offense-offense rivalry. Defense-defense are the worst rivalries.

GSMnadal
11-05-2013, 11:37 PM
Exactly, way too defensive to be a very fun rivalry. Djokovic was aggressive when he was younger, but the slowness of the surfaces made him change his game. We need a defense-offense or offense-offense rivalry. Defense-defense are the worst rivalries.

Offense vs. Offense are unreal, ballbashing errorfests and hardly watchable. Janowicz vs. Gulbis was painful.

emotion
11-05-2013, 11:48 PM
Offense vs. Offense are unreal, ballbashing errorfests and hardly watchable. Janowicz vs. Gulbis was painful.

Well, controlled offense. Sampras-Agassi, not Golubev-Korolev

Htom Sirveaux
11-05-2013, 11:56 PM
Exactly, way too defensive to be a very fun rivalry. Djokovic was aggressive when he was younger, but the slowness of the surfaces made him change his game. We need a defense-offense or offense-offense rivalry. Defense-defense are the worst rivalries.

You may well consider Djokovic-Nadal too defensive for your tastes, but I would never classify this as a defense-defense rivalry. They bash the shit out of the ball against one another while still playing percentages and having the defensive abilities/skills to get to what would be winners against most other players. That's not pure offense, but it's also not just 'defense'. Djokovic-Murray is the only high level matchup that features a lot of relentless caginess with pure percentage tennis and defense, but even that one involves enough skill and accurate (if not powerful/low-percentage) shotmaking to make it somewhat interesting when they come out of their shells.

And for me offense-offense is a bad matchup, though not as bad as an actual defense-defense matchup (ie, two pushers). I'm not just talking about ballbashers either; two guys hitting past one another for a few hours doesn't really do much for me even if there's a lot of skill/variety involved. Each player might be individually impressive, but I don't find the matches they produce terribly entertaining. :shrug:

Shinoj
11-06-2013, 04:43 AM
Offense-offense makes one of the Best Tennis. Who can ever forget Sampras-Agassi 2001 US Open,Safin-Federer 2005 AO, Djokovic-Federer FO 2011 and US Open 2011.

While you will be hard pressed to remember finals like US Open 2013 few years from now.

TBkeeper
11-06-2013, 12:07 PM
Sums up the GROAT. :worship:

RIHsH69XKLE

Laver-Rosewall, Lendl-McEnroe, Sampras-Agassi could only dream of rallies like this.

Mug rally , the court playing like a wet sand , nothing new , no wonder i haven't watched a GS final since 2013 AUSIE OPEN

Jimnik
11-08-2013, 09:36 PM
Nadal-Berdych enters the list and is the 2nd most one-sided "rivalry" after Federer-Roddick.

Litotes
11-08-2013, 09:38 PM
Nadal-Berdych enters the list and is the 2nd most one-sided "rivalry" after Federer-Roddick.

You forgot Federer - Davydenko....that's the single most one-sided on the list for now.

Jimnik
11-08-2013, 09:40 PM
You forgot Federer - Davydenko....that's the single most one-sided on the list for now.
True, forgot about that one.

The only thing that could beat that is if Ferrer-Almagro somehow makes the list. Unlikely considering Ferrer's age.

Litotes
11-08-2013, 10:00 PM
True, forgot about that one.

The only thing that could beat that is if Ferrer-Almagro somehow makes the list. Unlikely considering Ferrer's age.

I actually think you can remove that one from the OP. Or if you like quantity, there are several other 14- or 15-match ones you could add. Like Federer - Youzhny, Nadal - Verdasco and Federer - Ferrer

Jimnik
11-09-2013, 09:00 PM
I actually think you can remove that one from the OP. Or if you like quantity, there are several other 14- or 15-match ones you could add. Like Federer - Youzhny, Nadal - Verdasco and Federer - Ferrer
Thanks, some good ones there. Shame Federer and Ferrer won't stick around long enough to bring them up.

Federer-Del Potro enters at 15-5.

Jimnik
11-10-2013, 08:43 PM
Nadal-Federer now just two behind Sampras-Agassi.

The GROAT will meet again tomorrow.

Jimnik
03-29-2014, 05:33 PM
Djokovic-Murray finally enters the list at 12-8.

Meanwhile the GROAT keeps going and going.

Rychu
03-29-2014, 05:39 PM
Can Federer-Djokovic and Djokovic-Nadal end up as the two greatest rivalries of all-time?

TigerTim
03-29-2014, 05:41 PM
Can Federer-Djokovic and Djokovic-Nadal end up as the two greatest rivalries of all-time?

:facepalm:

please, numbers to not mean "greatest"

terribly misleading thread title in the first case

Nole Rules
03-29-2014, 05:42 PM
Can Federer-Djokovic and Djokovic-Nadal end up as the two greatest rivalries of all-time?

Yes, they can but I don't think they will end up as that.

Nole Rules
03-29-2014, 05:45 PM
Nadal/Djokovic is the best rivalray overall without a doubt but in terms of shotmaking/pure tennis skills, nothing beats Federer/Nalbandian.

pepita1964
03-29-2014, 11:21 PM
They called Wimbeldon 08 the greatest match but Djokovic /Federer have really classic matches on hard court,clay and on grass. Djokovic/Nadal matches are .... well good but something is missing there .It is more drama,who would hit the ball hard,harder. Every point is played the same way. Even Murray/Federer matches are better in last three years than Nadal/Federer matches.

NSMv1924
03-29-2014, 11:39 PM
Novak - Fed and it's not even close

BritanniaC
03-30-2014, 12:05 AM
They called Wimbeldon 08 the greatest match

Rome 2006, Wimbledon 2007, Australian Open 2009 had better quality. But if we look at the whole "package" (drama drama dram etc), I can agree with people calling 08 the greatest.

MTwEeZi
03-30-2014, 12:08 AM
Rome 2006, Wimbledon 2007, Australian Open 2009 had better quality. But if we look at the whole "package" (drama drama dram etc), I can agree with people calling 08 the greatest.

W 07 is overrated. The first 3 sets were very good but the Fed capitulated in the 4th, and the in 5th Nadal choked.

hadouken!
03-30-2014, 12:13 AM
Well at least 22-17 is closer than 23-10 :haha:

BritanniaC
03-30-2014, 12:18 AM
W 07 is overrated. The first 3 sets were very good but the Fed capitulated in the 4th, and the in 5th Nadal choked.

I think it is underrated. The quality of tennis was better than 08, but it lacked the drama.

GSMnadal
03-30-2014, 12:28 AM
Rome 2006, Wimbledon 2007, Australian Open 2009 had better quality. But if we look at the whole "package" (drama drama dram etc), I can agree with people calling 08 the greatest.

Greatest is not just quality of the tennis. Drama, occasion, story, tension, history etc. are all factors in finding the 'greatest' match. Wimbledon 08 by far outscores any other match. And let's not act like the tennis wasn't some of the best ever either, that fourth set tiebreak, just special. The whole match was magical.

doubletrollt
03-30-2014, 12:51 AM
:facepalm:

please, numbers to not mean "greatest"

terribly misleading thread title in the first case

I ran quickly through their ATP H2H pages, so if somebody spots a mistake...

numbers stands for GS f-sf; M1000 f-sf; WTF f

Nadal-Federer 8-3; 10-3; 1
Federer-Djokovic 1-9; 4-8; 1
Nadal-Djokovic 6-4; 11-8; 1

Although the sum of their GS finals and semis is approx. the same, it hits you right between the eyes that Federer and Djokovic played just that one final 2007. and then 9 semis afterwards, mostly because they were always drawn in the same half at the hard court slams.

So, for Rafole rivalry to be greater than Fedal's, in terms of importance of its matches, they need two GS finals or one GS final and one GS semis more, + Fedal's future encounters.

pepita1964
03-30-2014, 02:13 AM
I ran quickly through their ATP H2H pages, so if somebody spots a mistake...

numbers stands for GS f-sf; M1000 f-sf; WTF f

Nadal-Federer 8-3; 10-3; 1
Federer-Djokovic 1-9; 4-8; 1
Nadal-Djokovic 6-4; 11-8; 1

Although the sum of their GS finals and semis is approx. the same, it hits you right between the eyes that Federer and Djokovic played just that one final 2007. and then 9 semis afterwards, mostly because they were always drawn in the same half at the hard court slams.

So, for Rafole rivalry to be greater than Fedal's in terms of importance of its matches they need a couple of GS finals more.

Because some people wanted Rafa to get to F of GS on hard court that is why Novak and Federer were always on the same half for years. Since 2007 US Open they were always in the same half. There was not a good enough player let say as Murray to challenge Rafa on other half of draw. SF is even better match very often than F as it was last year at FO 13,

Juz78
03-30-2014, 03:27 AM
This "greatest" rivalry isn't good for the game... not extended for this long. I'm shocked they hold all the Masters and half the Slams. Tennis only flourishes if there is depth. This is sadly lacking at the moment and doesn't look like changing any time soon. I hope I'm wrong.

Thirty All
03-30-2014, 03:34 AM
I guess moonballing and pushing is the new gold standard

Jolyon
03-30-2014, 04:36 AM
Because some people wanted Rafa to get to F of GS on hard court that is why Novak and Federer were always on the same half for years. Since 2007 US Open they were always in the same half. There was not a good enough player let say as Murray to challenge Rafa on other half of draw. SF is even better match very often than F as it was last year at FO 13,

Who are those "some people"? No one in the ATP wanted, and they have no control over the draw. Seed 1 and Seed 2 are placed on opposite sides of the draw and the rest of the draw is (players are picked) random. If Nole and Roger ends up on one side of the draw frequently, it does not mean the draw is rigged by "some people".

Thirty All
03-30-2014, 05:03 AM
Who are those "some people"? No one in the ATP wanted, and they have no control over the draw. Seed 1 and Seed 2 are placed on opposite sides of the draw and the rest of the draw is (players are picked) random. If Nole and Roger ends up on one side of the draw frequently, it does not mean the draw is rigged by "some people".

The draws are rigged by Tio Toni. How do you not know, given that you live in Spain? Doesn't his influence also extend to government and politics? :devil:

A_Skywalker
03-30-2014, 06:26 AM
Its not official, maybe one of them withdraws :D

MDot
03-30-2014, 07:57 AM
the funniest thing that Djoko and Nadal have the closest rivalry. I mean Nadal won 5 times more and in the top 7 only the djokovic federer rivalry catch this up. Incredible...just incredible.

zjtennis
03-30-2014, 01:11 PM
Good rivalry -- tight H2H for both.

calvinhobbes
03-30-2014, 01:50 PM
Who are those "some people"? No one in the ATP wanted, and they have no control over the draw. Seed 1 and Seed 2 are placed on opposite sides of the draw and the rest of the draw is (players are picked) random. If Nole and Roger ends up on one side of the draw frequently, it does not mean the draw is rigged by "some people".

Not frequently but almost ever. If those were random draws, frequency should be around 50%. It was about 95%.
Please, check out. :):):)

Shepherd
03-30-2014, 01:57 PM
Because some people wanted Rafa to get to F of GS on hard court that is why Novak and Federer were always on the same half for years. Since 2007 US Open they were always in the same half. There was not a good enough player let say as Murray to challenge Rafa on other half of draw. SF is even better match very often than F as it was last year at FO 13,

This theory doesn't make sense. Prior to 2011 Nadal was 16:7 against Djokovic and Djokovic had never defeated Nadal in the final of any event. He also had zero wins on clay and zero wins in grand slams so it doesn't make sense Nadal would have to avoid him. In 2011 they were soon ranked #1 and #2 and couldn't meet before the finals.

Federer on the other hand had major problems with Murray from the beginning and Murray had won six of their first eight matches. If you want to play a conspiracy theory game then my response would be that ''some people'' wanted a Federer-Nadal final and decided to give Federer an opponent he had less trouble with (read: Djokovic). Afterall, Federer was a bigger cash cow than Nadal so it would make more sense for ''some people'' to help him rather than Rafa.

I don't believe any of this shit but everything can be twisted to support an agenda. Think.

doubletrollt
03-30-2014, 02:16 PM
This theory doesn't make sense. Prior to 2011 Nadal was 16:7 against Djokovic and Djokovic had never defeated Nadal in the final of any event. He also had zero wins on clay and zero wins in grand slams so it doesn't make sense Nadal would have to avoid him. In 2011 they were soon ranked #1 and #2 and couldn't meet before the finals.

Federer on the other hand had major problems with Murray from the beginning and Murray had won six of their first eight matches. If you want to play a conspiracy theory game then my response would be that ''some people'' wanted a Federer-Nadal final and decided to give Federer an opponent he had less trouble with (read: Djokovic). Afterall, Federer was a bigger cash cow than Nadal so it would make more sense for ''some people'' to help him rather than Rafa.

I don't believe any of this shit but everything can be twisted to support an agenda. Think.

We are talking about HC slams here and Murray has finally won his slam match against Olderer just last year, in five sets (winning just one set in three previous meetings) and was also not always the 4th seeded player behind the 3rd Djokovic.

Who would Rafa rather escape in HC slam SF after Fed-Djok USO final 2007. it's no brainer, not only would he get a huge point advantage for the no1 year end spot by one of Djokovic or Federer not making into the finals 100% but would have probably played tired Federer or Djokovic in the finals and it was important at that time when Rafa was still not so good in HC slams making his first (KIA sponsored) down-under final in 2009. and USO 2010 with HC slam courts slowed down even further.