USPTA has FORBIDDEN coaches from teaching the 1 handed backhand [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

USPTA has FORBIDDEN coaches from teaching the 1 handed backhand

Johnny Groove
01-27-2012, 04:44 PM
So I was teaching my junior program the other day, with kids ranging from age 6-13, developmental years, of course. And I was noticing this one little Asian girl (named Serena, ironically), struggling to master the 2 handed backhand. So I stopped for a second and showed her how to hit a one handed backhand. Almost immediately, she was starting to make contact in the middle of the strings and hit a few nice shots.

Then, the head pro of the clinic came over and said to me: "No! No! Everybody uses 2 hands on the backhand!"

Me: "But I think she can do better with a one handed backhand."

Him: "No, no, we can't. The USPTA specifically says not to teach any kid the one handed backhand until at least 12 years old. Always 2 hands on a backhand, these kids, their shoulders muscles are not fully formed yet."

Me: "That's bullshit, man, and you know it. Why does the USPTA have such an idiotic rule?"

Him: "I don't know, I don't make the rules, I just follow them."

He then proceeded to teach her and the kids the 2 handed backhand and sent me to another court.

What a joke. All the kids are hittig forehands with one hand, why not backhands with one hand? Their shoulders seem fine hitting a forehand. And we all know how difficult it is to switch from 2 to 1 hand backhand, especially at that age, just ask Pete Sampras how hard it was. But also ask him if it was worth it.

This is part of the reason for the lack of one handed backhands in the game today. Not because it is weak, or can't handle high balls, bullshit. But because it is coming from the top, the USPTA. Coaches and teachers are trained not to teach kids the one handed backhand.

I also believe this is a main reason for the lack of American stars in tennis. Not just laziness and complacency, those are a given, but absolute stupidity and close-mindedness of the coaches.

Funny how we've come full circle in tennis. In the old days, it was only 1 handed backhand, anyone that used 2 or hit open stance was considered an outcast. Now the game is bursting with 2 handed backhands and open stance shots.

What are your opinions on this? Is it bullshit?

MuzzahLovah
01-27-2012, 04:47 PM
Frobidden :haha:

NadalSharapova
01-27-2012, 04:49 PM
2 handed is definately better but they should have a choice what to do

Chris Kuerten
01-27-2012, 04:50 PM
Of course it's bullshit, a single hander suits certain people better. It's really disgusting to force everyone to play the same robotic game.

duong
01-27-2012, 04:50 PM
I don't know (I don't think) if there's a rule imposed by the national federation, but I've heard stories in France about some clubs where coaches were specifically enforced to teach only the 2-handed backhand now.

Johnny Groove
01-27-2012, 04:56 PM
Frobidden :haha:

NID that the first response would be about spelling than the actual content :rolleyes:

I don't know (I don't think) if there's a rule imposed by the national federation, but I've heard stories in France about some clubs where coaches were specifically enforced to teach only the 2-handed backhand now.

It is like this in France too? :facepalm:

Snowwy
01-27-2012, 04:59 PM
Yeah, you can understand why, it is much more likely to lead to injury for children using the anterior shoulder muscles.

ballbasher101
01-27-2012, 04:59 PM
This is just too funny. Tennis shots come naturally, especially the serve. Players should be allowed to express themselves. The single-hander is all but dead sadly. One of these days a new Federer will emerge. I thought Dimitrov would follow Federer and Sampras in making the single-hander appealing again. The single-hander is such a beautiful shot. Are well maybe in 10 years time a champion with a single handed backhand will emerge.

abraxas21
01-27-2012, 05:03 PM
sooner than later, everybody will be copying djokovic's generic tennis style. :bowdown:

abraxas21
01-27-2012, 05:04 PM
weird thing about this is that it wasn't that long ago when players used to hit the backhand exclusively with one hand

nsidhan
01-27-2012, 05:09 PM
You should be able to play both.

I have a single handed backhand but play two handed during times of duress ;).

Time Violation
01-27-2012, 05:09 PM
weird thing about this is that it wasn't that long ago when players used to hit the backhand exclusively with one hand

Lol, according to Novak, he also used to play with one-hander in the beginning, and only switched later because he was too skinny to get some power off it :)

abraxas21
01-27-2012, 05:15 PM
he still is

timafi
01-27-2012, 05:46 PM
they should teach their kids to return better and have variety;footwork;speed and play at the baseline and at the net and most of all they should focus on teaching the kids how to play on ALL fucking surfaces unlike the sorry punks they've got now :rolleyes:

I hope the USTA waits another 15 years before they have a slam champion on either side:angel:

Naudio Spanlatine
01-27-2012, 05:54 PM
These people in America are so fucking dumb its not even funny, this is why its hard to cheer for american tennis these days:facepalm: :shout: :o :banghead:

Sunset of Age
01-27-2012, 05:58 PM
Yeah, you can understand why, it is much more likely to lead to injury for children using the anterior shoulder muscles.

Uhm. Perhaps with the modern rackets but it used to be quite different in the past. When I learned to play as a kid - yes, a couple of decades ago :angel: - it wasn't forbidden to play a double-hander, but it came pretty close!
My tennis instructor at that time (and I'm sure he wasn't the only one) considered the one-hander as the only 'pure' technique and the double-hander as largely inferior. My complaints that one Mr. Jimmy Connors did pretty well with his ugly double-hander in those days was ignored, as he was considered to be the exception of the rule... how times have changed since then.

weird thing about this is that it wasn't that long ago when players used to hit the backhand exclusively with one hand

Yep.
I think it's mainly a matter of 1) changed racket technology, and 2) the sad fact that most folks appear to be lemmings, "following-the-leader". The double-hander is what works best nowadays, so it's considered to be best for all. Which may well be questionable.

Seingeist
01-27-2012, 06:02 PM
Where is the poll option, "Neither, the thread is bullshit. Johnny Capo is a chronic liar, fabricator, and exaggerator?"

samanosuke
01-27-2012, 06:08 PM
They are frustrated with Fed's score against American players so they don't want a reminder of any type on Fed

Time Violation
01-27-2012, 06:09 PM
The double-hander is what works best nowadays, so it's considered to be best for all. Which may well be questionable.

Well, no wonder, if even the GOAT can struggle with one-hander occasionally, what can others expect? :)

pray-for-palestine-and-israel
01-27-2012, 06:17 PM
americans are the smartest people on the planet

nadal is the only guy to ever exploit a good 1 hbh- and even then that was only one facet of the rivalry

1 handers allow for more power

Johnny Groove
01-27-2012, 06:34 PM
Where is the poll option, "Neither, the thread is bullshit. Johnny Capo is a chronic liar, fabricator, and exaggerator?"

Not Applicable.

Naudio Spanlatine
01-27-2012, 06:35 PM
They are frustrated with Fed's score against American players so they don't want a reminder of any type on Fed

i agree with this, JEALOUS is a bitch these days:rolleyes: :ras:

Sunset of Age
01-27-2012, 06:38 PM
Well, no wonder, if even the GOAT can struggle with one-hander occasionally, what can others expect? :)

Oh I didn't say that it wasn't understandable. ;)
Fed occasionally struggleing with his one-hander has a lot to do with one certain opponent, btw.

shiaben
01-27-2012, 06:41 PM
I don't believe in this "injury" bull shit. Guys like Gasquet I'm assuming were taught tennis at a young age (I think 4 since his parents were instructors), and since he's from Europe, where the one handed backhand is available, I'm more than sure his parents taught him the one hander at such a young age, which probably explains why he has a world class one hander and arguably the finest on the tour today.

I personally think it has to do with the lack of confidence the USTA has in their pupils. They are simply "too conservative". They think if 50% of their students chose a one hander over a two hander, they will automatically become shit players and never go pro. They think if 100% of them are two handers, they will have like a higher % of becoming successful.

Okay yes it is true that you make more errors off the one hander (since you sacrifice accuracy and control for more power), and the one hander exhausts your arm a lot more quicker. But as long as your student is committed to the game and art of tennis, who gives a damn if he prefers a one hander? If he's a great tennis player, he'll be successful no matter what, whether its a one hander or a two hander.

Naudio Spanlatine
01-27-2012, 06:56 PM
I don't believe in this "injury" bull shit. Guys like Gasquet I'm assuming were taught tennis at a young age (I think 4 since his parents were instructors), and since he's from Europe, where the one handed backhand is available, I'm more than sure his parents taught him the one hander at such a young age, which probably explains why he has a world class one hander and arguably the finest on the tour today.

I personally think it has to do with the lack of confidence the USTA has in their pupils. They are simply "too conservative". They think if 50% of their students chose a one hander over a two hander, they will automatically become shit players and never go pro. They think if 100% of them are two handers, they will have like a higher % of becoming successful.

Okay yes it is true that you make more errors off the one hander (since you sacrifice accuracy and control for more power), and the one hander exhausts your arm a lot more quicker. But as long as your student is committed to the game and art of tennis, who gives a damn if he prefers a one hander? If he's a great tennis player, he'll be successful no matter what, whether its a one hander or a two hander.

I agree:o

ossie
01-27-2012, 06:58 PM
i don´t think it should be forbidden if they choose to employ mug tactics in their game but as their trainer it is your obligation to teach them the superior double-handed way to hit a backhand.

RafaNadal2012!!!
01-27-2012, 08:02 PM
Look at guys like Gasquet, Wawrinka, Almagro, etc and tell me 2 hander is always the best way. Try forcing Laver and see where that gets you

tennisfan856
01-27-2012, 08:08 PM
so many naive posters.

The story didn't happen, it was just an excuse to discuss the lack of 1 handed backhands on the tour. From the clubs I've been around, they teach whatever grip is comfortable for the students. Many don't like the grip of the one hander and find a 2 hander much easier to switch to a forehand during a rally. It's more about comfort than strength. I have yet to see a coach run on court and yell at his students to not hit a specific stroke, unless they are really hacking it and he tries to correct it.

leng jai
01-27-2012, 08:09 PM
You making shit up again JG?

peribsen
01-27-2012, 08:16 PM
Are that many of you really blind to the health implications of this? I don't know if the 12-yr limit is correct or if it could be lowered a bit, but small children simply do not have a fully developed shoulder. Hitting a BH, unike a FH, implies exercizing muscles that are not usually used that very much in everyday activities of people that age (I mean used with a large work load, children obviously do use every single muscle in their bodies). There is a good reason for not doing so, before the bone structure supporting those muscles is more fully formed. Will something happen if a child hits a single-handed BH? Bollocks. If he hits 6 single handed BH? Certainly not. But if he trains single handed BH, hitting several hundreds over time? Chances are that the incidence of children with chronic shoulder problems will skyrocket. Parents who send their child to tennis school have a right to expect instructors being aware of that kind of issues. Not because of trends in the style of the game, nor even just to avoid a possible epidemic of court cases, but for simple common sense.

Is it really that serious to have a small child adapt just one movement of the game till he/she is old enough to do it properly? People thinking so should consider moving to gymnastics, where children are almost routinely abused in the hope that one of the class makes it to the Olympics... and to hell with the many more that are left on the way, not that infrequently with chronic articular problems.

For heaven's sake, you are discussing kids here!

Jimnik
01-27-2012, 08:20 PM
Him: "No, no, we can't. The USPTA specifically says not to teach any kid the one handed backhand until at least 12 years old. Always 2 hands on a backhand, these kids, their shoulders muscles are not fully formed yet."

Me: "That's bullshit, man, and you know it. Why does the USPTA have such an idiotic rule?"

Him: "I don't know, I don't make the rules, I just follow them."

I find this story hard to believe but if it's true this guy sounds like a bureaucratic douche-bag. USPTA rules are not laws, they're guidelines. Any coach who takes them that seriously needs to have his reputation seriously called into question.

As for the rule itself, obviously it's ridiculous. If they were really worried about injuries they'd ban hard courts for juniors growing up and only employ soft grass and clay surfaces.

peribsen
01-27-2012, 08:37 PM
While they are at it, they should ban HC for all ages, who needs the parking lot tennis that has done so much harm to the sport? Keep clay and bring back more grass, loads and loads of grass, like it was in the golden days of the sport!!

latso
01-27-2012, 08:56 PM
Did they hear the Spanish TA forcing kids to play the Rafa FH?

Freaking ridiculous.

Half of the best Americans in last 30-40 years are playing one handers, how on earth could you put such a stupid rule?

How was the one hander not screwing Justine's shoulders? She's been probably 6 kgs of body weight when she's started hitting it frst... :rolleyes:

If this was the rule in France 20 years ago, Gasquet would be a bar tender nowadays :facepalm:

latso
01-27-2012, 09:12 PM
I don't believe in this "injury" bull shit. Guys like Gasquet I'm assuming were taught tennis at a young age (I think 4 since his parents were instructors), and since he's from Europe, where the one handed backhand is available, I'm more than sure his parents taught him the one hander at such a young age, which probably explains why he has a world class one hander and arguably the finest on the tour today.

I personally think it has to do with the lack of confidence the USTA has in their pupils. They are simply "too conservative". They think if 50% of their students chose a one hander over a two hander, they will automatically become shit players and never go pro. They think if 100% of them are two handers, they will have like a higher % of becoming successful.

Okay yes it is true that you make more errors off the one hander (since you sacrifice accuracy and control for more power), and the one hander exhausts your arm a lot more quicker. But as long as your student is committed to the game and art of tennis, who gives a damn if he prefers a one hander? If he's a great tennis player, he'll be successful no matter what, whether its a one hander or a two hander.
You have it all wrong about the characteristics of the two BHs (no offense).

You don't sacrifice anything. Power - same, Control - better with 2 hands, Precision - better with 1 hand.

You don't get your arm more tired playing one hander over two hander.

The actual differences -

You have a better reach in deffence with 1 hander.

You have a possibility for sharper angles with the 2 hands.

You have a better play on high balls with 2 hands (simple biomecanics).

You develop a better feelling for slice and volleys whn you play 1 hander (anyone remember a top volleyer, playing 2 handed BH? I can name a few playing with 1 hand - Edberg, Becker, Sampras, Federer, Llodra, McEnroe)

So, considering that with the surfaces slowing down considerably and the direction of evolving in the racquet technologies, hence less S&V, as well as more high balls on the BH - there is a slight advantage on playing a 2 hander.

Yet, no shot by itself could determine if a player would be successful or not.

leng jai
01-27-2012, 09:15 PM
The biggest pro for two handers these days = more consistency. Can you imagine a single hander making as many shots on hard court as the Murray/Nole did yesterday?

hipolymer
01-27-2012, 09:21 PM
For heaven's sake, you are discussing kids here!

http://vonscomics.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/helen-lovejoy.jpg

latso
01-27-2012, 09:53 PM
The biggest pro for two handers these days = more consistency. Can you imagine a single hander making as many shots on hard court as the Murray/Nole did yesterday?
consistency has nothing to do with this.

Gasquet f.e. can stay in a BH exchange as long as he wants to (before he snaps it DTL).


If the fact of playing the BH with 2 hands would give you more consistency, it would be long ago the one hander to be in history books under fun facts.

Consistency at this level is In.The.Legs.

leng jai
01-27-2012, 10:11 PM
consistency has nothing to do with this.

Gasquet f.e. can stay in a BH exchange as long as he wants to (before he snaps it DTL).


If the fact of playing the BH with 2 hands would give you more consistency, it would be long ago the one hander to be in history books under fun facts.

Consistency at this level is In.The.Legs.

How many single handers are like Gasquets? The only way he can stay consistent on his backhand is by standing far behind the baseline and waiting for the ball to drop to a hittable height. Do you know much strength it takes to hit a singlehander against the amount of topspin/height players are getting on their shots these days? Players with two handers have a much easier time taking the ball early on top of the baseline.

Back when hard court and grass were actually fast you didn't have to hit 8+ backhands in one rally to win a point.

Snowwy
01-27-2012, 10:47 PM
Uhm. Perhaps with the modern rackets but it used to be quite different in the past. When I learned to play as a kid - yes, a couple of decades ago :angel: - it wasn't forbidden to play a double-hander, but it came pretty close!
My tennis instructor at that time (and I'm sure he wasn't the only one) considered the one-hander as the only 'pure' technique and the double-hander as largely inferior. My complaints that one Mr. Jimmy Connors did pretty well with his ugly double-hander in those days was ignored, as he was considered to be the exception of the rule... how times have changed since then.



Yep.
I think it's mainly a matter of 1) changed racket technology, and 2) the sad fact that most folks appear to be lemmings, "following-the-leader". The double-hander is what works best nowadays, so it's considered to be best for all. Which may well be questionable.

Whoc ares if it is more pure. Its less effective and its more dangerous for players arms.

thrust
01-28-2012, 12:19 AM
2 handed is definately better but they should have a choice what to do

Years ago natural lefties, like Rosewall and Court, were forced to play right handed. I agree that kids should make their own choice. Most kids though will start to copy the players the see on TV
.

Seingeist
01-28-2012, 01:20 AM
so many naive posters.

The story didn't happen, it was just an excuse to discuss the lack of 1 handed backhands on the tour. From the clubs I've been around, they teach whatever grip is comfortable for the students. Many don't like the grip of the one hander and find a 2 hander much easier to switch to a forehand during a rally. It's more about comfort than strength. I have yet to see a coach run on court and yell at his students to not hit a specific stroke, unless they are really hacking it and he tries to correct it.

You making shit up again JG?

I find this story hard to believe but if it's true this guy sounds like a bureaucratic douche-bag. USPTA rules are not laws, they're guidelines. Any coach who takes them that seriously needs to have his reputation seriously called into question.

As for the rule itself, obviously it's ridiculous. If they were really worried about injuries they'd ban hard courts for juniors growing up and only employ soft grass and clay surfaces.

They're hip to your jive, Capo ;). That anecdote reeks to high heaven.

You left out the part where you and the "head pro of the clinic" get into an epic knife fight while Serena the ironically-named 1h-backhanded Asian mini-Gasquet watches on in horror.

Topspindoctor
01-28-2012, 01:29 AM
Another clown topic from a future ATP clown :zzz:

latso
01-28-2012, 12:41 PM
How many single handers are like Gasquets? The only way he can stay consistent on his backhand is by standing far behind the baseline and waiting for the ball to drop to a hittable height. Do you know much strength it takes to hit a singlehander against the amount of topspin/height players are getting on their shots these days? Players with two handers have a much easier time taking the ball early on top of the baseline.

Back when hard court and grass were actually fast you didn't have to hit 8+ backhands in one rally to win a point.
There is a certain part of logic in the last sentence, yet clay existed and was eventually even slower back then, and one of his rulers was Mr. One Hander Guga.

So again i'm totally staying behind my thesis that one or two hands behind the ball doesn't mean consistency or not.

There is no evidence even for the "kind of demi volley" from baseline consistency (because this is what you probably mean, as hitting it from the baseline or 3 meters behind actually changes the subject by claiming - You have more consistency hitting BH with 2 hands on the baseline, while far behind the baseline it is the same.

I disagree with this one too.

About playing a high ball - yes, i agree it is easier to hit with two hands, but only if you mean to flatten the shot and hit it hard. Otherwise you can easily top spin lift a high ball and in terms of consistency it will be the same for both BHs.

To conclude - you have more consistency on the 2 hander only in the following case - When you want to hit a flat and powerful BH on a high ball.

And that's it.

You have much more consistency playing slices with 1 hand, playing BH volleys with 1 hand, playing BH smatch with 1 hand, making BH drop shots with 1 hand.

So it's the same on a general basis.

imo

Johnny Groove
01-28-2012, 02:12 PM
They're hip to your jive, Capo ;). That anecdote reeks to high heaven.

You left out the part where you and the "head pro of the clinic" get into an epic knife fight while Serena the ironically-named 1h-backhanded Asian mini-Gasquet watches on in horror.

Another clown topic from a future ATP clown :zzz:

Have I become the MTF poster who cries wolf? :lol:

Regardless, this is a true story. I couldn't believe it when he said that everyone must learn the 2 hander backhand. Also nice to see some good discussion here, a rarity on GM.