2012 AO SF: will it make Murray more or less likely to win a slam in future? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

2012 AO SF: will it make Murray more or less likely to win a slam in future?

out_grinder
01-27-2012, 01:43 PM
Will he go through a post-AO slump like in the previous 2 years?

Will this tight grand slam loss to a major rival make him tighter still against the top guys?

I think every big loss against a big player is very damaging. Look at what happened with Nadal vs Djokovic. The damage is also physical as well as psychological; Murray is older than Djokovic and has probably 12 months left of his life in which to win a slam.

If Murrays chances of winning a slam one day were so-so before today, I think they have now taken a significant hit.

Was Murrays body language as negative as it has been when he was down in the match?

LawrenceOfTennis
01-27-2012, 01:55 PM
It was a devastating defeat, that's why I think he will copy last year. Only worse.

buzz
01-27-2012, 01:58 PM
No, being close should be encouraging.

Certinfy
01-27-2012, 02:52 PM
Being a SF I think it'll encourage and motivate him even more.

Had that been a final though I think he might have mentally lost it, perhaps even for good.

Roddickominator
01-27-2012, 03:04 PM
I don't think he'll slump....at least not nearly as bad as last year. Losing to Donald Young will end up one of his career lowlights.

But this loss to Djokovic doesn't help OR hurt his chances of winning a Slam. He never had a chance in the first place and that hasn't changed. Okay well I shouldn't say that....if Murray gets lucky and doesn't have to face Roger, Rafa, or Novak in a Slam and ends up playing Gael Monfils or Gilles Simon in a final, then he could win. But that just isn't gonna happen.

yesh222
01-27-2012, 03:27 PM
I think it will help him. This was a "good loss" for him, entirely the opposite of the past few years.

Jagermeister
01-27-2012, 03:40 PM
I don't think he'll slump....at least not nearly as bad as last year. Losing to Donald Young will end up one of his career lowlights.

But this loss to Djokovic doesn't help OR hurt his chances of winning a Slam. He never had a chance in the first place and that hasn't changed. Okay well I shouldn't say that....if Murray gets lucky and doesn't have to face Roger, Rafa, or Novak in a Slam and ends up playing Gael Monfils or Gilles Simon in a final, then he could win. But that just isn't gonna happen.

I woke up to get a glass of water at 4AM and I decided to sit down and watch some of the second set. The level that Murray displayed in that set tells me hes actually a lot closer to winning a Slam

The problem is, what I saw on the final set was a lot of pushing. Not sure if it was due to fatigue or what but he just got a lot more passive in the final set. Can Lendl help him overcome that?

rocketassist
01-27-2012, 03:42 PM
I woke up to get a glass of water at 4AM and I decided to sit down and watch some of the second set. The level that Murray displayed in that set tells me hes actually a lot closer to winning a Slam

The problem is, what I saw on the final set was a lot of pushing. Not sure if it was due to fatigue or what but he just got a lot more passive in the final set. Can Lendl help him overcome that?

He did get passive but only in the 5-5 game, in particular the point Nole saved with the down the line FH, there were opportunities but he didn't pull the trigger.

The worst one was the backhand into the net.

Sapeod
01-27-2012, 03:50 PM
It was a devastating defeat, that's why I think he will copy last year. Only worse.
Rather, you hope that. This wasn't a final, so this won't be anywhere near as devastating as last year. He seems to be very pleased with how he played, so there won't be a slump this time, unfortunately for you :)

Jagermeister
01-27-2012, 03:59 PM
The worst one was the backhand into the net.

Yes. Very painful to watch. The shot was there.

I really hope he doesn't go through a bad slump again, even if I don't call myself a fan. Losing to Donald Young makes baby Jesus sad.

SetSampras
01-27-2012, 04:00 PM
I dunno how it makes it likely.. All this shows is Murray is still just a headcase when it comes right down to it on the big stage.

LawrenceOfTennis
01-27-2012, 04:07 PM
Rather, you hope that. This wasn't a final, so this won't be anywhere near as devastating as last year. He seems to be very pleased with how he played, so there won't be a slump this time, unfortunately for you :)

Ignorant kid. I actually wanted Murray to win today. But he failed again.
The problem is that probably he played his best match in a long time and still lost to a 70-80% Djokovic. This is Murray's peak, he is pretty old, can't see him improving that much in the future. He will always be in quarters or semis, just no further because of top 3. That simple.

Chris Kuerten
01-27-2012, 04:08 PM
0% + 0% = 0%

Sapeod
01-27-2012, 04:14 PM
Ignorant kid. I actually wanted Murray to win today. But he failed again.
The problem is that probably he played his best match in a long time and still lost to a 70-80% Djokovic. This is Murray's peak, he is pretty old, can't see him improving that much in the future. He will always be in quarters or semis, just no further because of top 3. That simple.
You call me ignorant, yet you claim that this result will make Murray slump? He's very happy with this result, as it was a good loss (as good as a loss to Djokovic can be). Yet you continue to say he'll slump because of it? How ignorant of you.

LawrenceOfTennis
01-27-2012, 04:19 PM
You call me ignorant, yet you claim that this result will make Murray slump? He's very happy with this result, as it was a good loss (as good as a loss to Djokovic can be). Yet you continue to say he'll slump because of it? How ignorant of you.

He won't tell the press that he is depressed.
But. He fought for nothing today. He played an awesome third set, arguably his best forehands in a long time. Then he tanked the 4th in a shameless way, it was a sin. Nobody can be happy after a lost semi, especially if he fought for 5 hours. Had he lost in 3 easy sets, it would be much easier.
I bet it will affect his results.

Sapeod
01-27-2012, 04:23 PM
He won't tell the press that he is depressed.
But. He fought for nothing today. He played an awesome third set, arguably his best forehands in a long time. Then he tanked the 4th in a shameless way, it was a sin. Nobody can be happy after a lost semi, especially if he fought for 5 hours. Had he lost in 3 easy sets, it would be much easier.
I bet it will affect his results.
More rubbish from you, which isn't unexpected. This was a good loss. Djokovic was lucky to escape. Says a lot about Murray, as I've said. He's clearly happy about the way he played the match, so don't expect a slump. I know you want one, but you'll have to suck it up.

syc23
01-27-2012, 04:25 PM
Murray is closer winning a slam than all of you arseholes and doubters who keep asking the same questions. Let's see how far you would get playing in a slam. Murray will have a good chance in the remaining 3 slams this year aswell as in the next 3-4 years.

Deal with it. Same thing with Federer who can come back after AO defeat.

LawrenceOfTennis
01-27-2012, 04:27 PM
More rubbish from you, which isn't unexpected. This was a good loss. Djokovic was lucky to escape. Says a lot about Murray, as I've said. He's clearly happy about the way he played the match, so don't expect a slump. I know you want one, but you'll have to suck it up.

You clearly don't know anything about the psychology of tennis. It is fucking devastating because it was a close one. Shows how ignorant you are that you thought it's good for him to lose a 5 hour long semi. Overall it was a worse loss than last year's final.

Roddickominator
01-27-2012, 04:28 PM
More rubbish from you, which isn't unexpected. This was a good loss. Djokovic was lucky to escape. Says a lot about Murray, as I've said. He's clearly happy about the way he played the match, so don't expect a slump. I know you want one, but you'll have to suck it up.

I haven't talked to Murray or listened to any interviews after the match, but if he's saying things like "This was a good loss" and "I'm happy with the way I lost this match", then it's worse than i've figured. That is just a loser mentality, which I have always suspected that Murray has. It makes things a lot clearer now looking back if this is the way he thinks.

LawrenceOfTennis
01-27-2012, 04:32 PM
I haven't talked to Murray or listened to any interviews after the match, but if he's saying things like "This was a good loss" and "I'm happy with the way I lost this match", then it's worse than i've figured. That is just a loser mentality, which I have always suspected that Murray has. It makes things a lot clearer now looking back if this is the way he thinks.

Great point, actually the same what I think. Murray either still thinks it's just a learning curve or just trying to hide his real feelings, latter is more possible of course.
If he thinks he needs experience:lol: then thats just pathetic, considering he is almost 25 years old.

mystic ice cube
01-27-2012, 04:42 PM
LawrenceOfTennis :facepalm: the hating is intense.

Can only see this helping Murray because he pushed Nole to the wire, something he hasn't done on the big stage since Nadal a few years back. Many positives to take here. It will be interesting to see how he does with Lendl as his coach over the next year.

azinna
01-27-2012, 04:48 PM
^ I agree, I think Murray should agree and Lendl should help him feel this way. Especially if it was fatigue (not head-casing) that ruined that fourth set for him.

Clydey
01-27-2012, 06:18 PM
I haven't talked to Murray or listened to any interviews after the match, but if he's saying things like "This was a good loss" and "I'm happy with the way I lost this match", then it's worse than i've figured. That is just a loser mentality, which I have always suspected that Murray has. It makes things a lot clearer now looking back if this is the way he thinks.

Way to twist things.

He said he was happy with the way he played and how he fought. He did not say that he was happy with how he lost. He was comparing his mentality this year to his mentality in last year's final.

Try not to go out of your way to misrepresent what people say.

RafaNadal2012!!!
01-27-2012, 08:03 PM
His 2012:
RG: 4R or QF
WB: SF
US: SF or F

2013:
AO: Win
FO: QF
WB: QF
US: F

Singularity
01-27-2012, 08:14 PM
He won't tell the press that he is depressed.
But. He fought for nothing today. He played an awesome third set, arguably his best forehands in a long time. Then he tanked the 4th in a shameless way, it was a sin. Nobody can be happy after a lost semi, especially if he fought for 5 hours. Had he lost in 3 easy sets, it would be much easier.
I bet it will affect his results.
As a fan maybe it would have been easier, but this loss tells Murray that he's very, very close.

NID
01-27-2012, 08:43 PM
Its all wrong when you go out in three meek sets, playing like a wuss.
There is nothing wrong when you go out in a nailbiting five-setter.
Murray will have a really good 2012.

Hypnotize
01-27-2012, 08:46 PM
Murray impressed me today and it's not often I say that. He didn't have the usual tantrum on court like we've come to expect and he was a lot more aggressive than he has been in the past. He's still a level below the top 3 but he took a step up the ladder today.

AndyUK
01-27-2012, 08:55 PM
I doubt he'll have a slump like last year. He can take a lot out of todays loss, whereas last year, he got completely thrashed in the final. If anything, it might even give him a bit more confidence that he can hang with the best on the big stage.

shotgun
01-27-2012, 08:58 PM
Federer and Nadal are already declining, now he needs Djokovic to start declining or have a massive letdown for him to win a Slam. The problem is that, when it happens, it may be too late for Muzza.

MurrayMagic1
01-27-2012, 09:27 PM
Murray is closer winning a slam than all of you arseholes and doubters who keep asking the same questions. Let's see how far you would get playing in a slam. Murray will have a good chance in the remaining 3 slams this year aswell as in the next 3-4 years.

Deal with it. Same thing with Federer who can come back after AO defeat.

finally someone that supports Murray :worship: :wavey: exactly right! :cool: Murray is closer than ever to that GS. To be honest though I haven't particularly enjoyed the AO that much this year.. there was just a feeling about it that something was not quite right.. too much drama and injuries and faking about :o Im hoping the French Open will be better

nalbyfan
01-28-2012, 12:08 PM
Winning a GS or not is unimportant, Muzza is a much better player than Gaudio or Noah. This semi doesn't change anything in his career

xdrewitdajx
01-28-2012, 12:26 PM
it's not like he's way off. It must be frustrating to keep hearing "he's close" and "it's only a matter of time". He definitely is close, and I think he's closer now than ever...but there are no guarantees.
I think he'll break through this year though

Chris Kuerten
01-28-2012, 12:30 PM
Winning a GS or not is unimportant, Muzza is a much better player than Gaudio or Noah. This semi doesn't change anything in his career
Who cares if he is a better player than them if he has nothing to show for it?

xdrewitdajx
01-28-2012, 12:31 PM
nothing to show for it? lol

Chris Kuerten
01-28-2012, 12:34 PM
nothing to show for it? lolMurray will be irrelevant in 20 years if he retires without winning a slam.

xdrewitdajx
01-28-2012, 12:47 PM
let's put a pin in this and re-open the discussion in 20 years then

nalbyfan
01-28-2012, 12:50 PM
Murray will be irrelevant in 20 years if he retires without winning a slam.

Wilander is irrelevant even if he won several GS.....you can be irrelevant for various reasons !!

mystic ice cube
01-28-2012, 12:52 PM
Murray will be irrelevant in 20 years if he retires without winning a slam.
I think your point is a little exaggerated. If Murray was to retire right now, he would go down as the greatest player to never win a slam - probably something that will be talked about for years. But lets just look at the stats; the guy is 24, he has reached the semi-finals or better in the last 5 slams, and his game is improving. He pushed the number 1 player to the maximum on his best surface. Andy openly said after the match that he was going for his points more, instead of being passive like before. I genuinely think he not afraid of the big stage now.

Ultimately, if this man does not win a slam I will be very surprised.

Chris Kuerten
01-28-2012, 12:53 PM
let's put a pin in this and re-open the discussion in 20 years thenCan you name some truly memorable players in Murray's skill league who never won a slam or have been number one in the world?I think your point is a little exaggerated. If Murray was to retire right now, he would go down as the greatest player to never win a slam - probably something that will be talked about for years. But lets just look at the stats; the guy is 24, he has reached the semi-finals or better in the last 5 slams, and his game is improving. He pushed the number 1 player to the maximum on his best surface. Andy openly said after the match that he was going for his points more, instead of being passive like before. I genuinely think he not afraid of the big stage now.

Ultimately, if this man does not win a slam I will be very surprised.That's basically coming down to being remembered for being a loser. However I don't have that feeling at all with someone like Rios, so maybe I am just biased.

Deathless Mortal
01-28-2012, 12:55 PM
let's put a pin in this and re-open the discussion in 20 years then

So how exactly do you think he'll be relevant besides perhaps as an example of how to get tight at the late stages of GSs?

mystic ice cube
01-28-2012, 01:06 PM
That's basically coming down to being remembered for being a loser. However I don't have that feeling at all with someone like Rios, so maybe I am just biased.
So people will instantly look past his ability and think of him as a loser? If people were all like this I'd lose faith in humanity. Or rather, the people who actually have a clue about tennis will not think the same.
So how exactly do you think he'll be relevant besides perhaps as an example of how to get tight at the late stages of GSs?
The guy is 24 years of age, making assumptions about his career is premature.

I don't want to come across like I'm defending Murray, but give the guy a break.

Allez
01-28-2012, 01:13 PM
As long as someone takes care of Nadal Murray should have plenty of chances to win his maiden GS. It may even come as soon as this year at the USO. I can't see Nole repeating last year's heroics...unless he does.

Ash86
01-28-2012, 01:20 PM
Murray's chances are probably better after that match - even though I think he mentally still showed he lacked something he seems to believe it was an important match for him and showed he had the game to beat the top 2/3 in a slam. Whether he's right or wrong doesn't matter - what he believes and the confidence he gains is more important. Unfortunately for him the next slam is on clay which he has little chance on - despite getting to the semi last year and improving a lot, he's not getting 3 sets off Nadal/Djokovic there.

That then leaves Wimbledon - think he needs to be on the other side of the draw as Rafa. He has the game to beat him there but at this point, having lost to Rafa 3 times on Centre Court I think mentally he'd be fresher against Djokovic and frankly despite last year's final Rafa is a tougher proposition on grass IMO than Novak. If Murray's in the final he could do it vs Rafa, not sure vs Fed...

His best chance is still the US Open and after how he performed vs Novak yesterday he has a very good shot there. I think he's likely to win either this US Open or the next Aus Open. He still has a good 2-4 more seasons of good tennis in him and I think he'd be very very unlucky to finish his career slamless...

out_grinder
01-28-2012, 02:16 PM
Gaudio and Noah and Delpotro ARE better players than Murray because they have a slam.

Best not to over-think things like different eras, easy draws...etc...

Slams are the ONLY statistic in tennis that matters. If you remember that you're on your way.

Therefore when Murray retires slamless, it doesn't matter if he makes every slam final from now until he's aged 40 if he loses all of them, since Gaudio reached only one slam final and won it, he will go down in history as the better player than Murray and remembered for all time, whereas it doesn't matter if Murray actually made all those 55 slam finals: if he lost all of them, he would be forgotten instantly.

DexterHol
01-28-2012, 02:23 PM
Gaudio and Noah and Delpotro ARE better players than Murray because they have a slam.

Best not to over-think things like different eras, easy draws...etc...

Slams are the ONLY statistic in tennis that matters. If you remember that you're on your way.

Therefore when Murray retires slamless, it doesn't matter if he makes every slam final from now until he's aged 40 if he loses all of them, since Gaudio reached only one slam final and won it, he will go down in history as the better player than Murray and remembered for all time, whereas it doesn't matter if Murray actually made all those 55 slam finals: if he lost all of them, he would be forgotten instantly.

Man, I laughed so hard at this... Seriously, how can some ppl say things like that?

yuri27
01-28-2012, 02:30 PM
Murray will be irrelevant in 20 years if he retires without winning a slam.

Yeah, like Leconte,Sabatini or Rios.
People remember them far more than the likes of Johannson, Korda or Albert Costa.

Chris Kuerten
01-28-2012, 03:43 PM
Yeah, like Leconte,Sabatini or Rios.
People remember them far more than the likes of Johannson, Korda or Albert Costa.Leconte is mainly remembered because he kept active as a clown on the senior tour. Sabatini? I don't care, this is MTF. Comparing Murray to one of the most talented players of all time just feels wrong.

Murray will probably end up on par with those fluke slam winners, but they all had a better career if Murray remains slamless.

syc23
01-28-2012, 03:59 PM
Can you name some truly memorable players in Murray's skill league who never won a slam or have been number one in the world?That's basically coming down to being remembered for being a loser. However I don't have that feeling at all with someone like Rios, so maybe I am just biased.

This makes you sound incredibly retarded. Let's not draw any conclusions until Murray calls time on his career. What's so special about Rios anyway? The tennis world don't seem to talk about him at all so take your rose tinted specs off and stop posting shite.

Chris Kuerten
01-28-2012, 04:14 PM
This makes you sound incredibly retarded. Let's not draw any conclusions until Murray calls time on his career. What's so special about Rios anyway? The tennis world don't seem to talk about him at all so take your rose tinted specs off and stop posting shite.Ask anyone who's relevant in the tennis world who they think are the most talented players of all time and they will all name Rios. I will take the opinion of guys like Federer and Safin over yours, if you don't mind.

mystic ice cube
01-28-2012, 04:55 PM
Leconte is mainly remembered because he kept active as a clown on the senior tour. Sabatini? I don't care, this is MTF. Comparing Murray to one of the most talented players of all time just feels wrong.

Murray will probably end up on par with those fluke slam winners, but they all had a better career if Murray remains slamless.
If this was the logic to follow then you could put 99% of players in the bracket of 'forgotten'. So Nalbandian, Davydenko, Gonzo, Ferrer - those guys careers mean 'nothing', because they haven't won a slam? Doesn't make any sense to me.

xdrewitdajx
01-28-2012, 05:19 PM
Can you name some truly memorable players in Murray's skill league who never won a slam or have been number one in the world?That's basically coming down to being remembered for being a loser. However I don't have that feeling at all with someone like Rios, so maybe I am just biased.

no, i can't name any players who never won a slam but compiled the kind of career Murray has (and he's far from done)...that's kind of the point

Chris Kuerten
01-28-2012, 05:22 PM
If this was the logic to follow then you could put 99% of players in the bracket of 'forgotten'. So Nalbandian, Davydenko, Gonzo, Ferrer - those guys careers mean 'nothing', because they haven't won a slam? Doesn't make any sense to me.
Of course they mean something. Hell, I respect everyone who can make their living out of playing tennis.

But winning a slam is just crucial to being seen as a champion in this game.

mystic ice cube
01-28-2012, 05:27 PM
I'll agree to disagree with your last sentence, but I see your point here. There is some people who see a slam as a massive thing on a tennis resume, and those who see it as although big, not as big as the former. Andy has won some tournaments, and done well in slams to date. That means something to me & I'm sure many will remember him as a great player for it. But again i'll say all of this is premature. He has many years left, so we will wait and see where he leaves his mark in tennis history.

LawrenceOfTennis
01-28-2012, 11:01 PM
Yeah, like Leconte,Sabatini or Rios.
People remember them far more than the likes of Johannson, Korda or Albert Costa.

If he fails to win something big, he will be irrelevant because Murray is a workhorse, he is not a character.

tektonac
01-29-2012, 12:24 AM
he'll win a slam, not sure if it is going to happen this year tho. he is getting there. however he may need a kind draw prior to SF/F. he has the quality to win a slam.

Mae
01-29-2012, 03:23 AM
I hope it will make him more likely to win a Slam :unsure:

Farenhajt
01-29-2012, 04:04 AM
That actually depends much more on Nole's and Rafa's form and mental stability than on anything Murray can do or has to offer.

pray-for-palestine-and-israel
01-29-2012, 05:01 AM
there is a very good argument for calling murray (not only) the greatest player who never won a slam

but better than the vast majority of a single and double slam winners

of course the counter argument then becomes- if he couldnt produce at a slam final- then any mentally strong player in the top 500 would probably beat him in a slam final

rocketassist
01-29-2012, 04:32 PM
That actually depends much more on Nole's and Rafa's form and mental stability than on anything Murray can do or has to offer.

Murray gave Nole a war, outplayed him at times and proved he can compete with him in a tennis capacity as he did in Rome, but you would never really be man enough to admit that, too much ego.

Mr.Miracle
01-29-2012, 04:59 PM
Ask anyone who's relevant in the tennis world who they think are the most talented players of all time and they will all name Rios. I will take the opinion of guys like Federer and Safin over yours, if you don't mind.

Rios probably had the most explosive ground strokes in the history of the game. Surely his forehand was astonishing, he could blow anyone away with it. It's too bad his serve sucked, and he was also a bit sketchy in the brain department.

Slams may not be everything, but they are the most important thing. Arguing against this is dumb. Murray has clearly stated his goal in tennis is to win a GS. It's the ultimate prize.

I personally think it's not such a great thing to repeatedly be losing so many close matches, as Murray does.

How many times does it take before losing close matches over and over, stops becoming a good thing and becomes a bad thing?

NJ88
01-29-2012, 05:10 PM
Andy Murray cant do anything expect take this match as a massive positive and step in the right direction. I was most interestedin this semi final because it would give us an indication of how Murray has improved against a seemingly unstoppable Djokovic. As we saw, the difference in the Murray from last year and Murray from this year is astounding.

Last year he was passive, negative, and after going down a set and a break he completely lost it. This year, he went down a set, he went down a break....and he kept fighting, he won the second set, won the third set, and very VERY nearly won the match. His mental side of things had improved 100% He would NEVER have came back last year like he did. He was also playing a lot more aggressive and it was working, he kept it up for five sets. He came just as close as Nadal (if not closer) to beating the best player in the world, and missed out by the smallest of margins.

He just got that much closer to Nadal/Djokovic, and he's restored my belief that he will win a slam, maybe even this year. His partnership with Lendyl has only just begun and he'll start to feel the full benefits by the French/Wimbledon so look for him to be doing even better by that point. Match should be nothing but a positive for him. Yes he didnt win, but the point it, he could have and should be able to win the next couple of months.

TennisGrandSlam
01-29-2012, 05:12 PM
Maybe one

One and only one

Andi-M
01-29-2012, 05:37 PM
Gaudio and Noah and Delpotro ARE better players than Murray because they have a slam.

Best not to over-think things like different eras, easy draws...etc...

Slams are the ONLY statistic in tennis that matters. If you remember that you're on your way.

Therefore when Murray retires slamless, it doesn't matter if he makes every slam final from now until he's aged 40 if he loses all of them, since Gaudio reached only one slam final and won it, he will go down in history as the better player than Murray and remembered for all time, whereas it doesn't matter if Murray actually made all those 55 slam finals: if he lost all of them, he would be forgotten instantly.

:haha: :haha:

You are having a laugh!
actually slam winners such as Gaudio, Johansson, Korda are pretty much forgotton, and aren't remembered as great players. They are known as flukey one-slam wonderers. Tim Henman is still remebered more than these fella's and Tim's career dosent even come close to what Murray has already achived at 24...so go figure!

and you say .....Murray will be forgotten instanly if he lost 55 slam finals in a row?? I'd say that would make him greatly remebered - the stuff of legend that.

fran70
01-29-2012, 06:08 PM
Definitely. This is a different Murray and sooner or later he will win his first GS.

syc23
01-29-2012, 06:47 PM
Murray will probably finish his career with 3 slams. Wimbledon, USO & AO. He's too good not win a few. In the next 2-3 years will be a real window of opportunity for the Scot. Some may say his time has passed but if people afford Tsonga, Berdych and Soderling the luxury of time to win their first then Andy being a good couple of years younger will have just as good a chance to win a few.

Farenhajt
01-29-2012, 06:57 PM
Murray gave Nole a war, outplayed him at times and proved he can compete with him in a tennis capacity as he did in Rome, but you would never really be man enough to admit that, too much ego.

So, you basically want me to admit that warming up hopes (what Murray does time and again, without bearing viable fruit even when he gets this close) has the same price tag as actual wins and most prestigious titles of the game (what Novak collects time and again, without surrendering even while being beaten to the inch of his life)? Do reconsider who's exactly a retard among the two of us.

LawrenceOfTennis
01-29-2012, 06:58 PM
Murray will probably finish his career with 3 slams. Wimbledon, USO & AO. He's too good not win a few. In the next 2-3 years will be a real window of opportunity for the Scot. Some may say his time has passed but if people afford Tsonga, Berdych and Soderling the luxury of time to win their first then Andy being a good couple of years younger will have just as good a chance to win a few.

delusional brit. hopeless.

rocketassist
01-29-2012, 07:07 PM
So, you basically want me to admit that warming up hopes (what Murray does time and again, without bearing viable fruit even when he gets this close) has the same price tag as actual wins and most prestigious titles of the game (what Novak collects time and again, without surrendering even while being beaten to the inch of his life)? Do reconsider who's exactly a retard among the two of us.

:haha:

Mentally, there's obviously a chasm the size of a mountain between the two, but in terms of natural tennis ability, there's not a lot besides the forehand. On tennis terms, Murray can compete with him. Mentally, he can't. Get it, nerd?

Sapeod
01-29-2012, 07:13 PM
delusional brit. hopeless.
Delusional Brit? Why did you bring up his nationality?

NadalSharapova
01-29-2012, 07:16 PM
murray is a good player who is unfortunate to be born in this difficult era. if his peak was between 2001-2007 he'd have a few majors.

NadalSharapova
01-29-2012, 07:18 PM
i don't think murray will win a major, not because he's not a very good player. Its cos of the ridiculously tough competition he has facing him. He's not an explosive del ptro either who could just blast a players off the court in a couple of wonder performances (USO 2009)

Farenhajt
01-29-2012, 07:18 PM
:haha:

Mentally, there's obviously a chasm the size of a mountain between the two, but in terms of natural tennis ability, there's not a lot besides the forehand. On tennis terms, Murray can compete with him. Mentally, he can't. Get it, nerd?

Aha, so now we disregard the mental aspect of the game so that in our non-biased :haha: analysis Murray would have roughly fifty-fifty (or better) chances to beat Novak? :haha: What is it worth to assess "natural tennis ability" when one simply can't put it to work, nor he ever will? Can you see the level of frustration brought upon the poor Gasquet fans by "assessing natural tennis ability"? Now sod off.

rocketassist
01-29-2012, 07:26 PM
Aha, so now we disregard the mental aspect of the game so that in our non-biased :haha: analysis Murray would have roughly fifty-fifty (or better) chances to beat Novak? :haha: What is it worth to assess "natural tennis ability" when one simply can't put it to work, nor he ever will? Can you see the level of frustration brought upon the poor Gasquet fans by "assessing natural tennis ability"? Now sod off.

Nope, in fact I'm gonna piss you off even more.

I'm not disregarding it you arrogant twat, as it's obviously a massive part of what makes a champion and why one man has 5 slams and the other 0.

Gasquet's never given Djokovic anything to worry about, whereas Murray's not only won a few times, but pushed him to the absolute limit in some huge matches. Deny it all you want, but when he plays well, he bothers Djokovic in big matches. Doesn't beat him, cause Nole's a beast. Hats off, but it doesn't make it a gulf in tennis ability. Aside from the forehand (which is also a key) they're pretty well-matched.

NadalSharapova
01-29-2012, 07:28 PM
whatever, djokovic is FAR superior to murray in EVERY department

Murray is very good but djokovic is a tennis genius.

Farenhajt
01-29-2012, 07:31 PM
Nope, in fact I'm gonna piss you off even more.

I'm not disregarding it you arrogant twat, as it's obviously a massive part of what makes a champion and why one man has 5 slams and the other 0.

Gasquet's never given Djokovic anything to worry about, whereas Murray's not only won a few times, but pushed him to the absolute limit in some huge matches. Deny it all you want, but when he plays well, he bothers Djokovic in big matches. Doesn't beat him, cause Nole's a beast. Hats off, but it doesn't make it a gulf in tennis ability. Aside from the forehand (which is also a key) they're pretty well-matched.

To finish this idiocy: On some occasion I did say Murray could pull an Ivanišević/Schiavone (honorary slam title when the midlife crisis knocks on the door), but Lendl or no Lendl, he's as far from or close to a slam title as Novak and Rafa want him to be. Has no personal saying in the matter whatsoever (kinda sad, don't you think?). Period.

MrChopin
01-29-2012, 07:34 PM
The damage is also physical as well as psychological; Murray is older than Djokovic and has probably 12 months left of his life in which to win a slam.

:lol:

rocketassist
01-29-2012, 07:36 PM
To finish this idiocy: On some occasion I did say Murray could pull an Ivanišević/Schiavone (honorary slam title when the midlife crisis knocks on the door), but Lendl or no Lendl, he's as far from or close to a slam title as Novak and Rafa want him to be. Has no personal saying in the matter whatsoever (kinda sad, don't you think?). Period.

What?

I think he's a more awkward match up for him, and if he performs like he did in that semi final again, they'll have some fascinating contests. He certainly gives him more to think about with his two hander/use of slice than Rafito does, who moonballs and relies on Novak having an off day with his ballstriking to have a chance.

out_grinder
01-29-2012, 08:08 PM
To finish this idiocy: On some occasion I did say Murray could pull an Ivanišević/Schiavone (honorary slam title when the midlife crisis knocks on the door), but Lendl or no Lendl, he's as far from or close to a slam title as Novak and Rafa want him to be. Has no personal saying in the matter whatsoever (kinda sad, don't you think?). Period.

What an unpleasant bloke.

If Murray has no say in the matter, then Djokovic is one of the biggest idiots on the planet for not triple-bagelling Murray instead of consciously deciding to lose a couple of sets and dragging it out to 5 grueling hours thus making his chances of beating Rafa in the final much slimmer.

Remember folks, Nadal was trying to prey on a half-dead Djokovic today, therefore Nadal was made to look better than he would have if he faced the Djokovic Murray faced.

Sophocles
01-29-2012, 09:31 PM
Last year he turned up in the final, played all right for a few games, then at the first sign of adversity folded like a cheap tent barely getting the ball over the net thereafter, against a player he'd owned in their recent matches. This year he hit his strokes, including the forehand, with conviction & authority, taking a lead in the match & nearly finishing off a very dominant World No. 1 at his favourite slam. How anybody can regard this as anything but huge progress is beyond me. There are still things to work on - not least, learning to avoid EVER tanking a set in a slam semi again - but this was an impressive performance that bodes well for the future.

Right On
01-29-2012, 10:47 PM
He stepped it up and his chances are bigger now. He needs to continue on this path though and i'm not sure he'll do so. ~2-3 years ago Murray looked very good, better than Djoker and then he kind of faded.

syc23
01-29-2012, 11:25 PM
Last year he turned up in the final, played all right for a few games, then at the first sign of adversity folded like a cheap tent barely getting the ball over the net thereafter, against a player he'd owned in their recent matches. This year he hit his strokes, including the forehand, with conviction & authority, taking a lead in the match & nearly finishing off a very dominant World No. 1 at his favourite slam. How anybody can regard this as anything but huge progress is beyond me. There are still things to work on - not least, learning to avoid EVER tanking a set in a slam semi again - but this was an impressive performance that bodes well for the future.

About one of the more sensible and analytical posts I've seen without resorting to cliched drivel posted by the likes of LawrenceOfTennis :angel:

Murray is infinitely closer to winning slams than Berdych, Tsonga and Soderling. The 3 can hit anyone of the court on any given day but have yet to show consistency in reaching the latter stages of slams.

nastoff
01-29-2012, 11:54 PM
Consistency is what Murray's lacking in getting to the point where he'd challenge the other 3 for a slam title. He showed an improvement in this year's AO and surely his performance won't hurt his chances. His masters record shows that on shorter matches he has much more of an opportunity, so he has to get to a point where he can outlast the other 3 in long grueling matches coming on the back of a two-week effort. That's still his biggest challenge. Other than that he has the weapons to beat all of them, including Djokovic. He came closer in beating Djokovic than Nadal did. It's just that Djokovic finds this Herculean strength in the most adverse of circumstances to come back from the brink of defeat that mesmerizes his rivals. It happened to Federer twice and now to Nadal and Murray. However, I think Murray will come as the least damaged from it compared to the other two, because in my eyes he can control his emotions better and he has been in such situations on fewer occasions.
He needs to stay on track though and try to step it up one bit at the time.

Farenhajt
01-30-2012, 01:47 PM
What an unpleasant bloke.

If Murray has no say in the matter, then Djokovic is one of the biggest idiots on the planet for not triple-bagelling Murray instead of consciously deciding to lose a couple of sets and dragging it out to 5 grueling hours thus making his chances of beating Rafa in the final much slimmer.

Remember folks, Nadal was trying to prey on a half-dead Djokovic today, therefore Nadal was made to look better than he would have if he faced the Djokovic Murray faced.

Oh, now we put an equal sign between "to win one or more sets" and "to win a match"? What a wonderful false argument, sounding deep only to intellectually less endowed individuals (i.e. Murray fans).

Due to massive overdose of hope, poor Murraydom doesn't realize that it's all the same for the bloke either being 3 sets or 1 game away from beating Djokovic in a slam. It simply won't happen. Not on Novak's watch.

If and when Novak retires before Andy, or if stars align in a fashion similar to what Deaderer had in RG, then we can have another conversation.

piksi
01-30-2012, 02:16 PM
You could argue that the first set from testerday's final is the first set that Andy won in a GS final. Unfortunately, he won it for Rafa. For me as Novak fan the real final was the semifinal because that is where Novak was really pushed by someone who actually attacked him. If it wasn't for Andy, Novak would have never lost that first set yesterday and he would have won in straigths and that epic match would have never happened.

Additionally, until that SF I was more than sure that Andy will never win a GS because he didn't have the guts for it. That perception changed somewhat because although he won't be a favorite anywhere And under right circumstances could win an US open or AO.

Branimir
01-30-2012, 03:13 PM
But the question I have: How would Murray play in the final if he beat Nole? Murray proved that he can beat Nole when he feels no pressure. He proved it few times actually.

But Nole who won AO 2012 is not the same Nole who won AO 2011.

MIMIC
01-30-2012, 03:30 PM
It'll certainly be interesting to see how Murray responds.

Sophocles
01-30-2012, 03:37 PM
Watching the highlights from both matches you realise just how much better the semi was than the final, & how much better Djoker was moving and striking the ball in the semi. In the final he was far slower moving to his forehand side, & ended up hitting loads of squash shots instead of the heavily-spun, sharp-angled cross-court forehand with which he normally confounds Nadal, even after Nadal's best shots. Murray can hurt a reasonably fresh Djoker in ways Nadal simply can't.

MurrayMagic1
01-30-2012, 04:28 PM
Watching the highlights from both matches you realise just how much better the semi was than the final, & how much better Djoker was moving and striking the ball in the semi. In the final he was far slower moving to his forehand side, & ended up hitting loads of squash shots instead of the heavily-spun, sharp-angled cross-court forehand with which he normally confounds Nadal, even after Nadal's best shots. Murray can hurt a reasonably fresh Djoker in ways Nadal simply can't.

exactly the Semi was far better than the final. Rafa cant hurt Nole, only Andy can hurt him and possibly Fed. Rafa isnt aggressive enough. Andy will be the first man to beat Nole in 2012 :D I think

MurrayMagic1
01-30-2012, 04:29 PM
Watching the highlights from both matches you realise just how much better the semi was than the final, & how much better Djoker was moving and striking the ball in the semi. In the final he was far slower moving to his forehand side, & ended up hitting loads of squash shots instead of the heavily-spun, sharp-angled cross-court forehand with which he normally confounds Nadal, even after Nadal's best shots. Murray can hurt a reasonably fresh Djoker in ways Nadal simply can't.

exactly the Semi was far better than the final. Rafa cant hurt Nole, only Andy can hurt him and possibly Fed. Rafa isnt aggressive enough and his serve can let him down at times. Andy will be the first man to beat Nole in 2012 :D I think

Sound2k10
01-30-2012, 04:39 PM
Murray can't afford to walkabouts for the next two months, which I believe he won't. Lendl won't allow that. He needs to train hard with Lendl and I think he is only going to get better under his guidance, afterall look at the difference within a month. He should treat Indian Wells, Miami, Rome and Madrid in particular as opportunities to face Nadal and Djokovic to try out more aggressive styles of tennis and this should help going forward into the year. His chances at RG are slim and I doubt he is ready to take on Nadal and Djokovic in consecutive matches on clay yet.

zcess81
01-30-2012, 05:11 PM
The question isn't weather Murray can beat Nole or not. We all know he can, he's done it before (in masters events). The real question is whether he can beat Nole in a slam AND THEN follow that win by beating Fed/Nadal in the final. That is going to be very very difficult for Murray. Murray has to deal with not only one but three great players. Had Murray beaten Nole in semis, what would have been his odds against Rafa in the final? Slim, very slim indeed. Who on here truly believes that Murray has the mental strength even close to Nole/Rafa's? Is Murray capable of staying mentally calm in two 5 set matches against Rafa/Nole/Fed? I have my doubts, at least for now. Many are giving Lendl way too much credit. They've only been working together for few weeks and the only good thing was one semi final match against Nole. That's one match! Murray played as good as that years ago in USO against Nadal. We have to wait 8 months or so to truly be able to tell if Lendl made any difference to Murray's game. One match is no indication at all.