How do you know God said any of what it says he said in the bible? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

How do you know God said any of what it says he said in the bible?

2003
01-18-2012, 08:30 AM
This is not really a debate about the existence of God per say.

More a question.

If it says in the bible "God said this"..how can you know he did?

I mean anyone can write on a piece of paper what God said.

Its like, no one is perfect except God or Jesus, except neither wrote the bible.

So how can imperfect people write a perfect book.

Well they can of course. Under Gods guidance.

But how do you know they did?

If God isnt around or wont defend the Bible, then theres no real way of knowing. Even if he did appear before people, you can just insert your own things and say he said this or that.

Lopez
01-18-2012, 09:18 AM
Yes, you can't know. Matter of belief.

End of thread? :lol:

Kat_YYZ
01-18-2012, 09:22 AM
The vast majority of people couldn't read or write in those days. Stories were mostly passed around orally. For sure, it's easy for stories to get distorted that way.

I'm not sure about the Old Testament, but I took a course in university about the New Testament -- the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Three of the four are very similar and people probably think these guys got together to 'get their stories straight.' But there's plenty of historical evidence that they didn't and some didn't even live in the same era as the others (or there was some overlap, but one would've been a child when the other was an old man). It's not likely they read each other either, as there was no printing press at the time to reproduce writings, and no telecommunication. Christianity wasn't even a religion; these new concepts were still falling under the banner of Judaism. Some people wanting to take Judaism in a new direction based on the events of Jesus's life, others resisting the new movement. The full-on separation happened later.

Guess that doesn't really answer your question :p Just thought I'd post what I learned.

Lopez
01-18-2012, 09:39 AM
Continuing with NT lesson:

The names Matthew, Luke, Mark and John were given later; the gospels in truth are written by unknown writers, not by any disciples. Additionally, Luke and John have quite likely used Mark as a source. The first gospel was written around 60-70 AD and the last one around 100 AD.

There are plenty of inconsistensies in the stories across the board, though the broad story remains the same.

EliSter
01-18-2012, 09:41 AM
Thats why its called 'faith'...

Kat_YYZ
01-18-2012, 10:19 AM
Continuing with NT lesson:

The names Matthew, Luke, Mark and John were given later; the gospels in truth are written by unknown writers, not by any disciples. Additionally, Luke and John have quite likely used Mark as a source. The first gospel was written around 60-70 AD and the last one around 100 AD.

There are plenty of inconsistensies in the stories across the board, though the broad story remains the same.

yeah, that's right -- I forgot about that stuff. It has been a very long time since uni ;)

Also there are 'independent' records -- such as things written by Roman historians (who were not Jewish or "Christian" obviously) that support many Christian stories, though not really corroborating any "God said" quotes word for word.

Harmless
01-18-2012, 10:54 AM
The Bible, or any other religious text for that matter, isn't about truth, in its objective, perspective-free sense, it is about reinforcing a world view.
You should look at it that way, and see that your question is quite a moot point. ;)

Tulipe
01-18-2012, 11:08 AM
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. (Hebrews, 11:1)

You don't KNOW. You BELIEVE.

We're not talking nuclear reactions, there's no need for proof.

allpro
01-18-2012, 11:19 AM
asking about life’s most important questions on a tennis forum is foolish (especially mtf). there are plenty of resources online that can help you make an informed opinion about god, the bible, history, and science. here’s one from a biblical perspective....

http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-answers

/thread

Lopez
01-18-2012, 12:24 PM
asking about life’s most important questions on a tennis forum is foolish (especially mtf). there are plenty of resources online that can help you make an informed opinion about god, the bible, history, and science. here’s one from a biblical perspective....

http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-answers

/thread

You can't seriously suggest a full-on creationist BS-filled website? There are surely much better Christian websites out there.

grishotarian
01-18-2012, 12:28 PM
I was there and can confirm

buddyholly
01-18-2012, 02:02 PM
asking about life’s most important questions on a tennis forum is foolish (especially mtf). there are plenty of resources online that can help you make an informed opinion about god, the bible, history, and science.





What part of ''non'' do you not understand?

And as for your suggested website........... It is sad that anyone could consider that garbage as an aid to making an informed opinion.

Logical
01-18-2012, 03:49 PM
Do you question who your father is?No.you just believe.God is same.You believe.:wavey:

Har-Tru
01-18-2012, 04:23 PM
The Bible, or any other religious text for that matter, isn't about truth, in its objective, perspective-free sense, it is about reinforcing a world view.
You should look at it that way, and see that your question is quite a moot point. ;)

What kind of other truth is there?

In any case, that isn't accurate. The Bible makes extraordinary empirical claims that are of necessity either true or false. Did God create the universe in 6 days? Is that a metaphor, and he created it otherwise? Was Jesus God incarnate, and was he born of a virgin, performed miracles and rose from the dead? These questions have answers. Answers that are beyond the realm of subjectivity.

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. (Hebrews, 11:1)

You don't KNOW. You BELIEVE.

We're not talking nuclear reactions, there's no need for proof.

Of course there is need for proof! You are free to believe what you want, that is not the issue. But as soon as you are claiming what you believe to be true, then, my friend, you need proof, or else your claims are not to be taken as holding any truth.

This is really the key point: faith. We humans do not accept faith as a valid path to knowledge. With one exception: religion. If I told you my dog talks to me in scouse, you'd immediately demand proof. And I may not cop out by saying "oh but you don't need to KNOW, you BELIEVE".

Religion and God are no different. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

asking about life’s most important questions on a tennis forum is foolish (especially mtf). there are plenty of resources online that can help you make an informed opinion about god, the bible, history, and science. here’s one from a biblical perspective....

http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-answers

/thread

The creatonist site par excellence presented as a resource that can help people develop an informed opinion about history and science.

Damn MTF, you scary...

Do you question who your father is?No.you just believe.God is same.You believe.:wavey:

Really?? I mean, really???

Your assumption that your father is indeed your father is based on observation and reason. There are millions of men in the world that claim to be their son's fathers, and the vast majority of them are. Men marry women and show a distinct inclination not to share that woman with any other men. This has evolutionary grounds, and is observed throughout the animal kingdom, including in humans. Sons tend to resemble the men who claim to be their fathers. They tend to inherit medical conditions from their fathers, etc. These are observable facts. Not to mention that today, thanks to DNA, it is actually possible to prove without a reasonable doubt that your father is indeed your father.

Case God. We have no instances of Gods creating universes in 6 days. We have no instances of anybody performing miracles, or being born of a virgin, or rising from the dead. We have no observation of an almighty consciousness capable of listening to the requests of millions of people at the same time, and answering them. In fact, all these things seem to radically go against any observable evidence we have about the universe. The hypothesis that God exists is not based on observation, it is not based on reason and it is not based on evidence.

Your analogy doesn't even begin to make sense.

Pirata.
01-18-2012, 04:41 PM
We're not talking nuclear reactions, there's no need for proof.

:facepalm:

Do you question who your father is?No.you just believe.God is same.You believe.:wavey:

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Sauletekis
01-18-2012, 07:24 PM
:facepalm:



:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

I second this...

Tulipe
01-18-2012, 07:29 PM
Can't we just make it simple... If you believe, you don't need proof because you are sure that it's true. If you don't believe, why do you even ask? Just be sure it's not true and it shouldn't bother you.

samanosuke
01-18-2012, 07:30 PM
I am often talking with him and he isn't the type of guy who would lie

TMJordan
01-18-2012, 07:32 PM
Some dude got ripped on LSD and wrote a crazy story.

Tulipe
01-18-2012, 07:34 PM
Some dude got ripped on LSD and wrote a crazy story.

Only if the Bible was written after 1938 :P

Har-Tru
01-18-2012, 07:41 PM
Can't we just make it simple... If you believe, you don't need proof because you are sure that it's true.

Like I said, you're welcome to believe whatever you feel like believing.

If you don't believe, why do you even ask? Just be sure it's not true and it shouldn't bother you.

What did I ask?

As it happens though, it does bother me. Humans are social beings, and what people believe has an effect on what they do in the society we all live in, so it affects me.

Superstitious mythology and unsupported beliefs account for a way of thinking that is limited and limiting. No human advancements have been achieved by praying, nearly all have been achieved through the rational, observational, experimental and evidence-based scientific method. I care about the future of my species, and I can't be oblivious to the fact that religion and religious belief are, as they have always been, an obstacle to human progress.

Orka_n
01-18-2012, 08:20 PM
Yes, you can't know. Matter of belief.Yup.

buddyholly
01-18-2012, 08:21 PM
Do you question who your father is?No.you just believe.God is same.You believe.:wavey:

Not the best analogy. You have dealt a crippling blow to your own logic.

Nowadays there is DNA for that, if you wish. It is being done every day in the courts to determine the truth. It is illogical to ''just believe'' when the truth is so easily available.

You are limiting your knowledge and deduction to what was known 2000 years ago. Most of us have moved on from there.

Har-Tru
01-18-2012, 08:35 PM
Yup.

So it's basically like unicorns, then.

Orka_n
01-18-2012, 08:48 PM
So it's basically like unicorns, then.You are beyond childish and I assume you know it. Yes, it's like unicorns, whatever. Stop provoking believers with this bating crap already.

Kat_YYZ
01-18-2012, 09:07 PM
It's not just a matter of faith -- that's why the OP said this thread isn't about 'is there or isn't there a God.' This thread kind of supposes that there is.

So, what to do about contradictions. For example the United Church recognizes same-sex marriage, while other Christian denominations do not. Someone will quote a passage from the Bible and claim it's proof that "God hates gays", while another person will pull a different passage to prove that he doesn't. Same with dozens of other issues: are you allowed to have sex for pleasure, or only procreation; is divorce allowed, etc, etc.

There's a big difference between Old Testament and New Testament, with OT messages from God coming from clouds and burning bushes and what not, and NT messages coming from Jesus. Some say that Jesus's teachings "did away" with some Old Testament stuff, while others insist that the two are compatible.

You can't just say 'have faith': have faith in what? In who's interpretation? It's a valid question.

Gagsquet
01-18-2012, 10:28 PM
So it's basically like unicorns, then.


http://cdn.googlieyes.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/ralph-unicorn.jpg

leng jai
01-18-2012, 10:31 PM
B-nard is the living embodiment of God

Black Adam
01-18-2012, 11:35 PM
Who is meant to have written Genesis? I have always wondered.

Johnny Groove
01-19-2012, 12:24 AM
You don't know?

Existence, the universe, it is all God's high school science fair project :shrug:

ballbasher101
01-19-2012, 03:16 AM
I don't want to offend but the Bible is surely the best written piece of fantasy ever. I myself prefer the Lord of the Rings though :devil:. Religion is dangerous. People killing in the name of god :confused:. It's sad that people still turn to a useless imaginary father figure. Science can't answer everything but it sure does try unlike religion which answers nothing. People who worship do so not due to love but due to fear.

Har-Tru
01-19-2012, 03:59 AM
You are beyond childish and I assume you know it. Yes, it's like unicorns, whatever. Stop provoking believers with this bating crap already.

Believe it or not (har har), I am not being childish. I mean it. If you think there is a difference between belief in God and believe in unicorns, I'd be more than willing to hear why.

I might be provoking, but it is serious debate that I'm trying to provoke.

Who is meant to have written Genesis? I have always wondered.

The first five books (the Pentateuch or Torah) are traditionally attributed to Moses.

Sham Kay
01-19-2012, 11:26 AM
There's no need for proof. Some long dead rag wearing ancient guy told us so in a book he wrote along with his chums.

It is why my faith in the arrival of the tiny green space chimp pirates remains unshaken.

Sham Kay
01-19-2012, 11:30 AM
I don't want to offend but the Bible is surely the best written piece of fantasy ever. I myself prefer the Lord of the Rings though :devil:. Religion is dangerous. People killing in the name of god :confused:. It's sad that people still turn to a useless imaginary father figure. Science can't answer everything but it sure does try unlike religion which answers nothing. People who worship do so not due to love but due to fear.

I suggest you swap usernames with Logical.

Harmless
01-19-2012, 01:41 PM
What kind of other truth is there?

Isn't it a general view that there are many different kinds of truths? Though I do sort of ascribe this to the limitations of language and its logic, but still. For some sort of ultimate truth, or whatever, you would need a witness without a perspective, which is both a physical and a conceptual impossibility. [/semantics :o]

Echoes
01-19-2012, 02:14 PM
I don't want to offend but the Bible is surely the best written piece of fantasy ever. I myself prefer the Lord of the Rings though :devil:. Religion is dangerous. People killing in the name of god :confused:. It's sad that people still turn to a useless imaginary father figure. Science can't answer everything but it sure does try unlike religion which answers nothing. People who worship do so not due to love but due to fear.

By Jove, MTF is really the lair of the last Communists on earth. :eek:

Har-Tru
01-19-2012, 02:56 PM
Isn't it a general view that there are many different kinds of truths? Though I do sort of ascribe this to the limitations of language and its logic, but still. For some sort of ultimate truth, or whatever, you would need a witness without a perspective, which is both a physical and a conceptual impossibility. [/semantics :o]

Semantics indeed, and more. ;)

I think it is not debatable that an ultimate truth is an impossibility, as there will always be a way out. "But what if all of this is a computer simulation from some distant advanced civilisation?" "But what if I actually don't exist, and I'm just part of some other being's dreams??" And so on and so forth.

However, it is intellectually dishonest to surrender analytical judgement because of such uninspiring philosophical cop-out. We humans don't do that. Inasmuch as we can say we know anything to be true, we know that Vientiane is the capital of Laos, that fish breathe through their gills and that if you have two muffins and you buy two more, you have four muffins. There are reasons why we say we know those things, and they invariably boil down to empirical observation and experimentally contrasted evidence.

I can't, thus, agree with your statement where you say:

The Bible, or any other religious text for that matter, isn't about truth, in its objective, perspective-free sense, it is about reinforcing a world view.

The Bible, as I said, makes claims that are objective in nature and not bound to interpretation. It claims, for instance, that the individuals of the species Homo Sapiens Sapiens are, uniquely among all the species of earth, able to survive their biological death. Either that is true, or it is false.

And inasmuch as we can say we know anything to be true, there is no reason to think human beings can survive their biological death. It is, therefore, intellectually dishonest to believe they do.

Har-Tru
01-19-2012, 03:02 PM
By Jove, MTF is really the lair of the last Communists on earth. :eek:

I'm beginning to suspect you were cryonised somewhere in Texas in the early 1950s and then revived in Wallonia decades later.

Sapeod
01-19-2012, 05:15 PM
Because the Bible says so, obviously :rolleyes:

Seriously, I really don't understand how people try and make this statement as if it's proof. The Bible says so, so it must be true, right? God, religion really is a load of crap.

Logical
01-21-2012, 06:53 PM
Because the Bible says so, obviously :rolleyes:

Seriously, I really don't understand how people try and make this statement as if it's proof. The Bible says so, so it must be true, right? God, religion really is a load of crap.You have no logic.

Har-Tru
01-21-2012, 07:06 PM
You have no logic.

Whereas you on the other hand...

Logic is the opposite of religion.

Logical
01-21-2012, 07:14 PM
Whereas you on the other hand...

Logic is the opposite of religion.Religion is method to live life.Questioning about religion is maybe wrong:confused:If bible was not written, people will not follow religion and live life in wrong direction.So bible is only a guide?

Logical
01-21-2012, 07:21 PM
Not the best analogy. You have dealt a crippling blow to your own logic.

Nowadays there is DNA for that, if you wish. It is being done every day in the courts to determine the truth. It is illogical to ''just believe'' when the truth is so easily available.

You are limiting your knowledge and deduction to what was known 2000 years ago. Most of us have moved on from there.DNA machines and scientists can be in delusion.2000 years ago a fool said that sun revolves around earth.People believed it.:wavey:After 2000 years from this year people can joke about DNA in 2012.We maybe not know what is true.What scientists say about cells can be understand by only other scientists,but not people like us:help:So it is hard to find out truth.

Sham Kay
01-21-2012, 07:40 PM
You have no logic.

Religion is method to live life.Questioning about religion is maybe wrong:confused:If bible was not written, people will not follow religion and live life in wrong direction.So bible is only a guide?

DNA machines and scientists can be in delusion.2000 years ago a fool said that sun revolves around earth.People believed it.:wavey:After 2000 years from this year people can joke about DNA in 2012.We maybe not know what is true.What scientists say about cells can be understand by only other scientists,but not people like us:help:So it is hard to find out truth.

------->

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Cloudygirl
01-21-2012, 08:08 PM
:facepalm:



:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

need way more facepalms.

scary

Har-Tru
01-21-2012, 08:50 PM
Religion is method to live life.Questioning about religion is maybe wrong:confused:If bible was not written, people will not follow religion and live life in wrong direction.So bible is only a guide?

DNA machines and scientists can be in delusion.2000 years ago a fool said that sun revolves around earth.People believed it.:wavey:After 2000 years from this year people can joke about DNA in 2012.We maybe not know what is true.What scientists say about cells can be understand by only other scientists,but not people like us:help:So it is hard to find out truth.

http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs3/1246797_o.gif

buddyholly
01-21-2012, 09:49 PM
DNA machines and scientists can be in delusion.2000 years ago a fool said that sun revolves around earth.People believed it.:wavey:After 2000 years from this year people can joke about DNA in 2012.We maybe not know what is true.What scientists say about cells can be understand by only other scientists,but not people like us:help:So it is hard to find out truth.
Oh, dear me! You really ought to change your name.

PS, I am a scientist.

swisht4u
01-22-2012, 12:41 AM
It's a little bit scary to think that when you die then it's over.
The bible solved that problem.

The bible makes us feel special, we can go to heaven if were good so that's very appealing. We don't know what will happen there though, could be we're tormented forever.

What about the people who never heard about the bible and salvation for all those years? They never had the chance to find out the rules to get to heaven. How could god forget about them?

Why just come down once?

Then there's Muhammad, this guy had messengers or angels I'm told. Probably just a nutcase with delusions I'm guessing, but it was enough to get people to buy into it like they did with the bible.

That just shows people will believe what they want without really knowing.

2003
01-22-2012, 06:56 PM
It also makes it infinately easier to explain the concept of death to young children when a loved one dies. Imagine having to tell a child once you die thats it. This way they get to see them again (though its always assumed everyone goes to heaven), and believe theyre in a better place.

As well, it also deals with lonliness quite well. No matter who lets you down, how alone you are, God always loves you and will always listen (yet never talks back). Kind of like a socially acceptable imaginary friend.

Filo V.
06-02-2012, 12:33 PM
The Bible is man-made story book, and nothing more.

Filo V.
06-02-2012, 12:34 PM
And yes, it was necessary to bump this thread given all the bullshit I read through it, a lot like thinking the Bible is something outside of a historical story book.

Gagsquet
06-02-2012, 12:36 PM
Forgot about Logical :lol: ACC champ material if he was posting regularly.