Who do you think is worst match-up for Rafa on HC? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Who do you think is worst match-up for Rafa on HC?

romismak
01-04-2012, 10:19 PM
HC is major surface, and on clay he doesnīt have any bad match-up besides lately Nole. I know there are many HC courts like slow outdoor HC, low bouncing indoor or medium, but just generally on HC who do you have the feeling is worst match-up for Nadal? My picks in no order just choose and all those guys i mean when they are playing high level of tennis.

Djokovic - i think donīt need to write too much, we have seen 2011 and he always was tough for Rafa on HC even before.

Davydenko - playing fast, taking the ball early, consistent machine like, great return, 6-1 H2H on HC with Rafa

Del Potro - has the power game, huge FH to blast you from the court and just can break any deffense with his groundstrokes.

Tsonga - great serve, FH, net game and explosivness in rallies to take down Rafa.

Big servers - i just give in one group guys like Ivo, Isner, Ljubicic, donīt want to make everybody separate, just guys with the serve to bother Rafa not to be broken force him to TBīs and Rafa doesnīt like to play them.

TBkeeper
01-04-2012, 10:22 PM
Davydenko is his worst match-up for sure on HC!

Saberq
01-04-2012, 10:26 PM
I think that the guy who is his worst match up and the best player on HC is the answer

HKz
01-04-2012, 10:30 PM
For sure it is between Davydenko and Djokovic.

American278
01-04-2012, 10:36 PM
I think that the guy who is his worst match up and the best player on HC is the answer

no roger is not rafas toughest opponent;)

misty1
01-04-2012, 10:39 PM
going with davy but its close between him and djokovic

Saberq
01-04-2012, 10:40 PM
no roger is not rafas toughest opponent;)

Roger was the best HC player...Roger is the best HC player of all time but Novak is now undisputed on that surface...

JediFed
01-04-2012, 10:46 PM
Remind me what surface is WTF played on? :angel:

Nadal's worst matchup, probably Youzhny who's going to beat him in straights. He beat Nadal 6-1 6-0. :o

BodyServe
01-04-2012, 11:03 PM
Where is Soderling on the poll?? Surely he is worse a matchup than Karlovic, Ljubicic, Isner and even maybe Tsonga.

Remind me what surface is WTF played on? :angel:


Problem about WTF is not "what surface" but when is it played, when everyone is spend basically.

Naudio Spanlatine
01-04-2012, 11:10 PM
The one whose name is Nalby, Fedex, Nolel, Baldy

Henry Chinaski
01-05-2012, 12:05 AM
seeing as davydenko is an ex-pro, it has to be djok

Sunset of Age
01-05-2012, 12:08 AM
Davydenko is an ex-parrot by now, so I'd say Djokovic and Federer.

Topspindoctor
01-05-2012, 12:11 AM
Davydenko is an ex-parrot by now, so I'd say Djokovic and Federer.

*indoors

Nadal owns Olderer on slow-medium outdoor HC...

Orka_n
01-05-2012, 12:16 AM
Yep, it used to be Davydenko.

Nowadays it's Novak. Whenever Federer is on he will probably win too, but that's more to do with his overall skill than him being a good match-up.

Arakasi
01-05-2012, 02:42 AM
Del Potro.

Naudio Spanlatine
01-05-2012, 03:05 AM
agree.

Saberq
01-05-2012, 03:08 AM
agree.

on what?

Guest12315544
01-05-2012, 03:09 AM
At the moment about everyone of the top players are a problem for him on HC :sad:

tripwires
01-05-2012, 03:16 AM
Djokovic for sure.

Naudio Spanlatine
01-05-2012, 03:30 AM
on what?

delpo beating him on hardcourt

Saberq
01-05-2012, 03:35 AM
delpo beating him on hardcourt

I am sorry is that a joke?Delpo is not even top 5 on hardcourt these days .......and Rafa kinda owns him now

tektonac
01-05-2012, 03:37 AM
almagro.

Jimnik
01-05-2012, 03:42 AM
Bob Bryan

Just give him the chance.

Mountaindewslave
01-05-2012, 03:42 AM
At the moment about everyone of the top players are a problem for him on HC :sad:

new season and fresh things! don't mistake Nadal's poor end to 2011 as anything to really take note of..... the only one I think he really still fears playing is DJokovic

Mystique
01-05-2012, 03:55 AM
Djokovic is. Has always been even before 2011.

Davydenko at his very best can give Nadal fits on HC but not like Djokovic can.

Naudio Spanlatine
01-05-2012, 04:04 AM
I am sorry is that a joke?Delpo is not even top 5 on hardcourt these days .......and Rafa kinda owns him now

have you not seen him in 2009, i mean i know thats a long time ago but the guy was at his very best against rafa, and im saying this as a true rafa fan, not only was he at his best, the guy was pinning him the whole time behind the baseline, their was nothing rafa can do, once delpo was red hot, the only chance rafa had was to hope for an unforced error and/or a mental clapse

Chirag
01-05-2012, 04:28 AM
Djokovic and Davydenko

SaFed2005
01-05-2012, 04:44 AM
Djokoic, Davydenko and Nalbandian (not the current version obviously)
are the top 3 worst match-ups.

RafaNadal2012!!!
01-05-2012, 04:45 AM
Davydenko or Djokovic, It's very close, but I give the slight edge to Nikolay

m9m9m9m9m9
01-05-2012, 04:55 AM
talking straightly about matchup, this gotta be Davydenko

swisht4u
01-05-2012, 05:20 AM
I would give it to Davy but he's not been playing well for awhile so gave it to Djokovic.

swisht4u
01-05-2012, 05:26 AM
have you not seen him in 2009, i mean i know thats a long time ago but the guy was at his very best against rafa, and im saying this as a true rafa fan, not only was he at his best, the guy was pinning him the whole time behind the baseline, their was nothing rafa can do, once delpo was red hot, the only chance rafa had was to hope for an unforced error and/or a mental clapse

Yes, DelPo in that late 2009 form was especially tough for Nadal.

It'll be the same way if he gets near that kind of form again.

abraxas21
01-05-2012, 06:00 AM
djokovic

then federer (why isnt he in the poll btw?)

finishingmove
01-05-2012, 06:13 AM
well i voted for del potro

MIMIC
01-05-2012, 06:17 AM
EDIT: I dunno. On a good day, Davydenko & Djokovic could both stomp the crap out of Nadal with bagels and breadsticks.

Ibracadabra
01-05-2012, 06:23 AM
youzhny is in the mix also for sure

Pirata.
01-05-2012, 07:53 AM
If the question isn't specifically asking "who is the current worst match-up" then assuming it means overall and you have to give the edge to Kolya.

samanosuke
01-05-2012, 08:16 AM
These guys aren't a bad match ups for nadal . a bad match up is someone who bothers you particularly with something in his game . nadal is bothered with every right hander with a solid backhand . it's better question against who his one dimension doesn't work very well . how is possible that nole is a bad match up for nadal when was nadal winning almost by 10 their H2H . bad match up are Becker - Edberg, Fed - Nadal or Krajicek - Sampras kind of stuffs

arm
01-05-2012, 09:22 AM
These guys aren't a bad match ups for nadal . a bad match up is someone who bothers you particularly with something in his game . nadal is bothered with every right hander with a solid backhand . it's better question against who his one dimension doesn't work very well . how is possible that nole is a bad match up for nadal when was nadal winning almost by 10 their H2H . bad match up are Becker - Edberg, Fed - Nadal or Krajicek - Sampras kind of stuffs

Bad match up on hard courts. When did Rafa lead Nole by 10 on HC? :scratch:

samanosuke
01-05-2012, 09:30 AM
There is no thing such a bad match up on one type of court . Or it is a bad match up anywhere or it isn't a bad match . For some time we'll have a bad match for one particular hard court event

arm
01-05-2012, 09:33 AM
There is no thing such a bad match up on one type of court . Or it is a bad match up anywhere or it isn't a bad match . For some time we'll have a bad match for one particular hard court event

Are you trolling or being serious? Because I took for a smart guy, what you just said is not very smart. :shrug: :scratch:

Gillouthe best
01-05-2012, 09:35 AM
Nikolay, altough Djokovic has been able to beat a better version of Nadal. Davy defeated Nadal mostly at the end of 2009/beggining of 2010, when Rafa was At his worst level in years[ went winless against Top-8 from Madrid 2009 to Rome 2010, nearly a year].

samanosuke
01-05-2012, 09:48 AM
Are you trolling or being serious? Because I took for a smart guy, what you just said is not very smart. :shrug: :scratch:

I am dumb when i can't get it clearly . So on your logic till this year Nadal was a bad match up for nole on clay but now it isn't anymore ? So till this year Novak was leading their hard court H2H 7-5 and is it nadal some kind of hard court Goat , won 5 USOs and 5 AOs so it would be unexpected that some djokovic had the edge in their HC meetings ? Don't know how do you see a bad match up but for me a definition of a bad match is even when you are doing poorly, confidence is low you have a opponent or two against whom you are playing out of your mind and rebuilding your confidence . and out form, mentally broken guys are not doing well against nadal

arm
01-05-2012, 09:53 AM
I am dumb when i can't get it clearly . So on your logic till this year Nadal was a bad match up for nole on clay but now it isn't anymore ? So till this year Novak was leading their hard court H2H 7-5 and is it nadal some kind of hard court Goat , won 5 USOs and 5 AOs so it would be unexpected that some djokovic had the edge in their HC meetings ? Don't know how do you see a bad match up but for me a definition of a bad match is even when you are doing poorly, confidence is low you have a opponent or two against whom you are playing out of your mind and rebuilding your confidence . and out form, mentally broken guys are not doing well against nadal

Rafa is obviously still a bad match up for Nole on clay. And you didn't hear me say that Nole is a bad match up for Rafa on HC, did you?

My first post was to remind you that we are not talking about h2h everywhere, it's specifically on HC. In my second post I just disagreed with your statement that there is no such thing as a bad match up on a given surface.

ossie
01-05-2012, 10:07 AM
tomic

samanosuke
01-05-2012, 10:10 AM
Rafa is obviously still a bad match up for Nole on clay. And you didn't hear me say that Nole is a bad match up for Rafa on HC, did you?

My first post was to remind you that we are not talking about h2h everywhere, it's specifically on HC. In my second post I just disagreed with your statement that there is no such thing as a bad match up on a given surface.

I hear you but don't agree . last year isn't a measure because nole was a bad match up for anyone . that's why i point out this 7-5 before this season, I don't see this as a surprise or unexpected, nadal just isn't that good HC player so he can have the clear edge over the guys that he is owning on clay . if you are a bad match up for nadal on HC you should have won more than 3 sets or so in first 10 meetings on clay against him like djokovic did ? look at Fed vs Nadal match up . Fed struggles everywhere against him, he was loosing to nadal but at the same time he was beating easily guys to whom was nadal loosing . Fed has 9 HC slams and the most hard court titles in history of the game , nadal has 2 slams but leads their outdoor H2H 4-1 . this i see as a bad match up

arm
01-05-2012, 10:18 AM
Ok, you have a different definition of bad match up. Fair enough, but I don't see how your definition excludes the possibility of bad match ups on a given surface. :shrug:

Davydenko and Nadal's h2h is a good argument. Look at their h2h: 6-4, would you say Kolya is a bad match up for Rafa in general? a +2 difference is minimal. :shrug: Yet Kolya has won 6 out 7 times they have played on hard. This has got to make Kolya a bad match up on hard for Rafa.... regardless of your definition of bad match up.

samanosuke
01-05-2012, 10:29 AM
Ok, you have a different definition of bad match up. Fair enough, but I don't see how your definition excludes the possibility of bad match ups on a given surface. :shrug:

Davydenko and Nadal's h2h is a good argument. Look at their h2h: 6-4, would you say Kolya is a bad match up for Rafa in general? a +2 difference is minimal. :shrug: Yet Kolya has won 6 out 7 times they have played on hard. This has got to make Kolya a bad match up on hard for Rafa.... regardless of your definition of bad match up.

and this Kolya thing . We can agree that Davydenko is playing kind of game or is insanely good or insanely bad, there is no middle, he isn't the guy who can play good enough for the win against decent players, or demolishes somebody or loses . and they were playing each others mainly in semis or finals, and Kolya so deep in tournament means he is playing great and when Kolya plays great don't see many guys beating him ( just look at his finals score , the best from active players ), nadal surely isn't one of them . at the end nadal's only victory was in RR at master cup . like i said a bad match up for me is when you are mainly struggling but have few rescue opponents and this H2H doesn't show this

Saberq
01-05-2012, 11:44 AM
Del Potro is an overrated player that got a Slam because Fed choked ......Novak and Fed if he plays well

nalbyfan
01-05-2012, 12:37 PM
Nalby and Davydenko for sure

mooncreek
01-05-2012, 07:44 PM
Djokovic is the toughest for Rafa on any surface right now. Ignoring that factor...

Big guys in general bug Rafa so I picked the one who has the most complete game of that bunch: del Potro. He showed at Davis Cup he's able to play even with Rafa on delPo's weaker surface. He's shown in the past that he can blast Rafa off the court on HC so I picked him.

Naudio Spanlatine
01-05-2012, 07:55 PM
ok my tough scare for rafa: Djoker and Delpo:scared: :bolt:

samanosuke
01-05-2012, 08:36 PM
great mtf logic . if somebody beating somebody is just because of a bad match up, not because he is a better player on this surface . kudos to mtf

Johnny Groove
01-05-2012, 08:42 PM
Clearly Djokovic, but we'll see if 2011 was a flash in the pan, since Rafa dominated that rivalry pre 2011.

Davydenko clearly owns him on hard, but Kolya seems finished, injury.

Tsonga-Nadal is always going to be 50-50 on hard court.

Delpo I am worried about the most. When healthy and in full flight, he is a bad matchup for everyone. Even played Rafa close on Davis Cup clay in Spain.

Karlovic, eh, maybe in best of 3, but at a slam, Rafa has the edge for sure.

Isner and Ljubo the same.

Nalbandian is done basically, and Murray has beaten Nadal on hard court, but always chokes the big matches in Slam SF vs. Nadal.

acionescu
01-05-2012, 08:45 PM
His slice :o

samanosuke
01-05-2012, 08:46 PM
I would like to see in form Raonic against Nadal . Could be a trashing

Naudio Spanlatine
01-05-2012, 08:55 PM
Del Potro is an overrated player that got a Slam because Fed choked ......Novak and Fed if he plays well

No hes not:rolleyes:

Saberq
01-05-2012, 09:04 PM
Djokovic was still beating Rafa on HC before 2011

samanosuke
01-05-2012, 09:06 PM
So the thread can be closed with the conclusion that there is no better HC player than nadal , just he was unlucky with bad match ups

Matt01
01-05-2012, 09:19 PM
I'd say Davydenko and Djokovic.


djokovic

then federer (why isnt he in the poll btw?)


Because he isn't a bad match-up for Nadal. :spit: It's the other way round.

Matt01
01-05-2012, 09:19 PM
I would like to see in form Raonic against Nadal . Could be a trashing


For Raonic, yes.

tommyg6
01-05-2012, 09:22 PM
I voted other who is James Blake. I remember Blake used to blast Rafa off the court with his big forehand. back in the day of course.

samanosuke
01-05-2012, 09:22 PM
Living to see that :lol:

samanosuke
01-05-2012, 09:23 PM
I voted other who is James Blake. I remember Blake used to blast Rafa off the court with his big forehand. back in the day of course.

good call . those were the days, nadal wasn't knowing what is hitting him

samanosuke
01-05-2012, 09:24 PM
btw why doding isn't in the pool ? too big balls ?

Naudio Spanlatine
01-05-2012, 09:59 PM
because hes a useless topic:angel: :nerner:

romismak
01-05-2012, 10:26 PM
So leaders in poll are Djokovic and Davydenko. I must say when i wrote worst match-up it doesnīt mean it is bad match-up, but in case of Davydenko i think he is for example, but worst mean from anybody on the tour who simply is worst for Rafa to play with his kind of game. Every 2 players between each other have some match-up so who is worst for Rafa among all players, it doesnīt mean really bad match-up.

I choose HC, because on clay there is hard to judge since Rafa is so dominant there historically and has game that suits for clay. Grass as surface is too short, not many matches between players, so hard to tell, generally we can say anyone with big serve and agressive game, net game could be dangerous for Rafa on grass. But HC is major surface with many variants, like slow outdoor, fast outdoor, indoor low bouncing. I choose HC, because of this and also i think surface is important for match-ups.

Clearly we can see this by Roger-Rafa, generally it is known he is bad match-up for Roger, but when they play indoors you donīt feel that way, you donīt see those Rafaīs advantages there, so surface-or conditions matter for sure. The same is with Davydenko, i canīt imagine him to have some advantage on grass or clay, but on HC - any kind of HC he can neutralize Rafaīs game and be the one with advantage. The difference is clearly surface. HC has true bounce, grass and clay have unexpected bounce. And i wrote in my first post that i am talking about players when they are all playing high level of tennis, nobody is expecting now Davydenko to beat Rafa on HC, but if he would be in form i think most people would put him before their match in position as favorit to win that match.

Topspindoctor
01-05-2012, 11:55 PM
I would like to see in form Raonic against Nadal . Could be a trashing

Nadal always beats one dimensional all serve clowns with no footwork, so I dunno what you're talking about.

Johnny Groove
01-05-2012, 11:55 PM
tomic

:spit:

Sophocles
01-06-2012, 11:03 AM
Obviously Djoker is a tough match-up & also a better player (on hard courts), although given that you might expect his H2H to be even better against Nadal. Judging by their records, Davydenko is not a better player on hard courts, but nonetheless has a dominant 6-1 H2H against Nadal. This suggests Davy is a particularly bad match-up.

Super Djoker
01-06-2012, 11:47 PM
The head to head for Rafa and del po on hard courts alone is 3 a piece! At the minute it is djokovic

nalbyfan
01-07-2012, 12:26 PM
Now clown Monfils can be a bad match up in Doha ...

Sonja1989
01-07-2012, 12:31 PM
Sorry OP but no matter how many Nadal thread you open, Djokovic will be the winner of poll. ;) That's clear in every circumstance Djokovic is the hardest for him.

Ash86
01-07-2012, 12:42 PM
Obviously Djoker is a tough match-up & also a better player (on hard courts), although given that you might expect his H2H to be even better against Nadal. Judging by their records, Davydenko is not a better player on hard courts, but nonetheless has a dominant 6-1 H2H against Nadal. This suggests Davy is a particularly bad match-up.

The H2H is 6-1 on hardcourts (6-4 overall, with Nadal's other 3 victories on clay). Novak's H2H on hardcourt is 10-5 so the difference is still 5 matches.

Difficult to say who is worse - Djokovic is a bad match up on all surfaces whereas Davydenko is only a HC problem. Hope they meet a few times this year so Nadal can make that H2H better - only needs 2 wins to even it up - you'd think he'd get past the current Nikolai at least. ;)

Saberq
01-07-2012, 01:00 PM
Djokovic is a worst match up for Nadal then Denko and a better HC player

Poirot123
01-07-2012, 06:28 PM
It used to be Davydenko. But as he hasn't bothered playing tennis since AO 2010 QF first set, I'd say Djokovic.