Kim Jong-Il is dead [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Kim Jong-Il is dead

Action Jackson
12-19-2011, 02:12 AM
Thought this was a joke, but the "Great Leader" has died and North Korean News have reported.

Looks like it's true.

Smoke944
12-19-2011, 02:13 AM
Thought it was a joke, as well. Kind of a shocker.

Action Jackson
12-19-2011, 02:15 AM
Bin Laden and Gadaffi as well this year. That's the hat trick.

selyoink
12-19-2011, 02:34 AM
It will be fascinating to see what happens to the regime.

Action Jackson
12-19-2011, 02:40 AM
North Korea's Kim Jong-il has died. Lil Kim is aboard People's Air Force One where she will take the oath of office.

Mugabe really can't be too far away.

38YWB8iX7OY

selyoink
12-19-2011, 02:49 AM
Mugabe really can't be too far away.

Nah, that prick will probably live forever.

ExcaliburII
12-19-2011, 03:21 AM
We will never ever know how he died, they already have a crap version, but i am pretty sure he was killed. Could be a good day for the world, lets see what happens.

buddyholly
12-19-2011, 03:25 AM
Reminds me what Christopher Hitchens said to Sean Hannity when Hannity tried to make the case for the existence of an all-seeing, all-knowing God. "Sounds like North Korea".

Unfortunately, apart from a few days of spectacular parades, I see little change for the people there.

buddyholly
12-19-2011, 03:27 AM
We will never ever know how he died, they already have a crap version, but i am pretty sure he was killed. Could be a good day for the world, lets see what happens.

That is interesting, but I think he had a heart problem. If he was killed, then his son would not succeed - unless the son did it, maybe.

Action Jackson
12-19-2011, 03:40 AM
That is interesting, but I think he had a heart problem. If he was killed, then his son would not succeed - unless the son did it, maybe.

He had been ill for a while.

abraxas21
12-19-2011, 03:41 AM
things won't change

but yanks shouldn't gloat much considering (a) their own leaders, and (b) the fact that kim pardoned a couple of a american spies who ilegally entered NK right after a pretty 'persuassive' telephone call by clinton

ibreak4coffee
12-19-2011, 03:42 AM
I'm surprised the regime admitted his death publicly at all rather than trot out lookalikes for the foreseeable future.

So is the famous Kim Jong-Il movie collection going on eBay now?

fast_clay
12-19-2011, 03:42 AM
pffft... dude is a modern day elvis.. he will never die...

allpro
12-19-2011, 03:49 AM
there must be alot of weeping and wailing going on in n. korea if his father's death is any indicator....
5zYsUqAYg6c


my condolences, fast_clay :sadface:

Action Jackson
12-19-2011, 03:50 AM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/8292848/The-Incredible-Kim-Jong-il-and-his-Amazing-Achievements.html

The Incredible Kim Jong-il and his Amazing Achievements

Known to his people variously as The Supreme Leader, the Dear Leader, Our Father, the General, Lodestar of the 21st Century or Eternal President, Kim Jong-il has been credited with a mind-boggling series of achievements.

* Even before his birth, the future leader of North Korea was triggering miracles. Official biographers say his birth in a cabin on the slopes of Baekdu Mountain in February 1942 was foretold by a swallow and heralded by a double rainbow. When he was born, a new star appeared in the night sky.

* The first time he picked up a golf club, in 1994, Kim reportedly shot a 38-under par round on North Korea's only golf course, including 11 holes-in-one. He then decided to retire from the sport for ever.

* Kim has the ability to alter the weather simply through the power of thought.

* The fledgling leader was a genius as an infant, with official North Korean biographies stating that he had learned to walk at just 3 weeks and was talking at 8 weeks.

* As a junior high school pupil in Pyongyang, he corrected and chastised his teachers for their incorrect interpretations of history.
* Kim wrote six full operas in two years, "all of which are better than any in the history of music," according to his official biography.

* He designed the Tower of the Juche Idea, a 170-metre tower in the east bank of the River Taedong in central Pyongyang that is topped by a glowing red flame.

* Kim's official biography also claims that he wrote 1,500 books during his time at Kim Sung Il University, from where he graduated in 1964.

* According to the Korea Central News Agency, Kim is an expert on all aspects of the film industry and "improved the scripts and guided the production" of the movie "Diary of a Girl Student." His favourite movies are reportedly "Friday the 13th," "Rambo" and anything starring Elizabeth Taylor.

* Kim reportedly employs a servant to inspect every grain of rice that is served to him. Any with the most minor of flaws is discarded.

abraxas21
12-19-2011, 03:55 AM
treasonous lies perpetrated by his oponents in an attempt to stage a coup
the dear leader is alive and well

fast_clay
12-19-2011, 04:01 AM
a few moments... please...

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/patma2003/Kim_Jong_Il-1.jpg

abraxas21
12-19-2011, 04:11 AM
http://rlv.zcache.com/great_leader_kim_jong_il_tshirt-p235296143147784315c9a6_400.jpg

shiaben
12-19-2011, 04:14 AM
RIP

I didn't like his personal lifestyle or his eccentric behavior.

But as a leader I respect him for not selling the country or its nuclear and science programs to the West.

Though I hope the son would turn out to be a better leader and find ways to improve the country's hardships. He's around 28-30 years of age.

Pirata.
12-19-2011, 04:51 AM
v7IHj5xeKx8

allpro
12-19-2011, 05:19 AM
an insightful look at the history of n. korean domestic propaganda:

starts at 03:00
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/292562-1

JolánGagó
12-19-2011, 06:47 AM
I hope he burns in hell forever, together with father and son.

Time Violation
12-19-2011, 07:54 AM
RIP

I didn't like his personal lifestyle or his eccentric behavior.

But as a leader I respect him for not selling the country or its nuclear and science programs to the West.

Never mind he let millions starve to death

AdeyC
12-19-2011, 08:12 AM
RIP

I didn't like his personal lifestyle or his eccentric behavior.

But as a leader I respect him for not selling the country or its nuclear and science programs to the West.

Though I hope the son would turn out to be a better leader and find ways to improve the country's hardships. He's around 28-30 years of age.

I suppose if only 999,999 or less die of starvation thats an improvement????????

Bilbo
12-19-2011, 08:58 AM
good day

may he burn in hell

Nathaliia
12-19-2011, 09:10 AM
funny that it has more answers than havel
or on another thought
not funny

Sunset of Age
12-19-2011, 09:12 AM
No RIP for this idiot criminal.
Estimations of the numbers of civilians that died from hunger during his (and his predecessor's?) 'reign' vary from 250,000 to over 3 million.

Good riddance. :bigwave:

Hopefully something will change for the Northern Korean people but I'm not holding high hopes.

scarecrows
12-19-2011, 09:12 AM
fast_clay jinxed him

Commander Data
12-19-2011, 09:25 AM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/8292848/The-Incredible-Kim-Jong-il-and-his-Amazing-Achievements.html

The Incredible Kim Jong-il and his Amazing Achievements

Known to his people variously as The Supreme Leader, the Dear Leader, Our Father, the General, Lodestar of the 21st Century or Eternal President, Kim Jong-il has been credited with a mind-boggling series of achievements.

* Even before his birth, the future leader of North Korea was triggering miracles. Official biographers say his birth in a cabin on the slopes of Baekdu Mountain in February 1942 was foretold by a swallow and heralded by a double rainbow. When he was born, a new star appeared in the night sky.

* The first time he picked up a golf club, in 1994, Kim reportedly shot a 38-under par round on North Korea's only golf course, including 11 holes-in-one. He then decided to retire from the sport for ever.

* Kim has the ability to alter the weather simply through the power of thought.

* The fledgling leader was a genius as an infant, with official North Korean biographies stating that he had learned to walk at just 3 weeks and was talking at 8 weeks.

* As a junior high school pupil in Pyongyang, he corrected and chastised his teachers for their incorrect interpretations of history.
* Kim wrote six full operas in two years, "all of which are better than any in the history of music," according to his official biography.

* He designed the Tower of the Juche Idea, a 170-metre tower in the east bank of the River Taedong in central Pyongyang that is topped by a glowing red flame.

* Kim's official biography also claims that he wrote 1,500 books during his time at Kim Sung Il University, from where he graduated in 1964.

* According to the Korea Central News Agency, Kim is an expert on all aspects of the film industry and "improved the scripts and guided the production" of the movie "Diary of a Girl Student." His favourite movies are reportedly "Friday the 13th," "Rambo" and anything starring Elizabeth Taylor.

* Kim reportedly employs a servant to inspect every grain of rice that is served to him. Any with the most minor of flaws is discarded.

what a guy...

some more "funny" facts:

- Kim Jong Il was a filmfreak. he had a big collection of porns starring blondes.

- Allegedly he had no urin nor excrementes.

- Kim Jong Il was convinced that criminality is inherited over 3 generations. Therefore he also detained the relatives of delinquentes.

- He cleaned his nation from "unclean" genes by shipping disabeled persons to islands.

Stensland
12-19-2011, 09:37 AM
i'd like to invest in north korea (and myanmar as well btw). does anybody know how to do it?

allpro
12-19-2011, 09:40 AM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/8292848/The-Incredible-Kim-Jong-il-and-his-Amazing-Achievements.html

The Incredible Kim Jong-il and his Amazing Achievements

* The first time he picked up a golf club, in 1994, Kim reportedly shot a 38-under par round on North Korea's only golf course, including 11 holes-in-one. He then decided to retire from the sport for ever.
....

goat.

Gagsquet
12-19-2011, 09:47 AM
:sad: my favourite tumbrl Kim Jong Il looking at things will disappear..

hicdick
12-19-2011, 10:02 AM
rip kim. you'll never walk alone :sad:

Action Jackson
12-19-2011, 10:12 AM
The Fact: At one time was the world’s biggest buyer of Hennessy

For a few years in the early 1990s, it was confirmed by Hennessy that Kim Jong Il was it’s best customer, spending about $600,000 to $850,000 annually on the liquor. He is partial to the Paradis cognac, which can sell for over $700 per bottle. In comparison, the average North Korean makes about $1000 per year.

Lopez
12-19-2011, 10:14 AM
Good riddance.

One of the biggest mass murderers of this age.

Doubt much will change though. Poor North Koreans :sad:.

BigJohn
12-19-2011, 10:39 AM
http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Everyone%20Else/images-7/kim-jong-il-team-america.jpg

rip

fast_clay
12-19-2011, 10:43 AM
i'd like to invest in north korea (and myanmar as well btw). does anybody know how to do it?

interesting call indeed, as you'd have to think the only way from here is up...

Stensland
12-19-2011, 11:10 AM
yeah, the south's population figure stands only at about 50% of the north, yet it's got a trillion dollar economy - while the north barely manages to come up with 40 billion. just mind-boggling. tons of agricultural potential, plus mining, precious metals etc.

apparently there's hardly any way to invest though. the only fund i've found so far is the chosun fund - and its contact address doesn't even work.

http://www.chosunfund.com/pages/chosun/about.aspx

habibko
12-19-2011, 11:19 AM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2076077/Kim-Jong-Il-dead-Dynasty--North-Korean-style.html

An emergency medivac helicopter crashed en route to assist him

:superlol: :yeah:

tripwires
12-19-2011, 12:00 PM
I thought this day would never come. I don't say this often in response to news about people dying no matter how shitty they were, but - good fucking riddance. Finafuckinglly. The crazy fucking psycho despot is dead.

abraxas21
12-19-2011, 12:13 PM
yeah, the south's population figure stands only at about 50% of the north, yet it's got a trillion dollar economy - while the north barely manages to come up with 40 billion. just mind-boggling. tons of agricultural potential, plus mining, precious metals etc.

apparently there's hardly any way to invest though. the only fund i've found so far is the chosun fund - and its contact address doesn't even work.

http://www.chosunfund.com/pages/chosun/about.aspx

try asking in the gamblers' forum

Bilbo
12-19-2011, 12:30 PM
I thought this day would never come. I don't say this often in response to news about people dying no matter how shitty they were, but - good fucking riddance. Finafuckinglly. The crazy fucking psycho despot is dead.

What scares me is that he seems to have a lot of fans around here.

abraxas21
12-19-2011, 12:33 PM
What scares me is that he seems to have a lot of fans around here.

i'm scared too. it is rumoured that the admins in particular are all closet kimtards

tripwires
12-19-2011, 12:33 PM
What scares me is that he seems to have a lot of fans around here.

I trust - okay, hope - that they're just taking the piss.

buddyholly
12-19-2011, 01:12 PM
RIP

I didn't like his personal lifestyle or his eccentric behavior.

But as a leader I respect him for not selling the country or its nuclear and science programs to the West.


He starved millions to death and you respect him? Some leader. Using logic like that it seems you would respect Hitler for making the trains run on time.

electronicmusic
12-19-2011, 01:12 PM
scary stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pSWN6Qj98Iw#

buddyholly
12-19-2011, 01:17 PM
i'd like to invest in north korea (and myanmar as well btw). does anybody know how to do it?

I've not been to North Korea, but from my experience in Myanmar you should consider investing in a company that makes rat poison.

Gagsquet
12-19-2011, 01:19 PM
scary stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pSWN6Qj98Iw#

Frightening :eek:

tripwires
12-19-2011, 01:34 PM
scary stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pSWN6Qj98Iw#

I am genuinely disturbed and grossed out. This is honestly beyond my comprehension. I can't even put myself in their shoes. I just can't.

I watched a Nat Geo documentary on North Korea a few years back. I forgot the exact details but there was a feature on a woman who underwent surgery to correct her blindness and she got her eyesight back. The first thing that she did was not to thank the doctor who did the surgery but to kowtow to a photo of Kim.

habibko
12-19-2011, 01:40 PM
P8-Vr_r36Fg

Stensland
12-19-2011, 01:44 PM
I've not been to North Korea, but from my experience in Myanmar you should consider investing in a company that makes rat poison.

the same kind they needed in china 30 years ago? mind you that people who invested in china got a return on investment of about a gazillion percent. first-come, first-served.

octatennis
12-19-2011, 02:00 PM
R.I.P big boy. :sad:

out_here_grindin
12-19-2011, 05:49 PM
the video from the link posted earier in the thread


pSWN6Qj98Iw&feature=g-logo&context=G2d9fcdfFOAAAAAAAAAA

can you say creepy?

JolánGagó
12-19-2011, 05:58 PM
Hello! that's what communism does to people :wavey:

alter ego
12-19-2011, 07:09 PM
RIP mr. Kim, hello new mr. Kim.

alter ego
12-19-2011, 07:18 PM
the video from the link posted earier in the thread
can you say creepy?

What's so creepy? I saw Jackson freaks fans ripping their clothes and crying when they found out about his death.

buddyholly
12-19-2011, 07:29 PM
What's so creepy? I saw Jackson freaks fans ripping their clothes and crying when they found out about his death.

Yes, but they weren't forced, under penalty of death!.

Jimnik
12-19-2011, 08:18 PM
Best result of the year.

And yes I'm including Chelsea's win over Man City.

Jimnik
12-19-2011, 08:26 PM
i'd like to invest in north korea (and myanmar as well btw). does anybody know how to do it?
They should build the stock exchange on dear leader's grave.

BigJohn
12-19-2011, 09:20 PM
the video from the link posted earier in the thread


pSWN6Qj98Iw&feature=g-logo&context=G2d9fcdfFOAAAAAAAAAA

can you say creepy?

It looks like there are lots of pretty good seats left.

Sofonda Cox
12-19-2011, 09:20 PM
Bin Laden and Gadaffi as well this year. That's the hat trick.

It's been a good year.

scoobs
12-19-2011, 09:21 PM
i'm scared too. it is rumoured that the admins in particular are all closet kimtards
What is your problem?

scoobs
12-19-2011, 09:22 PM
I can only hope that the heir will work towards opening up the regime and improving the lot of his people.

I'm not hopeful though.

It's not been a good year for dictators and oppressive regimes but there's still far too many, and supposed democracies are increasingly showing authoritarian tendencies.

BigJohn
12-19-2011, 09:34 PM
It's not been a good year for dictators and oppressive regimes but there's still far too many

They did lose a couple of prominent iconic stars.


supposed democracies are increasingly showing authoritarian tendencies.

Russia, Canada...

allpro
12-19-2011, 10:20 PM
P8-Vr_r36Fg

hitchens referring to n. korea and the kim regime as a theocracy analogous to western christianity and the trinity?....lol, fucking ridiculous. what good has the n. korean ‘religion’ ever brought to the world? what beliefs, values, institutions, and traditions has the n. korean 'religion' established to allow it's people to flourish?

Time Violation
12-19-2011, 10:35 PM
What is your problem?

Ban him, then he will have no more problems. :p

I can only hope that the heir will work towards opening up the regime and improving the lot of his people.

I'm not hopeful though.

The heir is just a kid, difficult to imagine he will control or work towards anything.

Sunset of Age
12-19-2011, 10:37 PM
It's not been a good year for dictators and oppressive regimes but there's still far too many, and supposed democracies are increasingly showing authoritarian tendencies.

Unfortunately so, indeed.
The way the so-called "Islamic Spring" revolution is developing in Egypt right now doesn't show too many signs of any improvement either at this very moment...

Poor, poor people having to live under this kind of 'rulers'.

allpro
12-19-2011, 10:42 PM
Bin Laden and Gadaffi as well this year. That's the hat trick.

It's been a good year.

It's not been a good year for dictators and oppressive regimes.

next up: assad, chavez, castro :wavey:

emotion
12-19-2011, 10:47 PM
chavez was elected, is popular, and in no way belongs in that group

allpro
12-19-2011, 10:49 PM
chavez was elected, is popular, and in no way belongs in that group

ever hear of cancer?

Seingeist
12-20-2011, 12:40 AM
"Lodestar of the 21st Century"

:haha:

If I was a premium member, I'd have my new username all ready to go.

Ilovetheblues_86
12-20-2011, 01:39 AM
the arabian spring is destroying the nationalists, and only the wahabists petro-monarchies will continue in da power.

out_here_grindin
12-20-2011, 02:16 AM
next up: assad, chavez, castro :wavey:

638 assassination attempts survived. Castro isn;t going anywhere now. He's going to live forever

buddyholly
12-20-2011, 03:04 AM
hitchens referring to n. korea and the kim regime as a theocracy analogous to western christianity and the trinity?....lol, fucking ridiculous. what good has the n. korean ‘religion’ ever brought to the world? what beliefs, values, institutions, and traditions has the n. korean 'religion' established to allow it's people to flourish?

That it is virtuous to be poor as long as you worship your particular god. I am not saying that belief allows a people to flourish, but it is the message of N. Korea and Christianity.

buddyholly
12-20-2011, 03:24 AM
chavez was elected, is popular, and in no way belongs in that group

You are correct. He simply aspires to belong to that group.

BigJohn
12-20-2011, 03:28 AM
jdug6yHJB40

buddyholly
12-20-2011, 03:31 AM
That is so sad.

allpro
12-20-2011, 03:43 AM
That it is virtuous to be poor as long as you worship your particular god. I am not saying that belief allows a people to flourish, but it is the message of N. Korea and Christianity.

it's pointless to attempt an honest debate if you're going to lump in n. korea and 'juche thought' with christianity and the world's other great religions.

read this when you have some free time. gilder gives compelling arguments.
http://www.discovery.org/a/3641

shiaben
12-20-2011, 05:56 AM
I wonder what Tae Se is thinking. He has mixed feelings toward the state.

Anyways, just wanted to point out, during the Korean war, North Korea lost 25% of its civilians.

It suffered a genocide at the hands of the West. No wonder they are strict adherents of their Juche ideology.

If any country suffered genocide at the hands of imperialists, I'm sure citizens of such a state would consolidate and things would continue to remain the same.

Lopez
12-20-2011, 06:11 AM
it's pointless to attempt an honest debate if you're going to lump in n. korea and 'juche thought' with christianity and the world's other great religions.

read this when you have some free time. gilder gives compelling arguments.
http://www.discovery.org/a/3641

It's pointless to attempt an honest debate if you try to promote intelligent design :rolleyes:

These are not compelling arguments. Check the evolution thread and post in that, let's not go offtopic here.

allpro
12-20-2011, 06:46 AM
It's pointless to attempt and honest debate if you try to promote intelligent design :rolleyes:

let's not go offtopic here.

you're right, i took the bait :o

Seingeist
12-20-2011, 11:50 AM
That it is virtuous to be poor as long as you worship your particular god. I am not saying that belief allows a people to flourish, but it is the message of N. Korea and Christianity.

It's not so much that poverty is a virtue in itself as that material possessions can easily stand between a person and God. At the very least, even an atheist should be able to recognize that material obsession tends to skew a person's priorities and tie him to things that do not ultimately matter.

Jimnik
12-20-2011, 01:57 PM
Anyways, just wanted to point out, during the Korean war, North Korea lost 25% of its civilians.

It suffered a genocide at the hands of the West. No wonder they are strict adherents of their Juche ideology.
Just wanted to point out, during the Korean peacetime, North Korea lost civilians through torture, starvation, r@pe, murder, medical experimentation, forced labour, and forced abortions.

It suffered a genocide at the hands of its own leader.

buddyholly
12-20-2011, 01:59 PM
It's not so much that poverty is a virtue in itself as that material possessions can easily stand between a person and God. At the very least, even an atheist should be able to recognize that material obsession tends to skew a person's priorities and tie him to things that do not ultimately matter.

But that is just from your already biased opinion, i.e., that there actually is a God. My belief is that after death, nothing ultimately matters. But I perhaps have the best of both sides, confirmed atheist with a dislike of possessions. I rent a furnished condo, do not own a car and if I decide to move tomorrow will take the clothes on my back, my new Mac and my iPod loaded with Buddy Holly, Gene Vincent, Eddy Cochran and Little Richard.

But what I like about your quote above is the Freudian slip - or is it?

buddyholly
12-20-2011, 02:09 PM
Anyways, just wanted to point out, during the Korean war, North Korea lost 25% of its civilians.

It suffered a genocide at the hands of the West. No wonder they are strict adherents of their Juche ideology.

If any country suffered genocide at the hands of imperialists, I'm sure citizens of such a state would consolidate and things would continue to remain the same.

I doubt you have been admitted to North Korea, so was just wondering where you actually did go for your brainwashing.

Har-Tru
12-20-2011, 02:11 PM
:sad: my favourite tumbrl Kim Jong Il looking at things will disappear..

QFT

That is the real loss here.

Orka_n
12-20-2011, 02:18 PM
fast_clay jinxed himExpected.

Lopez
12-20-2011, 02:33 PM
QFT

That is the real loss here.

The author said he will keep doing it as long as he has pictures in his archive (which he has about 350 or something). So it will stay for a while :P.

fast_clay
12-20-2011, 04:05 PM
Golf world mourns Kim Jong Il

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-12-20/golf-world-mourns-kim-jong-il/3739452

scarecrows
12-20-2011, 04:35 PM
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-12-20/golf-world-mourns-kim-jong-il/3739452

:lol:

Sapeod
12-20-2011, 05:06 PM
Bin Laden, Gaddafi and now Jong-Il? Mugabe is the only one of the Fabulous Four left. When will his time come?

Bilbo
12-20-2011, 05:08 PM
Bin Laden, Gaddafi and now Jong-Il? Mugabe is the only one of the Fabulous Four left. When will his time come?

you forgot Assad

abraxas21
12-20-2011, 05:25 PM
it's hilarious how the names of bin laden, gaddafi, castro, jong-il and even chávez (even though that one was democratically elected) are thrown in together whereas mubarak, who was overtrown by his own people this year after a cruel 17 years old dictatorship, isn't even mentioned. why? well, the former were also contanstly criticized by the 'free media' and the latter was the west's darling.

as usual, the double standards and the brainwashing are clear in the minds of most here in MTF...

Sapeod
12-20-2011, 05:29 PM
you forgot Assad
Assad? I've heard the name before but I can't really tell whether I know him well. He's another dictator, I believe? Syria, is it?

Echoes
12-20-2011, 05:35 PM
That it is virtuous to be poor as long as you worship your particular god. I am not saying that belief allows a people to flourish, but it is the message of N. Korea and Christianity.

When did the Commies say that it was virtuous to be poor? They're productivists, just like "free" capitalists. They can be put back to back. Marx said that money was the universal equivalent. They all think it's virtuous to be rich.

And since when is Communism a "God"? Again an atheist who truly believes that religion and Communism is all the same, in order to show that he's radically different from the Commies whom he knows were atheists just like him (I know it's hard to admit but that's the way it is :p). Communism is an ideology, not a religion. An ideology is a thought for the group, while religion is strictly private. So Hitchens : Dustbin ! By the way, isn't that nickname "Hitch" an insult towards the one and only Hitch (Master of Suspense)? :angel:

abraxas21
12-20-2011, 05:39 PM
By the way, isn't that nickname "Hitch" an insult towards the one and only Hitch (Master of Suspense)? :angel:

true that

alfred hitch is the real hitch while chris hitch is just a random hitch, not to use a more offensive word....

Har-Tru
12-20-2011, 05:51 PM
And since when is Communism a "God"? Again an atheist who truly believes that religion and Communism is all the same, in order to show that he's radically different from the Commies whom he knows were atheists just like him (I know it's hard to admit but that's the way it is :p).

Where exactly did Hitchens or buddyholly say religion and communism are the same?? Hitchens drew the comparison with North Korea. And you don't seem to get tired of your personal campaign linking atheism with communism. I figured I'd tackle this issue.

Yes, most communists are atheists and yes, Stalin was an atheist. And yes, he did commit heinous crimes against priests and other religious people. What should we make of all of this? I'll let you explain your point.

Communism is an ideology, not a religion. An ideology is a thought for the group, while religion is strictly private.

The hell it is... how can anybody say that with a straight face?

buddyholly
12-20-2011, 06:15 PM
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-12-20/golf-world-mourns-kim-jong-il/3739452

Prove he didn't!

buddyholly
12-20-2011, 06:29 PM
When did the Commies say that it was virtuous to be poor? They're productivists, just like "free" capitalists. They can be put back to back. Marx said that money was the universal equivalent. They all think it's virtuous to be rich.



You may have got me there. For all I know the N. Koreans may actually believe they are rich beyond the wildest dreams of ''outsiders''. It is like Einstein's theory of relativity. If you are forbidden the means to measure yourself against anything else, then you can't tell.

But from our privileged position, I was equating the Christian teaching of ''Love thy God above all else'' with the N. Korean teaching of ''Love the Dear leader above all else''.

In both cases, personal happiness is given a secondary role. Even Seingeist, a few quotes above, refers to Christians losing their way by enjoying possessions too much. Which would be another way of saying the path to righteousness is poverty.

And don't forget, the Great Leader is still the President (saviour) of North Korea even after ascending into heaven 20 years ago. Now where have I heard of a cult like that before?

buddyholly
12-20-2011, 06:38 PM
By the way, isn't that nickname "Hitch" an insult towards the one and only Hitch (Master of Suspense)? :angel:

Just be relieved his nickname was a contraction of his surname!.

allpro
12-20-2011, 08:13 PM
"Lodestar of the 21st Century"

:haha:

If I was a premium member, I'd have my new username all ready to go.

my personal favorite is "Highest Incarnation of the Revolutionary Comradely Love".

Jimnik
12-21-2011, 01:16 AM
Bin Laden, Gaddafi and now Jong-Il? Mugabe is the only one of the Fabulous Four left. When will his time come?
Unfortunately he's in very good physical shape for 87. Not sure Zimbabwe will improve much when he finally goes.

EKSTREMISTA
12-21-2011, 08:37 AM
RIP


But as a leader I respect him for not selling the country or its nuclear and science programs to the West.



Well said, man.


http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lcuflqpM0s1qewv1lo1_500.jpg
http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lcsktzk17y1qewv1lo1_500.jpg
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http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lbeumppt2y1qewv1lo1_500.jpg
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http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_laxu0mnmfm1qewv1lo1_500.jpg
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http://i.imm.io/dflg.png
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lwb73vrI0F1qewv1lo1_500.jpg
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http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvwhpgP6411qewv1lo1_500.jpg
http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_law4ekaQU91qewv1lo1_500.jpg
http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_law4d8OY451qewv1lo1_500.jpg

EKSTREMISTA
12-21-2011, 08:45 AM
http://www.dangerousminds.net/images/uploads/kimun1sdfsdfsdf.jpg

fast_clay
12-21-2011, 09:22 AM
Prove he didn't!

huh...? i believe he did...

buddyholly
12-21-2011, 11:44 AM
it's hilarious how the names of bin laden, gaddafi, castro, jong-il and even chávez (even though that one was democratically elected) are thrown in together whereas mubarak, who was overtrown by his own people this year after a cruel 17 years old dictatorship, isn't even mentioned. why? well, the former were also contanstly criticized by the 'free media' and the latter was the west's darling.

as usual, the double standards and the brainwashing are clear in the minds of most here in MTF...

We have also been brainwashed into believing that ''brainwashing'' means a choice can be made.

Agrajag
12-21-2011, 12:07 PM
it's hilarious how the names of bin laden, gaddafi, castro, jong-il and even chávez (even though that one was democratically elected) are thrown in together whereas mubarak, who was overtrown by his own people this year after a cruel 17 years old dictatorship, isn't even mentioned. why? well, the former were also contanstly criticized by the 'free media' and the latter was the west's darling.

as usual, the double standards and the brainwashing are clear in the minds of most here in MTF...

I think most people were glad to see the arab spring, but it seems clear that it still has a long way to go.

Sharia law looks like the probable outcome.

buddyholly
12-21-2011, 12:45 PM
mubarak, who was overtrown by his own people this year after a cruel 17 years old dictatorship, isn't even mentioned. why? well, the former were also contanstly criticized by the 'free media' and the latter was the west's darling.



At least the camel trains ran on time!

buddyholly
12-21-2011, 12:54 PM
Well said, man.



http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lcc3ui3iSD1qewv1lo1_500.jpg

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_law4d8OY451qewv1lo1_500.jpg

With you it is hard to tell why you posted all those great pics. I especially like the one where he introduces a new hygiene product for the privy, thus solving the problem of all the excess corn the country produces.
And the nightly changing of the guards of the boudoir is always a palace attraction.

Jimnik
12-21-2011, 02:51 PM
Well said, man.

:haha:

Great images. What a modest man this dear leader.

buddyholly
12-21-2011, 05:20 PM
And even myself ! 'It's virtuous to be poor' IS Christian, but not Communist. And correct me if I'm wrong, you seem to imply that poverty and happiness are incompatible. Poverty is not Misery. "The humiliation of the Poor creates Misery" said Bernanos. You can be happy and poor (you even gave your personal experience as example, if I understood correctly).

I would say that you can be virtuous and poor, but I would not say that being poor is a virtue and therefore something to be desired, as you seem to think Christianity maintains: that aspect of Christianity that seems to say ''don't worry, if you are poor, you will reap the rewards by being favoured in the afterlife.''
I suspect that was just a ruse by the church to keep the poor and miserable from complaining.

Oh, and no, you did not understand correctly.

abraxas21
12-21-2011, 06:07 PM
'It's virtuous to be poor' IS Christian

i haven't read the Bible in a long time but my interpretation of it is that material poverty by itself isn't a virtue but a a life of material wealth isn't compatible with a life of virtue.

shiaben
12-21-2011, 06:27 PM
Both Koreas have plenty of issues to tackle.

I remember during the Park Chung Hee government (South Korea), this regime prostituted South Korean women to bring money to the country.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/08/world/asia/08korea.html?pagewanted=all

South Korea also has one of the largest poverty rates for old people over the age of 65. About 50% of elderly over the age of 65 are in relative poverty.

Neither Korea is perfect. And just because South Korea has a "democratic" label on it doesn't mean things are going great for them.

Hopefully both countries take the right steps when it comes to approaching reforms and maybe one day they will be unified. But until then, both have to fix their own problems gradually before they can point fingers at each other.

And imperialist intervention/harassment will not improve situations anytime soon. The U.S. should also close down their army posts in South Korea, as this is an obvious violation of South Korea's sovereignty and only provokes hostility in the region among South and North Koreans.

abraxas21
12-21-2011, 07:33 PM
Both Koreas have plenty of issues to tackle.

I remember during the Park Chung Hee government (South Korea), this regime prostituted South Korean women to bring money to the country.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/08/world/asia/08korea.html?pagewanted=all

South Korea also has one of the largest poverty rates for old people over the age of 65. About 50% of elderly over the age of 65 are in relative poverty.

Neither Korea is perfect. And just because South Korea has a "democratic" label on it doesn't mean things are going great for them.

Hopefully both countries take the right steps when it comes to approaching reforms and maybe one day they will be unified. But until then, both have to fix their own problems gradually before they can point fingers at each other.

And imperialist intervention/harassment will not improve situations anytime soon. The U.S. should also close down their army posts in South Korea, as this is an obvious violation of South Korea's sovereignty and only provokes hostility in the region among South and North Koreans.

couldn't have said it better myself.

you're one of the finest political posters of this website

abraxas21
12-21-2011, 07:35 PM
I think most people were glad to see the arab spring, but it seems clear that it still has a long way to go.

Sharia law looks like the probable outcome.

as opposed to the positive outcomes derived from the western interventions?

Har-Tru
12-21-2011, 07:44 PM
Both Koreas have plenty of issues to tackle.

I remember during the Park Chung Hee government (South Korea), this regime prostituted South Korean women to bring money to the country.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/08/world/asia/08korea.html?pagewanted=all

South Korea also has one of the largest poverty rates for old people over the age of 65. About 50% of elderly over the age of 65 are in relative poverty.

Neither Korea is perfect. And just because South Korea has a "democratic" label on it doesn't mean things are going great for them.

Hopefully both countries take the right steps when it comes to approaching reforms and maybe one day they will be unified. But until then, both have to fix their own problems gradually before they can point fingers at each other.

And imperialist intervention/harassment will not improve situations anytime soon. The U.S. should also close down their army posts in South Korea, as this is an obvious violation of South Korea's sovereignty and only provokes hostility in the region among South and North Koreans.

Exactly. The fact that South Korea has its flaws and problems means there isn't really a major difference between both Koreas.

I mean, it's simple logic.

Jimnik
12-21-2011, 08:13 PM
Both Koreas have plenty of issues to tackle.

I remember during the Park Chung Hee government (South Korea), this regime prostituted South Korean women to bring money to the country.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/08/world/asia/08korea.html?pagewanted=all

South Korea also has one of the largest poverty rates for old people over the age of 65. About 50% of elderly over the age of 65 are in relative poverty.

Neither Korea is perfect. And just because South Korea has a "democratic" label on it doesn't mean things are going great for them.

Hopefully both countries take the right steps when it comes to approaching reforms and maybe one day they will be unified. But until then, both have to fix their own problems gradually before they can point fingers at each other.

And imperialist intervention/harassment will not improve situations anytime soon. The U.S. should also close down their army posts in South Korea, as this is an obvious violation of South Korea's sovereignty and only provokes hostility in the region among South and North Koreans.
Couldn't have said it any worse than abraxas but still mostly illogical.

Comparing the South (one of the richest most advanced economies) to the North (one of the poorest and most oppressed) is like discussing who's the better grass court player between Federer and Oscar Hernandez. The South doesn't have satellite TV and high-speed internet in every home nor does Roger have the serve of Karlovic and volleys of Sampras.

You can refer to US involvement as "imperialist harassment" all you want but free trade and military aid is the kind of harassment South Korean victims will be happy to cope with.

buddyholly
12-21-2011, 08:26 PM
And imperialist intervention/harassment will not improve situations anytime soon. The U.S. should also close down their army posts in South Korea, as this is an obvious violation of South Korea's sovereignty and only provokes hostility in the region among South and North Koreans.

abraxas thinks you are a fine poster, but that is not surprising considering you don't know what you are talking about. Or perhaps you might well know what you are talking - which is Castroese. Calling the US presence in South Korea a violation of South Korea's sovereignty is just twaddle. But most of your posts consist of twaddle.

abraxas21
12-21-2011, 08:27 PM
Couldn't have said it any worse than abraxas but still mostly illogical.

coming from you, i'll take it as a compliment

Comparing the South (one of the richest most advanced economies) to the North (one of the poorest and most oppressed) is like discussing who's the better grass court player between Roger Federer and Oscar Hernandez.
apt comparison except that... well, no-one is camparing north korea with south korea. i don't know how your 'logic' works but the simple mention of south korea's faults doesn't mean their population are worse off than in the south.

You can refer to US involvement as "imperialist harassment" all you want but free trade and military aid is the kind of harassment South Korean victims will be happy to cope with.

:lol: it takes a high degree of delusion to talk about 'free trade' with a straight face as if it really existed.

as for military aid, it always comes with strings attached. no country should accept it but then again south korea has whore itself out so much to the yanks that it hardly makes any difference at this point. they can have military aid while they play baseball with chinese imported bats. what a joke.

abraxas21
12-21-2011, 08:29 PM
abraxas thinks you are a fine poster, but that is not surprising considering you don't know what you are talking about. Or perhaps you might well know what you are talking - which is Castroese.


your obsession with castro is cute

Jimnik
12-21-2011, 08:31 PM
You're hopeless.

buddyholly
12-21-2011, 08:32 PM
your obsession with castro is cute

10 years I worked with them. I talk about things I know.

buddyholly
12-21-2011, 08:36 PM
as for military aid, it always comes with strings attached. no country should accept it but then again south korea has whore itself out so much to the yanks that it hardly makes any difference at this point. they can have military aid while they play baseball with chinese imported bats. what a joke.

Twaddle. The Chinese-backed N. Korean lust to turn South Korea into another gulag of starving millions has to be resisted.

abraxas21
12-21-2011, 08:47 PM
10 years I worked with them. I talk about things I know.

please tell us more.

you know, for some reason many rightwingers in my country can only think of castro/cuba whenever the very notion of the ideology of communism pops us. i thought this was strictly a chilean phenomenon so i must say i was surprised to see you using this rethoric.

buddyholly
12-21-2011, 10:30 PM
please tell us more.



I lived and worked there from 1994-2003. I have told much more in older threads, so won't report it again. I met Fidel a number of times, played tennis with Che's nephew, sometimes with Gabriel Marquez on the next court.
The living was good for a foreigner, the working was hell for everybody.
So it is perfectly logical for me to think of Castro/Cuba when communism pops up. Why wouldn't I? You should try reading Granma for 9 years, you might get a different opinion of what is a free press.

Action Jackson
12-21-2011, 11:25 PM
I lived and worked there from 1994-2003. I have told much more in older threads, so won't report it again. I met Fidel a number of times, played tennis with Che's nephew, sometimes with Gabriel Marquez on the next court.
The living was good for a foreigner, the working was hell for everybody.
So it is perfectly logical for me to think of Castro/Cuba when communism pops up. Why wouldn't I? You should try reading Granma for 9 years, you might get a different opinion of what is a free press.

But did you meet Teofilo Stevenson though.

Ozone
12-21-2011, 11:29 PM
http://bitsandpieces.us/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/imageskim-jong-ok.jpg

Jimnik
12-21-2011, 11:33 PM
Dear leader to dead leader.

buddyholly
12-22-2011, 12:22 AM
But did you meet Teofilo Stevenson though.

No, I saw him once in a restaurant.

However, the brother of Livan Hernandez was brought to my apartment by a BBC journalist to watch the 1997 World Series on cable. Livan won two games for the Marlins and was MVP.
Little did I know the brother would defect a month later and became even more famous than Livan, going by the name "El Duque."

Snowwy
12-22-2011, 12:24 AM
No, I saw him once in a restaurant.

However, the brother of Livan Hernandez was brought to my apartment by a BBC journalist to watch the 1997 World Series on cable. Livan won two games for the Marlins and was MVP.
Little did I know the brother would defect a month later and became even more famous than Livan, going by the name "El Duque."

That must have been exciting to meet him. Which one is better though, interesting question.

buddyholly
12-22-2011, 12:42 AM
Yankees always get the glory.

abraxas21
12-22-2011, 12:46 PM
reading some of the posts in this thread, it seems to me that north koreans must be unaware of the joys of falling into debt and buying i-phones. silly asians...

but what I find baffling is that the same warmongers are now crying crocodile tears for North Koreans. their wholesale condemnation like it is worst place on the earth when it is just another dirt poor country with its own pros and cons. It is poor but compared to South Korea, it is complete sovereign while South Korea is under the military control of the US. North Korea wouldn't have had to close up if not for the threat from the US. Also, North Koreans wouldn't have fallen for "protection" from the Kim mafia if not for their own memories of American bombing.

it is a complicated case. nobody is a complete villain.

buddyholly
12-22-2011, 12:56 PM
reading some of the posts in this thread, it seems to me that north koreans must be unaware of the joys of falling into debt and buying i-phones. silly asians...

but what I find baffling is that the same warmongers are now crying crocodile tears for North Koreans. their wholesale condemnation like it is worst place on the earth when it is just another dirt poor country with its own pros and cons. It is poor but compared to South Korea, it is complete sovereign while South Korea is under the military control of the US. North Korea wouldn't have had to close up if not for the threat from the US. Also, North Koreans wouldn't have fallen for "protection" from the Kim mafia if not for their own memories of American bombing.

it is a complicated case. nobody is a complete villain.

You get more demented each day. I am surprised you didn't just go all the way and suggest that the North Koreans are lucky not to have to decide what to have for dinner each day.

Oh, that reminds me of what a Cuban employee said when I took him to a supermarket in Toronto and he saw the ice cream freezer. "Why do they have all those choices? Ice cream is just ice cream.''

tripwires
12-22-2011, 01:44 PM
reading some of the posts in this thread, it seems to me that north koreans must be unaware of the joys of falling into debt and buying i-phones. silly asians...

but what I find baffling is that the same warmongers are now crying crocodile tears for North Koreans. their wholesale condemnation like it is worst place on the earth when it is just another dirt poor country with its own pros and cons. It is poor but compared to South Korea, it is complete sovereign while South Korea is under the military control of the US. North Korea wouldn't have had to close up if not for the threat from the US. Also, North Koreans wouldn't have fallen for "protection" from the Kim mafia if not for their own memories of American bombing.

it is a complicated case. nobody is a complete villain.

:haha:

I disagree with the rest of your post. What Kim did to his people was inexcusable. I don't like to state things in black and white terms but there's not a single cell in my body that's inclined to making excuses for him.

Sunset of Age
12-22-2011, 02:31 PM
:haha:

I disagree with the rest of your post. What Kim did to his people was inexcusable. I don't like to state things in black and white terms but there's not a single cell in my body that's inclined to making excuses for him.

+1.
I'm afraid abraxas has no clue about what a dictatorship can do to ruin a complete country and its inhabitants. An estimated three million people may have perished from famine due to this freak & his mob's 'reign' - and I'm not even starting about the hundred's of thousands of people suffering in working camps over there, folks perhaps being convicted because of laughing about the Great Leader's hairdo, as rumour has it.

:tape: :help:

tripwires
12-22-2011, 02:43 PM
+1.
I'm afraid abraxas has no clue about what a dictatorship can do to ruin a complete country and its inhabitants. An estimated three million people may have perished from famine due to this freak & his mob's 'reign' - and I'm not even starting about the hundred's of thousands of people suffering in working camps over there, folks perhaps being convicted because of laughing about the Great Leader's hairdo, as rumour has it.

:tape: :help:

Not to mention the horrendous brainwashing. Did you watch the video that was posted earlier in this thread of N Koreans weeping in supposed devastation at Kim's death? Creeped the hell out of me. I don't think there's another group of people in the world that I feel more sorry for than the N Koreans. Even Burma's started to start to open up, sort of.

buddyholly
12-22-2011, 02:56 PM
Not to mention the horrendous brainwashing. Did you watch the video that was posted earlier in this thread of N Koreans weeping in supposed devastation at Kim's death? Creeped the hell out of me. I don't think there's another group of people in the world that I feel more sorry for than the N Koreans. Even Burma's started to start to open up, sort of.

abraxas will go to any length to justify his dislike of the West. Even to the ridiculous point of asserting that the N. Koreans are the free society whereas the South Koreans are just the ''occupied'' dupes of the US. This thread has confirmed my conclusion reached after years of study of Cuban Castrospeak. That is: someone who knows he is truly a clown has only one recourse - to call everyone else a clown.

abraxas21
12-22-2011, 03:22 PM
abraxas will go to any length to justify his dislike of the West. Even to the ridiculous point of asserting that the N. Koreans are the free society whereas the South Koreans are just the ''occupied'' dupes of the US. This thread has confirmed my conclusion reached after years of study of Cuban Castrospeak. That is: someone who knows he is truly a clown has only one recourse - to call everyone else a clown.

where have i even remotely implied that? you make things up and then have the guts to say i'm the clown. hilarious...

fact of the matter is that if NK had been a US ally we would have seen notes of condolescences from the western leaders and the acts of terror he did would have been ignored or forgotten.

funny thing is that north koreans were taught that so called capitalist countries were miserable and awful for their inhabitants. the reciprocity in this situation is uncanny.

abraxas21
12-22-2011, 03:37 PM
:haha:

I disagree with the rest of your post. What Kim did to his people was inexcusable. I don't like to state things in black and white terms but there's not a single cell in my body that's inclined to making excuses for him.

why is that?

im not an apologist for kim's dictatorship but i do try to understand the history behind it, as uncomfortable as that might be for most westerners. in that sense, who knows, maybe if the USA hadn't bombed Korea to the stone age, right now we wouldnt be scratching our heads thinking such an opressive man like kim could have ruled a country for so long.

but of course, no-one wants to take any degree of responsibility. esp. not the yanks

abraxas21
12-22-2011, 03:41 PM
+1.
I'm afraid abraxas has no clue about what a dictatorship can do to ruin a complete country and its inhabitants.

right... unlike you, having born at the time of a dictatorship in my own country must make me totally clueless.

not that i would compare kim to pinochet (the latter, even though he was awful man, wasn't as bad as the former) but westerners from rich countries like you should be the least of the bunch to start lecturing others on life in the third world under a dictatorship.

buddyholly
12-22-2011, 03:47 PM
where have i even remotely implied that? you make things up and then have the guts to say i'm the clown. hilarious...

fact of the matter is that if NK had been a US ally we would have seen notes of condolescences from the western leaders and the acts of terror he did would have been ignored or forgotten.

funny thing is that north koreans were taught that so called capitalist countries were miserable and awful for their inhabitants. the reciprocity in this situation is uncanny.

You called N Korea a ''completely sovereign'' state. That is: a state that is not dependent on any other state. N. Korea is totally dependent on China and other countries, yes even the US, to keep its population alive through donations of food. Its citizens are dependent on foreign powers for life itself.

North Koreans are not allowed out to see for themselves what capitalist countries are like. On the other hand, westerners are not allowed into N. Korea to see what it is like. But even the official video shows it is hell.
For you to see ''reciprocity'' in that situation once again confirms your clown credentials.

abraxas21
12-22-2011, 03:50 PM
You called N Korea a ''completely sovereign'' state. That is: a state that is not dependent on any other state. N. Korea is totally dependent on China and other countries, yes even the US, to keep its population alive through donations of food. It's citizens are dependent on foreign powers for life itself.

North Koreans are not allowed out to see for themselves what capitalist countries are like. On the other hand, westerners are not allowed into N. Korea to see what it is like. But even the official video shows it is hell.
For you to see ''reciprocity'' in that situation once again confirms your clown credentials.

so much useless blah blah that doesn't address to any of my points.

but i'll ask again, when have i ever even implied that N Koreans are a free society?

if i'm such a big clown, as you like to repeat time and time again, i'd guess you'd have grounds to make the things you say...

buddyholly
12-22-2011, 04:32 PM
so much useless blah blah that doesn't address to any of my points.

but i'll ask again, when have i ever even implied that N Koreans are a free society?

if i'm such a big clown, as you like to repeat time and time again, i'd guess you'd have grounds to make the things you say...
I totally addressed your clownish ''reciprocity'' statements but you don't want to go there now.

You said that N. Korea is a ''completely sovereign state'' compared to ''S. Korea which is under the military control of the US''. Maybe you want to parse words now and separate the people from the nation by saying that N. Korea is a free and independent sovereign state, it's just that the citizens inside the state are slaves. But whether you are referring to the sovereignty of the state or the freedom of the people, no rational person would say N. Korea is in a better position than S. Korea.

Jimnik
12-22-2011, 06:13 PM
Not to mention the horrendous brainwashing. Did you watch the video that was posted earlier in this thread of N Koreans weeping in supposed devastation at Kim's death? Creeped the hell out of me. I don't think there's another group of people in the world that I feel more sorry for than the N Koreans. Even Burma's started to start to open up, sort of.
N Korea is the most terrifying nation on earth. One word or action that doesn't indicate full 100% support and satisfaction to the regime and you, your family, your friends will spend the rest of your lives getting tortured, r@ped, experimented on, murdered and dissected.

At least stability and structure exist so, unlike many unstable African nations, you won't die of AIDS, malaria, polio or starvation as long as you grovel and worship the dear leader. But food, energy and hygiene are very basic and only barely adequate to survive.

Sunset of Age
12-22-2011, 07:49 PM
Not to mention the horrendous brainwashing. Did you watch the video that was posted earlier in this thread of N Koreans weeping in supposed devastation at Kim's death? Creeped the hell out of me. I don't think there's another group of people in the world that I feel more sorry for than the N Koreans. Even Burma's started to start to open up, sort of.

Yep. Do realize that a lot of those crying stints are commedia del'arte, as those folks would most probably get deported to concentration camps immediately if they do not show enough "grief". :tape:

why is that?

im not an apologist for kim's dictatorship but i do try to understand the history behind it, as uncomfortable as that might be for most westerners. in that sense, who knows, maybe if the USA hadn't bombed Korea to the stone age, right now we wouldnt be scratching our heads thinking such an opressive man like kim could have ruled a country for so long.

but of course, no-one wants to take any degree of responsibility. esp. not the yanks

So because there have been massive mistakes made in the past by 'westerns', we should condone a terrible dictatorship?
BTW, I am NOT a yank. I wouldn't be surprised if "yanks" would consider me a commie, to be honest. So keep those "yank" accusations away from me, thanks.

N Korea is the most terrifying nation on earth. One word or action that doesn't indicate full 100% support and satisfaction to the regime and you, your family, your friends will spend the rest of your lives getting tortured, r@ped, experimented on, murdered and dissected.

At least stability and structure exist so, unlike many unstable African nations, you won't die of AIDS, malaria, polio or starvation as long as you grovel and worship the dear leader. But food, energy and hygiene are very basic and only barely adequate to survive.

Well, you can wonder what is "better", die of starvation, get beaten to death in a concentration camp, or of AIDS... :o

Time Violation
12-22-2011, 08:08 PM
why is that?

im not an apologist for kim's dictatorship but i do try to understand the history behind it, as uncomfortable as that might be for most westerners. in that sense, who knows, maybe if the USA hadn't bombed Korea to the stone age, right now we wouldnt be scratching our heads thinking such an opressive man like kim could have ruled a country for so long.

You conveniently forget that it's the North who invaded the South and triggered the war.

Sunset of Age
12-22-2011, 08:26 PM
You conveniently forget that it's the North who invaded the South and triggered the war.

Ah, now that is just a minor detail, isn't it? ;)

buddyholly
12-22-2011, 10:07 PM
if i'm such a big clown, as you like to repeat time and time again, i'd guess you'd have grounds to make the things you say...

Recently you have taken to using terms like ''huge clown'' ad nauseum, without a word of explanation. It is not a phrase I would normally trivialize my posts with, but I just thought for once I would see how you would take it being thrown back at you. Not very well, it seems.

buddyholly
12-22-2011, 10:08 PM
You conveniently forget that it's the North who invaded the South and triggered the war.

He didn't forget. He just revised history.

Jimnik
12-22-2011, 10:15 PM
Well, you can wonder what is "better", die of starvation, get beaten to death in a concentration camp, or of AIDS... :o
Wonderful world isn't it.

Interesting question: Would you rather live in Zimbabwe or North Korea?

Honestly I don't know.

Stensland
12-22-2011, 10:21 PM
zimbabwe, easily. compared to north korea life in zimbabwe seems fun. plus there's a way out.

Jimnik
12-22-2011, 10:33 PM
It's not as easy as you think. Many get killed crossing a river of crocodiles trying to escape to South Africa.

But I meant which would you rather live in if you couldn't flee? Very hypothetical but just curious.

allpro
12-22-2011, 10:37 PM
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/4512/illin.jpg

abraxas21
12-23-2011, 12:33 AM
So because there have been massive mistakes made in the past by 'westerns', we should condone a terrible dictatorship?

you're starting to sound like BH with all these baseless accusations. at no point have i defended kim's dictatorship nor i have said westerners should condone it (whatever the hell you mean with that anyhow)


BTW, I am NOT a yank. I wouldn't be surprised if "yanks" would consider me a commie, to be honest. So keep those "yank" accusations away from me, thanks.

i'm well aware you're a dutch. hell, you have talked about your country with so much pride in other threads that it would be impossible not to know you're dutch.

anyhow, at not point have i ever even implied you're a yank. i dont know where you're getting these ideas from but you're obviously discussing against an idea of me that doesn't relate in any way to reality. i suggest you read my posts again. thanks

abraxas21
12-23-2011, 12:39 AM
I totally addressed your clownish ''reciprocity'' statements but you don't want to go there now.

oh, dear. are you always this literal?

You said that N. Korea is a ''completely sovereign state'' compared to ''S. Korea which is under the military control of the US''. Maybe you want to parse words now and separate the people from the nation by saying that N. Korea is a free and independent sovereign state, it's just that the citizens inside the state are slaves. But whether you are referring to the sovereignty of the state or the freedom of the people, no rational person would say N. Korea is in a better position than S. Korea.

there are you're fighting with your own inner ghosts again, BH.

again, at no point have i said NK is in a better position than SK.

people in MTF really need to learn how to read properly...

abraxas21
12-23-2011, 12:42 AM
You conveniently forget that it's the North who invaded the South and triggered the war.

i don't forget it. i just said that the little US intervention in which hundreds of thousands of innocent north koreans got killed just because the yanks and the soviets were in a pissing contest might have had something to do with the fact that the northern koreans are in a terrible and long dictatorship now.

but of course, to the ones blind to reality those must be 2 totally separated incidents that are in no way related to each other :lol:

Time Violation
12-23-2011, 12:45 AM
i don't forget it. i just said that the little US intervention in which hundreds of thousands of innocent north koreans got killed just because the yanks and the soviets were in a pissing contest might have had something to do with the fact that the northern koreans are in a terrible and long dictatorship now.

but of course, to the ones blind to reality those must be 2 totally separated incidents that are in no way related to each other :lol:

Newsflash, a lot of innocent South Koreans died as well, and they are not in a terrible and long dictatorship now (though they were in some kind of during 60s/70s/80s).

abraxas21
12-23-2011, 12:48 AM
Newsflash, a lot of innocent South Koreans died as well, and they are not in a terrible and long dictatorship now (though they were in some kind of during 60s/70s/80s).

newsflash to you: does that change in any way the point i made?

if not then better stay quiet, son.

Sunset of Age
12-23-2011, 01:40 AM
you're starting to sound like BH with all these baseless accusations. at no point have i defended kim's dictatorship nor i have said westerners should condone it (whatever the hell you mean with that anyhow)

Accusations? :confused:

i'm well aware you're a dutch. hell, you have talked about your country with so much pride in other threads that it would be impossible not to know you're dutch.

"Pride" about my country? Don't make me laugh.
I don't do nationalism, mate. Far from it, I've despised the route my country is taking in politics for quite some many years already. The Netherlands, in contrary to popular belief, is well on its way to become the most harsh right-wing country in the entirety of Europe right now, and NO I do not like it at all.

You must have mixed me up with another Dutchie poster. :wavey:

abraxas21
12-23-2011, 02:02 AM
Accusations? :confused:



"Pride" about my country? Don't make me laugh.
I don't do nationalism, mate. Far from it, I've despised the route my country is taking in politics for quite some many years already. The Netherlands, in contrary to popular belief, is well on its way to become the most harsh right-wing country in the entirety of Europe right now, and NO I do not like it at all.

You must have mixed me up with another Dutchie poster. :wavey:

way to change topics, eh...

with regards to national pride, yes, i think you indeed have a lot of it. not that there's anything wrong with that. in point of fact, i personally think nationalism -understood as having a special love for your own culture, places and people- is great and going by your posts i'd say your personal brand of nationalism falls under my criteria. i actually meant no offense or sarcasm at all with that comment.

shiaben
12-23-2011, 02:10 AM
You get more demented each day. I am surprised you didn't just go all the way and suggest that the North Koreans are lucky not to have to decide what to have for dinner each day.

Oh, that reminds me of what a Cuban employee said when I took him to a supermarket in Toronto and he saw the ice cream freezer. "Why do they have all those choices? Ice cream is just ice cream.''

Maybe this Cuban is not a spoiled arsehole such as yourself. Ever thought about that ;)

I remember watching a documentary about Cuba, and some young girl told the American camera man, that she could careless about $70 high quality Nike shoes, as long as Cuba meets her basic needs, in which she felt the Cuban govt. did meet those needs. There was also countless highly talented Cuban baseball players who refused to leave Cuba out of national pride even though they could have signed million dollar contracts with the MLB. The thing is buddyholly, not everyone around the world, is obsessed with the best shoes, the best cars, the best food, the best phones, the best income, the best weather, the best everything! If these people support their leaders/govt., that's their problem, not yours.

But when you try to impose your ethnocentric racist view of what is "right" and what is "wrong", that's just stupid. Because every country around the world is ran differently, and if the people want to change it, believe me, they will change it (that is what revolutions, reforms, etc are for). But if they want to keep things the way they are, they will keep it. This is common sense.

wee
12-23-2011, 08:16 AM
Bin Laden and Gadaffi as well this year. That's the hat trick.
check your computer keyboard, in the year of 2011, we've lost L(Laden), K(Kaddhafi), J(Jong Il), who's next?:rolleyes:

scarecrows
12-23-2011, 12:53 PM
check your computer keyboard, in the year of 2011, we've lost L(Laden), K(Kaddhafi), J(Jong Il), who's next?:rolleyes:

Hugo

abraxas21
12-23-2011, 12:57 PM
a friend of mine recently was arguing that the unification of the 2 koreas was against the interests of the western hegemony. his argument was that South Korean wealth and new technology combined with North Korean nuclear bomb would turn a unified korea into a world superpower overnight. korean society seems to have both the labour national-orientation of the Japanese and the family-orientation of china.

i think he has a point and that would explain why the westerners seem so keen to keep the current status quo.

Time Violation
12-23-2011, 01:14 PM
a friend of mine recently was arguing that the unification of the 2 koreas was against the interests of the western hegemony. his argument was that South Korean wealth and new technology combined with North Korean nuclear bomb would turn a unified korea into a world superpower overnight. korean society seems to have both the labour national-orientation of the Japanese and the family-orientation of china.

i think he has a point and that would explain why the westerners seem so keen to keep the current status quo.

Actually, I've heard a couple of times before, and even read yesterday in some article (CNN maybe? can't find it now) that South is horrified about possible costs of the unification. From the example of West and East Germany, where huge money was spent and the result not exactly what they expected. In case of North Korea it would've been even worse, since they need more help.

Of course, once it clicks it would make one bad-ass country, but it would need a lot of time and a lot of cash, who knows :)

buddyholly
12-23-2011, 01:30 PM
I remember watching a documentary about Cuba, and some young girl told the American camera man, that she could careless about $70 high quality Nike shoes, as long as Cuba meets her basic needs, in which she felt the Cuban govt. did meet those needs. There was also countless highly talented Cuban baseball players who refused to leave Cuba out of national pride even though they could have signed million dollar contracts with the MLB. The thing is buddyholly, not everyone around the world, is obsessed with the best shoes, the best cars, the best food, the best phones, the best income, the best weather, the best everything! If these people support their leaders/govt., that's their problem, not yours.

But when you try to impose your ethnocentric racist view of what is "right" and what is "wrong", that's just stupid. Because every country around the world is ran differently, and if the people want to change it, believe me, they will change it (that is what revolutions, reforms, etc are for). But if they want to keep things the way they are, they will keep it. This is common sense.

"Ethnocentric racist?'' Nice phrasing. If you really believe that people will just change things to suit themselves in a country like Cuba, then common sense is something you lack. You have no idea.
Cubans don't necessarily want the best of everything. Most of them would just like any kind of phone, car or income. The weather, at least, Castro has graciously permitted. But show me a young Cuban that truthfully says he/she doesn't want a pair of Nikes from relatives in Miami. I don't think so. In fact, I don't think you have any idea what Cubans really want.
You probably would deny that that young girl was just parroting what she has been taught since birth. The wish for something beyond basic existence has already been drummed into her brain in school as a ''non-patriotic'' wish.

I get pissed when people like you would make statements like ''Oh the Cubans are so lucky that they don't have those awful McDonalds on every corner." My experience in Cuba is that Cubans dream of the forbidden luxury of being able to sample a Big Mac. That is hardly an obsession with the best.

rocketassist
12-23-2011, 01:37 PM
abraxas will go to any length to justify his dislike of the West. Even to the ridiculous point of asserting that the N. Koreans are the free society whereas the South Koreans are just the ''occupied'' dupes of the US. This thread has confirmed my conclusion reached after years of study of Cuban Castrospeak. That is: someone who knows he is truly a clown has only one recourse - to call everyone else a clown.

And you'll go to the opposite lengths to justify your love of the US and its beliefs.

Though in this case, the North Koreans are obviously in limbo and I hope some negotiations are made with this ugly mug of a new president.

buddyholly
12-23-2011, 01:40 PM
And you'll go to the opposite lengths to justify your love of the US and its beliefs.



I was defending the West against abraxas' rantings. He hates you too, you know.

abraxas21
12-23-2011, 01:43 PM
I was defending the West against abraxas' rantings. He hates you too, you know.

i don't hate anyone, mate, and rocketassist is a solid poster for the most part. :wavey:

rocketassist
12-23-2011, 01:46 PM
next up: assad, chavez, castro :wavey:

Chavez isn't a despot.

abraxas21
12-23-2011, 01:47 PM
show me a young Cuban that truthfully says he/she doesn't want a pair of Nikes from relatives in Miami. I don't think so.

the hilarity of the situation is that you don't even realize how ridiculous you sound

buddyholly
12-23-2011, 01:54 PM
Maybe this Cuban is not a spoiled arsehole such as yourself. Ever thought about that ;)



No that particular Cuban was not spoiled, he was impoverished.

I arrived in Canada with $400 and went straight to work in the far north. I have never owed a cent to anyone and have earned everything I now have.
Please enlighten me and tell me who spoiled me? Or did I spoil myself, maybe?

Jimnik
12-23-2011, 03:46 PM
Actually, I've heard a couple of times before, and even read yesterday in some article (CNN maybe? can't find it now) that South is horrified about possible costs of the unification. From the example of West and East Germany, where huge money was spent and the result not exactly what they expected. In case of North Korea it would've been even worse, since they need more help.

Of course, once it clicks it would make one bad-ass country, but it would need a lot of time and a lot of cash, who knows :)
Indeed, lot of lessons can be learned from German reunification.

This is all assuming the North eventually opens up but best would be to keep independence for at least 10 years while the economy catches up. Maintain low Eastern European style taxes and encourage foreign investment from China, Japan, US and EU. Once GDP per capita reaches 50% of the south, adopt a single currency and fiscal policy then remove the border.

Unfortunately, theory can never be applied to reality. Emotion always plays a major role, Korean families will reunite and the South will want to flood the North with cash. Messy but that's how it usually works out.

abraxas21
12-23-2011, 04:58 PM
Unfortunately, theory can never be applied to reality. Emotion always plays a major role, Korean families will reunite and the South will want to flood the North with cash. Messy but that's how it usually works out.

yeah, it must be truly unfortunable how human compassion gets in the way of money sometimes...

libertarians :facepalm:

buddyholly
12-23-2011, 04:59 PM
Chavez isn't a despot.

Crackpot. Pol Pot wannabe.

buddyholly
12-23-2011, 05:01 PM
the hilarity of the situation is that you don't even realize how ridiculous you sound

Yes, no doubt Cubans across the island are rolling on the floor at the very idea that they might like to have a pair of imperialist Nikes. Oh, wait.......... nobody in Cuba will read this. I mean, are you really saying that it is ridiculous of me to say that Cubans would love to own a pair of Nikes? Or are you going to come back and say you never said that? And then claim that what you actually said is that I made a ridiculous statement that yes, they would.

So which is it? It is ridiculous to think Cubans would like to have Nikes? Or just ridiculous to say so?

To your ears, I hope I always sound ridiculous.

abraxas21
12-25-2011, 04:14 AM
Yes, no doubt Cubans across the island are rolling on the floor at the very idea that they might like to have a pair of imperialist Nikes. Oh, wait.......... nobody in Cuba will read this. I mean, are you really saying that it is ridiculous of me to say that Cubans would love to own a pair of Nikes? Or are you going to come back and say you never said that? And then claim that what you actually said is that I made a ridiculous statement that yes, they would.

New Air Jordans Cause Nationwide Shopping Frenzy

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Published: December 23, 2011 at 8:43 PM ET

SEATTLE (AP) — Scuffles broke out and police were brought in to quell unrest that nearly turned into riots across the nation Friday following the release of Nike's new Air Jordan basketball shoes — a retro model of one of the most popular Air Jordans ever made.

The mayhem stretched from Washington state to Georgia and was reminiscent of the violence that broke out 20 years ago in many cities as the shoes became popular targets for thieves. It also had a decidedly Black Friday feel as huge crowds of shoppers overwhelmed stores for a must-have item.

In suburban Seattle, police used pepper spray on about 20 customers who started fighting at the Westfield Southcenter mall. The crowd started gathering at four stores in the mall around midnight and had grown to more than 1,000 people by 4 a.m., when the stores opened, Tukwila Officer Mike Murphy said. He said it started as fighting and pushing among people in line and escalated over the next hour.

Murphy said no injuries were reported, although some people suffered cuts or scrapes from fights. Shoppers also broke two doors, and 18-year-old man was arrested for assault after authorities say he punched an officer.

"He did not get his shoes; he went to jail," Murphy said.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011/12/23/us/AP-US-Air-Jordan-Crowds.html?_r=2&ref=news

imperialist nikes :bowdown:

tripwires
12-25-2011, 09:40 AM
why is that?

im not an apologist for kim's dictatorship but i do try to understand the history behind it, as uncomfortable as that might be for most westerners. in that sense, who knows, maybe if the USA hadn't bombed Korea to the stone age, right now we wouldnt be scratching our heads thinking such an opressive man like kim could have ruled a country for so long.

but of course, no-one wants to take any degree of responsibility. esp. not the yanks

I'm not a Westerner despite my country's desperation to be one of "them", so I sympathise with your general anti-West stance to some extent. You may even be right in that the US might have contributed to N Korea's current situation. However, history can only tell us so much; it can only absolve a dictator of that much liability. The choices that Kim made were his alone. Us ex-colonies can blame the colonists all we want, but the truth is that after the foreigners fucked off from Southeast Asia or wherever, it's up to the local population to build their own countries. My country prospered so hurray for me. Kim fucked up his. The chain of causation has to stop somewhere.

(PS. What's so great about Nike? :rolleyes:)

buddyholly
12-25-2011, 11:31 AM
imperialist nikes :bowdown:

Looked like Havana when the government store had a container of frozen chicken parts arrive from Canada.

Action Jackson
12-26-2011, 12:50 PM
Ok, this has gone long enough conversations will be moved to the religion thread.

rocketassist
12-28-2011, 01:52 AM
Crackpot. Pol Pot wannabe.

Nope.

He's anti-USA, doesn't make him a despot.

buddyholly
12-28-2011, 02:54 AM
Nope.

He's anti-USA, doesn't make him a despot.

Didn't say he was. Just a despot wannabe. He's probably too stupid to be a real despot.

rocketassist
12-28-2011, 03:56 AM
Didn't say he was. Just a despot wannabe. He's probably too stupid to be a real despot.

Democratically elected leader, democratic government. The job he's done for Venezuela can be argued in many forms but those are facts.

shiaben
12-28-2011, 05:37 AM
Didn't say he was. Just a despot wannabe. He's probably too stupid to be a real despot.

Before you open your mouth. Just realize Pol Pot was a despot under the tutelage of the American govt. :wavey:

Jimnik
12-28-2011, 04:35 PM
Hope people don't mind if I go back on topic here. :wavey:

mYCliZ_wDlw

The dear leader. Such a great man. :hysteric:

Action Jackson
12-28-2011, 04:40 PM
Thanks Jimi, he was a man of the people the Great Leader.

buddyholly
12-28-2011, 07:32 PM
I really admire the stoicism of all those top military brass. While all around them the people were gnashing their teeth, beating their breasts and wailing hysterically, they managed to maintain a stiff upper lip and totally conceal their agony.

buddyholly
12-28-2011, 07:34 PM
Before you open your mouth. Just realize Pol Pot was a despot under the tutelage of the American govt. :wavey:

Tutelage? I think not. It was hoped he might serve a useful purpose to stop the spread of the Vietnamese communists throughout southeast Asia. Didn't work out.

abraxas21
12-28-2011, 08:40 PM
BH, trolling every single political thread in NT since Feb 2004

:worship:

buddyholly
12-28-2011, 09:21 PM
What is the difference between posting and trolling? I never did know.

I am five years ahead of you, but you will soon pass me in posts.

Topspindoctor
12-29-2011, 12:29 AM
Bin Laden, Gaddafi and now Jong-Il? Mugabe is the only one of the Fabulous Four left. When will his time come?

Yeah... too bad Gaddafi had to die because he went against the Yanks and suggested that oil should be traded for gold instead of worthless paper called US dollars which Obama government prints like their lives depended on it. Funny how most clowns think anybody cares about "dictatorships" and "people being oppressed" - when in reality it's just all about self-gain and profit. People are just meat to be exploited for situations like this.

Pirata.
12-29-2011, 01:05 AM
Funny how most clowns think anybody cares about "dictatorships" and "people being oppressed" - when in reality it's just all about self-gain and profit. People are just meat to be exploited for situations like this.

Sad, but true. Tens of thousands of North Koreans (men, women, children, infants, the elderly...) imprisoned in gulags all over the country meanwhile politicians here probably only care about how they can get a little piece of profit out of all this. Disgusting.

You can see them from google earth http://freekorea.us/camps

Black Adam
12-29-2011, 01:17 AM
Chavez jokes that USA is causing cancer in SA leaders.

Mjau!
12-29-2011, 01:24 AM
US ME-policy explained by former four star general and NATO commander Wesley Clark.

3:00 onwards.
Nn1WTP8ClvI

Jimnik
12-29-2011, 02:27 AM
Funny how most clowns think anybody cares about "dictatorships" and "people being oppressed" - when in reality it's just all about self-gain and profit.
You don't care about self-gain and profit? You're the only saint on the planet.


Sad, but true. Tens of thousands of North Koreans (men, women, children, infants, the elderly...) imprisoned in gulags all over the country meanwhile politicians here probably only care about how they can get a little piece of profit out of all this. Disgusting.
Easy for you to say. So what are the politicians suppose to do to meet your approval?

Pirata.
12-29-2011, 02:37 AM
Easy for you to say. So what are the politicians suppose to do to meet your approval?

Stop exploiting third world countries for political gain? :shrug:

Jimnik
12-29-2011, 02:39 AM
Stop exploiting third world countries for political gain? :shrug:
You think they gain votes for stealing gold and diamonds from Sierra Leone?

US doesn't even trade with North Korea. How can they possibly exploit them?

buddyholly
12-29-2011, 01:18 PM
US doesn't even trade with North Korea. How can they possibly exploit them?

They exploit them by sending lots of aid. It's just that nothing ever comes back.