The biggest "What ifs" of 2011: Rafa's post-Abu Dhabi flu vs Roger's AO Simon match [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

The biggest "What ifs" of 2011: Rafa's post-Abu Dhabi flu vs Roger's AO Simon match

fsoica
11-26-2011, 06:57 AM
I was watching yesterday the highlights of their exho final in Abu Dhabi.

Roger was on a high after a nice end at WTF 2010 and Rafa was established as a firm no.1 and hot-hard court player after that USOpen 2010 final he won against the Djoker.

They were both firing on all cilinders in the first days of 2011.

They produced an exho of fine attacking tennis on both sides, with Rafa winning the important points, almost as in "real life". But the important thing was that they both were playing very high level tennis and their confidence levels were also skyrocketing.

Then Doha came. Roger's level was sublime in the final, but Rafa could not be present due to a virus or some other disease he contracted in Doha and also due to a hot Davydenko in the semis.

Roger won and established himself as the favourite for AO. And then, after a sublime first round and 2 sublime sets vs Gilles in Melbourne, something happened. On the mental side, I reckon. Suddenly Shankerer showed up on stage and he never left until RG.

I wonder how would the 2011 season would have unfolded without those 2 apparently insignificant events: Rafa's flu and Roger's Simon match?

Where would have been the Djoker? Would Fed have won in Oz or a "fluless"-Rafa would have plevailed? How many masters 1000 and Slams would Novak had won in 2011?

Pls. join the alternate timeline and discuss...

helvet empire
11-26-2011, 07:04 AM
I have absolutely no doubt Fed would have won the AO if not for this Simon match. And afer that, who knows? Confidence would have been on his side...

tripwires
11-26-2011, 07:28 AM
Oh my god, you can't be serious. I love Roger, but I don't think the Simon match was that significant. He didn't play well in his next subsequent two matches, but I thought he was absolutely solid against Wawrinka; I thought he'd steamroll Djokovic for sure. But Nole was too good. There's no argument. Maybe Roger could've won a set, but Nole was just too good. End of story.

Lurking
11-26-2011, 07:33 AM
FO SF being Bo4 instead of Bo5 because of the late start time.

Then there's the hypothetical, does Federer win if they have enough time to play 5 sets and does Federer win if he sacrifices the final set in the USO and goes all out for the fourth?

fsoica
11-26-2011, 08:06 AM
Oh my god, you can't be serious. I love Roger, but I don't think the Simon match was that significant. He didn't play well in his next subsequent two matches, but I thought he was absolutely solid against Wawrinka; I thought he'd steamroll Djokovic for sure. But Nole was too good. There's no argument. Maybe Roger could've won a set, but Nole was just too good. End of story.

Pls. bear in mind that this is absolutely not an anti-Novak thread...And this is exactly what I expected from your answers. Answers to questions like: was Nole's level good enough to have the same results even against a, let's say, WTF 2010 Federer or against a USOpen 2010 Nadal? Or Nadal's and Fed's level in the beginning of 2011, if sustained at the AO, would have been enough to beat Nole?

So, it's just an hypothetical discussion..

But, also, do not forget the butterfly effect. Even smaller changes in the conditions of a system can produce extremely different outcomes...And a flu or a strange mental state when playing one of your bad matchups (e.g. Simon) can be considered as quite some changes in those 2 respective systems...

tripwires
11-26-2011, 08:16 AM
I may be more inclined to think that the Simon match had an effect on Roger's game if it'd been the quarter-final. But Roger had 3 matches after that to get his mojo back. And he WON the Simon match (well, obviously) which I thought should have given him confidence instead of taking it away. Sure, he lost a 2-set lead, but Simon has always given him problems. Wasn't it the first match he'd won against Simon? That should have boosted him - this is why I say that Nole was just too good in that SF.

Kat_YYZ
11-26-2011, 08:23 AM
I may be more inclined to think that the Simon match had an effect on Roger's game if it'd been the quarter-final. But Roger had 3 matches after that to get his mojo back. And he WON the Simon match (well, obviously) which I thought should have given him confidence instead of taking it away. Sure, he lost a 2-set lead, but Simon has always given him problems. Wasn't it the first match he'd won against Simon? That should have boosted him - this is why I say that Nole was just too good in that SF.

A lot of people feel that Fed was somehow "different" after that Simon match. They think this not based on any results or statistics; just a 'feeling' -- a vibe. That he somehow lost his fire after that match and didn't regain it till around FO.

tripwires
11-26-2011, 08:25 AM
^Yeah, I thought he didn't play well against Malisse and Robredo. But he did well against Wawrinka, so I don't know if the Simon match really had that much of an effect.

GSMnadal
11-26-2011, 08:28 AM
The only 'what if' there is, is what if Rafa hadn't got injured in the Ferrer match. He would've won at least 3 slams for sure, maybe even 4.

Chirag
11-26-2011, 08:51 AM
A lot of people feel that Fed was somehow "different" after that Simon match. They think this not based on any results or statistics; just a 'feeling' -- a vibe. That he somehow lost his fire after that match and didn't regain it till around FO.

Federer played pretty well against Djokovic but Novak was just too good .There was a time in that match where he went 1 hour without commiting an error and pounding every ball .The simon match was insignificant .

And why Federer never does will in IW and Miami ,its because of the slow courts(Miami was the slowest this year) .He has not done anything in those events in the last 4 years .Thats why I never had high expectations for him in those events in the last 2 years and I have till now been correct .;)

fsoica
11-26-2011, 09:01 AM
The only 'what if' there is, is what if Rafa hadn't got injured in the Ferrer match. He would've won at least 3 slams for sure, maybe even 4.

So your opinion is that Nole 2011 <<< Rafa 2010, right?

alter ego
11-26-2011, 09:02 AM
The only 'what if' there is, is what if Rafa hadn't got injured in the Ferrer match. He would've won at least 3 slams for sure, maybe even 4.

Yeah Nadull was so injured that they had to carry him out on a stretcher midway through the match... oh wait.

GSMnadal
11-26-2011, 09:09 AM
So your opinion is that Nole 2011 <<< Rafa 2010, right?

Not necessarily, my opinion is that Nole 2011 reached his level because of the huge confidence boost of winning the AO, followed by beating Rafa in IW/Miami. Rafa had that confidence boost coming into AO 2011 (going for the Rafa slam, man on a mission), and it would've taken an awful lot to stop him there, and then the injury happened.

Even with the disappointment of losing the 'Rafa slam', Nadal outplayed Novak for a long time in IW (recently saw it again), until he got broken out of nowhere and then he crumbled (lack of confidence). Same goes for Miami basically. All what ifs of course, but I highly doubt Novak would've beaten Rafa in those tournaments, and therefore he wouldn't have become Rafa's tormentor...and so on.

Yeah Nadull was so injured that they had to carry him on stretcher midway through the match... oh wait.

Some players choose to fight on when seriously injured, as long as there is even the slightest chance of winning, instead of retiring with a cough. Hope this helps. EDIT: Thought you were a Djokotard, but see you're just a Nadal hater. So you can ignore the second part

alter ego
11-26-2011, 09:30 AM
Some players choose to fight on when seriously injured, as long as there is even the slightest chance of winning, instead of retiring with a cough. Hope this helps. EDIT: Thought you were a Djokotard, but see you're just a Nadal hater. So you can ignore the second part

Yes some players like for example Federer who was played 991 matches without retiring. Not Nadull's case. Remember AO 09 against Murray.

GSMnadal
11-26-2011, 09:44 AM
Yes some players like for example Federer who was played 991 matches without retiring. Not Nadull's case. Remember AO 09 against Murray.

Yes, the Murray incident isn't Rafa's finest moment, but that's about it for questionable retirements for him.

EddieNero
11-26-2011, 10:12 AM
Simon's match destroyed Feds self-confidence for months.

Saberq
11-26-2011, 11:36 AM
Simon's match destroyed Feds self-confidence for months.

he WON that match you mugs

TBkeeper
11-26-2011, 11:39 AM
he WON that match you mugs

So you think winning in 3 and winning in 5 sets gains the same confidence :D :D :D :D what a dumbfuck ...

Saberq
11-26-2011, 11:45 AM
So you think winning in 3 and winning in 5 sets gains the same confidence :D :D :D :D what a dumbfuck ...

no a dumbfuck is some 16 year old kid that thinks tennis started with Fed and the best part it that Roger killed all his opponents until Novak :wavey:

TBkeeper
11-26-2011, 12:38 PM
Look at the H2H between Roger and Djoker you ****lick

tripwires
11-26-2011, 12:43 PM
:haha: Fail thread.

fsoica
11-26-2011, 12:45 PM
:haha: Fail thread.

right :)
it seems you're right...
i'll try to be more inspired next time :sad:

tripwires
11-26-2011, 12:51 PM
right :)
it seems you're right...
i'll try to be more inspired next time :sad:

Oh no it wasn't a dig at you, but at the typical MTF rubbish that's infested this thread. :)

fsoica
11-26-2011, 12:58 PM
Oh no it wasn't a dig at you, but at the typical MTF rubbish that's infested this thread. :)

Yeah, I got it...that's why I agreed :sad:

romismak
11-26-2011, 01:07 PM
Oh my god... what IF - Nole won that Madrid marathon against Rafa in 2009, he was playing great whole clay season, maybe he would win RG and became Nole2.0, year and half earlier... What if hot Davydenko hold his nerves and high level and beat Federer in AO QF 2010 and won AO? those what IF.... What if Nole didn´t injured and won Cinci, USO- playing healthy all the time, probably winning almost everything this season include WTF and other MAsters 1000....

Saberq
11-26-2011, 01:23 PM
Look at the H2H between Roger and Djoker you ****lick

14-10 WOW a real ownage ....LOL you mug

incognito
11-26-2011, 02:16 PM
Oh my god... what IF - Nole won that Madrid marathon against Rafa in 2009, he was playing great whole clay season, maybe he would win RG and became Nole2.0, year and half earlier... What if hot Davydenko hold his nerves and high level and beat Federer in AO QF 2010 and won AO? those what IF.... What if Nole didn´t injured and won Cinci, USO- playing healthy all the time, probably winning almost everything this season include WTF and other MAsters 1000....
A similar story unfolded in 2008 after Novak had won his first AO title, when he lost two tight matches against Nadal (Olympics SF and Queens final) and kinda lost steam for much of the remainder of the 2008 season.

As for this season, the biggest "what if" was IMO the withdrawal by Fognini against Djokovic in the RG QF and the possible implications that this had for the outcome of Djokovic's SF encounter with Federer, given the number of days he went without matchplay.

But, yeah, there's not much point in speculating about what could have been...

Time Violation
11-26-2011, 02:37 PM
Simon's match destroyed Feds self-confidence for months.

Lol, Fed is 16-time GS winner and best player since Laver, yet a single match against Simon "destroyed" his self-confidence? You cannot be serious. Mighty Simon destroying the GOAT by losing the match. :facepalm:

What kind of Fedfans are you people anyway, the biggest Fed-hater couldn't come up with such screwed logic :confused:

sexybeast
11-26-2011, 02:45 PM
A better "what if" would be if Federer would have won the 1st set against Djokovic or atleast the 2nd set, I think he was winning more points than Djokovic despite losing the first 2 sets.

GOAT = Fed
11-26-2011, 02:51 PM
The only 'what if' there is, is what if Rafa hadn't got injured in the Ferrer match. He would've won at least 3 slams for sure, maybe even 4.

:haha::lol:

Time Violation
11-26-2011, 03:17 PM
:haha::lol:

It's really something, isn't it? :lol: