Yannick Noah suspects Spain's success a fraud. [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Yannick Noah suspects Spain's success a fraud.

AndyNonomous
11-18-2011, 11:52 PM
Yannik Noah says that Spain's athletes are "protected" by the Spanish authorities, leading to more doping by Spanish athletes than other countries (yes, we know, the politically correct response is "they all do it").


http://www.deltaworld.org/sport/Yannick-Noah-implies-that-Spanish-athletes-dopan/

rocketassist
11-18-2011, 11:53 PM
:haha: great trolling by Noah, inaccurate or not.

Naudio Spanlatine
11-18-2011, 11:53 PM
excuse me.....:rolleyes:

Pirata.
11-19-2011, 01:56 AM
:eek:

I guess he does have a point, wasn't there a big cover-up for Contador saying that he'd eaten "contaminated meat" and he was freed of all charges or something like that?

Snowwy
11-19-2011, 02:05 AM
:eek:

I guess he does have a point, wasn't there a big cover-up for Contador saying that he'd eaten "contaminated meat" and he was freed of all charges or something like that?

Was that cover-up because he was Spanish though? Seems like a typical French newspaper type of article. They always have things like this in there.

buddyholly
11-19-2011, 02:10 AM
Who the hell is "The Delta World'' and how can they have a website in English with news from around the world, but not have anybody that speaks English on the staff? The writing is so bad it does not even make sense.

fast_clay
11-19-2011, 02:24 AM
Who the hell is "The Delta World'' and how can they have a website in English with news from around the world, but not have anybody that speaks English on the staff? The writing is so bad it does not even make sense.

yes... looks like some sort of trolling website... heya got hold of that article by the looks...

Mjau!
11-19-2011, 02:49 AM
http://www.as.com/ciclismo/video/pereiro-denuncia-persecucion-ciclismo/20111118dasdascic_1/Ves :yeah:

Guest12315544
11-19-2011, 05:36 AM
Wasn't Noah one of those one Slam Wonders :rolleyes:

Har-Tru
11-19-2011, 08:23 AM
:lol: Stop generalizing you!

:D It's ACC season and I've been quiet this year... gotta regain some ground. :cool: ;)

Har-Tru
11-19-2011, 08:28 AM
The Spanish authorities, especially the ones in cycling, are absolutely bananas indeed though... they did clear Contador because of the contaminated meat hypothesis, and his case is being heard next week in the Court of Arbitration for Sport. He might just escape though, since several sportsmen have been declared non-guilty after testing positive for the same substance. Not that I believe his excuse...

However, two days ago the same Spanish federation banned another Spanish rider, Mosquera, with the harshest punishment: 2 years, despite testing positive for a substance that is not really performance enhancing and not really in the list of true "positive substances".

They make no sense...

Just like heaven
11-19-2011, 10:06 AM
:stupid:

Boarder35m
11-19-2011, 10:30 AM
:eek:

I guess he does have a point, wasn't there a big cover-up for Contador saying that he'd eaten "contaminated meat" and he was freed of all charges or something like that?

Well, when this was published just a few weeks afterwards a german table tennis player Dimitrij Ovtcharov had the same excuse.
It was funny how the german media reacted. Whilst Contador was clearly found guilty in all newspapers Ovtcharov was a victim of criminals who poisoned some meat.

The same pattern can be found when it comes to wintersports.
If a biathlete or speed skater from Russia or some other east european country is not allowed to take part in a comepetition it is clear that he/she must have used doping whilst if the same happens to german athletes german media always blame wrong results or the adaptation to the location. :p

JolánGagó
11-19-2011, 12:20 PM
Oh Yannick... that 12-1 hurts beaucoup, doesn't it?

:spit:

Shirogane
11-19-2011, 02:20 PM
Here is the article, in French.

http://www.lemonde.fr/sport/article/2011/11/19/la-potion-magique-par-yannick-noah_1605664_3242.html

Orka_n
11-19-2011, 02:28 PM
Noah :haha:

Naudio Spanlatine
11-19-2011, 02:46 PM
noah you dumb piece of shit, no wonder the french hasnt won a slam since:o :o :o

Sapeod
11-19-2011, 03:13 PM
Noah. What a guy.

Mjau!
11-19-2011, 04:29 PM
The Spanish authorities, especially the ones in cycling, are absolutely bananas indeed though... they did clear Contador because of the contaminated meat hypothesis, and his case is being heard next week in the Court of Arbitration for Sport. He might just escape though, since several sportsmen have been declared non-guilty after testing positive for the same substance. Not that I believe his excuse...

However, two days ago the same Spanish federation banned another Spanish rider, Mosquera, with the harshest punishment: 2 years, despite testing positive for a substance that is not really performance enhancing and not really in the list of true "positive substances".

They make no sense...

:stupid: HES is a plasma-expander! That means it lowers Hb and Hct, which makes any blood testing except retics totally useless. :cuckoo:

A two year ban is the only acceptable outcome. :rolleyes:

JolánGagó
11-19-2011, 04:48 PM
Ferrer on Noah's verbal deposition:

http://www.lavanguardia.com/deportes/tenis/20111119/54239106631/ferrer-acusaciones-noah.html

"It shows utter ignorance in my opinion, for someone who used to play tennis and knows how the sport works to say such an atrocity... perhaps he said so without thinking"

"He's got a son playing NBA, where there aren't any dopping controls, he might not be one to talk..." :spit:

run envy fungus, run!

and sukit.

emotion
11-19-2011, 04:57 PM
The Spanish authorities, especially the ones in cycling, are absolutely bananas indeed though... they did clear Contador because of the contaminated meat hypothesis, and his case is being heard next week in the Court of Arbitration for Sport. He might just escape though, since several sportsmen have been declared non-guilty after testing positive for the same substance. Not that I believe his excuse...

However, two days ago the same Spanish federation banned another Spanish rider, Mosquera, with the harshest punishment: 2 years, despite testing positive for a substance that is not really performance enhancing and not really in the list of true "positive substances".

They make no sense...

They only punish lesser known people.
Keep Rusedski, ban Chela.

Har-Tru
11-19-2011, 04:57 PM
:stupid: HES is a plasma-expander! That means it lowers Hb and Hct, which makes any blood testing except retics totally useless. :cuckoo:

A two year ban is the only acceptable outcome. :rolleyes:

HES is no performance enhancing drug, which is what I said.

Har-Tru
11-19-2011, 04:59 PM
They only punish lesser known people.
Keep Rusedski, ban Chela.

Mosquera was pretty well known though, having finished second in the Vuelta (where he tested positive).

JolánGagó
11-19-2011, 05:05 PM
President of Spanish Basket Federation instructed the federation's legal services to examine Noah's article in case legal action may be taken.

Manolo Santana says "only envy can explain" Noah's words, as "when someone craves for notoriety one way to get it is attacking great, superior institutions, such as Spanish sport is".

http://www.abc.es/20111119/deportes-baloncesto/abci-saez-denuncia-noah-201111191811.html

JolánGagó
11-19-2011, 05:14 PM
Funny this very week Le Monde was sentenced by Spain Supreme Court to pay damages to FCBarcelona for linking it to dopping and Operación Puerto...

French media, always on the edge of ridicule and then stepping forward :tape:

emotion
11-19-2011, 05:16 PM
Mosquera was pretty well known though, having finished second in the Vuelta (where he tested positive).

So was Chela. Just not hugely famous

Mjau!
11-19-2011, 05:24 PM
HES is no performance enhancing drug, which is what I said.

So what, :stupid:? It's a masking agent. Do you understand what that means? :rolleyes: You might as well refuse blood testing. It's no different.

:rolleyes:

GOAT = Fed
11-19-2011, 05:27 PM
Pretty surprised he has said something like this, especially without offering any real proof or evidence :stupid:

Har-Tru
11-19-2011, 05:32 PM
So what, :stupid:? It's a masking agent. Do you understand what that means? :rolleyes: You might as well refuse blood testing. It's no different.

:rolleyes:

I understand what that means. It means Mosquera was hiding EPO with that masking agent, just like his teammate Da Pena who, unlike Mosquera, tested positive for EPO.

What I was saying is that the Spanish federation is not consistent in their decisions (like most of them anyway) and that Mosquera tested positive for a substance that doesn't necessarily carry a full suspension. In fact, Oscar Sevilla tested positive for the same substance and was banned for... 6 months!

Now off you go into my ignore list again, Miss conspiracy theorist :stupid:.

Itachi75
11-19-2011, 06:18 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news;_ylt=Ao3nSFVaOT_0N_1GqLWDQKc4v7YF?slug=ap-doping-noah

Wow, this ain't gonna be pretty!

Certinfy
11-19-2011, 06:24 PM
Legend.

GOAT = Fed
11-19-2011, 06:36 PM
''adding the only way to level the playing field would be to allow everyone to use banned drugs.''

''“How can a country (Spain) dominate sport from one day to the next?”

:lol: Sounds like he's trolling or something.

I think we've finally found a bigger clown that Saepoed :worship:

Sunset of Age
11-19-2011, 06:37 PM
Pretty surprised he has said something like this, especially without offering any real proof or evidence :stupid:

He might have been on a little too much C2H5OH, me thinks.

abraxas21
11-19-2011, 06:40 PM
Yannik Noah says that Spain's athletes are "protected" by the Spanish authorities, leading to more doping by Spanish athletes than other countries (yes, we know, the politically correct response is "they all do it").


http://www.deltaworld.org/sport/Yannick-Noah-implies-that-Spanish-athletes-dopan/

noah is saying what every true tennis fan alredy knew. i've been saying the same thing for ages and all i've gotten are bans by the clownish moderation board because of the insane stupid rules of the current legal system of MTF.

kudos to noah for denouncing this sham in spite of the pressure, corruption and extortions he must have received to keep his mouth shut. we need more people like him

GOAT = Fed
11-19-2011, 06:41 PM
He might have been on a little too much C2H5OH, me thinks.

:lol:

abraxas21
11-19-2011, 06:41 PM
one thing to take note of:

if noah was a MTF poster, he'd been banned on the spot. that tells a lot about the mugginess of the rules we have on this place

Mjau!
11-19-2011, 06:47 PM
I understand what that means. It means Mosquera was hiding EPO with that masking agent, just like his teammate Da Pena who, unlike Mosquera, tested positive for EPO.

What I was saying is that the Spanish federation is not consistent in their decisions (like most of them anyway) and that Mosquera tested positive for a substance that doesn't necessarily carry a full suspension. In fact, Oscar Sevilla tested positive for the same substance and was banned for... 6 months!

Now off you go into my ignore list again, Miss conspiracy theorist :stupid:.

Using a masking agent for blood doping should of course be treated as blood doping.

Mosquera fully deserved a 2-year ban, regardless of Sevilla's sentence. Two wrongs don't make a right! :angel:

What you call "conspiracy theories" are documented facts, corroborating witness testimonies and information from mainstream sources and highly credible sources (FBI reports, NYPD reports, 1500 architects & engineers, former CIA/FBI agents/officers/directors, world authorities on anthrax, DoD reports, the Project for the New American Century, the Office for Special Plans, pulitzer-prize winning journalists, the MSM, etc). :rolleyes:

fast_clay
11-19-2011, 08:39 PM
not sure about all the other spanish sports, but in regards to tennis the magic is in the simple numbers... massive playing population which does not celebrate junior success and/or mediocrity coupled with computer point gaining potential at senior level pretty much every playing week of the year...

there is no secret except for how raw and brutal it is to stick your nose above water... survival of the fittest in a jungle of many... very, very simple... a brutal culture indeed...

Henry Chinaski
11-19-2011, 10:22 PM
It's not like he's the only one

Pereiro blasts different perceptions of cycling and football doping

By: Cycling NewsPublished: November 19, 17:56, Updated: November 19, 17:57

Do you like this?
Oscar Pereiro (Caisse d'Epargne)
view thumbnail gallery
Doping in football not considered doping, Tour de France rider claims

Football players are applauded for doping, while cyclists are censured for it, Tour de France winner Oscar Pereiro claimed on Spanish television. The discussion grew heated as Pereiro named names of football players he claimed have doped.

Appearing on the show “Punto Pelota”, Pereiro said, “Giovanella tested positive, Gurpegui, Guardiola ... And all are because they take an energy complex. If a cyclist takes it, he has doped. Everyone at San Mamés, Balaidos, Barcelona shouts 'innocent' and I have to put on a mask to walk down the street. "

When asked about Operación Puerto, he answered that "Zidane has admitted that he had a blood transfusion in Switzerland to regenerate his body. In cycling that is [a doping] positive."

The problem, he summarized, is that it is often seen that the cyclist is done but the football player “is fighting for his club colors".

Pereiro said that he hopes that one day Eufemiano Fuentes, the point man of Operación Puerto will “hopefully one day have the courage to tell everything he knows. In Operación Puerto there were a lot of blood bags labelled European Championships, which doesn't exist in [pro men's] cycling.”

Cycling is not perfect, he conceded. "In my sport we have made fifty thousand mistakes, we are fools. That cannot be hidden". Still, at least cycling is active in the anti-doping fight, as the riders cyclists spend "10% of their salary to the fight against doping, but athletes in other sports do not."



Barcelona coached by a convicted doper.

Riosreigned
11-19-2011, 10:44 PM
Big surprise that someone of the stature of Noah is accusing the Spanish of using the "magic potion" without any evidence. This is gonna get interesting in London as all the players will surely be questioned about it.

http://www.tennis.com/articles/templates/news.aspx?articleid=15151&zoneid=25

legolandbridge
11-19-2011, 10:49 PM
He also said he's in favor of legalizing doping as a result. Pretty crazy if you ask me.

Pirata.
11-19-2011, 10:49 PM
Moya said it was an unbelievable accusation.

I'm not sure how long this thread will last here.

alter ego
11-19-2011, 10:50 PM
Spanish tennis player David Ferrer reacted, telling DPA: "Your son [Joakim Noah of the Chicago Bulls] plays in the NBA, where there are no doping controls. This is not the best person to talk, I think it’s total ignorance

Classic stuff from this spanish SOB. When you don't have anything to say just make an ad hominem attack.

rocketassist
11-19-2011, 10:56 PM
As untrue as it probably is, I love how he's made the fanboys and fangirls squirm and cry :D

Har-Tru
11-19-2011, 11:05 PM
This is another topic, but Pereiro is of course right in denouncing the double standards in doping.

Cycling is the bete noir of sports because of its doping reputation. Surely it was well deserved in the first place, but ffs, in most of the recent years there were more doping controls made in cycling than in all other main sports together. And let's not even talk about the quality of the controls... blood testing is standard in any cycling race, but rare in any other sport.

The OP took down prominent cyclists like Jan Ullrich, Ivan Basso, Alejandro Valverde, Michele Scarponi, etc. But cyclists were just a small number of the sportsmen named. What happened to the other ones?? If we go by the list of cyclists, they wouldn't all be Spanish. So who covered it up? Who silenced the whole thing?

If you're going to claim cycling is the dirtiest sport of all, then test all other sports like you test cycling. Then, sheer numbers will talk. Until then, no one can make a fair assessment.

Time Violation
11-19-2011, 11:07 PM
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=193018

Stensland
11-19-2011, 11:12 PM
noah should read up on barcelona 92 and what the whole olympic adventure on home soil has created over the past two decades. i've never understood people looking for any secret ingredients in spain's success. has there ever been a more logical boom in sports than down there? when you plant seeds, one day you're gonna harvest, it's that easy.

legolandbridge
11-19-2011, 11:21 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNo41sQbIsI

ssin
11-19-2011, 11:23 PM
Noah :haha:

btw, didn't the rastaman admit long time ago that he used to smoke ganja prior to tennis matches? :D

alter ego
11-19-2011, 11:27 PM
Pretty surprised he has said something like this, especially without offering any real proof or evidence :stupid:

No proof? Noah speaks in his article about "operacion Puerto". The doctor that got convicted for helping cyclists dope had this to say in 2006.

"FERNANDO LLAMAS

MADRID.- El médico deportivo Eufemiano Fuentes, principal encausado en la 'operación Puerto' contra el dopaje, promete "desmantelar tramas de hipócritas". Reconoce que los tratamientos que receta a los ciclistas son idénticos a los que ofrece o recomienda a equipos de fútbol, tenistas y atletas."

Otros deportes: "Habrán salido nombres de ciclistas, pero de otros deportes también, como el atletismo, el tenis o el fútbol, por decirte algunos deportes. Esos tratamientos [a equipos de fútbol], si no los he hecho los he recomendado. Me refiero a tratamientos para la ayuda a la recuperación, tratamientos biológicos para mejorar el rendimiento deportivo. Funcionan. Por supuesto que he tratado equipos de fútbol. De Primera División y de Segunda. Esos tratamientos para mejorar el rendimiento normalmente funcionan."

Gagsquet
11-19-2011, 11:35 PM
Spain...

Har-Tru
11-19-2011, 11:41 PM
The craziest part of Noah's article has been overlooked though... his call for total legislation of doping. Yeah baby!

Sri
11-19-2011, 11:48 PM
His arguments have enough loopholes so I don't think one needs to resort to personal insults.

He raises a question of Spain's overnight success and dominance in so many sports. This is the hard question to answer because the point seems valid at first glance. However, note that he doesn't have any proof, and therefore refuses to accuse specific player(s).

Secondly, to allow doping is a stupid suggestion. If the Spanish are doping, the solution is to stop them from doing so, not allowing others to dope.

fast_clay
11-19-2011, 11:52 PM
The craziest part of Noah's article has been overlooked though... his call for total legislation of doping. Yeah baby!

it is very easy after you roll a doob and have a choof innit... i don't know why it is so taboo either... i've been one of the strongest supporters of the mooted parallel Steroid League tour for some time... *exhale*... ahhh... clarity...

Stensland
11-19-2011, 11:56 PM
He raises a question of Spain's overnight success and dominance in so many sports. This is the hard question to answer because the point seems valid at first glance.

actually it doesn't. at all. it's been a progress over a certain amount of time, ranging from the early 90s leading up to the current domination. the only thing spain did was tapping into its vast human recources as a country with a huge affinity towards sports and combine it with up-to-date concepts how to develop infrastructure and training grounds. add the that a nearly perfect climate for outdoor activities and off you go. it was out in the open, literally. no secrets whatsoever, no "overnight" success.

Mjau!
11-20-2011, 12:02 AM
This is another topic, but Pereiro is of course right in denouncing the double standards in doping.

Cycling is the bete noir of sports because of its doping reputation. Surely it was well deserved in the first place, but f*s, in most of the recent years there were more doping controls made in cycling than in all other main sports together. And let's not even talk about the quality of the controls... blood testing is standard in any cycling race, but rare in any other sport.

The OP took down prominent cyclists like Jan Ullrich, Ivan Basso, Alejandro Valverde, Michele Scarponi, etc. But cyclists were just a small number of the sportsmen named. What happened to the other ones?? If we go by the list of cyclists, they wouldn't all be Spanish. So who covered it up? Who silenced the whole thing?

If you're going to claim cycling is the dirtiest sport of all, then test all other sports like you test cycling. Then, sheer numbers will talk. Until then, no one can make a fair assessment.

And yet, you wish to destroy all blood testing by not punishing HES-cheaters. :sad:

Mjau!
11-20-2011, 12:07 AM
I'd like to call attention to my outstanding GM-thread, 'A short history of drugs in tennis', featuring amazing :eek: information that I competently borrowed from others.

http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=168510

star
11-20-2011, 12:24 AM
There's already a big thread on doping in GM. Use the search function.

Thanks Mr. Moderator.

philosophicalarf
11-20-2011, 12:24 AM
Ferrer's retort is a fair point ....... except tennis basically has no anti-doping controls either, when you look at the details.

So many comically large loopholes, completely useless out-of-competition testing that a child could evade, dependent on useless urine testing rather than blood/hair, almost no EPO testing at all, no HGH testing, etc etc etc.


Noah also is correct about Fuentes. The guy was treating countless top Spanish athletes - for example, Le Monde has the list of the entire Barcelona team and what drugs they were on (he also treated tennis players btw). What happened to the whole thing? Buried. Never seen again.

Topspindoctor
11-20-2011, 12:26 AM
Who the hell is Noah and why should anyone give a fuck what he thinks?

Mjau!
11-20-2011, 12:28 AM
Thanks Mr. Moderator.

Well, excuse me for desiring a well-structured forum, Mr. fancy gas ball. :rolleyes:

star
11-20-2011, 12:30 AM
Ferrer's retort is a fair point ....... except tennis basically has no anti-doping controls either, when you look at the details.

So many comically large loopholes, completely useless out-of-competition testing that a child could evade, dependent on useless urine testing rather than blood/hair, almost no EPO testing at all, no HGH testing, etc etc etc.

Hair is so easily tampered with. I’m not fond of hair testing. Blood has a very short window, but is good for somethings esp. high red blood cells.

I agree that the lack of EPO testing is a crime.

Also, I don’t have a problem with Ferrer taking a low blow because to accuse each and every Spanish athlete of doping without any evidence other than success is pretty low, imo.

And then the call for French athletes to also dope makes the whole thing comical.

star
11-20-2011, 12:31 AM
Well, excuse me for desiring a well-structured forum, Mr. fancy gas ball. :rolleyes:
:lol: If you dish it, you gotta take it.

Mjau!
11-20-2011, 12:33 AM
Nah, uh! Does not! :ras:

Mjau!
11-20-2011, 12:35 AM
Here is the thread I had in mind :yeah:

http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=168510

tennis2tennis
11-20-2011, 01:22 AM
Ticker - Saturday, November 19, 2011
In an editorial in Le Monde, former Roland Garros champion and French Davis and Fed Cup captain Yannick Noah lashes out at Spanish sporting culture, and alleges that the reason for the rise of their Southern neighbor’s success may have to do with taking a “magic potion.”

"When I still milled around on the courts with my racket, we weren't ridiculous, far from it, against our Spanish friends," Noah wrote. "Same on the soccer fields, the basketballs halls or on the roads of the Tour de France. Today they are running faster than us, are much more stronger and only leave us the bread crumbs. Compared to us, it's simple, we look like dwarves. Did we miss something?

"How can a nation dominate virtually overnight sport in such a way? Did they discover some avant-garde techniques or training facilities that nobody before them had imagined? I have searched and didn't find any documented evidence of such innovations… Today if you don't have the magic potion, it's hard to win…In the last years they may have abused a bit of it, considering the avalanche of positive tests… You know what they talk about at the sports bars: those who win are those who can slip out of the net, those who are quicker than the controllers and use the non-detectable drugs….In Spain, the Fuentes case, the biggest scandal in the history of the sport [where a Spanish doctor was arrested for allegedly aiding famous cyclists and other with blood doping], they did ‘nothing.’ Maybe because, over there, sport is so important its heroes are more protected…Of course you have to apply 'innocent until proven guilty,' but nobody is fooled. The best attitude would be to accept doping. Let everyone have his magic potion."

Spanish tennis player David Ferrer reacted, telling DPA: "Your son [Joakim Noah of the Chicago Bulls] plays in the NBA, where there are no doping controls. This is not the best person to talk, I think it’s total ignorance. For a person who has played tennis and knows how the sport works to say that is outrageous with reason or thinking."

On Twitter, another Spanish player, Feliciano Lopez said that he was disappointed that one of his onetime heroes would say such stupid things.

Former Wimbledon champion Manolo Santana added: "It seems out of place. Spain is now the leading power of sport and statements like that are not good for him and not for sport in general...When people want fame, the only way to have it's messing with a person or an entity as large as Spain in sport. In basketball, soccer, tennis, Formula One, athletics -- in all sports Spain is at the forefront."

Naudio Spanlatine
11-20-2011, 01:28 AM
they are right, yannick needs to stfu with his stupid comments he really is making a bad name for himself:rolleyes: :facepalm: :o:o:o

philosophicalarf
11-20-2011, 04:34 AM
If you're going to claim cycling is the dirtiest sport of all, then test all other sports like you test cycling. Then, sheer numbers will talk. Until then, no one can make a fair assessment.

Indeed.

Problem is, if they applied that to soccer and tennis, I rather suspect the sports would be ruined for a while. So they'll stick with the current setups, where it's patently obvious how to evade the testers, only complete morons get caught, and the players are free to dope as much as they like out of competition.

But on the other hand, baseball survived. Turns out all the rumours that everyone was doping there were true, as is inevitable in any modern sport without proper testing. Yet the sport went through the wringer, and still exists.

Just like heaven
11-20-2011, 05:42 AM
Le Monde has the list of the entire Barcelona team and what drugs they were on (he also treated tennis players btw). What happened to the whole thing? Buried. Never seen again.

No. Barcelona sued them and they won the lawsuit.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/soccer/2008-01-15-572480161_x.htm

Mjau!
11-20-2011, 06:00 AM
No. Barcelona sued them and they won the lawsuit.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/soccer/2008-01-15-572480161_x.htm

Spanish court... :angel:

Pirata.
11-20-2011, 07:51 AM
Ferrer on Noah's verbal deposition:

Wow, David :eek:

On Twitter, another Spanish player, Feliciano Lopez said that he was disappointed that one of his onetime heroes would say such stupid things.

:sad:

cardio
11-20-2011, 08:11 AM
Well, when this was published just a few weeks afterwards a german table tennis player Dimitrij Ovtcharov had the same excuse.
It was funny how the german media reacted. Whilst Contador was clearly found guilty in all newspapers Ovtcharov was a victim of criminals who poisoned some meat.

The same pattern can be found when it comes to wintersports.
If a biathlete or speed skater from Russia or some other east european country is not allowed to take part in a comepetition it is clear that he/she must have used doping whilst if the same happens to german athletes german media always blame wrong results or the adaptation to the location. :p

It is everywhere the same . Estonian cross-country skier Veerpalu was tested positive HGH and found guilty by FIS, banned for 3 years. But he is kinda national hero in Estonia, twice Olympic Champion, twice World Champion .You could say he is ( was ) same in Estonia what Contador is for Spain.

You couldnt believe what happened next. Everybody and their grandma ( including Estonian skiing Federation ! ) started defend him :

1) they said his body is something special ,genetic mutation he has, produces HGH differently than in bodies of 99.5% other athletes

2) testing method is not reliable,

3)heavy practice and being in Alpine room fucked up results...
... and so on and so on.

Now the case is in Court of Arbitration for Sport, they spend huge amounts of money on lawyers.His fans made a support group in Facebook, and collected more than 60 000 supporters.There is even theory that this is all Norwegian conspiracy, who was jealous that skier from small ex-soviet country won so much gold in classic style,gold which always before belonged to Norwegian skiers ! Whats missing is story that aliens abducted him in night and injected artificial HGH to experiment with him.

I guess it is people`s nature : we are eager to point fingers, when someone strange is caught, but when he is " our guy",lot of people are just in denial, they cant and dont want to believe what lab results show.

JolánGagó
11-20-2011, 09:05 AM
Toni Nadal on Noah's verbal turd:

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/2011/11/19/tenis/1321740650.html?a=56e8559c91e776e1a4feb9248d451b7d&t=1321781965&numero=

"Evildoers always think the worst of others. Im shocked that someone of doubtful integrity dares to accuse Spanish sportpeople. I totally don't understand."

"Im not calling him Sir because someone talking like that isn't one. If he approaches my nephew to greet I expect Rafa to tell him politely what he thinks of him"

"Xavi, Iniesta, Ramos or Casillas among others are obviously very clean and they are world champs. Im sure David Ferrer takes nothing and I know that Rafa has never in his life taken anything"

"It isn't merely envy but also sheer rashness. You may be envious of someone but then at least keep it to yourself. It's very wrong for him to talk like that, I've been told many stories about him. It's weird that someone of doubtful credentials allows himself to cast doubts on others."

Just like heaven
11-20-2011, 09:38 AM
Spanish court... :angel:

Doesn't matter. Le Monde appealed the decision and the final verdict came out this week.
Barcelona won the lawsuit (http://latestsports-update.blogspot.com/2011/11/fc-barcelona-win-battle-against-le.html) and this is probably the reason why Noah wrote that piece of garbage for the same newspaper.

JolánGagó
11-20-2011, 09:40 AM
Spanish court... :angel:

Is there something you know about Spanish courts that we don't? please tell...

Har-Tru
11-20-2011, 09:52 AM
And yet, you wish to destroy all blood testing by not punishing HES-cheaters. :sad:

I should report you for accusing me falsely. I have stated facts, not made any judgement. Of course HES should carry a 2-year ban.

Mjau!
11-20-2011, 11:01 AM
I should report you for accusing me falsely. I have stated facts, not made any judgement. Of course HES should carry a 2-year ban.

Yes, you did.

The Spanish authorities, especially the ones in cycling, are absolutely bananas indeed though... they did clear Contador because of the contaminated meat hypothesis, and his case is being heard next week in the Court of Arbitration for Sport. He might just escape though, since several sportsmen have been declared non-guilty after testing positive for the same substance. Not that I believe his excuse...

However, two days ago the same Spanish federation banned another Spanish rider, Mosquera, with the harshest punishment: 2 years, despite testing positive for a substance that is not really performance enhancing and not really in the list of true "positive substances".

They make no sense...

HES is masking agent for blood doping and should therefår be treated as such, which is far more serious than a weight loss drug. Furthermår, Contador's ultra-low values and negative test the previous day, proves that the positive was not a result of deliberate ingestion of clenbuterol.

Mjau!
11-20-2011, 11:03 AM
Is there something you know about Spanish courts that we don't? please tell...

You don't expect me to have an answe, but I do! :D

They blocked the Operacion Puerto investigation! :o

Your rhetorical question just backfired! :wavey:

Har-Tru
11-20-2011, 11:12 AM
Yes, you did.



HES is masking agent for blood doping and should therefår be treated as such, which is far more serious than a weight loss drug. Furthermår, Contador's ultra-low values and negative test the previous day, proves that the positive was not a result of deliberate ingestion of clenbuterol.

What happened is sadly sometimes irrelevant in court.

Fact is, HES (for some reason) is in a sort of legal limbo as far as illegal substances go. I'm not going to pretend I understand what all of that is about.

On the other hand, clembuterol is a standard banned substance with no minimum threshold.

Mjau!
11-20-2011, 11:22 AM
What happened is sadly sometimes irrelevant in court.

Fact is, HES (for some reason) is in a sort of legal limbo as far as illegal substances go. I'm not going to pretend I understand what all of that is about.

Okay, but there are precedents for the maximum length ban. I know of at least 6 skiers who were suspended for 2 years.

On the other hand, clembuterol is a standard banned substance with no minimum threshold.

There's still the "no significant fault" thingy that saved Richie and a bunch of clenbuterol failures... :shrug:

JolánGagó
11-20-2011, 01:28 PM
You don't expect me to have an answe, but I do! :D

They blocked the Operacion Puerto investigation! :o


"blocked"? you obviously have no idea of what you're shitting from the mouth.

GSMnadal
11-20-2011, 01:40 PM
Do people really think Spain won the football World Cup because of doping? I mean, I can understand the talk about cycling and tennis, but football? It's not like Spain's football is a physical brand of football, based on body strength or stamina...

Their whole game revolves arround position play and applying insane amounts of pressure as a team. They need ridiculous stamina for that.

Corey Feldman
11-20-2011, 04:05 PM
gotta hand it to Noah

he knew exactly the button to press to send the Spaniards nuts and they didnt fail to deliver - uncle Toni sounded in tears during his statement :lol::worship:

Har-Tru
11-20-2011, 04:06 PM
Spain running their competition into the ground? Did we watch the same World Cup???

JolánGagó
11-20-2011, 04:08 PM
gotta hand it to Noah

he knew exactly the button to press to send the Spaniards nuts and they didnt fail to deliver - uncle Toni sounded in tears during his statement :lol::worship:

Just a lame envious troll, exactly the same as you. But while he uses Le Monde, MTF is your habitat.

Corey Feldman
11-20-2011, 04:19 PM
next time Spain win a golfing major

Har-Tru
11-20-2011, 05:02 PM
next time Spain win a golfing major

1999 > 1936 :cool:

Roddickominator
11-20-2011, 05:07 PM
Noah should not have singled out one country....many athletes and many countries have players doing this type of thing. Singling out Spain just makes it sound like sour grapes.

He is definitely right though, there are some Spaniards that seem like obvious dopers....along with several other top players.

Stensland
11-20-2011, 05:54 PM
yeah but spain seems like the least probable country on the list of potential doping offenders, judging by the way its sportsmen worked their way up to the top. other sports superpowers have emerged over the last century and many of them have simply skyrocketed out of thin air. spain on the other hand has gradually climbed up the ladder, bit by bit.

do people forget its national teams' track record? it's not like spain used to be some hapless amateur second-tier team that got brutally beaten up time and time again. the only thing that prevented them from achieving glory during tournaments prior to 2008 was some sort of mental roadblock. it was just a matter of time to navigate around it, sooner or later the negative bubble was about to pop anyways.

the same goes for tennis. what about moya? bruguera? corretja? noah makes it sound as if nadal was the first spaniard ever to hold a major title.

Corey Feldman
11-20-2011, 06:06 PM
leave the spanish alone

its all that contaminated meat

star
11-20-2011, 09:03 PM
http://www.tennis.com/articles/templates/news.aspx?articleid=15157&zoneid=25

:lol: :lol:

abraxas21
11-20-2011, 09:07 PM
http://www.tennis.com/articles/templates/news.aspx?articleid=15157&zoneid=25

:lol: :lol:

llodra :facepalm:

it's more stupid to feel that you have to apologize over the comments of someone you have nothing in common with, except the nationality.

star
11-20-2011, 09:12 PM
llodra :facepalm:

it's more stupid to feel that you have to apologize over the comments of someone you have nothing in common with, except the nationality.

Sometimes we are embarrassed for our countrymen. I know I have that feeling many times.

I think he wanted to clarify that he didn’t share Noah’s sentiments. That’s all. I mean sometimes saying “I’m sorry “ about such and such isn’t actually an apology, but rather a commiseration. Such as, I’m sorry about your relative’s death, etc.

Matt01
11-20-2011, 10:15 PM
noah is saying what every true tennis fan alredy knew. i've been saying the same thing for ages and all i've gotten are bans by the clownish moderation board because of the insane stupid rules of the current legal system of MTF.

kudos to noah for denouncing this sham in spite of the pressure, corruption and extortions he must have received to keep his mouth shut. we need more people like him


:spit:

Agrajag
11-20-2011, 10:55 PM
Wrong!

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/archive/southafrica2010/statistics/teams/distance.html

Just having a quick look, Ghana, USA, Japan, Australia, Portugal... all of them ran more metres per games played than Spain, despite some of them not even playing extra time!

My humble apoligies. I must have shut down my brain for a moment there.

shiaben
11-21-2011, 12:30 AM
Noah's son is an amazing center for the NBA.

But onto the discussion, hopefully the Spanish and French, can stop pointing fingers at each other.

@Sweet Cleopatra
11-21-2011, 03:10 AM
Rafael Nadal thinks Yannick Noah should be banned from commenting in the media after the French tennis great wrote a newspaper column accusing Spanish athletes of widespread doping.

Nadal reacted angrily Sunday when asked about Noah's claim in Saturday's edition of Le Monde newspaper that French athletes no longer had a chance against their Spanish opponents because they "don't have the magic potion."

"This guy deserve not (to) write anymore in the newspaper," Nadal said. "What he said is completely stupid."

Nadal, speaking at the ATP World Tour Finals, added that Noah's remarks were "totally stupid" because of the amount of doping tests conducted on athletes throughout the season.

He said Noah's thoughts were like those of a "kid."

Fellow Spaniard David Ferrer, who is competing with Nadal at the ATP finals, also condemned Noah's comments, as have Barcelona soccer coach Pep Guardiola and French Minister for Sports David Douillet.

Noah, the 1983 French Open champion, suggested that Spanish athletes were consistently more well-built than their French rivals and said they must be doping -- without offering any other proof.

"How can a country (Spain) dominate sport from one day to the next?" Noah asked. "Had they discovered avant-garde training techniques and methods that no one else imagined?"

Noah even proposed the idea that the French authorities should relax their rules on doping in order to keep up.

Nadal, a 10-time Grand Slam champion, said Noah's comments reflected badly on the former tennis star's home country, not Spain.

"The image of the country when one guy, important guy like him, say that, is terrible."

The Associated Press

Naudio Spanlatine
11-21-2011, 03:21 AM
Cleo, maybe you should put this in this thread;)

http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=193018&page=8

WhataQT
11-21-2011, 05:34 AM
France's Noah: Doping Expose or a Dope? Nadal Says Dope
By Nick Georgandis

(November 20, 2011) France's Yannick Noah, the 1983 Wimbledon winner, has remained strongly in the public eye long past his playing days because of his music career and his charitable work.

Now 51, Noah is back in the spotlight following his interview Saturday in which he theorized that the success of Spain's contingency on the ATP tour is due to doping.

Noah knows more than a little something about drugs, having admitted to using marijuana himself before taking the court in 1981. In the time since, he has said that amphetamines are a top problem in the game, since they can be used as performance enhancers.

Noah told French newspaper Le Monde that players from his native France can't compete with the Spanish because the French have more strict testing.

"How can a country dominate (the) sport from one day to the next?" Noah asked in the interview. "Had they discovered avant-garde training techniques and methods that no one else imagined?"

Spain currently has 13 players ranked in the Top 100, including six in the top 30. Spain's population is a little more than 46 million. By contrast, Noah's homeland of France has 11 players ranked in the Top 100 and four in the Top 30 with a population of 65 million.

Ironically, Noah's solution isn't that Spain should have more stringent testing, but that France should loosen up.

"If you don't have the magic potion, it's difficult to win,'' he said.

He said the buzz in sports circles was that the only way to win was to stay one step ahead of the capabilities of the anti-doping tests.

"We're not being treated in the same way as the majority of our adversaries from other countries,'' he said. "The best attitude to adopt is to accept doping. And then everyone will have the magic potion.''

Noah might know a thing or two about doping, but that comment makes him look like an expert on being a dope.

Anyone in the position of celebrity should have enough common sense to avoid making comments like these in public, particularly when they are a role model for children who would like to grow up to be professional athletes.

France's Minister for Sports, David Douillet, was quick to strike out against Noah's comments.

"What are we saying in reality when we want to institutionalize doping? We imagine that our children will die at 40 or that 12-year-old kids will take pills in the locker room, that's what that means,'' Douillet said on France 2 television.

Noah did not elaborate on what sort of doping the Spaniards are supposedly involved in, but of the 26 more famous cases of doping in the sport's modern history - three involve Spaniards, albeit two of them women.

At the ATP-World Tour Finals, Rafael Nadal made comments about Noah's accusations, "What's can I say? That's going to be difficult to explain what I feel in English. This guy deserve not write anymore in the newspaper, you know. What he said is completely stupid and he knows better than nobody. Say that today is a totally stupid thing because you know how many anti doping controls we are having during all the season year by year. So, in my opinion, his article, what he writed, was from a kid. And when one kid say something, is not painful for us. So that's what I feel. I don't know how to say in English, but especially I think that's worst for French, for France. Is worst for his country than for our country, in my opinion, because the image of the country when one guy, important guy like him, say that, is terrible."

http://www.tennisnow.com/News/France-s-Noah--Doping-Expose-or-a-Dope--Nadal-Says.aspx

WhataQT
11-21-2011, 05:41 AM
Updated: November 20, 2011, 10:18 PM ET
Rafael Nadal upset at Yannick Noah



Associated Press

LONDON -- Rafael Nadal thinks Yannick Noah should be banned from commenting in the media after the French tennis great wrote a newspaper column accusing Spanish athletes of widespread doping.

Nadal reacted angrily Sunday when asked about Noah's claim in Saturday's edition of Le Monde newspaper that French athletes no longer had a chance against their Spanish opponents because they "don't have the magic potion."

"This guy deserve not (to) write anymore in the newspaper," Nadal said. "What he said is completely stupid."

Nadal, speaking at the ATP World Tour Finals, added that Noah's remarks were "totally stupid" because of the amount of doping tests conducted on athletes throughout the season.

He said Noah's thoughts were like those of a "kid."

Fellow Spaniard David Ferrer, who is competing with Nadal at the ATP finals, also condemned Noah's comments, as have Barcelona soccer coach Pep Guardiola and French Minister for Sports David Douillet.

Noah, the 1983 French Open champion, suggested that Spanish athletes were consistently more well-built than their French rivals and said they must be doping -- without offering any other proof.

"How can a country (Spain) dominate sport from one day to the next?" Noah asked. "Had they discovered avant-garde training techniques and methods that no one else imagined?"

Noah even proposed the idea that the French authorities should relax their rules on doping in order to keep up.

Nadal, a 10-time Grand Slam champion, said Noah's comments reflected badly on the former tennis star's home country, not Spain.

"The image of the country when one guy, important guy like him, say that, is terrible."


http://espn.go.com/tennis/story/_/id/7263074/rafael-nadal-angered-yannick-noah-comments-doping

vincayou
11-21-2011, 01:32 PM
To be honest, he's telling exactly what many people think. And many wonder how something like "Operation Puerto" has been simply buried. This can only make people more suspicious rightly or wrongly.

Sudden massive success from a country in the past has always ended tainted with proof of a doping system (Communist countries, USA). Even France had one at some point.

What is funny though is that most spanish anwsers are "we work more". But doping is essentially used to be able to "work more" nowadays (longer and harder trainings, faster recovery time, etc...). I suggest them to use a different answer :D

Regarding sports, I don't think that spanish footballers are more doped than any other. Sport is too globalized now and doping is probably done at club level essentially. Tennis, I don't know. Basket, I'm not a specialist.
But spanish cycling is for me a dead cert. No success at all in Tdf (not even close unless you go back to Bahamontes) until the arrival of EPO in the 90s and since that, they win it pretty much every year with many different athletes. Too good to be true IMO.

Castafiore
11-21-2011, 01:44 PM
Just because many think in a specific way, that doesn't make it a fact either.
What a majority believes is not always the truth.

Doping is an international problem. To point at one country in such a sweeping way with nothing but suspicions and "I'm not alone in thinking that" is wrong.

Doping in cycling is a problem in many countries. Not just Spain. One of the biggest cycling doping scandals was a French case and one of the main culprits was still seen as a hero by many afterwards (Virenque).

If Noah wanted to make a case for legalising doping, he would have been smart to stay away from pointing fingers across the border because he dragged the discussion down to dirty tabloid level.

Furthermore, the success in Spain is not sudden and it's not in every sport either.
For example, the Olympics 2008, number of medals by country:
France has the 10th spot in that ranking. Spain 15th.

Naudio Spanlatine
11-21-2011, 02:51 PM
to pick at the whole country of Spain for doping is absolutely ridiculous for anyone including Yannick, if you want to tell people to stop doping dont start pointing fingers at one particular country, he needs to think before he judges another one country for doping or anything

cobalt60
11-21-2011, 03:37 PM
to pick at the whole country of Spain for doping is absolutely ridiculous for anyone including Yannick, if you want to tell people to stop doping dont start pointing fingers at one particular country, he needs to think before he judges another one country for doping or anything

Maybe he needed to just think first. Many open their mouths way to wide for their foot to fit. He isn't alone. Happens on MTF all the time :p

Naudio Spanlatine
11-21-2011, 05:09 PM
Maybe he needed to just think first. Many open their mouths way to wide for their foot to fit. He isn't alone. Happens on MTF all the time :p
I kno right!!!!!! :haha:

MariaV
11-21-2011, 05:11 PM
Spain running their competition into the ground? Did we watch the same World Cup???

Naaah, he didn't watch it. ;)

Har-Tru
11-21-2011, 05:14 PM
To be honest, he's telling exactly what many people think. And many wonder how something like "Operation Puerto" has been simply buried. This can only make people more suspicious rightly or wrongly.

Sudden massive success from a country in the past has always ended tainted with proof of a doping system (Communist countries, USA). Even France had one at some point.

What is funny though is that most spanish anwsers are "we work more". But doping is essentially used to be able to "work more" nowadays (longer and harder trainings, faster recovery time, etc...). I suggest them to use a different answer :D

Regarding sports, I don't think that spanish footballers are more doped than any other. Sport is too globalized now and doping is probably done at club level essentially. Tennis, I don't know. Basket, I'm not a specialist.
But spanish cycling is for me a dead cert. No success at all in Tdf (not even close unless you go back to Bahamontes) until the arrival of EPO in the 90s and since that, they win it pretty much every year with many different athletes. Too good to be true IMO.

Blatant lying should not be free...

Where has this myth come from, that Spanish success is so sudden? I can't think of a better example of a continuous and gradual improvement of sporting prowess.

If you're going to make such accusations, back them up with evidence or shut up.


The statement about Spanish cycling is even more ridiculous... :rolleyes: no success at all in TdF, not even close unless you go back to Bahamontes until the 90s, uh?

Luis Ocaña, 1973 winner and biggest rival of the great Merckx, was on his way to beating him in 1971 when he crashed.

Pedro Delgado, 1988 winner.

Julio Muñoz, polka dot jersey winner three times in the 60s, plus Trueba in 1933, Berrendero in 1936, Loroño in 1953, Aurelio Puente in 1968, Cruces in 1973, Perurena in 1974.

Plus several multiple stage winners of course.

And that's limiting ourselves to the TdF, which is understandable coming from a citizen of the ultimate chauvinist country.

In other races we might mention Miguel Poblet winning the Milan-San Remo twice in the 1950s and being second in the Paris-Roubaix, plus being the first and one of only three riders in history to win stages in all three Grand Tours (including twenty in the Giro!). And Fuente almost beating Merckx in the Giro several times and winning several mountain stages. Fuente won the mountains jersey 4 times, and Andrés Oliva twice also in the 1970s.

So there!

AllezUSA
11-22-2011, 02:22 AM
Toni Nadal on Noah's verbal turd:

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/2011/11/19/tenis/1321740650.html?a=56e8559c91e776e1a4feb9248d451b7d&t=1321781965&numero=

"Evildoers always think the worst of others. Im shocked that someone of doubtful integrity dares to accuse Spanish sportpeople. I totally don't understand."

"Im not calling him Sir because someone talking like that isn't one. If he approaches my nephew to greet I expect Rafa to tell him politely what he thinks of him"

"Xavi, Iniesta, Ramos or Casillas among others are obviously very clean and they are world champs. Im sure David Ferrer takes nothing and I know that Rafa has never in his life taken anything"

"It isn't merely envy but also sheer rashness. You may be envious of someone but then at least keep it to yourself. It's very wrong for him to talk like that, I've been told many stories about him. It's weird that someone of doubtful credentials allows himself to cast doubts on others."


http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2009/9/20/128979699436883443.jpg

abraxas21
11-22-2011, 05:54 AM
Toni Nadal on Noah's verbal turd:

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/2011/11/19/tenis/1321740650.html?a=56e8559c91e776e1a4feb9248d451b7d&t=1321781965&numero=

"Evildoers always think the worst of others. Im shocked that someone of doubtful integrity dares to accuse Spanish sportpeople"

:lol: at the obvious contradiction in those 2 sentences. can't believe some nadaltards actually admire this man for his alleged wisdom and intelligence. dude is a mug coach.

Echoes
11-22-2011, 08:22 AM
May I please have an explanation for the 2 deleted posts of mine on this thread (1 yesterday and 1 this morning). I'd be very much obliged.

In the second one I did even accused anybody of doping.

And I really don't have time to post so much, so please a quick reply and it's all over ...

And no deletion, for Christ's sake ...

Corey Feldman
11-22-2011, 12:28 PM
mine deleted as well

probably El Whitlero

abraxas21
11-22-2011, 12:31 PM
there are bad spirits amongst us. that's the only reason i can think of to explain the massive dissapeareance of my posts at times

AndyNonomous
11-22-2011, 02:01 PM
Christophe Rochus comments on Noah's comments (in Wallonian).

http://www.lanouvellegazette.be/sports/tennis/2011-11-21/christophe-rochus-yannick-noah-ne-fait-que-dire-la-verite-919182.shtml

Anybody out there that can translate Wallonian ? :angel:

AndyNonomous
11-22-2011, 02:04 PM
Some others who agree with Noah :


- Dr. Jean Pierre Modenard. (http://plus.lefigaro.fr/note/legalizing-the-magic-potion-in-the-sports-world-20111121-605195)

“We can’t actually say he’s wrong on this point, because we have similar suspicions about Spanish athletes,”

Of course, he is just another "jealous Frenchman".


- Travis Tygart (Head of US anti doping agency). (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2033444/Nick-Harris-Britain-takes-gold-comes-testing-drugs.html)

Tygart says the performances of athletes from Jamaica, Russia and Spain are compromised because drug testing in those countries is not stringent enough and does not involve out-of-competition and no-notice testing, or tests for EPO and human growth hormone.

Of course he is American, and "Americans are a bunch of dopers and shouldn't lecture others about it".


- Pat McQuaid (head of UCI - Cycling's equivalent of the ITF). (http://road.cc/content/news/25059-mcquaid-spain-must-get-its-house-order)
"There is a problem in Spain because ... a large percentage of our doping cases come from Spain. There doesn't seem to be, so far, the will to tackle that in Spain and that really needs to come from the government down."

Of course it is "just a cycling problem".

-Pat McQuaid (UCI again) (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid-spanish-poltical-pressure-made-contador-appeal-necessary)
UCI president Pat McQuaid has explained that the political pressure exerted on the Spanish Cycling Federation during its deliberations on the Alberto Contador Clenbuterol case compelled the UCI to appeal the matter to the Court of Arbitration for Sport in order to ensure a fair and credible outcome.

Of course he is just "another drunk Irishman".




- We can ignore them if "they are just fans, they don't know what is going on inside".
- They are "just journalists, journalists are stupid".
- They have a "chip on their shoulder".
- They are "just jealous Frenchmen".
- They "smoke pot, and are stoned".
- They are "crazy conspiracy theorists".
- It's "just cycling".
- They "all do it".
- He's "just a bitter Fedtard".
- "I am smart, and the accusers are stupid".

These are all just ways humans dismiss what they don't want to believe.

It's spelled D.E.N.I.A.L, not D.E.N.I.L.E.

There is a massive circumstantial case against Spain (my postings of these have been deleted here).

Castafiore
11-22-2011, 02:21 PM
Christophe Rochus comments on Noah's comments (in Wallonian).

http://www.lanouvellegazette.be/sports/tennis/2011-11-21/christophe-rochus-yannick-noah-ne-fait-que-dire-la-verite-919182.shtml

Anybody out there that can translate Wallonian ? :angel:
Not worth it.

Christophe Rochus is known for having a major chip on his shoulder and as a result, talking without thinking things through.


Example:
Il n'y a pas que les Espagnols qui font du sport de haut niveau. Et pourquoi sont-ils subitement tous devant aujourd'hui?
(my) translation:
Not only Spaniards do sports on a high level. And why are they suddenly at the top today?
This is utter rubbish.

It's not sudden. I have no idea why a person with more than two active braincells and the ability to do some research would say that.
Spaniards are not at the top in all sports.

Other than that, Rochus does not totally back Noah up.
Noah wants to legalise all doping.
Rochus doesn't because he considers it a great risk to the health of athletes.

Har-Tru
11-23-2011, 04:22 PM
The trial against Eufemiano Fuentes and other six people accused in the Operacion Puerto case is about to begin.

Yes, in Spain. Yes, in a Spanish court.



But whatever.

AndyNonomous
11-23-2011, 09:56 PM
Number of spanish medals at the Olympics:

-1900: 1
-1904: n/a
-1908: n/a
-1912: n/a
-1920: 2
-1924: 0
-1928: 1
-1932: 1
-1936: n/a
-1948: 1
-1952: 1
-1956: n/a
-1960: 1
-1964: 0
-1968: 0
-1972: 1
-1976: 2
-1980: 6 (Boycotted Olympics, medal numbers inflated)
-1984: 5 (Boycotted Olympics, medal numbers inflated)
-1988: 4

"I know what happened at Barcelona '92 and I'm a Pandora's Box that, if opened one day, could bring down sport," (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/summer/2008-11-19-2670320706_x.htm)

-1992: 22
-1996: 17
-2000: 11
-2004: 19
-2008: 18

bokehlicious
12-13-2011, 10:12 AM
Thank you Yannick. Always admired the guy :worship:

_maxi
12-15-2011, 06:43 PM
Good posts Andy

Stensland
12-15-2011, 07:48 PM
people should simply read up on barcelona 1992 and its ramifications. this is getting more tedious by the day.

HKz
12-17-2011, 11:20 AM
Doping and shit is always such a messy situation -.-

one day there will be a new non-corrupt way to test every sportsman on the planet that is quick and easy!

...right

samanosuke
12-17-2011, 11:22 AM
noah speaking what everybody else thinking :shrug:

Chirag
12-17-2011, 12:29 PM
noah speaking what everybody else thinking :shrug:

absolutely not .I will never believe a person is guilty until shown proof

samanosuke
02-07-2012, 03:59 PM
:haha: :haha:

2qUxcmH595s

Naudio Spanlatine
02-07-2012, 05:37 PM
absolutely not .I will never believe a person is guilty until shown proof

Dont persuade samo other wise, the guy hates RAFA and the rest of the spaniards with him:o :lol:

Kiedis
02-07-2012, 06:44 PM
The "Gasquet Defense"™ don't work this time. What is this mediocre frenchie view about the Gasquet verdict?

Gagsquet
02-07-2012, 06:47 PM
:lol: Contador is doped as hell. It's obvious. Gasquet was innocent of course. Deal with it :)

bokehlicious
02-08-2012, 07:19 AM
:haha: :haha:

2qUxcmH595s

Hahahaha :D

samanosuke
02-08-2012, 04:53 PM
Spanish tennis federation decided to make a law suit against Canal+ because of this video :haha:

Sauletekis
02-08-2012, 04:59 PM
Spanish tennis federation decided to make a law suit against Canal+ because of this video :haha:

They used iligally their logo... :rolleyes:

abraxas21
02-09-2012, 12:48 AM
love the french

AndyNonomous
07-16-2012, 04:09 PM
The Germans agree (that all of Spain's "accomplishments" since 1990 are a massive FRAUD). (http://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/spaniens-spitzensport-weltliche-hilfe-fuer-die-generation-gold-1.1410286)

Corey Feldman
07-16-2012, 04:18 PM
the Dr Fuentes generation?

Kiedis
07-16-2012, 07:17 PM
German tabloids trying to divert attention from the real scandal reverting to the old and trite case of Dr. Fuentes.

Blatter hints 2006 World Cup hosting rights were bought
http://www.goal.com/en/news/745/fifa/2012/07/15/3243524/blatter-hints-2006-world-cup-hosting-rights-were-bought

Cyclists compete doped, we all know that, the Spaniards and the rest. The last doper caught at 'Tour of France' was French, but sure Noah don't make any issue about this. Moreover, except in cycling Spain sucks in every other sport where raw physicality is more important that the technical or tactical departaments like for example athletics, swimming, weightlifting, etc...

But whatever, trolls gonna trolling.

Arkulari
07-16-2012, 09:09 PM
German tabloids trying to divert attention from the real scandal reverting to the old and trite case of Dr. Fuentes.

Blatter hints 2006 World Cup hosting rights were bought
http://www.goal.com/en/news/745/fifa/2012/07/15/3243524/blatter-hints-2006-world-cup-hosting-rights-were-bought

Cyclists compete doped, we all know that, the Spaniards and the rest. The last doper caught at 'Tour of France' was French, but sure Noah don't make any issue about this. Moreover, except in cycling Spain sucks in every other sport where raw physicality is more important that the technical or tactical departaments like for example athletics, swimming, weightlifting, etc...

But whatever, trolls gonna trolling.

Exactly.

Doesn't matter that there's a huge work done in the youth levels in several sports in the country... :rolleyes:

Kiedis
07-16-2012, 09:52 PM
^^ People should know about some issues in the recent history of Spain.

First, Barcelona Olympics. This meant a huge boost for PROFESSIONAL sport in Spain.

Second, a key was Spanish culture and their character. I'm starting to be an old man but I remember in my youth I lived playing on the streets like the rest of the Spanish kids. And we have a comfortable home and a TV too, but climate and sociability in Spain invited us to go out. When Spanish authorities channel all that into base sports suddenly every neighborhood, every town had several teams and many sports competitions. We had the street culture that you can see in many Third World countries but with the means of the first world. And of course, every success of a Spanish athletes reinforced the process.

Third, the 'Spanish brick fever' helps too :o Every town, even the smallest, built his own sports arena. For some reason we went mad raising infrastructure everywhere. That have led us to the brink of bankruptcy, but one of its side effects is that also helped sport here.

For the records, I know that none of these clown trolls are going to read this, nor Yannick the Frenchie buffoon, but I need write some English :shrug:

Edda
07-18-2012, 12:14 AM
Yannick Noah had the nerve to tell Juan Carlos Ferrero not to stop at one like he did. Juanqui did win just one slam, but he also made at least the quarters in every slam. Yannick was a true "one slam wonder" someone who did absolutely nothing but have one long party. Noah is nowhere near in Juan Carlos' class as a player or a person.

Mjau!
07-19-2012, 08:25 PM
The Operación Puerto doping case (Operation Mountain Pass) is a Spanish doping case against doctor Eufemiano Fuentes and a number of accomplices, started in May 2006. He is accused of administering prohibited doping products to 200 professional athletes, to enhance their performance.

Spanish police raided residences. In one, belonging to Fuentes, they found a thousand doses of anabolic steroids, 100 packets of blood products, and machines to manipulate and transfuse them.

In March 2004 in an interview with the Spanish newspaper Diario AS, Jesús Manzano exposed systematic doping in his former cycling team, Kelme. He detailed blood doping as well as the performance-enhancing drugs he used while on the team. The investigation and the allegations he made led to questioning of several members of the team in April 2004. These included Eufemiano Fuentes who was the Kelme team doctor, Walter Virú the doctor before Fuentes, and Alfredo Córdova who was working for Liberty Seguros-Würth but involved with Kelme in 2003. An investigation began into the practices of Fuentes in early 2006 by the anti-drug trafficking arm of the Spanish Guardia Civil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operaci%C3%B3n_Puerto_doping_case

The following article (an interview with Fuentes) dates from 1985.

Los atletas españoles reciben ayuda médica para mejorar sus resultados (Spanish athletes receive medical help to improve performance):

http://elpais.com/diario/1985/02/14/deportes/477183611_850215.html

http://translate.google.se/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=es&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.elpais.com%2Farticulo%2Fdeporte s%2FESPANA%2FCOMITE_OLIMPICO_ESPANOL_%2FCOE%2Fatle tas%2Fespanoles%2Freciben%2Fayuda%2Fmedica%2Fmejor ar%2Fresultados%2Felpepidep%2F19850214elpepidep_11 %2FTes

The wife of the doctor at the center of Spain's biggest doping investigation says Spanish sports would be ruined if she revealed what she knows about drug use among athletes.
"I know what happened at Barcelona '92 and I'm a Pandora's Box that, if opened one day, could bring down sport,"

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/news/story?id=3712847

The first case of performance enhancement to which Fuentes has been linked was a family affair. It happened in the mid-1980s, and the athlete in question was Cristina Pérez, Fuentes's wife.
A few years later, Fuentes, after developing contacts to the cycling scene, became team physician for various profession teams, ultimately even becoming their training and competition strategist. The physician never seemed to be bothered by persistent rumors of his involvement in doping activities. "I was always under suspicion," he says, "but nothing ever happened."
The more successful his riders became, the safer and more confident Fuentes felt. Before a difficult individual time trial in the 1991 Tour of Spain, or Vuelta, the doctor was sitting on a plane bound for the Spanish Mediterranean island of Mallorca. Fuentes told journalists also traveling on the flight that the cooler on the seat next to him contained "the key to victory in the Vuelta." His comments proved to be true, when a pro on the team sponsored by Fuentes's employer at the time, Once, won not only the difficult time trial but also the overall tour.

A paradise for performance enhancement

Besides, until now there has been very little public pressure in Spain to prosecute those involved in performance enhancement. Even El País, an investigative newspaper that now leads the pack in reporting on "Operation Mountain Pass," was long averse to even addressing the topic.
This atmosphere allowed Spain to develop into a paradise for athletes interested in performance enhancement. The first reports about compliant doctors and well-equipped laboratories began making the rounds in the track and field world in the late 1990s. The suspicion that a network had developed in this environment was confirmed last year when the police staged a spectacular coup against the drug cartel. In a series of raids on the Spanish mainland, as well as on the Canary and Balearic Islands, police secured 10 tons of illegal doping products.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/tour-de-france-inside-the-blood-doping-investigation-a-425939-2.html

Looks like quite the scandal. How did the spanish authorities handle it?

Wahrscheinlich könnte man schon ermitteln, welche Sportler bei Fuentes gedopt haben. Aber da dies für das Strafrecht nicht relevant ist, wurden diese Ermittlungen nicht durchgeführt. Und deshalb werden mit großer Wahrscheinlichkeit in dem Verfahren gegen Fuentes auch keine neuen Sportlernamen oder Sportarten auftauche", erklärte der für den Fall Fuentes zuständige Madrider Oberstaatsanwalt Eduardo Esteban

- One could probably find out which athletes were doped by Fuentes but this is not relevant for the law.

Wenn das Urteil endgültig ist, nach einer möglichen Berufung, dann ist es wahrscheinlich, dass am Ende die Blutbeutel und Beweise zerstört werden", sagte der zuständige Revisionsrichter am Oberlandesgericht Madrid, Arturo Beltran,

- The evidence is likely to be destroyed.

http://www.focus.de/sport/mehrsport/radsport-doping-dopingskandal-um-arzt-fuentes-droht-zu-versanden_aid_555979.html

:o

Note that all these quotes are pre-Operacion Galgo.

¿Sus clientes o pacientes sólo son ciclistas o también ha tratado a deportistas de otras especialidades?
Fuentes: He tratado deportistas de muchas especialidades: ciclistas, tenistas, atletas, futbolistas.... Veinticinco años de profesión dan cabida para mucho.
¿En qué porcentaje ha tratado a ciclistas respecto a otros deportistas?
Fuentes: Es difícil saberlo... Pero pongamos que ha habido un 30 por ciento de ciclistas, un 20 de tenistas, otro 20 de futbolistas y el 30 por ciento restante pertenecían a deportes varios.

Are your clients or patients only cyclists or have you also treated athletes from other sports?
Fuentes: "I've treated athletes from many sports: cyclists, tennis players, athletes (track & field), footballers .... Twenty-five years of work make room for a lot."
What percentage of those treated were cyclists and other athletes respectively?
Fuentes: "It's hard to say ... But let's say there has been 30 percent cyclists, 20 percent tennis players, another 20 percent football players and 30 percent belonged to other sports."

http://www.lasprovincias.es/alicante/pg060710/prensa/noticias/Deportes/200607/10/VAL-DEP-232.html

"Me indigna la filtración selectiva."
"I am outraged by the selective filtration."
"Sólo han salido nombres de ciclistas... como ayuda a la recuperación, a futbolistas, tenistas o atletas".
Only names of cyclists were leaked, but he also treated footballers, tennis players and (track & field) athletes.

http://elpais.com/diario/2006/07/05/deportes/1152050423_850215.html

Im WDR spricht Pat McQuaid, Präsident des Rad-Weltverbandes UCI, davon, dass er im Jahr 2006 in Anwesenheit von Ermittlungsbehörden und des spanischen Sportministers die Auskunft erhielt, dass auch andere Sportarten betroffen wären: Schwimmen, Rudern, Tennis und Fußball.

Pat McQuaid, president of the UCI Road World Federation, told WDR that he received in 2006, in the presence of investigative authorities and the Spanish sports minister, information that other sports would be affected: swimming, rowing, tennis and football.

http://www.wienerzeitung.at/default.aspx?tabID=4913&alias=sport&cob=519213

Jesús María Manzano Ruano (San Lorenzo de El Escorial, May 12, 1978) is a former Spanish professional road racing cyclist. He is famous as the whistleblower of systematic doping within his cycling team and his statements led the Guardia Civil to conduct the Operación Puerto investigation around the sport doctor Eufemiano Fuentes.

Two years after Manzano’s first allegations to the international press, the Operación Puerto investigation began in early 2006 with the result of arrests in May 2006. Manzano’s statements had led directly to the development of this investigation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Manzano

Doping whistleblower Jesus Manzano, whose statements to the Spanish federation and government are believed to have initiated the Puerto investigation, has claimed an international footballer and three prominent Spanish athletes had been treated by the doctor at the centre of the Puerto inquiry, Eufemiano Fuentes. Speaking to German TV channel ZDF, Manzano said of the footballer: "It is a player who I do not meet that much because he is travelling a lot with his club and the national team. He is now afraid like everyone else." Manzano also alleged he had seen two-time world marathon champion Abel Anton, former European 5,000-metre champion Alberto Garcia and Spanish 1,500-metre athlete Reyes Estevez in the hotel where Fuentes is claimed to have offered consultations.

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/shorts-manzano-astana-tour-2007-10202/

"Fuentes is still active. He doesn't have as many customers, but he still treats cyclists. I myself have spoken with one. It is a Spanish top rider."

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/sport/weitere/Der-beste-Dopingarzt-ist-wieder-aktiv/story/22231757

"Fuentes had other athletes. Track & field athletes, rowers and he spoke of football players," said Manzano. "He told us that he had problems with the football club Las Palmas and besides, blood analyses of football players were found during the searches of Fuentes' home in Madrid."

http://www.focus.de/sport/mehrsport/radsport-doping-dopingskandal-um-arzt-fuentes-droht-zu-versanden_aid_555979.html

Now, let's have a look at Operacion Galgo.

In a further doping scandal, in 2010, Fuentes was arrested by Spanish police as part of Operación Galgo (Operation Greyhound). In a series of simultaneous raids across five provinces on 9 December, Spanish police seized a large quantity of anabolic steroids, hormones and EPO, as well as laboratory equipment for blood transfusions. According to Público newspaper, Eufemiano Fuentes and his sister Yolanda were the leaders of the alleged plot. Also arrested were the athlete Marta Dominguez, who was released on bail after having been charged with the trafficking and distribution of doping substances, and Alberto Leon, now retired from mountain biking, in whose fridge anti-doping police found several bags of blood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eufemiano_Fuentes

Lista de detenidos

Alberto García: atleta y campeón de Europa (2002) en los 5. 000 metros.

http://www.abc.es/20101209/deportes/guardia-civil-pone-marcha-201012091200.html

Nuria Fernández y Reyes Estévez, interrogados

http://www.rtve.es/deportes/20101210/nuria-fernandez-reyes-estevez-interrogados/384944.shtml

Operación Galgo: Manuel Pascua [Track & Field coach] admits facilitating the doping of his athletes

Each page corresponds to the doping planning for each type of athletic competition, aimed at the athletes he trains,” said a Guardia Civil statement. In documents seen by El Pais, Pascua acknowledges that he has partaken in doping with several of his athletes.
Rather than the cryptic, but obvious, codenames used by Fuentes’ blood-doping ring, where cyclists were named after their dogs, Pascua used simple letter/number codes for his athletes. According to the Guardia Civil A15 refers to Nuria Fernández, B15-30 to Reyes Estévez, A1 to Murillo Digna Luz and B8B to Eugenio Barrios.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/6915/Operacion-Galgo-Manuel-Pascua-admits-facilitating-the-doping-of-his-athletes.aspx

I guess Fuentes was telling the truth about "treating" track athletes and Manzano was right about Garcia and Estevez and about Fuentes still being active, but what they said about footballers is just nonsense, right? :rolleyes:

Surely Fuentes and his clients were actually punished this time?

Charges against Eufemiano Fuentes dismissed

Operacion Galgo, or “Operation Greyhound,” the Spanish investigation into an alleged blood doping ring involving Dr. Eufemiano Fuentes has been closed due to “a lack of evidence.”

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/operacion-galgo-comes-to-an-end-in-spain

Well, I guess "a large quantity of anabolic steroids, hormones and EPO, as well as laboratory equipment for blood transfusions", "several bags of blood" and confessions, doesn't count as evidence...

Tour de France winner, Oscar Perreiro, also claims Eufemiano Fuentes doped footballers.

http://www.as.com/ciclismo/video/pereiro-denuncia-persecucion-ciclismo/20111118dasdascic_1/Ves

Mjau!
07-19-2012, 08:41 PM
Moving on to Luis Garcia Del Moral.

From USADA's letter to Lance Armstrong:

By Dr. Luis del Moral (Team Doctor):

(1) Possession of prohibited substances and/or methods including EPO, blood transfusions and related equipment (such as needles, blood bags, storage containers and other transfusion equipment and blood parameters measuring devices), testosterone, hGH, corticosteroids, and masking agents, as described in more detail above.

(2) Trafficking of EPO, blood transfusions, testosterone, hGH, corticosteroids andmasking agents as described in more detail above.

(3) Administration and/or attempted administration of EPO, blood transfusions, testosterone, hGH, corticosteroids, and masking agents as described in more detail above.

(4) Assisting, encouraging, aiding, abetting, covering up and other complicity involving one or more anti-doping rule violations and/or attempted anti-doping rule violations.

(5) Aggravating circumstances justifying a period of ineligibility greater than the standard sanction.

Dr. Luis Garcia del Moral was the Team Doctor for the USPS Cycling Team for the period from 1999 through 2003. Subsequently, Dr. del Moral continued to serve as a physician for many cyclists. He currently works as a sports doctor in Valencia, Spain.

With respect to Dr. del Moral, numerous riders will testify that Dr. del Moral gave to them, encouraged them to use and/or assisted them in using doping products and/or prohibited methods, including EPO, blood transfusions, testosterone, hGH, cortisone and infusions of saline, plasma and/or glycerol during the period from 1999 through 2005. Riders and other witnesses will also testify that del Moral worked actively to conceal rule violations by himself and others throughout the period from 1999 through the present.

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/armstrongcharging0613.pdf

Ferrari, Del Moral and Marti banned for life in US Postal case

The United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) announced today that Dr. Luis Garcia del Moral (cycling team doctor), Dr. Michele Ferrari (cycling team consulting doctor) and Jose "Pepe" Martí (cycling team trainer) have all received lifetime periods of ineligibility as the result of their anti-doping rule violations in the United States Postal Service (USPS) Cycling Team Doping Conspiracy.

USADA CEO Travis Tygart confirmed to Cyclingnews that Ferrari, Del Moral and Marti accepted their lifetime bans. "The respondents chose not to waste resources by moving forward with the arbitration process, which would only reveal what they already know to be the truth of their doping activity."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ferrari-del-moral-and-marti-banned-for-life-in-us-postal-case

Dr. del Moral, of Valencia, Spain, was the team physician for the USPS Cycling Team from 1999 through 2003. Until recently Dr. del Moral was affiliated with a sports medicine clinic in Valencia, Spain. USADA’s evidence is that after 2003, Dr. del Moral assisted individual cyclists, including a number of former USPS team members, with their doping. The evidence in Dr. del Moral’s case demonstrated that from 2000 he was intimately involved in the prohibited method of blood transfusions which cyclists use to boost the number of circulating red blood cells to increase the oxygen-carrying capacity of the blood and increase endurance. Dr. del Moral brought riders to his sports medicine clinic in Valencia, Spain where he withdrew blood for prohibited blood transfusions. Dr. del Moral also assisted with saline infusions in order to keep the rider’s blood levels below threshold levels to avoid detection of their drug use. In addition to blood transfusions and saline infusions, Dr. del Moral administered banned performance- enhancing drugs including EPO, testosterone, corticosteroids and hGH to cyclists by providing these drugs to them, recommending the use of these drugs and directly injecting riders with these prohibited drugs.

http://www.usada.org/media/sanction-usps7102012

The Wall Street Journal interviewed 4 ex-team mates of Lance Armstrong about Del Moral.

Cycling Doctor Under a Microscope
Luis García del Moral, Who Worked for Lance Armstrong's U.S. Postal Service Team, Becomes Target of Doping Investigators.

A letter last week from the United States Anti-Doping Agency accused Garcia del Moral of participating in a covert doping program as a physician on Armstrong's Postal team from 1999 to 2003.

García del Moral aggressively promoted an undercover regimen of banned drugs and medical procedures, allegations reflected in last week's USADA letter. "Numerous riders will testify that Dr. del Moral gave to them, encouraged them to use and/or assisted them in using doping products and/or prohibited methods," said the USADA letter.

From the minute that the chain-smoking García del Moral showed up at the Postal team's training camp in 1999 in Austin, Texas, he began overseeing the administration of performance enhancing drugs.

the former riders say, he injected riders with drugs or performed blood transfusions that are banned in the sport.

One former rider said García del Moral injected him with corticosteroids. Another rider said he didn't want to take performance-enhancing drugs because he feared the health consequences. But one day, the rider said, García del Moral told him, "you're not a real professional if you don't take drugs." The rider said, "That really (angered) me." The rider said he responded, "'Well, you're not really a doctor.'"

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303703004577473003044421504.html?m od=wsj_share_tweet

An excerpt from Paul Kimmage's interview with Floyd Landis:

Q: How did you manage your doping in ’05? The Wall St Journal piece said: Mister Landis said he hired a Spanish doctor in Valencia to take transfusions and paid one person $10,000 to make two separate deliveries of half-litre bags of blood during the 2005 Tour de France.

A: In 2004, the Postal Service got rid of Luis Garcia Del Moral, who was the team doctor, and I knew that he was often in charge of the logistics of doing transfusions and things like that, so I just contacted him and asked if he would do it for me. So I paid him to do it.

Q: Del Moral?

A: Yeah.

Q: You paid Del Moral?

A: Yeah.

Q: Did that ‘work’?

A: Did it work? Yeah, the reason that I was not as good in 2005 as I was in 2004 or 2006 was because I had surgery that winter and wasn’t walking for weeks and it took a while to get back in shape. So drugs or no drugs weren’t going to change that. I did the same thing in 2004 and 2005 and 2006; the one variable was that I had my hip issues to deal with and therapy and things like that. I mean, in all of the Tours I did exactly the same amount of blood (transfusing) except the first one (2002); the first one I did one transfusion which is 500 millilitres and the next four I did 1000 militaries each, three separate times in 2006, because it was easier to maintain the continuous blood parameters that were being checked. But it ended up being the same total volume that I added so…yeah, Del Moral, in spite of denying that he ever saw any doping, like everybody does, that was all he really did.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/02/news/complete-transcript-paul-kimmages-interview-of-floyd-landis_158328

What has he been up to other than doping cyclists?

García del Moral continued to work with athletes at the Instituto de Medicina del Deporte [IMD], a Valencia health clinic that specializes in sports injuries and performance-enhancing treatments. Staff members say the center, part of a network that includes several others in Spain, is managed by the regional government and works often with professional athletes, including cyclists, track-and-field athletes, soccer and tennis players, providing advice on nutrition and training regimes and top-class fitness equipment.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303703004577473003044421504.html?m od=wsj_share_tweet

Auch der Sportmediziner del Moral, der von 1999 bis 2003 die ersten fünf Toursiege Armstrongs als Teamarzt bei US Postal begleitete, ist keinesfalls nur eine Figur aus der dunklen Vergangenheit. Der Mediziner, der bis vor kurzem noch am Institut für Sportmedizin in Valencia arbeitete, ist nicht nur im Radsport bis heute gut vernetzt. Del Moral gehört zum Team der ebenfalls in Valencia ansässigen Sport Consulting Firma "Performa", die auf ihrer Internetseite "maßgeschneidertes Training" verspricht.

Bis Mittwochmorgen konnte man dort auch die Referenzen des Sportmediziners nachlesen. Kurz darauf war der Eintrag verschwunden. Aber es war eine durchaus ansehnliche Vita: Neben seiner Arbeit für Armstrongs Rennstall gehörte del Moral in der Saison 2003/2004 zum medizinischen Stab des FC Barcelona. Auch die Fußballer des FC Valencia ließen sich von del Moral betreuen. Die Tennisprofis Marat Safin und Dinara Safina gehörten ebenfalls zu seinen Klienten. Und auch French-Open-Finalistin Sara Errani soll auf seine Dienste vertrauen. Der bis Februar 2012 wegen des Besitzes von Dopingmitteln gesperrte Geher Francisco Fernandez, Europameister von 2006, erklärte im November 2009, er werde von del Moral betreut.

http://www.sportschau.de/weitere/radsport/gesperrtearmstronghelfer100.html

An El Mundo article from 2009:

García del Moral vive apartado del ciclismo, pero no del deporte. Actualmente dirige el Instituto de Medicina del Deporte de la Fundación Deportiva Municipal del Ayuntamiento de Valencia, donde se ocupa de coordinar la asistencia preventiva de las escuelas municipales y ha seguido teniendo contactos con la práctica deportiva profesional.

Según figura en su currículo, en la temporada 2003/04 fue asesor médico del FC Barcelona y en junio de 2005 se incorporó a los servicios médicos del Valencia de la mano del traumatólogo Rafael Llombart, un médico de familia y un endocrino. Ese cuerpo médico, que llegó para sustituir a Jorge Candel, salió del club sólo seis meses después. Las críticas de los jugadores, muy descontentos con su labor, fueron determinantes en la decisión de Juan Soler de prescindir de ellos.

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/2009/11/25/masdeporte/1259142455.html

Del Morals CV was taken off Performa Sport Consulting's website.

http://performa.es/equipo-entrenamiento-personal.html

Screencap of the CV:

http://i.imgur.com/jK2G7.png

"Asesor Médico de diversos equipos de Fútbol entre los que destaca el Barcelona CF y el Valencia CF."

They left it on the english version.

http://performa.es/English/equipo.html

"Medical Adviser of various football teams most notably FC Barcelona and Valencia CF."

Screencap:

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/7158/lgdm.png

Corey Feldman
07-19-2012, 08:45 PM
^^ People should know about some issues in the recent history of Spain.

First, Barcelona Olympics. This meant a huge boost for PROFESSIONAL sport in Spain.

Second, a key was Spanish culture and their character. I'm starting to be an old man but I remember in my youth I lived playing on the streets like the rest of the Spanish kids. And we have a comfortable home and a TV too, but climate and sociability in Spain invited us to go out. When Spanish authorities channel all that into base sports suddenly every neighborhood, every town had several teams and many sports competitions. We had the street culture that you can see in many Third World countries but with the means of the first world. And of course, every success of a Spanish athletes reinforced the process.

Third, the 'Spanish brick fever' helps too :o Every town, even the smallest, built his own sports arena. For some reason we went mad raising infrastructure everywhere. That have led us to the brink of bankruptcy, but one of its side effects is that also helped sport here.

For the records, I know that none of these clown trolls are going to read this, nor Yannick the Frenchie buffoon, but I need write some English :shrug:.. bla bla bla

BLA BLA BLA!

Mjau!
07-19-2012, 08:49 PM
Travis Tygart, the chief executive of the US Anti-Doping Agency... says the performances of athletes from Jamaica, Russia and Spain are compromised because drug testing in those countries is not stringent enough and does not involve out-of-competition and no-notice testing, or tests for EPO and human growth hormone.

Tygart said: 'There does currently exist a divide between a number of nations that are running the most effective programmes. You look at the UK, France, Norway and, hopefully, the US. They are in stark contrast to the quality of the [anti-doping] programmes in Spain, Jamaica, Russia.

'Frankly, athletes from those countries [Jamaica, Spain and Russia] deserve to be able to say: "Hey, we're clean. And not only are we clean but we're held to the highest standard". I feel bad for athletes from those countries, because they don't have the ability to say that.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2033444/Nick-Harris-Britain-takes-gold-comes-testing-drugs.html

Spanish Athletics Doping Scandal: A Bag Of Blood from Operation Puerto in 2006 Was Linked to Marta Dominguez
http://www.letsrun.com/2010/bag-1215.php

No ban though!

Mjau!
07-19-2012, 08:56 PM
Why do you think all these foreign cycling stars like Armstrong, Landis, Hamilton, Basso, Scarponi, Ullrich, Jaksche, and so on, went to Spain to dope? Why is that? You think that somehow makes Spain look better, because "they do it too", but it only makes Spain's anti-doping efforts look even worse! It suggests Travis Tygart (see above) was right. It suggests Der Spiegel had it right.

A paradise for performance enhancement

Besides, until now there has been very little public pressure in Spain to prosecute those involved in performance enhancement. Even El País, an investigative newspaper that now leads the pack in reporting on "Operation Mountain Pass," was long averse to even addressing the topic.
This atmosphere allowed Spain to develop into a paradise for athletes interested in performance enhancement. The first reports about compliant doctors and well-equipped laboratories began making the rounds in the track and field world in the late 1990s.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/tour-de-france-inside-the-blood-doping-investigation-a-425939-2.html