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Deceit and Entrapment: Novak Djokovic and the 1.6M Matrix of Cynicism

Yolita
11-11-2011, 11:48 PM
This is the latest post from the blog "Tennis is Served". Very insightful, don't you think?

Here's the link to the blog:

http://tennisisserved.blogspot.com/

You won't regret going there. Read any of the entries, even old ones, you'll enjoy them.


Friday, 11 November 2011.
Deceit and Entrapment: Novak Djokovic and the $1.6M Matrix of Cynicism


1. If Novak doesn’t play Paris, its because he’s saving himself for London – his shoulder has almost nothing to do with it. Neither is it relevant that countless other players both past and present have done precisely that under similar circumstances.

2. If Novak plays Paris, but loses his opener, he’s still saving himself for London but is now also a “low-rent” mercenary for claiming the $1.6M he was due for competing in 7 of the 8 Masters events – or, as Bodo would have it, for “brazenly gaming the system”.

3. If Novak plays Paris, but retires during his opener, he’s still saving himself for London, is still “brazenly gaming the system” by claiming the $1.6M he was due for playing 7 of the 8 Masters events, but is now also one that hasn’t the grace nor the class (both overused terms) to give his opponent the win they’re due.

Bonus hater points accrued depending on how the injury is presented: “his body always seems to break down” (opportunist ~2pts) vs. “his body always seems to break down” (wet behind the ears ~2pts) vs. a creatively insidious combo of both (~5pts)

4. If Novak wins his opener, he’s putting in just enough legwork to counter the accusations of “not trying hard enough” he WILL receive should he pull out or lose any one of of his subsequent matches. His primary motivation (as a low-rent mercenary) remains exiting the event both quickly and by drawing as little attention (censure) as possible. Needless to say he can’t do both and the more diligent hater won’t let him get away with it.

5. If he fights back from a set down as he did against his compatriot yesterday, he’s a showboating dickhead that’s cynically exploiting the opportunity of beating a flaky minion (one whose game he knows inside out) to present himself as someone that doesn’t shy away from a fight, no matter how much he may be hurting, and no matter how little is at stake. Again, the more astute hater won’t fail to avail the opportunity of satisfying the dual objective of both undercutting Novak and snarking on Viktor.

6. If he makes the latter stages or – God help us – wins the event, he’s an insufferable egomaniac that doesn’t know when to stop (the chip on the shoulder of most players from small Eastern European countries usually ensure that they don’t) and will in all likelihood pay the price for it in London.

This is the matrix of cynicism with which Novak’s every action has been evaluated over the past week – the handout from hell.

Its beauty lies in the arc it artfully traces between the two extremes of blaming him for one thing, namely pulling out to avoid further inflaming an injury(1) and blaming him for its reflexive opposite (6) – veteran haters are able to pull this off without the transition between (1) and (6) seeming too jarring, or even without anyone noticing it’s taken place at all.

Between the two endpoints lies a breadth of possibilities that is truly daunting and the real magic lies in predicting what Novak may or may not do and devising ever more creative means of undercutting “the good” and highlighting “the bad”.

What you end up with is a complex web of deceit which ensures Novak’s presented in nothing other than the most unfavourable terms, and from which there can be no escape as no stone has been left unturned. As a piece of legal, political and actuarial manoeuvring, it stands alone – you really have to marvel at its completeness and attention to detail.

Let’s be completely honest: Novak was gonna be gunned down whatever he did this week.

His pulling out after winning two matches is supposed to mean we can all go back to pretending he wouldn’t have got shat upon had he pulled out before the event began or, rather more crucially, had there not been $1.6M at stake.

And one thing I have learnt this week is that there is, apparently, a middle ground between the haters’ invective and the more conventional discourse around Nole’s injuries – this appears to be what most have settled upon.

There’s only one thing wrong with it: it happens to be a crock of shit. Elaborate, inventive, and maybe a little persuasive, but a hoax all the same.

Novak's physical conditioning has always proved polarising – and yes he has sometimes brought it on himself – yet there’s something inexorably icky about the nature of the spite this time round as it seems to be motivated primarily by the question of money.

That would be the $1.6M bonus he was due for playing 7 of the 8 Masters events – something no one else was able to do this year, and a provision that, as far as I can tell, has always been in place.

I don’t think he should have played this week either, I don’t feel the need to go out of the way to defend his decision to do so and, yes, he probably didn’t "give it his all”, but we really shouldn’t be muddying the waters with talk of money.

And if we’re honest about it, it’s no different to what countless other players, both past and present, both journeyman and elite, have done (in some cases many times over) – only they seem to get the most lavish praise imaginable for “listening to their body”.

Only yesterday, Mardy Fish withdrew with a pulled left hamstring – a recurring injury that also caused him problems in Basel, an injury he would, presumably, have been nursing when he decided to play here this week, an injury that puts him in much the same position as Novak, yes?

If Novak’s a shithead for pulling out two matches in, then so is Mardy – $1.6M should have nothing to do with it. Or are those levels of winnings only for players you like?

I can’t in all honesty say I even find that much wrong with pocketing the amount he did without supposedly “giving it his all”; it’s not the epitome of principled behaviour, but it is increasingly becoming an unavoidable consequence of the more physical modern game – and, dare I say it, the length of the season. We’re going to have to find a way to live with that without casting doubt on any and every withdrawal we witness.

In any case, after the season he’s just had, I’d say he’s entitled to the benefit of the doubt. The same benefit of the doubt readily conferred upon more popular types – even those popular types that are actually guilty of “brazenly gaming the system”.



Read more: Tennis Is Served...: Deceit and Entrapment: Novak Djokovic and the $1.6M Matrix of Cynicism http://tennisisserved.blogspot.com/2011/11/deceit-and-entrapment-novak-djokovic.html#ixzz1dRcII8yM

v-money
11-11-2011, 11:58 PM
So sensitive these Djokovic fans. Won't rest until everyone is kissing their idols feet. Give it a break.

Mae
11-12-2011, 12:10 AM
Most people either like or dislike Nole. Me sometimes I like him and sometimes I don't :confused:

Nole fan
11-12-2011, 12:19 AM
You can't read venky, don't pretend.

Spot on article that puts to shame all the haters who desperately need to find fault with Djokovic one way or another for the sake of it. After all there's no one else -absolutely no one- to talk about this season. Brutal dominance of the unforgiving kind Nole presented this season is often met with disdain and incredulity by blind breed fans that can't get over the change of the guard. It must hurt really good.

All me and Nole have to say:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/4db77_ORIG-look_at_all_the_fucks_i_give.jpg

Yolita
11-12-2011, 02:40 PM
Frankly, I expected more reactions to this piece. This is a very well argued article about the unfairness with which Novak is being treated. Surely somebody would say something. :confused:

And anybody who cares to visit this blog will realise that the author is NOT a Novak fan. But he's an unbiased tennis lover who hates hypocrisy. Shouldn't we all hate it? :rolleyes:

Nole fan
11-12-2011, 02:47 PM
Frankly, I expected more reactions to this piece. This is a very well argued article about the unfairness with which Novak is being treated. Surely somebody would say something. :confused:

And anybody who cares to visit this blog will realise that the author is NOT a Novak fan. But he's an unbiased tennis lover who hates hypocrisy. Shouldn't we all hate it? :rolleyes:

The reason you didn't get more reactions to this piece, dear yolita, it's because the almighty mods thought it would be a good idea to hide it in the never visited Fan Blogs. Like they do with any relevant piece about Djokovic yet they leave all the hate threads in the general forum. :rolleyes:

Yolita
11-12-2011, 02:58 PM
Oh, I see! :)

I really don't get it. One gets really silly threads in the main section and this article could open lines of discussion! It's a general theme. Novak is incidental, because Novak is not the only target. Many other players, both male and female, get unfairly treated by the powers that be.

OK. Live and learn. Cheers. :)

Nole fan
11-12-2011, 08:31 PM
Oh, I see! :)

I really don't get it. One gets really silly threads in the main section and this article could open lines of discussion! It's a general theme. Novak is incidental, because Novak is not the only target. Many other players, both male and female, get unfairly treated by the powers that be.

OK. Live and learn. Cheers. :)

Try to tell that to the mods.
If I were you I would contact Snowy or Scoobs about it, they're the most reasonable mods here. And if they realise they did something wrong they usually mend it up. It happen to me and a thread I created in GM which they moved to Nole's forum and then placed it back in GM when they realised their mistake. Probably they just wanted to move it to avoid further tard wars. :shrug:

Yolita
11-13-2011, 04:51 AM
Thanks very much for your advise, Nole fan. But I think I'll leave it. I've posted this article in several places and it has been largely ignored. I think it's because it's so well argued that haters have no answers. I hope they read it at least, even if they don't comment on it, and that it gives them something to think about. :)

Nole fan
11-13-2011, 02:22 PM
Thanks very much for your advise, Nole fan. But I think I'll leave it. I've posted this article in several places and it has been largely ignored. I think it's because it's so well argued that haters have no answers. I hope they read it at least, even if they don't comment on it, and that it gives them something to think about. :)

Yeah, people don't care about the truth. :lol:
You're from Mexico, right? Well, your English is exquisite. I'm envious. :D

fast_clay
11-13-2011, 03:49 PM
novak brought it all upon himself... he should have stayed the unapologetic badboy that he was in 2008 instead of having a breakdown while trying to man hug his way through 2 and a 1/4 years of constant beat down by nadal and other frustrations born by being a slam champion unable to taste that same glory again... this would have enabled him to say 'f*ck off crowd' once in a while, and probably bag a bigger buck in the process... but no, novak's sense played second fiddle to his vanity once again... and thus, you reap what you sew...

this along with his almost complete 'Retirement Slam', habitual rule breaking (along with nadal) and fondness for the medical time out allows true tennis fans to call shenanigans when shit is glossed over...

these are the reasons why the article was largely ignored... anyone trying to defend this article in general messages would have been ripped apart, and so, commencing yet another long winded flame war...

good luck,

fast_clay

Yolita
11-13-2011, 10:13 PM
Yeah, people don't care about the truth. :lol:
You're from Mexico, right? Well, your English is exquisite. I'm envious. :D
Thank you. :)

Yes, I'm from Mexico, but I lived in London for several years when I was a graduate student and I married an Englishman. :D

Yolita
11-13-2011, 10:20 PM
novak brought it all upon himself... he should have stayed the unapologetic badboy that he was in 2008 instead of having a breakdown while trying to man hug his way through 2 and a 1/4 years of constant beat down by nadal and other frustrations born by being a slam champion unable to taste that same glory again... this would have enabled him to say 'f*ck off crowd' once in a while, and probably bag a bigger buck in the process... but no, novak's sense played second fiddle to his vanity once again... and thus, you reap what you sew...

this along with his almost complete 'Retirement Slam', habitual rule breaking (along with nadal) and fondness for the medical time out allows true tennis fans to call shenanigans when shit is glossed over...

these are the reasons why the article was largely ignored... anyone trying to defend this article in general messages would have been ripped apart, and so, commencing yet another long winded flame war...

good luck,

fast_clay

Oh yeah? He didn't do too badly, did he? Even while learning how to deal with the pressure and the expectations, he managed to be the #3 player for 4 straight years (that is, the best of the rest), and now he's the #1 (that is, the best of everybody). So he WAS able to taste the same glory again, and then some. And now he's saying f**k off to everybody by doing exactly as he pleases: fooling around, dressing up, ripping his shirt, dancing, singing, having fun and owning everybody on the circuit.

And that's why people hate him: because he has kicked everybody's butt this year in an emphatic way. So he'll be criticised for retiring, for not retiring, for playing, for not playing, for withdrawing, for not withdrawing, for faking injuries, for the arrogance of playing injured... He was even criticised for NOT TANKING a match. When that happens, it means the haters are really desperate. The hate him for winning. For showing the rest of the circuit that breaking the Fedal duopoly was possible, with talent, hard-work and guts. They hate him for winning. For nothing else. And, unfortunately, that's the one thing he can't stop doing.

But you can continue making up excuses as to why you hate him. You're not fooling anybody. :)

Nole fan
11-14-2011, 01:51 AM
Oh yeah? He didn't do too badly, did he? Even while learning how to deal with the pressure and the expectations, he managed to be the #3 player for 4 straight years (that is, the best of the rest), and now he's the #1 (that is, the best of everybody). So he WAS able to taste the same glory again, and then some. And now he's saying f**k off to everybody by doing exactly as he pleases: fooling around, dressing up, ripping his shirt, dancing, singing, having fun and owning everybody on the circuit.

And that's why people hate him: because he has kicked everybody's butt this year in an emphatic way. So he'll be criticised for retiring, for not retiring, for playing, for not playing, for withdrawing, for not withdrawing, for faking injuries, for the arrogance of playing injured... He was even criticised for NOT TANKING a match. When that happens, it means the haters are really desperate. The hate him for winning. For showing the rest of the circuit that breaking the Fedal duopoly was possible, with talent, hard-work and guts. They hate him for winning. For nothing else. And, unfortunately, that's the one thing he can't stop doing.

But you can continue making up excuses as to why you hate him. You're not fooling anybody. :)

I love the way you phrased it, so damn true. :)
People ignore that Nole was able to stay number 3 for a long long time. Without two of the greatest ever in his way, he could have been nº1 for 5 years since the age of 20. :eek:
I find that very remarkable. He's just come around this year to fulfill his enormous potential and it's been scary the way he did it. People should congratulate and respect him a big deal for that, specially since no one has been able to do it before.... instead he's absurdly dissed or should i say envied for the smallest of things. Retirements, medical timeouts, too much bouncing? for christ sakes!!

scoobs
11-14-2011, 02:50 AM
Moving this back into GM for a while, see how it develops...

MatchFederer
11-14-2011, 03:01 AM
So sensitive these Djokovic fans. Won't rest until everyone is kissing their idols feet. Give it a break.

Agree with this totally, actually.

swanpm20
11-14-2011, 03:25 AM
This was a great, well written, unusual article. Thanks for sharing. I think this type of criticism will affect anyone who is ranked #1, especially when they're so new and took the place of someone who was there for awhile. Look at how heavily criticized Rafa was (is) when he took #1 out of Federer's hands.

Ben.
11-14-2011, 03:44 AM
I don't care to read the article but much of it is simple, the hate comes with the success. Add his domination of Federer, and to a lesser extent Nadal, and you get what we have currently. Just look at how much hate Rafa gets here. For all the talk of time wasting and his game style, the main reason is that he had beaten Federer so many times. Now both Federer fans and Nadal fans are jumping on the Djokovic hate wagon, though some Federer fans are enjoying his beating of Nadal.

There are other factors though. He is also prone to time wasting so people turned off by Nadal for this reason have the same reaction to Djokovic. His celebrations this year have been, at times, over the top and cringe inducing. His antics at the end of the USO semi and his fourth set in the final don't help. This sort of thing makes all his graciousness (especially in defeat) in the past seem like a facade too, sort of like the people who hate Federer because he was rammed down our throats as the epitome of class and sportmanship when he isn't.

The current injury, while I'm sure genuine, does seem to be used at his convenience. Again, people turned off by the talk of Rafa's injuries will have the same reaction here. You shouldn't forget not everyone reads every last word about Djokovic, or much about tennis at all. They see him playing one week, then making comments about being in agony, then playing again, then withdrawing. That is all they have to go on.

Also, Nole Fan. Don't think I need to elaborate on this one.

rickcastle
11-14-2011, 03:46 AM
Djokovic is no. 1 and he will get a lot of hate, stemming from jealousy I guess but that's fame and success for you. Look at how many people hate Federer and belittle his achievements pick on every single detail of his post-match interviews, and I am sure a lot of Djokovic fans are guilty of doing that too. If you want everyone to love and respect Djokovic, I think a Djokovic-centric forum is better fit for you.

tripwires
11-14-2011, 03:56 AM
I don't care to read the article but much of it is simple, the hate comes with the success. Add his domination of Federer, and to a lesser extent Nadal, and you get what we have currently. Just look at how much hate Rafa gets here. For all the talk of time wasting and his game style, the main reason is that he had beaten Federer so many times. Now both Federer fans and Nadal fans are jumping on the Djokovic hate wagon, though some Federer fans are enjoying his beating of Nadal.

There are other factors though. He is also prone to time wasting so people turned off by Nadal for this reason have the same reaction to Djokovic. His celebrations this year have been, at times, over the top and cringe inducing. His antics at the end of the USO semi and his fourth set in the final don't help. This sort of thing makes all his graciousness (especially in defeat) in the past seem like a facade too, sort of like the people who hate Federer because he was rammed down our throats as the epitome of class and sportmanship when he isn't.

The current injury, while I'm sure genuine, does seem to be used at his convenience. Again, people turned off by the talk of Rafa's injuries will have the same reaction here. You shouldn't forget not everyone reads every last word about Djokovic, or much about tennis at all. They see him playing one week, then making comments about being in agony, then playing again, then withdrawing. That is all they have to go on.

Also, Nole Fan. Don't think I need to elaborate on this one.

Genuinely puzzled: isn't it the other way around? He's 6-0 versus Nadal and lost his first match to Rog at the FO.

Anyway, all this hate is really the consequence of his success. The Mardy Fish comparison in the article doesn't really hold up because...I mean, no disrespect to Fish, but who really cares what Fish does as compared to Nole? He's nowhere near as prominent. I get the point that the same standards should be applied to all players, but it's a fact that there are a few players who draw more attention, praise and criticisms than the others because of what they've achieved. Nole, as the most dominant and successful player of this season, will inevitably find himself under the microscope for everything that he does. His fans can complain about the double standards and hypocrisy, etc; I've definitely complained about the same crap levied at Roger throughout the years that I've followed him. But it just comes with the success. In fact, you know you've arrived when everyone has something negative to say about you.

Kat_YYZ
11-14-2011, 04:30 AM
The article is very well argued and well written :yeah:

But it's not entirely true that only Novak is being targeted. There was quite a lot of heated discussion here and elsewhere when Nadal announced he would play Halle instead of Queens next year because of the UK tax regulations. Whenever you have a very wealthy person appearing greedy or stingy, you're going to provoke a reaction, usually with lots of hating on that person. People still can't let go of Pete Sampras not tipping that busboy :lol:

Mountaindewslave
11-14-2011, 05:23 AM
this article is stupid, I read about half of it and realized that it was essentially the same thing repeated in varying circumstances, to quite an absurd point.

Djokovic is not hated in every single circumstance, no matter how he acts. but it makes a good point that it is almost irrelevant how he preforms sometimes because at this point he has made himself a bad reputation.

over-gloating victory after victory this year (with impressive passion each time I might add given the length of his win streak), using injury excuses for all losses, and for not being a particularly modest or respectful #1 in the world. you expect the #1 player in the world not to retire frequently out of fuss when they are upset about losing and certainly not to participate in events only for money, to later W/O from said event when facing loss.

others are right, the success and #1 ranking results in extra cynicism BUT that's to be expected. Djokovic has not really handled things that well. to directly compare things with this dumb article, in Paris Djokovic had a smart move. it was to not participate at all in the tournament. playing the tournament (which assumes he is healthy enough) and losing in the first few rounds would be negative because he would throw out the injury card immediately in press conferences instead of giving the opponent credit (Nishikori Basel anyone?). if he plays a match and retires mid way through it also makes him look bad because it becomes quite clear that he picks and chooses which matches to tough it out through. and lastly, if he plays a few rounds and then decides to W/O right before playing an in form player like TSONGA, it makes him look extremely pathetic too. oh wait, that actually occured :o

so the truth lies in the fact that Djokovic's poor excuses make him and his scheduling and playing choices very hard to respect, and that the only one to blame is Novak himself

MuzzahLovah
11-14-2011, 06:06 AM
Djokovic just played to get the money, because he is a whore. At least he isn't a dick like Federer- though, and I don't see why he shouldn't get the bonus- better him than the ATP keeping it.

BlueLighthouse
11-14-2011, 06:15 AM
I don't care to read the article but much of it is simple, the hate comes with the success. Add his domination of Federer, and to a lesser extent Nadal, and you get what we have currently. Just look at how much hate Rafa gets here. For all the talk of time wasting and his game style, the main reason is that he had beaten Federer so many times. Now both Federer fans and Nadal fans are jumping on the Djokovic hate wagon, though some Federer fans are enjoying his beating of Nadal.

There are other factors though. He is also prone to time wasting so people turned off by Nadal for this reason have the same reaction to Djokovic. His celebrations this year have been, at times, over the top and cringe inducing. His antics at the end of the USO semi and his fourth set in the final don't help. This sort of thing makes all his graciousness (especially in defeat) in the past seem like a facade too, sort of like the people who hate Federer because he was rammed down our throats as the epitome of class and sportmanship when he isn't.

The current injury, while I'm sure genuine, does seem to be used at his convenience. Again, people turned off by the talk of Rafa's injuries will have the same reaction here. You shouldn't forget not everyone reads every last word about Djokovic, or much about tennis at all. They see him playing one week, then making comments about being in agony, then playing again, then withdrawing. That is all they have to go on.

Also, Nole Fan. Don't think I need to elaborate on this one.

:worship: :worship: :worship:

Jaz
11-14-2011, 07:08 AM
I don't care to read the article but much of it is simple, the hate comes with the success. Add his domination of Federer, and to a lesser extent Nadal, and you get what we have currently. Just look at how much hate Rafa gets here. For all the talk of time wasting and his game style, the main reason is that he had beaten Federer so many times. Now both Federer fans and Nadal fans are jumping on the Djokovic hate wagon, though some Federer fans are enjoying his beating of Nadal.

There are other factors though. He is also prone to time wasting so people turned off by Nadal for this reason have the same reaction to Djokovic. His celebrations this year have been, at times, over the top and cringe inducing. His antics at the end of the USO semi and his fourth set in the final don't help. This sort of thing makes all his graciousness (especially in defeat) in the past seem like a facade too, sort of like the people who hate Federer because he was rammed down our throats as the epitome of class and sportmanship when he isn't.

The current injury, while I'm sure genuine, does seem to be used at his convenience. Again, people turned off by the talk of Rafa's injuries will have the same reaction here. You shouldn't forget not everyone reads every last word about Djokovic, or much about tennis at all. They see him playing one week, then making comments about being in agony, then playing again, then withdrawing. That is all they have to go on.

Also, Nole Fan. Don't think I need to elaborate on this one.

:rolleyes:

His domination of Federer? Federer is the only guy to have defeated Djokovic when he was playing his best. Your illusions continue.

For MTF fans, the reason I hate Djokovic is:

The King is dead in 2008
It's his stupid on and off court drama
It's his one thousand and one injuring and retirement
His family who is even more repulsive than Judy Murray

fifthsetshootout
11-14-2011, 07:35 AM
While the blog post certainly defends Djokovic's right to play in Paris for the bonus, I think the author goes a little to far in his defense. He's right to argue that there's nothing inherently wrong in Djokovic playing purely for the bonus money. However, the author doesn't properly acknowledge the valid points of the other side's argument.

Novak shouldn't have played Paris and if he did so purely for the bonus money, then I can't necessarily blame him for that. Still, it does cast a bit of a shadow.

But criticizing Djokovic for his decision to play Paris is NOT automatically tied to being a hater. That's a faulty assumption that the author of the post makes (while it certainly can be the case, one shouldn't assume that anyone daring to criticize Djokovic is a "hater").

It was a touchy issue and one that is certainly worthy of at least some criticism. If you thought Djokovic was going to come out of this incident smelling like roses, you're living in an alternate reality.

Other players in his position, with that much money on the line, might have done the same. But there haven't been many top players in the no. 1 position who have had this issue before. This is clearly new territory for Djokovic, but I think the post's insinuation that any criticism of Djokovic's actions in Paris is unworthy, is also a faulty argument.

tripwires
11-14-2011, 07:43 AM
Honestly, I don't think he should have played Paris. When you enter a tournament you signal your fitness to play. I'm not a hater at all and I like him for the most part, but his choosing to play Paris after being bageled by Nishikori of all people in Basel really just smacked of him wanting to grab the bonus prize money and little more. Of course, there's nothing inherently wrong with that, but I guess I'm just an old school traditionalist.

dodo
11-14-2011, 07:47 AM
As outlandish as it may sound, haters gonna hate. If you garner enough attention, some of it will invariably be negative, especially if said attention detracts from something else it was previously attributed to. This sort of tard-logic is applied daily (or rather, minute-ly, not so much minutely) here on mtf to all the top players. Pointing out the retardation of it, no matter how painfully obvious, will achieve nothing as, like already said, haters gonna hate.

incognito
11-14-2011, 08:26 AM
But criticizing Djokovic for his decision to play Paris is NOT automatically tied to being a hater. That's a faulty assumption that the author of the post makes (while it certainly can be the case, one shouldn't assume that anyone daring to criticize Djokovic is a "hater").

It was a touchy issue and one that is certainly worthy of at least some criticism. If you thought Djokovic was going to come out of this incident smelling like roses, you're living in an alternate reality.

Other players in his position, with that much money on the line, might have done the same. But there haven't been many top players in the no. 1 position who have had this issue before. This is clearly new territory for Djokovic, but I think the post's insinuation that any criticism of Djokovic's actions in Paris is unworthy, is also a faulty argument.
First of all, with a record 5 masters 1000 titles and 1 final, no other player has deserved this bonus more than him. One would think it's obvious that Djokovic, having not played at all since the US Open, wouldn't easily pass on the last opportunity to get at least some match practice going into the WTF. The bonus, while undoubtedly enticing, is hardly the only thing on the mind of someone who's already cashed in over $10 million in prize money alone this season. If his decisions were solely motivated by prize money, don't you think he would have fought a little harder to also win the US Open Series instead of letting Mardy Fish grab the top spot leaving him short of another nice bonus? Obviously, his primary interest then and now was/is preparing for the tournaments that matter the most, in these particular cases the USO and the WTF...

rickcastle
11-14-2011, 08:37 AM
First of all, with a record 5 masters 1000 titles and 1 final, no other player has deserved this bonus more. One would think it's obvious that Djokovic, having not played at all since the US Open, wouldn't easily pass on the last opportunity to get at least some match practice going into the WTF. The bonus, while undoubtedly enticing, is hardly the only thing on the mind of someone who's already cashed in over $10 million in prize money alone this season. If his decisions were solely motivated by prize money, don't you think he would have fought a little harder to also win the US Open Series instead of letting Mardy Fish grab the top spot leaving him short of another nice bonus? Obviously, his primary interest was preparing for the USO. Same thing here with the WTF...

Well the difference in US Open series is you have to win and keep on winning to get the bonus, in Paris all he had to do was show up and win a few games and the money was his. Entirely different situations.

It's very possible of course that Djokovic did not play because of the prize money, but as fifthsetshootout said, it's silly to expect him to come out smelling like roses after this issue. These players are filthy rich and any sign of greed (no matter how true or untrue) from them irritates the common folk.

buzz
11-14-2011, 08:40 AM
I would also get the bonus! in whatever situation, little injury/niggle, injury, priority londen. He is a professional and should be making these decisions result orientated. If this is the result, maybe the ATP calender/bonussystem isn't optimal.

I'm a Federer fan, but mostly like Djokovic. What I don't like about him is the sudden increased amount of ball bouncing when things get tight. And then when an umpire says something about it, how can you warn me at this moment!...

fast_clay
11-14-2011, 08:41 AM
Oh yeah? He didn't do too badly, did he? Even while learning how to deal with the pressure and the expectations, he managed to be the #3 player for 4 straight years (that is, the best of the rest), and now he's the #1 (that is, the best of everybody). So he WAS able to taste the same glory again, and then some. And now he's saying f**k off to everybody by doing exactly as he pleases: fooling around, dressing up, ripping his shirt, dancing, singing, having fun and owning everybody on the circuit.

And that's why people hate him: because he has kicked everybody's butt this year in an emphatic way. So he'll be criticised for retiring, for not retiring, for playing, for not playing, for withdrawing, for not withdrawing, for faking injuries, for the arrogance of playing injured... He was even criticised for NOT TANKING a match. When that happens, it means the haters are really desperate. The hate him for winning. For showing the rest of the circuit that breaking the Fedal duopoly was possible, with talent, hard-work and guts. They hate him for winning. For nothing else. And, unfortunately, that's the one thing he can't stop doing.

But you can continue making up excuses as to why you hate him. You're not fooling anybody. :)

ok then... you're a tard...

good luck with that..

incognito
11-14-2011, 09:02 AM
Well the difference in US Open series is you have to win and keep on winning to get the bonus, in Paris all he had to do was show up and win a few games and the money was his. Entirely different situations.
Given Djokovic's HC record this season, there can't be much doubt that had he simply wanted to, he would have gotten the top spot in the US Open Series. He could have requested a WC into one or two additional US tournaments, sleepwalked to a QF or SF just to increase his point total, then withdrawn if he was too tired to bother battling it out for the title. Of course, there is a difference in the nature of the bonuses, I was simply pointing out that in Djokovic's case it would have been the same, i.e. play a few matches then withdraw if you feel out of shape. The fact that this was just an appearance bonus and that Djokovic did far more than simply appear (5 titles, 1 final and 1 QF), can hardly be held against him...

cardio
11-14-2011, 09:19 AM
It is actually very simple : #1 has bigger responsibilities and higher standards than #51.If you are fit and healthy, play. If you are injured, burnout or ill, dont play , dont enter the tournament.

Noone really cares how much Robredo plays or withdraws besides himself, his team and his fans.But if you are # 1,lot of people has certain expectations , they want to watch the best tennis they can get nowadays and they pay big bucks for tickets.If they get walkover or retirement or WTA crap on ATP event , they are upset with reason.

Djokos`s playing activity after Wimby doesnt look so good at all :

Montreal win
Cinci retirement in final
USO win
Davic Cup retirement
Basel bagel in SF to #32
Paris withdrawal before QF

In retrospective, he shouldnt play Cinci, Davis Cup and Paris at all. Maybe even ending the season after USO and let his injury heal properly would have been a good idea.It looks like he needs reload his mental batteries also,it is not 100% physical problems.

Noone is safe from injuries and reasonable people understand that.But retirement/ withdrawal on every 2nd event looks bad, especially after brilliant first half of the year.

rickcastle
11-14-2011, 09:29 AM
Given Djokovic's HC record this season, there can't be much doubt that had he simply wanted to, he would have gotten the top spot in the US Open Series. He could have requested a WC into one or two additional US tournaments, sleepwalked to a QF or SF just to increase his point total, then withdrawn if he was too tired to bother battling it out for the title. Of course, there is a difference in the nature of the bonuses, I was simply pointing out that in Djokovic's case it would have been the same, i.e. play a few matches then withdraw if you feel out of shape. The fact that this was just an appearance bonus and that Djokovic did far more than simply appear (5 titles, 1 final and 1 QF), can hardly be held against him...

This is simply all your conjecture that "if he simply wanted to, he would have gotten the top spot in the US Open Series" - it's not a fact, not written in stone. And as Djokovic's results this indoor season goes to show you, basing future results on a player's results at the beginning and middle of the year would make no sense.

It's a fact on the other hand that if he just shows up in Paris and wins a couple games, he will get the bonus. Again, entirely different situations.

Nole fan
11-14-2011, 09:31 AM
Well who would have guessed. This went well, posters expressed their opinions without resorting to tedious hateful and untrue arguments and actually presented a genuine discussion. We all have different opinions but this is how they should be expressed in all mtf threads. You respect people and don't troll and they respect you back. Thanks folks, keep this friendly. :)

incognito
11-14-2011, 09:56 AM
This is simply all your conjecture that "if he simply wanted to, he would have gotten the top spot in the US Open Series" - it's not a fact, not written in stone. And as Djokovic's results this indoor season goes to show you, basing future results on a player's results at the beginning and middle of the year would make no sense.

It's a fact on the other hand that if he just shows up in Paris and wins a couple games, he will get the bonus. Again, entirely different situations.
It's more than a mere conjecture, it's common sense ;)

I agree that sometimes events don't unfold according to commonsensical expectations, but surely you don't think that the reason why Djokovic himself elected not to enter any additional tournaments during the US hardcourt season would have had anyting to do with him lacking the expectation of fairly easily reaching at very least a QF or SF in them? The fact that he didn't even try get some easy points, where he by all probability/expectation could, is all that matters for my particular line of reasoning...

leng jai
11-14-2011, 10:04 AM
Its hilarious how Nole Fan instantly BFFs someone as soon as they have something nice to say about Fakervic.

mark73
11-14-2011, 10:06 AM
This is the latest post from the blog "Tennis is Served". Very insightful, don't you think?

Here's the link to the blog:

http://tennisisserved.blogspot.com/

You won't regret going there. Read any of the entries, even old ones, you'll enjoy them.


Friday, 11 November 2011.
Deceit and Entrapment: Novak Djokovic and the $1.6M Matrix of Cynicism


1. If Novak doesn’t play Paris, its because he’s saving himself for London – his shoulder has almost nothing to do with it. Neither is it relevant that countless other players both past and present have done precisely that under similar circumstances.

2. If Novak plays Paris, but loses his opener, he’s still saving himself for London but is now also a “low-rent” mercenary for claiming the $1.6M he was due for competing in 7 of the 8 Masters events – or, as Bodo would have it, for “brazenly gaming the system”.

3. If Novak plays Paris, but retires during his opener, he’s still saving himself for London, is still “brazenly gaming the system” by claiming the $1.6M he was due for playing 7 of the 8 Masters events, but is now also one that hasn’t the grace nor the class (both overused terms) to give his opponent the win they’re due.

Bonus hater points accrued depending on how the injury is presented: “his body always seems to break down” (opportunist ~2pts) vs. “his body always seems to break down” (wet behind the ears ~2pts) vs. a creatively insidious combo of both (~5pts)

4. If Novak wins his opener, he’s putting in just enough legwork to counter the accusations of “not trying hard enough” he WILL receive should he pull out or lose any one of of his subsequent matches. His primary motivation (as a low-rent mercenary) remains exiting the event both quickly and by drawing as little attention (censure) as possible. Needless to say he can’t do both and the more diligent hater won’t let him get away with it.

5. If he fights back from a set down as he did against his compatriot yesterday, he’s a showboating dickhead that’s cynically exploiting the opportunity of beating a flaky minion (one whose game he knows inside out) to present himself as someone that doesn’t shy away from a fight, no matter how much he may be hurting, and no matter how little is at stake. Again, the more astute hater won’t fail to avail the opportunity of satisfying the dual objective of both undercutting Novak and snarking on Viktor.

6. If he makes the latter stages or – God help us – wins the event, he’s an insufferable egomaniac that doesn’t know when to stop (the chip on the shoulder of most players from small Eastern European countries usually ensure that they don’t) and will in all likelihood pay the price for it in London.

This is the matrix of cynicism with which Novak’s every action has been evaluated over the past week – the handout from hell.

Its beauty lies in the arc it artfully traces between the two extremes of blaming him for one thing, namely pulling out to avoid further inflaming an injury(1) and blaming him for its reflexive opposite (6) – veteran haters are able to pull this off without the transition between (1) and (6) seeming too jarring, or even without anyone noticing it’s taken place at all.

Between the two endpoints lies a breadth of possibilities that is truly daunting and the real magic lies in predicting what Novak may or may not do and devising ever more creative means of undercutting “the good” and highlighting “the bad”.

What you end up with is a complex web of deceit which ensures Novak’s presented in nothing other than the most unfavourable terms, and from which there can be no escape as no stone has been left unturned. As a piece of legal, political and actuarial manoeuvring, it stands alone – you really have to marvel at its completeness and attention to detail.

Let’s be completely honest: Novak was gonna be gunned down whatever he did this week.

His pulling out after winning two matches is supposed to mean we can all go back to pretending he wouldn’t have got shat upon had he pulled out before the event began or, rather more crucially, had there not been $1.6M at stake.

And one thing I have learnt this week is that there is, apparently, a middle ground between the haters’ invective and the more conventional discourse around Nole’s injuries – this appears to be what most have settled upon.

There’s only one thing wrong with it: it happens to be a crock of shit. Elaborate, inventive, and maybe a little persuasive, but a hoax all the same.

Novak's physical conditioning has always proved polarising – and yes he has sometimes brought it on himself – yet there’s something inexorably icky about the nature of the spite this time round as it seems to be motivated primarily by the question of money.

That would be the $1.6M bonus he was due for playing 7 of the 8 Masters events – something no one else was able to do this year, and a provision that, as far as I can tell, has always been in place.

I don’t think he should have played this week either, I don’t feel the need to go out of the way to defend his decision to do so and, yes, he probably didn’t "give it his all”, but we really shouldn’t be muddying the waters with talk of money.

And if we’re honest about it, it’s no different to what countless other players, both past and present, both journeyman and elite, have done (in some cases many times over) – only they seem to get the most lavish praise imaginable for “listening to their body”.

Only yesterday, Mardy Fish withdrew with a pulled left hamstring – a recurring injury that also caused him problems in Basel, an injury he would, presumably, have been nursing when he decided to play here this week, an injury that puts him in much the same position as Novak, yes?

If Novak’s a shithead for pulling out two matches in, then so is Mardy – $1.6M should have nothing to do with it. Or are those levels of winnings only for players you like?

I can’t in all honesty say I even find that much wrong with pocketing the amount he did without supposedly “giving it his all”; it’s not the epitome of principled behaviour, but it is increasingly becoming an unavoidable consequence of the more physical modern game – and, dare I say it, the length of the season. We’re going to have to find a way to live with that without casting doubt on any and every withdrawal we witness.

In any case, after the season he’s just had, I’d say he’s entitled to the benefit of the doubt. The same benefit of the doubt readily conferred upon more popular types – even those popular types that are actually guilty of “brazenly gaming the system”.



Read more: Tennis Is Served...: Deceit and Entrapment: Novak Djokovic and the $1.6M Matrix of Cynicism http://tennisisserved.blogspot.com/2011/11/deceit-and-entrapment-novak-djokovic.html#ixzz1dRcII8yM


I have to agree. The more successful you are the more people will love you...and hate you.

For me its just a game and I don't judge anyone. I guess I'm not a fanatic (fan comes from fanatic for those who don't know).

rickcastle
11-14-2011, 10:11 AM
It's more than a mere conjecture, it's common sense ;)

I agree that sometimes events don't unfold according to commonsensical expectations, but surely you don't think that the reason why Djokovic himself elected not to enter any additional tournaments during the US hardcourt season would have had anyting to do with him lacking the expectation of fairly easily reaching at very least a QF or SF in them? The fact that he didn't even try get some easy points, where he by all probability/expectation could, is all that matters for my particular line of reasoning...

Going into 2011, common sense would tell me that Djokovic had no chance beating Nadal on clay or winning Wimbledon but yet, here we are.

You can hypothesize all day regarding why Djokovic did not try and win the US Open Series, but it will still be a completely and entirely different situation than just showing up in Paris. Operative word is "try" - in US Open Series, he could try to win the bonus but it's not set in stone. In Paris, he didn't have to try to win the tournament, he just had to show.

Nole fan
11-14-2011, 10:18 AM
Its hilarious how Nole Fan instantly BFFs someone as soon as they have something nice to say about Fakervic.

I haven't read anything nice about Nole here, but at least it has been reasoned and respectful, all we should ask for. :cool:

Gagsquet
11-14-2011, 10:21 AM
http://www.sportune.fr/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/oeuf-djokovic.jpg

mark73
11-14-2011, 10:21 AM
Most people either like or dislike Nole. Me sometimes I like him and sometimes I don't :confused:

It's tribal behaviour. Its us against them. Its Nole and his fans against another superstar player and his fans.
Just like its Christian fundamentalists against Muslim fundamentalists or one racial group against another, etc.

Nole fan
11-14-2011, 11:12 AM
It's tribal behaviour. Its us against them. Its Nole and his fans against another superstar player and his fans.
Just like its Christian fundamentalists against Muslim fundamentalists or one racial group against another, etc.

True.
And we believe that in order to put our favorite above the others we have to diminish the other's success. We are all guilty of that here.

tripwires
11-14-2011, 01:19 PM
True.
And we believe that in order to put our favorite above the others we have to diminish the other's success. We are all guilty of that here.

Very true.

BTW, your new sig is so much better than the previous one.

tennis2tennis
11-14-2011, 01:27 PM
When you’ve retired and pulled out of many tournaments as novak than expect cynicism

tennizen
11-14-2011, 01:44 PM
And that's why people hate him: because he has kicked everybody's butt this year in an emphatic way. So he'll be criticised for retiring, for not retiring, for playing, for not playing, for withdrawing, for not withdrawing, for faking injuries, for the arrogance of playing injured... He was even criticised for NOT TANKING a match. When that happens, it means the haters are really desperate. The hate him for winning. For showing the rest of the circuit that breaking the Fedal duopoly was possible, with talent, hard-work and guts. They hate him for winning. For nothing else. And, unfortunately, that's the one thing he can't stop doing.

But you can continue making up excuses as to why you hate him. You're not fooling anybody. :)

This post sounds a lot like the US political slogan, " They hate us for our freedoms":lol:

On topic: The article is much ado about nothing. In fact, the writer is stupid for thinking Novak's actions require any sort of defense. Such people bring issues into limelight which would have been easily forgotten if not for their own intervention. Most tennis fans have already forgotten about Paris Masters and are currently eagerly waiting for the WTF draw to come out.

thehotstuff66
11-14-2011, 03:15 PM
Let me be honest..

I'm a Fed fan first and foremost. Some of my other favorites are Marat Safin, Ivan Lendl, Alex Dolgopolov. 2 of those are no longer playing and 2 are playing.

I have been a member of this forum for years. I hardly post b/c i find a lot of the posts belittling or hurting to other posters or to my favorites so i choose not to post.

As a federer fan, I like novak. Dont love him but I like him. I think he's cute and i love his tennis. He's got a great personality and he's funny and i usually like how he always congratulates the winner when he he loses. But, here's where i have problems with him.

I dont like the medical time outs and all the injuries and i feel like his pulling out of the match with Tsonga was shitty and unsportsmanlike. Whereas i love money like the next person and i certainly understand about the bonus, cause yeah, we are human and he deserved the money cause he earned it. So i have no problem with him playing just for the bonus.

Here's my problem. Either he was going to play or not play for the bonus. If he chose to enter the tournament, then he should have played it til he won or lost. How was that fair to his countryman, Troiki(sp?) as he Nole gave up so much time and energy beating Victor that he brought the injury on himself, if he knew he was hurting during that match, he should have let victor win or tried to pull the match off in 2 sets but he CHOSE to continue playing and risked further injury. So hear we have Nole winning but hurt, victor losing but maybe could have gone further in the tournament had nole retired or lost in 2 but nope, Nole pulls out the victory and commences to give a walkover in the next match because he's playing Tsonga.


So it looks like he was either afraid to play Tsonga as Tsonga is a bigger threat to his win/loss record or he knew he could get the win with victor so he played that match cause he wasnt threatened as he has beaten victor all matches they have played. It reads to me like Novak isnt a good sport and I really dont like that at all.

whereas i love his game and am glad to see someone winning besides fed and nadal, i am pretty pissed about the way this went down...will i cheer for him in future, yes i will(only not when playing fed or alex) but it just taints him in my eyes a little.

So to wrap this up, no problem with him wanting the bonus but my problem lies in the way he went about to get the bonus and the walkover...that's it.

For all the other people who are gonna come down on me, oh well, wont be the first or last......


thanks,


Cat

Nole fan
11-14-2011, 03:32 PM
Hey cat,
I appreciate your opinion because it was honest. And when you look it that way, you have a point. But this is completely subjective, isn't it? I mean, a lot of other players have done it before (ok, maybe not Federer). But I think it was pretty obvious that he didn't fight a lot against troicki, he was happy just to lose against him but it didn't happen. And then he could risk getting his shoulder worse before Tsonga. I currently don't think that Novak is that much interested in the win-loss stat. I think he's honestly interested in competing at a high level in London, he takes WTF very seriously. So he thought he'd need the time on court. What's wrong with that? Ok maybe you think it was shitty not to give Tsonga the chance to beat him while injured?

In my opinion it was worse when he retired against Murray in Cincy. Thats the only time I genuinely disliked what he did. Yes, it was a bummer that he couldn't compete in equal conditions with Andy, but he should have played those 3 last games and give Andy the satisfaction of a victory without asterisks (or at least an official asterisk). I think that was potentially worse than withdrawing from Paris. So the conclusion is that maybe he shouldn't have played at all? and then risk not only losing the bonus but also the competition time he needs on court for getting ready for London. It's a lose-lose situation in my opinion. Not easy at all to make a decision. At the end of the day, the rules are the rules and he didn't break any. :shrug:

MIMIC
11-14-2011, 03:40 PM
I only read the 1st half.

:haha: Spot on :yeah: But being hated comes with the territory. Like I've always believed: if you have haters, then you must be doing SOMETHING right :)

tektonac
11-14-2011, 03:43 PM
Nole is sending 1.6 million greetings to his hataz :wavey:

MaxPower
11-14-2011, 04:18 PM
^^ hah. One more tournament then he can spend a full month in the egg. I've heard the egg is soundproof. Novak can't hear the haterz when inside. But its gonna cost like a million dollarz. So he had to go to Paris to pimp up the space-egg

Yolita
11-14-2011, 04:32 PM
Although I am a Nole fan, I can definitely see why he would make people cringe with some of his antics. But let's remember that tastes are subjective.

For instance, I happen to love Nole's elongated grunts, that start as a grunt and end up as a primal shout, I adore them, they always make me laugh. At the same time I found Roger's finger wagging very offensive and I find Soderling's fist-pumps and Hewitt's "Coome on's" quite irritating. But I can understand why somebody might think the exact opposite. It's a matter of taste. One shouldn't consider one player morally superior to another one because of the way they celebrate a victory.

I have absolutely no problem with people disliking Novak. But one should try to be fair.

And this article shows, in a very witty and rigourous way, that people have been unfair to Novak.

I understand that Novak's success has a lot to do with it. But it's precisely because of his success that Nole should be given the benefit of the doubt.

The last 2 times he faced Tsonga, Novak beat him emphatically. The last time Tsonga pulled out with an injury when Novak was winning. I don't remember the entire tennis community going down on Tsonga for faking an injury rather than taking a beating "like a man". He's a Top 10 player and he was given the benefit of the doubt. Shouldn't Novak be given one as well?

I think he should. :)

Henry Chinaski
11-14-2011, 05:06 PM
Article looks like paranoid fangirl bollocks. Poor Novak. Boo fucking hoo.

Any article that uses the word "hater" instantly loses credibility

mark73
11-14-2011, 05:11 PM
True.
And we believe that in order to put our favorite above the others we have to diminish the other's success. We are all guilty of that here.

The only thing I've ever been guilty of is being SEEEEEEEEEEEXY!!. :devil:

Henry Chinaski
11-14-2011, 05:12 PM
The last 2 times he faced Tsonga, Novak beat him emphatically. The last time Tsonga pulled out with an injury when Novak was winning. I don't remember the entire tennis community going down on Tsonga for faking an injury rather than taking a beating "like a man". He's a Top 10 player and he was given the benefit of the doubt. Shouldn't Novak be given one as well?

I think he should. :)

you see things like this are bullshit and at the crux of the original article. People only see what they want to. Anything that doesn't reinforce their own narrative is ignored.

Tsonga got a LOAD of shit for that retirement.

Both from the rabid fuckwits on forums like MTF and from prominent tennis journos on twitter.

fmolinari2005
11-14-2011, 05:27 PM
What is the difference between an amateur and a professional tennis player?! The professional is better and earns money for playing tennis. So I don't see the drama about him playing a tournament to win a bonus. Unless, of course, you are a internet Che Guevera who is typing from your Ipad while drinking coffee at Starbucks- then you can pass judgement on how bad capitalism is and how it is corrupting everything.

The problem with Novak is that he IS quick to call the trainer and he DOES use medical time-outs in a suspicious way. And he does use medical conditions to justify losses/ quitting matches too often. Much like Nadal to be honest- but the spaniard gets away with it somehow ... while Nole gets far more scrutiny for doing so.

At Bercy it was clear that Novak mainly played too get that bonus. I would do the same. Mostly hypocrites would say that they wouldn't do it. However, one thing that from now on Nole fans can't say is that their guy is this humble king that only play for the beauty of the sport and the pride of Serbia ...

Yolita
11-14-2011, 05:32 PM
Article looks like paranoid fangirl bollocks. Poor Novak. Boo fucking hoo.

Any article that uses the word "hater" instantly loses credibility

I think you should give this blog a chance.

He uses the word "hater" because it has been established as tennis lingo but the blog is written by a very cultured, intelligent and funny British guy.

It's a very insightful blog, not only entertaining, also informative and very often thought provoking. Choose any posts at random and you'll realise that he's not a Novak fan at all. He's just a tennis lover, as unbiased as they come.

If you really care about an intelligent analysis of tennis, pay him a visit. Ignore this article if you want, check any of his other posts. You will not regret it.

Here's the link again:

http://tennisisserved.blogspot.com/

Henry Chinaski
11-14-2011, 05:42 PM
I follow the guy on twitter. He's ok. I'll check out the blog again in future

Vida
11-14-2011, 05:55 PM
I have not read the article, I really cant dwell on this issue. there was mil and a half on the line, for 2 days work... no man woman or child would say no to that. end of story.

Nole fan
11-14-2011, 06:50 PM
The Asterisk and its discontents

"Having said that, I also sense that fans are really contorting themselves to come up with reasons to undercut Djokovic's season. He could fail to win another match the rest of the year, rendering it a moot point. But as of today, his record is a joke, especially given the quality of his contemporaries. We're talking about losing three matches at a time when two of the best, what, five (?) players ever are ranked No. 2 and No. 3. Give the man his due."
-- Wertheim’s mailbag, SI.com


What say you? Are people really jumping through hoops in order to “undercut”, qualify or otherwise asterisk Novak’s year?

I’d say they almost certainly are – without a doubt. Should we be surprised? It almost always happens in the face of domination of any sort.

If, for example, you were to believe just half of what passed for “reasoned opinion” over the past decade, Fed simply made the most of a “weak-era” and Rafa was never anything more than a “glorified clay-courter” who made the most of his physical gifts. Talent, it seems, had little to do with it.

Whilst at least some of that may be based on a distorted truth of sorts, it’s mostly the work of asterisk-toting Neanderthals that don’t care to give credit where its due. Novak’s treatment’s certainly no different in that respect.

That said, perhaps I can forgive a little eye-rolling (though no more than eye-rolling) on the part of Fed fans, who are continually told to accept Novak’s run as the “best on record” – a feat their guy accomplished three times over (inc. the WTFs).

I’ve no time and and ZERO tolerance for those that undercut any player’s once-in-a-lifetime achievements with lazy, ideological asterisks.

But if you’re going to qualify all of Fed’s years by citing a weak era (a lazy theory at the best of times), is it not just a tad hypocritical not to factor in his age and ailing form/physique now?


Read more: Tennis Is Served...: Novak Djokovic http://tennisisserved.blogspot.com/search/label/Novak%20Djokovic#ixzz1di92G2ij

This guy definitely reads MTF. :lol:

fifthsetshootout
11-14-2011, 06:59 PM
I understand that Novak's success has a lot to do with it. But it's precisely because of his success that Nole should be given the benefit of the doubt.

The last 2 times he faced Tsonga, Novak beat him emphatically. The last time Tsonga pulled out with an injury when Novak was winning. I don't remember the entire tennis community going down on Tsonga for faking an injury rather than taking a beating "like a man". He's a Top 10 player and he was given the benefit of the doubt. Shouldn't Novak be given one as well?

I think he should. :)

When Tsonga retired against Djokovic, *many* tennis fans and journalists blasted the Frenchman. The criticism and outrage thrown at Tsonga now applies to Djokovic in Cincinnati/Davis Cup/Paris. I don't think Novak's achievements entitle him to more benefit of the doubt than the other tennis players. If anything, I'd expect more from Novak given the fact that he's no. 1 right now.

timafi
11-14-2011, 07:14 PM
can't say I blame Djokovic he needed the dough to go shopping at Harrods this week!

thehotstuff66
11-15-2011, 02:11 PM
Hey cat,
I appreciate your opinion because it was honest. And when you look it that way, you have a point. But this is completely subjective, isn't it? I mean, a lot of other players have done it before (ok, maybe not Federer). But I think it was pretty obvious that he didn't fight a lot against troicki, he was happy just to lose against him but it didn't happen. And then he could risk getting his shoulder worse before Tsonga. I currently don't think that Novak is that much interested in the win-loss stat. I think he's honestly interested in competing at a high level in London, he takes WTF very seriously. So he thought he'd need the time on court. What's wrong with that? Ok maybe you think it was shitty not to give Tsonga the chance to beat him while injured?

See, i think he is interested in the win/loss record b/c of the retirements and the walkovers, correct me if i'm wrong, but the walkover doesnt count against his reocrd, right? I just think that he either should of played or not played from the beginning...i get the bonus thing, i really do cause honestly, i would have done the same thing but then to do just a complete walkover w/o even trying...that's what i have a problem with...he didnt try...But see if he was injured with victor and played, why not with Tsonga?




In my opinion it was worse when he retired against Murray in Cincy. Thats the only time I genuinely disliked what he did. Yes, it was a bummer that he couldn't compete in equal conditions with Andy, but he should have played those 3 last games and give Andy the satisfaction of a victory without asterisks (or at least an official asterisk). I think that was potentially worse than withdrawing from Paris. So the conclusion is that maybe he shouldn't have played at all? and then risk not only losing the bonus but also the competition time he needs on court for getting ready for London. It's a lose-lose situation in my opinion. Not easy at all to make a decision. At the end of the day, the rules are the rules and he didn't break any.


Yeah, it was a lose/lose situation for him but i think he would have taken a lot less flack if he would have played the match with Tsonga like he did with victor and maybe if he got worse, then retired....Nope, he didnt break the rules, i just consider it unsportsmanlike...but i still like nole, i like his spirit and the fact that he makes tennis interesting to me again...like i said, it just left a sour taste in my mouth but in no way does it mean that i will stop cheering for him...just not when playing fed or alex, lol


Thanks for responding?

What do you think his level with be like at WTF? I'm going for my man fed and nole is next on my list to win....

Murray would be 3rd and then Nadal....

I'd say the suprise would be Berdych or Tsonga....


Cant see fish winning it being hurt and Ferrer, while he is a scrapper, he always seems to lose in bigger matches....


cat

Nole fan
11-15-2011, 09:28 PM
Hey cat,
I appreciate your opinion because it was honest. And when you look it that way, you have a point. But this is completely subjective, isn't it? I mean, a lot of other players have done it before (ok, maybe not Federer). But I think it was pretty obvious that he didn't fight a lot against troicki, he was happy just to lose against him but it didn't happen. And then he could risk getting his shoulder worse before Tsonga. I currently don't think that Novak is that much interested in the win-loss stat. I think he's honestly interested in competing at a high level in London, he takes WTF very seriously. So he thought he'd need the time on court. What's wrong with that? Ok maybe you think it was shitty not to give Tsonga the chance to beat him while injured?

See, i think he is interested in the win/loss record b/c of the retirements and the walkovers, correct me if i'm wrong, but the walkover doesnt count against his reocrd, right? I just think that he either should of played or not played from the beginning...i get the bonus thing, i really do cause honestly, i would have done the same thing but then to do just a complete walkover w/o even trying...that's what i have a problem with...he didnt try...But see if he was injured with victor and played, why not with Tsonga?




In my opinion it was worse when he retired against Murray in Cincy. Thats the only time I genuinely disliked what he did. Yes, it was a bummer that he couldn't compete in equal conditions with Andy, but he should have played those 3 last games and give Andy the satisfaction of a victory without asterisks (or at least an official asterisk). I think that was potentially worse than withdrawing from Paris. So the conclusion is that maybe he shouldn't have played at all? and then risk not only losing the bonus but also the competition time he needs on court for getting ready for London. It's a lose-lose situation in my opinion. Not easy at all to make a decision. At the end of the day, the rules are the rules and he didn't break any.


Yeah, it was a lose/lose situation for him but i think he would have taken a lot less flack if he would have played the match with Tsonga like he did with victor and maybe if he got worse, then retired....Nope, he didnt break the rules, i just consider it unsportsmanlike...but i still like nole, i like his spirit and the fact that he makes tennis interesting to me again...like i said, it just left a sour taste in my mouth but in no way does it mean that i will stop cheering for him...just not when playing fed or alex, lol


Thanks for responding?

What do you think his level with be like at WTF? I'm going for my man fed and nole is next on my list to win....

Murray would be 3rd and then Nadal....

I'd say the suprise would be Berdych or Tsonga....


Cant see fish winning it being hurt and Ferrer, while he is a scrapper, he always seems to lose in bigger matches....


cat

Hey cat,

Well honestly Nole's level has dropped considerably since the US Open be it because of his shoulder, the back injury, the weeks off, whatever. But unless I see him playing again at his best level i don't see him winning in London. In my opinion, Federer excels indoors and the court speed in London suits his game, he was very superior last year to the rest. However this is 2011 so you never know. Murray looks good for the win too, but he's... well, Murray, unpredictable, capable of the best and the worst. And Nadal has been away for a long time and didn't look any good this fall, so who knows about him.

So in my opinion if Nole plays like he's been playing all year and his shoulder doesn't bother him, he's the favorite like at any tournament he's entered in 2011. But I don't think that will be the case. So most probably, Federer.

tripwires
11-16-2011, 02:22 PM
The last 2 times he faced Tsonga, Novak beat him emphatically. The last time Tsonga pulled out with an injury when Novak was winning. I don't remember the entire tennis community going down on Tsonga for faking an injury rather than taking a beating "like a man". He's a Top 10 player and he was given the benefit of the doubt. Shouldn't Novak be given one as well?

I think he should. :)

I definitely loathed what Tsonga did, especially because he beat Roger en route to that match and he freaking retired without even losing like a man. I mean, these retirements get pretty suspect after a while when a player does it too often (Nadal and Nole come to mind instantly). If Roger ever retires from a match one day, and I hope he never does cos this record of his is one of the many things I love about him, it wouldn't be as suspect as a retirement from the likes of Tsonga, Tipsy, Nadal, Nole. It's just the manner in which a player chooses to quit a match and how often he does it. If the circumstances surrounding your retirement looks suspicious, then be prepared for the onslaught of hate that's gonna come your way.

Fans don't buy tickets to matches to watch players retire. Fans don't sit in front of their TV for a couple of hours watching a match just to have one guy retire at the end of it. I can think of a million things I can do with that two hours, and if I'm not going to have a satisfactory conclusion to the match, I want to sympathise with the player that retired and not wonder if he's just being a wuss. I really hope players don't abuse it as much as some fans tend to think they do. But who really knows?

paseo
11-16-2011, 03:27 PM
I have not read the article, I really cant dwell on this issue. there was mil and a half on the line, for 2 days work... no man woman or child would say no to that. end of story.

I bet there are players outside the top 50 who would play in a bunny suit using a frying pan for that kind of money.

As for Djokovic, he's the #1 tennis player in the world. He should clean up his act. I really don't like the fact that the ambassador of our beloved sport is a rule bending-prone retiring-drama queen. It sheds a bad light that the world #1 doesn't hold the integrity of the sport in the highest regard. This punk kid better mature up next year if he is to stay where he is. Else he will get a lot more 'hates'.

thehotstuff66
11-16-2011, 03:59 PM
[QUOTE=Nole fan;11498120]Hey cat,

Well honestly Nole's level has dropped considerably since the US Open be it because of his shoulder, the back injury, the weeks off, whatever. But unless I see him playing again at his best level i don't see him winning in London. In my opinion, Federer excels indoors and the court speed in London suits his game, he was very superior last year to the rest. However this is 2011 so you never know. Murray looks good for the win too, but he's... well, Murray, unpredictable, capable of the best and the worst. And Nadal has been away for a long time and didn't look any good this fall, so who knows about him.


I think i am right there with you as far as his level but me thinks nole has a trick or two up his sleeve. I hope he can at least make it competitive.

As far as fed is concerned, would love for him to win again and break the record but of course, with fed, his serve needs to be working and then the rest of his game is effortless, his serve is all about his timing and if his timing is off, then his game is off.

I am quite interested to see all the matches this year. I'm like Fed, I never count Nadal out and he always seems to find an extra gear from somewhere.

Murray runs to hot and cold for me but it would be a nice feather in his cap if he could pull off the win.

Berdych is capable of winning too but again, he's an "on" or "off" player.

I always like Ferrer cause he runs everything down and tries very hard.

Even though i am american, i am not a fan of american tennis, lol but i like Fish so would be happy if he could pull off the upset as well.

and Tsonga, love his french flair and he has the game to win...I guess at this point, it's anyone trophy to win.

We will have to see who ends up where.

ps. just figured out the quote thing since i hardly post here. I am hoping for great matches and everyone being at that max potential cause then and only then would it be interesting and exciting WTF.

cat

Yolita
11-16-2011, 11:10 PM
I bet there are players outside the top 50 who would play in a bunny suit using a frying pan for that kind of money.

As for Djokovic, he's the #1 tennis player in the world. He should clean up his act. I really don't like the fact that the ambassador of our beloved sport is a rule bending-prone retiring-drama queen. It sheds a bad light that the world #1 doesn't hold the integrity of the sport in the highest regard. This punk kid better mature up next year if he is to stay where he is. Else he will get a lot more 'hates'.

I think the point, clearly argued in this article, is that Nole will get the "hate" whatever he does. It's part of the price he has to pay for dethroning the 2 top names in the sport for the last 7 years in one season.

I think he's a great champion because he showed the rest of the field that the Fedal duopoly could be broken if you don't enter the court waving a white flag, if you don't get intimidated by their "aura". Of course it wasn't easy and doing it took its toll on his body.

Whether he'll have another season like this one or not is anybody's guess, but he has already done the difficult job: showing everybody that it can be done. He changed the tennis scene forever. And tennis is better because of that.

tripwires
11-17-2011, 12:03 AM
I think the point, clearly argued in this article, is that Nole will get the "hate" whatever he does. It's part of the price he has to pay for dethroning the 2 top names in the sport for the last 7 years in one season.

I think he's a great champion because he showed the rest of the field that the Fedal duopoly could be broken if you don't enter the court waving a white flag, if you don't get intimidated by their "aura". Of course it wasn't easy and doing it took its toll on his body.

Whether he'll have another season like this one or not is anybody's guess, but he has already done the difficult job: showing everybody that it can be done. He changed the tennis scene forever. And tennis is better because of that.

I get your point generally and don't disagree (in general), but the bolded part is a bit over the top, don't you think?

Roadmap
11-17-2011, 12:22 AM
The tennis scene changed forever through surface homogenisation and then Djokovic stepped in and reaped the rewards for being in the right place at the right time :smoke:

tektonac
11-17-2011, 01:21 AM
I bet there are players outside the top 50 who would play in a bunny suit using a frying pan for that kind of money.

As for Djokovic, he's the #1 tennis player in the world. He should clean up his act. I really don't like the fact that the ambassador of our beloved sport is a rule bending-prone retiring-drama queen. It sheds a bad light that the world #1 doesn't hold the integrity of the sport in the highest regard. This punk kid better mature up next year if he is to stay where he is. Else he will get a lot more 'hates'.

u should better then switch to following a different sport as what you stated are just speculations. if you can provide the proof then you have every right to moralize. until then ....

Saberq
11-17-2011, 01:48 AM
The tennis scene changed forever through surface homogenisation and then Djokovic stepped in and reaped the rewards for being in the right place at the right time :smoke:

same can be said for Roger ...right place right time

fast_clay
11-17-2011, 01:48 AM
The tennis scene changed forever through surface homogenisation and then Djokovic stepped in and reaped the rewards for being in the right place at the right time :smoke:

Correct.

5 points.

Next Question.

Time Violation
11-17-2011, 02:07 AM
Actually right time to appear would be in a few years, after the present top 3 are either retired or near retirement... the present so-called youngsters are all huge mugs, so a right person could really sweep the field :)

fast_clay
11-17-2011, 02:10 AM
Actually right time to appear would be in a few years, after the present top 3 are either retired or near retirement... the present so-called youngsters are all huge mugs, so a right person could really sweep the field :)

Incorrect.

That is the time of Tomic and the NardDog.

-5 points.

Roadmap
11-17-2011, 02:15 AM
same can be said for Roger ...right place right time

Only if you are a fool who chooses to ignore the completely different dynamics of Federer and Djokovic's respective game styles. :) This same fool is probably of the belief that Federer would have struggled on fast grass. :cool:

paseo
11-17-2011, 02:29 AM
u should better then switch to following a different sport as what you stated are just speculations. if you can provide the proof then you have every right to moralize. until then ....

Proof of what?

Time Violation
11-17-2011, 02:53 AM
Incorrect.

That is the time of Tomic and the NardDog.

-5 points.

Tomic still has a lot to prove, he's not going to be a youngster forever.

tnosugar
11-17-2011, 03:22 AM
^^ hah. One more tournament then he can spend a full month in the egg. I've heard the egg is soundproof. Novak can't hear the haterz when inside. But its gonna cost like a million dollarz. So he had to go to Paris to pimp up the space-egg

Max, I think you nailed it :D

he might spend the 600k fine tuning his vocal chords so he can sing karaoke better

jeez, the general thread is getting worse each year. where are all those people who actually know something about tennis. I enjoyed reading their stuff...

Saberq
11-17-2011, 03:35 AM
Only if you are a fool who chooses to ignore the completely different dynamics of Federer and Djokovic's respective game styles. :) This same fool is probably of the belief that Federer would have struggled on fast grass. :cool:

I meant right place right time for Roger........and you know I am no fool :cool:

Yolita
11-17-2011, 03:52 AM
The tennis scene changed forever through surface homogenisation and then Djokovic stepped in and reaped the rewards for being in the right place at the right time :smoke:

Right time? Depends what you mean. I think these time is exciting because Rafa and Roger are playing, two of the best tennis players ever. But it's not easy for the rest of the field.

If Roger and Rafa hadn't been around, Novak would have ended #1 for 5 years in a row, starting in 2007.

This is not the easiest time to play tennis. :)

tektonac
11-17-2011, 03:53 AM
Proof of what?

not sure. perhaps that you can read what you write?

Yolita
11-17-2011, 03:55 AM
I get your point generally and don't disagree (in general), but the bolded part is a bit over the top, don't you think?
Yeah, a bit. But not a lot. ;)

paseo
11-17-2011, 04:00 AM
not sure. perhaps that you can read what you write?

Why are you having trouble to just say it to me?

Nole fan
11-17-2011, 12:28 PM
Incorrect.

That is the time of Tomic and the NardDog.

-5 points.

Why is being Tomic so overhyped here? :confused:

fast_clay
11-17-2011, 01:19 PM
Tomic still has a lot to prove, he's not going to be a youngster forever.

Why is being Tomic so overhyped here? :confused:

Unreasonable lines of thought and questioning.

-15 points.

Time Violation
11-17-2011, 01:32 PM
Why is being Tomic so overhyped here? :confused:

Because he's probably the best of the not-exactly-great generation. If some years later ATP becomes what WTA is today, maybe some will wish they didn't bash the present top 10 that hard. :p

Unreasonable lines of thought and questioning.

-15 points.

Sorry, one good Wimbledon performance doesn't mean he's new Boris Becker :)

kisen
11-17-2011, 02:24 PM
Why is being Tomic so overhyped here? :confused:

Australian citizenship.

Vida
11-17-2011, 03:47 PM
I really dont see any room for critique here, really. 2 days of work for almost two million bucks. shit. nice country.

Roadmap
11-17-2011, 06:51 PM
I meant right place right time for Roger........and you know I am no fool :cool:

I know that is what you meant. I don't think you have grasped what I meant ;)

Nole fan
11-17-2011, 09:16 PM
Australian citizenship.

Oh yeah, I get it now, Justin is aussie...