Nadal and Djokovic Retirements and Walkovers (Tipsarevic is Retirment King) [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Nadal and Djokovic Retirements and Walkovers (Tipsarevic is Retirment King)

Johnny Groove
11-11-2011, 04:57 PM
So I did some research, and here are the stats:

Nadal:

None in juniors

2-6 ret. Vs. Richie Gasquet in French Challenger 2003 R16
W/O to Irakli Labadze in Estoril QF 2004
3-6 ret. Vs. Dominik Hrbaty in Auckland 2005
6-3, 3-6 ret. Vs. Lleyton Hewitt in Queens 2006 QF
5-6 ret. Vs. Chris Guccione in Sydney 2007 R32
6-7, 1-4 ret. Vs Pico Monaco in Cincy R32 2007
1-6 ret. Vs Davydenko in Paris 2008 QF
3-6, 6-7, 0-3 ret. Vs. Andy Murray in Aussie Open 2010 QF

Only 7 retirements and only 1 walkover in his career. From 652 career ATP matches, 6 retirements, less than 1% retirement rate.


Djokovic:

Juniors:

6-2, 1-2 ret. Vs. Josh Goodall in a final in 2003

Pro:

7-6, 5-7, 0-2 ret. Mohammad Mamoun R32 In a Serbia F6 2003
6-4, 2-6, 2-3 ret. Vs. Guillermo Coria R64 at Roland Garros 2005
W/O to Galo Blanco at Stuttgart Qualies 2005
6-4, 4-6 ret. Vs. Yuriy Schukin in Metz Qualies 2005
4-6, 4-6, ret. Vs. Rafael Nadal Quarterfinals Roland Garros 2006
6-6 ret. Vs. Stan Wawrinka Finals of Umag 2006
6-3, 1-6, 1-4 ret. Vs. Rafael Nadal Semifinals of Wimbledon 2007
6-4, 6-3, 4-6, ret. Vs. Nikolay Davydenko Davis Cup 1st round 2008
3-6, 2-3 ret. Vs. Roger Federer Monte Carlo 2008 Semifinals
7-6, 4-6, 2-6, 1-2 ret. Vs. Andy Roddick Australian Open 2009 Quarterfinals
4-6 ret. Vs. Filip Krajinovic in Belgrade 2010 Quarterfinals
4-6, 0-3 ret. Vs. Murray in Cincy 2011 Finals
6-7, 0-3 ret. Vs, Juan Martin Del Potro in Davis Cup Semis 2011
W/O to Jo-Wilfried Tsonga in Paris 2011

So 12 retirements plus one in the juniors, 13, and 2 walkovers. From 500 career ATP matches, 11 retirements. Djokovic retires 2.2% of the time, well over double the rate of Nadal.

Bottom line, neither guy really retires that much, but Djokovic does more often.

juninhOH
11-11-2011, 05:00 PM
how does djokovic's retirement % compare to federer's?

Pirata.
11-11-2011, 05:05 PM
Nole needs a retirement at USO to complete the CGS.

Can you bring up some stats for Tipsy? iirc he has achieved a career golden slam, and i wouldn't be surprised to know he had retired in at least half the Maaters tournaments :help:

Egreen
11-11-2011, 05:07 PM
Nole needs a retirement at USO to complete the CGS.



:o

Naudio Spanlatine
11-11-2011, 05:07 PM
Nole:help: :tape: :facepalm:

he retires even when hes having a fantastic year:sobbing:

Johnny Groove
11-11-2011, 05:12 PM
how does djokovic's retirement % compare to federer's?

Federer only has one career retirement, and it was in the Juniors.

4-6 ret. Vs. Bob Borella in QF of a Belgian Junior Event in 1998.

And he also has the W/O to Blake in Paris 2008 QF.

Other than that, nothing from Federer in 983 ATP matches.

Time Violation
11-11-2011, 05:31 PM
Lol, 11 retirements from 500 ATP matches, and people whine like it was 200 at least or something like that. Thanks for compiling the stats, good work :)

Johnny Groove
11-11-2011, 05:38 PM
Nole needs a retirement at USO to complete the CGS.

Can you bring up some stats for Tipsy? iirc he has achieved a career golden slam, and i wouldn't be surprised to know he had retired in at least half the Maaters tournaments :help:

Tipsarevic has:

None in Juniors

Pros:

1-6, 0-3, ret. Vs. Mariano Delfino in R32 Budapest Challenger Qualies 2002
W/O to Ruben Ramirez Hidalgo in R16 Lugano Challenger 2002
0-3 ret. vs. Ignacio Gonzalez-King in Hungarian Challenger 2003 R16
4-6, 0-1 ret. vs. Marc Rosset in 2003 R16 Prague Challenger
6-3, 3-6, 3-4 ret. vs. Peter Luczak in Buenos Aires Qualies 2005
3-6, 0-2 ret. vs. George Bastl in Miami Qualies 2006
1-6, 2-4 ret. vs. Lleyton Hewitt in Adelaide 2007 RR
7-6, 6-4, 6-7, 0-6, 1-2 ret. to Dave Nalbandian in AO 2007 R128
0-2 ret. to Victor Hanescu in Umag 2007 R32
2-6, 3-6, 2-3 to Rafa Nadal in USO 2007 R64
W/O to Ljubo in Doha 2008 R16
5-6 ret. to Ilia Bozoljac in in R32 Belgrade Challenger 2008
4-6, 2-4 ret. to Gulbis in Barcelona 2008 R64
6-7, 3-2 ret. to O. Rochus in Olympics 2008 R32
2-6, 0-1 ret. to Sam Warburg at USO 2008 R128
6-7, 3-6 ret. to Andy Murray R32 French Open 2009
1-6, 2-4 ret. to Monfils in Metz QF 2009
2-3 ret. to De Bakker in Indian Wells R64 2010
2-2 ret. to Kohlschreiber in Canada R64 2010
W/O to Djokovic in Belgrade 2011 SF
6-7, 6-3, 3-5 ret. to Seppi in Eastbourne 2011 Finals
5-7, 1-3 ret. to Karlovic Wimbledon R128 2011
6-7, 7-6, 0-6, 0-3, ret. to Djokovic at USO 2011 QF
1-5 ret. to Flo Mayer in Basel R32 2011

21 retirements and 3 walkovers. In 348 career ATP matches, he has 17 retirements and 2 walkovers. A remarkable 4.88% retirement rate for Tipsy :facepalm:

He has retired:

Australian Open
Roland Garros
Wimbledon
USO x3 :facepalm:
Olympics
Indian Wells
Canada
Miami (Qualies)


So all 4 slams, the Olympics, and 3 of the Masters :lol:

Lol, 11 retirements from 500 ATP matches, and people whine like it was 200 at least or something like that. Thanks for compiling the stats, good work :)

Thanks :yeah:

xdrewitdajx
11-11-2011, 05:46 PM
5 retirements in one year, damn.

Fish has retired twice in a row, both times being ahead on the scoreboard, if I'm not mistaken. That's pretty cool.

nole_no1
11-11-2011, 05:48 PM
Some of you are really bored aren't you?

jmjhb
11-11-2011, 05:52 PM
Josh Goodall beat Djokovic? :lol:

Lopez
11-11-2011, 05:59 PM
It would make more sense to compare these numbers to the weighted average of the atp tour to give some actual meaning to them.

No top ATP player retires a lot by definition, since they wouldn't win that many matches unless they always retired in the semis or finals or something.

Mr. Oracle
11-11-2011, 06:09 PM
Was never impressed with Petkovic's (WTA) decision to play thru the pain. Struck me as a bit pretentious and silly. Considering the demands of the tour, why risk injury? Have to look out for number #1, no pun intended.

Nole fan
11-11-2011, 06:12 PM
So I did some research, and here are the stats:

Nadal:

None in juniors

2-6 ret. Vs. Richie Gasquet in French Challenger 2003 R16
W/O to Irakli Labadze in Estoril QF 2004
3-6 ret. Vs. Dominik Hrbaty in Auckland 2005
6-3, 3-6 ret. Vs. Lleyton Hewitt in Queens 2006 QF
5-6 ret. Vs. Chris Guccione in Sydney 2007 R32
6-7, 1-4 ret. Vs Pico Monaco in Cincy R32 2007
1-6 ret. Vs Davydenko in Paris 2008 QF
3-6, 6-7, 0-3 ret. Vs. Andy Murray in Aussie Open 2010 QF

Only 7 retirements and only 1 walkover in his career. From 652 career ATP matches, 6 retirements, less than 1% retirement rate.


Djokovic:

Juniors:

6-2, 1-2 ret. Vs. Josh Goodall in a final in 2003

Pro:

7-6, 5-7, 0-2 ret. Mohammad Mamoun R32 In a Serbia F6 2003
6-4, 2-6, 2-3 ret. Vs. Guillermo Coria R64 at Roland Garros 2005
W/O to Galo Blanco at Stuttgart Qualies 2005
6-4, 4-6 ret. Vs. Yuriy Schukin in Metz Qualies 2005
4-6, 4-6, ret. Vs. Rafael Nadal Quarterfinals Roland Garros 2006
6-6 ret. Vs. Stan Wawrinka Finals of Umag 2006
6-3, 1-6, 1-4 ret. Vs. Rafael Nadal Semifinals of Wimbledon 2007
6-4, 6-3, 4-6, ret. Vs. Nikolay Davydenko Davis Cup 1st round 2008
3-6, 2-3 ret. Vs. Roger Federer Monte Carlo 2008 Semifinals
7-6, 4-6, 2-6, 1-2 ret. Vs. Andy Roddick Australian Open 2009 Quarterfinals
4-6 ret. Vs. Filip Krajinovic in Belgrade 2010 Quarterfinals
4-6, 0-3 ret. Vs. Murray in Cincy 2011 Finals
6-7, 0-3 ret. Vs, Juan Martin Del Potro in Davis Cup Semis 2011
W/O to Jo-Wilfried Tsonga in Paris 2011

So 12 retirements plus one in the juniors, 13, and 2 walkovers. From 500 career ATP matches, 11 retirements. Djokovic retires 2.2% of the time, well over double the rate of Nadal.

Bottom line, neither guy really retires that much, but Djokovic does more often.

I see those 6 straight losses are still hurting you. Man up. :rolleyes:

Henry Chinaski
11-11-2011, 06:36 PM
Tennis’s Biggest Quitters - ATP retirements & withdrawals

September 13, 2011 by seancalvert

.
The withdrawal of Kevin Anderson due to food poisoning cost me at the Winston-Salem Open recently and doubtless many more punters parted with their cash in the US Open when the players were dropping like flies once again.

With retirements and withdrawals seemingly becoming commonplace on the ATP Tour these days, I take an in-depth look at who exactly the serial quitters are, so we know to avoid this bunch when placing a bet.

I also find the most reliable players, in the wake of Andrea Petkovic saying recently: ‘I’d rather die than retire’ after playing on with a bad injury.

King of the current crop of quitters by a reasonable distance is feeble Frenchman, Michael Llodra, whose retirement in Montreal recently was the 25th of his career and puts him on an incredible mark of 27 when you add his two career withdrawals.

At the age of 31, Llodra’s status as the ‘sick note’ of tennis may not last much longer, so he’ll no doubt be hoping that he can squeeze a couple more in to overtake the recently retired (pardon the pun) Nicolas Kiefer, who chalked up a score of 28.

Following hard on Llodra’s doubtless soon-to-be-injured heels is Filippo Volandri, who weighs in with a total of 26, including 24 retirements and two withdrawals, but he has none in 2011.

Considering that the Italian has had at least one per year since 2001, I would suggest that Volandri is due for an early trip back to the locker room some time soon.

He’ll probably be joined there by Nikolay Davydenko, whose mark of 25 includes six withdrawals and who also has at least one instance of a default each year since 2001, but none yet this year.

A dark horse for Llodra’s unwanted title is world number 151, Jan Hajek, who weighs in with an unhealthy 23 retirements and three withdrawals, putting him just one behind Llodra overall.

Some of these guys have been playing for a long time, but the young guns are just as bad, with 27-year-old Janko Tipsarevic notching up 21 defaults so far.

Even more worrying is 22-year-old Juan Martin Del Potro, who has managed 15 defaults already, with only three of those coming after his wrist injury at the 2009 US Open.

Mischa Zverev turned 24 a few days ago and has an even more worrying 21 retirements and a withdrawal to his name in less than 150 career matches.

Others to watch out for when considering a wager are:- Marcos Daniel (23 defaults), Xavier Malisse (19, including one for a tantrum), Paul-Henri Mathieu (19), Victor Hanescu (18), Jose Acasuso (17) and a glut of players on 16, which includes Philipp Kohlschreiber, Richard Gasquet, Steve Darcis, Rob Kendrick and Rainer Schuettler.

There is also a group of players to keep an eye on that have between 12 and 15 defaults between them, which includes: Bogomolov, Istomin, Tursunov, Mayer, Stepanek, Roddick, Youzhny, Tsonga, Monfils, and Gonzalez.

Now for the good news. It’s quite well known that Roger Federer has never retired from a tour level match and only once withdrawn in almost 1000 career matches, but who knew about the following players?

Sam Querrey has retired just once - and that was in a Challenger back in 2006. He seems to be injured a lot, but has the good grace not to enter if he’s feeling less than 100 percent.

James Blake has the same great record as Federer (ironically, as Fed’s only withdrawal was against Blake) but in 568 matches.
Arnaud Clement has a single retirement and a single withdrawal from 633 matches, while Frederico Gil has one retirement (and why did he bother when he was 6-0, 6-0, 2-0 down to David Ferrer in Melbourne last year).

And there are good signs from Marin Cilic, whose only default in 284 matches came this year when withdrawing against Andy Murray at Queen’s.

There are a handful of players with zero blots on their copybook, but kudos goes to Alejandro Falla, whose 152 career matches have all been free of the scourge of the tennis punter - the retirement.

(Statistics correct up until 28th August 2011)

http://www.thesportsjournalist.co.uk/2011/09/13/tenniss-biggest-quitters-atp-retirements-withdrawals/

Slice Winner
11-11-2011, 06:50 PM
"the young guns are just as bad, with 27-year-old Janko Tipsarevic notching up 21 defaults so far."
>young guns
>27-year-old

Start da Game
11-11-2011, 07:05 PM
the so called "reasonable nadal fan" showing his talent again......op soon to overtake the "fedal" duo, make book on it......

Hian-GOAT
11-11-2011, 07:08 PM
What a sportmanship from Tipsarevic :lol: Most disgusting player EVER :)

Start da Game
11-11-2011, 07:25 PM
so what? he's not being handed stefan edberg sportsmanship award after stefan edberg sportsmanship award......he is certainly not an icon of the sport......so no need to be so harsh on tipsarevic......players have their own reasons to withdraw.......i certainly appreciate the effort he puts in despite a major challenge with his eyesight......

tipsarevic when in full flow, is one of the very best entertainers on the tour with clean aggressive hitting......

Naudio Spanlatine
11-11-2011, 07:29 PM
tipsy is such an embarassment to tennis is not even funny, how does he have fans, like really how?:shrug: :help: :rolleyes: :facepalm:

xdrewitdajx
11-11-2011, 07:30 PM
how does Del Potro have fans, then, by that logic?

Start da Game
11-11-2011, 07:35 PM
tipsy is such an embarassment to tennis is not even funny, how does he have fans, like really how?:shrug: :help: :rolleyes: :facepalm:

there can be unknown reasons sometimes, dee......otherwise nobody retires like that despite knowing the consequences......he has severe eyesight problem and can't play without glasses......i will just appreciate him for overcoming that and ignore his retirements even if they are a few too many......

abraxas21
11-11-2011, 07:40 PM
the main problem with nadal and djokovic isn't about their retirements or their WO. It is rather with the fact that they both fake injuries in order gain confidence and unfocus their opponents.

pesto
11-11-2011, 07:48 PM
Thanks for the stats.

I think all eyes are on the top guys, so it is more prominent when they retire, and maybe Djoko is a bit more liable to it than the other top players, but 2.2% doesn't sound too heinous, actually.

Anyone got the stats for Murray?

TF does a yearly retirement watch thread. Maybe be worth doing something similar here in 2012.

Start da Game
11-11-2011, 07:56 PM
the main problem with nadal and murray isn't about their retirements or their WO. It is rather with the fact that they both fake injuries in order gain confidence and unfocus their opponents.

the main problem with federina is not about swearing at the umpires for his own inability to use challenge system or whining at his opponents, it is rather with the fact that he accepted stefan edberg sportsmanship award after stefan edberg sportsmanship award for six years like a sage......

pesto
11-11-2011, 08:07 PM
I looked up Murray's matches on the ATP site.

I found 2 WOs and a retirement from ATP matches, plus two from Challengers.

ATP
WO v Gasquet, 2009 Dubai Q
WO v Roddick, 2008 Queens Q
Ret 5-1 v Volandri, 2007 Hamburg R64

If I haven't missed any that's 3/429 ATP & GS matches, so 0.7% WO or retirement.

Challengers:
Ret 5-7, 0-1 Malisse 2005 Mons Challenger Q
Ret 2-3 v Wang 2004 Surbiton Challenger R32

Noleta
11-11-2011, 08:19 PM
So I did some research, and here are the stats:

Nadal:

None in juniors

2-6 ret. Vs. Richie Gasquet in French Challenger 2003 R16
W/O to Irakli Labadze in Estoril QF 2004
3-6 ret. Vs. Dominik Hrbaty in Auckland 2005
6-3, 3-6 ret. Vs. Lleyton Hewitt in Queens 2006 QF
5-6 ret. Vs. Chris Guccione in Sydney 2007 R32
6-7, 1-4 ret. Vs Pico Monaco in Cincy R32 2007
1-6 ret. Vs Davydenko in Paris 2008 QF
3-6, 6-7, 0-3 ret. Vs. Andy Murray in Aussie Open 2010 QF

Only 7 retirements and only 1 walkover in his career. From 652 career ATP matches, 6 retirements, less than 1% retirement rate.


Djokovic:

Juniors:

6-2, 1-2 ret. Vs. Josh Goodall in a final in 2003

Pro:

7-6, 5-7, 0-2 ret. Mohammad Mamoun R32 In a Serbia F6 2003
6-4, 2-6, 2-3 ret. Vs. Guillermo Coria R64 at Roland Garros 2005
W/O to Galo Blanco at Stuttgart Qualies 2005
6-4, 4-6 ret. Vs. Yuriy Schukin in Metz Qualies 2005
4-6, 4-6, ret. Vs. Rafael Nadal Quarterfinals Roland Garros 2006
6-6 ret. Vs. Stan Wawrinka Finals of Umag 2006
6-3, 1-6, 1-4 ret. Vs. Rafael Nadal Semifinals of Wimbledon 2007
6-4, 6-3, 4-6, ret. Vs. Nikolay Davydenko Davis Cup 1st round 2008
3-6, 2-3 ret. Vs. Roger Federer Monte Carlo 2008 Semifinals
7-6, 4-6, 2-6, 1-2 ret. Vs. Andy Roddick Australian Open 2009 Quarterfinals
4-6 ret. Vs. Filip Krajinovic in Belgrade 2010 Quarterfinals
4-6, 0-3 ret. Vs. Murray in Cincy 2011 Finals
6-7, 0-3 ret. Vs, Juan Martin Del Potro in Davis Cup Semis 2011
W/O to Jo-Wilfried Tsonga in Paris 2011

So 12 retirements plus one in the juniors, 13, and 2 walkovers. From 500 career ATP matches, 11 retirements. Djokovic retires 2.2% of the time, well over double the rate of Nadal.

Bottom line, neither guy really retires that much, but Djokovic does more often.

Thanks for this:yeah:

13,plus 2 W/O isn't that catastrophic imo,certainly for someone like Novak,who has had troubles with his physique.

stewietennis
11-11-2011, 09:56 PM
the main problem with nadal and djokovic isn't about their retirements or their WO. It is rather with the fact that they both fake injuries in order gain confidence and unfocus their opponents.

:confused:I don't think this thread is stating their retirements are a problem, in fact, I believe it's otherwise by the stats shown.

Time Violation
11-11-2011, 10:03 PM
the main problem with nadal and djokovic isn't about their retirements or their WO. It is rather with the fact that they both fake injuries in order gain confidence and unfocus their opponents.

What a twisted logic. :) What confidence can one gain from pretending to be injured?

abraxas21
11-11-2011, 10:08 PM
What a twisted logic. :) What confidence can one gain from pretending to be injured?

confidence gained from regrouping one's energies both physically and mentally.
confidence gained from receiving illegal on-court coaching while receiving medical treatment (nadal's case)
confidence gained from knowing that the opponent might unfocus as he might lose his concentration in the match

abraxas21
11-11-2011, 10:10 PM
:confused:I don't think this thread is stating their retirements are a problem, in fact, I believe it's otherwise by the stats shown.

i havent said they are either :confused:

Nole fan
11-11-2011, 10:20 PM
confidence gained from regrouping one's energies both physically and mentally.
confidence gained from receiving illegal on-court coaching while receiving medical treatment (nadal's case)
confidence gained from knowing that the opponent might unfocus as he might lose his concentration in the match

As I've said many times if a player unfocus or loses concentration because his opponent is receiving a perfectly legal medical treatment then he deserves to lose the match anyway. Don't use that as an excuse. :rolleyes:

Johnny Groove
11-11-2011, 10:33 PM
I see those 6 straight losses are still hurting you. Man up. :rolleyes:

Bitch please, this ain't about that.

http://www.thesportsjournalist.co.uk/2011/09/13/tenniss-biggest-quitters-atp-retirements-withdrawals/

Good work as usual, Chinaski :hatoff:

the so called "reasonable nadal fan" showing his talent again......op soon to overtake the "fedal" duo, make book on it......

Mug.

abraxas21
11-11-2011, 10:37 PM
As I've said many times if a player unfocus or loses concentration because his opponent is receiving a perfectly legal medical treatment then he deserves to lose the match anyway. Don't use that as an excuse. :rolleyes:

there are ideas people like to call sportsmanship and fair play but those 2 dont seem to care at all

Nole fan
11-11-2011, 11:04 PM
there are ideas people like to call sportsmanship and fair play but those 2 dont seem to care at all

Like you care at all. You're not exactly a rolemodel here. :lol:

rocketassist
11-12-2011, 03:24 AM
Djoker losing to Josh Goodall :lol:

SDG still thinks Rafatards/Noletrolls are some form of alliance against 'Federina' :rolls:

Kat_YYZ
11-12-2011, 04:31 AM
I think a bigger problem is withdrawals, like what happened today with Novak. He has notched 2 wins but doesn't get a loss on his record :confused:

So a player gets to pad his wins but not incur a defeat... in a tournament he didn't win. Somehow that doesn't feel right.

Sunset of Age
11-12-2011, 05:07 AM
the so called "reasonable nadal fan" showing his talent again......op soon to overtake the "fedal" duo, make book on it......

Talking about Nat and me? Wow, we'd really welcome Johnny among our ranks, yay man! :worship:

FEDAL RULES! :D :D :D

http://www.tennisnow.com/images/nadal-federer.gif

:hearts: :inlove: :hearts: :inlove: :hearts: :inlove: :hearts: :inlove: :hearts: :inlove: :hearts: :inlove: :hearts: :inlove:

Topspindoctor
11-12-2011, 05:29 AM
I think a bigger problem is withdrawals, like what happened today with Novak. He has notched 2 wins but doesn't get a loss on his record :confused:

So a player gets to pad his wins but not incur a defeat... in a tournament he didn't win. Somehow that doesn't feel right.

He got a walkover in RG :shrug:

He'd have one more win and got nothing. Consider the walkover against Tsonga "making it even"

MIMIC
11-12-2011, 05:39 AM
I think a bigger problem is withdrawals, like what happened today with Novak. He has notched 2 wins but doesn't get a loss on his record :confused:

So a player gets to pad his wins but not incur a defeat... in a tournament he didn't win. Somehow that doesn't feel right.

Well let's go back in time and those turn those walkovers into proper losses. Starting with the guy in your avatar.

Funny how walkovers have magically just now turned into a big deal.

And like it was just now mentioned, Novak himself received a walkover back at the French. Why aren't you leading the charge for the ATP to award Fognini a proper loss and Novak a proper win? Huh?

Naudio Spanlatine
11-12-2011, 05:44 AM
Talking about Nat and me? Wow, we'd really welcome Johnny among our ranks, yay man! :worship:

FEDAL RULES! :D :D :D

http://www.tennisnow.com/images/nadal-federer.gif

:hearts: :inlove: :hearts: :inlove: :hearts: :inlove: :hearts: :inlove: :hearts: :inlove: :hearts: :inlove: :hearts: :inlove:

yes, as much as i dont like fed, i do love the rivalry:inlove:

Kat_YYZ
11-12-2011, 05:59 AM
Well let's go back in time and those turn those walkovers into proper losses. Starting with the guy in your avatar.

Funny how walkovers have magically just now turned into a big deal.

And like it was just now mentioned, Novak himself received a walkover back at the French. Why aren't you leading the charge for the ATP to award Fognini a proper loss and Novak a proper win? Huh?

Ummm, it wasn't a Novak-bashing post :rolleyes: It's a general statement on walkovers and how they come up in win/loss. I realize it's the same for everyone.

Not everyone here feels compelled to participate in the Tard Wars in every single post.

Yolita
11-12-2011, 06:12 AM
I think a bigger problem is withdrawals, like what happened today with Novak. He has notched 2 wins but doesn't get a loss on his record :confused:

So a player gets to pad his wins but not incur a defeat... in a tournament he didn't win. Somehow that doesn't feel right.

What do you mean "pad" his wins? He won two matches and those wins count, because he WON the matches.

He doesn't "pad" his wins if the other player retires! Did Novak get a win when Fognini retired during the French Open? No. And everybody knew he would have crushed Fognini and increased his streak. But they didn't play, so he didn't count that as a win.

Why should he get a loss if he didn't play? :confused:

Yolita
11-12-2011, 06:15 AM
Well let's go back in time and those turn those walkovers into proper losses. Starting with the guy in your avatar.

Funny how walkovers have magically just now turned into a big deal.

And like it was just now mentioned, Novak himself received a walkover back at the French. Why aren't you leading the charge for the ATP to award Fognini a proper loss and Novak a proper win? Huh?

I answered KAT before reading your post! Sorry for being repetitive. :)

Yolita
11-12-2011, 06:18 AM
Ummm, it wasn't a Novak-bashing post :rolleyes: It's a general statement on walkovers and how they come up in win/loss. I realize it's the same for everyone.

Not everyone here feels compelled to participate in the Tard Wars in every single post.

Of course it wasn't, you just used it as an example. And the word "pad" as well, which is so neutral. :haha:

Sri
11-12-2011, 06:47 AM
I think a bigger problem is withdrawals, like what happened today with Novak. He has notched 2 wins but doesn't get a loss on his record :confused:

So a player gets to pad his wins but not incur a defeat... in a tournament he didn't win. Somehow that doesn't feel right.

Trust Nole to find new ways to cheat: :worship:

Kat_YYZ
11-12-2011, 06:51 AM
Of course it wasn't, you just used it as an example. And the word "pad" as well, which is so neutral. :haha:

Well, I didn't want to make a separate thread just for my observation :rolleyes:. I realize the title and original focus of this thread set a particular tone, but it's not my doing.

I guess I was imagining a scenario where a player (probably ranked top 15 or so) conspires to compile an unbeaten streak by playing the early rounds, beating the low-ranked opponents he "should" beat, and withdrawing at the first sign of a possible contender that could beat him. Assuming he doesn't incur a "shock loss" in an early round, in 6 months he could have like 28 wins and no losses (and no titles! :lol:). It's preposterous, but technically possible.

venky91
11-12-2011, 07:04 AM
If you withdraw or retire, it should count as a loss.

Likewise, if someone withdraws or retires against you, it should count as a win for you.

Simple and fair.

In fact, it blows my mind that it's not like this, this is so elementary. Every other sport does it fair.

xdrewitdajx
11-12-2011, 09:51 AM
I think a bigger problem is withdrawals, like what happened today with Novak. He has notched 2 wins but doesn't get a loss on his record :confused:

So a player gets to pad his wins but not incur a defeat... in a tournament he didn't win. Somehow that doesn't feel right.

I agree, it seems weird to be able to go undefeated in a season (in theory) without winning a single title, lol. I think a WO should count as a loss.

rickcastle
11-12-2011, 10:10 AM
I guess I was imagining a scenario where a player (probably ranked top 15 or so) conspires to compile an unbeaten streak by playing the early rounds, beating the low-ranked opponents he "should" beat, and withdrawing at the first sign of a possible contender that could beat him. Assuming he doesn't incur a "shock loss" in an early round, in 6 months he could have like 28 wins and no losses (and no titles! :lol:). It's preposterous, but technically possible.


Federer would've had an insane winning streak in 2006 if he just withdrew every time he had to meet Nadal :lol: The walkover rule is pretty silly, it should count both as a win or loss.

Ultravox
11-12-2011, 10:38 AM
I guess I was imagining a scenario where a player (probably ranked top 15 or so) conspires to compile an unbeaten streak by playing the early rounds, beating the low-ranked opponents he "should" beat, and withdrawing at the first sign of a possible contender that could beat him. Assuming he doesn't incur a "shock loss" in an early round, in 6 months he could have like 28 wins and no losses (and no titles! :lol:). It's preposterous, but technically possible.

This is utter crap. Players play for money and not for unbeaten streaks.It is certain that your player would win some of these "withdraw" matches and that means hundreds of thousands of dollars. Is it better to win 28 games and earn for example 100 000 dollars or win twenty games and lose 8 to earn 600 000
dollars?

Mae
11-12-2011, 11:30 AM
This is an interesting thread that has really has some time and work put into it. I guess we can now call Roger the "Iron Man" of tennis!

Mae
11-12-2011, 11:33 AM
If you withdraw or retire, it should count as a loss.

Likewise, if someone withdraws or retires against you, it should count as a win for you.

Simple and fair.

In fact, it blows my mind that it's not like this, this is so elementary. Every other sport does it fair.

I agree with you on this one.

Black Adam
11-12-2011, 11:53 AM
How many career Medical time-outs?

Sri
11-12-2011, 12:12 PM
How many career Medical time-outs?
How many medical timeouts when behind in the scoreline?

Singularity
11-12-2011, 01:33 PM
the main problem with federina is not about swearing at the umpires for his own inability to use challenge system or whining at his opponents, it is rather with the fact that he accepted stefan edberg sportsmanship award after stefan edberg sportsmanship award for six years like a sage......
The players are the ones who actually voted for him, so you maybe you should take issue with them instead.

dj_mercury
11-12-2011, 03:00 PM
the main problem with nadal and djokovic isn't about their retirements or their WO. It is rather with the fact that they both fake injuries in order gain confidence and unfocus their opponents.

Medical time-outs should certainly be included in the equation. Especially the win-loss ratio after having asked for one, wouldn't be surprised to see a funny outcome from such a research.

Nole fan
11-12-2011, 03:07 PM
Well let's go back in time and those turn those walkovers into proper losses. Starting with the guy in your avatar.

Funny how walkovers have magically just now turned into a big deal.

And like it was just now mentioned, Novak himself received a walkover back at the French. Why aren't you leading the charge for the ATP to award Fognini a proper loss and Novak a proper win? Huh?

Yeah, I've never seen so many pages discussing a walkover. But because it's Nole and his amazing season it all makes sense. :lol:

Sri
11-12-2011, 03:09 PM
Yeah, I've never seen so many pages discussing a walkover. But because it's Nole and his amazing season it all makes sense. :lol:
I think its more of a response to the silly "Nole is GOAT" and "2011 is the best season of all time" nonsense. :o

Nole fan
11-12-2011, 03:26 PM
I think its more of a response to the silly "Nole is GOAT" and "2011 is the best season of all time" nonsense. :o

I'll tell you what and I hope you get it into your thick skulls (I much doubt it).
Nobody ever said Nole is the Goat because it's quite obvious really, he's still 24 and has a long road to go. :shrug:
That discussion only concerns Fedtards because it's the only thing that make them happy now that Federer is probably going to retire soon.
And who started all those comparing seasons threads? it was never a nole fan, i can assure you. But of course fedtards have always to compare things because frankly they can't talk about anything else in 2011 when their man has won shit. :bigwave:

Sri
11-12-2011, 03:29 PM
I'll tell you what and I hope you get it into your thick skulls (I much doubt it).
Nobody ever said Nole is the Goat because it's quite obvious really, he's still 24 and has a long road to go. :shrug:
That discussion only concerns Fedtards because it's the only thing that make them happy now that Federer is probably going to retire soon.
And who started all those comparing seasons threads? it was never a nole fan, i can assure you. But of course fedtards have always to compare things because frankly they can't talk about anything else in 2011 when their man has won shit. :bigwave:
Aww don't get so touchy. Personal insults make you sound hurt and desperate

And yes he does have a long road ahead. I hope he won't retire whenever there's a slight bump on the road.

Ben.
11-12-2011, 03:34 PM
Nole Fan you are now completely insufferable, surpassing even the object of your obsessive affection.

Nole fan
11-12-2011, 03:35 PM
Nole Fan you are now completely insufferable, surpassing even the object of your obsessive affection.

Read my sig. :bigwave:

Nole fan
11-12-2011, 03:40 PM
Aww don't get so touchy. Personal insults make you sound hurt and desperate

And yes he does have a long road ahead. I hope he won't retire whenever there's a slight bump on the road.

Personal insults? where? :scratch:
Isn't the other way around more likely? that you lot sound hurt and desperate? why I'd be hurt and desperate? Nole has won everything there is to win this season that matters. I couldn't be happier if I tried. Your logic is so :stupid:

Kat_YYZ
11-12-2011, 03:56 PM
If you withdraw or retire, it should count as a loss.

Likewise, if someone withdraws or retires against you, it should count as a win for you.

Simple and fair.

In fact, it blows my mind that it's not like this, this is so elementary. Every other sport does it fair.

I kind of think a withdrawal should count as a loss in your win/loss column, but not in your head-to-head. I know that's weird and would screw up the stats (cause things wouldn't add up), but saying one guy has a winning H2H against another when in fact they've never stood on the same court together seems wrong, too.

It would be an interesting debate on its own merits... but we can't have interesting debates on MTF because of Tard Wars.

Federer would've had an insane winning streak in 2006 if he just withdrew every time he had to meet Nadal :lol: The walkover rule is pretty silly, it should count both as a win or loss.
:lol: so true... and I'm not one of those who think Fed would be a better player if he had lost more matches, i.e., lost in the semi so as not to meet Nadal at RG/MonteCarlo/Rome, so therefore he would have a better H2H with Nadal.

Naudio Spanlatine
11-12-2011, 04:00 PM
wait they dont count w/o as a loss, that jus :bs: of them to not count that as a loss:rolleyes:

Ben.
11-12-2011, 04:00 PM
Read my sig. :bigwave:

It is what prompted me to post, its obnoxiousness is staggering. I suppose it would be asking too much to hope for you to tone it down.

jmjhb
11-12-2011, 04:02 PM
Nole Fan you are now completely insufferable, surpassing even the object of your obsessive affection.

A rabid fangirl will devote themselves to a particular brand, or subject and became mentally detached from the real world for it.

Rabid fangirls will fanatically defend said affection and religiously persecute anyone at the end, or middle of the spectrum between their affection and the "considered" opposite.

To be labeled a rabid fangirl means that you, or the labeled party, is fanatical in their complete obsession.

DrJules
11-12-2011, 04:13 PM
On a consistency point at the start of the year did the Djokovic fans consider Borg's long winning streak which included 1 or 2 w/o's a genuine or not.

Actually w/o are NOT considered to be losses.

Yolita
11-12-2011, 04:24 PM
If you withdraw or retire, it should count as a loss.

Likewise, if someone withdraws or retires against you, it should count as a win for you.

Simple and fair.

In fact, it blows my mind that it's not like this, this is so elementary. Every other sport does it fair.

It IS like this in tennis. I don't understand why you think that in tennis it's not like this. :confused:

If you withdraw or retire, it counts as a loss in the sense that you're out of the tournament and you get the same points you would get with a loss. If somebody withdraws or retires against you, it counts as a win in the sense that you get the points you would have got had you won and also you get your pass to the next round or the title.

As you say, it's elementary and that's the way it works in all sports, including tennis. Even a Grand Slam title you can get by default. :)

But if you want to do statistics, then you should be very careful. You shouldn't count retirements and withdrawls as wins or losses because they are not. You have to count them as retirements or withdrawals. A statistical analysis has to be as accurate as possible.

Believe me, I was very upset, as we Nole fans all were, when Fognini gave Novak a W/O in Roland Garros. We knew that Novak would have won that match. He would have beaten Johnny Mac's straight win record if he had won. But it didn't count as a win because no match was played. It was a terrible thing for Fabio to do, he knew it and was grinning at the presser, a big, Cheshire-cat smile. But nobody, as far as I remember, suggested that it should count as a win for Novak and that Johnny Mac's record had been broken. Novak got his pass to the semis and his points. It was treated like a win, but it wasn't a win. That's fair. :)

arm
11-12-2011, 04:25 PM
On a consistency point at the start of the year did the Djokovic fans consider Borg's long winning streak which included 1 or 2 w/o's a genuine or not.

Actually w/o are NOT considered to be losses.

It's not about the streak at all for some of us. Or the best season ever. I couldn't care less about that or all the other records, etc. some people already consider it the best ever, some don't. It's subjective. what matters is that people realize he had an amazing season regardless of this last couple of months.

For me all that matters right now is this: 3 GS, beating rafa in slams, and dominating everyone on tour. After 2009 and 2010... I would have been happy with half of this.

People should stop with all the comparisons and star caring less about all the records and numbers.

Yolita
11-12-2011, 04:35 PM
Where were all the people suggesting that walkovers count as win/loss when Fabio Fognini blatantly gave Novak a walkover in Roland Garros. Can anybody post a link to a comment made by them in those days suggesting that Nole should be credited with a win, in spite of being a walkover? I'm waiting. :)

arm
11-12-2011, 04:38 PM
Where were all the people suggesting that walkovers count as win/loss when Fabio Fognini blatantly gave Novak a walkover in Roland Garros. Can anybody post a link to a comment made by them in those days suggesting that Nole should be credited with a win, in spite of being a walkover? I'm waiting. :)

:lol: good one!

star
11-12-2011, 05:24 PM
http://www.thesportsjournalist.co.uk/2011/09/13/tenniss-biggest-quitters-atp-retirements-withdrawals/

Excellent.

Thanks for posting that article. It seems some of the MTF “darlings” are at the top of that list. :lol:

Yolita
11-12-2011, 06:35 PM
how does djokovic's retirement % compare to federer's?

Federer has one of the lowest retirement %. But Djokovic's, at about 2%, is not too high.

Milos Raonic, for instance, has retired in 4 out of 61 total matches played. That's 6.5%, almost 3 times as high as Novak's. But you wouldn't know it, would you? Nobody's talking about it. :)

If he had played 300+ matches, 4 retirements wouldn't be much,but out of 61, it's a huge %. That's why one has to talk about percentage of retirements, not total number of retirements.

rickcastle
11-12-2011, 06:58 PM
I am curious about MTO statistics too, and how many of these MTO's were taken when they were behind in the scoreline.

v-money
11-12-2011, 07:33 PM
http://www.thesportsjournalist.co.uk/2011/09/13/tenniss-biggest-quitters-atp-retirements-withdrawals/

For some reason my statistics show only 18 retirements for Zverev. One retirements in futures, 7 in challengers and 10 on the ATP, which means only 10 of those retirements are relevant to the 150 ATP matches he's played (has over 500 matches at all levels).

v-money
11-12-2011, 07:36 PM
Read my sig. :bigwave:

You're sig is very ironic and just a case of lying to oneself. If you didn't give a fuck you wouldn't post a hundred time in every thread to defend Nole.

rickcastle
11-12-2011, 07:39 PM
You're sig is very ironic and just a case of lying to oneself. If you didn't give a fuck you wouldn't post a hundred time in every thread to defend Nole.

:yeah:

Kat_YYZ
11-12-2011, 07:42 PM
You're sig is very ironic and just a case of lying to oneself. If you didn't give a fuck you wouldn't post a hundred time in every thread to defend Nole.

v-money's right :shrug: Psychology 101. You should have a positive message about your player, rather than a negative message directed at his detractors. You're giving them attention while claiming to ignore them.

venky91
11-12-2011, 07:48 PM
I kind of think a withdrawal should count as a loss in your win/loss column, but not in your head-to-head. I know that's weird and would screw up the stats (cause things wouldn't add up), but saying one guy has a winning H2H against another when in fact they've never stood on the same court together seems wrong, too.

Interesting. But then, we'd have people complaining that so and so withdrew so that their H2H record would not be tainted, so I think the best case scenario is for it to show up on the H2H.

You're sig is very ironic and just a case of lying to oneself. If you didn't give a fuck you wouldn't post a hundred time in every thread to defend Nole.

BOOM

heya
11-12-2011, 09:36 PM
it must be why there were few fed fans posting congratulations when djoker beat fed. yet, federer fanatics posted numerous hate messages against non-federer fans for years.
bitter AS FEDERER'S ironic CRIES.

heya
11-12-2011, 09:51 PM
It IS like this in tennis. I don't understand why you think that in tennis it's not like this. :confused:

If you withdraw or retire, it counts as a loss in the sense that you're out of the tournament and you get the same points you would get with a loss. If somebody withdraws or retires against you, it counts as a win in the sense that you get the points you would have got had you won and also you get your pass to the next round or the title.

As you say, it's elementary and that's the way it works in all sports, including tennis. Even a Grand Slam title you can get by default. :)

But if you want to do statistics, then you should be very careful. You shouldn't count retirements and withdrawls as wins or losses because they are not. You have to count them as retirements or withdrawals. A statistical analysis has to be as accurate as possible.

Believe me, I was very upset, as we Nole fans all were, when Fognini gave Novak a W/O in Roland Garros. We knew that Novak would have won that match. He would have beaten Johnny Mac's straight win record if he had won. But it didn't count as a win because no match was played. It was a terrible thing for Fabio to do, he knew it and was grinning at the presser, a big, Cheshire-cat smile. But nobody, as far as I remember, suggested that it should count as a win for Novak and that Johnny Mac's record had been broken. Novak got his pass to the semis and his points. It was treated like a win, but it wasn't a win. That's fair. :)

johnny mc's a fedtroll. fed and john mcenroe know that fognini was too embarrassed to face djoker's woodshed demolition.
whether fognini had cancelled the french open QF or not, federina & john mcenroe admitted that djoker is better than the clowns from the weak era (2004-2006).
druggie agassi needed cortisone injections in his hip to trouble a 21-24 year old federer. lmao

Nole fan
11-12-2011, 09:52 PM
v-money's right :shrug: Psychology 101. You should have a positive message about your player, rather than a negative message directed at his detractors. You're giving them attention while claiming to ignore them.

I'm not saying I ignore them. They're the reason I'm here, they provide me with very good laughs and entertainment. That doesn't mean that I care about what they have to say and the little mental games they retort to. But clearly Nole is enjoying his success and doesn't give a fuck to what his haters think so that's what my sig refers to.